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The Jim Acosta Show
What's Trump Hiding in the Epstein case? With Charlie Sykes and Wajahat Ali
01:04:13
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- [00:00]
Jim Acosta
But welcome, everybody, to the Jim Acosta show on this Tuesday. You can see Charlie Sykes right there, a great political talker and just the perfect guest to talk about the latest in the Epstein case. And Charlie, I'm sure you saw the quote earlier today from Pam Bondi, quote, that's it, on Epstein using those words at a White House Cabinet meeting earlier today. And after a reporter asked about the case in that recent DOJ memo that appeared to be an attempt to sweep the case up under the rug, Trump popped in there and said, quote, are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? The guy has been talked about for years. I can't believe you're asking a question on Epstein at a time like this. And then, I mean, to me, Charlie, Trump and Bondi both sounding like Leslie Nielsen playing Frank Drebin in the legendary movie the Naked Gun. Nothing to see here. Please disperse. But, Charlie Sykes, your thoughts on all of this.
- [00:55]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, so, I mean, weird even by the standards of our weirdness, what's going on here? You know, when, when, when Trump says they've been talking about it for years. Put this in context. I mean, for years you have had right wing radio, right wing media pounding away at all of this. I mean, this is like almost the mother of all conspiracy theories, you know, part of this whole universe of beliefs that Democrats were somehow involved in sex trafficking and all of this. So the obsession on the Trump is right about Epstein has always been off the charts. I mean, so off the charts that the same Pam Bondi and I was actually going back and making notes on the timeline when she said, I have thousands of videos and the report is on my desk. And then they did that bogus thing. You remember this? The pictures are fantastic. They invited all of the MAGA influencers.
- [01:48]
Jim Acosta
Yes.
- [01:49]
Charlie Sykes
And they handed them the basically binders. This is the Epstein report. This is going to blow the lid off of it. And of course, it was empty. It didn't have anything, but it was sort of like, it's coming, you know, in two weeks, it's coming. And now this whole nothing to see here.
- [02:06]
Jim Acosta
So it's wild. It's really wild.
- [02:09]
Charlie Sykes
Well, and the one thing in the timeline that is apparently decisive, or at least one of the things that decisive, is when Elon Musk's romance with Trump broke up. And in his white hot rage, he tweeted out, Trump is in the Epstein file. And so, you know, exactly. Hey, where are we going here? Well, apparently nothing. Nothing to see. Nothing to see.
- [02:33]
Jim Acosta
Nothing to see. Or please disperse. And, you know, you mentioned Elon Musk, I do want to mention that, but I should say, you know, this is what Attorney General Pam Bondi said earlier today, shutting down questions from reporters while sitting in on that Cabinet meeting with Trump. She, she says she was trying to clarify a comment she made on Fox back in February. I mean, this is one of the more damning things, Charlie, when she seemed to say, she said that the Epstein client list was sitting on her desk. Now she is saying, quote, in February, I did an interview on Fox and it's been getting a lot of attention. This is what she said earlier today in the Cabinet meeting. Because I was asked a question about the client list. And my response was, it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed. Meaning the file, she says now along with the JFK MLK files as well. That's what, what I meant by that. End quote. And then she went on to say, and that's it on Epstein. I mean, she said this. And you know, you mentioned Elon Musk earlier today. He replied to a tweet by Roger Stone. I don't know if you saw this, Charlie, but a longtime Trump advisor, Roger Stone, tweeted this earlier today saying, quote, why would Bannon meet with Jeffrey Epstein both at his New York home and in Paris after Epstein was convicted on sex crimes in Florida? Why would he coach Epstein for a 60 Minutes appearance? I, I don't know what the veracity is of the Roger Stone tweet. It's a Roger Stone tweet. But to that Elon Musk replied on X, quote, bannon is in the Epstein files. So strange things at the Circle K. Some things rotten in Denmark. I mean, pick your cliche here, but there's a lot here that does not add up.
- [04:10]
Charlie Sykes
Well, my favorite cliche is a lot of leopards faces being eaten here. What happens when the, what is it the leopards eating people's faces party and people are really shocked. I didn't expect the leopard to eat my face. There's a lot of that going on here. Now, again, we have to put this in context. And you know this as well as anyone. Would this actually matter to the MAGA voters? I mean, you know, Donald Trump, he's a convicted felon. You know, a federal jury found him guilty of being liable for sex abuse. Have to be careful about how we actually say that. Right. Given the ABC settlement. And apparently this did not dissuade tens of millions of Trump voters. So. But this has always been one of those screaming, I won't say paradoxes and ironies of the Trump world that here you have all of this suggestion that Donald Trump himself was involved with the world's most notorious sex trafficker at a time when Republicans were accusing everybody else of it. And, you know, and. And. And yet it didn't seem to register. You know, you and I could spend the entire hour just flipping through pictures of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein hanging out together. Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein leering at young women. Donald Trump sitting next to, you know, you know, sitting with Jeffrey Epstein and young girl. And it just has not registered. So Elon Musk probably thought he was firing kind of the ultimate nuke at Donald Trump, but I'm not sure if that's. But having said that, this is being handled about as lamely as possible. And it is interesting how you have all this MAGA on MAGA violence because, I mean, Mali is losing its mind, because for years and years and years, they have been led to believe that there was this. All of this evidence there. And now for the Trump administration, Pam Bondi and Dan Bongino and Cash Patel suddenly become the establishment covering it up. It's like, you know, these are the.
- [06:21]
Jim Acosta
Four horsemen of the Epstein apocalypse. I mean, you know, and here's the thing, Charlie. You and I both know this because we cover this closely. And for our viewers and listeners who are paying attention to all this, they pay attention to it very closely, too. But just about every goofball on the far right with an X account for the last several years has been popping off on Jeffrey Epstein. And I don't know if we're in a bit of a MAGA inception moment here in that I think part of the thing that was going on in the far right is that they were so crazy, creeped out and probably uncomfortable by all of that video showing Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump that they just wanted to go out there and both sides this. And what about this? And, you know, hint that there were major Democratic figures on the Epstein client list in the Epstein files, perhaps to sort of, I don't know, paper over whatever Trump is up to in all of this. But, I mean, the thing that we have to point out is Trump has himself promised to release the Epstein files. Um, he was on Fox and Friends June of last year. Would you declassify the Epstein files, Trump? Yeah, Yeah, I would. And then, J.D. vance, this was a few weeks before the election last fall on the podcast with Theo Vaughn. Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is a very important thing. That is an important thing. I mean, they, they, as my mother would say, you make your bed, you lie in it. That. I mean, that they just, they put themselves out there on this, and now they're trying to sweep it under the rug.
- [07:49]
Charlie Sykes
Yes. And, you know, over the next couple of days, we're probably going to see there's a tweet for everything that probably about everybody in Mogul World has multiple tweets where they're talking about, hey, the Epstein file is really important. We have to find out what's going on here because it's really, really shady and we have to get to it. And JD Vance being one of them. And now, of course, it's the. There's nothing to see here now. Will they get away with this? Well, they've gotten away with so much. I mean, it's, you know, they'll. They'll change the subject. In. In fact, I think this is something I actually wrote down here thinking, you know, that given how, I don't know, like, embarrassing this all is, we. We're going to have the big distraction coming, won't we? Right.
