#2433 - James McCann

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2433 – James McCann

Date: December 31, 2025
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest(s): James McCann, Brian Callan (appears as a guest/co-host throughout), Jamie (producer)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Joe Rogan Experience features comedian James McCann in an engaging, freewheeling discussion that spans ancient history, contemporary politics, media credibility, crime, technological change, and the strange—and sometimes dark—corners of human society. With Brian Callan joining in for much of the conversation, the tone is lively, irreverent, and often introspective. The trio riff on topics ranging from prehistoric relics to AI, the failings and absurdities of modern politics, societal change, gender, religion, food, and more, all with their trademark humor and skepticism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Prehistoric Relics and Ancient History

• Mastodon vs. Woolly Mammoth (00:24–01:19)

  • Conversation opens with banter about a mastodon tooth on the table.
  • Distinction between the extinct species, with the help of a sponsor's factoid: Mammoths were taller, grass-eaters; mastodons, shorter, stockier browsers.
  • Discussion touches on relics being carved and sold as keepsakes.
  • McCann: “They don’t know how they died out…people killed them all, people of 10,000 years ago with sticks, or some cataclysm killed most megafauna.”

• Comedic Parallel: Dogma in Science and Comedy (03:04–04:28)

  • Brian reflects on resistance to new ideas in both science and comedy: "It happens in every discipline...people don't like new comedians..."

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2. Comedy Fads and Cultural Change

• Prop Comedy Cycles (04:28–06:12)

  • They discuss the cyclical nature of trends like prop comedy and “ukulele women.”
  • Joe quips: “It’ll be cyclical. It’ll come back...”
  • Brian reminisces about prop comics from the 1980s and how some performance styles go in and out of vogue.

• Australian Comedy and Gun Control (06:12–07:41)

  • Joe recounts “people pretending to be retarded in Australia” as a comedic trend and segues into a discussion on Australia’s gun laws and societal violence.
  • Discussion of an incident where a Muslim man stopped a shooter, and how political sides react.

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3. Violence, Race, and Societal Uprisings

• Media Narratives on Heroism & Identity Politics (07:41–09:51)

  • Exploration of how acts of heroism are interpreted through cultural/religious lenses.
  • Brian: “We want to pretend that people exist in groups…imagine you’re a peaceful Muslim and you have to deal with this...”

• Right-Wing Extremism, Definitions, and Ideological Drift (11:07–12:26)

  • Discussion on government's efforts to reclassify various extremisms, blurring typical left-right boundaries.
  • Joe: “Now they’re trying to reclassify globalized jihadism as a form of right wing extremism…”

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4. Crime, Poverty, and Urban Decay

• Roots of Crime in Poverty, Not Race (14:00–17:51)

  • Discussion about the causes of crime in American cities, referencing Appalachia and black communities.
  • Brian: “If you have a community where people are selling drugs…you’re gonna get a lot of violence, whether it's Italian, Armenian, or any community…”

• Systemic Failures & Coping Solutions (21:21–24:19)

  • Consideration of entrenched poverty and crime in places like Baltimore.
  • Joe: “All those people in that community, if they had been born and raised with different families in a different place, completely different outcome. A giant percentage of who you are is dumb luck.”

• National Guard, Policing, and Precedents (24:19–26:46)

  • Talks about the use of the National Guard in cities and historical precedents (like integration in the South).
  • Brian: “You have to be a big fucking reason to break that separation [between army and civilians].”

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5. Critique of Media & Political Class

• Legacy Media vs. Podcasts & Public Distrust (28:06–32:14)

  • Discussion of the decline of trust in mainstream media, the New York Times app, the “bubble,” and how podcasts win the audience.
  • Brian: “You can’t proclaim yourself to be intellectual by only listening to one perspective…”

• Political System, Corruption, and Lack of Reform (37:41–44:14)

  • Exposes bipartisan patterns of politicians profiting from insider trading and being unaccountable.
  • Joe on Singapore’s solution: “If you’re a politician in Singapore, you get a huge salary, but you are not to ever be corrupt.”
  • Brian: “If you catch them corrupt, you gotta shoot them in front of everybody... That's the only way you're gonna stop it.”

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6. Guns, Freedom, Technology, and the Threat of AI

• American Tolerance for Chaos & Guns (44:54–46:03)

  • They discuss American attitudes on personal freedom, guns, and the Second Amendment.
  • Joe: “Tolerating chaos allows you to have the guns...”

• UAPs and Military Tech (45:49–47:12)

  • Brief, wild detour into speculation about UFOs and instantaneous nuke delivery.
  • Brian: “The first thing [the US] tried to do [with UFOs] was use it as a method of delivering a nuclear bomb.”

• AI Anxiety, Social Upheaval, and Fake Media (64:08–76:28)

  • Concerns over AI music, video, universal basic income, and the erosion of traditional skills.
  • Joe expresses deep unease: “But when I see the [AI] video, I get the heebie jeebies...”

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7. Social Change, Gender, and Population Decline

• Freedom of Speech, Overregulation, and Social Engineering (91:59–92:52)

  • Discuss the difference between US and Australian freedom of speech and gun rights.
  • Joe: “We don't love freedom the way Americans love freedom.... People seem really calm about that.”

• Birthrates and Cultural Trends (92:52–94:49)

  • Declining birthrates in Japan, South Korea, and among the global middle class; ties to feminism and changing relationship norms.
  • Brian: “I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not having kids...you can have a full and fulfilling life.”

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8. Food, Health, and Societal Decline

• US Food Supply vs. Traditional Diets (109:08–113:41)
  • Dissects the negative health impacts of US industrial agriculture, gluten intolerance, and chemical additives in bread and meat.
  • “About 200 years ago, we started stripping the bran and germ...to make flour shelf stable, [now] nutritionally dead.” [113:00]
  • Joe expresses a yearning for simpler, organic lifestyles, “I yearn to live like a poor person…”

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9. Religion, Ritual, and Societal Cohesion

• Catholicism, Ritual, and the Power of Religious Art (134:35–140:08)
  • In-depth on what drew McCann to Catholicism, comparing megachurches and the ancient Latin Mass.
  • Joe: "You go into this place, and this place is insane...it feels like God’s house when you’re in."
• Pedophilia Scandals, Historical Context, and Commentary (141:07–145:02)
  • A nuanced, occasionally dark framing of the Catholic Church's abuse scandals within the broader context of historic and present sexual abuse in society.
  • “It introduces the standard by which you can go, it's wrong to be a pedophile,” [142:36]

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10. Trans Issues, Culture Wars, and Social Media Influence

• Changing Attitudes, Media Bans, and Social Media Manipulation (147:21–153:44)
  • Discussion of the rise and fall of youth transitioning numbers and the impact of social media policies.
  • Brian: “Post 2024 numbers have dropped off a cliff...You literally wrote on Twitter that a male could never be a female, you'd be banned.”
  • Explores foreign influence and bots on US social discourse.

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11. Political Polarization, Coalitions, and Power

• Fractures on the Right, Conservative Coalition Breakdown (156:01–159:55)

  • Rogan and McCann analyze the current chaos on the American right, its diverse constituencies, and the inability to sustain a unified movement post-Trump.
  • Joe: “Unless there’s a unifying figure, their natural thing is to fight with each other...the end of the Trump era.”

• Epstein Files, Scandals, and Distrust in the System (161:42–167:10)

  • Jamie updates on the release of new Epstein documents, failed redactions, and government messaging.
  • Joe: “But don’t make it look like you’re covering up...Just release it.”

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12. On Castrati, The Weirdness of History, & Irreverent Farewells

• Castrati (male singers castrated before puberty to keep high voices) become a bizarre closing subject, with McCann and the crew debating the odd enthusiasm for the phenomenon in Italian history, the mechanics, and the “lust for strangeness” in culture and art.
• [Joe, joking on the lasting desire for castrati:] “Why can’t we, if we’re going to have all the trans kids, doesn’t one of them go identify as a castrati?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the death of the mammoth/mastodon:

  “There’s two theories. One, people killed them all…[or] a cataclysm. It killed so many different animals almost instantaneously.”
  — Brian Callan [01:26]

• On media echo chambers:

  “You can’t proclaim yourself to be intellectual by only listening to one perspective…”
  — Brian Callan [28:49]

• On modern poverty and crime:

  “A giant percentage of who you are is dumb luck. And if the people that got the worst luck to be born in a crack house…you're not going to do anything but what everybody else is doing.”
  — Joe Rogan [21:39]

• On corruption in politics:

  “If the politician is bad, you could shoot him…that’s the only way you’re gonna stop it. It would have to be a totalitarian dictatorship.”
  — Brian Callan [42:29]

• On American exceptionalism:

  “We have guns. That’s part of it, I think—heavily armed country.”
  — Brian Callan [45:02]

• On AI anxiety:

  “But when I see the [AI] video, I feel like I get the heebie jeebies…”
  — Joe Rogan [80:11]

• On the Catholic Church and ritual:

  “You go to this place…and this place is insane. It feels like God’s house when you’re in.”
  — Brian Callan [139:18]

• On the fracture of the American right:

  “Unless there’s a unifying…figure, their natural thing is to fight with each other. And that’s what’s happening now…It’s the end of the Trump era.”
  — Joe Rogan [158:29]

• On the absurdity of historical castrati:

  “Why can’t we, if we’re going to have all the trans kids, doesn’t one of them go identify as a castrati? Couldn’t one do it?”
  — Joe Rogan [177:43]

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Important Segments (Timestamps)

• 00:24–01:19: Mammoth/mastodon and ancient extinction debate
• 03:04–04:28: Comparisons between sciences/comedy and resistance to the new
• 14:00–17:51: Poverty, crime, and societal solutions
• 21:21–24:19: Entrenched criminality and failed interventions
• 28:06–32:14: Lamenting the decline of media trust
• 37:41–44:14: Widespread corruption among politicians
• 64:08–80:28: AI, technological change, and discomfort
• 134:35–140:08: Religious ritual, Catholicism, and the power of awe
• 156:01–159:55: The collapse of coalitions on the American right
• 161:42–167:10: Epstein files, government redactions, and institutional trust
• 174:02–178:08: Castrati, Italian music history, and the wildness of human customs

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is classic Joe Rogan Experience: sprawling, provocative, and packed with humor about humanity’s oddities and contradictions. The tone is equal parts skeptical, curious, and amused—briskly jumping between heavy topics (political corruption, societal decline, existential threats) and irreverent banter (prop comedians, penis cones, castrati). Rogan, McCann, and Callan approach entrenched issues without easy answers, never shying from controversy or dark jokes—yet underlying it all is a steady call for curiosity, honesty, and humility in the face of change.

Whether riffing on the failings of media and politics, or the implacable rise of AI, the episode captures a sense of cultural, societal, and existential crossroads.

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For listeners seeking a particular subject, use the timestamps above to jump to key moments and themes. The episode is wide-ranging, unscripted, and characteristically Rogan in spirit—diving into the comic, the cosmic, and the deeply human.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[Brian Callan]

Haven't been a lot. That's good.

[Joe Rogan]

We started. Are we going?

[Brian Callan]

We're start.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh no, not over the relics.

[Brian Callan]

The dirty dirtier this table is the better.

[Joe Rogan]

Get it away from the. What is that?

[Brian Callan]

The relics. That is. That's from my friend John Reeves. He gave that to me. That's a mastodon tooth or woolly mammoth or. What's the difference? What is the difference between woolly mammoth and a mastodon? There must be a different one. Is age a different era? But that's a giant tooth that. There's a company in Alaska. I forgot the name but they. It kind of seems to carve into this thing because it is 10,000 years old at least.

[Joe Rogan]

How many of them are there though? Do they have heaps of them?

[Brian Callan]

They have heaps of them.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh that's.

[Brian Callan]

But this is really cool. It's like they carved a. A mammoth in it. So what is the difference? According to our sponsor Perplexity, a woolly mammoth and a mastodon were related but quite different ice age element. Elephants, mammoths were taller, more slightly built grass eaters while mastodons were shorter, stockier browsers that ate woody plants. Okay.

[Jamie]

I was going to say the hair maybe, but I don't.

[Brian Callan]

It's obviously more woolly mammoth, right? Yeah. Mastodon looks like an elephant.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the mastodon horn does look cooler.

[Brian Callan]

They're pretty cool. They're all pretty cool. You know they lived on an. Was it. Where were the last mastodons? I want to think, I want to say they lived on an island until like 10000 years ago or something like that because most of them died out. They don't, they don't know how they died out. But the. There's two theories. One, one theory is people killed them all, which is a theory cuz it's people of 10,000 years ago with sticks.

[Joe Rogan]

Were they around 10,000 years ago?

[Brian Callan]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They.

[Joe Rogan]

We definitely did that then.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think so. I think it was a cataclysm. I think it was the same thing that killed 65% of all mega fauna. That's the problem. It killed so many different animals almost instantaneously. Yeah, that's it. 4,000 years ago Wrangle island, remote Arctic island off Siberia's coast had the last woolly mammoth till about 4,000 years ago. And that.

[Joe Rogan]

That's nothing.

[Brian Callan]

That's nuts. Yeah, that's like before the pyramids were built.

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Brian Callan]

No, I mean after the pyramids are built.

[Joe Rogan]

Similar time.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, yeah. After the pyramids, allegedly. I think they're probably built earlier than that. But the Official date is 2,500.

[Joe Rogan]

Strange man with the beard. And which one that man you had on to debate it, who's always clapping back on Twitter and going like, there's nothing funny about the.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, flint devil.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't want to invoke his ire.

[Brian Callan]

I don't want a lot of ire.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got a lot of time and.

[Brian Callan]

A lot of hate. I actually enjoyed talking to him about non archaeology, non, you know, ancient history related stuff. He has some interesting things about seeds. Like, he does a lot of work in seeds.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Brian Callan]

No, it's. It's actually really interesting how, like the history of seeds. Yeah. When. So say if you have a wild plant, they can tell the difference between a wild plant and an agriculturally grown plant.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And the way is the seeds change. So when you have a wild seed, it is more conducive to the growth of the plant if the seeds break off easier and scatter and they get into the ground easier, so they break free of the plant. But then when you use agriculture, the seeds don't become important for the creation of new plants because you're always taking the seeds anyway and planting the seeds. Right. So those seeds are more robust and they hang on more.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

So you could. You could tell by looking at the actual seeds themselves whether it's an agriculturally based seed or whether it's a wild seed.

[Joe Rogan]

That is good. I hadn't thought about that.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it's. It was really cool. That part was cool. The shittiness is not cool. And calling Graham Hancock a racist. They do that with like, everyone. Everyone who has anything to say about the historical narrative that doesn't fit into exactly what they're teaching or what they have been teaching. They're, like, so unwilling to accept that there's any alternative timeline. But they keep getting. Because over and over again they keep finding these new things that are older and older. Yeah. Like was the big one. It happens in every discipline.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. I mean, it happens in comedy. There's people that don't like new comedians that are coming up. They don't like what they're doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Differently thing last night about prop comedy.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, everyone just stopped doing prop comedy at a certain point.

[Brian Callan]

Well, it's because of Carrot Top.

[Joe Rogan]

It's because of Carrot Top. And also because the bullying you would receive right at the Moment for having props. There's one Rick Glassman. Am I getting his name right? I don't know. But he had some props and he was really funny and he got away with it. But he's the only person in America other than Carrot Top I've seen with any props.

[Brian Callan]

Well, when I started out, there was a bunch of guys who had props. There was a. There was a bunch of guys who had props and it was fun. It was fun to watch. There was God, Dr. Wid. I forget his name. Dr. Wiz. I forget his name. But he was a guy when I first started out in like the 1980s. He had props and he was good. He was funny, comic.

[Joe Rogan]

It'll be cyclical. It'll come back. Like ladies with ukuleles had to go away for a time. It was necessary that we purge ukulele women from comedy.

[Brian Callan]

How many were there?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God, I don't know. There was. Is this him?

[Brian Callan]

Dr.

[Jamie]

The legendary wid.

[Brian Callan]

That's it. Legendary wid. Yeah, that's the dude. And he would do like science based humor. He was a funny guy. So this is, you know, I saw him in like 88. 88, 89. But the point was, that guy was really funny when he started busting out the props.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And. And we were like. I was like, why don't you just do props?

[Joe Rogan]

This is your thing.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, like that kind of humor. His kind of humor. It's almost like it's missing something in just the. Just a straight stand up for him.

[Joe Rogan]

There's like. There's waves of things become trendy and then people who can't really do it very well jump onto it and then it gets lame and people stop doing it.

[Brian Callan]

Well, a lot of it is one guy gets really successful doing it and then that becomes his thing.

[Joe Rogan]

We had a run of people pretending to be retarded in Australia.

[Brian Callan]

It was like, how hard did they try?

[Joe Rogan]

Really hard.

[Brian Callan]

Were they on the border? They just like slowed it down a little.

[Joe Rogan]

Weird sweaters, people having, like fireworks that they would fire into themselves. And everyone would, like, come out with cards and read their actual.

[Brian Callan]

That's what happens when you take away everyone's guns.

[Joe Rogan]

They're trying to take them away again.

[Brian Callan]

Again, again.

[Joe Rogan]

They already took them all away. And then somehow we still had a massive shooting and now the response is, well, maybe we could take even more of them away.

[Brian Callan]

What was the nationality of the people that caused the shooting?

[Joe Rogan]

The son, I think, was born in Australia and the dad. There was a big fight over it on Twitter where people Were going, he's Pakistani.

[Brian Callan]

I remember that. But I didn't. I don't anymore. I don't anymore. I don't get in there.

[Joe Rogan]

The big argument was over the religion of the hero who took one of the guns away. So, like, the cops were apparently cowering. That's the narrative. I don't know. But one guy ran up, and it's a great video of a guy. Like, he runs at a guy with a gun and wrestles the gun off him and aims the gun at him. And he does let the guy get away. He doesn't want to kill him, which.

[Brian Callan]

Is kind of crazy. The guy just killed how many people?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, and then I think the guy gets a gun and goes on killing people. Yeah, but he's not a killer. This guy who wrestled the gun off him, he was just heroic.

[Brian Callan]

Gun in the head with the butt, like in the movies.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what I mean. I would never, ever run up to a man with a gun. I would have been out of there. But the argument was what religion was the guy who took the gun. Because people on the right really didn't want him to be a Muslim. They were like. It was a huge thing on X of people.

[Brian Callan]

People on the right didn't want him.

[Joe Rogan]

To be because it was Muslim shooters. But then it looked like he was. His name was like Ahmed Al Ahmed or something.

[Brian Callan]

But hold on. Why would the people on the right not want him to be a Muslim?

[Joe Rogan]

Because then you can go, this is a Muslim thing. Muslims were doing the shooting. And we can just go, let's deal with the Muslims.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, you mean the people. The guy who captured the guy, the.

[Joe Rogan]

Guy who wrestled the gun off him was also a Muslim, which then makes it like.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, heroic.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. Well, his name is like Muhammad. Muhammad.

[Brian Callan]

Imagine being a regular Muslim and having to deal with these crazy. There he is, that guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, People love him.

[Brian Callan]

But my man, shoot the guy in the foot if he didn't want to kill him. Shoot him and blow.

[Joe Rogan]

His mind can really do that. And then it's a big.

[Brian Callan]

Look at him go, oh, that's amazing. And he doesn't do anything.

[Joe Rogan]

He doesn't.

[Brian Callan]

So the guy just gets away.

[Joe Rogan]

The guy does get away.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, this is not good.

[Joe Rogan]

But then after he lets him get away, I think he drops the gun and he goes away. And then he gets shot again in the arm. Who knows what to do when there's a live.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, you don't know what to do. Well, that's a good person. That's a good person.

[Joe Rogan]

He is a national hero at the moment. And I think if he had man, people wanted him to be a Maronite Christian so bad. The groipers were desperate for him to be. There was a lot of people going.

[Brian Callan]

Well, actually, you know, that's the real problem we have in this country. We want to pretend that people actually exist in groups. If there's high percentages of people from groups that are doing bad things, this, there's still a giant percentage that are not. And to alienate all those people by just lumping it all in as one group together. Imagine like, imagine you're a peaceful Muslim and you have to deal with this and you're like, guys, I just want to pray. I'm just trying to like, find oneness with God. That's all I'm trying to do.

[Joe Rogan]

I love twirling. Yeah, I'm one of the twirling ones.

[Brian Callan]

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[Joe Rogan]

So good. So good.

[Brian Callan]

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[Joe Rogan]

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[Brian Callan]

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[Joe Rogan]

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[Brian Callan]

What's a twirling?

[Joe Rogan]

The twirling dervishes, they just love twirling.

[Brian Callan]

They love to twirl, but the twirling. I was trying to figure out what you were talking.

[Joe Rogan]

Twirling. But this is what's weird. So after that, the government comes out and is like cracking down on right wing extremism because it's a lefty government. And they go, we have a. Clearly, we have a problem with right wing extremism. So now they're trying to reclassify like, you know, globalized infantata jihadism as a form of right wing extremism. Which I'd never. Which like. Yeah, well, you. Not commie lefty stuff.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you have to look at it on paper objectively. It is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but I don't know how much they hang out. I don't know if these guys, I don't think these guys are reading like, I don't know, William F. Buckley, Jr. Let's break down.

[Brian Callan]

What is right wing then? Okay, let's say this, okay? Do they want to completely control women's behavior and completely dictate whether or not the woman can leave the house with certain clothes on? What they're allowed to do, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

That's kind of a right wing thing, isn't it?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

Total religious adherence. They want a religious state.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but the Taliban want to dance with little boys.

[Brian Callan]

That seems like a left wing, separate breakoff group. They're like the Baptists. They're like the Catholics. You know what I mean? You got your regular Christians and then you got some other that are out there running wild with Mormons. How about this?

[Joe Rogan]

What are Mormons?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, you know, but that's what I'm saying. It's like their breakoff group. It's not the ones who are banging the boys. That's not normal. There's a lot of guys out there that are Muslim that are not banging boys. So when you connect them with the Taliban, they're like, bro, I'm just praying over here.

[Joe Rogan]

It's all people just trying to have fun.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Who am I to judge anybody?

[Brian Callan]

The problem is then you push. When you push these people, it's the same thing that happens. You call everyone a racist. What do you get? You get a Nick Fuentes. You get a guy who emerges, he's got the balls to shit talk and have Fun and say wild things that are very inappropriate and sometimes racist. That's what you get. You get. Someone embraces that guy. Because you've been told you're a racist just for being white.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

You know, you've been told there's something wrong with you. White male. Like, there was a time where someone would say something in comments all the time, and I'd watch these people arguing and someone. It was a common thing to say. As a white man, I think you should probably shut your fucking mouth. Like, as a white man. Like, you're a white man. You're disqualified from having an opinion on something because you are a white man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

So another form of racism. It's just an accepted form of racism. That's really weird.

