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The Jim Acosta Show
WHAT'S HAPPENING TO TRUMP'S BRAND NEW TESLA? AARON PARNAS BREAKS IT ALL DOWN.
00:57:31
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
Welcome everybody, to the Jim Acosta show, tgif. And just so everybody knows out there, this show is a safe 50 miles from the blast radius of Donald Trump and Elon Musk. As you can see, my guest today, Aaron Parnas. Aaron, great to see you. I mean, you and I both have been following this. Quite frankly, the whole world has been following this over the last 24 hours. The fallout of the Trump Musk mushroom cloud continues to be felt inside MAGA world. The tears on Fox have been flowing for about 20. I have many of those MAGA tears in my real news pilsner glass right here. But Aaron, your thoughts?
- [00:38]
Aaron Parnas
Well, the big beautiful bill led to the big beautiful breakup. I mean, that's really what it was. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who saw this coming. The only surprise that I had in all of this was that it took this long. Really. When you have two big egos in a room like that where one is president and the other thinks he's president, and I'm not saying who is who, you end up in a situation where you're going to have this giant blowup. And it happened. I mean, it was inevitable. Elon Musk is obviously not happy. And now it seems like Elon wants to get back in Trump's good graces, wants a phone call, but Trump is not having it. Trump is saying that Elon's crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next week or so we get something from Trump saying that Elon took too much ketamine because that is the next logical step here in what Trump, Trump's playbook is so not surprised. But honestly, it's just another day in 2025.
- [01:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no love, actually, this is no 90s or 2000s rom com. That is not what is happening here. And to your point, the New York Times is reporting that Trump is getting rid of his Tesla. And according to close associates, again, this is, according to the New York Times is blaming Elon Musk's behavior on drug use as the acrimonious blow up of their partnership left both men with a lot at risk. Trump has been telling associates, again, this is, according to the New York Times, that Musk, his crazy behavior is linked to his drug use. And that's according to, according to two people with knowledge of Trump's private comments. And you know what's amazing about this, and Steve Bannon, by the way, you know, he's, he has not been one of Elon Musk's biggest fans. But in the New York Times, it says he was advising Trump to cancel all of the tech billionaires contracts and launch several investigations into Elon Musk. So, I mean, it sounds as though, you know, Trump is locked in here. He's pissed. And, and you can add Elon Musk to the list of people he wants to get revenge against. I suppose he'll be looking for Elon Musk to bending the knee next week.
- [02:35]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, I mean, for sure. I mean, I don't know if you remember, but back in 20, what was it, 2018, 2019, Donald Trump posted something like, Elon would come to the Oval Office and beg on his hands and knees for like, my support or whatnot. And then just a few years later, Elon was Donald Trump's biggest supporter. And they were having this bromance on national television. And now just as quickly as that bromance started, it ended. It really makes you think, like, was there ever this bromance or was it just kind of this transactional relationship? Which I really think it's more the latter than the former. They both got something out of it and now both of them are suffering because of it. Right. Donald Trump is obviously having this PR crisis, which he needs to fix by bringing Kilmar Abrego Garcia back home today. And Elon Musk on his part, meanwhile, is suffering significantly because investors of Tesla gave him a second chance to essentially come back to the company and have an opportunity to run the company and fix the failing company. And now the stock for Tesla dropped 14% yesterday. Tesla sales aren't really going to improve because Tesla people don't trust Elon Musk. And so it's just bad all around for them. It really is.
- [03:41]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, you mentioned the Kilmar Abrego Garcia thing. I mean, there is breaking news happening right now. And let's just be very transparent about this. I covered the White House under Donald Trump. They used to do this on Fridays when they were in a bad news cycle. They would throw out some news to sort of change the headlines. You're seeing the headlines changing. New York Times, Washington Post and so on. But abc, I think, first reported this, that Kilmar Abrego Garcia is on his way back to the US where we face criminal charges. The Trump administration is saying he's going to face criminal charges for allegedly transporting undocumented migrants within the U.S. i guess migrant trafficking is essentially what they're going to accuse him of. But I mean, Aaron, I mean, this is very Trump wagged the dog feeling, and I mean, for good reason on their part. I mean, When Elon Musk threw out the Epstein files yesterday, I think just about. I mean, and Washington is a place that is not easily shocked anymore. I think there were gasps in just about every corner of Washington when that tweet went out. And I'm sorry. You know, the Kilmar News is important, no question about it, but the possibility that the President of the United States is mentioned in the Epstein files and because, you know, Trump would not be able to handle it if those files got out, that there's some kind of COVID up going on, I mean, that. That's explosive stuff.
- [05:04]
Aaron Parnas
Oh, for sure. And I also think, I mean, Elon Musk, by tweeting that out, assuming it's true, in, in, in some way, he is exposing himself to possible criminal prosecution. Because those documents are confidential. Some of them may even be classified. And if Elon saw those as his role as part of the special government employee status role that he was in and is now tweeting about that publicly, that is technically a crime or could be a crime, depending on the circumstances. So, I mean, it is a very ser. I think House Democrats on the Oversight Committee issued a letter today to Pam Bondi asking for clarification. I doubt Bondi's gonna respond because she doesn't really have to. But if I. Let me just put this in perspective. If Joe Biden was the name and not Donald Trump, yes, House Republicans would be hauling Merrick Garland up to Capitol Hill to answer questions already. So the fact that they're not doing it right now shows that I think they know what's in there and they just don't want the truth coming out.
- [06:00]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, heads would definitely be exploding on Fox. There's no question about it. I'll be talking about that later. Because their heads were exploding yesterday over our town hall, Aaron, which I'm so grateful that you were a part of the other night. I thought it was a great success. It was tremendous to be able to hear from all those federal employees. I'm going to talk about that later on the show. I won't get in the way of us talking about the news right here, but, I mean, Mike Johnson was on CNBC earlier this morning and saying, I don't argue with Elon Musk about how to build rockets. I wish you wouldn't argue with me about how to craft legislation and pass it. Like, I mean, give me a break. I mean, you know, he's been in that job for how long? And he was kind of a back venture, but he says, I hope it resolves. Today, I mean, there's a, there's a lot of fear in the water is my sense of it inside the Republican Party and up on Capitol Hill over this.
