#2449 - Raul Bilecky

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience #2449 – Raul Bilecky

Date: February 5, 2026
Host: Joe Rogan
Guest: Raul Bilecky (Archaeology Explorer, Pillars of the Past)

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Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging episode, Joe Rogan sits down with Raul Bilecky, an independent archaeologist and the creator of the “Pillars of the Past” YouTube channel. Their conversation centers on Raul’s groundbreaking expeditions into the mysteries of ancient Peru, the rampant looting and destruction of archaeological sites, debates over odd relics such as elongated skulls and enigmatic mummies, the skepticism facing independent researchers, and the broader implications of lost civilizations and potential cataclysmic resets in human history. The discussion delves into the failures and limitations of mainstream academia, details Raul’s incredible fieldwork fueled almost entirely by his own passion, and explores mind-bending implications for humanity’s past.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovery and Looting of Undocumented Sites in Peru

Rampant Looting

• Joe kicks off praising Raul’s online investigations, especially his documentation of newly discovered megalithic sites in Peru ([00:15]–[04:34]).
• Raul describes witnessing vast swathes of ruins turned into “landfills of human remains” by looters.

  “It’s eight full kilometers of just... it looks like the moon. Every single location has been looted.” — Raul ([02:01])

Government Inaction & Private Black Market

• Systematic looting is enabled by government apathy and corruption; most recovered artifacts end up in private collections, not museums.

  “Nobody from the government’s going out there. These things end up in private collections.” — Raul ([04:46])

• Grave robbers (“guaqueros”) operate openly, sometimes selling directly to wealthy foreigners ([42:00]).

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2. Peru’s Archaeological Richness & Mystery

Unstudied Civilizations

• Peru is so dense with ruins that construction projects often accidentally reveal archaeological sites ([05:54]–[07:19]).
• Limited research funding means only a handful of sites, like Machu Picchu, are thoroughly studied.

“You throw a stone and you’re finding an ancient archaeological site... there is no lack.” — Raul ([05:54])

Personal Origin Story

• Raul traces his own fascination back to finding sea shells as a child at Machu Picchu, sparking questions about ancient cataclysms ([07:24]).

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3. Mainstream vs. Alternative Archaeological Narratives

Debates over Ancient Builders

• The standard Peruvian timeline credits the Inca and Wari. Raul, however, highlights evidence of extremely old, precise megalithic construction, possibly made by lost or unknown peoples ([09:33]–[12:08]).
• Joe draws a global parallel with the Aztec and Roman practices of building atop mysterious older structures ([12:15]).

Academic Resistance & Gatekeeping

• Both criticize mainstream academia for intellectual arrogance and resistance to paradigm-shifting evidence ([15:35], [17:08]).

  “If you’re a 41-year-old person, you’re not the gatekeeper of ancient history... It doesn’t make sense. None of it makes sense.” — Joe ([16:08])

Paradigm-Breaking Discoveries

• The discovery of sites like Göbekli Tepe forced reevaluations of early civilization. Joe and Raul urge more humility and open-mindedness in light of new technology like ground-penetrating radar ([14:54], [21:44]).
• The academic cycle of dismissing and then eventually accepting inconvenient evidence is a recurring theme.

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4. The Nazca Mummies, Elongated Skulls & Archaeological Hoaxes

Tridactyl Mummies Controversy

• A candid discussion of so-called “alien” mummies and elongated skulls, with Raul expressing healthy skepticism and explaining how some are manufactured from ancient human or animal bones ([28:20]–[40:43]).
• Financial motives are at play—money is often made not from the artifacts themselves, but “in the shows that come from it... subscriptions for the next season” ([39:40]).

Elongated Skulls

• Raul personally found several elongated skulls, many likely the result of ancient cranial deformation practices, but raises the possibility that some could represent unknown hominids.

  “Either you had whole cultures just doing this, or there’s too many of them for it to have just been some elitist practice.” — Raul ([44:22])

• Genetic studies have provided conflicting hints, with some skulls showing traces from the Black Sea/Caspian regions ([63:33]).

Preservation & Loss

• Raul describes the tragic loss of sites—looting destroys invaluable context, and many discoveries have simply disappeared ([48:01]).

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5. Unsolved Mysteries: Pyramids, Sunken Plazas, Cataclysms, and Ancient Seafaring

Ancient Pyramids Pre-dating Giza

• Raul documents Peru’s monumental “pre-ceramic” pyramids, possibly older than Egypt’s ([66:04]–[67:18]). He speculates about their function (pilgrimage sites?) and the absence of weapons or evidence of warfare ([68:32]–[69:54]).
• The “Norte Chico” culture and sites like Caral demonstrate a complex, peaceful society vastly understudied ([70:28]).

Unwritten Record — The Khipus

• The destruction of Peru’s only known writing system by the Spanish is lamented. Few khipus (knotted cords) survive today, though they may encode rich histories ([71:54]–[72:48]).

Climate, Cataclysm, and Erasure

• Frequent El Niño, mega-floods, and possible tsunamis periodically obliterate costal settlements, erasing untold cultural layers ([88:07]–[90:35]).
• Raul speculates some monumental constructions could be over 12,000 years old and ties in broader discussion of cyclical, civilization-resetting events (e.g., Younger Dryas Impact) ([90:02]–[92:13]).

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6. Raul’s Methods & The Power of Technology

Exploration Techniques

• Raul leverages Google Earth, drones, and local knowledge to track down and document sites—often venturing where no academic surveyors have gone ([75:24], [100:17]).
• Many newly “discovered” sites are literally hiding in plain sight, visible only from the air ([101:03], [117:40]).
• People on the ground may know of “ruins” but have no sense of their significance ([122:21]).

Agriculture, Urbanization, and Cultural Destruction

• Agro-industry is now a bigger threat than looters—entire sites are being plowed under for crops as farmers (often out of necessity) get no guidance or support from authorities ([79:04]–[81:04]).

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7. Tunnels, Rituals, and Hallucinogenic Traditions

Ritual Spaces and Psychedelics

• Chavín de Huantar features vast underground chambers linked to ancient psychoactive rituals using San Pedro cactus ([130:05]–[133:26]).

  “As soon as I walked in underground, something hits you... Lighter and a little messed up in the head, man.” — Raul ([132:25])

Tunnels & Subterranean Sites

• The Andes are honeycombed with manmade tunnels; many are unexplored, dangerous, or steeped in local myth ([139:31]–[140:50]).

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8. Debunking Stone Softening Legends & Megalithic Technology

Sacsayhuaman & Stone Construction Mysteries

• The titanic, marshmallow-like, interlocking stones of Sacsayhuaman defy current understanding; legends speak of plant-derived acids softening stone, possibly mixed with pyrite ([137:31]–[138:41]).

  “They talked about a bird that would take a red leaf and peck it into the rock, and it would help melt the stone.” — Raul ([137:02])

• Raul and Joe debate the plausibility of legends vs. scientific studies on "stone softening" ([138:41]–[139:01]).

