← The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast
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We heard you.
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Nine years of bring back the snack.
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Wrap and you've won.
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But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the Hot Honey snack Wrap.
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Now you've really won.
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Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.
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This one might be a little controversial.
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I think it's going to be because.
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B
Today we are jumping into all things dating apps. One lady wrote in and said, well, I met a married man who is a registered sex offender and an adult creator. No more apps for me. I think for some people listening, they might think like, yeah, a conservative Christian wouldn't go on a dating app. Listen to this. About 10 to 20% of all married couples met via dating apps. Now it is a primary method for new marriages.
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A
That's insane.
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B
I wonder what Bill Gothard would think about dating apps.
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A
I think he would love dating apps. And you know, why?
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B
What's going on, guys? We're back for another episode of the Ginger and Jeremy podcast and this one might be a little controversial.
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A
I think it's going to be.
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B
People have a lot of opinions about this topic because today we are jumping into all things dating apps. And I get it, there's a lot of mixed opinion. And so I'm excited to hear your opinion on some of this, Ginge. And here's a cool piece about this episode. We asked you guys, our listeners through Ginger's social media, some of your best and your worst stories from dating apps.
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A
Yeah, let's get into it. This is going to be good.
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B
Yeah, we're going to share some of those. So here we go. But, Ginge, let's just acknowledge at the start that for someone who's single, who wants to be married, that can be really difficult.
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Can be. Because there's so much there, it's difficult to be in the dating world. Find somebody you think, like, am I just going to meet this person at Target when I'm strolling through with my cup of coffee in hand? Am I going to meet this person at church? How am I going to meet my significant other?
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B
Yeah. I remember being in Laredo, and I wrote about this in the Hope we hold, thinking, like, how in the world am I going to meet my wife? You know? And the Lord brought you through bringing Ben and Jessa into my life just in a way I could have never planned. And it's cool to look back at how the Lord serendipitously, we would say, providentially brings people together. But when you're in it, I think there's a lot of tension, especially as a Christian single person, because you're like, I want to trust the Lord and his plan. I don't want to, like, force something. But I also don't want to just sit around and do nothing. And especially for singles who are getting older and saying, like, I really want to be married. And they get to that season, like, I was where I'm like, oh, my buddies are getting married. I remember this one story. Tim Laughlin won't mind me sharing this. My buddy Tim was just like, totally incredible conversion story. Was, like, hardcore into drugs and just totally, you know, not walking with the Lord at all. And the Lord used, you know, our relationship. He had a lot of questions, and he came to Faith in Christ, gets converted, and like, a year later meets his wife. And he actually felt bad for me. He said, dude, I'm like, out here just living in the world. The Lord meets me, saves me, I think, gives me this incredible wife. And you're over here, like, walking with Jesus, single, and all you want is to be married. He's like, sorry, dude. And I'm like, man, that's just how it works, you know?
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That's so crazy.
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But it can be tough seeing your friends, like, and you're single, you're getting older.
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A
Yeah. I'd imagine that's something that a lot of people struggle with. And it's interesting when you think about, like, dating apps. There are so many people. We actually know quite a few who have met, yes. Through, like, a Christian dating app. And it's funny. Like, that's your number one joke when people ask, how did we meet? Like, they always ask. They're like, how did you guys meet? Jeremy always says, farmersonly.com that's what he always says. And I'm like, are you kidding me?
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B
Because it's a dad joke. I go back to over and over all the time.
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A
Like, it's constant.
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If you're one of the lucky ones. You just heard me say that, then you're welcome. I have to stop because I'm at that stage of life when I tell a joke and if it makes me happy, I repeat it a thousand times.
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A
Yep.
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And then inevitably people are like, hey, dude, you've told me that like four times. I'm like, my bad dog.
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A
But you're in that season of life, babe.
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B
I think some people, if they know you and your story as like a duggar, to think of, like a really conservative person being on a dating app. I think that's the reason I tell the joke is they're like, whoa, she was on a dating app. You know? But I think for some people listening, they might think like, yeah, a conservative Christian wouldn't go on a dating app. And maybe that's because some of the dating apps they're thinking of are like, leaning into, like, hookup culture.
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Yeah.
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Where it's like, it's superficial.
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Yep.
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It's. Yeah. It's not about like, I want a.
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Legitimate relationship that's gonna last and something that is God honoring.
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Yeah.
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And I think that, that, that's tricky because a lot of people will use relationships dating just in general. They'll use it for their own gain. And yeah.
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It's a convenient way to meet someone for your selfish end. That's how, like, the hookup culture would look at it. And so you've got apps that are designed for that. And I think as we get into the conversation too, that's going to be a component. Even as you look at like, Christian dating apps, which we're not against because. But you want to think like, okay, what is the appeal? Or what's the draw? And if it's focused primarily on the physical or the superficial without having an avenue to go deeper, that could be problematic. But here's the thing. I want to read a couple things, because whatever generation you're in as a listener, things have changed because of the Internet.