- [06:46]
Aaron Parnas
Well, I think they know this bill is already dead. I mean, I really think that's where it's at. There's. And Elon's comments over the past 24 hours have only kind of fueled that fire. I mean, just about 30 minutes ago, 13 House Republicans wrote a letter saying that, wrote a letter to the Senate, I believe, saying that essentially that there's a provision in the bill that cuts too much energy subsidies or something like that, that they think it goes way too far. These 13 voted for the bill. You're seeing more and more cracks within the party on Capitol Hill. I think the bill, as it's currently written is dead on arrival. I think it's going to be dramatically changed. But honestly, I don't know how they get to passing this bill anymore, given what Elon Musk said, because he has effectively given a bunch of Freedom Caucus members, both in the House and far right Republicans in the Senate, like Rand Paul, cover to vote against this legislation. They didn't have that cover before. I think they have that cover now.
- [07:43]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, Margie Taylor Greene was saying what, earlier this week that she wouldn't vote for it in its current form because of what it does with AI, because it blocks states from regulating and doing things when it comes to AI. And I mean, to me, that's pretty extraordinary if Marjorie Taylor Greene is coming out and crapping on this bill. So, I mean, it seems to me Trump probably should take the gift that Elon Musk has given him here and run with it. But he doesn't, he doesn't operate that way. You know, he, Trump is, you know, Trump is Trump. And if, if you are violating what he thinks are the terms of the transactional relationship, then you're in the middle of with him, then he goes nuts. And that's what he's doing right now.
- [08:22]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, for sure. And honestly, this bill isn't even that good for Trump. Right? Like, it doesn't strodify a lot of his agenda. Like, yes, it extends tax cuts, but outside of that, the bill, when you look at the details, it's not that great for him. He doesn't get everything he wants. He doesn't get the full no tax on tips and overtime and Social Security. It's not all there. Some of it's there, but not all of it's there. So if I'm him, I'm Taking this like you said, and I'm going and rewriting the bill with the Senate and hopefully getting something different across the finish line. But I doubt it. I think that they're just going to start beating the drum of illegal immigration once again. That's why they brought Kilmar home today. And that's why I anticipate it's going to continue over the next several days. Just to get the 24 hour news cycle off of Elon.
- [09:09]
Jim Acosta
I suspect you're right. And it will tell you back to your comment earlier as we were getting started, Aaron, as to who is the president, who is the shadow president, who is the co president and if we see over the next couple of weeks the electric vehicle incentives put back in the bill, then you will know and Elon Musk gets back on board. Everybody who thinks right now that this is all permanent, that this breakup is permanent. So on. Oh no, no, no, no, no. You have not watched this TV show called Friends back in the 90s. But anyway, no, for folks who think that this is permanent, I assure you if they put those incentives back in that bill, Elon Musk I think is back on board. He'll say, oh, I was just kidding about the Epstein files. I don't know what I' talking about.
- [09:51]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, for sure. I mean 100%. He just, he, he's just trying to get in, in the good graces of his investors at this point because that's all he needs. I, I really think if he doesn't though, Elon will be ousted as CEO of Tesla by the end of the year if things don't change on the path that we're on right now. So it's, it's not all good for him.
- [10:06]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, and I was thinking about that too and I think maybe you and I talked about this where I was talking about with somebody and I'm sure you talked about it in your coverage, but it almost feels as though Elon Musk had a, a crisis PR team. Tell him like, okay, this is how you, you have to attack Donald Trump. You have to cause this bad breakup. This is the only way it's going to work. And you know, the stock has regained, I think some of the losses that it sustained yesterday. But you know, I mean that was a major hit it was taking yesterday. Aaron, I got to ask you about this other story that I'm obsessed with, speaking of bombshells, the bombshell and ProPublica on this 22 year old guy in a major role at DHS. Now Aaron, I thought you were a young guy, but ProPublica reporting. When Thomas Fugate graduated from college last year with a degree in politics, he celebrated in a social media post about the exciting opportunities that lay ahead. His career blast off came quickly. A year after graduation. The 22 year old, with no apparent national security experience is now a Department of Homeland Security official overseeing the government's main hub for terrorism prevention.
- [11:11]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, Jim, that may be one of the craziest headlines I have ever read this week. I mean, like in one headline after another. But I just. Most people when they're 22 years old, I mean, I remember what I was doing when I was 22 years old. Yes, I was a lawyer. Yes, I was fresh out of law school. So it's a little different. So I was in no position to.
- [11:29]
Jim Acosta
You were more experienced. But anyway, go ahead.
- [11:31]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, but I was in no position to lead a department that has, I think I read somewhere it has like a ten plus million dollar budget. This literally is the hub for counterterrorism in the United States of America. It just, I, I feel like he's just toying with us. Like he doesn't have to do this. He doesn't have to put these completely unqualified people in these positions, and yet he does anyway. And at the end of the day, all it takes is just one attack, right? Like all it takes is one, one thing to go wrong and then we're second guessing it. So I hope and pray that nothing goes wrong and I Hope that this 22 year old is and will be 25 by the time Trump leaves office, does a great job and keeps our country safe. But imagine if he does it like that. To me, I don't want to. People scream impeachment, people scream dereliction of duty. But I think it is a true dereliction of Trump's duty to put someone so inexperienced in charge of such a critical position. And if something goes wrong, then we're gonna have to have serious conversations about what's next.
- [12:30]
Jim Acosta
Well, and a couple of things too. I mean, one is, have you guys seen the picture of his eyebrow raise? I thought I had a good eyebrow raise. This guy, if you look at the pictures online, I think it's his official DHS photo. He does like the cocked eyebrow thing. The other thing is, is that you're absolutely right. And this goes to a big problem that I saw during the first Trump administration, is that they have a serious problem hiring competent people. The competent people in this realm, in the, in the national security realm, I mean, these are serious professionals. They're people like Olivia Troy, our friend Olivia Troy, they're professional people who don't want these Trump shenanigans. They don't want to be a part of this nonsense. And so he has trouble. And so of course they have to reach out to some kid who, you know is probably pretty good at flip cup. But I'm not sure about, you know, keeping the homeland safe. I guess let's just to wrap it up, Aaron. I mean, the Kilmar Abrego Garcia news is important. It is important that I suppose he is going to have his day in court. I don't like the way that the administration is obviously the White House is trying to put out there, oh, we're bringing him back to face these charges. They've been bending over backwards to tarnish this guy's character and who he is and so on. And that's not to say we don't innocent until proven guilty. We have no idea what's going to happen when he goes through his due process rights and so on. But the fact of the matter is, is that he did not have the due process on the way out of the country. That is the issue in all of this.
