← The Jim Acosta Show
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It's Friday tgif, but it's another day that ends in Y as Trump is still trying to cover up Epstein gate. He sent his former defense attorney Todd Blanch, who is now a senior Justice Department official, if you can believe that, down to Florida to speak with Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein's ex girlfriend, who is now serving a 20 year sentence for sex trafficking. Joining me today to talk about this, the great Katie Fang, who is jotting things down as we speak. You know, we're going to get a whole legal brief here, Katie. I mean, there's so many different places to start, but this one has really been sort of, you know, grinding my gears a little bit. This, this notion that Todd Blanche is Trump's former defense attorney. He's, I mean, it's already an outrage that he's a senior Department of Justice official, but he gets dispatched down to Tallahassee to talk to Ghislaine Maxwell, who is behind bars. And we, it just feels like the fix is in. And we were hearing some things today coming out making it sound like more and more the fix is in. Is the fix in.
- [01:02]
Katie Fang
According to David Marcus, the lawyer for Ghislaine Maxwell, post day two meeting between Todd Blanche and his client, Marcus says, we haven't spoken to anyone yet regarding a pardon, but we hope that Donald Trump exercises his pardon power for good. You know, if he's a client. Yeah, for good. Right. We've seen where, that, we've seen where the pardon goes with Donald Trump. If that's the case, then obviously the, the, either the pitch will be officially formally made. I'm assuming it's already happened, Al, although I do believe David, if he says he hasn't spoken to anybody about the pardon yet, but I think the pitch will be officially made post this meeting between Blanche and Maxwell. And listen, I will, I always agree with what you say, but I'll make one small amendment to what you said. You said Tom Blanche is his former personal lawyer. He's not a former personal lawyer. He's still working as Trump's personal lawyer.
- [01:55]
Jim Acosta
You're so right.
- [01:56]
Katie Fang
Former going on here, but as a former prosecutor. And I will use former there. As a former prosecutor. I am disgusted by what is happening here. I do not begrudge Judge David Marcus any of his ability to be an advocate for his client. He's a criminal defense lawyer, has been seeking, you know, the best for his client. But I will say a jury, a grand jury, indicted Ghislaine Maxwell for certain. Crimes and offenses. A jury of her peers during a jury trial found her guilty of specific offenses. And to be clear, she was found guilty of five separate counts in federal court. The three that she got sentenced on to 20 federal, 20 years in federal prison were the ones that got her sentence. The other two were dropped. There's a lot of chatter about her having been convicted of perjury. She was not convicted of perjury. I want to make sure the record is clear. Those charges were actually dropped by the federal prosecutors in exchange for what happened with her sentencing. But I also want to make it clear, though, I also read the 55 page sentencing memorandum that the Department of Justice prepared for her back in 2022, and they made it explicitly clear that Ghislaine Maxwell is a liar. And so anything that you're going to get from Ghislaine Maxwell is not to be trusted. That's the reason why somebody like Congressman Garcia, who you and I know very well, that's why he wants the entire Epstein files subpoenaed from the Department of Justice to be able to corroborate what anything is said by Ghislaine Maxwell. But let's be clear. If she ends up getting the pardon and ends up being all for naught, any of this ends up being completely useless in terms of trying to verify what Ghislaine Maxwell has said.
- [03:31]
Jim Acosta
Well, I mean, a couple of things. One is, first of all, we just have to get it out of this right from the start here. I mean, part of Donald Trump's base is QAnon, and they're the ones who were running with the Pizzagate thing and the sex trafficking thing. So if Donald Trump, as a result of this Epstein Gate thing that he wants to make go away, if Donald Trump pardons a sex trafficker, that, I mean, I'm sorry, but his base should revolt. His base should turn their backs on him. Maybe they won't do it, and that's asking for too much much. But that would be the ultimate act of hypocrisy here. If Donald Trump were to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell, a convicted sex trafficker, after all of this QAnon bullshit about Democrats and Pizzagate and sex trafficking and so on. The other thing, though, that, that bugs me in all of this is exactly what you just said, that Todd Blanch is in the middle of this. And one has to think that Ghislaine Maxwell has probably already asked for a pardon, and I mean with a wink or a nod or through her attorney or what have you. I mean, you just have to expect that what is going to take place. And then Maxwell come out and make a statement that Donald Trump didn't do anything wrong and they'll try to wash their hands of the whole thing. But, but the moral of the story is if Donald Trump pardons a sex trafficker, that's on him. That's on his record.
- [04:49]
Katie Fang
Yeah. And Donald Trump acknowledges that it is his power. The presidential pardon power belongs to him and him alone. So that is the exclusive kind of escape hatch for Ghislaine Maxwell to be able to get out of her predicament. And let me set the table again for everybody who's tuning in so you guys understand kind of the, the background against which this is all transpiring. So, as we mentioned, Ghislaine Maxwell went to trial, was convicted and sentenced. She then appealed her convictions and sentence and an appeals court denied the relief that she was seeking. And that's why she's currently asking the United States Supreme Court to take up her appeal. Now, what are the grounds? And this is really important. So Ghislaine Maxwell has basically made an allegation that there was a non prosecution agreement, what we call an npa. The non prosecution agreement was by and between the United States attorn Attorney's office in the Southern District of Florida, who at the time was being run by Alex Acosta, who was the Secretary of Labor briefly for Donald Trump and Trump 1.0. That non prosecution agreement, according to Ghislaine Maxwell, should have applied to her because she was ultimately an indicted co conspirator of Jeffrey Epstein. She's raised that argument at the trial court level. It's been rejected. She raised it at the appellate court level. It's been rejected. But the argument that her lawyers are advancing to the Supreme Court to convince them to take the case is she's saying, should one promise by one United States Attorney's office, this being the one down in the Southern District of Florida, bind other United States Attorney's offices, this one being the Southern District of New York. And because of a conflict in the law in that, even though the Department of Justice policies are very clear that if any agreement like that is reached, both of the U.S. attorneys have to sign off on it from the respective jurisdictions. Maxwell saying, look, I was done wrong, I was done dirty by the US Attorney's office here and I should have been party. I'm not telling you I agree. I'm just telling you that's what her legal arguments are. And so what's fascinating, Jim, is she's not saying I'm totally innocent. What she's saying is I never should have been prosecuted in the first place, which I understand some people may quibble with me. It's just semantics. But I disagree. I think it's very clear here. Her root out of all of this is her saying this non prosecution agreement should have applied to me.
