#2381 - Taylor Kitsch

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2381 – Taylor Kitsch

Date: September 18, 2025
Guest: Taylor Kitsch
Host: Joe Rogan

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Episode Overview

This episode features actor Taylor Kitsch, best known for roles in "Friday Night Lights," "Lone Survivor," and "American Primeval." The conversation delves into Taylor's experiences with hunting, acting, his process of preparing for intense roles, the reality of working with military consultants, stories of his family's struggle with addiction (especially his sister's battle with opioids), his new nonprofit supporting sobriety and veterans, and the emotional toll and process of embodying dark or historical figures. The discussion is rich with insights on masculinity, dealing with loss, and the nature of tough personal transformations, interspersed with reflections on the state of Hollywood and contemporary American life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bow Hunting, Montana Life & the Outdoors

• Hunting as Bonding & Challenge: Taylor and Joe discuss their passion for bowhunting and the importance of pushing one's skills beyond the minimum effective distance for ethical kills, e.g., practicing at 90–100 yards to be deadly at 40–45 yards ([00:16]).
• Tracking as Photography & Adventure: Taylor parallels the intensity of stalking animals for hunting with wildlife photography, describing meditative aspects and adrenaline ([02:58], [03:59]).
• Living in Montana: Taylor has lived in Montana for over five years, drawn by its wildness and solitude ([05:07]).

2. Acting: Preparation, Pressure, and Process

• Immersion into Roles: Taylor is known for deep preparation, including physical training (e.g., exhaustive SEAL-style workups for "Lone Survivor"—live fire, simunition drills) and immersive research with indigenous elders and shamans for "American Primeval" ([09:54], [11:00], [17:46]).
• Learning from Experts: He worked closely with real Navy SEALS and military trainers, emphasizing the gravity and stakes of playing real people and honoring their stories ([17:54])—"First day was live fire. And that fucking gets you, right? That you do not fuck around" ([17:54]).
• Staying in Character: Taylor tries to remain engaged but not fully method outside of takes, noting the weirdness of lunching with "Taliban extras" between fight scenes ([27:30]).
• Pressure of True Stories: The emotional pressure of portraying real heroes like Mike Murphy in "Lone Survivor" ([24:23], [28:57]), the importance of prep to eliminate self-doubt, and his nervousness meeting the real families.

3. Grit, Trauma, and Recovery: Personal and Familial

• Sister’s Addiction & Recovery: An in-depth, emotional recounting of Taylor's sister Shelby's struggle through heroin, fentanyl addiction, multiple relapses, and eventual sobriety—punctuated by the difficulty of finding reliable treatment, costly stints in ineffective sober living homes, and near-death experiences ([40:17]–[55:33]).
• Starting Howlers Ridge: Inspired by his sister’s journey and recovery, Taylor founded a nonprofit, Howlers Ridge, a sober recovery retreat for addicts and veterans, emphasizing routine, healthy habits, and support networks ([40:17]).
• The Power of Rock Bottom: The life-and-death moment (overdose, Narcan, abuse, and the realization that her life couldn’t continue as it was), and how "every addict recovers differently—it's subjective; sometimes it just clicks" ([55:33]).

4. The Complexity of Human Nature: Roles, Grief, and Brotherhood

• Dark Roles and Emotional Fallout: The costs of delving into broken or evil characters (Kevin Carter in "Bang Bang Club," David Koresh in "Waco," Ben in "Terminal List")—how living with those mindsets can cause nightmares, mood changes, and require cathartic rituals like letter burning or long solo rides ([89:52], [92:23]).
• Brotherhood of SEALS and Vets: Deep admiration for military brotherhood, loyalty that runs deep, and how veterans’ mental health issues (addiction, trauma) are often misunderstood by civilians ([34:53], [36:02]).
• Grieving a Complicated Father: Taylor’s recent experience losing his estranged, alcoholic father, processing unresolved feelings, organizing a bagpipe memorial (his father’s passion), and how art/acting sometimes mirrors personal grief ([117:23]–[135:01]).

5. The State of Hollywood & Feedback Loops

• Negative Reviews, Social Media, and Mental Health: Taylor discusses how reviews and online vitriol (notably after "John Carter") once put him in a dark place, leading him to avoid reading all reviews now ([154:35]).
• Shift in Film Industry: Reflections on why LA/Hollywood production has waned, the nature of focus groups, and how audience response often diverges from critics' scorched reviews (see "Terminal List" and Adam Sandler movies) ([157:14]–[159:10]).
• The Power of Authenticity: Working on Jack Carr’s "Terminal List" series and appreciating stories rooted in real-life military experience ([160:03]–[164:12]).

6. Manipulation, Cults, and Human Vulnerability

• Portraying Koresh & Cult Psychology: Taylor shares the challenge of playing David Koresh, refusing to judge him while acting, and diving into the psychology and Bible memorization tactics Koresh used to manipulate others ([89:10], [137:47]).
• Leader-Follower Dynamic: Discussion on why people follow cults (tribal DNA, vulnerability, manipulative leadership); reflections on the disastrous Waco siege and its deep systemic failures on both sides ([143:04]–[150:47]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Preparation and Pressure

• "You prep to eliminate that self-doubt so you can be like, 'I'm ready for you.'"
  —Taylor Kitsch ([24:23])

• "First words to Dan [Murphy, the real-life father] were like, 'I'm going to do everything I have into this, going to do it as authentically as I know how.'"
  —Taylor Kitsch ([24:53])

On The Emotional Cost of Dark Roles

• "Bang Bang was harder than Koresh… Because I hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts."
  —Taylor Kitsch ([92:14])

• "You're kind of getting haunted by your characters… that's why you're so good."
  —Joe Rogan ([100:24])

On Addiction and Family

• "I've seen her detox on my kitchen floor, which is the worst fucking sight anybody… to watch someone in so much pain."
  —Taylor Kitsch ([41:21])

• "That's a good question. I think it was that moment of rock-bottom… it's so subjective, right?"
  —Taylor Kitsch on what kept his sister sober ([55:33])

On Brotherhood and Loyalty

• "Once you're in with these guys, you know, you don't take it for granted… he'll fucking bury someone for you, this guy. What do you need?"
  —Taylor Kitsch on Navy SEAL Ray Mendoza ([35:04])

On The Challenge of Embodying Koresh

• "The emotional beats… I just didn't understand how someone could do what he did. But it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma…"
  —Taylor Kitsch ([135:55])

On Criticism & Audience Response

• "John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history and we got hammered, obviously… I don't read reviews now… They’re not just like, 'he’s a bad actor,' it's like, 'this guy should die.'" —Taylor Kitsch ([154:34])

On Loss, Forgiveness, and Perspective

• "Even if he's not in your life, you're still like… to witness that is… heavy. I had to mourn him right. Am I living my life enough?"
  —Taylor Kitsch ([128:45])

On Montana & Nature

• "If I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself out there, it's your fault… Go get into wildlife, go to the national park, go for a walk, anything. Fix your perspective."
  —Taylor Kitsch ([171:06])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:16] – Bow hunting and shooting practices
• [01:12] – Taylor recounts his first deer hunt with Navy SEALs
• [03:59] – Parallels between hunting and tracking wildlife for photography
• [05:07] – Living and thriving in Montana
• [09:54] – Prepping for "American Primeval": shamanic work, immersion in Shoshone culture
• [17:46]–[24:23] – Intensive Navy SEAL training and live-fire exercises for "Lone Survivor"
• [28:57] – Emotional pressure and authenticity in playing real-life hero Mike Murphy
• [36:02]–[40:17] – How addiction and recovery in Taylor's family inspired his nonprofit, Howlers Ridge
• [55:33] – The moment his sister "clicked" and stayed sober
• [70:16] – Breaking his foot on "American Primeval" and commitment to finishing the work
• [89:10]–[92:23] – The emotional burden of dark/traumatized roles (Koresh, Carter)
• [117:23]–[135:01] – Processing his father’s death, bagpipes at the funeral, the cathartic process
• [154:34]–[159:10] – The sting of reviews, social media, and critics
• [160:03]–[164:12] – Working on "Terminal List" with Jack Carr and SEAL advisors
• [168:08]–[171:21] – The beauty and mental health benefits of the Montana wilderness

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Tone & Style

This episode is exceptionally candid, informal, and unfiltered—alternating between lighthearted banter, moments of raw vulnerability, and in-depth reflection. Both Rogan and Kitsch speak plainly, curse frequently, and are brutally honest about personal struggles, setbacks, and lessons learned. The energy is brotherly and supportive, with Joe often commending Taylor on his authenticity and work ethic.

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Summary Takeaways

• Preparation, Authenticity, and Endurance are central themes—Kitsch’s career, hunting, and recovery narratives all demand sustained work and honest reckoning with pain.
• Grief and Trauma can overlap between art and life—how immersing oneself in difficult subject matter for acting or in real experiences of loss can leave lasting marks.
• Support Systems Matter—whether brotherhood among SEALs, family during addiction, or mentorship among friends, overcoming life’s toughest obstacles is rarely a solo venture.
• America’s Cultural Shifts—the podcast touches on how Hollywood, audience feedback, and real-life suffering have evolved in the age of social media and the proliferation of “content.”

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Recommended for listeners who appreciate unvarnished stories about resilience, the hidden costs of creative excellence, the struggle for personal meaning, and the intricacies of the human spirit.

Transcript

[Taylor Kitsch]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

[Joe Rogan]

The Joe Rogan experience.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Train my day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Joe Rogan]

You know. 85. Yeah. Slap some headphones on the throne.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you have to. Well see if you ever gonna shoot something at 45, you really want to be comfortable at twice that. Okay, so I'll shoot 90. I'll shoot 100 yards. Yeah, yeah. Because that way when you get into 40, it seems normal.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Right. Seems easy day.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all just about like effect.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Would you take a shot at 85?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's far.

[Joe Rogan]

You might take a follow up shot. Like you know the animal's already gonna go down. Yeah, you can if you can. You should always get a second shot on them.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So I'll take a second shot at 85.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But have you had one? And. And it just ran, Just gone.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like 200, 300 yards.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you mean?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like if you shoot it and you know. Yeah. Hit it and it just goes into the bush and you got to track it. Fine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You can track them though.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Just leaking all over the place.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Blood trails.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially if you use a large mechanical broadhead.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So I've shot one deer in my life and it was after loan and I was on Latrobe. Yeah. And I was with Latrell and a couple other seals on his ranch. And you know, you're surrounded by seals, so it's like he's like, let's get you one. I'm like, yeah, let's go. And so we're on the ranch. Have you been there?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, it's great. And I don't know how many acres, but he had used to have like giraffes on the ranch and shit. It was crazy. You would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes. And I think they're. They've. They're gone now. But we pull into this like opening and he's like, there's gonna be some deer on the right. Lo and behold, a couple deer. He's like, okay, take that one. Pull out the M4. We're pretty far, but not crazy. And I'm nervous, man. Like, of course I've trained with the M4 and for loan and all this stuff, but I've never like, shot shot. And so I hit it and he's like, fucking great shot. Let's roll up, roll up. No deer. And you can hear it though. And it's like just losing his fucking mind. Oh, no, And I'm like, oh, fuck. And so the other seal, he's like, let's go. So we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner and. And we have to put him down with a pistol. And I was like, why'd you have.

[Joe Rogan]

To put him down with a pistol?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just because we walked right up on it and it was just dying. Yeah. And so I was just like, okay, this is part of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then we, you know, ate it and all that kind of stuff. But it was.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the good part.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it really is. But that was my one experience. But I did. I did go with my bro, loves hunting, and we went out in Montana, and there's on. On a friend's ranch and into the backcountry, and he was bo. And I love tracking animals for photography, so it's the same thing watching the wind getting up fucking before light hits, just getting deep. You're way up there, too, calling all that kind of stuff. And it's just so fun. And once you get in tight, your adrenaline is just buzzing. And we had eyes on this, like, big boy. And so then I'm doing the. He's, like, working his way up the mountain, up this pass, and I'm doing the antlers against the tree, and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up, and it starts bugling even more. And you're like, I'm not even taking the shot. And I'm like, this is fucking legit. And he, like, he pulls his fucking mask down and he's, like, getting into it. I see him, like, army crawling up there and missed, but we had a blast. It's more of, like, a bonding experience, man, than anything for us.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's a very intense experience, especially.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It really is.

[Joe Rogan]

THEY SCREAM and truly, the sound, like, gives you goosebumps.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It does.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially when you're close to them.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And it just goes through your body. It shakes you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing like elk.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know, I know.

[Joe Rogan]

It's really fun.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it takes a lot of work.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It is. You earn it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's a different hunt, right? Yeah. Just rifle. It's just rifle up there. And at least in that area, it's like, sometimes your. Your hunt's under an hour. You know, with bo, you're in one. This is days, possibly. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially if you want to get within 50.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And then that's the magic. Yes, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time. It's so fun.

[Joe Rogan]

You live in Montana now?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I do, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How long you been out there?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Five. Just over five years now. That's awesome. What made this choose that, man? Flying into Austin. I was here 16 plus years, so it's just memory lane. It's crazy. Crazy. This is where it all started, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, like Friday Night Lights. We're like school for the deaf. Just down the street. Land in the airport. Dylan Field was just across the airport. So. So many memories of Pete and I. We were staying at the Four Seasons, shooting the pilot. Learned to box here at Richard Lord's. If you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Richard Lord?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Richard Lord. There's a dock on him, actually. He's up. I don't even know if he's still around. He was pretty old when. When he taught me how to box. But Wicked dude just zenned out. He was probably in his mid-60s, so he'd be up there now. But yeah, Pete literally was like. Before we hit camera, it was like, hey, you want to go box? And I was like, all right. And I loved it. I loved it. And I still love.

[Joe Rogan]

When you say Pete. You mean Peter Bird?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Pete Bird, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He loves boxing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got his own gym.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Of course, L.A. of course. I do not spar with him anymore. He. It's Dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name. I bet you didn't fucking tell you that, did he?

[Joe Rogan]

Why is it Dirty Pete?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Because he's earned that, man. He's so, you know, you'll do body shots only or stuff like that and spar. Keep each other honest.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But fuck, you get him once. It's. There's no rules. There's no rules. And it's like you're on camera in like a week or something like that, try to give you a black eye. And then you, like, take it and you're kind of shocked at first. It just goes from like 2 to 11 so quick.

[Joe Rogan]

That's funny.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But, yeah, it's the best workout we.

[Joe Rogan]

Have a gym connected here. So last time.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No way here?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's right next door. We have.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No shit. Smart.

[Joe Rogan]

So we worked out together and cold plunged the whole deal.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He gets after it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He does, he does. He pushes. I mean, even when we shot American Primeval, he was his little garage setup, man. Cold plunge, steam room. Like, it's. He's gotta have it. Yeah, he's gotta have it for that brain of his. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

America Primeval was awesome, dude.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Thanks, man.

[Joe Rogan]

That shows. So good. I started watching it with my wife. But she's like nope, gotta go. She can't handle It's a lot things get intense. That's a fucking intent. But also probably super accurate. Yes, one of the most accurate representations of what life was probably like in the West. Coaches on the sidelines dripping in sweat, hoping they called the right plays. But you're not sweating. Thanks to DraftKings, they're hooking up new customers with a no sweat bet up to $100. It's easier than calling plays in a sold out stadium. Just place any bet. If it doesn't hit, we'll give you a bonus bet back in the amount of your initial bet up to 100 DOL. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. New customers use Promo code Rogan to get a no sweat bet. That's Promo Code rogan only on DraftKings sportsbook. The crown is yours. Visit opgr.org or call 1-877-MY-TAIN to talk, text or chat about your own or someone else's Gambling resources are free. Must be 21 and over and in Oregon to place wagers. Eligibility restrictions apply. No sweat Bonus bet issued in amount of first losing bet maximum $100 non withdrawable bonus bets expire 7 days after ISS. Additional terms and responsible gaming resources. See sportsbook draftkings.com promos this episode is brought to you by Visible. I want to let you in on something your current wireless carrier does not want you to know about Visible. Because Visible is the ultimate wireless hack. No confusing plans with surprise fees. No nonsense, just fast speeds, great coverage without the premium cost. With Visible, you get one line wireless with unlimited data powered by Verizon's network for $25 a month, taxes and fees included. Seriously, $25 a month flat. What you see is what you pay. No hidden fees on top of that. Ready to see. Join now and unlock unlimited data for just $25 a month on the Visible plan. Don't think wireless can be so transparent. So Visible. Well now you know. Switch [e-mail] rogan terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details back then.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah, I learned so much on that man. I mean, living in Montana, I got to this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch, had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston and I was telling her I'm playing a guy that kind of raised by Shoshone and all this and like that was kind of where I hung my hat of like if this guy lost his family at 6 or 7 and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone. This is who he is. He's more Shoshone than he is white. So I started working with this shaman, which was incredible, and then went down to the Shoshone reservation, Wind River. Worked with the elders there. It's tough, man, because obviously going there, you're like. And they knew I was coming. But it's like you're talking to these elders and it's like we meet five minutes in. And I'm like, so what do you. What do you guys do when you bury your wife? And you're asking these heavy, heavy questions?