[Joe Rogan]

But then you, like. Nick Fuentes is getting all his other ideas through as well, because he was the only person saying things that the average person would think was kind of normal. Well, I've been thinking about this a.

[Brian Callan]

Lot, but then he wasn't. A lot of the stuff he's saying was not something the average person would think.

[Joe Rogan]

But you sneak your other weird stuff through. Like when everyone's going.

[Brian Callan]

Right, right, right.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, like when he says when he's getting attacked for going, like, a black neighborhood is gonna be more violent on average in America, you go, yes, I've traveled around the country. And that is. I think there's a long history for why that's true.

[Brian Callan]

Well, it's factually correct.

[Joe Rogan]

That seems to be correct.

[Brian Callan]

The question is, though, why? And that's where it gets uncomfortable.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Because the real reason for why is a host of factors, but the primary one is crime and poverty. The primary one is they live in a community that's filled with crime and poverty.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

And if you have. And drugs, and if you have a community where people are selling drug. Drugs and it's crime and poverty, you're going to get a lot of violence, whether it's an Italian community, Armenian community, or any community where you got a lot of crime and a lot of poverty.

[Joe Rogan]

I first came here, I went to Appalachia.

[Brian Callan]

People are going to get killed.

[Joe Rogan]

There are white people doing crazy, crazy things.

[Brian Callan]

You ever see the Wild Wonderful Whites?

[Joe Rogan]

I watched it, like, a week ago. The most charismatic family I've ever seen.

[Brian Callan]

Knoxville did that, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, bro, that.

[Joe Rogan]

It made me feel so homesick. Look, I. I was only there for a couple months. I wanted to go back so bad.

[Brian Callan]

The Dance and Outlaw, his.

[Joe Rogan]

One of the, like, granddaddy had a new way of dancing. And it's the most insane. Like, was that really going to take off? Was that the style of bro?

[Brian Callan]

When you're on meth, it's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, meth, the perfect dance style. They were.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, they were on everything.

[Joe Rogan]

They were on the lot.

[Brian Callan]

How about the lady? I'm always been thought of as a sexy one. She was a stripper. Remember her? The voice?

[Joe Rogan]

I did a big deep dive on Wikipedia about them. Afterwards. She stumped a kitten.

[Brian Callan]

Which one's dancing here?

[Jamie]

This is Jesco, American Owl, Jessica.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Brian Callan]

He's the younger guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He's just go. Lives out the legacy.

[Brian Callan]

Excuse me.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. He's like. He keeps the dancing alive. He's the one who's a celebrity in the show.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But then there's another documentary about him. And in both documentaries, he complains about a woman making his eggs wrong.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, that's that dude. Yeah, he's got it.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a charismatic guy.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, he. He said he would cut her if she gave him ruddy eggs.

[Joe Rogan]

I was like, sloppy eggs.

[Brian Callan]

Settle down, bro. Like, maybe we shouldn't be celebrating this, but I think.

[Joe Rogan]

I think one of them just got out of prison. I think the one who. At the start of that document.

[Brian Callan]

I hope Trump got him out. Who got out? What'd he do?

[Joe Rogan]

The one who shot his uncle.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think he just got. That's the sexy one.

[Brian Callan]

I've always been the sexiest one in the family. Listen to what she said. The way she says it, though, the voice is incredible.

[Jamie]

Just pictures.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I think that sexy one. I think she did get in trouble for stepping on a cat.

[Brian Callan]

Well, there was a thing in that film that was interesting, though, towards the end where you see, like, some of them are trying to, like, move away from that life.

[Joe Rogan]

That girl.

[Brian Callan]

One girl got sober. So there was like a take to it where they realized, like, hey, this is not sustainable. This is a crazy way to live. I'm a mother. Like, what am I doing? You know? And she was trying to get out of it, which I think a lot of people do come to the realization, if you're in that kind of a community, I gotta get the fuck away from these crazy assholes and stop doing meth.

[Joe Rogan]

It is. Yeah, I think, but it's.

[Brian Callan]

How do you do it? See, this is the thing. This is the thing. When you say, like, is it true that there's a higher percentage of murders that occur in black communities? Right, right. But as opposed to poor communities? Like, what about, like, in deeply impoverished communities? Like, and then when you introduce a history of gang violence and crime, and no one ever does anything to stop it. It's gonna stay the same whether it's in Appalachia or whether it's the hatfields and the McCoys, all those motherfuckers that were killing each other back in the Wild west days. I mean, it was probably horrible back then. Why? Because they let it be that way. Nobody did anything about it. You couldn't stop them.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think some of the solutions for it are very bad. This is my. I don't want to speak out of turn because it's not my country. But like, when I've been driving through.

[Brian Callan]

People love to come to America and tell us what to do. I love it.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's the greatest country in the world. And I repeat that again.

[Brian Callan]

Me too.

[Joe Rogan]

When I drive through, like a bad area and there's like a Planned Parenthood with a line around the block and things set on fire and you can just like. I know that Planned Parenthood started out as a eugenicist organization where they went like. That was the lady who founded it. That was her thing. And you can really see in those neighborhoods, it's like, if you have a child here, you're gonna be tied to this community. We want you to get out. We want people who have the spirit to get out of here and to live a good full life in America not to be tied down to being in like a really difficult, crime riddled area.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So abort your children so you can get out. Seems to be the. I think they're still doing the eugenicist thing of being like, just be free. For different reasons. Not cause they wanna dilute the numbers in the population or whatever, but because they go, you've gotta be a free can leave. And children will tie you to a place.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. That's a way to look at it.

[Joe Rogan]

That was when I was driving through. I forget Wisconsin. Northern Wisconsin. I don't know, I just hit with this. Oh, man. It's like. Usually the rough area of a town is lifted up by a freeway in America. Like, you don't. If you drive into Chicago, you're just way up here on a freeway. And then you come down into like the most beautiful buildings you've ever seen in your life. And people go, it's very scary over in the other part of Chicago. And you go, I never saw it.

[Brian Callan]

I was above it.

[Joe Rogan]

I was 30ft in the air.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But in some places I have driven through it and I've gone. Or I stopped and you Go. This someone's like, if I lived here. I mean, there are some areas that are so rough, it's like, man, if I lived here, I would go and steal and kill from the people who live 20 minutes up the road. For sure. You know, like, you just drive 20 minutes up the road and there's a German town and everything's perfect and everyone's rich and everyone's beautiful.

[Brian Callan]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

And you. This doesn't happen in, I don't know, I'm from a very flat country. By comparison, the highs and lows here are incredible.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, the highs and lows of what?

[Joe Rogan]

America.

[Brian Callan]

You mean poverty and wealth?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Okay, like.

[Joe Rogan]

Like the Bronx being an hour from the Hamptons.

[Brian Callan]

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[Joe Rogan]

And you.

[Brian Callan]

All of it's real close. I used to say that, like, when I lived in la, I was like, you know, people like, this is a good neighborhood. I go, right? But, you know, people from a bad neighborhood can just come into your good neighborhood. You know about all that, right? When people are like, why do you have dogs? Why do you have guns? I was like, what? Like, do you watch the news?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Are you fucking crazy? Like, you got to be careful out there. And most of the time it's not going to happen to you. The 99.99% of people will never experience anything awful. But to not have any idea that it could ever happen to you is bad. I think the real problem, and this is the one that just doesn't get addressed with any politicians ever is something massive has to be done to stop this like ancestral, like this lineage of people that are coming from these crime ridden places and no one changes anything about it at all. We had a cop on once from Baltimore and he was telling us that while he was on duty he found this like crime sheet, a doc sheet of all the things that happened in like 76 or something like that. And he was reading all the areas and all the crimes and it was dawned on him. It's like, oh my God, like this is the same crimes in the same area decades later and nothing has changed. They need to do something huge like treat that as if it's an untapped resource of human potential. Because that's what it is. All those people in that community, if they had been born and raised with different families in a different place, completely different outcome. A giant percentage of who you are is dumb luck. And if the people that got the worst luck to be born in a crack house or be born in a place where there's gang violence on the street every day and you go to school and you have to pick a gang, if you don't pick a gang to fucking kill you, like what are you going to do? Like you're not going to do anything but what everybody else is doing. That's what most people are going to do. The few that are going to break out, maybe they're musicians or an athlete or something like that, they break out. Yeah, but for the most part you're fucked. But what it is is untapped and unrealized human potential that's going to waste on the most stupid fucking shit in the world.

[Joe Rogan]

I. But then when you try and do something like that in America, the pushback is huge.

[Brian Callan]

Like I think what is the pushback of investing into communities?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I would say like in a small, like I think the National Guard going into some places.

[Brian Callan]

Okay, that's different.

[Joe Rogan]

So that's, that's what, that's what it can look like sometimes.

[Brian Callan]

That's what it can look like under this administration.

[Joe Rogan]

Portland. Yeah. There's got to be a better way of doing it.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that's, you're just going to get too much pushback. But what you can't do is let it get to the point where it's feasible to call in the National Guard.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

That's what's crazy. It's like their law enforcement has been so handcuffed by the administrations, especially in northwestern United States. Everybody. They don't get enough sun. They lost their fucking mind. Everyone's depressed and everyone's trans. It's crazy up there. It's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I was just in Portland. I was in Portland just before the National Guard went in. And I was in Portland.

[Brian Callan]

Like, how insane.

[Joe Rogan]

It's so much. You can walk around a little after the nascar. I will say, like, I know people were very upset in Portland about that, but I think just quietly, they were going, it's kind of nice.

[Brian Callan]

How about the mayor.

[Joe Rogan]

The train station again?

[Brian Callan]

The mayor in D.C. thanked Trump.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

She's like, this is like the safest it's ever been here since you brought in the National Guard. Look. But the problem is that sets a fucking precedent. So here's the thing. If it's necessary, let's say you have a place that's a literal, not even a real place, a fictional place in America where there's a literal gang war going on and dozens of people are getting shot every day. And it's basically a war zone. Let's just imagine a place like that. You would say, okay, it's probably a good idea to bring in the military and control that because the entire population is at risk. It's very dangerous. It's a literal war zone in the middle of a modern American city. We have to stop that. Well, the thing is, if you people are lighting newspaper stands on fire, people are doing this. People are breaking into Starbucks. Let's bring in the military. People aren't obeying the speech laws. Let's bring in the military. People are not using their digital id. Let's bring in the military. It's like, there's gotta be a separation between our army and our civilians. And it has to be a big fucking reason to break that separation.

[Joe Rogan]

I think. I mean, you did it in the 60s in the south when, like, busing came.

[Brian Callan]

Don't say me.

[Joe Rogan]

Sorry, y'. All. The United States, when Jim Crow was happening in the south, the military got sent in and people. You. You desegregated the south by force, Right? So that was deemed to be, like, an appropriate use of, like, a monopoly on violence to enact a social change. Like, you're not gonna have segregated schools anymore. We're gonna have the military there and make sure that this works out.

[Brian Callan]

Crazy. You have to bring in that the military to get people to allow black people and white people to go to school together.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, yeah, they didn't want. Well, it's just so weird when I go to the south now because everyone is so friendly and people do seem to get along. And you go, your grandparents were like.

[Brian Callan]

Brother had to rip them down.

[Joe Rogan]

Doing the craziest stuff. Well, it's terrible. I mean, the Emmett Till, I just found out about that after I got here. It's unbelievable. And they were still shooting the Emmett Till statue that they put up. They had to like replace it with a bronze statue so the bullet holes wouldn't affect.

[Brian Callan]

That's what was going on.

[Joe Rogan]

I believe that was what was happening.

[Brian Callan]

Until I wasn't just one KKK dude.

[Joe Rogan]

That may have been one dude, you.

[Brian Callan]

Know, I'm saying that's the problem. You get one wacky guy in a neighborhood and you know that's a racist neighborhood. They were shooting the Emmett Till statue, mean, about one asshole tire shop. You know, one fucking dude smelling his own farts and loading up his rifle.

[Joe Rogan]

That one Arkansas MMA fighter who kept saying that he loved Hitler did, Did a lot, did a lot to hurt the reputation of that football team because he always had the Razorbacks in the background.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, that wasn't a. I think he did not phrase that well. I think there's a lot of people. Here's the thing, there's a lot of people that become experts, and I'm guilty of this as well, by you're talking about something where you maybe watched a YouTube video. You know what I mean? Like, maybe you read an article about it, it's some fucking politico. Who knows? Who knows where you read it, it could be some crazy right wing source. You read something, you took it as fact, and then you talk to a bunch of other people that also take it as fact. And next thing you know, you start talking and you have the biggest show in the world saying, shit, yeah, that's me.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, but people always criticize that. People always have a go at the podcasters for like spouting off on things that they're not.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, that is what I do.

[Joe Rogan]

But how come there's no responsibility on the mainstream legacy media for having gotten really, really boring over the last. Not just 15, 20 years. Boring is, I would say, lying as well. Compromise.

[Brian Callan]

Completely compromised. Totally untrustworthy. Completely compromised.

[Joe Rogan]

I just got the New York Times app. Cause I thought, I'll have a look at that. I finally got enough money where I can pay a dollar a week to be on the New York Times app. Yeah, and it's so. I mean, they've built Twitter. Like, the experience of it and the scrolling on it. It feels like you're in Twitter, but only mediated through selected journalists from the New York Times. And suddenly you're like, I'm just stepping into for a moment, whatever bubble that is. I wanted to take a look at it.

[Brian Callan]

It's like, I think they're all gonna have to. Course. Correct. I think they're all gonna have to realize they. It's not being intellectual like a true intellectual, a true progressive, by only looking at things from one perspective. And to automatically assume that anybody that has a different perspective. Hey, we're back.

[Joe Rogan]

There we go.

[Brian Callan]

Where was I?

[Joe Rogan]

So they need to have a course correction. We're talking about the mainstream media and that they've lost that many people.

[Brian Callan]

That's what I'm saying was that you can't proclaim yourself to be intellectual by only listening to one perspective and to being very aggressive and hostile about the other perspective. Immediate ad hominems, immediate attacks on, you know, lumping everyone in together, associated. Like we were talking about earlier, associating ancient history with racism. Like, you're doing that. It's a little trick you're doing. You're not having a real conversation. You're being a bitch. And this kind of communication sucks. It sucks for the left, it sucks for the right. When people on the right. It sucks for. It's a bad human communication skill. If you were good at it, you would want other people to have different opinions, and you'd want to hear those opinions and talk to those people.

[Joe Rogan]

I think they're trying to. Course. Correct. This is what's weird to watch, is there? And it's who they're. I don't want to. They. They love Schultz at the New York Times.

[Brian Callan]

Well, he goes over there.

[Joe Rogan]

They've picked him. Yes, they've picked him.

[Brian Callan]

He goes over there and talks with them. Yeah, well, he's very smart.

[Joe Rogan]

They want him.

[Brian Callan]

Sure. And another. He's another guy's very smart and very fun, you know, so, like, they want these people because they've been kind of locked out of the fun.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, well, they also. They just pretended that it didn't exist.

[Brian Callan]

Do you see Schultz talk to them.

[Joe Rogan]

Though, when he talks on the round table? Yeah, yeah, it was great.

[Brian Callan]

It's hilarious because he. They're talking in these bullshit terms.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And he's like, hold on, you know, let's just talk real.

[Joe Rogan]

Here he goes, the Jews. And everybody laughs because he can't. Cause he's A comedian, he's allowed to be funny.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. And there's another one that he did with another guy. I forget from what other mainstream media publication it was the same sort of situation. And to have it that way, where it's a one on one conversation, then you get to see like the weird way that they actually think, communicate the bubble. Like when Tim Dillon was on cnn.

[Joe Rogan]

The CNN one, I was gonna say, that's why I moved my ring up. Because she kept asking this. She didn't want it. They resisted releasing that as a long form thing. And you can see why, because she's asking the same question three or four times in a row to try and bait something, which is not how a conversation works.

[Brian Callan]

We pressured them into putting the whole thing out.

[Joe Rogan]

She keeps going, really? Come on. Just to get him. Because he's a fun guy and he wants to say something funny and she's like baiting him to say something exaggerated.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Jon Stewart had the best response to this whole thing. He was talking to some guy from the New Yorker and they were talking about this podcast and he's like, you know, they were talking about different opinions and people, different people that I've talked to. And he's like, but Joe Rogan has the biggest audience in the world. He has a bigger audience. He's like, well, go get a big audience. Yeah, go get it.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not like they don't have the finances.

[Brian Callan]

You just go figure it out, do it right and you'll get a big audience. Like, it's not that fucking complicated. I don't have pyrotechnics. There's no cgi. There's not even a crew. There's a skeleton crew of people who do this.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think some of it is the. It's just like ivory tower mentality of if. If it becomes like that. They think there is a. There is a sense in people who have got like a very big education and have gone through the whatever system you have to jump through to get to an elite legacy. Thing is that most people are too stupid to have like an open and honest conversation with. And that if stupid people like you, then that's a problem. That's how they're viewing the world. And that there's like, well, there's.

[Brian Callan]

They're also viewing the world in that they're protecting people from opinions they don't agree with. Even though they listen to those opinions. It has no effect on their position. They keep the same position.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

But they're worried that people dumber than them It's a very condescending thought process.

[Joe Rogan]

To think that you're the only open minded person.

[Brian Callan]

Not only that and people that are dumber is that which is most people. You're going to fall into the trap of what this person's saying that I don't agree with. With.

[Joe Rogan]

And this. Yes.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And that if you. And that the only way to get people to listen to you is to like spin lies. Like, you can't just be honest. Which is what I think the podcasting thing is. It's what it is. It's a long. It's. You can't really put on a facade for three hours talking to somebody.

[Brian Callan]

Maybe you can.

[Joe Rogan]

I. I think that might be who he is at this point.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, he is definitely that. Well, that's why I wanted to do a podcast with him. So you could say three hours, by the way. No questions beforehand, no prep, didn't pee, sat there for three hours. He's almost 80. Like if he was wearing a diaper. Respect. But the guy just fucking hung out for three hours. Does that mean I agree with everything he does? Fuck no, of course not.

[Joe Rogan]

But he was able to be himself for three. He was able to talk for three hours, whereas Kamala wouldn't do it.

[Brian Callan]

Well, she could have done it. I'm telling you, man, I would have been fine.

[Joe Rogan]

Six minutes on Stephen Colbert and I don't think so.

[Brian Callan]

It's different. He's kind of being like an interviewer, right? He's in this weird position where he's at a desk. The desk is beside you for some reason because that's how they always used to do it. So these uncreative people just do it the exact same way always. It doesn't make any sense. Why does he have a desk? Is he writing? What does he have? Does he have pens in the drawer? Like, what are we doing here? Like, why am I on a couch over here? Why am I sitting down, like to the right of you? It's weird. It's always in the same position. Host is always to the right. Yeah, they're always to the left of the screen. It's goofy, right? So he's doing this thing that you only do on television in front of an audience, by the way. Should never have a conversation in front of an audience because as soon as you do, the people are aware of the audience. Yeah, you're aware of how people think and feel and you're playing to them. And some people say things to try to get a rise out of you in front of the audience. Like, yeah, if you want to do that, it's a different thing. But if you're going to have like a really important conversation with someone, you don't want to do it in a fucking audience. So Stephen, the way he's doing his handicap from the jump. Also, you only have seven minutes before you have to cut for commercial or whatever it is. You can't do that. It'll take me seven minutes to ask what she likes to cook. I wanna know what she. Who she. I don't know. I wanna know. Is there anything that she regrets doing? What does she learn from this time? Is it more complicated being a vice president than you thought it was gonna be? Like, what is the web of trying to fix things and change things versus the people that are influencing you to make decisions? Cause we're not pretending that people don't spend a lot of money to influence your decision. So how much of an effect does it have?

[Joe Rogan]

What do you actually believe when they come to you asking for those favors? Right.

[Brian Callan]

What would be better? Could we take money out of politics? Would you be willing. What would we do if we completely eliminated corporate funding of any politicians? How would that change everything? Those are the kind of questions we could have. Like, we could have talked for hours about that.

[Joe Rogan]

But they don't. She doesn't want to do that. And the people around her. This is what I meant. There's like. There's something that has the right. Used to have this as well. And both sides of politics had it. And I remember there was like, Howard Dean, I think it was. Did a weird scream.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

At one time. And the whole thing fell apart. And that really stayed with me that I remember watching politics and there was some sense of like, everything is very manufactured and if you make a single mistake, oh my God, you're gonna lose the primary. It's all over. And Trump destroyed that with the Republicans where it all became very. We've just gotta like, hang out and talk. And everyone got very loosey goosey on the right.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And the Democrats have not adjusted to that and had their. Like, Bernie could do it. They just froze Bernie out and they did everything they could to stop him coming through.

[Brian Callan]

Right. Like Marjorie Taylor Greene. You could not have a person like that before Trump. That would. There's no way.

[Jamie]

Hi, it's Sam Reinhart from the Florida Panthers.

[Joe Rogan]

Watch as we take on the New.

[Jamie]

York Rangers in the 2026 Discover NHL.

[Joe Rogan]

Winter Classic in Miami.

[Jamie]

The NHL Winter Classic is coming to the Sunshine State.

[Joe Rogan]

Ring in the new year with me in Miami. Catch all the action on January 2nd.

[Jamie]

At 8:00pm Eastern on TNT and HBO Max.

[Joe Rogan]

That's January 2nd at 8:00pm on TNT and HBO Max.

[Jamie]

For tickets and more info, visit NHL.com.

[Brian Callan]

WinterClassic there's no way.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, you can't have her with. She's gone.

[Brian Callan]

She's gone now.

[Joe Rogan]

She's gone.

[Brian Callan]

But she wouldn't have existed without him. Like that sort of brash, crazy personality that had not existed in a congressperson.

[Joe Rogan]

And there will be someone on the left who can do that.

[Brian Callan]

Jasmine Crockett. She's doing that, man. Maybe she gets aggressive. She does loud, they get crazy. Listen, it's a reality show.

[Joe Rogan]

I know people don't like her. I think she's hip. She would maybe come on the show.

[Brian Callan]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you invited her to come on the show?

[Brian Callan]

No, listen, I'm too scared to have.

[Joe Rogan]

Me on the show.

[Brian Callan]

I think a lot of them.

[Joe Rogan]

She came up with wrong people.

