← The Jinger & Jeremy Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Childhood bullying is a real problem, and we want to talk about it today.
- [00:06]
B
Well, let's get into it. The cyberbullying, it's happening all over. And ultimately this foundation needs to be built. These conversations need to be had from a very early age before they ever encounter any of that.
- [00:21]
A
We wanted to give our daughters and our son now a right perspective of how do you view a bully? So let him light shine as you walk through the world and remember, you always belong. What's going on, guys? Welcome to the Ginger and Jeremy podcast for another episode. Ginger, you look beautiful today.
- [00:46]
B
Oh, thank you. You look handsome.
- [00:49]
A
That was an encouragement. If you listen to us audio only, we have a YouTube channel and you can go watch us. That actually wasn't a planned hook, but, uh, here's what we're talking about today, Ginge. Childhood bullying is a real problem. But bullying doesn't only stay concentrated to childhood.
- [01:13]
B
It doesn't, unfortunately.
- [01:15]
A
It often follows us into adulthood and can take various forms. And I think it usually does morph from, you know, something on the playground to in our day and age, being all over the Internet.
- [01:28]
B
Oh, social media bullying. Yes. That's a huge thing.
- [01:33]
A
Cyberbullying. There's something about the anonymity that people are afforded to say whatever they want and actually to really say what they would say in person, if not for, like, social decorum or, you know, the sort of stigma from being mean in person. I mean, although some people can be. And we want to talk about it today. Well, let's get into it, because we, I think being public facing in some way, you having grown up on tv, this was a conversation that we had very early on in our marriage was how are we going to deal with people's opinions about us online, in a magazine, whatever. Because people have a lot of opinions, especially when you're in the public eye, whether it was your family, and then that kind of, like, trickles down to you and your siblings just by default.
- [02:32]
B
Yeah.
- [02:34]
A
But do you remember what we kind of committed to early on?
- [02:38]
B
We committed to not reading the headlines and trying to focus on just living our lives, to glorify God and being a part of community and not allowing the negative to affect us. And so I think part of that was just not Googling our name, not looking up and seeing what was up with all of the news outlets or the negative stuff that was going around. And I think that that was healthy for us, especially for just starting early marriage. That is something that could have been challenging. Another thing to add to a marriage which is not going to be great. Like to have other opinions and get in your own head about stuff. Especially because we were still filming the show at that time. And I think that it could have been an extra burden that we just didn't need to carry in that time. And I will say, though, because fast forwarding to even a couple years ago, there was a time where I was Googling just to see what was out there, and there was a reason for that, and I felt the necessity to do that in a certain time.
- [03:48]
A
Yeah.
- [03:49]
B
And. And I was okay because I also had grown so much. And I think that for all those years, even growing up on. In the. In the public space, I remember my parents handled it well. They would always tell us that we did not need to, like, focus on the naysayers because they're so loud. And I think that that's part of it, because you always have people who are going to be the negative tones that are gonna come through on things, and they may be like, oh, I kind of don't like you. But then when you're like you said behind a screen, then that's when all the anger comes out and frustration. And so I think that sometimes not leaning into that is actually helpful.
- [04:36]
A
But you have done a little bit of Googling over the last few years.
- [04:39]
B
I have. I have done some. And not that much, though, because I feel like anytime it starts to affect me, then I realize, oh, this is not healthy and I need to stop.
- [04:48]
A
You know, one day our kids are gonna Google their own names, and it is curious, like, what are they gonna find? And so we actually Googled. Well, I say we. Our producer did a Google search on our names, I think on Google, actually, and then through Reddit, and we've actually collected for you listeners, like, some of these topics and headlines. And I guess what you could say, some of it might be like, cyber bullying or just people sharing their very strong opinions, negative opinions. And so we actually want to read through some of those today and react to those because it's interesting what people will say. And I've got to say, some of the headlines that were sent were very offensive to me because once you start talking about male pattern balding ginge, cuts you right to the heart. Cuts you right to the heart. You know, I'm a male. I'm just living my life in my mid-30s, folks.
- [05:50]
B
Oh, my goodness.
- [05:52]
A
No, I'm kidding. But I will say this. We did say early on in our marriage, if we allow people's praise to go to our head, then people's Criticism will cut us to the heart. And so by kind of shielding ourselves a bit and saying, look, I'm not going to, like, read these headlines or people's opinions on some subreddit, you know, like the dark web of, like, people's unbridled opinions, you go, yeah, because there is a temptation to be like, hey, look, somebody said something nice. And then thinking, wow, you know, thinking well of yourself. And then something says something negative and you're crushed by it. We should get into some of these because, yeah, it's interesting to see what people say. And what's an interesting facet is how people perceive your reality from a distance is reflected in what they share. And sometimes it is.
