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- [00:02]
A
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. So, Dave, you were telling me right before the show that you are now retiring because you got an impromptu phone call and bet hundreds of millions of dollars on oil prices going down. Congratulations.
- [00:26]
B
It was. It was a good bet. It just wasn't timed right.
- [00:29]
A
I thought you got it in on time. I thought you got it in like. Yeah, I thought you got it in like five minutes early.
- [00:36]
B
I did not.
- [00:37]
A
How is there not a massive investigation into that right away? Didn't someone make like $1.8 billion? Yeah, in like five minutes.
- [00:45]
B
Yeah, there's. There's a lot of those, like, trades like that that should be investigated. That kind of never are, bro.
- [00:52]
A
How about. What's his name? Ludnick. Yeah, how about that one?
- [00:56]
B
He's so he's.
- [00:57]
A
The tariffs 1.
- [00:58]
B
Working for the administration and also standing to gain huge if people can sue over the tariffs. Right.
- [01:06]
A
Well, explain the whole thing. Well, if. Do you know how to. Do you know the actual details of it?
- [01:11]
B
No, I don't really.
- [01:12]
A
He was telling everybody that, you know, don't sweat it. The tariffs are golden. We're getting them through. There's going to be no problems. Is that what it was? But in. Meanwhile, he was shorting the tariffs.
- [01:23]
B
Yes. Yeah. So he was personally shorting them.
- [01:25]
A
Let's find out, actually is. So we don't get suited. I bet he's a quite litigious gentleman.
- [01:29]
B
Yeah, he might be.
- [01:31]
A
See if we can find it. Is it while the people are on the files, visited the island and then they still work.
- [01:40]
B
It was unbelievable.
- [01:41]
A
Some people had to resign from some jobs.
- [01:43]
B
Well, especially just him because he. So the way there's something about a really confident liar, like where they just. Because I mean, that. That interview clip where he's like, let me tell you something. I met Jeffrey Epstein that one time. He had a massage table. He said they were sex massage tables. I went right back to my wife and I said, honey, we are never hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein again. And that is that, you know, is
- [02:04]
A
that really a quote?
- [02:05]
B
Oh, dude. I mean, it was.
- [02:06]
A
I've seen that.
- [02:07]
B
I don't know if it's verbatim, but that is the exact spirit.
- [02:09]
A
It's probably pretty verbatim. Oh, let's listen to it.
- [02:12]
B
Listen to it. I find it very, very close to exactly what he said.
- [02:15]
C
Okay, get this one again. What was this one?
- [02:18]
B
Lutnick interview about Epstein. And he just sounds, I mean, so, like, morally outraged.
- [02:24]
A
About the idea there's so many people that they exist in that world where you just pretend that you're a different person. You pretend you're one way. You pretend you think things differently.
- [02:35]
B
I've been up close with people like that. I said that was my takeaway from debating Chris Cuomo. Was like, I just could. It's a weird thing to see someone just lie like that.
- [02:43]
A
Here it is. Now, this is the one that says he's the greatest blackmailer ever.
- [02:50]
C
Which quote am I trying to find?
- [02:51]
A
Yeah, try to explain it to him. It was.
- [02:54]
B
Let me see, the keywords that would downplay his relationship with him.
- [02:59]
A
That.
- [02:59]
B
That might be it.
- [03:02]
C
There was something on the other thing,
- [03:03]
A
but I don't know what that. What does he do?
- [03:06]
B
He's. What's. He's a commerce Secretary. He was always, like, a money finance guy. I think he used to work for cnbc, if I'm correct.
- [03:15]
A
In this administration, this. Like, the wolves are taking over the hen house.
- [03:20]
B
Yeah. Yeah, they sure have.
- [03:23]
A
This is.
- [03:23]
B
This is what draining the swamp looks like.
- [03:25]
A
Under fire for Epstein ties. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick defends visiting his private island.
- [03:31]
B
Yeah, but this is. This isn't the clip. The clip was from.
- [03:34]
A
Oh, at the top it says. It says, Lutnick said in an interview last year he was never in the room with Epstein other than a 2005 visit to his apartment. Okay, so that's probably it. He said, you know, he met him once. Like, this guy sucks.
- [03:50]
B
He specifically says that he met him, that he saw he had a massage table in his living room. And he goes, hey, Jeffrey, what do you. You really like massages? And he claims that Jeffrey went, yeah, and the right kind of massages. And that's when he decided he would never talk to him again.
- [04:07]
A
Nobody likes the right kind of massages. Those are terrible. Imagine if those are legal, just hand job massages. There'd be no relationships. How many people are in terrible relationships just because they need sex? There's a lot of guys who'd be like, I'm just gonna hang out with the boys. Just get jerked off once on Wednesday, and I'm good. Howard Lindley downplays relationship with Epstein during Senate testimony, testimony, testimony. I don't know. Is this it?
- [04:34]
B
Now? This is from. This is from recently, so this is from this year.
- [04:37]
C
I did find an article that kind of. I don't even know what this website is, though.
- [04:41]
A
I don't know if this old firm did not, in fact, profit from the Supreme Court tariff ruling.
- [04:48]
C
It says that there was an article claiming it. And then that's why I was trying to dig through this.
- [04:51]
A
Oh, we better edit that out then.
- [04:54]
C
I mean that it was reported though, that they did, but I don't know that what this says.
- [05:01]
A
Says firm is run by his two sons. Elder Lutnick announced the sale the stake in the firm and other investors. Supreme Court on Friday invalidated many of Trump's tariffs. The president said okay. Castor did not consider the product, which has existed for years. Was humming trade on Wall Street's Trump first term tariff push, but decided against it after weighing the political sensitivities. According to a senior banker familiar with this matter. Cantor spokesman said the salesman erroneously believed the firm was likely to greenlight the business. Okay, I'm missing this. I'm. I'm not exactly sure what they're saying here.
- [05:38]
C
There's a.
- [05:39]
A
It's just the legality of tariffs are discussing that.
- [05:41]
C
An email that said that they're representing 10 million. That's right. I was trying to figure out tariff refund rights, accuracy of all this and whatnot.
- [05:49]
A
So what was the accusation? The accusation was that he had shorted tariffs while claiming that tariffs are going to work.
- [05:57]
B
Yeah. The accusation was that he stood to make a lot of money from tariffs being struck down.
- [06:03]
A
Punch put that into perplexity. Jamie. Find out if that's accurate and let it scour the Internet instead of us doing it. Gotta love AI.
- [06:11]
B
Yeah, it is something.
- [06:12]
A
I can't wait until it takes over government. It's gonna be awesome.
- [06:15]
B
It's. After a while you're like, I don't know if it could be much worse than what humans are doing with government. It's gonna be better.
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A
It's not gonna be greedy.
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B
Well, as long as it determines that human life is valuable. I feel like is really the humans.
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A
So let's be honest, you know, some homeless guy's taking a shit on your Jaguar. Is that guy really valuable?
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B
Yeah, but. But to AI we all might be homeless guys taking a shit.
- [06:37]
A
Did you see that? There was these San Francisco tech guys and they got trapped in their Waymo because a homeless guy started attacking the Waymo and yelling at them. Why are you paying robots? No. Yeah, you're a traitor. You're paying robots. You're paying the robots.
- [06:51]
B
The homeless guy was upset about this.
- [06:53]
A
The homeless guy was attacking the Waymo. The tech guys were in the Waymo. We were terrified for our life. We feared our safety. Because they're being attacked by a crazy person who's saying, you shouldn't be giving money to robots.
- [07:04]
B
That's an uncomfortable position to be I
- [07:06]
A
get all my information from the Tim Dillon Show. This episode is brought to you by Momentous Creatine's strength benefits are already backed by tons of research. But what's really interesting is where the research is headed. It's highlighting a lot of people miss out about creatine that its core function is cellular energy, meaning it impacts not only your muscles, but your brain too. Like all supplements, not all creatine is created equal. Momentous Creatine is backed by the Momentous standard, sourced from the highest quality German creatine with no fillers or additives. It's also independently NSF certified for sport guaranteeing purity and label accuracy. Momentous always does things the right way and not the easy way. You can try Momentous Creatine in their classic clean powder or check out their newest option, Creatine chewable tablets. Momentous Creatine Chews are the cleanest way to take creatine on the go. Available in lemon, lime, strawberry and mango. If you want to try it for yourself, shop Momentous creatine@live momentous.com rogan and and use the code rogan for up to 35% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by Better Help in honor of International Women's Day. Better Help is celebrating the women in our lives. Because for a lot of women there's this constant sense you're supposed to be on. Like you're always performing at 100%. But those expectations can be detrimental. Having the time and space to decompress is so important and therapy through Better Help can help give you that therapy. Therapy can alleviate some of the pressure that you face in your day to day life and help you realize it's okay if you're not perfect. Signing up for that first session can be intimidating. Luckily, Better Help does most of the work. Finding the right therapist for you. They have a wide network of fully licensed therapists who work following a strict code of conduct so you can have a safe space to just be you. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10 off@betterhelp.com by the way. But they did not.
- [09:24]
B
It's not the worst source. It's of information.
- [09:26]
A
It's the best source. Him and that dude. What's his name? James Lee. He's our other number one source of information. Conspiracy theorist.
- [09:34]
B
There you go, there you go.
- [09:35]
A
Another one. A waymo. A gal got in and there's a fucking homeless guy in the trunk because apparently the last person, when they left their Waymo, they opened the trunk to get their luggage out and they never closed it. So the homeless guy hopped into their fucking Waymo and closed himself. It was in the trunk. So she gets you orders a Waymo, she climbs in, there's a homeless guy in the trunk. And Waymo's like, that's unacceptable. Yeah. Okay. The main claim is that Cantor Fitzgerald, Howard Lutnick's former firm, now chaired by his son, stood to profit by buying tariff refund rights that only became of became valuable if Trump's tariffs were overturned, but the firm insisted ultimately did not execute those trades. What critics say happened investigators and reporter reporting, notably by Wired, described Cantor Fitzgerald exploring a business where it would buy the rights to future tariff refunds from importers for about 20 or 30 cents on the dollar. Internal material cited in those reports suggested Cantor had capacity to trade several hundred million dollars of these refund rights and had already fac facilitated at least one trade of around $10 million in rights under the IEEPA tariffs. The idea was that of courts later struck down the tariffs. The government would have to refund duties and Cantor or its clients would collect the full refund while the original importers only kept a small upfront payment. So why is it seen as a conflict? Is it true? So it just said that they executed on one, right? Didn't it say that? Scroll back up.
- [11:12]
C
That was based off that email.
- [11:13]
A
Yeah. Article. It says internal material cited in those reports suggested Cantor had capacity to trade and had already facilitated at least one trade of around $10 million in rights. It's only 10 million. Let it go, Dave.
- [11:28]
B
That is small potatoes. Yeah.
- [11:30]
A
These kind of guys. What Cantor and Lutnick side say Cantor Fitzgerald has publicly stated that while some salespeople explored. I like that in quotes. Brokering tariff refund rates in 2025, the firm never executed any transactions or taken any position on tariff refund claims, calling contrary reports false. Follow up recording has echoed that Cantor considered products tied to the Supreme Court tariff ruling but ultimately backed off in part because the political optics. Duh. Fuck you. That's a big duh around Lutnick's government job. Latest coverage is no public evidence that Cantor actually booked profits from this strategy, though the investigations in Congress are ongoing and focus on whether there was any attempted or potential profiteer. Are you more interested in the ethics conflicts of interest here or the nuts and bolts of how the secondary tariff refund market works financially? No. So it seems like we don't really
- [12:32]
B
have evidence well, it'll be interesting. I mean, if. Which is probably going to happen, but the Democrats take the House and the Senate in the midterm elections this year. I mean, they're gonna be. That'll just be. The next two years of politics will be investigations and some Democrat lady just over.
- [12:48]
A
She just took over the seat in Trump's neighborhood where Mar A Lago is. So Democrat lady just won.
- [12:55]
B
Yep. Yeah, well, they're gonna seize. Yeah, I mean, look, they. In his first term, they impeached him twice for absolute bullshit. So they'll go after him for anything. But I have a feeling now there's probably a lot more for them to investigate and work on stuff like this and the meme coin stuff and, you know, whatever business deal. You know, I don't. I don't have the details at the top of my mind, but I do know that they said at one point that Jared Kushner would not be involved in this administration at all because he does so much business over there. And it's just like. So they were like, oh, no, no, no, he won't. But now he totally is. It's. Him and Witkoff are, like, the lead negotiators in this, too. So just a lot of meat on the bone for Democrats to make big political theater out of for the next two years.
- [13:42]
A
Is there anywhere that's not corrupt? I mean, when we look at the insider trading in Congress, when you look at all these slimy deals that get made with NGOs, you look at every. It's like everything's dirty. There's not one part of government, like, right there, they nailed it.
- [14:00]
B
Yeah. Well, that is true.
- [14:01]
A
Like, maybe the post office, that's. I mean, post office is pretty fucking good, dude.
- [14:07]
B
Yeah. Compared to all the rest of it. Sure.
- [14:08]
A
You get a letter moved across the whole country for, like, what is it, like, 30 cents? How much is a stamp these days?
- [14:15]
B
That's true. I mean, I don't know if you include the cost on the back end, like, the taxes that pay for the whole thing. Maybe it's a little more expensive, but relatively speaking, yeah, you can get something.
- [14:26]
A
It's not a bad organization in terms of government organizations you never heard. Except going postal, that used to be a thing. Remember those days?
- [14:33]
B
Yes, I did.
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A
There was a while, like, where so many post officers went so crazy and started shooting people that they started calling it going postal, but it never. It just went away.
- [14:43]
B
Yeah. Young people, if you're listening to this and you don't know what we're talking about, in our day we didn't have school shootings. Okay. We had to do it the old fashioned way. You had to drive a postman crazy until he went around shooting people. And it happened several times to the point that that became a thing like Crazy Postal workers.
- [14:59]
A
There was a video game called Postal where you run around shooting people. It was in the. I want to say the 90s.
- [15:06]
B
Yeah, that would be about the time period.
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C
The first one came out in 97.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it was like highly criticized. They were like. Weren't they like cartoon looking characters? Can you see? If you pull up a video of Postal. It was like they like south park looking characters just blasted people. So it felt like less, if I remember correctly. Or maybe that's the box. I never played it. Maybe I played it. Oh, this is going postal. No, this looks way better than 1990.
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B
This was in the 90s for sure.
- [15:37]
A
Is this the new Postal?
- [15:39]
C
That might have been a newer version right there.
- [15:41]
A
Oh, Jesus. You just run around jacking people?
- [15:45]
C
Yeah.
- [15:46]
A
So it was like the first Grand Theft Auto, really?
- [15:48]
C
Kinda. I mean, Grand Theft Auto came out around then too, actually. It didn't look like this then though.
- [15:52]
A
But real weird though, right, that post office workers were just killing a bunch of people. That's what it looked like. Like that. Okay, this is. This is what it looked like. It didn't look like that other thing. It was like. It wasn't a first person thing. It was like you're seeing it from above and just running around killing everybody.
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C
I played a Postal though. That was the first person like that.
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A
Maybe they had more versions of it also.
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C
I don't want to show cuz they don't know what's. There'd be some bad stuff on there. Yeah, probably just nudity or anything.
- [16:22]
B
Dude, video games really are like crack.
- [16:25]
A
No problem.
- [16:26]
B
I loved your. You had a rant about that years ago about how like the problem is that they're so much fun and you're not accomplishing anything.
- [16:32]
A
Yep.
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B
So the last video game I got into was UFC 3 and I loved that game. I just loved it. And then like I think it was. I got married, my wife got pregnant and I was like, all right, I gotta get rid of this. I just can't. I'm always at it. So I was at the Dojo of Comedy. It was a club in New Jersey. Great club.
- [16:52]
A
They have a LA one too.
- [16:53]
B
Oh, do they?
- [16:54]
A
Okay. Sam Tripley.
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B
Oh yeah.
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A
Shout out to Sam.
- [16:56]
B
Yeah, so I was at the one in Jersey and they have in the green room they have UFC 3 and I was like, oh, that's the game that I got really into. So I was there for a weekend and I mean, I just. The whole time I was there just in the green room playing this video game. And I was like, it was like a feeling almost like a drug addict who's around their drug of choice where I was like, I need to be away from that. Like, I will play this until I kill myself. It's so much fun.
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A
It's a problem.
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B
Robbie Lawler fighting, you know, whoever, and just.
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A
And they keep getting better.
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B
Yeah, I know. Well, I didn't. I stopped at that. So I never even like learned how to play the new ones.
- [17:33]
A
But what number UFC game are they at now? 5. The graphics keep getting better. The movement keeps getting more natural.
- [17:43]
B
Yeah.
- [17:43]
A
And first person shooters, man. Oh, who was the good.
- [17:46]
B
No, was it Joe? Joe Lozan, I want to say was. That was the 155 guy. Really good grappler wasn't his thing. Like he was obsessed with video games. And then he went, I got to just do something else instead of this. So he just did jiu jitsu. But he just got like amazing at jiu jitsu. I swear, I think that was his story. I could be misremembering this, but I swear I heard him talk about this in an interview once and that there was just like, I just played video games all day, all night. And then eventually I was like, I got to do something productive with this. And so I just started doing Jiu jitsu instead.
- [18:15]
A
I wonder what he's up to these days. Days. He was a fun guy.
- [18:18]
B
He was a fun fighter to watch.
- [18:19]
A
Fun, fun dude, like in person too. Him and his brother used to beat the out of each other on the yard, like in the front yard. They would have like full on MMA fights, like full power. They just beat the piss out of each other in the front yard. I was like, boys, save it. Like, save I whaling on each other.
- [18:37]
B
That's crazy. That's a young man's game.
- [18:39]
A
They had like a bunch of guys hanging around. Looked like it was a picnic or something like that. They decided, let's spice this picnic up, you and me fight. And they would fight, like fight, fight.
- [18:48]
B
But all across this country there are boys fighting in their yard. And that was of the highest level of yard fighting. I mean, that was top 1%. Oh, that was two, like legit MMA professionals.
- [19:01]
A
Yeah, two legit MMA professionals are mad at each other because they're in the house with each other all the Time. Shut the fuck. You didn't fucking do that. You fucking. You were supposed to put that shit away.
- [19:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, that was.
- [19:13]
A
You ate my food. Yeah.
- [19:16]
B
They both ended up being real fun fighters to watch.
- [19:19]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah. Joe was awesome. He was a great fighter. Yeah. He had a lot of fights in the ufc, too.
- [19:24]
B
Yep.
- [19:25]
A
And I think it got to, you know, how many years was he in? I got it. I want to say he was at least in the UFC for like, around a decade.
- [19:36]
B
He was.
- [19:36]
A
Yeah.
- [19:37]
B
He had a pretty long career.
- [19:38]
A
Yeah.
- [19:38]
B
Because he was fighting. I mean, he fought. I don't know, I mean, he fought like the whole, like, I think when he started was like BJ Penn era of lightweight, and then he fought into like, Anthony Pettis was the champion. Yeah.
- [19:51]
A
Pull up Lozan's Wikipedia, find out when he retired.
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C
His first fight was September 23rd, 2006, and I think it's. His last fight was 2019.
- [20:01]
A
Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. 2019. Some of these guys just don't. They just don't want to stop. It's just too fun.
- [20:10]
B
It's a very hard job to keep going for a while.
- [20:15]
A
Maybe the hardest.
- [20:16]
B
Yeah.
- [20:17]
A
You know, like on your body.
- [20:18]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [20:19]
A
Other than football, there's a lot of those guys in the NFL. They only last a couple years.
- [20:23]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [20:24]
A
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- [21:02]
B
No, I mean, that's a real tough one. But there's nothing. Well, I guess, I guess like professional football, there's a similar aspect to where, like you're not just. I mean, look, you can go to the hospital from basketball, you know, you can get hurt and get a bad injury, but the NFL or the ufc, you kind of like, you know, every time you go into it, like there's a very reasonable chance you're leaving here on a stretcher to go to the hospital. But particularly with mma, it's the most unforgiving sport where like you. Your one mistake, one mistake away from like, you know, like if LeBron James misses a Wide open layup. He runs back on defense and tries to, you know, get a block or something on the next play. But in mma, you could be dominating, fighting a perfect fight. Make one mistake and it's like, okay, you're unconscious now, maybe.
- [21:51]
A
Forwards, Kamaru Usman, perfect example.
- [21:53]
B
Yep.
- [21:54]
A
Kamaru's way ahead in the fight. It's in the fifth round. I think there's like 20 seconds to go or something crazy. And Leon just plants one. A perfect head kick.
- [22:04]
B
Yeah.
- [22:04]
A
And it was the per. And John Anik makes the perfect call. You know, like something had been said about him maybe deciding, you know, to quit. And then John Attic says, but that is not the cloth from which he was cut.
- [22:16]
B
Yeah.
- [22:17]
A
Boom. Head kick knockout. It's like, come on, man, is this real?
- [22:20]
B
One of the most amazing MMA championship knockouts ever.
- [22:23]
A
Oh, ever, ever. And then just his. His post fight speech. Look at me now, look at me now.
- [22:31]
B
And then comes back and wins the rubber match.
- [22:33]
A
Yeah.
- [22:34]
B
Which was like, it's an interesting thing how much, you know, like, well, first off, like, getting knocked out cold like that and you know better than me, but, like, that does a number to your body. Like, that's not.
- [22:44]
A
You're not psychologically.