[Brian Callan]

Very nice people. Very nice people. And this is not an attack on any individuals. I think that system turns you into a sociopath. That's what I think. And I think there's very few people. Tulsi Gabbard, my friend, being one of them. I love her. She's amazing. She's a real person. Like, that lady is the same person on air, off air, meeting people, hanging out with her husband. I've hung out with her hours and hours and hours. That's who she is. She's cool as fuck. And she was a congressperson, but she has horror stories. Yeah, when she tells you, like, what it's like on the inside. And when she. When you find out how these people are making hundreds of millions of dollars on $170,000 a year salary and no one's batting an eye, that is kind of kooky. That's. It's kind of kooky because even ones you wouldn't suspect, like, wait a minute, they're worth how much? Now, you don't really know how much they're worth. Right. You'd have to. You'd have to get an audit. Right? Because what you're hearing is a reporting of what they're worth. And it could be total propaganda. It could be half of what it is. But even if it's millions, even if it's a couple million, if you have. If you've been a congressperson for two years and now all of a sudden you're worth $3 million and you were in debt before you became a congressperson, that's suspicious. And if you look at the fucking the people that invest money. That's where it gets really crazy. Because it is not a blue thing and it's not a red thing. It's both. Everybody is making money on the stock market. There's a shitload of these people that are buying a bunch of stock. And then conveniently, a short time later, a bill gets passed that they were working on that makes it very profitable for that country. Stock shoots through the roof, they make a giant windfall.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm trying to remember who said it. There was some line that someone said about like, you can, you can sort of believe what you want in American politics and you'll get rich for it. Like, no matter what you actually believe, there's a group out there who are going to get you rich for having a belief in it. Sure, if it's the environmental people, if it's the fossil fuel people.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, there would be varying scales of it. But also you can fix this. Like there are ways to, to fix.

[Brian Callan]

The money in politics.

[Joe Rogan]

I've been reading a lot about Lee Kuan Yew.

[Brian Callan]

Who's that?

[Joe Rogan]

He was the sort of the dictator of Singapore. They might not like that because he won't go there. He won elections, but Singapore is like a single party state.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, so it's like when Putin wins.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't want to get in trouble with the people of Singapore.

[Brian Callan]

Listen.

[Joe Rogan]

But it is notable that one party wins every single time and they don't primary and they win almost all the seats and they are really popular. But he brought in like Canings and he got drugs out of the country and he started paying the politicians a lot. Like, if you're a politician in Singapore, you get a huge salary, but you are not to ever be corrupt. Like, you're meant to have enough money that they can't really buy you.

[Jamie]

Mmm.

[Joe Rogan]

And that might be the only way because if you have, you know, what are you. Were they earning 170,000 something dollars a year to be a congressperson? If they are making $3 million a year and the punishment for taking money from anybody else or from getting a stock, you know, maybe you can't own stocks, but we give you $3 million a year.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Then at least you can't be swayed. Like, you're taking a lot of tax money to do the job, but at least there's some insulation on someone being able to go, I want you to vote this way.

[Brian Callan]

I think if you have a totalitarian dictatorship, you could probably pull that off. Because if the politician is bad, you could shoot him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

The problem in America, if you have $3 million and, you know a guy who's got $50 million, you feel poor. Because we're retarded. All right? Brian Callan has a friend who's worth. I think he's worth $8 billion, and he feels broke because his friend is worth 30.

[Jamie]

I don't.

[Brian Callan]

No, no, no. For real?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

There's people that get that goofy.

[Joe Rogan]

I've seen it a couple times.

[Brian Callan]

So if you're in the business of trying to make money, which is what most politicians are, it's like they decided not to go into sales. They go into politics. They're trying to make as much money as they can while they're there. That's what most people are doing with most jobs. If you're doing that and you're just kind of a person who's drawn to that kind of a job, you're not going to be happy with your salary. If you find out that there's some NGO that you can invest in and you can start a nonprofit, and then it becomes a profit, and you can funnel money overseas. And then corporations that you buy into also can use the. You know, the laws that you're passing. You're going to do it anyway. They're going to do it anyway.

[Joe Rogan]

This is why Plato says they're not allowed to touch money.

[Brian Callan]

I cannot be corrupted. You'd have to kill them. If you catch them corrupt, you gotta shoot them in front of everybody. You gotta say, this is what happens when you steal from America. Boom. I'm not saying you should do that, but I'm saying that's the only way you're gonna stop it. It would have to be a totalitarian dictatorship. But then it brings us back to the thing about using the military in the cities. When do you draw the line? Yeah, when do you draw the line? Like, when? Like. Okay, what's hate speech? Right. So hate speech can mean a bunch of different things to different people. So as soon as you say, we can't permit hate speech, okay, well, then you can't permit freedom of speech because you're just defining hate by whatever. That's the same line when you bring the military into the cities. It's the same line. It's like you're doing something you shouldn't be able to do, and you're justifying doing it, saying, because this is a special case. The problem is, what if that gets solved, you're going to move further to the. Even more you've already got me to allow you to arrest. You can Arrest me for tweeting things. Okay, I've already said yes to that. So what else is next? Like, you're gonna. You're gonna keep going. If you make money, you want to go. Want to make more money. If you pass laws, you want to want to pass more laws.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

That's how you get numbers on the board. That's how you win this fucking game. You can't let them ever score.

[Joe Rogan]

Then you have to de game the system long term. If you're going to have a democracy, you have to have.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, you got to d game the system. But the problem is there's so much profit in it. And they get to vote on whether or not they can still do this insider trading thing. Right? Which is bananas. Like, who thinks we should still steal? Oh, can we have an anonymous vote?

[Joe Rogan]

You don't have this problem with an aristocracy. That's all I'm saying. Well, you finally go back to the padded wigs.

[Brian Callan]

There is a real. There's a terrible argument for that because you're just hoping that the person is a benevolent dictator. That's the best case scenario. You get a benevolent king. But how many of those have ever existed?

[Joe Rogan]

They've had so many beautiful, benevolent kings. We've got a benevolent king right now in my country.

[Brian Callan]

It's strange, right? It's like there's no right way to run people because no one really should be one. There's never a time where it makes sense where one person is the head dude of 350 million people. That is nuts. That is completely nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but you also, I mean, as a country, you have a great tolerance, I think, compared to other, like, western democracies, for letting there be some chaos.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, because we're. We have guns. That's part of it, I think heavily armed country.

[Joe Rogan]

Tolerating chaos allows you to have the guns, though. Like, if you didn't have the virtue of going, some people are going to get shot and we're going to be okay with that.

[Brian Callan]

Well, it's not just that. It's like, you know, it was written into the Constitution because we were rebelling, Right. We were rebelling from a dictatorship we had escaped. And when we had declared that this was a country, we were like, we gotta stay strapped because these motherfuckers might come back. And we all agreed to that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And then it got to a point where people go, okay, but they were talking about muskets. Now people have AR15s. Now people have, you know, switches. They could put on Glocks and it can fire Automatic like is a tactical.

[Joe Rogan]

Nuclear weapon defendant under the second amendment.

[Brian Callan]

You want to hear the scariest thing that I heard? This is a guy that was talking about the UAP program and the back engineering of flying saucers. Yeah, what do they call it? A simultaneous or a spontaneous, what was the word that he used for it?

[Jamie]

Instantaneous.

[Brian Callan]

Instantaneous. That these UFOs that they believe use some sort of a gravity, some sort of a propulsion system that's unknown to modern science, standard conventional science. And they can transport, literally transport, like going from place to place in space instantaneously. And so what did the United States government try to do? They tried to use it as a method of delivering a nuclear bomb. So an instantaneous nuclear payload delivery system. That's what they were calling flying saucers. The first thing they thought about doing with them was instantaneously deliver a nuke so no one could retaliate. And they didn't even see it coming. You would just have a flying saucer with a nuke appear at the Kremlin.

[Joe Rogan]

What's weird though, you guys had that capability for years.

[Brian Callan]

Allegedly.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I mean, I mean bomb. I mean when no one else had the nuclear bomb and when we didn't have good anti air programs and just America alone had nuclear weapons. Yeah, you could have at that point, you could have said we're in charge of the world now or everyone's dead.

[Brian Callan]

Well, there was a bunch of people that did. I mean, that's what Dr. Strange Love is all about, right?

[Joe Rogan]

You made movies about it and you talked about it, but you didn't do it. When the Suez crisis kicked off, I think Eisenhower was like, can we get a nuke in there? And people said no, Mr. President, bro.

[Brian Callan]

They came real close to nuking things three or four times.

[Joe Rogan]

What a beautiful thing that you held back.

[Brian Callan]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

No one else would've. I talk about this, I think about this a lot. That like if anyone else had discovered the nuclear weapon, that's it. You'd have global hegemony by one power.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I think that is one thing about America that most people will agree to is that we like to think of ourselves as being the best country in America. And that comes with responsibility. Being the greatest superpower comes with responsibility. That's why people get real uncomfortable about like drone bombing statistics and shit like that. They get real uncomfortable because it makes you really question like what, what we do. Yeah, when you, you know, when you tell people, did you know that like more than 80% of the people that die in drone bombings are civilians? Accidental Kills.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, so every time someone tries to be nice about Obama, then they have to go to drone bombings. It's a drone bomb. A lot of innocent people.

[Brian Callan]

I know, they always have to do that. You know, listen, I think we found out through Obama. Most likely what you find out through anybody that gets through there that's not Trump is that they immediately co opt you into the system. You had no idea how the system worked until you got in there. You were a senator for two years, and then all of a sudden you're a president. You had some amazing ideas and you're a great spokesperson and probably the best statesman we've ever had. Like the best representative of the best about America. A guy who is from a single mom, you know, grew up poor, didn't, you know, didn't have a silver spoon in his mouth. Forget about all the narratives of him being related somehow to the Bushes. There's a lot of that.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know that.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, there's like a whole conspiracy theory. But point is that what you got is a guy who was promoting hope and change, right? And that's what we were all really hoping was going to happen, but not. It was really kind of like another Bush term in terms of, like, foreign policy, in terms of a lot of things in terms of, like, the way America felt about America, though it was good. It was like, hey, racism has obviously, like, stopped being an issue to get you to be the President of the United States because a black man just won. And it's not saying that racism doesn't exist, but we're doing better than we used to do. This was not possible when Martin Luther King Jr. Was making his I have a Dream speech. But it is possible now. So we have progressed. And he's brilliant. So it's per. And he's. And he's like, well, measured and calm and peaceful. And he never calls reporters piggy. He never makes Mead tweets when his enemies die.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, like, so as a representative, I. It's gotten to the point where the Rob Reiner tweet just went up.

[Brian Callan]

It just like, it killed it for a lot of people. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that it? But like, no. I mean, I saw it. I was like, oh, yeah, of course he's mocking a dead man.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that guy tried to jail him for, you know, year. And this is not forgiving him for that.

[Joe Rogan]

This is not tried to jail.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, my God. There's a video of him working with intelligence agents. He was working with James Clapper. And who's the other guy? Clapper. And why? How come I can't remember that?

[Joe Rogan]

I just. I still think it's a good.

[Brian Callan]

But this is like a well produced 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

It was with McCain as well. I remember that they hated each other.

[Brian Callan]

I know. 100%. It's gross. It's a gross thing to mock a man after he's dead. It's just pointless. But the real problem is it's a bad look for America in general. Right. It's a mark of cruelty that ultimately could lead people to think differently about America and perhaps motivate attacks. That's a real thing. Like a kooky person. You can sway them either way by the vibe the country's giving off. And the President is giving off a vibe that, you know, his enemy. He's mocking the fact that his, you know, his enemy was obsessed with him. That's what led to his son going crazy and killing him.

[Joe Rogan]

I've had friends come over and visit me, and almost all of them have been scared to come. Like, people who haven't been to America.

[Brian Callan]

Before, they're scared to come to America.

[Joe Rogan]

People are very scared to come to America. Yeah, well, this is like not Honduran. This is just Australians who like, there's gun violence. It looks, if you just. If all you're seeing is the. The news, you go, well, civil war's right around the corner.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that's what they want us. And it's like, that's what they want.

[Joe Rogan]

People are way more interested in college football than killing each other in the street.

[Brian Callan]

Especially in Texas. Most people are way more interested in living their lives. The problem is when your life becomes that. The problem is when your life becomes a cause. When your life, whether it's a religious cause, you know, a jihadist cause, a right wing cause, a left wing cause, your life becomes a cause. You know, we have to stop oil now and you're gluing your hand to a painting. You know, there's a lot of nutty stupid that goes on with just being a human being, and it's all accelerated by social media.

[Joe Rogan]

But I find it heartening that people give a here that people know on some level, maybe they don't have like a good grasp of what's actually happening in the world. But there's a sense in America that people kind of know who their politicians are. They're across what the issues that they're being asked to vote on are. And this, like in Australia, the extent to which people have no idea what is going on and are so checked out and don't know any of it and are not, like, actively participating in democracy. You guys really care. Like people primary and they scrutinize people and they. There's some belief that you can still get involved in politics here. I really. It's like the most heartening thing about it is that. And that's the downside is if everybody cares, then you do get. You get people going off the deep end.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you just gotta keep it a fair game. And as long as you keep it a fair game, if you don't do a good job and that person gets into power, you fucked up. So now your team has to regroup and rebuild and come back again in four years. And that's what it's supposed to be.

[Joe Rogan]

And.

[Brian Callan]

But when you start trying to do things like moving all the illegals to specific states so that you get more congressional seats because of the census, and then you start giving them Social Security numbers and Medicaid and Medicare and you start rigging the system because you want to, like, bring in more voters and you're spending. And this is what they did. This is undeniable at this point.

[Joe Rogan]

Fetterman was copped to it. He was like, yeah, I saw him on you.

[Brian Callan]

It's undeniable what they did. And I get it. Like, you're playing a dirty game. They're playing a dirty game. And this is not a right or left thing. I remember that hacking democracy documentary that was on HBO back in the day. It was during the Bush administration. And this hacking democracy, they had tested these voting machines. And this is a long time ago, right? So this is like, what Was it like 2004, Jamie? What was that? Somewhere around then. So this. This was a much less sophisticated system that I'm sure that they're using today. But there was a third party input. For some reason, it had been set up so a third party can input data into the machine and change the votes. And they did it on tv. They did it on tv. They showed that they could do it easily and they affected the votes. So they showed. Back then, they were essentially saying that the Bush administration had rigged the vote and that's how they got Bush into office. And this company that made these machines was a big contributor to the Republican Party. So this shit has been going on on both sides.

[Joe Rogan]

But that was true. I mean, in 2000, that was true. Everybody thinks the JFK election, the film.

[Brian Callan]

Investigates, oh, for sure, the JFK election, the flawed integrity of the electronic voting money machines, particularly those made by Diebold election systems, exposing previously unknown backdoors in the Diebold trade secret computer software. The film culminates dramatically in the on camera hacking of the in use working Diebold election system in Leon County, Florida. The same computer voting system which has been used in actual American elections across 33 states and which still counts tens of millions of American votes today. Whoa. Today? Is that real? The same fucking machines?

[Jamie]

When it was written?

[Brian Callan]

I don't know. When did. When did this article come out?

[Jamie]

This is Wikipedia. I don't know.

[Brian Callan]

Usually up there, bro. That's crazy. If they're still using the same machines. That's.

[Joe Rogan]

But like.

[Brian Callan]

But that was a thing during Georgia, right. They were supposed to upgrade their machines, but they decided to wait until after the election to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

Why is there no pressure to make the elections feel more real?

[Brian Callan]

I think because they're both rigging it, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Because they're both rigging it. I don't think if neither of them was rigging it.

[Brian Callan]

They just want to win, man. And then call everybody conspiracy theorists. Both sides, by the way, this is not one side or the other. I think both sides are trying to do whatever the fuck they can.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think both sides rigging it. Okay. It's the same.

[Brian Callan]

Been used in business in the US since 2009. Well, this is about the Bush administration.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Die bold things. And what you're hearing about mail in ballots, that's about the left. It's like you're getting the same thing on both sides. One of the things that Rep. Luna said when she was on the podcast, I thought was fascinating, she's like, there's certain problems that they don't want to fix because they can campaign finance against it. They can like get people to donate money against it.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Brian Callan]

You know, like they could run on that platform. We're gonna fix this. Like, they don't want to fix it because that's how they get money.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Like, if you're in your homelessness, whatever organization, you actually need the homeless so you can keep existing.

[Brian Callan]

Not only that, it's even worse. They're incentivized to have more homeless.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

They get paid per homeless. So if they have more homeless people, they can say, hey, we need a bigger budget. We have more homeless people.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember when we had the unemployed in Australia. It was like we had these companies that would. It was their job to get you a job and the government would pay the money, but you got more money for finding someone a job if they've been unemployed for a longer period of time. So it's like, don't Try too hard to find him a job for the first two years. All right, two years in, then get him a job.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, you're growing some plants. You don't want to pick it so early.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's not. I don't think the answer is just a good king who solves everybody's problems, but I really do.

[Brian Callan]

You'd be a good king.

[Joe Rogan]

Why don't you be kinda go over.

[Brian Callan]

To Australia and be king of Australia.

[Joe Rogan]

We've got enough problems.

[Brian Callan]

You can fix it.

[Joe Rogan]

I've talked about getting our own king many. I did a show about it once. I really, I think aboriginal king would be.

[Brian Callan]

Well, everybody bring the country together. Yeah, for sure. That'll work. Everybody wants like the perfect system and it's not going to ever exist and I don't think it ever will because I think there's always going to be. No matter what happens, no matter who's in charge and no matter who's doing this, there's always going to be people that oppose. No matter what naturally oppose, even if illogically, there's. It's never gonna be perfect. But you gotta make it the most fair. It's gotta be fair. And as soon as you catch someone rigging the system, you gotta. That has to be alarm bells that go off for everybody on every side. It shouldn't. If you find out that there was mail in ballots that were illegal and they were fake and they were brought in so that the Republicans can win some sort of a primary. If you found out that was true and you were a Republican, you're supposed to be upset. Yeah, like this is. Someone is cheating this incredible system that we. And you're not going to have. The will of the people. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra processed kibble still the status quo? For most dog owners, healthy alternatives exist. Ones that are all about investing in the long term health of your dog. Like farmer's dog. The farmer's dog makes fresh food for dogs. The recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier. And isn't getting more time with our four legged best friends. Something that every dog owner wants. The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food, plus get free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.com rogan this offer is only for new customers.

[Joe Rogan]

You got to make it seem fair enough so that there's nothing. A violent uprising. It's gotta be like, just for having a future of the country.

[Brian Callan]

It's gotta be the will of the people.

[Joe Rogan]

January 7th thing. Yeah, that was people going, no, but that was. That was those people. That was a lot. There were some people there who were definitely feds trying to bring them in the building.

[Brian Callan]

I wonder how many were feds before that. Here's the question. There's a bunch of people that were feds at the scene. They finally had to admit that we.

[Joe Rogan]

Were talking about that for the capital.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That man's crazy. Have you seen that guy? It's crazy.

[Brian Callan]

It's crazy. There's a bunch of people that called people to go into the Capitol to break in, and a bunch of them probably were Feds. But how many feds were on these chat groups? How many feds were on message boards? How many feds were instigating people to do things and talking about things that aren't true or saying things that they're playing? How many. How many feds were trying to get the kookiest of the kooky riled up? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But then also, like, why. Why is the blame not on. Why do the Democrats not go? We've contributed to making a system that even if this is a totally legitimate, like, group of people who really believe what they're doing. By storing the Capitol, we've contributed to building a system that looks really fake to a lot of people, where we could take really easy steps to make it look less fake. Like you could have. I don't understand why voter ID isn't everywhere. And they go, well, not everyone has an id.

[Brian Callan]

Well, it's racist.

[Joe Rogan]

Give them one.

[Brian Callan]

It's racist. What you're saying is racist.

[Joe Rogan]

How hard could it be to go.

[Brian Callan]

Check your white privilege? You are a straight white male. Why don't you just shut the fuck up?

[Joe Rogan]

All the other races can have a photograph taken of themselves just as easily with a little laminated card.

[Brian Callan]

Meanwhile, all those other races just a few years ago needed proof of vaccination. So this is kooky. It's completely.

[Joe Rogan]

It would be. But then nothing is being done now to actually bring it in.

[Brian Callan]

It's illegal to show your ID in California.

[Joe Rogan]

Where?

[Brian Callan]

California.

[Joe Rogan]

In the whole state of California.

[Brian Callan]

You cannot show your ID when you vote. If you want to, you can't show it.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't wear it on a lanyard around your neck.

[Brian Callan]

They'll fire you, they'll kick you out of there. You can't vote now, sir. I don't know what they would do if you came in with a lanyard. That might be the move. But the point is they made it easier to cheat on purpose. Like that's the only reason why you would do that. And to say, like, it's racist to require id. How do I know who you are? I don't know you. There's a million people in this fucking town and this is like one polling station is lying around the block. I don't know you. I need your id. This is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

There was a clip from the Obama election that I remember watching where they were talking to a guy who was like, they asked him, have you ever voted before? He said no. Did you vote? He goes, yeah, it felt so good. I went back and did it again. And then they cut off to somebody else. I've always remembered that. That felt, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

If you don't have id, you could just change your clothes and go back in. Especially if you're a nondescript.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I don't have an anti Gavin Newsom bent, but I don't understand why he's the guy the Dems are pushing. Because he's from a state that everybody agrees is in huge disrepair.

[Brian Callan]

He doesn't agree that he thinks it's killing it.

[Joe Rogan]

They can't build a train.

[Brian Callan]

No, no, no, it's great.

[Joe Rogan]

They've wasted billions of dollars trying to get a reasonably short distance covered with a train.

[Brian Callan]

Listen.

[Joe Rogan]

And he can't do it.

[Brian Callan]

They're gonna get it worked out. He's gonna be president and then he's gonna fix it all. The problem is Trump.

[Joe Rogan]

Trump.

[Brian Callan]

The reason why it's Trump Trump is the real reason why California's failed is Trump. Once he gets into office, Trump will be out and he'll fix the whole country and say, guys, you gotta trust me on the long plan. People will buy into it. The reason why is cuz there's no one else. This is the reason.

[Joe Rogan]

There must be so many charismatics, There.

[Brian Callan]

Must be so many people that are rational out, so many people that aren't corrupt. They force them out. And then other people don't want their laundry dug up. They don't want fake stories told about them. They don't want ex girlfriends to get paid off to come up with crackpot theories of them being a satanic person or whatever. Drug addict, abusive.

[Joe Rogan]

All right.

[Brian Callan]

He did this.

[Joe Rogan]

Only people who left a dead bear in the park should get, like Bill Cosby as the candidate or people of Bill Cosby level stature. This is my new idea.

[Brian Callan]

Okay, okay, let me hear it.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is someone who is so you. There's nothing to blackmail them with. People already think this is one of the worst people.

[Brian Callan]

R. Kelly for president.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? You can't. Everyone knows he had a dungeon with a lady in it. Okay? You can't blackmail R. Kelly at this point. So whatever R. Kelly says he wants to do, he probably wants to do that. His reputation can't get any lower. Right. If you only put forward people who have done terrible things. If Epstein was still alive, you could have him. Cause what are you gonna blackmail him with? He was getting. He was doing all sorts of terrible things.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you would like to have a very good person who just hasn't done terrible things. Cause you're just a.

[Joe Rogan]

But you can just lie about them. The only security against being blackmailed even about a lie, is to be a.

[Brian Callan]

Total piece of shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Is to be the worst man in the country.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

No one likes my idea.