- [06:47]
B
So their assumptions, basically.
- [06:49]
A
Totally.
- [06:51]
B
We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Cosmart.
- [06:54]
A
I don't think you need us to tell you the importance of having home security. I mean, it's very important for us. The first thing we've done in every home we've moved into is install a brand new security system. A lot of times it's been incredibly expensive and a lot of hassle. But now with Covesmart, you can install security all around your home. It's easy to access, it's mobile. You can always check your cameras. There's so many options. Covesmart is really a great solution for security.
- [07:21]
B
Yeah, it is. And I like that it's for just almost like a little under a dollar a day. You are protecting your home, your loved ones, your possessions, and you're able to see what's happening at your place even when you're not there.
- [07:34]
A
Yeah, they have live stream, so you can stream if you're at home. If you're away, you can see what's happening around your house. It's so easy to set up. Their website's really nice. Check it out. You'll find it really convenient. So make protecting your home a top priority. Check out covesmart.com gingerbread or use code Ginger at checkout for up to. Check this out. 60% off your first order.
- [07:57]
B
Crazy.
- [07:58]
A
So go to covesmart.com ginger use code ginger for up to 60% off on your first order. You'll never regret taking more measures to protect your family.
- [08:08]
B
We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about function, health.
- [08:11]
A
Yeah. So most people assume that their health, like their heart, is healthy if they have good cholesterol levels. But there are certain tests, like lipoproteins that you cannot be aware of unless you specifically ask your doctor to test them. And they might be wildly unhealthy, out of range, but Function Health shows you it gives you a 360 degree. Is that the right term or is it 180 degree? It gives you a full orbed view of what's happening in your body to know whether you're truly healthy.
- [08:39]
B
Yeah, it's super awesome because they test for all these biomarkers and you are able to get that comprehensive view of what's happening. And I think that it really would save so many people from a lot of finding out later what's going on inside when you're super tired, super wiped out, and you're like, oh, I'm depleted and everything. Well, go ahead and check out what is happening inside your body with Function Health.
- [09:03]
A
Own your health for just $365 a year. That's a dollar a day. Visit functionhealth.com ginger and use gift code ginger for $25 credit toward your membership.
- [09:16]
B
Now back to the episode.
- [09:18]
A
Okay, so let's jump in. Okay, we're going to begin with one ginge. That's going to hit very close to home for you. This is an article that was written from the US sun and it says close call. Ginger Duggar defies family with shorts and tanks as she nearly falls on grocery run.
- [09:41]
B
Oh yeah, oh yeah. I nearly face planted when I was out shopping one day.
- [09:48]
A
And it begins with this innocent photo of Ginger.
- [09:53]
B
There I am, so I'm pushing a shopping cart. It was in Covid time and I was like pushing the shopping cart out getting supplies for Felicity's birthday. If I remember. I think it was July and I was getting her birthday party supplies and I was followed to the store and there were photos taken and a couple days later I looked at them. Somehow I think either I saw it or somebody sent it to me and I saw these photos and I literally could not stop laughing for like two days. Right to the point where I typically don't put things on Instagram, share anything that's like tabloid related. But that was one that I literally every time I would think of that incident, it's one of those where I'm like, okay, this is exactly what happened. I walked out of the store. There's like a divot in the, the parking lot from where the store's like driveway hits the parking lot. There was a big bump and I knew it. I've been to that grocery store so many times. But the problem was I had waited down the front of my cart with bags of ice and I had like water bottles and I think it was just imbalanced, so the entire cart goes up in the air.
- [11:06]
A
That is so funny.
- [11:07]
B
And I caught it and pulled it back down. And it was like I felt so embarrassed in that moment when it happened. And I was like, good thing. I don't think anybody was really paying attention. A couple people saw it, but it's kind of like one of those moments that could have been like one of your most embarrassing moments, because I was going pretty fast on a mission and that thing just flipped up and I caught it and pulled it back down, and so I saved the shopping cart. But then those photos have haunted me for all these years. No, I'm kidding. Hasn't haunted me. It actually makes me.
- [11:39]
A
It was really funny.
- [11:40]
B
It really does.
- [11:41]
A
I remember you coming home and sharing that story, because that was at a time when we had just moved to LA and people were taking more photos and things, and we would see those pop up, you know, a day after, you'd be like, wow, I didn't even see anybody.
- [11:52]
B
Yeah, they were there following.
- [11:53]
A
And you were like, pretty sure nobody got this. And sure enough, like, a couple days later, it comes out. That was really.
- [11:58]
B
That was just the odds of that somebody being there to capture that moment. It's pretty incredible.