- [22:46]
B
Well, psychologically and also, I think physically and then also just like the confidence that that gave Leon Edwards going into the next fight, like, just changes everything now.
- [22:56]
A
Yeah. Kamaru had to be very careful because he knew at any. I mean, he dodged most of the big ones until the big one landed. Yep. So in his head in that fight, he had a narrative, and that narrative completely changed with one head kick. So going into the next fight, the narrative is now if you fuck up, you will be unconscious. You can't get knocked unconscious again. And he fought much more cautiously.
- [23:19]
B
Yeah. In the second fight, I remember seeing that with. I felt like you could watch that when Dustin Poirier fought Conor McGregor the second time. Like, you know, McGregor had knocked him out years earlier. And you could kind of see, you know, like, you could see Dustin. I'm not saying, like, he was nervous or anything. He's like one of the greatest fighters ever. But you could kind of just see, like, he gets in there and he starts and he takes a couple shots from Conor and he's still there, you know, and then he lands a couple shots and you could see, like, in that first round, like, his confidence growing. Like, you almost got to get that out of your head, that it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy beat you there back then, but you're a different guy.
- [23:55]
A
Now, well, with Conor, it's all about weathering the initial storm. Yeah, the initial storm is crazy. He's so explosive, so fast, so accurate. And then another part about that second fight was Dustin setting up those calf kicks specifically because both of those guys fight southpaw. And when you both fight southpaw, if you're a southpaw like Dustin, a lot of times the calf kick's not really available. Like you have to. You have to throw it with a switch or it doesn't have the same sort of potential. It's a slightly different potential when you exchanging it in combinations. But with Connor, it was wide open because Conor has two things going on. One, he's a southpaw also. He had just gotten off Floyd Mayweather fight. He's very boxing heavy. Not just but a while back, but he had really concentrated on striking with his hands. His hands were elite. So because of that, your stance is a little wider and you're putting a little bit more weight on your legs. And he always had a wide stance anyway. He had that karate stance. The craziest thing about that is the calf kick really didn't become a big deal even until Conor was a superstar. It was after that. That's how recent it is.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah, it's very strange that that was almost like a thing that didn't get figured out until so recently and then just totally everything. Like at this point, you rare. Not saying you never see it, but you pretty rarely see guys kick guys in the thigh anymore. Well, no, but I mean, like, compared to what it used to be, where it used to be, like, that was. That was what a leg kick was for many years in mma. And now it's. I'd say like the majority of leg kicks are. Are targeting the calf. Yeah, like you'll see almost like a thigh kick almost just to switch it up a little bit. Because guys got really good at taking those.
- [25:38]
A
Yeah, he got really good at being conditioned. And you know, we also saw a few leg kicks breaks, right? We saw the Anderson Silva one, we saw the Chris Wideman one. There's been a few leg breaks from guys just full power leg kicking the. The thigh. And then someone just lifts up their knee a little bit and takes it on the right. Where the shin bone meets the kneecap is where they like to catch it. And boy, I've seen way too many of those. I've seen a bunch in person, but because of the Internet, I've seen dozens and dozens of small promotions where a guy throws that kick wrong really hard and the guy checks it and his fucking foot just wraps around the leg. You see it dangling there. You're like, oh, no.
- [26:19]
B
I've seen.
- [26:20]
A
Recognize the thing. Like, that injury is so recognizable. Like, I've seen it so many times now. I see it, I just go, oh, it's going to wrap around the calf. It's going to flop. He's going to fall down.
- [26:32]
B
I've seen it several times on Internet videos and in UFC fights. I've only once seen a guy continue to talk shit about the other guy after from the ground, which is the craziest shit ever. Dude. Everyone else I've seen is, like, crying.
- [26:45]
A
I know.
- [26:45]
B
In pain. And Connors talking about your wife. Whatever.
- [26:50]
A
Yeah. He asked me to come and sit down with him and do a podcast. He's an animal. I mean, it. Dudes are one of a kind.
- [26:58]
B
He's one of a kind.
- [26:59]
A
He apparently made a post on his Instagram saying he's back. And if it's true, that would be awesome. That would be the idea is his suspension for whatever he took before is up, so. Yay.
- [27:15]
B
What was it? Something was someone. I think it was Douglas Murray when he wrote that article about me.
- [27:20]
A
He said, Mr. Confidence returns to save. Fighting again. Call your grandma, nanny. We did it. Watch and pay me. F ck. You pay me, you fat Irish prick. You don't have my money. I put your brain to sleep. Who's that? What's that about? Who's he talking about? C is in the casinos after the Mac Loves yous All. I got love for Yas. It's an all. It's an honor. It's light work. It's easy for life and eternity. It's McGregor. How drunk was he when he wrote this? I do this fight game. Easy peasy. The sound of my shots off the head go Bing. In green dot laser form. Okay, well, I really hope he is actually back. I hope it's true. It'd be fun to see him. It'd be a lot of times.
- [28:13]
B
It'd be a lot of fun.
- [28:14]
A
Greatest personality the sport's ever known.
- [28:16]
B
That's right.
- [28:16]
A
There's no one even close. I mean, he's the most dynamic personality the sport's ever known, and he was,
- [28:23]
B
for a time there, just such an unbelievable fighter. I mean, he was like, just. It was incredible what he was doing.
- [28:30]
A
Danny Alvarez fight.
- [28:32]
B
Oh, yeah, I was there. I was there. Well, thanks to you. With really good. Really good seats. Thanks to you. But that was. That was one of the best. That might be the best fight. I've ever been to live. Because that whole card was just stacked. And that is the main event was just unbelievable.
- [28:45]
A
He was in the matrix. He was in the matrix. He was just in the zone. You know, Dana said it best. He's like, that kid eats pressure. He goes. He eats it.
- [28:55]
B
Yeah.
- [28:56]
A
Like, he thrives on pressure. Pressure that makes other people wilt. Yeah, he, like, shines under that pressure.
- [29:01]
B
And he had an amazing ability even very early in his career, which was, like, kind of. It was really unique, like. Because even, like, on his first fight ever, if you watch his first fight in the UFC against, like, Brimage, I think the guy's name is. And he was a relatively unknown at the time, but, dude, the place is going nuts. He already had made so much kind of, like, street cred for himself. And then the Irish thing, like, the Irish were really, really into it, but he. From the very first fight, he would always create these moments where it's like, dude, this is going to be the biggest spectacle that you, my opponent, has ever been in, in their career. Like, I'm going to get you mad with shit talk, and I'm going to get the fans so excited because he's completely comfortable there. Like, I'm not sure if you're really comfortable here, but. And so it would. And even with. With Aldo, who had been the entire division, he literally. When they started the division, they started him as champion, he didn't even win it. He came in because they absolved the wec. So he was. The entire featherweight division had just dominate everyone. And he even created such a moment that like. Like, Aldo was, like.
- [30:05]
A
He was the boogeyman.
- [30:06]
B
Yeah, dude, he was incredible. He's one of the greatest.
- [30:09]
A
One of the greatest featherweights of all time.
- [30:11]
B
But he got him to the point where he was, like, so furious that he was like, I'm gonna take this fucking guy's head off. And then Connor's just, like, relaxed. He's like. Like, he. He didn't care about any of the shit talking. He was just like, yeah, we're having fun, let's play.
- [30:23]
A
He lost his composure. Yeah. And he. He looked. He looked very overwhelmed by the moment. And. Oh, and by the way, he. Everyone from Ireland came to Vegas for that fight. It was the nuttiest thing I've ever seen in my fucking life. The entire Mandalay Bay was overcome with Irish people. I mean, overcome. Like, you couldn't move. There was nothing but Irish people everywhere. And they were singing. They were all singing together in the halls of this gigantic casino packed bump like they're waiting in line for something and they were just there partying for Conor.
- [31:00]
B
I remember. I think it was when. I want to say it was when.
- [31:02]
A
Look at all these people.
- [31:03]
B
Yeah, it was nuts, bro.
- [31:04]
A
This is nuts, man. They're all Irish people. Like, you got to realize nobody had a following like him. Like, this is actually Irish people. For the Floyd Mayweather fight, they were still ride or die with him even for that fight.
- [31:19]
B
I think it was when he fought Dennis Seaver, I want to say.
- [31:21]
A
I think that was in Boston.
- [31:23]
B
So I went to. I went with Louis Jake Omez, my good friend, hilarious comedian, and he. Me and him went to some Irish bar to watch. Like, we just happened to be in midtown Manhattan and we were like, oh, the fights are coming on. Oh, they're playing it at this bar. You know, it was just like an Irish pub. And dude, I mean, it wasn't even that big of a bar. They must. I mean, it was shoulder to shoulder, Irish people losing their fucking minds. Like, it was the. It was the most fun environment to watch a fight in. Cause they're just. I mean, they're just like. But all that singing and chanting, it seemed like everyone had an Irish flag with them. Like, it was. It was this. In a little bar, it was this.
- [32:01]
A
That's nuts, man. Look at that. That's Mandalay Bay. Wow, look at this. Oh, that's mgm. Well, they were everywhere. They were probably at every casino there was. This is crazy. Imagine, imagine if you. You're from Northern Ireland
- [32:25]
B
and you like, you still.
- [32:27]
A
Still remember the troubles. You make your way to the hotel, Just came to Vegas for a little gambling. You don't follow mma. You had no fucking idea. What's this all about? I have picked a wrong fucking week for me vacation.
- [32:44]
B
By the way, I was gonna say that Douglas Murray's big knock on me when he wrote his op ed in the New York Post was he goes, you know, Dave goes on Joe Rogan and he talks about foreign policy like he's an expert. But I bet he wouldn't go in there and talk MMA with him, cuz then Joe would recognize he's not an expert. And I was like, we do that all the time.
- [33:00]
A
We do that every time.
- [33:01]
B
We do that all the time.
- [33:02]
A
That's so stupid.
- [33:03]
B
I was like, almost every time we hang out, we end up talking mma. And like, it probably is fair that, yeah, there'll be moments where you'll correct me if I get something wrong.
- [33:12]
A
So what?
- [33:12]
B
But if I get it right, you don't go you're not an exper.
- [33:16]
A
Imagine we don't talk about MMA because you're not an expert.
- [33:19]
B
I don't know.
- [33:20]
A
Silly.
- [33:20]
B
Well, I watch a lot of it. I have some thoughts.
- [33:22]
A
Why is he so silly? I love Douglas. I really do. I've enjoyed talking to him. I think he's a brilliant man. But I was very disappointed with. You've never been. I'm very, very disappointed with that sort of strategy, that you shouldn't be talking about these things that are factual. But even more disappointed with that notion, the notion that, like, you would never talk about MMA with me. Like, you think we would. First. First of all, I don't think I argue about MMA with anybody. I don't think anybody. If someone has a point about mma, I don't. I never argue. I might say you've corrected me when
- [33:55]
B
I've gotten things wrong.
- [33:56]
A
Yeah. Or I might say I dis, like, somebody. Some people think that a certain thing is going to happen, and I'm like, ooh, I don't see that. I disagree. That happens.
- [34:06]
B
Sure.
- [34:06]
A
Yeah. But.
- [34:07]
B
Well, also, like, it's. Whatever point you're making is either a good point or it's not a good point if it's, like, an objective claim. You know what I mean? So, like, if I. If I say, like, you know, when. When Volkanovsky fought Lopez, his jab was crucial. Okay. That's either correct or it's incorrect. Like, whether I'm an expert or not, I'm not an expert on fighting.
- [34:28]
A
Jeez. You could watch the fight and that would be correct.
- [34:31]
B
Yes. Right. So.
- [34:31]
A
Well, he doesn't see it.
- [34:32]
B
Right.
- [34:32]
A
I saw he hit a home run. You're right.
- [34:34]
B
Yeah.
- [34:36]
A
It was crazy.
- [34:36]
B
Well, you know, it was a weird. A weird thing during that show was because it's a weird. I don't know, there's, like, weird incentives built into, like, all of this.
- [34:46]
A
Incentives are the right word because there's a lot of people that are saying things and you go, why are you saying that?
- [34:51]
B
Yeah. Well, also, from my perspective, I was a little disappointed with it. Cause I kind of thought I was like, oh, this could be, like, a really cool thing. And it had been literally, which I don't think I'm saying anything. That is, like, betraying confidence here. But the only thing that was ever said to me, I remember you called me and you were like, what do you think about doing this? And I think I said yes before you could. Could finish answering the question. Yes, absolutely, let's do that. And then you told me that he had said, hey, he really doesn't want this to devolve into like a food fight. He wants to make this like a good faith thing. And I was like, oh, awesome. And now I feel like he like Trump Witkoff negotiated me. Like he started. Cause then he came in and the whole thing was about me. He didn't wanna talk about the issues at all. He just want. And so in a weird way, I was like, well, this sucks, cuz I thought we could have had a really cool thing. But then there was this other part of me that was like, I mean, he's really just handing this to me, you know what I mean? Like, he kind of just like gave me the win in a thing that was a big show with like a. You know, a lot of people I knew were gonna watch it. I mean, obviously every time I do your show, a lot of people are gonna watch it. But that was a particularly big one.
- [35:57]
A
Yeah.
- [35:57]
B
And so I was kind of almost like for the first 45 minutes of it, I was kind of sitting there like, oh, I can't believe he just. He went this route.
- [36:05]
A
Well, if you look at it objectively, there weren't a lot of options. Right?
- [36:10]
B
Yeah.
- [36:11]
A
It's very difficult to argue the side that. What they're doing. Like we were talking about Gaza in particular.
- [36:17]
B
Yeah.
- [36:19]
A
Arguing that. That's not horrific. If you're a human being and you recognize that there are human beings that are subjected to that government, just like you're subjected to ice, you're subjected to homeland security, you're subjected to the cops. If you're a civilian, you have to listen to these orders. So if you're living in Gaza and you're a child or you're a woman and you live. You're not Hamas. Okay. And the idea that you're responsible for October 7th, even if you're one of the people that cheered in the street, boy, don't you think you kind of have to cheer in the street if everybody else is cheering the street? If you're fucking in terror for your life and you have to like keep your safety intact, like, you got to kind of go along with whatever everybody else is doing. I'm not saying it's. That's good, but when you look at how that place is leveled, I mean, the most recent videos that I've seen were still like a few months old. So I don't know if it stopped. Did they stop bombing? I don't know what's going on.
- [37:21]
B
No, they've slowed down a bit, but they haven't stopped.
- [37:23]
A
Okay? It. There was nothing left, man. And that represents people's homes, that represents schools, that represents hospitals. There's no way you can argue that that's not horrific. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. March is here and Uber Eats is delivering deals all month long. Each game day, score big savings on all the delicious food you need to turn your couch into center court and fuel your fandom. Whether you're ordering in or hosting the whole crew, Uber Eats is serving deals on wings, burgers, pizza from your favorite restaurant, plus game day snacks from top stores. Bracket Busted, still holding strong. Cinderella story or top seed? However the madness unfolds, these deals keep it going all month long. Visit the game day hub on Uber Eats for all the latest deals and start saving today. This episode is brought to you by ShipStation. When your company's growing fast, order fulfillment can make or break your success. Ship Station's intelligence driven platform bring order management, rate shopping, inventory and returns, warehouse systems and comprehensive analytics all in one place. Saving customers 15 hours per week on fulfillment, ShipStation compares rates across all major global carriers, including USPS, UPS and FedEx. Plus your own discounted rates if you have them define you. The best shipping option on every order, with discounts up to 90% off. There's a reason why over 1 million million businesses trust Ship Station. Try Ship station free for 60 days with full access to all features. No credit card needed. Go to shipstation.com and use the code JRE for 60 days free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's shipstation.com code jre. Well, he was stuck.
- [39:26]
B
That's right. That's right. It's kind of indefensible. And so instead you pivot to arguing against this guy rather than against the issue. Well, I think that, you know, it's in. I can't remember if this was in the letter to America or this was in his declaration of war against America, but Osama bin Laden literally said that civilians are fair targets because you guys have elections and you vote for these politicians and they're the ones who conduct these wars that. That slaughter innocent Muslims. So like saying it's the logic of Osama bin Laden to say that civilians are responsible for what? And in Gaza, like, they don't even really have a government. Hamas is not a government. They don't have regular elections. They had one election back in 05 or 06 or whatever it was, which Hamas did not even win majorities of they won on pluralities, you know what I mean? And so the idea that you're holding these people responsible for Hamas just doesn't make any sense. And just on a very basic human level, you just kind of go, and I'm not like an egalitarian. I'm not saying all people are equal or all cultures are equal or anything like that. But on a very basic human level, those are real people too. And when a mother is like pulling her six year old dead body out of the rubble, that's the same exact experience as if your wife was pulling your 6 year old out of there. Like that same thing is happening to her. And once you even just admit that. But it does just change the calculation. It changes the calculation to be like, okay, look, the onus is on you to demonstrate that this is absolutely necessary. Like, there is no other option than to do it this way. And that makes defending most wars very difficult. Not all of them, you know, but most wars are very difficult to defend if you just run it through that filter of like, is there any other option other than this? Have you exhausted everything else? And then of course, in the case with Israel and Palestine, you go, oh, you never even tried to just give them their independence. You've never tried to just let them out from this occupation and see if maybe that will improve things.
- [41:32]
A
And it is no crazy that the world didn't at one point in time stand up and say, there's a simple solution here. Like, these people should have a state. Like, why do you get to control them? But they're not Israeli. Like, they're, they're kind of a country, but not really because they're attached to you.
- [41:52]
B
Yeah, it's.
- [41:53]
A
Why don't you guys go buy another country, give it to them and let them have a country? Or yeah, they don't like being attached on the same small patch of dirt to people that have a totally different ideology, I guess.
- [42:05]
B
Well, that's right. And that, look, I mean, it's just.
- [42:08]
A
But we are. Yeah, we have Canadians right there.
- [42:11]
B
Yes, but Canadians. Canadians do get citizenship in their own country.
- [42:15]
A
You know, they get citizenship here too. Boy, that's the last thing I is looking for is Canadians. Like, oh, yeah, although your visa is expired and don't worry about it, buddy, get on the plane.
- [42:24]
B
They probably have a much easier time. Like, Canadians go, all right, guess I got to go.
- [42:28]
A
Well, yeah, also, they can just ditch the accent and pretend they're Americans and everybody will buy it. Yeah, about wrong. Yeah. You know, they could just say, aha. Sorry, I don't have my license on me.
- [42:40]
B
Yeah, that's true.
- [42:40]
A
Yeah, like, okay, buddy, where are you from? I live in Iowa. Okay, sounds right.
- [42:44]
B
That does check.
- [42:45]
A
Get out of here.
- [42:46]
B
All right, that does check out.
- [42:48]
A
You see the. That's going on in the airport? So are they using. They're using ice now at the airports, because first of all, how many ICE agents are there? Aren't they busy? How do you have time to put them in all the airports? How many fucking airports?
- [43:00]
B
It's in the low tens of thousands. There's not that many of them.
- [43:03]
A
Right, so, like, how many airports are there? There's a lot of airports. Okay, so you're putting ice in the airports. We get all these ICE guys. Are you hiring new ICE guys to take the airport jobs? Like, is this, like, it takes seven weeks to train them. So did they have, like a surplus, like a ice factory where they're churning them out and putting them out there?
- [43:22]
B
I heard. So I didn't see any of them. I flew out here the other day and I didn't see any of them. But then I did see people saying that they were at the airport. I flew out from later that day up to 150.
- [43:33]
A
That's not a lot. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers were deployed at airports across the United States on Monday. So I, of course, you know, you get on social media, somebody sends you something, and somebody sent me something. I'm not sure it was true, but it was like, look at the difference between the lines at the airport. Before ICE was there and after ICE was there. And tell me that only 10 million illegal aliens got in. Like, what is the real. We were talking about this last night. Like, what's the real number? What is the real number of illegals in the United States?
- [44:09]
B
We don't know.
- [44:09]
A
You were saying something about Ann Coulter.
- [44:11]
B
Yeah, well, she had. And this was from a while ago. So this was. Well, she had. She had in her book Adios America. She had. I believe it was from Bear Stearns. I could be wrong. Double check on that.
- [44:23]
A
Was one.
- [44:23]
B
One of the big finance companies that they had put a thing where like, they put it between like 30 and 50 million total in the country and 50s.
- [44:33]
A
Why?
- [44:34]
B
Yeah, and this is before Joe Biden and them now, I don't know, maybe. Maybe they got those numbers wrong.
- [44:38]
A
This is before Biden. So what year was this book?
- [44:40]
B
I want to say 2014, 2015.
- [44:43]
A
Oh, my God, that's 10 years ago.
- [44:45]
B
Yeah, a lot of them. A lot of them have come in since then.
- [44:48]
A
Well, at least 10 million they believe came in through the Biden administration. So over four years.
- [44:53]
B
Well, I remember the numbers being like during the Biden administration where they'd be like, it was something like last month there were 700,000 border apprehensions. And you're like, well geez, then how many were just flooded? And you'd see those big caravans coming in and stuff. I mean look, it's a huge, that still is a huge scandal. And as much as I have really been really criticizing Trump and the Trump administration since last summer, you know, he's done a good job in securing the border. That is the one thing that like you kind of gotta give him. And he got that secured like right away.
- [45:28]
A
Even. Even if you think that it should be open and those people should be able to travel freely, they should. There's no one's illegal on stolen land, that kind of shit. You know, much sex trafficking happened during that time of children. How many children were trafficked that way? You know, many children were dragged across the border and sold to psychopaths.
