Are Disney and Taylor Swift Demonic? Jinger Reacts | Ep. 74

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast, Ep. 74 — Are Disney and Taylor Swift Demonic? Jinger Reacts
Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Jinger Vuolo, Jeremy Vuolo

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jinger and Jeremy Vuolo dive into the polarizing topic of Christian engagement with mainstream pop culture, specifically addressing the controversial question: Are Disney and Taylor Swift demonic? They explore their personal histories, convictions, and parenting challenges as they discuss whether Christians should consume media from secular sources like Disney movies or pop icons such as Taylor Swift. The conversation traverses personal anecdotes, practical wisdom, and theological principles, ultimately probing how Christians can live in the world without being of the world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Duggar Family and Disney: A Unique Childhood Perspective

• Jinger’s Upbringing

  • Jinger explains that, growing up in the Duggar household, Disney movies and anything involving "magic" were forbidden.
  • [03:13] Jeremy: “You weren’t allowed to watch anything with magic…”
  • [03:31] Jinger recounts her unique first Disney experience: visiting Disneyland during a reality TV filming, surrounded by Disney guides, yet being unfamiliar with the characters.
  • [04:34] Jinger: “My mom actually knew a lot of the characters... She was so sweet. She’s like, oh, it’s Snow White and the seven Dwarfs..."

• Magic and Parental Caution

  • [06:56] Jinger discusses how her family's caution stemmed from Christian concerns about spiritual influences, tracing the avoidance to specific teachings and a general wariness of the “spiritual world.”
  • They were allowed to pick out a few select (non-magical) Disney movies such as The Shaggy D.A. and Herbie the Love Bug on a childhood road trip—but major classics with magical themes (e.g., Beauty and the Beast, Fantasia) were off-limits.

2. Navigating Parenting Choices in a Digital Age

• Screen Time Discernment

  • [13:41] Jinger expresses modern parental anxiety over screens:

    “They’re like sponges... I am at the point where I’m seeing screens as more of an issue these days.”

  • Jinger prefers slow-paced, old-fashioned children’s programming (like Franklin, Curious George), expressing discomfort with fast-paced, sensory-heavy new content.

  • Jeremy and Jinger both note the importance of monitoring both the content and the effect screens have on their kids' attention and behavior.

• Magic in Storytelling vs. Spiritual Danger

  • [15:39] Jinger reflects on the fear-based approach she grew up with—being taught that engaging with darkness (magic, certain media) could spiritually “overtake” you unknowingly.

  • She gives a present-day example:

    "There's one show that I won't let our kids watch... goes into voodoo... I'm not going to let my kids watch that because I don't believe that's true." ([16:31])

  • The Vuolos highlight the difference between fanciful, innocent magic in media (Mickey’s magic wand) and content that explicitly valorizes occult practices or “bad theology.”

3. Thematic Messages and Christian Worldview:

• Discernment Over Blanket Bans

  • [19:01] Jeremy: “There are these underlying themes ... rewarded for disobeying their parents ... not crazy conspiracy ... there are some of those emergent or, like, undercurrents in some of these movies.”
  • Jinger and Jeremy agree they shy away from media that overtly celebrates negative behavior, selfishness, or disrespect, especially given the “sponge-like” nature of young children’s minds.
  • [21:49] Jeremy: “They don’t have discernment or maturity to go, that’s not good, but that’s good…they’re just absorbing everything.”

• Championing Wholesome Content

  • The Vuolos endorse shows like Daniel Tiger and Bluey (even noting how Bluey is produced by Disney), appreciating their positive, constructive lessons and enjoyment for both kids and adults.
  • [25:26] Jinger: “Daniel Tiger’s great because it teaches good lessons…there’s some of those shows that…actually doing good and teaching kids good lessons.”

4. Taylor Swift Controversy & Legalistic Responses

• Guilt by Association

  • Jinger narrates how her attendance at a Taylor Swift movie premiere (with other moms from church) triggered a fellow Christian speaker to refuse sharing a stage with her, based solely on a social media photo.
  • [27:16] Jeremy: “…there was another speaker who literally said, I refuse to be on stage with Jinger because she listens to Taylor Swift…”

• Jinger’s Pop Culture Distance

  • She clarifies her lack of familiarity with Taylor Swift’s catalogue and reveals a broader approach: she typically listens to friends’ music or what her kids enjoy, rarely following mainstream artists deeply.
  • [29:50] Ginger: “I wouldn’t even know a Taylor Swift song if I heard it.”

• Legalism and Its Pitfalls

  • Jeremy laments the “legalistic, fundamentalist” spirit that leads some Christians to judge, shun, or categorically reject one another over association with certain cultural products.
  • [31:13] Jeremy: “Legalistic fundamentalism is such a funny world…they think you can’t be associated in any way with the brokenness of this world…”

5. Theology of Culture: Navigating a Fallen World

• Biblical Foundations for Engagement

  • Jeremy brings in scriptural references:

    • Titus 1:15 – “To the pure, all things are pure.”
    • 1 Timothy 4 – Warns against those who claim abstaining from created things is inherently righteous.
    • Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 5 – Explains Paul’s stance on living amidst the world’s mess without copying its sin.

  • [35:40] Jeremy: “This world—it’s a broken world, but it was made good and beautiful…there’s so much in this world that’s beautiful. Now it’s been tainted by sin…”

  • They contrast the “fundamentalist” approach (categorical avoidance) and the “antinomian” approach (anything goes), advocating for wise, Spirit-led discernment.

• Art Gallery Illustration

  • [38:20] Jeremy uses the example of visiting an art gallery:
    • The legalist says “never go” because some art is bad.
    • The mature Christian enjoys the good, discerns the problematic, and withholds delight from what is “explicitly celebrating sin,” rather than operating from superstitious fear.

6. The Power of Influence and Societal Formation

• Who Shapes Our Worldview?

  • Jeremy underscores the importance of being intentional about what and who shapes our perspectives.
  • [42:22] Jeremy: “Who are we allowing to form and shape us?”
  • Celebrity culture is critiqued for its outsized influence; Taylor Swift’s opinions on unrelated topics (politics, etc.) cited as a sign of misplaced authority by fans.

• Active vs. Passive Consumption

  • Jinger shares how intentionally renewing her mind with Scripture (“grounded in the word”) equips her to process difficult messages in the media and keeps her from being passively shaped by secular views.

7. Idolatry, Discernment, and Engaging the World

• Media as Potential Idols

  • [47:07] Jinger references Jeremy’s sermon illustration: when God is on the throne, all other pleasures (including media) take their proper, subordinate place. If something overtly celebrates evil, “we just don’t finish the show.”
  • [48:53] Jeremy: “If it’s calling you to delight in what is explicitly wrong and sinful, well, Christians say, no, I don’t delight in that.”