[Joe Rogan]

Cultural questions.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That is true meaning behind it all. So she took a long beat and she's like, I'll get back to you on that. I'll get back to you on that. And then I went into this other room at the school there, and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair. And she sits there and she's like, what do you want to know? And so we just sat there for hours. And she was incredibly transparent and just really open. And I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, listen, if we're gonna, we gotta honor these guys, so let's do it right. And he was all ears. And the Shoshone was very tough to learn.

[Joe Rogan]

When you say working with a shaman, like, what did you do? Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So we'll do like two hour sweats.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a sweat loss.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How do they have that set up? Like a fire in the middle of it or something?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. So it's is always burning before you start to sweat. And then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone river. And then the fire's going. And he'll bring these rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge. And there's four doors to this one. And you'll talk, you'll fast the day before. And he'll put the river rocks in the middle and they're smoking hot, Right. And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever. And then you have you fast and then you have your intention ties. So you would sit down with them for an hour or two and talk about what you want out of this. Sometimes it's like, do I want to have a kid? Or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something. So I would bring him and have a sweat and just give him my energy in this sweat to help him or my dad passed or something or some. It can be light too. It doesn't have to be so heavy. But he's been amazing, like before, like, I start a movie in a couple weeks and I'm just gonna go do a sweat and get ready for that. And I just. Whatever he's gonna. Energy, he's gonna give me to go into this shoot. And then for the. For primeval, it was fucking beautiful. Like, I wasn't a good rider. I'm still not on horses. And he gave me, like, my horse has a feather. If you really watch, he's. I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him. And I wanted to do all these and honor the horses, which obviously the Shoshone do.

[Joe Rogan]

So he.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He just taught me a ton about. Just to honor that tribe and honor what. What they do and. And to be as authentic as possible. So that helped me root Isaac so much. But, yeah, that's a.

[Joe Rogan]

Such an intense character, I'd imagine. Like, you're playing a guy who's a white guy who's like, deeply ingrained with Native American life. And so it's like, it's all. It's very conflicted. There's a lot going on there. But you want. You. You want to embody what this guy would be like.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah. And you're. You meet him when he's mourning, right? And he's lost his wife and his son and he married into the tribe. So the. The female chief, I married her daughter and had a son. And so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning and everything is full circle. Everything is circular with them. So the only way he could reunite with his family is to. Is to die honorably. So that influences the way I fight. So the way Isaac fights is all in wild. Wild, like biting. I had. I just got chills thinking about this. There's a fight, I think, in episode two, which was fucking insane. And we didn't rehearse. This is very berg. And we have these. One guy's black feet. Unbelievable guy. And I kept using him. Cause he's a great stuntman. And so Pete's like, you guys are gonna fucking roll down this hill. And I want you to fight your way to the river and then we'll cut. And then I want you to fight in the river. This is like maybe 28 degrees in that river. The safety guy is like, whoa, whoa, this is not cool. And this is all like on the go. So JJ dashing on my double is like, all in. He loves this. This is near the end of the shoot too, so. And everyone's game. And that fight was just so fucking intense.

[Joe Rogan]

So is it choreographed at All.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

Nothing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Literally nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

So how do you know, like, when he's going to punch or you're going to. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So during. If it's you and me, it's like you will walk the area, make sure there's no sticks or whatever, that we're gonna impale us. And during the fight, I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna flip you.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then it's like, okay, I'm gonna get on top.

[Joe Rogan]

And then you have to say it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, okay, now work your way on top of them. And then we'll fight. Work our way. Roll. Work our way. And then he's like, okay, find a rock. Kill him. Jesus Christ. And then that war cry, which I'm so proud of. I worked on that forever, but. And I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before, but we're just rolling so quick. And I told our A camera Brett to get in tight. I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love. And I'm like, b. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this war cry. So don't go down to him or. And he's like, gotcha. And so when I did it, Pete finally called cut. And he goes, what the fuck? I was not fucking ready for that. And it's those moments, though, that. That he allows you to just go, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's such a smart guy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He is, man. When he's dialed, he's like, lone. He was just so present and early, and he just. I mean, we're surrounded by seals, as you know, every take. And I don't think you could do what we did to. In prep of just like, no producers, no Pete, no nothing. It's just every morning, 7am, 8am, we're up on the mountain with seals with Ray Mendoza and amazing guys. And we. First week is like, first day, man. I'm Canadian, so I haven't shot a gun in my life.

[Joe Rogan]

The first time you ever shot a gun was a lone survivor.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Well, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So first Chris Karachi, who's a legend, a man's man.

[Joe Rogan]

And he.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I think he was like one of the. On the first team SEAL team units and. And the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life. And like a fucking man. And he took me under his wing. And so our first day was live fire. And Karachi took me aside. He's like, hey, it's you and me. And I'm like, let's go. And I'm like as fit as I ever have been. I was running Town Lake, doing the Murph every three times a week with weighted vests. And just at Lake Travis High School there doing pull ups. And it was unbelievable fun training for that. And first day was live fire. And that fucking gets you, right? That you do not fuck around. And they make sure of it. And then I haven't. I hadn't met Marcus yet. And Foster had drove down, I think from Texas to New Mexico with. With Latrell. I was pretty jealous of that. It's like, ah, you got to spend some real time with Marcus. And I was playing Mike, obviously, and. And who is Marcus's best friend. And so we're on this fucking range doing live fire, like upside down reloads, combat reloads, jamming blindfold. It was just. It was full on. And Emil's actually a great shot. Marcus comes, everything goes full stop. And right when he's coming, there's a PA on the other side and she's bringing fucking banana shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors. And Marcus looks at these shakes and he looks at the actors and he's like, what the fuck is happening? You guys don't get shakes in between Vin. And one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes. And he's just talking to Marcus, meeting him for the first time. And I'm like, you might want to put that down. Like, wait till he fucking leave before. But. And then. It's just a beautiful experience, man. The second week of training, we were doing simunitions. Have you done that?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You would love it. So this will break skin and they hurt. It's like a hard plastic, paint tipped. And they fly like that, right?

[Joe Rogan]

They arc. Yeah, because they don't go as fast.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Right. And so we have sims now. And Mike would. My guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage. Get the out of here. Let's buy ourselves some time. Whatever. I gotta make these calls. And so the seals are in tally gear. And they're like, go up the mountain. Taliban gear. They're all dressed in tally gear. So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain. And they're all in Taliban gear. And you're like, oh, God, we're so fucked. So they're like, give us 10 minutes. And when you get ambushed, we're gonna watch and we're gonna engage and we're gonna see what you do, see what you've learned the last week. And you're like, all right, let's go. So it happens. And you're just walking, right? Just like we are in the film. You're just walking and waiting to get ambushed. You know shit's about to hit, and so they hit, and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming. And. And you can hear them, which really sets you straight. And so I'm looking over at Emile, and I'm like, 12 o'. Clock. They're just straight up in these trees. I'm like, 12 o'. Clock. Push, right? We gotta get the. Because we're in this open field. I just got chills. We're in this open field, and I'm like, get the COVID dude. We gotta fucking fight her. Way to cover. And Emil's, like, taking his time, and he's like, bro. Ah. All right. It's intense. And I'm like, push, right? I got Foster behind me, who's, like, so in it. He's crawling through cactus and, like, bleeding. And I'm on the ground crawling, screaming at a meal. Marcus comes out full. We got hammered. I literally don't think we got through a mag, like. And Marcus comes out, and we're not laughing, but it's too light. Like, we're taking it too lightly. And I'm like, emil, you gotta push, man. If I'm pushing. If I'm telling you. So Marcus comes in, and he's like, full stop. And he goes. I thought he was gonna rip Emile. And he comes over to me and he's like, is this funny? And I'm like, no, sir. And he's like, do you understand the stakes of this? Like, every one of you are dead. You're all dead. And so he just rips me. He's like, it's your fault. This guy doesn't want to move. Make a move, like, you're dead. Do you understand that? And I was just, like, just leveled, right? And it's a beautiful learning curve for me. And we got better. But, I mean, anytime. There's one time. I won't kill you with these stories, but one time, I was, like, proud of myself. Like, we got in a ditch, where it was too much simunition. Same thing. And we got in a ditch, and we're all here, and I'm looking downrange, like. Like, we're in one. We're still in a fight. And then, no joke, Mark Simos, the sniper seal, grabs my fucking shoulder, and he's like, boom. And I'm like, where the did you come from? Like, that's how good these are, man. So it was like, it was just an amazing experience when you train for.

[Joe Rogan]

Something like that, like how much time is spent, like when you know you got the role.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you know you're going to film, like how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Longer. I love prep, so. Yeah, I do. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Why do you love that?

[Taylor Kitsch]

The more time I can root myself into this guy, especially when the stakes are so high, like Murph. I mean physically was. I did this little comedy in Canada and if you watch this movie and I was training for loan during this movie, so it's called Skirwink Trail in Newfoundland. Beautiful fucking trail. And it's me, my best friend of 30 years and my assistant who is a great guy. And we're training for loan, getting ready, doing like 50 pound runs, weighted vests, all this kind of skirt, wing trail. So if you watch this movie, like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie. And, and so there's that. But obviously 90% of this is mental, right? The seals. And so I just love that. I love the prep. I love that pressure. Pete did a beautiful thing, bring in 19 guys died on the op, in the rescue mission. So it was like he brought all the families. I think it was a week before we hit camera. And man, you know, I'm going, it's. I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in Santa Fe or New or Albuquerque, and I'm nervous, like throw up nervous because I'm meeting Dan Murphy now and I'm like, did I do enough? Am I really ready? Am I worthy of this? And then we all have that voice in our head that's like, you're a pile of. You didn't do enough. You're not ready. And that's why I prep so much, because it eliminate. It's a fight, right? UFC or anything. These guys, you prep to eliminate that self doubt so you can be like, I'm ready for you, you know, so it's the same mentality. And so that was my first words to Dan were like, I'm going to everything I have into this, I'm going to do it as authentically as I know how. And he was just so gracious with me, gave Mike's 5G firefighter patch and just told me some amazing stories. And I'm super close with the Murphy family still. But I love prep, man. I, I think it's, you gotta have it, especially with Pete's Process. Like, if you're. He. He's so off the cuff sometimes, and if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct, and obviously that's guided him pretty beautifully. But you just got to be ready for anything. And if you don't prep, you're not rooted. You're not ready for anything, you know, so that one was a special one. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you. What? When you get into a character, like. Like if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long? Like, do you try. Do you break for lunch and just be yourself?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I try for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

But you're still trying to stay in the character.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, I try and be. I try and be with you in the moment at lunch. And not even though it's gonna be weird, though. It is weird because you're on location. Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

On top of the mountain. You're taking the ski lift up there.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's so important to be this guy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah. And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys, you know, and they're coming, and they're like, hey, man, we're big fans.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And you're like, this is weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. We're supposed to be shooting at each other in 20 minutes.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man. And so, I mean, Wahlberg's quite light in between, so that can be infectious in a good way. Ben is very, like, He's. He carries that weight in a beautiful way. That's why he's so good. Emil's quite light, but, yeah, there's definitely a tone. Right. Especially when you're surrounded by the seals. It's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving. But, yeah, you're up on that mountain having a sandwich, helping camera crew move their shit, and then lunch is always quick, so you're right back into it. And it depends on the day. Like, if. I know, like, the climb up to Murph's death was. You're just carrying more weight that day. You just cannot fuck around. You better get that fucking right.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I remember being Emil comes up to me and he's like, hey, if we get off tonight, I'll go full circle with this. If we get off tonight, you want to go see Eddie Vedder. I'm like, fuck, yeah. I love me some Vedder. And that was in Albuquerque. And so we go to Vedder, meet him Vedder calls him up, sings a couple songs to him. It was unbelievable night. And Pete, the next day comes up to me, and we're back up in the mountain doing some. The fall off the. The cliff. We're doing that the next day. And Pete's like, hey, your destiny. I want to talk about it. And I'm like, all day. What do you. What do you want to know? I got some thoughts on it. And, you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel, and he won't. He remembers one specific thing he'd like me to do. And so Murph brought. Was pushing himself up with his rifle, climbing up this rock. So I'm like, that's really all I want to make sure for Marcus's sake that I get that in. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we're going to shoot this in a parking lot just outside on. Off the highway in Albuquerque. And I'm like, yeah, right? And he's like, no, no. I want to control the light and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph. And I'm like, Pete, you. You're killing me. We're gonna do this in a parking lot. And so it was my last day as Murph. And I love music. I'll always have a playlist for whatever character. And explosions in the sky. Who's awesome? Who was at the time, Austin bass. Great guys. And Pete uses them all the time. And they're just acoustic, no lyrics, which is. They're amazing. And so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it, and that was my song for Murph. And it slows down in it. And so I go, you know, I. Prepping in the. In the trailer. I walk down through this parking lot and I'm like, oh, dude, I'm not in it. I'm not ready for this. And then I'm getting mad at Pete for putting me in a parking lot to do this. I'm looking at Sandia Hotel getting ready to go, like this most epic death on. You know, it doesn't get more epic than that guy really put in the tunes. And they built this big stage that was like 4ft high and the rocks. And then surrounded it by green screen and cameras. On the Phantom camera, which is that uber slow motion, that's where you see the. The spit coming out of Murph's mouth and all this. And. And I just broke down, like, just. I puddled myself right before. It was just like months and months and months of thinking about it and. And prepping and putting so much pressure. And then I had explosions in my head. And I was like, God damn, this Is like, you're overwhelmed with emotion. And Pete comes up and he's like, get it out. And so I took five minutes. Camera crews waiting. We did. Like I told Pete, I want that rifle to him to climb up with the. The rifle. And I think we did three takes. And then the camera crew. Jacques was a. He's a DP. He DP'd American primeval, but he was a camera op on. On loan. And he was working that slow mo camera. And he just goes to Pete, he's like, we've got it. We've got it.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it weird watching on film, knowing that you shot it in a parking lot? Like, trying to.

[Taylor Kitsch]

This is the first time I told this story. Very much like we would go. We went. And the first time I saw this film, man, was in. I think it wasn't Redskins, it was Denver, the Broncos. We go and show this to the Broncos. And Robert Griffin III was the quarterback, I think. Yeah, he was there. And I was with Ben Foster, and Ben had seen it, and I was. I watched it the first time with the Denver Broncos sitting in this theater, and I was a mess. A mess. Yeah. It's just the pressure, right? I think.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But I love it.

[Joe Rogan]

Do it honor.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, truly. And then my first email was to Dan, his dad, and he thanked me, and that's all that really f. And Marcus. But, yeah, they thanked me, and that was really all I need.

[Joe Rogan]

That's got to be a very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Maureen, Johnny, Dan, the whole family. And there's a destroyer. Fucking beach male up or not ups, but like a fucking stamp or whatever named after him. There's fucking. It's insane. There's all these huge honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff. So if you let it, like, overwhelm you, it definitely can. Yeah, but it's been. I mean, that's where all this. My love for these guys is really stemmed from that. You know, that's where it's like. I've played seals a lot, and it's. It's. I'm never raised military or my grandfather served, but it was. It's an infectious group, man. It's like a brotherhood that's so real.

