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The Jim Acosta Show
Weekend Bonus Edition of "The Jim Acosta Show" - my interview with Oregon Senator Ron Wyden
00:55:37
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- [00:04]
Adam
All right.
- [00:07]
Jim Acosta
Yes. Thank you very much, Adam. Thanks to everybody for joining us today. Thanks to Senator Ron Wyden. I think we're going to have a great conversation. As Adam was saying a few moments ago, there are a few things happening in the news right now.
- [00:19]
Senator Ron Wyden
You think?
- [00:19]
Jim Acosta
I think, yeah. It's been a little busy. But we should also be very grateful that the senator was able to take time out of his busy schedule. It does not get more busy than a Votarama that goes until five in the morning. And so you'll have to have a little bit of patience with us as we're getting through all of this. And as Adam was mentioning a few moments ago, Senator Wyden has a new book out. I'm going to hold it up right here. It is called, it is entitled It Takes how to Fight Fearlessly for Progressive Change. So everybody needs to check out Senator Wyden's new book. And we're going to be talking about that in conversation.
- [00:54]
Senator Ron Wyden
If you're a basketball player like me, you might call it Hoops PA There you go.
- [01:01]
Jim Acosta
And just a warning to everybody, there will be dad jokes today. So I'm glad we got that one out of the way. But Senator Wyden, great to talk to you. We've had interactions over the years, but I don't know if we've ever had a chance to have this kind of a conversation. So I'm really looking forward to this. I'm going to be posting this on my substack later if folks are interested in and watching it later. But I guess first of all, let's just jump right into it. Tell us about the book. Why is chutzpah so important right now?
- [01:32]
Senator Ron Wyden
Chutzpah is critical today because I don't think our system of checks and balances what the Founding Fathers had in mind has ever been under assault as it is today. And chutzpah is really the best of the United States.
- [01:55]
Adam
It's when the Founding Fathers told the.
- [01:57]
Senator Ron Wyden
Brits to go fly a kite. It's when Abe Lincoln said that he was going to help those suffering from slavery. It's been the indispensable ingredient for doing good. And I call it the eternal good. And sometimes somebody warps it or misappropriates it or uses it to bully. Not mention any names, though.
- [02:30]
Jim Acosta
Don't worry, I'll do that.
- [02:32]
Senator Ron Wyden
But that's why I think today it's especially important. It's important in government. We could spend all our time talking about AI because I've introduced something called the Algorithmic Accountability Act. So we have some ways to protect the safety while we tap the great potential of it. But let's just have some fun today. And I'm looking out at all of you, and you're sitting in a seat very similar to what I sat in five hours or so ago on the floor of the United States Senate. So I'm here to get educated. And the gold standard of public service involvement in issues like health care, for example, and the ability of our people to get good paying jobs was Ted Kennedy. And he was wonderful. So let's honor him today. Thanks, everybody.
- [03:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and I do want to play off of a little bit what you were saying just a few moments ago. You mentioned something about kings, and traditionally this country having an issue with kings. There's a certain somebody, if we're going to carry on the practice here for a few moments, of not mentioning any names, who made a reference to himself as being a king as of late. That's a kind of chutzpah that I think you disagree with, you take issue with.
- [03:54]
Senator Ron Wyden
Yeah, that's misappropriating chutzpah. And what I can tell you is that some of these challenges are, are challenges I never thought I would see. For example, the assault on your privacy is just extraordinary. And there used to be things that protected you because the technology couldn't go there, but now we're seeing these Doge people. Everybody know what I'm talking about there? These Doge people are getting into the Fort Knox of your personal privacy. And one of the reasons why I wanted to come today is I want you to know I'm going to do everything I can to get the checks and balances there so you'll be protected.
- [04:49]
Jim Acosta
And I do want to dive into the book and your personal history and what led you to the moment that we're in right now. But just to. I'm a news guy, and so when I hear things coming from a senator, I want to keep going down that, that line of questioning. We've never seen anything like this before where the richest man in the world, a tech billionaire, a tech giant, has sudden access to various departments and agencies of the federal government, apparently has a whole slew of young tech whizzes going through these various departments and agencies and sort of hoovering up all of this personal data. Is there anything we can do about this?
- [05:26]
Senator Ron Wyden
Yes. And the reality is right now is the time to do it so they can't get their hooks in permanently on your information. Now, the courts, you've probably seen and there was another decision today. Are getting much more cautious about just taking all the rules off and giving Musk, in particular, everything he wants. And so what I'm trying to do is make sure that every single day we put some points on the board for freedom and protecting you from some of these abuses. For example, at the end of January, bleeding into February 1st, I blew the whistle on the fact that The Treasury Secretary, Mr. Bissent, had given to the Musk people the access to the treasury payments office. And that began to show people what the threat was. And by about six or seven days later, there were huge rallies all across the country. So there are plenty of examples where we're going to have to speak out, we're gonna have to demonstrate, we're gonna have to recognize that political change is rarely top down. It's almost always bottoms up. And this is exactly the kind of community in place that's been on the front lines of making those cases to elected officials.
- [06:50]
Adam
And why I wanted to come.
- [06:51]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and Senator, you and I were having a conversation about some of these issues before this program got started. And one of the things that we talked about is this sense that folks out there are a bit demoralized and in many cases, traumatized by what took place in the last election and what President Trump has been up to, along with Elon Musk, since coming into office. It feels. Feels for a lot of people, like something that is just out of their control. Can you speak to some of these feelings that a lot of Americans are having right now?
- [07:23]
Senator Ron Wyden
I have town hall meetings in all of my counties. I've had more than 1100 of them. People just get to ask their questions. I had one a week ago tomorrow. Take a guess. How many people were there? Did I hear a thousand? The paper said thousands. And just like Jim said, they're worried. And I think what worries them the most, and what sticks in my gut is that there don't seem to be any rules with these people. You know, we've always said in our.
- [08:04]
Adam
System of checks and balances, there were rules.
- [08:07]
Senator Ron Wyden
So that's why it's so important that we get involved and try to check it every which way with demonstrations, with rallies, with community meetings, with bringing your legislators out to hear why you're concerned. We've got to be involved at every level.