- [08:30]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [08:30]
Charlie Sykes
I mean, there's got to be something to change the narrative so that by tomorrow morning, we're going to go. You know, I wanted to spend more time on that Epstein, but this story, this big news story is just too big.
- [08:40]
Jim Acosta
Well, he kind of cranked up yesterday. Right, right. He cranked up the tariffs yesterday. He cranked up the tariff distraction machine yesterday, and then he sort of waffled on Ukraine. I was gonna talk about that at the end of the show to sort of, you know, give everybody, you know, a warning, to take a deep breath when Donald Trump says he's changing his mind on Ukraine a little bit. I mean, I'll believe it when I see it, but you're absolutely right, Charlie. And to me, there are moments when Donald Trump is nervous, and then there are moments where he's. He's, you know, kind of scared shitless. And when I saw him sort of leap into the conversation at the Cabinet meeting earlier today, when that reporter was asking about the missing minute and the Epstein and this DOJ memo on the Epstein case, I mean, Trump sounded worried, and he doesn't sound that worried that often, it seemed to me. And who knows what that means?
- [09:36]
Charlie Sykes
Well, it means he doesn't want to explain to Melania, you know, we probably. And I don't want to say that it's a game, so I don't want to be misunderstood here. But, I mean, over the years, we've gone through the various scenarios. What would it take for MAGA to turn on or his base to turn on him. And there was, there was a time when I would have said, well, if it turns out that he had paid for an abortion for a previous mistress, I no longer believe that. I think that that would be, they'd be fine with that.
- [10:04]
Jim Acosta
Maybe. Fine.
- [10:05]
Charlie Sykes
So, yeah, but trafficking with Jeffrey Epstein and underage girls in the back of Donald Trump's mind, I mean, his reptilian instinct is I'm going to get away with anything. Back of his mind, he's thinking that's coming close to it. That would be embarrassing to me. So he shut the question down and he's going to change the subject very, very quickly. What is going to be interesting? Of course it will be what do the other MAGA influencers do? How will Fox News handle this? Will they move on, ask questions? Will they feature the people? Because you and I both know there is so much tape and there is so much evidence of all of the Trump world folks saying how important this was, what a big deal this was. Now they, they are the ones who are involved in the COVID now. One, one last question here, Jim. What would their reaction be if Joe Biden and Merrick Garland had done what they just did? Can you imagine that? Can you imagine what maga's reaction would have been?
- [11:08]
Jim Acosta
Well, MAGA was almost, I mean they were all but saying that, they were saying that there were major Democratic figures in these files and they were clamoring for the release of these files and of the so called list. And our friend Tara Paul, Mary was pointing out on my show yesterday there's not really a list. There are the files. And, and if you look at the many of the files that have been made public, they're heavily redacted. And so this continues to be covered up and you have to wonder what the hell they're up to. I was going to talk about this with Wajahat Ali a little bit later on in the show, but Charlie, I have to ask you about, because you know, you and I have been around the block a time or two. We've seen the, the temptation to, and attempts made to create a third political party in this country. And I hate to keep talking about Elon Musk because that's what Elon Musk wants. But when the richest man in the world wants to create a third party and he's calling it the America Party, I don't know, there's a part of me that kind of takes too seriously and I wonder what you think.
- [12:04]
Charlie Sykes
Well, I mean, the good news is that we're now Talking about a third way of breaking the duopoly. The really bad news is that it's Elon Musk. Elon Musk is the world's richest guy. But you know what, Jim? He's really bad at politics. I mean, really bad at politics. And I think we saw that. You know, I'm from Wisconsin, and he came here, remember, this was going to be right. This was, this, this was the, really, the turning point. This was, you know, his bid that he was going to be the political kingmaker. He dropped $20 million into a state we're not California or Florida. That's a lot of money here. And he got his head handed to him. So just a reminder that, that I think that Elon Musk has many, many, many skills, but he is politically tone deaf now. He. Is he really serious about this party again? We'll see. Does he hire people? Is he able to get on the ballot? I don't know. Part of the problem is that the deck is stacked so intensely in favor of the two parties. It's very, very difficult. In a fantasy scenario, what would it take to get a major third party? You would start with the world's richest man if he was not Elon Musk. So count me as a skeptic.
- [13:14]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, but Charlie, I mean, you and I remember the 1992 presidential race. That was the first race I voted in, as a matter of fact. But Ross Perot, you know, mounted that independent bid. He was not the richest man in the world, but he was a very wealthy, he was a billionaire. And he was able to, what, garner 19%, I believe, of the popular vote and essentially hand Bill Clinton the presidency because he ended up siphoning votes away from George H.W. bush. And so we just don't know. I guess we just don't know what we don't know. It's like that old Rumsfeld is that we don't know what we don't know. It's an unknown, unknown. But one has to think, if Elon Musk gets involved in some of these primaries in the upcoming midterms, and he puts tens of millions or hundreds of billions of dollars in the midterms, and he gets some scalps, get some MAGA scalps, hurts Trump, the temptation might be there for him to want to put some of that money behind an independent candidate. But as you said, it's Elon Musk. I mean, this is a guy who looked like he was doing a Hitler salute at Trump's inauguration. So, I mean, you know, I just, to me, he's just a bad faith actor at the end of the day.
- [14:22]
Charlie Sykes
Right. And, you know, somebody asked me about this Ross Perot analogy earlier today, and I've been thinking about it and you know, yes, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote and he got zero votes in the electoral college. Okay, that's second. It's not 1992 anymore. I mean, I was thinking back on that year and talk about what was really kind of an uninspiring choice. George H.W. bush, very, very beige. Bill Clinton, young guy, people didn't know him, didn't have a feel for him, was kind of the perfect moment for this. I know it seems weird now to look back on that as a kinder, gentler time, but the intensity of the culture wars was not great there. You don't have the kind of tribalism that you have right now. And I think one of the tests of Elon Musk clout was just in this vote on the big beautiful bill where he kind of went all in and he said, I will put money behind primary challenges to House Freedom Caucus members who vote for this. I will support the dissidents. How many votes did Elon Musk get in the House of Representatives? This is another world's richest man. Five minutes. The co president. Right. Running cabinet meetings. And he had no influence whatsoever during that process. So, again, reasons to have skepticism. Now, I could be proven wrong, but I don't know. Yeah, I think the lines are too rigidly drawn now. If I'm a Republican, I would be nervous that he would siphon votes off in some of these swing districts. And so he can do, he can do some mischief, he can do some damage. But, you know, what does that get him in the end? What does that get Dilon?
- [16:07]
Jim Acosta
No, there's, there's no question about it. And, and I do think that, you know, you can go back to Ralph Nader, and Ralph Nader played a spoiler in the 2000 race, and probably. And, and he did cost Al Gore the election. And God knows what the world would have been like if Al Gore had won that election and been been elected into the White House. But I, I do think, and I wonder what you think about this, Charlie, because you did say maybe, you indicated, you sort of suggested that maybe we do need a third party. We do need something to sort of shake things up in this country. And there are times when I think we probably do. And I, I don't know what the end result with that that would be. You know, we certainly don't want to have A third party then accidentally elect a fascist who's even more dangerous than Donald Trump. But, but it does seem as though both parties are bringing this upon themselves to some extent. And I just kind of wonder, you know.