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9. Independent Research, Internet-Driven Discovery, and the Future

The Role of YouTube & Community

• Raul’s project is crowdfunded and fueled by an engaged online community ([99:12]).
• Social media and YouTube are transforming who controls and disseminates archaeological knowledge ([98:51], [116:38]), bypassing slow and often hostile academic gatekeepers.

Mental Toll and Motivation

• Raul gets visibly emotional about the weight of being, in some cases, the sole documentarian of a vanishing civilization ([87:09]).
• Joe underscores the importance and impact of Raul’s work; without him, these mysteries would remain invisible ([106:16]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Looting:
  “It’s eight full kilometers... looks like the moon. Every single location has been looted.” — Raul ([02:01])

• On Official Apathy:
  “Nobody from the government’s going out there. These things end up in private collections.” — Raul ([04:46])

• On Academic Gatekeeping:
  “If you’re a 41-year-old person, you’re not the gatekeeper of ancient history... It doesn’t make sense.” — Joe ([16:08])

• On Paradigm-Busting Evidence:
  “If he’s right... you guys are fucked. You’re gonna eventually have to say, ‘We’re wrong.’” — Joe ([16:25]) re: sub-pyramid scans

• On the Power of Mystery:
  “You’re never going to get the full answer. It’s just— the mystery will never be satisfied... always hungry, you know?” — Joe ([74:20])

• On Being a Lone Explorer:
  “It’s a lot of work, you know, and... something in me that I—” visibly chokes up — Raul ([87:11])

• On the Duty to Document:
  “My goal is to document as much as possible before it’s not there to document.” — Raul ([98:31])

• On the Potential for Lost Civilizations:
  “There’s evidence on Huaca Prieta... that dates back to 12,500 BCE.” — Raul ([90:02])

• On Social Media Toxicity:
  “Social media is this weird loop of confirmation bias, bitchiness, and anger... It’s altering the collective psychological foundation of our society.” — Joe ([114:05])

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Important Segments (Sample Timestamps)

• Peruvian Archaeological Looting Exposed: [00:15]–[04:34]
• Personal Origin Story at Machu Picchu: [07:24]
• Alternative Timeline and Vinyake Megaliths: [09:33]–[12:08]
• Elongated Skulls and Black Sea DNA Connection: [63:33]
• Sunken Plazas, Pyramids, & Norte Chico: [66:04]–[71:54]
• Founding of Pillars of the Past: [105:22]–[106:09]
• Stone Softening, Sacsayhuaman/Myth: [137:31]–[139:01]
• Chavín Ritual Chambers and Hallucinogens: [130:05]–[133:30]
• Agriculture Threatens Ancient Sites: [79:04]–[81:04]
• Raul’s Discovery Process via Google Earth: [75:35], [122:04]
• Emotional Weight of the Work: [87:06], [99:12]

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Episode Flow & Tone

The conversation is raw, digressive, and passionate—equal parts wonder, outrage, and dark humor. Joe and Raul’s skepticism is matched by genuine awe about the ancient world and frustration with dismissive academic bureaucracy. Listeners will feel both the thrill of discovery and the melancholy of irreplaceable loss. Raul’s understated humility and palpable emotion convey the gravity of solo exploration; he’s neither showman nor conspiracy theorist, but a determined truth-seeker on the front lines of knowledge.

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For Further Exploration

• Raul Bilecky’s Channel: Pillars of the Past—YouTube
• Follow on X/Twitter: @PillarsofthePast
• Upcoming Conferences: Quest for Ancient Civilizations (Sedona/Austin)
• Relevant Books/Authors: Graham Hancock (“Fingerprints of the Gods”), Ben van Kerkwyk (UnchartedX), Dr. Ed Barnhart

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Summary

If you’re fascinated by the mysteries of deep antiquity, the frontiers of independent archaeology, and the struggle to rescue humanity’s forgotten story, this episode is essential listening. It’s both a call to action and a testament to how much remains undiscovered—and how little time is left to save it.

Transcript

[A]

Joe Rogan Podcast.

[B]

Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.

[A]

Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

[B]

Raul. Joe, very nice to meet you, brother.

[A]

It's so good to be here.

[B]

I have enjoyed your content tremendously online. And I really got into a video this morning that I was watching where you found this megalithic site that was undocumented in Peru. It's incredible that they still have these ancient sites that for whatever reason, it seems like the. The money that they get gets stolen. Like the money that is supposed to be allocated towards documenting these things and registering these things. People just say, fuck it, I'm going to pocket it.

[A]

And it happens a lot more than you. You think?

[B]

I just. Hard to believe, man. Some of the stuff that you document is very heartbreaking. Like one of them was when you flew a drone over these ancient ruins and you showed the amount of places that have been looted.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And it's just. All of it, it's just pop. You see these holes. And when I first saw that, I'm like, what is, what is he showing me? And then you're like, these are all spots where someone has dug in and looted. And. And most of it has been done in this area of Peru over the last 20 years.

[A]

Over the last 20 years.

[B]

So from 2006-20, 26 more, I would have.

[A]

The biggest amount of looting happened. It's actually died down some, but the end of the 20th, so 1980s to 2010s, I would say that's what it's really like when it really took off. And you can tell from the trash that's left, left there. Like cigarettes that were only produced in the 80s, soda bottles that were only produced in the 90s.

[B]

How nice of them to steal the artifacts and leave trash.

[A]

They've become landfills of human remains. This place you're talking about is. I mean, it's eight full kilometers of just. It looks like the moon. Every single, single location has been looted. And I was like, I gotta go up, up there and see what this looks like. And.

[B]

And so pull up to the microphone a little bit more there. So looting, what are they at at that point in time? I mean, these are hundreds, thousands of years old, these sites. So what are they finding?

[A]

Well, a lot of the mummies that I've. Because I found mummies that have been torn torn apart, literally. Like they're the cotton that they're wrapped in, the textiles that they're wrapped in. I mean, it's just they've been scavenged.

[B]

Are they looking for Jewels or for.

[A]

Some sort of metallurgy on the person themselves. The unfortunate thing is, I mean, all you'll see is you'll just see these bones littered across the landscape with broken pieces of pottery.

[B]

And that was also disturbing, how much bones you see everywhere. So this is a bone right there. These are all human bones that you just find scattered.

[A]

That's all cotton. And what we're about to see here is an actual mummy that's been torn apart.

[B]

This is. It's so sad that there's no protection.

[A]

Nobody's going out there, man. Nobody except for the looters.

[B]

But I know very little about Peru other than, you know, obviously, the nascalines, the mummies, all these different things. The. The mystery of the place. Showing that, please, oh, it's over.

[A]

But there's a. There's a couple burial. Burial drone shots, but it's just. You go to the top.

[B]

How big is Peru? I don't even know geographically how large it is.

[A]

I mean, Peru is huge. I mean, it takes up. This is another. This is a different looted site. So this is all this. All of this is in the Paracas Nazca ecoregion.