- [45:50]
B
Oh yeah. Oh, it's horrible. I mean I saw. Oh, there's an. With at least 15, at least 50
- [45:56]
A
million illegals in the country today. See my book Adios America for the analysis from Pulitzer Prize winning reporters and numbers crunchers from bear steers.
- [46:05]
B
I was right. It was bear steers.
- [46:06]
A
This is 2022, this post. Wow.
- [46:10]
B
The book is like the book is from before. I want to say 2015, but it's around then is crazy.
- [46:18]
A
That's crazy.
- [46:19]
B
Supposedly this is the book that got Donald Trump on the immigration issue. At least I've heard, I've heard Ann Coulter say that before. Maybe that's right. Maybe that's not right. But, but yeah, I mean look, it's like, it's also a particularly, it's a, a, it's a profound like act of treachery. For a government to do that to its own country, like to allow that and really facilitate that to happen against the will of the domestic population. Like if you were to. I've tried to look this up before. I was trying to figure this out. Cause I did a big immigration debate last year or maybe the year before and I was trying. You can't even get numbers on what the polling on open borders is. Cuz no one even asked the question in polling because it's like they asked like, do you think immigration policy should be less restrictive or more restrictive? Because the number of people who support open border, it's like maybe 1% of the country supports that. It's as unified an issue as anyone could have. No, you can't just have the border wide open. And so to do that to the American people against the, like, you drastically change the country in a way that is not really, it's not easy to just undo. I mean, as we've seen, right, Donald Trump backed off a mass deportations almost immediately because big business doesn't want it. And then because, look like the level of violence that you'd need to just physically deport 50 million people is going to be something that the American people just aren't going to put up with. I mean, you even see in Minnesota, and rightfully so. I completely understand it. But you see, like, you know, I saw one thing. I saw that Trump had asked the ICE agents who were going to the airports to not wear their masks. And I was like, is that even, that's even an option? Why would they be masked in the airport?
- [48:07]
A
Because they're ICE agents? Because they get doxxed.
- [48:09]
B
Well, that's their concern. And look, I understand that.
- [48:11]
A
That's a real concern.
- [48:12]
B
I understand that concern.
- [48:13]
A
Organized.
- [48:13]
B
But at the same time, you know, there is a balancing act there. And you know, a lot of people, like a lot of right wingers will say, hey, look, if you're, you know, if you came here illegally, then that's a crime. You're here illegally. That's the law. And hey, I get that argument. But also the supreme law of the land is the Constitution of the United States of America. And I've seen a ton of videos where there were masked ICE agents not even identifying themselves, going up to people telling them that you have to answer my questions, you don't have an option to walk away, which is like, not true at all.
- [48:43]
A
That's my take on it, is that you can't accept people that are masked, that don't have any paperwork, that don't have a warrant on the streets in militarized situations. Because if they're using it for this, which you agree to, that opens up the door for them to use it because you won't take your vaccine or because you did this or did that or whatever the fuck it is, if a different person gets in power, maybe they're going to use it for something you don't support. It's just not something you're supposed to accept.
- [49:12]
B
That's right.
- [49:12]
A
You don't want to accept that. President, someone told me that is, this is a very credible source, that I can't reveal what the source is, but they told me that there are People in this country, and not just a few, but many. Many that are affiliated with terrorist organizations, directly affiliated, but they've applied for asylum. And because they've applied for asylum, you can't deport them until they go through the entire process.
- [49:41]
B
That is wild.
- [49:42]
A
That is wild. So there's people that are known, at least terrorist sympathizers, they're in direct communication with terrorist networks, they've done things with terrorist networks and they've applied for asylum. So you have to go through this long ass process through the legal system and it's up to a judge whether or not this person who may or may not be a part of a fucking sleeper cell gets to stay in America.
- [50:11]
B
Yeah.
- [50:11]
A
Suicidal empathy, that's what GAD Saad calls it. You know, I think he's right.
- [50:16]
B
I think he's got a fair point there with suicidal empathy in terms of the idea of like that we, that we cannot say on some level that it's like, no, look, we have a desire to preserve our society and we wanna do what's bad and we don't have to, out of some feeling of guilt, turn our country into something worse than what it otherwise would be. So I think he's got a point there. I think. And look, I'm not a big fan of gad. He literally just him and like Sam Harris and a few others, they literally just trash me all the time and refuse to engage on a single thing I've said. So, like, it'll just be, yeah, he
- [50:52]
A
doesn't engage with you.
- [50:53]
B
He calls me Wikipedia Dave on Twitter
- [50:57]
A
and it's a. I like the guy. Look, I have a different relationship with him than you do.
- [51:01]
B
Well, that's true. And I'm a big critic of Israel and he's a Mossad agent. So there is that. That is part of you think he is. He's admitted that he worked for Mossad in the past. Yes. Yeah, I guess he would say he's not currently. He retired.
- [51:12]
A
Like I used to, I used to work for Newport Creamery. I don't represent them anymore.
- [51:16]
B
I think it's a little bit different with the Mossad thing, but I also think that. But the big component that I think all of those guys are missing is that we also create more enemies with our foreign policy. And that's not to say that they always kind of caricature my position on this. I'm not saying Islam is all peaceful and there are no problems in the Islamic world or anything like that. In fact, I don't think any religion has truly Always been peaceful. But, you know, for guys like, say, like, Sam Harris, who. These kind of like pretend intellectuals who have spent. He spent his entire career talking about how violent and irrational the Muslims are and how you can't even draw a cartoon of Muhammad or Muslims will want to do violent stuff. And like, hey, fair enough, that's bullshit. And we should all say, like, if you want to be over here in the west, our values are free speech and you cannot kill people for cartoons. But then, like, none of them ever also go, hey, you know, murdering an Ayatollah might be dangerous during Ramadan. Yeah, like, that is. You know, that is not just a political figure to Shiite Muslims. That is a. So at the same time, it's like, okay, I'm fine with saying, okay, you don't want to have suicidal empathy. My. My buddy Keith Knight, who's brilliant, works over at the Libertarian Institute, he had. I forget what he said, but he said something like, okay, I don't wanna have suicidal empathy. Let's also not have homicidal empathy. You know? And so, like, maybe it also is, like, as we were tying into that whole conversation with. Now I'm okay, thanks. With the whole thing about the kids and women in Gaza. It's like. It's also the fact that if you just view slaughtering Muslim children in the Middle east and in Northern Africa as, like, just an acceptable political price, you know, that's just collateral damage. And unfortunately, that happens when we pursue this policy. You're going to deal with more and more of that. And the combination of both, Joe, like, the combination of having open borders, having all these people get in and continuing the war on terrorism, and slaughtering people in these numbers must be the most insane combination ever. The idea that you'd be like, we're gonna. You know, we're gonna just make an entire generation of Muslims hate us because so many of them have seen what we've done to their countries. And also, we'll welcome all of them in with no checks, and we can't get rid of them when they come here. Yeah, that is quite a combination.
- [53:52]
A
Yeah, it's. It's all nuts. It's the Sam Harris thing. I should clarify this because he's apparently talked about me again recently on Bill Maher. We didn't not talk because it was his idea. It was me. I. He wanted to do a podcast with me. He wanted to do a co. Like a Covid, you know, wrap up, like, to, you know, go over everything that happened, all the mistakes that were made, and his Position, My position. Because that's where we kind of like separated. He was very pro vaccine. I said, and I won't do that until you talk to Brett Weinstein, that you need to talk to Brett. Like, Brett, you disparaged him publicly. I think you said things that weren't correct. You called him a conspiracy theorist and you said you wouldn't platform him because it's dangerous. I don't believe that's true. I believe the problem is that Sam was incorrect about both the effectiveness and the safety of the COVID vaccines. Brett was correct. And Brett didn't insult Sam. Sam insulted Brett. I mean, Brett said things about Sam since. But it was, it was Sam. And I said, look, you got to talk to him first. You can't just talk to me, you know, especially because he's an actual evolutionary biologist. Like he, he understands these things. He knows what he's talking about. He's had multiple conversations with high level vaccinologists and all these different people that worked on the mri, RNA vaccines. Like, he was correct. We all know that now. We know that all the things that he was talking about, whether it's masking doesn't work, social distancing, the lockdowns. Lockdowns work at all. All the above. All the above. He didn't want to talk to Brett. And I said, that doesn't make sense to me. Like, you talk to everybody. You have debates with Muslims on stage.
- [55:47]
B
That's right.
- [55:48]
A
That doesn't make any sense. Like, why wouldn't you talk to Brett? I don't think he wanted to talk to Brett because I don't. I think he didn't want to talk to Brett because Brett's right.
- [55:56]
B
Yeah, I think it's.
- [55:57]
A
And I think it's indefensible.
- [55:58]
B
No, I completely agree. I mean, you know, I had a.
- [56:01]
A
By the way, I don't hate Sam. You know, he could say all the crazy shit he wants. He also said, like, I don't think he should interview Gaddafi. Guess what? I would if Gaddafi was alive, 100%, I would interview Gaddafi. Gaddafi. Do you ever hear Russell Crowe talk about Gaddafi?
- [56:15]
B
I don't think so.
- [56:16]
A
He did a clip that went viral that was on this show where he talked about why they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi.
- [56:22]
B
Right.
- [56:22]
A
And like. Well, they talked about how evil Gaddafi was and how he subjugated his people. Can you see if you can find that? Russell Crowe on Gaddafi. He wanted to create a United States of Africa.
- [56:36]
B
Yeah.
- [56:37]
A
He wanted to get him on the gold standard. He wanted to get him off The US dollar. He had some very dangerous ideas.
- [56:43]
B
Now, he also supported Palestinian resistance.
- [56:46]
A
Yeah, that was it. There's no sound thing in there. Oh, there it is. Here it is. We are taught, for example, to regard Gaddafi in a certain way.
- [57:02]
B
Okay.
- [57:02]
A
But if you look into what happened in his country while he was the leader, you look into the fact that every person is given a house at a certain age. You look at the fact that everybody's education and health care is free. You look at if somebody showed a particular talent for something that required further education overseas. All of the costs of that were paid for by the government. Now, these are all things put in place by the same country's leader that we're told is evil and corrupt.
- [57:38]
B
Yeah.
- [57:39]
A
So it doesn't quite balance. Well, there's also U.S. government interference. That's a, that's a. That is one that we definitely monkeyed with. I mean, he ran afoul of the United States government.
- [57:54]
B
We were taught.
- [57:55]
A
For example, there was the famous clip with Hillary. I showed a friend of mine the other day that he hadn't seen it and he couldn't believe it was real. Well, she was on this show and she gets unconfirmed information first that they got Gaddafi and then she gets confirmed that he's dead. And she goes, we came, we saw he died.
- [58:15]
B
She was so excited about it, but laughing.
- [58:18]
A
And then that led to it. Libya, at least for a while, becoming a failed state.
- [58:23]
B
Oh, it still is. It still is. This whole time, man, it's been a disaster.
- [58:27]
A
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- [59:25]
B
And there's. And you know, the thing is that they called that Hillary's war. She really, she was the Secretary of State at the time under Barack Obama, but she's really the one who championed that. And I believe Obama wrote in his book that he was 50, 50, and that Hillary really pushed him to that. And he said his big regret was that he didn't think about what came next after Gaddafi, because I wonder why somehow we haven't learned that lesson yet. Like, after Iraq, you'd never thought of that.
- [59:49]
A
Listen, but thank God Trump's figured it out.
- [59:51]
B
Oh, yeah, that's the. Yeah, Trump's figured it out. We'll go in this drastic new direction of getting the seventh war that. They want me a pussy, Dave.
- [59:59]
A
Jesus Christ. Did you see that one? I don't know what military expert was on television who said something about, we need. I'm a fan of boots on the ground. Like Rome. Like, hey, fucker, Rome didn't have nuclear weapons and drones. Rome didn't have drones that hunt you. Yeah, we talking about boots on the ground. Should we fight with swords? Should we get everybody to fight with swords? Is that what you're saying? Fuck are you saying?
- [60:22]
B
Well, also, like, what. What even is the plan with boots on the ground? Like, what are you talking about here? You're gonna. You're gonna take an island. It goes, okay, well, then you're gonna be a target. You're gonna be target practice as long as the Iranian regime is still standing. And if you're talking about militarily occupying the country like we did with Iraq or Afghanistan or something like that, this is a huge country with 92 million people. How many soldiers do you think you need to occupy that country? At least half a million. And probably you can't do it with that. So what are you talking about here? And so you're saying, are we gonna start a draft for the least popular war going in in American history? Cause I don't think that's happening.
- [61:01]
A
Yeah, this is maybe slightly more popular
- [61:05]
B
than Vietnam going in. It's less. I'm sure Vietnam, by the end, was very, very unpopular.
- [61:13]
A
Vietnam going in didn't make any sense, did it? There's, I guess the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Most people in America were like, why are we doing this? What's going on? You're drafting people to go to Vietnam. We're fighting communism in Vietnam.
- [61:27]
B
Yeah.
- [61:28]
A
What.
- [61:28]
B
Well, they called. They called it Vietnam syndrome that the American people had, which is that we didn't want to fight a war again after that. Was that. That's. From their perspective, that's a syndrome. And there's. It's really something they think. They think. By the way, Ben Shapiro Used this same line called. He said Trump finally broke Iraq war syndrome because they think, see, from Ben Shapiro's perspective, the illness is after you lie the American people into a war and slaughter a million people. The illness isn't that. That you might look at that as the bad part, but the bad part is that these annoying Americans have this tendency to not want to do that again after that. But he claims Trump has broken Iraq war syndrome. Of course, there's really no evidence with support of the American people that has changed at all. And George H.W. bush was said to have defeated Vietnam war syndrome in Panama and in Iraq because they were relatively easy, you know, bloodless on the American side, or very, very limited, you know, injuries and deaths. And, you know, they weren't like quagmires that went on forever, whatever. But of course, after the Persian Gulf War in 92, we went on to be bombing Iraq for ever since, essentially, you know, I mean, for 30 straight years after that, well, we were still at war with that country for a
- [62:59]
A
million people being dead. What is public support? Let's put that into our sponsor, perplexity. What is current public support for the Iran war in America? And first of all, how will they know? No one's asked me. You know what I'm saying?
- [63:15]
B
That's a fair.
- [63:15]
A
That's what I would say about, about polls. Was the last time you answered a poll? When's the last time anybody called you up and said, dave, Matt, first of all, was the last time you ever picked up the phone if you didn't know who was calling? And then when you do answer, when was the last time you said yes to a poll?
- [63:28]
B
I don't. I don't even remember ever getting calls.
- [63:30]
A
It has to be the dumbest of dumb people that answer those polls. So then you got to realize out of those stupid fucking idiots, even how many of them think the war is a good idea.
- [63:42]
B
It's even unpopular amongst them.
- [63:45]
A
I mean, what does it say here? Most recent national polls show Americans overall oppose the current war with Iran and think US Military action has gone too far. A Quinnipack poll finds 54%. What is Quinnipack? Quinnipiac poll finds 54 of US voters oppose US military action against Iran and 39 support it. I wonder how many of those 39% are Jewish and.
- [64:13]
B
Well, not too much. We don't have the numbers.
- [64:15]
A
A poll reports about six and. Right. What is the number of Jewish people in America?
- [64:19]
B
2%, something like that.
- [64:22]
A
6 in 10 adults say U. S. Military action against Iran has Gone too far. Only about a quarter. Say it's been about right. 25, poofa. First of all, you know, whenever you're talking about these kind of things, it's like, who again, who. Who are we talking about? Who. Who was asked, finds Republicans largely support the military action. Around 86% support. Whoa.
- [64:48]
B
Yeah.
- [64:48]
A
Really? Because I talked to a lot of Republicans who think it's a terrible idea, while large majorities of Democrats, around 92%, and independents, about 64 oppose it. 92. Who are the 8% of Democrats that are like, let's go. You think maybe they're Jew?
- [65:05]
B
All right, they work for cnn. They, you know, whatever.
- [65:08]
A
CNN thinks it's a good idea.
- [65:10]
B
No, dude, CNN is running cover for Donald Trump during this time.
- [65:15]
A
For real?
- [65:16]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [65:16]
A
No way.
- [65:17]
B
Yeah. They put up a poll the other day. They had a graphic that said 100% of MAGA supports the war in. In Iran. There's. It's like after all these years, say
- [65:27]
C
he liked it or something like that.
- [65:28]
A
Oh, but hold on a second.
- [65:29]
C
Likes me.
- [65:30]
A
Is that running cover or is that making them look bad? Because most Americans don't support the war and most Democrats, 92% don't support the war. So if that's the case, wouldn't that just make. Look, these MAGA people are a fucking problem, I guess. Oh, my God. Maga GOP view of Trump. Can I hear how he says it or would it be a problem rating among talking.
- [65:53]
C
It's someone else talking.
- [65:54]
A
Okay, that seems bonkers. That seems bonkers. Approve 100%. How many people? Just two. Well, two guys with MAGA hats on,
- [66:03]
B
if you notice the way they say this. Right. So they don't just say GOP voters, they say maga GOP voters. And so what they're doing here is that they're filtering. Who they consider to be MAGA and who they consider to be MAGA are the people who still say they support Donald Trump, but almost like 100% of the people who don't support this war stop supporting Donald Trump over it.
- [66:24]
A
Right, but look at this little thing on the bottom. They don't show you 66%, 31% split among non MAGA.
- [66:32]
B
Right.
- [66:32]
A
And is that non MAGA Republicans, is that what you're saying?
- [66:36]
B
No, I think that's non MAGA Americans,
- [66:38]
A
I believe, like the whole MAGA thing is like, how did we're so fractioned as it is.
- [66:43]
B
Yeah.
- [66:44]
A
Like this whole idea of right versus left as it is. And now you've got a MAGA section
- [66:49]
B
of the right it's all just ridiculous, dude. But it's a way to describe it as anything other than what it is, which is the most unpopular war in American history going into it. And for good reason. Look, dude, he didn't even bother to like, sell us on a propaganda campaign about it.
- [67:02]
A
He.
- [67:02]
B
It was like the laziest, like, just lie. Just lie us into it.
- [67:06]
A
Let's put on a fucking firm tinfoil hat right now. Let's. Let's get a double layer Reynolds wrap, fucking crease the edges, fold it down. Why would he want to do this? Why would he want to? Look, I am not denying that the regime of Iran is a giant problem. I'm certainly not denying that. If I was Israel, I would not want them there. They hate you. They're trying to get a nuclear weapon. They're right there. I get the Israel position. I totally understand how they're so just vehemently in defense of their homeland. Like, they're surrounded by people that hate them. They're the one Jewish country. Everyone else is, is a Muslim. They all want a caliphate. They all want to kill him. It's been going on forever. They think it's in God's word that they have. It's a lot of craziness. I get it. Why now? Why now? Does that make any sense?
- [68:08]
B
Well, Trump himself has said, which literally, this would be considered an anti Semitic conspiracy theory if anyone else had said it. But Donald Trump has openly talked about many times how the Adelsons give them all this money and they come by every day and all they have is another demand on behalf of Israel. Donald Trump, also, very early in his political career, got in trouble with the Israel lobby and then immediately pivoted to blaming, to winning their favor back over by saying he would tear up the jcpoa, the Iran deal that Obama got us into. And it looks to me, you know, there's speculation aside, who knows exactly what control they have over the guy. But it looks to me that after Venezuela and when there were these big street protests and riots against the regime and around there, that they convinced Trump, and this is what Joe Kent, his director of counterterrorism, has said, too, that they essentially convinced him that this would be the time you could do it swiftly, surgically remove the regime and the people would rise up and overthrow it. And this is what Donald Trump said when he launched this war. He said, this is a regime change. And I'm calling on the great people of Iran to rise up. And they did. They rose up by at least the hundreds of Thousands, they were out in Tehran in defense of the regime, chanting, death to America. Because it turns out when you kill 165 little girls, that doesn't make a country go, we love you. Thank you.
- [69:44]
A
Right. But before the bombing, there were people in the streets that were protesting and people were killed because of that a lot. That's the other thing is that that regime is like they clamped down and they do it with public figures. They killed a very prominent wrestler from Iran. Two of them. They killed one a few years back. The UFC tried to step in and somehow another. Stop it. But he was also one that was accused of protesting against the government.
- [70:11]
B
Well, listen, I don't know about this most recent one. I'm not saying this is true at all. I don't trust any governments. But he was, they claimed he killed a few cops. That's what the Iranian regime said he was being hung for. Now, I don't.
- [70:23]
A
The wrestler?
- [70:24]
B
Yeah, the wrestler. Oh, I didn't see that. Convicted of that, whatever that means in a mullah run court, you know. So I'm not saying that's right at all. But I will say this right. Donald Trump, when he launched this war, and there's been a whole lot of just false claims that have been made, but he said specifically that they killed 32,000 protesters. There has not been a shred of evidence presented to back up this claim. Now, I'm not saying it's not true. I'm not putting it past this government that they would do that. And they've acknowledged that a lot of people have died. I think the last I had seen was that I know they were saying the government of Iran, this is before the Ayatollah was killed. They were saying it was something like 3,000 people had died. And then the CIA.
- [71:13]
A
But when you say died, does it mean they killed the person?