- [14:06]
Aaron Parnas
I agree. I mean, listen, I said it from the beginning. If he is guilty of the crimes he is charged, if he is an MS.13 member, lock him up and put him away for years. Right. If he is convicted by a jury of his peers and the evidence is there, so be it. But at least he gets his day in court. And whether you are undocumented and you have no criminal charges or you have, you've murdered a hundred people, it doesn't matter because in America's justice system, you have to have your day in court and you have to have the evidence presented against you. And that's what didn't happen here at the beginning. And so you can't just summarily deport people without their ability to have habeas relief or seek habeas relief and in this case now be presented in front of a jury. Because what they were doing is they were essentially saying he's guilty. Now prove his innocence. He's an MS.13 member. Now prove to us why he's not. And it's precarious timing in how they did it. Presumably to me, if he was this bad ms.13 member that because remember, if the president of El Salvador in the Oval Office said that, why would we ever release him if he. Because he's a terrorist.
- [15:13]
Jim Acosta
Right.
- [15:14]
Aaron Parnas
Well, they just released him.
- [15:15]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [15:16]
Aaron Parnas
They just let him go and then he said, well, we can't facilitate his return, but they just did. So they've been lying to us. They've been toying around with Kilmar Abrego Garcia's life for three months now. And arguably, in my opinion, like, A, he should get time served credit for these four months, and there you go. And B, we, we really need to have a serious conversation about how the Justice Department is playing games with people's lives.
- [15:40]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And shifting rationale, shifting explanations, and one of the things that they're going to have to look out for, and I think, Aaron, you've put your finger on this in the past, is that, I mean, when in, in many of these cases, the Trump administration is running into federal judges who have no time for these Trump lawyers coming into court and not having their stuff together and not being prepared and, and, and making up facts, playing fast and loose with the facts. They've had their hands slapped multiple times on that front. And to me, I mean, I, I was talking about this on my show the other day, one of the big lies of Donald Trump's return to power is what he has been doing with mass deportations. They said during the campaign, he said it coming into office, that these deportations were going to be impacting only criminals. They're going to be going, they're going to be targeting gang members, targeting criminals. And that has just not been the case. And if they desperately need examples to show that that's what they're doing, one would think they would have begun this prosecution of Kilmart weeks ago. They would have brought him back and said, see, now we're doing it and he's a criminal and so on. And that's just not what they've done.
- [16:47]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, I mean, if that was the case, then they wouldn't have had mistakenly detained a deputy U.S. marshal in Arizona yesterday. They wouldn't have detained an 18 year old on his way to volleyball practice, despite having no criminal charges in Massachusetts earlier last week. So it's ultimately the cruelty really is the point here. Like, they want to be as cruel as possible. They want to arrest and detain as many people as possible, and they don't care how they do it or who they get in these rates. So it's very unfortunate what we're seeing. And I really think this is a issue. I was talking to someone today. I think this is an issue that will really reach voters across the country in ways other issues won't, because it's really disrupting communities. In Missouri, we saw a line chef or a waitress at a local Waffle House, a waffle establishment. And she, this was a Missouri town, voted 80% for Donald Trump. She had been there for 20 years. They arrested her because she overstayed her visa. And the town that voted for 80, 80% for Donald Trump literally stood up and was like, absolutely not, and was fighting back. And many people there were, according to the New York Times, were upset that they even voted for Donald Trump because what they were seeing how these immigration raids were happening. So it is really breaking through. I just wish it didn't have to happen to breakthrough, if that makes sense.
- [18:02]
Jim Acosta
No, there's no question about it. And the way that they've been going after people like this person who worked at Waffle House or Waffle establishment, like you said, I mean, they've been going after families. Let's just face it. Let's face facts here. They are targeting families. They are targeting people who have to go up to the courthouse and show up for their hearings and their various immigration cases. I was at an event in Dallas last weekend. It was one week ago, and I was talking to a Latino journalist and PR conference there. And one of the things that was said to me is that there are kids not showing up for school. Kids are not going to public school now down in Dallas because they're worried about ICE raids at schools. So that tells you everything that you need to know, that these ICE raids are not targeting gang members, they're not targeting criminals. They're targeting people with brown skin and Spanish last names, full stop, end of story. But we'll see what the fallout is of this Kilmar case. But, yeah. Aaron, great to see you, man. Happy Friday. Thanks for doing. And once again, thank you for doing the town hall. Appreciate it.
- [19:06]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, it was a great time. Thanks so much for having me, Jim. We'll be back soon.
- [19:09]
Jim Acosta
All right, sounds good. Good to see you, man.
- [19:10]
Aaron Parnas
Take care.
- [19:11]
Jim Acosta
All right, take care. Happy Friday. Yeah, I mean, you know, the Aaron. The point Aaron was making there, I think is very important. And, you know, I think all of us were thinking this as I was coming on at 4 o' clock this afternoon, which is when this Kilmar Abrego Garcia news comes down. Just as we're all covering Elon Musk. We're 24 hours into Elon Musk and Donald Trump's bad breakup. Their big, beautiful bad breakup. It does obviously raise the question whether or not we're watching a little Wag the Dog here. And I hope I didn't throw Aaron off with the Wag the Dog reference. That is a reference to a 90s movie, which Aaron should see and you other kids out there should see. It was, I think it was Robert De Niro, Dustin Hoffman. Great movie. There are some cameos from Willie Nelson and so on. But it is all about trying to change the headlines, trying to change the story, trying to change the narrative. And became basically an expression that we now use in politics, which many of you out there who are watching fully understand. Hey, I'm going to try to get Denver Riggleman on. I believe he is watching. Really excited to catch up with my buddy Denver. He and I have known each other for quite some time. Denver, of course, former Republican congressman, later became disillusioned with the Republican Party, became a staffer on the January 6th committee and has since become much more of an independent. Just recently he was in Ukraine and there's Denver right there. Denver, great to see you, man.