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Yeah.
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And listen to this. About 10 to 20% of all married couples met via dating apps. Recent Data shows that 27% of couples married in 2025 met through a dating site.
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Really?
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Or an app. Making it now. Now it is a primary method for new marriages.
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That's insane.
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So no longer is it like, like, oh, yeah, dating app. Be like, no way. Now it's become like a quarter of marriages. Over a quarter of engaged couples in 2025 connected on apps like Hinge Upward Bumble. Long term trends, the percentage of couples who met online and eventually married rose from 2% in 1998. 2%. So think of how quickly our world has changed. I was 1198.
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What was the Internet like back then?
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We were terrified of Y2K.
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Yeah. But I'm thinking about like those old computers. It's like, that's crazy.
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Oh, yeah.
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And they still met on there. What in the world?
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Well, that's true. I mean, it was like the advent of the Internet in that sense. But nearly 50% of couples who met online eventually married in 2017. So. Yeah. Crazy how quickly it's changed the landscape of dating.
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Yeah.
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And to your point, we have so two couples in particular. One guy got on Christian Mingle, I think, met this really incredible girl and then told his buddy, hey, dude, you should get on as well.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And they both got married in a very, like, in a, in close time span to each other.
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A
Yep.
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B
And that's just becoming more and more frequent.
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A
It's so insane when you think about it, because, yeah, there's so many ways where people can connect and like find their significant other. And I think that also a lot of people have a lot of fear around it, which we're going to get into because it, it can be one of those things. Even when we were talking about relationships before on the pod, talking about getting to know that person and knowing people who know them, that can feel scary. Even the initial jump into a conversation I'd imagine would be very scary because you're like, are you an actual person on the other side of this or is it just somebody who is posing as someone and they're somebody else? You know, so that's the tricky part. It's like there has to be a level of vulnerability and trust that you're putting out there initially, which is kind of scary.
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So the question that raises is, is that the problem of the medium, like this dating app lends itself to people being two faced or presenting as something they're not, or is that simply the nature of people? So we asked our listeners about best or worst experiences on dating apps.
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We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Brooklyn Bedding.
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Brooklyn Bedding. It's been the solution for us to give us the best night's sleep, which is so important, especially when sleep is hard to come by with little kids.
- [10:19]
A
Oh yeah, we, before we had a Brooklyn bed, we would roll around, wake up with neck cramps, just achy, you know, it was hard to get good night's sleep.
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B
You were never happy with our mattresses.
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Never until Brooklyn Beds. And we have actually like we'll, we'll hang out after we're awake Saturday mornings, have the kids come in bed.
- [10:37]
B
Actually a problem.
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A
And it's kind of Wonderful. It's hard to get out of bed.
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You're not going to get a better deal. Brooklynbetting.com we want to take a break.
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A
From this episode to tell you about Poncho.
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B
All right. You know, something's quality when you wear a piece of clothing and everybody compliments you on it. They're not complimenting me. I'm an old man. But they are complimenting the shirt. It is sharp. It's high quality. I love it. This color. They have other colors. I've got to get them. I love my poncho shirts.
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A
Yeah. And they're broken in from day one, which is something that you've loved. So they have that, like, worn feel. Super soft, comfortable. But they're durable as well.
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B
And here's something I didn't expect about Poncho. I hadn't heard about Poncho, but they've been an established brand for years. And all of my buddies are like, dude, is that a poncho shirt? And now I see it everywhere. And actually, Brian Corcoran told me the other day, he's like, bro, you're wearing a poncho shirt. I was like, yeah, I love these things. He goes, I used to model for them. He used to be the guy on the website.
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A
That's awesome.
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And he said, like, looking off into the distance, and he says, man, he has, like, five of them. And he loves their shirts still. That was, like, six years ago.
- [12:05]
A
They're the best.
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B
Yeah, they're great. So get a poncho shirt for yourself or for someone you love, if you actually love them. This is a great Gift.
- [12:13]
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Go to ponchooutdoors.com ginger and enter your email for $10 off your first order.
- [12:19]
B
Yeah. And you'll get free shipping as well. That's poncho outdoors. P o n c-h ooutdoors.com Ginger, you'll get 10 bucks off when you put your email in. And free shipping. It's a great deal. And when they ask how you heard about them, let Them know that we sent you.
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A
Now back to the episode.
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B
One lady wrote in and said, well, I met a married man who is a registered sex offender and an old adult content creator. No more apps for me. And I totally get how you'd go, oh yeah, like, like there's a bunch of people on there who are trying to pose as something they're not. No apps for me. But I wonder if, is that because of the app? Because I know someone very close to me who got married. I mean this is a crazy story. Ginge married this man, her first husband had died. Married a man, five, six, seven years happily married, no suspicion of anything. One day he leaves the house normal. Later that day the feds show up at the house looking for a man by the name of the wife had never heard of. Who's that? Show him a picture. She goes, that's not his name, his name's this. That's my husband comes to turn out he's running from the law. Had a completely different identity, had been like a con man for years, had done this repeatedly. And there are stories of people who go, I don't know, I married a monster I didn't know. And that wasn't through a dating app. So that can happen aside from, you.
