The Jim Acosta Show

Episode: WH Chief of Staff Tells All with Rick Wilson and Trump's Lies of the Year with Glenn Kessler
Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Jim Acosta
Guests: Rick Wilson (Lincoln Square), Glenn Kessler (Washington Post/Substack)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Jim Acosta Show is a blistering, in-depth look at dysfunction, scandal, and deception within the Trump White House. Jim is joined by veteran political strategist Rick Wilson to dissect explosive revelations from White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles’s candid Vanity Fair interview, which throws open the curtains on Trump's second term and its inner chaos. Glenn Kessler, fact-checking maestro, arrives later to break down the top 10 "Lies of the Year" by Donald Trump in 2025, offering insight into not just what was said, but how persistent, shameless falsehoods have become central to presidential politics.

Tone: Direct, biting, sharp, but laced with dark humor and urgency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Susie Wiles "Tells All" – The Chief of Staff's Explosive Vanity Fair Interview

[00:06–14:51]

• Unprecedented Candidness: Susie Wiles (Trump's Chief of Staff) sat for 11 hours of on-tape interviews with Chris Whipple for Vanity Fair, revealing unvarnished truths about the White House’s inner workings.
  • Rick Wilson: “I have rarely seen anything as remarkable as this interview… She has gone full in on describing Trump’s character, describing what’s happening at this White House, describing how people are enabling and empowering him.” (01:04)
• White House Fallout & Denials: The White House quickly tried to walk back her statements—only to be undercut when Whipple released audio.
• Trump’s “Alcoholic Personality”:
  • Wiles reportedly described Trump as having an “alcoholic’s personality”—a pointed, personal comparison—strikingly resonant given her father’s history.
  • Rick Wilson: “That line of her saying Trump has an alcoholic’s personality. Wow, man, that hit… There’s a daddy thing going on here.” (10:04)
  • Acosta: “That is not a compliment… it says to me that she's had to do a fair amount of coping and dealing with him.” (10:19)
• J.D. Vance & Cabinet Critiques:
  • Wiles calls VP J.D. Vance “a conspiracy theorist,” raising the question: is he truly one, or just playing to MAGA expectations?
  • She also skewers Marco Rubio (“Rubio has so much principle, he would never change just for politics”—Wilson and Acosta both laugh off the absurdity, recalling Rubio’s career flip-flops).
  • On Elon Musk: Wiles calls him “an avowed ketamine user and an odd, odd duck.”
  • Pam Bondi, Trump’s AG, “completely whiffed” on the Epstein files.
  • Russell Vogt, Budget Director, called “a right-wing, absolute zealot.”
• Power, Loyalty, and Survival:
  • Discussion around Wiles' likely inability to return to lobbying after burning bridges.
  • The paradox of Trump’s White House: staff terrified to leave, staffers vying for influence, and the impossibility of outshining Trump himself.
  • Rick Wilson: “Never let the staff be the story… She’s not Leo from the West Wing. She’s not supposed to have a major speaking role.” (12:16)
• White House Culture vs. Predecessors:
  • Wilson: “There’s supposed to be a sense of dignity and control…[but] Trump’s White House is profoundly transgressive and always has been.” (13:02–13:21)
  • Staff allegiance is based on fear and self-protection, not loyalty or respect: “If George W. Bush had woken up one morning and said, ‘Silence, piggy!’ People would have quit… With Trump, they are afraid that if they leave the orbit, he’ll destroy them.” (14:27–14:51)

2. The “Cult” and Trump’s Attack on Rob Reiner

[15:03–18:38]