[Joe Rogan]

Exceptional humans.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly. Truly. And people don't understand. These guys are the best problem solvers on the planet. They're doctors, they're lawyers, they're smart. And so, I don't know. I've just been embedded. And I think once you're in with these guys, you know, you're. You're. You don't take it for granted. It's like I've made calls to a buddy of mine that one of the most decorated seals alive, and he trained me for loan. Ray Mendoza. He just came out with Warfare, that movie. That's his best friend, his story and. Unbelievable guy. But I'll call Ray. And Ray was doing second unit on. On Terminalist, Dark Wolf. And he's like a brother to me. And no joke, you're like, hey, man, I need a favor. And he's like, he'll fucking bury someone for you, this guy. Like, yeah, what do you. What do you need? What. What is it? And it's like. It's just that whole brotherhood that it's like, unquestionably, undeniably loyal.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And like Marcus, like, I mean, we're chatting a lot lately just because I'm shooting in Huntsville in a couple weeks and he's not far, but like, my. My sister. I took some time off to help my sister because she was using drugs and. And I just needed somewhere to go. Just. I can't be in Austin. I tried la. She's still using, she's still relapsing. I fucking. Marcus. Call Marcus. I'm like, let's. I. This is what's going on. He's like, bring her here. Bring her to the ranch. There's no fentanyl, there's no heroin, there's no meth on this ranch, man. Bring her here. And so I. She's not using at the ranch. So we went to the ranch and 10 days. I know she's gonna be fucking clean because there's just. All we're doing is driving around looking for hogs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Or like hanging out, fishing, whatever it is. But he's just a beautiful guy, man. And where he is now is just. He's lighter on his feet. It's so beautiful to see. He was hurting on loan, going through a lot of surgery still, all this stuff. So they're just so loyal and just great guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Very, very exceptional people. Your season, your shot. The NFL season is rolling and every touchdown can bring you closer to a payout with DraftKings sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL. Every game is another chance to cash in. Don't just watch the action, win with it. DraftKings sportsbook delivers the unmatched intensity of the NFL right to your fingertips. From the first touchdown score to any time, td, props or the thrill of live in game betting. Every snap is loaded with opportunity. New customers. This one is for you. Bet just $5 and get $200 in bonus bets instantly, plus score over $200 off NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. Your season is heating up. Download the Draft King sportsbook app and use the code Rogan. That's Code Rogan to get $200 in bonus bets instantly. When you place your first $5 beta plus over $200 off NFL Sunday Ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPE&WY or text Hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Fees may apply in Illinois 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario. Bon. Expires seven days after issuance. See sportsbook DraftKings.com promos NFL Sunday Ticket offer for new subscribers only and auto renews until canceled. Digital games and commercial use excluded restrictions. Apply additional NFL Sunday ticket [e-mail] go NFL Sunday Ticket terms limited time offer. Have you been paying attention to what they're doing in Texas for veterans?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

I began initiative. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

Huge.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's so remarkable how effective it is.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And how many people. It's completely saved their life and change their life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, and I was just thinking about that for your sister, you know, I don't know.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. She's clean 10 years now. Just under 10.

[Joe Rogan]

That's amazing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Thanks. She's a nurse now.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Which is incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

That's great.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. She's. It's really kind of like that's where that nonprofit comes from. I just started it called Howlers Ridge, and I didn't even know, like, when she got clean. Like, there's some crazy stories I can tell you, but she's. She got clean and she hit me up. And she was at a sober escape with all the girls she got clean with. And I'm like, what is that? And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through your sober living or whatnot. The last place she got clean was she was supposed to be there 90 days. She was there nine months.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, that's what I said. And so she was at this sober escape. And so Howlers Ridge is basically a place I think we all know, an addict if we're not ourselves. And. And we're gonna help vets as well. But it's the sober side of addiction. So it's a place anytime you're using. At least through my experience, watching my sister die a couple times, get Narcanned a couple times. I mean, I've seen her detox on my kitchen floor, which is the worst fucking sight anybody. To watch someone in so much pain. But this. This spot is for her, you know, where. Where it all started. And this is, I think, anytime you're using. Right. We're all habitual humans. You work out six, seven times a week. You need that for your brain. So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change. If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a. And I get depressed. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, I get anxious.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, very.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And. And I get. And I beat the. Out of myself.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Mentally. Yeah, I feel terrible.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So we all create this environment, whether it's good or bad.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I think with my sis, I just didn't have anywhere to take her, and I needed to pull her out because there was a time I. She relapsed like, four or five times in la, and I was just finishing True Detective when I got her. And, I mean, there's stories, but, like, it's pretty fucked up, that whole system, because you have someone that's dying, right? It's someone you raised or your brother, fucking best friend, whatever. And I bring her to this. Well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story. My mom calls me and she's like. Like she's been using for this long. And I go full hero mode. I didn't even know what fentanyl was, really. Yeah, I didn't. This is right after True Detective. I really wasn't exposed to it. I knew heroin, of course.

[Joe Rogan]

So what is this, like, 12, 13 years ago?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, right in there. Whenever the end of.

[Joe Rogan]

You didn't know what fentanyl was?

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, I knew. I knew. Like, with the seals, they had fentanyl patches for the pain. And then of course, like. But that's really all I fucking if that. Like, obviously I educated myself on it after, and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin. It's a deathbed drug, put you to sleep. And so I got this call and I'm like, I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down, like, hero mode. And she comes and. I had no idea what was going. And she had used right before she flew. And so she was in withdrawal. Oh, God is right, man. And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one bedroom apartment in Marina del Rey, 15, like literally a hallway from here, about this long actually. And it's late and she's just pacing because she can't sit still because the muscle contractions are so bad. And I'm like, shells, just take, go to bed, take my bed and just try and sleep. She's like, no, no, no, no, you don't understand, I have to move. And so she tried sleeping, going, laying down. Muscle contractions are so bad. She fell off the bed. And I'm like, okay, let's go for a walk. And the beauty of our relationship and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency. Like, you gotta fucking be real with me. Tell me when you used, tell me how often, like everything she did, which is so tough to hear. And so we ended up walking down Abbot Kinney at three in the morning and no one's obviously out there and we just did this crazy walk and talk and I'll never forget it. And it's just heartbreaking. And I get her and I call. I don't even know if she needs to detox. So I call the hospital, Marina del Rey, and they're like, no, we don't take anybody that's using right now. You. They have to be detoxed and we may be able to help them after. So I'm like, okay, what the is okay? We got, got a detox. And so I call this place and they're like an hour away. And she's like, I have a bed for her and bring her at 6:00am I got this little wrangler, a two door wrangler. And she's in the back seat, my mom in the front, and she's like almost kicking the glass out because the muscle contractions of my jeep and I was like, holy. Like such a wake up call that I had no idea it was this bad. So reality's kind of setting in. And she kept asking for methadone. I want methadone because she had detoxed before on methadone. And. And so I go to this house and I knock on the door and she's in the back seat, she's got her little backpack, and it's this woman, like butchy, in like presence. She opens the door, she's like, just a matter of fact, where's your sis? And I'm like, oh. She's grabbing her bag, she's like, well, Bring her here. I'm like, okay, Shells, let's go. She comes, and Shells is like. Like, I need. Doesn't say hi, nothing. She's like, I need methadone. And she goes, well, when did you use? Blah, blah, blah, and all this? And she tells her, and she's like, oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet. We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey. You're gonna. You're gonna have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer, and you're gonna sweat this out and show it's funny now, But Shelby goes to her knees, and she's like, I need methadone. She goes, no, no, no. What did I just say? And she's like, you getting Gatorade? Muscle relaxer. And you're gonna watch some movies and you can smoke, no phone. She was incredible. Four and a half days later, she called me, and she's like, your sister's good. Bring her to a sober living. Just by Venice high. And it's 30. Like, when someone's almost ready to go, you're. I'll do anything. Right? And they know this. And so it's 30,000 for the month, and it's sober living. You'll have one session, which isn't enough because she has some trauma and with a psych. And I was like, one in 30 days. One every week.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I was like, we need a lot more than one a week. And so I draw, and my sis was a runner, and so do you sign this contract, and it's like, if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this and that, you. She's out. We kick her out, and we keep your money. Two hours in. Gone. I get a call. Yeah. I get a call from this LA number, and I'm like, no way. Okay, there's 30 grand gone. I'm gonna find another one. She went to another one, a little better. Cool. Yeah. I got twice a week. Two days later, she runs again. So I'm down 65k in three days. And I'm like, bleeding cash. And then I figure out, like, another spot. She stayed, like, 30 days, relapsed, and then, yeah, she kept relapsing. And then multiple times. Narcan up in Calabasas, There's a place. And she left. And this one girl, she had night terrors. And so they would. She had. I would walk around Joe with this Ziploc bag of pills of, like, antidepressants for her night tears, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma. For whatever beat it would be within her. Right. And there's an amazing doc up there and South African guy that deals with women addicts and trauma. And she was there for a while and that was really great. And she got a hold of these sleeping pills and they supposed to give you one every night. And the girl put the bottle up on the little half door. You know those doors? Swinging doors. Yeah. And so she grabbed the bottle and she was. As a lot of these sober livings are, they're pretty incestuous. And the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa, obviously. And she was dating a kid named Mike there. And so she went to that part of the house and said goodbye to Mike. And to this kid's credit, he was like, that's a little weird. You didn't say good night. You just said goodbye. And so she goes up, hammers 60 something sleeping pills.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, Jesus.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And he goes and tells. He's like, hey, this ain't right. You gotta go check on her. So long story short, call the ambulance. And the medic, to his credit is like, go grab the bottle and grabs a bottle and shows this medic and he's like, we're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance. And what saved her life were their time release. Isn't that fucking crazy?

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Wild. So I got this call and I lost my mind for giving her the bottle. But yeah, she. At that point, she kind of just ran again. Went to a drug house. She hates using needles, so someone would shoot her up. Yeah. So as you know, if you're sober 92 days, whatever it was, if you use what you were using before, you're gone. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So they dropped. It's a movie. They dropped her off at the stupidest hospital and she got Narcan. I didn't know any of this part. I didn't. I wasn't privy to this yet. I'm just driving around looking for. And anyway, she's just to go back to that environment. I'm like, I'm out of money. We gotta. I gotta send you back home to Vancouver. And she's like, you put me to Vancouver, I'm gonna die. And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either. And she was at a psych ward on 34th and Lamar. That was a up story, but for like 10 days. But anyway, she went to this place called the Westy House in New Westminster, just outside Vancouver. And it was a woman's only. And she was there, she ran there and I got her Back in. And she got clean and hasn't looked back since. Ran again. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, Vancouver, those phone calls must be rough.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I didn't even know what Al Anon was. And I was at 360 Bridge. There's a church just across 360 Bridge. And I was at this Al Anon. And. And I'm waiting. I didn't. Shells has been gone, so I'm waiting for the call of like, okay, she's finally overdosed and gone. And so I'm a mess. And I'm in Al Anon just waiting for this call. And I'm judging everybody in this Al Anon. Like, there's this woman across from me.

[Joe Rogan]

She'S like, yeah, my husband, he used.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And yeah, I got Christmas with him. And I'm like, fuck, that's easy day. I'm like, you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here, you know? And then you hear another story and you're like, that's bullshit. You guys are pussies. All in my head. And so I just listen. It does help or help me a lot. And I come out and this one guy, he's like, hey, you're heavy. You gotta. You wanna talk or anything? You didn't say a word in there. And I'm like, right when he said that, my sis called and she was downtown Vancouver and she had just used and got scared straight. Some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her. And she's like, I can't do this no more. So she was scared straight and she.

[Joe Rogan]

Said, so that's what got her sober.

[Taylor Kitsch]

She got. She was downtown Vancouver, called me and she's like, can you get me back in Westie house? And I call Susan was her name, and call her back. And I'm throwing everything. I'm like, I will support you guys. Can you give us a bed? Can you get her one more time? I know she's not allowed back and all this. And she goes, I'll call you back. And she got.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Taylor Kitsch]

Wouldn't it be great to manage your.

[Joe Rogan]

Portfolio on one platform?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Well, now you can trade all in one place. On Robinhood. That means you can trade individual stocks and ETFs and also buy and sell crypto using seriously powerful and intuitive tools at one of the lowest costs on average without needing to manage multiple apps. Robinhood makes withdrawing and depositing crypto seamless. Send crypto to your Robinhood account or send crypto from your Robinhood account to other wallets without deposit or withdrawal fees from Robinhood. Trade all in one place. Get started now on Robinhood Trading. Crypto involves significant risk. Crypto trading is offered through an account with Robinhood Crypto llc. Robinhood crypto is licensed to engage in virtual currency business activity by the New York State Department of Financial Services. Crypto held through Robinhood crypto is not FDIC insured or SIPC protected.

[Joe Rogan]

Network fees may apply to crypto transfers.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Crypto transfers may not be available to all customers. Investing involves risk, including loss of principal. Securities trading is offered through an account with Robinhood Financial LLC member sipc, a registered broker dealer got her bed and she was there nine months. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So what. What was it that finally kept her sober? Did she say?

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's a fucking good question.

[Joe Rogan]

Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee?

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's a good question. I know. At times it was like she has. We have nieces and nephews and she wanted to get clean for them, but that didn't last. I think it was that moment of getting scared straight. Like, you just can't keep doing this rock bottom. Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's so subjective, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

We all know somebody that's like, I stopped drinking yesterday. Yep, done.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like my buddy over there you just met, it's just like he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since. And it's like sometimes it just clicks and they're like this life, I don't want it anymore. And some just can't break that habit.

[Joe Rogan]

But yeah, it varies so much.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Thanks, Jimmy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But yeah, she's a lot like me too. Super. I'll steal some.

[Joe Rogan]

Get some dog.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Thanks, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's a beautiful story, tragically. Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It ends well.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But it very well couldn't have.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Imagine if. If that guy didn't say goodbye. What is goodbye? Why. Why goodbye? What the going on? Yeah. That one guy probably saved your sister's life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I want to kill that guy, by the way, because he's. He relapsed with her and used with her at that drug.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know, man. So that, like, for me is a big part of Howler's Ridge and then with the vets is we just chatted. I love these guys and, and the families and so hopefully we'll have you talk about ibogaine. I know we can't do that in Montana yet, hopefully. But I hope up there on Howlers Ridge we can maybe in a year or two we'll see what happens. That we can do some of that up there.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think it's going to be so effective in Texas that it's going to spread. And I think the fact that they're starting with veterans.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because these guys don't get. Get any support. I know you think about what they have to go through when they go off to war with the things that they experience and then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them and they're. They just. They're all up and then they're hooked on pills.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And the pills are just. You can cookie monster a jar if you want, and they'll refill you like. And there's different outlets, like Virginia, Hawaii, Florida, doctors in each one that are sending you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And it's. That's you literally at your doorstep, you're getting these jars of pills. It's like you're giving. And these guys obviously have addictive personalities. That's what makes him so great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's one thing.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a weird thing, right? That the addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Well, beautiful, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I mean, if you use it, if.

[Joe Rogan]

You harness it, but it can go sideways on you, which is really weird.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It is. That's one thing. And it's funny because not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I Had played this guy already before and I lose my trident in it. And Mendoza's kind of getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it. And he's just a brother of mine. And it was a big moment that I learned because these workups say you work up on a Thursday and you go at 2am to 7am and you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably get, have a few drinks and then you have another workup on Tuesday. But let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op. You're back in workup Tuesday morning. So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza because he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody. And I was like, there's literally no time to mourn. There's no time to register the loss of this. So you're just harnessing this pain and this, all these emotions.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And you're just like, okay, I guess I'm back in the fight and I'm gonna do this for at least another few months before I'm out of my six month tour. And that really kind of knocked me out and that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee jerk emotion and way more of a live wire. Because it's like who we talk about how subjective mourning is, you know, it's like everyone mourns differently.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So it's like I just made that choice with Ben of just like, this guy's just a mess and let him just emotionally make these decisions then. And that's where I took him.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you have conversations with other vets that were addicts and that were up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma and.

[Taylor Kitsch]

All the time. All the time. It's so common. It really is common. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It only makes sense. It would be crazy if it wasn't common.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. Yeah. You're right.

[Joe Rogan]

What you're asking them to do.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. And we don't know the half of it. No, we really don't.

[Joe Rogan]

We don't know any of it. We.