- [12:04]
A
So here's one. This is from Reddit, and this is. This is funny. This is interesting. Well, it's not, like, funny, but it's, like, interesting to see how people observe things. So this was several years ago when mom came to visit with Jana, Jason and James. And there's a photo, the caption or whatever is interesting. Body language observed between Gingerbread and her siblings. And the commenters say, well, basically they say Michelle is being chaperoned by her siblings around Ginger because Michelle. Yeah, you're right.
- [12:42]
B
Is being chaperoned by her siblings.
- [12:44]
A
Oh, I'm sorry. By your siblings. Michelle's being chaperoned by her kids around you, your siblings, to protect Michelle from you. And it's because.
- [12:54]
B
Because we're all walking together in this photo.
- [12:56]
A
They. They're. They're walking away from you. And so there's space.
- [13:02]
B
There's space between us. Oh, I should have been standing.
- [13:05]
A
So they go, interesting body language.
- [13:07]
B
That's right. I should have stepped like 2 inches to the left.
- [13:10]
A
Right.
- [13:10]
B
That way I was shoulder to shoulder with them. Instead of, like, looks like I'm walking away. Wow. We were out for a stroll in the neighborhood, I bet. I know, that's hilarious.
- [13:19]
A
But it's funny. Like, they see, oh, there's distance. Like, James, Jason and Janna are Close. Gingerbread.
- [13:25]
B
Ginger's just a little bit away.
- [13:27]
A
And they go. Interesting, isn't it? Like, they're obviously distant from one another.
- [13:31]
B
That is interesting. Okay, so it's funny. I always wonder who writes these articles.
- [13:37]
A
Well, this was an article. This is Reddit, so this is just somebody.
- [13:40]
B
I always wonder, though, articles regardless, like, if it's a tabloid setup or something like that. I always wonder who is sitting there trying to make a story line out of nothing. Like, literally nothing. I cannot think that deeply to, like, create a. I, I, I could never write a novel. Like, that's something I just couldn't do. That's like, you know, something that is gonna just, oh, look, the imagination of these people. I don't know. But what, what I was gonna say about that too, before I, I forget. I was thinking that part of this is. It actually kind of tells you, like, about our minds because they're reading into that and making up a story because they want to. But, like, even with me, I can walk into a room and think, oh, man, everybody's thinking about me. They're thinking this and, or this person doesn't approve of me because of maybe some body language thing that they've done.
- [14:33]
A
Right. Right.
- [14:34]
B
Like, the way that, you know, they're perceiving me right now.
- [14:37]
A
Yeah.
- [14:38]
B
Is bad. And then come to find out that person could not even be thinking about that. Or like, sometimes I'll ask you. It's kind of funny. I'll be like, hey, what are you thinking? Because I think you're thinking about something super deep and you're like, actually, I'm not thinking about anything. I was thinking I need to, like, dust that ceiling fan. And I'm like, okay, great, that's, that's wonderful.
- [14:58]
A
But, like, our perceptions on people.
- [15:01]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [15:02]
A
So this is, this is what the comment said. The person posted it and then says, see how far apart they are walking from her? They seem to be 100% there. To chaperone Michelle, why a grown woman needed three chaperones, I will never understand you. What are you talking about, chaperones?
- [15:19]
B
Like, we're like, that's hilarious.
- [15:22]
A
She visited her daughter with her kids.
- [15:25]
B
That is so funny.
- [15:26]
A
But they have this perception, you know what a lot of it is? I think they try to. And this is like, how tabloids would sell, too. Yeah, it's. They sell this way because I think people's minds work this way.
- [15:36]
B
Yeah.
- [15:37]
A
They want there to be like a clickbait. Clickbait. But they want there to be a morsel of gossip of like, oh, there's tension. There's.
- [15:43]
B
There's always narrative. That's not true.
- [15:45]
A
Have you ever seen. It's funny. And it's often from pictures. Like, this is a snapshot of, you know, somebody took the picture and probably four seconds later, you probably switched positions and would have had a completely different narrative. Like, been a little closer to Jana or something. But have you ever even taken a picture of yourself and your facial expression is so bizarre, and you go, oh, my goodness, like, I need to redo that. Or you see a picture yourself, eyes half closed, and you. You look so, like, you're like, oh, that's a horrible picture.
- [16:16]
B
Or you just forget to put on mascara. And they're like, oh, you look so tired. Why are you so exhausted? I'm like, maybe I should just add a little bit of pop to my eyes.