- [20:46]
Denver Riggleman
Hey, what's going on, brother?
- [20:48]
Jim Acosta
Hey, good to see you. Good to see you. And you're fresh back from Ukraine. How's the jet lag treating you? Doing all right?
- [20:56]
Denver Riggleman
Yeah, man, I got back at one o' clock in the morning, so yesterday. So as you can see, I still look fresh as a daisy. But yeah, I got back at one.
- [21:05]
Jim Acosta
O' clock in the morning, no question. Back to your, your bourbon. What is that? You got a big bourbon distillery. You got a distillery thing going on at your place in Virginia, from what I understand.
- [21:14]
Denver Riggleman
I do. My wife is a master distiller. So we have Silverback Distillery here in Napkin, Virginia. We have another one of the Poconos. My wife is an award winning bourbon and rye whiskey producer.
- [21:24]
Jim Acosta
Wow.
- [21:25]
Denver Riggleman
And I'm just, I'm the tester, Jim. And then, you know, Royal taster. Yeah, I'm the whiskey taster. And everybody knows how good I am at it. And it's so funny because I, I was just doing a show and I have Green Spot right here. Some Irish whiskey my wife likes, but. I know, but. And then, yeah, so. And then my AI company is sort of blowing up. You know, I was in UAE and went straight almost from UAE to Ukraine. So it's been a crazy, you know. Wow, buddy.
- [21:50]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. Good for you. Well, I, you know, a couple of things we need to talk about. I want, I do want to talk about Ukraine in just a moment, but I have to get your sense of this Elon Musk Donald Trump bomb that went off yesterday. And I mean, I feel like a lot of this is right in your wheelhouse because you've been observer of the implosion of the Republican Party, the MAGA takeover of the Republican Party. And this is kind of what you get with these sorts of unholy alliances. I mean, an unholy tech billionaire in Elon Musk and an unholy President Donald Trump.
- [22:27]
Denver Riggleman
It's almost like two trolls in a basement fighting on Twitter. You know, it's like their mom brought them a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and they just wanted to go to war on Twitter. And I think that's what's pretty incredible to me. But let's put it in perspective. And I know we can laugh about it, Jim, but think about the amount of data that Elon Musk had access to in Doge.
- [22:45]
Jim Acosta
Boom.
- [22:46]
Denver Riggleman
But, but also his, his classified data, right? So you're talking about, you're talking about. Let's talk about you. I know we're going to get to Ukraine, but if we talk about all the communication systems in Ukraine, if you talk about SpaceX, if you talk about other government contracts for data, if you talk about AI, what clearances did he even hold? And if he was ingesting data in Doge, was it going into Palantir, how was that actually being processed? What clearance levels do those people have that are looking at it? So now you have this insufferable and maybe instable and unstable individual that has access to all this data. What is he going to do with it? How does he utilize that data? Who actually has access to it? So that's what scares me, is what people had access to the data, what is the vetting process and what are they going to do about those government contracts that he has? I think all of that wrapped up means we're in a very dangerous situation in the United States. And, and Jim, I'm glad to be on your show because if I could tell the people listening right now, this is unprecedented danger. When you have the world's most powerful man and the world's richest man with that access to data and government contracts, going at it in a banana republic style feud where people are threatening each other, you know, to pull government contracts and things like that. People should be afraid.
- [23:57]
Jim Acosta
No? And I remember you were the data Guru on the January 6 committee. So, I mean, you're bonafies, you're well established. And it's a perfect point that you're bringing up, because this has been one of my obsessions since Trump came back into office and unleashed Elon Musk and Doge on the federal government. And it is a question that I've raised multiple times as to how is it that more conservative Republicans are not totally pissed off about this? Because this should go straight to the heart of what you should be about. If you are a small government conservative, in what world is it normal for Elon Musk at Doge and people like big balls to be going into these federal agencies and hoovering up everybody's data? And now, yes, it can be weaponized by the President of the United States against the citizens of this country. I mean, that is. That's a very real scenario.
- [24:44]
Denver Riggleman
And who's going to stop him? Look at the people that he's put in positions of power. I mean, Jim, they're idiots for the most part. They are, you know, chosen on loyalty over competence.
- [24:54]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. There's just no question about it. And this New York Times story about Trump teaming up with Palantir, I mean, back in March. This is New York Times. Trump signed an executive order calling for the federal government to share data across agencies, raising questions over whether he might compile a master list of personal information. He has not publicly talked about the efforts since. But behind the scenes, officials have quietly put technological building blocks into place to enable his plan. This is according to the New York Times. In particular, they've turned to one company, Palantir, and I don't know why Palantir hasn't come out to knock this stuff down. I mean, if you're. I mean, if you're a company like Palantir, one would think they would want to talk about this and say, no, no, no, we're not. And I think it's. It's a very concerning development with. With hundreds of millions of dollars of our tax dollars paying for this.
- [25:43]
Denver Riggleman
So, you know, Jim, I've held hundreds of special access clearances. Right?
- [25:46]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [25:47]
Denver Riggleman
Called SAPS. There's other things called STOWs, Special Technical Operations, ACC. Right. All the stuff. TSCI, you go, all the letters, right? TK, G, HCS. I can do it. Do it all day long.
- [26:01]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [26:01]
Denver Riggleman
What scares me when you're talking about Palantir is they have connections within every portion of the government, from the highest clearance levels all the way to confidential, unclassified data. So, again, why aren't they knocking this down more violently? It's because of something called industrial relationships. And I can't talk too much about it because of all my clearances. But people need to understand that a lot of these companies right there, there's massive data hordes, and a lot of the ic, they purchase their data, Jim. It's not just data that they get out. You know, there's so many contractors that actually sell their data, public data, which they sprinkle the classified data on top of the public data. That's how this works. And so again, I'm not trying to scare everybody, because to be honest, Jim, I can find just about anybody with unclassified data. I don't need Palantir. Right. So, yeah, I know. I'm not trying to scare everybody on your show, Jim, but you are findable. But the problem is, how much data do they have? How can they weaponize it? Right. And how can they track you in real time? And people talk about this now, I'm not paranoid. I'm not trying to get people paranoid. But tracking people with data is not as difficult as you might think.