[Brian Callan]

It's a good idea for now. I think what we're gonna really be able to know within the next few years is whether or not you're telling the truth. I think with wearable electronics, I think ultimately they're trying to do something that allows you to communicate head to head. Have you seen that stuff where they do it?

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not getting it. I don't want to.

[Brian Callan]

Well, what they have right now is a wearable. These guys put it on, they think something, and then the other person hears it.

[Joe Rogan]

This is one of the worst things I've ever heard.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, you have to see it.

[Joe Rogan]

We're doing that.

[Brian Callan]

You have to see it. It's crazy when you watch them actually do it. So right now, it's attached to an actual computer behind them. But that's for now. Eventually, it's going to be wearable. Just like everything. It gets smaller. I mean, this is bigger than.

[Joe Rogan]

You're so much more relaxed with the AI stuff and the technology than I am.

[Brian Callan]

You can't.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm fighting it.

[Brian Callan]

If you see the asteroid coming, you have to realize you're going to die. Like, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Joe Rogan]

The Amish have continued very happily.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think it's going to be as disastrous as everybody thinks. I just don't believe that. I think we'll figure it out. But I think it's going to be a massive upheaval of our total. Completely. Our economic system, our life system, the way we interact with. But we have to realize this is what's really important. The way we interact is really new. The way we live in cities stacked in high rises and driving around in cars. This is a tiny little blip in time that the human race has existed like this. Before that, we had a totally different thing. And for the longest time, people traded things back and forth and they. They used gold coins and silver coins and. And there was no stock market. Like, this whole thing that we're doing right now with automation. And you're worried about. It's taking jobs. Those jobs weren't even a thing in the past. Yeah. We've built this giant population based on the fact that jobs would exist or it gave people the confidence to procreate, get married and have kids and. And this. We'll find another way. We'll have to. People will have to. It'll. It's just. It's not going to be pretty, but it's just like everything else that happens. It's this massive change in society and culture. We're gonna have to adapt.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm in. I'm in flight mode on it. I want to be on an acreage.

[Brian Callan]

You know, you get nervous when I play AI music in the room.

[Joe Rogan]

When I go, this is good. You go, say.

[Brian Callan]

I go, yeah. You love that country one I played the other day. That was good, right?

[Joe Rogan]

50 Cent stuff is fantastic. My favorite remains the Japanese cover of Oasis. Have you heard Japanese Oasis?

[Brian Callan]

No, I have not.

[Joe Rogan]

If you type in Japanese, Wonderwall it is. Oh, I like it a lot.

[Brian Callan]

But can we play it? Can we play it, Jamie? Or would it be an issue? We got to cut it out. We'd have to cut it out.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think anyone owns the rights to Japanese.

[Brian Callan]

They might. Somebody probably does.

[Jamie]

Who wrote the song Wonderwall Do.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Jamie]

That's how that works. The performance of this would be a different situation.

[Joe Rogan]

But I can do it now. I can do it. I'm getting a lot of trouble.

[Brian Callan]

Wonderwall. Oasis cover. Japanese Anka is the title on YouTube.

[Jamie]

This is the right one, I'm hoping.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

New Wave Films is the page. You have a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Stop this.

[Brian Callan]

Stop this. Stop this. You're a sick man. Why do you like that? Why do you like that?

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's the. The. The funniest voice of all time.

[Brian Callan]

But it's weird. It says not a real person, and it looks like an old video.

[Joe Rogan]

So they've cut up an old video and put it over the AI oh.

[Brian Callan]

That'S what they did.

[Joe Rogan]

If you look very closely, you can find the original music. And she's singing something about a sad.

[Brian Callan]

I thought it was, like, AI generated video, because you could do that. You know, I just.

[Joe Rogan]

I want to retreat from it. I want to be on a farm. I want to have chicken. I know, but this is also not, like, a serious way to build a society. I'm shocked that no one's blowing up the servers. Like, when they invented the loom, people in Britain were like, we will destroy all of the looms. No one is, like, upset now that robots can think.

[Brian Callan]

Well, they don't know what to do. Right. And it feels inevitable because it is. No one's gonna stop it. And if they did stop it, no one would listen. And if we did listen, the problem is China's not gonna listen. And it's a Manhattan Project kind of race.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, but then you go, okay, we've got to get the nuclear bomb first. But how does that pan out? In the end, everybody has a nuclear bomb.

[Brian Callan]

But here's the thing. You have to have one. Like, if AI exists and they can take over your financial system, they could do, like. You're gonna have to have AI that combats AI and your AI better be better than their AI.

[Joe Rogan]

I like that.

[Brian Callan]

And you have to have everything protected against AI I want to lose in.

[Joe Rogan]

A fabulous way that inspires people like Amada.

[Brian Callan]

That's what you want to do. That's why you should be the king of Australia. No, I mean, that should be your speech.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we're going to lose. We're going to lose, and people are going to be. So they're going to respect how we lose. This is the Christian message of getting defeated, and that's the ultimate victory.

[Brian Callan]

I think it's coming, dude, whether you like it or not. And it's better if we have it than if we don't. If you're Papua New guinea and the AI Overlords come storming into your town, you have no say. It's over.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. We've tried to have a say over Papua New Guinea a couple times. They're very hard to manage.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that's a very hostile place.

[Joe Rogan]

They're doing their own thing.

[Brian Callan]

That is a very, like, forbidding jungle.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, we are. No one wants to talk about it in Australia. Every time I try and talk about Papua New guinea at First, I didn't know about it. Like, racists would come at me at a party with facts. They'd be like, there's cannibalism in Papua New guinea sometimes. Shut up. And then you look it up.

[Brian Callan]

York in New.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, God. Oh, yes, there's a lot of cannibalism.

[Brian Callan]

They probably ate a Rockefeller.

[Joe Rogan]

The Kennedys used to go there as well.

[Brian Callan]

Do you know that one Rockefeller kid.

[Joe Rogan]

I had heard about? Yeah, I think the Rockefeller who went. He disappeared, though, right?

[Brian Callan]

I think what happened was the first time he went, he insulted them because he wanted something from them. He offered, like, to give them some money or something for something that they had, and they were like, no. And apparently the article that I'd read was assuming that that was some sort of an insult that he didn't understand. And then when he came back, he got in a boat with them and they stabbed him immediately. And then they brought him back to the shore and they murdered him. And this is from an account of another guy who I think was there. It's a very mysterious case. This guy could be full of shit, because it's a very mysterious case. The guy went there before, then he went back and disappeared.

[Joe Rogan]

But, I mean, there are a lot of people who went back. I know there was a Kennedy woman who went there and was, like, on a mission with people, and she loved them so much. She had a piano helicoptered in. She had, like, a grand piano. She was, like, not a very. She was a rich lady who didn't really understand how things worked. And if you put a piano in the highlands of Papua New guinea, you couldn't, like, maintain that piano.

[Brian Callan]

Duh.

[Joe Rogan]

But now they're like, just, this village has a beautiful old grand piano that definitely doesn't work now. She was like, I want to give them something.

[Brian Callan]

How long did she live there?

[Joe Rogan]

For years. There was a woman I used to go to church with who said she was there with her.

[Brian Callan]

So don't insult them and they want to eat you.

[Joe Rogan]

Seems simple, but how do you not.

[Brian Callan]

Insult people over there? You don't.

[Joe Rogan]

I.

[Brian Callan]

They probably don't.

[Joe Rogan]

I know people who've gone there. I thought about living there for a while. I thought that that would be, like, for real. I was looking it up. I was seeing if. Because it's cheaper. So I thought when I was very poor, because it was near Australia, I thought like, yeah, this is rough. Oh, my thought was I could live in Port Maunders and then just fly in and out and do gigs in Australia.

[Brian Callan]

What year is this? 1964. So in 1964, they were having a bow and arrow fight.

[Joe Rogan]

I think this is going on to this day.

[Jamie]

This says it's actually a war, a tribal war.

[Brian Callan]

Whoa.

[Joe Rogan]

They're trying to get them a football team.

[Brian Callan]

See, man, this is what people do. You get people into groups. They do that even in Papua New Guinea. This. This. This is like a test of it. Look at that guy's penis.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a beautiful.

[Brian Callan]

He's got, like a big stick.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is also. They're having a great time.

[Brian Callan]

What's going on with his dick?

[Jamie]

I don't know.

[Brian Callan]

What is that?

[Joe Rogan]

Who are we to judge? Debut.

[Brian Callan]

Is that like a.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a cone.

[Brian Callan]

Cone over his dick? Yeah, they got cones over their dicks.

[Joe Rogan]

I've seen people on 6th street dressed like.

[Brian Callan]

Those guys are ripped. That's the kind of body you get if you just run around shoot arrows all day. Not. Not a fat one amongst them. Not one lazy amongst them.

[Joe Rogan]

What is.

[Brian Callan]

Every one of those dudes has to get after it every day. A lot of dongs kind of wild that they don't even wear clothes when they do this. And they just close up shooting arrows at each other.

[Joe Rogan]

This is what the cameraman is just getting relaxed.

[Brian Callan]

And then you have to turn around and run away picking up arrows. Crazy. These arrows fly.

[Joe Rogan]

Have I told you about my favorite ever? I don't know if I said it. Last time I was on. My favorite ever Papua New guinea video is at the rugby where the guys storm the pitch. Have I told you about this?

[Brian Callan]

No. I want to watch a little bit more of that. Then. Tell me about that, because I'm fascinated by how shitty their strategy is. Like, how did these guys make it this long fighting bow and arrow fights like this?

[Joe Rogan]

When you read the Iliad or something, this is kind of how people are fighting that there's like two big masses. And then one guy steps, I understand.

[Brian Callan]

But this is like really shitty weaponry.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Like, how have they not figured out better weapons? You know, like, these are terrible bows and they don't have any feathers on their arrows. Like, those things fly like shit. Like, think of the Mongols in and, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

The 1200s, they figured out the recurve bow.

[Joe Rogan]

Also, like, the Maori just went out and got guns. Like, they traded for guns. The Indians traded for guns. They didn't.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I guess nobody was bringing guns to Papua New Guinea.

[Joe Rogan]

1964, they're deciding. Well, they must have because they were involved in World War II to help.

[Brian Callan]

Bro, these guys hate each other. I guarantee if you gave them ARS with red dots, they would just go running through that field, mowing those motherfuckers down.

[Joe Rogan]

They're just having a good time.

[Brian Callan]

Time perhaps. Oh, that guy got his penis. Con fell. No, he got hit. Yeah, he did. You see, he had blood on his ribs. What's that? Jamie?

[Jamie]

They're trying to help him in some way. I don't know if he had like splinters stuck in his.

[Brian Callan]

It looked like he had blood on the left side of his body.

[Jamie]

It was a whole little series. There was like close up, right. Surgery or something.

[Brian Callan]

What were they doing? He might have got stuck a few times, man.

[Jamie]

Also, I'm not showing this on the screen because it's.

[Brian Callan]

Right, right, right.

[Jamie]

Copyright.

[Brian Callan]

All sorts of stuff. All sorts of. A lot of dongs, too. It's like, you know, the. The thing about places like that is that place has. It's the. The environment is so hostile. Yeah, it's so hostile to, like, to survive there for generation after generation after generation. You live a subsistence lifestyle. You live off the land and everybody has to hunt and gather. And if people come into your side from the other side, these. They're trying to steal your food, they're gonna. You have to go to tribal war. That's how they've been rocking it probably for thousands.

[Joe Rogan]

Between that and AI, though, there's a. There's a middle path between.

[Brian Callan]

No tribal war. Listen, you can't stop AI, buddy. You can't stop AI.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm hopeful.

[Brian Callan]

No, you gotta.

[Joe Rogan]

How many movies did we have to have warning us that it was terrible?

[Brian Callan]

All of them. None of them worked.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think there's one movie saying it was a good idea to take. It's inevitable.

[Brian Callan]

It's inevitable. It's inevitable.

[Joe Rogan]

We got.

[Brian Callan]

You just have to accept it. You have to accept it and I can't do it. Live your life. You can't. Listen, we don't know what the change is going to be, and I don't really believe that we're going to let it be entirely bad. And I think it's probably better to have something like that than to not when you're dealing with things like, you know, the power grabs that are going on all over the world where they're trying to lock people up for speech violations. In the UK, it's 12,000 people this year and they're making people get digital ID and they're doing all these different things. At a certain point in time, you're going to benefit from a super intelligence that can rationally explain why this is no way to sustain a civilization.

[Joe Rogan]

I just. I would like us to have some say over how we implement that.

[Brian Callan]

I would like to tell God what to tell me.

[Joe Rogan]

We've got that he set up a beautiful church.

[Brian Callan]

I know all we have to do is what you're asking, though.

[Joe Rogan]

But, like, with cars, like, car. You can use cars in a way that makes a society great. Like, if you have a. But then you can also have cars that, like, ruin a whole neighborhood and a whole city. And you can't walk anywhere. And it's a big problem.

[Brian Callan]

You mean leaking oil?

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, like, just having a freeway that cuts through for no reason. Or like, not being able to, like, walk around a downtown.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you can use it in a specific. The New Polity magazine is what I've been reading on this, where they're like Catholic guys in Steubenville who. Like, how can we. To what extent a chat, you know, can we choose to use technology in a way that's helpful to us? And how much are we just, like, absolutely governed by what the technology becomes? And then we have to be subservient to it. Like, do we get to choose how we use technology around us? Or are we just.

[Brian Callan]

Why do you assume, though, that we're gonna be subservient to it? That's where it gets weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Cause I think we're subservient to the car. Like, no one wants to live in a. When you see what cars do to certain cities in America and you go like. Like, it's. So when you're in New Orleans and you're walking around and there's problems with New Orleans, but, like, you're walking around the French Quarter, which is like a. Designed before cars. It's so you can have music, you can, like, run around on the street, and it's like a beautiful, nice place to be compared to, like, a strip mall. When you build it the way people have to live around what the cars are. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can have, like, the way that they build a freeway and a weird block of houses next to it, and no one can walk anywhere. Like, you just can't get out on your legs anywhere. Or like, that seems like you're building it based on the car. You're letting the car make the car have the maximum ease for how it can operate. And you try and live in the shadow of that rather than going, what's a nice way to live as a person? And how do we use the car to increase our Quality of life, Right, Right. Like, can we use AI to make our lives better or do we have to, you know, like, we can do digital IDs, should we?

[Brian Callan]

No. Let me ask you, what do you think is like worst case scenario for AI? What are you really genuinely scared of?

[Joe Rogan]

Ah, man, it'd be a bunch of things. I don't want to just start with the porno, but certainly the porno spooks me out. The AI porno, but that's already here, I think, the writing and the ability to write and think and process information. And that's definitely like carved away. Like if you look at kids in schools who are using AI instead of writing an essay, right. People can't write five sentences together because they're just, they're not developing the skill. And you don't, you know, if people are getting a degree in something already, people were outsourcing that to people to help them, you know, write an essay or something. But if you'll get like a Bachelor of arts is increasingly worthless. If AI can do it for you and then you can, you can say, I know about history.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So, like, I think the functionality of education, I'm terrified of that falling apart and people not knowing how to read people, which is already disintegrated. Sure. But I think this rapidly speeds that up. I mean, I'm afraid of, as like an artist, if I want to go and like make a movie or something, maybe I'm just like old fashioned and attached to the idea of having a camera and having people act. But it's like I can increasingly see less and less reason that you'd have to do that and someone wouldn't just write it out and go, this happens in this scene. Change that guy's eye, you know what I mean? Like there's something. And more than anything, I get spooked out with the video. And what scares me about the music is I hear the music, I hear the audio AI when you put on the songs, and I go, this is actually very good. This doesn't have an otherworldly quality to it. This is actually just a good song, it sounds like. But when I see the video, I feel like I get the heebie jeebies on the AI video. Do you get that at all?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

And I go, this is. Who is showing me this? What is the intelligence behind this?

[Brian Callan]

Well, it's a lie, right? That's part of it. But it's like a pretty damn good lie that you know it's gonna get way better at lying. Like that's pretty good right now. Like it's like when a 4 year old lies to you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

Wow. When you're 20, you're gonna be a con man. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, it's got a real potential to be something that is like I already see disaster videos every day that aren't real. Like every day I saw someone sent me like, like a. One of those cruise boats going into a giant fucking bridge and all the cars collapsing on top of it. One of those massive cruise ships. It's totally fake and I can kind of pick it out right away. I was like, I didn't hear about this. This isn't real. I think now it's fake. And I'm watching it, I'm like, okay.

[Joe Rogan]

But it takes a minute.

[Brian Callan]

But it takes a minute.

[Joe Rogan]

And like a year and a half ago it didn't get the hands right.

[Brian Callan]

Right. And it's going to be within a year. You're not going to be able to tell at all. You're going to have no idea. You have no idea. There's so many animal attacks now that are fake. There's so much that's fake. But it's the price that you pay for the advancement and the capabilities of doing things. I think there's still going to be a value that people want to go see a movie that someone made. Just like there's people out there that still live going to see live shows. Like live shows will never change. There's a connection that human beings have at live shows. Like Kill Tony we did last night.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

How fun. So fun. The most fun.

[Joe Rogan]

That was one of the best ones that there's been.

[Brian Callan]

It was really fun. But that's, that's a real moment that we all shared together.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

You can't recreate that with AI, but there's a lot of things you can. And that's just a fact. That's just how it is.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think we can.

[Brian Callan]

You can't change it.

[Joe Rogan]

I want, I just want more of that. I want to live in a spontaneous, you can society.

[Brian Callan]

Well, hopefully more people will also choose to do something that's in their wheelhouse to do along those lines. As long as you still have a thing that you're trying to work towards, you're going to be okay. Like if, let's say if the real weird one is universal basic income, because this is. Elon is famously said, and I don't know what this even means, but not only will people have universal basic income, It'll be actually universal, high income. There'll be enough prosperity that everyone in the country will get a large salary. You will never have to work again. But then the problem is you're completely dependent on the state, if there is a state anymore. Like, what is the state when there's a digital God that you've created in the center of the town that has its own nuclear power plant that's operating everything.

[Joe Rogan]

I have no logical rationale for why these things are terrible. But in my soul it screams out, let's not invent.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Because you love being a human.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

You love literature and, you know, you're an interesting guy. You like a lot of cool music. You love things that people make and create, and you create great comedy. So it makes sense. It makes sense that you feel the way you feel. And I share those feelings. But I'm also a realist. And I'm one of those people that just goes, okay, buckle up. Things are going to get weird. Because it's going to get weird. It's going to get weird and people are going to get super angry. There's going to be a lot of people that they worked really hard to get a job and that job is completely irrelevant now. It's been taken over.

[Joe Rogan]

Job is irrelevant. And then also, like, being able to just, like there's a freedom in being allowed to have a revolution. And that's what this country was founded on, is that when things get bad and the people cry out for a new form of government, they can go and get it right. And I think that chances of anyone in the world having a revolution shot through the floor as soon as they invented robot dogs that could chase you through the street. And I haven't seen the footage of the robot dogs in a couple of years, but I bet they're better than they used to be now.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's like, okay, if we have the robot dogs, how is there gonna be an effective change of government? Or is that. That's just it. If you own the robot dogs, no one else is really gonna be a threat to you as the ruling class. That's terrifying that you just have a permanent ossification, like you have a set in stone of what the ruling class is gonna be. Cause they've got weapons that no one can challenge them with.

[Brian Callan]

That's worst case scenario. Right? And one of the things you have to think is, why would AI let the working or the ruling class decide what it does? I mean, because why would they listen? No, no, no. At a certain point in time, it's going to be sentient. At a certain point in time, it's going to have its own robots that do its tasks, like different things that have to be built and structured and different things that have to be designed and engineered. It'll have that. It'll have robots that work on the material sciences and all these different things. But it'll be a God, It'll be a digital God. It's not going to listen to a person that says, arrest people for saying Muslims shouldn't invade this country. It's not going to be that. It's not going to listen to you. That's the real fear is that we're no longer gonna be the apex predator of the planet. And it's not even gonna be a predator, but it's just gonna be so predator. Why would it.

[Joe Rogan]

If it helped it, the thing.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, but why would it. What would it. If it has any desires at all, if it becomes sentient, the real question is, would it do anything? It might just exist. If it really becomes brilliant and it really becomes all knowing, it might just exist. It might just say, figure it out on your own.

[Joe Rogan]

More than anything, I think I have a religious impulse against this, where this is creating an Right. Like this is. Moses comes down and he goes, don't build the golden calf. That's not your God. We're building a very sophisticated golden calf.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Well, I always wonder how much of the stories from the Bible, like especially the Old Testament, like, how old are those stories? How long? What were they? What was the original thing that they were trying to document?

[Joe Rogan]

You got into Enoch in a big way.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, God. Rep. Luna, same woman. She. She got me into that too. She said, have you never read it? I said, no. I'd seen some passages online that were kind of kooky. I got the audiobook and when I really want to trip out when I'm driving to the comedy club, I listen to the book of Enoch in the car. It's completely bananas.

[Joe Rogan]

That's bonkers.

[Brian Callan]

And it could have been included in the Bible. That's what's in it.

[Joe Rogan]

In some Bibles. It's in the Ethiopians. Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

They should have kept it in our Bible too. We would have a completely different version of the creation of man.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, we do. What is this? Who has the wheel within a wheel? Ezekiel. Ezekiel? Yeah. I sat down, I tried to read Ezekiel a couple months ago. I couldn't wade through it, and that.

[Brian Callan]

Made it in bananas.

[Joe Rogan]

But good luck explaining any of that.

[Brian Callan]

It's either Ezekiel had a UFO encounter or Ezekiel was tripping balls. Yes, either one of those things or both of those things together could be true.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember I was listening to your podcast and I forget who you were talking to, but you were talking about hallucinogens and the church and, like, people having miracles, experiencing visions because they were on something. And I remember thinking, like, I think that could be the case, but also how low a stimulus these people had in their everyday life. Like, if you're in a field every day, seeing nothing but a field.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

For like, you know, and you're not eating very much, and then once a week you go into this dark building and there's candlelight and music and incense and flashing things. That would probably unlock something strange if you had such an understimulated.

[Brian Callan]

Also a complete belief in what these people are saying. There was no atheist back then. There was no people that were like, ah, get out of here with all this God shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody believed, I think to a greater extent. I think they still wouldn't believe.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it was probably a few atheists, but it was probably way less. Yeah, way less. Like, people are proud to be atheists today. There's a strange pride.

[Joe Rogan]

There's less of them. Ten years ago, they were riding high. Did you ever say they won every debate? They were so proud and they just went away?

[Brian Callan]

Well, it was like, Sam Harris, he was really good at that. And Christopher Hitchens was really good.