- [08:24]
Jim Acosta
This is not the time to sit back. There are some folks who say, well, just let Trump get himself into trouble here. Let's not stand in the way, that sort of thing. But you're right. You're seeing These events cropping up outside of state houses and in local communities all over the country. Now it is kind of coming to the surface.
- [08:42]
Senator Ron Wyden
This is too important to set it out. I'm willing to lose my voice for this cause. And the reality is we don't really know what Musk is going to do next. We have some ideas, but that's why we've got to be prepared. Courts, citizens, legislators pointing out abuses, moving to correct them. We've got to be active on all of these kind of fronts with a new sense of urgency. You know, Jim has this rich tradition of telling the truth to the American people. We're going to need a lot of truth telling. Journalists, legislators, all of us. So all of you can be whistleblowers and tell your elected officials when you see something and tell me.
- [09:27]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, well, my feeling about that is we need sort of a NATO alliance for the truth these days in this country. And that involves journalists, that involves lawmakers, that involves citizens, everybody banding together to make sure that we have a common sense of what the truth is in this country. Because if that's thrown away, there's just no hope for us.
- [09:48]
Senator Ron Wyden
And Senator, can I just mend it slightly because Jim is right. Let's add the word mobilization for truth.
- [09:54]
Jim Acosta
There you go.
- [09:55]
Senator Ron Wyden
So that we're working actively, all of us, to try to get the word out. And you all see things in your community already that suggest what some of these abuses are mobilize and get it to us.
- [10:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And one of the things I wanted to delve into in talking about the book, and I should note, for folks who have questions, we're going to do a Q and A session later on in the program. So you're going to get a chance to ask some questions here in this almost exact replica of the Senate chamber, which is just remarkable here at the.
- [10:22]
Senator Ron Wyden
Kennedy Institute right there near Adam.
- [10:25]
Jim Acosta
Is that right?
- [10:26]
Senator Ron Wyden
The nice woman with the shawl is wearing. That would probably be my seat in the Senate.
- [10:31]
Jim Acosta
That's one of the best seats in.
- [10:32]
Senator Ron Wyden
The House to the, I guess, left of Senator Schumer.
- [10:38]
Jim Acosta
Very good. Excellent. So you got good seats. Way to go. You got here nice and early. Good on you. And one of the things that we're grappling with these days is this intense polarization in our politics. But Senator, your career tells us that there is another way, that there is a way to work across party lines. You've done that on the issue of health care and on so many other issues. Can you talk about that? Because it sort of feels like A quaint notion now of people working together.
- [11:07]
Senator Ron Wyden
One of the rules that I have in the book, and it's called Ron's Rules of Chutzpah, is work with anybody who has a good idea and wants to help the community and the bigger state and national systems, because that's a luxury we've got to make sure we tap is everybody probably has some DNA in them. My rules tell them how they can kind of juice it up a little bit and use it well. But there's no substitute for not reaching out to people of any political party who have a good idea and say, let's work together on this.
- [11:52]
Jim Acosta
And healthcare reform is one of those areas. Can you talk about that? Because I remember I covered Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts. He brought forth Romneycare. That was seen by some as kind of a template for Obamacare. But you worked on some of the precursors to the Affordable Care act yourself, which really paved the way for that groundbreaking legislation.
- [12:14]
Senator Ron Wyden
And Jim, we're still fighting those battles. Probably around 3am I offered in Vote a Rama a legislative proposal, an amendment to say we're not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid or the Affordable Care act if the money is going to be used for more tax breaks for billionaires. What are our priorities? What are our priorities? And what happened in the House of Representatives this last week or so is particularly dangerous because the House leadership told the Energy and Commerce Committee, the big health committee there, that they had to raise almost a trillion dollars from the entitlement programs, which are the health programs. You can't get a trillion dollars without taking a big old whack to Medicaid and these health care programs. And that's why Jim's point about getting.
- [13:14]
Adam
People involved in mobilizing is so important right now.
- [13:17]
Senator Ron Wyden
Those votes in the House will probably take place in the next two weeks.
- [13:22]
Jim Acosta
And unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of bipartisanship these days. And one of the things that Trump has talked about and the House Republicans have talked about is what has been described as the big beautiful bill. I don't know if you've heard this phraseology, Senator, as you and I were discussing before this program started, it may be big, but it may not be so beautiful.
- [13:40]
Senator Ron Wyden
It sure as hell doesn't sound beautiful to me. And basically, in the Senate, they're trying to be really tricky. They're trying to keep the health cuts behind the curtain. They're not telling you anything about it. And this was part of the debate last night where every time we pointed out that there was going to be another tax break for people at the top. Who's going to be paid for by cutting the anti hunger programs and health programs. They said not in the bill. And we said wait a minute, it's in the House legislative proposal. If you're going to cut a trillion dollars, you definitely have to go for health. And that's going to come here. Particularly if you're going to get the two together for the so called beautiful bill.
- [14:25]
Adam
One.
- [14:26]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And I guess my question, and maybe it's a rhetorical one and the audience may agree with me on this, is I don't know if anybody voted for less healthcare in the last election. Did anybody vote for less health care in the last election? There's been a lot of talk of what this election was about. I don't recall anybody saying, you know what? I'd like to have less healthcare.
- [14:46]
Senator Ron Wyden
Yeah, the American people didn't vote for less health care. They didn't vote for more insurance rip offs. They didn't vote for more middlemen in American health care. You ever heard of these people? PBMs, the Pharmaceutical Benefit managers, they're skimming off the cream.
- [15:03]
Adam
They didn't vote for these kinds of things.
- [15:05]
Senator Ron Wyden
And that's what we're going to have to do in these upcoming debates is show the American people what the choices are. And we offered a bunch of amendments last night saying that if you made a very, very substantial sum, you know.
- [15:20]
Adam
Hundreds of millions of dollars, you weren't.