- [27:04]
Jim Acosta
And so let's talk about Ukraine. You just got back. I know you were out there checking in on how the Ukrainians are doing. You witnessed some stuff that went down. Talk about it. I mean, what'd you see out there? What are your thoughts coming back? I mean, Trump just said in the last, what, 24 hours or so, this sort of got overwhelmed by the Elon Musk news, But he's basically said, well, maybe we should just let Russia and Ukraine fight it out. Now, the guy who said he was going to end the war on day one. But anyway, tell us about your experience, your thoughts on everything.
- [27:33]
Denver Riggleman
Yeah, I mean, you know, I was there just by happenstance when Ukrainian hit the Russian strategic bomber fleet. So I got to see the retaliation. Now, here's what I want to tell people on here. There already was indiscriminate targeting of civilians well before the Russians were hit by the Ukrainian drones deep into their territory using something called FPV drones, first person view drones. And they're very, very dangerous. And listen, you haven't lived until you hear a drone attack. This guy has. And you know, Odessa, I was in Kherson. I saw the aftermath, but I also saw it while it was happening. And I want to thank some of the people who knocked on my door because during the drone and explosive attack, I woke up, I thought I was actually dreaming. It was our second one in a row. I was completely sleep deprived. And Ken Harbaugh comes slamming on my door like, d, there's drones everywhere. Get your ass downstairs. You know, so here I'm a military guy and I wait. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I better get downstairs. And I usually don't. It's not a panic thing, but it's definitely a pucker factor thing. Probably a pucker factor. Eight is What I had. So what I got to see though, was the explosions. I got to see the damage, people that have died. I got to talk to people whose family members have died. What you see is a massive attack on civilian infrastructure, civilian lives in schools, hospitals. I've seen it. I was there. And. But I see an incredible courage to the Ukrainians. And I want to give you a quote, Jim, and I hope people are prepared for this quote. Yeah, I was talking to somebody and she was part of the resistance and she goes, we don't hate the Russians, we just want them to leave us alone. But in order for us to leave. In order for us. In order for them to leave us alone. And I'm not going to say the words because we have to effing murder them. That's how the Ukraine's think. And I want people to understand the Ukrainians aren't going to stop. And with the advent of drone warfare.
- [29:26]
Aaron Parnas
The fact that.
- [29:36]
Denver Riggleman
The issues that we have is that we have drone warfare, stalemating lines, and you have killer drones that are flying around trying to target people and equipment without regard that their military targets are not there.
- [29:47]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. I mean, and the point that you raise, you know, takes me in a lot of different directions. One is that we're sort of seeing, and forgive me if this is a bad parallel or analogy, feel free to knock it down. But it almost, it almost feels like this is a Vietnam for Russia, except with the addition of drones, except that it's being fought largely with drones. And to me, the Russians should see that they are in, at best, a stalemate and it's just not going to improve from that standpoint. Short of dropping, you know, nuclear weapons on, on the Ukrainians. I just don't see how they can even the score here with the, with the capacity that the Ukrainians have shown with this drone technology. It's extraordinary.
- [30:35]
Denver Riggleman
It is extraordinary. I think the Ukrainians will have some issues getting explosives. I mean, that's some of the things that they do run over. But they just repurp sharpest Russian explosives in a very brilliant way. The thing, the thing that we're seeing on the line though, is the Russians are using fiber optic drones that are literally unjammable. The issue that you have with fiber optic drones, however, is they are actually connected by a guide wire. And that wire, fiber optic means you have to have heavier drones. But they're. They're heavier, they're slower, but they're unjammable. The Ukrainians are catching up. It's the first time we've seen the Russians actually get primacy in actual drone warfare. But what I saw there was, I didn't see fiber optic drones where I was in Kherson. It was still actually radio operated or frequency operated FPVs, first person view drones. So. And the Ukrainians just wipe them out. It almost seems like it's 5 to 1 Ukrainians to Russians when it comes to actual casualties over there. And so with the Ukrainians, they have to be more dynamic. Here's the other issue. The Russians, even though they can scale more, their technology just isn't quite as good. The Ukrainians are so good at cannibalizing French wiring, American wiring, anything they can get to actually rebuild their drones and real speed. They're also very good at re engineering drones that they see too. So. So people better not sleep on the Ukrainians. And I would say right now, Jim, the threats from Putin means they're losing. And right now, if the US and the EU countries would just come in with the aid that they need, I do believe Ukraine could drive them out of these, some of these areas and really force Russia into an awful situation. But again, you know, we do have some, we do have some cowards and people who aren't aware of how foreign policy works in Eastern Europe at this point that are in charge.
- [32:07]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, I mean, what do the Ukrainians need at this point? Because it's not clear they're going to get that from the Americans. They're gonna have to get that from the Europeans.
- [32:14]
Denver Riggleman
They are. And I think, you know, I was everybody who watches your show, Jim, there's humanitarian missions that you can give to. And I was thinking, you know, with 80 million screaming Americans gave a dollar a month. Right. That would be incredible for Ukraine. There's places like Zero Line, Ukrainian Freedom Project, all these incredible things. Because right now the American people need to stuff it as an American people, because our government just isn't going to do it. I think, yeah, I think people need to understand that. But the EU needs to come in. What they need is money. But that money needs to go to specific types of warfare. Right. And a lot of that has to do with drone warfare, but also with artillery vehicles. Right. Heavy mechanized equipment, but really comes down to drones, arms and heavy artillery, but also, again, air dominance and things of that nature. So again, you know, I always wonder what would happen if we had a POTUS right now who saw that Russia was severely weakened as they hit 1 million casualties. Now we just have this incredible opportunity to push Putin back based on the weakness of his position. And the fact that he's again, threatening nuclear war suggests to me, Jim, that they're in real dire need right now of a victory. They just can't find one.
- [33:22]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And they're in dire need, despite the fact that they've gotten help from the North Koreans. You know, they've gotten help from some of the worst actors on, on the, on the planet.
- [33:30]
Denver Riggleman
And.