[Taylor Kitsch]

We don't.

[Joe Rogan]

If you don't physically experience it, you're just making things up.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And I mean, I think obviously with Red Wings and stuff like that, with loan. But then you talk to these guys in between takes and they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this, but it's like, where are they putting this Energy after they're out. Like, they gotta find another purpose that's so heightened when you're serving, there's no bigger purpose. You're killing bad guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like that's incredible. With your brothers right next to you. Like, that's a heavy thing to carry. And then when they come out, now what.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I'm gonna go walk Walmart and.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just be a dad. And that's just a whole nother life.

[Joe Rogan]

That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Me.

[Joe Rogan]

That was such a good movie.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it was so good. The way he explained or. Or the way it played out, how this guy just could not go back to normal. Like, it just wasn't working.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He.

[Joe Rogan]

He didn't give a. He'd rather be back out there.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Down.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I mean, you look at Marcus, too. After Red Wings, he went back to Ramadi.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Which is. Wanted to die with his boots on. I mean, these guys are. This is kind of the ufc, right? Of like. These guys are modern day Gladiators. Warriors. And I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like you got a guy like Marcus or the Mendoza, or these guys that are just truly born warriors. There's just a. There are a different breed.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's why they get it through Buds, too.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You got to be a different kind of human.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah. More mental than physical.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I mean, Mendoza was running Buds too, and he would say, a lot of times, you look at these fucking scrawny guys. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Those are the ones that make.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then you got the D1 athletes that haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically. Up here, though, they're not as strong. And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Those stories.

[Joe Rogan]

It's kind of the case with fighters too, sometimes. Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions because they're tougher and they work harder because they don't have it given to them easily. You know, they can't half ass in the gym. They have to be all in.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. It's the life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's the sacrifice. What are you willing to do?

[Joe Rogan]

And you, you, you know, you have to be all in in that job. Both jobs.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And comfort can kill you.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah. In everybody's life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I hate it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

I hate it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. Man.

[Joe Rogan]

I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy that I'd be just chilling and going to the beach. Like, now you're going even hard and. Yeah. No, I fucking hate it. I think it's the enemy. It really is the enemy of happiness.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Really.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Even, like, me with acting, it's like, I live for it. I love it. And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. It's not like I was gifted this talent or it truly isn't. I'll just outwork people. And then now it's like, 44 now, which is crazy. And now I'm starting to be like, okay, you're thinking about kids. You're thinking about, I need a little more balance. But then I start this balance, and it scares the fuck out of me, and I don't like it.

[Joe Rogan]

How does it scare you?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just. It's the comfort, right? It's like, oh, kitsch. Don't take this. Just go keep fly fishing. Keep. You know, just go on a motorcycle trip. Go. Which is great. And I'll still do it, but I'm just so conscious of it. Of, like, don't get comfortable. Don't think. Don't rest on your work.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, comfort's not bad if you earn it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But you gotta earn the fuck out of it where, like, when you're sitting on that couch, you know that you actually need to recover. Like.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're gonna keep going, you need to recover. So, like, watching south park is probably good for you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Actually, like medicine. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, just fucking let me just zone out and.

[Taylor Kitsch]

True. True.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But there is that, I think. I don't know. Do you have that with the. The fear of failure still? Of just, like.

[Joe Rogan]

Of it all falling apart?

[Taylor Kitsch]

That. And, like, I'm on set in two weeks and I'm scared.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And it's a heavy role. Ton of dialogue.

[Joe Rogan]

That's because you're doing the right thing. I know it's what you're supposed to.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Be doing, but I can't sit on that couch because I'm like, what the are you doing, kids?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, now you can't sit on the couch because it's getting ready.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Go time. Yeah, but that's why you. You're doing what you do.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I mean, you.

[Joe Rogan]

You have to be a little scared of what you do. You have to be. Yeah, like, Monday, I'm going elk hunting.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Kind of freaking out, which I always do, because it's hard.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it is.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. I got in shape. I got, like. Did a lot of cardio, a lot of leg workouts because you're going. You're huffing it up. Those mountains I shot, got three hours of arrows today. Three arrows and pulling. Three hours. I'm pulling back an 80 pound bow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No joke.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's. It's a lot of work, man. I work hard, but it's. Because when it's there, you want to be prepared.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Leading up to it, I get like, super serious. I get like, really, like, where it's. It's with me all day long. I know it with me when I'm putting in my underwear with me while I'm sitting in the cold plunge, I'm thinking about the mountains because it's a hard thing to do. And that's why I do it, because I love it and. But it's also because it's a hard thing to do. And when you're getting ready to do like a roll, that's like a intense roll. The nerves are a good thing. They're your friend.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. That truly keeps you honest feeling. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't eat. Like, that's. That's your friend.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Or you're.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Looking through my girlfriend.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You barely listen.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Running lines.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep. Yep.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And what if I do this in this scene?

[Joe Rogan]

Huh? But they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement. I can't hear.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then you're an asshole.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Like, what did you say? You're not listening.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I was.

[Joe Rogan]

I was listening. I just spaced out for a second. I'm sorry.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing. Or I'll just literally be like, I'm going on a bike ride and I'm gone for two, three hours, and then I'm running shit in my head. Or. It's so true, but it's the same. I equate it to, like, when we're rolling, it's like, you ain't hiding no more, kids. You're. You're in it. It's the same thing. Once you get exposed to that elk, it's like, this is your moment.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

We're gonna see if you did the work.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

100. Yeah. I think people. Everyone needs something like that, but it scares people, so they shy away from it and they look towards something that's guaranteed. You get a guaranteed paycheck. It's easy, it's simple. But that's the.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's.

[Joe Rogan]

That's your enemy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how. That's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Not good. You're very fortunate. You're very fortunate you've been able to do what you love and that. What you love is, you know, it's. It's very exciting.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like. And it's very exciting to other people. It's very rewarding. Yeah, I do. I fucking loved you in American Primeval.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Thanks. That role. That was my gladiator.

[Joe Rogan]

That was intense. That one scene where you're getting changed and you see all the cuts all over your body.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You like, like, whoa. Like, it just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That scene. I lost a bunch of weight for it. And then Howard Berger did my makeup for that, and he's incredible. And that scene, man, that scene meant.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot because it's everything you saw. That guy is raw, naked with his.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Shoshone brother and wakes up with him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Covered in scars.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then goes into that teepee with the chief. The. The mother of his wife that he lost. And I wrote that scene, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And so Pete. Pete. And I came up with its only pain. And then I. I broke my foot and got a bone cut out of it on this. That show. And you know the scene where bone.

[Joe Rogan]

Cut out of it?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Why they cut a bone out.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So there's a scene where I go down to get horses and I kill five or six guys at the skinning camp. And I think it's episode two. And Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down and she's like, didn't trust me? And she comes down. I have to kill these guys. During that sequence, I broke this. My foot. And they call cut. And I go to Dashnaw, the stunt coordinator. And I'm like, oh, it's broken. And he's like, I've worked with him for 15 years. And he's like, don't with me. And I'm like, no, Dash, it's broken. I got this shooting pain in my groin. And he's like, get the out of here. And I'm like, yeah, so finish the scene. And they. They spray fucking biofreeze on my foot. And I'm like, guys, it's broken. Like, I'm fucked. And so I go to Bozeman and he's like, it's this small bone right on the side of your foot right there that goes up and down right.

[Joe Rogan]

Here next to your toe.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Connecting my big toe. It's on the side bone on my big toe. And so he's like, oh, you can wear a boot. It's a small bone, so you won't need to It'll heal itself. So I go back and I'm in a boot doing this fucking show. And I got a 6 foot 6 wrangler. So when I get off that horse, 90% of the time I think his name's BJ. Great dude, big cowboy. And he's below me off camera taking my weight because I can't step off the horse because I'm in a fucking boot.

[Joe Rogan]

Medical boot.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And then six weeks goes by, or a month, and I go back to Bozeman, take my boot off, and he does one last X ray and he's like, you need to be in surgery today. Oh, no, that's what I said. That's a shitty call in Netflix and Pete. And so I got surgery. And then right before surgery, he's like, we can pin it, but you're going to be super active and it may not take. Or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it.

[Joe Rogan]

Bone wax?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I didn't know there was a thing. I don't know either.

[Joe Rogan]

So you just said cut it?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because you wanted to go back to work.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So they cut a chunk of bone off and what is bone wax?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I think it just is a protective coating over it. Oh, look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

Commonly supplied in sterile sticks. Usually requires softening before it can be applied. It's generally made of beeswax softening agent. Uses paraffin or petroleum jelly. And it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone, blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Still don't know what it means.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what this mean. Is a tamponade. Tamponade effect, but closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding. You have a tampon on your foot, bro?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, I do.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

So does your foot with you now?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it's. If I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's. Or if I'm doing, you know, if I'm tracking or doing something. Side hilling, which I hate. Right Side hill hiking. I hate it. I have a terrible knee as well. That's where it bites. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then. Yeah. So I dealt with that. We had to. I had to be on the couch for six weeks. But my first day back was those two scenes and I had called Pete and I'm like, hey, I wrote this scene. I'd love to. Because that scene was exposition with my mom. At first. We were talking about red feather and stuff and I'm like, this is my first day back after losing Them that I haven't seen her since I've lost her daughter and her grandson. So this guy can't get through anything. So that was the crutch. And thank you for noticing. That's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It was intense scene because it was so realistic.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like. Like, well, that's what a guy would look like. Like, I hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And they take their shirt off and it's supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment. They just look soft. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Or he's stacked and that's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

In the gym. Yeah. Eating creatine. No, you. You look like a hard man. Like a hard man who's been through some hand to hand combat.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It looked very realistic.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You had to starve yourself for that.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Taylor Kitsch]

I had time looking. I had time, which was great. I lost 30 for that. Whoa. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a lot of weight.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. But I had done it. I did this one film called the bang bang club here. I was just living off lamar here. And I play this drug addicted true story about these war photographers Right before the. During the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election, Kevin Carter is his name. He won a pulitzer for this epic shot that he took. Got a lot of flack for it and ended up taking his own life. But that. I had 30 days to prep, and I lost 35 in 30 days. Whoa. And I remember going just over I35 here to this dock. And my heart rate was low 20s.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Because all I was doing was running coffee and I would. The broth can be super salty, sodium heavy. So I'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God. You're just starving yourself.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it was bad. And then I got a thyroid problem from that. And that dog, that doc was like, hey, you're gonna fail this physical. Just so you know. And I'm like, what do I gotta do? I'm going to Africa next week. And he's like, do some push ups. So I did push ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s. And he's like, okay, Wow. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy. That's.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I was hurt.

[Joe Rogan]

You're probably kind of dying. Yeah, that's nuts, dude.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then I was hurting. They would shoot me out on bang bang club. Like, just shoot your coverage and go, go back to bed. And then I ended up getting a nutritionist there and she helped me a little bit, but that was a quick shoot. But that's where I think I My body on that one. Wow. And then Koresh again lost weight for that.

[Joe Rogan]

That was great, by the way. Thanks. That whole caress. So crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know, man.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it like doing that movie? Cuz it's another real life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, that was. I was just prepping right there too. That was almost too long a prep. Here's me saying, I love prep. But I had six months to get into that head space, and it just. The last month I tried to pull out of the show.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Because I was just. This is. I was just. You're holding. Hoarding all this energy and you. I lost the weight learning to play guitar and sing, which was a comedy. I'm terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

He was terrible too, though.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah, he was. That literally helped me. I'd listen to Dave and I'd be like, wow, guys. Sucks.

[Joe Rogan]

He. How he got people to follow him with that terrible singing. If I was in that call, they go, yo, we got to reevaluate. This guy is not. Not Christ. He is not the leader.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He's actually kind of terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Should we leave?

[Joe Rogan]

Sucks. His music sucks. But it's just. What is it like getting in the head space of someone who's that depraved, too? And. And who has that kind of, like, sick control over people?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Why? Figure out the why. Yeah, I think so. Go to his childhood, which was terrible, of course. Like, you don't become a cult leader. Two great, healthy parents always giving you.

[Joe Rogan]

Hugs, siblings, and you decide to be a cult leader. No.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah. He memorized the Bible by 15, which is. That says enough right there.

[Joe Rogan]

That's intense.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But he was, like, tied to a radiator on his birthday. Like, abused pretty hard. And I almost bought his car. Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

I tried buying the trigger on his car. He had a 1968 Camaro. And a buddy of mine texted me and said, yo, David Kresh's car for sale. And he knows I'm a car head. And I'm like, are you? I love cars, especially old muscle cars. Yeah, I got a bunch of them. And I have a 69 Camaro. And I was thinking about. At that time, I didn't have any Camaros, but I was thinking about getting like 68 or 69 or 67. I like the 69s a little more. A little wide body. But then I found out it was Koresh's car. I was like, whoa, that'd be wild to drive to the Comedy Store. David Koresh's Mustang in Texas. Or he's David Crush's Camaro, rather. But Then I thought about it. I said, you know what? I don't want it. I don't want anything from that guy. I don't want that. I don't want. I don't want to hold his steering wheel. I don't want to sit in his seat. I don't want it. I don't want it. Also, what a piece of. That guy's a preacher. He's driving around a muscle car, like, for sure, right there and then. Terrible. What is that muscle car?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Ego. A little bit of an ego.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of ego.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, not that you can't enjoy. I love them. I think they're one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of, like, a piece of functional artwork.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

American fossil cars. I love them.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I'm that way with Moto. Motorcycles, too. And I got to set. We shot actually in Waco. Wanted nothing to do with us, so. Yeah, rightfully so. So we shot that in Santa Fe.

[Joe Rogan]

Like to change that.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

And Waco is a great town, by the way.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it's grown, like, enormously, too. But, yeah, his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it. I kicked tires on it, and they wanted to just. It was probably worth two grand. They wanted 15 or something. And it was just like, go yourself.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Honestly, like, you just said, what am I gonna do, Moto?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I thought it was. I was. I thought it was silly at first, and then after a while, be like, I can't do this.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I. When. Before we opened up the comedy mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One world Theater that was also owned by here. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No way.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the One world Theater. You know where it is? It's on B. Cave. Well, this is what's up. About the story. Ron White performed there once because they have concerts there. And Ron White did stand up, and we were talking about opening up a club, and he said, you should buy that place down on B. Cave. It's the beautiful theater. I think it's for sale. I played there once. It's amazing. I was like, all right, well, Ron White's the man. If he tells me, I'll go check it out. And I check it out, and I'm like, yeah, we could do this. Let's do it. And so signed the contracts, all that. And then I get a call from my friend Adam. He goes, hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult? I'm like, oh, no, there's a documentary. The documentary is called Holy Hell. And it's about a guy who is a gay porn star and a hypnotist that was a yoga instructor.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Checking everybody. Yep. So his yoga instructor in Hollywood and then the cult in Waco gets taken down. And then he is on the run now because now the cult awareness network starts going after all these cults after Waco. They're like, hey, you know, people's children are getting kidnapped essentially by these fucking maniacs. And. And you know, winds up being like, waco, we gotta stop these cults. And so he moves to Austin and changes his name and has a. The. You know, this is the 90s. You could get away with changing your name. Yeah, Nobody. No Internet. And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them. The documentary is bananas. And I see the documentary, I'm like, oh my God, I gotta get out of this.

[Taylor Kitsch]

This.

[Joe Rogan]

After I see the documentary, I'm like, I gotta get out of this deal. I gotta get. And fortunately there was a problem. Fortunately there was a problem because, you know, you got a bunch of cult members building a place. They're not gonna do it to code.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No. And so it was like his residence.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, there was a lot of that was wrong. A lot of wacky. They didn't want to pay for it. I'm like, let's just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So it cost me a little bit of money and I got out of it. And then we eventually got the ritz on. On 6th Street. And that's the perfect spot anyway. But it was the thing of being in that building, knowing what happened. I'm like, I can't handle this.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Different energy.

[Joe Rogan]

100, 200 people wasted their life with this asshole for 20 fucking years. And there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary like, I lost my life. My life is meaningless now. I thought I was going to be with them forever. Now I'm a dog walker. I'm like, oh my God. I know I can't carry that in this club. I can't feel it, you know, I'd.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Have to tear the building club.