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A
Know what I mean. But I think that part of it is too. You have an idea in your mind when you meet somebody naturally, organically that they're gonna, there's a little bit more trust there. Cause you almost wanna think that they're well intentioned and that they're more trustworthy because you didn't meet em through an app.
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B
Right?
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A
Because when somebody goes to an app a lot of times, even on dating shows, there's a lot of reality dating shows now. And it's interesting because a lot of those people will say, oh well, I tried going and like asking friends if they knew anyone. I tried trying to find love this way. But then now I end up on a dating show and asking experts to match me with somebody. And they've tried all these different avenues because they were like, oh, I'm going to give up on the dating apps. You figure it out for me. Bring the experts in and have them matchmake me with somebody. And I think that there's a certain level of like, you really gotta like know who's on the other end of the screen. And that's the scary thing. It's, I think.
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B
But no matter what though, you're gonna have to discover that because let's say you bump into someone in a grocery store yeah. And oh my goodness. And you guys start chatting and next thing you know, you're talking for an hour and a half and then you have a date that night. You still have no idea who this person is.
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A
That's for sure. I'm just thinking of like even in our case. Right. We were set up through knowing like you knew my brother in law, Ben, and he knew people that like you, you were connected with. And so there's connections there that makes it feel like, oh, wow, I know who this person is a little bit getting into it. So it's just tough. But then outside of that, most people don't even have that.
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B
Right.
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The, the majority of people probably, yeah. They'll just meet somebody through whatever means.
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And there might be a connection and then you get to know that person's world.
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Yep.
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Later person's world is either going to verify what you know about that person or betray it.
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A
Yep, exactly.
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The guy. And that's where I think it's so important for singles to not to, to listen, to not ignore their head as their heart leads. Right. Like, but I don't know him to be rude and mean. And yeah, I'm starting to see the people in his life and they're telling me that and I'm seeing that, but he doesn't treat me that way. Yeah, well, no, no, hold on a second. Like, listen to your head. Listen to all the people, the data that you're getting as you're exposed to this person's life. Because you are, you do. Whether you meet him on a dating app or in a grocery aisle or at church, you have to get to know this person and that's going to be part of the context, like their life and their family and their friends. You're going to discover who that person is for sure. I'm curious about this. When I mentioned yesterday that we would be doing this topic today on the pod, I asked you, I wonder what Bill Gothard would think about dating apps.
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A
You know what I said?
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B
I do know what you said. Why don't you share with the people?
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A
I said, I think he would love dating apps and you know why? So he was very much focused on safeguarding yourself, which sounds funny, like the dating app. But like he would probably have said, okay, I think the dating apps could work because then you can have accountability of like a parent, have them log in on the dating app and they can see all of your conversations and then you're not in person so there's no chance of you falling into connection.
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B
No sin. And then Also, no. Like, yeah, okay.
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A
And so I actually would think that he would probably be a fan. I don't know.
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B
Do you think the courtship model, in a sense, was kind of like a dating app? Because you'd have these young guys go to the father and basically go, all I know about her is I think she's pretty. She's a Christian. We've not spent time because we can't date, So I want to get to know her. That's essentially the start of what a dating app is like.
- [18:18]
A
Yeah. So that's the side where it does kind of line up with the courtship thing. Because of the level. Well, our idea of courtship, I'd say, because there's more commitment on the front end before you actually know the person. You almost have to be in an official courtship to even talk at all. And that's the side of it where I think a lot of people were kind of scared off by that, or they thought, oh, I wish I would have had more time to get to know you in a natural setting. But here everything seems so formalized initially, before I even have said more than hello to you. And I think that that is where it feels more like a major commitment. And with the dating app thing. Cause once you meet somebody on there and then you're gonna meet up for coffee, then that's a commitment. It's like, ooh. You aren't fully committed to that person.
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B
You don't know what you're gonna get.
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A
You literally have no clue what you're showing up to. I was literally just reading a comment here from someone who sent us a message saying that she was like, I was invited to coffee. And she said, I was invited out on a date. And when I showed up, he had already finished his cup of coffee. So I'm like, oh, my goodness.
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B
That all she said?
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A
I can't find the other part. It looks like she had. She wrote more, but I can't see. I can't see the other part. But I was like, oh, my word. He's like, you want to go out for coffee? And then he's already done with his. He already finished his drink before she.
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B
Got let, you know about. He's very efficient, you know, like, already lets you know something about this guy.
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A
Yeah, he's.
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B
He's functional.