- [15:21]
Senator Ron Wyden
Going to get more tax breaks. And the Republicans basically just kind of ducked and bobbed and weaved and we're going to keep pinning everybody down so that you'll be able to see who's.
- [15:32]
Adam
With the accountability and transparency from knowing.
- [15:35]
Senator Ron Wyden
How people vote, who's actually representing your interests.
- [15:45]
Jim Acosta
And where do Democrats stand in all of this? In terms of the numbers we know over in the House, there's a very small majority in the Senate, there's a small but sizable enough majority where if the legislation pertains to the budget, they just need 50 votes essentially correct, to get things passed.
- [16:05]
Senator Ron Wyden
We're going to win this in the communities, in the hearings, in the opportunities we'll have in the media to make the case of how skewed these priorities are.
- [16:20]
Adam
What Jim and I just said in the last round of discussion is this.
- [16:24]
Senator Ron Wyden
Is not what the American people voted for. The American people did not vote to have a bunch of 22 year old kids ransack their personal data.
- [16:36]
Adam
No way. So that's why we've got to get the Word out about what's really going on so that people will say, hey, we want government that checks that and keeps the balances and checks that the founding fathers thought was wise.
- [16:48]
Jim Acosta
And one of the other aspects of what we've been seeing over the last few weeks that I think has caused a lot of anxiety would be some of these cabinet picks. We just saw Kash Patel become the FBI director yesterday. This is somebody who has said, for all intents and purposes, that he has an enemies list. I think he has called it a list of deep state actors that he would like to see rooted out of the government, but it was essentially interpreted as having an enemies list. You have RFK Jr. Over at HHS, somebody who has been pretty anti vax over the last, what, 25 years or so. That's caused great anxiety, especially with bird flu, raising a lot of questions right now. Tulsi Gabbard over at the Director of National Intelligence. This is somebody who has espoused talking points that come right out of the Kremlin and Bashar Al Assad out of Syria. When you look at this cabinet, some of these, some of these folks that Trump is putting in very important places, what concerns you?
- [17:45]
Senator Ron Wyden
Well, I've always felt that health care.
- [17:47]
Adam
Is the most important issue, folks, because if you and your loved ones don't have your health, everything else goes by the board.
- [17:55]
Senator Ron Wyden
And I thought the Kennedy nomination, and I was the point person in the.
- [18:00]
Adam
Finance Committee, where we cast the votes.
- [18:02]
Senator Ron Wyden
Was particularly painful because the Kennedy name, particularly in this community, is revered. And I can't believe that Ted Kennedy would have answered questions about vaccinations the way his family member did, because we asked particularly, where do you stand? And he said, I'm all for vaccinations. My kid got vaccinated. But then my staff that always does the homework, found that he had actually said not very long ago that if he could do it all over again, his kids wouldn't get vaccinated. So that's what we've got to do now because I think that there is a reason to worry about what's going to go on at the Health and Human Services Department. I hope I'm wrong.
- [18:51]
Adam
I'd love to be proven wrong.
- [18:53]
Senator Ron Wyden
I don't think I will be. And that's why I think everybody needs to be involved in pointing out why. What kinds of things go on when you're trying to get good, affordable health care. I mean, we're gonna spend something like $4 trillion this year on healthcare. There are 330 million of us for the amount of money we're spending, we can get affordable, good, quality care. But it's gotta focus on you and not insurance companies and middlemen and these ripoff artists.
- [19:21]
Jim Acosta
And there's a slew of workers at HHS who are getting pink slips right now. You're also seeing big cuts at the National Institutes of Health, National Science foundation, very important places where some of our top experts are battling things like bird flu and Covid and so on. And it almost feels like a war against expertise. You know, we don't want experts at these agencies. People like Dr. Anthony Fauci, who I know well and has covered a lot over the years. And the way he was treated by folks on the right is just downright ugly, I thought. And I just wonder what your thoughts are and what's happening to our top public health experts.
- [20:01]
Senator Ron Wyden
Jim's point is very good. And it also kind of takes you.
- [20:05]
Adam
To another part of the strategy we're trying to use.
- [20:08]
Senator Ron Wyden
When you talk about healthcare research, Republicans.
- [20:12]
Adam
Get sick just like Democrats, folks.
- [20:15]
Senator Ron Wyden
And there are Republican United States senators who are every bit as worried about healthcare research as I am, because they've got constituents at home who work in health research facilities who depend on those health researchers to get through their health care challenges.
- [20:33]
Adam
And I'm spending a lot of my.
- [20:35]
Senator Ron Wyden
Time talking to Republican senators about health research, talking to farmers about tariffs, talking to veterans about the cutback in the number of people who's going to going to serve the veterans. These are conversations that all of you can have with friends and neighbors, because if you know somebody who's a veteran today In a state 1,000 miles from here, say, don't you think we ought.
- [21:03]
Adam
To all chip in and make sure that the vets can get good care?
- [21:06]
Senator Ron Wyden
How about joining me?
- [21:07]
Adam
I'm supporting this mobilization to protect veterans benefits, which is the kind of thing we've been starting.
- [21:13]
Senator Ron Wyden
And I think we need to reach out very aggressively in addition to talking to people who are going to agree with us more in terms of Mr. Fauci, Dr. Fauci, or someone else.
- [21:24]
Jim Acosta
Well, and again, going back to who voted for this, I don't know if anybody voted to deny health care to veterans, to deny services to veterans, and yet you're seeing the people who work at the Veterans Affairs Department also on the chopping block and so on. And when you talk about Republican senators and some of the concerns that they express, one of the things that we've seen in the last several weeks is they're pretty much marching in lockstep with Donald Trump right now, they're not really getting in his way a whole lot. Susan Collins a little bit here, Lisa Murkowski a little bit there. But by and large, we're not really seeing Republican senators standing up and saying, you know, no, Mr. President, I don't agree with you on this. Is that a concern for you?
- [22:06]
Senator Ron Wyden
It's a big concern. And one of the reasons I'm watching.
- [22:09]
Adam
Some of the town hall meetings that the Republicans are having is in the.