- [33:31]
Jim Acosta
And, you know, and yet they're still getting their asses kicked. And to me, it's because the Ukrainians. And I've noticed this, I mean, on my old show, and I've done it here as well. When you talk to the Ukrainians, it is. It is remarkable. It is inspiring, the courage that they've demonstrated. And it goes back to the quote that you read just a short while ago. Necessity is the mother of invention. If the Ukrainians are determined to kick their fucking asses like that person said to you, or murder them. Or fucking murder them, whatever they said to you, then that's what they're gonna. That's what they're gonna do. Then that's what they're gonna do.
- [34:04]
Denver Riggleman
Well, when we were in the bomb shelter gym, you know, here I am, an American, prior military badass. Right, Jim? Badass. Right. And we're all down. There's 20 people in the bomb shelter, and they do the all clear. And, you know, fortunately, we have direct comms to people who can tell us this. We get the all clear. There's families with kids down there, and here's how they reacted. Oh, time to go back to our room. Yeah, that was it. They're so used to it. I just got in Kiev, massive attack last night. You know, I've been in Kiev when that's happened too, as you know, Jim. So I get attacked because I said, hey, how did it go last night? And one of the people goes, oh, man, it was really bad last night. I said, how bad was. He goes, well, I need to go look, because I slept through it. So this is. This is the Ukrainians. People need to know they're not going to stop. And when I was in Kherson near the river, where, you know, it wasn't quite in sniper range, but I was definitely an FPV drone range. You know, they were having church. They were having church under camo netting because they knew these outside meals. And, you know, I got to interview children who helped with the Ukrainian resistance, teenage girls and who actually went out and helped to find where Russians were putting mines and things like that. And to talk to these people, they're still going about their lives. Everything in Kherson looks deserted until you go into the basements. And that's where I had chicken heart borsch with a theater troupe right before a drone attack. And it's hard not to get emotional because the people are so resilient. But it's the children. And, you know, once you meet the children who have helped in the resistance, it'll change your life forever.
- [35:43]
Jim Acosta
And the kids, because they're battle hardened and because they're following this incredibly brave and inspiring example set by their parents, they're the next in line as soon as they get to fighting aid. I mean, Putin and the Russians just need to know they have two options. They're, they're either going to be locked in a stalemate or they're going to have to leave. That's those. That seems to me the only two options. I do not see Putin using tactical nuclear weapons. I just don't see it. I don't see him doing it. That, that he is not. I don't think of that mindset. He, he strikes me as somebody who thinks of his survival first. It's a little Trumpian. He thinks of his survival and he knows that the use of those kinds of weapons would very likely mean the end of his reign.
- [36:29]
Denver Riggleman
I would think it would be a pariah state and, and really, you know, really be the defi definition of a terrorist state. But maybe I'm too hawkish, Jim. Yeah, but here's what I would like to tell everybody. Once those strikes happened in Russia and now that they know that they can get to the bridge and Crimea, they know this. Now, I think they're threatening this because they do fear that they're losing the advantage and they're losing the initiative on the lines. Even though you're getting reporting of the fiber optic drones, you're getting reported shahed strikes all the way into Kiev, I think they're also saying it's very difficult to take land, it's very difficult to take turf against the Ukrainians. These guys are tough, right? They're mean, they're tough. They love their country and they love their families. And once you have people like that protecting, you're going to have a tough time. But to be hawkish, as soon as Putin doubled down, you know, and said I might use nuclear weapons, the US should have said, if you're going to say that we are actually going to increase our aid, we're going to give the Ukrainians everything that they need in order to fight back. Now, if you're going to threaten nuclear weapons. We're going to make sure that Ukraine has a conventional means to destroy you. And that's what a real American president would do. That's what we need to do. And I know nobody's going to listen to me, Joe. Right. I'm just an intelligent, but, you know, but, and I've just been there on the ground, which you sort of, it's good to have that experience to talk to people on the ground, to see their tactics. But that's what we need to do right now.
- [37:55]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, no, there's no question about it. And, and, and to Donald Trump, I mean, he needs to, his people need to understand. He needs to understand, you know, he thinks that he's got this bromance with Vladimir Putin. I mean, the Russians, I think I've been suggesting in the last 24 hours that Elon Musk, if he needs to, could come to Russia. I don't know if you saw that little headline, but apparently that there was a Russian official who said that to the task Russian media agency. You know, if you thought Edward Snowden was something, Elon Musk going to Moscow. If I were Donald Trump, I would be worried about that. I would be a little concerned about that scenario. But that's just me, I don't know.
- [38:29]
Denver Riggleman
Well, you know, Starlink is, you know, something that the Ukrainians need and it is a concerning scenario. But I think I'm pronouncing this correctly. People need to understand Europeans are building utilsat. So there is going to be some things out there that, that are going to compete with Starlink. And I think the European Union countries, they need to increase their, their actual investment and making sure they have their own Starlink architectures, if we want to call it that. Right, but utilsat isn't as good as Starlink yet. But you see that investment and I think they just delivered terminals into Ukraine. So the eu, I think, is starting to see that they need to compete on the technical level that we are with Starlink. And I'm not trying to get people fals Hope, Jim, but you can see this happening. And I'm telling you, if we lose the trust of our allies and they're doing all this and we're sitting back letting Eli Musk control the skies, I don't see us being able to, I just don't see us being able to repair those relationships for decades. I, I, yeah, we, we're becoming a little bit of a pariah state ourselves, you know, with the type of isolationism we're exhibiting. Right.
- [39:30]
Jim Acosta
Now, no, there's no question about it. When I talk to my friends in Europe, I've been to a conference. I was in Norway for a conference a couple of months ago. And you talk to people on the other side of the pond and they are pissed. They are pissed at the United States. They are pissed at Donald Trump. They do not want to go through four more years of this. And you're seeing lots of researchers leave the United States to go to Europe because they know they can do what they do here over there just as easily, no problem, and perhaps have the same level of funding. And, you know, if America wants to be out on its own, as Donald Trump has talked about, the rest of the world appears to be prepared to say, okay, we'll give you what you want until you put a real president back in the White House. But Denver, great to catch up with you, man. Good to talk to you, buddy.
- [40:21]
Denver Riggleman
Jim, always, thank you. You are one of the first voices, man. So I'm all, It's always an honor to talk to you, brother.
