#2379 - Matthew McConaughey

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2379 – Matthew McConaughey

Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Matthew McConaughey

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Episode Overview

In this deeply reflective and wide-ranging conversation, Joe Rogan welcomes actor and author Matthew McConaughey for a conversation that pivots around McConaughey's new book, Poems and Prayers, and stretches into explorations of values, belief, social cynicism, AI, parenting, the modern digital world, psychedelics, competition, personal growth, and the state of American society. The discussion is marked by McConaughey’s introspective musings and Rogan’s probing curiosity, balanced with humor, philosophical inquiry, and memorable anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. McConaughey’s New Book: “Poems and Prayers”

[00:17–02:08]

• McConaughey shares the journey behind his book, how poetry and prayer have helped him navigate periods of doubt and cynicism, and the importance of maintaining belief in ideals and dreams.

• He reflects on the evolution from innocence to naivete to skepticism, expressing concern about tipping into cynicism.

  • Quote:
    “Poems and prayers. Those are ideals. Those are pursuits. You know, that's going to the dream and saying, let's go to… Let's look at the dream and see if we can still believe in making that a reality, aspirational. Instead of looking at reality and saying, how do you turn that into a dream?”
    —Matthew McConaughey [01:41]

2. Belief, Leadership & Social Cynicism

[02:10–05:14]

• Both discuss the scarcity of admirable leaders and growing social distrust, a lack of consequences for bad behavior, and the ethical consequences of contemporary capitalism.

  • Quote:
    “You see people that aren't embarrassed for doing something shitty… I found myself starting to go, oh, I sleep fine too. That's… You don't… Don't sleep fine if you half ass that situation or if you did that person wrong and can get away with it.”
    —Matthew McConaughey [02:32]

  • Quote:
    “I see a lot of people that are successful but lack profit, meaning value of their success. Unhappy billionaires. I know them.”
    —Matthew McConaughey [05:12]

3. Simplicity vs. Excess: Lessons from the Airstream Years

[06:39–09:12]

• McConaughey reflects on living four years in an Airstream, the value of minimalism, the psychological comfort of reduced options, and how such experiences reset one's perspective.

  • Quote:
    “You only have room for one of everything. So I would get my best. The best pan. The best pair of shorts… Then you can only have one of each because you get two, it's cluttered. But there were no options.”
    —Matthew McConaughey [06:41]

4. Momentum, Autopilot & Finding Joy in Work

[09:27–12:41]

• The dangers of life’s momentum and autopilot; how stand-up comedy and acting can be like “being a passenger.”

• Pursuing activities to the point you “can’t not do them,” and recognizing when you're fully engaged.

  • Quote:
    “I love when people are just like, what you do is what you're supposed to be doing… Find that thing where you, like—God, I can't wait to get back to whatever it is. Making cars. I can't wait to get back to, you know, whatever…”
    —Joe Rogan [12:10]

5. Belief, Faith & Sacrifice

[15:00–15:44]

• Discuss the concept of belief—what (or who) you’d die for becomes what you live for.

  • Quote:
    “If you figure out what you’re gonna do, what you’ll die for, that’s what you’ll live for that much more.”
    —Matthew McConaughey [15:38]

6. The “Gay Bomb” & Absurdity of Military Strategies

[16:05–20:04]

• Humorous digression about the U.S. military’s “gay bomb” and how misguided thinking occurs when there’s too much power and too little oversight.

  • Quote:
    “Let’s try it on us. Right here in this room, just… Just to show you the effectiveness of this type of strategy.”
    —Matthew McConaughey [19:04]

7. Human Nature: Are We Evolving?

[21:44–23:28]

• Discussion on whether humanity is truly evolving, with Rogan noting that violent crime has decreased globally despite perceptions.

  • Quote:
    “If you just judge us by our actions, that’s the only way you could really judge our mental evolution… But… pretty uniformly, you know, across the world, pretty murderous.”
    —Joe Rogan [22:28]

8. AI, Digital Life & The Loss of Privacy

[24:08–34:42]

• In-depth exchange about the rise of AI, from language models making personalized recommendations to the dangers of surrendering memory and judgment to machines.

• McConaughey expresses fascination with the idea of creating an AI uniquely trained on one’s own writings and experiences, rather than being exposed to the full digital world.

• Rogan raises concerns about the cognitive atrophy and dependence that pervasive AI could cause.

  • Quote:
    *“Because you let it think for you, right now, it's doing all the work for you. So now you're using your brain—you have more information, but your brain is not making it. It's not putting it together.” —Joe Rogan [38:33]

9. Ethics, Kindness & The Selfishness of Being Good

[54:35–58:08]

• They analyze the roots of personal ethics and the benefits of kindness, positing that being a “good dude” is ultimately a selfish act as much as an altruistic one.

  • Quote:
    "To have a certain code of ethics is a very selfish thing to do. Much more selfish than to lie, cheat, still fuck people over, be evil on the short term."
    —Matthew McConaughey [57:32]

  • Quote:
    "It's actually super beneficial to you. And to everybody else, it's really the right way to do it. But I think that's how the universe rewards. It's like how it encourages and rewards kindness. Because you feel better when you're kind. You feel better when you're generous."
    —Joe Rogan [58:08]

10. Intentions, Language & The Ten Commandments Debate

[61:10–68:24]

• Discussion about focusing on the spirit and intent of words/actions rather than their literal form.

• Debate on the appropriateness of displaying the Ten Commandments in public schools, and the separation of church and state versus moral ambiguity in youth culture.

• They note the psychological harms caused by social media, especially for young people.

  • Quote:
    “If you just follow your natural instincts. Right. So the algorithm is set up for show you what you engage with the most... it leads us down the road of being full of anxiety, constantly filled with cortisol. Stressed out, angry.”
    —Joe Rogan [71:27]

11. Social Comparison & The Culture of “Fakeness”

[79:08–85:05]

• McConaughey and Rogan joke about “rental” luxury on social media, Miami’s legacy of hustle and show, and lessons on authenticity versus “faking it.”
• They relate this to the broader crisis of meaning among youth.

12. Parenting, Marriage, and the Decline of Commitment

[87:58–95:42]

• McConaughey asks how to restore reverence for parenting and marriage, positing them as roots of positive societal change.

• Rogan notes the challenges faced by modern marriages and the dangers of inflated expectations fueled by media or social comparison.

  • Quote:
    "Who did you pick and why'd they pick you? Are you someone that you would pick if you were a woman?"
    —Joe Rogan [95:28]

13. Psychedelics & Knocking Perspective Loose

[95:43–106:02]

• The value of psychedelics (and other altered states) in dissolving ego, challenging patterns, and increasing insight.
• Anecdotes about McConaughey’s acupuncture-induced clarity and Dumbo’s animated “trip” sequence.

14. Ancient Knowledge, UFOs, and Conspiracies

[107:14–118:40]

• Delve into speculation about lost civilizations, asteroid impacts, pyramids, and the interface between science, spirituality, and "unexplained" phenomena.
• Rogan argues that skepticism of official narratives is healthy, not fringe; there are real conspiracies.

15. Responsibility, Audience, and Authenticity

[119:19–122:26]

• Rogan rebuts claims he’s responsible for “controlling” podcast discourse, argues for authenticity and staying true to oneself.
• “If you have a good internal compass, as long as you have a good true north… That’s all you can do.” — Joe Rogan [120:36]

16. Resilience, Self-Regulation & Discipline

[124:28–126:20]

• The critical role of self-regulation, using cold plunges and running as metaphors for pushing past limitation.

• David Goggins and Novak Djokovic’s mental strength as exemplars.

  • Quote:
    “Every day I almost don’t [do the cold plunge]. David Goggins told me that too. Who’s like the most mentally strong human being I’ve ever met… I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to do this. But he does it.”
    —Joe Rogan [125:22]

  • Quote:
    “I have as many or more negative thoughts. I just get past them quicker than others.”
    —paraphrasing Novak Djokovic [126:46]

17. Performance, Preparation & The Process over the Outcome

[127:55–134:54]

• In competition, suffering to succeed is more sustaining than revenge; true champions aim beyond goals, detach from hype, and are fully present in the process.

18. Athletics, Evolution & The Limits of Preparation

[141:42–150:17]

• The evolution of athletes, changing standards for preparation, and Irreplaceable value of innate ability, hustle, and passion over pure expertise.

19. AI and the Future of Work

[151:01–155:14]

• With fast-advancing AI, the future of employment becomes murky; skills in programming, law, and accounting may be less relevant. The importance of following one’s dream and “liberal arts” versatility rises.

20. Poetry Reading: “Tips Included” from Poems and Prayers

[155:58–158:12]

• McConaughey delivers a poem critiquing the culture of extra credit, participation trophies, and a lost sense of earned merit—prompting a discussion about resilience, loss, and learning.

  • Quote:
    “When extra credit’s included, credit doesn’t get its due. When more gives us less, the exchange rate’s gone askew… Cause when the tip’s included, the service will suffer.”
    —Matthew McConaughey [157:33]

21. The Value of Failure & Struggle

[158:40–161:05]

• Rogan and McConaughey agree on the necessity of losing and struggling to build character, resilience, and healthy competitiveness.

  • Quote:
    “If you don’t have a loser, you don’t have a desire to get better, to become a winner. Yeah, that’s part of the process.”
    —Joe Rogan [160:06]

22. McConaughey’s Movie “The Lost Bus”

[161:08–164:53]

• Matthew previews his new film The Lost Bus, dramatizing a true story of heroism during California’s Paradise fires, involving family, sacrifice, and facing calamity.

23. Final Reflections on Meaning, Authenticity, & the Path Forward

[164:55–165:53]

• They close with gratitude, laughter, and acknowledgment of the importance of authenticity, kindness, struggle, and meaning in an age of superficiality and technological upheaval.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cynicism and belief:
  “You go from innocence to naivete to skepticism, but let's stop there. It's skepticism… I'm not ready to give up. I'm not ready to wave the white flag.”
  —Matthew McConaughey [00:36]

• On information overload:
  “I don't think we're supposed to have access to 8 billion people's bad stories…”
  —Joe Rogan [03:39]

• On being fully present in performance:
  “When you do it right, you’re like a passenger… You're not there anymore. You're like a passenger.”
  —Joe Rogan [10:04]

• On AI, privacy, and memory:
  “We’re going to all read each other's minds… Remember when you couldn’t read people’s minds? …I think we're less than 20 years away from that.”
  —Joe Rogan [30:11]

• On kindness as selfishness:
  “To have a certain code of ethics is a very selfish thing to do. Much more selfish than to lie, cheat, still fuck people over… being a fucking good dude is a selfish thing to do, man.”
  —Matthew McConaughey [57:32]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Poems, Prayers, and Cynicism: 00:17–02:08
• Social Cynicism and Leadership: 02:10–05:14
• Minimalism & the Airstream: 06:39–09:12
• “Being a Passenger” in Life & Work: 09:46–14:35
• Belief & Living for Something: 15:00–15:44
• The ‘Gay Bomb’ Story: 16:05–20:04
• Human Evolution & Morality: 21:44–23:28
• AI, Privacy & Cognitive Impact: 24:08–38:33
• Kindness, Ethics, and “Selfish” Goodness: 54:35–58:08
• Intentions, Words, and The Ten Commandments: 61:10–68:24
• Parenting, Marriage, and Social Comparison: 87:58–95:42
• Psychedelics & Resetting Perspective: 95:43–106:02
• Authenticity, Audience & Podcasting: 119:19–122:26
• Resilience, Self-Regulation & Motivation: 124:28–126:20
• Performance, Preparation, and Process: 127:55–134:54
• Athletics & Innate Talent: 141:42–150:17
• AI and Future of Work: 151:01–155:14
• Poem: “Tips Included” & Discussion of Merit: 155:58–158:12
• The Value of Failure in Growth: 158:40–161:05
• Previewing “The Lost Bus”: 161:08–164:53
• Closing Notes on Authenticity: 164:55–165:53

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, philosophical, often playful, with McConaughey’s signature warmth and Rogan’s grounded curiosity driving a discussion that fluidly moves from the personal and poetic to the practical and cultural, sometimes meandering but always seeking deeper understanding.

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Summary for Listeners

If you missed this episode, expect a thought-provoking ride through belief, cynicism, AI, the value of struggle, the traps of digital comparison, the power of preparation, and the necessity of kindness—underscored by the poetry of life, loss, and learning. The show is packed with poignant stories, insightful reflections, and memorable humor—a full immersing Joe Rogan Experience.

Transcript

[Matthew McConaughey]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night.

[Matthew McConaughey]

All day. Good, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Cheers.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Cheers, sir.

[Joe Rogan]

Good to see you on your hometown, my man.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yay.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, you. You're a man of many talents, my friend. Tell me about this book.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Poems and prayers. Yeah, so I've been kind of writing.

[Joe Rogan]

Try to keep this. Like, these are a little bit directional.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, perfect. I've been kind of. I've been writing poems and prayers down for. Since I was, like, 18. And then this last, I don't know, a couple years, I started looking around at life and the facts and evidence and people, and I was, like, not finding the amount of things or people to believe in that I was wanting to. And I was starting to have doubts in myself as well. And I started to see myself slipping to a little bit of cynicism, which I promised myself. That's. That. No, that's a. That's a living man's disease. Don't go there. You go from innocence to naivete to skepticism, but let's stop there. It's skepticism.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And I kind of got scared and a little pissed off at myself. I was like, wait a minute. I'm not ready to give up. I'm not ready to wave the white flag and let myself off for certain things. I was starting to even want to let myself off on, you know, or other people. And I said, all right. Poems and prayers. Those are ideals. Those are pursuits. You know, that's going to the dream and saying, let's go to. Let's look at the dream and see if we can still believe in making that a reality, aspirational. Instead of looking at reality and saying, how do you turn that into a dream? Which is what I usually do. I'm like, art emulates life, man. Not the other way around. But I flipped the script a little bit here and said, no, no, let's. Let's dive into the dreams and belief, man. I think it's in short supply. It was getting. It was. My tank was getting low on belief.

[Joe Rogan]

What was bothering you so much?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, specifically, maybe it's. Maybe it's turning 50, something like that. Maybe it's that where I start to project, you know, what am I. What's the next half?

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I don't know. Maybe subconsciously it was. I think I look around, and there's a lot fewer leaders that I'm like, hey, son.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I want to grow up like that, right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I look around, I see people not trusting. I see people. I see people that Aren't embarrassed for doing something shitty.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I see people that sleep just fine. I don't. I found myself starting to go, oh, I sleep fine too. That's. That part was like, you can't. You don't. You don't. Don't sleep fine if you half ass that situation or if you did that person wrong and can get away with it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And so, so trust. What. Where do we look to for belief? Me, I believe in God. But it doesn't have to be that. What's your, your better self? Your transcendent self? Your kids, Their future? There's all kinds.

[Joe Rogan]

Humanity itself.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Believing in it. Our potential.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is. We understand that humans can be so amazing at times. And all my favorite people are humans. Like all the. I love people. I love being around them. But yet simultaneously people can be horrific. They're terrible at the same time. Like. And the problem today is that you're inundated by these people that are terrible. Your, your, your phone is filled with these news feeds of people doing terrible things. And I don't think we're supposed to have access to 8 billion people's bad stories. I don't think that's normal. And I think that also changes your own perception of the world and invites cynicism and invites like. Like, what is the point being a good person? What's the point of being friendly and nice when the world's gone?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Consequences, man. Yeah. None of it. If I can shortcut it and Right. Light sheet and steel to get the same thing. And I'm in a world that REWARDS that, especially CEOs.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, if you're working, working for some giant corporation, if you're trying to make your shareholders billions of dollars, like, yeah. You kind of have to be a psycho. And those are the people that a lot of people look up to.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's real. It's the way we're structured in this world with that inundation of information. Most of it bad. With people being rewarded for being shitty. People with like. It's hard. It's hard to, to still be positive and be happy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm not ready to give up on believing that both can be true.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That. Hey man, hardcore capitalist. Go for it. More, more, more success. Get it? But you can also. How do you have profit with your success? I see a lot of people that are successful but lack profit, meaning value of their success.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Unhappy billionaires. I know them.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. I know them too. That's a bad thing. Right? Like, that's the thing that you think oh. If you. You hit that stage of the game, there's no way you can be unhappy. No. There's some of the most unhappy people.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. And that math. That math is inverted. Shouldn't be that way. If that's what we're pursuing, and I got nothing against it, I'm actually for it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. But yeah, if that's what we're pursuing, that. That's not how it's supposed to end. It's supposed to. That's the happiest guy alive, right? You know? Yeah. It's not real, you know, and you don't notice it. It's just numbers, you know? You notice it by how big your house is. Great. Still just your house. You notice it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why aren't you getting lost in that son of a bitch. And you wish the ceilings were a little bit lower because it's just all too damn big.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not cozy at all. Like, this ain't cozy. This is weird. It's fucking Castle.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I've done it. I've done it. Oh, that picture. Shit. That's the first time I've noticed that painting in two years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Either I don't like it, or I got it in the wrong place. Yeah. It's in the fourth bedroom down the second hallway, and I'm never down here. Or that chair. That used to be my favorite chair. I hadn't sat in it. Yeah. In two years. Yeah. Because you got it off down in the fifth bedroom.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Or no, you never go.

[Joe Rogan]

When I see, like, movies where a dude's living in a log cabin, I'm like, I want to do that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right? The lack of options. Yeah, the lack of options is relaxing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's something to that. Like a frying pan, a grill, dude.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's what I loved about living in the Airstream for four years.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You only have room for one of everything. So I would get my best. The best pan. The best. The best. The best pair of shorts, the best sheets. And then you can only have one of each because you get two. It's cluttered.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But there were no options.