- [22:13]
Senator Ron Wyden
Last few days, it's beginning to change. I mean, they're going to their town hall meetings, veterans are standing up, people who work in health research areas, people.
- [22:23]
Adam
Who run small businesses, they're telling stories.
- [22:26]
Senator Ron Wyden
People in the crowd are with the person who's blowing the whistle and they.
- [22:30]
Adam
Start kind of, well, let me look.
- [22:32]
Senator Ron Wyden
At it again and let me try.
- [22:34]
Adam
And get my hands around it.
- [22:36]
Senator Ron Wyden
I mean, the political system moves, you know, when you shove it, objects at rest in America pretty much stay at rest. We know that, so we gotta shove it. And I'm kind of a pretty good example of that.
- [22:48]
Jim Acosta
That was one of your lessons from your book.
- [22:49]
Senator Ron Wyden
I talk about the fact I was a 29 year old kid, all I.
- [22:53]
Adam
Wanted to do was to play in the NBA.
- [22:55]
Senator Ron Wyden
I got a college scholarship.
- [22:57]
Adam
I had never run for anything, but.
- [23:00]
Senator Ron Wyden
I volunteered for a great former senator, one of the two voted against the Vietnam War. And he assigned me to work with the elderly.
- [23:11]
Adam
And I said, senator Morris, I don't even know how many digits there are in a Social Security number.
- [23:17]
Senator Ron Wyden
How would I know anything? I'm just a 26 year old kid.
- [23:21]
Adam
And he said, ron, let me tell you something. This is a way to do some good.
- [23:24]
Senator Ron Wyden
You can help some people.
- [23:26]
Adam
And I did it.
- [23:27]
Senator Ron Wyden
And I was one of the youngest people Oregon had ever elected to Congress.
- [23:31]
Adam
And it wouldn't have happened without the chutzpah of all those senior citizens saying as they did to me. And this is what really clinched it when I was thinking about doing it, she said, just remember, Ron, none of us can say no to our grandmother.
- [23:46]
Jim Acosta
Because you wanted to be an NBA star, you wanted to be a basketball player.
- [23:50]
Adam
I went to Cowd Santa Barbara on a basketball scholarship.
- [23:53]
Senator Ron Wyden
But if you ever come to Washington.
- [23:56]
Adam
You'Ll see the scholarship offer I got.
- [23:58]
Senator Ron Wyden
From Gonzaga, which is a big basketball powerhouse.
- [24:03]
Adam
And if I had gone to Gonzaga, I would have sat on the bench even more than I did at Cowd Santa Barbara. But the world would have known for.
- [24:13]
Senator Ron Wyden
All time that a Jewish kid could play with the Jesuits.
- [24:23]
Jim Acosta
But you ended up going into politics yes. You ended up going into politics. And what do you see? Because you talked about the legend that was Senator Ted Kennedy. What have you seen in terms of the change in the culture in the Senate over the years? How is it today versus when you got to the Senate?
- [24:43]
Senator Ron Wyden
Well, it's much more polarized, and that's.
- [24:46]
Adam
Because our society is. And there are a lot of factors that drive it. I happen to think social media is one of the factors that polarizes people.
- [24:55]
Senator Ron Wyden
But I still think you can get.
- [24:57]
Adam
People together around common interests. I mean, literally, this issue of veterans may be one of the transformative decisions that's made with respect to the Trump.
- [25:09]
Senator Ron Wyden
Program, because he pretended all through the.
- [25:12]
Adam
Campaign that he was the hero of the veterans.
- [25:13]
Senator Ron Wyden
And based on the amount of concern.
- [25:16]
Adam
I heard at my town hall meetings last weekend, they're not with these practices because veterans care in much of the.
- [25:23]
Senator Ron Wyden
United States is good if you can get it, if you can get through.
- [25:29]
Adam
The lines and the red tape and the bureaucracy and the shortage of funds. And that's why the Trump Musk proposal is so threatening to those folks, because I think if they continue to cut those programs, lots of people are going to say, I'm not going to get care and time to have the quality of life I need.
- [25:46]
Jim Acosta
And we talk so much about, well, maybe people didn't vote for this, maybe people didn't vote for that in the last election. I'll just ask a general question. Why do you think things went down the way they did in the November election? What are your thoughts on that?
- [25:58]
Senator Ron Wyden
I think, and I've tried to articulate.
- [26:01]
Adam
This in a kind of way that.
- [26:05]
Senator Ron Wyden
Reasons to me in the right direction. I think people felt that Donald Trump would break the door down in order to help people, and they might disagree with what he was going to do, but he came off tough and strong.
- [26:23]
Adam
And all of those kinds of things.
- [26:26]
Senator Ron Wyden
You know, big and all the rest. And if you're looking to have a simple answer, those kinds of things sometimes go over. I still think we're going to win if we talk about things that matter most to people. For example, if you come to one.
- [26:47]
Adam
Of my town hall meetings, the issues people bring up almost always are the.
- [26:52]
Senator Ron Wyden
Second word is bill. It might be medical bill, it might be rent bill, it might be electric bill.
- [27:01]
Adam
Now, what did Trump say in the campaign?
- [27:04]
Senator Ron Wyden
He said he was going to lower your grocery bill. You remember that you'd be able to walk into your grocery. So when I go out there, I say, haven't seen groceries go down any, but I've sure seen a lot of problems with my privacy and people going.
- [27:20]
Adam
To look at my kids addresses and the likes.
- [27:23]
Senator Ron Wyden
So I think that there are ways.
- [27:25]
Adam
For us to mobilize around these issues.
- [27:28]
Senator Ron Wyden
But we got to do it now.
- [27:30]
Adam
Because the longer this goes and the more that Musk in particular medals in all these areas and stations all these.
- [27:37]
Senator Ron Wyden
People in there, the more we'll have to root out as we go.
- [27:43]
Jim Acosta
And you bring up a really salient point, Senator, in that I think a lot of people are concerned about affordability or right now we use the word inflation a lot. But it seems to me to be an affordability issue. I mean, I have a daughter in college right now it is becoming increasingly unaffordable. I have a dad who's going into assisted living that has become increasingly unaffordable. Not to mention what's happening at the grocery stores and at the gas station. What can be done about that? Just that bread and butter type of issue of affordability.