• Impurity Comes from Within

  • Jeremy addresses the temptation to think external separation is the answer:
    • [51:09] Jeremy: “The world is in here… Impurity comes from the heart.”
    • Paul never tells the Corinthian Christians to leave their ungodly city—he tells them to let Christ change their hearts.

8. Wisdom, Parental Discretion, and Christian Liberty

• Freedom, Wisdom, and Individual Application

  • There is no one-size-fits-all solution: what some families avoid entirely (streaming, Disney), others engage with carefully.
  • [53:45] Jeremy: “I do think this is an area of wisdom and each person has to decide.”

• Avoiding Isolation and Insularity

  • Jinger warns against Christians withdrawing so far from society they become “useless” for salt-and-light witness:
    • [54:56] Jinger: “We need Christianity in the world, but not of it…If you insulate yourself, you’re useless to sharing the gospel.”

• No Blanket Boycotts

  • While selective boycotts may make sense on occasion, it’s unsustainable and futile to try to avoid any “worldly” context—grocery stores, jobs, public spaces.

• Final Encouragement

  • Christians are called to be discerning in their engagement, seeking God’s wisdom for their own families, and being aware that “influence” is always being sought—by companies, creators, pop stars, and influencers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Screens:

  “I am at the point where I’m seeing screens as a threat against our kids.”
  — Jinger [01:12]

• On Magic and Spiritual Fear:

  “A lot of Christians think that things are going to overtake them unknowingly…Superstition takes over…there’s a fear that can grip you.”
  — Jinger [15:39]

• On Bluey’s Universal Appeal:

  “Bluey…is a really enjoyable wholesome [show] for the whole family. Because the humor…you get the humor as an adult and you love that.”
  — Jinger [25:33–25:46]

• On Legalistic Responses:

  “Legalistic fundamentalism is such a funny world…they think you can’t be associated in any way with the brokenness of this world.”
  — Jeremy [31:13]

• On The Power of Influence:

  “Who are we allowing to form and shape us?... These people are thought leaders…They’re forming our worldview.”
  — Jeremy [42:22–43:08]

• On The Source of Sin:

  “Impurity comes from the heart. The world is in here.”
  — Jeremy [51:06]

• On Engaging with the World:

  “We need Christianity in the world, but not of it…being salt and light where you are…if you insulate yourself, you’re useless to sharing the gospel.”
  — Jinger [54:56]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:05] Growing up Duggar & first Disney experience
• [06:56] Why the Duggar family avoided magic
• [13:41] Parental concerns with screens and content
• [16:31] Specific example: refusing Disney’s “voodoo” princess movie
• [19:01] Discussion: Underlying themes in Disney movies
• [27:16] Taylor Swift incident — Christian event fallout
• [31:13] Legalism within Christian culture
• [35:40] Theological framework: To the pure, all things are pure
• [38:20] Art gallery illustration (discerning good and evil)
• [42:22] The power of cultural influencers (Taylor, Kanye, Lady Gaga)
• [47:07] Idolatry and enjoying culture in its proper place
• [51:06] The heart as the source of moral danger
• [54:56] Dangers of Christian isolation; call to be in, not of, the world

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Tone & Takeaway

Warm, vulnerable, and practical—the Vuolos strike a nuanced, scriptural balance between disengaged separatism and uncritical consumption. They call for wisdom, active parental shepherding, honest humility, and grace toward fellow Christians making different choices. This episode is a thoughtful resource for parents, church leaders, and anyone navigating faith in a media-saturated society.

Transcript

[Ginger]

Kids, they grow up so fast. One day they're taking their first steps, and the next they don't fit into the tiny sneakers they took them in. You blink your eyes and their princess dress is two sizes too small. And their dinosaur backpack isn't cool anymore. But don't cry because they're growing up. Smile because you can profit off of it for real. There are a bunch of parents on depop looking for the stuff your kid just grew out of. Download depop to start selling. Marshall's. Buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss, and a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not almost forget. Marshalls, we get the deals. You give the good stuff even at the last minute.

[Jeremy]

Phew.

[Ginger]

Find a Marshall's near you.

[Jeremy]

Is Disney demonic? Can Christians watch Disney? Should we expose our kids to it? And you know what? I'm gonna throw in to that as well. People like Taylor Swift.

[Ginger]

Oof. This is gonna be intense. I am at the point where I'm seeing screens as a threat against our kids.

Before we jump into today's episode, we wanna tell you about t daily Bread.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. This is a free resource for you this holiday season. I know you guys love free, and it's an incredible resource because it'll help you get into the Bible and learn how to read it, and it'll really benefit the start to your day.

[Ginger]

I remember getting our daily bread mailed to our home, and it's awesome because this is the perfect way to jump in, have a little devotional if you don't have that much time in the morning to read and start your day off right.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, it's available for free. There's no downside to it, whether you've been reading the Bible for years or just getting into it. Get our daily bread delivered to your mailbox when you [e-mail] ginger that's ODBM, our dailybreadministries.org ginger for this free resource.

[Ginger]

Now let's jump into the episode.

[Jeremy]

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Ginger and Jeremy podcast. And all right, Ging, we're gonna get into what has become quite a polarizing topic on the Internet. And it's this is Disney demonic? And can Christians watch Disney? Should we expose our kids to it? And you know what? I'M gonna throw in to that as well, people like Taylor Swift. Because I feel like this is one in the same conversation. People are always talking. You know, you have strong opinions. Christians can't listen to Taylor Swift. And then you have others who listen to any and everything, watch any and everything. And so today we're gonna get into it.

[Ginger]

Oof. This is gonna be intense. I mean, I think that these conversations have been something that I've thought a lot about, especially when your kids are getting a little bit older. So I'm excited to jump into it.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. And really, I wanna go back and start with the Duggar World, because growing up, you did not watch Disney.

[Ginger]

No.

[Jeremy]

You weren't allowed to watch anything with magic. But. But here's the crazy thing. Tell us the story about you going to Disneyland and having an experience at Disneyland that probably no one else who's listening, definitely me, would, could or would ever have at Disney.

[Ginger]

Okay. So when I was probably 9 or 10, maybe. No, I was older than that. Right. 10 or 11, our family took a road trip to California. We were filming a documentary which was called on the road with 16 children. And. And we went to Disney. So our trip from Arkansas to California, we stopped at different places along the way, saw some sights. But when we made it to Disney, we had, you know, Disney execs or, like, guides taking us around the park to the front of lines and giving us all this Disney merch. But the interesting part was I didn't know any of the characters, really. I mean, I knew Minnie and Mickey because I had seen pictures of them. Maybe I had watched one episode, but we didn't even watch Minnie and Mickey because of the magic side of things. We were more careful with that. And so when we showed up, I just remember my mom actually knew a lot of the characters. So she was so sweet. She's like, oh, it's Snow White and the seven Dwarfs.

[Jeremy]

Look, guys.