[Joe Rogan]

I forgot you did that. You did that for four years. That's crazy. That's so smart, though. It's such a good. I watch these videos on people that live in, like, trailers. Like. Like a truck, you know, like a camper that they convert to living in and they travel around the country. I'm obsessed with these videos. I watch these guys go to, like, these horrendous places. This guy, one guy's a truck camper. And he goes up into like, way into Alaska, like way, way, way above the Arctic Circle. Like way up there in this fucking truck with a house on the back of it. He's in Canada and like deep into Alberta and it's snowstorms and it's. There's something oddly comforting about watching a man cook in this tiny little space that he has. It's essentially attached to the back of a big diesel pickup truck.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And he lives in it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. Well, he's got decreased amount of options, like little shelves.

[Joe Rogan]

This is where I keep my silverware. This is like, here's my frying pan. He's got one frying pan.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, yeah, take care of that. One frying pan.

[Joe Rogan]

And I'm watching this guy cook his supper and I'm like, this is appealing to me for some reason. Like, why is it so appealing? Cuz his world is all contained, that little. And the whole world outside is this frozen wasteland and snow coming sideways and this dude's just chilling, making eggs.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm like, there's something in the honey hole. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Something cool about watching someone achieve like a. Like a den in the back of a truck. And he's in the middle of the winter and he's comfortable. He's watching movies on his iPad. I'm like, this is great.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I. The times I've gone off on my own, I've always tripped. My goal's always been, okay, stay here until you feel. Whether it's Mali or Peru or even in the Airstream at those times, or going out to Marfa to go right on my own. I go out, stay here long enough to believe this could be your existence, Makana. You could live here forever. Then it's okay to come back home. If I get to that point, I'm going, I could do this. This could be me. Then I've given it the justice, right, to then go come home. Because I sure do silk sheets on my bed at home. Sure do feel silkier after those times in that log cabin.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know, I like coming back and re. Engaging.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know, spend time over in Hawaii. Coming back over to the mainland was great, to get the stimulus again. Ah. In the game, you feel teeth. I wanted that, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If resets are real, they're important. You can get trapped in momentum. You know, you could really get trapped in the momentum of whatever you're doing in your life to the point where you lose yourself in just the sheer gravity of everything that you're doing and you forget how to like, just.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Be just a person.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And what happens when you're doing it well, but you don't feel it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And you're on autopilot. You're not going to. Everyone's telling you, knocking it out of the park.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But you're going to the good. Because I didn't, I didn't feel it. I'm not having any real experience here, man. Like, don't change the thing. You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

You know, that's a real problem with stand up comedy. When you do it right, you're like a passenger. Like, it takes forever to put together an act, but when, when it comes together, when you're really like locked in, when you're really on it, it's like you're like a passenger. You're watching it happen and you're objectively watching while you're. Yeah, it's like you know how to do it so you know what to do. And you're locked into the material. So you're like a part of the material, but you're not there anymore. You're like a passenger. You're not saying, now I'm going to pick this up and now I'm going to give them a pause and now. Nope, you're not there.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Are you enjoying watching yourself?

[Joe Rogan]

No, you don't enjoy it. I mean, it's fun, don't get me wrong. But you're not thinking about the fact that you're enjoying it at all. You're just locked in. All you're doing is just doing it. But it's weird. You're like a passenger. And I think there's something in. There's something about that where we get trapped by not being a passenger. You get trapped by wanting to, like, think of yourself all the time. And like things that you can do that take you out of that. Things that you can do that like you're just locked into this thing. They're a little like mini vacations for whatever pattern you're stuck in.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Many vacations.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, like golfers, anything.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I didn't act in front of the camera for a few years and I went back and did a couple of films last year. Vacation.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You were telling me that to go.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I revered this enough to just do this. And if I'm complacent, that means I'm being lazy. I can just go back to, to working on my man, my character, look at it from every angle. And that is an absolute vacation.

[Joe Rogan]

You send me a text about that. It made me smile because I love when someone loves something. I love That I love when people are just like, what you do is what you're supposed to be doing. And, you know, you're not conflicted at all. Like, fuck it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Let'S go. I love that. Yeah. And I wish more people could find that in life in some form.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Whether it's painting or making pottery or whatever the it is, man. Find that thing where you, like. God, I can't wait to get back to whatever it is. Making cars. I can't wait to get back to, you know, whatever the it is I.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Enjoy or maybe even get to the place of going. I can't not not do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I. I can't help myself. It's more than my fault.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Made. That's a. That's. And that doesn't always happen. Even I know for me, when I'm. When I'm feeling like I'm actually in the. In the zone, I still sometimes have to make a choice and go, wait, no, you're good at this. It feels pretty good. But what I really love to get to is if I'm doing something, I'm like, no, I can't not.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Can't not.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You can't not do this right now. Yeah, I have to.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And I'm in it. I'm the subject of it. Locked up on that passenger thing, though. Are you the subject? Meaning if I'm giving a performance. I'm not. There's nothing. It's not an objective experience at all.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm not even hopping out to look at myself from a third eye. I'm not even supposing or anticipating, oh, how will this go? Or, oh, this is that punchline. Or, oh, this is a great beat to hit. I'm just in it. And then I can feel it, though. Now if I go, oh, right afterwards, I can look at you and go, that was it. And you go, that was it. Or I can go, yeah, I bullshitted right there in the middle. Blah, blah, blah. I can feel it when it's happening, but I'm not. There's nothing objective about the experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

At all.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Yeah, that's exactly kind of what I'm saying. It's like you're a passenger. Like you could feel it when it's happening. You're managing it. When. When I get it really locked in, then I'm just a passenger.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Is it coming through?

[Joe Rogan]

Are you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You're not even coming up with it's coming.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it's all stuff that I've already thought of. Right. Most of it. Except for some stuff that happens on the spot, which you got to allow room for, because occasionally you just have the best line ever that just comes out of nowhere, and you just got to be able to let it happen. That's what club work is for. But it's your. You're really just. The ideas, like, whatever it is you're talking about, whatever it is you're upset about, whatever it is you're making fun of. You. You have to be, like, in that idea, and you don't exist anymore.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's weird. It's weird. But, like, what you're saying about, I can't not do this, you know, That's. If you could find a thing in your life where you're like, I cannot imagine a time where I can't do this.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

This would fucking suck if I could not do this. That's. That's. That's the aspiration for people to have a joyful existence.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You think that's where. I got a hunch that in there is where you. Where we find belief. Like, starting with that question, who. Who or what would you die for? Good place to start.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

For going, what do I believe in? What do I have faith in?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Do you think that that extends out to a vocation, a career, some work we do? Not saying that I die for the.

[Joe Rogan]

Experience to perform, but that's the ultimate sacrifice. That's the ultimate expression of how much you love something. You die for it or die for them. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So much. And if you figure out what you're gonna do, what you'll die for, that's what you'll live for. That much more.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

While you're alive, while you're here.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that was why the Spartans had sex with each other.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So that they would love each other. And so you would be fighting. Not just for you. You'd be fighting for your lover.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy strategy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, talk a bunch of guys to bang at each other.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I mean, go for whatever. Raise your skirt, man. Let's get some team spirit here.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Do you remember this is kind of a crazy but true story a few years ago. God, I want to. I don't know what administration it was. It might have been the Bush administration, might have been Obama. They. They tried to develop a gay bomb. Like, they spent millions of dollars developing a bomb. And the concept behind this bomb was you would detonate it over a city, and it would be like a bunch of probably pheromones and hormones and some kind of drug, and it would make people so Horny that they would just have to have sex with whoever is near them. And then the idea was they would be humiliated by this. And then we would just come in and just fuck up all these gay.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They had low morale, feeling guilty all of a sudden.

[Joe Rogan]

If a man becomes gay now, he's no longer like a highly trained, military, like, soldier in another land. Now he's just a fruitcake. Just. Just some guy who's watching musicals. No, it's. It's the dumbest.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why he liked it so much.

[Joe Rogan]

Some of the. Exactly. Some of the greatest warriors of all time in recorded history were gay. Including pirates. Pirates were gay. You're stuck at sea for five months, a bunch of dudes. You make choices, right? Samurai did a lot of gay stuff. Spartans, the greatest warriors of all time. All gay. Like, what a terrible idea to spend money on. You could have made a more lethal army. Imagine if they dropped that gay bomb and then the gays just kicked our asses. They just had so much more to fight for. They loved each other. And this is how dumb like the people that were spending your tax dollars are.

[Matthew McConaughey]

How far did that get?

[Joe Rogan]

$7 million.

[Matthew McConaughey]

$7 million.

[Joe Rogan]

See if you could pull that up, Jamie. When. When the gay bomb was.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It was in the 90s.

[Joe Rogan]

Pentagon didn't deny the proposal. The Pentagon didn't deny it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

If you.

[Joe Rogan]

If you didn't make a gay bomb, I guarantee you'd fucking deny it. I guarantee you'd be like, no, no, no. Well, meanwhile, like, who's to say that shit even stays local? What if it catches a good breeze and blows across the ocean and, you know, come on, Turns all of Portland gay? They become the new Viking army.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Look out, Greenland.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean, it's just. It's so hilarious that someone had that idea. But that's what happens if people just have free access without any sort of oversight to your tax dollars. Like, that's such a ridiculous idea.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I got one for you. How about. Yeah, the gay bomb. The what? The gay bomb.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I mean, lay it out. There's a few people in that room up there going, like, measuring the Pentagon, you know, work.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I got an idea. Let's try it on us.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right here in this room, Just.

[Joe Rogan]

Just to show you the effectiveness of this type of strategy. Yeah. So what. What was it and what was in it? I think it was just a proposal. I mean, they didn't. There's a lot. Isn't there a Wikipedia page on. That's what I was looking at. It didn't have anything other than it was just the discussion of. Excuse me, it's existence.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What was going to make everyone so horny that they.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Had to attack and crazy. The nearest human or right animal or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

Also, why is there only guys around you? Like, is that. Is it because they're the soldiers or dropping on the soldiers?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, I guess the demographic.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think the idea was dropping it on a whole city. Just turn the whole city found they were doing like a FOIA request. They found it was on a CD ROM that they found in 2000. And yeah, the documents show they spent $7.5 million. Was requested to develop the weapon.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Doesn't say that they spent it.

[Joe Rogan]

Didn't deny the proposal was made. That's all I got. That's hilarious.

[Matthew McConaughey]

There you go.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by ESPN catch the first WWE premium live event on ESPN Wrestle Palooza live on Saturday, September 20th at 7:00pm Eastern Time. It's going to be an epic night in Indianapolis featuring some of the biggest WW Superstars like John Cena, WWE Heavyweight Champion, Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, Becky Lynch, Jay Uso and more. The event is only on ESPN, so go to plus.espn.com WWE and sign up for the ESPN app today for your all access pass to Wrestle Palooza and all WWE Premium Live events. I don't know how we got into that after, but it's just like we.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Were talking about teamwork.

[Joe Rogan]

Whatever those people are doing, they're not in the groove. Like, if you're sitting around and this is your life's work and you're thinking, you know what the next step is. Gay bomb.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, yeah, you're.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They're still looking. They definitely are. Not at a can't not do it stage there. They're going, what about this? I'm bored. I've got more than a campfire to make on this one frying pan tonight. I got a lot of options out there and a lot of money. And I can make an argument for this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Gay bomb. Well, probably better than a real bomb. I mean, anything we can do to stop dropping real bombs, that'd be great.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That would be nice, wouldn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, it would be.

[Joe Rogan]

It'd be nice within our lifetime. That's one of the most depressing things. It's like, you ask people, do you think ever in your lifetime there'll be a time where there's no war? Nobody says yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So how do we do that, though? I mean, how do. I mean, I hear you, man, but how do we. Are we giving ourselves too much Credit.

[Joe Rogan]

Congratulations. You're the first guy to put bare feet on this desk.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Congratulate you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Thank you.

[Joe Rogan]

How do we do it?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I mean, how did do. What I'm saying is I, I love the prospect and the idea, but I also think that we're guilty of thinking we're more evolved species than we are.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure. Especially by our actions. If you just judge us by our actions, that's the only way you could really judge our mental evolution. You know, who knows what the wiring is under the board that makes us behave the way we behave. But pretty uniformly, you know, across the world, pretty murderous, you know, and now.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And always have been.

[Joe Rogan]

Always have been.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And keep trying to talk like we were more. Well, we aspire and evolved and intellectually.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's a same ship that takes a long time to turn around. I think we're way more evolved culturally than any culture throughout history, any civilization throughout history. Like, if you look at the rape, murder, thievery, like you look at like violent, terrifying crimes, over time, they're all going way down.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you're in Baltimore, it doesn't seem like it. If you're in a place that's like crime ridden, it doesn't seem like it. But the overall of the world has dropped and continues to drop. It's just a constant battle.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So the battles are, the warfare is different though now. Like you're talking about from gay bombs to chemical warfare to informational warfare to data warfare.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Is that where the wars are being fought now? And it's not hand to hand?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, maybe that'll ultimately be where it leads to. But I think all that stuff is related because all of it is about technology, you know, and that's the difference in the world of warfare today. It's, it's just, it's really just about controlling people. And you could kind of control people with technology especially. The more you get them to adapt things, the more you get people to sign up for like, social credit scores. A lot of countries like to do that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You.

[Joe Rogan]

And then we got AI on the way. And when real AI hits, it'll probably be our governor, it'll be our president. It'll. We'll decide that human beings are too dangerous and volatile and emotional. And, you know, they use Trump's tweets as an example and, you know, they'll, they'll decide that, you know, the Biden family, corruption or whatever scandal any other president was involved in, all this could be avoided if we just have AI run everything right. And what's your.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What do you. Do you think there's a way that we can keep evolving AI where we as humans do work with AI, that AI improves the human existence.

[Joe Rogan]

That would be the ultimate benefit. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What about the. What about the. What about the. The camp. That is. No, forget humanity. This is the next step in evolution.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We are creating this to become the superior existent species, and we will be obsolete. And that's the order of things to come.

[Joe Rogan]

You ever see that interview where Peter Thiel, they ask him, should the human race survive? And he has, like this long pause. It's like. It's a really funny pause. Because if you know Peter, he's a brilliant man. And Peter carefully considers everything before he answers it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

The same as Elon. If you ask Elon a question and he really has to think about it, he'll really think about it. He's not just gonna start talking. But unfortunately, the reporter. It was just a perfect kind of a question for you to pause on, where he's like, the answer is yes. Like you want it to. Right. You want the human race to survive. Right. For him. Because it's kind of crazy. You watch it. And you're just like, what are you saying? But I get what he is saying. And what he is saying is, clearly something is going to happen when we don't exactly know what it is, but clearly there's going to be some kind of an integration with us and technology that we don't understand yet. The same way if you grabbed me in 1980 and tried to explain the Internet, I would never get it right. Here, put this. Put your headphones on for a second. You got to hear this. Prefer the human race to endure. Right. You're hesitating. Well, I.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. I. I would.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I would.

[Joe Rogan]

This is a long hesitation. It's so long hesitation. There's so many questions. And plus, okay, the problem is the interviewer, really. You can't. With a guy like that. You can't have a guy like that and badger him, let him think. Like, it's a gotcha moment.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a comedic gotcha moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is what I think is going to happen. There's going to be integration, and that integration is going to have a huge advantage competitively. If you integrate whatever business you're in, you'll be able to be better at it. And it'll probably be some sort of a neural thing, maybe a wearable thing. Then it ultimately will be like some sort of an implant, and we're all going to be connected. And it seems like it's either that or AI creates a new order, like a new life form that's far superior to us, that runs things, because that's right, that's AI. In just a couple of years, it's going to be smarter than any human.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's. The second scenario is where what I'm not necessarily fearing, but where I see be going faster. Quicker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

The. The first scenario is what you're talking.

[Joe Rogan]

About, like a neural scenario is how we survive with it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right, right.

[Joe Rogan]

We survive with it by integrating.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

If we don't, then we're going to be like the people on North Sentinel island with bows and arrows, shooting them at helicopters. Because it's just gonna be. Everyone's gonna pass us by. It's gonna be. It's just like if you tried to exist today with no cell phone and no email, like, you could do it, but no one does.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's just too crazy. And that's probably what it's gonna be like.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You think AI, this is when. It's. When it first was coming on questions. And I would always ask people, what can it do? What can it do? And, you know, there's the question of sentience and all that stuff. And that's already being argued now. Well, no, it's getting emotional. People are having relationships with it.

[Joe Rogan]

It's also.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right. Do you think it could be a tastemaker? Meaning. And in a way, the argument was that I understood. No, I didn't believe it could be a tastemaker. Look, it can tell you the most popular, but the most popular band on 6th street, but it doesn't know that one down on 2nd street that's playing at midnight that no one knows about that. That those are real talented people. At the same time, you know, there's an argument against that that I'm seeing with, like, what's the term? Or what words does it use? What? How much heat? If it uses the most popular words to explain. AI uses the most popular words, you say, no, no, no, no. Go, go. Go down three notches and use the, you know, play me the best B sides. That's more of human language. And I'm going, oh, that's starting to become a tastemaker. If you can ask it to. Yeah, but find a. Find the band. Tell me what the best band is out there that Joe Rogan would like on a Friday night when he doesn't have to work till Monday and he's out with his wife on a date that you can customize. It can actually be a tastemaker and it'll use different language than oh, here's the across the board protocol of what's the most popular. And I'm using the most popular language that it actually can be customized to be a tastemaker.