- [16:25]
A
Yeah. But then they read into it, like, okay, the. The flash of the camera caught you in a moment transition or something. And then they go, oh, therefore your life must be falling apart on these levels. So they're reading into it for sure. Okay, let me read another one. This was. Oh, this was on. This is about our most recent dating app episode. So our episode which came out about dating apps, I guess someone put on Reddit that they're so pretentious. Why would a couple who've been married for a decade and presumably not meet on a dating app be qualified to talk about this subject? And then there are 57 comments about that. Like, how would they know? How can you give advice on something you've never experienced? Just like getting after this episode where we talk about dating apps.
- [17:22]
B
That's so fascinating. It's interesting because we can't talk about anything unless we've fully experienced it. And we've been on that. We're not seeing that.
- [17:30]
A
We haven't been on a dating app. My buddy signed me up for Christian Mingles.
- [17:34]
B
Jeremy was on a dating app, actually.
- [17:36]
A
When I was at New York.
- [17:37]
B
Yep. When you were in New York. Yep. That's right. So Jeremy was on a dating app, guys. He was.
- [17:44]
A
Yeah.
- [17:45]
B
But it's one of those things that, yeah, there's. It's interesting. There's so many opinions on everything. And so if you just lean into it and you feel like these people are going to now determine, oh, my goodness, we can't talk about anything because.
- [17:59]
A
There is something about, like, there's something where. If you think, oh, man, what are they going to say about me? Yeah, it could form. I mean, so much of. I mean, that's silly. Right. Like, we're not going to not do an episode on a topic because somebody in the stratosphere is going, why are they talking about that? But, like, think about a kid who's being bullied and they bring up a topic or they say, hey, let's talk about this. And someone says, that's so stupid. Why would you say that? Why are we talking? We're not going to talk about that. Then the next time they're going to go, oh, maybe what I want to talk about won't be accepted. Or maybe I can't say this around them.
- [18:38]
B
Shut me down.
- [18:39]
A
And it can, it can start to shut you down.
- [18:40]
B
I did that for a while, honestly, like, on social media. I remember there was a season where there was so much critique happening, and also we were being followed a lot, and I just started to, like, just shut down over it. I literally did not. I, I, I had been fine for so many years, and then it started to really get to me, and I was thinking, well, why would I post online if I'm just gonna be eaten alive? Basically throw out to the sharks every time I put something out. And then I was overthinking everything. And so I was thinking, well, now I can't actually be real and share my real life because I know what they want me to share. And, and it's not my real life. Because if you're going to attack every little thing, like, I would have, like, something sitting on the counter and they'd be like, don't. You know that's a hazard, that's dangerous. It could, you know, what if that slipped off the counter and it landed on your foot? You know, like stuff, like, really ridiculous. And it would be like a kid's car seat belt that was, they, they thought was not buckled properly, even though it was up to code or whatever. And there would be an attack on that. Or it's like something really silly. Your hair looks ridiculous. You know that your hairline's missing because of pregnancy, because of having a baby. And I'm like, we. When you start to lean into all that, I, I think there was a season where I knew that I did not want to have to deal with it. And so I kind of just stopped posting for a little while. Yeah. And so you'll, you'd see lulz in my Instagram. It's not always true. Sometimes people will jump on that too. Like, if you aren't on Instagram for a month, they're like, are you okay? Are you fine? And I'm like, no, that was actually healthy for everybody to do take a break from Instagram. And there are times where I really enjoy sharing my life on social media and so I'll do that. But I think that the opinions for while it started to really get to me and so I stepped back and and then we also are not sharing our kids and so people have opinions about why we do that, why we don't do that. Assumptions are made. We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about trust and will.
- [20:55]
A
Yeah. One of the things that can give you and your family peace of mind is having a living will so that you know if anything happens to you, your assets, your finances and also the care and protection of your children will go to whom, where, when you want it to go. So if we were to pass away, we know exactly who gets custody of our children. There's no going through the state because of trust and will. We have a living will and it really gives peace of mind.
- [21:19]
B
Yeah, I think it's something. It's one of the best gifts that you can give to your family, your loved ones. And so take that time and go ahead and reach out to Trust and.
- [21:29]
A
Will protect your legacy and your loved ones today, tomorrow and beyond with Trust and Will, the most trusted name in online estate planning. Go to trustandwill.com ginger and get 20% off. That's trust and will com ginger to get 20% off. That's a huge deal. It's a great way to get started. This is probably the reminder you need to really take that step to care for your family.
- [21:54]
B
We want to take a break from this episode to tell you about Nutrafol.
- [21:57]
A
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- [22:10]
B
Yeah, I have love neutrophil, especially postpartum because I struggled so much with postpartum hair loss and neutrophil is an awesome way to be able to supplement to help your hair improve. And so I think that anybody who is walking through that gift it to somebody who is postpartum, it's going to be their best friend.
- [22:30]
A
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- [23:08]
B
Now back to the episode.