- [28:13]
Senator Ron Wyden
I think. I think the combination of saying we're going to focus on your needs rather than the billionaires needs.
- [28:20]
Adam
I mean, remember if Trump's trade policies caused the problems, I think we're going.
- [28:25]
Senator Ron Wyden
To see with all these tariffs, which.
- [28:28]
Adam
Means that the small business person and.
- [28:30]
Senator Ron Wyden
The individual get hurt.
- [28:32]
Adam
Donald Trump doesn't get hurt. Donald Trump and Musk don't get hurt at all by any tariff.
- [28:37]
Senator Ron Wyden
But you get hurt because your bills go up now.
- [28:41]
Adam
And also it sets off inflation, so.
- [28:43]
Senator Ron Wyden
Your bills go up even more as.
- [28:45]
Adam
A result of it.
- [28:45]
Senator Ron Wyden
So I think part of this is, you know, Bill Clinton, whatever you thought.
- [28:50]
Adam
About Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton was good at explaining stuff.
- [28:54]
Senator Ron Wyden
And whenever I was with him, he said he would always say how's it.
- [28:58]
Adam
Going in the Senate?
- [28:59]
Senator Ron Wyden
And I'd tell him we're working on this.
- [29:00]
Adam
He goes, just make sure you start splaining. And that's the kind of thing we're talking about today.
- [29:06]
Senator Ron Wyden
And Jim asked why I thought Trump won, Trump really for the people who.
- [29:12]
Adam
He was trying to get, because he'd got some from the first term. He was working particularly in the Hispanic community and others to get new people.
- [29:22]
Senator Ron Wyden
He told them, I'm going to break.
- [29:24]
Adam
Down the door for you. I mean, you see it in all those interviews.
- [29:28]
Senator Ron Wyden
He said it's going to be great, it's going to be this, it's going to be that. He has no intention of doing it. Did you see yesterday he said he.
- [29:34]
Adam
Was going to send everybody a $5,000 check. Musk, they're not going to be able to send people, $5,000 checks, and our friend the groundskeeper and the doorkeeper and.
- [29:45]
Senator Ron Wyden
The timekeeper is pointing at her watch.
- [29:47]
Adam
So.
- [29:49]
Jim Acosta
Well, I'm waiting for my check, but I was always under the impression that Donald Trump didn't pay his bills.
- [29:57]
Senator Ron Wyden
He doesn't when it came to his.
- [29:59]
Jim Acosta
Contractors and so on. So maybe we should not hold out too much hope for that kind of check to come in the mail. But I do want to ask you because I think one of the frustrations that some folks have is they want to know, how does he get away with saying, well, I'm going to start bringing down prices on day one and then he doesn't do it and I'm going to end the war in Ukraine on day one and he doesn't do it. Is it because guys like us, like myself aren't calling him out enough? I mean, I feel like I do, but I think my track record.
- [30:34]
Adam
Maybe.
- [30:35]
Jim Acosta
I'll take myself out of that question. But what's going on there? Why is that? Why does he get away with all this stuff?
- [30:41]
Senator Ron Wyden
He gets away with it because more than any other public figure I've seen, he is in.
- [30:50]
Adam
Do you realize from the time you get up in the morning till the.
- [30:54]
Senator Ron Wyden
Time you go to bed at night.
- [30:56]
Adam
He'S talking to you about things he claims that he's going to do and he's not going to do. You think you're going to get this big Social Security break or breaks on tips, for example, he's telling everybody, I'm going to take care of your taxes on your tips. That's almost impossible to do quickly because.
- [31:14]
Senator Ron Wyden
You have to alter the tax tables.
- [31:16]
Adam
And, and all this kind of thing. But he is persistent. He is very loud.
- [31:22]
Senator Ron Wyden
He's been a salesperson.
- [31:25]
Adam
You know, I'm not a salesperson. I'm a kid who wanted to play in the NBA.
- [31:30]
Senator Ron Wyden
But I think we can compete because.
- [31:31]
Adam
We'Re right on the issues and there's.
- [31:34]
Senator Ron Wyden
More of us than there are of them.
- [31:36]
Adam
And last night I could see the faces of those Republican senators when we kept saying we're not gonna cut Medicare and Medicaid and the child health programs in order to give more breaks to the billionaires.
- [31:49]
Senator Ron Wyden
They did not want to talk about it directly.
- [31:51]
Adam
They wanted to say, well, we're not doing it. And that was why I said, just understand that the health care cuts are hiding behind the curtain. They're going to do everything they can to cut Medicaid because it's a big number.
- [32:03]
Senator Ron Wyden
The House is going to start it.
- [32:05]
Adam
And the Senators are behind that curtain waiting to move.
- [32:08]
Jim Acosta
How are we doing on time? Two minutes. And one of the questions that I had, and I'm glad I got the two minute queue because I wanted to slide this one in here towards the end. And you and I talked about this before this program got started, is the Trump effect on our culture. And I wonder if you could talk about that, because I'm very concerned, especially with the young people today, seeing this example of somebody who is a bully who doesn't mind going after people. You and I talked about the reporter with the New York Times that he mocked back in 2016 campaign.
- [32:44]
Senator Ron Wyden
You know, this picture.
- [32:45]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [32:46]
Senator Ron Wyden
In the first campaign, Donald Trump mocked a journalist who was disabled and, you know, did this very grotesque imitation. And I remember my wife and I are older parents and I asked my kids, you know, what they thought of this, and particularly the 17 year old said, really disgusting. Why don't you do something about it? Well, you can't very easily pass a law when somebody does something disgusting, but you sure as heck can vote against it. You sure as hell can tell your neighbors that you want a president who represents a better role model for your.
- [33:34]
Adam
Kids and your grandkids and not somebody they have to be worried about turning on the TV and seeing stuff. So Jim's point is a good one.