[Joe Rogan]

He was man, too.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, Both those guys were really good at shutting down religious ideas. But I think there's actually a religious style of thinking involved in atheism. And I know a lot of people who used to be atheists that had psychedelic experiences that gave up on any of that and said, okay, I don't know. I think there's something else and I don't know what it is. And I'm not gonna say that there's no God.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, even Christopher Hitchens, I don't wanna misrepresent him if people get angry at me, but he was not. I think his real views were closer to being agnostic than being an atheist. Well, I think he used atheist as a lot, but when you read him, he goes, oh, the universe is so incredible and there's so much out there. And I don't know. And I don't think these particular things are true. But he didn't. The possibility that there was a sublime.

[Brian Callan]

Of course. No, he's a. He was a very rational guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

You know, he just really hated religious zealotry and he really hated justifications. For wars. I mean, he was one of the harshest critics of Bill Clinton ever. Like that guy was.

[Joe Rogan]

He did get behind a rock, though.

[Brian Callan]

He did.

[Joe Rogan]

And he stuck with it for a long time.

[Brian Callan]

He did. Unfortunately, you know, it's like there's a lot of people that got caught up in that. You know, they really did believe that that was a good idea. You know, especially post September 11th, there was a lot of people that really believed that this had to be done in order to protect us, man. It's like with everything, you find out more behind the scenes stuff and what was really going on with Kuwait and why did Iraq invade Kuwait in the first place? Why did we go back to Iraq after we've been gone for so long? It's like, oh, there's so much shenanigans.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Like always, always shenanigans. No one is great. Everyone is. You know, when Russell Crowe was here, your. Your countryman, the great and powerful Russell.

[Joe Rogan]

I never got to meet him, but I want to ask him so many.

[Brian Callan]

Questions next time he's in town. Oh, yeah, well, you're gonna be in your fucking shitty country.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll be back, I'll come back. I want to ask him about when he met Azalea Banks and they got into a scrap.

[Brian Callan]

I do not think Australia is shitty. I love Australia. I'm just fucking, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Some of the things happening at the.

[Brian Callan]

Moment, I've been very upset.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the social media, man, people are fucking awesome.

[Brian Callan]

I love Australian people. I have had more fun in Australia than almost any other country I've visited. Fucking love it there. They're fun, they know how to party, they're generally friendly. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I think we also, we love not having to pay attention. Like that's one of our freedoms, is just to don't bother me, leave me alone, make me feel safe. And so when there is a thing like this shooting, we just want to go, we'll take care of it. Get rid of the problem, them, right?

[Brian Callan]

And then the problem is guns. Go get the guns. No, the problem is people willing to use the guns. Because if people only have knives and they'll run them, right? Run around, stab people.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, if you have access to a car, you can drive through people.

[Brian Callan]

Like this is the problem is people.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And the problem is also you can't have defenseless cops. You have got cops that don't have guns. Your cops have to have guns.

[Joe Rogan]

I think there was like a chubby detective who took the shot who got it done and he was standing like 40 yards away. He was a long way away with a pistol.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, boy.

[Joe Rogan]

And that is a red dot. No, he was really. He was. It's like he's wearing a white shirt. I think there's a great photo of him.

[Brian Callan]

Sounds like he was ready to go. Do you have a rifle? Do you show him with a rifle or a pistol?

[Joe Rogan]

Pistol.

[Jamie]

Oh, wow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it was like, I think I'm getting this right. I'm seeing it all through. Oh, social media not being there is. Is weird. I have no idea what the vibe is in the country.

[Brian Callan]

The thing is, like, they're never going to give you the guns back. That it's never gonna happen. Like, they're gonna try to take them more and more and more. And once you let them have any, it's just normal, man. When people get some control over you, they want ultimate control. When they have a little bit of power, they want maximum power. And it's just the game they're playing.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think we don't love freedom the way Americans love freedom.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it's unfortunate.

[Joe Rogan]

I think I stick out and it's weird, but we actually, like, we don't have a freedom of speech law. And people seem really calm about that. People go, like, it's good not to have proper freedom of speech. Cause we can make everyone cohere and be together. And they're happy with that. And they're comfor with that, by and large. I mean, you wouldn't tolerate that here for a second.

[Brian Callan]

It's not good. It's just not good for have. Because it depends on who's in power. You have. The best people that have ever lived are in power. And they're these benevolent, beautiful people that only want a cooperative, healthy society. They figured out how to do it, but no one's figured out how to do that. So stop.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know. Sometimes I look at the Japanese.

[Brian Callan]

They've got it down.

[Joe Rogan]

I stay up late and I watch Japanese videos of just like, just the streets of Japan when they're walking around and they're on their little vending machines.

[Brian Callan]

Super polite. Everyone's.

[Joe Rogan]

They can't have children, but they're very happy.

[Brian Callan]

That's a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

No one's breathing.

[Brian Callan]

No one.

[Joe Rogan]

I. I can't. You've bred. I'm breeding. But in general, the birth rate has collapsed. Well, the Japanese are worse than anything.

[Brian Callan]

The Japanese have it real bad. South Korea has it real bad, too.

[Joe Rogan]

South Korea's down to like half a child per lady.

[Brian Callan]

Something crazy like that. Yeah. Is it because they became career obsessed? Is that what it is.

[Joe Rogan]

My friend Eve lived there for a while, and she was telling me about what's happened with the feminist movement there. And, like, heaps of women are swearing off of men. They go, this is our duty to feminism is to never be in a relationship with a man.

[Brian Callan]

Do you know that was one girl that couldn't get fucked. That started off for all the other girls. She's very charismatic. She was a galgal. She was a hater. And she's mad that nobody wanted to fuck her. She's like, no, we're gonna say no to all of them.

[Joe Rogan]

It worked. It worked. I mean, they. I don't. How many you've got. A bunch of kids. Yeah, I enjoy having them. We're about to have the fourth one, and I know some people who have, like, people I went to school with. It's now dawning on me that that's weird that I've had children and that most people will have one in my cohort or none. Like, I just thought at some point I was starting a bit early, but I'm seeing my generation just. Just the numbers are panning out, and people are not having any kids. And you get to a certain age and you go, oh, that's it. I guess you're not. You're not ever. It's a part of life that you've decided not to experience. And I don't. I don't know if it's. People want to be in control. They want to have enough money before they start having kids. They want to have, like, be set up nicely or.

[Brian Callan]

If some people don't want to have kids.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of people.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I really don't. My opinion, I think you can have a full and fulfilling and wonderful life without children. I do not think that everyone's the same. I do not think that I should ever be able to tell you what's right or what's wrong when you're not hurting anybody. You're not hurting anybody by not having any kids.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think there are a lot of people who'd like to have kids who are not having or think, like, I'll get kids.

[Brian Callan]

Well, there's a lot of men that don't want to commit, and then a lot of ladies that stick with them. And then there's ladies that want a career, and maybe they wait too long. And there's a lot of factors. There's a lot of also environmental factors that are dropping men's sperm count, increasing miscarriages, microplastics are a real issue.

[Joe Rogan]

I do think that thing about staying with a lady too long is. I'll say this for Leonardo DiCaprio. He releases them, it's something. 25.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Bye. Bye.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not gonna take these very precious years away from you.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think that's what he's doing.

[Joe Rogan]

I think he's a good man. I think he's a kind man.

[Brian Callan]

He likes him young. Likes him young. Which would be great if he was a woman. So if he was a woman. If he was a 50 year old woman and he only banged 25 year old guys and he looked, you know, or she rather looked hot for a 50 year old like he does for a 50 year old man. Who cares?

[Joe Rogan]

There is this weird, there's a weird thing happening with women in this country where if a man dates a woman slightly younger than them, he's accused of being a pedophile. Like a man will be dating a 27 year old, he'll be like 40 dating a 27 year old lady. And people go, how fucking dare you. Ah, right. I think that's gotta be allowed. I think you've got, I mean that man last night, who was. That was a bit spooky. The gay man who had the.

[Brian Callan]

Why was that spooky?

[Joe Rogan]

Ah, cause he was in his 40s and his lover was in his 20s. Yeah, but then when did the relationship start, people?

[Brian Callan]

Five years ago. Okay, Isn't that what he said?

[Joe Rogan]

I'm gonna have to do some maths.

[Brian Callan]

No, maybe he said 10, 10 years ago.

[Joe Rogan]

I gotta do some maths on it. People definitely breathed in, in the room.

[Brian Callan]

Him. Yeah, but it's a guy, it's a. So he dated a 20 year old guy when he was.

[Joe Rogan]

I think we should let young gay men develop.

[Brian Callan]

I don't know, let them do whatever the they want to do. If you're an 18 year old man and you've decided you're gay and you live with a 50 year old gay man, who gives a. I don't think.

[Joe Rogan]

The state should get involved in it.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think the state should get involved. I don't think anybody should get involved once you're 18. But in that situation it's, it is different. You look at it differently than say it was like, like when the ages get up, like say, say if someone's 20 and they're dating a 25 year old normal, you know, you know what you like. Yeah, you know he's. But if you're 20, you're dating a 60 year old or you're 20, you're dating A 70 year old.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Like things get really weird, you know? That's when things get really weird. It's like, what's going on here? Like, why are you dating this 27 year old? Be like, why wouldn't you date a 27 year old? You? Yeah, I would, but I'm 35. That's normal. Why are you, the 70 year old, dating the 27? Because she's willing. Yes, because she's willing. She's. Is she not a grown woman? She is, right? Okay, what are we doing here? You're mad. You're mad that the age gap is so wide.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, what makes you feel.

[Brian Callan]

How dare you?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Bill's.

[Brian Callan]

How dare you bring that up, bro? He wins. He went. Put that picture back up.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, Tame's not winning.

[Brian Callan]

He wins in a huge way. I don't give a. What he has to do. I don't care if he makes her the head of his charity. Whatever. She's hot as fuck. Let's go. She's 24. How old is he?

[Jamie]

Maybe 70.

[Brian Callan]

He wins, okay? He wins. It's worth it. Whatever he has to do. Whatever mockery he. Yes, it is.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember when I came to this country, he was a severe man who people were afraid of.

[Brian Callan]

Listen to me.

[Joe Rogan]

He had credibility.

[Brian Callan]

He still does.

[Joe Rogan]

No, now he's doing weird photo shoots on the beach.

[Brian Callan]

Hey, you got to do what you got to do. But listen, he gets to her, he wins.

[Joe Rogan]

There's gotta be.

[Brian Callan]

Listen, it's a deal. They got a deal. He's fishing, he caught a mermaid. Great job. Imagine that photo shoot. That's her idea. This poor guy, he wants to go drink martinis, hang out at the beach.

[Joe Rogan]

There's something about having gravitas that no amount of having sex with a mermaid.

[Brian Callan]

Woman can gravitas by yourself, sitting there with cigar and a whiskey, looking cool.

[Joe Rogan]

How long. How long do you need to be able to have sex for? I'm waiting for it to go away. At some point it'll. I'm not going to take the Blue Chew. When it starts to disappear, I'm happy. Honestly.

[Brian Callan]

You say that now.

[Joe Rogan]

I do say.

[Brian Callan]

You say that now.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me go. Set me free. I'm sick of it.

[Brian Callan]

You're lying.

[Joe Rogan]

I am not. If I get to be 70 and I cannot get an erection, I will say this is okay. I can do other things with my time again.

[Brian Callan]

You definitely can. Yeah, but it'll also mean a decrease in your vitality as a human Being, which is not fun because it leads to depression. You're going to be tired all the time. It's all connected, buddy.

[Joe Rogan]

There's got to be a way to have a fulfilling life and not be horny constantly. Now, I haven't found that, but I'm sure it's out there.

[Brian Callan]

Of course, there certainly is. There's a lot of people that are completely asexual and they have a fine life.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't trust them, though. No, it's always weird. But I think it's Bunuel who has a line about, like, maybe it's Plato. I don't know. But it's like when I got older and I wasn't horny anymore, it was like being. It was like I was unshackled from a madman.

[Brian Callan]

Right. Well, didn't. Was it Tesla that did that? Okay. There was some references to Tesla in quotes, destroying his manhood because he had gotten some sort of infatuation with a woman at one point in time. And. And it apparently was ruining his life. So this is a weird thing about Tesla. There's a lot of, like, fake stories about him, you know, so it's hard to separate the wheat from the shot.

[Joe Rogan]

People, you know, wheat from the shot.

[Brian Callan]

But he did fall in love with a pigeon.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Brian Callan]

Tesla had a pigeon that he loved, dear.

[Joe Rogan]

People don't bring that up when they said he had a limitless source of energy that he had access to. They don't always go, and he fell in love with a pigeon and made him destroy his penis.

[Brian Callan]

No, I think the woman made him destroy. I don't know if he. What he did, you know, he might have taken something to, like, chemically castrate him. They used to do that to pedophile priests. Yeah, they give him, like, saltpeter to keep them from being. I don't know what salt Peter is.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I don't know salt Peter, but I know about the castration of people.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, that too. So, I mean, maybe personally castrated.

[Joe Rogan]

What is salt Peter?

[Brian Callan]

It's something that they used to give priests to keep them from getting horny. I don't know what it is. It would kill their desires. What is it called? It's called salt Peter. I think it, like, spelled Peter.

[Jamie]

Before I get to that. Nikola Tesla reportedly died a virgin.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. So that lady that he was infatuated with, probably first time he got rock.

[Jamie]

Hard, saw Peter's potassium nitrate.

[Joe Rogan]

He was using his energy for other things. He definitely was having a fulfilling life.

[Brian Callan]

And he definitely is doing well. Was doing well. Doing that, like that probably would have stolen a lot of. Lot of resources from his inventing. And so what is salt? Can you put salt Peter up so we can see what it does?

[Jamie]

Nitrate?

[Brian Callan]

I don't know. Let's see what it does here. Saltpeter, primarily potassium nitrate, a natural mineral mineral historically crucial for gunpowder, but also used today as a fertilizer, fruit preservative, curing meats, and for sensitive teeth and asthma relief. It's a source of nitrogen mined from caves or made by mixing nitrates. And while once believed in aphrodisiac, it's a myth, though its curing role is real. Aphrodisiac?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

That's the opposite of what you want right now. You don't want to take a pedophile put into perplexity. Where does the. Where does the story or where does the. Whatever the. The issue with Saul Peter and priests come from? Like, where's that story come from from? Because I remember hearing that when we were kids that they would take a pedophile priest and they'd give him salt Peter, and we're like, what? The myth associating salt Peter with suppressing priest sexual urges stems from medieval and Renaissance beliefs. That's how old I am, son. When I was a kid, they were talking in medieval and Renaissance beliefs, in alchemy and folk medicine. During that era, salt Peter was prescribed in mineral baths or potions as an infallible cure for victims of love potions. The cure. A love potion. You got hit with a love potion? Alongside substances like alum, antimony, and sulfur, this notion evolved into broader folkloric claims of its anaphrodisiac properties. Never seen that word before. Later applied to institutions like militaries, prisons and monasteries, though no historical evidence ties it specifically to priests. Food. So here's the thing. If it gives you nitrogen and, like, thought of as an aphrodisiac, you don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Want to give that to a pedophile, right?

[Brian Callan]

Is that.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that like.

[Brian Callan]

Did the pedophiles trick them? Did they trick them and say, you know what? If you give me this, it'll kill my dick. Meanwhile, it's like their gas station voter pills.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, the. On the, like medieval medicine, they were still bleeding people until, like the 1870s. Oh, yeah, I was reading about that this week.

[Brian Callan]

Someone, some famous person. That's how he died from. Was it George Washington?

[Joe Rogan]

Did they bled him too much?

[Brian Callan]

I think George Washington, like, insisted on them bleeding him more than the physician advised bloodletting. Yeah, wasn't it George Washington? Shane knows A lot about Washington.

[Joe Rogan]

He. That's like he hasn't done it yet. But if ever he decides to do a long form podcast on the Civil.

[Brian Callan]

War, he should do a long form podcast on history, period. I was telling him that, that. Oh, and his death involved extensive bloodletting. George Washington, a common 18th century medical practice that likely hastened his demise from a throat infection. The query George Washington bloodletting appears to be a misspelling. No worries. Bloodletting practice. Doctors bled. Why do they include that in AI? AI is correcting you.

[Joe Rogan]

They're no, it looks like you've up.

[Brian Callan]

It's like AI is kind of with.

[Joe Rogan]

You a little bit.

[Brian Callan]

Doctors bled. Multiple bled Washington multiple times on December 14, 1799, removing about 80 ounces, roughly 40% of his blood volume. Imagine they thought it was a good idea to take your blood out while you're dying.

[Joe Rogan]

Like for hundreds of years they were doing it. And maybe it does have some benefits that I should look into.

[Brian Callan]

I doubt it. Yeah, she's got a throat infection. They take your blood out. Imagine the days when they hadn't figured out antibiotics yet.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, we get to enjoy them for. I mean, at some point they'll stop working, right? Like, we'll get some of them.

[Brian Callan]

I mean, there's, there's resistant strains of mrsa. You know, MRSA is staph infection that you can't cure with antibiotics. It's very dangerous when people get it. I've had friends that got it. It's horrific. It eats holes in your body. I had a buddy of mine who had it done on his knee, his whole knee, like he was at the hospital. And he sent me a picture of them, what they had done to his knee. They'd split his knee open down the middle. They pulled it open to clean it all out and disinfect it. It was so insanely infected from this medical resistant staph infection. So he was on an IV drip 24 hours a day. He stayed in the hospital for weeks for this fucking infection.

[Joe Rogan]

We didn't have that kind of staph infection before antibiotics.

[Brian Callan]

Right. It's a major cause of death in this country.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And in the food, right. Like, it's in the meat. What is antibiotics? Like, we feed. I remember someone saying, like, that's the real problem is that we're giving it to like the cows. We just put it in their feed.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I think the reason they do it, supposedly there's a lot of, like, if you get an organic steak, grass fed, organic. Most people believe that that is the healthiest version of beef, because that's an animal that's not being given any hormones, not being given any antibiotics, and is eating grass, which is what they're supposed to. Now when they eat corn, sometimes they get these like weird abscesses and they get like problems digesting. It's not natural food for cows. That's why they get so fat. Like the reason why they get that marbling. That's their fucking dying. Like, we're giving them terrible food and their meat tastes different.

[Joe Rogan]

They're like wagyu beef. They're feeding them beer, I think.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, brother. Barely alive. When you see that beautifully marbled piece of wagyu beef.

[Joe Rogan]

That's very sad. Actually.

[Brian Callan]

That's. That's a very depressed animal. They depressed the fuck out of that thing before it died.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't realize they were not feeding cows grass for like, until I was in the grocery store and they had like, this is grass fed milk. It's like, what the fuck's the other one? This is news to me.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it's interesting because I was reading this thing about certain pasture raised eggs that you get that are really bright orange and you think, oh, this is a really healthy egg. What actually was going on was they were feeding the chickens turmeric and they were feeding the chickens a bunch of things that affected the color of their eggs. And these eggs were high in vegetable oils because I think Alpha lupo. I don't remember what acid it is. Alpha lipoic. What is it? No, that's a supplement. Whatever it is. They were realizing that the chickens were eating mostly grain. Yeah. And then they were making it look like they were eating all these insects, which is usually what you get when you get a chicken that has like a real rich, like a natural raised chicken if it's just that rich orange yolk. That thing's eating bugs and all kinds of stuff. That's what it's supposed to eat. So they were like pretending by giving these chickens turmeric that would make their yolk like a really bright orange, and then they were giving them corn. So they were pretending these chickens were running around in a pasture, but they were just dumping a pile of things to get them fat as quick as possible and then feeding them some fairy dust that makes their eggs fall out.

[Joe Rogan]

This isn't the same thing as AI for me where I just want to be in a field in a cottage. That's my chicken over there and I know where it is. I know one day I'll kill that chicken and we'll eat it as a family.

[Brian Callan]

Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Living on a farm, especially like a small individual farm is probably a very harmonious way to live in nature.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, you do have to make a lot of money to like, you have to really thrive in the system to go and get that.

[Brian Callan]

That now isn't that crazy? Because that used to be the way poor people lived.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I yearn to live like a poor person.

[Brian Callan]

I think 150 years harmonious for human beings to live like that. Everybody that I know that lives like that will kind of tell you that it seems right. I think people lived like that for so long, I think it feels normal for them and they're totally self sustaining as opposed to someone who just relies on these trucks to keep showing up at the grocery store.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean also, like at some point, I know RFK came in with like trying to do a lot of things to improve the food and I don't know how many are going through, but at some point people will get sick enough. I think you have to have some sort of chance. I mean, my wife has become gluten free since coming to America because she's become gluten. Like she had gluten her whole life. Something in the wheat here, I don't know what they're doing to it is not good.

[Brian Callan]

Well, one of the things is the excessive use of glyphosate. Glyphosate is in a lot of different things. The other things, there's a bunch of, of.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like a pesticide.

[Brian Callan]

It's a bunch of different chemicals that they put into modern bread. What was it? Bromine? Is that one of them? There's a guy who we, we played a video of him breaking it down. Remember that video, Jamie, about what's wrong with bread in America? See if you can find that. It's very enlightening because it's one of those things you, you, you realize like, oh, this is all to make it shelf stable so it stays good forever. And they've made more complex glutens in the wheat because that way you get a higher yield per acre and they've all made it. So it creates all this intolerance. Like you get gut inflammation if you eat too much of it. You feel terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

It was the only thing people would eat. You would just eat bread. You get a loaf of bread for the week and you'd have whatever meat you could have next to it and you'd be. But surely we don't need that at this point. We can have.

[Brian Callan]

The problem is industrial agriculture has kind of taken over in this country. And if you want to make money, that's really kind of the only way to make money for farming. It's really difficult to run regenerative farm and have it be like really profitable the way these enormous, like, industrial farming situations are. You're not supposed to have monocrop agriculture. Like, that's crazy. You're not supposed to have a thousand acres of corn just growing together. That's kooky. Like, no one has that in the wild. That's not normal. So it's supposed to be genetic diversity. It's supposed to be animal everywhere. It all feeds into each other. That's what they do in regenerative farms. But their yield is so much lower than a farm that stacks all the pigs into a warehouse and has them into a lake.

[Joe Rogan]

I've seen the. The weird little tunnels where they put the pigs into. It's not nice.

[Brian Callan]

It's disgusting. It's disgusting.

[Joe Rogan]

But then.

[Brian Callan]

But that's how you get Jack in the Box on every corner. That's how you feed a million people that aren't growing. You don't. No. I'm not suggesting you lose Jack in the box or any of these places, but I'm just saying that we've kind of painted ourself into a corner where you have no one working in food production.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

You have a small amount of people in these cities that even understand where their food is coming from. Everybody's just assuming it's gonna show up. You're gonna go to the nice restaurant, you sit there and you have a filet mignon and a glass of wine. You have no idea where anything came from. And you don't have to. But that's a luxury that most people don't realize is a luxury until something like the pandemic happens and everything shuts down. And then you go, oh, no, food's coming in. Where do we get food?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God.

