The Joe Budden Podcast | Episode 859 | "The Mikan Drills" (feat. Chance the Rapper)

Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Joe Budden
Guests: Chance the Rapper, Imani the Singer
Duration: ~4 hours
Format: Free-flowing roundtable, heavy on culture, hip hop, sports, and personal insight

Episode Overview

Episode 859 dives into hip hop discourse, cultural commentary, and sports banter, anchored by Joe Budden and the podcast crew. The show features a detailed, candid interview with Chance the Rapper following the release of his album "Starline." The episode also touches on the viral Young Thug/Big Bank interview, the ongoing Gunna/YSL saga, Dame Dash's recent comments, Carmelo Anthony's Hall of Fame induction, and the VMAs. The podcast delivers its signature irreverence, humor, depth, and accountability, with Chance’s interview serving as the highlight for its heart and substance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Barbershop & Authenticity Banter

[00:28–08:58]

• Casual, relatable talk on the barbershop experience, missed barber appointments, and the lengths grown men go for self-care and comfort.
• Joe recounts buying a barber chair from an Instagram ad and being scammed—a classic tale of dubious "influencer" commerce.
• Jokes about private barber appointments vs. hanging with "the people" at the shop:
  • “Everything I do is to avoid conversations with people. People.” — Joe [04:54]
• Freshness, masculinity, and the absurdity of male rituals discussed lightheartedly.

2. Culture, Street Codes & the Young Thug/Big Bank Interview

[32:32–96:00]

• The crew breaks down the much-anticipated Young Thug prison interview with Big Bank:
  • All around, they praise Big Bank as an interviewer who "set the perfect therapeutic tone" and opened up space for empathy, vulnerability, and understanding (esp. for Thug’s upbringing and trauma).
  • “This wasn’t just an interview. It was therapy—one of my favorite pieces of content since the Cat Williams thing.” — Joe [33:54, 34:07]
• Discussion of the emotional and psychological impact of betrayal, street logic, loyalty, sacrifice, and personal growth:
  • Solidarity vs. self-preservation, especially the Thug/Gunna divide.
  • Nuanced takes on men’s vulnerability, how “being a man” is defined differently by each person, and the burdens of authenticity, pride, and pain.
  • Questions of street “accountability” and whether one can really “change the game” or step away from street life—Joe pushes back on fatalism.
• Intense, sometimes heated debate about how personal choices in crisis (jail, betrayals) define a person, with the group disagreeing and then finding common ground.
• Notable Quotes:
  • “Carrying the type of resentment that he’s carrying is heavy. It’s wearing on him—and only him.” — Joe [59:37]
  • “You gotta stand on it. My nigga, if you play football all your life, guess what’s a possibility? Concussions.” — Crew [56:34]
  • “Sometimes the person you help the most is the one that ends up doing you the dirtiest.” [61:24]

3. Sports & Hall of Fame—Carmelo Anthony, Statues, and ‘Legacy’

[103:02–115:02]

• Mark brings up the Basketball Hall of Fame’s latest inductees, giving flowers to Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Sue Bird, and Maya Moore.
• The Melo debate: does Carmelo deserve a statue at Madison Square Garden?
  • The crew is divided, referencing Knicks history (Ewing, Willis Reed, Frazier, etc.), the nature of “legend” status, and what a statue symbolizes.
• Conversation about the complicated nature of legacy in sports and culture, and how communities “claim” or disown their heroes.

4. Industry Critique: Dame Dash, Talent vs. Ownership, and the Business of Hip Hop

[136:06–149:01]

• Reaction to Dame Dash’s comments about former Roc-A-Fella artists turning to podcasting and becoming "chatty." Joe clarifies his own relationship with Roc-A-Fella and his path to independence.
• Explores the tension between being “talent” versus “ownership” in the industry.
  • Crew critiques the loaded use of “just talent” as an insult in entrepreneurial culture.
  • “Not being an owner of something does not make you less of a man. And discrediting someone's hard work because of that? Horrible message.” — Ish [145:26]

5. Meek Mill, Tech Investments, and Independence

[155:47–161:16]

• Meek Mill’s complaints about label deals and desire for $5 million to fund his next album/book/film prompts a nuanced conversation:
  • On tech vs. music investments—risk, scale, expectations.
  • On artists seeking true independence, risking their own money, and building on their own value.
  • “Sometimes you need to be forced into your independence.” — Joe [158:54]

6. Chance the Rapper Interview – Heart, Clarity, and Artistic Growth

[164:31–255:38]

a. Life Transitions, Mental Health & Artistic Vulnerability

• Chance discusses the toll of making “Starline” over six years, including stress, weight loss, and reflecting on his divorce and growth.
• Breaks down deeply personal lines from the album, clarifying their meaning:
  • “When I'm alone, I think I could just die” isn’t suicidal—it's about grieving a former life or self. [168:26+]

b. The “Big Day” Backlash and Internet Narratives

• Open discussion of the fallout from 2019’s "The Big Day," internet trolls, and how online repetition/perception shaped his reputation more than criticism from listeners.
  • “I felt like a concerted effort to devalue my name as a voice in the industry... but I persevered.” — Chance [171:13]
• Chance refuses to disown the album: “It’s documentation of my life.”

c. “Starline” Album Craft & Literary Depth

• Chance breaks down motifs, references, and interwoven themes throughout the album: African-American history, church critique, intersectionality, black joy & trauma.
• Passionate about the intentionality in his lyrics, the pressure to deliver substance:
  • Inspiration: James Cone’s “The Cross and the Lynching Tree.”
  • Calls for more “experiential” listening, deep engagement, and liner notes or classes to explain the layers.