[Ginger]

And she would say that as the characters were coming up, because most kids are like, wow. And we just didn't know who these characters were. Cinderella. I didn't know who Cinderella was. So it's kind of funny, right? Like, you get this Disney experience where they roll out the red carpet. And now looking at that, I'm like, we've been talking about taking our kids to Disney. Spoiler. And that's something that I'm like, we need to do it while it still is exciting for them.

[Jeremy]

Right? Right. That is so funny because you get, like, this incredible experience of the most magical place on Earth, but kind of probably underappreciated. I mean, you probably appreciate it in just overall sense of like, oh, that was fun.

[Ginger]

The rides were cool. The thing that I remember the most was a bread bowl. It was. It may have been sourdough or like just a bread bowl that had the Mickey ears and it had soup inside. It was a soup bread bowl thing. And that was the first time I think I'd ever had that. And so that was something that was like, locked in was the food. A couple of the rides that I rode, I just. I mean, I don't know. It was interesting. I remember going to the Disney Store and we got like, Disney. The Mickey ears with our names on them. And it was for the 50 year celebration of Disneyland. And they were the golden ears.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. Now, so.

[Ginger]

And we got jackets, too.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. So, like your jacket, you would have had that in your keepsakes. But then a lot of it was in the warehouse, which had some mold, and then you guys had to renovate the space. And so you probably lost some.

[Ginger]

Yeah, I think we lost our Disney jackets. I don't know about the other siblings. I think I. That's what I heard. But we have. I have my Mickey ears.

[Jeremy]

Like, if you had that jacket and stuff, it'd be worth a lot of money, wouldn't it?

[Ginger]

Probably not, because I think a lot of people have stuff like that.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. But it's from the 50th anniversary. That's like 25 years ago.

[Ginger]

25 years. 20 years ago.

[Jeremy]

That's crazy.

[Ginger]

That makes me old.

[Jeremy]

I know. Something like that.

[Ginger]

Yeah. 20 years, probably. But I think also it had my name embroidered on it, so that would have been very cool, like selling it.

[Jeremy]

Did you guys, like, going in? Were you warned about magic stuff? Cause wasn't magic an issue in the home? One of the decisions your parents made was not to incorporate or have any magic.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Magic was something that. I think it makes sense, as a Christian, why you would want to avoid that. I don't know if that was a teaching of Bill Gothard or not, but definitely thinking about the spiritual world and those things that we don't want to mess with, I think that was something that a lot of Christians shied away from. And so, yeah, I think that Disney definitely promoted a lot of that magic. And it was like, you know, that's kind of what they're known for. But funny enough, I remember we went to the gift shop, and this is another thing. Like, we had so much money that we were allowed to spend at the Disney gift shop. And so we did not watch a lot of movies. Growing up, we would watch these. What they were. They were called, like, Nest videos. So they were stories about. It was like a Bible story. It's animated. Or there would be, like, Benjamin Franklin, maybe Alexander Graham Bell. All these people that you'd watch. And we were allowed to watch those. Well, when we went to the Disney Store, our parents were like, okay, you can pick out a couple movies and. And we'll help you, like, see which ones look good. And you can watch them on the drive back home.

[Jeremy]

Like, on the bus. Right. Cause you would have had a DVD player in the bus or what? Or cassette.

[Ginger]

Was it VHS at that point? It must have been vhs, but that was crazy. Most of you guys don't even know what VHS is, so. But yeah, we were able to pick out a couple of videos to watch. So we had a motorhome is what we had an old motorhome.

[Jeremy]

Wow.

[Ginger]

And we picked out. I remember. Let's see. It was the Shaggy DA and.

Herbie the Love Bug. Those were two that we picked out.

[Jeremy]

And we allowed to watch. So you were allowed to watch some Disney stuff.

[Ginger]

That was it.

[Jeremy]

But you wouldn't have been able to watch, like, Fanta or Fantasia. Fantasia?

[Ginger]

What is that, Like.

[Jeremy]

Like the magical Mickey? No, I think that's the right. Man. I remember in my childhood now. I remember that one movie where Mickey has a magic wand and he's making everything move in the ocean.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

But then, like, Beauty and the Beast, off limits, like, that kind of thing.

[Ginger]

Never watched that. I still haven't watched it. Yeah. So there's a lot of movies that we wouldn't have watched, but I just remember those stuck in my head because those were the only movies that we got on that trip that I can remember.

[Jeremy]

What about, like, the characters? Was there ever, like, oh, no, we're not gonna go to that section of the park or anything like that. Like, on the top.

[Ginger]

Not that I know that. No. I think we just went around the park and we rode some rides and had some interactions. And so that's what I remember from Disney. And it's funny because now I feel like looking at that, I'm like, oh, that was such a cool experience. But like you said under.

[Jeremy]

I didn't realize that at that point. Well, there's other kids who, if they grew up with these Disney characters, walking into Disneyland or Disney World is literally their dreams coming to life. You know, they see Mickey for the first time in person. And for a lot of those kids, they're so young, they still Can't. There's no disconnect between, you know, the movie and real life. So they think Mickey, oh, this is really Mickey. You know, this is real Mickey.

[Ginger]

And that's how I feel like Evie would be now. Evie would be like that with the princesses or with Minnie and Mickey. And the funny thing is actually for us, we went to focus on the family. We went to Adventures in Odyssey.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

Their headquarters there. Saw the Adventures in Odyssey set up and that for us was like Disneyland.

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Zoc.

[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

Now, back to the episode.

[Jeremy]

That's an interesting conversation piece. Because there are other options.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

And so I think a lot of Christians who are saying we shouldn't listen to Disney or watch Disney or listen to Taylor Swift or others are saying because there's other options. Which is a good point. Right. Like, why would we promote something that maybe is just not promoting our values or is actively promoting something against our values when we do have other outlets that are promoting what we believe in or produced by Christians or something like that? Like, we don't have to worry about. It's already vetted. That's a great. Yeah. Which is. Which is a really valid point.

[Ginger]

Yeah, I think. I feel that. So we're in this place where we have little kids who are like sponges. They're soaking up everything around them. And I am at the point where I'm seeing screens as more of an issue these days.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. As almost like a threat.

[Ginger]

A threat against our kids.

[Jeremy]

And not necessarily, but screens themselves.

[Ginger]

Screens.

[Jeremy]

And then what you put on them as well. Yes. Yeah.

[Ginger]

The screens themselves. Because I feel like I feel that with my phone, I can get drawn in, sucked into that, and it just takes. It consumes my time. So I don't want that for our kids. We've talked about this so much in depth. I do everything I can to keep our kids off of a screen to the point where sometimes I'm like, I've had to talk to you about it. I'm like, I lean away so hard from a screen. And sometimes we're like, we should just let them watch a movie. Let's just let them watch a movie. So in certain seasons, I feel like I'll let them watch a little bit more. Other times, we'll just hardly let them watch anything. Maybe Saturday morning cartoons. That's it. And right now I'm kind of somewhere in between because it's Christmas season. It gets dark early. So I just found this little show, Franklin, and it's an older show, and it's engaging the kids. Or I like Curious George. I like some of those old classics. Not the new, even the new Curious George movie. We let the kids watch it. And I was like, oh, I don't like it. It's too fast moving. It draws their attention to the screen so much to where they're sucked in. I like the slower paced movies, the older movies, even older Disney movies. It's kind of fun to let the kids watch that.

