The Joe Rogan Experience #2388 – Lionel Richie

Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Lionel Richie (singer/songwriter, legendary member of the Commodores, solo artist, cultural icon)

Overview

Joe Rogan sits down with Lionel Richie for an intimate, humorous, and deeply reflective conversation. The episode centers on the ups and downs of Richie’s extraordinary life and career, from humble beginnings and naïveté to superstardom, creative struggles, personal loss, and the dizzying politics of the music industry. Richie discusses lessons learned, legendary collaborators, the realities of fame, the nature of talent, and the value of vulnerability. Throughout, his signature humor and authenticity shine through as he offers wisdom to young creatives and reflects on decades spent at the heart of popular music.

Key Themes and Insights

1. Writing the Memoir: Reflections, Regrets, and Revelations

• Lionel’s Book Journey: The process of writing his memoir forced Richie, for the first time, to look back on his life, unearthing memories and stories he’d long pushed past in his forward-charging career.
  • “For the first time in the history of Harper's, probably, they said, Mr. Richie, no more stories. In fact, can we take some of the stories?” (01:03)
• Self-Discovery: He realized just how much he’d survived, what he’d learned, and how lucky he feels to still be telling his own story.
  • “What this book made me do was actually turn around and look behind me. ... And I tell you what I discovered. I discovered Lionel Richie.” (01:49)
• Survival and Perspective: Richie often avoided looking back, guided by what he calls the “Italian race car driver’s theory” – “What's behind me doesn't count. What's in front of me.” (01:20)

2. Life Lessons on Endurance, Humor, and Resilience

• Taking the Hits: Richie’s father taught him the most crucial attribute in both boxing and life is not throwing punches, but being able to take them and get back up.
  • “A great fighter is not determined by how many punches he can throw, it's how many punches he can take.” (02:51)
• Surviving the Music Industry: Enduring rejection, bad reviews, and loss is part and parcel, but returning after every punch is the real triumph.
  • “In the music business... You're going to get punched every day of your life. And what's that punch? 'No, no, no, no.' That's the punch. Now, can you get up off the floor and come back?” (03:10)
• Humor as Survival: Both growing up during the civil rights era and entering the competitive entertainment world, Richie learned humor was essential.
  • “If you lose your sense of humor, they got you.” (06:06)
  • “If you can find something funny out of this experience, take that ha ha to the next day.” (06:06)

3. Early Days: The Commodores and Finding His Path

• Band Formation: The Commodores emerged from a freshman campus band contest—first as "the Mystics”—before joining forces and forming the iconic group.
  • “We started in 68, on the university campus… that was the beginning of the Commodores.” (08:50)
• Realizing the Dream: Early opportunities (e.g., opening for the Jackson 5) crystallized Richie’s desire to pursue music—quickly diverting from his intended path toward the Episcopal priesthood.
  • “I was going to be an Episcopal priest...some girl said, sing it, baby. And I said, call the minister back on the phone. I said, I don't think I'm going to be priest material.” (10:56)
• Band = Brotherhood: The Commodores were more than a band; they were his first brothers, sharing every disaster, laughter, and formative moment.
  • “I didn't grow up with brothers...These became...forget the band, these were five brothers.” (09:41)

4. Music, Creativity, and the Art of 'Receiving'

• Education vs. Hustle: Richie notes the difference between academic training and the school of hustle he found at Motown. Learning from “wizards” like Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson taught him that creativity can't be taught, only unleashed.
  • “In academia, there's a logical reason why, you know what you know, because you studied it, right?...But at Motown, the whole damn company was tapping on the table.” (24:05)
• Creativity is Receptive: Richie discovered the secret of songwriting isn't technical prowess but being open (receiving) to inspiration, which comes in silence.
  • “So then it's a word that we learned called receiving. I'm just receiving. So now, where does receiving come from? Receiving comes from the silence.” (28:48)
  • “By the way, there's only 12 notes, Joe... So everything that has ever happened that you've ever heard on any radio, it's only 12 notes. So how do you turn 12 notes into something that sounds new, different?” (29:59)
• Simplicity is King: Simplicity and melody—songs the world can sing—are above all technical displays.
  • “If you confuse me and you dazzle the world with all your musicianship, you just miss the melody that the whole world can sing...” (34:50)
  • “The simplicity is the secret.” (37:19)