• Trump posted a disgraceful, conspiratorial attack on the recently murdered Rob Reiner, blaming “Trump Derangement Syndrome” (TDS), dismissing the murder’s real circumstances—a new low.
  • Wilson: “It’s totally horrific… I think it’s evil.” (15:04)
  • Acosta: “It is sick, it is twisted, it is depraved, and it is evil, and it is a lie.” (52:19)
• Brief “Deprogramming” Among MAGA Followers:
  • Some Trump defenders falter, can’t fully back him—“I can't do this anymore… what the hell’s going on?” (15:36–15:45)
  • Still, congressional Republicans fall back on staged ignorance.
• Broader Reflections:
  • The cruelty and shamelessness are defining features, not bugs.
  • Wilson: “He wanted this response… he feeds on the hate.” (18:41–18:54)

3. Epstein Files—A Ticking Time Bomb

[19:06–24:31]

• Department of Justice deadline looms for the release of the Epstein files; media and public countdown (“Four days, Donald. That’s the long and the short of it.” 19:51).
• Widespread expectation of White House cover-up; predictions that released files will highlight only Democrats.
• Administration’s frantic effort to redact Trump’s involvement:
  • Wilson: “Dozens and dozens of FBI agents… spent a million plus dollars of overtime trying to find Trump’s name and redact his name out of these files. Yeah, I think people deserve that answer.” (23:52)
• Bipartisan Public Outrage:
  • The Epstein files cut across party lines, activating even MAGA’s base to demand truth.
  • Wilson: “There is a cover up. There is a lie at the heart of this administration about Donald Trump’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and they want to know it.” (22:13)
  • Acosta: “This is the most dangerous thing to his presidency at this point—the Epstein files—as it’s not computing with people in his base.” (46:02)

4. Glenn Kessler’s “Top Lies of 2025”

[25:07–52:46]

• Glenn Kessler, veteran fact-checker, recounts the painstaking process of chronicling Trump’s lies—over 30,000 during the first term alone.
  • “It was a front page story when the Washington Post fact checker said, Donald Trump lied, because we had him on tape.” (29:45)
• Key Insights on Why Lying Works:
  • Trump’s superpower is “he has no shame.” (26:32–26:42)
  • Kessler: “Most people have some modicum of shame that makes them think twice…Trump has no shame.” (26:36)
  • The media was slow to call things “lies” due to institutional reverence for the presidency, which Trump exploited.
• Top Trump Lies of the Year:
  1. Tariffs tax foreign countries, not citizens:
     • Trump repeats the claim that “tariffs don’t cost Americans anything.”
     • Kessler: “Every economist will say no, a tariff is simply a tax on the consumer, like 95% of it.” (35:41)
  2. $50 million for condoms for Hamas:
     • Based on a misattribution of AIDS funding in Africa, flipped into a MAGA talking point.
     • “Someone made a mistake…and they flipped it and made it Gaza, this Palestinian enclave.” (36:39–37:17)
  3. Ukraine started the war:
     • “Russian propaganda. It just completely flips what happened, which was an unprovoked invasion.” (37:34–38:20)
  4. Weaponized government:
     • “[There’s] no evidence at all that Joe Biden ever told prosecutors…Investigate Donald Trump.” (38:39–38:56)
  5. Economic problems are a Democrat hoax
  6. Tylenol causes autism:
     • Trump embraces anti-scientific public health claims endangering lives.
  7. Ending ‘seven’ or ‘eight’ wars:
     • Wild exaggerations include minor disputes (hydroelectric dam, etc.) as “wars” ended by Trump.
  8. Each drug boat destroyed saves 25,000 lives:
     • “The number of drug overdose deaths…was 75,000. Supposedly he saved 500,000—but it just doesn’t add up.” (44:31)
  9. Epstein files were fabricated by Democrats:
     • Kessler: “Investigations took place during the Trump administration…Comey had nothing to do with anything.”
  10. Golden Ballroom Doesn’t Interfere With the White House:
      • Trump claimed the planned demolition would “not interfere.” In fact, the entire East Wing was razed.
      • “He always defaults to destroying what’s valuable to create something for himself and then lie about it.” (47:41–50:09)
• On being a fact-checker in the Trump Era:
  • Institutional resistance to the word “lie” softened only after incontrovertible evidence (Michael Cohen tapes).
  • Acosta: “You don’t want to say the President is a liar… but after thousands of these, you just have to.” (30:50–32:05)