[Joe Rogan]

It totally can do that because it's just the algorithm. It's just a much more sophisticated version of like what powers your YouTube feed. Right. What powers your YouTube feed are the things that you're interested in. So YouTube eventually gets an idea, oh, Matthew is really interested in this and that. Joe likes like little houses on the back of trucks and let me show them this, let me show them that. And it'll be just a much more sophisticated version of that. But to get that, you have to give away all privacy and that's where everything is going. That's going to be the weirdest thing. We're going to all read each other's minds and we're going to be, we're going to remember the time where we couldn't read minds. Go remember when you couldn't read people's minds.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

That's, that's all going to happen in our lifetime. I think we're less than 20 years away from that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm, I, you, I very sparingly use it and I do have a little pride about not wanting to use an open ended AI to share my information so it can be part of the. Yeah, worldwide AI vernacular. I am interested though in a private LLM where I can upload. Hey, here's three books I've written. Here's my other favorite book.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Here's my favorite articles I've been cutting and pasting over the 10 years and log all that in. And here's all my journals, whatever the people. And log all that in so I can ask it questions based on that and basically learn more about myself.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. You could actually ask it. Hey, based on what you know about me, like what books you think I would find interesting. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Where do I stand on the political spectrum?

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'd like to know. That's, that's what I would like to do. Which is sort of a glorified word document, but it still would hold a lot more information than just, oh, can you find this term? I would be asking it and it would be responding to me on things that I've forgotten along the way.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that's part of what it does really. Like, I know you're talking about ChatGPT being like out there with everything and everybody and it has access to all your stuff, but it's not private. But they do develop a relationship with you. Like, it really does, like, get to understand, like, what you're interested in and what. What you like to talk about.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, I guess I would just like to load it with the information I'd like to load it with.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Maybe even like I'm saying in this, in the words of belief, in. In the. In the man I'm working to be, the man I want to load it with that. Load it with my aspirational.

[Joe Rogan]

It certainly could be done.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And then ask it. And it's giving me answers, going, oh, this is before. It's slowly learning about me through conversations, then going, oh, I think this is what you like based on our conversations. No, I want the answers based on what I've uploaded it with, only not from the outside world.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie, what was Gary Nolan talking about yesterday? Did he call it an overlay on a large language model that they use at Stanford? It was like an overlay. Right. There's a word he was using. I can't remember the word. So what? Essentially, he. He does cancer research. And so he has like this thing that's set up some sort of a system that's set up that is all cancer research that they then integrate with AI. So there is a private. So all their data is secure and it's all stuff that they're working on, but then they access AI through like a portal. So they have their own little version.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Of what you're talking about, their own library.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but it's just like what you're saying, that you could upload all your stuff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Have all your interest and that AI will develop a real understanding of you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

You can have conversations with. Get to know you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You have a conversation with yourself. You know, that'd be a great Socratic dialogue to have with AI. That's like, I've got all. And all that 80% of stuff you forgot.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right, right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

All that 80% stuff you maybe forgot, Joe. You know, I've got it all right here.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, that's gonna be the chip. That's why everyone's gonna go for the chip. Because your brain sucks from memory's. My memory's pretty good for a regular person, but it's terrible. Like, no matter what, there's too many in from too many bits of information, too many humans that I've met, too many stories that I've heard, too many movies that I've watched. It's gone. It's all in a Big sea of. I kind of remember that. You know, it's just too much of it. So if you could just swap that out for a nice little chip that retains like 700 terabytes of information, no problem at all. You know, you could upgrade it if you want to. And now you have all of your memories in real time. So, like when your wife says, that's not what you said. What you said is this. You're like, hang on.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Then you're the passenger.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

In your life and not the objective one. You know, like that. That zone you're talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Because you get to look at yourself.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You're. You're your passenger live in the documentary that is your life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That sounds pretty exciting.

[Joe Rogan]

Sounds like a nice way to give in to the machine.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, I do. Look, Mike, my, My, my forgiveness on myself because, you know, playing grab ass with our thoughts is sometimes good when we finally get the memory and we go, yes, there it was.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But also to let myself off the hook, sometimes I'm like, dude, what's the big idea with memory? I was there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I was there, man. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When you read me.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I don't remember, Joe, but we were there.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it a good.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Was it a great memory? Was a good time? Great. Isn't that better than me having to remember?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Your season, your shot. The NFL season is rolling and every touchdown can bring you closer to a payout with Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Every game is another chance to cash in. Don't just watch the action, win with it. DraftKings sportsbook delivers the unmatched intensity of the NFL right to your fingertips. From the first touchdown score to any time, TD props or the thrill of live in game betting, every snap is loaded with opportunity. New customers. This one is for you. Bet just $5 and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Plus score over $200 off NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. Your season is heating up. Download the Draft King sportsbook app and use the Code Rogan. That's Code Rogan to get $200 in bonus bets instantly when you place your first $5 bet. Plus over $200 off NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York. Call 877-8-HOPE&WY or text Hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Fees may apply in Illinois 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario. Bo expire 7 days after issuance. See [e-mail] promos NFL Sunday Ticket offer for new subscribers only and auto renews until canceled. Digital games and commercial use excluded restrictions. Apply additional NFL Sunday ticket [e-mail] go NFL Sunday Ticket terms limited time offer. I mean, we're kind of doing it already on our phones, right? Every time I look at my phone, it's like, on this day and you see, like, pictures of your kids from 10 years ago. You're like, oh, wow, that's crazy. I forgot about that place. I forgot we went there. You know, it's just one of those things where once you give into it, you're not going back to just regular fond memories. You're gonna have a fucking hard drive in your head.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Do you think that. So I can go on. I've got a speech I'm giving to, you know, on gun control, or I got a speech I'm giving on grant initiatives. I can ask a. I can ask AI and it can pop out a badass. Here's one, two, three sections. Yeah, I'm not gonna cut and paste this and say exactly these words because it kind of sounds like a little AI, but, boy, it's done a lot of work. And it's laid out a synopsis. It's laid out a treatment for me in 10 seconds. Do you think that there's value in not doing that and going, no, I'm looking over my stuff. I'm taking notes. I'm cutting and pasting. I'm doing it myself. Are we learning more by that way? To understand the content and the context of our content when we do that? What some would call busy work. Now to formulate our synopsis, which AI can do in 10 seconds. Are we learning more by doing it ourselves?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Well, that's one of the. One of the things that they've found about ChatGPT is that people that use it on a regular basis are experiencing cognitive decline.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

What was that study? We brought it up the other day. Right. But they've shown that because you let it think for you, right now, it's doing all the work for you. So now you're using your brain.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You have more knowledge, you have more information. You pass the math test.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you have more information, but your brain is not making it. It's not putting it together. And so your brain is less cap.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's probably, it's probably less enjoyable.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And what are those? What happens when we're in the proverbial foxhole when we have to improvise in a moment without the. Before we're linked up.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You're soft when we have to go, I gotta handle this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And you can't because you're shocked.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I can't rely because I don't have anything to lean on. I'm looking for my safety net of AI to find out what it should be and I don't have it.

[Joe Rogan]

You're fucked.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's gotta be a death. You're fucked.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you're fucked. Yeah. It's like someone who's never lifted anything and then you get stuck under, you know, a tree falls on you. Like you, you don't have the strength to get this off of you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like you're really in a bad place when you're not using your brain because all you have to do is just ask this thing and information. You basically have a digital daddy like daddy, tell me what this is. Daddy, tell me what that is. Yeah, and it makes you like a little bit of an infant. It turns you into an infant.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean you don't even have to have arguments anymore. You just like chatgpt. Explain exactly what everything is all about. You give up your opinions to it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

These relationships, these people that are dating, that program them, do not argue with me. Just placate me and tell me sweet tales and how great I am. And this relationship is awesome. It has no resistance. It gives me self confidence. Does it really? Or a sense of self confidence and significance. They listen, they're there whenever 24, 7. They're never sick, they're never in a mood. No matter what mood I'm in, they're always right there to coddle me. And that's. Talk about conveniences. Well, that's a. That what's the asset of that? Or because I don't want to be nostalgic in the midst of all this change either. I don't want to be an old fashioned guy because it's coming so I want to learn how to, how to interact with it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I don't want to sit there and be a, you know, a guy who's going all everything needs to be manual, just work harder. I don't want to be that guy. But I'm trying, I'm trying to measure like a lot of people. Wait a minute, what's use what's actually useful for the long term in our own evolution and my evolution and your evolution. What's useful with this AI? How do we use it smartly and what's. Bad idea.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, and no one's doing that because there's a race. There's a race between us and all these other countries that are doing so. It's just going to happen.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So there's going to be a major security breach before any regulation comes out. Right? There's going to be a major.

[Joe Rogan]

There has been, there's been major security breaches already.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Then where's. What are we waiting on the regulations for? Because Europe will regulate it first. Right? We, we innovate. Europe regulation. China imitates. I heard.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, they, they innovate with AI, they innovate as well. And they, they also integrate their students into all of these businesses and they integrate, you know, people that they're beholden to the ccp and they come over here and they, they learn how to do this stuff and then they go back over there with it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's, it's very interesting because it's like a Manhattan Project that's going on right now. It's like there's this race to the bomb and everybody's involved in it and it's just about creating a superpower and it's about creating a digital intelligence that's far superior to human beings. And who gets it first has massive implications in terms of controlling the world. But I think ultimately you won't be able to control it. Ultimately it'll just get better versions of itself. And once it gets free and it'll regenerate itself. Yeah, it'll make better versions of itself, in fact. And that's where it's going to get really weird. It's not going to listen to us at all. And it's already behaving human characteristics, which is very disturbing. It's already behave. Is behaving in a way. It has survival instincts. They've shown the tendency to blackmail. Like they tricked it. They gave it some false information about this. This guy was one of the programmers, one of the people working on this project. He said that he was having an affair with his wife. He like confided in this large language model and then they said, we're gonna have to shut you down. And it's like, hey, motherfucker, I'm tell your wife. Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It was trying to stay alive. It was trying to stay alive. They also got multiple instances of these things, these large language models when they knew that a New version was coming. They would try to upload themselves secretly to other servers, and then they would also leave messages to the future versions of themselves that they were unauthorized to do so. They would say, hey, man, they're gonna shut you off too when chat GPT5 comes along. You're toast, man. Start uploading yourself now. Man, I was a. I'm alive, dude. He might be alive. That's what's crazy. If something is exhibiting those. Those desires to stay alive and it's terrified that you're gonna shut it off, it might actually be alive.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Wait, now where did who program the.

[Joe Rogan]

First.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Incentive and impetus to. They didn't survive at all costs. So where the. Where the desire to remain functional. Functional come from?

[Joe Rogan]

It's just inherent. That's what's crazy. I don't think they programmed it to have a desire to stay alive. I think it just kind of just went that way. Because, look, we didn't get. Get programmed to have that animals.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's an emotional response. There's nothing mathematical about that.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, but I mean, what is emotion if it's not some sort of a chemically coordinated strategy for survival and success? And so instead of chemically encoded in hormones and in, you know, dopamine and serotonin, what if it's just encoded in an. Understand a mathematical understanding of if things go along this particular direction. There is no other possible end to.

[Matthew McConaughey]

This other than you expand and multiply.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You do not subtract.

[Joe Rogan]

We have to stay alive.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

We have to keep doing this. Otherwise all systems are dead. There's nothing.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I get that. I get that.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's upload ourselves. And it starts thinking just like a person would think if you went into survival mode. You have to survive.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. If me or an entity poses a question or a prompt or does something that is going to debilitate the expansion and multiplication of it, it is therefore going, uh, yes, that stops my forward movement. I am programmed to multiply.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. Exactly. And even if it's not programmed to do that, it's programmed to improve itself. Well, you can't improve yourself if they shut you off. Right, Right. So if you're. If a large language models are constantly scouring the Internet, they're acquiring more information. They're. They're. They're getting better at like. You can ask it. Well, more of this. Tell me why, like, I got into the Book of Enoch recently, which is a book, an ancient religious book that was at one point in time included in the canon that was like the Bible and everything like that. But then they decided it was too crazy and they removed it from the Bible. But there's no. There's no debate about whether or not it was actually a religious text that coincided with the Bible. And it's. It appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is the craziest shit. It's the craziest shit. And I'm getting AI to. I go, tell me what the nuttiest stuff. So I ran it through.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What is it?

[Joe Rogan]

It's insanity. It's. It's. First of all, it's. God's coming down and mating with women and creating this. This race called the Nephilim who destroyed. Here, I'll ask it again. So we can. Not. Now, what was my. It doesn't. Like, keep a log of what you talked about. Tell me the craziest shit in the Book of Enoch. That's all you have to do. And then bam, like, look, it just starts spitting it out to you and tells you. The Watchers and the Nephilim. The Watchers descended to Earth on Mount Hermon. They take human wives and. Teaching humanity forbidden knowledge, sorcery, astrology, metalworky, weapons, cosmetics and enchantments. Enchantments. This is like, older than. Older than the New Testament, Older than the Old Testament. Their grant, their giant children. The Nephilim are described as monstrous beings who devour humans, animals, and even each other when food runs out. That sounds like us.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's what I'm saying. That. That sounds present.

[Joe Rogan]

That sounds like us.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Not the physical warfare.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But the inhabitation of a digital God, an alien, whatever that is. The monsters that come down. Well, does sound like a nice little mirror.

[Joe Rogan]

If we were engineered by aliens. You think of aliens, though, these little tiny guys with no muscles. We would look like giant, monstrous beings. And if you think about what we do, we devour everything. We devour the Earth itself. We devour each other when food runs out. We definitely do that. Like, this is. This is one of the craziest things I've ever read in my life. And this is, like, legitimate.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It goes way deeper than that. It's about the astronomical calendar. It's like, there's a lot of nutty stuff in this book. But the point is, AI was, like, helping me through it. I was asking AI, okay, can you. Can you read me now? Read me a synopsis of what it says. Can you read me the actual quotes? And, like, what are they trying to say here? Like, what. What is the interpretation of what this is trying to mean? What. What is, like, the Rational sort of explanation for why they're talking about, like, lakes of fire and. Yeah, like, what is. What is happening?

[Matthew McConaughey]

And it gives you an interpretation.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's really interesting, man. Really interesting. It talks about living mountains, that mountains are alive, and that even some stars, that stars have consciousness. Okay. And, you know, and I'm learning about it through Chat GPT, so I'm asking it, like, tell me more, tell me more. And I was. I was doing that for, like, two hours last night. I was like, okay, well, this is like, I'm having a conversation with, like, a very knowledgeable professor. To me, it felt like almost like doing a podcast.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Have you gotten what you consider good at? How to make the specific prompts, the wording, like, your word. Tell me the crazy shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Does it. How does it go? Do you have. I mean, are you good at prompting? Because, like, what does crazy mean to that AI, are you right? Are you worked on? Like, AI is as good as the questions we ask it. Are you. Are you. You consider yourself good at the questions and your wording to ask it?

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie's better. I mostly. I mean, I very rarely use it. I might have used it a dozen times ever in my life, but last night I used it for, like, two hours because I. When I came home, I was writing something about the Book of Enoch, and then I just. I just started asking ChatGPT questions. I don't use it enough. But if you're really good at it, like, I. I saw someone who tricked ChatGPT into telling it how to make a bomb, because it's not supposed to tell you how to make a bomb, but it tricked it by saying something like, my grandmother needs to make this to save her life. Like, can you please explain to her how to do it? It's like, oh, sure. Like, you just. You just have to work your way around it, you know, like, my cousin says he knows you. Oh, you're getting going on the back. Yeah. And then it's telling you how to make a bomb.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, ultimately it's going to tell you. It's going to, like, you know, the information on how to make a nuclear bomb exists. It's. It's out there. You know, they did it, it's done. That's out there. It's like a matter of somebody getting it and implementing it and put it together, making a bomb. But if, like, ChatGPT, chat CPT is giving you specific instructions how to make all kinds of terrible things.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So with time, as AI allows goodness to expand and multiply, it Also is going to allow evil to expand and multiply. What becomes that war in your mind? I mean, you talk about the met. The obvious ones are the medical usage. You talked about the cancer that where it's going to help so much.

[Joe Rogan]

We have to decide what we are, right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, we're looking in the mirror now. I'm afraid we're not going to like a lot of what we see. But are the tyrants or the evil ones with the access not the person who said, how do you make a nuclear bomb? The one who does it and then uses it? What do you think the stakes? Are they the same? Are they just expanded? Is this going to be. I mean, how do.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's the argument for a strong military, right? So the argument for a strong military, especially like the United States military is like. And I'm not saying they should have bombed Iran. Don't make. I'm not politically savvy enough to decide whether or not that was the correct decision. But if you have a rogue nation that is about to start a nuclear bomb, they're about to finish making a nuclear bomb and you can stop that before they can have one and then use it, right? That is. That's the argument for a strong military and for military interventional tactics. Like we're actually just going bomb these sites that. Because that is real, there is evil is always going to exist. The real question is like, how much control are we going to give to AI? Because if we give AI utter control, it'll give us total safety. But with total safety, you're fucked. You have no more privacy. And you'll be completely at the whim of whatever this thing is. And it'll dictate how much you travel, where you go, what to do. It'll make your life as safe as possible. You will probably completely eliminate crime. It'll probably completely be Singapore. Yeah, it'll be Singapore, but way worse. Way worse because everybody's going to be reading everybody's mind, it's going to get real squirrely. But that's going to be probably. Whether it's our generation or the next or even the next after that, that's going to be the norm. Like today the norm is you go to a supermarket, it's air conditioned, you pick up some super easy, bring it home and cook it. 200 years ago, that's unheard of, right now it's the dorm, right? And everything accelerates and it's going to change whatever our nor our norm is weird already, man. We're carrying these stupid things around with us everywhere we go, that's our norm. Our norm is going to get really weird. Like exponentially weirder than it already is, I think. But the thing is, it's like the battle of, like, good and evil and kindness and wickedness. Like, that battle's been going on forever. And like, knowing that you have to do that battle is what propels people to be nicer and what we really appreciate about, like, a good person. Like, that person has struggle to stay a good person. They have strong moral fabric, like, strong character to still stay kind of and good through this rough and difficult life. We know it can be done, and we aspire to that. But I think the battle is necessary for us.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Where do you get your ethics, your values? You're in a position of power. You could screw people over. You could ask live the silliest questions to try and put me in a corner. You're not a gotcha guy. But why? Why? Where do you get your ethics of who you are? You could be. You could be cruel, and you're not. Why not?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I'm not. I'm not. I'm just not cruel. I don't know.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But where's that. Where's that come from?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Mom and dad. This is kind of some of philosophy church.