- [07:09]
Jim Acosta
Well, that would be on a technicality and not on whether she actually did these things, which true. You know, I mean, I suppose technicalities exist and people get off on technicalities. But Trump was, you know, speaking to reporters today as he left the White House and he was again being critical of people focusing on Epstein. He said people should really focus on how well the country is doing, later adding that he has nothing to do with the guy. I mean, that's not true. And then he went on to say that about the issue of a pardon or commuting her sentence. It's, it's something that I haven't really thought about. It's really, it's not recommended, he said. It's something I'm allowed to do, he added, but it's, it's something I've not thought of. He said, it's something I'm allowed to do. I, I've followed Donald Trump. I've covered him long enough. I've been up close with him. When he says those kinds of words, when he makes that kind of a comment, the gears are already turning in his head. So one has to think this has all been contemplated. And Katie, the other thing that, that I, you know, really bugs me in all of this is, you know, according to the Wall Street Journal bombshell that came down a few days ago, he was told that he was in the Epstein files back in May. He was informed by, and he already knew that he was in the Epstein files, but he was informed by Pam Bondi. And then they went through this whole theater of drafting that Justice Department memo putting it out, saying we're sweeping this under the rug, you know, case closed, whatever you want to call it. I mean, what were your thoughts on that when you saw that? And just the behavior that we've seen exhibited by Trump, Bondi, the Justice Department throughout all of this.
- [08:41]
Katie Fang
So a couple of thoughts, Jim. One, I think it's notable that it is Todd Blanche that is down in Tallahassee doing this meeting. It is not Pam Bondi. So you think if something this big is going on, the United States Attorney of the, excuse me, the United States Attorney General would be handling this. Right? But she's not. It is literally the deputy ag, somebody who is clearly, I, I have made this argument. I will make it again. She is not as battle tested in Trump's eyes as Todd Blanche is. Todd Blanche is somebody who I think he looks at and says he's got more gravitas, he's got more credibility and he has gone to war for me, more so than Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi has just been. And you know how Trump likes to look at and treat women, even those that he picks to serve in his cabinets. He doesn't have as much respect for them. In addition, Jim, Emile Beauvais is already swimming in a cesspool of caca, already dealing with his own federal nomination to the third circuit. EM Bovey's not going to touch this with a 10 foot pole because he also doesn't want to have complications for his Federal Circuit Court appointment for the appellate court. But here's the other thing, too. The Wall Street Journal also reported that back on Friday when they asked Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi about all of this, they said, we have done an exhausted review of the Epstein files and we have determined that there is no further prosecution or investigation warranted here. Then why in the world is Todd Blanche meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell, somebody who is a known liar, somebody who has been a con, who's been convicted as a sex trafficker and a pedophile in and of her own right, somebody whose guilt and culpability in all of this is just as bad as Jeffrey Epstein's, if not more. Remember, she is the one who was sent out of her own accord to recruit, to groom, to make them comfortable with the sexual abuse because she was a fellow woman. In fact, some would argue that she's more responsible for the degradation, abuse and harm that was caused to all of these victims and these survivors. And so the fact that Tom Blanche is meeting with her despite him and Pamela Joe saying that there's no further investigation or prosecution warranted just goes to show that they're full of shit as to why they're making this meeting. It is a dog and pony show. And even if they don't pardon her at the end, who's going to be the only person who's going to sit there and say what happened during that meeting? Todd Blanche, are you going to believe what Todd Blanche has to say? We question what Ghislaine Maxwell says, but are you going to believe what Todd Blanche is going to say?
- [11:04]
Jim Acosta
Well, and she really hasn't, I mean, up until this point. Katie, correct me if I'm wrong, Ghislaine Maxwell hasn't really sat down and spoken with prosecutors. It's only when she has this leverage over the President of the United States, she has him over a barrel. And she knows this is her moment to strike. She's like a viper. This is her moment to strike and she's going to strike. And I mean, Marcus, her attorney said after these comments from Donald Trump, well, we hope he exercises that power. Talk about the pardon in the right and just way. I mean, as you were saying earlier, I mean, it just feels like this is, I mean, again, the fix is in.
- [11:42]
Katie Fang
Yeah. And here's the thing. There's a reason why Ghislaine Maxwell hasn't sat down with prosecutors up until now. Todd Blanche went on social media and he made it look like he was some freaking superhero, that he was gonna go be with her because everybody else prior to him and have the balls to go and do it. When the reality is this Ghislaine Maxwell, like Jeffrey Epstein, was dead to rights when it came to the guilt and the culpability here. What value did Ghislaine Maxwell provide in this instance? None. She was about as high of a guilty fish in the food chain as possible. So who was she gonna flip and turn government evidence against herself? So. So here's the other thing, too. The indictments in this case made it clear that there were other people. Ghislaine Maxwell, if there was a time for her have a moment where she was going to be having a relationship with the truth, it should have been to make sure that the other people that were involved in this sex trafficking, that they were implicated directly. So if she was going to try to mitigate her sentence or her involvement, she should have done it years ago when she was facing the indictments and before she went to trial. But what's fascinating is since she's gone to trial and she was convicted back in 2021, in the last four years, she has never come forward and said, I have found Jesus and I have decided that I want to have a clear conscience. And so I am going to tell the world. Now, there's been no prohibition, Jim. She doesn't have a non disclosure agreement, she doesn't have any type of silencing clause in her sentencing. She could have written a book, she could have come forward, she could have called you. Frankly, she could have done anything and she's never.
- [13:09]
Jim Acosta
I did reach out to her lawyer, but anyway.
- [13:11]
Katie Fang
Yeah, well, there you go. You're proving my point. She never had anything of value to say until now. Spare Me, we're not that stupid.
- [13:18]
Jim Acosta
No, we're not that stupid. And here's the other thing that we haven't talked about, Katie, Another way that Trump might muddy the waters, besides just a quid pro quo. And speaking of that, I'll be talking to Lev Parnas in just a few minutes. But, you know, the other thing that they could try to do is just muddy the waters and have Ghislaine Maxwell say, well, you know, yes, Donald Trump might be in the Epstein files, but guess who else is? I mean, the Wall Street Journal has this story out today. The birthday book for Epstein included a note from Bill Clinton, too. The story says the biggest name in Jeffrey Epstein's book back in 2003, that birthday book was a past president rather than a future one. It says that there was a note from Bill Clinton, the former president at the time, and it said something along the lines. And I could read it here. It's reassuring, isn't it, to have lasted as long across all the years of learning and knowing adventures. And then there was something ineligible. And also to have your childlike curiosity, the drive to make a difference, and the solace of friends. I have no idea what any of that means, but apparently it's a no from Bill Clinton in there. And the reason why I bring this up is that Ghislaine Maxwell, along with Todd, Blanche and Donald Trump, could decide to hatch the scheme where not only does she say something to get her butt out of a sling and get out of jail, she could say all this other stuff. Bill Clinton's in there. These other Democrats are in there. So Trump can come out and say, hey, I'm not the only one in there. All these other folks are in there. And Ghislaine Maxwell says, so it's already started.