- [17:05]
Charlie Sykes
No, I, I, I agree. And this has been kind of the, you know, fantasy for the last 10 years that people have been playing around with, that we have something, you know, something different. Can we break it? But so far it hasn't gone anywhere. And I, and I think that you put your finger on it, I think that people are really quite afraid that if you have a third party that you would have, you know, that you would, you know, have a, you know, minority government elected or something, or something like, like that. But I mean, right now I could, I could see in the not too distant future just a complete and thorough disgust with the political system, with government, and someone saying, I just want to try something completely new. You know, I think that if there's, if there's one lesson, and you know, if there's one lesson that I think people in politics ought to recognize is that people do not want stale retreads anymore. Any party that is offering one same old, same old, is just asking for it. The rules of politics are changing rather dramatically. People want different things. They want someone who, they want the show, they want the entertainment, but they also want some sense of change, of real fundamental change. Now, that doesn't mean that they want a democratic socialist or anything, but it means that they don't want Hillary Clinton, they don't want another Joe Biden, they don't want Andrew Cuomo, they don't want somebody else. They don't want another 80 year old person who has been around for 30 years who talks in a language from a previous century. So that's one of the lessons that both parties have to learn. Learn it quickly.
- [18:40]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, and, and I'm not so, I mean, Zoran Momdani, some of the viewers are mentioning Zoran Mamdani up in New York. And I, I'm not so sure. I mean, people are saying, oh, New York, they elect, they're electing somebody who was socialist and very left wing. And that sort of, I'm not so sure that's, that's what New Yorkers voted for. I think New Yorkers voted for what you're just saying, which is they don't want an establishment Democratic politician. They did not want Andrew Cuomo. They just did not want him. And I think Mamdani came along and looked very charismatic and was speaking in a language on affordability and Other issues that New Yorkers can relate to. If you go up to New York, they are talking about that all the time. The city is just out of control, expensive. And he tapped into something and I'm not so sure you could put an ism on what is happening there.
- [19:30]
Charlie Sykes
Okay, this is a really important point here because I think that people can and draw correct conclusions, but also get incorrect conclusions. Number one, people want to change. They wanted something new. They wanted something dynamic. He ran a great campaign. He was charismatic. Andrew Cuomo was absolutely toxic, ran a thoroughly shitty campaign. And so somebody who is new and charismatic, this is positive. If you were to draw from that the lesson that, oh, Democrats outside of New York should embrace someone that far left, a Democratic Socialist of America. And by the way, for your listeners, Democratic Socialist of America, the DSA is not the same as the Democratic socialists of Denmark and Sweden and Scandinavia.
- [20:16]
Jim Acosta
Right, Exactly.
- [20:16]
Charlie Sykes
These guys are way out there. And trust me, I do have serious concerns that in 2026 that the Republicans will nationalize that and we'll use this as a cudgel over Democrats because the oppo research on this guy is staggering. So I would have thought the Democrats would have learned the lesson about defund the police. Now, there may be listeners who are going, okay, I love all of these socialist policies here. You have to ask yourself, do you want to win the elections and take control of Congress? You want to scratch your ideological id because guys like Mamdani would not are not the majority makers. They're not going to win in any swing states. In fact, they are going to be the subject of tens of millions of dollars of Republican ads. So, oh, yeah, yeah, you want new and you want young and you want charismatic. But don't delude yourself into thinking that far left politics is going to sell anywhere outside of certain precincts of, of New York City.
- [21:23]
Jim Acosta
No, I think that's a very good point. And I will point to what I observed out on the campaign trail back in 2008, Barack Obama just sort of came out of nowhere, took off like a rocket, was very much, very progressive senator back in state senator back in Illinois, but campaigned very much like a moderate. And he understood the politics of that moment. The financial crisis was happening in late 2008, mid to late 2008. And he just seized upon it and presented himself as the alternative, the alternative to the establishment. And John McCain, God rest his soul, one of my heroes. But Barack Obama painted him as part of the past, can't handle the present. And you're absolutely right, you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, because it just may be, you know, as Joe Biden used to say, don't compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative. And that may be just enough for Democrats next year, but we'll see.
- [22:19]
Charlie Sykes
You know, that's a great point. You know, and here in Wisconsin, there are counties, which I find endlessly fascinating. There are counties that voted for Barack Obama twice, then voted for Donald Trump the next three times. So, you know, sometimes those of us who've been in politics too long, I think overthink it. And we think that's about policies and about issues and about this piece of new legislation and this bill, when it actually turns out to be that people are looking for somebody they like, like somebody they trust, somebody who is going to deliver change for them and they're going to go.
- [22:52]
Jim Acosta
I think people want to be inspired. I think people want to hope. I think people, they're just. People are so down in the dumps and they're feeling so much darkness in their lives right now. And I hear this from so many friends and colleagues and people. I want to leave the country and all the. And people are just, they're pissed. They're so upset about what's happening in this country right now. And maybe Mamdani captured a little bit of that in New York, and I agree with you. He's got a lot of questions to answer up in New York. But people just want to feel some hope. Again, I think that's. And whoever can figure that out, that special sauce, I think is going to do really well. But.
- [23:27]
Charlie Sykes
Well, they also have to realize that. And this is going to sound trivial compared to that. What you just said is they want the show. The reality is that they want someone who is going to, as you said, inspire them but also capture their attention. And this is, you know, you think back on, you know, Joe Biden's presidency and compare it to Donald Trump. Joe Biden did not have the energy or the presence to be a modern president in the sense of selling and inspiring out there. It just wasn't there. You know, again, I had a conversation earlier today, you know, about, you know, Joe Biden was a transformative president. He moved. He was, you know, ran as a moderate, but very true. He moved to the left, but then he never sold it, never presented it. He was not a Barack Obama. He did not have that sort of thing. And the presidents of the future cannot simply remember. I think that there was actually a moment when we thought we want a president who's not going to be in our face every day that we don't have to think about every day. Well, I'm sorry, you can't.
- [24:29]
Jim Acosta
That may not be true.
- [24:31]
Charlie Sykes
Not anymore. Not anymore. You have to have a certain dynamism and Democrats need to think.
- [24:37]
Jim Acosta
That's a great point. And that's what Trump has captured on the right. And he's convinced enough people in the middle that the Trump show is what they want to go with right now, even if it's batshit crazy on seven out of seven days of the week. But Charlie, great to see you. Thanks so much. I think we caught a little burp there in the substack system, probably on my end. I'm not at home. I'm out in the field on assignment, you might say. But thanks, Charlie, for doing it as always. Really appreciate it.
- [25:09]
Charlie Sykes
Always fun. Thank you so much.
- [25:10]
Jim Acosta
All right, good to see it. Good to see you, Charlie. All right, thanks a lot. The wonderful Charlie Sykes. Haven't been on with him in a while and really appreciate him coming on with me. Wajahat Ali is also on the show. I'm going to go quickly to him because he has been waiting very patiently to get to him. He hosts the Left Hook and Charlie, I should mention host to the contrary on substat. You got to check out both of these podcasts. They're terrific. But I, I, you know, I was just in the mood to talk today and get into some of these issues. There's Wajahat. How are you? Good to see you.