[B]

These skulls are just sitting there.

[A]

So the looters will often, oftentimes leave, I don't know, set them up in this fashion. There isn't a site I've gone to where I haven't seen something like set up like this in. In the end. But so I pull out to show the scale of it. I mean, every little piece of white you see is. Is some part of a human. Wow. It's tragic, man.

[B]

Just so much history lost. And so does this stuff wind up in private collections? Do museums ever get it? Like, what happens to that stuff?

[A]

I don't think museums get it at all. It's private. Private buyers. I actually met a. The term is a grave robber. I actually met one in Miraflores in Lima proper, at one of the Artesinales, where they're selling, you know, ancient goods. Well, some of them have real things that they. They go out and they loot. And I mean that. This is one of the things I've been thinking about, like, for. For the future. Like what. What can be done about this? Because the government. Nobody from the government's going out there. And so these things end up in private collections. Textiles, humans, pottery, things that you would see in museums. It's just nobody from that official administration is taking the trip to go out there and preserve these things.

[B]

It seems like just the ancient civilization of Peru is a massive mystery. It seems like there are a lot of uncovered stories in that area.

[A]

Peru is a hot spot, and it.

[B]

Doesn'T seem like there's an incredible amount of research being done other than by independent people.

[A]

They. I mean, so, Joe, there's just so much in Peru. I mean, you throw a stone and you're finding an ancient archaeological site. I mean, they're doing. Whenever they do construction, they end up coming across structures or bones. I mean, this last expedition, I went all over the country, and there is no lack of archaeological sites. So the money. And I just. The money it would take to fund research on all these places is just extreme.

[C]

It.

[A]

It's extreme. I think there's a lot of history that. That goes. Missed because. Because of what's currently happening. But a lot of times, a lot of the research is focused on what's going to bring tourism.

[B]

Right. Like Machu Picchu and things along those lines, which is also insane.

[A]

Phenomenal.

[B]

It's incredible. Like, that place is like, what, why?

[A]

How.

[B]

Why'd you build it up here? Nuts. A good friend of mine just actually went, just recently took his family up to Machu Picchu, and he's like, it doesn't even make any sense, man.

[A]

Machu Picchu is what started. My family's from Peru, and so I would grow up going there, and I have this old. Back when you were filming with cameras, with, like a videotape, there's footage of me finding seashells at Machu Picchu when I was like, 10 years old. Back then, you could go wherever you wanted. You didn't have to stay on a path. And so I don't know.

[B]

And for people that don't know, Machu Picchu is like, what, 12,000ft above sea level?

[A]

Yeah. And so. And so I'm a kid, and I mean, I still have the footage, the grainy footage. And I'm showing my dad on the cam, like, dad, dad, look, I found seashells. You know, I saw them in. Inside of. They were like, glinting in the mud in the wall. And so I took them out, and that's what started this whole process for me. I was just like that. It blew my mind that there were seashells way up there. And so I studied about Earth cataclysms and ancient history and when sea levels were different. And that just. That's. That is a moment that started kind of this whole path for me.

[B]

How old were you at the time?

[A]

10 or 12. Wow. Wow.

[B]

So how many times you've been there since.

[A]

Well, growing up, we used to go every year and a half or so. And that's continued into my adulthood. It's only been recently, the past two years that I've been doing what I've, what I've been doing, which is like hardcore solo expeditions.

[B]

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by NBC and Peacock. America is sending one of their strongest Winter Olympic teams ever to Milan. Don't miss Team USA in action at the Winter Olympics, starting with an incredible opening ceremony, Friday, February 6, on NBC and Peacock. And so when you look at a site like Machu Picchu or, you know, any of these ancient sites, what, what is the timeline that conventional archaeologists attribute?

[A]

I mean, they attribute it to the Inca, which, you know, 14, late 1400s, early 1500s, I think the Inca were conquered in by The Spanish in 15, 15, 30, I think. And so most of that megalithic architecture they attribute to the Inca. However, there's evidence that there's a site, Jamie, if you could pull up. It's called Vinyake. This place is. There's megalithic architecture with precision that goes down 50ft under this mountain. Check this out.

[B]

Whoa. This is crazy.

[A]

So I believe they filled in the top to, in modern times, but at the top. And very soon there's going to be a guy who shows us a map. That's incredible.

[B]

Wow. And so you see very different construction, very different construction from the bottom to the top. But that's how it always is. Right? The most complex stuff.

[A]

So that's, that's showing that this architecture here, it goes down 50ft into this mountain.

[B]

And what do they think this was?

[A]

So this complex is all attributed to the Wari. It's attributed to the culture that came right before the Inca, which, which doesn't make much sense to me because what you see on the surface, that's worry.

[B]

Construction, which is small stones.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And what are they held together with?

[A]

Mud. Mortar. Mud as mortar. But then. So this site has only been 4% excavated. 4%. It's underneath all of it is that type of architecture, which is crazy.

[B]

So you have mud and mortar with very small stones. Then underneath it you have precision cut megalithic stones.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And how big are these stones and where are they supposedly coming from?

[A]

That. So here's a funny story. So this place, if you look, you can, you can find it on, on Google Maps. It's, you know, they call it the El Complejo de Worry. So the Wari complex. But if you go back to the Spanish chronicles, Pedro Sieza de Leon, when he was in Tiwanaco So Tiwanaco, where Puma Punku is in Bolivia. When they ask the natives, you know, who built this, they say we don't know. It was built before us from the people from the lake. The same people who built Vinyake. That's what the natives said. That place Vinyake is 800 1,000 kilometers from Tiwanaco. And it's the same construction. So it makes sense kind of what they're saying. The people who built Tiwanaco also built this place. But before they know, before they knew that they didn't witness it. It was just there when they got there, is what the locals said.

[B]

Well, that's a lot of stuff, Right. That's part of the weirdness of South America.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, even Mexico. Right. Yeah, it's, that's the, the weirdness of the Aztec structures. I didn't know that until pretty recently that the Aztecs labeled like Tenochtitlan, the place where the gods were born.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

Yeah, like they, they don't attribute that to themselves. They, they found it when they cleared the area.

[A]

I mean, you think about it, I, I've still to this day, you know, I, I was up in Lake Titicaca and I mean there's structures all over the place, but you're like, where were these people living? And because there's no remnants of cities or towns and the reason is, is because in modern times people have recommissioned the blocks and started and use them for their farms and their homes and things like that. You have a good location, a place of reverence, a place you're gonna build the next, the next culture is going to build on it, you know, and I think that's happened a lot in a lot of places.

[B]

Yeah, well, everywhere. Right. I mean that's Lebanon too. That's Baalbek. It seems to be the case that those, those immense stones where the Romans built on top of them, but there's Roman documentation is pretty precise. They documented everything. They never talked about these enormous thousand ton stones that are 7 meters up in the air.

[A]

Now we're just going to put them in the base of our structure. Yeah.