- [14:40]
Katie Fang
So Laura Loomer has posted on that cesspool of X. She's posted a clip of Donald Trump saying, I don't know why you're talking about me. Why aren't you talking about Bill Clinton? He went to that island 28 times on the jet. Yeah, okay, so Laura Loomer, I, I don't care how wackadoo she is, but she's still a mouthpiece for Donald Trump. So they are already coordinating it, right? They're already coordinating the rollout of how to capitalize on the Maxwell stuff, which is why there's the. The big tell is there's nothing being recorded in this meeting. You and I both know nothing's being transcribed. I mean, why not have the audio, a video, a transcription, by an independent court reporter so people can understand what was talk.
- [15:24]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, this should be happening in front of a judge, quite honestly.
- [15:27]
Katie Fang
Honestly, Congress is going to try to do a depot of her in August 11th. And so this is going to be interesting because House Oversight is going to do her depot August 11th. So what's going to happen then is, is she going to get pardoned between now and August 11th? Yes, because she's not going to have friendly fire, quote, unquote, from somebody like Todd Blanche. Right. She's going to be facing some tough questions as well. So there's a tight window. What is it, July 2020?
- [15:56]
Jim Acosta
I mean, if she gets pardoned, could she just hop on a plane and get the hell out of here?
- [16:01]
Katie Fang
Listen, she. Exactly. She has no obligation to continue to comply with a congressional subpoena. We know what people do with congressional subpoenas, Jim, especially in the Trump administration. But I think the political kryptonite, though, of a pardon of Ghislaine Maxwell. I don't care how valuable somebody in Magaland at Trump's. Trump's Maga brain thinks is going to be. I don't care how reptilian of a brain. That man has a pardon of a convicted sex predator of children. It's just too toxic. I mean, disgusting. I mean, if you've lost the QAnon Shaman on this, I don't think that this would ever carry the date. But that being said, to your point, if you kind of sprinkle in all sorts of absurd accusations about Clinton and you elevate it to Pizzagate, these people are so dumb that they have the attention span of squirrels. And I personally like squirrels. But it's like you, like you, you, you do this and then you say, okay, but all of this, and you've got Pizzagate on steroids. Right. And so you give them another conspiracy theory to latch onto and then they abandon it. And so I'm. I don't know. That's what I'm worried about happening.
- [17:12]
Jim Acosta
No, that's what I'm worried about is that they're going to say, you know, they'll coach her to say that, oh, Donald Trump's in there. Yes, they were acquaintances at one time. But, you know, just like the White House is saying, you know, that Donald Trump once said that, Epstein, you're out of Bar a Lago because you're a creep. And Ghislaine Maxwell will repeat those words and then she will start to throw Democrats under the bus and accuse them of 10 different things and try to massage this In a way, no pun intended, that it makes Trump look like he's the winner in all of this. And that, to me, is the. And I tend to agree with you, and I'll take it one step further. I think if Donald Trump pardons Ghislaine Maxwell, his presidency is basically over. He is, for all intents and purposes, a lame duck who is damaged goods, not just to the Republican Party, but to the country. Somebody who pardoned a convicted child sex trafficker. My God. I mean, we're not talking about pardoning. I mean, he has already pardoned January 6, rioters and criminals and so on. That was shameful enough. But a child sex trafficker? I mean, my God, have you no decency? That's what I would say if you were to try something like that. But your final thoughts, because I know you got to go.
- [18:25]
Katie Fang
Yeah, but what we need to do is this. We have to stay on this. And I was talking with Simon Rosenberg earlier today. We can walk and chew gum at the same time, Jim. We can talk about the Epstein stuff. We can talk about the other betrayals that Donald Trump has done to the American people. But the ironies of ironies is that I've been saying politics makes strange bedfellows. In this instance, Tom Massie, even James Comer, who agreed to the subpoena from House Oversight for these records from doj. If we can. If we can harp on the fact that Donald Trump just betrays people left and right, including his own base. And that's what we should be doing. We should remind people that this is exactly par for the course. This is what you get from somebody who himself has been found liable of sexual abuse by a jury of his own peers.
- [19:08]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, exactly. No, I mean, he has a. I mean, you look at the video, the montages that have been playing lately where he's looking up at the. The young girl on the escalator and say, I'll be dating her in 10 years. I mean, you know, how about the.
- [19:22]
Katie Fang
Stuff he says about his own daughter?
- [19:24]
Jim Acosta
The stuff he says about his own daughter. The stuff on Howard Stern that his cutoff is 12 years old. I mean, at some point, Maga Qanon, people, let the truth seep into your brain. You know what I mean? Forget what Fox News is pumping out every day and how they're not covering Epstein gay. Forget about that. Use your mind, Use your reasoning skills to try to figure out what the hell's going on here. And that is. This is a massive cover up. Katie, I know you gotta go. I don't wanna hold you up, but I feel like we didn't really scratch the surface in the last 20 minutes. We gotta do this again soon. But really appreciate it.
- [20:02]
Katie Fang
Anytime. I'll come back anytime. And thanks to everybody who tuned in. I appreciate it.
- [20:06]
Jim Acosta
You're the best. Thanks, Katie. Really appreciate it.
- [20:08]
Katie Fang
It. Bye, guys.
- [20:09]
Jim Acosta
Great to talk to Katie as always. All right, so folks have been asking all week long, Jim, Jim, when are you gonna have Lev Parnas on? Jim, Jim, we gotta have Lev. All right, you're getting Lev. Here comes Lev. Lev Parnas coming on the show. I saw he had, he had posted something earlier this week. I think it was a couple of days ago. Jim, why won't you have me on your show? You know, listen, I, you know, when I have Elizabeth Warren on, I got Ruben Gallagher going, I mean, we got people coming on who are some good guests, but, but we finally got Lev Parnas on. There he is right there. Lev, good to see you, man. How are you?
- [20:42]
Lev Parnas
Good. Good to finally see you, Jim. I know it's, oops, sorry about that. I know it's been a long journey, but finally we're here and I think.