[Joe Rogan]

I just thought it'd be silly, you know, building built by a cult. Perfect, we'll take it. But the reality is every cult winds up being the same thing. The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody. It's almost every one of them has the same profile.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And fear based, always, always, always fear based always.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody else is the enemy. Me, I'm the solution. The nutty thing about this guy though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing. And you had to earn it. And when you earned it, it was this very special ceremonious moment. And he would put his hands on their head and he would do something to them. And these people would feel God, they would experience God. And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psycho somatic, something where your brain triggers this energy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But.

[Joe Rogan]

But all these people that called him a fraud, that fucking hated him, I wasted my. They all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life. Still they're like, I gained a connection to God and to the universe. That to this day was the most profound and loving moment of my life. It's like, yeah, the guy was a total piece of shit, scam artist, con man, liar, everything was wrong. Yet he was still capable of doing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That thing to them, condition them over years.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he had them thinking about the moment that it was going to come one day. And then he would take it away from them. And then, and then one person would get it and they would all sit around and watch and they're like, when am I gonna get it? But when they got it, they would all be like, it's because we know that the brain produces psychedelic chemicals and I guess you can trick it, which is I think what a near death experience is. I think a near death experience, your body, your body's like it's over. Flood the gates. Yeah, and then, yeah, right, rolls through and then you, you know, you go down the tunnel and light and all the jazz and you meet dead people. Yeah, this is, I think this is possible with everybody. You just have to achieve the right state of mind. I know people in Kundalini Yoga, the people that are like heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls. Really had a buddy of mine who had done dmt.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he really done DMT a couple times so he knew what the experience was. And then he really got into Kundalini Yoga and he was doing it for like six months. And then.

[Taylor Kitsch]

What is Kundalini?

[Joe Rogan]

It's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work and there's a lot of like head bobbing. It's very strange, but it's. You achieve a DMT like state. He's like, you achieve a full on psychedelic experience doing Kundalini. I was like, whoa. And I've always thought about like trying it and practicing it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I'm like, yeah, I don't have the time.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm too busy. I Can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with. But. But it's. My point is that there is some little trigger in your brain that if you can trick your brain into snapping over to on it. Just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I believe that part.

[Joe Rogan]

This cult guy did it to those people.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

As much as they hated him, as much as they knew he was a fry. Everybody.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The crazy thing is, like, they didn't know that everybody was getting. And so, like, one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email, like, hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and me for like 10 years. And they're all like, I thought it was only me.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then it became crazy. Where everybody had a story. Yeah, everybody had a story. He would charge them money for these experiences, and then he'd fuck, of course.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

Hilarious, but terrible.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And so I didn't want that building. So, like, I didn't want Koresh's car.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Let me look at that contract again.

[Joe Rogan]

No. So when you were getting close and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yep, yep. And then I called my manager staff, and she's like. Like, give it a day. And then the Dowdle brothers, who wrote and directed Terrific guys. And I called John and I think one thing that set me free probably on month three, because I was really stuck on everything we've just said of, like, why am I playing some guy? That's pretty reprehensible in a lot of ways.

[Joe Rogan]

A real person.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Who did real damage to people.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But I was judging him, and that was, like, really a big block for me because I couldn't understand him more. And so once I started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just trying to understand and root him, then I was like, okay, I'm gonna fly now. Of like, this is his childhood. This is why he's doing this. And so it's your guys's job. Can judge away and do all this, but for me to play this guy, I can't bring that to him. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So that gotta be that piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gotta do it and try and root that.

[Joe Rogan]

When you got done with the role, was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, bang, bang, club me? I was hurting pretty bad after I didn't know my process very well. And, you know, Kevin Carter was just really, really troubled. And I think it was Mandrax, which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take. Oh, Boy, yeah. And he would have night terrors and all this. There's photos of him. Like they called it the bang bang because they had these police scanners and once they would. This is early 90s in South Africa and once they heard it on the scanner, it's like a bang bang. And they would be there a lot of times before the cops, like some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen and they would get hear it on the scanner and they'd go like Scooby Doo kind of shit. They'd get there before the cops a lot of time or the military. And they'd be in the middle of this, shooting it, photographing it. And you see pics of Kev that are just like him in like one shoe high, hiding behind like a barrel in the middle of this gunfight. Like they would get really into it. And then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart, you know, of just. He would see some pretty abysmal and just be like take it, you know, wear it. And it just hammered him. And so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over, get through it. But yeah, that was really tough coming out of him. Just because I didn't know myself enough or process be able to really kind.

[Joe Rogan]

Of became a part of him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yep. And then the weight and all that. And then with Dave. Yeah. I was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it. I always go on a motorcycle trip after and that sets me free. Helps me a lot. I'll write letters and just burn them. That helps a lot. They say when you're like, if I get therapy or something or it's like write a letter and literally watch it burn. And that is something like. That's a mind trick, I'm sure. Just like if there's trauma or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Figure out a way to let it go that way.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Ceremonial purging.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. So.

[Joe Rogan]

So that was. Bang Bang was harder than Koresh.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah. On me.

[Joe Rogan]

Because you would like not. You hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Exactly. And that was the first time I started having really bad nightmares in South Africa. And. And I just. That started with me a lot and then I was really happy. It was only a four week shoot.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you try that tranquilizer, whatever the it is, you know what it's like?

[Taylor Kitsch]

No. I've only smoked weed three times in my life.

[Joe Rogan]

Nothing else?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

Little booze.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Little booze.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

First time.

[Joe Rogan]

But just weed.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Wow. Savages with Oliver Stone.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So, yeah, it goes hard. He does.

[Joe Rogan]

I was surprised he still smokes weed.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I was in rehearsal and he asked me and I hadn't smoked weed ever before.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And I'm playing this guy, this obviously a seal, but that smokes weed, grows weed, sells weed, gets into the cartel.

[Joe Rogan]

And you smoked with Oliver Stone the first time?

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, my first time. He gave me some of his medicinal. And I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time. And I staying at the Shangri La in Santa Monica while we were filming. And my buddy bought. Brought over a bong, a water bong.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no. Oh, no. That's not how you do it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It.

[Joe Rogan]

If you can do it the first time, this is what I tell you to do. Just go like this. That's it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

Just a little hit. You got to dip your toes in there. Drug is also known as Quaaludes. Oh, interesting. That's what Quaaludes are. Wow's a brand name for it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

What does it say it's doing to your brain?

[Joe Rogan]

It's a muscle relaxer.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Insomnia. There you go.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you say that word? Methycoreal. Qualog. Methaqual. Qualone. Combination of drug known as Mandrax, owned primarily in Europe, containing 250 milligrams of methaqualone and 20 milligrams of diphen. Diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine in a single tablet.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Whoa.

[Joe Rogan]

Commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the mid-1980s due to widespread misuse, addiction and associated public health concerns. Yeah. You know, when a popular drug gets pulled, it's pretty bad.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. That was no joke.

[Joe Rogan]

So just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts. That was.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Because he was so up.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And I was that actor where it was like, I gotta be in trauma too then.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right, right, right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Definitely real. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it comes out. That's the. Yeah, it comes out in the role. Like it seems real. Like as nutty as Daniel Day Lewis's processes is. When that is that guy. And there will be blood. You believe it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I drink your milkshake.

[Joe Rogan]

He's there, man. He's dials. He's the best. But it's just that process has got to be soul crushing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because you lose you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You lose you.

[Joe Rogan]

And now you're some.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It got Willa. It got my daughter.

[Joe Rogan]

I need to find her.

[Taylor Kitsch]

From acclaimed director Paul Thomas Anderson.

[Joe Rogan]

You can save that girl.

[Taylor Kitsch]

On September 26, experience what is being called the best movie of the year.

[Joe Rogan]

This is the end of the line.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Not for you. Leonardo DiCaprio, Sha Pan, Benicio Del Toro, Tiana Taylor Chase Infinity.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's go.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Here I come. One battle after another. Only in theater September 26th experience it in IMAX. Rated R under 17.9 emitted without parrot.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. You had nightmares living in a mini hotel room in South Africa. Like lonely as. Yeah, it's no joke. That was no joke. But I. I've learned my process a lot more.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you have to refine it on your own? Did you get help?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process really helped me figure out like like my me because it's all self exploratory as well as is acting and. And then I. You're just way more conscious of it. Of like okay. Like even with relationships of like okay that's I. I can get quite short like be like true detective. I was oddly an through the whole thing and I had my best friend of 30 years with me helping me on that. That and I was drinking like a to blackout and that's not me. I don't drink much but I was just a mess and my buddy was. Is like played in the NHL. AHL was a fighter. Like he would murder me. Shitty with him, really shitty with it. And I would Poke him.

[Joe Rogan]

Booze, bro.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know this is your worst. I know man.

[Joe Rogan]

It's the worst for that. So many people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I would poke them in and we go to this shithole bar. It's called Sports Harbor. I don't even know if it's open anymore. But I would fuck around and I didn't have to find out. But I definitely was getting that. Really I was conscious of it and he would have to have a moment with me of like, hey, you said this last night.

[Joe Rogan]

Or do you think it was partly because you're trying to play detective and.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Detectives are kind of up in the closet. It just a mess.

[Joe Rogan]

So do you think that's what it was like?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, I do. Yeah. Cuz after I shed it or after it wrapped, I was with my sis right after. But I was fine. I didn't touch anything. But during I was no bueno. Wow. Even getting ready for this. It's. I play this director of Corrections in Texas. It's a true story about the longest hostage situation in. In the US in a prison prison. It's 11 day hostage negotiation and Freddie Carrasco is going to be played by Luna, Diego Luna, who's. I can't wait to see what he does with this. But I play the director of corrections. So we're negotiating for 11 days and I. And he's got to be quite hard on his in on the guys in his war room and he kind of comes in and he takes over the negotiations and he's never done a negotiation before. So he makes a mistake here or there and he. He fucking pays the piper psychologically for it because it doesn't end great. And. And so I'm starting to get into that mindset and when I'm with a buddy or something like that, I can be quite short. And you start to see it filtering in. I'm like, okay, Jim is settling in me me. Like I can start to feel it a little bit more. I get a little more reactionary.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so creepy. It's like you're getting haunted. You're kind of getting haunted by your characters. But that's. Dude, that's why you're so good. I think that's. There's something to that, man. Because you're believable, you know, Like I've seen you in a bunch of movies but it doesn't matter whatever the you're doing. I believe even though I know know. Oh, that's Taylor Kitsch.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I've seen him in Lone Survivor. I've seen him in this. I've seen him in that. When you're in that, the same as the. The Daniel Day Lewis thing. That's. He's that guy. He's that guy. And even though you know who he is, that's how good he is, that he's still that guy. Even though you know who the that is.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, I know.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like the trick works that monologue.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Daniel Day has on the porch where he's like, I don't. To his brother. I think it is where he goes, I don't like people. People. Yeah. Oh, all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He is the best to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Such a complicated character he played too.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

It was so much to it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He's. He's got something coming out soon too. His son, I think, directed it, which is going to be a banger. I. I think he plays a soldier that comes back or.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I saw a trailer.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's right. I saw a trailer recently.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That thing of carrying a guy around like that, whether it's the detective or Koresh or the bang Bang guy, it's like, that's got to be exhausting.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because you're like real light in real life. You're friendly and like, hey, what's up? How you doing? I was. Because I didn't know. They know what you're gonna be like. Everybody's different. You know.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I heard horror stories of you.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you really?

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, no, no.

[Joe Rogan]

I try to be nice, but, you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Know, I was just with Sheridan the other day.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, Taylor, I love that guy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, man. Beauty. And of course Pete and every car, everyone's like, you're gonna have a blast.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no, for sure. Everybody told me that about you too.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But you know, you don't know.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Until you meet someone. But that. I'm glad I didn't meet you while you're on folded Detective in full character, you know, because full character is crazy. You're kind of haunted.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. You gotta live it. You gotta live it. I think. I mean, you look at anybody that's great at anything you have to. That it's amount. It's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You have to be truly all in all the time.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I think it's that like the fear of failure. And also I don't want to fucking watch it and be like, oh, catch you didn't.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That would kill me.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That would fucking kill me.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. The. The Watching a guy phone it in is the worst feeling as a consumer of the show. Like a, A, you know, passenger on the ride watching someone phone it in. Like, no, dude, do another take.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, that's the one they keep. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are you doing? You going through a divorce?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What's going on?

[Taylor Kitsch]

They're out there, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Can't lock in. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I've worked with some pretty huge names that have apologized.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

After a film or at the premiere or something that were like, hey, I'm. I, I. I'm sorry, man. I just wasn't there. That's like, in my head, I'm like, no, I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, I had Charlie Sheen on yesterday.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, no way.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And he was talking about his time doing anger management, about he was still really up and just doing way too many drugs and he was trying to be locked in, but he was. And he just didn't do it. And then he wanted. Didn't want to do it anymore. So he was miserable while he was there. And he's all up and. And he's, like, apologizing to everybody now. I was like, I am so.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a sweetheart of a guy. Like, really nice guy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He's sober.

[Joe Rogan]

Almost eight years.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

But, you know, you can see the itch behind his eyes.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

You know, that's a struggle that sober is a struggle sober. Because that guy went through it for so many years.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The stories that he was telling about, like, literally how 1am to 7am would go by like that. And then all of a sudden, someone was pounding on his door. It's time to go to work. He's like, I am high as on crack. He goes, and so I have to lie in bed. So he'd lie in bed. I try to close my eyes. He goes, I'm not taking a nap. He go, I'm cracked out of my mind. My whole body's vibrating. And he goes, and then I took a ice cube and I stuck it up my ass.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Get out.

[Joe Rogan]

And the ice cube woke him up and got him back. Like, he was literally falling asleep on the set. And he said, give me a couple minutes. And he shoved an ice cube up his ass.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That movie writes itself, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy went, how do you figure that out? Out.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You know, you're just going to the fridge.

[Joe Rogan]

I gotta wake up. He's literally falling asleep. How do I wake up? Shove an ice cube up my ass.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, yes, it works.

[Joe Rogan]

What were the other choices? Stick a fork in an electric socket? How did you get to an ice cube up your.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

But he was going that hard and, you know, it just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He's so lucky he didn't die. So were the uppers and downers and everything. The crack.

[Joe Rogan]

Crack. Well, people that he. The girl he smoked crack with, the first time he ever smoked crack with eventually overdosed.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Ah.

[Joe Rogan]

He told a story about the first time he smoked quack. This girl who was a crackhead, she gave him a blow job while he took his first hit of crack. He said, to this day, I can't top that experience. He goes, to this day. He goes. I probably shouldn't say that. He goes, yeah, to this day, this is the greatest moment of my life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Wow. Holy shit. Like, oh, my God. God. Isn't there a doc on him that just came out?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah. He wrote a book and he did it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, he did?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's doing movies again, is he? Yes, he's excited to be working again. He's kind of a little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again, but. Well, yeah, I mean, you know. Yeah, he got a lot of tough hire. Yeah. A lot of money, a lot of.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Insurance on the studio. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But now he's sober for eight years, so.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Good for him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Holy. What is he, like, 60 now?

[Joe Rogan]

He's in his 60s. He actually looks good.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Does he?

[Joe Rogan]

So for a long time, he looked terrible. And I said to him, I go, do you look better than I've seen you? I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life. It was the first time I ever met him, but it was. He looked good. He looked healthy. Look remarkable for a guy that's gone through abused 20 years of redlining the machine, just 20 years of crack.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I'm gonna watch that doc.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's. The doc is great. It's really entertaining, too. It's really shot. It's really all shot. Yeah. Really well edited.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And, I mean, that whole family is pretty epic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Martin, come on. Yeah, yeah. No, we talked about Apocalypse now, too. Oh, it's really crazy because he was on the set when he was 8 years old. 8 or 10. 10. 10. 10 years old. So he's 10 years old in the Philippines on the set that was now while it's being filmed. Yeah. Helicopters, Robert Duvall, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, he was there 10.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

And your dad's Martin Sheen.