[Jeremy]

And a lot of that's the sensory bombardment stuff. Yes, but what about, like, the, okay, Disney's demonic. Like, Disney has bad agendas, and so we can't touch it, we can't promote it, we can't be involved, we can't watch anything. How have we kind of approached that in our house?

[Ginger]

Well, I think I'll start talking about it, but then I want you to jump in because I'm sure you have a lot of wisdom in this, because we've, we've had to navigate it thinking, okay, as Christians, how do we handle even the spiritual world? I think a lot of Christians think that things are going to overtake them unknowingly. And that's kind of the setting I grew up in. Superstition takes over. So you think if I engage with this darkness in any form, then it's going to overtake me and I won't even know it. And there's a fear that can grip you. And. And that's what I grew up thinking. And so now for our kids, I look at things that I'm like, sometimes there's one show that I won't let our kids watch. It's a Disney princess, and I just won't let them watch it. I can't even think of the name of it now, but classic Ginger. Is it.

[Jeremy]

Is it just because the.

[Ginger]

It goes into voodoo? It's like the green princess dress. I don't even remember her name, but it's with the frog and the princess dress. Is it Tiana? I don't even know. See, I don't even remember, but I watched a section of it one time and it goes into voodoo. And I'm like, I'm not gonna let my kids watch that because I don't believe that that's true. I don't want them thinking that's good. But when it goes to, like, when you come to, like, Mickey and there's this magic, you know, it's like, there's some of that. That seems pretty harmless. But also, I still have times where I'm like, okay, do I want our kids thinking that.

They have power to control things, or is God the one who has all Power. So that's also something that I've wrestled with, and we still wrestle with that because there are some things where it's like they're waving, you know, their Minnie's or Mickey's waving his Minnie magic wand or whatever, and it's like, ding. Something sparkly appears. Well, some of that is, like, a little bit harmless, right? It's almost like a magic trick. And it doesn't. It doesn't really matter as much. But then there are other times where it, like, I'm sitting there thinking about it. Who do you want them to. To look to, like, are they attributing things to magical power? Well, Felicity is a very black and white person, so she always says, okay. Like, she'll say, oh, I love this so much, but I don't love it more than God. She's very realistic, and that's just how she operates. So there are times where she'll ask, oh, is, you know, that character powerful on a show? And we're like, yeah, on the show they are. And she goes, but they don't have more power than God, and they don't actually have power because God gave them the power. God has all power. And she knows her theology, and so she'll say it.

But I think that there's also something.

There's something so okay with, like, just letting kids be kids and not having to even explain. Like, if they're asking questions, like, Felicity's such a deep thinker, so she's gonna go into every little thing and she can enjoy it. But then she also is giving us, like, she teaches us through a movie. And sometimes I'm like, you can just watch the movie. It's okay. But.

[Jeremy]

Well, I think, yeah, you're raising a good tension. I think it's the tension that people are feeling. They're like, okay, there are these producers, you know, they're making the most popular videos or games or whatever, and they're not thinking the way we would be thinking as Christians. So they're not promoting, you know, Christ as ruler, Right? And we wouldn't expect them to because that's not their. They're not operating in that framework. And so people go, so they, you know, are we going to give our children over to their influence? And so they feel this tension because there are these underlying themes. Like, in one sense, it's kind of harmless for Mickey to go, boop, and, you know, a magical box appears. But then you even said with the other princess, you go, man, this is just too much. Or even with Mickey, sometimes you know. And you go, so is there this undercurrent of influence? I heard a parent talking the other day about the princess themes of Disney movies and how, if you really think about it, Disney characters, like the main characters in Disney movies, are rewarded for disobeying their parents. And it's so often the parents coming back to them at the end of the movie going, you were so right. Thank you for saving all of us. We're glad you didn't listen to us. And you start seeing certain themes emerge. And I don't think that's crazy conspiracy. I think you go, yeah, there are some of those emergent or, like, undercurrents.

In some of these movies.

[Ginger]

Yeah. We'd be naive to say that there wasn't.

[Jeremy]

Sure.

[Ginger]

So I think that. But that's what we've talked about, too, is like, okay, I'm not gonna set them in front of that every day. Cause I think we have enough bad attitudes as it is. So we're not gonna put our kids in front of that and be like, this is great. I honestly do shy away from those movies. Anything that has a tone, that's just. It's promoting that. It's promoting selfishness or bad attitudes. My mom did a great job of that. I remember. Even if it was like we were listening to a story, she's like, how was their attitude? You know? And sometimes you need that when your kids are so little, because they're just constantly already struggling with that bad attitude, mocking others. And unless it comes back around and there's, like, a redemptive nature to it, it's not helpful for us.

[Jeremy]

So that's gonna be a huge component in, like, making decisions on this as we, like, seek to establish some principles. Because you said it a few minutes ago, their minds are sponges at a certain age. So they don't have discernment or maturity to go. That's not good, but that's good. Like, to pick apart and leave some bad leaves. Take some good. They're just absorbing everything.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

So they see, like, Saturday morning cartoons. For us, it doesn't matter who's producing it. You know, we're flipping through the cartoons and we're in bed. And it's a very special time for us as a family where, like, our world stops. We sleep in. When the girls wake up, they know where to come. They jump in bed and we watch cartoons. But then you see so many cartoons where the kids are, like, bullying each other. We're being mean, and I'm like.

[Ginger]

And we just.

[Jeremy]

I don't want my little 5 year old who's just staring there, you know, snuggled with daddy, absorbing, being shaped by that. But she's five, so she doesn't have the discernment.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

Now, what's cute is when they do start to at a five about, they start to, you know, realize, hey, daddy, that wasn't nice. You know, you go, that's right, that wasn't nice. But then you go, well, why are we watching? Let's just turn on something that.

[Ginger]

That's wholesome.

[Jeremy]

That's wholesome.

[Ginger]

And encourage them to be kind.

[Jeremy]

Exactly.

[Ginger]

We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about function health.

[Jeremy]

Okay. I'm very excited about the app because I'm 38 years old. Did you know that, Ginger?

But after taking all my blood tests and running it through function, the app has told me I'm actually biologically 33.9 years old.

[Ginger]

Wow, that's impressive.

[Jeremy]

I'm over four years younger according to my health.

[Ginger]

That's cool.

[Jeremy]

And this is cool. It shows you all the biomarkers that you need. And so here's the deal. I'm just going to get right to it. We are gifting this to so many people this holiday season because what's more important than your health?