- [33:43]
Senator Ron Wyden
Not every challenge means the law or something like that. But setting an example, particularly for kids, important. And I think that chutzpah is doing good and you warp it when you're.
- [33:58]
Adam
A bully and do the kind of.
- [34:00]
Senator Ron Wyden
Thing I just described.
- [34:01]
Jim Acosta
Right. There's a difference between chutzpah and being a bully. Yeah. All right. Well, we've reached the point in this conversation, and I'd like to think I'm a good enough reporter who can think of all the right questions to ask. But I'm humble enough to know that because my Irish mother raised me this way, that I haven't thought of all the best questions. So if anybody has a question. Yes, sir. Over here. Do we need a microphone for him? Hold on. We're going to bring you a microphone. This is going to be Oprah style here.
- [34:29]
Senator Ron Wyden
Hi, Senator.
- [34:30]
D
Moving forward, you're going to need four noes.
- [34:32]
Senator Ron Wyden
You've got sort of three right now. Murkowski, Collins and McConnell. Who's your target for number four? Well, it depends on the issue. In other words, we may be able to pick somebody up with an interest in veterans who wouldn't necessarily be there.
- [34:50]
Adam
On the other issues.
- [34:51]
Senator Ron Wyden
But I think that once you start this grassroots juggernaut, you begin to win even before the votes, because they have.
- [35:02]
Adam
To modify the proposal.
- [35:04]
Senator Ron Wyden
They have to take out the really terrible stuff.
- [35:07]
Adam
They change what they're saying. They have to stop the, you know, trying to scoop up everybody's data.
- [35:12]
Senator Ron Wyden
So, yes, you know, we want to get each and every one of those.
- [35:16]
Adam
Votes because that's key to changing things. We also want to force as many changes as we can as the debate goes along, because they can see they're.
- [35:25]
Senator Ron Wyden
Getting a lot of flack from people.
- [35:27]
Adam
At meetings and the like.
- [35:31]
Senator Ron Wyden
What would be the issue? You know, by the way, it doesn't.
- [35:36]
Adam
Help our cause to name people.
- [35:38]
Jim Acosta
I was just gonna say it at community.
- [35:40]
Senator Ron Wyden
Community meetings, but it depends on the issue.
- [35:44]
Jim Acosta
But Senator McConnell, I think, has surprised some people, and. And I know there are folks who are going to say, oh, goodness, a little too, little too late, because of Merrick Garland, because of Roe versus Reed.
- [35:55]
Senator Ron Wyden
Chutzpah. Take any. Take anybody you can get when you can get them, if it's for the right cause.
- [35:59]
Jim Acosta
There you go. All right, who's next? Yes, ma'am. Oh, hold on. Wait for this young man right here.
- [36:06]
E
Thank you. I'm wondering if you can speak to the administration's embrace of President Putin and all things not American. I know there's a complicated history there, and I think, you know, we've done a little reading on it. It goes back to, I think, the 80s when they first met. Can you speak a little bit to that?
- [36:33]
Senator Ron Wyden
It's horrifying, and I don't think it's that complicated. In fact, I think it's in all the history books that the words with respect to Ukraine is Russia invasion. I mean, this is not a complicated issue. And I thought one of the most ominous parts of last night was when.
- [36:54]
Adam
Senator Jack Reed of Rhode island, decorated military hero, offered legislation to ensure that there would be more support for Ukraine. And we weren't allied with Russia, and not a single Republican senator said that they would support Senator Reid.
- [37:12]
Senator Ron Wyden
And what was really striking about it.
- [37:15]
Adam
They almost all said the same thing.
- [37:16]
Senator Ron Wyden
They said, this is really not the time and place to talk about it.
- [37:22]
Adam
And I went to myself, I said.
- [37:23]
Senator Ron Wyden
Are you kidding me? What is a more relevant time and place than to talk about the Russian influence on the floor of the United States Senate that we just saw this week? This is one of the most important times and places that we've seen with respect to Russia in some time.
- [37:41]
Adam
So we're gonna.
- [37:42]
Jim Acosta
And he blamed Ukraine.
- [37:44]
Senator Ron Wyden
Yeah.
- [37:44]
Jim Acosta
For the war.
- [37:45]
Senator Ron Wyden
Correct.
- [37:45]
Jim Acosta
For being invaded.
- [37:46]
Senator Ron Wyden
Correct.
- [37:47]
Jim Acosta
How does that make sense?
- [37:49]
Adam
I thought it was nauseating myself.
- [37:52]
Senator Ron Wyden
I mean, the run up to it because it was so brazen. I mean, he went from taking a balanced approach to making up history, making it up.
- [38:03]
Adam
And that's why I mentioned, if you look at some of the reference books.
- [38:08]
Senator Ron Wyden
It says Russia invasion.
- [38:09]
Adam
It doesn't have the ambiguity of, you know, something went on 100 years ago.
- [38:13]
Jim Acosta
And that's where it's important, I think, to stand firm for the truth. And I think that is a clear example right there where he's just trying to turn the truth upside down and inside out. The gentleman way in the back there, I don't want to neglect folks in the back. This gentleman in the back might have a good question.
- [38:31]
D
Thanks, Jim. Senator, if you could just speak to your Republican colleagues, I find it hard to believe that a majority of them voted for these nominees who are completely incompetent in a lot of ways. Is it fear? What is it that's motivating them to betray a lot of their own stated values?
- [38:56]
Senator Ron Wyden
A lot. It's a great question. A lot of us in the Senate.
- [39:01]
Adam
Feel that on several of these nominees, if it had been a closed door.
- [39:07]
Senator Ron Wyden
Vote, that nominee would get 20 votes, not over 50 votes. And clearly, I mean, you all saw the stories about how Trump pressured so.
- [39:20]
Adam
Many of the Republican senators and said, well, you don't want to oppose me and I could run a primary. And all these people were basically put into the kind of mixing bowl to be potential targets for primaries. And that's why we've got a. This is not what the majority wants. The majority are not saying that they want these policies that are so harmful.
- [39:46]
Senator Ron Wyden
But it's certainly an obstacle when Trump.