[Taylor Kitsch]

The Philippines back then, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, I love that movie so much. I wear this watch. This is the Willard. This is a. This is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore in Apocalypse Now. Yeah, it's my favorite watch.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because of that.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because. Well, it's a nice watch. It's a Seiko. But, like, they. All the Vietnam soldiers all got Seikos because they were, like, super durable and reliable. Look at that. That's him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't get it in there, but. Oh, my God. On the set of apocalypse now in 1979. That is crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, how old was Martin Sheen then?

[Joe Rogan]

Looks pretty young.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I mean, what a legend, though.

[Joe Rogan]

He seemed, like, in the movie, he was in his early 30s, right?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, crazy, crazy, crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I mean, and you wonder why?

[Joe Rogan]

And then 10 years later, literally 10 years later, he's doing Blitz Tune, which is the next, like, epic war movie. Oliver Stones directing Willam Defoe. Who's the other guy? The other guy, Tom.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Who is it? Yes, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy ruled in that movie.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He did.

[Joe Rogan]

He seems so scary.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Willem's an amazing guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Amazing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That guy's. I love that guy in everything. He was great in John Wick. He's great in everything.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He really is.

[Joe Rogan]

It's great in everything.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Willem Dafoe's the fucking man.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But, like, to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the Apocalypse now, and then 10 years later, you're in Platoon and Oliver north is directing you and your narration. Oh, excuse me, Oliver. Oliver North. That's hilarious. Oliver Stone is directing you, and you're doing the narration. Like, the whole thing is nuts. 10 years. How do you adjust to that?

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, you don't. Well, that's how you adjust. One word. Crap.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it took a while.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That was his drug of choice.

[Joe Rogan]

Coke. When that girl blow him. When the girl gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack. It was crack. From then on out, it's like, I get it now.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's a hard sell. Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just crazy that it's crazy that he's alive.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about, I was like, no one could understand what you went through, because no one has ever done that. No one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old and been in Platoon and you're the toast of the town, and you're a baby.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, you're just getting out of high school, you know, like, what a baby? And then the world's your oyster. You're doing blow every night, and it's chaos. Just nuts. You're off the rails. And every time you fail, you succeed. Better. Like every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side. There's no consequences. Career wise.

[Taylor Kitsch]

God. God.

[Joe Rogan]

And he just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

What was going on? The baseball movie. God, I love.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he was awesome in that.

[Taylor Kitsch]

The best.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I grew up watching that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, dude, that guy. That guy's been in some great movies. He's been some great movies. But to be him and to, you know, to. No, there's no blueprint for that kind.

[Taylor Kitsch]

What was his bottom out? Did he tell you?

[Joe Rogan]

He kind of like there was a bunch of bottoms out.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Out. Yeah. Losing and then eventually Two and a Half Men or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it was that and it was his behavior afterwards. And then.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, he did.

[Joe Rogan]

He very apologized to Chuck Lorry. He says, we've talked, I've apologized, we're friends now. Like, thank God. Like, because.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Does he live in la, Charlie. I wonder.

[Joe Rogan]

Remember? Did he say. I don't think he said. Yeah, I don't think I asked him. I don't know if he's still there. But he's been completely sober for eight years.

[Taylor Kitsch]

For him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Good for him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Holy.

[Joe Rogan]

Like if he can do it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

No, that guy could do it. And he seems. Together, both of them. Behringer was in that too. That's right. That's crazy that they. That completely different roles. Behringer and Platoon was so scary.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Scared the out of me.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Damn, I love that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's just amazing that that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of Apocalypse now to ten years later starring.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I think Apocalypse was like a two year shoot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we were talking about it yesterday.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought it was even more than that. I think the ent.

[Taylor Kitsch]

They just kept asking for money forever.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Francis Ford Copeland, man. Come on. He nailed it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He.

[Joe Rogan]

To this day I will watch that movie every now and then and just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Sit there and go back then too. To make a movie like that. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

In 79. Oh my God, man. That movie was epic. And it was like one of the first like realistic war movies.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Then you got Platoon, like you said.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Epic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy that he's, you know, he experienced both of them. One as a child watching his dad. Dad. And one as a star. And all within the span of a decade.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is like. And 2015 was yesterday, man.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. That's the most formative years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

10.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

What were you doing?

[Joe Rogan]

I wasn't in the Philippines. That was the other thing. He was like, we. I didn't know that that world existed. He goes like, I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach. You know, everybody's like, happy and wealthy. And his. His dad's a movie star. That also sudden he's in the Philippines and he's like in Francis for Copa. Had all these sketchy people on set all the time. Like, he was artist. He's like, everybody come on and hang out. There's all these weird people around.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And three year shoot. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

In the jungle.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Literally using helicopters from the army. And he was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back because they. There's rebels and there was a. Yeah, they had to borrow the helicopters.

[Taylor Kitsch]

There's another movie.

[Joe Rogan]

They had the whole scene rigged. They had the. The river was rigged with explosives. They're ready to film the scene. And they were like, no, we need our helicopters back.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Holy, man.

[Joe Rogan]

We need to go kill some people.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Old school movie making, though.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, man. I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Damn. I mean, I've got to. I had dinner with Gibson one night. Night. Mel Gibson. And I've worked with what's his. Brendan Gleon. So maybe Braveheart. That was a big one for me.

[Joe Rogan]

That was a big one.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Boy, that was. I mean, it made everybody want a sword fight after something up. Totally get out of that movie.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly. God, that one was big. What a movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Freedom at the end.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I mean, come on. Or when they. When the. When he. The king pulls his h. He pulls the. The helmet off the king and he sees he's fighting for the other side. And then you cut to Gibson, it's those blue eyes that are trying. He's trying to register that it's the king. His king. And that moment for me was just like, oh, my God. Yeah. Just beautiful. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Mel Gibson can make a.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He really can. He really can.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I watched again recently? Apocalypto.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Amazing. Same, by the way.

[Joe Rogan]

Not. It's a blockbuster movie that. Where no one speaks English.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And no big movie stars.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No big movie stars. No one speaks English. It's amazing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It is.

[Joe Rogan]

And he used, like, real people that lived there.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Good for him, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Good for him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

What a swing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's a fascinating guy. Like, his brain is like. He's just rattling all over the place all the time. First time he's on the podcast, he had A pen. And he couldn't stop clicking it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

Like the entire time. Click, click, click, click, click, click. You crazy person. Put the pen down.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, man. That was a cool dinner, though. He told me some stories of Braveheart, of just riding the horse to all these cameras. Like ripping the horse to one camera, seeing the shot going to the next, seeing the shot going in, doing the speech, going, looking to playback.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just like. And then he's like falling asleep standing up. He was so tired. Like, that's like epic stuff. And talk about. About realism. Like those fights. Oh, no. Still holds up. Yeah. That soundtrack. Come on.

[Joe Rogan]

That was an incredible movie.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, my dad played the bagpipes. He played actually in the World Championships in 95 in Scotland. Really? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

From Canada.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Went to Scotland.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then he. So the pipes, to me, like, I remember he was an alcoholic and not a lot. He wasn't around a lot and he. I remember some of my best memories was like, you know the fucking sound of the pipes when you're putting air in. It's the worst sound in the world. It's like a rabbit, like getting bludgeoned. And we would be at Christmas, all my cousins, his side of the family, and he would walk downstairs and you could hear this. These fucking pipes getting air put in. And you could tell he had a few. And he was. He would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes. And everyone's just like, full stop and just beautiful. And he'd play in. In Barbados. He worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the. The pavers, the golf pass. And he would play at funerals. And when.

[Joe Rogan]

How did he do in the world Championships?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I don't know. That's a good question. But it's a great story. So primeval. I was fly fishing in the Madison at just West Yellowstone. I had four days off, so I went home to a Bozeman. Was fly fishing only my favorite spot on the. In West Yellowstone. My bro calls me and he's. And I'm like, I just caught like a 20 inch rainbow or something. And I'm ripping into my brother being like this. I'm killing it. The rod's on fire right now. And he's like. So my dad raced cars as well. And his race car name, or his. We called him Gooey growing up. And he's like, Gooey's got 48 hours to live. And I was like, ah, all right. Literally just verbatim like that. Like, I saw him the last 19 years. I saw him twice, and one time was in Montana, and he had early onset dementia, and my brother drove him down. Great stories there. But. So I drive. I take my adventure van, drive up to Kelowna, my hometown, and I've got this big beard from Primeval. And I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years. And then I was still close with the oldest, and get to the hospital, and he's. I turn his wheelchair around, and I'm like, hey, hey, goofy. And he's like, who the are you? Whoa. Yeah. And he's on, like, oxygen. And I'm like, I'm your youngest son. And he's like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm just here to say hi and hang out for a couple days. And he was, like, on point. Like, his brain was going. And. And it was a little like, I hadn't seen my one bro forever.

[Joe Rogan]

So how long had it been since you'd seen him before that?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Years. A couple years? Yeah. Probably two years.

[Joe Rogan]

And is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard?

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, the beard. It was the beard. And I was limping with that fucking toe. And so we go up to his room. This is a Friday at noonish. And he's great, though, like. So we had this young doctor, he's like 40, great guy. I go and sit down with him. He's like. I'm like, dude, he's dialed, like, what do you mean he's gonna die? Like, he's on point, and he's like, this is what happens sometimes when somebody like this, he doesn't know he's dying, but he is once, like, all three of us brothers, all three of his sons were there. And it's like a high and everything. He's just dialed into it all and just very present because everybody's there. Yeah. And he's like. The doc is like, man, I have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him. And I'm like, in 25 years. And so we were all there, and I had my assistant back in Santa Fe, and I was like, hey, my dad played for Colona Pipe band. And I was like, call her. I'm like, you got to help me here. Get a piper her and to come play for him at the hospital. And she's like, on it. And she was great. And the next. The next or Friday night, I'm like, gooey, what do you want for breakfast? And he's like, give me something I shouldn't have. Give me like a Costco muffin and. And a stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee. And so of course, I go overboard and bring him this ridiculous. The big chocolate chip muffin and. And the coffee in the next morning. But he had gone from, like, dialed to. He's hurting. And so we got this piper to come. We fucking. We're not allowed to do this. We bring him out in the courtyard and. And the piper comes and he's asleep, and she's like, what do you. What do you want me to play? Like, they know of my dad, that he had played for the Kelowna Pipe Band, and. And I'm like, I don't know many songs, and I just. Obviously. Amazing Grace and stuff like that. And so she just rips it. And he wakes up and we're all buckled emotionally, right? Because this whole. The pipes to us is just like, that's our father. That's like our only memory. One of our only memories for him. So she plays two songs, and he's falling asleep again. And he wakes up and he's. And I'm like, gooey, you got one more song. Song. And he's like, okay. He was a mama's boy. Loved his mom and. And she was amazing. And he's like, play one for my mother. So I think at that point he knew he was about to go see her. And. Yeah. So we have all this on video and. And his brother was there and his wife and his best friend growing up. And so we. The nurse comes out after the pipe. They're not obviously. The whole hospital can hear this. And so we're obviously got caught. And she's like, bring him up now. And so we're like, yes, yes, ma'. Am. So we have him in his bed. And you know those, like, wheelchair ramps? It's like a hard 90 degree. He's out. He's sleeping. And my middle. I'm the youngest of three boys. My middle brother. Bros big. And then my other bros, like six. Two. Big boy, too. And we're. We got him. And we're stuck in that turn. So now it's like Weekend at Bernie's. And this is like a pain movie where it's like, he's. I'm like, hey, Gooey's stuck, boys. He's stuck. We can't get over this corner because the bed's too long and we're dying. Like, we needed a laugh. And so I look down and Gooey's arm is like, fucking crooked. Jammed in that bar.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. So I'm like, oh, whoa. Whoa. Back up a bit. So we back. Loosen it up. And it's like, it's not broken. But we. He didn't feel any of this shit. So we're, like, crying, laughing, because it's like a weekend at fucking Bernie's. It's our dark humor, man. You gotta laugh in those moments.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And yeah. Because we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier. Get him to the room, and he's in and out sleeping. And the next day, on Father's Day, I had. I had to drive back to Bozeman. And we have dark humor. And so everyone's in the. In the room. And I'm like, all right. Right. Get the. Out of this room. Everybody. Like. Like a joke. But the nurses are like, oh, my God, what happened? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. It's a joke. I just want 10 minutes with him. And then I gotta go. I gotta go back to work, but I'm gonna say goodbye. And so they leave, and he's, like, kind of in and out of consciousness, and he would wake up and look right through you, like he's trying to be with you or present or. I don't know. That's kind of how I took it. It. And he's fighting consciousness, I guess. And small little side note, I was driving, and the shaman who was helping me for Primeval, he texted me once I got into Canada, and he was like, hey, I had a dream. You gotta call me. And I'm like, I don't know if I believe this stuff, but I'll call you. And so I call him, and he's like, hey, something's up. And I'm like, I've told three people that my dad's going. And he's like, I had a dream that you're about to lose someone. I don't know if they're close to you. And I hate calling. This is a crazy call, but I'm gonna listen to this. And I'm like, man, I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad. He goes, okay. That's what it is. Yeah. And how weird is that? That. Yeah. What is that? I know. I don't know what that is. I'm still. And he's like, how. Tell me about your dad. What. What kind of guy was he? I'm like, not very present. He drank a lot and, you know, some regrets, of course, and this and that. And he goes, okay, I'm going to set up an altar and pray for him. And this is what I think is going to happen. He's not going to cross over. Over very easily because of the life he's lived. And so when I'm one on one with my dad, I started the conversation. I'm like, gooey. It's me and out. And he had soft hands. That's one thing I remember. So I grabbed his hand. And our humor. I'm like, yeah, these are a little soft. Gooey. Like, maybe you should have worked harder. Like, no calluses.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, nothing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just, you know, just trying to. And then I went into, like, the nonprofit, and I'm going to do this, and I'm going to try and give back and this and that. And I promised him and. And during that conversation, he would try and, like, be conscious. And he was fighting to be there. Present.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But he was, I think, gone.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then two hours I left. And then on the way home, my bro called and he had passed on Father's Day. And then. Then I was back to work on Tuesday, fucking riding banana bread, my horse. Yeah. With, like, Shea Wiggum, who's an amazing actor. He played Jim Bridger in that. But, yeah, Pete was great with me on that.

[Joe Rogan]

Did that help you, like, hold a feeling of loss for your. Your character?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I think it. I mean, how crazy. Art Simulating life and vice versa. I'm playing a guy mourning, and then all of a sudden, like, my father, who I didn't really have died, but it's still your dad, you know, And. And Pete was like, hey, this. You know, do you want to ride banana bread into this, into this shot or walk them or. And I'm like, I'll ride him in. And I was doing a scene with Shea Wiggum, and it was beautiful because I was upset that some knew that it's my. My news to tell, you know, but some had already knew the crew. So I was a little rattled at that when I got to set because everyone was very fragile with me, which I understand.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But I was like, whoever told you guys, it's not your story to tell, it's mine if I want to share it with the crew or whoever. But. So I was a little upset on set, but then a lot. It was so beautiful, man, because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like, man, my father was this guy to me, this guy. But, you know, I just. I feel you. And they would share all their father stories. So it was a beautiful experience. And Pete was great, and Betty Gilpin was amazing. And that scene, I just buckled, like, walked away from the Fort Bridger and I just was pretty emotional and Pete was a little like, amazing. And then we shot the scene, he's like, go home. And then I got to my trailer and literally to the minute of when I went down, that was the minute he got cremated. Wow. Yeah. And then. But I do think it. It was really cathartic to be playing that guy. And then I had a beautiful sweat after and I mourned him the right way, you know, it did knock me though, for like, I'd say six months after. I was like, what am I doing? Am I doing everything or enough? Am I living my life enough? Because even if he's not in your life, you're still like. To witness that is. It was heavy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But I had mourn him. Right. And you know, I'm in a good spot now, but it was an interesting thing of. You just take stock, I guess. I've never lost somebody close to me, me especially in that way. So, yeah, it was just a. A blessing to be still on set working and doing that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Sometimes you just need to appreciate people and sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others. Sometimes it's just like you just get too used to people. You get. You used to them being around. You take them for granted and then if they're gone, you just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's, you know what, Joe? That's what I was fucking literally saying. He's just gone.