[Ginger]

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[Jeremy]

And now you can own your health with function health for only $365 a year. That's a dollar a day to know if you're healthy or not. Learn more and join using our link visit www.functionhealth.com ginger use code ginger25 for a 25 credit toward your membership. It's a great gift. Functional health.com ginger use code ginger2.5 Look, I'm telling you, for the men in your life, they will not be disappointed if you get them a poncho shirt for a gift. This shirt, I think it's my favorite shirt I own. I love this thing. It's durable, it's comfortable. I wear it all the time.

[Ginger]

And I think what you love about it most too is that it feels comfortable. It's like broken in. Oh, yeah, that's what it feels like.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. I feel like my buddy Cade Fayner. Like I'm a real cowboy.

[Ginger]

It's durable.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

It's comfortable. Classy. You can wear it for a lot of things.

[Jeremy]

There's a few guys, buddies of mine who shouldn't watch this podcast because I'M going to get this for them, but you guys need to get it for the guys in your life that you actually care about. Look, if you don't care about them, don't get him a poncho shirt. But if you do get him a poncho shirt, here's the call to action this season. Skip the guesswork. Give him something he'll actually wear, whether it's for your husband, dad, or son. Poncho makes clothes built for the men who do it all. That's me. Go to ponchooutdoors.com ginger and enter your email for $10 off your first order. That's podcast ponchowoutdoors.com ginger for $10 off and free shipping. And when they ask you how you heard about them, let them know that it was us, Ginger and German podcast that sent you.

[Ginger]

Now back to the episode. So there's so many good shows like that. I love Daniel Tiger and I feel like Felicity's beyond that. She feels too old for it. But Daniel Tiger's great because it teaches good lessons. And there's some of those shows that I'm like, oh, that's really great. They're actually doing good and teaching us good lessons.

[Jeremy]

And it's Disney is Bluey. We've really enjoyed Bluey. Oh, yeah.

[Ginger]

Okay, I didn't know that.

[Jeremy]

Well, it's on Disney.

[Ginger]

Gotcha.

[Jeremy]

So it's a really enjoyable wholesome for.

[Ginger]

The whole family because the humor, it can work.

[Jeremy]

That's proper humor.

[Ginger]

You get the humor as an adult and you love that.

[Jeremy]

I love it.

[Ginger]

There was one time we were in. Where were we? Over at the Ark. And you got so sick. So we were in an Airbnb and the kids watched Bluey for probably 12 hours. Don't judge us. We were sick. So, so sick. It's the sickest we've ever been.

[Jeremy]

It was to be sick. Was it Norovirus?

[Ginger]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy]

In an Airbnb in Kentucky. It was in the middle of. It was like winter.

[Ginger]

Yes. And we couldn't get up. Both of us were so sick. Our kids, one of them had had the sickness two days before, so they were better. So we couldn't take care of them. We literally couldn't get up off the couch. So it was one of those times. And they watched so much Bluey. And I remember coming, like, I finally, like, got up from one of the rooms, walked in. I saw you. And you're just sitting there watching Bluey by yourself. And I think you were just out of it. Honestly, you were Just like delirious at that point.

[Jeremy]

No, I was. Well, yeah, you thought it was funny.

[Ginger]

Because that was the first time I think you had actually, like, locked in on what Bluey was. And you were like, this is brilliant, the humor they have. Like, kids are watching it, but they know that the parents are gonna be sitting there, too. It's one of those. Well, it's brilliant.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, it's brilliantly written. It's great storytelling. Gosh. I'm just gonna go on about Bluey. So.

There'S good there, but it takes some discernment, and I think that's something as parents and just as Christians, we need to build. Okay. I want to throw into the mix Taylor Swift, because you've got a Taylor Swift story.

[Ginger]

I do.

[Jeremy]

And I'll give you a little bit of an on ramp here for it. But some years ago, you were actually slated to speak at an event and there was another speaker who literally said, I refuse to be on stage with Ginger because she listens to Taylor Swift. And it was like, I'm sorry, what?

[Ginger]

That's what I said. I'm sorry, what? You know why? Because I don't listen to Taylor Swift.

[Jeremy]

I mean, casually. You might hear it.

[Ginger]

I wouldn't even know a Taylor Swift song if I heard it. That's the crazy thing. I wouldn't. But, okay, for context, I had gone to the Taylor Swift tour movie, or whatever it was called. It's like at the theater, I went with my. My friends, my mom friends, and we went and watched it. And it's interesting because I had reposted or posted a picture on one of my stories of us standing in front of the. It was her poster for the movie. And I guess that's what this person must have seen.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I think maybe. Maybe some news outlets picked it up and did an article. Ginger, is that Taylor Swift's thing?

[Ginger]

You know, I didn't even know that, but, yeah, it's kind of funny. So then immediately this person thinks it's interesting. They must have thought, oh, Ginger is like hardcore Taylor Swift fan. Even if I was right, we're going to get into that. Yeah, it's not the issue, but it was just. It was laughable to me because I. That was the first. That was honestly, like, my first exposure to Taylor Swift. I had never. I didn't know any of her songs. I was laughing with my friends who. I went with my mom friends from church. I was laughing with them because they were like, do you know this song? Do you know this song? And these are all Popular songs. I don't know any of them.

[Jeremy]

But here's the thing. Here's a funny thing about Ginger is you have this unique ability to, like, not engage. I don't engage with, like, certain pop culture where you enjoy listening to this if it's on the radio or whatever. But you don't, like, associate and go, okay, this. I'm gonna follow this artist.

[Ginger]

I don't even know.

[Jeremy]

I'm gonna follow this person. You just kind of, I know who.

[Ginger]

Forest Frank is because my kids know who Forest Frank is, and that's how I know. So they turn it on and we listen to all the songs before that. I didn't know who Forest Frank was. Felicity's like, oh, I wanna listen to this song. And so we'll turn on Celebration.

[Jeremy]

She'll dance, hey, so, Forest, you're more famous and popular to Ginger than Taylor.

[Ginger]

It's true. It's true. But, okay, so going back to that. I'm sitting in this theater, all these people, these swifties are standing behind me and they're singing. They have their shirts. They're so excited. It's really funny because I did not know half the songs. There was one or two songs that I was like, oh, I know a couple words to this song, and it's probably because I heard it in Goodwill, like, lyrical playing in the speakers above me or in a grocery store. So it's one of those things. Yeah, you're right. It's not like I'm trying to avoid it. I honestly just don't even care half the time, and I don't pay enough attention. So if I have a friend that I know, like Gabby Barrett. Well, I say Gabby Barrett, Gabby Fainer, Kade and Gabby. I listen to their music because I know them and I care. Because anybody I know or like, oh, it's this artist, Nick Manhart, you know, our friends from church. I'm like, I'm gonna listen to your album because I know you and I appreciate. I wanna support your music. So I'll do that with friends. But I also, like, there's a side of me that just doesn't have it together enough to remember names. So that's another side of it. It's like, I'm not remembering the artist's names half the time.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. And so it's so funny because then this person.

