The Joe Rogan Experience #2387 – Gregg Braden (October 1, 2025)

Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Gregg Braden
Length: ~2 hr 45 min
Theme: Exploring humanity’s origins, consciousness, technology, and the struggle between control and human potential.

Episode Overview

In this expansive conversation, Joe Rogan welcomes best-selling author and researcher Gregg Braden for a deep dive into humanity’s ancient past, our relationship with technology, and the existential battle for human identity and sovereignty. Braden, known for bridging science and spirituality, examines questions of human origins, the consciousness embedded in the universe, the pitfalls of transhumanism, and the meaning of “evil” in a technological age. Together, they challenge prevailing narratives on ancient civilizations, climate change, AI, and social control, urging listeners to reclaim their innate potential and divinity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Influence and Legacy of Alternative Media

• The episode opens with nostalgia for late-night AM radio and Art Bell’s show, Coast to Coast ([00:24]-[05:29]), highlighting how what was once “fringe” (e.g., Area 51, Bob Lazar) is now mainstream.
• Braden honors Art Bell’s open-mindedness and respect for all callers, emphasizing the need for discernment—having “an open mind, but not a gaping mind” ([03:36], Braden).

2. Ancient Civilizations, Cosmic Mysteries, and Suppressed Evidence

• Braden elaborates on the “Face on Mars” and geometric “impossible” structures found in NASA photographs from both Mars and the Moon ([05:55]-[14:34]).
  • Nature doesn’t produce 90-degree angles; these suggest intentionality, possibly ancient construction by advanced civilizations ([07:42], Braden).
  • He references metals found in lunar samples “that do not occur naturally in nature” – evidence, he argues, of advanced technology ([12:08]).
• The guest expands on theories that humanity may have a far older and more complicated history, with cycles of civilization rising, achieving wonders, and falling ([14:34]). China’s intention to livestream their lunar findings is raised as a possible catalyst for disclosure of these mysteries.

3. Questioning Mainstream Human Evolution

• A major thread is Braden’s skepticism about Darwinian evolution as it pertains to Homo sapiens ([22:59]-[31:04]):
  • Human chromosome 2 appears to be the result of a telomere-to-telomere fusion ~200,000 years ago—something he says cannot happen in nature ([29:10], Braden).
  • Chromosome 7, responsible for complex speech and singing, mutated in synchrony with chromosome 2.
  • For Braden, the DNA evidence increasingly implies “intelligent intervention.”
  • He contrasts scientific gatekeeping with a willingness to let “evidence tell the story.”

“The old theory...Darwin’s theory of evolution is in trouble. The DNA is telling the story.” ([29:10], Braden)

4. Consciousness of the Universe

• Braden describes a paradigm shift where physicists increasingly see the universe not as “dead and inert” but as “alive and intelligent and conscious.” He cites NASA and James Webb imagery: galaxies responding to danger by literally moving themselves—suggesting cosmic intelligence ([31:04], Braden).

5. Transhumanism, AI, and the Battle for Humanness

• Braden warns of the current “battle for our humanness,” arguing that the transhuman movement—embedding technology in the body—threatens to undermine innate human capacities ([33:53]-[46:02]).
  • Example: Overuse of VR and psychedelics can atrophy natural abilities (“Use it or lose it” principle, [33:53]).
  • He asserts: “Unless we change our trajectory right now, we probably are the last generation of pure humans.” ([33:53], Braden)

6. Soft Technology: The Human Body as Conscious Interface

• Braden introduces the concept of the human body not just as biology, but as advanced information technology ([40:59]-[46:02]), likening DNA to blockchain: secure, transparent, immutable, distributed.
• Every cell functions electrically (capacitors, resistors), generating large-scale electromagnetic potential. Human DNA operates as a “fractal antenna,” tuning to the field of consciousness ([162:55], Braden).

7. Societal Control, Power, and the Suppression of Divinity

• Rogan and Braden discuss the mechanisms of control—social media, digital IDs, limitation of speech—and the resulting erosion of human sovereignty ([49:13]-[52:28]).
• They argue that these controls, whether for profit, power, or resource extraction, are fundamentally designed to strip away critical thinking and self-regulation:

“There is a fundamental struggle between good and evil...the denial of our human potential.” ([89:28], Braden)

• Braden suggests that most “evil” is the denial of human divinity—our ability to create, imagine, heal, and love ([64:42], Braden).

“The purpose of evil is to deny human divinity...anything that denies those things is an expression of evil.” ([64:42], Braden)

8. Mystery Traditions, Gnostic Texts, and Human Divinity

• The conversation delves into Gnostic gospels (e.g., Gospel of Thomas): central is the idea that divinity is internal, not external—a power each human must awaken ([61:14]-[74:25]).
  • Rogan highlights controversial sayings (1:14):

  “What you have, what you bring forth from within you will save you, and what you don’t bring forth from within you will destroy you.” ([64:42], Braden quoting Thomas)

  • Braden: “It’s what sets us apart from all other forms of life...expressions of divinity: imagination, creativity, love, empathy, healing.”