[Brian Callan]

We have to learn how to hunt.

[Joe Rogan]

This is like the AI Hope, right? Is that it takes care of all the. Like, we can return. We can have superabundance and we can return to an organic well.

[Brian Callan]

The first thing I would say to AI is how do you fix crime ridden cities? How do you do that? How do you do that? Ethically?

[Joe Rogan]

You may not like the answer it gives you.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I don't want it to give.

[Joe Rogan]

You might say there are men with hoods.

[Brian Callan]

Here it is. Let's play this. No problem.

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Brian Callan]

I was gluten free. In 15 years I've been gluten free in.

[Joe Rogan]

Canada. America can't eat it.

[Jamie]

That's because in America what we call.

[Brian Callan]

Bread can't even be considered food in parts of Europe.

[Jamie]

See, here in America, it's not so much the gluten as what we've done to the grain.

[Brian Callan]

About 200 years ago, we started stripping.

[Jamie]

The bran and germ or the fiber in nutrients to make flour shelf stuff stable, also nutritionally dead.

[Brian Callan]

Because the nutrients were gone, we enriched it with folic acid, which a large majority of the population can't even metabolize.

[Jamie]

Therefore, many people experience fatigue, anxiety, hyperactivity and inflammation.

[Brian Callan]

But then the bread wasn't white enough, so they bleached it with chlorine gas. The bread didn't rise enough, so they.

[Jamie]

Added a carcinogen called potassium bromate, which is banned in several countries like Europe.

[Brian Callan]

The UK and even China. Then we wanted to ramp up production, so we started using glyphosate to dry.

[Jamie]

Out the wheat before harvest, causing endocrine disruption and damaging your gut.

[Brian Callan]

So now you're bloated, brain fogged, tired and blamed gluten. But gluten is just the scapegoat.

[Jamie]

The real issue is ultra processed, chemically altered, bleached, bromated, fake vitamin filled wheat soaked in glyphosate.

[Joe Rogan]

This isn't bread.

[Brian Callan]

This is. I need some. That's it.

[Joe Rogan]

I like that. They had sweet dreams playing in the background there. Yeah, I mean, I will look when I'm back in Australia, I will look forward to having normal bread, human bread.

[Brian Callan]

Up so up food. It's the same thing that they've done to our governmental systems. Same thing. It's like money. Money gets in these whores. They ruin it all.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you got, I mean whores. You like? It's okay. Money is also great.

[Brian Callan]

Oh yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not against money.

[Brian Callan]

You should be.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm a little bit against money.

[Brian Callan]

Are you? In what way?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't want to make decisions in my life about how to. What would result in having more money. You've got to be able to provide for your family. But I think you see enough people in this business sell out and people have really lost the language of selling out. Like it's gone like in the 90s. Everyone. That guy's a fucking sellout. That guy's doing, you know, you do the wrong sort of music on an album and people would accuse you of selling out. So I'm not advocating for that. But like, I mean, there are definitely, there are people out there Doing ads for things that are. It's nuts that they're getting away with it. Like people who do. Like rich guys who are doing gambling commercials. And I don't mind gambling. I'm open to gambling. I enjoy gambling.

[Brian Callan]

We do get commercials. We do gambling commercials on this podcast.

[Joe Rogan]

And I may be open to doing it myself in the future. But when I do see we do DraftKings Samuel. Ah. I don't even mind that as much.

[Brian Callan]

Why is it different than Samuel Jackson reading for a gambling.

[Joe Rogan]

I might. I don't know DraftKings enough. But there are things like in Australia we've got bet365 which is like they've turned it into a social media app. Gambling software.

[Brian Callan]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's where you go to socialize and gamble at the same time. And that does give me a strong ick factor.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like it's your building.

[Brian Callan]

Talking about that. The problem in Australia with gambling as well.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I don't see anything. When I look at bookie apps in America and things, it's just like I'd like to put a bet on that and I get money if it wins and not if it loses. We're in a more strange advanced. We've been doing it for a bit longer and it's further down the line.

[Brian Callan]

DraftKings has all that kind of stuff where you could bet on weird prop bets.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And you can do multi bets and things like that. But I don't think it has affected the character of men in this country the same way that it's done in Australia.

[Brian Callan]

We have more freedom. You guys are little children over.

[Joe Rogan]

It's also our only outlet.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That's gambling. Like I think we out gamble Singapore. We're number one in the world per capita now. We put you to shame. But like you guys can hate.

[Brian Callan]

It's a sign of people in distress.

[Joe Rogan]

Gambling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

The country's in distress. That's why you guys have a gambling problem.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean we really have a fucking huge gambling problem.

[Brian Callan]

It's that bad. It's really that bad.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just it makes it hard to have a conversation with a guy.

[Brian Callan]

Really. Look at 72.8% of Australian adults gambled within the previous 12 months. 80.5% for men and 66.2% for women. Look at 38% of Australian gambled at least once per week. 48% of men and 28% for women.

[Joe Rogan]

28% for women. When you see a woman who's betting on sports, something inside of you goes, what? What Are you doing having fun? This is our horrible thing.

[Brian Callan]

No, lift the lady's fuck up too.

[Joe Rogan]

I have been to your poke rooms. In America, that's what we call them. Like at a casino, we call them pokey rooms.

[Brian Callan]

Pokey, yeah, the pokies, like the raw fish.

[Joe Rogan]

You're like poking. You're like poking on the machine all the time. That's why we call them the pokies. But like in America, you'll be at a casino and the floor has all these fruit machines.

[Brian Callan]

Pokies.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but like people are still like smiling and talking to each other. In every pub in Australia, there's like a back room where sad, twisted old people are just like sitting in front of a machine for hours.

[Brian Callan]

You get that in Vegas too. It's just extracting money. It's sucking your bright lights in there and extracting money. And it makes your dull life a little bit more exciting.

[Jamie]

20% of the world's slot machines are in Australia.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Yo, you guys are buck wild.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it's.

[Brian Callan]

That's how they keep you broke.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm against it. But also, yeah, if I've had a couple of drinks and it's a Friday night, I'll go and play the Indian dreaming.

[Brian Callan]

Well, here's the thing. You're smart enough to not get fully addicted to playing those machines. But not everybody is.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's a smart thing. I think I have enough going on in my life. Definitely with the intelligence. There are smarter people than me who.

[Brian Callan]

Have been lost to it, but that's all it. Right. Like you don't need a distraction. Your distraction is the thing you're enjoying in your life. You've got a lot of things going on in your life. You don't want to do that.

[Joe Rogan]

If I wasn't doing stand up and if I wasn't doing. If I didn't have a loving family.

[Brian Callan]

And you had a shitty job.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, man, when I did have a shitty job, I was door to door salesman and I was buying the scratch off cards every day. Every single day I would buy them. And I didn't know why I was doing it at first.

[Brian Callan]

It's like a hit.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I'm knocking on people's doors and trying to give them cable television when they don't want it. I am gonna need a little something to help. Oh man. I think I started drinking in the afternoons.

[Brian Callan]

Really? Because you hated it.

[Joe Rogan]

I hated it. It made me loose. When I went to knock the doors and try and give gen, they would take us out to like the worst Remote communities, because they'd go. These people will buy. They like the. The nasty the neighborhood. The more people are likely to buy from a salesman, the less they have in their life. You try and go to a middle class neighborhood, no one would talk to you. You'd go out to weird, remote poverty. And boy, I sold a lot of cable television.

[Brian Callan]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Was it dangerous?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, because you're knocking on the doors of like. I went up to Port Augusta in the worst neighborhoods there. This is like hours and hours away from a major city. And the company I was doing it for, like, said, let's. We looked up the poverty statistics and we're sending you to the worst possible places because you'll. You'll sell more there. Matt. No, people were. I remember there was an Irish lady who got attacked who was working with us. I don't think I ever. I had, like, weird things happen where people. You'd have to go into someone's house and there'd be, like, weird stuff on the floor. I went into one person's house and there was a woman passed out on the floor, bleeding. And they were all just like, she's fine. Don't worry about her.

[Brian Callan]

Why was she bleeding? From what part?

[Joe Rogan]

Her head.

[Brian Callan]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, she was apparently all right, and she was. But she was passed out. I don't know what happened.

[Brian Callan]

What do you mean, all right? She's bleeding from her head and she's small.

[Joe Rogan]

It wasn't like a huge amount of blood, but she was on the floor.

[Brian Callan]

And there was blood, and they just assumed she was okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I made it out of their quick smile. They were like, she's fine. Don't you worry about it. I don't know why this is coming back to me now. I haven't thought about that in about 10 years.

[Brian Callan]

Did you think that maybe they hit her and then maybe you were a witness to it? Or maybe they killed her and they were gonna have to kill you?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know why this is dribbling out of me now. I definitely saw her. She had a beard, I remember. And she was. They were very calm about it. They were relaxed, and they wanted to keep having a conversation about buying the cable television and how that would let them watch the football and that she was okay and I wasn't to worry about her. And I think I got out of there and kept knocking on people's doors. I don't think I called anybody.

[Brian Callan]

Whoa.

[Joe Rogan]

Sorry. I didn't know where that was buried.

[Brian Callan]

Maybe she's fine. Maybe she's a drama queen. She Hit her head on purpose and then fell down.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, I was seeing a lot of passed out people in the streets there. Drunks and drugs and. Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Did you ever almost get robbed or anything?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think I got threatened. There was a guy who was not. Who was having sex one time and was very unhappy that I was. Kept knocking on his door and I thought he was gonna hit me. But that was about as bad as it got.

[Brian Callan]

Did he come out with his dong hanging out?

[Joe Rogan]

He was grabbing his pants in a weird way. His. His lady had been at home and she said, come back when my husband's home. Home at this time, and then he can decide if he's gonna buy it. And then I came back right at that time and I think he just got right home and started right now, let's do it. And then we go. Get the fuck out of. Australian men being angry is. We go into a new gear of, like, lack of control.

[Brian Callan]

Well, it's a prison population originally and we like that.

[Joe Rogan]

We don't want to be free. We want a nice warden who's gonna take care of it for us.

[Brian Callan]

But you don't.

[Joe Rogan]

Mm. No. There are many things that are upsetting me about going back.

[Brian Callan]

You gotta become king of Australia going back.

[Joe Rogan]

If they'll have me. I'm thinking of running for the Senate.

[Brian Callan]

You might win.

[Joe Rogan]

I've got policy. The Senate's more winnable in Australia. Cause they seem like.

[Brian Callan]

Are you seriously thinking about running for the Senate?

[Joe Rogan]

We have like 12 people from each state one day. It's my fantasy, really. In each state, there's like 12 people who get to be the senator from there. So you. And in a double dissolution, you only need like 8% of the vote to get into the state. And if you're in a small state, that's not a huge number of people. So we get wacky people going to the Senate. And it effectively has the same job that the American Senate has. Like, it's a huge amount of power and you get to veto things. You get to do inquiries into stuff. Yeah, we get. We've had. Pauline Hanson is there at the moment. She's been there for a while. We had Jackie Lambie for a long time. We get nutty, interesting people in the Senate. It's the only bit where a bit of life and colour gets into our politics because we've got. Yeah. Our house, our lower house is not as exciting as yours. You get more. You get. What's it, Jasmine Crockett. Yeah, you get Jasmine Crocketts in Your parliament, we don't get. Not as much.

[Brian Callan]

How locked down is politics in Australia?

[Joe Rogan]

So lockdown.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And there's a. So it's. It's not. First you guys vote and you just go first past the post. And if you get, you know, if someone gets 50% of the vote, that's it. They've got it. We do ranked voting. So it's like you put in six. There's six people. You put them in order, and then like, kind of the least bad one, the one that the least number of people dislike gets in. So you get really boring people. And also, the parties don't primary. And this is. I keep talking about how this is great in America. You're, like, the only country that does this.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that was why it was a real problem that the Democrats didn't do it.

[Joe Rogan]

They didn't do it at. Yes. For the presidency.

[Brian Callan]

They didn't do it legitimately. But since 2016.

[Joe Rogan]

But on a local level, someone.

[Brian Callan]

Like in 2016, it wasn't legitimate.

[Joe Rogan]

AOC can get in to be her.

[Brian Callan]

Sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, that's. Even. That level of public involvement is globally unheard of. No one else is doing that.

[Brian Callan]

Right. Fetterman. Those kind of people.

[Joe Rogan]

Fetterman should not like you just look on a paper. There's no way the Democrats wanted him to be their guy. There's no way the people in charge of that party said, I think this is a guy who's gonna toe the party line.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I think once he got in, he became much more aware of how corrupt the system was. Like, talking to him was interesting. He's a very nice guy, by the way. Like, a real genuine nice guy. And I've run into him in other places. I ran into him at the inauguration. He was wearing a Carhartt hoodie and shorts at the inauguration. I'm not bullshitting. I gave him a big hug. He's a sweet guy. Like, a genuinely sweet guy. And I think he got in that system. And he's like, hey, this is not what I like. That guy's been doing, like, charity work his whole life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Like a genuinely good person. And he got into it. He's like, this is not what I signed up for. This is. This whole thing is fucking crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, when he. He also had the brain thing happen before. Had a stroke. And then he. I watched that debate that he won. Like, I don't know. How bad is it Dr. Oz that he was up against.

[Brian Callan]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

That's gotta hurt. When you go up against a guy who temporarily can't Talk at all.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, well, he has a struggle communicating, but I don't think the struggle.

[Joe Rogan]

He's way better now.

[Brian Callan]

Yes, but I don't think the struggle is a thinking thing. I think it's a communication thing. And it's also like, he loses track of what you just said. So, like, he has to have an iPad. So the iPad listens to what you're saying, translates it, writes it out, dictates it, and then he looks to it occasionally.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Brian Callan]

He's like, I'm sorry, what did you ask me? And then I'll have to repeat the question. But it's not that he's not there. It's just. There's a misfiring, but when. When it fires correctly. He's very reasonable. He's very rational, very smart guy, and I think a really good guy. And I think he opened up a lot of people's eyes like, well, there it is possible for someone to get in on either side and just be rational and just have rational positions on things and saying, I'm not gonna just vote the way everybody votes, because I don't agree with that. I think. Yeah, I think there's a much more nuanced view of the world. And so a lot of people, like, on the right like him because he broke party lines.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I remember there was like, Obama came in and tried to do that immediately when he was a senator. And I was reading a thing about how, like, people just took him aside and said, you absolutely don't fucking do that. You have to stop doing that now. Okay? We want you to be the future of this party. Shut up. But there must be huge pressures on people not to be individuals there.

[Brian Callan]

There was huge pressures on Tulsi Gabbard to not even communicate with people on the other side. She was like, bring them cookies and shit and just be nice. She's like. Like, sweet lady. She just wanted to be friends with everybody. And they were like, we don't do it that way.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, John McCain seemed to do a lot of weird. He would hang out. He would be on both sides of the aisle. People liked him. There are a couple of individuals.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, there's a couple individuals that have made, like, little crossovers, you know, a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

And, you know, you could ban the party system. I'd be open to that.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you need more than two. That's the real problem. Yeah, the real problem is there's only two legitimate ones. If someone's. And if you vote Libertarian, you're essentially voting protest. You're saying these Guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And the Green Party, I've done the.

[Brian Callan]

Libertarian thing a few times. It's like you're just saying these guys. But then if you can't. Like a two party system is so easy to rig. I mean, but could you rig a five party system? Could you. If you had seven parties, could you rig that? I don't know. You know, and the thing is, like, you have the House and you have Congress. It's like the two party thing is going to be so tough to untangle. You know, it would take some radically popular person who went independent, who tried legs.

[Joe Rogan]

Roosevelt.

[Brian Callan]

Ross Perot.

[Joe Rogan]

Ross Perot.

[Brian Callan]

Ross Perot fucked it up.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he came close. But Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt, he got real close.

[Brian Callan]

Right. But that was a long time ago and he was Teddy Roosevelt.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but he won seat. He won states, I think. I think he got whole states.

[Brian Callan]

That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

The Dixiecrats did it, but they were never going to pick up that many states.

[Brian Callan]

It would have to be someone like that, someone that was like, loved by a giant percentage of the population. Like if some. Let's make up a fictional person. Some amazing. Oprah. If Oprah becomes president or wants to run for president. And everybody's like. Because you remember there was a thing during the Trump administration, the first administration, where I think NBC tweeted, this is our president. And they showed a photo of Oprah. See if you can find that. I'm pretty sure that's true. And I remember thinking, like, this is so crazy that we're looking for another famous person to counteract the famous person.

[Joe Rogan]

They wanted the Rock.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Oh, they talked to the Rock.

[Joe Rogan]

They came to the Rock.

[Brian Callan]

They came to the Rock to try to get him to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, I don't know what the Rock's politics are.

[Brian Callan]

He's, you know, a kind guy who's probably very left on certain things, but also very disciplined and obviously really admires and believes in hard work and dedication. He'll be a great president if he wanted to do it. Tweet on future Oprah Presidency not meant to be political statement. Okay. What they said on Monday that a tweet touting Oprah Winfrey as our future President during the 75 Golden Globe Awards was not meant to be a political statement. Of course it is.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

You literally said president. That makes it political. Our in all capital letters. All this the only one that's capitalized.

[Joe Rogan]

I really thought it could have been Kanye for a while there.

[Brian Callan]

He could have made it.

[Joe Rogan]

His policies were. Some of them were great. Some of them were Genuinely good.

[Brian Callan]

It's in reference to a joke made during the monologue and not meant to be a political statement. We have since removed the tweet. Okay, so there was a joke, but it was still a political statement. Come on. Even if it was like in reference to the joke, you saying that in all caps, our president. It's still a political statement.

[Joe Rogan]

They've got to find somebody. I mean, just for the future of this. JD Vance can talk to people. I've seen long form interviews with him where he actually seems like a normal human being.

[Brian Callan]

I think there's a lot of people pushing James Talarico now.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Brian Callan]

You know, we had him on the podcast too, to talk to him because.

[Joe Rogan]

I felt he's the Texas guy.

[Brian Callan]

He's a Texas guy who has some really important things to say, particularly about the potential for a religious, like a theocracy in Texas and that there's these very wealthy Christian fundamentalists that are driving their. This like multi billionaire guys that are driving this. And that's how the Ten Commandments got in schools. And he is a very religious man and he does not believe the Ten Commandments should be in schools. He believes that if you put the Ten Commandments in schools, it's actually going to push people away from Christianity because you're shoving it in their face. And he's like. And it's also disrespectful to all the other religions. You don't have their tenants and commandments.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you seen the Ten Commandments in the schools?

[Brian Callan]

I have not.

[Joe Rogan]

We went out to look at some of the schools and it's fun because they're like, they don't just put them up dryly on the wall. Like they have pictures of all the.

[Brian Callan]

Things, all the things you're doing, like sin.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. This is weird when it comes to like, don't covet your neighbor's wife. And there has to be like some weird little sexy picture or something.

[Brian Callan]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Is she like bending over in the garden?

[Joe Rogan]

I think it was like a woman going, oh, yeah, it was. That was a strange one.

[Brian Callan]

Well, how weird is that? They have to draw it, I think too.

[Joe Rogan]

Stupid language.

[Brian Callan]

You gotta draw it.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it was in like the Spanish class where they had like, like they had it written in Spanish, the Ten Commandments.

[Brian Callan]

Anyway, Talarico is interesting, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

He had a very bizarre argument about abortion that I felt like that doesn't jive with how most people view Christianity.

[Joe Rogan]

What was he.

[Brian Callan]

Well, he felt. What did he exactly say? That was like super controversial. Jamie. He Said, like, somehow that you think that it could be biblically permissible.

[Joe Rogan]

I've heard this before. I've heard people say that. I don't think it.

[Brian Callan]

It doesn't seem to make sense. If you really want to live your life biblically, it doesn't make sense.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is lefty. Christians are always, like, they have to find out. Like, people will go, there's nothing. There's nothing in the Bible. There's nothing in scripture that says homosexuality is wrong. And you're like, yeah, okay, but like, what are we. We arguing that in, like, you know, 2 B.C. jerusalem, it was just chill to be a gay guy? And they just, Just never wrote it down for some reason. Like, I'm not saying, like, as to how people want to live, that's fine. But don't, like, come in and say the religion insists that people be gay or that, like, the trans thing is actually fine in the Bible because it never says you shouldn't be trans. It's like the absence of something in an old book that hadn't occurred to people is not an argument for its permissibility. Does that make sense?

[Brian Callan]

There is talk of a man lieth with a man being an abomination.

[Joe Rogan]

And then they do, but then they go, that's a bad about. That's about boys. It's not about men. We've got a very special translation that only we understand. Is that what they say?

[Brian Callan]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. This is always about boys. This is never about two.

[Brian Callan]

But it says, man lie with another man.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, I don't agree with them, but it's all the. Like, I'd always. I. I think if you're going to have a religion, you should, like, not just try and twist the religion to be exactly what you think.

[Brian Callan]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

It should be.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, that's kind of the point of religion, is that. That it's something bigger and stranger than you that you're going to allow, like, you're going to develop as a person with it rather than correcting it.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I think if you look historically, just in this country, the attitude that we had about gay people in this country was terrible. Like in the 1930s and 40s and 50s, it was terrible, right? And then somewhere along the line, there's. There's the gay rights movement, and then ultimately, in modern times, gay marriage. So there's this progression where people realize, like, hey, they're just gay. Like, it's always existed, but people had to hide it forever. Like, you know the Turing Test story, right? Alan Turing, the guy who invented the.

[Joe Rogan]

As to whether the AI. You can tell if it's a person.

[Brian Callan]

Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that guy was fed chemical castration drugs because he was gay in England. England in the 1950s. Right. So at some point in time, I think you have to take into consideration, like, how long being gay was punished before people eventually just got to this realization, like, you mean enough gay people. You know, enough gay people. You have a gay kid, whatever. You realize, like, some people are just gay.

[Joe Rogan]

There are obviously people who are attracted to people of the same sex a hundred percent.

[Brian Callan]

That's all it is. And it's like you have to look at things through a cultural lens as much as you have to look at. Through a biblical lens. Because it's not all God's word. It's God's word written down by people. And some of it is, like. Some of it is just so that's.

[Joe Rogan]

Very Catholic of you. Yeah, that's the Catholic coming out.

[Brian Callan]

You have to look at it that way. It's like, there's just so much in it that doesn't make any sense.

[Joe Rogan]

There's context in this tradition, and there's also translations. This is what I like about the Catholic. I became a Catholic, like, eight years ago. Seven, nine. It was a number of years ago. I'm forgetting how many years. But I had been, like, sort of nothing and then sort of a Unitarian and then. But I like this thing of, like.

[Brian Callan]

What brought you from sort of nothing to belief.

[Joe Rogan]

I'd always believed there was something, but then I started going to Mass. Cause a friend was going. And I. When I was on the road years before, I would, like, be off on the road on a Sunday and have nothing to do. So I went to mega churches for fun because they were very funny and very strange. So, like, I went, what are mega.