- [20:51]
Jim Acosta
It'S been like for some time now that you and I have been trying to connect and make this conversation happen. So we've got lots of time. Let's jump into this. I mean, for the people who have been living under a rock and don't understand Lev. Of course, we should also note Lev is starring in the documentary from Rachel Maddow From Russia with Lev, which is a terrific title which chronicles the twisty tale of the Ukrainian born operative Lev Parnas, whose association with Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani took him on a strange journey that ended in a stealth campaign to dig up dirt on then candidate Joe Biden. Reading from a Variety magazine description of the documentary. But I mean, Lev, you played a role in that first impeachment trial and I mean, Trump was acquitted in all of that. And of course he, he got impeached again for trying to overturn an election and inciting a violent insurrection at the Capitol. But one of the things we gotta talk about is Trump is talking about. I wanna talk about Epstein in a second. But Trump is talking about all of these conspiracies involving the Obamas and the Clintons and the Bidens. But Trump actually conspired to dig up dirt on Joe Biden and tried to pressure the Ukrainians to get into coots with him. So it's kind of rich to me that Trump is talking about all these conspiracies and the Obamas and James Clapper and, and James Comey and everything. He was part of this and they roped you into it too. What's been your reaction watching him throw this stuff out and trying to see what sticks?
- [22:12]
Lev Parnas
I mean, you know him, Jim. I mean, it's typical Trump. It's basically reflect, it's project on others what he's doing himself. Actually. That's why, you know, when you're in the deep state, I mean, when you're in that might get called and when you're, you know, he told. And every day, you know, you project about the deep state, about how all of the Democrats and they're doing it and in the meantime time, you know, what's really happening is he's doing the same. What that's what he's actually doing. That's what he's trying to accomplish. That's what he's projecting and that's what's happening right now. I mean, watching what's playing, what's being played out in front of our eyes is just, I mean, sick. It's a, it's, it's, it's gotten to a degree when we're literally sitting here and watching the possibility of a child trapped, sex trafficker or a pedophile or whatever you want to call her, but somebody so heinous that we shouldn't even be speaking or giving any effort. But we're talking about. Because the President of the United States that ran on a platform and you have to understand, Jim, a lot of people that might not know, they call me. I was one of the original OG maga. You know, when they say the original, because, you know, 2015, 16, that's when MAGA was born. And I was part of it. I was part of the hierarchy, the leadership, whatever you want to call it, the brainwashing and the Epstein files, that was inbred into us. It was basically something to us that was more important than immigration, it was more important than the financials. It was it. Because it led into the deep state, it led into the Clintons, the Obamas. You know, that's where QAnon came from. It led into all of these such sick and depraved stories that Trump not only ran on, but a lot of these other congressional races and races. You have people like right now, the head of the FBI, Cash Patel, that I know very well, all of them intimately, from Pam Bondi to Cash Patel to Dan.
- [24:07]
Jim Acosta
How do you know them so well? Because of what the Trump hotel lobby and that sort of Thing.
- [24:12]
Lev Parnas
Well, not only that, but I mean, I was literally. I mean, a lot of people don't know how close I really was. I mean, Jim, Rudy Giuliani was godfather to one of my kids. Wow. I spend more time with Rudy and Trump and being at all of these events and all, you know, from Kevin McCarthy to Lindsey Graham, you name it. Devin Nunoz. I mean, I worked with Devin Nunoz, Derek Harvey Chatel behind the scenes to interrogate Ukrainian prosecutors to get dirt on the Bidens. I mean, Nunoz tried to sue CNN, myself and Vicky Ward for $300 million, which he lost, obviously, because Vicky Ward did a story about my relationship with Nunoz. He was just think about it, he was the head of the impeachment committee, sitting up there talking about that I'm a criminal. He knows, know who I am, making up a whole story when Adam Schiff comes out with the phone record and saying, wait a second, you spoke to the guy for 10 minutes before you called the White House, blowing up his. I mean, these are the type of liars they are. And to the extent they go and I was in those rooms, I mean, I know them all intimately. I mean, from text messages that I still have that I haven't produced. And that's why I use my substack right now as my voice to be able to go out there and try to do whatever I can to save our democracy, to be, you know, to be able to go give an inside look like even what's happening right now. I just spoke to some of my sources and literally they're rolling out the game. You know, Blanche has already spoken with Trump and yesterday the meeting that they had, the conversation was about what they're gonna basically roll out. And it's going to be a cleansing of Trump. And B, it's going to be, you know, definitely, I mean, Clinton, I'm sure everybody knows the Clinton, but there's gonna be some very interesting financial guy names in there, wa people that are connected to fundraising, to Democratic parties that were going to lead into other conspiracy theories that are already laid out. And, you know, for those of you that don't know, I know Todd Blanche very well. He was part of my legal defense. Todd Blanche, eventually, when I kicked him off, ended up defending my co conspirator, Igor Fruman. And he played a big role on trying to cover up up for all the information, Jim, that I gave in the first impeachment of Donald Trump. Out of the 300 articles of impeachment that they handed over, a hundred of those articles were things that I handed over. But it didn't go easy because Todd Blanch filed, you know, tried to go to court and have it sealed. So I couldn't hand it over because even at that time he was working for Trump. Even though unofficially.
- [26:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And so when you see tomorrow, Todd, Todd Blanch involved in these conversations with Ghislaine Maxwell, they've been calling them interviews over the last couple of days. I kind of laugh at that. But they're calling them conversations with Ghislaine Maxwell, a convicted child sex trafficker. By the way, what goes through your mind? I mean, you know, he's obviously still acting as Donald Trump's defense attorney, it seems to me.
- [27:19]
Lev Parnas
I mean, he even subconsciously that's how he filed the records. If those of you who don't know, he actually filed as Donald Trump's defense attorney instead of the Attorney General. Yes, sister, Attorney General of the United States. I mean, I know Todd Blanche very well because like I said, he was originally part of my defense team. He stayed on as co defendant to one of my co defendants through my trial. I've butted heads with them many of times. And previously I know the strategy of keeping quiet and formulating a plan. Even when we were arrested, nobody wanted to know the truth. Nobody cared about it. It was formulating a story of how to protect Donald Trump for him not to get impeached and for us to keep quiet and take the brunt and then later on get pardoned. So that's the strategy that was back in 2019. I can't imagine there'd be anything else. And not only that, but I've spoken to some reliable sources that tell me that that's exactly what's happening right now, literally in the past 48 hours. That's what' transpiring.