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A
Not very caring. Caring your kind. It sounds like thinking of others. Oh, my goodness.
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B
Yeah. Interesting. That's gotta be a component to this whole thing. And I wonder if people. You know, I think everybody's probably gone on a blind date at some point, but you're analyzing everything.
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A
Yeah, right.
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B
Like, you show up, you see him in person. You're going, okay, this kind of looks like their photograph. Okay. Oh, their voice. I'm not used to their voice. So how do they behave? How do they act? I mean, you're thinking. You're analyzing things on a way you wouldn't if you had just met them in a random place, time. Like, because you're just bumping into people you don't know. You're not, like, putting pressure on it. So it's like this pressurized moment. Like, okay, we both acknowledged each other on the app. We got in contact. We agreed to a place and time. You know, could this be my person? It's just crazy, but I wonder if that pressure. But that was kind of like the courtship model too, though. It was a lot of pressure on the front end. Like, could this be my person?
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A
We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about our new kids book, you always belong.
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B
It comes out February 17th. That's a Tuesday, but you can pre order it today, click the link in the bio or go to Amazon or wherever you like to get your books. We are very excited about this book. This one is very personal for us.
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A
Yeah. I wrote my book people pleaser not long ago, and this is basically like a kid's version. And it has some beautiful illustrations to drive the point home for your kiddos. And so we pray it's a blessing for you all.
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B
Yeah, it's been a wonderful conversation starter for us and our kids. And look, they've even got some soccer players there. You're gonna love this book. Your kids will love this book. And so if you want to get a copy, pre order it today, it comes out Tuesday, February 17th. We hope it's a blessing.
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A
Now back to the episode. And I think there was more pressure because of the public side of it, too. For us. Maybe it wasn't like that with everyone who was in that. The courtship culture. A lot of them felt like it was formalized, but I think there was a lot of pressure to make up your mind before, to know, like, before you made it public, because then you can't take it back.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Someone said, I. I don't feel like you guys are experienced to be discussing this topic because we haven't been on. We weren't on, like, dating apps. You know, that's hilarious.
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B
Interesting.
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A
But I mean, you know, just bring up the discussion. Let's just throw that out there.
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B
Yeah. The only people that can speak about dating apps are those who've been on.
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A
Dating apps who've been married through a dating app.
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B
But that's the funny thing is, like, this is. This isn't about an. That's. I think one of the main points is this isn't about the app itself.
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A
Yeah.
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B
The world is changing, and the mediums for how we meet and interact with people are changing.
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A
Yeah.
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B
They've said, like, someone who lived in america in the 1800s, one New York Times paper holds more international news than that person would have acquired in their lifetime.
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A
That's insane. I've heard that. And it just sounds, like, so hard to believe when you think about that, like, taking a step back in time, going back to when there was just a newspaper. And I mean, my grandpa and grandma, they. They would always get the newspaper that was their source of news, and they would bring it in, and they'd just sit down and, like, want to read it every morning. And now, like, literally, I will scroll through, I'll see a news article, and I'll be like, oh, man, that's great. And I'll find, like, five things. I know. But I like. Someone else said, you take, like, a tiny little bit, and then somebody asked me about it later in the day, and I'm like, oh, yeah. I think that there's, like, a war in this country starting, and I know nothing about it.
- [23:50]
B
Yeah, you're. We have all this breadth, but it's an inch.
- [23:54]
A
Yeah.
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B
Thick.
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A
It's insane.
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B
But to think, okay, the mediums of us gaining news and technology has expanded our capacity to know about the world, which has also expanded our capacity to meet people. Hundreds of years ago, you would have never met someone halfway across the world.
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A
Yeah, exactly. I mean, except for some people did with letters, like writing. If they had been on a ship, they met each other that way. This lady just wrote, she said, my husband and I met 44 years ago through a newspaper ad. No apps back then. Wow, that's amazing.
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B
What would the. What did the ad say, I wonder? Looking for wife.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Interesting call.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So if you're desperate enough, you'll find a way to meet somebody.
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A
I think that's true.
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B
That's what I get from that.
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A
That's so true.
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B
Go. Hey, there's no. There's no upward.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Or Christian mingle. I want to meet someone. I'm tired of being alone. I'm going to put an ad in.
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A
Newspaper in the classifieds.
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B
So that's the opposite, though, of, like, okay, so someone meets and has been married for 44 years, and we assume happily if they're contributing to this, and, you know, this is great. And then someone else is like, yeah, I met, like, a serial killer. And so you go, okay, so it's not the medium itself. Mm. It's the nature of people and the.
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A
Nature of how you approach it.
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B
Right.