5. The Stakes: Lies, Media, and American Democracy

[52:19–end]

• Acosta’s closing reflection hammers home:
  • The press’s initial hesitation to call out lies was due to “decades of reverence” for the presidency—a vulnerability Trump was expert at exploiting.
  • “When the lies are about…the murder of people like Rob Reiner, when the lies reach that level—my God, we have to call them lies. We have to call it out. We have to do our job.” (52:19)
  • Dangerous lies require direct accountability.
  • “Donald Trump, who does not drink, according to the chief of staff of the White House, behaves like an alcoholic, has an alcoholic personality…who is completely out of control these days.” (52:56)
  • “The lies are now at risk of overwhelming the truth, of destroying the truth, of ending the concept of common truths. And we cannot allow that to happen.” (53:05)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Rick Wilson on Wiles' Interview:
  “She threw it open and said, everybody come on in for the party.” (01:56)

• On Trump’s “Alcoholic Personality”:
  Wilson: “That line…just struck me really hard. There’s a daddy thing going on here.” (10:04)

• On White House Staff Survival:
  Wilson: “If George W. Bush had woken up one morning and said, ‘Silence, piggy!’… People would have said, sir, I can't be around this… But with Trump, they are afraid that if they leave the orbit, he’ll destroy them.” (14:27–14:51)

• On “Cult” Behavior:
  Wilson: “We’re a decade into this cruelty and brutality to people, and he is a sick, perverse, sadistic man.” (18:23)

• On Epstein Files and Cover-up:
  Wilson: “There is a cover up. There is a lie at the heart of this administration about Donald Trump’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and they want to know it.” (22:13)

• Glenn Kessler on Trump’s Shamelessness:
  “His secret power is that he has no shame… it’s just not something he’s ever experienced.” (26:32–26:44)

• On the Difficulty of Calling a Lie:
  Kessler: “There was a front page story when the Washington Post fact checker said, Donald Trump lied, because we had him on tape.” (29:45)

• Acosta on Media Reluctance:
  “All of those kid gloves that people took in their reporting on the presidency… Trump was able to take advantage of.” (30:50)

• On “Bullshit” vs. Lying:
  Kessler: “Harry Frankfurt argued that bullshitting is worse than lying because a liar knows what the truth is—a bullshitter just doesn't care.” (32:45)

• On Institutional Memory/Historical Parallels:
  Kessler recalls Trump as a developer destroying Manhattan's Bonwit Teller art friezes—and lying about it through the fake PR persona "John Barron." (49:52)

• Acosta's Final Word:
  “Donald Trump’s lies are getting more destructive, they’re getting more toxic…This is not bullshit, folks. This is way more than bullshit. This is serious stuff. Because what these lies reveal is that the President of the United States is a danger not just to himself…he’s a danger to all of us.” (53:05)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Intro & Set Up of Wiles Story: 00:06–01:56
• Susie Wiles & Trump Character Discussion: 01:56–13:21
• White House Culture, Staff Dynamics: 13:21–15:03
• Rob Reiner Attack & MAGA “Deprogramming”: 15:03–18:38
• Epstein Files Countdown, Panic, Cover-up: 19:06–24:31
• Glenn Kessler Segment (Trump’s Lies): 25:07–52:46
• Host’s Reflection & Closing: 52:19–end

Conclusion

This episode is essential listening for anyone hoping to understand not just the latest scandal in Trump’s White House, but how lies—casual, shameless, or grandiose—have warped American political culture. Rick Wilson and Glenn Kessler offer a master class in deciphering disinformation, with sobering reminders about the cost of unchecked power and why fact-checking is more crucial now than ever. The warning is clear: stay vigilant for the truth, and don’t get numb to the daily deluge of deception.