- [25:43]
Wajahat Ali
Hey, man. I was watching an interview with Charlie. I completely disagree with him in the final five minutes with your breakdown of Mamdani and I have the data to prove it. But go. So you tell me where you want to go, buddy.
- [25:55]
Jim Acosta
No, no, no, no. I want to, I always believe in, I always have like a bunch of questions that I want to ask and, but I would much rather just keep the conversation going. And I did toy with the idea of putting you both on at the same time today. But I do love the format of talking to people one at a time. Maybe I'm an old fashioned guy and watch too many Tim Russert. Remember the old show, Tim Russert? It wasn't the Meet the Press show. He had like he did the side Hustle show and I always loved it when he would talk to me one on one. Go on, go on about Mom, Donnie, because I am endlessly fascinated by what took place in New York and I want to get your take on this and so please fire away.
- [26:34]
Wajahat Ali
I know.
- [26:34]
Jim Acosta
Charlie.
- [26:34]
Wajahat Ali
Charlie Knows me. I agree with him on a lot. But I'll also disagree with him on this point because I believe him and many others who. And I don't use it as a pejorative when it comes to old as an age. I'm talking about mindset, an old guard mindset that is entrenched in establishment politics that missed the wave that you actually touched upon in your interview that, that people want hope, people want change. The establishment or the institutions that you and I grew up with are not working for people. And so people say, you're talking about restoration, right? Biden, he had his strengths and his weaknesses, but Biden was also semi transformational. He didn't get there. But you're talking about restoration and people are like, why should we restore to an institution that did nothing for me? I want reformation. Here's the numbers. The sum of the people who voted for Zoran Bamdani also voted for. Wait for this, kids, Donald Trump in the 2024 election. Some of the people who voted for Donald Trump voted for AOC in 2016. I was talking to Mike Madrid, who, you know, who was a co founder of Lincoln Project. He's like the Latino whisperer. He said, you know, with Bernie and even Joe Rogan, who did they say they would vote for if it wasn't for Trump? Bernie Sanders. I think if Bernie would have ran in 2016, he would have beaten Trump. I think if Bernie would have ran in 2024, he would have beaten Trump. And the reason is the following, folks. People want change. They don't care about the labels anymore. Democratic, socialist, this or that. The Democratic label is like herpes, man. It's like, no offense to herpes. It's worse than Donald Trump.
- [27:57]
Jim Acosta
It's like bedbugs. You can't, you know, I get it. Yeah.
- [27:59]
Wajahat Ali
29% favorability, the lowest since 1994. And you and I have been in this game long enough that when the president, Donald Trump right now is low, people usually gravitate to the other team. Donald's at 38%, Democrats are at 29%. Now, why do I think Zoran is connecting with people? And why do I think it's not just me, it's Jon Meacham. Not a flaming far leftist is what you and me were called. You, me and Joe were called far leftists by the New York Post and Fox.
- [28:23]
Jim Acosta
We gotta talk about that. I saw that. We gotta talk about that too. But please keep. You're on a roll here.
- [28:28]
Wajahat Ali
John Meacham, historian, establishment, said last week, when you see the pendulum swift. He would not be surprised if you see a AOC president. Now, what was Durant's key message? It isn't because of his beard, isn't because he's a democratic socialist, isn't because he was born in Uganda. His overall message, folks, that's connecting with people. You know what, New York City should be affordable for everyone. And people are like, yeah, yeah, you're right. And you know what? Yeah, I don't think we should have billionaires, but they exist. I'll work with them. And you know what, let's tax the rich. And you know what? Yeah. Instead of always helping the landlords, let's help the tenants. And you know what? Let me go hard on the pain free buses. And just a data came out today that a majority of Americans today like Medicare for all. Another issue that the establishment refuses to evolve.
- [29:16]
Jim Acosta
Well, I totally agree with you. I think, I totally think. No, no, no, please feel free to keep going on a roll here. But you hit on something that I have been, this has been on my mind. And the Mamdani race did kind of cemented in my mind a little bit that at least on the Democratic side, if you're not talking about Medicare for all, on the Democratic side, if you're trying to like the half loaf, Democrats need to give up on the, on the half loaf. The half loaf has just talk about something that's hosed the Democrats over and over again. It's the half loaf.
- [29:45]
Charlie Sykes
Absolutely.
- [29:46]
Jim Acosta
When Obama had, I mean I, I guess back when Obama had the votes and he had the 2/3 majority in the center, almost 2/3 majority, he couldn't push it through with a bygone. That's what they need to be talking about. And, and these affordability issues I think are maybe a little bit oversold. I think it might be more than.
- [30:07]
Wajahat Ali
Well, you see that authenticity and sincerity trump age and experience. People want fighters, Jim. Anyone who's willing to fight against the establishment. The message is simple. This is the message. It's us versus the 1%, the many versus the billionaires. We gotta change the system. But the reason why the establishment. And by establishment, I'm talking about both Democrats and Republicans, you know, it's big money, corporate money. They can't let go. Like what I say is they can't stop sucking at the teeth. They can't let go of the acorn. Mamdani comes in and says, I'm not going to take corporate money. I'm not going to take the billionaire money. You're going to have billionaires and people are like, yeah, damn it. And then once you see even on Fox, tax billionaires. People are like, yes, tax the billionaires. Why are they and for all that.
- [30:49]
Jim Acosta
I mean, for all that I saw, Russ Vaught was on Fox News saying we're going to put people back to work. And all this stuff making it sound as though, you know, that's all, that's all that working class folks have been, have been doing over the last several years is just mooching off of the government. The moochers are the ones who made out in this big bullshit bill. The richest 1% in this country. They got their tax cuts and everybody else got the shaft. They got shafted. They totally got knifed in prison yard. I mean it's just totally nuts.
- [31:21]
Wajahat Ali
And you and I have the old school memory. We remember in 2008 the financial crisis caused by these same people. We gave a bailout to the people who caused the crisis. And now we're getting rid of our Medicaid food supplements for the richest people on earth. So people see the entire system as rig. Now I'll mention two last points. I think it's very important for people to realize the shift and why the establishment hasn't moved and it was a weakness for Joe Biden. I try to keep it fair, Jim. I don't bend the knee to Democrats or Republicans. I give praise. That's what we love about you Democrats, folks. We've been saying it for months and this is what the mistake was of the Democratic Party in 2024. The YouGov poll that came out a few months ago said the main reason, not the only reason, the main reason why many Democrats stayed at home is they're retired. But what they saw was a genocide streamed into their phones. Israel, right. They said that's the reason why we stayed home. The Democratic Party said shut up, shut up about this. Shut your mouth. It's either us or the Democrats. Now you see, Mamdani and others say it's a genocide. I disapprove of it. Some people might agree or disagree, but you saw Harry Enton on CNN last week show the poll. And there's only once before in my lifetime, Jim, that I've ever seen such a radical shift. On one issue, it was marriage equality, folks. Neen casa got the gray hairs. First Obama administration, I'm for traditional marriage. Next Obama administration, I love the gays. Gay marriage on Israel, folks, the majority of Americans, majority of young people have shifted and they want, they're asking why are my taxpayer dollars going to Israel to commit this genocide. The second issue, where you compare and contrast Madani to the Democratic establishment. I try to bring receipts and I'll stop, I promise. After Donald Trump's bullshit state of the whatever bullshit address it was, Democrats chose Alyssa Slotkin, the centrist senator from Michigan. The only thing that I remember from her uninspiring speech was that she praised Reagan. The second thing I remember is her war on the woke. The political covered that. She says we need a war on the weak and the woke. Mamdani instead did the following. I'm not gonna throw immigrants under the bus, not gonna throw transgender under the bus. I'm not gonna throw black people under the bus. I'm not gonna throw workers under the bus.
