Podcast Summary: Joe Rogan Experience #2421 – Derek, More Plates More Dates

Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Derek (More Plates More Dates)
Episode Theme: Supplement Innovation, Performance, Biohacking, PEDs, and Modern Fitness Culture

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the science, development, and cultural impact of cognitive and physical performance supplements, especially the new Gorilla Mind nootropic drink developed by Derek. The conversation dives deep into supplement formulation, nutrition, the evolution of performance enhancement (legal and illegal), the realities of PED use in both sports and Hollywood, and broader discussions on health, weight loss, hormone therapies, athletic performance, and the psychological effects of modern technology and social media.

Key Discussion Points

1. Launch of Gorilla Mind’s Nootropic Drink

• Flavor & First Impressions ([00:03])

  • Joe tries the new “Red Gummy Fish” flavor and praises its taste.
  • Derek explains this is a liquid version of their nootropic formula for daily, general use.

• Formula Rationale & Key Ingredients ([00:41])

  • Derek details the move from capsules to drink format, including:
    • Tyrosine (dopamine precursor)
    • Alpha GPC (bioavailable choline for cognition)
    • Caffeine (200mg per can; balance between effect and overuse)
    • Uridine monophosphate (“Restores” dopamine response even in stimulant-adapted cases)
    • L-Theanine (balances caffeine, boosts “verbal fluency” and focus)
    • Saffron Extract (antidepressant/anti-anxiety, SSRIs alternative, low side-effect profile)
    • Huperzine-A (prevents acetylcholine breakdown for a “one-two punch” effect)

  “You have just like a heightened level of cognitive capacity through both like the one, two punch.” – Derek ([06:19])

• Dose Determination & Synergy ([06:19]–[08:04])

  • Derek describes years of personal experimentation and clinical research.
  • Designed for efficacy but long-term safety; avoids “hammer” solutions (megadoses).
  • Early days involved logbooks, trial and error, mixing bulk nootropics at home.

  “You'd make some disgusting shake...and create your ultimate combination through trial and error.” – Derek ([08:04])

2. Supplement Industry & Early Experiences

• Nootropic Evolution & Alpha Brain ([11:36])

  • Joe recounts experimenting with Neuro1 and development of Alpha Brain, discussing its side effects (e.g. headaches in some users).
  • Derek shares a cautionary tale about early Gorilla Mind prototypes with L-dopa causing severe dopamine overdoses.

  “Oh my God, I had like dopamine overdose myself...way too intense.” – Derek ([15:11])

• Advantages of Drink vs. Pill ([16:25])

  • Adjusting dosage is easier and more flexible with drinks.

3. Nutrition and Performance Essentials

• Choline & Dietary Deficiencies ([01:45])

  • Choline rarely prioritized; best through liver, eggs, nutrition-dense foods.
  • Many with “relatively balanced” diets still partially deficient.

• Caffeine’s Real Performance Doses ([17:11])

  • Most “acutely ergogenic” studies use 3-6mg/kg (often 400–600mg per serving).
  • Historical context: performance benefits, previous banned stimulant thresholds, athletic tactics.

• Creatine Dosage & Forms ([21:00])

  • Revisiting standard vs. “megadose” creatine.
  • Powder vs. gummies; palatability vs. convenience.
  • Creatine’s misunderstood reputation (“like steroids”), differences in tolerance, especially among women.

4. The Wild West: Supplement & PED History

• GNC “Wild West” Days ([26:12])

  • Prohormones, over-the-counter steroids, and “meth-like” stimulants (e.g., original Jack3d).
  • Lax oversight led to dangerous drugs, early deaths, and side effects (including erectile dysfunction).

• Bodybuilding's Culture of Deception ([31:13])

  • Lying about steroid use for endorsements, misleading new athletes.
  • Shift toward more transparency due to social/media consequences.

  “You have one chance to tell the truth forever...the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.” – Joe ([33:10])

5. PEDs in Hollywood & Sports

• Actors and PED Openness ([34:05])

  • Frank Grillo’s transparency on TRT and Anavar.
  • The Rock alluding to peptide use; speculation on health-driven downsizing.
  • Body image shift: mass monsters vs. “downsizing” for health/artistic roles.

• F1 and Supplement Use ([61:14])

  • Tech advancements, hydration tricks (glycerol), and queries into nootropic use among drivers.