- [71:16]
B
Well, that's unclear. That's, that's not what they are claiming. But then the CIA, at least there was a piece in the Washington, excuse me, in the Wall Street Journal where they had said, and this was like a week and a half into it, that they estimated like six and a half thousand or something like that. But this is a huge question, right? And it's not clear at all. Like were they lining people up, up and just executing them for the crime of protesting? They hung the wrestler. But I'm saying the people who have
- [71:40]
A
been killed here, Iran protest death toll could top 30,000 according to local, local health officials. And this is from Time magazine, as many as 30,000 people could have been killed in the streets of Iran on January 8th and 9th alone. Two senior officials of the country's Ministry of Health told TIME indicating a dramatic surge in the death toll. So many people were slaughtered by Iranian security services and that Thursday and Friday it overwhelmed the state's capacity to dispose of the dead. Stocks of body bags were exhausted, the Officials said in 18 wheel semi trailers replaced ambulances.
- [72:18]
B
Now listen, all I'm saying here man, is that you gotta be. I've just seen this movie play out a lot of times. You gotta be really careful about these accusations that are made in the run up to a war. They're basically saying, we have a source who told us this.
- [72:30]
A
What year was it? I mean, excuse me, what date was this?
- [72:32]
C
January 25th.
- [72:33]
A
January 25th.
- [72:34]
B
So the protests started in late December and then in January.
- [72:37]
A
This is Time was unable to independently verify these figures.
- [72:42]
B
That's right. Listen, the claim being made here, right, is that, look in this paint. They said in two days, in two days 30,000 people were killed. If that is true, that is up there with one of the biggest massacres in human history. The biggest massacres during World War II were like around that.
- [73:00]
A
As of Saturday, U.S. based Human Rights Activist News Agency had confirmed 5,459 deaths and is investigating 17,000 more. Yes, so that's at least close. So we're in the neighborhood, we're in the 20s. Just if what they're investigating turns out to be accurate.
- [73:19]
B
If that's the case. But we're talking also here, Joe, about like Ned funded US based NGOs who are really around hawks, you know, and so, and I'm just saying like, look, the claim, claim, the claim here is that around, you know, I saw a bunch of the, the Zionists online when this was first coming out back in January. They were like, oh my God, they've already killed half as many people as died in Gaza in just a couple days. And you're like, right, that's a pretty, that's a hell of a claim, right? I mean like if you just from following wars all these years, if you started carpet bombing Tehran, Vietnam style carpet bombing Tehran after two days, that's the type of death toll you'd be looking at.
- [73:59]
A
Well, the thing was we don't, they don't have. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. April 15th is coming fast. There's been so many tax law changes this year, which means you're going to need an expert who has your back. You're in luck. TurboTax now has in person locations nationwide. Walk into their tech enabled stores and meet face to face with a Turbo tax full service expert who will get your best outcome. Your expert works to get you every dollar you deserve while updating you as you go about your day. Head to turbotax.com to find a store near you. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. People always ask me what my website is powered by and the answer is Squarespace. Their design tools are unmatched. You don't have to be a tech wizard to build something that actually looks professional and fits your brand. They've even got an AI powered website builder that lets you put together a fully custom site in just a few steps. Try it for yourself. Head to squarespace.com rogan for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, just use the offer code rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Internet access.
- [75:16]
B
Well, they shut down the Internet during that period, but there were pictures that came out. All I'm saying is that if you had numbers like that, that you would expect there to be some evidence that you could point to. And there's like one picture where they've pointed to like a couple dozen body bags and been like, see, look at this. But look, maybe it's true, maybe it's not. I'm very skeptical of these claims when they're made right before we launch a war. But I think the other point is that at least according then, there has been some evidence of this, right? There were police stations that were burned, there were mosques that were attacked. These were not, not just peaceful protests. I'm not saying they don't have a right to violently rise up and overthrow their government, whatever. But all the, the hawks in the west were saying these people are trying to overthrow their government.
- [76:01]
A
Not only that, in the past, our agencies, our intelligence agencies have engaged in nefarious practices where we have conscripted certain people to go and light things on fire and blow things up and create these events to accelerate.
- [76:19]
B
Front page of the Jerusalem Post. They were bragging that there was Mossad within the protests. So now, look, I don't know. But also the thing is this, right? If you are trying to overthrow a government, a government will kill you for doing that. And that's true about every government, including our own. Including our own. If armed protesters went to try to overthrow Barack Obama's government, he would kill those people if they were actually a threat to do that.
- [76:45]
A
Ashley Babbitt was murdered January 6th.
- [76:48]
B
Every single left winger in the country went, well, that's okay. It was an insurrection. And by the way, every single right winger in this country, when this pretty guy got killed, were like, well, he was interfering. Oh, I saw it. But by the way, the pretty thing was the most textbook example of a bad shooting. There's just no defending it. They had disarmed the guy. He's down. There's six of them. They panic, they put six bullets in him.
- [77:10]
A
Do you know what happened, though? Do you know. Do you know the whole story of
- [77:13]
B
the gun, the gun being removed?
- [77:15]
A
Yeah. Do you know the whole story about the gun?
- [77:17]
B
No. Okay.
- [77:18]
A
The gun is a Sig P320.
- [77:20]
B
Right.
- [77:20]
A
A Sig P320 is notorious for accidental discharges.
- [77:24]
B
Right.
- [77:24]
A
There is a video of the copper moving the gun walking off.
- [77:28]
B
Yes, I saw that.
- [77:29]
A
And the gun goes off.
- [77:31]
B
Is that. And that. Is that his gun? For sure?
- [77:33]
A
Yeah.
- [77:33]
B
Because I thought that hadn't been determined whether or not I heard people speculating
- [77:36]
A
about the video multiple times. And I've watched other people's analysis of it. Obviously I'm no expert, but I do know something about guns. And that gun in particular has been demonstrated that it will go off. There's a cop inside of a precinct, he bends over, not touching his gun. Gun in the holster, and it goes off. There's a guy. There's a video of a guy on a range and an ax. A gun just goes off. And he goes, whose fucking gun was that? And the range master goes, is that a Sig? And he goes, yeah. He goes, get that fucking gun off of my range.
- [78:10]
B
Wow.
- [78:11]
A
Because it's a P3, I should be real clear, Sig makes a bunch of guns that are awesome. Like, the P365 is like one of the best carry guns in the world. There's a lot of guns they make that don't have this issue. But that particular gun that Pretty had with one in the chamber. This knuckleheads walking around with one in the chamber.
- [78:28]
B
Absolutely. It's. And. And all for. I'm just saying. The only point I'm making is that it's clearly. It was a fuck up. I'm not saying like they wanted to execute the guy. I'm just saying like they had the gun taken from them. They didn't communicate that to each other. They. They freaked out. But literally all it took was seeing one video 11 days earlier where he kicked the back of a cop car.
- [78:48]
A
Right.
- [78:48]
B
And for every right winger to go, yeah, whatever, dude. Got what you deserve. So all my point is about this, looking at this in the Iranian regime, it's just not clear, like, what are you actually accusing them of? Are you saying that somebody was trying to overthrow the government and the government mowed them down? Are you saying that they lined up protesters and shot them all in the back of the head simply for voicing their opinion? Like. Like, none of this is made clear. But when the war drums are beating, no one even cares to, like, ask these questions. It's just like, yep, they killed their own people. And then, if you notice, with this war, much like with Venezuela, and almost like with all of them, they just keep giving you, like, they throw, like, 15 justifications at it, you know, and you're like, wait, which one is the reason we're fighting this? Because I saw that all of them like, to play the humanitarian card and go, we're doing this to, you know, for these oppressed people. We want them to rise up. They've been living under this brutal regime. And you're like, okay, two things. Like, number one, that is simply just not how US Foreign policy works. We don't fight wars on humanitarian grounds. You know what I mean? Like, we're partners with some of the most brutal authoritarians in the world, and we've. And in the case of, like, Israel, we've been funding their destruction of Gaza for the last two and a half years. Like, it's. And so, like, that's not really what's motivating this here. And then, number two, Donald Trump even just the other day said he'll be partners with the new ayatollah and run the Strait of Hormuz together. He's backed off.
- [80:13]
A
Did you say that?
- [80:13]
B
Yeah, he's backed off of regime change
- [80:16]
A
or the idea that talking to him. Is someone talking to him. Like, who. Who is he talking to? Do they know who they're talking to? Because it's not like they're meeting. Donald Trump said, some guys on the phone, I am free to negotiate, dude. He's.
- [80:31]
B
He said, Donald Trump himself said the other day that. That he goes, negotiate. We're negotiating. Negotiations are going great. And they go, who are you negotiating with? And he goes, a person we believe to be in charge. And then they said, so is this the new supreme leader? And he said, no, no, no one's heard from that guy. We don't know where he is.
- [80:50]
A
Some hacker in his basement in Belarus. And it's not Radiant accent. And he's got them convinced. Well, it's just, I have the authority to negotiate. Let's be partners. Let's be wire 1 million bitcoin to this address.
- [81:11]
B
Well, everything I'm seeing publicly reported today is that Iran is like, no, we're not in these negotiations. We've made our terms clear. And their terms, what they're asking for is something that Donald Trump is not gonna be able to give them.
- [81:24]
A
What's that?
- [81:27]
B
Their demands were that we stop attacking immediately. Like that part they might get, that we pay them restitution for all the damage so far, essentially that we leave the region. I mean, they had a few other things there that were just like.
- [81:45]
A
And they want them to open up a Terry Blacks in Tehran.
- [81:52]
B
This one was really important to us.
- [81:54]
A
When Terry Black's barbecue. We don't have a good barbecue here. It doesn't seem like if he's not really negotiating with this guy, if that's not true, and he's just putting this out there in the public as a negotiation ploy. What a clusterfuck. Because you're dealing with people that don't mind dying. They believe. I mean, these are very religious people. They're fanatical. They believe they're going to go to heaven. They believe they're martyrs and they're fighting for Allah. This is the just and holy war.
- [82:29]
B
Well, they've also been.
- [82:30]
A
And they've been attacked.
- [82:31]
B
Well, that's right. And they've been preparing for this for a long time, you know, and they like, there's, you know, people make a lot out of the chants that the Iranians, you know, they chant. Death to America.
- [82:42]
A
What do you got there, Jimmy?
- [82:43]
B
Sorry.
- [82:46]
A
And who's in control of it?
- [82:48]
B
Will Iran still be able to control the flow?
- [82:50]
A
Be jointly controlled by who? Maybe me. Maybe me. Me and the Ayatollah. Whoever the ayatollah is, whoever the next ayatollah. Look. And there'll also be a form of a, a very serious form of a regime change. Now, in all fairness, everybody's been killed from the regime. There's automatically a regime change. But we're dealing with some people that I find to be very reasonable, very solid. The people within know who they are, they're very respected. And maybe one of them will be exactly what we're looking for. Look at Venezuela, how well that's working.
- [83:33]
B
I mean, dude, this is such a fucking mess. This is such a mess, dude. I mean, this is just too ridiculous, dude. And the, you know, the thing is that a lot of people, you know, I've spent a long time at this point being against this war. Cuz this war has been telegraphed since, you know, the Bush administration wanted to do this shit. And at leave for like 15 years I've been publicly opposing this war. And one of the reasons why so many of us oppose this, and it's a shitty way to be vindicated, but is that, look, Iran is just not like any of the other opponents in the global war on terrorism. It's a different beast entirely. And you've seen this already only three weeks in. We never dealt with any of this with any of the other countries. You know what I mean? We had what the Pentagon calls escalation dominance in all of those other wars, which is all essentially like, it's just like meaning, like, if you do this, we do this, if you do that, like we're prepared for everything. It's kind of like escalation dominance is a lot like, you know, like in jiu jitsu, where you see really high level guys who basically put you in a position where you can make one of two choices in either way, you know, like, okay, you can, you can give me your back and I'll choke you, or you can push off me and I'll arm bar you and you know, like, whatever option you have, I'm going to get you. We don't have that with Iran. And Pentagon's been open about this since at least 2007. And the fact is that as we're already seeing, they can target ships in the Strait of Hormuz, they can target our assets, our bases, our embassies in the region, they can target our allies. And this is a big problem. And so like, it seems like Donald Trump got into this thinking it would be like Venezuela, it would be quick and bloodless and easy and he could claim victory. Now that it's not gone that way, it seems like he's kind of scrambling for what the off ramp is here. Now at least I give Donald Trump as angry as I am with him, like, at least it is true that he's looking for an off ramp, it seems like. And he did this with the 12 Day War, right? Like he started the war, he saw an off ramp and he took it. The problem here really is that, that this war changed the calculation from the Iranian perspective. And that much is clear so far. After 9, 11, all the countries in the Middle east and North Africa, all the ones essentially, they all waved the white flag, all of them. Saddam Hussein welcomed UN inspectors in. He was trying to do anything he could to not meet the fate that he ultimately met. Gaddafi denuclearized, got rid of chemical weapons, Bashar Al Assad got rid of all his chemical weapons, like they were all just like, we don't want it with you, you know, And Iran was very much the same way. They got into the jcpoa, they allowed an inspections regime in to come look at their nuclear facilities, all of that. And even up to the 12 Day War, when we dropped the bunker buster, as in Israel, bombed a whole bunch of regime targets, they still in their response, called ahead, made sure there'd be no U.S. troops there. They hit the side of a little base there and then they kind of went like they gave Trump an off ramp because they didn't want it, you know, they didn't want it. They don't want to die like Muammar Gaddafi. They don't want to, you know, have their country destroyed. So for self preservation reasons, they showed restraint. The calculation this time clearly already from the Iranians was that we can't do that again. We, we have to give you a bloody nose and a black eye. We have to make this cost as much as possible for you, otherwise you guys will just be back here in another five months doing it again. And they're probably right about that.
- [87:07]
A
They're probably right.
- [87:08]
B
And so now we're in this situation where we're already in a quagmire. It's already like over a dozen Americans have died, I think a couple hundred wounded at this point. Israel isn't given real numbers on what's going on there, but there's some pretty substantial damage and definitely some Israelis have died and I'm sure thousands of Iranians have, have died at this point. It's cost. I mean, Pete Heggshead's just asked for $200 billion. I don't know if it'll get up to cost in that much, but this thing is certainly already in the tens of billions if you consider munition, military movements and then just the damage to embassies and bases and stuff like that. I mean, this thing is already a disaster. And so now it's not like Venezuela, where Donald Trump could just stop and declare victory and even say like, look how great it's working out. Is Venezuela really working out that great? I don't know. That's, you know, we took one guy away, the regime's still in place, the people haven't been liberated, but whatever, he can claim that this. Now the problem here is that, okay, number one, Donald Trump's not really in a situation where if he just quit right now, how is he really gonna say, look how wonderful this is. It's Like, I don't know, dude, this cost a lot already. And it doesn't seem like there's any clear, like what did we get out of this?
- [88:23]
A
Well, the only way it would work is if there was some sort of a deal with whoever the fuck is gonna be the new guy in charge. And they did come to some sort of an agreement and they did give them some compensation for all the shit we blew up.
- [88:37]
B
Yes, well, that.
- [88:37]
A
Right, so they'll just print some more money for that. Sure, perhaps. And inflation go up.
- [88:41]
B
But look, here's the thing, is that it's not just Donald Trump. There's two other participants in this war, two other entities in this war. There's Iran and there's Israel. Okay, now is Iran gonna accept that? Maybe. But look, just like the 12 Day War, look at the position you're in now, we're relying on the mullahs, you know what I mean? Like, it's that that is not an ideal situation to be in. And then the other factor is that there's Israel, who also gets a say in this for some reason because we allow them to. And Netanyahu just the other day was very clear about this. This is a regime change. And he even said it will require ground forces. And he said he's not sure who those ground forces will be yet. And so now this happened. If you. Do you remember the moment during the 12 Day War when it was the closest Trump ever came to like flipping out on Israel. And he said, they don't know what the fuck they're doing. But he said Israel and Iran don't know what the fuck they're doing because Donald Trump, so after he drops the bunker busters, he goes, that's it, we're, you know what I mean, we're taking the off ramp. And then he said, I want to work out a cease fire now. And then after he said that, Israel just started lighting up regime targets, just bombing the crap out of them. And they weren't bombing nuclear facilities, they were just bombing like government buildings. And they've been doing a bunch of that in this war as well, bombing local police departments, things like that, just creating chaos. Cuz what they want is what they've been getting in the rest of the war on terrorism. They are quite happy with a Libya model or a Syria model.
- [90:17]
A
They don't want anyone that's organized as a threat to Israel.
- [90:20]
B
They don't. It's all about Iran's support for Hezbollah is that they want southern Lebanon, which they just. Katz, their defense minister, just Announced that they're gonna occupy.
- [90:30]
A
Yeah. That's crazy, right? They just announced it'd be occupying another country.
- [90:34]
B
That's what it's about, man. And look, I mean, it's not. Again, this isn't like a conspiracy theory. The guys all tell you this in their own words. Benjamin Netanyahu was asked point blank a few months back what he thought of the Greater Israel Project. And he said, it's very near and dear to my heart. Like, this is the point of denying the Palestinians a state for all these years. You can't let the Palestinians have a state because then how are you gonna take that all over someday? That's all supposed to be part of Israel. And the US Ambassador. The US Ambassador. Not the Israeli ambassador, the US Ambassador to Israel is on record saying that God promised Iraq to Benjamin Netanyahu and that God promised Lebanon and Saudi Arabia and the west bank and parts of Syria, and all of this is Greater Israel. That is it. By the way, Sam Harris, where are you out on that? Where are the new atheists when you could finally use them for something? Hey, that's pretty crazy. Is that how we do politics? We work on this ridiculous religious superstition that somehow when God said Israel in Genesis, he was referring to the state that was created that they named after that passage. This would literally be on the level, Joe, is if I named my son Jesus Christ. And then I told you, you have to worship my son.
- [91:53]
A
Done.
- [91:54]
B
Look, it's right there in your Bible.
- [91:55]
A
Exactly.
- [91:55]
B
That you worship. No, you named it after that dude.
- [91:58]
A
Yeah.
- [91:58]
B
That doesn't count.
- [91:59]
A
That's crazy. And they took the spot where it was. Yeah, I mean, like, they took over and they did it in a horrific way. Like the Napka.
- [92:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. You.
- [92:07]
A
You listen to some of those soldiers. The translation of some of those soldiers talking about what they did and even laughing about what they did. Some of them even smiling in 1948. Yeah.
- [92:15]
B
Because it's not. It wasn't in 1848.
- [92:17]
A
Right.
- [92:17]
B
You know what I mean? Like, these guys were alive. Maybe not so many of them now, but like 20, 30 years ago. You could put a video camera in front of one of these guys and ask them to tell their story. Right.
- [92:26]
A
It was 78 years ago. It wasn't that long ago.
- [92:28]
B
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. And so, you know, look, I mean, the idea here that America, after just 25 years of catastrophic failures, launching wars of choice, wars of aggression, lying the American people into it, just slaughter millions of people and like, bankrupting this country and really severely degrading the country with these wars. The idea that we would jump into another war of choice for Israel is just too, like, this is too crazy, man. And especially when it's the administration that really ran on and promised that we want to get out of the, of this, out of this game of fighting stupid wars in the Middle East.
- [93:16]
A
Yeah, that was what we were all supporting. Yeah, that was the one thing that he was saying that was so promising to so many people that were independent, that were on the fence. Like, this guy wants no wars, all right? He wants closing the border, which this episode is brought to you by To Covas. Oh look, if you appreciate things that are made right, you gotta check out To Covas. Handmade of high quality leather and built to last for the long haul. You put them on and right away they're comfortable and ready to wear out the door. And honestly, it's one of the biggest things. Most boots take forever to break in, but these should feel broken in straight out of the box. They've got everything too. Obviously the traditional leathers like cowhide and goat, but also exotic leathers if you want to level up a little. The best part is that all their boots can be dressed up or down. Wear them with jeans, out to dinner on the ranch, in the studio, whatever. To Cova's has you covered. So go check out To Cova's in store or online@tocovas.com Rogan and get 10% off when you sign up for email and texts. That's T E C o V A S.com Rogan this episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog Recipes, cooking methods, even portioning. It all makes a difference for your dog's health. And the Farmer's Dog is pouring a ton of resources into new research studies. They've also just started sponsoring a residency program at the University of Tennessee's College of Veterinary Medicine which aims to contribute new research and help shape the future of pet health. You can see their dedication to science backed dog nutrition in their food. Every recipe is developed by a team of board certified veterinary nutritionists and they offer tailored plans for dogs of all ages, sizes and breeds. They do all this on top of offering a high quality product of real meat, fresh vegetables and essential nutrients. They even portion the food to your dog's specific caloric needs because keeping dogs at a healthy weight can help them live up to two and a half years longer. Try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus get free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.com rogan this offer is for new customers only. I think it's a great idea. He wants no wars. That enough? Let's go.
- [95:49]
B
Well, especially considering the fact that, well like even if there are some things about Donald Trump that maybe you don't like, but the other guys are saying we want to keep fighting forever wars and this guy is saying we should stop doing that. That's enough to go, well then he's better than you on net. And don't get me wrong, I mean I endorse Donald Trump in 24. People give me shit for that. Some people like that, some people give me shit for it. But I kind of view it like this. And I really, I will say maybe I'm a little biased here, cuz I love you, but I don't think I'm being biased. I really think you played an enormous role in kind of like standing up to the progressive Democratic establishment and their narrative over the last decade or so. And it's really hard to kind of overstate how crazy they were, how much of a threat to this country they were. And so for anybody who wants to give shit to anyone who voted for Donald Trump, it's like, hey man. The alternative was the party who bragged about, about first off, insane woke shit like poisoning the minds of children in a really grotesque and abusive way. They gave us open borders, flooding the country with people. They gave us all types of COVID tyranny based on pseudoscience. They gave us the most reckless foreign policy in American history, which was this proxy war on Russia's border. And they were running, they were pretending the President wasn't senile when he clearly was. Then they in the place first fourth quarter threw up a cackling retard who was not democratically picked in any process. And so sorry like it, it does make sense that a lot of people went, okay, we're gonna go back with, with this other guy.