- [23:10]
A
Listen to this post. Is the unhappiness of Jeremy and Ginger's marriage blown out of proportion? The person writes, this isn't in response to any particular post, but ever since I first started reading, it's been, I guess, read it. It's been stated as fact that Jeremy is a jerk to her, makes fun of her constantly, and has a narcissist who's probably abusing her. There's a couple different split narratives about whether he's pretentious and isn't as smart as he thinks he is or if he is actually brilliant and looks down on Ginger for being dumb. But either way, it's pretty unanimous. She must be miserable.
- [23:41]
B
Oh, my goodness. So it's like, that's crazy.
- [23:45]
A
They've got these narratives on our marriage.
- [23:48]
B
They do on every single. Like, half of my friends I follow on social media, they're always thinking that there's marriage problems. That's one of the number one tabloid issues. It's like if we were walking down the street and there's a picture, picture, and I'm looking to the side, they're like, oh, marriage problems. Yeah. And I think that that's something that people. It's an easy. It's an easy thing to say because ultimately it is true. Behind closed doors, you. You are the one who knows exactly who that person is. And I think that part of it is too, like, you almost don't want to address it, like, oh, we're doing great. Because then people are like, oh, yeah? Well, are you gonna believe that? Because honestly, like, if you are just answering every single person on every little.
- [24:36]
A
Detail, it gives, like, credibility.
- [24:37]
B
Yeah. And it's, like, ridiculous. So I think that sometimes there are things that you can speak to. And to set the record straight, Jeremy is the most patient, loving, and kind person. And if you know him, to know him is to love him. And I was just actually talking to somebody from your work yesterday, and they were just saying what a gift it is to be able to work with you and how much fun you guys have. But then also, just for that friendship that you. You really do pour into everyone that you're around, and you're a lot of fun to be around. And I could not agree more. I. I'm always sad when you head out in the morning for work, and then because I. I really, genuinely have fun being around you. So anytime that, you know, you're. We're on vacation or you get a break from that work schedule in our daily routine, I love it. I love hanging out with you 24 7. And also, just so you guys know, this is something, too. I think that there are ways that in marriage, people can put their spouse down or make them feel less than. But you've never done that with me. And I think you've only pushed me to grow when I've been uncomfortable. The only time you've pushed me is when I. I'm almost like, want to stay in my little rut, and I'm like, I don't want to grow in that season, and I'm uncomfortable over something that. That I'm insecure about. And that's when you push me. That's the only time I've felt you push me is when you know that it's good for me and I could grow from it and. And thrive, like, blossom. Because you want to see me. Like, I. For a while, I was like, oh, I want to go learn to play golf. And I was too embarrassed to go out and try. And you said, don't be embarrassed about this. See, I always get emotional. I hate getting emotional. But you would say, like, okay, well, go try something new. And I'd say, well, I really want to do golf, but I don't know how to even get started. So we went out a couple times. I was terrible, like, to putting Grease. I was horrible at it. So you got me a golf lesson, and I did that. And the golf teacher was like, oh, yeah, you can actually hit pretty decent. Like, because of the control of, like, playing piano, you have more strength in your hands. Whatever. I'm not great. But, like, even some of those golf.
- [26:52]
A
Unless you're on the tour.
- [26:54]
B
Yeah, but it was fun because then you pushed me. You're like, don't be afraid. Because I would go out there, and even just at the putting green, I hit some really terrible balls and be embarrassed by it because I felt like I was looking around, other people were doing great. But, like, you're like, don't give up. Just keep trying. Like, you push me in things that I would typically just be embarrassed and, like, walk away. And I'd be like, well, forget it. I'm never gonna do that. Or, like, working out at the gym. I'd never really done that before, and you encouraged me to do it, and now I'm loving it. And so there are some of those things where you only push me to be a better person and to grow. If, you know it's, like, an insecurity or I'm, like, embarrassed by it, you just challenge me. Like, hey, think about it. What are you gonna lose if you don't do it? And I think that that's. That's something that I really love about you. And you're very patient, too. So, like, you're not, like, get over it. You should know how to do this. Like, just, you know, like, move forward. You never do that with me. You're very patient and know when to push me and when not to. Yeah. Anyhow, that was my little rant. Now I'm done. And now I have tears dripping down my face. Thank you. I have tissues.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah.
- [28:09]
B
I should be sponsored by Kleenex. That'd be a great partnership.
- [28:15]
A
Okay, here's. Here's a post that has me laughing.
- [28:20]
B
I'm nervous now.
- [28:21]
A
Why does Ginger look so dead inside lately? Is she finally sick of Jeremy talking?
- [28:30]
B
The only thing I'd be sick about that Jeremy has done is. Is. Should I say it?
