The Joe Rogan Experience #2385 – Rick Strassman

Release Date: September 26, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Dr. Rick Strassman

Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Rick Strassman, psychiatrist, researcher, and renowned author of "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" and "DMT and the Soul of Prophecy." The conversation explores the intersections of psychedelics (especially DMT), spirituality, biblical stories, and alternative interpretations of ancient texts. Dr. Strassman draws from his years of research and deep study of the Hebrew Bible, connecting psychedelic states with prophetic experiences and discussing the relevance of these connections to modern life, technology, and human consciousness.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. DMT, Prophecy, and the Hebrew Bible

• (00:18–01:12) Strassman outlines the basis of his book, comparing DMT-induced states to prophetic experiences described in the Hebrew Bible, especially Ezekiel’s visions:

  "If you read chapter one of Ezekiel, there’s flames and there’s angels and there’s wings and there’s eyes on the back of wings and there’s roaring sound and blue ice above the person he flies through space. Yeah. Quite psychedelic." (Strassman, 00:33)

• References to theories that ancient prophets’ visions (e.g., the burning bush) could have been induced by DMT or similar compounds found in local plants (acacia, Peganum harmala).

2. Language, Interpretation, and the Root of Stories

• (01:56–03:10) The significance of Hebrew roots: the word for "bush" and "Sinai" share the same root, possibly tying biblical locations with psychoactive experiences.
• (05:07–08:29) Strassman’s spiritual evolution—from Zen Buddhism to Jewish mysticism, prompted by inconsistencies between Buddhist philosophy and DMT experiences, and his discovery of unique Jewish psychological insights.
• The process of learning ancient Hebrew and how the original language offers a spectrum of meanings and interpretations that English cannot capture.

3. Experiencing Ancient Consciousness

• (10:50–13:40) Dr. Strassman’s immersive experience in ancient crafts (spinning yarn) helped him embody the mindset of biblical figures, enhancing his reading of the Hebrew Bible.

4. The Book of Enoch, Giants, and Flood Myths

• (14:28–19:30) Rogan and Strassman discuss the surreal narrative of the Book of Enoch (fallen angels, Nephilim, giants), and how these tie into global flood myths—possibly connected to ancient catastrophic events (e.g., the Younger Dryas impact theory).
• Modern interpretations that attempt to link ancient myths with real geological or cosmic events.

5. Technological Evolution and the Future of Humanity

• (20:21–26:21) Discussion on evolution, AI, and post-human futures, referencing Olaf Stapledon’s "Last and First Men," the possibility of digital life forms, and the ethical frameworks required to guide such transitions.
• Strassman brings up biblical ethics and the 600+ commandments as spiritual and practical guidelines for human flourishing.

6. Reality, Alternative Dimensions, and Free Will

• (27:54–29:41; 101:04–103:48) Strassman posits that early biblical stories might describe realities that function like parallel worlds or DMT states—“a completely different independent level of reality.”
• Free will and determinism are discussed as ongoing puzzles, with the conversation floating between the metaphysical, biological, and technological realms.

7. Clothing, Self-Awareness, and Original Enlightenment

• (32:56–35:48) Rogan jokes about clothes as social necessity to prevent a "chimp-like" society, while Strassman discusses self-awareness and the transition from “original enlightenment” (infant innocence) to adult consciousness.

8. Psychedelics, Microdosing, and Therapeutic Uses

• (80:15–82:51) Both men delve into microdosing (ayahuasca) and the therapeutic uses of psychedelics like ibogaine in treating addiction and PTSD.
• Debate about legality and responsible access to psychedelics.

9. On Human Violence, History, and Indigenous Americans

• (87:35–91:56) An exploration of violence in human history—Cain and Abel, Native American wars, and the loss of pre-Columbian civilizations—coupled with musings about progress and the cost of modernity.

10. Translation Choices, Ethics, and the Exclusion of Enoch

• (97:26–134:26) Insight into why the Book of Enoch was excluded from the Hebrew Bible—too psychedelic, lacking clear ethical teachings, and possibly too bizarre for direct inclusion.