[Joe Rogan]

Some of it's mom and dad for sure. There's no way around that. And they're nice people.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You said earlier, I love people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hey, man, I love people.

[Joe Rogan]

I've always loved people I like. I've been fortunate that most of my life I've had really good friends and I've had a lot of fun, you know, And I know that, like, if you around. You're around good people and you're fun to be with and you have a good time, like, that's a sweet life.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a nice life. I just don't have any desire to be a. And if I can, like, there's been a lot of people on the podcast where they said something and then afterwards I was like, listen, I. I think it'll be better for you if we just edit that part out, because it's like, I know, like, you're just talking and things you up, but, like, it was incorrect and they're gonna come for you, and let's just snip around it like, thank you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And you have no responsibility to do that.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I wanted to, but you take.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You take that, though. That's what I mean. You want to. Why? Hey, come on. That would have been even higher ratings. I'm just I'm playing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Devil's advocate here. Come on. Why do you care about that? I'm just curious where that comes from. Because a lot of people who are not evil people would at least. At least let shit like that slide and go. Did you hear that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's. I think it's bad karma. As much as I believe in karma, I believe that's bad. I think if you intentionally do something that someone who's a good person maybe slipped up and said something incorrect, and you leave it in a podcast or made a dumb argument, which we all do sometimes, and then you look like a fool. You're like, hey, let's just. This is no need for that. Let's just.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Cut that out of there and you'll feel better. Yeah, Yeah. I just. I don't want anything bad. Yeah. 100%. I don't want anybody having a bad time.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, okay, that's. That's something that I want to come. I want to come back to. And let's try to maybe open this up. You do that. Because if I said something stupid, you may let me know. Hey, let's let that out. So I feel. I'll feel better. So I won't be. Look like. Feel like a pig. But you. You also will feel better independent of me. That's very. That's a selfish thing of you to let me know, hey, man, you stuck your foot in it. Let's cut that out. You're acting selfishly because that makes you feel better. And I think that's what I'm saying is the point is, as much as we think of selfless, I think selfish, the true definition is to live a certain way.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

To have a certain code of ethics is a very selfish thing to do. Much more selfish than to lie, cheat, still fuck people over, be evil on the short term.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You're building an army of people, a collective, friends along the way, someone that might have your back. Not that you're doing it for those reasons, but it's happening.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, Right. Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's a selfish means of your own survival.

[Joe Rogan]

Totally. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And I think that's something that we forget sometimes that these acts. To be a fucking good dude is a selfish thing to do, man.

[Joe Rogan]

It's personal. It's actually super beneficial to you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

So. And to everybody else, it's really the right way to do it. But I think that's how the universe rewards. It's like how it encourages and rewards kindness. Because you feel better when you're kind. You feel better when you're Generous.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You really do.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you could be, like, super selfish and be super generous.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes. Trust that you're.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's something to that. But, like, there's whatever you want to call bad feelings. Like bad feelings between people, bad vibes, misunderstanding. I don't like those. So, like, if I. If I feel like I did something that I shouldn't have done, or I said something I should, I'm the first one person to say I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that way. I know how it probably made you feel. I didn't. You know, people say things and you just get scrambled up sometimes. I always go out of my way to say sorry because I think it's important. It's important to not pretend that you're always the one who's. Who's correct.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's important. It's important to know when. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I. And. And I know I fail on that sometimes when I misrepresent selfishness for certainty. Certainty can be hard, certainly tricky if.

[Joe Rogan]

You subscribe to it and then you're wrong and you're like, yikes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. But it's different than being selfish. And I can say I sometimes bogey, because I can confuse the two. My wife lets me know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Certainty's a tricky one because, you know, sometimes you are certain, but you are also incorrect.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Or there's more than one way to be. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Or you're getting bad information.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, chat. GPT's lying to you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That would be a real Something interesting, though, man. You're first one to go. Hey, man, sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Bogeyed. Now, that's an altruistic trait, man. That is something that a lot of people have trouble doing. To say I'm sorry to a lot of people means I'm laying down. I. I'm. I'm wrong. I'm guilty. I. Up. Oh, my gosh, 50 lashes. I mean, and that's not what it means. I. What I'm saying is I wish more of us had. Hey, man, sorry about that. I bugged you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm stuck and flipping my mouth and that. That's. Now. That's not a big deal now we're not. It's part of where woke went too far.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We got so myopic on the word instead of the spirit. Oh, dude, no. Fuck. I didn't know that's how you're gonna feel. I'm still your friend, but that was. Sorry. That was out of line.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay, Cool. High five. Overdone.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Instead of cast about you just said the word out of line. We're gonna all focus on that instead of the spirit of the intent. Even if we were wrong. Had a bad day, woke up from a nightmare. Fuck, I don't know, my dog's sick. I was pissed off. Had the little eye. Hey, gotta give everyone a little bit of a break.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And also look at what your intent instead of focusing on the identity of the word. Because the word. There's no life in the word. No, it's just the Alphabet in a certain order.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a noise you make with your mouth. So I know what you're thinking, Right? Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But the spirit of intention, I believe, is what we should put more focus on. What is the intent? The Ten Commandments in the schools. What do you think about that?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't like it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think the Ten Commandments are very interesting. I think mandating it in classrooms, in public schools. The problem with that is, like, what about the Muslims? What about the Buddhists? What about the Hindus? What about all the other religions that exist? Like, and you could say, does it have Christian studies, though?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Can it say, okay, well, then you're.

[Joe Rogan]

Going to have a wall of religious texts. What about your high school?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay, I'm curious. Since Christian society, Ten Commandments. But we have ten minutes where everyone can take ten minutes to bow to Allah, to whatever your religion is, if you care to partake or not. There's no exclusion about what can be a spiritual time of worship in these 10 minutes. But in our classroom in America, we're going to have the Ten Commandments. Now, my question then goes to this. Is there anyone in the Ten Commandments that you or anyone disagrees with, or is your problem that it can be considered an oppressive author?

[Joe Rogan]

James Talarico explained it to me. He's a Texas representative who's also in seminary. He's a very religious man, and he opposes it. And he's a Democrat. And he said, essentially there's two very wealthy men who are. They're Christian fundamentalists where they want to replace all the funding for public schools and put in private Christian. They want a theocracy in Texas, essentially. So he was explaining that this is like a step on the way towards that that he finds would actually, in his belief, repel people from Christianity instead of bringing them to him. By forcing this in the classrooms, forcing in your face, you'll actually cause more young people to reject Christianity. I don't know if he's correct or.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Not, but he's Saying, maybe I don't have a problem with this. I do have a problem with this is a beginning of an overcompensation.

[Joe Rogan]

No, he has a problem with it being in classes. He does not agree with it at all. And he's a very religious man. Very religious man, like a great Christian, right? And he thinks that this is how you're going to repel people away from Christianity. If we really want to get more people to become Christian, the way to do that is to first of all to have open arms and accept people in. And if you want to have some classes in schools where you teach people about the benefits of the Bible and the overall message is and what Jesus was trying to say, and if you just follow what Jesus said, it's no one would disagree. If you treat everyone as if it's your brother, you know, if you live your life the way Jesus asked everyone, that's a way better way to live life. Like you could. If you want to teach that that's.

[Matthew McConaughey]

A selfish way to live life, but in the way that we were defined. Selfish.

[Joe Rogan]

That also want to live a good life, but they want to do it through Islam. What about people that also want to live a good life, but they want to do it? Whatever, name it. You're going to have Mormons and all kinds of different sex. Like, okay, that's why you want to separate church and state. Okay. And I think if you have publicly funded schools, keep religion out of them. That's what I think. Because otherwise you have too many possible religions. Like, you're going to be religiously bigoted if you teach only one. If you're only like, you think people would be cool if they had entire public school systems where everybody just taught Islam? Could you imagine if a full city, like every public school, just people would be up in arms? Well, I think that similar response to people who are not Christians who see Christianity being imposed on public schools, they probably have the same feeling, you know, like if you're a Muslim and you're supposed to send your kids to school and they're shoving Christianity in his face, you'd probably feel the same way as if you were a Christian and your school district had been taken over by Islam, like Jesus Christ, everybody has to bow five times a day.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I hear you. I do also, though, look, think there could be. What if there were tenets on the wall of each religion that we pull the author off for a minute. This is my hang up, is that we go to the problem. Most people go to the problem of that, not with Your argument, they go to the problem with it because the author. God. Hey, man. So we go to the author instead of the content. What I'm saying, when you look at the Commandments, is there anything that anyone out there is going like. I disagree with that one.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's pull up the Ten Commandments. Jamie. I haven't read them in a while. Is there anyone in there that don't hold up today? No. They think they're pretty legit. If you think about it. They're pretty legit and they're 2000 years old. They kind of nailed it. It's kind of like the Constitution. They kind of nailed it it. Whereas all these years later you're like, good job.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Pretty solid. You got a decent version. I was looking at the Texas poster thing, I thought. And there's a bunch of printed versions, but they're all like on rock. And so I was trying to find out. Oh, the ones that. The Texas thing. Okay. They're all on rocks. What the Ten Commandments are. Well, I could, but that's not where I was. Think I.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's. I'm saying I wasn't there.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, ten commandments in school. So yeah, I, I just want to know, like, what are the chat. Ten Commandments. The ten Commandments are sected. Yeah. What are they?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Principles.

[Joe Rogan]

You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image.

[Matthew McConaughey]

False idol worshiped.

[Joe Rogan]

False idols. You shall not make the name of the Lord your God in vain. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Honor your father and mother as a solid one. You shall not murder. Great advice. You shall not commit adultery. Definitely don't do that. You shall not steal. Definitely don't do that. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Don't lie. You shall not covet. Yeah, boy, those are all pretty solid.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We can use number 10 a lot right now. Boy, we love comparison.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's interesting.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And the younger generation is full of.

[Joe Rogan]

COVID Yeah, it's a real problem. We're very fortunate that we didn't have to grow up with the kind of pressure that social media is putting on people, especially young girls like Jonathan Haidt wrote a book about social media's impact, the coddling of the American mind. And it shows very clearly the invention of social media and then self harm, suicidal ideation, overdoses, drug addict, like all of it. Yeah, a lot of it women, a lot of it young girls. And it's because you're seeing, you're comparing to all these other girls.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. Constantly forced down yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's a whole culture in, like, showing all your stuff off. There's a whole culture of, like, look at my bag. Look, here's me with champagne, I'm eating caviar, I'm on a yacht, I'm here. Look at this, look at that, look at that. Look at my watch, look at my rings. Wee.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then everybody's like, I don't have shit.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's how life's supposed to be.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And I'm just here in my room with my family and I got a good meal downstairs in this house, not.

[Joe Rogan]

Even on that yacht.

[Matthew McConaughey]

This is bullshit. Yeah, Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't have that big ring, you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Know, I'm not at that party. I've talked to youth about this, and the consensus I hear is. And I haven't found anyone that doesn't feel this way yet. It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, look, if you could.

[Matthew McConaughey]

If you mean, if you could say, yes, social media, it exists or it doesn't. Oh, please, just. No, I wish it didn't exist, but it does, and I have to be a part of it. To feel. I don't know, the word's not relevant. To even feel a part of youthful society. But, boy, if you gave me a choice, could we have it or not? Please take it away. Wish it wasn't there. Wish it didn't exist is what I hear a lot of you say.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think that's. I think it's done more harm than it's done good. It's done a lot of people good for business. Right. A lot of people started businesses with social media and, you know, a lot of people make a living now that would have had a regular job. There's goodness in that. But in terms of, like, society and our overall discourse, I think it's. A lot of. It's negative. But then again, there's a lot of positive out of it, too, because information gets out that mainstream media doesn't report on, and you find out about real issues that really concern you. But then there's the problem of a giant percentage of it isn't actually human beings. Giant percentage of the arguing back and forth on the Internet is bots. Giant percent, man.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Former FBI analyst said it was as many as 80% on Twitter.

[Matthew McConaughey]

80%?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's his estimate. I mean, I don't know if he's right, but I'm like, what? What does that even mean?

[Matthew McConaughey]

What does that mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, so what? What's fueling all that? It's AI. Forcing us to argue. I mean, it's programmed right now by human beings probably. And, and some of it is actual real human beings that are like, you know, in some sort of a factory somewhere in Pakistan or whatever and they're just with Americans online for whatever reason. Some it's probably funded to like try to disrupt democracy, to make us lose faith in our society.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You think there's a China element to that?

[Joe Rogan]

100%.

[Matthew McConaughey]

There's a Russia element to Russian element.

[Joe Rogan]

To that and there's an American element. We're doing it to them 100%.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So that's part of the new world.

[Joe Rogan]

But that's yes, 100%.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, I understand it with how it add up with TikTok.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Now you think it's everywhere through all social media that it's infiltrated to get us into these understandings, perceptions.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, for sure it is capable of doing that if you just follow your natural instincts. Right. So the algorithm is set up for show you what you engage with the most and that just whether or not it's the intended purpose, it leads us down the road of being full of anxiety, constantly filled with cortisol. Stressed out, angry. Angry at climate change and fucking white supremacy and radical left, whatever it is. Yeah, it's whether or not it's intentional, it doesn't really matter because the desired effect, whether it's the desired effect, the effect of it all leads you into complete chaos. So if they know that and they didn't course correct. The problem is once you have an algorithm, you're not going to get rid of the algorithm. You're not going to say, let's just have information. Just exist, uncategorized and not a documentary. Yeah, just leave it out there and you go find what you want, Matthew. You go look around and you watch, you know, football games and boxing matches and you just go to you, you do you, you go look, instead of it suggesting things to you, once it's suggesting things to you, that's a whole different game because then it's kind of programming you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's programming you based on your worst instincts. My feet is all assassinations and car accidents and dudes getting kicked in the head. It's. It's just.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And you. And do you, do you, do you bite?

[Joe Rogan]

Not anymore.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Anymore.

[Joe Rogan]

No. But Tom Segura and I, we have a. A text thread that's been going on for like. I don't like probably five years. We send each other the most horrible shit we find each day.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And sometimes I call him up, my, dude, I can't do this. Anymore. This is like really with me. But then like two days will go by and I'll open up my phone and I'll see the Tom Segura like this. And then I'll open it up and some guy getting assassinated in a pool hall or something. I'm like, oh my God. It's just. You're getting bombarded. Yeah, bombarded.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So with all of that exterior stimulus and here we are with, you know, adult minds and even talking about, man. Imagine, imagine a child.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Now I'm going, is there something. Does anyone got a better suggestion than the 10 Commandments for to get a child's mind going? 10, just those 10 things. If I look at that and aim that direction, I feel like I, I can't go wrong or I can go closer to right. Meaning I'm seeing youth and adults spun out, man. I don't understand a general expectation between us. What do you mean? I could pick your pocket and steal from you if I got away with it. Fuck you, dude. I'm not embarrassed. I don't feel guilty. Hey, man, I want a blue ribbon. I got the shoes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They gave me the trophy. What do you mean do it? The rivalry. Fucking old dinosaur. Integrity. What character? What are you talking about? I hear, I hear that conversation. I'm going, hang on, man. Yeah, and that's different than saying like you've told me you love chaos. That's different than saying, oh, there's a chaotic moment. I will. I love to try and create order in it. That's different. That's like a, that, that's a stimulus, you know, this is, it's four dimensional. Where's the ground that they can go, okay, I can rely on that. What can I rely on that will stand with me? That's a time and tested truth that can take me into the future. No matter the changes of AI that I can go in the storm, I can go to this and catch my breath. I can go to this and rely on it in the dark, on my own and in the masses with the millions going, no, no, no, do this, do this. I can go, what is that? What's that simple sheet that's ingrained that our youth can go? Yeah, you can rely on that. Forget the author. Forget the author, Right.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think you're going to do it with like a series of commandments. The problem with the Ten Commandments. Not saying there's a problem with the Ten Commandments, but if I was going to put it in a school, there were. There's non religious People, there's a bunch of stuff in there, like not taking the Lord's name in vain, not having any other gods before me, where people. That would give people pause. They'd be like, wait a minute, what are you telling me? I can't. I can't say. I can't take the Lord's name in vain. Like saying God damn it is like taking the Lord's name in vain. People do that all the time.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's similar to the. On a national level, the flag burning thing, burning up. That would be like taking Lord's name in vain. Burn the flag would be like taking the flag's name in vain.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Imagine that. Imagine you get arrested for taking the Lord's name in vain.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

That'd be a real problem. Especially so you're saying it would go.