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A
Because if you're approaching it, like, just like, trying to find love no matter what, then I think there can be a desperation that we hang onto. And it's like. It's interesting because if you're desperate and going in, trying to find love, we have seen, like I said, those reality shows where people seem so desperate, so they're just like. They're begging someone to help them find true love. And when you go in so desperate, then you're gonna settle for anything. And I think that that's part of it all depends on how you approach it. So if you're going in looking for somebody who. You're not gonna budge on what you are desiring. So you're thinking, okay, I want somebody who loves Christ. If you're a believer, you want a believer. You want somebody who is going to be, you know, faithful, loyal, kind, generous, all these things. Well, then as you get to know that person, you're going to say, okay, well, if it doesn't line up, I'm going to step away. And even though you put in all that effort, as you would with any relationship, then you're willing to back out. And I think that that's. It may. I think that it doesn't matter what medium it is. It doesn't matter exactly where you are, but it all depends on your approach to the relationship and how you're going in. Are you going in thinking, like, I'm gonna find love no matter what, then that can be dangerous. And ultimately, like, yeah, a lot of these people, actually a ton of people, are happily married. I see a ton of comments where we're reading, like, I met my husband through match.com and then somebody else said that they met their husband on Bumble and they think that it can work, but you have to have the same faith and morals. And so there's just so much.
- [27:19]
B
Okay, that's a great point to talk about for a second, is if you're going into this saying, I want to be married or I want to meet my person, what should your priorities be? Because a dating app, depending on which one you have Christian dating apps, who should be prioritizing aspects of that person's character and faith and have probably a vulnerability there that, like, a Tinder wouldn't have, because A tinder. Its purpose is going to be more, you know, just probably hookup culture. Although people do meet on that and have significant relationships. We've heard of those. However, what are your priorities going into this? What are you looking for? I think if I could just say, you know, as we're talking about this and as people are trying to form maybe even their convictions or perspective on a dating app, I think it's less about the app itself, because I don't think we should categorically disqualify a means to meeting someone. No, just like you would say, I'm never going to date someone that I meet at a county fair. Like, what if you meet somebody great at a county fair? Like, technology and circumstance can introduce you to special people, and people are people, no matter how you meet them. But going on in a space that is intentionally designed to bring people together romantically, what are your priorities? So how, ginge, would you encourage a young woman who's on a dating app to focus her priorities maybe in a space that kind of feels like, ooh, the physical has to be presented a certain way or it's ripe for comparison. So falling into, like, I've got to be the prettiest person on here because this, you know, like, there's these pretty people, and they're going to get attention. How should a young woman focus her priorities when saying, hey, let me try out an app and see what fruit it produces?
- [29:40]
A
Yeah, I think they would come down to your heart, being yourself and also honoring God. And so if you're trying to put yourself out there in a certain way, that's not God honoring, then that would be something to be, like, wary of because you're only gonna draw that kind of person. But if you're trying to put, you know, things on there that you. I'd imagine that you would want that person. I think that. Well, what I'm trying to say is, like, if you want to put it out there where it's like, okay, I am looking for somebody who loves Jesus, who is involved in local church, who is serving others, and has an outward focus on compassion and serving other people, that's where you would want to be. Not just, like, putting your best foot forward, but at the same time, yes, you are. So you're trying to show that person who you are for the heart, for what matters in your heart. Because I think that often we do have these beauty standards. And, yes, you need to be attracted to your spouse. That's a huge thing. I think a lot of Christians can be like, oh, well, it doesn't matter how they look. I think I'll just develop attraction later and marry whoever. And that's more godly. Well, no, it's not. We have been given this gift of marriage and you do get to choose who you want to marry. And God has designed that as a beautiful gift. So not laying aside the physical, but focusing on the spiritual. And yes, there are times where maybe you'll meet somebody and it's like they may not be initially attracted, but then the more that you see that person's heart and the more that you see their character, then you're drawn to that because you see their deep love for Christ and attraction builds. You should have attraction.
- [31:33]
B
Right, right, right before you like marry.
- [31:36]
A
And you know, move forward with them. But a lot of that, yeah, in the depth, it's interesting because like the depth of a relationship, it's not going to matter how that person looks or the things that they own and all of that long term. So if you're thinking of here and now, like today, oh, that person has, you know, all the wealth, they have, their good looks, they don't have a wrinkle on their face and all of that, well, you fast forward 10, 20 years in and those things, they're going to shift and we're going to grow old and you're going to change. So don't just think of the here and now. Think about long term. Who do you want to build a family with? Like, who do you want to be the father of your kids? And think long term because those things matter. And it's easy. Just especially in the culture that we're in. This is part of it is like, I'm gonna just go on Amazon, get what I want right now, send it to the door tomorrow. Oh man, they don't have one day shipping. Bummer. Like I need it now. And I think that we can be like that in any area and putting up with things that we shouldn't. So I think just being patient and asking God for wisdom and then surrounding yourself with people who can be involved in your relationship, like connect with other people. So like once you know that person, you've been on a few dates and stuff, well have them over with your friend group and invite them over to get other people to get to know them and go into their friend groups, see who they hang out with, see what they're actually passionate about and that will give you confidence in whether or not you should move forward.