Legalistic fundamentalism is such a funny world because they have this view of, like, you can't touch or be associated in any way with the brokenness of this world. So they see you. You listened to Taylor Swift. And they think you've got to be shunned or rejected or you can't be platformed. And it is such a legalistic, kind of fundamentalist like, view and way to function in the world, which isn't. I would say it's immature, but it's also not how Christ wants us to function in the world. But it was so funny because you were going, wait, you could have just asked me. I would have told you. Like, I don't even know who she is. Or, like, I don't even. You know who she is.

[Ginger]

But, like, I knew who she was, but I. Yeah, I literally knew hardly any of the songs. It was hilarious.

[Jeremy]

It was so funny.

[Ginger]

But, yeah, that just shows you, though. I think this is a broader conversation for Christians, so we've talked a lot about this, but how do we, as Christians function in this world? I want you kind of to go into that because, yeah, there are things that are sinful that we should avoid because that's what God's word says. There are other areas that seem like each Christian is really gonna have to pray through and see. Like, what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to listen to this? Am I supposed to watch this? So I want you to talk about that for me.

[Jeremy]

Well, it's something we've talked about, but I think there's several principles that are very helpful. And I think it begins with to the pure. All things are pure. Titus 1:15, where the apostle Paul is laying a framework for Titus, letting him know, look, this world, it's a broken world, but it was made good and beautiful. So what's beautiful in this world is a product of God and his design. And there's so much in this world that's beautiful now. It's been tainted by sin, right? But even as you look at, like, the creativity of cinema and Disney, or if you listen to Taylor, who's got this incredible voice and is a very compelling lyricist, she's a phenomenal storyteller, Right? That's why tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people are gripped by her storytelling. I remember I grew up not too far from Wissahickon, where Taylor grew up, and I knew people in her high school and that sort of thing. And I remember when she was, like, kind of a Podunk country singer and then started to get her big break. And people were talking about it, like, in our high school, because it was like, hey, did you hear this about Taylor? Like, she's learning to get this. And I didn't know her personally at all. You Know, high school's over. But there were songs that were really compelling. I don't even know the names of them. But, like, remember, like, Corey's eyes are like, whatever. And that's like, maybe her first big song. And you go, man, that's really, like, really well written. Like, that's skilled. Well, that's a product of God's design and creation. And Paul says to Titus, to the pure, all things are pure. To Timothy in 1 Timothy 4, he says, hey, stay away from demonic liars who teach you that you've got to abstain from certain foods or you can't get married. That's not the only thing they were saying. They had a framework of there are things in this world that are inherently evil and you've got to stay away from, like, that food. And God goes, yeah, that's not how creation works. That's not how this world works. So there are people who say, you know, anything that is popular music is inherently evil. And so that's kind of the fundamentalist, right? Or the legalist who says, Taylor Swift, you know, you've got to stay away from every single thing. And I think the mature Christian would say, no to the pure. All things are pure. Which means I can listen to a song that's beautiful and appreciate it, right? And say, that was a good song and enjoy it. And then you listen to another song and you go, well, that's not beautiful. Like, that was saying, worship Satan, you know, and you go, well, no, so not going to listen to that. And you have the maturity to recognize, wow, this is beautiful. And I'll listen to it and enjoy it. I'll pick it up, I'll put it down that one that might be sinful because of what it's saying. And so we're going to stay away from that. But that takes discernment. But it begins with this idea of like, hey, you know, this whole world is God's.

[Ginger]

Yeah. I think that's an interesting conversation that should be had more often with Christians because it is categories. Often we see there's categories where people like, this is sinful, this is not. This is sinful. This is not. And it becomes very easy to just judge other people based on what you see. It's like, okay, that's good. You know, whatever you're looking at.

You can just quickly put somebody in a category. And I've done that. And I do that, sadly, because I'm like, oh, you would approve of that. Okay, that's just simple. How could you. Or people who are too tight Sometimes then you can also judge them in that way.

[Jeremy]

And we realize, like, our hearts are bent toward that. And like, for instance, when that speaker, you know, rejected you and refused to be on the platform with you, you go, oh, man, that doesn't feel good. And yet we do that to others in our hearts, right?

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

And you realize how unbiblical that is and how immature that is. And that's like Romans 14. The apostle Paul was dealing with that in Romans 14, where it was questions of food, it was questions of drink, it was celebration of feast days. And the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians were at each other's throats, judging each other and despising each other. And Paul goes, guys, the kingdom of heaven is not about who food and drink. It's about joy, righteousness, peace. I mean, it's about, like, love and purity. And he's telling them, hey, guys, stop, stop the divisions here. This is not what the kingdom of God is about. But even in that, the Apostle Paul, like, to the Corinthians talks about meat and says, guys, you know, meat is just meat, right? Because some were going, no, this meat was offered to idols. So this meat is inherently evil. Paul goes, no, it's just meat. And if it's 50% off because it was offered to an idol the day before, it's cheap meat. So get it, it's just meat. And yet he didn't want people to use their freedom as a means to divide. But there is this reality that to the pure, all things are pure.

[Ginger]

Now, what does that mean? Because I think that many, especially if you're not versed in, like, theology and knowing how to, how to, like, you know, read scripture properly, you could say, okay, that means everything's pure because I'm washed in the blood of Jesus. Great. I can watch anything, listen to anything, and I'm gonna be forgiven or my heart's gonna be pure in it. So how do we handle that? Because I think you gave a good illustration the other day about. You were talking about, like, if you walk into an art gallery. Oh, yeah, the art.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, yeah. So if you go to an art gallery, the fundamentalist is going to say there's some bad art in there. You are not allowed to go into art galleries. That's what they say about movie theaters, right? If you listen to an old school fundamentalist preacher, those theaters, because there's a bad movie in the theater and some punks with leather jackets are smoking cigarettes outside. You can't go to theaters as Christians. Categorically, it's off limits. Now, the person who might be called like an antinomian, like, oh, there's no law. We can do whatever we want. Let's say, who cares? Whatever, it doesn't matter. The mature Christian goes, well, no. As I walk into this art gallery, I recognize that beauty is a result of having a creator who loves beauty. Our expression of beauty as people is a reflection of us being made in that creator's image. So we're made in the image of God. So we love to create and love to. Art is a reflection of that.