- [97:34]
A
Yeah.
- [97:34]
B
Also there was an interesting dynamic happening in 24 where okay, this wasn't, you know, Donald Trump. They had actually tried to throw him in jail, maybe even tried to murder him. We never really got any answers on that one. He now had Bobby Kennedy with them, he now had Tulsi Gabbard with him. He now had all, you know what I mean, even J.D. vance, like people who were supposedly much more non interventionist. There was reason to hope that maybe it wouldn't end up here. But anyway, I guess my thing is that you played such a huge role in this And I, to a lesser extent, played a role in standing up against a lot of that progressive insanity over the last 10 years. And I just feel like after 24, you know, this coalition came together where Donald Trump, for the first time ever wins the popular vote, wins every single swing state, and really, more remarkably, won the youth and the culture. Like, Donald Trump went from being, like, the cultural pariah to being the guy like, Jon Jones is doing the dance at the front. And it was just. It was. And that whole coalition has been destroyed over this war. And now he's gonna hand the country right back over to these Democrats who we've been fighting so hard. All for what? All for a war that Netanyahu wanted against a country that. Dude, by the way, the justification for the 12 Day War was bullshit. They weren't trying to make nuclear weapons. They were trying to negotiate out of that unscathed. But then all. And I wanna. You know, he said some nice things about me when he was on here the other day with you. So I will say some nice things about Konstantin Kassen, who, despite our disagreements, I really like that guy a lot. But he is. I could be wrong. I could be missing someone. He's the only guy I've seen who supported the 12 Day War but is really skeptical about this. And I've seen so many people. It's unbelievable, dude.
- [99:19]
A
Like, they.
- [99:20]
B
They just. So, like, the 12 day war comes. For the first 48 hours of it, they're like, dude, Israel's doing this on its own. All they want is for you to stay out of it. Then, like, the third day, they're like, all right, they do need some help shooting down the missiles that are coming back toward them. But whatever. This is just defensive. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to get involved. Then it's like, the next day, like, all right, we don't have bunker busters, so we do need you to drop the bunker busters. But then their whole, like, defense of the 12 Day War was like, look, no, Americans died. It didn't cost us a lot. It didn't turn into this disaster. And now we're at the. Okay, well, fine. All of that happened, but it's still a good thing. Constantin was the one guy I saw who was like, no, I supported that one, but I am not getting on board with this one. And I give him a lot of credit for that. I give him a lot of credit for that.
- [100:05]
A
I like that guy a lot. I like him a lot. I like Francis a lot, too.
- [100:09]
B
I do, too.
- [100:09]
A
Their show Trigonometry is one of the best shows. Agree with them or not agree with them. They're always reasonable. They're never ideologically driven. They have opinions that you may or may not agree with, but they're real clear about their opinions and why they
- [100:22]
B
believe what they believe. Yeah, that's right. And I. I will say they're great guys. Yeah. Genuinely good dudes. Great guys. I really liked. You know, I get in a lot of, like, the shit show, like, arguments. I find myself in them. I probably should be better than them and just not engage. But I. I'm not. And I'm petty.
- [100:38]
A
What do you mean by shit show?
- [100:39]
B
Like, where it just becomes like an insult thing or, you know, I debated Alex Barron said, or just kind. It's kind of embarrassing in hindsight, but, like, I don't know, it gets me really angry when the guy's calling me a Holocaust denier or something like that.
- [100:50]
A
What he was crazy, was kind of silly. The way he was saying it was silly. And he was just trying to play gotcha with you and then you called
- [100:57]
B
him a. Yeah, it's not my finest moment.
- [101:00]
A
You can tell he was really shaken by that. Well, it's just that he expected that.
- [101:04]
B
I kind of have a thing where, like, look, I'm really into this shit and I nerd out on it and I'm obsessed with all of this for whatever reason. It's just like my calling in life. But I'm also stand up comic at heart, you know? And so, like, as soon as someone goes like, oh, I want to be vicious. You're like, oh, you want to be vicious? Because, like, I'm pretty good at being vicious. So, like, I could do that. And you're probably not used to hearing this type of vicious shit that, like, comics say to each other, right? But one of the things that I really appreciated about Francis and Constantin was when I went to do their show, it was just like, it was genuinely a good faith conversation. And they weren't trying. They weren't trying to like, win the point or get a clip that they could go, we destroyed Dave. And then once they do that, I'm like, okay, well, then I'm not trying to do that either, man. Like, let's talk about this shit. That's always what I'd rather do. But the thing that's. I guess the thing that's really interesting about this moment is that because the kind of corporate media propaganda apparatus has been completely destroyed and because the Internet and social media and podcasts are where People go now for conversations and debates and news and all this stuff. They're kind of like they're running without a propaganda apparatus, you know, like Israel, just Israel in the last two and a half years is down like 50 points in the polls, like, in terms of American approval. Like, they've just been.
- [102:28]
A
It's.
- [102:28]
B
It's a drastic change like I've never seen on any issue over the last few years.
- [102:32]
A
Well, it's been time in our lifetimes where it's been an issue that we are dealing with the consequences of the relationship.
- [102:37]
B
That's right.
- [102:37]
A
There's never been a time in the past where people were completely aware of, oh, there's no other reason why we'd be going into Iran. Like most people. Most people don't think 100% it wasn't for Israel asking us to. Netanyahu's consistent visits to the White House multiple.
- [102:53]
B
Oh, you can't even pretend otherwise. I mean, people try, but.
- [102:57]
A
People do. Yes.
- [102:58]
B
Well, they try to, but people.
- [102:59]
A
Coleman Hughes just got in a debate with Glenn Greenwald about it.
- [103:03]
B
I saw that they did it. I have not had a chance to watch it.
- [103:06]
A
Somebody sent it to me and it was, you know, I'm. I'm being a good boy when it comes to social media. It's been so good for my brain. Yeah, it's kind of remarkable. So I got.
- [103:15]
B
Staying off, you mean?
- [103:16]
A
Yeah, my new phone, I'm not going to put anything on it. I'm going to have my old phone and leave it at home, and I'm not going to be able to look at it. So when I have to post things, I got to post it on my other phone. That's not going to be with me. Me, I'm not doing that anymore because I just think eventually, ultimately, it rots your brain, but you do get some cool debates and some insight into what's going on. And I don't know what Coleman's argument was, but Glenn and Coleman were arguing about Israel's influence on this.
- [103:46]
B
Well, I'll be very interested to watch that. I do respect Coleman, despite disagreeing with him very adamantly on this. Very smart guy, Very smart guy. No question about that.
- [103:54]
A
And a very nice guy.
- [103:56]
B
And look, I. One of the things I really respect about him is when I did his show, he literally starts it by going. He goes, you know, almost all these debates I see you in, like, you're kind of debating issues, and then people just debate your character. And he goes, I'm not doing that at all. I want to talk about the issues the whole time. And I just genuinely appreciate that.
- [104:14]
A
No, agree with him or disagree with him. He's a super reasonable guy and a very nice guy. I like him a lot. I like him a lot. Whether I agree with him or disagree with him, he's a wonderful person.
- [104:25]
B
Agreed. This is what I will say about his position on this, which I think is kind of interesting. So number one, when I was on Piers Morgan with him right after Venezuela happened and he was his position, I don't wanna mischaracterize it, but I think this is pretty accurate. Was he was like, look, a lot of people are comparing Venezuela to Iraq or Libya or Syria, but like, like that is a different region, a different culture, a different religion. And so really what we should be comparing this to is other interventions in, in Latin America and South America. And I, you know, I didn't completely agree with that. I was like, actually I think there are some lessons you could learn from other wars that we've been in that might apply here. But I was like, okay, fair enough. Hey, let's look at other interventions in Central and South America because we've got a long list of really disastrous ones. Like if you want to look, look at Guatemala or Nicaragua or, you know, Cuba, Mexico, a whole bunch. But then when this war in Iran starts, I don't see him going the equal opposite of that going, hey, now that we're at war with Iran, we have to judge this by Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria, because you know what I'm saying, like that would be the flip side to the other position. And so I don't see that. The other thing is that when he's arguing with me about, cuz I was arguing that, you know, that is the Israel lobby and the Israeli government were a huge part of why we fought the war in Iraq.
- [105:52]
A
Right?
- [105:52]
B
And his big point that he stuck to, a lot of the hawks stick to this, is that Ariel Sharon was actually, who was the sitting prime minister at the time, he was actually against the war in Iraq. Now that's not exactly true. He, he wanted George W. Bush to invade Iran first, not Iraq. And then when he got assurances that Iran would be next, he got on board. You could go look at Sharon's speech. He gave a speech, I think it was in August of 2002, to the Knesset. And it's all about how Iraq is the biggest threat. They have weapons of mass destruction. But the Mossad was cranking out all types of BS intelligence about the nuclear weapons that he could detonate in 15 minutes or whatever. It was all nonsense. But if you're gonna say that that is evidence that Israel was not pushing us into this because the sitting prime minister at the time.
- [106:38]
C
Time.
- [106:38]
B
Didn't like this war. Okay, but again, then, how does the current sitting prime minister of Israel feel about this war in Iran? Because he's fighting it with us. And he said after it started that this is the culmination of his entire life's work. He has been trying to lie our government into this war for my entire lifetime coming here. He testified. How many times in front of our Congress testified.
- [107:03]
A
With the cartoon of a US Cartoon. A bomb cartoon with percentages of the
- [107:09]
B
enriched uranium and like a Daffy Duck bomb, Not like. Like a. The bomb that'll blow your beak around
- [107:15]
A
to the other bottom with a fuse.
- [107:16]
B
And it was. He was already up real high. He was already up real high. No, dude, he was on record saying that Iran was three to five years away from getting a nuclear weapon. In the 90s.
- [107:25]
A
In the 90s.
- [107:25]
B
He's. I mean, it's just. He's just been lying through his teeth. And there is something. Look, man, there's something really profoundly dishonorable about trying to lie another country into war. Like, not even trying to sell the war to your own people and have your own military do it, but because you can.
- [107:44]
A
There it is.
- [107:45]
B
Yeah, there we are. We were up to 90% first stage.
- [107:48]
A
No, it was first stage we were at. He was saying, they've hit the first stage.
- [107:53]
B
Oh, oh, oh. Excuse me. Okay. Yeah, you're right. I guess this is. We can't.
- [107:56]
A
We can't go any further, Mom.
- [107:59]
B
It's just so ridiculous. Ridiculous. And he knows. He knows he's lying.
- [108:02]
A
He's like your friend that, like, you've been friends with since high school, and every time you go out, he gets you in a fight.
- [108:07]
B
Yeah.
- [108:07]
A
You're like, dude, don't do this. Like, those guys over there are a problem. Let's go over there and fuck them up. And like, you know, all your buddies are like, dude, again, dude, I use
- [108:17]
B
that exact analogy when I debated Josh Hammer at Princeton University. And. Or maybe it was the Charlie Kirk. It was one of the times I debated him, but I used that exact analogy. He was like, is Israel an ally? And I was like, no, it's like, they're not. A good friend.
- [108:29]
A
Friend.
- [108:29]
B
Bro, if your friend's getting you in a bar fight every night, stop hanging out with that guy, bro.
- [108:34]
A
Tim Dillon did an ad for Neuro Gum and Neuromints on his Podcast where he's like, I have a friend. Let's just call her Erica. And he does this Erica Kirk ad. He doesn't say, it's Erica Kirk for Neurogum. Have you heard of Jamie? Oh, my God. Oh, my God, it's so funny. Oh, my God. It's. It's so crazy. He's so out of his. I fucking love him so much. I'm so happy Tim Dillon's in the world.
- [109:06]
B
He is.
- [109:07]
A
He's the best. If you're not listening to his podcast and you want a rational but hilarious take on all the fucking madness that's going on with not just this war, but the Epstein Files, his episode the Epstein Files. I hardly ever tweet about other people's podcasts, but I hardly ever tweet, but I posted it. I'm like, this is one of the best podcasts about anything ever.
- [109:28]
B
His ability. Tim's ability to, like, rant it, like, unprecedented. Like a hilarious rant that is laced with excellent points but is just hilarious the whole time. And just him going off is second to none.
- [109:43]
A
And he's sober. He just puts on his magic glasses.
- [109:45]
B
It's. Him and Fuentes are the top two,
- [109:48]
A
but he buries Fuentes. Fuentes is really good. Fuentes has very.
- [109:52]
B
Tim can do something different that anybody else can do well.
- [109:56]
A
His ability to blend sarcasm and just celebration of chaos.
- [110:03]
B
Yeah, he's second to none.
- [110:04]
A
Best ranter that's ever walked the face of the planet.
- [110:07]
B
I remember when I first met Tim in New York, back before he moved out to LA after that. But when I first met him in New York and he was, I think, like, he was a green standup. I think he hadn't been doing it for that long. But I remember just, like, being on podcast with him and just being like, yo, this dude is going to be a fucking superstar. Like, it was just like his. His ranting, like, ability. Like, he would go off on things where you just find yourself, like. Like you almost have a moment where you forget you're on the show with him.
- [110:39]
A
Yeah.
- [110:39]
B
You're like, I'm just sitting here watching. And then I'm like, oh, shit, I'm here to too. I better say something. But, like, he's just unbelievable.
- [110:46]
A
Listen to this ad. Listen, if I should tell this, but it does show how effective neuromints can be. A friend of mine, let's call her Erica, She.
- [111:02]
B
She's had a wildlife.
- [111:03]
A
This woman, she was in Romania.
- [111:06]
B
She had an orphanage.
- [111:08]
A
She was on a reality show, married this famous guy.
- [111:13]
B
She Was an intelligence asset. And I said to her, how do you do this? And she says, tim, it's neuro's energy and focus mints. And I said, but how do you
- [111:24]
A
do it after the guy, the husband
- [111:28]
B
and father, the kids, gets murdered and
- [111:29]
A
you're out there doing all kinds of stuff.
- [111:33]
B
You're doing fundraisers and. And you're dancing around with glitter pants. How does this happen?
- [111:38]
A
She goes, I could lie to you,
- [111:40]
B
but I'm telling you it's neuro's energy and focus mix. I said, really? She goes, sure. I said, how are you running this organization seven hours after this guy got popped?
- [111:53]
A
She goes, a lot of people speculate,
- [111:55]
B
but it's neuro's energy and focus mitts. I go, really? Really? She said, yeah. Neuro energy and focus is powered by natural green tea, caffeine, l Theanone for calm focus and vitamin B12 and B6. I mean, whatever they're paying him, they should pay him more.
- [112:14]
A
Yeah, it's not enough. No one could pay him enough. He's the goat.
- [112:17]
B
Well, that'll also just make you remember that product forever.
- [112:20]
A
Yeah, no, he's the greatest of all time.
- [112:23]
C
It might be.
- [112:24]
A
I'm trying to figure out how to turn our racetrack track sign on all the way. Is it broken? God damn, we need a new one. I'll get a hold of Bobby. He's the goat dude. He's. You mean just. Yeah. I had someone in the white house come up to me and goes, is Tim Dillon really gay? I go, yeah, he's really gay. Like, you think he would fake that?
- [112:45]
B
Yeah.
- [112:46]
A
How long have you known him? I go, I've known him forever. He's really gay.
- [112:49]
B
Yeah, well, he will. He's a. He's a real good undercover. But every now and then you see it come out. Every now and then you see like. Like I remember and this is back when he was young and. And he was broke at the time, But Tim was always kind of a snob even when he was broke. Like, it was always kind of. And I went, I forget what it was, but I was like, I was like, oh, we could get food from this restaurant. And he goes, from there. I go, yeah, they got good food. And he goes, you think that's good food? Like, because he's like a real like foodie or whatever. And there was just like, oh, I saw it for a second there.
- [113:18]
A
Well, you used to have money.
- [113:19]
B
Money.
- [113:19]
A
Because he had money when he was selling.
- [113:21]
B
He had money in finance.
- [113:22]
A
Then he decided to be subprime mortgages and, yeah, he was a part of the housing crisis.
- [113:26]
B
That's right.
- [113:26]
A
And he was doing cocaine back then. He.
- [113:28]
B
He did topple the US Economy for a while.
- [113:31]
A
He was part of it.
- [113:31]
B
But then he got into comedy. He more than made up for it. He's more than made up for that.
- [113:35]
A
This is where he belongs. Yeah, he belongs in front of that screen with the glasses on, just going on these insane rants. Oh, yeah, he's so funny, man. And look, Epstein files take was fucking genius.
- [113:48]
B
That was great, dude. His thing about Sam Harris having a meditation app and also supporting genocide is, like, the most hilarious thing ever. Like, what human being does both of those? Such a great take on that.
- [114:03]
A
Oh, he's so funny, man. Yeah, we're lucky, dude. We're part of a really cool group of people right now. You know, it's a very unusual time that the mainstream has lost all of its power of influence on people. It still puts out information, it still puts out shows, but they're trying to look like you. But their funk downstick. That Jake Tapper thing was so crazy. I was like, what are you doing? Are you doing a podcast now? Like, what are you doing?
- [114:31]
B
It's. Oh, it's such a perfect, like, little microcosm, though, of, like, it's almost painful. Like, I'm like, guys, just. Can you hire me? I mean, like, I would explain this to you.
- [114:41]
A
No, it wouldn't work either, because they're so trained. It's like, if you get a dog and that dog has been maybe a. Yeah, a cat might be a better example. If you've never had a litter box in the house and the cat's been pissing all over the carpet, you are always gonna have that cat piss on the carpet. That's what that cat does. You're not gonna fix them. If your entire life you've been spitting out nonsense from a teleprompter, and now all of a sudden you have to be yourself. You've been functioning in a world of executives and producers where everybody goes over every little thing you say. And do you 100% read things you know aren't true? Or at least partially mics for, like, everything?
- [115:22]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah. Their whole setup is they're all trying to look like podcasters.
- [115:27]
A
Wait a minute. They put mics out like podcasters? That's crazy. Imagine if they think that's all it takes.
- [115:33]
B
Well, this is. But. But, Joe, talk about completely missing the point, right?
- [115:37]
A
It's just.
- [115:38]
B
Just fundamentally missing it is that they go. They actually go, okay, so all of these people have left, you know, watching cable news in droves. And now they. A lot of people listen to podcasts. They'll listen to you or Theo Vaughn or whoever it might be. And the. A huge reason, right, why people, a huge reason why you've been number one for so long now is because however anyone feels about you, you're authentic. And it's very hard to deny that. One of the biggest questions I get when people meet me, if I do meet and greet after shows or something, it's, what's Joe Rogan like? Is a question I get all the time. Cause we're buddies and I've been on the show a lot of times, and people love you. And they'll go, what's Joe Rogan like? And I always tell them the same thing. I go, you already know. You already know who he is. He's that guy. And then offstage, he's that guy. You know what I mean? That's who he is. And people like that. People like that. Whatever you think about Theo Vaughn, he's telling. He's authentic. He's being himself. That's who he is.
- [116:37]
A
Well, that's why it works.
- [116:38]
B
And because you guys in the corporate media are all professional liars and have lied to the American people about the last 17 crises, they don't trust you anymore. And so then their reaction to that is, you go, well, what if we pretended to be podcasters? You're like, no, you dummy. That's the whole thing. This is just proving further how inauthentic you are, having meetings on this.
- [117:02]
A
This.
- [117:02]
B
100%. Podcasters, 100%. They do, dude. They all. This was to me, despite the fact that I, you know, and people give me shit about voting for Donald Trump, and they could say, I should have known better and whatever. I was a huge critic of him in his first term, and I'm a huge critic of him in his second term. But the best thing about Donald Trump winning in 24. And I did predict this, right? I'm not always the best with predictions. I'm pretty good on issues, I think, but I'm not great at predictions. They're tough. But the best. The best thing about Donald Trump winning was that the corporate media finally admitted it. They had been pretending for so long. I remember we used to joke about. I remember coming on, like, a few years ago, and we would joke about how Brian Stelter would always. Whenever he talked about you, he would always kind of go, like, the fringe Joe Rogan, like, as if he's the mainstream and you are the fringe. As if the numbers aren't readily available to all of us. That we could be like, your show has like 200,000 listening and his has 20 million. So how is he the fringe? And you're the mainstream?
- [117:58]
A
I think.
- [117:58]
B
But they would pretend. Well, they. Maybe they believed it, but that 24 the election, that's when they all admitted it. And then the talking point moved to, we need to find our own Joe Rogan. The Democrats need to find a Joe Rogan.
- [118:11]
A
Whatever.
- [118:11]
B
Remember, that was like. So they kind of admitted that, oh, the podcasts have become the new mainstream and we are the fringe.
- [118:18]
A
Right. But the dumb part of that statement was, you already had me. You fucking idiots just lost your mind. Mind. I'm not right and I'm not left.
- [118:26]
B
Yeah.
- [118:26]
A
I think both of them suck. And I think the adherence to the ideologies that the left supports or the right supports is out of their. You got to be out of your mind. Whether it's these crackpot Christian nationalists that think that this whole war is a way to get Jesus to return on a white horse.