- [33:26]
B
Okay, so for our audio only listeners, I've been nodding my head Vehemently in agreeance. That was phenomenal wisdom worthy to rewind and listen to again because you're getting at the heart of what should be priority. And even, like saying attraction isn't nothing, but it's not everything. Like, that's such a proverbial Ecclesiastes like wisdom of like. Yeah. Beauty is vain. And yet there's an element of attraction that's required and necessary. You know, I'd always say, like, you're not looking for just a roommate. Like, you want to make a family with this person. Like, there's elements required in this.
- [34:10]
A
Yeah.
- [34:11]
B
Which are beautiful. God, well, in his word talks about the marriage bed should be undefiled. It's a holy, sacred thing. And so attraction isn't nothing, but it's not everything.
- [34:23]
A
Yeah. And part of that is too, I'm gonna say, even with, like, the. The culture that we're in, where I think people, young people see it and they're trying to keep up. And there's so much comparison, even online. And it's like you just feel the. The constant pressure and pull. And even after you have kids, things change, your body changes, you're feeling exhausted. And it's like that constant nag on us to be everything, to feel like we have to keep up this.
- [34:56]
B
And it's keeping up with a superficial beauty.
- [34:58]
A
It is.
- [34:58]
B
Because social media, the Internet, can only portray certain aspects. And so you don't see people scrolling, going, wow, look at this girl. She's so benevolent and selfless and kind. Wow, what are they doing? They're lusting after external aspects of beauty. That's a very sad and superficial understanding and embracing of beauty because. And we've talked about this before, you and I personally, but I think I've mentioned on the podcast too, true beauty, like, in a wife like, is marked by not just an external perception of beauty at a certain age, but beauty grows and shifts over time and through life. So that aspects of your beauty, Ginger, are the marks of motherhood on your life because that's reflective of you sacrificing your body, giving your time, laying down your life for your children, and that fuels your beauty. What the superficial online beauty says is get rid of those marks, cut them out, have the surgeon eliminate them. Try to look like someone who's never had kids. Try to be skinnier, try to be more carefree because, you know, you have the look of tiredness on your face because your child kept you up all night. That's not beautiful. Let's erase that. And you go, wait a Second, no, those are actually marks of beauty, because beauty's deeper than a snapshot on Instagram.
- [36:39]
A
You know what's really funny about that? This is a side note. I know you're going very deep. There we go. Light. I've seen so many comments recently. I went into some DMs. I was looking for something specific because somebody had sent me a dm and I was scrolling through looking for it, and I saw so many DMs. I had posted a story or two, and I looked really tired that day. I didn't actually realize it in the moment, but a ton of people were like, oh, my goodness, Ginger, are you okay? You look exhausted. And I was like, yes, I am exhausted. I had a kid who stayed up. He was waking up a lot to nurse in the night, and I looked tired, and I put it on Instagram. That's pretty real.
- [37:22]
B
Yeah.
- [37:23]
A
But it's funny. Cause there's almost an expectation of you always looking like you got 12 hours of sleep every single night, always having your hair and makeup done.
- [37:32]
B
And that's gonna be the temptation in a dating app.
- [37:34]
A
Yeah.
- [37:35]
B
And I'm not saying, hey, ladies, like, after getting over the flu for five days, don't shower. Take a quick snapshot from an unappealing angle. Throw that on the dating app.
- [37:46]
A
Yeah.
- [37:47]
B
No. Like, you can swing the pendulum. And we've seen that in some pietistic communities where they say, no makeup, no effort. There's no. And so you see a girl and go, she's like, I just want to be married. I go, you give no effort to anything. Maybe you don't do your hair. You don't. You dress like you just got out of bed.
- [38:10]
A
Yeah. Like, you do put a little effort in.
- [38:13]
B
Yeah.
- [38:13]
A
Like, smell good. Don't, you know, use deodorant. It's okay.
- [38:16]
B
And that's not ungodly. So I always think of Ezekiel 24, where God, speaking to Ezekiel, calls Ezekiel's wife the desire of his eyes and the delight of his eyes and the desire of his soul. He looked at her and delighted. In fact, the Song of Songs commands the husband to delight in the physical attributes of his wife. So just because we're Christians who have an eternal perspective doesn't mean we reject the. The humanity that God has designed for us.
- [38:50]
A
Yeah. But then also, I think long term. That's what I was saying for thinking long term, too, of the beauty that fades. We remember the beauty that fades, which is the external. And looking to that internal beauty, long term is, like, the goal. And I think that as I've looked at even some older women around me, they aren't the most. Like, there are a couple who are not, like, going to be your fashionistas, But I can think of multiple women who have such a youthful, joyful spirit and I want to be just like them one day. They are the sweetest, most caring, thoughtful, loving. They haven't had all of the money even. They haven't done all the surgeries. And they are the most beautiful women I know. And that is ultimately like, long term. They have loved God, loved other people, invested themselves in others, and it's really cool to see that. And so I think when you're thinking about dating apps, it's not like you said the app itself, but it's the why behind it. What is your end goal? Do you want a partner that you're going to be married to as long as the Lord gives you that time with them? Or are you just looking for something.