11. Drugs, Addiction, and Modern Health Challenges

• (162:13–180:57) Personal stories about Adderall, alcohol, SSRIs, obesity, and Ozempic—the balance between pharmaceutical solutions and lifestyle changes.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Prophetic and DMT Experiences

• "When you’re in the DMT state, it’s just there and it’s very consistent, very real. Certain things happen there. And so I think… the account of the Hebrew Bible was like the DMT world. It was a parallel level of reality."
  (Strassman, 27:54)

• "The Book of Enoch is just fully psychedelic… I think it’s from the release of endogenous DMT, it comes about. Or from drinking and having an ayahuasca like experience."
  (Strassman, 62:30)

On Modern Technology and AI

• "I think we might be giving birth to something we didn't anticipate would be a life."
  (Rogan, 20:21)

• "I try to follow it through a biblical lens… what’s good and bad, what’s right and wrong. That’s what I like about the Bible."
  (Strassman, 24:20)

On the Function of Ethics and the Golden Rule

• "The two themes in the Hebrew Bible are one is there’s one God and next is the golden rule. So one God, golden rule."
  (Strassman, 61:23)

On Alternative Realities and Ancient Stories

• "I think the important thing that I get anyway out of the Hebrew Bible is a kind of an understanding of how things are between us and between us and God."
  (Strassman, 68:02)

• "Those stories… are written down and so people have been studying them for thousands of years."
  (Strassman, 118:21)

On Living and Surviving Catastrophes

• "It’s the only thing that makes sense. If we know that we, we’re hit all the time. We… all accept the fact that the Yucatan impact, that’s what killed the dinosaurs."
  (Rogan, 106:40)

On Health, Faith, and Mortality

• "Like, you know, Prema Levi was a chemist, very clinical… The kinds of things people can go through. Yeah. You know, so that cheered me up in a way."
  (Strassman, 152:07)

• "It’s great to see you looking healthy… sometimes a bad health trip takes them. Just takes them down and weakens them so much that they never really come back."
  (Rogan, 153:13)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:18–01:12: Comparing DMT state to biblical prophecy (Ezekiel).
• 03:10–05:07: Ancient plant chemistry, biblical symbolism, and meanings in Hebrew.
• 14:28–17:49: Book of Enoch, giants, angels, and the reason for the flood.
• 20:21–24:29: AI, digital future, biblical ethics, and commandments.
• 27:54–29:41: DMT and alternative states as levels of biblical reality.
• 35:24–38:48: Dual enlightenment, childlike innocence vs. adult consciousness.
• 62:12–63:14: Book of Enoch as a psychedelic text, origins, angels, and Nephilim.
• 80:15–82:51: Microdosing ayahuasca experience and careful psychedelic use.
• 86:52–90:53: History and violence among ancient and Native American societies.
• 97:20–134:26: Terminology of "Hebrew Bible" vs. "Old Testament," the exclusion of Enoch, and what makes a biblical text canonical.
• 162:13–180:57: Amphetamines, Adderall experience, and insight into the cultural prevalence of stimulants.
• 189:33–192:05: DMT as endogenous, the Matrix, and the possibility our reality is a simulation.
• 191:16–192:38: Episode wrap-up, gratitude, and book plugs.

Additional Noteworthy Topics

• Nature and Animal Behavior: Coyotes, mountain lions, survival stories showcasing the primal side of life.
• Food Laws and Health: Discussion about dietary laws in the Bible, possible origins in trichinosis, and health consequences of ancient vs. modern diets.
• Mortality and Assisted Death: Strassman’s near-death experience, faith, and ethical considerations around assisted suicide.
• Exercise vs. Medication: The importance of physical activity for mental health as opposed to, or in tandem with, pharmaceutical solutions.

Tone and Style

• The episode is a blend of curiosity, humor, deep philosophical inquiry, and accessible wisdom.
• Strassman retains a measured, scholarly tone with personal anecdotes.
• Rogan is energetic, probing, and balances heavy topics with jokes and relatable asides.

Concluding Thoughts

This discussion is a rich tapestry weaving together ancient scripture, psychedelic exploration, historical mystery, and modern existential questions about technology and consciousness. Strassman’s dual background in science and spirituality allows for unique insights into both the roots of human religious experience and the significance of altered states.
A must-listen for those interested in the overlap of the mystical, the historical, and the neuroscientific.

Recommended Reading from the Episode:

• DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman
• DMT and the Soul of Prophecy by Rick Strassman
• Last and First Men by Olaf Stapledon
• The Book of Enoch
• Empire of the Summer Moon by S.C. Gwynne
• Coyote America by Dan Flores

[End of summary]