- [33:21]
Charlie Sykes
I'm not.
- [33:22]
Wajahat Ali
I'm going to lift us all up. Going back full circle. Why can't we have an affordable America for everyone? And that's the message, Jim, that terrifies the 1% and the corporate establishment. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. I'm sorry, it's your show. I had to get that off my chest.
- [33:36]
Jim Acosta
Okay. No, no, no. Well, I appreciate the rant. I love the rant. Feel free to rant anytime on this show. But, you know, first of all, I'm glad you brought up Israel. And I mean, Prime Minister Netanyahu is in town. He's with Trump. And, you know, at some point, listen, you know, what happened on October 7th was absolutely horrific. But at some point, I mean, and this is a question that I've raised with lawmakers on this show, at some point, you have to wonder when what is happening in Gaza right now boomerangs on, on Israel, on the United States, on other parts of the world. I mean, I just, you know, my concern is what's happening in Gaza right now is it's so horrific that we have just basically set back this part of the world for decades in terms of any kind of realistic peace process. And that's just not good for us. It's just not, it's not good for America. It's not good for, it's not, it's not good for the region. It's not good for anybody. And I just, it, it just makes me worry that, that, that Trump and Netanyahu have formed this alliance that, you know, come hell or high water, you know, Netanyahu is going to get what he wants out of this region, and Netanyahu is going to, he's not going to be here when we see the, the consequences of what may come down the road.
- [35:07]
Wajahat Ali
You're absolutely right. And give. I'm going to try to do in 60 seconds because I have a rant but I'll connect the dots.
- [35:12]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [35:13]
Wajahat Ali
Benjamin Net is a war criminal. The Hamas leaders who committed the terrorist attack on October 7th are a war criminal. The Israeli cabinet is the furthest right that we've ever seen. Ben GVIR people have explained to me is like imagine if you hired a KKK and elected him to be the national security minister. Smotrich, the financial minister, calls himself a proud Jewish fascist and homophobe. The cabinet of Israel voted for Israel to occupy Gaza and then to, you know, remove Palestinians to the south. What does that mean? Ethnic cleansing, A genocide.
- [35:42]
Jim Acosta
Yeah.
- [35:43]
Wajahat Ali
Trump has been dog bodied by Netanyahu in the first Trump administration. Cuz Netanyahu, you know, whispered to him and made him get out of the US Iran deal, which was a success. He blew it up. And then again, Netanyahu dog walked Trump recently and allowed our planes and our missiles to go then unilaterally strike Iran, which has ratcheted up the tension and led to nuclear proliferation. When the world sees what's happening in Gaza, sadly, Jim, they don't just see Israel, they see United States as a complicit partner. The world's most powerful country giving bombs, aid, diplomatic support to Israel that is occupying Palestinians. Israel in the past year and a half has committed 35,000 targeted strikes against Houthis in Yemen, against Lebanon, against Syria, against Iran and Palestinians. And Netanyahu and Trump are criminal birds of the same feather. Trump last week and when I said on Piers Morgan show, I said I will give Trump credit if he does the one thing that no president has done in my lifetime and that his America first base. I can't, I want to throw open my mouth. We're living in the worst timeline on earth that I actually agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson on this issue. If in his America first approach he picks up the phone like Reagan did while Israel was bombing southern Lebanon and says, I can't see this anymore. You have to end this or else I'll stop sending bombs. Trump would have gotten respect from his own base and probably got that Nobel Peace Prize. Instead he picks up the phone last week and says, I will withhold support and missiles to Israel unless you do not end these criminal indictments against Netanyahu. Because much like Donald Trump, folks, for those who don't follow Israel politics, Netanyahu needs to be in power. The second Netanyahu ends the war, steps out of power, his own people will indict him either. He's already been indicted. Excuse me. Convict him and he'll go to jail. So Netanyahu wants a forever war. He doesn't care about Israel.
- [37:35]
Charlie Sykes
He doesn't care.
- [37:35]
Wajahat Ali
He doesn't care about the region. He wants to stay in power forever. And his cabinet, folks, is the most extreme government that Israel has ever seen. Listen to their own quote.
- [37:45]
Jim Acosta
He's not interested. He's not interested in peace. He's just not interested in peace. I think you're right on the money when you say that he just doesn't want to give up power. And I think to some extent, what we saw happen on October 7 is that he was caught with his pants down, and he's been trying to make up for it ever since. And I'm sorry, but that is just not a partner for peace. And we. You just. You. That. That peace process has to get back on the rails. Talk about things that are going off the rails. I mean, Trump has just, he's just basically yielded that ground to Netanyahu. And this idea that Trump is going to be put up for a Nobel Peace Prize, I mean, it's just the whole thing is, is absolutely nuts. But watch out. We have to talk about other stuff, and I want to talk about the ICE raids, because this one really pissed me off. This thing that we saw in Los angeles yesterday at MacArthur park, roughly 100 federal agents is, according to the LA Times, federal immigration enforcement agents, including Border Patrol, other law enforcement officers, and armored vehicles gathered along the perimeter of MacArthur park in Los Angeles is West Lake area in a show of force. And they, they did this operation there in the park. Karen Bass, the mayor there, apparently stopped her car on the way to City hall to watch as officers on horseback and soldiers in tactical gear passed by a playground while children at a summer day camp were hurried indoors. I mean, what the hell is going on in this country with these ICE operations and these, these immigration operations, when children at a summer camp have to be hurried indoors? To me, again, you know, we're going to see $80 billion, apparently, in more border enforcement, what they call border enforcement, but really, it's sort of establishing a secret police force in this country.
- [39:40]
Charlie Sykes
You're absolutely right.
- [39:42]
Jim Acosta
I don't know how we're going to, how we're going to stomach three years of this.