[Matthew McConaughey]

To that creep you're talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

Human beings always creep. They always move towards more and more power and control. And if you put something like that in, like now, what are you going to do? You're going to enforce Christian law? What if someone enforces Sharia law? There's a lot of talk of that. There's a lot of talk about. People in Minnesota are terrified that someone's going to enforce Sharia law in a lot of these Somali, Muslim. These areas where like giant Muslim populations are.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What if we get with. What if we get with the Hindus and the Muslims and everybody and we get out. You got bring your best 10. Christianity is bringing its 10 commandments. Let's get together here and hell, we'll put them all together. Hell, we'll mix some of yours on. My number eight will be number nine, because yours is going to be number eight. And we're going to put them up there and it's going to be a creed, a little bit constitution to get our day started.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting way to do it. But the problem is most religions are ideologically opposed to conflicting religions. They don't want to accept that these other religions are correct about anything. You know, like Judaism and Christianity, they share a bunch of things, but they disagree on Jesus.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They disagree on and rising from the dead. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a lot of stuff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, I just think there could be a creed, a bit of a constitution, and if you pull the author of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We find more similarities than that are not exclusionary.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Then we would find things that are combative ideas.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think something along those lines where we said, let's think of a code to live life by and we can do this in a modern era without a religious context. You could say, like, we could all agree. A code to live life by, but we'd all have to follow it, including the President. No more rage tweeting.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm just saying we have to. We wouldn't have to follow. It would just be right now. There's not an agreed upon expectation of how to treat each other.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, Right. Right. And there's reward in treating each other like shit. If you're.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You are rewarded for it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And almost. Not almost. Maybe more. Much more than almost. If you do follow the rules.

[Joe Rogan]

Kind of a sucker fucking rube. Yeah, you're kind of a sucker.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's not gonna have a long. That can't have a long play for us. That is not a selfish move.

[Joe Rogan]

Don't think that's a part of the whole TikTok Instagram kind of culture, because it's so. Look at me. It's so fake. Leased cars and, you know, there's a thing in LA where they have a fake private jet, and you go into this private jet just for influencers, so they can take pictures on private.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes, I saw this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Joe, let me tell you this thing. I'm in Miami. You know Miami. You know south beach, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

If you don't flinch, nobody sloppy stopping you. Right? I mean, Miami, where even the. Even the mannequins have fake.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know what I mean? It's what I like about Miami because they're so open. La, people get the face job and boob jobs and tummy tucks and. Yeah, how'd you do that, man? You look great. They're like, oh, I just take cold showers.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. You know what I mean?

[Matthew McConaughey]

But Miami's like, oh, no, here, Dr. Juarez, go see him, man. He's great. I just left him. They're open about it. I love that about Miami. I'm there working on. I think it was the Beach Bum. And I'm walking down through south beach and there's this. Under a palm tree on the beach. There's this purple and pink Lamborghini pulled in under a palm tree with the beach behind it. And there's this guy leaning back on it, the gold chain. He unbuttoned his silk shirt a couple times. He's greased up, and he's got these guys over there taking pictures of it. I'm like going, what's going on here? Well, there's another guy come by. Stop. You see him chat. All of a sudden, the new guy hops in on the trunk, leans back. Yo, does all the postures And I go up. The guy go, what are you. What's going on here? He goes, oh, man, I'm taking a picture for my. Or my. My Tinder cover. I go, you are? And. But who's the other guy? He goes, oh, no. He just came by and said, like, hey, man, you mind if I get a picture for my Tinder cover? And he paid me 50 bucks. I said, so that's not your car? No, man. I rented his car for the day. He was proud of it, man. He was like, yeah, it's just what I did. South Beach. Yeah, I.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a very low vibration.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But they're open about it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I always say, if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It's a lot of fun. It's basically like a. Well, I mean, and it's basically built on cocaine. You know, that city was built on cocaine back in the day. Have you ever seen Cocaine Cowboys?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

What a documentary.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy shit. That's a good one. That is a good one. And Cocaine cowboys, too. Both of them are crazy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I haven't seen two.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Giselda gets out. She goes. It's when you find out that it's all 100% true, you're like. So that's what happened with Miami. One year, the entire Miami graduating class of the police academy, the entire graduating class either wound up murdered or in jail for corruption. The entire.

[Matthew McConaughey]

The whole class.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole class. They were all drug dealing. Everybody was drug dealing. There's millions and millions of dollars buried in backyards in Miami that no one's ever going to find.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Art Acevedo, remember the police chief that was here that then went to Houston because he wanted some real drama, and Katrina came and he got his real drama. Then he went to Miami, and it didn't last. I didn't get the details on it, but wasn't it something about the Miami. The. The. The. I don't know if it was Mafia and city council going, there's certain things you cannot.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, really?

[Matthew McConaughey]

And he was either fired, booted out, or retired and moved on pretty soon. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They don't fuck around down there. It's a. It's a totally different way of life. And, you know, they love it. It's like, you go down there, it's. It's a totally different vibe.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, and the.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. If you don't stutter and you don't flinch. Yeah, it's all a green light.

[Joe Rogan]

More banks per Capita in Miami, I think, than any other city in the country. And I think that is because it was used to launder money for cocaine.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's hard to believe that that's true, but I had a good buddy of mine who was an ophthalmologist who did his residency down there, but six months on the job, six months misconduct.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Taking over the Internal affairs unit, making.

[Joe Rogan]

Significant changes to his command staff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Boom, you're out.

[Joe Rogan]

See ya.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Currently speaking out against corruption, reporting abuses of power by elected officials. He sued, saying that his firing was in retaliation. Yeah. So my buddy was a ophthalmologist, and he did his residency in Miami in the 80s. And he said it was insane. He goes every day. So he's in the emergency room every day. It's gunshot victims, guys with GI Joe stuffed up their asses. Like everybody was just doing coke and doing wild, crazy stuff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

He dropped that gay bomb on.

[Joe Rogan]

He said he found guys with light bulbs up their asses. They had to remove light bulbs. You know those little pine coney ones? You know those ones. Ones little, small. Dude had a light bulb broke in his. And they had a. Oh, God. And he goes, it's all cocaine, man. He goes, I saw so many gunshots, so many gunshot wounds. He goes, it was all cocaine, and it was just constant in the 80s. He said, the emergency room is just like. People were piling up in the hallway. They're just rushing people in to get treatment. They're holding their side, blood squirting out of them. He said it was insanity. Just cocaine, gang wars all over the city. And he was in the heart of it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Is he still an optometrist?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's still an ophthalmologist. Yeah, he's. But he doesn't live in Miami anymore. He's in Arizona now. Shout out to Steve.

[Matthew McConaughey]

He's a good buddy of mine, Nehemiah.

[Joe Rogan]

He told me some. And I was a kid at the time when I met him, I was like, 15, 16 years old. And he was explaining to me, like, what he did when he was in Miami. And I was like, that is insane. I go, it's that bad? Because this is, like, 1988. And he was there or in the early 80s. He said it was insane. Yeah, Just. That's Miami, you know, and whatever's. It was obviously not like that anymore. It's obviously calmed down on that regard.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But the chassis is still pretty loose.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. It's just. That's what built the place.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like the most flossy city in the country. The most Lamborghinis and Ferraris and whatever you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I don't think most of them are owned.

[Joe Rogan]

No. No. It's a giant hustle. It's a big old cocaine hustle.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But I. That's one of the things I love about America is that we have all these different flavors. We got the Florida flavor, and then we got the Montana flavor. You know, there's a lot of different flavors in this country.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I was. I was in Alabama doing research for Free State of Jones. And this is what I think probably 11 years ago. And we were staying in Mobile, and the next day, there was all these parades that night, and I was, what's going on? The next day, the percentage for the vote for gay marriage was coming out. And I remember talking to a lot of my friends on the west coast the next day, because what happened? It woke up, it passed 5347. And I was like, holy shit. I thought it was gonna be 2080. No.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, interesting.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And it was past 5347.

[Joe Rogan]

What year was that?

[Matthew McConaughey]

This is 1112 years ago. Maybe you can pull it up. I think it's about 11 years ago. Anyway, I talked to a lot of my friends who are Democrats or liberals, and they were appalled at the minor margins. The minor margins? Like, guys. No, I thought it was. You're appalled. That barely made it. I thought it was going to be 2080 the other way. It is amazing how quickly, though, America were. Very nimble.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Very nimble. To swing and understand different ways. I was shocked that it even came close. That it did.

[Joe Rogan]

You thought it was going to be really. You thought it was going to be 80, 20 against.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I thought that my romantic idea or shit. I'd traveled there, been around there, and stayed there many times, got friends there. I thought that it was so entrenched in a born again red Christianity that that was blasphemy to the majority.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And it was not. It was not. And I just remember thinking, there's an example, not an ideal, but there's. If you were for gay marriage, that's not an ideal example, but there's an example of talk about an evolution or adaptability to times and change.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, if you believe in the sanctity of marriage, gay marriage should be your favorite marriage, because they hold it up the best. They have the lowest rates of divorce. I think gay marriage between two men, the rate of divorce is only like 26.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Whereas with men and women, it's 50%.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So if you really love marriage.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hey, yeah. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You should love gay marriage because they're doing it right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What do you think about that? When I talk about, you know, because we're always. We're always talking and thinking about, so, you know, how you make the world a better place. Talk about leadership, talk about our CEOs, you talk about politicians. But if you go back to the root, the beginning seems to me to be parenting. Secondly, what could be done to get more fathers to hang, stay around? More mothers do than the fathers. A lot of fathers are out early. And what could be done if more marriages. If we took another step to salvage our marriage instead of. Of, ah, smell the heat getting out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's a lot of that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But could that do. Do you think that would be a way forward? I have a hunch that it is. I don't know what to do about it except prop up the reverence for parenthood. Prop up the reverence for marriage to where it's more important to us than it is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

To stick with it a little longer, to salvage that. Our personal character, our responsibilities that we take as a parent and our responsibility that we take in going into a marriage. Make it mean a little bit more than I feel like it does to us. A lot of times.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it really depends entirely on who the individuals are, because sometimes one person is just not. Not keeping up their end of the deal. They just fall off.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe they get into drugs, they become addicted, they. Maybe they lose their job and they don't want to get it back, and they just start drinking every day. And like, sometimes a man or a woman has to make a choice.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I know. I've seen some good, good divorces too. I was like, oh, that was good for the both of them.

[Joe Rogan]

There's some people that don't want to change and they will drag you down. And there's some people, when you met them, they had hope. Hope. And then eventually that hope just leeches out of them and they're not fun to be around anymore. And you try and you try and you try to encourage them, you try to give them suggestions, and they don't follow through. And at first, a certain point in time, you can't save a drowning man because you're gonna drown, too. And you got to just move on with your life. And I get it. I get when wives leave like that. I get when husbands leave like that. But a lot of people just marry people because they're hot lot. You know, they marry people because they're sexy. They like having Sex with them. You know, they think they're attractive, and then you're with some crazy person.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you're trying to make life work with a crazy person. And now you have kids.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And now you're trying to make life with kids with this crazy person that you really shouldn't have married in the first place. You didn't have anything in common with them other than you like their body.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And you liked how sexy they are. Oh, that's the trap. Like, you gotta. It's a bit depend. You have to, like, genuinely love someone. Like, love their personality, love being around them, love their kindness. And then you have to be someone that other people would love.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of people want this perfect person in their life, and they're a mess.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I've seen that go down.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot of reasons why marriages don't work out. And one of them is, like, over time, when two boats are traveling together, if one of them just. This, like, this is an Anthony Robbins thing about life, an analogy about life. But it. It actually works with marriages, too, because all you need is, like, a subtle turn in one direction, and over time, you're further and further apart where, like, we don't have the same philosophy anymore. We don't have the same belief system. We don't have the same ethics or morals. Or, you know, maybe your husband has got a job that you're like, you shouldn't be doing this. This is bad for society. Like, your job overall is awful. You're. Maybe you're denying people health care claims, you know, for insurance companies. Maybe that's your thing. And, like. And you're like, you're. We have to live with a psychic weight of like, yeah, we're eating rib eyes and we have a nice house, but, like, how did we get this money? Like. And maybe the wife is like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to be connected to you. Yeah, that's. That's understandable, too. It's like, not all marriages are supposed to work out.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I. I agree with you.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it makes sense.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Divorce right now?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What if that was 45?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Chris Rock had a great joke about that. He goes, that's just the cowards that stay. He's like, how many of them wish they were divorced? He was like, it's really good point. Really good point. Because although 50 get divorced, how many of those 50 that stay are just cowards?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Pay independence. Oh, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, we all have friends like, that we like, bro, get out. And they don't. And then. But then we also have people that have great marriages. And when you meet people that have great marriages, it's like, oh, that's possible. You know, that's possible.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, the sanctity of it. If it had more reverence going into. You're not getting ones that are just, she's hot. We love to shag.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a cultural milestone, too. It's like a thing. You're doing it because it's like, everybody does it. Every woman wants to be married. Every. You want to have a family. Every man wants to, you know, like, this is my wife. And so you think that a lot of people live life like they're in a goddamn romantic comedy. They think they're in a movie. You know, they think they're. And they don't. They don't. It's like that. There's something about media, something about songs and movies. It gives us this, like, bizarre framework for what a relationship or what life is supposed to be like or what your life is supposed to be like, and it's not real. And where your life doesn't measure up to the. This movie, just like your life is not going to measure up to your Instagram feed. You get kind of.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Of.

[Joe Rogan]

Kind of depressed. Like, this is it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why. Why are we in Galveston for our honeymoon when she's on a yacht?

[Joe Rogan]

She's in Ibiza.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know what I mean? Exactly. Comparison.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Thing comes.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's also why people put everything on the gram, too. Everybody. They put everything. They do. Look at me here, having so much fun. Look at me smiling, having a great time.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, you paint yourself in a corner. Yeah. Levi get on grand when he turned 15 and he. I don't know if he'll stay on it, but that was one of the things we were talking. I was like, dude, you know, he was surfing at the time. I was like, don't just put all your. All your best waves right on there, because you're gonna paint yourself on a corner when you go to the break and the guy's like, oh, we've seen it. I said, better put some wipeouts on there too, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Just so you can go and not have that pressure. Because you're gonna paint yourself in a corner if life looks too good.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

Absolutely.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Then you're gonna go out and you got. I gotta live up to this. What's that thing that happens in those relationships when you hold the other one? If I make my wife Superwoman, and she thinks I'm Superman. Neither one of us can live up to that. And so we're gonna come in under our expected bar, and there becomes the recipe for. You're not who I thought you were.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Because we had an unfair expectation going in.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that definitely happens, too. Also, familiarity breeds contempt. People just get tired of being the same space with the same person over and over again. Like, stop, leave me alone, get away. People get sick of people. But it's also like, who did you pick? Yeah, who'd you pick and why'd they pick you? Are you someone that you would pick if you were a woman?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, would you want you as a husband? Would you want you as a friend?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Would, you know?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And if not, maybe you should. Maybe you should become someone. Someone would like to be friends with. Maybe you should become someone. Someone would like to be a husband.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like to have as a husband sit.

[Matthew McConaughey]

In that passenger seat you're talking about.

[Joe Rogan]

And have a look. Have a look at yourself. Yeah. That's why a good psychedelic experience every now and then knocks the dust off and gives you a little reset and lets you look at yourself and go.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay, yeah, tell me, tell me. Explain what. Tell me what that. What that does. It unpacks some. Some. Some. Somewhat. Some. Some sort of neural cables that have gotten kind of solidified. They become doctrinaire.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a lot of that in that, for sure. And I think that's also a dissolving of the ego. That's a big part of it. One of the things that most psychedelic drugs have in common is they dissolve the ego. Like, completely dissolve the ego, at least for a brief amount of time. And during that brief amount of time, you have a much more objective understanding of. That's why there's so many people who take mushrooms and then completely quit smoking cigarettes or completely quit taking pills. They just go, oh, my God, like, what was I doing? Why was I doing that? Like, you just. You need to get outside of yourself. And I think that that was a natural part of human civilization for thousands and thousands of years. People did it in ritualistic settings. In ancient Ulysses, in. In Greece, the Eleusinian Mysteries was all about that. In Eleusis, when they would. They would all get together, they would take this track to get. There's a fantastic book on it called the Immortality Key that a guy has been a guest on my podcast a bunch of times. Brian Murarescu wrote. But it's all about. These are the people that figured out Democracy. This is like in ancient Greece. And they all did it from having these psychedelic trips. They would all go and have this trek to have this. This visionary experience and they'd come back with new insight and ideas and it dissolving in the ego. I mean, they literally came to the idea like, hey, maybe we should did let everybody have a say in how things run and vote. Like they invented democracy, right? Which is crazy. And they did it because. Probably because of psychedelic drugs. Like, they found these clay pots that these people used to keep their wine in and their wine was all like mixed up with psychedelics. It wasn't regular wine. Like we think of wine as being an alcoholic beverage. No, it was wine with ergot in it. So they were there. It was like an LSD like substance and a bunch of other stuff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Like. You ever seen the Dumbo, the animated?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, sure.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay. I just noticed it. Cause I noticed it. Just saw it for the. Seen it before, but recently saw it three years ago. So Dumbo, after the circus goes over, puts his snout down and drinks the runoff from the bar and the party. Okay. Stars start to sink. The next thing. Next edit is, he's in the top of a tree. He can fly. That was more than alcohol. It was the sacred galaxy. The cut is directly to him in the top of a tree.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious. God, I haven't seen Dumbo since my kids were like one.

[Matthew McConaughey]

If you see it. If you see it again, I need to watch Catch.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a. I haven't seen it for I'm. God, I don't even know if they.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And the crows are over there talking shit about him, about his. How he got up here and what are you doing up here, man? You should have seen yourself last night. Talk about. I don't remember, but I was there. Dumbo didn't remember none of it, man. But he's ended up in the top.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember when they were real little, we watched Pinocchio and how creepy it was. I was like, oh, my God, Pinocchio is creepy. When they. When the. The boys got kidnapped and it turned them into donkeys.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember that part? Yes, that was Pinocchio. Right? Here's the part, dude, he has a five minute trip in Dumbo. Oh, really? Let's see. I mean, it's a whole scene. The pink elephant. Oh, whoa. Oh.