[B]

What? They didn't even talk about them. They talked about the, these beautiful structures that are on top of that are clearly Roman, but the stuff underneath it just defies logic. And some of the stones that were never moved and put into place, that were cut and quarried, but just never moved. 1600 tons.

[A]

How and things you can't replicate, you know, nowadays it's that's what's crazy.

[B]

Like with modern machinery we can't do it.

[A]

I mean it's, I've always, when I started this path, you know, I was, you know, Fingerprints of the Gods was one of the first books I picked up. Educated. My dad had it in his library and, and, and, and that just, that set me off on a course and. The inability to be able to. I don't know, I don't buy the mainstream. It feels a little bit lazy. The responses that the mainstream kind of gives to some of this stuff as opposed to just saying, I don't know, it's purposely ignorant.

[B]

It's more than lazy. Because if it was just lazy, I mean they've been confronted by all this other alternative archaeology evidence and all these other people that have like explored these things and shown and there was always the conventional wisdom that there was no society back then that was capable of doing this. So they had to attribute it to more recent societies until go back Lee Tepe. Then you're like, okay, you guys need to shut the fuck up.

[A]

I mean there's a power in admitting like if we're looking for the truth here, then it's like, okay, we got this evidence that disrupts this that we thought before. All right, just say that, you know what I mean? They say it.

[B]

It's fascinating that they can't, you know, because they are like every other form of academia, they are just like, I mean you might as well be talking to a gender studies teacher. Just like they don't want to look at reality. They just did just want their narrative and they want to be the gatekeepers of information and then they just want to push that narrative forward and they're so mean.

[A]

Dude, it. I only started recently being on X within the past year and I'm just like, the cattiness of it all, man is.

[B]

Well, it just exposes them, it exposes their personality and they're just not the type of people that I want to talk to about anything, especially not. You're not the gatekeeper. If you're a 41 year old person. You're not the gatekeeper of ancient history. You can't be. There's too much. There's too much all over the world. It doesn't make sense. None of it makes sense. And that's I think why they're so terr of people like Filippo Biondi and the scans underneath the pyramids. Because if he's right and it appears he is, over 200 different independent scans and they all say the exact Same thing. If he's right, you guys are fucked. Because you have to. You're gonna eventually have to say we're wrong.

[A]

You have a moment here where you can choose which direction to go. Pretty soon that moment's gonna be lost. But it's like, this is what the evidence is presented and like you said, verified over 200 different studies. It's like, all right, we might be wrong.

[B]

Let's right. They're still digging their heels in and they're just discrediting themselves, which is fascinating. It's really interesting. It's really interesting to watch these assholes.

[A]

Just like, flounder well, and it makes me think, you know, what's the reason behind it? Is it pride? Is it ego? It's. Is it because you wrote some books on it that you need to keep selling? Is it because it's in textbooks that universities use? I mean, it's all. There's a lot of layers to it.

[B]

It's all the above, but you can tell just by the way they communicate online. A lot of it is ego. Yeah, yeah, a lot of it is ego. And just really bad personalities. You know, these people that are accustomed to never being questioned, accustomed to being in the hierarchy of academia where you have these tenured professors and then they have the people that are coming up under them and they all follow the same sort of rigid structure. And so any heterodox thinkers, anybody who comes in from outside the box just gets shit all over.

[A]

Yeah, there's no open mindedness. I don't know if this is like a parable or something, but I don't know, some story where there's a truck going into a tunnel and it gets stuck and it's backing up traffic and nobody can get through. Everybody's trying to figure out what the hell, how to get this truck through. And just, you know, some, some farmer walks up and he's just like, take the air out the tires and problem solved. And so the inability to let other people come in with thoughts and opinions, it just, it really. I think it's a real detriment to the study of these things because in my approach to some of the places I've gone, I think it is that, yes, we have research, yes, there is a level of understanding at a lot of these places what happened. But it's also that going into with a fresh set of eyes, you know, sometimes, I mean, I get so locked in my work, sometimes I can't see outside of it. You know, sometimes it takes another party to come in and all of A sudden, your mind is blown in a completely different direction. I don't see that level of openness to things on the side of a lot of a lot of the mainstream academia when it comes to this stuff.

[B]

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[A]

It's. It's not. I was thinking about that.

[B]

You know a lot. They know a lot about things they have discovered. They do. They know a lot about Mesopotamia, they know a lot about Iraq. All the, the amazing stuff that they find. There's some stuff they, they very accurately dated, but it doesn't, it doesn't explain things that you can't explain. And they want to try to just fit it. Yeah, that's what's goofy.

[A]

Yeah, That's, I mean, look, if the puzzle beast doesn't fit, stop trying to force it.

[B]

Well, it's also, it's like more gigantic spectacular pieces. And you're like, those aren't important. I mean, Ben Van Kirkwick with this most recent discoveries where they're using the ground penetrating radar to find the labyrinths and this 40 meter long metallic object that's inside of an atrium down there. Like, what is that thing?

[A]

Yeah. I have. I hope it's something my. If, if whatever, if they go looking and I hope they do. And this is the other thing. It's like, let's start putting money towards this like now, you know, like, figure this out. I don't know why I thought this. I think it might be a meteorite. If it's some sort of like metallic thing, 40 meter long.

[B]

I know, I know that's a fucking civilization, Ender.

[A]

But. And imagine the next civilization coming across that thing and hearing the stories. It's like, shit, let's worship this. Or like let's rever it somehow and put it in an atrium. Well, like my thought. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

Like there's this one 40 meters. Yeah.

[B]

There's a meteorite at Mecca that they all go to touch. Yeah. Which is kind of crazy. Right. But completely makes sense. Right. Something comes from the sky, it lands, causes chaos, and then you worship it.

[A]

I mean, that also wasn't one of like King Tut's knives was made instead of a meteorite or something. So they were finding these things. 40 meter 1 is pretty big though.

[B]

I know, but tic tac shaped.

[A]

That's the, that's the other thing. I'm like. So when it comes, I'm just like, let's go, let's go.

[B]

Well, you know, that's part of the Bob Lazar lore. I, I remember Bob Lazar said that when he was told that at least one of these things came from an archaeological dig. Like, what, what, what, what do you mean? He's like, that's what they were telling me. I don't know, but they told me that one of them was from an archaeological dig. So these things are really old, dude.

[A]

And his accuracy was something with the element 1 8, 1 5, 1 15.

[B]

Something like that from 1989, when element 115 wasn't even discovered until the 2000s.

[A]

I mean, that's why, when he. Forget who I was talking to outside, but we were talking about. I think it's talking to Jamie about that, about Bob's, Bob Lazar, talking about some of these Things coming from an archeological site.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Go find it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, that's where it gets really weird. Where it gets really weird is these mummies.

[A]

Oh, we're gonna go into the mummies.

[B]

Jamie.

[C]

Eric Burleson representative, talking about how he's asked the White house to give DoD the power to let them go see this stuff, including that buried ufo.