- [39:46]
Wajahat Ali
We're not gonna be able to stomach three years for it. Because Donald Trump in October, folks. I keep the receipts and I'm gonna bring some receipts on Jim's show. I take Trump literally and seriously, and I'm A masochist. I've been following these people for a long time, people like Stephen Miller. I know their white supremacist agenda. I'm not mincing my words. It's a white supremacist agenda. This is a combination of white supremacy and greed, racism and capitalism in the form of Donald Trump and this current administration. And folks, in that bull bullshit, billionaire bill that's gonna cut a trillion dollars from Medicaid. What Democrats should have talked about instead of smearing Madani on the weekend shows was that it also gives $180 billion to ICE. So now folks, ICE, I'm not exaggerating. ICE has a bigger budget that some countries entire budget when it comes to their military, right? It goes from 4,000 officers to 10,000 officers. And you have to ask yourself, well, what is Trump gonna do? You don't have to think about it. In October, he quoted Hitler yet again and said he was the first president to say, I will unleash the National Guard in the military against the quote, enemy from within. I have always brought up that quote. Cuz I said take Trump literally and seriously. The day before July 4th, last Thursday, guess what, folks? 300 marines were deployed. Where? Not against our enemies abroad. In Florida, you have thousands of agents with Marines in the National Guard terrorizing la. Not undocumented immigrants. I'm talking about la. Legal immigrants. Undocumented immigrants. Citizens. They're picking up people who look brown. You and me are the son of immigrants. Stephen Miller, according to the Wall Street Journal, you know, that flaming leftist publication deliberately unleash these agents to Home Depot and 711 to cause provocation. Why would you want provocation? Because you want a response. Well, what happens when there is a response? Then you unleash, wait for it. The National Guard and the military. Ice. I'm going to say this and some other people are saying it is Donald Trump's Gestapo, his secret police, masked armed agents terrorizing Americans without any accountability, not showing their badge. And as you said, and we've been saying for a month now, folks, they've gone to preschools, elementary schools, they were about to go to Dodgers Stadium. And thanks to grassroots leadership, Dodgers said, no, no, no, don't come.
- [41:58]
Jim Acosta
Yeah, thank goodness the Dodgers said get the hell out of here. Right, we're gonna have to me, you know, when, when they say, and I've said this on my show a bunch of times, you know, one of the lies of last year, I mean, obviously was Trump saying that they're eating the cats and dogs in Springfield, Ohio. The other Big lie of last year was we're going to go after the criminals and the gang bangers as part of the mass deportation operations in this country, which was, it was just, it was just a complete lie. That was just an absolute outright lie. The, the, I mean, I've been watching Stephen Miller and Donald Trump play this game for the last eight years. They just want to change the demographic makeup of this country and they want to put, and they don't mind putting the country through hell to get to that end result. And they just will not admit it. They won't admit that publicly. But, you know, and I just, you know, if you, if you're going to be these big courageous MAGA guys like that you claim to be, just come out and say it's. Just come out and say that you want the United States of America to be Les Brown. I mean, at least I would say, okay, well, at least he came out and said it. But they just.
- [43:02]
Wajahat Ali
Stephen Miller says it. Yeah, Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon, folks. And again, I'm a masochist, been following them for years. You know, if I can say to your audience real quick, you know, their end game, this is what Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon, when asked by actual press, you know, what books do you recommend? You know the book they recommend a 1970s dystopian fictional novel called Camp of the Saints, which is one of the two major pieces of literature that are cited by white nationalists. The other one is Turner Diaries that radicalized Timothy McVeigh, who before 911 was responsible for the biggest terrorist attack in the United States. What is Camp of the Saints? It's a dystopian novel that warns of a foreign brown horde that takes over Europe. Stephen Miller has said that one of the worst things that happened to America is the 1965 Immigration Nationality act, which removed the restrictive quotas that were put in place for four decades. 1965 Immigration Nationality act that was passed on the heels of the civil rights movement allowed people like my father to come here as a young student. The increase in Asians and brown people that came to America was a result of them taking advantage of the Immigration Nationality Act. And all the data shows that immigrants do three things that Donald Trump doesn't do. They commit fewer crimes than people born in this country. Donald Trump is a criminal. They pay their taxes, even undocumented folks who don't have to pay their taxes. And wherever they go, they help the economy. Stephen Miller wants to make America white again by any destructive means necessary. Which is why I've Always said, and this is the analogy that even Jonathan Metzl has used in his book Dying of Whiteness, a great book, that if given a choice between sharing a home with a person like you or me, or burning down the house, Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon and that racist part of MAGA will burn down the village. And I give you the self destruction of America in the past six months.
- [44:51]
Charlie Sykes
Jim.
- [44:52]
Jim Acosta
No, and I hate. Listen, I called out Stephen Miller for his white nationalist bullshit way back in 2017 when he and I had that confrontation in the White House briefing room over the Statue of Liberty. And he was echoing white nationalist talking points back then, trying to claim that the Statue of Liberty was not a symbol for immigrants coming to this country. And then he proceeded to call me or to say I had a cosmopolitan bias, which if you go back and you look at that rhetoric comes right out of the white nationalist chat rooms and all that crazy shit. It's funny that you mentioned MAGA because at the beginning of this conversation I envisioned that we would talk about this Epstein cover up. Curious what your thoughts are on all of that because MAGA is not so unified right now. MAGA has been split in two. And all of the right wing goofballs who have been clamoring for the Epstein files over the last several years are up in arc arms right now. I don't think they know what to do. I think only Charlie Kirk is still on Trump's side in all of this. I mean, it's kind of remarkable.
- [45:55]
Wajahat Ali
You know, I predicted it a couple of weeks ago. I said, folks, I'm a masochist, I've been following these people. This is an issue that won't necessarily crack up maga. Right. But what I'm looking at to combat fascism is you want to put cracks in fascism, sand in the gears, death by a thousand cuts. And you know, to paraphrase Tropic Thunder, if you know this quote, you know this quote. I can't say it. Never go full conspiracy theorist. They went full conspiracy theorists on Epstein. They radicalized their base for years. It's part and parcel of QANON and the deep state that you and me are part of this liberal elite run by the Jews who are abducting children and creating a sex trafficking ring. I'm not making this up, folk. And Epstein was at the center of it. And the Libs and the Dems were part and parcel of it. And there was a list of who radicalized the base. Don Van Dan Bongino, who was not part of the deep state as deputy director of FBI, who else radicalized the base? Kash Patel, who's the FBI director, and Pam Bondi. And now they lied to their base. I have Pam Bondi said, I have the files right here. And I'm glad Charlie brought those. The receipts of the binder is full of files that were given to Libs of TikTok and all these other people. And now they're saying, oh, no, don't worry about that missing minute. Don't worry about the Epstein files. It's all good. And I don't know if you've paid attention, but while you're on with Charlie, Roseanne's come out. There's a fissure with Roseanne. Benny Johnson, the plagiarist who got paid by Russia, he's come out with a video right now. Tucker Carlson's come out criticizing Alex. It's Alex. It's official.
- [47:25]
Jim Acosta
Alex Jones was crying. Wasn't Alex Jones? He burst into tears or something while driving?
- [47:29]
Wajahat Ali
Yeah, he was bursting. The tears because they feel betrayed. And, folks, I'm telling you this. Once you radicalize your base, you need red meat. So I, I did this tweet right before I was watching you and Charlie, and I did this tweet. I could be proven wrong. I think what Trump did today, clearly, bro. Like, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm like, yo, what are you hiding, bro? Like, what are you hiding there?
- [47:48]
Charlie Sykes
Right?
- [47:48]
Jim Acosta
I know. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either. He sounded like he got his hand caught in the cookie jar. And no, I didn't take the cookie. I. What are you talking about? Why are you still talking about cookies?
- [48:00]
Wajahat Ali
No one's talking about cookies. And so. And you and me know that Epstein, we have him on tape. Michael Wolfe said that Epstein said that Trump was his closest friend before they had the falling off. Donald Trump is on record saying, yeah, Epstein, he likes the young girls. He likes them young. And then we saw the video of them partying together, looking at girls. And so you add all this up.
- [48:19]
Jim Acosta
Looking like sleazy dudes. Yeah.