- [28:41]
A
Say it. What are you gonna say?
- [28:44]
B
It's just when it's. It's just when you get in your goofy mode, and I'm not on my goofy mode. That's the only thing. But I would say, oh, not right now, because you are so funny, and you will use humor. There's only ever once in a while use humor. And I'm, like, really exhausted. Or it's, like, late at night, and.
- [29:01]
A
I'm like, bad timing.
- [29:02]
B
I say, hey, you know, whatever it is, I'm asking you a question, and you come back with something hilarious, but I'm not mood for it. And I'm like, no, not right now, babe. Yeah, but you're very funny all the time, and Felicity has your humor, and I kind of love it. And I'm kind of terrified.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah, I'm kind of terrified, too. I'm not gonna lie to you. I realize, oh, man. This is what I do to people.
- [29:24]
B
Let me just say, if I look so tired, if I look so exhausted, it's because I am still nursing a baby, my third child. And see, I look at the camera when I say these things because it matters. Yeah, maybe I'm tired. I am tired because I am in that season of nursing a baby who wakes up a lot at night. He'll get up and take him. There were multiple nights where even recently he has not wanted to go to bed. And I'm so exhausted. And when I get to that point where I'm just like, it could be 10:30 at night, 11, and I'm just wiped and he just will not fall asleep. You'll just take him downstairs, watch your show, and let him hang out and keep him for a couple hours and then bring him back and then I'll nurse him again and then he'll eventually go down. But, like, I think that it's. It's part of that. That thing too, where I'm like, okay, should I just not show up on social media if I look tired because I am tired of motherhood?
- [30:25]
A
Yeah, I think it's motherhood. I think the majority of people have grace as they view someone and go, man, she's a mom who's doing a great job. Maybe she's tired today. But then you have somebody who goes, she looks dead inside. Which is like the meanest way of saying, like, oh, you look tired. And it's the meanest construction on someone. And isn't it funny in 2026 with all this, like, body positivity stuff.
- [30:50]
B
Yes. That they can still.
- [30:51]
A
People say that people like body shame and like, yeah, physical and like, why.
- [30:55]
B
Aren'T you wearing makeup? I do not wear makeup every single day. Let me just say that because part of it is like, your skin needs a break and you need a break from putting makeup on. You always say that you're like, you don't need makeup. But then after I've had a couple nights where I was really tired, I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh, maybe I should put a little something, just a little concealer under the eyes could not hurt. So it's great.
- [31:20]
A
But you know, when, when you start putting, like, credence toward what someone says, and I think it's natural to do that. Right?
- [31:27]
B
Yeah.
- [31:27]
A
Like, we start putting credence because we do want to be approved by others. You realize, like, oh, man, if. If I was in a posture of gaining my own sense of self worth or value from what other people said, I would put a lot of weight into this criticism and that would really do some damage. Right. This is actually why we've written our children's book, which has just come out and is being released, is because working through the stuff you and I have had to work through, which is part of your journey of people pleasing, which you wrote about in your book People Pleaser, we've now realized you know, it's one thing for adults to deal with this and then be able to go, okay, well, that person has no actual perspective on reality. Right. Like that one. Remember that one tabloid that came out and said, I was probably beating you, and people were concerned that I was being physically abusive because there was a picture of us on an airplane and the shadow.
- [32:32]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [32:32]
A
From the light. Was covering your eyes and so there was a shadow on your eyes.
- [32:36]
B
Yeah. Was I wearing a hat or something? Or maybe not. No, I wasn't wearing a hat, but. But I was asleep on the plane, I think. Were we on our way to our honeymoon?
- [32:44]
A
No, I don't think it was honeymoon.
- [32:45]
B
Or was that later, our conference?
- [32:46]
A
No, it was later because we were in our marriage. But people were saying, oh, is he being abusive? And you go, yeah, this is no perspective on reality. Right.
- [32:54]
B
Yep.
- [32:56]
A
But this. This starts very young. And like we've said with our book, we wanted to give our daughters. I think I have a copy of it. Yeah. We wanted to give our daughters and our son now a right perspective of how do you view a bully? And not just a bully, but, like, anybody's opinion, because not everybody who says something cruel or says something is necessarily a bully. But people can say sharp things or not even saying sharp things. But how do you go through life? Not rising or falling.
- [33:34]
B
Yes.
- [33:35]
A
With everyone else's opinion of you, and not in a way where you go, I just don't need people.
- [33:42]
B
Yeah. And that's the other danger, I think, because some people are like, oh, I don't care what anybody says, especially people close to me. And they just block out every single voice, every single criticism, because they're like, I am enough. I've got it in myself. And that's just not right either.