- [28:26]
Jim Acosta
Interesting. Well, and the other thing that people should take away as a lesson in all of this is look at the way Donald Trump has treated Rudy Giuliani. You don't see Rudy Giuliani making trips over to the White House and putting his arm around Donald Trump these days. Trump has essentially kicked Rudy Giuliani to the curb. I think he put his son Andrew in charge of some sports office or something like that in the administration. I think Giuliani got offered some kind of of advisory board role somewhere or something like that. But he's not the personal attorney to Donald Trump anymore. And he does this time and again to his lawyers. He kicks his own lawyers to the curb, uses them and throws them out. They're disposable. Parts to him.
- [29:05]
Lev Parnas
Well, everybody's a disposable part, Jim. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a lawyer, if you're. Because Donald Trump, we always have to come back to the roots, where he came from, who taught him, from coming from a dictatorship, authoritarian and father that Fred, that I worked for when I was 15 years old, real estate, to then having a guy like Roy Cohen then that work you through the rings and teach you, you know, everything that we're seeing play out. So, you know, Donald Trump, you know that there is no loyalty in Donald Trump. You know, he, he grew up knowing that loyalty goes one way from the top down. You know, you have to, you know, everybody has to be loyal to Donald Trump, but Donald Trump's not loyal to anybody.
- [29:47]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I mean, the other thing that is on my mind is to what extent is Donald Trump in these Epstein files? Do you have any insights into that? What, what are your thoughts on it? Do you think he's got something to hide here? I mean, like you said, you've been kind of in MAGA world a little bit, or you were for several years. I covered him for a long time, and I never really, I mean, I thought it was odd that he was, you know, so close to Jeffrey Epstein. You know, you would see the video and of the two of them dancing, and it looked pretty creepy, and it seemed consistent with his behavior when it, when it comes to women and so on. But is it possible that there's something more nefarious that the public just doesn't know about yet? What are your thoughts on that? Do you have any insights into that? What do you think?
- [30:36]
Lev Parnas
Well, I'm gonna put it like this, Jim. Look, you know, you've covered it for a long time, and we have all common sense here, and that's the difference between most people and the mega cult. I mean, if it, right now, as we're sitting here, if we hear thunder outside and all of a sudden we come outside and it's wet all over the place, we don't have to actually see the rain. We know it's rain outside. That's called circumstantial evidence. It's called common sense, whatever you want to call it. Same thing with Trump. A lot of people are trying to say, okay, what's the crazy smoking gun that we're going to see in the Epstein files? I mean, we need to understand that what's. We don't need a smoking guy on. Let's talk about facts. Donald Trump is a convicted sexual offender. That's in the E. G. Carroll case. He appealed it, he lost. He is an official sexual.
- [31:22]
Jim Acosta
Well, we have to say he was found liable for sexual abuse. I think that's what we have to say.
- [31:27]
Lev Parnas
Yeah, that's the correct way. But still, he himself, in his own words, on plenty of shows, called himself a sexual predator, and his own daughter called him that. On Howard Stern, I mean, he's himself.
- [31:40]
Jim Acosta
Well, he's made a lot of comments over the years. Years that, I mean, obviously are. Are not the kind of comments that come from somebody who has, like, normal views on women, you know, or underage girls. You know, when he looks up an escalator and says, I'll see you in 10 years. I'll date her in 10 years. When he's on Howard Stern and he says, you know, that his Cutoff Age is 12 years. I mean, there's. There's stuff that. That. That just churns your stomach and. But, Lev, I mean, what was the moment for you that made you say. Because you were like, you were saying at the beginning of the this, you were a big Trump fan. You were a MAGA guy. What changed it all for you?
- [32:18]
Lev Parnas
Well, to me, it was. I had to hit a brick wall, Jim. You know, I ended up. I say that the worst day of my life was the best day of my life, you know, by me getting arrested. As bad as it was, as hurtful it was for my family and everything I had to go through and still go through, it was a savior, because I don't know where I would have ended up January 6th if I would have still been part of Mega. I don't know where I would be today. I. Because I was as high as you could get. I mean, I was sitting in, you know, with Jay Sokolow and Rudy and the defense team during the Mueller report. I spoke to Nicolas Maduro on behalf of Trump and with Rudy, you know, and Pete Sessions on the phone, Congressman Sessions, you know, I've been involved in a lot. I've been there in talks with him and President Erdogan from Turkey. I've been working with Brian Ballard for all. I mean, the Qatari connections, everything. I know them all. I've been there. I mean, I've been part of that family since, like, 2003. So I was so deep inside when I had to. Ended up in prison. I think the biggest thing for me was when I got that postcard from Rudy, slipped underneath my prison cell when I got. And, you know, and it said to me, you know, don't worry you know, you got good lawyers. Paul Manafort only got seven and a half years, you know, that message. And none of them coming to see me, not Rudy, not Victoria, not Joe DiGenova, none of them coming to my prison when I was arrested and finding that I was arrested under espionage charges. So I saw the writing on the wall, I started seeing it, and I was blessed, literally, that I had the support of my family. My son Aaron, that, you know, at that time, I mean, he was completely, he was like 19 years old, just going through George Washington Law School. My wife was pregnant or just gave birth, actually. And I was blessed to have their support, to be able to go through that change. But it was difficult because, you know, I've always, I was so hard set that there was a deep state and that I was, you know, I believed so much in everything that I was doing that I was helping our country that it took me a little bit of time to snap out. But once I snapped out, as you, as you probably know, I mean, I went full force. You know, once I did my interview on Rachel Maddow, it was, you know, all in from there.
- [34:39]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And one of the things I've heard you do is you've defended Hunter Biden in the past. And what, what have been your thoughts on that? Because, I mean, that was another thing that Donald Trump would go after time and again. They would try, they, you know, they, they, they called it the Biden crime family and said that Hunter Biden had, you know, tried to do these things for that Ukrainian energy company, Burisma, and, you know, that his father was making money off of it and it was all this big plot. And, you know, you, because you're intimately involved in that, in that quid pro quo scheme. When Trump said, hey, if you can get me some dirt on Joe Biden, I'll help you out with the weapons. When he said that to Zelensky, you were a part of that. But I mean, what has made you want to defend Hunter Biden now, I guess, is a question.