- [40:26]
Jim Acosta
Let's do it. Let's do it again soon. Let's do it again often. Really appreciate the time. Thanks, Denver.
- [40:31]
Denver Riggleman
See you, brother.
- [40:32]
Jim Acosta
All right. Have one on me, too. He's getting me in the mood for bourbon, I tell you. I gotta get down there. I gotta try Denver wife's bourbon. I gotta pour me something here soon. Great to talk to Denver Riggleman. And I know folks are obsessed with the Elon Musk Donald Trump drama, but, guys, there's other news out there. I totally get the appetite for it and this is a sophisticated audience, so I don't have to do a whole lot of arm twisting here. But I do like the fact that I was able to touch base with Den about his trip to Ukraine, and my friend Harry Dunn was over there as well. And it's good for Americans to go over there. It's good for people who care about democracy to go to Ukraine and to get a sense as to where the Ukrainians are at this point, because they're very worried. They're very worried about the future of their country. They're very worried about this relationship with the United States. I was talking to Harry about this the other night after my town hall, and what Harry was telling me is that the Ukrainians were just so happy that there were Americans there. Yes, people are concerned about the United States. Yes, people are concerned about Trump. But just having Americans in their presence gives them a boost, gives them a list. So a lift. So my thanks to Denver for going over there. Really appreciate that. And my thanks to Denver for coming back and talking to us about it. I do want to spend a couple of moments as I take a sip from my real news pilsner glass here. There should be a pilsner in here instead of water. I get it. But it's almost that time. We just have to go over and I have to tell you, let me just settle in here for a moment. We have to go over how much I thoroughly enjoyed the freakout over at Fox over at, at our town hall that we had on Monday night. For those of you who have not watched, shame on you. I command you this weekend, please go and watch our town hall that we had here in Washington, D.C. over at the Lincoln Theater with Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, Rosie o' Donnell, Michael Fanone, Olivia Troy, Harry Dunn was there, Tara Settmeier, Aaron Parnas was there, Miles Taylor was there as well. My goodness, we had so many people. But one of the reasons why I wanted to have the town hall was to hear from these federal employees who, by the way, have been abused by Donald Trump, have been abused by Elon Musk, have been abused by Doge, simply for doing their jobs here in Washington. They had a target put on their back by Project 2025. And Trump and Elon Musk decided to go and do their thing when he came into office. And it has been absolutely terrible what has happened to the federal employees, what has happened to the good people who work in our federal government here in Washington. And so we have this town hall, we open up the doors, we rent out the Lincoln Theater so we can hear from these folks. And I thought it was a pretty successful town hall, I have to be honest, not just tooting my own horn here, the fact that we were able to hear from so many people, some of the videos we put out went viral from this event. And yesterday on Fox, I don't know, I think it started with Megyn Kelly. This started with Megyn Kelly, I think, on Wednesday. And of course, because I guess they're not very creative over at Fox. Megyn Kelly does it. So then all these other Fox shows did it, apparently the Five the Five show on Fox, which I think is their highest rated show with Jesse Waters, Will Kane and I believe Laura Ingram, the one that's, she's, she used to be on later on at night. Now she's on at 7. And they were all going off on the town hall. And there's this one headline here, Kayleigh McEnany, who was the White House Press secretary during Donald Trump the first time around. Remember Kayleigh McEnany? Well, she said that I am a correspondent turned activist trying to get away with lies. That's what Kayleigh McEnany said about me over on Fox. Now, I typically try to ignore the bullshit over at Fox. After all, you're talking to the guy who coined the phrase that Fox News is the bullshit factory and they continue to be a bullshit factory. And one of the biggest bullshit artists over at fox is Kayleigh McEnany, who has still to this day not been able to get her own show. I'm very sorry for her about that. But, you know, for her to come after me for peddling lies. Kayleigh McEnany, just remember I was there in the White House briefing room around January 6th of 2021. I remember being there. I was there on January 6th. I was at the White House on January 6th. And I'm just going to inform the American people. While Kayleigh McEnany was the white House press secretary, yours truly, when I was a White House correspondent, I was in the building in the White House on January 6th. I was going through the West Wing, the press accessible areas of the West Wing went by the press secretary's office, went to what they call upper press. Could hardly find any White House officials that day. They all ran like cockroaches under the floorboards, it seems, of the White House, Kayleigh McEnany being among them. She surfaced in the next day or two to give a ridiculous statement in the White House briefing room. And if you go back and look at the Google images from that time, she looks like a very different person. She looks like a very different person who had the reality of Donald Trump's nuttiness, potential for danger weighing on her very heavily. And it was apparent to everybody at that time that Donald Trump had lied about January 6, had lied about the 2020 election, had lied about everything under the sun as it relates to his loss to Joe Biden. And Kayleigh McEnany could not be found on January 6th. And I just want to remind our viewers of this, I could not find her that day. I was able to find Sarah Matthews. I was able to text with her that day. I was able to text with Stephanie Grisham, who was working for the first lady at that time. Kayleigh McEnany was nowhere to be found. A profile in cowardice. And now she's over at Fox hurling insults in my direction for hosting a, a town hall. So we can hear from the federal employees in Washington, D.C. it's because of people like Kaylee, that we are in the trouble that we are in as a country right now. And she just needs to know that. That and she needs to know that there's just not a future for her peddling these lies, being this bullshit artist for Donald Trump. It's just not going to end well for people like Kaylee. And apparently Megyn Kelly was going off on me, too. Megyn Kelly, who? You know, let's remember, she was on Fox. Then she went to NBC. And there's this story in the AP from October of 2018. This is who Megyn Kelly is. Megyn Kelly, the former Fox News Channel personality who made a rocky transition to softer news at NBC, was fired from her morning show Friday after triggering a furor by suggesting it was okay for white people to wear blackface at Halloween. That's Megyn Kelly. Megyn Kelly fired from NBC for telling people it was okay to wear blackface. These are the kinds of people that are out there hurling insults at a town hall that is aimed at giving voice to federal employees who've been put through the meat grinder by folks like Donald Trump and Elon Musk. And what really needs to be said, a couple of things. One is what in the hell are people like Megyn Kelly? Apparently she had Sean Spicer on with her. Oh, my God. Sean Spicer. My God. Where did they, under what rock did they find