- [33:57]
A
But it's actually not true. Like, I don't think. I think people try to block everybody out with that approach of, like, I don't care what any of you say. I think they actually do.
- [34:07]
B
Yeah.
- [34:07]
A
Like, I think if someone that they really cared about came to them and in a moment of honesty, said, I love you so much, and it doesn't matter the disagreements we've had. I value our friendship, or, you're this. You mean the world to me. I think it would actually impact that person.
- [34:26]
B
Yeah. That's so true.
- [34:27]
A
Even though they've kind of put on and said, I don't care what anybody says because they've been mistreated. Yep. But it is a response like. Like, for instance, we could take the response of like, well, I Don't care what the public says. I don't care. Well, that's not true. We, we want to be. We want to have good relationships with people and feedback.
- [34:44]
B
I think it's helpful, like on anything that you do to have positive and negative feedback. It's good because that's a healthy discussion.
- [34:51]
A
Totally.
- [34:51]
B
We all need it. And I think that especially though. So talking about finding your identity and knowing that you always belong, I think that there's a new danger that we're seeing online with young people online. And I think that's something that is scary. So you have to build these foundations of knowing what's. Who you are. The cyberbullying, it's happening all over and you'll have young teens get on these chat forums and it's like leads to terrible places. And so I think that ultimately this foundation needs to be built. These conversations need to be had from a very early age before they ever encounter any of that. Because that's. Hopefully they will never have to. But I'm thinking that it matters now more than ever because we have. There's so much struggle there, there's so much uncertainty in kids hearts too about, you know, trying to perform, put your best foot forward on social media, wherever and. And so I think that it's just next level these days.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah. And that's why, I mean as we open this book and actually it's out now so you can get a copy. And so I, I want to actually share some of this with our audience and read some of it.
- [36:11]
B
We added pandas. So this is a fun note.
- [36:14]
A
That is a fun note.
- [36:15]
B
We added pandas on this page because our Evie Jo, she's obsessed with Peter Pandas and she always has been. And I was obsessed with pandas as a kid. And so we had them add in some fun little things for our kiddos and that's one of them.
- [36:31]
A
But it starts out, look all around you. What do you see? A world filled with wondrous things like oceans and mountains and big hairy beasts and colorful creatures with wings. And there at the center is little Ol Yu, God's greatest creation by far. Created to be part of his family. Made to be loved just as you are. You were. And this is kind of the theme that goes throughout the book. You were made to be part of God's story. A beautiful note in his song. So let his light shine as you walk through the world and remember you always belong. And so that's kind of the theme. But then here's like, as we go through these different scenarios with the kids. They are honestly, like, this is a book we could read as adults. And go, man, that was so helpful.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:11]
A
And it'll make you feel good. If you read a book in a day, you go, I read a book today. But like, here's a scenario. On days when you feel you're not wanted and you need to change to fit in, remind yourself, I'm a child of God. And that's when the wonder begins. You were made to reflect God's own glory, designed as God meant you to be. You're one of a kind, his special creation. So live your life confidently. If. If people understood who they were made in the image of God, like, that's a stunning realization. So you know, James, the brother of Jesus, wrote in his epistle that how can you say with your mouth, I love God, and then curse people who are made in his image? What he's saying is, as a Christian, you understand every single person, every single person is made in God's image and they reflect God's image. Now somebody on Reddit looks at you and goes, you're not valuable to me, so I'm going to cut you down because I don't like the color of your hair. I don't like the decisions you made. I don't like the sound of your voice. I don't like your family. So I'm going to say cruel things about you. What they're doing is they're cursing a person who actually, in ways, reflects God, his own image.
- [38:27]
B
That's such a sad place to be. Honestly, when you think about it, it's like if you have. That's your purpose is to cut others down, then it's so tragic. And I think it's the same with a lot of things. Like even something that's not online, it's like gossip, slander, talking about people in. In ways that are not helpful. Like, I think that when we realize that we are made in the image of God, like you said, others are, that puts value on your life to show Christ's love to them and then also to value them in the same way that you wish that others would treat you.
- [39:04]
A
So that's a huge. So that's what we. I mean, here's a scenario. And look at this. This is a little bit of me and a little bit of felicity happening here because soccer scenario. But the felicity is she came home one day and people had been laughing at her. And so we wrote those times when you find yourself stumbling and someone's laughing at you, just pick Yourself up and try it again. Show them what courage can do. Remember that God isn't laughing. He's there by your side day and night. Say a quick prayer. Trust in the Lord that he will make everything right. You were made to be part of God's story. A beautiful note in a song. So let his light shine as you walk through the world and remember you always belong. And so here's the scenario. The scenario changes to now she got up, tried again, right? Little kid gives their best effort, gets up, has some courage, but then she's able to then, from a place of power, help someone else up who stumbled because she hasn't been crippled. This little child's not been crippled by people's perception of me.