The reality is this is a sin tainted world. But Jesus told his father, don't take them out of the world. We're called to be in this sin tainted world and function within it. So how do we do that? That means you walk into the art gallery and you enjoy what's beautiful. And then you see some pagan art. And if you have more impressionable minds, maybe you don't go in that room. Or if you have a maturity, you say, wow, okay, this is a reflection of man using their gift and their creativity, but they're using it to worship a false God. That's sad, but it's still something we can process. And if you see something that's explicitly celebrating sin, you'd say, well, I'm not going to join in that celebration. But there's a maturity to distinguish that, right? And say, this is good, this isn't so good. But not a fear, like you said before. A superstition of like, oh, no, it's gonna taint me because I was in the same presence.

[Ginger]

And you're unnecessarily gonna be bound by something spiritual that you didn't know. And yeah, okay, so going back to the Taylor Swift thing, it's interesting having watched that, I can't even remember what it's called. The Eros tour. There you go. So watching that, it's interesting. I was sitting there thinking, okay, I'm glad that my husband's not here for a couple sections where she went like into sensual stuff. And I thought, this is just really. It's dark. It's also like felt like she was trying to communicate something that as Christians, I don't think was pure. And so that, you know, there was that, that section. And then also when you think of things through the lens of like your kids, I also was like, man, I'm glad my daughter isn't here too, because she's seven and would be not at that time, but she's seven years old and she could look at that as like, oh, that's who I want to be. And ultimately, all we want for her is to love Jesus. And you can express yourself through music. I've seen so many people do that in an awesome way. Doesn't mean that all the songs have to be explicitly about Jesus. And even, like, we've taken Felicity to a concert or two with Gabby Barrett. That was one that she went to for King Country. Yeah. Kade and Gabby. But I always say Gabby Barrett because that's what the kids say. So we took her there, and she loves concerts and she loves to sing and loves to dance. So it's like there's some of that, but then we're also singing some songs even at those concerts. It's not like there are songs often that are. They're stories of heartbreak, like you said.

[Jeremy]

Yeah.

[Ginger]

The human experience and. Yeah. And that's something that I think that they're singing about. It's like not pointing them away from Jesus.

[Jeremy]

Right.

[Ginger]

But also just. That's the reality of the world that we're in.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. And I think the bigger that's getting to, the bigger issue is who are we allowing to form and shape us?

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

And so I remember years ago, Kanye west saying at music awards, telling the audience of fellow musicians and that we are the thought leaders of this generation. And he was right. So that's why you have. Like Kanye west also said years ago about Lady Gaga, like, I like some of Lady Gaga's music, but why is she doing an advertisement for cameras? What does she know about cameras? Right. And yet the camera company knows people are following this musician. So she says, hey, buy this camera. Even though she doesn't know a thing about cameras, they'll go, okay, Lady Gaga, we'll buy that. You see the influence of these people. They are thought leaders.

[Ginger]

It's a celebrity culture, really. Because they idolize them.

[Jeremy]

Yes. And they're forming how we think. They're forming our worldview. So take us, Taylor Swift, for instance. Taylor Swift, you know, classically writes breakup songs. And some very good, some less helpful. Why should I listen to her about politics? Right. Is she a poli sci expert? No, she just writes about, you know, breakup songs. And yet, for some reason, when she speaks, people take it authoritatively. And that's just. That is celebrity culture. But that creates the question for us as Christians, who are we allowing to shape our minds and our children's minds?

[Ginger]

And also, I think it is. I've noticed, this is just for me personally, that the more that I focus even on some of that, like what the world is telling me it can be there. But then there are also times where I'm like, wow, I need to renew my mind in the word of God, because there's a balance. I think that when you are grounded in the word, then that's what you're hearing and that's what you're running your mind through. Even as a mom, I struggle with this so much. There are days where I'm like, oh, it's the best thing being a mom. And then the next day I'm like, there's throw up or spit up all over me, boogers all over my black shirt like there was yesterday. And I'm cranky and I'm like, man, this is hard. I'm in the trenches right now. But then remembering, oh, wait, this is why this matters. I'm pouring into my kids. Would I trade this for anything else? Would I trade this to push papers? No, I wouldn't. So I'm thankful for that. And then also thinking about how is my response. Cause I struggle with that when I'm in the trenches. So it's like when I'm running my mind through, like, okay, this is hard, but what really matters? Going back to the word of God and renewing my mind to the word of God, or just having some music on or listening to an encouraging podcast, when I can't stop in the middle of my day to sit down and read the. The word, read the Bible for a bit, right? What I'm filling my mind with, if I'm filling it with like, oh, motherhood sucks. Oh, you need to go and live for yourself, right? Well, then, yeah, I'm going to have that perspective and I'm going to be cranky and I'm not going to love this, this whatever season. So I think when I'm filtering my mind through the word of God, then when I watch a movie, if I'm like, oh, this, you know, it's talking about hardship or whatever, I can be like, oh, yeah, that's sad. But then I see a redemptive nature in things because I have my mind focused first on the Lord, and I know what he expects of me and, like, how I'm living my life. I don't know if that makes sense.

[Jeremy]

That's brilliant. Because what we're trying to avoid on one ditch is the legalistic, fundamentalist, immature. We can't have anything to do with anything that is in the world at all. But on the other ditch is the same foolish, immature. Let's hand the microphone of influence over to people whose lives and worldview are not shaped by divine wisdom and let them saturate our minds. And you're saying in the middle, no, we're called every day to renew our minds by the divine wisdom of God through his word. And so what that does is it allows us to have an appropriate response of going, hey, this is a great movie, or this is a great film. I'll enjoy that. Hey, these are some great songs, man. Taylor Swift's a lyrical genius. I'll enjoy that. But then not say, therefore influence everything. And, you know, I give my thoughts and worldview over to you. What? That's equally as foolish as a full sail rejection. The response is, well, no, I'm going to choose who my friends are. The companion of fools will suffer harm. Right. And my friend is going to be God and his word. And I'm going to saturate myself in his wisdom. And then as I walk through life, it's actually going to allow us to live in a fallen world without retreating from it.

[Ginger]

And this is something that I remember now. You preached a sermon, talking about, I can't remember exactly what text it was, but about like, idols, things being put in the right position so when you have God on his throne, he's in the right place. Then all of the things below, you know, family, health, finances, things that you're given, those are all just things. They're in their proper place. And I think that no matter what we're focusing on, if it's like the world's gonna give me pleasure, just watching movies is gonna satisfy me. Like, even the satisfaction of that, of listening to a song. Like, I don't know if this is just totally a side, like a different thought. But when we're focusing on the Lord, then all those things can be enjoyed in their proper place. And you're not gonna turn them into an idol. Cause it's like, well, I know what matters the most is my relationship with God and what pleases him. So then if there's like, even if we're watching a show, we've done this, we've started a show, started watching through it, and then had to turn it off halfway through. We aren't gonna finish the season because it gets dark, it gets weird. And we're like, no.