5. On Mentorship, Confidence, and Vulnerability

• Learning From the Masters: Richie always sought advice from his idols—Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Barry Gordy—and learned that the most important musical innovation is style, not skill.
  • “I'm not looking for singers, I'm looking for stylists. What's going to make me close my eyes and remember you?” (31:46)
• Imposter Syndrome: Despite decades of accolades, Richie admits years—even decades—of insecurity and fear.
  • “It didn't start out with confidence. It came out with, sooner or later, they're going to know I'm an imposter.” (48:53)
  • “I gotta tell you how many times I walked on stage, Joe, and had a panic attack right in the middle of the show.” (51:36)
• The Value of Stepping Forward: Facing fear is essential. He credits his father:
  • “‘What's the similarity between a hero and a coward? One step forward and one step back...’ Step forward.” (51:49)
  • “Each time I was not gonna say, I'm not going on stage. I go on stage, and I'm gonna sweat for two hours and try to fake my ass off. And now it's like second nature now. But at the time, give me a break.” (52:27)

6. Family, Sacrifice, and the Cost of Success

• Personal Sacrifices: Behind the glitz, Richie describes missing countless family milestones due to touring and the demands of fame, often while privately suffering enormous personal loss (his parents died during career peaks).
  • “You think, yes, I got the hit record at the same time my mother was dying... It's the All Night Long Dancing on the Ceiling tour. My father's dying.” (59:00)
  • “What comes with success are the sacrifices. And even after you make the sacrifices, it's not guaranteed that you're going to win.” (61:10)
• On Going Solo: Leaving the Commodores wasn't just a career move; it was terrifying and fraught with guilt, survivor’s syndrome, and loneliness.
  • “Everyone keeps thinking. Yeah, you went solo. No, no, no, guys...What was that word that comes with that? Scared? Fear.” (63:02)

7. The Machine: Music Industry Changes, Creatives vs. Business

• Industry Politics: Richie describes the music industry’s transformation—from creative, risk-taking labels to corporate consolidation, formulaic decision-making, and power struggles between creative artists and executives.
  • “The creative people were the guys who owned the labels...Then they started consolidating all the things...now it's one big indigestion.” (111:06)
  • “When you bring in non creative people...Shut the up.” (114:48)
• Authenticity vs. Algorithm: The importance of authenticity and human creativity in a world increasingly dominated by repetitive formulas and AI.
  • “Everyone keeps thinking, oh, man, it's going to take over. No, it won't...It's got to be somebody that goes. I want to say this, right? And no, AI can tell you that it's gonna...What's that word? Touch people.” (109:06)

8. Fame: The Double-Edged Sword

• Always On: Richie recounts losing privacy (even at family events) and the psychological impact of constant attention—even being unable to “sneak around” or maintain normal friendships.
  • “You try to sneak around and eat some dinner, it ain't not happening...And now they come up and say, can we have a picture?...This is very weird.” (86:45–88:21)
• Adapting to Visibility: He learned tools to neutralize a room or embrace attention, inspired by Muhammad Ali.
  • “Muhammad Ali said it correctly...you neutralize the room. You can either make it a frenzy, or...That's what Michael...couldn’t get that in his head.” (98:12–99:10)
• Perspective on Michael Jackson: Richie was close to Michael as both were lead singers on their way up; he saw firsthand how impossible his stratospheric level of fame was to manage:
  • “He never had a normal moment.” (77:07)
  • “He was the oldest soul you ever met in your life. ...and they walk off stage and turn into 12 year olds.” (78:39)

9. Cultural Roots, Legacy, and Crossover

• Bringing the World Home: Travels shaped Richie’s approach as a songwriter, aiming to create music the whole world could feel.
  • “When I come home to write a song, I don't write a song based on, is it going to be a song that can identify to America? Only I write a song that the world will understand.” (106:56)
• Challenging Boundaries: He faced criticism for “crossing over” and refusal to stay in a genre box, which he views as shortsighted.
  • “What, what, what, what? What you doing, man? ...My answer was very clear. If Mozart were black, would he be Mozart? No, because he wouldn't be funky enough, and you wouldn't have played him.” (108:22)