- [40:13]
B
To satisfy, which means you might give a chance and say, you know what? I'm not going to commit my life to this person, but I'll give a chance to get to know somebody who maybe I initially wasn't like, whoa, that woman, you know, she walked in, I'm like, wow. Or that guy is just, you know, you go, oh, no good looking. But yeah, let's get to know him and nothing comes of it. Okay. Or you might realize, oh, my goodness, like, the more I get to know this person, the more beautiful they become.
- [40:44]
A
They become, yes.
- [40:45]
B
And that is the path of the righteous. Proverbs 4:18 says, the path of the righteous grows brighter and brighter like the noonday sun. And that's not just talking about physical beauty, but what you just pointed to in those older women. You know, there is this inner beauty that reflects itself. And you think about women who are doing everything to preserve the look of their 20s.
- [41:09]
A
Yes.
- [41:09]
B
And you look at them with a bit of pity and go, that's so sad.
- [41:14]
A
They feel like they have to. I'm not against, like, even little things, like people. People get braces, they do these things. But there's a necessity sometimes that we can feel to keep up.
- [41:29]
B
Yeah. It's without balance. It's not a balance of like, hey, let me keep myself healthy.
- [41:35]
A
But there's like an over focus and obsession on that to the point where I think that you as younger women can look at that and say, oh, that's what I need to do to remain beautiful.
- [41:48]
B
But that's the standard of beauty.
- [41:51]
A
Yeah. It's that I have to do that to be beautiful long term. And I think that focusing on even like just your heart and wanting to remain in a place of, you know, allowing the Lord to work on your heart, focusing on others. And it doesn't mean that you let yourself go. Like, you can still go work out at the gym every day. You can keep up your, you know, your fitness routine, your healthy routine.
- [42:22]
B
Right.
- [42:23]
A
But setting aside that where that's not what you're chasing is youth forever.
- [42:31]
B
Well, because it comes from a place of understanding, true beauty. And that's where you do as you say. You know what? Yeah, let me try this app out. Not allowing that to control you. Where you think I'm going to rise or fall based on my how people approve of me here, but seeing it for what it is. It's a possible means to the end of a really sweet relationship, just like anything else could be. You could meet your person wherever. Are you in control of your pursuit? That's where I felt for some time as a single person, like, I've gotta stop trying to find my wife because this is controlling me. Like I'm looking under every rock and crevice going, where is she? And I'm not content. At the same time, I'm willing to go to whatever lengths God calls me to if he makes it clear, like, hey, pursue this option. That's what I ended up doing. I ended up going on a missions trip, flying to Arkansas, going to Arkansas. These times, like, because I go, okay, this is worth pursuing. So having this perspective of like, I'm not going to manipulate my circumstances. And that's where if a desperation drives you to the app, here's what could happen is you might overlook logical signs where you go, this isn't a good situation. But he likes me and he's interested and nobody else is. So I'm gonna override logic. Or what my friends are saying you're being driven by desperation could get you into hot water. Or you know what, I'm just gonna go off the superficial. I'm gonna present myself superficially and respond superficially, driven by desperation. And you might need to just go, you know what, Lord, I'm gonna be content and I'm just gonna pray for a season and see what you do. On the other hand, though, if you feel like you're in a place of contentment and say, lord, I'm just trusting you. And somebody says, hey, man, try upward. Try this app. You go, yeah, you know what? Let's see what comes of it. We know incredibly godly men who've gone on there and have found incredibly godly women and they have flourishing lives. A pastor friend of ours.
- [44:38]
A
Yep.
- [44:38]
B
And so the ultimate end of the day is what's your heart dispos disposition? Are you acting this way out of a place of grumbling against God's providence? And okay, fine, I'm going to take control of it. Here's what's going to happen if you do that. You're going to be sitting there on your wedding day going, am I really making a good decision or did I just get so desperate I manipulated the circumstances to get me here?
- [45:05]
A
And that can happen with anything. Not just a dating app, but like any relationship where you're so desperate. And I think that that is ultimately what we're getting at is it's not about the dating app necessarily, but it is about the desperation and the lengths you're willing to go to to find love.
- [45:26]
B
Right? Yeah. I want to read some of these. Amanda Jones says, logged on Tinder, first time, met my husband the first day. Been married nine years.
- [45:36]
A
Wow, that's crazy.
- [45:39]
B
And then someone else said it's a full time job just to go on a date. Also, what you see on the apps are not always. Who shows? That's true. Met my husband on a dating app. Someone says, met my husband through a dating website 26 years ago, 25th anniversary this year.