[Joe Rogan]

When I was just like that, lived in New York at a best friend that was a drug addict and he was a crack addict at one point in time. And then later he started getting into harder stuff like opiates and. Yeah, and he died of an overdose. And I moved to LA in 94. But, you know, we stayed friends, we hung out. He would come out to visit me, I'd go to visit him. But he was always fucked up. He was always a mess. Came to my house once, detoxed. I didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to la, but he came to LA and he was just so sick. He just laid in bed for four or five days. Brutal. And then, you know, a couple days later he had to go back to New York, but he died of an overdose. And another buddy of mine that I'm good friends with called me up that we were. We were all tight together and called me up and it just never made sense. I was like, how is he not here? Yeah, how has he gone on? Like, it just. It just me up where I knew he was gonna die. I knew it was gonna happen, but I couldn't believe it happened. And then, you know, you got to go back to work.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Back to life, you know, just. And you feel so. Like a piece of you missing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like the world doesn't make sense.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly.

[Joe Rogan]

Person isn't in the world anymore. It's so hard to imagine until it actually happens. So abstract almost.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And like you said, even if, like I had. I had enough time to understand, he was going. Right. But when they're gone, it's just totally different.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then you just take stock and you're like, okay. I go, am I doing enough? Am I. Whatever it is, just tell people you appreciate them sometimes. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's. Sometimes that's all.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And forgave them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, I didn't hold. I wasn't that son. That was like, fuck, where were you? Why didn't you do this for me? Blah, blah, blah. I was.

[Joe Rogan]

He is who he is.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yep. And you learn that as you get older.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. People are who they are. And some people also, they grew up with monsters. That's the other problem. If you try to pretend that, you know, your parents should have their together because you have your together and they were your parents. No. Who raised them? They were raised by people living in the depression.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You know what I mean?

[Joe Rogan]

They were raised by animals.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

We've only been. Been truly civilized.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly.

[Joe Rogan]

Humans have only been truly civilized for the last few decades.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly.

[Joe Rogan]

I think most of history is just horrific barbarism. It's just slaughter and crime repeat and repeat over and over and over again. Until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And it doesn't fix it.

[Joe Rogan]

It fixes it a little. It makes it a little better. But still, even today day, you know.

[Taylor Kitsch]

There'S but the pipes. So every time I hear the pipes, I'm like, ah, it gets you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, I'd imagine.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Now I do want to go to Scotland.

[Joe Rogan]

Scotland's beautiful.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I haven't.

[Joe Rogan]

I've been there a few times. Love it. Yeah, I love it. People are very cool and it's not overcrowded. And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in la.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a good break to see rain everywhere where the, like, good luck starting to fly. Fire out there.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah. Right. You know, and to go into the Highlands and maybe take a motorcycle trip or. I do want to go and watch those world championships. Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, the Highlands.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So the guy I hired a three pipers for his funeral.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I pull in. I got this on video. And I pull into the parking lot, a little church in the middle of my town. And they're doing the. Putting the air in the bag. And I was like, this time it crushed me. Me. And I took a video from my truck, and I went out, introduced myself. And he's like, you're not gonna believe this. And I'm like, he's older guy, and he's like, I played next to your father at the world championships.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Wow. Like, just randomly, this is the guy playing the funeral. Wow. And he was amazing. And he stayed a while, and then it was like this little church. You go into this little gymnasium kind of spot. And he stayed and played in the. In the back. And some of my. That I didn't know, but some of his. My dad's favorite songs, so I have those on video too. But it was just beautiful. Wow. Yeah. And it brought all three boys back together, you know, now we're on good terms. It's been super cathartic. I was the only one to speak at the funeral, and I'm in the pew, and it's his sister, who I hadn't seen in a decade, and my two brothers and their kids, and my oldest is just a puddle. He's just. He's wearing sunglasses and just a mess. And the priest was actually quite great. He was funny, and. And then my other brother was in front of me, and he was a puddle. And he doesn't like speaking. And I don't either as me. I. I get a little nervous or whatnot. I'm always good to. If I'm in character or hiding behind something. But the priest was like, okay, now's the time to say something. And the whole church is just like. And I look at Damon, my other brother, Brody, and Damon looks back at me. Priest looks at me, he's like, now's the time.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, so you just had a. Decide it was you?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And then my Auntie Lee just squeezed my hand. I'm like. I'm saying something, aren't I? She's like. She's like, yes, you are. So I get up and I just said, you know, if there's any light to. To this whole situation, it's that all three us of us brothers are. Are back on great terms now.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's great.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it's great. Great.

[Joe Rogan]

That's cool.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah. And then right.

[Joe Rogan]

Right back to primeval.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, right back to primeval. Go get on banana bread. Take it out on those, man. Yeah. What a trip. What a trip. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That is a. That's a. A crazy experience, man. When you were doing the caresh thing, like, what was the thing that you up the most about playing him, about even preparing to play him, Trying to.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Root him emotionally to those circumstances that were so foreign. Like the emotional beats of like. I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand how someone could do what he did. And then he was very woe as me. Like, he played the victim incredibly manipulatively well. And I would always say he's like a great coach in. And he would. A great coach would be like, with you, he could train you and push certain buttons, but then he'll do something totally different with someone else and incredibly manipulative. So I think just trying to root that and understand, like, I. I don't think I'll ever understand some of the actions obviously to that level, like how someone can do that. But it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma. Like, that part of it. I did understand. And memorizing the Bible is a defense mechanism because when he's with. There was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him. And if you and I listened to child protective service calls, obviously all the Nesner calls, which was the played by Michael Shannon, who's amazing. And. And every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point or had something or had a level up on him, he would go right into Bible speak, which nobody could keep up with him on. So he would gain that upper hand. And I would just go into a dialogue about a dragon with one eye is about to come and show its face and bare its teeth and take the children, like, what the fuck do you say to that? You know, if you're on the call.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And you're trying to have a rational conversation of like, let the children out.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Taylor Kitsch]

We want these kids out. And he goes, right. And he just goes into this Bible speak. You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And that was. He did this with child protective services too, too. On those calls, he would just go, right. And that was such an anchor to him. Because nobody could play a card like that. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Because as soon as you say words from the Bible, you're right. You have to be right. And he's literally quoting the Bible.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you're going to argue with me. You're arguing with the Bible.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's trump card.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, truly.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And he would go to like Oxford and have debates with Theologians in the classes. And that's how he recruited a lot of people that he would win these debates and they would come and join. Come to Texas. Like, really. Like, he would write these letters to people and send tapes to Australia and get them to come. Wow. Yeah. Like, this was incredibly smart guy like that you have to give to him.

[Joe Rogan]

That isn't it so, so up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way.

[Taylor Kitsch]

All just fear. I mean, even the way, like, he's talking about God and the end of days and how he needs to bear. I think around 22 children that are going to go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things. He had the answers to aliens.

[Joe Rogan]

What was that answer?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I can't remember. But people I do want to know. To your point, though, it's like he ended up shooting himself in the head. Right? Which ironically, you don't go to heaven if you do that. Which is. But also, like, he does all this and I don't know, just that was a big thing for like, Paul Sparks and I, who played my right hand man of like, when we shot that death scene. Of like, man, like, I do wish, to your point, he was still alive and we could learn. Learn. You know, all these guys, they end this like they drink the Kool Aid in the bed or the like. It's such a fascinating perspective that I do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this than just him shooting himself in the head and burning a Burning in the house.

[Joe Rogan]

What you could learn. What you could learn, like, especially after the event, like the raid on the compound and everything. Like, what?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

All the people are dead. Like, how. What could you learn from that guy? Then he's gonna be so up.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I mean, nine people survived that. One of the survivors, Thibodeau, was there with us, his drummer.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Every day. Whoa. And. Yeah. And what did he say?

[Joe Rogan]

He was like.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Wow. So he. I know. Wow. And this didn't come out until our last week of shooting because I got along incredibly well with him. And he did give us. He did write a great book and give me insight to moments that I asked to be in the show. But I mean, he was going to, I don't know, to North Dakota or the Dakotas to. Someone had blueprints for an alien warship and he was going to see these blueprints. And we're Just in between takes. We're in between takes, sitting in our set chairs and me and Paul Sparks, and we're like, hey, what are you doing after this? After we wrap? And he went on and told us he was going to look at blueprints to this worship. And we're like, okay, copy that. Yeah. So those are the type of guys, though, that wind up in cult.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Sweet, man. Like, very helpful. Was great to us and was very open, but, I mean, a lot of majority of people are followers. Right? So.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that way.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Well. Right. Just truly.

[Joe Rogan]

That's just how it goes.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but, yeah, your. Your brain does not let you navigate through life very well. And you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what to do, even if it's completely illogical.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And those people wound up becoming followers.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I think it was the new light. He called it the new light. This is a while ago, but I think it was a new light. He. Dave woke up and he got all. Everyone together, and he's like, I just had. Had a word with God, and it's the new light something, and it's where I'm gonna. I'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women. And this guy named Norm, I think he was Australian or. Anyways, this guy was like that I'm out and like, 20, 30 people left, but a lot stayed.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot stayed.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You're always going to get people that stay, and then they think that if they stay, he'll like them even more now.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from Dave now. I'm going to be tighter. I'm staying that.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm team Koresh. You can.

[Taylor Kitsch]

My wife bro Jersey on nuts. It is, man. It is.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a weird, weird thing that people have, like, encoded in us to look for a leader.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Very strange.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I think it's just from tribal DNA. That's what I. Yeah, that's a good point.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I never thought about that.

[Joe Rogan]

If when we were groups of like, 150 people, the only way we could survive, you got to listen to the wisest, most experienced person, and that's the tribal leader. That's how it always was. It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Guys, guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Guy who knows what you're supposed to eat. Not eat and where the danger is, and that guy's gonna help you keep you alive. And we always have that in everything. We have it in businesses we have. There's always, like, us, one top monkey.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

At the top of the carrot.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it's carrot.

[Joe Rogan]

It's weird, but you see it in chimpanzees, too, man. It's crazy. It's a primate behavior. They all. They'll. All those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They have one guy who's the top chimp.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's running. It's weird, man. It's like. It's encoded in us. And so for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that and go, I am the leader. You're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you. I was lost without you. You are found now. Yeah, my son. You are found. And also, like, that guy's so confident.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not confident.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. He did say tanks were coming, and they're here. So literally, that was a big moment. That was a big moment. Moment. Wow. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That must have been for seven seals.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He was rewriting the seven seals. His final days. Oh, boy. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole raid on the compound thing is nuts.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It is like, when you see the.

[Joe Rogan]

Fire coming out of the tanks, you're.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, what did you guys do? Yeah. There's a guy that, ironically, was Dick de Guerin, his lawyer, and he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this. So I'm like, full stop. We're going to hear Dick de Guerin speak.

[Joe Rogan]

He's speaking about waco.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer. Wow. And he did. And I went and introduced myself, and there's a crazy story. It was Dave's mom who called him and was like, this is what's happening. Would you go help? Blah, blah. He was on a fishing trip, I think, and he's like, yeah, I'm gonna go. So he showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set, and he's like, I'm that guy's lawyer in that house. You need to take me over there. FBI puts him in a tank, and he goes to the front door in a tank, and the door has this big piano. I've tried getting this in the sh. In the show, and we couldn't, but. So there's a big piano at the front door blockade. Dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows. All this kind of stuff. Stuff. This is deep into the 51 day standoff. And Dave's right hand man and played by Paul Sparks and another. His lawyer, Harvard grad, I think, answer the door. And Dick's like, oh, I see the bullet holes in the ceiling. Couple bodies that the ATF weren't. Didn't allow you to take out. You got a case here. But where's Dave? And they show him the house and all this kind of stuff. And so they're back in the foyer and the piano is against the wall. And they're talking and he's like, okay, I don't. I want to help, but I don't know where Dave is. And he's leaving and he's like, you got a case? And the right hand man just goes, dave was in the fucking piano listening to this whole thing.

[Joe Rogan]

What a psycho.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And so he got back in the tank and Dave got briefed of their walk through there. And anyways, Dick De Geeran was his lawyer on that. What a fucking story, though.

[Joe Rogan]

How crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I wanted to be in that piano and shoot that. Yeah, that would have been unbelievable.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that would have been an important part.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. Know. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

An important part of the story.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It really is.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how nuts he was.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Hid in the piano.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So scared to get shot or didn't trust anything. But those guys, apparently in that. In that tank, they were like ripping Dick Degurin and like spitting on them and doing this kind of. Because they're like, you do know they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well. And you're gonna go fucking be this guy's lawyer. Fuck you. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Joe Rogan]

So, but the thing, like, what started off the feud, I don't even remember, like, who. How did bullets wind up flying?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, so it was Dave had. He was selling, like, homemade bulletproof vests and was like, had these. I know. And the ATF were kind of spiraling out, like their funding was about. They were about to get defunded and they needed a win. They needed it. What was it? The Ridge Ruby. Yeah, there you go. So they dropped the ball huge on Ruby Ridge. Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Say that again.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. So. Which is at the very beginning of Waco. And they needed a win here. Find a cult leader into weapons, selling ammunition, I think, and bulletproof vests and this kind of stuff. And this guy's got these kids and all this is perfect. And that started it of just like, we're gonna go get this guy. And there's a famous tape that we put in the show too, where Dave was like, you know, why didn't you just like, he did this run all the time and was kind of just out and about working on the house, running around. He had a go kart track around the. The compound. And he's like, why wouldn't you just arrest me when I'm on a run, when I'm on this or that? But they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again. So they made this a spectacle. And then it turned into what you saw like they were. They wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out. Out. That's a fact. And then they're playing that music of animals being like mutilated into the compound. Yeah. Then they were flying the ATF flag. I asked for that to be put in, but we didn't put it in. But they were flying the ATF flag while it was burning down. Wow. Yeah. It's legit. Wow. Crazy, man. Wow. They needed a win. Win. Yeah. And then.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so dark.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know, I know. Picture I35 right here. Tanks and all these armored trucks, everything going down I35. It's incredible. You know, and they're just sitting right in front of. Of the house and 51 days is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That is crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Wow. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just hard to believe that they would do that. But then you. You read the Ruby Ridge thing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They shot a woman while she was holding her baby.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. The kid in the back, I think. Yeah, yeah, the dog.

[Joe Rogan]

Kid. Dog. Yeah. And for what?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

For what?

[Taylor Kitsch]

For nothing. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's weird, man. It's weird. You could. You could be an assassin and for the government.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And even just think you're just doing your job. But it's like, this is. Seems pretty criminal, guys.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's a lot. It's a lot.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just hard to believe that they would.

[Taylor Kitsch]

77, six people died. 20, 20 something kids driving over the.

[Joe Rogan]

House tank and shooting fire into it. Like. And then they denied doing that. Yeah, they denied doing that with the tank shooting fire. But you could, you could watch it. You could watch the fire come out of the tank.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's horrible, man.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. What a role.

[Joe Rogan]

So when you get out of that role, would you stop playing that guy, man? How long does it take for you, you go back to being you?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Probably. I bet you a month, six weeks till you shed it. Yeah. Yeah. Go do something that makes you feel you and alive. Motorcycle ride something. Get the out.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you like dream of that?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, yeah. Not anymore.

[Joe Rogan]

But you did.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Your subconscious. It's funny because it's like, that's. You marry yourself emotionally to said circumstance. And so my subconscious, and I'm sure a lot of actors will say it's like you're wide open. Open. And so you're more vulnerable. I'm way more emotional. And so. Because you just do the work and you're just. Your subconscious is open. So my. Your dreams. Once I start dreaming a little crazy, visceral stuff, that's when I know I'm getting closer for sure. Wow. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you're getting haunted a little bit. It takes six weeks to detox you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And exorcise the ghost.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And then it's like you play this guy. You know what's crazy was acl, and I was walking and prepping for Waco, and randomly out of nowhere, this guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened. Like, this is so random. And I was with my buddy who's out there, and I was like, holy. What the. We gotta do this story now. Like, there's people out there that believe that it's just one conspiracy theory that never happened.

[Joe Rogan]

That's so.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I was like, what?