[B]

Reportedly an object that is not in this country, that is so large it cannot be moved, that they've built an entire building around it. And I think that. I think either Greer or another individual has actually mentioned this site, but I'm not going to mention it because it is a classified location. But there is a really apparent. There's reported a really large object, and that's one of the locations that I'm requesting to get to. It's going to involve a lot to get to make that happen. But that may be the final destination. Like, that makes me want to run for president because that's all I would care about. The economy would be in shambles. I'd be like, show me the UFOs.

[A]

Do you think. Do you think they do it because. Because I've heard that, like, they kill me. I mean, it's on that need to know basis where they're keeping stuff from presidents. You know, he got too close.

[B]

I don't think that's what they killed Kennedy for, but I think there's a bunch of things.

[A]

But I know there's. There's a whole lot of layers.

[B]

Yeah, but the UFO people love to think that it's UFOs, is why they killed Kennedy. But they think everything's UFOs. But it's.

[A]

It.

[B]

It definitely seems like I don't know about the evidence, you know, because it's just stories. And that's the problem, is that a lot of this stuff, and this is how I feel when a lot of people come on the podcast and talk to me, you know, supposed whistleblowers. Some of them, I think, are legitimate, and some of them, I think, are disinformation specialists. I think they're designed to muddy up the water. And this is what, you know, what they're saying is designed to muddy up the water. And that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make a lot of this stuff look silly and push certain narratives and just create confusion. And I think a lot of it is probably some black budget, weird science stuff that we have. But then it begs the question, where'd you get that? Is that really, like The Diana Pasulka work where she's talking about essentially these things are donations and that we're supposed to like, take these things and try to figure it out. And then you look at some of the creation of some different inventions that happened very quickly after Roswell.

[A]

Our civilization just. I mean, just been on a boom ever since.

[B]

Weird stuff like the fiber optic stuff and transistors. Just the history of the creation of the transistor and the people that were involved in it seems awful fishy.

[A]

I mean, I try to stick with what I evidence that I can make out tangibly. And it just gets so murky. Like you said, all of this gets so murky that I don't know how the truth would even land, you know?

[B]

Well, the truth would have to land if there was an overall comprehensive effort by all of the world governments. And there would have to be some sort of unity in this and some. Some sort of like a recognition that this is really important for the entire human population to understand our past. And if this is nonsense, let's find out that it's nonsense. And if this is real, this changes everything. And when you look at just. Just look at the vastness of the cosmos, it's not outside of the realm of possibility. This stuff either came from somewhere else or was here because they were here. That there was an advanced civilization here. Whether it's our civilization or whatever the hell those mummies are. The tridactyl mummies, are we. That stuff's pretty good.

[A]

We can talk about that. Because I went. I did a deep dive with my friend Will, and there is too much amok going on with these things for me to. For me to objectively say that they are what people are claiming them to be. There's just. There's too much wrong with this, with the picture.

[B]

Right? Well, first of all, a lot of them are fake.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Oh, yeah, A lot of them. People have seemingly created with a bunch of different animal bones and human bones and human bones and pieced them together. But then there's the weird ones, you know, there's the weird ones that are mummified and they're in the fetal position. And you see a structure that doesn't exist in the human body, but it's complete with tendons and ligaments, and some of them have eggs inside of them that.

[A]

Joe, I'm telling you, man, I. Look, I want to believe. I think it is much closer to than it is all of them. I think what we're dealing with here are real human beings from the Past, they are ancient that have been put together. Will, from incredible history, has done some amazing work with some amazing specialists. I mean, people at the top of their field on this stuff, looking at the X rays and the DICOM files and calling out, calling out cuts, calling out incisions that were made, calling out why things don't make sense.

[B]

And.

[A]

For me, the reason I put out my last video on the NAZCA mummies is because there's this whole other narrative too of where the money is, who's making money off of these things. And I think that is there money.

[B]

Being made off those little mummies?

[A]

Oh, please.

[B]

You got something?

[A]

Yeah. So I remember. I forget who you're talking to. It might have been Jesse Michaels. But I remember you saying, you know, if these are one of the greatest art projects, if they were fake.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, if you just scroll to the right here, this is what the.

[B]

That's a goofy one.

[A]

Yeah, but that's what the Walketto is selling. He sent that to me personally. The guy selling these things, these goofy.

[B]

Ass for people, you can't see it.

[A]

There's a folder on there that has the pictures in the. These are the photos.

[B]

But what is the one that is the female that's in the.

[A]

Maria?

[B]

Is that what they're called?

[A]

Maria is one of them. I mean, so will had on Dr. William Morrison and Dr. Proctor, Dr. Wilson. I mean like people in the, in the, in the top of their.

[B]

In.

[A]

The top of their field analyzing these things. And this is this.

[B]

Fuck, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, everybody, you can get this for $15,000. This is come. This comes directly from the Walketto finding these things, by the way. Yeah, I did it like a little undercover thing, trying to see what I could lure out of him.

[B]

This is not particularly compelling to me, but.

[A]

But it's in the same. It's in the same class, coming from the same place. Supposedly the same group of people are providing these things. Yeah, this is in. This is in the ICA Museum. This is where they're housed.

[B]

Montserrat. Is that what the.

[A]

Montserrat?

[B]

Yeah, Montserrat. So these are like. Again, these are not that compelling to me.

[A]

The small ones? No, the big one. So the big ones, though are. Gosh, they, they keep coming out with new specimen. There's a new one, Antonio, who's a teenage boy, except for his feet. His feet are. Have arthritis in them and. Which indicates that they put the foot bones of another specimen on this thing. Now what these doctors have done. Look, and here's the thing. I mean, I wanted to be clear, I would love nothing more than, of course, Peru to be the hotspot of some new species. I don't think we're alone. I don't think we've identified every species. But also, I'm not, I'm not putting my money on these things coming out as authentic. I think they have been used with authentic bones, which is why they're getting the dates. I think that. Dude, I did a deep dive on this.

[B]

Please go. No, feel free. Tell me what you found out.

[A]

I initially wasn't gonna make the video. I did, but after spending days staying up doing this research, I just, I, I couldn't not do it. And I found like, I even watched the whole Gaia series on this stuff and I found myself like getting entranced by the, like, maybe, maybe. And then.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then also watching. The whole reason of putting this stuff out there is like, look, make your own decision, but don't just take in the fantasy, take in the other possibilities too, and just have all the information before you make your decision.

[B]

Well, clearly we know some of them are fake. Clearly, clearly. You know, even people like me who want so desperately to believe. And it's also the corresponding artwork from the past, the three toed, three fingered artwork, which is weird.