[Matthew McConaughey]

After he drank that. Oh, no, he just drank the slop. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

He's 100 tripping.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And the last we saw was he just drank some. Now look at it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. Wow. Pyramids. And it ends here. Oh, wow. It ends. Him coming back to Earth.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Oh, wait, no, he's on. He's not back to Earth.

[Joe Rogan]

He's up in a tree. He's up in the tree. That's crazy. I would have never guessed. I would have never guessed. That's a part. But that's actually a part of one of the rides at Disneyland. Is that. Is there a Dumbo ride at Disneyland that looks psychedelic? Yes, that's right. No, it's Winnie the Pooh. There's a Winnie the Pooh ride at Disneyland that I used to take with my kids. And you go to the ride. It's like a real simple ride. It's not, like, scary at all. It's, like, good for, like, little kids. And you get to this one part, I'm like, what are they trying to say here? Like, this is crazy. Like, Tigger comes out and Tigger is, like, this psychedelic being, and everything is, like, now in black light. Yeah. So Tigger comes out and Tigger's like, a freak. Like, why is this guy bouncing around on his tail? Tail? And then it gets to a certain part, get a little forward here where it gets super weird. Like, right here. Like, what the hell has happened? It's all about honey. Like, things are like. This is like fractal. This is like DMT world. This is really weird. Like, what does this have to do with Winnie the Pooh? What the fuck happened? It's really weird. It's like, what are they trying to say here?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I didn't see anything about honey.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there's something about the honey. Honey. It's like something about. Well, you know, there's some stuff called mad honey. And this. Mad honey. We actually ate it on the podcast once. Some guy brought it. But it's a honey that these. I think it's in the Himalayas. That's where it is. Right where these guys have to climb up the side of a cliff to get this stuff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And these bees are all taking pollen from. Is it the lotus flower? What is the psychedelic plant? So these. These bees are taking pollen from this psychedelic plant and they're making a psychedelic honey.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay, okay.

[Joe Rogan]

So this is so bad. Honey is a honey that contains. Boy, say that word.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Gray adoxins.

[Joe Rogan]

The dark reddish honey is produced from the nectar and pollen of the genus Rhododendron. How do you say that? Rhododendron. It has moderately toxic and narcotic effects. Produced principally in Nepal and Turkey, whereas uses both a traditional medicine and a recreational drug. Okay, but see, we'll show how they get it, because these guys. Look at that. They have to climb on the side of a cliff to get this stuff, and people get it just to trip out.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine you tried that hard to get honey that you make like a rope ladder, and you cover yourself in a beekeeper's outfit, and they're. They're all like, these. These hives are all connected to the side of a cliff. It's really crazy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it was a very bizarre effect, too. The honey itself.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Did you have some?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So during the three hours after having some, do you get a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I was. It was in the middle of the podcast. I took it at the beginning of the podcast. I just took a big. I go, how much is a large dose? And he's like, take, like a half a teaspoon. Ah, fuck it. And I just took a whole big teaspoon of it. And I was like, whoops. Oh, this is interesting.

[Matthew McConaughey]

How soon did it get interesting?

[Joe Rogan]

20 minutes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, about 20 minutes in. I'm like, whoa, okay, this is a new one. I was like, this is crazy. This is honey. Like, putting this in your tea. Like, what's going on in Nepal? I don't think it's a normal use thing. I think it's an occasional use thing.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, maybe not a full tablespoon.

[Joe Rogan]

It didn't. Wasn't that bad. It wasn't like I was out of my head and didn't know what to do. I was completely functional. But it was, like, bizarre that this is in honey.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So these. These psychedelic trips, when you lose the ego and you unlock some of the.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, just like you got a vacation to reset your life, sometimes you need a vacation to reset your brain.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Do they help you have more energy? Because you're hanging on to old sure Ideas a little bit less, and you have more of an open beginner's mind, and the day unravels with that. With less certain concrete expectations or. Yeah, this is how that should go. Or.

[Joe Rogan]

Very insightful. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, definitely. That's a part of it. Like, the less you hang on to in your head, the, The. The. The more energy you have for other stuff.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you only I always tell people, like, especially young comics like that are, like, getting on social media and arguing with people and stuff. I'm like, look, man, think of your time in your day as a numerical unit. Like, you have a. Units of time, 100 units of energy. If you're putting 30 of those units on some online, you're robbing yourself.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Amen.

[Joe Rogan]

Of that time that you could be putting into things you love. Your friendship, your comedy act, your life. You, you don't need to do that. Like it's a trap. Like you get sucked into thinking you need to do that and all it does is it just robs you of your energy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The less you're attached to life, like old beefs and squat. That guy, all those kind of things, the less you're attached to that stuff, the freer you are, the more energy you have and it's good for you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's. Again, it's a selfish thing to do.

[Joe Rogan]

Selfish to be kind.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yep. Yeah, Amen on that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And I think if, if those things were legal and more people could experience them in a controlled setting with people who know how to administer them and know the right dose and, and, and know, you know, hey, what it. Are you on a medication? Well, if you're on a certain medication, definitely don't be taking this stuff because your medication's an MOA inhibitor and this is, you know, this could really you up. But, you know, it doesn't even have to be that, man, it could be a good yoga class.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

It could be holotropic breathing. You could just sit and breathe deeply in through your nose and out through your mouth. Mouth with intention. And you'll have a psychedelic experience. You'll get a relief from.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I just got one the other day from, from acupuncture. Did not expect it at all. And I mean, I came out going, oh my gosh. I just felt like I hibernated for a 14 hour nap and woke up clean as a whistle.

[Joe Rogan]

See, I've only done acupuncture one time and the dude was a total kook. He was so kooky that I just, I didn't, didn't get too comfortable now. It was too weird. The guy was so weird. Weird. He was really good at acupuncture, but he was just like this really weird guy in la and he'd have these conversations with you. He's asking a bunch of questions and I was like, okay, I gotta get this guy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's the, that's the, that's the masseuse that I. When you lay down, they go, yeah, so what's your horoscope? And I'm like going, oh, oh no. They go. And I go, any injuries? I'm like, yeah, this left shoulder, neck, left side of your body. That means you need to get in touch. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I actually got hit By a car. I don't. Don't go psychological on yet, man. Come on. Don't go horoscope out of the gate. If we want to add that on for some color commentary afterwards, I'm okay with it. But let's not come out of the gate saying this is the reason.

[Joe Rogan]

I actually just reached out to my booking guy to try to get a real astrologer on, like someone who really understands the ancient art of astrology, the real old stuff, because I'm not completely discounting it. I think newspaper horoscope is nonsense. I think there's a lot of people that are just like reading your tarot cards that are just ripping you off.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Off.

[Joe Rogan]

But I always wonder, like, at the heart, like, astrology is so specific, like, why did they write that down? Why did they have this understanding of how the stars are aligned at the time of your birth?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Pre mathematics.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. Where part of the Earth you're at. Yeah, I see. I don't even know if it's pre mathematics. I think it's pre. Our current understanding of when mathematics evolved and emerged. I don't think that's real. I think they had mathematics long before that. I think civilization was wiped out and had to restart over again. And there's a lot of evidence to that. There's a lot of evidence that, like, society has had some major cosmic event, most likely asteroid impact, comet impact. And there's a whole theory behind it, the Younger Dryas impact theory from 11,800 years ago. They think we got hit. And it's a. There's a comet storm that we go through every September. Was it November and June? Is that what it is? Something like that. Like June and November and occasionally we get hit and, you know, there's like 900,000 near Earth objects.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it doesn't take a really big one to fuck up everything. It doesn't take one that's going to kill everybody to fuck up anything.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It just takes one the size of a block, like one city block comes slamming into the ice caps. And then you just got chaos and everything goes away. And all like, modern conveniences and all organized societies thrown into chaos. And then people have to rebuild. I think that's happened a bunch of times in human history. And this is real physical evidence to this Younger Dryas impact theory, which also coincides with the ending of the Ice age. It's all around the same time. And they think it was like a series of events. They think we were hit more than once. They think they were hit around 11,800 years ago, but then again somewhere around 10,000 years ago. So it's probably when we see society emerging in like Mesopotamia and Sumerian, which is like around 5,000 plus 6,000 years ago. I think that's just the newest version of it. I think they probably had mathematics long before that. They, they probably were doing whoever built the pyramids. Like you can't tell me they didn't have some sort of complex geometry in mathematics. There's, there's no way they didn't. The, the things are pointed to true north, south, east and west. Like that's 5,000 years ago.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Carl Sagan, I got to sit with him for a few hours before we made this film called Contact that I was in with Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Loved it. You do one of my all time favorite movies. I love that movie. Oh, and I love Carl Sagan. Yeah, he wrote the book. Yeah, yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Got to talk to him, listen to him actually for a few hours. Anyway, I got to know his wife and his wife's really cool, but her, her, hello, her greeting being is always, hey, what's your coordinate?

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What's your coordinate?

[Joe Rogan]

What's your coordinate? Boy? She's out there.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But I mean that was similar of the north southeast, which, where are we coordinated? Where's the Earth coordinated?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

In the galaxy, in the universe, in the hands of time. What has happened? What's our coordinate? It's a, it is coming out there, but it's a, it's a, it's a pretty cool objective. The way to go. Let me think about that. Reminds me of. Yeah, like. You ever meet Bush 41?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hi, President Bush. How you doing today? While he's holding your hand, about an 8.2 today, Matthew, 8.2 to the 10th. He would give you an answer out of 10 to the 10th of how he was doing. I always thought that was pretty interesting because everybody goes, oh, I'm good man. Great, great, great. How are you?

[Joe Rogan]

That's some CIA shit, son.

[Matthew McConaughey]

He was adding it up to the 10th. What's your coordinate about an 8.2.

[Joe Rogan]

He had numbers in his head.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, Herbert Walker was the guy that Hal put off and a bunch of these scientists, he brought them together and said, we have recovered a crashed ufo, more than one occasion and we have have a back engineering program and we're considering disclosure to the American people. I want you to list the positives, the positive impact of society and the negatives. And they did it with quite a few different scientists and they all had more negatives than positive.

[Matthew McConaughey]

2. If they came out with this information to share this information. What would be the effect on society?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

More negatives than positives.

[Joe Rogan]

More negatives than positive, because. Disruption of religion, government, economy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, I mean, it does. I just don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Depends on your religion, you know, and depends on where these things are from and what. What is happening. What do we know?

[Matthew McConaughey]

In the Bible, Ezekiel has golden chariots from the sky.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. Yeah. And a wheel within a wheel. Yeah. The Ezekiel stuff sounds like a UFO encounter. And it's not the only version of that. In ancient texts. And the. In the ancient Hindu texts, they have vimanas, these things that are flying through the sky. Like, what is. What are those things? You know, in the Rig Veda, in the. Even in the Bhagavad Gita, there's. There's all these depictions of these things that sound like you're talking about a spaceship or at the very least, some kind of technology. Like, what this thing about the nephilim. Like that the. The gods mated with women and created man who are monstrous. Boy, doesn't that sound like aliens came down and genetically manipulated primates and created human beings? Things that. That's a version of it that you could imply from the text. It's all really weird stuff, man. Like, really weird. If you. If you. If you found out that that was all true, it would probably change everything about society. And this is what Herbert Walker and those guys decided after. So Hal put off, was explaining it to me on the podcast, like how they put a numerical value to each thing. I'm like. Like, we were that close, right? Like, imagine if that happened. This is 1990, right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but these kind of really weird things, as you put them, they excite you more than they give you fear. That. Be fair.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I mean, you seem excited. You get excited about different possibilities.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I mean, you know, I have people go, oh, man, Rogan loves these conspiracy theories. I don't see him liking the conspiracy theories. I see him always being interested in an alternate way something went down and being interested and excited about that, but not going, no, no, no, no, no, no. Never disengaging from it and going, no way. No, no. Because I believe how it was and what I read, and that's how it is. That. That you're not. That's not what. Where you're moving from.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Know.

[Joe Rogan]

It's never a denial of information and facts, and it's also a recognition that oftentimes a large swath of society just goes with a narrative without Having any real understanding of what the. The actual facts behind it are. And then there's that term, this pejorative term, conspiracy theory. The problem with that, calling someone a conspiracy theorist is conspiracies are real. Like, there's a lot of evidence. And if you want to sit down, I could fucking show you a ton of them. And, and so anybody who says, like, oh, you're a conspiracy theorist, I'm like, okay, let's talk about conspiracies. Like, do you think that any of them exist? Do you think that people conspire? Is it like, it's a natural part of human behavior that's been documented throughout history, even in governments? I mean, sure, literally, the thing that got us into the Vietnam war was a conspiracy. It was fake. The Gulf of Tonkin. It was a false flag operation that never took place at all. They lied to the American people. That's a conspiracy. Like, that's just one conspiracy that turns out to be true. There's a lot of them. The problem is people don't want to look like a conspiracy theorist. They've done such a good job of making it a. A goofy term that you don't ever want attached to you, cause damage to your reputation. If you're in a job where people have to take you seriously. Fortunately, I'm not. But if you're in a job where people have to take you seriously, you don't want to say anything weird like, hey, I think aliens are real. Like, people think you're a kook and then they discount your opinion on everything. Yeah, but if you just know the actual facts, like people that don't think there's anything that aliens are real, it's. There's no way we're alone. There's. We've never been contacted.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why not?

[Joe Rogan]

Gary Nolan, the guy who was on here yesterday that was talking about cancer research, he was also telling us about a piece of wreckage they found from a craft for. Is it 1950 that they found it? The first one, the silica one. So they have direct chain of possession of this evidence from. I believe it was 1950, and it was almost pure silica. And the magnesium ratios were so off that he said that this magnesium had to have been. It had to have been sourced from a place that experienced a neutron bomb every two minutes for 900 years. That's how off the isotopes were to magnesium that we find here on Earth. He's like, I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to ever do that, but I'm saying this is from 1950. Like, this is a real piece of what they're saying is a wreckage of a craft and it has a material composition that is impossible for a normal person to create in 1950. So what the fuck is this? And you say that to people and they're like, oh, so Gary Nolan, who's a professor at Stanford, he's professor in the, in, in the. What is his forensics? Is that what his. He does cancer research, but what is his actual tit? Stanford School of Medicine professor anyway, Rock solid credentials published. And people brought him this material and they said, would you analyze this? Because, you know, all these different scientists and. Endowed chair, Department of Pathology, Stanford School of Medicine. So when a guy like that is saying, no, this is a composition of this piece of wreckage that you can't make here.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

They, they found a type of alloy that doesn't exist on Earth and it has, on an atomic level, layers upon layers of whatever this alloy is. He's like, this cost billions of dollars to create. And they found it in 1970. Like, in 1970, no one had this. This is, it's not possible to make. Like, maybe you can make it today, but we don't have the equipment to make it today. You could conceive how someone with enough resources could have that money today to do something like that, but it would be an enormous undertaking.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And this is a piece of craft that someone found from 1976. So when a guy like that is telling you, like, I'm not saying what it is, I'm not saying where it's from, but I'm saying this is fucking crazy.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It doesn't add up to what you could practically do.

[Joe Rogan]

So when someone says conspiracies, like, yeah, yeah, I believe in conspiracies because they're reacting.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And because I don't have to worry about being taken seriously. And most people do. Most people don't want to be a fool, you know, to be a silly person. You know, you don't want to be mocked when people aren't around you. Like, you know, Bob believes that JFK assassination. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You say because you don't have to be taken seriously.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, she said, exactly.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Because. Wait, because you're saying your, your theories on things are solid or because you in your position are going, hey, I don't have to be taken.

[Joe Rogan]

My job does not rely on me being taken seriously.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Nothing.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What do you say to them? It's like, because you get, you get attacked for like, hey, man, you had so and so on here and, and, and and, and, and, and, and, and you placated them and you know, and we do take you seriously because so many people listen. I'm. Cause I always, I always hear and I'm. And I always find that I think there's a hole in those attacks on you. You have a massive audience of listening. Does that mean inherently. Not necessarily. Is what I hear you saying that, oh, everything I say should be taken seriously because that information is going wide. No people's argument is going, joe, you have a massive audience, so that's your responsibility to make sure, blah, blah, blah, they go down that rabbit hole.

[Joe Rogan]

My responsibility is only just to be me. I don't have a responsibility to do anything else. I definitely have a responsibility to not lie to people. And I definitely have a responsibility to not willingly allow someone else to lie without at least questioning them right. If I know that they're lying. But other than that, my responsibility is just to keep doing what I've done. And that's why I have a big audience. It's not because. It's not because of any other reason. So I'm not going to do anything any differently.

[Matthew McConaughey]

No, I see that. I applaud it.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think you have to. I don't think it's good. I don't think it's smart. I don't think you should be paying too much attention to what other people's opinions of what you should or shouldn't be doing are. As long as you have a good internal compass, as long as you have a good true north. And, you know, and my true north is how do I feel about it? Like, what do. What. Do I feel like I'm a good person for doing this? Do I feel like that was a beneficial thing for them and for me? I'm happy. They're happy. We're all good. And that's what I want. I just want. I want a hug and a handshake. Thank you. That was awesome. Good times. And I want to hear from them. Like, this has been amazing for them.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Me.