- [35:31]
Lev Parnas
Well, it's not so much defending Hunter Biden. I'm going to make it clear because I wanted to make the story short, straight. I wanted to clear the air. I wanted to make sure that the truth got out. Because one of the things about my platform, Jim, is not about give opinions, you know, but it's about trying to get the facts and the truth out. Yeah. And I was a part of not only one quid pro quo, but a lot of people don't know there was two quid Pro quos. The first one was with the first president of Ukraine. Trump sent me there to give him the same type of go after, give me dirt on the Bidens, which he turned down. That was President Poroshenko. And then when the elections turned out, you know, I was vehemently involved on behalf of Trump in the elections of walking around saying, who's going to give us the support? Who's gonna give us the dirt on the Bidens Trump's going to support in the elections? To that degree, a lot of people don't even know that. And then when Zelenskyy won, which was. Nobody even thought that that was going to be possible. He sent me not only on the clip of Crow, but I'm the one that Pence wasn't going to arrive for the inauguration. I'm the one that told them that they're not the military. That's how they found out the military aid is cut off, is because Trump sent me that to tell him. So I was very much not only involved, I was part of the beginning of that whole operation of gay and dirt. But then at some point I started seeing that we were hitting that, like, every time we were promised with the smoking gun, the video, the audio, the, you know, the bank records, it wouldn't show up. It would be another leaf that would go somewhere else.
- [37:19]
Jim Acosta
And knowing you weren't finding the dirt.
- [37:22]
Lev Parnas
Right. Not only were we finding the dirt, but I started seeing that, we started manufacturing the dirt. Because when we started meeting, what I called, we were called the BLT team. It was at the. We would meet at the steakhouse, the BLT Steakhouse at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C. it was me, Rudy Giuliani, John Solomon, which goes. He goes under the radar so much, but he was one of the Main Architects. Joe diGenova and Victoria Tunzing. We would meet and discuss what story Fox needed to put out, what to keep the pressure on to make sure the Biden stuff was in the news. And it was, you know, like, I gave Congress text messages of, you know, then Solomon texting me, I need something today. We need to, you know, Trump. Trump is, you know, we need something. Put something out today and go. Go get a story. And it was like, you know, at some point it became, you know, manufacture, just going out there and grabbing anything that fit into our. Our narrative.
- [38:21]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [38:22]
Lev Parnas
So that was, you know, part of where I started realizing. But not when I was doing it after I got out of the cult. When I was in the cult, I was all in, Jim. I was. Yeah, Until I got arrested, you know. You know, I have to be honest. It was, you know, I didn't consider Hunter Biden a human being. We didn't consider Hunter Biden was just a tool for us. Hunter Biden was just a way of keeping Trump in office, a casualty of war, whatever you want to call it, he wasn't somebody. And because of his, you know, because of some of the bad things that Hunter Biden did from the videos and his backstory, it was easy to look at him in that way that, you know, like, not as a good human being, but after I came out of it and after I stopped, started speaking true to power on Trump and all of them, I started going through my own, you know, stuff with my own son, Aaron, and my own kids, like, you know, because I'm also a father. And started realizing and watching the constant attacks now on the sidelines, how Rudy and Fox and Bannon and all of them kept going after Hunter and going after. And watching them use my information, watching, watching, you know, my information that we've generated, go to the halls of Congress, you know, watching these senators and congressmen walk around with it, talk about how this is real when we know it was invented, when we know it wasn't made up and coming up. And it came to a point where I said, you know, what if that was my son? What if that was Aaron they were doing to me? You know, what if that. You know, and I started going to it in that sense in a way where it really hit me, and I made it my mission. I said, I need to clear the air. Not because of some political, you know, which. The country. I owe that to the country. I figured that that's a good thing anyway. But I. I think I owed it to you.
- [40:12]
Jim Acosta
Never found any nefarious. You never found any evidence that Hunter had done something criminal or. Or anything along those lines that would become a problem for the Bidens?
- [40:24]
Lev Parnas
No, he was being used. I mean, the. The opposite. The optics were very bad.
- [40:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, we saw that stuff for sure.
- [40:32]
Lev Parnas
Yeah, right. He was definitely used, you know what I'm saying to you? So he was definitely used by some very powerful and some very serious people. I mean, he was taped by, you know, FSB agents when he was in Kazakhstan. I mean, he was there. What. So there was a lot, definitely. But Hunter, see, you know, to Hunter, like him or not, he was so messed up. He was so. So effed up at the time on drugs and everything else that I don't think he could have even functioned to do those stuff. Like he was. You know what I'm saying?
- [41:05]
Jim Acosta
That was why that behavior was happening. Right, Exactly.
- [41:07]
Lev Parnas
He was trying to get his next fix.
- [41:08]
Jim Acosta
But in terms of some corruption involving the Ukrainians and Burisma, the stuff that you were sent to find.
- [41:14]
Lev Parnas
Correct.
- [41:15]
Jim Acosta
You didn't find it.
- [41:16]
Lev Parnas
No. You had more people that were manipulating Hunter because of the position that he was in and using that to then, you know, obviously there was a lot of money made, Hunter, you know, and, you know, for him, it was at that time, it was the next fix that he was looking at, not trying to get an energy deal.
- [41:38]
Jim Acosta
Right. And let me ask you this, Lev, and forgive me if you've been asked this before, and I'm just ignorant of it, but have you ever had conversations with Donald Trump? Did he ever. Thank you for trying to do these for him. These things for him. What. What were those interactions like?
- [41:55]
Lev Parnas
Well, I've had plenty of conversations with Donald Trump. I mean, we've had. There was a dinner tape that came out where we had an hour and a half dinner.
- [42:04]
Jim Acosta
Right, the dinner tape. That's right.
- [42:06]
Lev Parnas
That my partner taped about getting rid of the ambassador. We've basically.
- [42:13]
Jim Acosta
Oh, that's right. The ambassador. She's going to go through some things and all that.
- [42:15]
Lev Parnas
Exactly.
- [42:16]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [42:17]
Lev Parnas
We've also. The way we did because not only was the way we would have it set up, as I was also because of part of the donor family. So every time there was like a mega event, there would be the photo line and there would be. So I would always get access, like, you know, two, three minutes prior to the photo line to have a quick conversation with them before the photo, stuff like that, to update him on where we were at the White House when he sent me to Ukraine, patted me on the back when that was Hanukkah, 2018, December1, right after the Bush funeral. Funeral, when we were at the White House in the red room. I haven't released that video yet. I still have that video. I'm gonna release it on Substack one day.
- [43:03]
Jim Acosta
Interesting. Okay.
- [43:05]
Lev Parnas
Red room interaction at the White House.