[A]

That is weird. And I saw some of those geoglyphs down there in the middle of nowhere. You know, these. And so, and then the whole thing with, you know, the, with James Fox and the, the Brazil incident, that thing, you know, the, the, the three fingered thing is a weird thing in history with these bones. I mean, I'm gonna have to point you to some of, some of the videos that, that these specialists have come out analyzing the, the files. So. But where the money is is exactly what's happening now. We have this possibility. We're going to make a show about it. We're going to put out this new thing. It goes deep, Joe. The same doctors, the same specialists that are verifying currently the Nazca mummies have been on the same team for the past 20 years, verifying other species and specimens that they've alien hybrids and say the same. Pete, literally my whole video I'm just like, this is what he said in 2007. This is what he said about this fake thing in 2012. This is what he said about the fake thing in 2017. And I put it back to back. So it's the same narrative, same people. It's the same people, the same narrative.

[B]

And so you think that the construction has just gotten more sophisticated.

[A]

100%, 100%. They learn.

[B]

What is that? The.

[A]

The major one, Maria and Montserrat.

[B]

Well, look at. Let's find Montserrat and see. See the Jesse Michael stuff, because he went down there, looked at them, and they did scans on the bodies. And.

[A]

And then if I have a link to. I think it's Dr. Morrison talking about Montserrat's feet. The. The X rays of his feet and pointing out that's. That's on the spreadsheet.

[B]

Well, let's see that. I'd like to see that. So do you think that these are recent creations of old bones? Is that what it is?

[A]

That's what I think.

[B]

Okay. And how do you think they did it? Is there any speculation?

[A]

I think that. So there are.

[B]

So here's the. What's that?

[C]

Jimmy just asked him a question. I cut them off. Oh. How did you think they did it?

[B]

How do you think they did it?

[A]

Well, I think that they. I think they've gotten very good with taxidermy.

[B]

Right. Like, because we've seen that before where you take, like, an owl and you attach it to an iguana.

[A]

In fact, in. In the research I did, there was this. Dude, there was this demon fairy thing in 2017, if you want to pull up my video.

[B]

Let's start with this. Let's start with this. We'll get to the demon fairy thing soon.

[C]

Talk about this shit.

[B]

Is what. So metatar. Okay.

[C]

This is a. From a surface scan that was available, and I went in and just kind of removed some of the fuzziness so that I could highlight the bones. And one of the things, again, that you notice is that the joints have a lot of spacing between them. These are not joints that are in contact, so they're dislocated. Now, the main. The main part here, this. The central area where the cuneiforms are in the cuboid, those articulate with five metatarsals. Normally, the way these are lettered, A would go with the big toe and E would go with the little toe. And again, just like in Maria, those are missing, but the joints are not lined up properly. The shapes of the joints don't go with the matching bone on the cuneiforms of the cuboid.

[D]

That's exactly what I was seeing in ct. So none of the articulate foundations of the. The metatarsal junction really made any sense. And some of the bones didn't even meet an articular surface at all. So that jumped out to me immediately, because then my first question goes to. How would that even be a functional Foot. So Montserrat, that's.

[A]

So that's.

[B]

Why does Montserrat have tendons? Click on that. Keep it going a little bit.

[D]

Where I thought I saw the razor resection, because people were talking about there still being tendons and stuff intact. And I would agree that some of those metatarsals are, as Dr. Proctor pointed out, in the correct position, but then some are just missing. So if you wanted to elevate the illusion, one of the ways you could do that would be by performing a raised resection. And essentially that's a function conserving surgery where if you've had damage to your metacarpals or your metatarsals, they'll remove that metacarpal or metatarsal and kind of rearrange your fingers or your toes and the remaining metacarpals to keep your limb functioning. So her feet, Montserrat's feet were just a little bit different, where I think they might have used more complex procedure like that versus Maria, where her feet just looked more like arts and crafts to my eye.

[A]

So. And that's the. So Maria came up. If these things are hoaxes, there is also. If we're just going with that angle, there's a clear evolution of the work that goes into them behind the scenes. Like that one came out after the first one. The first one got called out on a whole bunch of things. All of a sudden, the next iteration doesn't have the same issues.

[B]

Oh, right. They're correcting.

[A]

Yeah. And so. And that's actually. I forget. There's an archaeologist on X. He said that's very common in. In the world of fake antiquities. Like, they learn once they get called out on something, they'll figure out how to make the pottery better or something like that.

[B]

Is there a lot of money in this stuff?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, apparently.

[B]

Where's the money coming from? How does it.

[A]

For me, it's not even in. In the. It's not in the sale. The. The most money coming from this is not in the sale of these things. It's in the shows that come from it. It's in the series. It's in the subscriptions to get to the next season where they're going to finally reveal the truth about. There's a lot of money being made in the background. And that's part of the deep dive I went on, like, following the money.

[B]

So who do you think is making them? Do you have a theory?

[A]

I believe that there's actually. It was in. It was in my video and one of Will's videos. There was a grave robber, a whistleblower, grave robber who was part of this team. And he shares how he was getting stuff for Mario, like the main guy. I. There's got to be a team of specialists working on this stuff. And I mean money went into. Money went into making these things because money's going to come from it.

[B]

I mean that seems like a lot of money though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you would think that that would kind of fall apart. I would.

[A]

I would.

[B]

It is falling apart, but it is. Understands. But I would say like someone would rat somebody out. These are unscrupulous people.

[A]

That's part of the reason I also decided to make this video. And a lot of the pushback on this stuff is like, oh, you don't. You don't trust, you know, Latin American doctors or anything. No, it's not that. It's the Latin American doctors from Peru and journalists from. They're afraid to talk about this stuff because things can get violent down there.

[C]

Surrounding this topic article from 2012 about a mummy being stolen. And it goes on to talk about. There's a. Right. The bottom.

[A]

The eco mafia.

[C]

There's a mafia.

[A]

The eco mafia.

[B]

And in fact the mafia.

[A]

The guy Mario who. There you go.

[C]

Officials have worn about the existence of a mafia dedicated to the trade with links throughout Southern America and Europe. And at the time is $18 million a year in stolen archaeological artifacts Peru estimated was being taken out of the country.

[B]

So this is all going to like wealthy people in other countries that want to have these artifacts in their homes.

[A]

Yeah. And so I've seen the text messages with some of the American buyers.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So these guys are just like, come on into my den. I'll show you a mummy.

[A]

The. What I'm talking about specifically was tapestries.

[B]

And.

[A]

And it was actually the guy I met in the artesanalis in Miraflores. And. And he showed me video. He was very open with me. He showed me videos of. Because the. The buyers want to see provenance. The buyers want to see them pulling the. The artifacts out of the ground.

[B]

Right. So they just bury them and then they just.

[A]

Well, no, I mean that sells the stuff.

[B]

Mummy crowdfunder leaves archaeologists fuming. So there's a guy in London that's selling this stuff.

[C]

So Victor Wind museum in London. Cabinet dedicated to dead people. And they were trying to get a mummy from Peru. Wow.

[A]

So it's.

[B]

What do you think is going on with the skulls? The elongated skulls?

[A]

If you. Jamie, I have. I think that it's one I found.

[B]

You found that one.

[A]

Oh, yeah. That's one of three I've come across.