6. Hormones, Medicine, & Policy

• Women's HRT: Science, Stigma, and Policy Reversals ([69:25])

  • Decades of fear over breast cancer risks were based on studies with non-bioidentical (horse-derived) hormones.
  • Recent FDA reversal of black box warnings after improved evidence of safety and benefits.

  “So for years...we went thinking, oh, it's going to cause clotting issues...Now...it's like, look at all this literature showing the cardioprotective effects, showing the neuroprotective effects, showing the bone support...” - Derek ([73:06])

• Testosterone, Transitioning, and Medical Ethics ([78:39], [81:25])

  • Over-enthusiastic optimization in women, risk of masculinization.
  • Trans hormone therapy: euphoria vs. long-term unknowns; detransitioner struggles.
  • The impact of social trends, policy, and medical gatekeeping on individual outcomes.

7. Modern Obesity, GLP-1s, and Weight Loss

• GLP-1 Agonists (Ozempic, etc.) and Combination Therapies ([155:19])
  • Appetite suppression, muscle/bone loss risk; future direction: combine with anabolic agents (IGF, myostatin inhibitors) and strength training.
  • Examples of successful natural weight loss (Jelly Roll) and “willpower monsters” (Goggins-inspired transformation).

8. Genetics, Enhancement and the Future

• Gene therapies, Myostatin Inhibitors, and Limits ([155:01])

  • The possibility of future genetic engineering for hypertrophy.
  • Limb-lengthening, “bone smashing,” and the social pressure to “fix” one’s genetics.

• Biohacking Caution ([178:39])

  • Real complications from limb lengthening; need for skepticism with extreme enhancement methods.

9. Social Media, Fame, and Mental Health

• Toxicity and Addiction ([117:41], [126:55])
  • How chasing likes, approval, and online validation saps “precious resources.”
  • Joe’s evolving boundary-setting: post-and-ghost, separate work phones, do not disturb settings.
  • Social media’s unique negative effect on relationships, fame, and personal well-being.

  “It’s the opposite of mindfulness...living for other people’s attention that you don’t even know.” – Joe ([119:01])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Supplement Overdose
  “Just like makes you extremely nauseous...A lot of people think more is better...but with dopamine if you overdo it...you just get sick and have to lie down for hours.” – Derek ([15:46])

• On Caffeine and Athletic Dosing
  “The studies done for caffeine-induced performance enhancement are all looking at like three to six milligrams a kilogram...400, 500, 600 milligrams are the doses that really move the needle.” – Derek ([17:11])

• Hollywood PED Openness
  “You have one chance to tell the truth forever. The moment you violate that, you're always going to be a bullshit artist.” – Joe ([33:10])

• On Social Media’s Dangers
  “For the most part...you’re using very valuable resources on things that aren’t valuable at all.” – Joe ([122:03])

• On Weight Loss Mindset
  “It's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight cut...and then it's momentum after that.” – Joe ([159:38])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Gorilla Mind Drink Introduction & Ingredients ([00:03] – [06:19])
• Formulation, Dosing, and Personal Testing ([06:19] – [09:26])
• Nootropic and Supplement Industry Stories ([11:34] – [16:24])
• Nutrition Deficiencies & Caffeine Science ([01:43]; [17:11])
• Workout Supplements, Creatine & the Gummy Debate ([21:00] – [24:02])
• Wild West Supplement Stories & PEDs in Sports ([26:12] – [33:43])
• PEDs/Transparency in Hollywood/Actors ([34:05] – [39:14])
• Hormone Replacement Therapy, Science, and Policy ([69:25] – [76:25])
• GLP-1 Drugs, Fat Loss, and Future “Smart” Stacks ([155:01] – [157:32])
• Social Media, Fame, and Mental Health ([117:41]; [119:01]; [127:30])
• Genetic Engineering, Limb Lengthening, Biohacking Extremes ([155:08]; [173:03])

Tone & Style Notes

• Informal, candid, and often humorous with sporadic profanity.
• Joe alternates between storytelling, probing questions, and skeptical commentary.
• Derek is detailed, methodical, occasionally self-deprecating, and emphasizes evidence and firsthand experience.
• Both reveal a deep wariness of hype cycles — whether in supplements, exercise trends, or public narratives.

For Listeners Who Missed It…

This episode is a goldmine for anyone interested in nutrition, cognition, performance hacks, and the ethical grey areas of biohacking and PEDs. Whether you're a fitness enthusiast, sports fan, or just curious about modern health debates (from hormone therapy to the impact of scrolling your phone), there’s a blend of science, personal anecdotes, and cultural commentary you won’t want to miss.

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