[Jeremy]

Yes. That's the idea of, okay, we recognize we live in a fallen world, so everything's gonna be tainted by brokenness. So, perfect example, you and I start watching the show, first few episodes. Gripping, great storytelling, fascinating. But there's a couple bad words or there's like a Scene where you're like, ooh, let's skip that. But overall, pure, it's wholesome and we're enjoying it. And we go, okay, the elements of brokenness in that show are not what are riveting us, and that's not what we're celebrating. Yeah, we're riveted by what's pure and.

[Ginger]

Wholesome and the storytelling.

[Jeremy]

And then you recognize, yeah, there's elements of tainted brokenness. But then once it flips and it starts, now you're watching, going, oh, this is calling us to revel in and celebrate what's evil. We go, I don't want to do that. Ephesians 5. Read Ephesians 5. We don't delight in that. So we're going, next show. It turned a corner. And I think that's really helpful for Christians to recognize is just because something has elements of brokenness doesn't mean you can't enjoy what's beautiful and pure about it. Now, if it's calling you to delight in what is explicitly wrong and sinful, well, Christians say, no, I don't delight in that because I delight on things that are pure. Set your mind on things that are true, pure, wholesome. Paul tells the Philippians in Philippians 4. But if I'm going to say I will never allow anything, any element of brokenness to ever come into my purview, well, then you will have to go out of the world. And that's why Paul says in First Corinthians 5, I'm not telling you not to eat with drunkards and sexually immoral and revilers. He. He says, literally, otherwise you'd have to go out of the world. What I'm telling you is to be in the world, but not of it. To be salt and light in the world.

[Ginger]

That right there, though, Jer, we've seen it so many times. There's so much, even evil in our own hearts, and especially in settings where they will not. They'll reject the world completely. What did you say last night? We were talking about getting ready for this episode for a minute, and you said something about the evil is within.

[Jeremy]

Oh, yeah. So the fundamentalist, right, who says nothing. You can't have any association with anything they would say, you know, you can't listen to even a good song by Taylor Swift because it's Taylor Swift. It's like wholesale rejection. What they think is, if we build high enough fences, cut off the Internet, have no access to the world, build communes and live out alone, isolated as a Christian community, will be pure and what they forget is that impurity comes from the heart.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

So the world is in here.

[Ginger]

Yes.

[Jeremy]

And so why is it that Paul writing to the Corinthians, which was Corinth, was Vegas on steroids. Right. Like Sin City in ancient Grecian culture, if people wanted to insult you because you were especially vile, they'd say, you Corinthian. And if you read Paul's letters to the Corinthians, not once does he tell them, leave Corinth. And they were wrestling with things of Corinth. They were wrestling with immorality, greed, manipulation, cruelty, division. And he never says, guys, your problem is you're in Corinth. He simply says, wait, but don't you know Christ is in you? Why would you walk in immorality? Because Christ is in you. So Paul's not looking at Corinth and the bricks on the street and the buildings as inherently evil. He's saying, no, no, if there's an impurity in your heart, you'll indulge in evil. But if there's a purity in your heart, you can walk through a very tainted world righteously. Now, I do think there is a domain of wisdom here where each person needs to ask the Lord for how to take his truth and apply it in their life. And for some, that will look like saying, you know what? We're not gonna subscribe to Disney. As for us in our house, that's wisdom and that's good. For others like us, we have Disney, but we exercise as parents, discernment and saying, well, kids, we're not gonna watch this, but we will watch this. The ability to say, this is good, that's not good. So let's have some discernment here.

And ultimately, I think if we're thinking about parents engagement, but even our own engagement with the world, we do need to be very careful about who is influencing us and who we're giving that great privilege of influence to. Because it's no mystery that people are vying for influence in our life. That's why people are called influencers. Right? That's why a Kanye west years ago says, we are the thought influencers of this generation. And he's right. And so then you have to ask the question, well, then what are they being influenced toward? So we would look at a Forest Frank and go, hey, Felicity, enjoy that all day. Hey, Siri, play Forest Frank essentials. Whereas with others, we'd say, well, no, we're not just going to give that unrestrained influence over. Does that make sense?

[Ginger]

Yeah, it does.

[Jeremy]

And So I do, you know, I would encourage Christians like, yeah, promote and support godly artists and companies. But also, I do think this is an area of wisdom and each person has to decide.

[Ginger]

Yeah. Because then at some point, like, even if you're saying, okay, like the movie theater is evil, well, then you have to go and say the grocery store is evil too, because they have bad magazines and the people who own it are not Christians. So then.

[Jeremy]

Or they sell liquor and so you can't go anywhere.

[Ginger]

And I've seen so many people who react, and I get it. There have been here and there. I've felt the need to boycott a store because of something just in your face, like, well, they might be explicitly.

[Jeremy]

Going, hey, we're all gonna go against Christianity. You know what? I'm not gonna, I'll just go down the street.

[Ginger]

And so I've done that for like, you know, that season. But then also, I think that when it comes to the bigger picture of how we operate in the world, we are, we are buying, selling and trading with people who are not Christians. And that's how we were designed to do.

[Jeremy]

They're not the enemy.

[Ginger]

Yeah. And also I think even on that, like, then we have Christians who quickly isolate so much to where they're like, oh, I can't work a regular job because that's not actually glorifying to God. I can't become a nurse or a doctor or I can't become a post office worker and push papers.

[Jeremy]

And they say, like, working in the church is the. Where every Christian needs to speak.

[Ginger]

Every Christian?

[Jeremy]

No, no.

[Ginger]

We need Christianity in the world, but not of it. And like even just, you know, being salt and light where you are, because you have to let your light shine for a minute. I was reading that this morning and it's, it's just one of those things that you can quickly isolate, insulate yourself to where you're useless, to the, to sharing the gospel with anybody around you. So I think that's, that's just one more thing I wanted to throw in there.

[Jeremy]

Well, you just opened a can of worms that we should fly down. I, yeah, I think that's an excellent, that's excellent insight and it's what we're called to do. And yeah, I just think there's wisdom there and we need to exercise wisdom. And that requires us going, lord, give me insight, give me wisdom. How do I function in this world? And you know what? For some, they're going to go, I just know that I don't have the self control to have Netflix and, and not watch something that I shouldn't watch. Well, then don't get Netflix. Yeah, like, and that's good and right for you. But then I think there's a tendency because the Internet Christians then turn around, go, hey, it's free to have Netflix. And you go, bruh. What? You can't tell me that.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

So, yeah, there's wisdom that's required. And I think you've got a lot of it, Ginger. Thanks for sharing that. All right, well, guys, thanks for hanging out.

It's a lot of fun. I love sitting here talking. You know what's really cool about this podcast is I get to just sit down with my best friend on the couch and just talk. And then it's like, oh, yeah, you guys are here listening in.

[Ginger]

It really is so much fun.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I enjoy it with you.

[Ginger]

It's so good.

[Jeremy]

All right, guys, like subscribe, do the whole thing and we will see you next week.

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here, wishing you a very happy half off holiday because. Because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half the price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

[Ginger]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

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[Ginger]

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