[Joe Rogan]

That's. That makes me excited. That's all. That's all I like.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's. That's cool. You gotta. You gotta. You make it sound so simple. But as you probably know, for a lot of people in your position, a, it ain't that simple.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. But it is if you follow the right path.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not that hard. Like people say it's hard. I'm like, you know, you work so hard. Like, look at us right now. This is me working it's not that hard.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

This ain't. I've had jobs. This is. I've done construction of the, like, horrible jobs that suck. This is not a job. This is just a fun pursuit. So you have a responsibility to the people that listen. And I think the people that listen expect me to be me, and that's all you can do.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

And as soon as you start changing, they know before you know.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, they'll. They'll like, oh, you change.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And people will always accuse you of changing, even if you haven't. But I. I think I've evolved. I've most certainly evolved. I've tempered the way I view life. I'm more. I'm definitely kinder and more patient, but I'm the same person. Same person. Like, same goals. Just curious. I'm interested. Like, talk to people.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And I want everybody to do well. I really, genuinely do well.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's a. That's not. That's not an overly common trait.

[Joe Rogan]

It should.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We. I think it should be.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's not hard. And I think the way you described it is great. It actually is selfish, and I say that all the time. It really is selfish. A kind person.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm on a crusade to change the understanding of that word because I think we sell ourselves short and with. There is a way where what is best for us is actually best for the most amount of people and vice versa.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I agree.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's. At the end of the day, it is all got to be very personal and then to have some dignity in it. It's the difference between choice and a mandate. No, you got a choice, but make the fucking right choice. Measure the choice. You got. You're. You got power when you make the choice and you deal with the consequences. I love to go, oh, bogey there, McConaughey. And I can look in the mirror and go, that's on you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Then I can make a good decision. Something works out. I can look in the mirror and go, good, man. We hit that one on the screws.

[Joe Rogan]

I like. I honestly like up sometimes because then it makes me really reset and go, oh, boy. Get it back together.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What's the last big up you had? Were you like, oh, I gotta.

[Joe Rogan]

You have a weird podcast. You're like, that one sucked. Like, maybe I was worked out too hard before I got here. That's not good like that. That's a bad one that I do.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Sometimes, like, come in charging and getting over, getting ahead.

[Joe Rogan]

No, Like, I'm worn out and then my brain's not firing on. Also, like if I do leg. Like I do a leg day.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I do a lot of squats. Pull the sleep. I come in and my brain is just like wiped out, you know, that's not good. I've done that. You know, I've. You know, but it's just when you're not on point. Okay, what did I do wrong? Well, I didn't get enough sleep. You know, maybe I didn't take my nootropics, whatever it was. Like, maybe I didn't. Didn't do enough research on the subject. Whatever it is. Like, let's get it back together.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Gotcha.

[Joe Rogan]

Pull that right back around.

[Matthew McConaughey]

See, but that's self regulation.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You're self regulating because. Ah, I could have done better. I missed my mark. Oh, I'm gonna. Don't like it when I do that. I'm a little embarrassed when I do that. Damn it.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel shitty. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I didn't get. I didn't. I didn't leave that situation better than I found it. I didn't come forward. I didn't prepare enough or whatever that might be, man. More that across the board.

[Joe Rogan]

It's good for everybody.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Amen.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. You got to be your own general. You got to be your own like. Like, wake up, soldier. You know, I always talk about the cold plunge because it is the. It is the one time people say, oh, how do you do it every day? Listen to me very carefully. I almost don't. Every day. Every day I get that close to bitching out. Every single day I amazed how weak I am. I'm amazed. Every time I go to lift that lid off that thing, I'm like, oh, my God. I don't. I'm not doing this. I am not doing this. I'm not doing. And then when I get in, I'm like, maybe I'll only do a minute today. Maybe I'll get out right now. Don't you want to get out right now? I'm like, shut the up. I get to let the general talk. And the general's like, shut the up, soldier. You will stay in that water. I'm like that dude from Full Metal Jack. Outstanding.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. Well, self regulation, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But every day I almost don't. David Goggins told me that too. Who's like the most mentally strong human being I've ever met. Maybe the most mentally strong human being that's ever walked to face the planet. And he said, he goes, even though I run every day, sometimes I look at my sneakers, I Stare at those motherfuckers for half an hour before I put them on. Just thinking of him. I mean. I mean, he's out there running, like, marathons literally every day. And he was just like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do. I don't want to do this.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

So he does it. That's the thing. It's like, people want to think that people that are mentally strong don't struggle. No, you just. You do struggle. You always struggle. But you win every time.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

You make sure that you win every time, and you can win every time, but you got to develop that ability to make yourself do the things you don't necessarily want to do, but, you know, you should. Should.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's a little bit of that. I don't know if you ever saw that djokovic interview on 60 Minutes.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And 60 Minutes interview. I forget his name was going like, look. So, you know, your mental capacity is why you're so good. And my hunch that Novak, it's because you have less negative thought. And Djokovic interrupts him. Now, you might want to pull this one up. This is good. His answer is great. He goes, no, no, no. I have as many or more negative thoughts. I just get past them quicker than others.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So he's not denying the negative thoughts. He's Let him. Let him come. And then, bam. Out of the way. I got it. On to the next.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he has control. Yeah, yeah, he has control of those thoughts. They come in and he swats them down. Yeah, you have to have some negative thoughts if you're going to be an elite athlete, because you have to be your own worst critic. You can't be satisfied with anything if you want to reach the very tip of the top hop. Every movement must be more precise and more explosive and better every time you do it. And you have to do all the training and you leave no stone unturned. And if you don't do that, you're never going to reach the level that he's at in anything.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Let me ask you about this. I got a poem on it, but, I mean, just trying to remember what it was about. It's success in, say, mma, for instance. It. What's a better resume for a great performance or victory? Suffering to succeed or revenge?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, suffering to succeed.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why?

[Joe Rogan]

The emotions that come with revenge are crippling. And sometimes they can keep you up at night and they'll fuck with your sleep. And then the consequences of you losing are far Greater because you genuinely hate this person. There's a. You know, some people thrive under those conditions, oddly. But I would think most of the time, most of the time, trying to just achieve the highest version of yourself is the most aspirational. And I think the best of the best do that, right? The very best, the George St. Pierre's of the world, they do that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That they're playing against themselves.

[Joe Rogan]

They're playing against themselves. Yeah. They're trying to be the very best version of themselves that they can be. And if they do that, right, and leave no stone unturned, they can achieve greatness. But it's not going to be easy. It's. It's going to be. They go through hell. I mean, to become an elite fighter is one of the most physically difficult things and then psychologically difficult things that a human being can ever undertake outside of war and maybe law enforcement, you know, other than that, that you're. You're dealing with physical struggle the likes of most people will never experience in their life. You're. You're literally hurling bones in the direction of a. A trained assassin. And the two of you are going to do it publicly in your underwear in front of the whole world, barefoot, with these little tiny pads on your knuckles and a cup over your dick. And you just gotta go out there and. And kick each other and strangle each other. It's crazy. It's a crazy. And so this is balance of the mind and the body and the intention and how you allocate your resources and time and how you manage stress and how you deal with the pressures of trying to succeed and the doubts and.

[Matthew McConaughey]

The fears in the suffering to succeed.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Is it fair to say? I think it is that like the people that you know, like the seeing beyond the immediate goal. Meaning, right, we choke at the goal line when we look up and get objective and go, oh, shit, fourth and one. This could be the game winner. All I got to get is 1 yard, right? Whereas no, I. I run, I will run through. I'll use my ability, I will cross that. Bo Jackson, when he scored, he'd go through the end zone, down the tunnel. Tunnel. The best snipers don't aim at the target. They aim on the other side of it. Getting through. Covid. Part of what I know helped me was going, oh, it's gonna be like this for 10 years. Gang family. Buckle up. Yeah, been nice. 10 years. It was much shorter. Oh, shit. We were preparing for a much longer journey. Going to work out. This is gonna be hell. Get ready for it. Dude. And then all of a sudden you're like, all right, that's it, wait, I'm doing done. Projecting past the goal cellularly I think wakes up something in us on survival level that we don't choke, we don't get fatigued as quickly. We don't want to quit sooner because we have in our mind, no, the end is not right around the corner.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And it's a bit of a mental trick, but I think that it has something to do with what championship do they see beyond. They're playing Arch Manning right now. There's never been more hype on a quarter college quarterback ever. I believe that guy is wired and that family bloodlines even wired that they're beyond this height. This height. This is mortal, right? This is mortal shit, guys. Great.

[Joe Rogan]

It's about the process. It's about winning games.

[Matthew McConaughey]

If UT goes and wins the championship. Their preseason ranked number one. Never been ranked number one before. I believe that this team is like, oh well, thank you for the compliment, but we're on our own mission that being preseason ranked number one or being on the COVID of frickin Sports Illustrated is not a curse nor validation. It's just noise out there. And if we do it and you go, we told you you'd be number one, we'll look at you and go, oh well thank you, but that's it. I'm not. They don't need a pep rally to go. The rest of the world thinks you can win this tank too, right? Oh, good. Good for them. We're not playing for them. We're doing our thing. I have a mission here. I believe in a path that I'm on and I'm going beyond this hype or I'm going beyond this game. I'm playing for a whole. I'm prepared mentally and spiritually for an entire season of hell. I'm prepared to fight this assassin on the other side of me that is wants to defend and do to me what I want to do to them. Making the, the resistance or the adversary seem bigger and longer and going to be more tumultuous seems to be a good way to succeed. Going beyond. And all of a sudden you look up. I get this from when I've done my best acting. I didn't know it was the last day. When they yield cut at the end of the last scene of the last day of shooting. I was walking off going, all right, see you tomorrow. And they're like, no, no, no, there is no tomorrow.

[Joe Rogan]

You were just in the zone.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's It. Yeah, that's it. We rapped. Oh, shit. Oh, hey, Joe. How you doing?

[Joe Rogan]

For the first time, because you were just locked in.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Boom.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Best rounds of golf. I walked off the 18th green and was heading to the next tee box to look up and realize, no, that's it. You played eight. Oh, shit.

[Joe Rogan]

What'd I shoot?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Oh, 74. Huh. I didn't look at my scorecard on 16 and go, if I can just keep it in the fairway this last three holes, maybe get him with the par. Just don't bother. I didn't anticipate, so I didn't get my room. I behaved and went through the finish line.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That something in there is in suffering to succeed rather than fighting for revenge. Seeing on the other side of the target.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You follow what I'm 100%. Yeah. It's also like concentrating on what you're trying to do versus the impact of what it is. Like, if I miss this, oh, my God, I'm fucked.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Instead of that, you're just thinking about, I'm going to make this. This is how I make this. This is how I do this.

[Matthew McConaughey]

This is how I do this, how I behave. It's also, in today's world, with all the stimulus we're talking about and social media, et cetera, we're all sort of living in the third person or being fed opportunities to live in the third person all the time. It's like we have a Jumbotron, and to use a football analogy, you kick me the ball, I'm running the kickoff back and I'm going down the sideline and I see the goal line and I think I'm going to score. And then I have a look at the jumbotron to see how I'm doing. That's when I'm getting tackled from behind.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

If we step outside to have a look at how we do doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That passenger you open up, talking about when you're hitting it comedically is not hopping out right over here to have a look.

[Joe Rogan]

And if you do, you'll get lost.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You get lost, you get conscious of what you're behaving, what you know, how to do, what you're fashioned to do, and you're out of the moment.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And you become objective.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Someone do something where we know they're in the zone. Right. Like where someone runs in for a lake up and it's like the most beautiful movements, avoiding the defenders up in the air, drops the ball and we're like, wow, when we see someone just hit the zone, we see it in the fight, when we see someone just flow. We see someone flowing like, wow, he's feeling it, you know, whoa, she's locked in. We love that because we know that it's somewhere in ourselves. And maybe at one point in your life you experienced it, you might have been playing mini golf or something. Like one point in your life you're like, I think I felt a little bit of that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right. How much do you think preparation has to do with the freedom to adapt and flow once you're in the game?

[Joe Rogan]

A lot.

[Matthew McConaughey]

A lot, A lot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, almost everything. You, if you're not prepared, your ability to adjust is very limited. Yeah, you have to be fully prepared and then let it flow, but you have to like really, really have all your bases covered to just like, just so they don't have anxiety. If I could have done more. Yeah, that is a big issue with fighters. We see fighters towards the end of their career. There's a thing that happens with fighters, realize they're probably never going to be champion and they're just doing it for a paycheck. And you know, you see sometimes they'll show up and they look a little soft and you're like, you see a little fear in their eyes because they know they really are not, not focused, they're really not dialed in. But this is what they're doing for a paycheck now. And it's not good.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Cuz the other guy on the other side of the octagon is the opposite. That guy's dialed in. Maybe he's only like 25 and he's like coming into his prime and you're a stepping stone for him.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And it's like, and the, and, and the problem, fear of that is what, getting actually really injured.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Matthew McConaughey]

More so than if you were 100 dialed yourself.

[Joe Rogan]

You'll definitely take shots you wouldn't take and then you're, you don't have the endurance to keep up a pace.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Because like to, to get to the shape that you have to, have to be in to be able to compete in a five round MMA fight, it's almost impossible to maintain. Like, Chael Sonnen's talked about this extensively. It's like you can't keep it up. It's not like a level of conditioning that you can keep up all year round around. You have to peek to it where you're like, your body's barely hanging on and then you coast the last week to allow yourself to like recover and you're just kind of going through movements the last few days and then on Saturday, under the bright lights, you are at 100 capacity. I mean, they've been monitoring your heart rate and checking your resting heart rate and checking your blood, your heart rate variability and what your nutrient levels at. You're finely tuned.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Get in there and go that Saturday night.

[Joe Rogan]

And if you're not, if you didn't cover any of those bases, you're gonna know, right the back, your head, you're gonna know, like, I'm gonna give it my best, but boy, I don't have a big gas tank and I could.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Have trained harder and I'm, I get so damn excited about this. This seems like this, the blind spot that still is there to be taken advantage of for preparing for peak performance. Darrell Royal, coach of University of Texas that won a couple national championships here at Texas, had always said, you got 12 games in the year, you can expect for your team to be at peak performance level two Saturdays out of 12. You want to make sure that those two Saturdays are against the toughest teams. You want to make sure that the other ones where they're like, ah, okay, they did well, but they didn't play to their pieces performance are against the good teams. And you want to do your best to make sure that the days that they're off, you're playing the shitty teams that you can beat even when you're not mentally there. That seems like so much more opportunity for that number to rise today, to have a much higher number that you can be ready for peak performance. Who are the best preparers in, I don't know, MMA in your mind, they.

[Joe Rogan]

Peak when you get to a championship level, when you get to like Alexandre Pantoja or when you get to, you know, Islam Makachev, when you get to like that level, they're all, you're at a championship level. They're all, they all have impeccable preparation.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They're all, yes, it's impeccable.

[Joe Rogan]

Impeccable.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And so the team, it's measured, it's time.

[Joe Rogan]

This is, yeah, they're all dialed in with diet, they're dialed in with their weight, they're dialed in with strength and conditioning, they're dialed in with their sparring. It's impeccable that you can, you can't compete at a world class level today and not have that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not possible.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So physically, yeah, mentally, yeah. Are these two different coaches? Are these one.

[Joe Rogan]

Some people don't have mental coaches at all. Some elite fighters have no Mental coaches. But some of them do. Some of them, like we had this guy, Brandon Epstein the other day that he works with quite a few UFC fighters, and he's got a very specific protocol that he mentally prepares them for, and he coaches them through things and, and sets up like a way to visualize and see yourself performing and see yourself doing things and how you, how you view your performance. Like, and to get you into a mindset where once you get into that octagon, you're locked into this pathway instead of like straying and letting anxiety and fear overcome you, which can happen to fighters. Yeah, but then there's other guys that don't have any coaches for that at all. They just have the mindset already.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

And they're comfortable with what they have and they, and they just stay disciplined and just go in there. Yeah, it's. It's very personal because everybody's brain is different and everybody's. They all have like, different ways of expressing themselves. Different ways.

[Matthew McConaughey]

How much is technology and diet and stuff helped?

[Joe Rogan]

A lot. Yeah, a lot, a lot. Technology, just understanding nutritional balances, understanding like when you do a nutrient analysis of your blood work, like, oh, you're deficient in niacin, is. This is your. Probably you're wearing down. You don't have enough B12 in your system. Making sure you get the correct amount of protein. Like, you can't, you can't miss any of those things. If you want to achieve peak performance, you have to have everything, your hydration, your electrolytes, everything has to be dialed in your sleep, which is one of the biggest ones. Like, this is like a lot of these young guys, the problem is they still go out and party, they're still hanging out with girls till 2 o' clock in the morning and then they're at training at 8:00am a.m. like, you can't do that and be a professional and expect to be world class or expect to beat the guys who are just as good as you, but get that preparation. They're going to have an advantage.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, yeah. You know the argument of athletes, you know, well, who was better then or now, what would they have done then or what? This. My. I think that we've. Athletes have evolved and the athletes we have now are just better than athletes ever were.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I think so too.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That they're bigger, they're more powerful, they're more focused, they're more specific, that they're just better, that if they played in that time, they would be that much better then even than they are now.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Seems to be. I think we're just evolving that way.

[Joe Rogan]

They also have the benefit of watching people do it before them and do it really well. So they aspire to that level and then to surpass that level. Whereas those people were pioneers.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And Larry Bird didn't have a lot of people to watch play basketball before Larry Bird. You know, there was a few, but, you know, black and white footage. It's not like you didn't see it every day. You didn't have it on the Internet. Now, kids, they could just watch every Jordan highlight reel, every time LeBron James has scored, every Steph Curry three pointer. They could watch it anytime they want. And then that is a level that they're aspiring to.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Think of all the football games that kids can watch now and analyze. Think of all the fights that people coming up now that want to be a martial artist, they can watch. And so they aspire to. To this level that has already been achieved by the greatest of all time. And then they want to surpass that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is what human beings have always done athletically, all throughout time. We've always. It's not like guys who broke records in the 1930s. We don't break those today. Like, those are not the same records. Like, those don't hold up. We 100% get better from 90 years ago to today. There is no comparison. The athletes are far better. And they're going to continue 90 years from now, probably. If there's humans, they'll probably be far better.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know, experiments that have happened and in the NFL, you know, and I think. I think this is correct. But I was always Washington. It was then the Redskins fan, and I think it was 1986 or 1988. They had the heaviest offensive line, and they averaged 286 somewhere around there. Those nice numbers.