9. Mind/Body/Heart Coherence and Intuitive Powers

• Braden lays out practical, science-based techniques for harmonizing heart and brain, noting research at the Institute of HeartMath ([109:56]-[119:58]).
  • Three steps: Focus on the heart, slow the breath (longer exhale), evoke feelings of gratitude.
  • Coherence brings biochemical/psychological benefits and “deep intuition” ([119:58]).
  • “When we harmonize heart and brain, we access levels of intuition...our heart senses events before they happen.” ([114:44], Braden)

10. Climate Change—Cycles, Data, and the Control Narrative

• Braden affirms change and warming are real, but argues the causes are misrepresented ([133:38]-[153:32]):
  • CO₂ levels have been much higher in the past with abundant life ([137:34]).
  • Ice core data show temperatures rise before CO₂, suggesting natural cycles (mantle heating the oceans).
  • Technologies for clean, sustainable energy (e.g., thorium) have been suppressed.
  • He posits climate fear is used to push control agendas, conditioning youth to see carbon (and thus the human body) as inherently “bad.”

“Why would we want to push this planet back to...the Pleistocene era?” ([153:32], Braden)

11. Call to Action: Claiming Our Humanity

• The episode concludes with a rallying cry to recognize the unique gift of human existence and oppose systems that would “remake us” without our consent.
  • Embrace innate creativity, imagination, empathy—Braden: “I’m advocating for our humanness, our divinity, and our love... because I think we’re worth preserving.” ([162:58], Braden)
  • Rogan: “That’s the only way people find these things, for people like you to come out and have these conversations… spark thoughts in people’s heads.” ([161:30], Rogan)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On discernment in media:

  "It's important to have, have an open mind, but not a gaping mind." – Gregg Braden [03:36]

• On chromosome 2's implications:

  "Chromosome 2 is the product of a fusion ... That does not happen in nature. It can't happen in nature." – Braden [29:10]

• On evil:

  "The purpose of evil is to deny human divinity." – Braden [64:42]

• On the universal struggle:

  "We are born into an ancient struggle... For lack of a better term, it's a struggle between good and evil." – Braden [55:32]

• On humanity at a crossroads:

  “This is the generation. ...The experts are saying unless we change our trajectory right now, we very probably are the last generation of pure humans that the world will ever know.” – Braden [33:53]

• On divinity:

  "The ability to transcend perceived limitations. ... Divinity is our ability to become the best version of ourselves." – Braden [64:42]

• On reclaiming power:

  “Does it affirm or does it deny my humanness? ... That’ll tell you what you need to know.” – Braden [89:28]

• On AI and transhumanism:

  "There’s a concerted effort, Joe, to deny us our ability to express our humanness." – Braden [46:02]

• On social control:

  "You gotta limit the people's ability to rebel, limit their ability to gather resources, keep them at each other's throats ... and then get social media bots to continue that fight going all day long." – Rogan [52:28]

• On healing and technology:

  "We are the only form of life that can consciously self-regulate all of this technology and apply it to our healing, to our intuition, to our resilience." – Braden [41:59]

• On claiming our future:

  “Why would we want to give that away to technology before we even know what it means to be human? And once we give it away, we can never go back. This is how you lose a species. And I think we’re worth preserving.” – Braden [162:58]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Art Bell & Alt Media Legacy: [00:24] – [05:29]
• Mars & Moon Anomalies: [05:55] – [14:34]
• Ancient Human Origins/Chromosome 2: [22:59] – [31:04]
• Universe as Conscious Entity: [31:04] – [33:53]
• Transhumanism & “Last Generation of Pure Humans”: [33:53] – [46:02]
• The Human Body as Information Technology: [40:59] – [46:02]
• Societal Control, Censorship, Digital IDs: [49:13] – [52:28]
• Evil as the Denial of Human Divinity: [64:42] – [74:25]
• Gnostic Texts & Inner Power: [61:14] – [74:25]
• Mind/Heart Coherence: [109:56] – [119:58]
• Climate Change – Data, Narratives, Control: [133:38] – [153:32]

Final Thoughts

This episode is a blend of scientific skepticism, philosophical inquiry, and spiritual advocacy. Braden makes a powerful case for the protection and cultivation of human sovereignty and potential. Both Rogan and Braden agree: the critical challenge ahead is to nurture our distinctive human capacities—creativity, empathy, consciousness—before they’re undermined by systems of control and technology.

If you want to reflect on the biggest questions of what it means to be human in an age of AI, societal fragmentation, and ancient mysteries, this episode will stay with you.