[Brian Callan]

Churches like in Australia?

[Joe Rogan]

We. We invented it. We got it going.

[Brian Callan]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Hillsong is that. You guys probably invented it. But we took it to another level. We did Hillsong, which is Hillsong. Hillsong was the biggest one by far. Justin Bieber was a Hillsong guy.

[Brian Callan]

That's Australian.

[Joe Rogan]

That's Australian.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Joe Rogan]

Australian New Zealand guys. And they're like guitar music and the smoke machines and they're doing this.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, and you guys brought that over to America.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I'm very sorry. Sorry.

[Jamie]

Wow.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not a big. But I would. I would turn up there or like. Or a little Baptist church or something. But I would shop around and try, you know, who's got something going on but the megachurch. Has offended me more than anything. It was like whatever is happening here is weird and gross and I don't like it. Like they would have two pastors come out and they'd like riff and banter together and they. It was like a breakfast radio show. They're going like. And they'd have like big projectors and I started going to the. I was, I went to the Latin mass and it was like, oh, this is a very strange ancient ritual with like bells and I don't understand what anyone is saying.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And I just wanted to keep going to that. I love it. I love it. And the organ and the choir.

[Brian Callan]

I think you made a really good point too about people coming in to this candle lit room and everything's beautiful and ornate and just that alone probably has a profound effect on your sight. Yeah. They must have known that, right? They must have known that when they're creating these incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

A stained glass window.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You haven't looked at a picture or a television screen ever.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

And then you go into a building where there is light shining out of a man's face and it's Jesus.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's statues in him.

[Joe Rogan]

Blood.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, the throat. He's got. He's on the cross right in front of you with the thorns dripping blood and like holy.

[Joe Rogan]

This is what I mean though, about losing where it's okay with the AI. That's the Catholic thing. They always put him on the. He's always suffering.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And at the mega churches they take him off, they go. It's a big plus sign out the front. What do you know? Like at a Protestant church they will have, they'll have a cross. But there's no one dying on that cross. It's just empty. It's just empty.

[Brian Callan]

The only Catholics that have Jesus actually.

[Joe Rogan]

Nailed to the orthodox do it as well. But like all the Protestant megachurch people, they never show it. That's interesting because they're winners. They want to go like we're increasing, we're getting more stuff and I don't want to exaggerate, but prosperity gospel people.

[Brian Callan]

Lenny Bruce had a great joke about.

[Joe Rogan]

That was his.

[Brian Callan]

He had a great joke about Jesus coming back and seeing you wearing a cross.

[Joe Rogan]

Hold on.

[Brian Callan]

He said it's like having an electric chair around your neck.

[Joe Rogan]

Was that Lenny Bruce?

[Brian Callan]

Uhuh. And then Bill Hicks had a version of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

Bill Hicks was like. It's like going up to Jackie with a rifle pendant on.

[Joe Rogan]

We're thinking of him, Jackie. I remember that bit.

[Jamie]

The oldest stained glass windows in the world. 7th century, yo.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I'm about to.

[Brian Callan]

Yo.

[Jamie]

Germany. Bavaria.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Brian Callan]

They figured it out. They're like, we got to make this place more colorful, bring in more people. They didn't have pyrotechnics back then. They've got to figure out a way to make it more. Because, like, if you see beautiful ancient cathedrals, like, one of the things that I really loved about Italy is you could go to these ancient churches and go and look around in them, and there's, like, amazing artwork. Amazing like that. Just the craftsmanship of constructing these, this incredible building. When you go inside of them, it feels like something bigger than you has created this. This is more beautiful and ornate than anything you ever see in your village. Your village is filled with, like, boring ass houses and, like, little tables and little chairs, and everyone's sitting around eating spaghetti. And then you go to this place, and this place is insane. And there's candles and the smells, and you do this and you put the money in the basket.

[Joe Rogan]

That's how I felt when I started showing up. That it was some weird alien. It feels like thousands of years old when they're doing it in Latin and the priest isn't facing you, he's facing a wave. Like, you're all doing something together, right? And it's mysterious.

[Brian Callan]

Have you been to the Vatican?

[Joe Rogan]

Never.

[Brian Callan]

Ooh, you should go.

[Joe Rogan]

I would like to.

[Brian Callan]

You need to go. You see, you should just see St. Peter's Basilica in the flesh.

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Brian Callan]

It's beyond comprehension. It took hundreds of years to make. The craftsmanship is so exquisite. It's like the artwork is so incredible. You walk. First of all, it's massive. I mean, massive and perfect. You walk around, you're like, what the fuck were you guys doing? Like, who made this?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's number one.

[Brian Callan]

How long did this take?

[Joe Rogan]

That was Shane's reaction. Every time Shane's talking about it goes, yeah, we're number one.

[Brian Callan]

One with number one, bro. Look, no one else can pull up some images of, like, look at what.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the wobbly. The wobbly column.

[Brian Callan]

God, it's so incredible, man. It's so incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

And then it shits me when, like, the aft Vatican ii. I don't dismiss it. I don't say it was wrong. But when people, you know, like a modern church and it looks like. Like there's a, you know, a carpet, like, straight walls, no art on there. That's love.

[Brian Callan]

Do you know how much time it takes to make something like that? I mean, that is fantastic. Artwork. When you walk in that place, it's breathtaking. Like you, you walk in, you just go, wow, look how small those people are.

[Joe Rogan]

Look.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, look at the people. Those people are walking. Dude. Look how tall that ceiling is. Look at the light.

[Joe Rogan]

Acoustically you can. The guy giving the homily and spit, people can hear him.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like it's built in such a way. Like people used to know something about acoustics where you could. That is great.

[Brian Callan]

I mean, that's so psychedelic. It really is. Just looking at the, the geometric patterns on the columns and the ceiling, it's like, it makes you feel like you're tripping. So if you were there and you like walk into this place and you lived in some boring ass house, you would really feel like you're in God's house. I mean, if it, it feels like God's house when you're in. Yeah, that's how good. That's how much they believe. They, they didn't, they didn't cop out on this at all. They went all in. That one right there, look at that.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't like it when people go like, the church should melt everything down and give it to the poor. Like this is a gift to the poor.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're poor, you get to go in there and look at that. That's open to everybody. They're not putting that in a private.

[Brian Callan]

They should never take that down. Whatever they did to do it, maybe they shouldn't do it again wherever they got.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a better planet for having it there.

[Brian Callan]

Well, well, I mean, the Vatican controlled armies for a long ass time and it's nuts that it's its own country. That's weird. So they can keep the pedophiles there. No, they don't have to export them.

[Joe Rogan]

They've tried so hard to crack down on the pedophiles.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, good job, guys. So crazy that one section of religion is commonly associated with pedophilia.

[Joe Rogan]

The press was real bad because the scandals were real and there were lots of them. But I would say, I mean, when I talk to priests and I look at Catholic schools and what they've got in place at the moment, I would feel like they're so on top of it. So on top of it. But there are definitely parts of society that in five, 10 years things will start coming.

[Brian Callan]

Listen, man, they catch pedophiles at Nickelodeon, you know? Yeah, they catch pedophiles wherever you see.

[Joe Rogan]

I get access.

[Brian Callan]

There's pedophiles everywhere. There's. There's a certain percentage of our society that's been sick and they're sexually attracted to kids. And it's a sick, horrible thing that's real, you know, and it exists all over the place. But the problem is it exists, like, synonymously with the Catholic Church. Like, people think, because they've hidden those people, they've shielded those people from prosecution, they've taken them and moved them to new places where they molest more kids.

[Joe Rogan]

I agree. But I would also say it's the only institution that it was. It was early to declare that that was wrong. Like, before the Catholic Church, you had a pagan society where that was not. It was not questionable that that was acceptable.

[Brian Callan]

Acceptable.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, in terms of. Like, it introduces the standard by which you can go, it's wrong to be a pedophile. It's wrong to have a boy lover, because the Greeks and the Romans were getting up to it.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not an excuse for people's behavior, but it's part of human nature that's been with us for a long time.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I think it was part of their nature also when they would go on army camping and there was no women for years at a time, they.

[Joe Rogan]

Just each other in the legs.

[Brian Callan]

They each other in the legs.

[Joe Rogan]

Intercural. I got a trouble.

[Brian Callan]

Squeeze their legs together and use their legs like a titty.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

Nice.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it was disrespectful to the soldier with. To put in his butt. He still has to fight the next day.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, really?

[Joe Rogan]

You don't want him having a mobility issue.

[Brian Callan]

So they're just coming each other's legs in the legs. That's not that bad. That's just helping out a bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Worse things happen on buds now. Let's see.

[Brian Callan]

But that was. They also had the concept that if you were fighting next side beside your lover, you would fight harder to protect them than just another man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, we're not getting couples to join up to the military now, though.

[Brian Callan]

Well, right now we're not, because everyone's soft. But if we were at war and you know how many guys would go gay?

[Joe Rogan]

Draft men and women.

[Brian Callan]

You know how many guys would go gay if you gave them three years with no women?

[Joe Rogan]

You know, you can just draft a married couple. You're in the same battalion, military men.

[Brian Callan]

Hard as a rock all the time, filled with testosterone, running off to some part of the world to kill people, no access to pussy for three years. It's not gonna be zero percent go gay. It's gonna be a number.

[Joe Rogan]

I think numbers are huge. There was that Test after World War II.

[Brian Callan]

See how long it takes for you to go gay.

[Joe Rogan]

They did a huge. Well, kinda, because everyone had just come back from being, you know, like five.

[Brian Callan]

Years together in the war, gaying it out.

[Joe Rogan]

And they ran a big. It was like a survey on sexuality and returned servicemen. And it was some huge number of, like, gay guys. It was not just gay guys, but it was also like, bestiality was way bigger because a lot of these guys had grown up on farms and things. And so they're asking like, have you ever had sex with a chicken? And something like, I'm gonna get the numbers wrong. But it's something like 12% of guys being like, yeah, yes, of course. I don't want to be getting that wrong, but I think.

[Brian Callan]

How many women fucked the chicken? Zero. You know?

[Joe Rogan]

No, there's one lady in Thailand to this day.

[Brian Callan]

She isn't her idea.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not out of love. She's not an amateur.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it wasn't her idea. The guy that fucked the chicken, that was totally his idea.

[Joe Rogan]

This is a big thing in your act. This is a through line in your act. Is that like, you're always like, men are the degenerate ones in these, for sure.

[Brian Callan]

Well, that is a fact. That's a fact. I mean, we start all the wars. We're responsible for most of the murders. Yeah, yeah. Well, one of the funny ones I had a bit about back in the day, I actually had a conversation with this guy. He's like, do you know that statistically speaking, more men get raped than women? I'm like, right. By other men.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Idiot. I'm like, they're not getting raped by cheerleaders.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that true?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because most rape victims are men.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. When you take into account prison.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Brian Callan]

See, you take into account, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Sexual assault, which is just accepted in this.

[Brian Callan]

I guess it is.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like that's part of the punishment that everybody knows is going on in prison. No real efforts to stamp out.

[Brian Callan]

Well, the crazy thing is woke got so far that they let males identify as females, intact males, and go into female prisons because they're air quotes. Trans.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Which is the craziest loophole. Like you would never think of all the things they restrict you from doing in jail. You can't even have a phone, but you can go fuck girls and pretend you're a girl.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, once you know that exists as a loophole, you'd be very silly not to take it also, wouldn't you?

[Brian Callan]

You're dealing with people that are Fucking liars. They're prisoners. They're in prison. They're criminals. You're saying they rob banks and sell meth, but they wouldn't lie about their gender. That is an honorable.

[Joe Rogan]

Has this been stopped now?

[Brian Callan]

No. In California, there's. At the time that I read last, there was 47 biological males that are housed in women's prisons with hundreds on the waiting list.

[Joe Rogan]

But this is happening in.

[Brian Callan]

It happens in Canada. There's a lot of it in Canada.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, schools is a weird one where like there are single sex schools and then they'll have a trans person and they'll admit them. But like, like you can, you can be a M to F and they'll accept you into a girls school. But also if you're a girl at the girls school, you say, I'm a boy now. They'll keep you at the school. So, like, which, just ideologically, which is it? Cause if you are a single sex school, then if a girl says, I'm transitioning to a boy, you should have to kick them out. You say, we believe that you are a boy. Get out of here. You don't belong here. You know what I'm saying? I don't think there's an intellectual consistency with any of this. It's just people going, this is making me uncomfortable. Please do not get angry at me. Yes, I'll give you whatever you want.

[Brian Callan]

There's that. And then there's also people that really do feel like they're in the wrong box body. Right. So those people have always existed. So the question is, what is that? And is it possible that someone would lie about that in order to gain access to the women's room? And that's true. Yeah, that's a fact. So you always have to look at that. Like, as soon as you say, oh, you have to believe them. Okay? You believe a murderer who's in jail and you're gonna pay for his boob job now, okay? And you're gonna let him go into the women's prison. Because that's what's happening in Canada, right? They're doing that kind of shit.

[Joe Rogan]

Doesn't everyone feel like they're in the wrong? Like being instantiated in flesh is a weird thing. Like it's uncomfortable to have a body. It aches. It doesn't do the things you tell it to do all the time. Like we're all alienated from our body. And there was an explanation for that for a long time. Like with the gen, with the trans spike, that, like, this is what the Thing that is wrong with you, this is why you're uncomfortable in your body. But I think the numbers of collapse in the last.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you know, when they collapsed, it coincided with Elon buying Twitter.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, I didn't know that.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, yeah. The post 2024 numbers have dropped off.

[Joe Rogan]

A cliff when you stopped offering that as an explanation.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. Well, not only that, but you could talk about it now. Whereas before, if you literally. If you wrote on Twitter that a male could never be a female, you'd be banned. Yeah, you would. Like, that's what happened to Megan Murphy. They banned her. They banned her from Twitter by saying a man is never a woman.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I remember they were banning people for saying what J.K. rowling had said. But they're like, we can't get rid of JK Rowling cause she's too big.

[Brian Callan]

It would be completely. It was completely insane because you should be able to talk about anything. And if you're wrong about that, other people are gonna correct you or have a better argument than you have. And that's how you figure out who's right and who's wrong. Wrong. And for the longest time, there was no talk of d. Transitioners being upset. There was no talk of these things are actually chemical castration drugs they used to use on pedophiles. That's what these things are. Rapists and pedophiles used to be forced to take these drugs that you're now giving to prepubescent boys.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Also the new penises are. Oh, God, I don't want to be sent any more of those, bro.

[Brian Callan]

The new penis.

[Joe Rogan]

Shane was sending new penises after talking to you, I've seen that both of them are.

[Brian Callan]

It's genital mutilation. And with a lot of them that these people have these thoughts about being a girl or being a boy. They try. Turns out they're just gay.

[Joe Rogan]

But do you. I mean. But what. All right, theory, possible theory. Theory is that the ruling classes have always wanted eunuchs.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know what I mean? Like, if you're an emperor of China.

[Brian Callan]

You just put on the full tinfoil hat.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, this is my tinfoil hat moment. It's good to have a eunuch advised you because they're calm. We're talking about this before the sex urge is gone and they can just use. Yes.

[Brian Callan]

All dogs are trans.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. And so are we. Is that. Is that the effort? Is that why you want to do it? Is that why we have.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think that's a long term Play that the ruling class are breeding a new eunuch class to advise them and help. Anyway, it's just a theory.

[Brian Callan]

Well, I certainly think it's been accelerated by various special interests, and I think some of them are foreign.

[Joe Rogan]

Foreign.

[Brian Callan]

I think there's. There's a lot. There's real evidence that China and other countries have pushed on social media, like trans ideology.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And also, like, fought against anti trans people and attacked them online. Like, you. You see it like these organized hate groups.

[Joe Rogan]

Not in China, though. Only in America.

[Brian Callan]

In America. Like, doing it in America using different AI programs and. But LGBT issues are just one of the many, many things that they do that with. They do that with immigration, they do that with usaid. They try to disrupt our system by getting us to argue with each other. So they pose as us. Yeah. And argue, you know, and say wild shit.

[Joe Rogan]

And some of that is being added now that on X you can see where people are from.

[Brian Callan]

It's interesting, right?

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it's interesting. Not everybody looks at it, but when you do look at it, you go, oh, you're. You're in Africa. This is kind of crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

You're a white nationalist account in Germany. Yeah. Seems kind of.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, it seems weird. There's a lot of that. Nessa Renee Diresta did some research on that with the Internet Research agency before the 2016 elections when they were talking about how these foreign countries had these things that were set up that were just designed to put posts on Facebook and memes and it was just designed to, like, sway the conversation towards a certain direction.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And she's like. And the funny thing, she saw, like, thousands and thousands of thousands of these memes. She's like, some of them are really funny. Like, they're really funny. Yeah. Who's making these? They're being made in Russia or somewhere.

[Joe Rogan]

This is what this is. When I'm on the New York Times app, it feels like I know what their agenda is all the time. And it's so nice to be like, I know where that's coming from. I know that when I'm on X, it's like there's a lot of reality coming at you at once. And then there's also definitely bots on there doing. And I feel overwhelmed.

[Brian Callan]

It is too overwhelming. I try not to fuck with it anymore. Every time I go on there, I just feel bad. I just feel gross. All of them.

[Joe Rogan]

All of them.

[Brian Callan]

I try to stay off them as much as possible. I feel better when I do. When I have, like a day or two.

[Joe Rogan]

You're in a valuable position of just getting to talk to people who know what's going on. You get to talk to. I remember Christopher Hitchens, someone asked him like, what newspapers do you read? And he said, none. I just talk to people who know things that I want to talk about to who I trust, who know things. You're a very well connected. Not everyone gets to. You can have a phone call with like an expert in something if you want.

[Brian Callan]

That's true. That's a huge plus to doing this. But it's also. You have to find out which expert is really honest. Yeah. You have two different experts. Like if you have a. Some sort of a court case, well, the defense will have an expert and then the prosecution has an expert too and they disagree. So wait a minute, I thought it was all based on fact and logic and science. Like you guys are. Whether it's DNA evidence or all kinds of evidence, there's like experts on both sides. So you're always going to have some sort of dispute. If you have complete. If everybody just like completely agrees with one narrative, there's something probably going on. And generally speaking, what's going on is that they have control over that social media application. Like Blue Sky. Sky.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Blue sky is a perfect example. If you just go on Blue sky and type. There was only two genders banned. You're gone. Yeah, you're over. Like they don't around which is why.

[Joe Rogan]

That one is being allowed I think in Australia.

[Brian Callan]

Australia.

[Joe Rogan]

So we're banning X for the under 16s, but blue sky is fine.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. You're going to turn people into the most radical of progressives.

[Joe Rogan]

But they want, they're saying here are the facts that you can agree on and then you can, you can have your disagreement within that bubble. But you've got to exist within a shared reality.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm. I'm getting freaked out by the New York Times app and I don't like it. Okay. But so they'll have ads in there and this is this. They have ads for the New York Times in the New York Times app. Right.

[Brian Callan]

That doesn't seem smart.

[Joe Rogan]

It's what they're off. They're saying you should buy a friend of yours the New York Times app. Okay. You should pay for them to have it. And then it's like, why should you do that? So you can talk, so you can understand the new. So you can share the world together. Right. They're like, isn't it terrible when someone has different facts to you? Let's all have the Same facts, so that we can know our children again. You should buy your children the New York Times app and bring them under the safe, warm umbrella. And it is. When I'm on there, it's like being in a weird bath or something where it's like a protected zone. I will be deleting it at some point. I enjoy doing the wordle, but it's like I'm just getting a second of. Because I. I've. I've been in Austin for like two years now and most of my news has come through talking to Kurt Metzger in the green room or something. Do you know what I mean? And so I was like, just give me a taste of what like a normie out there is experiencing as reality.

[Brian Callan]

Well, the problem is those normies get indoctrinated just as much as anybody else does. And so they get indoctrinated to thinking that the New York Times is this the golden standard of accurate news reporting and it's not biased and this is the actual story that's going on. And no, that's not always the case.

[Joe Rogan]

I would say, at least on the right, people are getting indoctrinated by like multiple different strange things. Like the actual agreement. You can have arguments and discussions about things and people do in a fight. You've seen that like, meme where it's like, here's right wing thought and it's all over the place. And it's like, here's the left wing thing.

[Brian Callan]

It's like one dot and everything after that is Hitler.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Everything to the right of that's Hillary.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, I've seen those. I. It's weird now that you've seen all these right wing people that are having public feuds.

[Joe Rogan]

It's blown up. It's been a big week.

[Brian Callan]

What's happening? Like, why did everybody lose the plot? It's weird.

[Joe Rogan]

Charlie Kirk was holding something together and now it's real. I think people. I don't. I think he was.

[Brian Callan]

Well, it seems like some of his. From his death out there's a lot of chaos on the right. But is that because of his death? Why are all these people attacking each other? Or is it because there's people out there that are saying wild shit and then other people are being forced to defend them, whether it's Candace Owens or whoever it is.

[Joe Rogan]

I think the conservative movement was always a weird bringing together of about three different things.

[Brian Callan]

What are those things?

[Joe Rogan]

Like foreign policy hawks, social conservatives and big business people. And William F. Buckley, Jr. Is that his name? I'm getting that. Right. But like the National Review, he managed to purge all the John Birch Society people and say this is mainline conservatism going forward. And then Reagan was able to like, dovetail him with that. And there was, There was like a we. There was a coming together of two people who didn't. It didn't make a lot of sense for like a religious conservative and a big city finance guy to share a platform together. But under that project, you could bring them together and that, that it breaks apart and you can see it like there are a couple things really breaking up. Like, where is the right fracturing in Arizona at the moment? It's like Israel is a fault line. There's no holding together the two wings of the conservative movement under Israel anymore, is there? Like the Tucker Carlson wing of that discussion and the Ben Shapiro wing don't seem to be able to harmoniously go in locks.

[Brian Callan]

No, they hate each other.

[Joe Rogan]

They really hate each other. There's a conspiratorial wing and there's like a big business wing that don't want to get along. There are like, these are libertarians and there's conservatives and those. They match up on a couple things, but not a lot of things in terms like, you know, what is a family? What is. What are our values going forward? What should we have? Religious values in the law? A lot of people on the right would say yes. A lot of people on the right would say that's the. The never. No. So unless there's like a unifying, like, I don't wanna say strong man, but like one. Unless there's a unifying figure to bring those two disparate groups together, I think their natural thing is to fight with each other. And that's what's happening now, is that it's the end of the Trump era. He's not gonna run again. He managed to build some sort of coalition around himself. And that's, I think, Mr. Kirk's widow, whose name I don't remember, who had the gold outfit.

[Brian Callan]

Erica Kirk.