- [39:49]
Adam
Basically makes it clear to them. I mean, I saw some of my colleagues, again, I'm not mentioning them because I don't want to make it harder for us to win them over.
- [39:58]
Senator Ron Wyden
But they were with us and they went the other direction when Trump basically.
- [40:03]
Adam
Pulled out all the social media machine. And now, of course, they're all faced with this one sentence.
- [40:11]
Senator Ron Wyden
Musk has the biggest checkbook and he's.
- [40:14]
Adam
Going to fund my opponent.
- [40:15]
Jim Acosta
And it reminds me of one of my favorite books, President Kennedy's book, Profiles and Courage, which dealt in large part with lawmakers who put their careers on the line, sometimes sacrificed their careers. People like Liz Cheney, and we just don't see as much of that. We just don't see as much of that. Liz Cheney getting a round of applause at the Kennedy Institute. I'll just point that out to everybody.
- [40:42]
Senator Ron Wyden
I think you just made the point we want people to stick their neck out. That was the point of this book, is that I wanted to try to see if I could push something that encouraged guts and grit and taking on the odds. And I think that another way of.
- [41:02]
Adam
Saying it is if you look at.
- [41:04]
Senator Ron Wyden
A big chunk of the best moments in American history, people had courage, they took on the odds, they did something.
- [41:12]
Adam
That made a big difference for America.
- [41:14]
Senator Ron Wyden
And they had a great life at the same time.
- [41:16]
Adam
And that's what we want to encourage. That's what I'm trying to do in the book. And Jim said it better than I do.
- [41:21]
Jim Acosta
No, no, not at all. Yes. Yes, ma'am. You in the back, the plaid laser, and I'll come over here. I'm sorry. Yes, you're right. You're right, you're right. That's my fault.
- [41:31]
F
That's me over there first.
- [41:33]
Adam
No, you, ma'am.
- [41:33]
Jim Acosta
You go ahead.
- [41:34]
F
Thank you. Thank you, Jim Acosta, and thank you, Senator Wyden, for coming. And I really want to use this opportunity to say to Senator Wyden, thank you for your service, your progressive views, even before the current challenges. I have observed you in media and felt protected and defended by you. So thank you so much for your service. The question I have for you, just very quickly, is that Senator Kennedy, as you may know, was a strong advocate for civil rights. He may have been responsible for giving us our first black president today. DEI manifests civil rights is under assault. What do you have for us?
- [42:24]
Senator Ron Wyden
I think it's important.
- [42:26]
F
Thank you.
- [42:27]
Senator Ron Wyden
Point with respect to civil rights and personal rights is, of course, the Constitution talks about civil rights and equal protection.
- [42:39]
Adam
Of laws and the like, and we ought to be looking for ways to.
- [42:42]
Senator Ron Wyden
Strengthen them in terms of many of the personal liberties. I was the first senator to support marriage equality, and I said, if you don't like gay marriage, don't get one. So civil rights, and particularly the rule of law, major court cases that opened up more fair treatment still ways to go, and then private protection for personal decisions. I think those are the two principles that move you ahead the fastest.
- [43:18]
Jim Acosta
All right. And I neglected this side of the room. Yes, ma'am.
- [43:21]
G
One question on Medicare. Right now, we have Medicare and we have Medicare Advantage. My fear is they're going to require everyone to go Medicare Advantage. Is that. Is there any rumblings about. Believe me, because we all know what that is. It's called deny, deny, deny, go to the health club. But if anything's really wrong with you, deny, deny, deny. We don't want to go that route. So are there any rumblings of that being discussed? Please squash it if you can.
- [43:54]
Senator Ron Wyden
Could all of you hear the question? It was about Medicare Advantage. And look, this is not complicated. There are powerful economic interests, and I've.
- [44:08]
Adam
Seen this since my days as director.
- [44:10]
Senator Ron Wyden
Of the great Panthers who want one thing above all else, which is to privatize health care programs and other needs for seniors.
- [44:20]
Adam
And as long as I'm the senior.
- [44:22]
Senator Ron Wyden
Democrat in the Senate Finance Committee, I will fight that every single day I am in public service. And why is it so important?
- [44:34]
Adam
We all remember when Lyndon Johnson did.
- [44:36]
Senator Ron Wyden
So much to give us an alternative from poor farms and the like, we knew that there were some issues that we thought had to be elevated as national priorities, as national protections, much like the very good point that was just.
- [44:52]
Adam
Made with respect to civil rights.
- [44:54]
Senator Ron Wyden
These are core values, and we do not want to turn back the clock. Medicare Advantage certainly provided choices. We've been stiffening the consumer protection standards and the like. There's still a long way to go with that. But I don't want anybody to be.
- [45:12]
Adam
Mistaken about the real agenda here.
- [45:14]
Senator Ron Wyden
And the real agenda is trying to privatize. And on my watch, we'll fight that every single day.
- [45:23]
Jim Acosta
And all the way over here, this nice lady right over here.
- [45:27]
Senator Ron Wyden
Do you guys know what the big challenge has been? This camera apparently works better than this camera. So everybody is trying to juggle the cameras, and I don't want people to think that this is anything personal.
- [45:40]
Jim Acosta
Yes, this. This nice lady. You got it.
- [45:42]
H
And actually it is for you. So thank you, sir. And this actually is about you. But how could the man who attacked the government on January 6 and killed police officers, how could he be the aggrieved party? And why does the media want to market that so much for him? Will that ever stop?
- [46:02]
Jim Acosta
Is that for me or is that for the senator? Well, I will tell you, I was at the White House on January 6th, and it was like a ghost town. And if you want any indication as to whether or not they felt they had done the right thing on January 6, you could have been there next to me on that day. They were nowhere to be found. They were running for the hills. And I remember talking to White House officials that day who were resigning, you know, in protest, who worked for Trump, people like Stephanie Grisham, people like Sarah Matthews. And they themselves felt a sense of shame that had just dawned on them at that moment. And I will tell you that I was just asked about this the other day. What is the one question that you would like to ask Donald Trump. And I said that question pertains to January 6th. And it goes like this, sir, do you have any remorse, any regret whatsoever for what took place on that day and the way you tried to overturn a free and fair election in this country in a fashion that resulted in people being brutally beaten and killed? And I just, if I had my chance to stand up at a news conference, I would ask him that, because I don't think to this day he feels one ounce of remorse. And I'm sorry to tell you, I believe in telling it to you straight. That is, to me, the kind of quality you don't want in a president of the United States of America. And I'll let Senator Wyden.