- [43:07]
Jim Acosta
You've got some video of you and Trump.
- [43:09]
Lev Parnas
Oh, yeah, I planted me and Mar? A Lago. I have. That's one of the things that saved me, actually, because when they arrested me, Barr arrested me not because he wanted to get to the bottom of the truth. Barr arrested me because he wanted to bury the truth and shut me up and paid the narrative. Narrative, you know, make me the fall guy. The Russian spy that got into Trump and Trump was, you Know, because remember, Jim, this all started, if you recall, with the whistleblowers complaint. When the whistleblower complaint came out, the first person that seen it was Bill Barr. And Bill Barr saw that. This is when I was named as Rudy's guy on the ground. And this is. And he knew that Congress was going to go after me. So how do you shut somebody up? You arrest them. You arrest them and you shut them up. That's why what I want. Well, yeah.
- [43:56]
Jim Acosta
And you know, Lev, when I'm thinking, when I'm hearing about this, what I'm thinking, what's going through my mind is this sounds like the mob. It sounds like you got mixed up in the mob.
- [44:08]
Lev Parnas
It's funny, Jim, if you watch my documentary, my whole life, I grew up on the streets of Brooklyn. I've been around mobster and some of the most powerful people in my life. I've never got arrested, never got in trouble. And here I am working for the President of the United States States, and I go to prison because that's the real mob. I mean, yeah, I write about, talk about all the time. Donald Trump. Well, he's graduated. The first term, he ran it like a mob boss. Now he's running it like a pure dictator. Now he's graduated where he's now, like people say he's Putin's puppet. I tell people, stop right there. Yes, he's Putin's useful idiot, but he's also a Putin student of authoritarianism. What he's bringing here to the United States, he's learning and trying to make it better here. That's why he idolizes people like Kim Jong Un and Putin and Chi and other powerful guys because they control their country. You can't say no to them if they like something. And you're watching it all play out this term, the first term, he was running it like a mob boss. This time around, we're in pure dictatorship mode. He's graduated.
- [45:17]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And it sounds like you're, you're worried. You're worried about what's to come. I mean, we just hit six months. You saw, he has three and a half to go. Three and a half years to go.
- [45:24]
Lev Parnas
Well, I'm tremendously worried, Jim, because one of the things that I sound the alarm and I'm so happy that we have, you know, that you have me on your show, on your platform, because you have a huge audience. One of the things that I write about and talk about that it's just extremely important that the media doesn't talk about because they're Too right now, distracted with the EPC stuff and everything else is, is what Trump is really doing behind the scenes that is extremely dangerous. And that's called election reform. It's part of his Project 2025 program that is being instilled and being run by Stephen Miller and Russell Vaught and Tom Holman from ice. Not somebody that's been approved by the Senate or congressionally approved by. Just a figure that is loyal to Donald Trump, that is now running an agency that has more power and more money than the FBI, DOJ or anything else. And he's also, you keep in mind, it's like his own personal fsb. Like Putin has the fsb. Trump now has his ICE secret police. Secret police. And now he's going to. And now go to. But he's already implementing. That's why, you know, Pam Bondi is so important to him. That's why when people talk about, oh, he's going to get rid of Pam, but he's not getting rid of any of these loyalists. They're important to him because he needs to stay in power. He needs her to rewrite DOJ regulations, he needs Cash Patel to start opening up FBI investigations on their adversaries, and he needs to threaten. I mean, there's a lot of things that are taking place behind the scenes and that's what I'm scared of most of all. Because if we don't somehow wake up and there are already certain congressmen out there, like you see, Tillis Bacon, others that I sound the alarm, I mean, they're sticking up. I mean, standing up. If there were a few more. And I'm hoping that they stand up in time before he takes over full control. I'm scared that, you know, we might not be able to have a fair at square election. I'm worried about that, you know, and then we're in real trouble because if he's able to somehow steal, rig or fix whatever word you wanna call the 2026 midterms, we're not even talking about the presidential.
- [47:33]
Jim Acosta
I wouldn't put it past him. I wouldn't put it past him.
- [47:36]
Lev Parnas
And that's what scares me because that's what I keep hearing from people inside his own circle. Because there's, you know, Jim, there's people inside his circle that they say to me, we'll love your sources. There's people that are regular. Yeah. That for whatever reason, like him or not, but they also are getting hurt by his own policies, by the terr, by this and that they lied, but, you know, they don't agree. Some of them have family and friends that, you know, are not pure white, that are also scared to go to the local, maybe Mexican taco stand because they might get raided or picked up. You know what I'm saying to you? It's affecting everybody. It's not just the people inside his inner circle. So there are people that are scared, but speaking out.
- [48:18]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And make no mistake, and I experienced this during the first Trump term, and I, I think it still applies to this day. There are people in Trump world who know he's a dangerous guy, and they are still in his world, they're still in his orbit because they benefit from it in some way. But if you speak with them privately, and I know you speak to some of them privately, and I, I do from time to time, they know he's, he, they know he's a dangerous person. And then that, that's, that goes back to what you were saying earlier. You need people on the inside to speak out. You need people on the, the inside to do the right thing before they get burned.
- [48:54]
Lev Parnas
Before they get burned. And that's what Trump is trying to do. He knows right now his number one thing is he's going after all the leakers. He's trying to shut up, he's trying to scare, threaten, you know what I'm saying to you? And that's one of his tactics. Absolutely. And you speak to all of these people that are on the inside, and the one thing that you're 100% right is a lot of them are there for their own personal greed. Either it's cryptocurrency or it's because anybody that's around Trump has a transactional component into it. Because Trump is transactional. They're either making money with them. They either need. Because in his first term, it's interesting that you say, Jim, in his first term, I remember that Donald Trump, that everybody from the congressman, I remember Kevin McCarthy one time would laugh, we would laugh about Don Jr. And Donald Trump. They would make some fun of him behind his back, and then he'd come in and they'd be all like, you know, like nothing. Now it's the opposite. Now, what you're saying, they're not making fun of him, they're scared of him. They're talking about, like, you know, they're really worried about it, but they're still, some of them are, you know, either just too far because of, you know, financial or because they're complicit in a lot of this stuff because of, they're implicated.
- [50:11]
Jim Acosta
They might be implicated in bad stuff.
- [50:13]
Lev Parnas
Yeah, absolutely.