him? But Megyn Kelly needs to be asked. Some of these other right wing talk show people need to be asked, you know, the people who like to take shots at me, what are you going to do these next three or four years? What are you going to do? Are you really going to carry Donald Trump's water these next three or four years? That just sounds to me like a very sad existence. I mean, I could think of a lot of other ways to spend my time. And I have to wonder what the terror was like that shot through them. All of these people over at Fox, Megyn Kelly, all of these bad faith people on the far right. I'm just trying to think of the terror shooting through them yesterday when Elon Musk put On his website, twitter.com also known as X, that Donald Trump is in the Epstein Files, that Donald Trump is in the Epstein Files, some of the very same people who were fanning the flames of this Epstein Files story over the last several years, all of the sudden were hoisted on their own petard. And you have to wonder, at what point do you stop carrying water for Donald Trump? Is it when the Epstein files are Actually released and he's in the Epstein files, will you care at that point? Will you stop carrying water for him at that point? Will you stop being his lapdog at that point? Megyn Kelly, if he shows up in the Epstein files, will you stop showing up at MAGA rallies for him? Megyn Kelly, Kayleigh McEnany, if he shows up in the Epstein files, will you stop being his lapdog on Fox News? Will you stop doing propaganda for him at Fox News? You did the propaganda for him over at the White House. If he's there in the Epstein files, I just have to wonder, at what point do you think your goose is cooked? Because I think at that point, your goose is cooked. I think at that point. Hey, it is June. It's almost time for a summer scandal in Washington, D.C. i've been around this town for quite some time, born and raised in the Washington, D.C. area. It's one of the reasons why I had that town hall the other night. I want to look out for my people here. And we are heading right smack dab into the middle of scandal season in Washington, D.C. ladies and gentlemen. That's when June comes around. You shouldn't say, oh, gosh, summer's around the corner. Perhaps we should get the kids in the car. Put the beach chairs in the car, honey, let's go to Ocean City. No, you should be thinking, it is just about time for a summer scandal in Washington, dc. And oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness, wouldn't it be something? As I was saying the other day, my producer, Matty, loved it when I was saying, oh, I do declare. Let me find my fainting couch. I do declare. There's an Elon Musk Epstein file scandal that breaks out this summer. What are they going to do on the Five? What are they going to do? Yesterday they were freaking out, which I assume is the reason why they were coming after me. They're like, we got to find some content. We need a story. What can we cover? We need to cover something. Elon Musk is saying, Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. I know. We'll go after Jim. We'll talk about Jim's town hall. That'll take up at least one block. We'll be able to talk about something else. And I guess it works for a little while over at Fox. But, folks, this is why so many years ago, I coined the term the bullshit factory, the place where Megyn Kelly came out of. And now she's doing I don't know. And also, there was another moment in the Megyn Kelly Episode where she was talking about Michael Fanone's language. The language that Michael Fanone was using. This is coming from Megyn Kelly, who was appearing at MAGA rallies, Trump rallies, during the 2024 campaign. Despite the fact that back, way back in the 2016 campaign, he was talking about Megyn Kelly and blood coming out of wherever. Whatever he was saying back at that. Remember that disgusting episode when Donald Trump was talking about Megyn Kelly in that fashion? And then she, I guess for career reasons, because her, her life is so pathetic. I don't know. It's a sad and sorry state of affairs when somebody talks about you in that fashion and then you go appear at their MAGA rallies. I mean, talk about pathetic. And she's complaining about Michael Fanon's language at my town hall when Donald Trump said that about her. Sure, Jan. Sure, Jan. Okay. And so folks need to understand. And I heard from so many people. I had so many friends. I had, I had all these people do watch the Five. I will say I had so many friends texting me and saying, oh, my gosh, Jim, you're on the Five right now. And I'm thinking to myself, my God, this Elon Musk Donald Trump thing is blowing up and they're talking about little old me, me. Isn't that something? Talk about wag the dog. Talk about change. Change the subject. It's the, you know, Roger Ailes must have been smiling from wherever he's currently residing and saying, way to go, kids. And oh, yeah, Roger A's reminding me of that movie bombshell that that was it. Charlize Theron plays Megyn Kelly in that Quite, quite the time Megyn Kelly has had out there. Boy, you've really, you know, you've really carved out a niche for yourself there speaking truth to power or whatever it is that you're doing on your little program. You know, keep at it. Keep carrying that water for Donald Trump. Let's see where it takes you. Let's see where it takes you. Tjif, everybody. Thanks, everybody for tuning in. Thanks, everybody for letting me know that, yes, there are clips of me out on Fox right now. I do appreciate the coverage. I do appreciate the plugs. It is, they are, they are doing my work for me. So thank you very much. I heard from so many people. And by the way, if you still want to watch the town hall and see what the fuss is all about, it's available on my substack. It's available on YouTube. You can go and find it. You can go and watch it. And once again, as I close out this week, I do have to say thanks to everybody who came out that night. Thanks to everybody who watched. I know so many people wanted to watch who couldn't make it to Washington. I appreciate all of that, that support. It means the world to me and it means the world. I will tell you to the federal employees who came there that night, who I spoke to after the town hall was over, so many of them came up to me and said thank you because I feel heard. You know, so many of them have been suffering since they've been laid off for ridiculous cockamamie reasons. And they're going through a lot of and now we don't know what's going to happen to the National Weather Service this summer. We don't know what's going to happen to FEMA this summer with hurricane season on its way. We don't know what's going to happen at a whole host of very important agencies that are necessary to protect the public. And, you know, for the people over at Fox who want to take shots at a town hall, when you're hearing from federal employees about that, think about what's going to be happening this summer when we don't have a national weather Service that could do the work that it used to do or a FEMA that can't do the work that it used to do because of Elon Musk and Doge and Donald Trump. Something to think about. Might make a good segment on THE five. Just a thought. My thanks to Aaron Parnas, my thanks to Denver Riggman, my thanks to everybody involved in the town hall this week, all the people in front of the camera, all the people behind the scenes, yeoman's work, fantastic work on everybody's part. Really appreciate it. Thanks, everybody for watching this week. I'll see you next week. In the meantime, still reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Good night.