10. Advice to Young Creatives

• On Education: Urges parents to nurture creative children and not force them into academic molds—grades aren’t the measure of future success.
  • “There's academics...And then there's the creatives...The last thing you want to do is put a creative kid in a room full of academics.” (42:32)
• Keep Persevering: The path is rife with rejection, insecurity, and false starts—but the only key is not to quit.
  • “The difference between a Lionel Richie and Sandy Smith out there...is that Sandy Smith hasn't started taking her first steps. And that if she keeps going down that line, she could be her.” (131:27)
  • “How many times can you take no? How many times can you take rejection? ...The world is designed to make you go away. Right?” (132:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lionel Richie:
  • “What's behind me doesn't count. What's in front of me.” (01:20)
  • “I tell all the parents, leave them alone, leave them alone...No one to this day has ever asked to see my college degree.” (42:32)
  • “If you lose your sense of humor, they got you.” (06:06)
  • “Simplicity is the secret.” (37:19)
  • “If you confuse me and you dazzle the world with all your musicianship, you just miss the melody that the whole world can sing.” (35:02)
  • “Out of fear, I gotta come up with another song...I gotta tell you how many times I walked on stage, Joe, and had a panic attack right in the middle of the show.” (51:36)
  • “If I can't play it, I can hum it. But most of the time, I could just play it.” (49:50)
  • “What's the similarity between a hero and a coward? One step forward and one step back...no matter how much it scares me. Step forward.” (51:49)
  • “What comes with success are the sacrifices.” (61:10)
  • “Muhammad Ali said it correctly...you neutralize the room. You can either make it a frenzy, or you can...” (98:12)
  • “Before you become a genius, you have to take the responsibility of being an absolute idiot to everybody around you.” (121:44)
  • “If I were you... but you're not.” (117:46)
• Joe Rogan:
  • “That's so important for young people to hear that a guy like you would panic.” (52:43)
  • “It's formula.” (110:16)
  • “That struggle between the creatives and the money people always exists.” (110:59)
  • “You have a beautiful house on a shitty foundation.” (134:44)

Noteworthy Segments

• On Simplicity in Songwriting & Advice from Barry Gordy
  • “If you got a hit record. Hum it to me. If you need to play music, you got a nice tune. … Now hum it to me.” (39:38)
• Industry Shift: Creative People to Business People
  • “The creative people were the guys who owned the labels...Then they started consolidating all the things...now it’s one big indigestion.” (111:06–111:33)
• On Being the “Schoolboys” Among Gangsters
  • “You mean...we played gangsta. They weren’t playing gangsta...” (69:44)
  • “The Schoolboys, this was fantasy land, right? Are you kidding me?” (74:45)
• On Michael Jackson’s Childhood and Fame
  • “The golden goose needs play period time. He needs play time, Right?” (81:11)
  • “We call him Quincy. Called him, okay, here comes Smellie... his nickname was for the insiders was Smelly.” (82:37–83:54)
• On Rediscovering Himself
  • “What this book did for me...I discovered Lionel Richie.” (58:21)

Final Thoughts

The episode is a masterclass in storytelling and humility, as Lionel Richie “receives” wisdom and laughs while demystifying fame and success. His recurrent message: the creative journey is filled with fear, rejection, and doubt, but humor, resilience, and a willingness to step forward—despite the fear—are the only paths through.

Selected Timestamps

• 01:20 – On the impossibility of fitting his life into a book
• 02:51 – Lessons in resilience from his father
• 08:50 – Origin story of the Commodores
• 10:56 – Choosing music over the priesthood
• 24:05 – Realizing academia was not the “school of hustle”
• 29:59 – The humble universality of 12 musical notes
• 31:46 – The importance of unique style and “receiving” for artists
• 34:50 – Why melody trumps technical complexity: “You miss the melody that the world can sing.”
• 51:36 – Struggling with imposter syndrome and stage fright
• 61:10 – The private sacrifices that come with success
• 98:12 – Muhammad Ali’s approach to fame
• 106:56 – Writing music for the world
• 111:06 – The era of consolidation in music
• 121:44 – Taking creative risks before anyone understands you

“The book is not about how I won. It’s how I survived the valleys.”
— Lionel Richie (54:12)

“If you lose your sense of humor, they got you.”
— Lionel Richie (06:06)

“You better hope like hell you have a sense of humor. Cause if you don’t, it’s gonna eat you up alive.”
— Lionel Richie (05:22)

An episode full of soul, struggle, and song—a must-listen for creatives and music lovers alike.