[B]

Now, there. Supposedly there's a difference in the way the. The skull, you know, when you're a child. What is it called?

[A]

The sagittal sutures. Yeah, yeah. I found some without the. Every elongated skull that I've. The three I've come across all had the sagittal.

[B]

All had that suture like a normal human does.

[A]

Like a normal human.

[B]

So these would be from pressing boards on the child's head when they're in development. Binding.

[A]

But then the question is, why would you do that? And, I mean, I, err on the side of. You don't just come up with that. You're trying to imitate something.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and so that. That's. And then you see it in Egypt and the hieroglyphs and stuff. So I do think, like, there is. You know, there's. We've. We've labeled things. Other species with just a bone fragment. You know, I'm like, there's deserts of these things. And I think that if the right study went to them, you might have a separate species. If you put the money towards studying this stuff. Because it's all out there, man. Right.

[B]

Like a separate branch of the human species.

[A]

Possibly am. Right.

[B]

Which makes sense. I mean, they're finding separate branches all the time.

[A]

All the time.

[B]

The Denisovans, you know, all the. All these different ones that they found within the last 20 years. And there could be something with a larger head, an elongated head.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And that's the. I don't know enough about Osteo whatever to go in depth about it. But it. I mean, either you had whole cultures just doing this, or there's too many of them for it to have just been kind of some elitist practice, I.

[B]

Think, and a bizarre practice at that. Like, why would you want to do that to your kid's head when clearly it's probably not been done to your head? At least the first people. Like, what were you trying to imitate there?

[A]

I forget who told me this. There is some. I think Will told me this. There's some woman who did this practice on herself, like, actually trepanated her own head.

[C]

We talked about that.

[B]

Yeah, well, we've talked about trepanation when we had that woman on to herself.

[A]

Okay, well, yeah. Wait, so you had her on?

[B]

Yeah, well, a woman who did. What was her name again? The psychedelic lady. She's. I believe she passed, didn't she? Recently. Really fascinating woman. Amanda Fielding. She. She died recently. Right? Yeah. So but she did self trepidation.

[A]

She did self trepidation, but that's not.

[B]

Elongation of the skull.

[A]

No, but if there's an idea that what that trepanation might have done in, in the ancient days, they did it like to release the evil spirits if somebody was afflicted with some sort of psychosis or something. But, and I forget if it was Amanda, something happens in with your brain waves when like the brain is exposed or something, like there's some sort of. I don't know how the fuck do.

[B]

You find that out without doing it?

[A]

But if the skull is elongated, I don't know if it gives extra space to. I forget who told me this, it like changes the chemical structure of the brain. That like kind of like a DMT experience, you're open to more things. Oh, and so an id, an idea is that if you elongated it and had that extra space in the skull for the brain to have more oxygen, I guess maybe it affects your brain.

[B]

Chemistry, I don't know, just pure speculation. But one of the things about some of these skulls they found is that the volume is larger than a, than a human brain. So how would you do that? Just by stretching it out with boards? I mean, it would seem like you have the same volume, you're just changing the shape of it, right?

[A]

Yeah, but there are some, like you said, that have more volume, that would appear to have more volume.

[B]

And have there been no studies on these weird ones, the ones that don't have those sagittal lines that correspond with human veins?

[A]

Because some of fringe studies.

[B]

That's the problem.

[A]

That is the problem.

[B]

What are we looking at? Are we looking at an animal head that they've kind of like shoved onto, like human features and glued things together?

[A]

Oh, with the, with the mummies.

[B]

I mean, some of these skulls.

[A]

Well, I mean some of the like, like the one you just saw, I mean they're, they're there, they're just out in the desert. I don't know why funding hasn't been.

[B]

And you found them just sitting there and you just leave them there?

[A]

Yeah, I put a pin on. I mean, eventually one day I would like to, I don't know, form some sort of relationship with the Ministry of Culture. Because the thing is, nobody's going out there. And I specifically went to places this last expedition that I went the first year just to see what happened a year later, and those places were looted even more. The things I had found and come across and documented, like an elongated skull, wasn't there anymore. So These things are being taken and sold.

[B]

Makes you wonder how much of it was there in the past.

[A]

I mean, I don't like that 8km of looting. It was all bones and textile and pottery. I mean, just eight full kilometers and, like.

[B]

So it's an eight kilometer graveyard.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

When I'm looking up trepanation.

[B]

Oh, that's a weird one.

[C]

This elongated skull is coming up. Apparently this one is in Oklahoma museum of some kind.

[B]

That's the one that looks like it's had surgery on it. And there's like some sort of a metal implant.

[C]

It didn't come up in that. In that context. Like, this one's coming up too. But what they're saying is that the metal implant is used after trepanation's been done to sort of patch the bone sometimes.

[A]

That has been. That has been documented as happening.

[B]

What kind of metal are they using on your head?

[C]

Well, that's the weird thing too, because that metal has come up in the skull scans on, like, Monster Out. I don't know which one in particular had it, but they're saying it's got, like, metal that wasn't available, you know.

[B]

What's that one in the lower left hand corner? That one looks crazy.

[A]

Oh, that's the Chungo skull.

[B]

What's that? Okay, so that one that's in the chunk.

[A]

Yeah, that's. This is.

[C]

It's in Paracas. I mean, that's.

[B]

Click on that.

[A]

It's very close to where I found the one I showed you from my footage.

[B]

Okay. That skull looks nuts. So that doesn't look like a human skull at all.

[A]

No, that one is like.

[B]

Look at the lines on that one. Crazy. That doesn't seem like it has any of the normal lines that a human skull has.

[A]

The museum, unfortunately, is closed now, so you can't go see it. I tried to.

[B]

Well, where is it?

[A]

It was in. They. The Ministry of Culture shut down that museum.

[B]

Oh. The collection often accept exceptionally elongated skulls found in Paracas, particularly around the village of Chongos near Pisco. Dating to around 700 BCE to 200 CE. His skulls exhibit severe artificial cranial deformation practice used by elite Paracas culture members to signify status. Huh. That is the.

[A]

The one we just saw in that. In that museum is the largest one.

[B]

But it's weirdly large. Can you find some more images of that one?

[A]

I'm trying to find.

[C]

Find some other stuff that's not three years old or older.

[B]

Oh, it's okay. We'll just see the images of it.

[A]

It might be hard for that one since the museum closed.

[B]

Right. But there's images.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that looks like it's a lot more volume than a human head. The one on the far left. Just the one? Yeah. Either one. The one below it like that. Just the image alone of that. How do you get a normal human head to be that large without some sort of. It looks like you stuffed a balloon into someone's eyeball and kept pumping it up, you know, while they're a baby. Like, what. What the hell is that? That's so much bigger than a normal human skull.

[A]

And then you think if it. You know, with the skull binding practice, I mean, are you. Is there going to be some form of mental difficulties with that human being now?