- [118:43]
B
Yeah.
- [118:43]
A
Do you see those guys that were talking. Yeah. During the. The readiness meeting.
- [118:47]
B
That.
- [118:48]
A
I think that's nuts, too. So I think the woke shit and all the chaos of the fucking last four years of having a completely open border and the justifications of all these things, that's nuts, too. I'm not on either buddy side, anyone's side, but I think the Democrats aren't ever going to get someone like me because I'm not with either or I'm not with either or I'm with whoever fucking makes sense. And no one makes sense until AI comes along.
- [119:11]
B
I think they're going to do a really good job.
- [119:13]
A
President Perplexity is going to run this country fairly in balance.
- [119:18]
B
I'm willing to try it at this point.
- [119:20]
A
I'm dead serious, man. As long as it doesn't, like, do something to harm people. As long as, like, that's its goal is just to manage society.
- [119:29]
B
It's a big if that you got there. But yes, if we can get that. Well, but what you just said, I think is really. Well, this. This is something that I'm encouraged by, is that I think what you just said there. I really do believe that you speak for super majorities of the American people. And that's why even though Donald Trump has shattered his coalition by lying us into this stupid war on behalf of a foreign country, that coalition is still ripe for someone else to pick it up and run with it. And that's kind of what I'm hoping. I hope Thomas Massie runs for president. I think, by the way, they're doing a big money bomb for Thomas Massie on March 30th. And I think him winning reelection in Congress is like the most important political election in the country right now. Now, because he's done nothing wrong except actually stand up for America first and for all the stuff that Donald Trump and Tulsi Gabbard and all these people ran on and he's gotten the Israel lobby and the Adelsons, but I repeat myself, have been pouring millions of dollars into his race to try to unseat him for the crime of not going along with the Epstein cover up and not going along with another stupid war and having some, like, fiscal sanity. So I hope he wins.
- [120:35]
A
Imagine those. Imagine those being three negatives that people are saying, he's not maga.
- [120:41]
B
Yeah, well, then, okay, but it's MAGA then. Well, if that's like, I don't know, like, my position is always like, if you're saying, if not supporting covering up the Epstein files or not supporting a stupid war of choice, a war of aggression on behalf of Israel means I'm not maga, then okay, I'm not maga. I don't, I'm not attached to the, you know the phrase make America great again, I don't care, then fine, but that phrase sucks.
- [121:06]
A
Here's the thing. Thing, like, first of all, America is great. Make America greater. I'm down, but make America great again. And then it becomes a movement of a bunch of dorks, because a lot of them are dorks. A lot of them, these really weird, uninteresting, unintelligent people that have got something they cling to. And there's a lot of people that are just real, genuine patriots. And they're all lumped into this one group. And you got to accept the dorks too, that like, the concept of making America great is a great idea. But as soon as you have a team and you allow anybody to join up, you've. You don't even have tryouts for your team. So you've got a bunch of dip shits that are running around spouting out opinions and you have to go along with them because they're maga. And then you've got bots online that are probably from Indonesia or Russia or wherever and they're pretending they're MAGA and they're saying crazy. So that's a part of MAGA too. You've fucked up by becoming A part of a group.
- [122:06]
B
Yeah.
- [122:06]
A
Whether it's a Republican group, a Democrat group, a MAGA group, a fucking woke group, whatever it is you fucked up by being in a group.
- [122:15]
B
Yeah. What is. George Carlin said people are great as individuals.
- [122:19]
A
Yeah.
- [122:19]
B
But when they get in a group, man, they're the worst things in the world. And that's why it should be about the, like the issues. It should be about your principles and what you believe in. And that's. And you should be like, look, like I've said many nice things about Tulsi Gabbard over the years and I was extremely critical of her over since last summer and to now because I think she's lying us into a war, which is the war that she was always opposed to, the one, the one she sold no war with Iran T shirts.
- [122:49]
A
How is she lying us into this war?
- [122:51]
B
So.
- [122:51]
A
Well, because that's a big statement.
- [122:52]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I know and it's true. So last summer. So Tulsi Gabbard had given her, as the Director of National Intelligence does every year, they give their annual threat assessment. Then she testified before Congress about it and she. It was very clear in her annual threat assessment that Iran was not attempting to build nuclear weapons, that they had not yet made the political decision to attempt to build nuclear weapons, let alone like are actually going for it. And she testified before Congress saying the same thing. And then after negotiating, while they were negotiating, Israel sneak attacks them. Then she had some post where she goes, iran could be weeks or months away from nuclear weapons. Which is like. Was total bullshit. It made absolutely no sense.
- [123:39]
A
Let me see what the post says. Sure.
- [123:41]
B
This is from, if you could find it. This is from last. It must have been last June.
- [123:44]
A
Right. But is that a fact? So if they're enriching uranium up to 60% and they just have to. To enrich it further for the ability to use it in nuclear weapons, that is a couple weeks away.
- [123:55]
B
No, but not before. It would be to build a bomb and to make it deliverable. I think all the experts say at least a couple years. But the point aside from that is that at the time, and this is over now, but at the time, Iran was still members of the jcpoa. They were still in it. So it's like, what is that? This is the Iran deal that Obama got us into. And Obama, horrible on foreign policy, the butcherer of Libya and Syria and Yemen, and he surged in Afghanistan, but in Iran he made a deal with them. And the deal. But it wasn't just with the US And Iran. It also involved Russia and France and England and there were other countries involved in it, too. And the JCPOA said that Iran couldn't enrich above. I think it was 3 to 5% or something like that. And they were staying in it. And it created a new inspections regime which ran. So they were having full inspections. They weren't enriched. But the deal also said that if America gets out of the deal, they can enrich up to higher. So when America got out of the deal, they started enriching.
- [124:55]
A
And when did America get out of the deal?
- [124:57]
B
Donald Trump tore it up in his first term. I wanna say 2017 or 2018.
- [125:02]
A
And then they immediately started enriching?
- [125:03]
B
No, they went up a little bit and then I think there were a couple Israeli attacks and then they went up to enriching at 60%. But so the reason we knew they were enriching up to 60% is because they were still members of the JCPOA with an inspections regime who was going in there and saying they're enriching up to 60%. Right.
- [125:19]
A
How much do you actually know about enriching uranium and what it takes to turn into a bomb? Let's. Let's read what she says. New intelligence confirm what POTUS has stated numerous times. Iran's nuclear facilities have been destroyed.
- [125:31]
B
I think this is after. This isn't the right one.
- [125:33]
A
This is.
- [125:33]
B
Her tweet was before.
- [125:34]
A
This is from June.
- [125:36]
B
Yeah. This would have been just shortly before
- [125:37]
A
this, but recently her tweet was before we hit Fordo. Yeah, this is June 25th. There's a recent one, though. Oh, edited June 25th. Yeah, but it seems like it was still edited the day it was posted.
- [125:52]
B
Probably.
- [125:52]
A
Can you go to her page? And because she doesn't tweet a lot. She's not a psycho. She's not one of those. If she tweets, it's generally something important or someone from our team is. So is this the hold on Was above that? Overwhelmingly elected by the. Click on that show more. I think that's it.
- [126:15]
B
Well, this is what she testified to Congress this time. I was referring to a different one from. But I also think this is a lie. I mean, for her to say that the President determines what is an imminent threat or is not.
- [126:28]
A
Not.
- [126:29]
B
No. Either there is an imminent threat or there is not one. This is like saying the President determines the weather.
- [126:34]
A
Right, Right, right, right. But. But you're taking her words out of context. She's saying something that's factually correct. As our commander in chief he is responsible for determining what is and is not an imminent threat. That is true. And whether or not to take action he deems necessary to protect the safety and security of our troops, the American people, in our country. That's just an actual fact.
- [126:54]
B
Okay, yeah, enough. But when she testified before Congress, they asked her, like, they asked her point blank a bunch of times about this, and then she goes, that's not my job to determine what's an imminent threat. That's the job of the president. And if he says it is, then it is.
- [127:08]
A
Okay, so look at this here. Initially, she's contradicting Trump, saying that Iran did not rebuild after the 2025 strikes. Contradicting Trump. So this is also from Time magazine. So she's saying that. Now, what you're saying that she said earlier was a lie. Is not a lie, dude, because that is actually his.
- [127:28]
B
Well, I was referring to that.
- [127:29]
A
I understand, but you did say that was a lie, which she said was a lie.
- [127:32]
B
Okay, fair enough. That was not a lie.
- [127:34]
A
But it was. But it is avoidantly, actually. Correct. And if you're in a position like she's in, where you've got that guy breathing down your neck and you're forced to make a statement, you've got to tread very carefully on this tight rope that you're walking.
- [127:49]
B
Okay, fine. But let's just say hypothetically, that you know for a fact that Iran did not pose an imminent threat. And then that's your answer when you're asked if they did. Fine, it's not a lie, but it
- [128:00]
A
is
- [128:02]
B
very misleading, to say the least.
- [128:05]
A
How much. Okay, hold on. Intel Chief Gabbard declines to say if Iran posed an imminent threat to the U.S. she declined to say on her own, personally only, but she. This is the congressional testimony.
- [128:16]
B
Yes, yes, yes. I think this is what I was referring to here. And she does at one point say that it's not her job to make that determination, which I do think is her entire job.
- [128:26]
A
It's interesting.
- [128:27]
B
Look, maybe I'm being a little harsh by saying lying in that example. And fair enough, to your point there, like, that technically is a true statement. I do think it's very misleading. And I do think that she really was the one who advocated against this specific war for the reasons that we're seeing unfold right now. And I do think. I get your point. It's a very tough tightrope to walk. The options are essentially, I think, to do what Joe Kent did and resign or to stay on and support the thing. I mean, I think it's kind of hard to thread that needle.
- [128:56]
A
Right. Do you think that there is any value in being one of the few reasonable voices that has his ear if ultimately it is his responsibility to determine what's an imminent threat and what is? Not. Not. I would imagine that she gets access to most of the same classified information that he does as the Director of National Intelligence? I don't know, though. I don't know how it works. But what can she do other than try to be a voice of reason if ultimately this guy is going to do what he wants to do.
- [129:29]
B
Right.
- [129:30]
A
And he's going to do also what Israel wants to do. Clearly. And he's talked about. About it, you know, and also in his first term. I'll never forget this conversation that he had with Steve Hilton, because I think it was one of the first times since I remember I've seen a president say Steve Hilton. By the way, I've been friends with him for 12 or 13 years. Met him and his family in Maui on the beach. When my daughter's really young and his kids really young, they became friends. We've hung out together, vacation together. He's a sweetheart of a guy. I love that guy. And. And when he was interviewing Trump, Trump said that there is a military industrial complex and these guys want to go to war.
- [130:08]
B
Yep.
- [130:09]
A
And we were like, what? This is. You're just saying that. Like, you're just saying that. It's one of the many reasons why a lot of people liked him, because he would do things like that where he would completely break protocol and just, hey, let me know. Let me let you know. Let me inform you, there's a bunch of people that want to go to war, and they're pushing me all the time to go to war. That's what they want.
- [130:33]
B
It was so crazy, dude. Because also, even Eisenhower, when he coined the term, it was in his farewell address to the nation. He was literally like, this is my last stop. And then I'm leaving. Trump was just in the middle of his presidency, and he goes, all of them want war. They all want me to be in war all the time. If it was up to them, we'd always be at war. And I do, you know, now, look, that was crazy. I thought. Actually, the one to me that was even crazier was, if you remember when Bill O'Reilly was interviewing him and he's talking about Vladimir Putin, and he goes, he's like, oh, well, you won't. You know, at the time, Donald Trump, which he had run on, he was saying, we should have detente with Russia. He goes, like, why do we, you know, we have all the nuclear weapons. Yeah. He goes, he goes, putin's a killer. You want to have a detente with a killer? And he goes, we got a lot of killers, too. And then he goes, whoa, whoa, what do you mean, we got a lot of killers, too? And he goes, what was Iraq? What was that? We got a lot of killers on our side, too. And then Bill O'Reilly's like, well, I mean, Iraq was a mistake. But he goes, yeah, we got a lot of killers, too. And I love that, by the way. I mean, that was a.
- [131:31]
A
That's breaking protocol.
- [131:33]
B
Yes, yes. Well, I think this is kind of, I think one of the main reasons why the establishment revolted against Trump the way they did. There's something very scary to the powers that be about a guy who, like, by his very nature, like, I don't even think he's capable of not letting things slip.
- [131:53]
A
Right.
- [131:53]
B
You know what I mean? Like, he's just. That's who he is. And that was a big thing that people really didn't like about him. Very interesting to me is that so many of the Never Trumpers have come to define his presidency. Like, if you remember back in 2016, the, the, the war hawk kind of Israel Firster, Republican crowd, the neocons and all them, they hated Donald Trump, hated him with a passion. Ben Shapiro was a Never Trumper. He said because of his deeply held principles, he could never support Donald Trump. Mark Levin was a Never Trumper. All of National Review, all of them. And now they are the biggest Trump supporters ever, as kind of, he's blown up the coalition that got him elected. So it's kind of interesting that they all, you know, you know, but again,
- [132:49]
A
tell those guys to all stay off Twitter. There's not one thing that they ever say that makes them look better. They get in these silly fucking. They just feel like they're gonna make some stupid fucking statement and then refute a couple of people and don't understand the crowd reaction when you've got. Got thousands of people tweeting against you now. Thousands just attacking you, destroying you, posting memes, posting videos. You said this and you said that, you piece of.
- [133:16]
B
It's amazing.
- [133:17]
A
It's crazy.
- [133:19]
B
I gotta say, I do love that dynamic of it. There's. There's something.
- [133:23]
A
That's why I stay off of it.
- [133:24]
B
Yeah, yeah, well, that's.
- [133:25]
A
You.
- [133:25]
B
Look, there's problems with it, but there is something about that dynamic now that was just never true. In the past where it's like, look, I'm not saying it's perfect. And obviously there's bots and there's things like that. So it's not like a. But the people kind of get a voice in a way that they never had before.
- [133:40]
A
Right.
- [133:40]
B
And there is something kind of cool about that.
- [133:43]
A
100%. I love it. But it's not all the people either. It's a lot of fake people. There's a lot of like state sponsored actors.
- [133:50]
B
No, that's. That's true. That's true. There's manipulation, but there was always manipulation in the old order.
- [133:55]
A
Also, do you see this YouTube bot farm that they just busted?
- [133:59]
B
No.
- [133:59]
A
They busted this. This warehouse had cell phones all rigged up for YouTube views where people just, they would just hire a company and say, hey, you know, part of the problem, it's not getting enough views. I'd really like to blow the up and get to number one. And you hire them and they could get views.
- [134:20]
B
Interesting. Yeah, well, that's also, I mean, I guess if you advertisements. That's legit fraud.
- [134:25]
A
100.
- [134:25]
B
That's like actual fraud.
- [134:27]
A
Yeah, 100%. And kind of a weird loophole where I don't think it's illegal.
- [134:32]
B
Yeah, that's gotta be. So there's a spot. It's got to be some type of fraud though, if you're like, if you're intentionally doing that. Like maybe if you didn't know.
- [134:39]
A
Right.
- [134:39]
B
You could.
- [134:40]
A
But, but listen, Twitter pays people. X pays people to post. So you pay based on engagement. Right. That's how you get paid. So you farm out engagement. So like, what percentage of what we're interacting with is just horseshit?
- [134:57]
B
Well, I got. So what does it say here?
- [134:59]
C
I know this story just happened. A guy got arrested to plead guilty because he made. I think, I think what happens. He made a fake band.
- [135:06]
A
Yeah.
- [135:06]
C
Spots to.
- [135:07]
A
Yeah, he had an AR generated song. He got.
- [135:10]
B
Oh, wow.
- [135:10]
A
It played billions of times. In an effort to mimic the genuine streaming activity of real consumers, Smith pled guilty today. Conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Wire fraud.
- [135:20]
C
Check this out though. I heard a similar story in Japan
- [135:22]
A
where, first of all, let me stop you right there. Michael Smith generated thousands of fake songs using artificial intelligence. Hey, hey, hey. Stop talking shit about AI music because it's not fake. Those are real songs. Don't say fake songs.
- [135:36]
B
They.
- [135:36]
A
They're real songs. And some of them are fucking bangers. Unfortunately. Some of them are really good.
- [135:43]
C
You're gonna like what I was gonna say then. There's a guide Was doing this in Japan and it got viral, and so he hired people to be the band.
- [135:52]
B
And now the band is a real
- [135:53]
C
band, kind of popular.
- [135:56]
B
So AI. AI is creating jobs in this case.
- [135:59]
A
Yeah.
- [135:59]
B
Well, you know.
- [136:00]
A
So Shifty Brent rules, though. You can never create him in real life. He's the guy who does the 50 cent ones.
- [136:06]
B
Oh, yeah. I've seen. I've seen quite a few.
- [136:08]
A
Guy was. First of all, that guy was really. He'd have lungs like a ultra marathon runner. Because the flow, like, how can you even have air to say what you're saying? Well, he. Someone was saying that to me. She was like, I think you couldn't do this. And my argument was, Eminem. I was like, yeah, you could. You just have to be wicked at it. Like, Eminem. Like Eminem in his prime. That motherfucker gets spit in a way where you like. I can't believe he's still talking.
- [136:30]
B
Yeah, it was. I remember there were a couple of his things where I was like, I don't. Can he actually do this? And then I saw him do it live, and not like I was there, but saw it on YouTube, like, where you're like, oh, he can actually rap.
- [136:41]
A
Like, recently. Yeah, I saw him recently. It was fucking great. He's still great. He's thin. He looks good. Yeah, he was killing it, man. He was killing it. But those. The speed in which. That he can rap made me go. Maybe AI is not bullshitting, but, you know, 50 Cent himself was like, much more casual in his delivery.
- [136:59]
B
Yes.
- [136:59]
A
You know, and it was much slower. This Shifty Brent AI. This episode is brought to you by Threat Locker. Data breaches are happening more frequently than ever. And it's not because of sophisticated tactics. Attackers are using the same methods and exploiting the same vulnerabilities. What's changed is speed and scale. Reacting to breaches can leave you exhausted, constantly chasing threats instead of preventing them. That's where Threat Locker comes in. With Threat Locker, zero trust, you only allow what you need and block everything else. By default, you control what runs, when, where, and how, blocking ransomware before it executes. Because no matter how you respond, a fast response simply isn't fast enough. Visit threatlocker.com jre to learn more. This episode is brought to you by armra. Every week, there's some new wellness hack that people swear by. And after a while, you start thinking, why do we think we can just outsmart our bodies? That's why armor colostrum caught my attention. It's something the body already recognizes. And has hundreds of these specialized nutrients for gut stuff, immunity, metabolism, etc. I first noticed it working around training, especially workout recovery. Most stuff falls off, but I am still taking this if you want to try. Armor is offering my listeners 30 off plus two free gifts go to Armor. My version is like, damn, that was a real person.
- [138:38]
B
That'd be pretty great.
- [138:39]
A
He would be the greatest artist I got.
- [138:40]
B
There was a guy, I can't remember his name, but just like the other day, some guy, he works for Fox News and he came out and had a whole post about me. And he goes, he goes, dave Smith's account is clearly boded by foreign like. And I'm almost like. When he said that, I was almost kind of like, there's a weird thing. Like I know I've never paid for anything, but I don't know, you know what I mean? Like what someone else might have done or something like that. But I asked him. So I replied to him and I go, wait, what evidence do you have of this? And then his post was that he said, because I had 900,000 followers on Twitter, but I'm playing Laugh Boston this weekend. And he goes, that's a 300 seat venue.
- [139:23]
A
I played that obviously times too well. I was like, first of all, he doesn't understand.
- [139:26]
B
You just don't get comedy clubs, dude. Like, this is not. And first of all, I'm doing five shows there by the way. Come on out this weekend.
- [139:33]
A
Great club, great club, great club.
- [139:35]
B
One of my favorite weekends of last year.
- [139:37]
A
It's a fucking great room.
- [139:38]
B
But I was like, look man, I sold out all the shows last year hoping to do the same this year. But I go, that is any. Like, I just know the industry of stand up comedy pretty well. And I was like, anybody who you're saying would be selling more than this, so what, selling out big theaters or selling out a stadium or something like that, that all the people who do that have more followers than me. So like he's not even right about the ratio of it or whatever.
- [140:00]
A
He doesn't understand numbers.
- [140:02]
B
But then I kind of like I grilled him on it a bit more. Cuz listen, I'm kind of like you. Like when you were talking about suing CNN back in the day for slandering you, like I'm never actually gonna do it, but I don't mind saying it, you know what I mean? So I tagged Fox News and I go, hey Fox News, shouldn't you have some evidence if you're gonna make a claim? Like, I'm clearly bodied by foreign influence or whatever.
- [140:23]
A
Fox News actually said it.
- [140:25]
B
The guy works for Fox News.
- [140:26]
A
Was he on Fox News?
- [140:27]
B
No, he's at.
- [140:28]
A
Just on Twitter.
- [140:29]
B
Twitter? But he's like a Fox News contributor or something like that.
- [140:31]
A
Right, But I'm a UFC contributor. It wouldn't be like the ufc.
- [140:35]
B
Yeah, I guess. I guess that's true. So I don't know, maybe it would just be him. And either way, I'm not suing anyone.
- [140:39]
A
Gotcha.