- [48:22]
Wajahat Ali
I feel he cannot escape. This is my prediction. If I'm wrong, I'll come back and I'll eat my words. I always admit when I'm wrong.
- [48:27]
Jim Acosta
Wait, I mean, he cannot escape this. As in, he has to throw someone under the bus.
- [48:32]
Wajahat Ali
Someone has to be thrown under the bus for Epstein. And I wonder who it is. Is it going to be Bondi? Is it going to be Bongino? But he's going to have to give the MAGA wolves some Red meat. Because they're not going to forget this, Jim. They're all right, listen, Pizzagate, remind people what happened with Pizzagate. Remember, the guy got radicalized, came in with guns and saying, no, it's so true.
- [48:53]
Jim Acosta
It's right. That's exactly right. But, you know, the funny thing about this is, is that. And it's sort of describe it as sort of MAGA inception, because, you know, they were the ones who were clamoring for the release of these files for years. And I think partly because they were sort of ashamed of all of the video of Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, you know, doing that little jig at the party and acting like creeps. And, you know, and so they had to. For years and years, they've been saying, oh, this Democratic person is in there, and that Democratic person is in there. And now this whole thing is blown up in their face. It's completely blown up in their face. I mean, Pam, that. The fact that they tried to put that Memo out over 4th of July weekend, the fact that you have Pam Bondi on Fox saying, I have the list on my desk. And they all played this game for, like, the last two years. Trump, J.D. vance, they all. Bongino, Cash, Patel, they all did it.
- [49:50]
Wajahat Ali
And now you're absolutely right. They're the architects of their own disaster. And I think I made a point about that earlier today, is that this is how you. This is like a textbook on how not to quash a conspiracy. Everything they've done in the past week has fueled the flames where even I'm now, Jim. I'm like, yo, what are you hiding, bro? Like, like even I am, too.
- [50:12]
Jim Acosta
And I will say. I will say that I used to think that this Epstein thing was cuckoo ness. They would say, oh, he was murdered. It wasn't suicide. And it may end up still being a suicide. I don't know. I really don't know. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it for years because I thought it was just a bunch of Alex Jones goofball Benny Johnson bullshit. And now I'm like, why is Trump so defensive about this? And they asked Pam Bondi about the missing minute. It was a New York Post reporter, I think, what's. What's going on with the missing minute and the tape? And then Trump jumps in and tries to answer the question for Pam Bondi. Yeah.
- [50:47]
Wajahat Ali
And for you, for all you need to see that, because there's more important things happening. There's, like, great things, but there's also tragedies. Why are we Talking about this. And it's like, now we're gonna talk about it even more. And that missing minute that you're talking about, you know, folks, Epstein was under suicide watch. There were two guards, and the next thing you know, oh, yeah, he killed himself. So everyone was asking, yo, if he's on 24. 7 suicide watch, how did he die? And now they, with their own mouths, have kind of confirmed and repeated a story about the missing minute. So if I'm a conspiracy theorist, I'm like, what missing minute? Who's on?
- [51:20]
Jim Acosta
And I'm not a. I'm not a conspiracy theory person. And so when you and I are talking about this, I hope, you know, years from now, people don't take the tape and say, see Jim and Wajahad, they're conspiracy theorists, and what the hell's going on? And blah, blah, blah, and shame on you. And the reason why I bring that up is because we have to talk about how foxnews.com came after us. Oh, I don't. I try not to call Fox News Fox News, but it is the name of the website. Fox News.com came after us. And it said, you know, two former liberal cable news stars were, who were essentially discarded by their former networks this year, floated conspiracy theories that Trump will rig next year's midterms. This is what foxnews.com wrote. Ex CNN anchor Jim Acosta and ex MSNBC anchor Joy Reid, who were among the media's sharpest critics of Trump's refrain about not really losing the 2020 election, openly speculated next year's midterms won't be on the level. Okay, first of all, I had an interview with James Carville, and we both talked about the notion that shit. Trump might try to pull some shit next year. He tried to pull some shit in 2020. And I love the way Fox News, fox news.com describes this about Trump's refrain about not really losing the 2020 election. He lied. He lost the election and he lied and he incited an insurrection. And you were part of that, too, because you were on with Joy.
- [52:38]
Wajahat Ali
Yeah. So things go full circle in a beautiful way. And if they're watching, I want them to get triggered by this. I want to bring receipts real quick. Donald Trump inside of the violent insurrection. I remember in 2019, go look at all my tweets. I said, he will not leave peacefully. I was called crazy. The libtard. What do they say? Trump derangement syndrome, folks. He did not leave peacefully. To this day, he still promotes the lie. 80% of Republican voters believed the lie. He ended up pardoning. I said he would pardon all of them. He pardoned 1600 violent insurrectionists. He has also said that he wants to terminate the Constitution. This was before the 2024 election. He'll be a dictator for a day. After got elected. He quoted Napoleon. He flirting with running again in 2028. They released merch. He's quoted Hitler, like I said, he will unleash the National Guard. And I'll say this on record because I was talking to Joy about this. This man who's a criminal, this man who incited a violent insurrection. This man who has said openly, you know, praising authoritarian leaders. This man who says he wants to, you know, terminate the Constitution. This man who's getting expansive powers by the completely, in my opinion, corrupt Supreme Court just even right now. 30 minutes ago. Sorry, you were saying something?
- [53:43]
Jim Acosta
No, I was just gonna. I was gonna jump in and just say. The New York Times just reported this. On July 2, Justice Department explorers using criminal charges against election officials. Such a path could drastically raise the stakes for federal investigations of state or county officials, bringing the department and the threat of criminalization into the election system. That's the headline. It's a pretty chunky headline. And then here's the story in the New York Times. Senior Justice Department officials are exploring whether they can bring criminal charges against state or local election officials if the Trump administration determines they have not sufficiently safeguarded their computer systems, according to people familiar with the discussions. Now, to me, right there, that suggests that the Trump administration is going to could possibly harass state or local election officials. I don't think that that's like foaming at the mouth Trump derangement syndrome shit. That is. I'm just reading from the goddamn New York Times about what they're playing.
- [54:40]
Wajahat Ali
We also heard his own words when he picked up the phone and called the Secretary of State of Georgia, Republican Brett. I'm forgetting his name. And said, find me to win. Yeah. And then we also know to bring it back full circle. And I'm willing to go there. And anyone who's watching on Fox and New York Post, I'm your far left writer, Wajat Ali. Quote me away. Going back full circle. Why would you need to put $180 billion in ice and create your own personal gestapo? And being a student of history, well, when you manufacture crises when there are none, because Stephen Miller says we're under invasion even though we're not. And when you want to suspend habeas corpus like they do, and when you want to use the Alien Enemies act, which has only used four times before during wartime. And Stephen Miller thinks we're under war because we're under invasion. And now you have masked agents. Well, I don't know if I'm a student of history and things are going really bad for MAGA and Donald Trump. And this is the same man who's a criminal and has threatened or bullied a Republican to find the votes and hid documents and pardoned 1600 violent insurrectionists and incited a violent insurrectionist. Violent insurrection. And through Mike Pent, under the bus. Yeah, it's a crazy gym. To assume that, like dictators of the past, he would create an emergency and say, listen, things are crazy. It's antifa. It's the war, it's the Venezuelans. It's the power vested in me as the executive commander in chief to declare martial law. Don't worry, these midterms will come back. We're going to punt them for two months. Oh, and anyone who protests, by the way, in my first administration, I wanted to shoot you in the knee, but Mark Esperance said no. But now I have no guardrails and I have the Gestapo.