[Joe Rogan]

Erica Kirk. I don't watch a lot of the speeches. Cause I get all secondhand. But she's going like, we need to get behind J.D. vance. He's gonna be the future of holding this together. And he's trying to really stay out of it so that they, like, he's not making a call one way or the other. He's trying to allow the two parties.

[Brian Callan]

To duke it out, see who rises.

[Joe Rogan]

I guess he'll see who wins.

[Brian Callan]

Or like, well, that's the thing. Someone has got to win.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Brian Callan]

Like something's gonna. Or they're just gonna just like diffuse the whole right wing movement by being constantly at war with each other where there's no consension.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And this happens on the left as well. Like the left, like the AOC people and the Nancy Pelosi people are not natural bedfellows.

[Brian Callan]

Like what do they have? What's the consensus? Like, what do they agree on? They agree on immigration. They all agree on immigration.

[Joe Rogan]

Kinda. I mean, no, big business people want to want heaps of illegal immigration. Oh, it's cheap labor.

[Brian Callan]

But the big business people, that is true. There's some CEOs that have openly discussed the fact that they need that in order for their business model to work. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You've got like the Pat Buchanan wing of the party going up against the like H.W. bush wing of the party. So I don't even think they can get around that.

[Brian Callan]

Most people would say that having an open border, Most people on the right would say have an open border is a real problem. You need to close the border. If you were a right wing person, you ran on let's open up the border again. We need illegal immigrants, we need the, the labor.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

It would be over. You would never win. Yeah, you would never win.

[Joe Rogan]

You could govern that way, and I think people did for a long time, but you could never have that as your public.

[Brian Callan]

Right. You could let them sneak in, let it slip and slip.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, like. But I could's always saying we're tough on the border. And then you go, yeah, these numbers are very galling.

[Brian Callan]

You definitely weren't. He wasn't tough on. But I also think he wasn't running anything either. You know, I mean, it's hard to imagine. Hard to imagine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. No way. So whoever was running it wanted to keep running it. And that was a real problem. That was a real problem. That's scary because then you let. You realize even though it's crazy to have a president, at least the ideas you voted a president in, but if the president doesn't do anything and it's really a bunch of like, as nutty as Trump is, at least you know he's doing it. Like nobody else is going to put gold all over the White House. You know he's doing that. Nobody's writing those plaques 100% for sure he did the auto pen thing. At the very least, you know it's him doing it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

It. And you hate him. You love him.

[Joe Rogan]

I think he wrote, he wrote that Rob Reiner tweet. I don't think anyone was in his ear going, I think. I think you should take a big stand against Rob Reiner today.

[Brian Callan]

No, he wrote that. He wrote that. But as it was Brennan, Brennan and Clapper, those are the people that had the video with Rob Reiner where he's like, literally talking to two spooks about how it's a real problem that Trump is the president.

[Jamie]

They called the Committee for Russian Investigation or something like that. Rob Reiner did.

[Joe Rogan]

No one apologizes for the Russia stuff.

[Brian Callan]

No, it's crazy what they did.

[Joe Rogan]

The COVID stuff, no one apologizes for.

[Brian Callan]

No, they completely lied. As much as you can hate him about a lot of things that Trump has done, you can't just let people get away with making a fake story about him colluding with Russia. Like, that's a fake story. The Steele dossier was literally, all that stuff was funded by the Clinton campaign. It's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. And the Epstein stuff coming out now is. I mean, we'll see what happens with that.

[Brian Callan]

Well, you guys were talking right before the podcast, said Jamie said there was a big dump. What happened with the big dump? You said there was a big dump today and they fucked up. That was your take. They fucked up.

[Jamie]

The fuck up was people have found out that the redactions weren't really redacted.

[Brian Callan]

Dun, dun, dun.

[Jamie]

That's a big mistake. Like, you can copy and paste and put it in another document and see the redactions.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, like a Photoshop deal. Like, you could get the layers away.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, whoopsies. That's what happens. You get people working for the government that are dorks.

[Jamie]

Then the. Then which is like, this is like steps to this. Yeah, I wasn't following at all.

[Brian Callan]

But.

[Jamie]

The Department of Justice has tweeted a couple interesting things today, starting with this one eight hours ago. So, like 6am or something.

[Brian Callan]

Department of justice has officially released nearly 30,000 more pages of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein. Some of these documents contain untrue and sensationalist claims made against President Trump that were submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election. To be clear, the claims are unfounded and false. And if they had a shred of credibility, they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already. Nevertheless, out of our commitment to the law and transparency, the DOJ is releasing these documents with the large. With the legally required protections for Epstein's victims.

[Jamie]

Some of those documents have been deleted now.

[Brian Callan]

Okay, so they're saying that 30,000 more pages of documents and some of them contain untrue and sensational claims made against President Trump that were submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election. Right, but by who?

[Jamie]

That's. People are just sort of taking it as a grain of salt, saying, like, what? So nobody else. It's all totally untrue about Trump. Nothing. Nobody else.

[Brian Callan]

All the Bill Clinton photos were definitely. The other one was. Come on.

[Jamie]

Picture came out of a letter that seems to be a potential suicide note written by Epstein, written to Larry Nasser. The facts of that. That are strange. There's a postmark which is three or four days after he died.

[Brian Callan]

Wait a minute. Larry Nassar.

[Jamie]

Yeah. It was also in jail.

[Brian Callan]

He's the Olympic guy.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

The doctor that was a pedophile. Yeah.

[Jamie]

It's like a letter writing, like, hey, I know what. You know why I'm in jail? I know why you're in jail.

[Brian Callan]

Boy, that seems weird that he's writing.

[Jamie]

A letter and, like, that starts off saying, if you've gotten this, you know, I took the.

[Brian Callan]

In quotes, short route out, which short route home. Right.

[Jamie]

Yeah. But there's some weird detail. People are like, they said. They're saying this is fake or maybe fake.

[Brian Callan]

Did they get a handwriting expert to analyze it yet?

[Jamie]

Peering doesn't. That's. I started asking the questions like, well, then why. How. Why did it get. Get why to come out? How are.

[Joe Rogan]

You know.

[Brian Callan]

Oh. So the FBI, it says, the FBI has confirmed this alleged letter from Jeffrey Epstein to Larry Nassar is fake. Fake in all caps. Trump wrote that he gets busted by the fake letter. Fake letter was received by the jail and flagged for the FBI at the time. The FBI made this conclusion based on the following facts. The writing does not appear to match Jeffrey Epstein's. The letter was postmarked three days after Epstein's death out of Northern Virginia when he was jailed in New York. The return address did not list the jail where Epstein was held and did not include his inmate number, which is required for outgoing mail. The fake letter serves as a reminder that just because the document is released by the Department of Justice does not make the allegations or claims within the document factual. Nevertheless, the DOJ will continue to release all material required by law. Well, this is how they probably should have done it from the beginning. Right? Release all material.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

And then refute whatever you say is fake. And you say, okay, it didn't have his inmate number. It's not his handwriting. It's fake. It was three days after his death. It was postmarked from Virginia. He was in New York.

[Joe Rogan]

But don't make it look like you're covering it up just right.

[Brian Callan]

Release it.

[Joe Rogan]

Although I will say I have seen on Twitter people complaining about like. Like they're not meant to censor anything due to embarrassment, but when it's like Ghislaine Maxwell's boobs, they will censor it out. And people go, this has been illegally censored it. You must.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

By the law of the United States. Show me her boobs.

[Brian Callan]

I need to see them Areolas.

[Joe Rogan]

Is she. She's in prison in Texas.

[Brian Callan]

You can kind of call it prison. She does yoga, plays cards, hangs out.

[Joe Rogan]

Is she allowed to talk to people?

[Brian Callan]

I don't think so. She's not allowed to podcast, I'm sure, if that's what you're getting at.

[Joe Rogan]

I am. That would be a really exciting podcast.

[Brian Callan]

If everybody wants to die, that would be a really good podcast.

[Joe Rogan]

I think she's just a nice, normal lady.

[Brian Callan]

Do you think Trump on the way out pardons her?

[Joe Rogan]

She's a nice woman. I wish her well. I don't know. It's.

[Brian Callan]

The weird thing is she's in jail for sex trafficking. To who?

[Joe Rogan]

Epstein.

[Brian Callan]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But I was it for that from him. I think it was 16 year old in Florida and it was directly to him. I was briefly. I experimented with being like a non Epstein believer. Really? Yeah. For about two weeks.

[Brian Callan]

What did you think was going on?

[Joe Rogan]

I was like, man, maybe he's just a pervert who liked getting back rubs from 16 year olds and he had famous friends. Cause everyone was like, he's Mossad, he's CIA.

[Brian Callan]

What do you think now?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's obviously something. It's way. I just thought every. Like everyone in the green room was saying he's Masadi. I was like, I could be. Maybe the controversial thing would be to.

[Brian Callan]

Not believe that he's take the contrarian position.

[Joe Rogan]

I just wanted to try experiment with the contrarian position. And it's getting harder and harder to hold. Hold that.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. It seems like the more they dig into his past, the more it feels like he was part of some sort.

[Joe Rogan]

Of intelligence agency or like channeling offshore money for people.

[Brian Callan]

How about the fact that he just got a slap on the wrist during the first case when he caught a case. And then the. Whoever it was was the prosecutor or the judge was told that he was intelligent.

[Joe Rogan]

There was a. Yeah, that's. And then someone retr. I listened to a podcast on it from like some. Some Matthew Schmitz who's Compact magazine and they were like. They were making out that it was. It was an anti Semitic plot to say that Epstein was secret intelligence. And it's genuinely. Although I don't agree with them, it was one of the best put together podcasts I'd heard.

[Brian Callan]

And I look at this Suicide watch observation law 2:15am inmate states his cellmate tried to kill him.

[Joe Rogan]

Inmates sitting on bed trying to remember.

[Jamie]

It, saying he has no idea what happened. But there's pictures of him showing his wounds and stuff. I think he also said he woke up and didn't know where those wounds came from.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, so that's the guy too, by the way. You know that. That's the cellmate, the giant dude. Oh, so the cellmate beat the. Out of him. I don't see any wounds. Oh, where's the wounds? New release documentary Semi conscious with neck injuries.

[Jamie]

He had marks around his wrist.

[Brian Callan]

Let me see his neck.

[Jamie]

See, it's not a good picture.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a video.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, okay. It's a video.

[Jamie]

This picture. His hands were swollen. I think I said his ankles or feet were swollen too.

[Brian Callan]

Oh. So the guy tried to grab his neck and choke him.

[Jamie]

But they said they investigated, they didn't find anything.

[Brian Callan]

Found no evidence of foul play. I didn't do nothing. He says he didn't do nothing. I don't know what to tell you.

[Joe Rogan]

You.

[Brian Callan]

You're okay. Get back in jail, you pedophile. That's probably what they did. But the guy probably tried to kill him. I mean, it looks like a guy that would try to kill you, and he was definitely a murderer.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you're in a jail cell with a pedophile, I think that's unusual to try and kill that guy.

[Brian Callan]

Also, you're a big, giant guy who's in jail for murdering four drug dealers. And you're a cop. Like, I was. I was always saying that you get him to kill that guy for like a pack of cigarettes in jail for the rest of his life, forever, for sure. And you can give him like, awesome special treatment if you wax Jeffrey Epstein.

[Joe Rogan]

Man, I was really trying. I tried so hard. I went on podcasts trying to say he was. Yeah, I wish I hadn't. I just. I just thought it was a cool. A cool, like, bucking back against the grain thing to say. And I was saying he was charismatic.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Why wouldn't famous people want to hang out with this charismatic?

[Brian Callan]

Good point.

[Joe Rogan]

That photo where he's with Michael Jackson.

[Brian Callan]

Mm.

[Joe Rogan]

His loafers are incredible. He had a great sense of style.

[Brian Callan]

Right, Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But I do. And then there's things about him discussing with, you know, he's talking to ex prime ministers of Israel about how to move money around or something. Yeah, it's. I.

[Brian Callan]

The former prime minister of Israel used to visit him in his Manhattan place with like a mask over his face. He like pull his. Had like one of these things on. You ever seen?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. See, but it was pictures of him trying to cover his face as he goes into Epstein's house. Which is what I always do when I go to my friend's house.

[Joe Rogan]

You cover your face.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. You don't want anybody knowing. You go to the ring doorbell.

[Joe Rogan]

There's also.

[Brian Callan]

There's apparently more Nixon mask on.

[Joe Rogan]

More Prince Andrew ones now.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, of course.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's.

[Brian Callan]

Well, there's a reason why they literally kicked him out of the royal family. They banished him to a mansion somewhere in the hills.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think he'd been. Yeah, it's not good. Hurts the. It hurts my regard for the beautiful royal family. I love very much.

[Brian Callan]

I bet you do. You like a good royal family?

[Joe Rogan]

I love a royal family.

[Brian Callan]

Look at that dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Why he's dodging the paparazzi.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, for sure. Paparazzi are always in front of a financial guy's house. Bunch of chicks leaving.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of people seem to love hanging out with this guy. A charismatic guy.

[Brian Callan]

Bet he's a lot of fun. Had cool people at his parties.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, it was with Woody Allen. He was hanging out.

[Brian Callan]

Bill Clinton.

[Joe Rogan]

Bill Clinton seems to have a great time. In all the photos.

[Brian Callan]

There's a lot of people seem like having a great time. Time. Michael Jackson was hanging out there.

[Joe Rogan]

Michael Jackson didn't look like he was having a lot of fun, though.

[Brian Callan]

I don't think he had a lot of fun period. Right. Michael tortured individual.

[Joe Rogan]

He had a roller coaster. How could he be unhappy?

[Brian Callan]

I don't think that was for him. That roller coaster was like, I still know Michael. When you go turkey hunting, you put up a fake turkey. No, bring in the turkeys.

[Joe Rogan]

His father made him dance too much and that's why he wanted to spend the night with boys. I can't defend Michael Jackson.

[Brian Callan]

No, you can't. Who can you defend easier, Michael Jackson or Epstein?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, we don't have any. Yeah, I mean, probably Michael Jackson because the music was great.

[Brian Callan]

The music was great. And there's the. His doctor said he was chemically castrated. You know that.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, the doctor that went to jail for giving him propofol that wound up killing him.

[Joe Rogan]

The general anesthetic.

[Brian Callan]

Yes. Yeah, that doctor, when he got out of Jail spoke publicly about the fact that Michael, when he was young, was giving chemical castration drugs to protect his voice, to keep his voice from deepening.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm on the record saying that castrati should be brought back.

[Brian Callan]

You're on the record?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No, over and over again, I said, if we're going to have trans people, make them sing. You get it. Regarding how well you can sing, but.

[Brian Callan]

You got to do it when you're really young.

[Joe Rogan]

It's got to be before puberty.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't really believe it, but I do want to hear the castrate again. We've got one recording. It's not very good. Have you heard it?

[Brian Callan]

It's eerie. Yeah, we played this podcast a bunch of times. Yeah, it's kind of macabre, but people.

[Joe Rogan]

Loved it at the time.

[Brian Callan]

They were sick people.

[Joe Rogan]

And only the Italians, because the Italians were bold and they.

[Brian Callan]

What a crazy move.

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Brian Callan]

Castrate boy balls off when he's young so he could sing at a high pitch forever.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think that would crush them because they didn't have antiseptic. I think cut them off is what'd they do?

[Brian Callan]

They crush their balls.

[Joe Rogan]

I think they crushed them and then put them in a bath of milk. But do you know about this? Do you know about the swan thing?

[Brian Callan]

What'd they do to crush the balls? What'd they use? They just smash them.

[Joe Rogan]

It was illegal.

[Brian Callan]

Thing you did with your hands. That was terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not good. But they would deny it. The families would never cop to it because it was illegal to castrate your son. So you would. You would come up with an excuse. And there's, like, one town in Italy where, over the course of a year, like, they reported hundreds of swan attacks, is what they would say.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

They would say a swan attack flew into my son's testicles, and that's why he's now the best singer in Milan.

[Brian Callan]

And they did it so their son could make money, just like a theater mom.

[Joe Rogan]

But the people loved it. Like, when there was the last one and they were gonna retire it, people were chant like crowds screamed, long live the knife. They wanted it to keep going. Do you know about this?

[Brian Callan]

Long live the knife.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, There was, like, the nut cutting widespread popular support not to get rid of. Of the castrati.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

People wanted to keep hearing it, bro, that's terrible. But they must have sounded really good.

[Brian Callan]

Well, we heard the recording. Want to hear it?

[Joe Rogan]

Apparently he was recording. Apparently he was one of the worst ones.

[Jamie]

Many of these operations were performed by local barbers.

[Brian Callan]

The Razor.

[Joe Rogan]

Did use the razor nuts. I should have guessed you were across the castrate them out. I could have guessed that would have come up on the show. I didn't know you'd played it a bunch.

[Brian Callan]

Oh yeah, we played it before. We'll leave on this. I don't know. Can we play it?

[Jamie]

I can't. This is one of those videos.

[Brian Callan]

I could have. Yeah, somebody might have owned it.

[Joe Rogan]

Actually, I got into an argument about it because I put it on a video once and I got challenged and I challenged it back because it was recorded so long ago. Oh yeah.

[Jamie]

It should be an open.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you know what I mean?

[Brian Callan]

That's true.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a Wikipedia recording that's totally open. No, I'm across, man.

[Brian Callan]

We don't want to deal with it though.

[Joe Rogan]

How come no rappers are sampling the castrati? Danny Brown, maybe Diddy.

[Brian Callan]

When he gets me.

[Jamie]

Maybe you could.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not even gonna try and be a Diddy. Defender. I thought about it.

[Brian Callan]

You're such a contrarian. You do think about it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it would be nice. I just don't have enough time to research it properly. But if I had all the time and if I didn't have kids, I would be spending all my time becoming the best Epstein defender. Because it would be a cool thing to say at parties very stridently, wouldn't it?

[Brian Callan]

That's such an Australian thing to think we got here.

[Jamie]

It's just a quick explanation. I mean, they really sound same. The US up fast.

[Brian Callan]

Time. Roughly beginning the 17th century, the mid 19th century. An era where the science of anesthesia. Anesthesia still had some way to go. And here we go. Before making the first cut, a surgeon would send a patient into a semi comatose state by plying him with an opium based drink and compressing his carotid arteries.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's the milk.

[Brian Callan]

Then the boy would be plunged into a bath of milk or hot water to soften the necessary parts. At which point speed was of the essence. Cut the spermatic cords, remove the testicles, tie the ducks. And then fingers crossed. Oh God.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh God. But what is it about the Italians that were the only people to do it? Why?

[Brian Callan]

Why are you with my people?

[Joe Rogan]

I know, I'm saying it's kind of a greatness of spirit. No, because that's how much you loved music.

[Brian Callan]

It's disgusting.

[Joe Rogan]

Other people were trying to take over the world and build empires. Not in Italy. That's what you were doing.

[Brian Callan]

They just didn't know that AI could just fake it. We could make an AI castra. Maybe we should close on that. Let's have AI do a castrata.

[Joe Rogan]

I reject it. I reject AI Castrata album.

[Brian Callan]

Papa Was a Rolling Stone.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you do that?

[Brian Callan]

Yeah, let's do have AI make a cover of Papa Was a Rolling Stone as an opera. Castrata or castrato? Is it castrato or castrata?

[Joe Rogan]

I think it's castrata.

[Brian Callan]

Is the plural castrata. Right. But is it a straight.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I think it's.

[Brian Callan]

Is it still a boy if you cut his nuts off?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you're getting a lot of trouble in Britain for saying the opposite, but.

[Brian Callan]

Mm.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, ladies loved them. God, and they were big and tall.

[Brian Callan]

Can never get hard.

[Joe Rogan]

No, they could.

[Brian Callan]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Brian Callan]

How do you know?

[Joe Rogan]

I read a lot about it.

[Brian Callan]

Like, maybe they lied.

[Joe Rogan]

They would have sex across. No, women would, like, go and try and have sex with them, but they. Because they couldn't get pregnant off the back of it.

[Brian Callan]

But how'd they get a boner if they didn't?

[Joe Rogan]

I think it, like, testicles they still got. There was still testosterone in the body.

[Brian Callan]

Like a tiny amount produced by the.

[Joe Rogan]

They got real tall, though. They got huge. They would be like seven foot tall.

[Jamie]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

And they're. They're. This is why they could sing so well. Is their. Their bones in their rib cage wouldn't fuse. Like, there's something in puberty that's meant to come in and, like, stop your bones growing. That happens when you're a child. So they'd have, like. Like this huge rib cage with huge lungs and a tiny little boy voice. Yeah, but like huge amounts of air flowing out.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm just saying, why can't we. If we're gonna have all the trans kids, doesn't one of them go identify as a kistrati? Couldn't one do it?

[Brian Callan]

Maybe you're planting the seed in someone's head right now.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't want to do their calling. I don't want to do that.

[Brian Callan]

Well, maybe they already went through with the other thing and they're like, well, let's make the most of this. You know, make some lemonade.

[Joe Rogan]

Have you got. Can you really just type it in and make it.

[Jamie]

Yeah, but.

[Brian Callan]

Yeah. How long does it take to render.

[Jamie]

The problem is the lyrics.

[Brian Callan]

The lyrics.

[Jamie]

Those lyrics are copyrighted.

[Joe Rogan]

You could have a song.

[Brian Callan]

Oh, we can't play it.

[Jamie]

I won't make this. That's a whole. How you make these songs. I don't want to get into.

[Brian Callan]

How are they doing that? You don't want to say it. Okay. Okay. All right. We're.

[Joe Rogan]

Is it a secret?

[Brian Callan]

McCan, we're going to miss you. You'll be back.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you.

[Brian Callan]

Got one?

[Jamie]

Hold on a second.

[Brian Callan]

You got one.

[Joe Rogan]

All right, here we go. All right.

[Brian Callan]

Here we go. It seems quite eerie enough. That sounds like a regular guy.

[Joe Rogan]

When you hear that. When you hear that one guy, it is otherworldly.

[Brian Callan]

It's creepy.

[Jamie]

All right.

[Brian Callan]

It's creepy.

[Jamie]

Make good songs, McCann.

[Brian Callan]

I love you.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

[Brian Callan]

It's always fun hanging out with you, and I'm excited about tonight. We're gonna have some fun, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

Think so.

[Brian Callan]

Yes, sir. Okay. See you in a bit.

[Joe Rogan]

All right.

[Brian Callan]

Bye. Everybody.

[Joe Rogan]

Understand where women's sports leagues are headed with She's Not Next She's now from the Gist of It, She's Not Next she's now is a podcast series on the Gist of It feed exploring new.

[Brian Callan]

And emerging women's sports. Sports.

[Joe Rogan]

Hear how these leagues started, where they stand today, and what comes next. Each episode features real conversations with players, executives, and fans shaping sports like pro soccer, volleyball, and softball. It's clear context without jargon, built to help fans actually follow the story. Listen to She's Not Next, She's Now. Wherever you get your podcasts on the Gist of It, feedback.