- [140:39]
B
But I did want him to just. I go, just. Just admit you don't have any evidence for this. Like, just retract that.
- [140:44]
A
Well, here's the thing. I would agree that your account is bottom because you're very controversial public figure. So I'm sure. I'm sure my account is bought it too.
- [140:53]
B
Right.
- [140:53]
A
I'm sure Jamie's account is bought it 100%. Right.
- [140:59]
B
I think Jamie might be a bot himself.
- [141:01]
A
We're all boded, man. The. If you look at, you know, we've brought up this up a million times, but there was an FBI, former FBI analyst who analyzed Twitter before the purchase, and it was his take that as much as 80% might be artificial. Now, this is back then.
- [141:18]
B
Yeah.
- [141:18]
A
Before Elon purchased it. I think they've done. They've taken some steps to try to ensure. One of the things is you have to. You could go to the person's page. You could see what country they're posting from.
- [141:29]
B
Yes, I like that. Yeah.
- [141:30]
A
Because there's a lot of people that are like, pro America. And you're like, hey, man, you're in Pakistan. Yeah. Like, what's going on here? This is kind of kooky. So there's a lot of that going on.
- [141:38]
B
I've had. I've had before where people go like, Dave, you always say Israel's trying to lie us into war, but this is America. We decide what war we're going to fight. And then you click it. Israel, David, Israel.
- [141:50]
A
At least we're getting steps to know those. Listen, if it wasn't for Elon Musk, we would be fucked. I've said this before. I'll say it again. History will go back and look at his purchasing Twitter. And it has changed the course of communication in this country for the better. I know a lot of you thought, oh, my God, the racism is up and all this stuff up. That's people. That's the Internet. That is an accurate representation. Representation of people. It's not good, but it's also accurate. And the only way that's going to change is if the Other voices are more compelling, and at least now they have an opportunity to do that.
- [142:30]
B
Yeah, well, and you. And you have to kind of engage in this, whether. And I'm not saying you have to be on Twitter or something like that, but I'm just saying, like, if you want to. You know, I would love to very much to get to a place where, like, you're like, hey, let's all agree that we're not on board with the bigotry stuff. And I mean this, like, whether it's against white men or whether it's against black men or whether it's against Jews or whether it's against Muslims or whatever. And I see a whole lot of all of that, and I'd love to move past that. I also would, like. I wish there was a way that, like, Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson could have, like, a cool conversation. You know what I mean? And not like. Not like, be like. But, well, look, it's like, I wish
- [143:10]
A
Santa Claus and Jesus would come meet me for dinner.
- [143:13]
B
Well, both would be nice. The latter is more likely, I think, too, at this point. You know, I had a weird thing. I don't know if you saw this, but Ben Shapiro had. He made this video about, like. About Piers Morgan and, like, going at him over having me on the show. And he went. This whole thing. And. And so he says to me, or he said, you know, he insults me a few times or whatever. And then he goes, now, I can hear Dave Smith right now. And his response to this is, debate me, bro. Which, fair enough. That kind of is always my. I only have one tool in my toolkit. Like, right, come, let's podcast about this. I don't know. Like, this is what I do. I talk.
- [143:54]
A
He's not willing to do that.
- [143:55]
B
He goes, no, because you're like. So he said, because I don't debate such intellectually dishonest people or something like that, Which I thought was a weird criticism of me. Like, you could say I'm wrong, but I do believe the shit I say.
- [144:08]
A
Yeah. I don't think you're in the. I don't think in any demonstration of any. I don't think there's a single moment that I could point to that. I think that you've been intellectually dishonest. I think that is, like, factually incorrect.
- [144:21]
B
Yeah, well, that's.
- [144:23]
A
That is gaslighting. You are very honest. You're a very honest person.
- [144:28]
B
Well, thank you. I try to.
- [144:29]
A
No, you are. It's one of the things I love about you. You're Honest about your fuck ups. You're honest about what you're incorrect about and what bothered you about things that you've said. You're very honest. So that's a silly thing to say. That's total gaslighting.
- [144:43]
B
Well, it's also. Well, I look at it like this and I don't. You know, honestly, like, obviously if Ben Shapiro wanted to debate, I would, I
- [144:50]
A
would do it, everybody, before all this
- [144:52]
B
shit went down, you go, dude, you can't say I'm beyond the pale when you're known for debating 19 year olds who are confused about their gender. You know what I'm saying? Now, I don't know if you remember this, and this to me I actually think is very interesting, but I don't know if you remember this, but on this show Ben was on years ago and this is years before October 7th or anything like that, but he was saying, he was talking about Israel and his defense for Israel, and you go, that's interesting. Would you ever debate someone who's a critic of Israel just generically not about a specific person? And he goes, absolutely, I'd be happy to do that. And the thing about guys like that is that particularly with Ben Shapiro, for the last two and a half years, his number one issue, Israel has been the number one topic of conversation. And in that time, Israel's support has been bleeding. I mean, just like to a level you couldn't have imagined, you couldn't have imagined two and a half years ago to go, this'll be a pro Palestinian country. That was unthinkable. And it's become that. And forget me, there's way better people than me. Ben Shapiro debated no one. He never once had a conversation with a competent critic of Israel. And listen, people saw that, people noticed that. And so I kind of in a weird way feel like it's like, hey, dude, I don't care if you do the debate with me or not. I wish, I don't think we ever can. I wish there would be a world where we could have a good faith conversation like a guy with me and Ben Shapiro, right? But he refused to do it with anyone anyway. So while you're smearing everybody who's a critic of Israel, you're not willing to like you. Listen, there are some people who don't debate. But he branded himself as the debate guy, right?
- [146:29]
A
If you don't like Dave, sit down with Scott Horton.
- [146:31]
B
Sure, absolutely. Scott Horton's way smarter than me and knows way more shit than me anyway, so talk to him about it, dude. I mean, he's a better guy.
- [146:37]
A
I think you're saying that this is the reason why you won't do it. That sounds crazy. Because wouldn't you want to debate someone who's intellectually dishonest because it would be so easy to refute them with facts.
- [146:45]
B
Exactly. So come.
- [146:46]
A
It would be perfect. It's like dating. It's like sparring. A guy who knows fake kung fu, you know, he thinks he's got a death touch. And you're Dustin Poirier, you're like, oh, yeah, bro. Lace the gloves up. Let's go.
- [146:56]
B
Well, that was kind of my thing with. With the Douglas Murray thing, too, where it was like, at a certain point, you're like, dude, you can't just say you're an expert and I'm not an expert. Demonstrate that then, that if that's the case, then it should be easy for you to just chop me up in front of the world right now.
- [147:11]
A
Some things that you had to correct him on.
- [147:13]
B
Yeah, yeah. He just got it wrong.
- [147:16]
A
And you could see, like, the tremor in his eyes, like, oh, oh, shit. Like, they don't want to give up that ground because they're playing a very different game. And the game is not, let's be intellectually honest about what we think is going on and what we think is good and bad about what's going on. Versus I'm trying to win.
- [147:31]
B
Yeah.
- [147:32]
A
And one of the ways I try to win is by I can appeal to authority. You're not an expert. You know, you're not a. This. You're not a professor. You don't. You've never been there. Yeah. That kind of shit. That, that. That is all like, hack ass, fake kung fu moves, you know, you're going to try on Francis Ngannou. You know what I mean?
- [147:52]
B
Yeah. Like, okay, so good luck with that.
- [147:54]
A
Not that I'm comparing you to Francis. That's very disrespectful to Francis.
- [148:00]
B
Certainly not when it comes to fighting. Much rather fight me.
- [148:02]
A
This Ronda Rousey card. They got Francis fighting Philip Lynz. Philip Lynz, who's a light heavyweight in the ufc, and the UFC cut him. And he's fighting the scariest heavyweight who's ever walked the face of the earth. I mean, next to primetime Alistair over. Over him. Prime time. Alistair Overeem, when he was ubereem, I think is even scarier. I think, because he was way skillful. Like, he was terrifying when he was on the sauce.
- [148:25]
B
Yes. But even Francis. Francis was the thing where scarier Francis almost Has a thing where it just seems like you. You have to fight a perfect. Perfect against him.
- [148:36]
A
Yep.
- [148:37]
B
Which Stipe Miocic did the first fight,
- [148:39]
A
their first fight, he took a lot of shots. That's the thing about Stipe. Like, Stipe could take a shot and
- [148:44]
B
you would see, he'd, like, jab him and he'd be rocked, but he'd still get the takedown. And still. And he beat him.
- [148:49]
A
He beat him with skill, strategy, experience, everything. But in the second one, DC said it best. He goes, a patient Francis is a fucking terrifying thing, dude.
- [148:58]
B
My favorite. My favorite commentary ever in a fight was when. When DC said, it was just so hilarious to me, it was so real, like, he just meant it. But it was when. When Francis Ngannou fought. Fought Gamma, and he grappled a little bit in that fight, which we had never seen him do before. But there was one point where there he was on the ground and he, like, took his back or something like that. Like, he passed his guard or he took his back or something like that. And D.C. just goes, oh, my God, he's doing jiu jitsu now. It was like he was speaking of a robot who just learned how to feel feelings. He goes, oh, my God, it's learning, it's advancing. This is so terrifying that, like, edit
- [149:35]
A
a guy that's that much of a destroyer, that learns how to take backs and strangle people, too, and control you from the back and blast you unconscious, like he did with that dude in the PFL in his last fight, took his back and just blasted him into the netherworld.
- [149:48]
B
Yeah, that's. That's scary.
- [149:49]
A
He's the scariest guy that's ever fought in the ufc.
- [149:52]
B
Props to that dude for taking the fight.
- [149:54]
A
Natural clean guy, I should say that.
- [149:55]
B
Okay.
- [149:56]
A
With a cavity.
- [149:56]
B
Fair enough. Fair enough.
- [149:57]
A
You know, because we only got a couple Alistair Overeem fights where he was ubereem. The big one being Brock Lesnar. That was the big one.
- [150:04]
B
And of course, the other fight on that card that they added, which is huge, is the Nate Diaz.
- [150:08]
A
Well, here was my point.
- [150:09]
B
Nate Diaz is fighting. I just. Yes, I'm paying. Whatever you're charging. I'm going to be wherever it is.
- [150:15]
A
And it's Mike Perry.
- [150:16]
B
Great fight.
- [150:17]
A
Bad motherfucker. Yep, that's a great fight. But my point is they also have Ro Bellis Despain, who's on that card, who's a 6 foot 7 Cuban taekwondo expert, who's a heavyweight. He's a knockout artist. Like, why didn't they have him he's fighting Junior Dos Santos, and Junior Dos Santos is, you know, he's had a lot. He was an all time great, but he had a long career and he's had some bad knockouts and some wars, too. Bad wars. The wars with Cain. Velasquez took years off his life.
- [150:46]
B
It was almost criminal that they didn't stop both of those fights.
- [150:50]
A
Well, they were definitely horrible and terrible to watch. But the point is, Robeles is huge. He's a real heavyweight. He's a big, giant knockout artist. Like that would have been an interesting fight. Fight versus Francis. Big, super tall guy that's hard to hit.
- [151:04]
B
Yeah.
- [151:04]
A
And if it just is a striking fight. The problem with Robel is he got. He got exposed in his last UFC fight on the ground. He got beat up on his ground. Game's not that good. Could have gotten better. But on the feet, that's a little bit more interesting to me than Philip. Although Phillip's a skillful fighter. You know, he's just. He's used to fighting at light heavyweight. The UFC cuts him, and now all of a sudden he's fighting against Francis.
- [151:28]
B
Yeah, that's a little bit of a. A mismatch. But hey, I mean, you know, we've seen crazy happen.
- [151:34]
A
Felipe. I think it's pronounced Felipe. Felipe Lynns. But he's a good fighter. And it's not, it's not a bad fight in that sense, but it's like you're going up against a guy with a chip on his shoulder that they're paying $20 million. He's the lineal. I don't know what they're paying him. I'm just guessing, but he's the lineal heavyweight champion of the world, the real world. One, like, if you really, like, plotted out, no one beat him for the title, that's a, that's a crazy fight. It's like, that's how shallow the heavyweight division out is. Outside of the ufc, there's so few fights for you to get Francis for. There's so few fights in the UFC. I mean, the UFC's heavyweight division is a real mess.
- [152:14]
B
It's very hard to find gigantic men who are excellent fighters.
- [152:18]
A
I guess a lot in Russia. Okay. Yeah, there's. There's guys that are fighting in other countries that are really good that are coming up. It's just like, it's hard to get him over here. This Josh Hokutt, he's a bad wrestler dude who's crazy, who has these crazy speeches after the fight, puts on an American flag, bandana and he said, brittany Griner has a dick. Brittany Griner's a man. I forgot what he said, but he's just nuts. He's. But he's also, like, really smart about marketing.
- [152:44]
B
Who's the other guy? You. You talked about him several times. He's the. The Olympic wrestler guy.
- [152:49]
A
Oh, Gabe.
- [152:50]
B
Gabe, yeah.
- [152:51]
A
Gable. Gable. He's. Yeah, he's not in yet, though. He's not in. I had him on the podcast. He's not in the UFC yet.
- [152:56]
B
Yeah, but he's.
- [152:57]
A
When he's in the ufc, he's going to be a problem. Olympic gold medalist, elite wrestler, moves like a cat, £250, young, super dedicated, and just recently learned striking. And is people up with his hands.
- [153:13]
B
Yeah. And is picking it up quite quickly.
- [153:15]
A
And is a Jon Jones protege. So he's been being mentored by the goat and absorbing his mindset and how that guy's helping him. He's investing his time into training. If you're a young guy, you know what a boost of confidence. The greatest of all time says you're going to be the man. You're going to be the man. You just stick with this plan. And they're bringing him up the right way. He fought in dirty boxing. He fought some small MMA organizations. He's just, like, building up experience.
- [153:46]
B
Yeah. And there's never been a lot of. But there's not really. Right now in the heavyweight landscape, there isn't really like a Frank Mir or what's his name? Minotaur.
- [154:02]
A
Nogueira.
- [154:03]
B
Nogueira. Where there used to be these guys who were kind of known for fighting off their back. You know what I mean? Most heavyweights don't really like fighting off their back.
- [154:11]
A
Back.
- [154:11]
B
These. Even the guns who are really good at jiu jitsu. I also think just in general, fighting off your back is a lot harder than it used to be.
- [154:16]
A
Fabricio Verdum was the greatest. Yes.
- [154:18]
B
That's a great ex. He was incredible. But there aren't really that many guys like that. A lot of these guys, you take them down, they're in trouble. They're in trouble.
- [154:26]
A
Yeah. And when you got a guy like Gable, guess what? You're going to get taken down, and there's not a thing you can do about it. That is a next level.
- [154:36]
B
I just saw the one. One of his recent fights where he. He's finishing a double leg before he realized he knocked the guy out.
- [154:42]
A
It seemed like he kos him with a left hook. And he's so fast that as the guy's Collapsing on the way down, he shoots a double, connects, takes him to the ground while he's unconscious. So before the guy has a chance to drop, that's how fast he is. He's already on him, taking him down and pounds him out while he's already unconscious.
- [154:59]
B
Yeah. That was scary. That guy's a problem.
- [155:03]
A
He's a problem. And that's an American heavyweight motherfucker. We need one of those. We need some American champions. We're down.
- [155:09]
B
Get him in the White House.
- [155:10]
A
Yeah, I mean, are there any American champions right now? Who are the American champions? Mackenzie Dern is the straw weight champion, so she's technically an American, although her dad is a very famous Brazilian legend. Okay, yeah, Megaton Diaz is. Is her dad, and she was a Jiu jitsu, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu championship champion, but she is American, so she's a champion other than that. Who.
- [155:38]
B
Sean Strickland's fighting for the title.
- [155:41]
A
Kayla Harrison. That's right. Kayla's. So it's only women that are the Americans. Yeah. Look at that boy. You're gonna see a lot of those dudes with those beards coming over here. You gotta see a. Joshua Van is an American. That's right. You gotta see a lot of those dudes. That's a caveat, though. The Joshua Van. No disrespect for Joshua, because I think he's a awesome fighter, but he won that fight.
- [156:04]
B
We got to have a rematch on that one.
- [156:05]
A
That was a freak injury. I mean, he fell and dislocated his arm. It's a complete freak injury. And Pantoja still hasn't fully recovered from that. So it was pretty bad. Whatever. The. They said his shoulder dislocated and his elbow.
- [156:19]
B
Yeah, I remember hearing that afterward. It looked like it was just his
- [156:22]
A
elbow, but they said. The doctor said it was his shoulder. And so what it. What the thing about the elbow is. The elbow is a less complicated joint, right? And so when the elbow gets disloc. If someone just pulls on it, it can pop back into place. So, like saying that there's as long they didn't know what they're doing, Right. Because you don't want to do it. Like, Yuri Prohaska's team didn't rip his shoulder apart and then needed surgery. He probably needed surgery anyway. It was dislocating like that. It was probably loose. But the point is that, like, his elbow might have popped back into place by the time they brought him backstage. And that's when they realized his shoulder was. Because his shoulder probably hurt more Even.
- [157:00]
C
Right.
- [157:02]
B
That was unfortunate. Cuz that was a real interesting.
- [157:04]
A
Dislocate a lot, you know, and you know, sometimes people dislocate their shoulders and don't even realize they do.
- [157:11]
B
Oh, really?
- [157:12]
A
I. Apparently, according to my. The. This orthopedic surgeon that I went to back in the day, before I realized that stem cells could fix it, this guy was convincing me that I had to have surgery. And one of the things he said, do you know that your shoulder's been dislocated? And I said, it has. He goes, you didn't know? I go, no, no. He goes, how long. How many times you hurt your shoulder? I go, how much time you got? Sit down and talk about how many times I've been comorid. How many times I've been arm blocked, how many times have been caught in a triangle, how many times, you know, posting on the ground. I've jostled my shoulder. The good news is there have been no fracture or ligament injury. That's great. Oh, that's. Bahompa said that. So from that we have great expectations for his return, but the exact time frame is still unknown. Still needs a lot of physiotherapy, start moving his arm. Wow. Then he can go back to light training and then hard training. Bro, we got to get that guy down to fucking. The CPI in, you know, the. The cellular performance Institute that the UFC uses. Get that dude down to Tijuana.
- [158:10]
B
I'm worried about. I'm worried about the new model for the ufc, the Paramount model. I'm worried about the Warren around and the new UFC model. This is what keeps me up at night.
- [158:18]
A
I get it. So what are you worried about with the new UFC model?
- [158:21]
B
Look, I. I'm no genius, but it seems to me like I'm a hardcore fan of the ufc, right? So I was, you know, I order every pay per view, everyone, you know, and so every any Saturday, if I'm on the road in my green room, we're watching the ufc. If I'm not on the road, I'm either at home watching it, or I'm trying to go to the event if it's in town.
- [158:42]
A
Right?
- [158:43]
B
So then it's like, okay, ESPN is over. We're not doing that anymore. So then they're go, we're switching to Paramount. Now. I already had Paramount because, like, my kids like some shows on Paramount.
- [158:55]
A
Yep.
- [158:55]
B
So now Landman. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I watched Landman.
- [158:58]
A
Gracia.
- [159:00]
B
So, you know, so like, I have Paramount, plus I'm like, oh, okay. Well, that's Easy enough. And then I'm like, so wait a minute, hold on. So you tell me I just get everyone for free now. I just don't have to order pay per views anymore. And there's just something about that. Now, I'm not saying whether this is Paramount's mistake or the UFC's mistake or whatever, but just like, like the basics of business to me go, so you just had a loyal customer who's very happy to pay for every pay per view. And I'm just not now like this. Just on some level now I understand it's because Paramount gave him a whole bunch of money, but on some level, I go number one, I go, but how is this good for business if the customer no longer has to pay for a thing that I was happily paying for?
- [159:40]
A
Let me correct you.
- [159:40]
B
Okay, sure.
- [159:41]
A
First, all Paramount, the idea of doing this and investing $7 billion into the UFC over the next few years, the. The positive that they're going to get from that with loyal new customers is massive.
- [159:58]
B
So if you're introducing it to a whole new audience, if you're a loyal
- [160:01]
A
pay per view buyer, if you spend, what is it, 70 bucks for pay per view?
- [160:06]
B
I think something like that.
- [160:07]
A
So 70 bucks for this big time pay per view card, now you get it for free. You just have to pay for Paramount plus every month for the year. You're saving so much money.
- [160:17]
B
Sa yeah.
- [160:17]
A
So the amount of new people that are going to go, oh, this is awesome, I don't have to pay for pay per view anymore. I pay for Paramount Plus. And I get all these awesome shows too, because Paramount plus has a ton of new question.
- [160:29]
B
It's a show great deal for the consumer.
- [160:31]
A
You get roped in through that, and then you go looking around on Paramount plus and you stay a loyal subscriber. Library they have all these years with this new influx of viewers from the ufc, deal to build up more of a library, more shows, it's huge for business.
- [160:46]
B
Okay, fair enough.
- [160:47]
A
Take their app from where it is now and take their streaming model from where it is now and quadruple it over the next X amount of years.
- [160:54]
B
So they're okay. So for them, they're bringing in the whole UFC audience.
- [160:58]
A
And how many people would look at a pay per view card and look, I would buy every one of them. Even when I was working for the ufc, I would go on ESPN plus and I would buy them. Even though I was there, I was
- [161:10]
B
like, I want to be able to
- [161:10]
A
watch it in the gym when I get home. I'm gonna buy it. And so you've got all these people that were looking at those cards that were like, this one, I don't know. I don't know if that's worth 70 bucks. If you're on a budget.