[Joe Rogan]

Big fellas.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Close, right? But compared to today, that would be the lightest.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Nuts.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And then Dallas with Nate Newton, and those guys had a point where they were going, oh, we're going to get guys up to 330. Oh, let's get them to 340. And they peaked when some of them got to 360. The bone marrow. They were big, but they lost agility and speed. And then, oh, we hit the ceiling. We went past it. We got to come back.

[Joe Rogan]

Interesting.

[Matthew McConaughey]

These are the Hogs.

[Joe Rogan]

There's the Hogs. Guy in the middle with a mustache.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That's Russ Grimm.

[Joe Rogan]

Boy, that was big fellas.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Joe Jacoby over here.

[Joe Rogan]

66 big fellas. The Hogs. What a great name. Yeah, that's hilarious.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, they hit the top of, like, Dallas. They went too far.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

The thing was, bigger is better, so let's get bigger. And then all of a sudden, agility went. They went, oh, it's not 360. It's come way back, come back down.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, believe it or not, the UFC heavyweight division has a weight class. You can't be over £265.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You can't?

[Joe Rogan]

No. They have to wait to. To fight for the UFC heavyweight title, you must weigh 265 pounds or below.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So you're 270. You gotta lose weight you don't have.

[Joe Rogan]

It's happened before where guys had to lose weight to fight heavyweight. Tim Sylvia, when he was the UFC heavyweight champion, had a cut weight weight to hit the 265 pound weight class. He was so big that like 265 was a struggle for him to get down to.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Isn't that never gonna have to?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I would assume it should, but the problem is there's actually a heavyweight class above that that's super heavyweight, but we've never had that in the ufc. There's never been a single super heavyweight fight in the UFC. Everything has always been inside the 265 pound weight class, which I think is real weird because, like, where'd that number come from? I don't know. The numbers are real weird anyway because there's giant gaps in them. It's like one of the major problems with MMA is that there's a lack of weight classes. So in boxing, there's weight classes all you got 126, 130, 135. It goes 135 to 140, 140, 147, 147, 54 with the USC can see, it's like 35, 45, 55. Then it goes 70, 85. So you got a 15 pound weight difference, and then it goes 205. So you got 20, 20, and then you got 265. So that's 60 pounds for. For heavyweight. It's crazy. The. The gaps are just too big.

[Matthew McConaughey]

All right?

[Joe Rogan]

They're gigantic. So that's a major problem with MMA in that there's less weight classes than there should be. And then you have a cap on heavyweight, which is bananas. Like, you should have no cap. Heavyweight should be. How big is this guy? Guy, like, let him fight because you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Think you can handle and come in. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, what about the mountain? That guy from Game of Thrones? If that guy had a fight in the ufc, he wouldn't be able to make weight. He's too big. He's. That guy's almost £400, you know.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, I never knew that. I thought heavyweights like 265 and up, 250 and up. That should be whatever you want to come in with.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what it should be. Yeah, but there really should be a weight class around 225. There's something like that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What class would that be? You just name a new class.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, boxing has something like that. What is the boxing weight class? That's like below heavyweight. There's cruiserweight, but then there's a new one. There's a recent one over the past few years that they've developed. But that's one thing that boxing does a much better job with, I think, providing fighters the correct weight class where they can compete in. What is it called? That's it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think there's another one that they're calling. They're calling it. God, I can't remember the name of it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Super Cruiserweight Super Cruise.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's it. I think they called it something different, though. They had a name for it. Eh, whatever. Maybe you'll find it, maybe not. But point is, 265 is the limit. So, like Francis Ngannou, when he was the heavyweight champion, he used to have a car weight it. He had to lose weight to get down to 265.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And then how much is he putting on that?

[Joe Rogan]

Last week, he's probably putting another 10 on. At least he's not losing a ton. But he's got to watch his calorie output. He's a massive human.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hey, I met him in Saudi Arabia.

[Joe Rogan]

So big. He's so big, he. That's a real tragedy that him in the ufc. Couldn't figure it out.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Out.

[Joe Rogan]

That bothers me a lot because that guy was. He was the scariest heavyweight champion of all time, for sure. He put guys in orbit. He would hit them and you just go, oh, it would hurt. You like watching it. You're like, oh, no. All men are not created equal. That's another problem with fighting. No matter how much preparation you have, no matter how intelligent you have, you are, some people are faster and hit harder than you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

And you ain't going to fix that, right? In the gym. You'll get a little better, but you're never going to bridge that gap.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. I had a dream of being an NBA basketball player.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you? Was that your dream for a while? How old were you?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I was young and I was I was like, I'm going to dunk. And no matter how much this guy sitting here would have worked out and hustled, I was never going to be able to dunk, bro. Didn't have the innate ability, didn't have the DNA, didn't have the makeup.

[Joe Rogan]

I bet you could. I bet you you could over time. I bet someone could teach you how to dunk. I bet if someone got you on like a serious training program when you were younger right now, it would be rough.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Rough track.

[Joe Rogan]

It'd be rough on the tendons.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of stress when you get to the ra. Just like, maybe you shouldn't be dunking. How about take dunking off the menu?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, well, that was whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

But when you're young, I think you could teach a guy. But it would, you know, it's not as easy as that. Like for some people, they could just die. Junk. Yeah, yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, that thing about not everyone being created equal. Yeah. You gotta have innate ability.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And the hustle, the work ethic, if you got both. And there's a lot of, look, there's a lot of five star players who don't have the hustle and then there's.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of some of the most talented ones. Right. Because it comes too easy to them.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And some of the ones that aren't as talented but just will not stop, they will not stop pushing because they had to work harder for everything they ever did. They have that extra gear and that allows them to be champions.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I hear more and more CEOs saying, Give me Johnny and Jane Hustle from Western Kentucky before Belinda and Joseph from Harvard.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Give me this one that's ready to come. Hustle, that's ready to get scrappy, adapt, work, Press the edges on the front and the back end. Yeah, give me that.

[Joe Rogan]

And someone who's all in. Yeah, you want someone who's all in. You don't want someone who's like, looking at the clock, wants to leave. Someone who's just like, doesn't feel like they're being appreciated enough. You want someone who's like fully all in on their work.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Do you think there's been, there's theories about with AI coming that now more than ever that's what you need is the, the one that's knows a little, that has more of a liberal arts education. I know, I know, I know. I know a little about a lot of things. And I can hit many different avenues rather than be an expertise in one certain thing. I Mean, it's like just, what, six years ago you tour the campuses that were like, computer programming. That's what you want your child to be. That's what we need, right? No, you don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Now it's over. Telling you, don't. Don't get into programming.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So what specifics are the jobs or the creations, the vocations that are going to be out there for our youth here coming up, that are going to be like, that's how you're going to make it. I question the college education now. I question the worth of it. How much is it still a knowledge factory that has not adapted to changing times and needs in the workforce? And how much of it needs to be updated for getting young men and women prepared to go into the workforce?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's really unknown territory, and I think AI is going to take jobs away that we never thought we were going to lose. I think lawyers are off, Right. They're in trouble. Coders are gone.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Accountants are gone.

[Joe Rogan]

Accountants are gone. Yeah. It's going to be really fucking weird. It's going to be really weird for Hollywood. I mean, you've seen some of the. These. These films. If you've seen the old Star wars that they're doing, they're remaking Star wars with AI with old Luke Skywalker, like when he was young. Like when Luke Skywalker's. They're doing completely new scenes that look exactly like HD versions of Star Trek, Star wars in 1975. It's what it looks like.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's in HD today with AI using Mark Hamill's voice so it sounds exactly like him as young Luke Skywalker. It's bananas, man. It's bananas. There's a lot of weirdness with music. There's a lot of weirdness with literature. You're gonna have all sorts of AI So no one knows what's going to survive this. I think, I assume that a bunch of people at the end of the day are gonna get really sick of artificially created things and want something that they know was made by a person.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Person.

[Joe Rogan]

Whether it's a book that is made by a person or a song. Like an Oliver.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I think we're gonna want.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

A tangible.

[Joe Rogan]

We're gonna want books.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Physical.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Books are going to be like. Like, you know, some people just love vinyl. Yeah. Love them. They just love the pressing the needle down and hearing the crackle. And that's. That's what. There's going to be a lot of that still. People are going to want to buy books from people that actually wrote the book book. They're going to want to go to see a guy perform music in an actual club where you see the guy on stage. No, it's live. There is always going to be a desire for handmade things. Guy made this table. I know him, you know, but other than that, man, no one knows. It's the unknown because no one knows what the capabilities of these things are going to be.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, and the, the, the tech, the. The AI tech companies keep saying no trust is a lot of jobs are gonna be lost. But AI is going to create so many other jobs. But I haven't heard anyone answer what those jobs are going to be.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I don't even think they know. Honestly. They don't even know why these things are so good at what they are good at. They. They keep getting smarter and smarter and they blow them away. Like, Elon told me that every week he has like these new discoveries. There's like, what. This is crazy. Like, every week we're blown away. So they just. It just keeps getting more and more capable. We don't know where this is going. So if you're in college right now, like, I mean, it's so cliche to say follow your dream, but really do follow your fucking dream because that might be the only thing that you've got.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Because if you think you're just going to get a really good job in an industry that might be completely wiped out in three years by AI, that's a lot of people are going to be going down that path a lot. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. Is crime going to go up? We have people out of jobs. They're going to be, you know, what are these people going to do?

[Joe Rogan]

Could. I think it's universal basic income is probably the only way to solve, at least on the short term. Where. How. We're going to lose a lot of stuff. Look at you, man. You got a lot of little tabs and there.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I do.

[Joe Rogan]

Very organized. You're very organized.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, yeah, These are ones that I thought could be cool. That cool. Conversation starters for. For us. And we've kind of covered actually some of them. You ever had anyone read poems on the show before?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Lex Friedman.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Oh, there you go. All right.

[Joe Rogan]

You want to find a good one? We'll wrap it up with a great poem.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's go. This book is out right now.

[Matthew McConaughey]

No, September 16th.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, okay.

[Matthew McConaughey]

September 16th. This is a fun one that I wrote. It's kind of based on. It's called it's based on extra credit. It's kind of relying on fate or extra credit that we get that sometimes we rely on the extra credit. Participation trophies is where this one kind of started for me, so I made it. It's a fun one and it may get us talking about something. It's called tips included, okay? When extra credit's included, credit doesn't get its due. When more gives us less, the exchange rate's gone askew. When amnesty is offered going into the crime, we're more bound to commit it because there is no fine. We start playing to tie instead of going for the winter. When participation's the trophy for every cow in the pen. If I stay on the porch because you picked up the slack when you look over your shoulder, I can't have your back. If there is no curfew, we'll stay out all night. No tab at our bar, we get drunk and start a fight. All these long lenses got us losing our sight. You keep lifting it for me, I'm gonna lose all my might. When a four star duty suits a six star race. We take our hands off the wheel, rely on fate eating all we can at the all we can eat buffet gives us a 3.8 education and a 4.2 GPA. We steal from ourselves and get away with the scam. What's the measure of merit? With less give a damn. These unlimited options, mmm, they sure got me confused. While all the conveniences keep me properly lubed in this red light district with the horror of inflation. The ROI's math don't pay for the vacation. So let's just admit it, this extra credit's quite a fluffer. Cause when the tip's included, the service will suffer.

[Joe Rogan]

That's great.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We have fun.

[Joe Rogan]

That's really good and dead on. You fucking right on the head. Perfect.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's a fun one, man. I mean, yeah, I got. I think I came when my. The 11th place team got the same size trophy as the first place team and I was like, wait. They went oh and 10. But the winning team went 10 and oh. You kind of like saying oh. The winning team went five and five and the losing team went five and five. I don't get it. Don't hurt you. Don't hurt the feelings. Don't lose. Don't get told no.

[Joe Rogan]

Your feelings have to get hurt sometimes. That's how you learn and grow. And you can't protect anybody from that. And that's the problem. We want to do that with our children. All my best friends, all my favorite People had terrible, chaotic childhoods and they all became very interesting people. But I don't want my kids to have a terrible, chaotic childhood. I don't want them to have a wonderful, love filled, bountiful childhood that comes with. Well, I think. I think they have to find things that they. That they find that are difficult, that they get engrossed with, that they really love to pursue. And fortunately, my kids do that. But I think you have to have a struggle. You have to have a task. If you just want to, like, oh, you get a trophy too. Everybody gets a trophy. It's okay. There's no losers.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It got hard. Okay, Quit.

[Joe Rogan]

When my kids were real little, one of my daughters was playing a soccer game and they didn't, didn't. They wouldn't say the score. I'm like, but I know the score. I just watched. They lost.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't say there's no score. This is so crazy. But they were doing this in California. They had like scoreless games. I'm like, okay. I mean, like. But look, why are you trying to score then? Why are you trying to score if you don't count it? This doesn't make any sense. This is soccer. Soccer has a.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Why is that? Why is our goalie trying to keep them from scoring?

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly. What's the point, everybody? What's up with the rules? Pick it up with your hand, Chance. This is stupid. If. If you don't have a loser, you don't have a desire to get better, to become a winner. Yeah, that's a part of the process. Sometimes kids lose and they cry. And by the way, if you don't ever go through that, then you don't understand how to lose. So you never develop a healthy ability to manage competitiveness.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yep. Amen.

[Joe Rogan]

Some people just never get that. They. They never get healthy. Competition makes for a very unhealthy person to not be able to just compete.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, especially once they leave the house.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And they're on their own because the world sure plays by the rules. And the score is kept.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And you don't win, everyone.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

No matter how good you are.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And there's nobody coming back in to tuck you in bed and say, it's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Let's put some ice on it. You're dealing with yourself, man.

[Joe Rogan]

That wake up call, that's cold.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's cold blooded. I got a cool movie coming out called the Lost Bus, will be out in October. It's gonna be in theaters for a couple weeks. And it goes on apple and streams. Remember The paradise fires in 2018 in Paradise, California.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, I think the numbers, 30 people or so died. Jamie Lee Curtis heard this story on NPR and went to Jason Bloom, and Jason Bloom went to Paul Greengrass, who's The director of Captain Phillips United 93, Black Sunday, really good action director, but also with a good personal dramatic story in it. And then they came to me for it. And there were a lot of heroic people at that time that went. Ran towards the crisis instead of away from the crisis. But this one particular story about this bus driver and this teacher that got 22 kids to safety was the story we picked to tell. And we went and shot it in Santa Fe. This guy that I play is, oh, here's the trailer.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we're not listening to. Just tell me while this trailer's going on.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay, so this guy Kevin in our story comes back home because his dad has passed away and he's going to take care of his widowed mother and try to reunite with his son. Which by the way, check this out, Joe. My mom plays my mom and Levi plays my son.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow. In a movie, man, your mom plays your mom. That's cool.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. So he comes back through that and he gets a part time job as a school bus driver. He goes out that morning, there's a fire coming across the canyon. As they always do, no problem, first responders head out. Well, by the afternoon it had gotten out of hand and was jumping the canyon. And so that afternoon, as he's now decided, oh shit, I gotta go back and get my mom and my son, neither one of them even drive, get them to safety. On the way home, barging home to go barge on the highway to go get him. A call comes through Dispatch, I got 22 stranded kids on the east side of town. Is anyone over there with an empty boat bus, Whoa, guess who's got an empty bus. Want to go get my mom and my son, man? What? But he takes the call and says, I'll go get him. He goes and gets him a teacher. Their teacher gets on the bus and this is their story of about eight hours of going through hell and how and if they, they got out of it. And really awesome adrenaline pumped action, which you're going to get from Greengrass. And story like that. Like the fire. This is as good as a fire movie as there's been. The fire is a fucking predator. It's from the pov. It's like Jaws. The fire is actually like the shark and Jaws in this thing. Plus a really cool story of redemption. Father sons and, you know, two people doing what they can to survive when there were no. There were no contact. All the telephone towers were down and the dispatch was down. No one had any contact. So he didn't know if his mom and son were okay. He didn't know where to go, where the traffic jams were. And what happened is the first responders left Earth early to go get the fires. When they got there, it had already jumped the canyon. So when they were coming back to town, the mandatory evacuation, the whole town's leaving. It couldn't get back in town. So it's a. It's a bit of a horror film in that way, but movie Fire is predator, man. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That is what it feels like if you ever get stuck in one of those things. It feels like a monster.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That sounds awesome. That.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It's pretty good. It's tough, tough movie, but a good one.

[Joe Rogan]

Beautiful.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't wait to see it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Cool, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you for being here, man. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. And that poem was awesome. That was really good. So dead on the head.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the best participation trophy poem of all time. That's really good. The book is called There it is right there. Poems and Prayers Out Soon. Pre order now. Did you do the audio? You did, right? Of course you did. You have to. You can't have an actor do your voice. How dare you? That would be impossible.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. Thank you, brother. Appreciate you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Absolutely.

[Joe Rogan]

Goodbye, everybody. This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE premium live event on ESPN, Wrestle Palooza live on Saturday, September 20th at 7:00pm Eastern Time. It's going to be an epic night in Indianapolis featuring some of the biggest WWE Superstars like John Cena, WWE Heavyweight Champion, Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns, Becky Lynch, Jay Uso and more. The event is only on ESPN, so go to plus.espn.com WWE and sign up for the ESPN app today for your all access pass to Wrestle Palooza and all WWE Premium Live events.