d. On Rapping, Craft, and Competition

• Boldly declares this is his best rapping—“I’m better than everybody at rapping.”
• Highlights the importance of breaking out of the “comeback” or controversy-driven narrative—just let the music speak.
• Names his favorite 2025 rappers and writers: Malice, JID, Earl Sweatshirt, Griselda, Freddie Gibbs.

e. On Independence

• Lays out—not for the first time—exactly how he’s independent, Apple Music deal included, and why that changed the industry.
• Joe, after initial push-back, is convinced by Chance’s clarity and logic.

f. Responsibility, Politics & Hip Hop’s Influence

• Reflects on the tension between artists' social responsibility, the mischaracterization of hip hop, and the exploitation of culture in political arenas.
• “I just want artists to speak truth, not tell me who to vote for.” — Mark [208:31]

g. Personal Networks & Industry Relationships

• Chance shouts out key mentors—Dave Chappelle, Lauryn Hill, Jill Scott, India.Arie—who have supported him and his artistry.
• Stresses the value of empathy, community, and “not shitting on your brother.”

h. Looking Forward

• Discusses plans for a tour (intimate 3,000-person venues), ongoing learning, possibly teaching a class on lyricism or literature, wanting to stretch into acting and other ventures.
• “Starline” is positioned as a triumph and a return to full creative expression, focused on substance, honesty, and independence.

i. Notable Quotes

• “Print out my raps. Print out everybody’s raps and read them.” — Chance [185:12]
• “I like happy music, but you don’t need to be heartbroken or on drugs to make great art. We’re just people.” — Chance [182:52]
• _"When celebrities go through some shit, it's presented to you in a way where you have to be choosing one of these two polarizing sides... the people in the story feel the brunt." — Chance [231:44]
• “I’m rapping—not just better than Chance 3 raps, not just better than Acid Raps. I’m rapping.” — Chance [184:06]

7. VMAs & The State of Music Awards

[131:55–133:43, 221:04–224:41]

• Quick, humorous rundown of this year's MTV VMAs—Mariah Carey's Vanguard award, Doja Cat's “hip hop as hell” performance, pop stars taking center stage, the awards’ waning relevance to hip hop.
• Mariah’s win prompts nostalgia for the days when “award show performances mattered” to culture.

8. Randoms, Running Gags, and Closing Segments

[257:03–266:18]

• The episode wraps with group jokes about strip clubs, football season, relationship pains during NFL Sundays, and friendly roasting.
• Classic Joe: “Life is a series of moments, and moments pass. So let's make this one last as if it's all we have.”
• The "gay people work for me" running joke, pulled from the earlier Thug interview, surfaces frequently—as a signal of what sticks in internet culture, and as a meta-commentary on out-of-context bites.

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Thug/Big Bank Interview Deep Dive: [32:32–96:00]
• Carmelo Anthony & Statues Debate: [103:02–115:02]
• Dame Dash, Ownership vs. Talent: [136:06–149:01]
• Meek Mill/Investment Talk: [155:47–161:16]
• Chance the Rapper Interview Start: [164:31]
• Chance on Mental Health & The Big Day: [168:11–173:31]
• Chance on “Starline” Motifs: [179:28–181:19]
• Chance, Industry Change & Independence: [213:44–218:06]
• Chance on Social Responsibility & Hip Hop: [204:23–208:31]
• Closing/Jokes/Rap up: [257:03–266:18]

Memorable Quotes (Speaker Attribution & Timestamps)

• “Everything I do is to avoid conversations with people. People.” — Joe [04:54]
• “Carrying the type of resentment that he’s carrying is heavy. It’s wearing on him—and only him.” — Joe [59:37]
• “This wasn’t just an interview. It was therapy—one of my favorite pieces of content since the Cat Williams thing.” — Joe [33:54, 34:07]
• “I just want artists to speak truth, not tell me who to vote for.” — Mark [208:31]
• “I like happy music. We all have different emotions and moods.” — Chance [183:36]
• “Print out my raps. Print out everybody’s raps and read them.” — Chance [185:12]
• “I’m independent, own my masters, and I changed the streaming business.” — Chance [216:16]
• “Not being an owner of something does not make you less of a man. That’s a horrible message to send.” — Ish [145:26]
• “Sometimes the person you help the most is the one that ends up doing you the dirtiest.” — Joe [61:24]

Episode Tone & Style

• Language: Unfiltered, conversational, brash but thoughtful; plenty of hip hop vernacular, inside-speak, and in-jokes.
• Energy: Engaging, rapid-fire, sometimes chaotic but always circling back to meaningful reflection.
• Vibe: Group therapy for hip hop heads; family cookout energy meets grad-student debate; equal parts depth and “what did he just say?”

Summary for the Uninitiated

If you missed the episode, expect a wild, dynamic ride where serious issues (art, street codes, masculinity, community) collide with comedy, sports, and inside hip hop industry wisdom. The Chance the Rapper interview is a masterclass in artist honesty, vulnerability, and independence—a must-listen for fans of lyricism and real industry talk. The group’s handling of the Young Thug interview and Hip Hop Hall of Fame questions show why Joe Budden and his friends still run the culture’s water cooler.

Check out:

• Chance the Rapper – Starline: Now streaming everywhere.
• Young Thug / Big Bank Interview: Required content for hip hop fans.
• Key gems: The value of independence, power of narrative, and importance of empathy, all delivered at high entertainment value.