- [161:24]
B
Yeah.
- [161:25]
A
And you looking at this one, you're like, who's fighting? Ah, nah, I'm gonna pass on this one. I'll watch it, you know, a couple weeks on ESPN plus, because you could just wait a few weeks. I don't know how long the time frame is, but you wait a few weeks and you watch it. This, you don't have to do that anymore. It's 10 bucks a month. What is Paramount Plus a month? How much does it cost?
- [161:42]
C
They upped it to maybe 12 or 13, but I'm not.
- [161:45]
A
Let's find out so we're accurate. But you're saving so much money.
- [161:49]
B
But also on espn, they charged you something like that too. Like you had to pay an ESPN fee and then you had to pay for each individual pay per view. So. No, listen, I'm saving a lot of money off.
- [162:00]
A
Okay, 13.99amonth or, or $139 a year for the ad free premium plan, which includes Showtime. New and former subscribers can currently get any monthly plan for 2.99amonth for the first two months. So for a new subscriber, you could try it out for two months for 299amonth and watch every UFC for 2.99amonth for two months. It's worth it. And then you're gonna get this huge influx of people that, you know, if you're on a budget, you're not gonna subscribe to Paramount. Plus, you already got Netflix. Netflix costs X amount of money. Maybe you got HBO Max. That's X amount of money. I can't afford Paramount, too. I don't want to pay another 10 bucks a month or $14 a month now.
- [162:42]
B
You just.
- [162:43]
A
It's easy. No pay per views.
- [162:46]
B
Yeah, they made. They made a lot of wives of hardcore fans happy, I'm sure, for that. Like, I don't have to buy these
- [162:52]
A
pay per views anymore.
- [162:53]
B
Yeah, they get the Paramount shows and they don't have to do that. All right, fair enough. I guess it's just in some ways, I guess, and I don't really have much of a mind for business. Business. But in some ways there's just a thing where it's like, we've always done it this way. Now we're doing it a whole new way.
- [163:07]
A
Yeah, but it's Been on streaming for the last few years.
- [163:10]
B
Yeah, that's.
- [163:10]
A
So it's always been on an app anyway. And then Paramount, you could get it on Apple tv, you can get it on Android tv, you can get it on all these different things. It's like, there's no reason to not have it. It's easy. It's just great for. As a business move for Paramount, it was a smart fucking move because you get this built in hardcore fan base now. Now, have some of the cards been lackluster? Yes. But guess what? That has always been the case.
- [163:35]
B
Yeah. And that's just a matter of time.
- [163:37]
A
Eventually, though, you watch Rose Namajunas vs Carla Esparza, there's been some fights back in the day that just weren't great. And there's been cards that even though they look good on paper, in reality, they weren't so fun.
- [163:51]
B
Yeah. But I also. I'm with you because I remember you used to say this back in the day all the time. But I am like a purist fan in MMA in the sense that, like, all of that is like, I don't care, like, feel like, oh, it's boring. You're like, it's the most exciting sport in the world on its worst day. Even in a fight, that's a bad fight. Because if you remember, the Frank Mir CRO Cop is a good example of this, where it was just a boring fight the entire fight, and then there's a spectacular knockout at the end of it. And even if that doesn't end up happening, you're always watching. Like, that could happen at any moment.
- [164:22]
A
It always can happen.
- [164:23]
B
I also am with you. I believe in, like, I don't believe in stand up. I don't think anyone should ever be stood up. I don't think you should be separated for stalemate or whatever. It's like, if someone puts you in that position, then, yeah, you gotta get out, get up.
- [164:35]
A
If they're not doing enough on the top, that's silly. Sean O' Malley explains why piracy led to the UFC's massive Paramount deal. Oh, interesting.
- [164:43]
C
There's a lot of people that'll pay for it every week, but there's a lot of people that won't.
- [164:47]
A
That makes sense. They're streaming it illegally. That makes sense. I knew there was a lot of that because there was sites that you could go to to, and people would openly talk about it. You can go to it and just watch the pay per view. It's a good move, dude. It's a good move for. For the business it's just like, they just need a few banger cards to make people forget about the stale ones.
- [165:06]
B
But that always. That will happen. It's inevitable.
- [165:08]
A
You're gonna have stale cards. I'm concerned about the White House fight. I'm concerned about it not just from a security standpoint. I'm concerned about it because it's outside. It's June, and It's in Washington, D.C. when you. If it's hot out and it could very well be like, what's the average temperature?
- [165:25]
C
I looked this up the other day. Average 67% humidity in last year or 20, 24 is 100 degrees on June 14th.
- [165:31]
A
Okay. Okay. That's tough. Okay.
- [165:34]
C
And I think it's supposed to be at noon also.
- [165:36]
A
Yeah, that's.
- [165:36]
B
That's an issue.
- [165:37]
A
Okay, okay, okay, okay. That's a fucking big problem, dude. That's a big problem. You are going to radically affect their performance if you make people fight in 100 degree temperature. Temperature with 67 humidity outside. You're also going to radically affect my ability to do commentary. Okay. My head doesn't have any hair. The top of my head is going to be beet red. I'm gonna have to put some toxic sunscreen on it. You're gonna see me with that white zinc powder that the surfers use on their nose. It'll be all over the. I'll make, like, fake hair with, like, white zinc. My head's gonna get.
- [166:10]
B
That is an issue.
- [166:11]
C
80% chance of thunderstorms with highs in the middle.
- [166:14]
A
Okay. Are they building a tent? Is this outside outside, or is it outside in a tent? Are they gonna have, like, fans blowing cold air on us? You know how much DC is gonna complain? That fucking dude, he's gonna be right next to me. His shirt's gonna be soaked.
- [166:29]
B
Yeah, that's a beautiful.
- [166:29]
A
You'll be able to tell with mine because I always wear black anyway. But everybody with a white shirt or a blue shirt, if Anak has a light blue shirt on, his pits are gonna be filled up with SW wet is going to be ridiculous.
- [166:41]
B
That also, like, really legitimately changes the
- [166:43]
A
actual fight itself 100%.
- [166:46]
C
Isn't that, like, the rendering of it?
- [166:47]
A
Okay, so there. I don't see any AC there, bro. How are you going to get AC on those people? What is that going to be like? That sounds insane to do that in June just because that's a fun time to do it. I mean, if I was Justin Gaethje or I was Ilia Toria. If I was Justin Gaethje, I Mean, first of all, he has to, to take the fight. It's a historic fight. It's at the White House. He's, he's a true red blooded American. He wants to win the title at the White House. Come on, you have to do it. But he's 37 years old, he's had a long career, and he's fighting maybe the most lethal guy he's ever faced. Yeah, the. The one guy out of all the guys he faced that can shut the fucking lights out with one shot every time. His last three fights is the craziest resume in the history of the sport. Knocks out Alexander Volkanovsky, knocks out Max Holloway, knocks out Charles Oliveira. Two at featherweight, one at lightweight, all of them level.
- [167:48]
B
I wouldn't even say. Well, I guess it's debatable, but certainly you could make an argument the two best featherweights of all time.
- [167:55]
A
Yes.
- [167:55]
B
And one of the greatest lightweights of all time. And by the way, and I know MMA math is never perfect, but you look at what Oliveira just did to Max Holloway, who I love one of my favorite fighters of all time. You look at what Charles Oliveira just did to Max Holloway and then you think about the way Ilia Toporia handled
- [168:13]
A
him, outlined him the first round, and
- [168:15]
B
not what was, to me almost as impressive as the knockout was handling him on the ground past his guard. He tried to take him down. Think about the way he got one of those body locks and tried to take him down. Think about how helpless Max Holloway was for that. How helpful us, a whole bunch of guys we've seen are when he gets his hands around you. And Ilya Toporia, he tried to do that, he ends up on top and passes his guard right away. Also, he ate a really clean elbow early in that fight and just was like nothing.
- [168:46]
A
Like, I mean, shook it off like it was nothing. He's, he's a special talent, so. But then again, when you are dealing with special talents and great, great fighters like Justin, who, this is probably his last opportunity fight for the time title, I want that under the perfect conditions. I want that to be in an arena where it's 72 degrees and air conditioned. I, I don't want it to be outside. I don't want there to be any additional stress or distractions because you're warming up at the White House. Like, what do you have tents with mats on them? And these guys are going to be slipping around in puddles of sweat, shadow
- [169:19]
B
boxing in the situation room before you come out.
- [169:21]
A
Who's going to slip on sweat and Blow their ACL out, you know, I mean. I mean, if you ever done striking on mats when a bunch of dudes have been training, like, in a class, it's so slippery, man. If it's that hot, it's gonna. Unless they have these mats and where they're getting set up in air conditioned building somewhere. Unless they have a facility.
- [169:43]
B
Yeah, maybe they can do that.
- [169:44]
A
I hope they think that through. I hope they think that through. I hope they prepare it. It's just. I don't like. I. I like the idea that it's like this big celebration of the ufc, that the president loves the UFC so much, he wants to do it at the White House, but in practice, I don't like it at all. Because you've got two world titles, you know, you've got the interim heavyweight world title, and then you've got this world title with Justin and Ilya at 55. I don't like it. I want those. I want those to be at the T Mobile. I want those to be at the Madison Square Garden arena. I wanna. You know, I want those to be somewhere dope. The TD Garden in Boston. Put it. Put it in a fucking real arena where it's air conditioned, damn it.
- [170:25]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [170:26]
A
These are amazing fights. I don't want anybody fighting when it's 100 degrees outside. That's also crazy. Wouldn't.
- [170:32]
B
And correct me if I'm wrong, but also, I would think it's. You're gonna get sweaty so quick in weather like that, and that is a big deal for, like, grappling and stuff like that. I mean, like, that's a huge advantage if you're trying to not get grappled by someone.
- [170:45]
A
Here's another factor. These are people that just were radically dehydrated 24 hours ago, and then you're asking them to compete in a sauna. You're basically asking them to fight in a sauna.
- [170:58]
B
That is still so crazy to me that there's not a way that we can just get two guys who weigh 180 pounds to fight at 180 pounds. I've had some conversation with that. Instead, we have to have two guys who weigh 180 pounds, cut down to 150 pounds, and then rehydrate up to 180 pounds to fight at 180 pounds and weaken themselves.
- [171:19]
A
Like, radically weaken themselves. I see those guys the day they weigh in. The worst ever that I ever saw was Travis Luder.
- [171:27]
B
So Travis Anderson Silva, I remember he
- [171:30]
A
missed weight, but I was backstage for all of it, right so this was back when the weigh ins were the time of the actual weigh ins. It wasn't the ceremonial weigh in. Like now they give him more time. You can weigh in in the morning and then by the ceremonial weigh in, just usually 5pm Usually these guys have significantly rehydrated. They do it slowly, but they have a process to it. But Travis missed weight and so I was backstage while they gave him X amount of time to make the weight. And dude, he couldn't walk. He was shuffling, shuffling like he couldn't pick his legs up. His lips were cracked, his face was dry. He looked like he was gonna die. He looked like a guy who had been shipwrecked, you know, and like lost at sea and just drinking his own piss for a week. And they finally rescued him. That's what it looked like.
- [172:14]
B
Well, I think he was dying, I guess.
- [172:16]
A
Right?
- [172:16]
B
I mean, that is what you're looking at.
- [172:17]
A
And then 24 hours later, he has to fight the greatest middleweight of all time. He has to fight Anderson Silva in
- [172:24]
B
his prime and did for that being the story, did remarkably well. He got viciously elbows. It was elbow in the triangle. Yeah, yeah.
- [172:35]
A
That would not be have happened if Travis wasn't compromised. Travis was a real problem back then.
- [172:39]
B
Yeah, he was one of the best
- [172:41]
A
Jiu jitsu guys to ever compete in mma.
- [172:42]
B
And he was stylistically kind of like the best shot against Anderson Silva at that time.
- [172:47]
A
Exactly.
- [172:48]
B
And because Anderson Silva just looked untouchable and he got him down and got him into good positions a few times,
- [172:53]
A
even though he was from the weight cut. But the thing was, he never made the weight. So even if he beat him in champion wouldn't have got the title. The whole thing was fucked. Yeah, but it's like I've advocated for or there's a solution. One of them is multiple weight classes that are additional to what we have have one at least every 10 pounds and it probably should be more. And a lot of people push back against that. But listen, 10 pounds for an elite athlete is a big deal. 20 pounds is crazy. So when you go like 85 to 205, that's crazy. Yeah, that's too much weight. It's too much of a gap. You could have multiple champions in between those weight classes and it's just better for the sport overall. You've got more champions, you got more champion versus champion matchups you can make.
- [173:36]
B
Well, there's it also, first of all, it's very unhealthy and dangerous, and that's the biggest issue. But then it also makes it a thing where it's like, now there's two factors. It's not just who's the best fighter, it's also who's the best at dehydrating themselves, losing a ton less weight, and rehydrating themselves. And also I think, think, like I've heard GSP say before that, like, some people are just naturally better at that. Some people just fluctuate and wait more. Some people can lose a lot of weight and then gain it all back. The other day, and he used to always say, I just can't do that. Like, I'm not a guy who can do that. But I think all of us, we just want to see who the best fighter is.
- [174:12]
A
Exactly.
- [174:12]
B
We don't care about who's the best at dehydrating.
- [174:14]
A
Anything that hampers your ability should be removed from the equation, especially if it's something like this. But there's a solution. First of all. First of all, there's a real silliness to the MMA weight classes and why I say silliness. Our names that we use have been owned by boxing for more than 100 years. And the names that we use are for different weight classes than boxing uses. That's dumb. Yeah, that is dumb as shit. Like, if you want to have a 170 pound champion, fantastic. But don't call it a welterweight, because welterweight is 147. It's been 147 for over 100 fucking years. Years. The fact that you have a 147 champion and you call that. Or 145 champion, you call that a featherweight? Featherweight is 126.
- [174:59]
B
Yeah.
- [174:59]
A
That's what it's been in boxing forever. Lightweight has always been 135. That's what Julio Cesar Chavez was the champ of. 135. 135 lightweights, 155 in the UFC. Like, come up with your own names.
- [175:14]
B
Yeah.
- [175:14]
A
Why do we still have these stupid names? I never thought about that.
- [175:16]
B
It's a good point.
- [175:17]
A
They attached these names to it when they first started developing weight classes because it used to just be one weight class, another one.
- [175:23]
B
On this. Why, and I think you've mentioned this before, why am I not getting the leg reach?
- [175:29]
A
They do that sometimes. Do they? Yeah, they do.
- [175:31]
B
Because I've seen, like. But on the regular tail of the tape, it'll still just be reach where it's like, but in this. Cause that actually, for mma, that's such a huge deal. Sure. Like, it's such a huge. Because, like, if you're kicking. Yeah, if you're in kicking range of me, but you know what I mean? But you can't touch me. Your jab doesn't. It doesn't matter as much as in boxing, you know?
- [175:50]
A
Right. And some guys, they have really long legs for their torso. Like my. My friend Larry. My friend Larry Jones from my Taekwondo days, he had this short torso. What is this?
- [176:01]
C
All those leg reaches longer than Steepe's.
- [176:04]
A
Whoa. That's crazy. That. Right, that's crazy. Stipe just has a way longer torso. That's not the help step.
- [176:10]
C
They're the same size.
- [176:11]
A
Oh, wow. That's crazy. Well, Aldo was such a good kicker. It's probably part of the reason why. Why my friend Larry had this short torso, like really short. But he was like six' three and he was all legs and he was this insane kicker. He was like a freak. Like, he was made in a lab. And when guys would fight him, like, you'd see guys in tournaments fight him, they'd be like, what the am I going to do with this? Because his reach was so nuts and he was so fast with his kicks, and you couldn't get anywhere close to him. If you were in his weight class and you were normally built, Right? He was built. His torso was shorter than mine, but his crazy long legs and long arms. Arms, yeah. Like, some people are just built certain ways, and for striking, it's a giant problem. Which is another thing that makes Ilio Toporia so unbelievably impressive. He's not tall at all.
- [176:56]
B
Yeah.
- [176:57]
A
You know, and he's just flatlining people.
- [177:00]
B
Oh. I mean, Charles Oliveira looked so much bigger than him.
- [177:02]
A
Oh.
- [177:03]
B
In that fight.
- [177:03]
A
And so much bigger than Max, too. Oliveira is big. It's like, look, the sport's fine. It's not. It's not true. Trouble sports not in trouble. The heavyweight division is in trouble. The heavyweight division is kind of. It's in a weird situation. The Alex Pereira thing is very interesting. Alex Pereira versus Cyril Gone is very, very, very interesting because Cyril Gone is a problem. That guy's a problem. He's super athletic. He's really fast. He's super skillful with his striking. His Muay Thai is absolutely elite. And he does a lot of things different than what a lot of people do do.
- [177:37]
B
And has anyone, cuz even Francis, like I was saying before, grappled with him a lot in that fight? Obviously, Jon Jones took him down and choked him. But has anyone really stood toe to toe and beat him up?
- [177:49]
A
No. No. No one's beat him up, toe to toe, tied to ivasa. Went toe to toe with him and tried to. But he got lit up. Yeah, dude, serial gone is a problem.
- [177:58]
B
Even in the little bit. In the little bit Tom Aspen all, it looked like he's tough. He's tough to fight like that, man.
- [178:04]
A
Not just tough. He was, like, getting off on Aspinall, and it didn't look good for Aspinall. I mean, it's very unfortunate that he got his eyes poked. I mean, that we really never got to see what happens if you drag Serial deep, deep water. What the way Tom would adjusted for the second round or third round, which
- [178:19]
B
we've never really seen out of Tom either. It was very interesting. We got robbed of that, you know,
- [178:23]
A
but we got robbed of that. And poor Tom, he's had two eye surgeries. And then he felt like the UFC disrespected him. The whole thing's a mess.
- [178:30]
B
Well, I don't know about the ufc, but a lot of fans did disrespect him. I saw that. Which is crazy. Like, this is really stupid.
- [178:36]
A
We talked about this last night. It should be one point period. If you poke somebody in the eyes. If you poke somebody in the eyes, one point. Well, especially if the fingers go in the eyes, if it's like a glancing thing like that, maybe get a warning. But in a nutshot, straight nutshot, one point, they're lancing thing, maybe a warning. I think that could be up to the judge. Discretion upon view of the replay.
- [178:59]
B
Yeah, well, the thing is that. And we were talking about this last. If you. So if you land a nutshot and it's accidental, as it almost always is, you know what I mean? You're trying to throw an inside leg kick and. Okay, maybe not. I said almost. Almost always, but. So I just see this all the time in mma. It's the first one. It was an accident. This guy gets kicked in the nuts, he needs a few minutes. Usually they don't take the full five or whatever they're offered. And then you just go back. It's like, look, even if it was an accident, that's such an advantage to the guy who kicked him in the groin. Yeah, you hurt him, you hurt this guy, and now he's gotta get back to it. And there's no. So, like, it does seem like there almost has to be some accounting for that. And there's. I think there's still. It's still a very young sport. I think there is still too much referee discretion. Like, there's too much. Like, there should be like an official rule for what we do in this situation.
- [179:54]
A
Especially those kind of feels it's like, doesn't it exist in basketball? Right.
- [179:57]
B
Yeah.
- [179:58]
A
If somebody fouls somebody in basketball and everybody sees it, that that's a foul.
- [180:02]
B
Yes.
- [180:02]
A
Right. And the crowd will go nuts. Right. Usually. But it'd be like a real one, like throwing someone to the ground.
- [180:08]
C
I. I could show you examples. There are some wild things that don't get called for.
- [180:12]
A
Whatever. Don't you think that's a little bit of the. The corrupt referees. I'm not saying all of them, but that that is one thing that's been 100% proven is that referees do get paid off in order to influence gambling lines. Yeah.
- [180:25]
B
There was that one referee who, who confirmed that it was the Sacramento Kings versus the Lakers, which was like a series that was notoriously like. Everyone was like, yo, it was crazy. They didn't call any of these fouls on the Lakers and they called all these fouls. And then a ref came out and was like, oh yeah, yeah, that's. And it does kind of make sense because it was the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. You gotta get them in the finals, dude. Yeah, it was big money.
- [180:52]
A
Gotta. So gross.
- [180:53]
C
His defense weirdly was like, they didn't. No one told us what to do, but you kind of know what they want, so you sort of do it. And then you keep getting put on good games and you keep getting the good stuff.
- [181:03]
A
Hang him. Public hanging you.
- [181:06]
B
But we can deal. We can deal with Congress's insider trading, but basketball must be a judges.
- [181:12]
A
Hang them. Hang them all in front of the kingdom. All right, dude. Anything else before we wrap up?
- [181:18]
B
This.
- [181:19]
A
This up?
- [181:19]
B
No. Thank you for letting a non expert talk MMA with you.
- [181:22]
A
I love, I love talking to non experts.
- [181:26]
B
Dude, thank you so much for everything, as always.
- [181:28]
A
Pleasure, brother. Thank you.
- [181:29]
B
The man.
- [181:29]
A
I love you. You're the man too. I love you too. We'll have fun tonight, right? I. Are you coming? You leaving? Damn. Last night was fun.
- [181:37]
B
That was a lot of fun. It was lot of fun. Good times.
- [181:38]
A
All right, bye everybody.
- [181:45]
C
Foreign.
- [181:53]
A
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