- [50:16]
Jim Acosta
Well, Lev, let's do this again sometime. But very interesting comments from you. Very interesting insights. I guess we're going to see how this thing plays out. But I guess, you know, the, the conversation I had with Katie Fang at the beginning of all this makes me think. And, and you might be able to agree with this based on what, you know, it feels like the fix is in right now and they're going to try to clean this, this Epstein thing up in the next couple of weeks before she even gets close to testifying up on Capital, if that ever happens.
- [50:43]
Lev Parnas
It's amazing. You see, God works in mysterious ways for all you subscribers out there. This was not planned out this way, but me and Katie actually had us live earlier today.
- [50:53]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:54]
Lev Parnas
You can't even, you know, that's why. Because, you know, she's incredible. And that's why we did. Because. Exactly. You couldn't say better. Jim, the fix is in. It's already right now what we're watching. And mostly what we watch with Trump is called. It's theatrics, it's optics. Trump is a showman. There's real people that pull the like when it comes to policy. It's people like Stephen Miller and Russell Vaught and others and Susie Wiles that are really the brains behind. And Trump is just a puppet when it comes to international. It's the Vladimir Putin's and others that are pulling the strings. And Trump is just trying to get the, you know, he's still chasing that Nobel Peace Prize. He's still chasing for him. It's all recognition, you know. You know that, Jim.
- [51:38]
Jim Acosta
Oh, yeah.
- [51:39]
Lev Parnas
But you. Yeah, listen, I want to thank you for having me on your platform. I'm always grateful. We should definitely do it again. And hopefully as this plays out, if there's some more breaking stuff we could definitely come on and talk about. But I think we're going to see in the next 48 to 72 hours, they're going to start rolling out the plan.
- [52:01]
Jim Acosta
The plan. The plan of action.
- [52:03]
Lev Parnas
The plan of action. Correct.
- [52:04]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, it sounds like a quid pro quo of another kind is in the works. There's no question about it. But Lev Parnas, great to talk to you, man. Thanks a lot.
- [52:13]
Lev Parnas
Take care, brother. Thank you, Jeff.
- [52:15]
Jim Acosta
All right. Appreciate the time. All right, that's Lev Parnas. You know, I had some folks on this week saying, you know, Jim, where's Lev? We want, we want to hear from Lev on this. And it was a good call because Lev, I think, has a lot of insights into, let's face it, some of the dirty dealings, some of the underhanded methods of Trump world and he was a part of that for some time. So the light went through a very difficult learning experience that brought him to this point where he understood what Trump is all about. And now I think based on my conversations with Katie and with Lev, I do think just to close out the show, that we should go into the weekend, I think feeling a bit gratified that we are starting to see some of the truth come out about Donald Trump and the Epstein files. The Wall Street Journal bombshell, the other stuff day that, that said that yes, Trump's name is in the Epstein files. We, we all thought that was the case. But to have it in print in a major newspaper and a rug Rupert Murdoch owned newspaper is important. But that I think was good because it, it felt as though, you know, that we haven't been totally blinded by Trump and his and shenanigans and dirty dealings and all of the underhanded things that he does. We can still get the truth out there. But make no mistake, folks, in the coming days, what you may be about to see, and we don't know if this is the case or not, but if you base on what we're hearing this afternoon, it sounds as though that these conversations from Todd Blanch's standpoint with Ghislaine Maxwell, that these conversations might have gone fairly well from Donald Trump's perspective. If you have her attorney coming out and saying that she answered all the questions and you know, that's what Marcus is saying, her attorney, you know, he's saying, well, we haven't asked for anything. There's been no asks and no promises. Those are the words of an attorney and a very good attorney, a very skilled attorney. But when Donald Trump is on the South Lawn of the White House getting ready to go on a foreign trip to Scotland and he's asked about whether or not he's going to give a pardon to Ghislaine Matt Maxwell and he tries to say, oh, I haven't thought about it and that sort of thing, but when he uses the words I'm allowed to do it, when Donald Trump, when asked about a pardon of Ghisne Maxwell, says I'm allowed to do it, make no mistake, there is something on his mind. And it, it may be that what we're about to see here in the coming days is a brand new quid pro quo, folks. A this for that Donald Trump granting a pardon to Ghislaine Maxwell for the ability to extricate himself from the current crisis that he is in right now, as I've been calling it, Epstein gate. And he may think that that's the end of this. But make no mistake, make no mistake, and this is my view on this. The day that Donald Trump pardons Ghislaine Maxwell, a convicted sex trafficker, the day he pardons her, his presidency is essentially over. His presidency is essentially over. It will be written, and for all of those folks in MAGA who don't want to hear this, I'm just going to say it anyway. It will be written in his biography. He may not have this in the Trump library, if that's ever built, but it'll be written in his biography, biography, in his obituary, after he leaves the scene one day that he pardoned a sex trafficker in the middle of a scandal that was engulfing his presidency. That's basically what he, what he's about to do, it seems to me, and I hope that there are enough people in maga, enough people in his base who will say, give me a break, give me a break, Donald Trump, you're going to pardon a sex trafficker after all this? I mean, I can't tell you how many Trump rallies I've been to where they had the QAnon signs and the Q's and the where we go one, we go all that entire conspiracy theory movement was built on the lie that Democrats were running some sort of child sex trafficking ring out of a pizza parlor in Washington, D.C. and that they were all part of this big conspiracy to traffic children for nefarious reasons. And to think, and to think after he gets back to the White House, after he gets back in the Oval Office, that he would have the audacity, the shameful audacity to pardon a sex trafficker to get out of the current predicament that he's in. I think that says everything that you need to know about Donald Trump, folks. And I think fair minded Americans will say at that point, my God, why is this man President of the United States? You're already starting to see it in the polling, 37% in the latest Gallup Poll. Independents are fleeing Donald Trump. Trump's, if you want to call it a base or, or base of support in this country right now. They're, they're fleeing him. They're saying, no more. I can't take this anymore. What's with this Epstein file stuff? If he pardons a convicted sex trafficker to get out of the jam that he's in. What does that say about his presidency? What does that say about his use of the pardon power? What does that say about who he is is if that's what he does at the end of all of this? Something to think about this weekend folks but it may be something we're about to see here in the coming days. Donald Trump trying like he's never tried before to get himself out of a jam. Something we're about to see I think here in the next day or so. My thanks to Katie Fang, my thanks to Lev Parnas, my thanks to all of you for tuning in in all week week two of our coverage of Epstein Gate. It's going to continue. We'll see where this thing leads next. But thanks everybody for watching. Really appreciate it. Still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a great weekend. I'll see you next week. Bye bye.
- [58:46]
Katie Fang
It.