- [47:44]
Senator Ron Wyden
Incredibly important question. Jim's point is spot on. I will tell you, listening to Republican senators, I've seen a little bit of a ray of hope on this issue as it relates to some of the implications, because after Trump pardoned some of those people who had brutally attacked police, a number of my Republican Senate colleagues said, we don't agree. They said it specifically. Now, they didn't say we're going to.
- [48:21]
Adam
Hold rallies and, and that kind of.
- [48:23]
Senator Ron Wyden
Thing, but they said, we don't agree. So I thought about it, and I.
- [48:28]
Adam
Kind of sort of sent it to the storage to keep on it. But it's an indication that sometimes some.
- [48:39]
Senator Ron Wyden
Of these actions are so indefensible that you start to see the ice breaking. And I saw at least four Republican.
- [48:52]
Adam
United States senators saying when they saw.
- [48:57]
Senator Ron Wyden
That people were pardoned who had attacked police on January 6, say that they didn't agree with that. So that's part of why we've got to do all our work to say, appreciate that we can't use that to move on and address some of these other issues, too.
- [49:16]
Jim Acosta
And I, and I would be remiss if I didn't say we thank people like Mike Fanon, people like Harry Dunn, people like Aquilina G, police officers who defended the Capitol. No matter what happens in any election, they'll always be heroes. All of those officers that day up there in the balcony, we don't want to leave you out this, these folks right here, they're waving the most. So if you wave the most, you get the question. Take it from me. Take it from me.
- [49:44]
Senator Ron Wyden
Yeah.
- [49:44]
I
Thank you.
- [49:44]
Senator Ron Wyden
But don't jump off the balcony. I saw your holding.
- [49:49]
I
I'm challenged. I'm vertically challenged here. Thank you so much for being here, Senator. My big question is this. I appreciate everything you've said about grassroots, you know, activism and your all nighter on the floor of the Senate. But what is the action backstop that's going to bring all of this to a halt and start to reverse course? Is it in the courts? I mean, is Congress essentially not useless to be able to put any stop to this because they're just going to keep going? Okay, essentially. And I appreciate everything you're doing and others are doing, but I don't see any way to stop them, even on the budget. So where are you looking for timely action that's going to make a difference?
- [50:37]
Senator Ron Wyden
So it's an incredibly important point and a great many Americans would put it just the way you have. And my view is it's going to have to be all of the above. We are going to have to create enough of a cumulative opposition on these issues. Like one of the things I'm working on this weekend is these privacy issues because I think that's something that is really going to tick off a lot of people because it's their kids and their personal liberties and who might be.
- [51:17]
Adam
Tracking their kids and the like.
- [51:18]
Senator Ron Wyden
I mean, it's not going to be any one single thing, but it's going to be all of the above. And I'm trying to make sure that every day I pushed that rock up the hill some.
- [51:31]
Adam
And by the way, there's something in.
- [51:32]
Senator Ron Wyden
The chutzpah book that talks about pushing rocks up the hill and you got to push big ones up and you got to stay at it. But your question is something I think about every single day. Not a day has gone by since we watched Elon Musk go with this program that I haven't been thinking about. Your question, and that's my best possible answer, is we all need to be involved in all of it cumulatively and push back.
- [52:00]
Jim Acosta
And there's a nice lady all the way in the back there. I'm going to give her the last question. And I know I've upset some folks because we're not going to get to everybody, but she also was waving a lot.
- [52:09]
J
So I think, you know, a lot of what Trump does is he, you know, that shell game you have the you keep people's mind on one thing while you're doing something else in the background. How are we dealing with issues like him trying to take over the waterway between Greenland? You know, he has a plan to lease offshore oil sites. There's 26 sites that surround the United States that he wants to put out for lease for oil leaks. And I think Russia may be one of the places that would be the first to jump on those leases. And why can't we? I mean, it's all about money. We all know it's all about money. Why can't we seize Musk's assets and put him in jail for the crimes he's committed?
- [53:05]
Jim Acosta
That's a heck of a last question, Senator.
- [53:08]
Senator Ron Wyden
Where. Where it was? Where is this interesting woman? Look, I want to rebuild support in America for the rule of law and the checks and balances that kept this country going for 200 years. And I am going to spotlight every single day these practices that are so flagrantly abusive. I think the question that was asked by that nice person in the back is another. It's another side of the coin you're talking about. Donald Trump is not going to say I resign because of some bad poll. Okay? He's not. And we know that it's a while till the next election comes about. But this time we've got a very immediate threat every single day. Certainly in the privacy issues alone, we have a major threat. And I've been training to push back on that. I'm called the privacy hawk of the United States Senate. That was before anybody was talking about Elon Musk. And I don't have all the answers, but I've been able to recruit some of the best people, the LeBron James of privacy rights. And we're going to be pushing back. And we're going to push back, folks. We are going to push back and stay at it day in and day out, because people like yourselves, hard working folks, people with families, retired, people who want this country to be what it's always been at its best, a great idea of the Founding Fathers with checks and balances. I want you to know I'm going to be working with all of you every day. Remember what I've heard here today, every day. And we're going to stay at it, so we protect the rights of all Americans and not just a handful of Musk people at the top. Thank you.
- [55:09]
Jim Acosta
All right, spoken with true chutzpah. Senator Wyden, thank you very much for your time. To the great folks here at the Kennedy Institute, thank you very much. And thanks to all of you for a great discussion this afternoon.
- [55:25]
Senator Ron Wyden
Jeff Acosta, big applause.
- [55:31]
Jim Acosta
And Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, the great state of Oregon, thanks, everybody. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it.