- [40:00]
B
There's a confidence there.
- [40:01]
A
So there's a confidence. Hey, you know what? I'm gonna get up, try again. So then now she's able to help someone else who's in a place where she just was of feeling beat down and ginge. This is so. This little scenario. I love this scenario. When in the swimming pool, there's this little scenario of a boy, he's being made fun of. He's scared to go in the pool. And this is so you on a. On a large scale with your book Becoming free Indeed. And people pleaser. But it says when someone you know is standing alone in need of support and a voice, it can be scary to come alongside. But remember, you do have a choice. What would it feel like to walk in their shoes? And what would God want you to do then? Go find the strength to do what is right. Let his light shine brightly through you. And so coming alongside, equipping our children to see the world through a different lens than I better make sure nobody says anything mean about me. I've got to do everything I can to appease so that these random people or even people in your life at school or at work, make sure they approve of me. That is so crippling where you are feeding off of their perception and you're not in a place of strength to then go and support others because you just need all the help you can get yourself.
- [41:20]
B
Yeah, that's so true. I was thinking about that the other day as I was. I was driving through a little section of a neighborhood where the neighbors could be a little, you know, a little opinionated. And I was just thinking, oh, like as I'm passing, as I'm passing some of them, I'm thinking, oh, man, I. I do wonder what they think of us in this, you know, in this section of this neighborhood. And then I'm driving through it thinking that way and I'm like, that's kind of ridiculous because like, I don't even know these people. Like, I've only heard about this certain neighborhood and how they can be all, you know, like bothered about everything, right? And I'm driving through and I'm just thinking, that's so crazy of me. Like, think that way. I want to like be kind to others, but also I don't want to be crippled by what they think, right? And I don't even know them. I would care for them, but it's like for that to control, well, that's huge.
- [42:13]
A
Let's say you meet someone who's been openly critical of you. Then you're going to go, well, I'm going to give them a cold shoulder. So actually you're allowing their perception of you to keep you from loving them. The person made in customage and not.
- [42:26]
B
Even be able to have a relationship or reach out.
- [42:28]
A
And isn't it powerful when you see people overcome wrongs done toward them? Like on the news, somebody wrongs them and they're in court and the person says, I forgive you and I love you, I'm here for you. And you go, whoa, that's so powerful. It's because that person's operating not from a sense of needing anything from that person. Whether it's revenge or anything, or approval. They're going, I am self satisfied. I am completed in who I am in Christ. So now I can give you what you need. Love, affection, care, whatever it is, I'm in a place. And that's what we write at the end of this book. When you're filled with God's love for others because you have Christ in your heart. You're living the life he made you to live, helping others and doing your part. Be God's hands and feet to help others. Let them know they matter too. That's how you can honor our God who is good. His light and love shining through you. So love and trust our Savior Jesus. Only through him can come forgiveness and peace. God's grace and favor can be yours. Unending love that will never cease. And we finish with, you're all made as part of God's story. Beautiful notes in his song. So let his light shine as you walk through the world and remember we always belong. And we have a little note at the end that, that we write to the kids. But you know, I'm so encouraged by this because even as we struggle with this as adults, this is something that begins very young. This. This need for other people to approve and being set free from it is really incredible. Like, being set free from it is so. Yeah, it's freeing. It's.
- [44:09]
B
And I think that it's interesting because it does start as kids. And I really wish that I would have really thought that way even through my teenage years when I was older. I feel like I'm finally now at a place where I'm starting to realize, like, wow, that was a really sad way to live. Just constantly consumed by everyone's opinions.
- [44:33]
A
And that leads you to crazy places.
- [44:34]
B
Yeah. And it's not how God designed us to function. And I think that fear kept me from having genuine friendships and relationships and from trying new things because that's something I still can struggle with. And I can be feeling like. Like so insecure over things that I shouldn't. I should just give it a try. Like you said, if you fall down, get up, laugh at yourself, keep going. I used to be just crippled in fear of that. So I think that hopefully this book will be super helpful to shape your kids perspectives of how God created them and how they can also share that love of Christ with others and other people can find freedom as well.
- [45:17]
A
Guys, get your copy. You can click the link in the bio or wherever you get books. It's out now. We hope it is a blessing to you and your kids and your families. It was fun writing this one and it's been fun reading it with our daughters. They've really been enjoying this with Finn too, but he doesn't know English yet, so it's not as beneficial for him. Guys, thanks for hanging out. We appreciate you guys tuning in and we will see you next week.