- [45:54]
A
That's insane. Wow.
- [45:57]
B
Spent a while, 10 years on and off the apps, but finally found my guy. And I'm grateful. We live three hours apart. Never would have met otherwise.
- [46:05]
A
Wow.
- [46:06]
B
Met my husband on a dating app 18 years ago. Been happily married for 16 years. Met my husband, best date ever. Facebook dating. That's where I met my husband. I mean, met my husband on one 12 years ago. So many stories.
- [46:19]
A
That's great.
- [46:20]
B
And so it's a fascinating new world that technology has provided us to meet people. But we would go back to kind of as we close here, right? Date in community. Don't be the only person who knows them and make sure you don't. You're not budging on your priorities of godliness. You know what I mean? Like those essentials.
- [46:44]
A
Because that really matters. And I was just thinking, I think it was like your dad or mom or somebody who mentioned this thing. But they had just said like if they would tell singles even in their church. Like, okay, if you're in a smaller church and you're wanting to meet somebody, go to things like get outside of your bubble. Don't go to your break up your social pattern. Go out, break up Your social pattern. Put yourself in a situation where you're not just like, okay, God's going to bring me my spouse, and you're sitting in, you know, a little church with 10 people. That's great. Go to that church. But I'm just saying, you're just go visit other believers or, like, go to a conference, or, like, go hang out with people outside of your circles in your local community that are Christians, because you could meet somebody there. And I think that that's something that can be overlooked.
- [47:40]
B
So you made me think of Nehemiah rebuilding the wall. Right? And so Nehemiah goes back to Jerusalem, he's rebuilding the wall, and he's getting all of these threats against him and the people of violence. They're, you know, the enemies are going to come down and attack them while they're building the wall. And there's a text in Nehemiah, chapter 4. And listen to this. All the people are plotting together to come and fight against Jerusalem and cause confusion in it. Verse 9. Nehemiah says, we prayed to our God and set a guard as protection against them day and night. And what I love About Nehemiah, chapter 4, verse 9, is we pray to God. He's in control. God protect us. And then when they got done praying, they said, all right, you guys are going to be a guard. Get your weapons and stand and watch. And you go, well, if you prayed and God's going to protect you, then why would you have to guard it? You go, hold on, buddy, that's not how life works. God is sovereign, but we have responsibility. Same thing with dating. Lord, please give me a spouse. Lord, here are the reasons I want to be married. Great. Okay, now go about your life in a way where you might meet someone. And what that does is it gives you peace. Knowing he's heard your prayer, he's ultimately in control. But then you also know, hey, I have a part to play in this. I have a responsibility. So I'm going to be actively involved in my church. I'm going to be in places where I'm going to meet good people. Don't be the Christian guy who's out at bars every weekend getting hammer drunk and going, where's my godly wife I'm gonna have a family with? Well, she ain't there in those bars, buddy.
- [49:17]
A
And she's not gonna love that you love.
- [49:19]
B
She's gonna look at you and go, you're not the godly husband that I wanna marry.
- [49:23]
A
Yep.
- [49:23]
B
So be the person that you're seeking to be attracted to, like, in a. In a spouse, so that when you meet that godly person, they'll look at you and go, hey, that's a. That's my spouse. Right?
- [49:35]
A
Yep, Exactly.
- [49:36]
B
So trusting in God, but then being faithful with the opportunities and places he's put us. And I'll just tell you this as an encouragement if you're single. I was 28 when I got married. I wanted to get married when I was 20.
- [49:49]
A
Yeah.
- [49:49]
B
God had me wait. He had a lot of maturing to do. He had a lot of growing to do. Ginger was 22. She matured a lot quicker. She was ready a lot quicker than me.
- [49:57]
A
I think he had you wait. Because that way we would be compatible. Right. Ages.
- [50:02]
B
But. But it's all to say, like, there's not. God's timeline isn't always our timeline. And I will say this, too. I wallowed in singleness. Like, I felt it. Right?
- [50:14]
A
Yeah.
- [50:14]
B
And I was miserable. I was like, I just want to be married. When you get married, it disappears. Like, you forget the dark night of loneliness. And so don't rush into something and then regret the next 40 years of your life because you just got married for the sake of it.
- [50:32]
A
Yeah.
- [50:32]
B
Be patient and. And trust the Lord. And if and when the Lord, in his good timing brings you someone, you'll forget those hours and days and months and years of loneliness. So trust him. And then sign up for Upward. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, that could be a great option for some. But, Ginger, you're so wise. I hope this is encouraging to you guys and send this episode to someone who might be. I think we all know people, whether we're married or not. Maybe it's you, but maybe it's someone who you think could be edified by a conversation like this. I don't think we talk about this quite enough. Okay. Grateful for you guys. We will see you next week on the Ginger and Jeremy podcast.
- [51:23]
A
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