[Joe Rogan]

There's people that believe everything, though.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

If you could figure out the conspiracy, there's a whole group of people on Reddit dedicated to it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You're late to the party. Any conspiracy, just fill in the blank. There's a bunch of people think space is fake. It's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space. Yeah. Okay. There's people that believe a lot.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Big.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Just. Just to say that alone. Just feels like. Sorry.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's people that, like, flat Earth is not crazy enough. They want to take it to the next level. The next level is space doesn't even exist.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Okay. You know, that's all. You know when you get older and people will just straight up. Like when they talk at you telling you false shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You're like, okay, okay. Usually I'll bite and be like, you're an idiot. Idiot. This is what is actually happening. Right. But no, now it's like, all right, sometimes. Get it out.

[Joe Rogan]

Exhausting, though. You just.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know. Shut. I know.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so fake.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

How do you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

But they, like, double down. Triple down on it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I just had one of those moments.

[Joe Rogan]

Used to be a lot more of those people before the Internet.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know, man. That's a dangerous game.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I don't read. Which is really helpful. Help me.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It really, like, it's Very healthy. Yeah. It is like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I don't read any reviews.

[Joe Rogan]

Good for you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Any of that. I learned the hard way, man. I got hammered on John Carter. That put me in a dark spot. But. Yeah. Had to rebuild everything. But. Yeah. That you're down that tunnel and you're just like. Like, they're not. Just like, he's a bad actor. It's like, this guy should die.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You're a terrible person.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's nuts.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Personal.

[Joe Rogan]

Be better if you were never born. Like, whoa.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

I know you're just trying to write a saucy article, but. Holy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's a lot of sauce.

[Joe Rogan]

Lot of vitriol there. Yeah, yeah. It's weird, man. People. But that's. You know, they like doing that to people they don't know.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's zero accountability. It's so easy.

[Joe Rogan]

And now because of social media, anybody can do.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Do it. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I never used to hear people's opinions.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you had a movie in 1979, the general public either went to see it or did not.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it was like a word of mouth.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And then there was, like, Siskel and Ebert and whoever else is reviewing stuff.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Five other reviewers.

[Joe Rogan]

That was it. And if the New York Times said it was good, you'd go see it. Yeah, yeah. But now it's like, everybody negative always beats. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You get more clicks on a negative hit. And then, you know, that was the beauty of, like, Friday Night Lights. Like, I never. There weren't reviews really. And I was just. We didn't have social media. We're in Austin. No real producers on set or writers. We're kind of. Pete, set it up so great. And you're just going there, slinging, trying, failing, trying again. It was such an amazing experience without all the extra. Yeah. Without any of the weight of, like, is this going to be successful? Like, what does that even mean now? You know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they. Well, do they still do focus groups when they do a film? Yes, they still do that. So that's kind of like a small Internet.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah, it is, kind of.

[Joe Rogan]

Because you're like, well, who are these people? Yeah, they might be like, you went to 200 morons. Yeah. Like, by the way, I like Oklahoma. But there's certain spots where, you know, like, if you wanted to tank a movie, you do a focus group and, you know, some community where everybody's on fence.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You guys watch this movie?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I slept through half, but I don't like that guy's hat.

[Joe Rogan]

Did they get paid? Is that like a joke?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I don't know. That's a good question.

[Joe Rogan]

I bet they do. I bet they do. Which is, then you have to factor in. Okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do focus groups? They, they might be a failure. They might be a really dull witted, dumb minded person and they get to decide the direction of this movie.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And like I don't like the end. Yep, reshoots. $20 million reshoots.

[Joe Rogan]

40% of the audience said they didn't like the ending. 40% of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, true. Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history and we got hammered, obviously. But it's like, I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything.

[Joe Rogan]

I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now. But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If I see a one star review, like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like I don't give it any other thought. It still does work. But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Six movie rules.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like look at Adam Sandler's movies. The critics always hate them. The audiences always love.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, Always.

[Joe Rogan]

It's the most lost thousand. I know, it's crazy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. His movie, such a sweet guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the best. He's the nicest guy of all time. And he's a great regular actor too. Uncut Gems was bananas.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That movie.

[Joe Rogan]

So much anxiety and like, don't do it. He played that guy, that gambling addict, so well, so believable.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Great directors too. Yeah. It's just, it's great guy, Smart move.

[Joe Rogan]

But his comedies, I love his comedies. They're fun and I love that. I can watch with my kids. Kids. Like he's got, they're funny. Like Jack and Jill is funny. It's silly and ridiculous. And Al Pacino's in love with his sister, who is him. It's funny, man. It's a funny movie. It's so stupid and silly. Yeah, but that's, but the critics hate those movies.

[Taylor Kitsch]

They hate them.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, okay, what are you going to see? It's an Adam Sandler movie. This is really good at making this kind of movie. And if you want to go see a fun, light hearted, silly movie, which.

[Taylor Kitsch]

We need a little more.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of heart to it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

His movies are the ones to go to. Yeah, but critics hate him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, they don't.

[Joe Rogan]

It doesn't matter if people love It. That's what matters.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I mean, Terminal is season one.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Taylor Kitsch]

We got hammered.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And the people spoke, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It didn't matter.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That's why I'm here.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, that's why Dark Wolf is dark. We're doing it. You know, it's because people wanted to see why Ben is the way he is and made that decision. Yeah, yeah. If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that green lit. There's no way.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, because it's written by Jack, so. Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being and also a seal, and writes and had the goal. This is how crazy Jack is. Had the goal of first becoming a seal, getting military experiencing, and then becoming a great writer. Like, he had it in his head.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Did he really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. He always wanted to be a seal. He always wanted to serve. So he wanted to do those things. Get real life experience. I mean, that guy has a love of history.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's unbelievable. Incredible love of history. Walking encyclopedia.

[Joe Rogan]

Incredible. He's so brilliant and his recall is phenomenal. But imagine that kind of decision making. I'm going to be a seal. I'm gonna go get deployed, I'm gonna get military combat experience, and then, then I'm gonna go write books. This is his.

[Taylor Kitsch]

That was his, like eight bestsellers. Seven or eight.

[Joe Rogan]

And right out of the box. Terminalist. His first book is fucking incredible. It's incredible. But the guy prepared for it his whole life. Like, he's a voracious reader. Voracious reader, Reads constantly, can recommend books constantly. He's always great about that. And so his first book out of the Gates, like he'd been pairing for it his whole life.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Life. I mean, when he comes on the set and we were shooting this, I think episode five, he came to Budapest. And his energy, like he's like a kid in a candy store, man. It's like I'm gassed out, tired and like, just getting beat up. And here comes car. And it's just the light. It just brings an energy to that set that it's just like, man, we're so lucky to be here, here. And you're like, you know what? You're kind of right. We are.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I just love that guy, man. Super supportive. Right. When I got the role, yeah. He's like not pressing me. He's like, I know you played a SEAL before. If you want any of my notes, who Ben is. And he's like, if you want that long leash Here it is, like, I trust you. Like, he's been nothing but amazing with me so far.

[Joe Rogan]

So he's a brilliant guy.

[Taylor Kitsch]

He really is really super caring. Yep. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, just a great man.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, a truly great man.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that really reflect the true lives that he led. And then he knows a lot of his friends lead, and it's real. It's like he has an understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and the success of the series. Series. That understanding just translates in a way. Like, oh, this is very authentic.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Even, like, little notes, man, I would get with the gun work and all that kind of. And obviously you listen, but it's just like he's. He comes at you of just more excitement, and you don't take it personal. You can't. And you want to get it right when you have him and Jared Shaw, who's another seal, and Mendoza, who's a seal, and we got a. What, Army Ranger who writes a lot of it. Like, we're surrounded by these guys every day. So if they want. If anything is not authentic, you're. I mean, the bullshit meter is, like, fucking two feet away. Right. You know, and I love that, though, because they're doing a lot of my work for me, helping me. Making me look like fucking Ben.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. You know, it's a complicated character to.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, a lot of that stuff. Like, one of my best buddies is SEAL and had, like, 200 guys under him, fought in Ramadi. And bomb specialist guy, wicked dude. And there's a moment in the CIA room in episode one that was written. And then I kind of. I've been hearing this from him for so long, and so it's kind of ingrained in me of just, like, how there's always someone to answer to, and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for. So I'd heard all these stories for, like, the last. Since loan. I met him on loan. And. And so that scene, I was like, this is for you, man. I'm just gonna go and have at it with this CIA guy. And he was at the premiere and watched it and loved that beat. But it's like, I get to serve, you know, some of these guys that they don't get to have those moments.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right.

[Taylor Kitsch]

You know, and that's so fun for me to just go and light them up in that room. One of my favorite scenes.

[Joe Rogan]

Cathartic.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

So I steal from These guys even like. And I get it. I got hammered, or Ben got hammered for being the twist of season one. Right. I'm the guy who kind of orchestrated a lot of it. And. And I was talking to Marcus because I'm like, how the am I going to root this guy, this seal that. That's, like, best friends with Reese? And now all of a sudden, the twist is like, man, I had a hand in this. I'm the guy that put you guys down that tunnel on that op, and your whole platoon died for the most part. And I just. Literally, it was like a little moment that I had with Latrell where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on, and I was like, like, really settle into what that means. This warrior is just decidedly going to die over there, serving. It's beautifully tragic. And I was like, that is where I hung my hat with Ben. Of, like, how I can root this crazy twist of, like, I'm making this decision for you, but you're going to go die with your boots on instead of this. You're going to die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kind of shit. I'm like, I'm gonna take that decision for you. So that's where I rooted Ben for season one. Wow. Yeah. And then I go and open the Mike Murphy museum with Dan and Marcus and a lot of other seals, obviously. And a lot of the seals were like, I get it. You know, But a lot of people just were like, how could you? And I get that part, too, but it was just like, both things are true. Yeah. Yeah. Truly.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Both things are true. How could you and I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a human being.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And, you know, that's. That's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting, because people are.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Super complex and how gray it all is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And how it goes back to, like, you're in mourning of a buddy. You. You broke this promise. His family's dead. And now I'm on an op, and I get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family. Family. I'm gonna put him down. This. I'll take. The beauty of Ben, too, in this is he's accountable for it. Like, I'll take it. Take my trident. Then I do it all over again, which is a beautiful thing. And I think he does, like, It's. It's a very. It's an emotional reaction that, you know, phrase his life. And the other character, Rafe's character, he gets his trident taken, but it's that's one thing we were talking about earlier of just like, it's so gray, and in these really split decision moments that you have. And these guys aren't robots out there. It's like they're emotional. They're trained, like, better than anybody. But at times they have to make these decisions that is like, okay, you're gonna put those girls on the black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade. You don't get to live anymore. I'm gonna do that. But that's a beautiful thing, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And people can relate to it because if you were in that scenario, what would you do? And most people would like to believe, they would say, you're not gonna live anymore.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yes, exactly. We have these talks on set all the time, you know, American primeval evil. We can romanticize the 1850s, or at least I did at the beginning of, like, this guy's a mountain man. This is sick. Like, he's a. Like, if I. If you see me on the river in 1852 and you're like, I want your jacket, you're gonna just come up and kill me and take my jacket.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Like, that's how up the 1800s were back then.

[Joe Rogan]

Lawless.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And so we started shooting, and I was like, we're shooting at 10, 000ft up there, and you're cold, and we're still spoiled, obviously. Your trailer's 50ft away. But it's like this. I'm like, there is nothing in me that would want to be in the 1850s.

[Joe Rogan]

Nothing?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Nothing.

[Joe Rogan]

No. I can't believe people made it through.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I can't either.

[Joe Rogan]

It's hard.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I can't either.

[Joe Rogan]

And those people were living in the lap of luxury. Can people. People. Compared to people who lived 4,000 years before.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, my God, 200 years earlier.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's nuts. I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier. Civilization is super recent. I mean, it's not. Obviously, there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff, but I mean, what we're dealing with right now is super recent.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Relative safety, relative security.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Relative, you know, I mean, do you. Do you.

[Taylor Kitsch]

When you go hunt your Utah back country, wherever you're going, you're going to be in the shop. It's going to be beautiful and quiet and like, I live for that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Well, that's why Montana is a great. It's a great place to hunt, too.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And Montana is a truly wild place.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Outside of Bozeman, right? Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

30, 30 minutes outside?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. 30 minutes outside, you've got like a truly beautiful, incredible un. Just un. If you've never experienced the mountains, like the true mountains, especially when there's some snow on the ground and the wind's whistling around, it's like, it's majestic. It's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

There's something about like mountains really just like it, like awe inspiring. It's like, wow.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Makes perspective, sinks into you. You're in the moment.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's weird that very few people live near him.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know, right?

[Joe Rogan]

You get there, when you get there, you're like, oh my God, I want to see this every day.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Then you're on a flight to New York in two days.

[Joe Rogan]

I lived outside of Boulder for a while.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Oh, beautiful.

[Joe Rogan]

And it was like that every day. It's like you're just driving through these mountains. Like, this is incredible.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like this view that you have is like a vitamin.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It really is.

[Joe Rogan]

Stores your soul.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this place. And it's. It's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, you're right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not a coincidence.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature and it's humbling.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it is.

[Joe Rogan]

It is a little chiller.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Totally.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

And I think for me too, it's so good for the brain for all those reasons. But also it's just like if I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is, is bored. It's like it's your fault if you're bored out there. Right. There's a thousand hikes. Go get into wildlife, go to the national park, go for a walk, anything.

[Joe Rogan]

Fix your perspective.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Truly. And it does, it does, it does. After intense role or whatever it is. Once I land in Bozeman, man, I get on the bike or whatever, go fly fish. It's like, it's. It's a beautiful thing.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's less people there, so it's like.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't feel the buzz.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. Relax. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just bought a $35 protein shake.

[Joe Rogan]

Before I came here in Austin.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I was like, what the is in it? I look up. Yeah, it's like, I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's gonna give me hard for the next seven days or something.

[Joe Rogan]

Grass fed tallow. Yeah, yeah. How do they charge 35 bucks for a smoothie that seems.

[Taylor Kitsch]

I keep adding. I was adding.

[Joe Rogan]

You're adding proteins. Yeah.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Creatine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like what's happening?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's not Montana, but even Austin, like, compared to where I lived before I lived in LA and living here is like, there's only 2 million people. Yeah, it's so much more.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, what they think is traffic is a door. Horrible.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Cute little trap, man.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's true. LA is insane.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just a terrible way to live.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, it really is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's a terrible way to live.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think I get how people used to want to live there because it was the center of, you know, the TV business, the comedy business. But it's. It's not worth it.

[Taylor Kitsch]

No, no, it's not good. I mean, nothing's being filmed there anymore. It's rare. It's just weird, right? Yeah, yeah, it is.

[Joe Rogan]

How did that happen?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

How did they that up?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

How did you up the one spot where everybody wanted to move to, to be an actor? You up that spot?

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. And they have everything. Mountains, beaches.

[Joe Rogan]

You can get to the mountains, to the shore in two hours. You're. You're up in Big Bear, you're down in Santa Monica.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Two hours.

[Joe Rogan]

It's nuts.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Studios. Everything's there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. And they it up.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yep. Brutal. What the is happening?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. You know, I don't know. I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on too.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The people running probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know either.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Not a big fan of LA. Yeah, yeah. I lived here for 17 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you love it here?

[Taylor Kitsch]

I did, yeah. Yeah. I love the lake life.

[Joe Rogan]

It's nice.

[Taylor Kitsch]

It's amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a chilled city too. It's like genuinely good people here. Yeah. There are normal people.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, in la, everybody is like a fail actor. Want to be an actor trying to get on a reality show looking to be a Tik Tok influencer.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Everybody's got something and they want something from you.

[Joe Rogan]

Always, always. And every connection they make is like a networking thing. Every new friend becomes someone is an asset.

[Taylor Kitsch]

An asset.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, because like, very transactional.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yep. Gross.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's gross.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, listen, brother, you're a very interesting guy and you got some awesome stories and you're a really great actor. And so thank you. I've been a fan for a long time.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Likewise.

[Joe Rogan]

This was really fun.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Joe Rogan]

My pleasure, brother. Tell everybody one more time. Terminalist Dark Wolf. It's available now on Amazon.

[Taylor Kitsch]

On Amazon.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is great. And I know the terminal has killed it for Amazon.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, we're number one right now.

[Joe Rogan]

That's amazing.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Yeah, thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

That's awesome.

[Taylor Kitsch]

Thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

Great show. It's a great show. All right, my pleasure. Bye, everybody.