- [56:20]
Jim Acosta
Yeah. And you can just sum it up as he pulled that shit before, he might try to pull it again. I mean, you know that this is what they tried to do in 2020. They tried to overturn an election. That is a fact. That is what they did. And so it passed as prologue. They might try that shit again. I mean, I just, you know, like, to me, the receipts are already, you know, are already in the bag. We already have the receipts. You know, we have receipts from four years ago. And Brad Raffensperger, you're absolutely right, being first among them. You know, I do want to bring this full circle and have a little bit of hope at the end of all of this, because I see the Millennium Falcon over your head right there. And the ransom. I think I was on your show. We talked about Andor. I think since we spoke, I finished the second season of Andor. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. And we're both Star wars nerds. So, I mean, are we gonna get a Season 3?
- [57:18]
Wajahat Ali
What do we think the Season 3 will be? The American people. Andor Season 1, Season 2 was fantastic. The creator of Andor Season 1, Season 2, Tony Gilroy, has openly said that Andor Season 1, Season 2 WAS based upon human conditions throughout time when it comes to authoritarianism, his words, and fascism. And what Andrew shows you is that average people, average Joses and Janes you don't need a lightsaber. None of those people have superpowers. How they get radicalized in real time due to oppression and how they band together. And a great quote from Rogue One because andor leads up to Rogue One. Rebellions are built on hope.
- [57:58]
Jim Acosta
I love it, Jim.
- [58:00]
Wajahat Ali
The people, they're missing the moment. The establishment is missing the moment. They're missing people's righteous rage. It's a righteous rage. They're missing people's desperation, their hunger. They're missing people's desire for fighters. And I do believe what we saw with the no Kings rally, what we've seen with people come together for immigrants, what we've seen people do with boycotting with their dollar, what they're seeing with Mamdani, right? Whether you like him or not, what does he represent? He represents people saying, enough is enough. We'll ride with Mamdani, this 33 year old Muslim American with a foreign name, just like they rode with Barack Hussein Obama in 2008 following the disastrous war on terror and the economic crisis that you and I survived. And I think the people who capture this passion and this desire for a righteous fight, they will be the ones rewarded. That is my prediction.
- [58:48]
Jim Acosta
Rebellions were built on hope. You're absolutely right. And they will be again. I predict. And I do think what we were saying earlier and what I was talking about with Charlie a little bit earlier is true. And that is it happens organically. It happens from the people up. And you're absolutely right. The establishment, you know, I think in this day and age, the establishment is going to be led by the people in all of this. And you know, we don't know what the set of policies will be. We don't know exactly what the politics will be come this time next year, perhaps two years from now. But I do think, as we saw in 2007-2008 with Barack Obama, a little bit of what we saw in the New York mayoral election with mom Donnie, you know, the people will find a way to find hope. And I just think that I'm an optimist. Maybe I'm a foolish optimist, but that's what I see coming down the pike. Perhaps not at light speed, not at light speed like we would all want it to be.
- [59:50]
Charlie Sykes
It's a long walk.
- [59:51]
Wajahat Ali
I think what we have to inform your viewers, and I've always said, is people want to outsource to a superhero to come save the day. It's not gonna happen. It's gonna be us. And when I said you Know, fascism dies with a death by a thousand cuts. Every single person going back to andor has a role. Everyone has a superpower. Everyone has to do something at a local level, even in your home, to not radicalize your children to maga. Right, to lead with kindness to the language you use. When it comes to immigrants, this is how we have the long march towards freedom. So anyone who thinks snap of your fingers, 2026 is going to get better. Nope. To quote Bruce Springsteen. And I think this is the anniversary, right, of born in the USA. It was like 41st and we're so old. The 40th anniversary, born in the USA. Which, by the way, go back and listen to that album, folks. It isn't what Mago thinks it is. Just like, yeah, bring it back full circle. And speaking about pop culture, and I'll end on a pop culture note for you. I love the fact there's a movie coming out this week in which an undocumented immigrant, some would say alien, fights an evil billionaire on behalf of the underprivileged and majority and wins. His name is Superman. And not all heroes wear capes. And I believe, I really believe, folks, Superman was created by two Jewish immigrants during the rise of Nazism. And what he represents is kindness, hope, decency, helping everyone, helping everyone and preserving life. And so I think, you know, everyone, wear your cape. Everyone has a job. Jim has a job. Moms have a job, dads have a job, teachers have a job. People running for office have a job. Immigrants have a job. This is a full contact sport to reform and save our democracy and fight against fascism.
- [61:37]
Jim Acosta
Well, I will say as I take off my glasses, who are you?
- [61:41]
Wajahat Ali
Who are you?
- [61:42]
Charlie Sykes
What then?
- [61:43]
Jim Acosta
I do believe in truth, justice and the American way. Great to see you. Thanks a lot for doing this. Really appreciate it.
- [61:51]
Wajahat Ali
Thank you, sir. Next time, let's do it. Thanks, Jim.
- [61:53]
Charlie Sykes
We'll do it.
- [61:54]
Wajahat Ali
Thanks, everyone.
- [61:55]
Jim Acosta
Take care.
- [61:55]
Charlie Sykes
All right.
- [61:56]
Jim Acosta
My man Wajahad Ali. Excellent comments from him today. Just really enjoyed having him on. And we had to end it on a little bit of Andor. And I'm glad he brought up Superman, which is coming out in theaters. He's absolutely right. Sometimes aliens do save the day. And Superman is proof of that. I did want to end just very quickly to say, folks, when you see Donald Trump saying, well, I might be changing my mind on Ukraine, I guess he was asked about sending additional weapons to fend off Russian attacks, according to New York Times. And I guess on Monday he said that we have to, we have to send more weapons. They have to be able to defend themselves. And this was received very well over in Ukraine. And I want the Ukrainians to have hope, but I don't want them to have false hope. And I hope, and this is a different kind of hope, that this is not another one of Donald Trump's distractions, his deceptions, which serve as distractions. The people of Ukraine deserve better than that. Remember, this is the same Donald Trump who in recent days has claimed that they're not cutting Medicaid, who was just today saying, why are you asking about Jeffrey Epstein? He's a thoroughly dishonest individual. And so, you know, to put that kind of hope out there that the Ukrainians are going to be getting more weapons, I just hope it's not a false hope that he is sending to Ukraine instead of the arms that they desperately need in battling back the Russians in that war, that long war that has gone on too long. My thanks to Charlie Sykes. My thanks to Wadhat Ali. Both great talkers, really enjoyed the conversations today. We may not agree on, as Wajat was saying as he came on, may not agree with Charlie Sykes. I may not agree with Charlie on everything. I may not agree with Wajahat on everything. But it is great to have these kinds of conversations. And that was what I had in mind for today's show. So I really appreciate everybody tuning in, still reporting. I'm Jim Acosta. Not in Washington right now, as you might have noticed from the different background today, but still reporting. I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good evening, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Take care.
- [64:10]
Wajahat Ali
Bye Bye.