[B]

If it's a human being or expanded capacity or.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because. So the cranial capacity is 25% more than a normal skull. It weighs 50% or 60% more than a normal skull. Also, the eye sockets are larger and the jaw is larger and more compact. God, that looks like a different kind of human.

[A]

So there's.

[C]

There are.

[A]

And when you go to these museums, there's all sorts of. There's.

[B]

What's that one up there? The one to the right of your cursor? What the. Is that. Is that real?

[C]

That's why I was. I didn't want to go here.

[B]

Whoa.

[C]

Bring up a bunch of fake, too. That's what I was trying to.

[B]

Is that fake?

[A]

I've seen that one before.

[C]

I don't. It. Taking me to Facebook is already a big red flag.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Facebook is a hub of fake man.

[A]

They can't escape it.

[B]

It's the same picture. So a lot of them are probably AI generated. But that one, that's 25. Larger than a normal human skull. And larger eyes. The eye sockets are fucking huge. That's also weird. It's just like. That's the problem with all this looting that's been going on for so many years. It's like they. There might have been some evidence of a different kind of human that lived with these people. And I mean, imagine if we find out that that different kind of human was what populated that area, and they were the people that built Sacsayhuaman.

[A]

And because Paracas is the highest concentration of the ones that have been found, but you find them up in the Cuzco region too. There's a video I have. I think. I think it's Chisniri C H I S I N Can I ask you what.

[B]

What is the conventional explanation for the larger capacity of the skull and then the larger eyeballs, the eye sockets.

[A]

I don't know that there is a conventional explanation other than it seems like.

[B]

You would have to explain that. Like, if that's not something different, Homo sapien, human being like you or me, what is that? That seems, that's a different thing. Right?

[A]

You would think, right?

[B]

Like if you look at a Neanderthal skull and you look, Mine's pretty close to one. But if you look at a Neanderthal tall skull and a normal human skull, you can clearly see the Denisovans. You clearly see the difference. Homo juliennes, you see the difference. That's different, man.

[A]

It's different. And some of this, some of the stuff in their, in their jaws and with like the set of teeth, there's differences. I mean, I haven't done a deep dive into it personally, but there are a multitude of differences that have been highlighted.

[B]

And for people that are skeptical, one thing you have to recognize is that it's really hard to make a fossil. Fossils, I mean, most things that die and have died forever do not become fossils. They get consumed by the earth like a normal thing would. That's why you don't find, I mean, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, if you're talking about going back 10,000 years, that's why you're not seeing much evidence of stuff. I mean, it's been so long. These things are preserved because they're between at most, typically at most 2000 ish years in that region, old. They're preserved so well because of the climate there, which is, I mean, when you're going in these barrels, you still see the hair of people. It hasn't disintegrated. Like, it's, it's there.

[B]

God, it's so creepy.

[A]

Dude, I have some creepy photos for you, man. Like, I don't know, you might want to put a disclaimer out before people.

[B]

Know on this show. You don't need a disclaimer.

[C]

Here's a quick question. I found a video of a guy with an elongated skull. He's talking about these and showing it. I'm just. Size of reference to his hand. Does the skull seem small?

[B]

It does. Unless he's got some giant ass basketball.

[A]

That'S kind of the size of the one I, I, the one I showed you earlier. It was smaller than you would think.

[B]

But a lot of the people there back then were very small. Right. They didn't have access to a lot of protein. Like, I went to Chichen Itza and one of the weirder things is how small the people are there. How small. The Mayan people. I'm short already and I was a giant compared to these people. It was really weird.

[A]

It's typically the same.

[B]

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[A]

Peru until this, when the Spanish came.

[B]

And then the interbreeding.

[A]

Then interbreeding. Yeah, but if you go to Jamie, if you just open up the photos remains folder, this is. This is the stuff you see. I mean, there's still skin on some of these things, like, which is why.

[B]

Whoa, that's creepy. And how old is that hand?

[A]

Probably. I mean, at this burial site, based on the artifacts I was seeing, it's Paracas or Nazca.

[B]

So go back one, Jamie, please look at the cloth next to it too. So what is that piece of cloth you think like. Ah, it's like it's braided at the bottom and then the.

[A]

I didn't see a hole in the middle, so I don't think it was. And it's too fancy for a sling, I think. So I'm not. I'm not 100 sure.

[B]

Unless it's a fancy sling. Like something.

[A]

It could be. Yeah.

[B]

Bows and arrows, fancy guns.

[A]

True, true.

[B]

Look at the hand, man. That's so crazy.

[A]

But so. And what you see to the right of it is like, what kind of looks like burlap is? I mean, that's what the mummies were wrapped in. They were stuffed with cotton or put in the fetal position, wrapped with textile, then cotton and more textile and ropes and. And that's some of the cotton and.

[B]

Wrapping that the grave robbers had torn apart trying to find gold and jewels and things like that. Yeah.

[A]

And what's unfortunate is some of the. Oh, some of the most beautiful pottery there too. It's just completely destroyed.

[B]

Wow. Whoa. Look at all those bones. This is. You found this?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God, that's got to be creepy, just seeing all those dead people's bones and rope.

[A]

It's. It. It affects you, man. It definitely does.

[B]

And what's the time period of this.

[A]

This, this is 2,000 years. This, that, that picture actually isn't, isn't from Nasca. That was another. I have a video of this to show you. This place.

[B]

There's just so much weirdness about Peru. Just the Nazca lines alone, like what were they doing? Why were you making artwork you can.

[A]

Only see from the space?

[B]

That's crazy. Oh, look at the hair.

[A]

That's nuts.

[B]

Oh, normal sized skull though.

[A]

Actually that one, I, I, I don't have the pictures in that folder but I measured it. It's, it's, it's incredibly bulbous. It's much more bulbous than a normal skull. That's.

[B]

So you're just getting a side view of it. It's.

[A]

Yeah. And I put the tape measurer there next to it.

[B]

And that's crazy. You see the skin?

[A]

Yeah, isn't it?

[B]

The skin and the hair on the skull. Oh God, that's creepy.

[A]

It's. Why, yeah, man. I mean that, you know, I, I thought that I had gotten. This is another thing that's been set up.

[B]

And you think the grave robbers do this?

[A]

You know there were some places where I found things set up like this with little candy, little modern candies. And what that is, is it's a tradition called Pagola tierra. Paying the land. And so whoever left the candy I don't think was a grave robber, was probably a local and it was a, it's a way of giving back to the land, giving back to the ancestors. I started doing that with, you know, if I had a soda bottle or something. You pour out some Coca Cola, pay the land for walking, for walking to it and documenting this stuff. It was nice little practice, but so the, I would say that like 2000ish years old just, just to circle back. So some of these things, this is all on the surface. I don't go digging. That's not right. It's not on me. But the Walkeros do and that's where they're finding these things intact. They're finding these things intact where you can put them into a CT scanner and it's going to show the, the whole insides.

[B]

And has any, have any paleontologists done or archaeologists brought these skulls and brought them for examination to try to find out if there's intact DNA that can be studied.

[A]

They're supposed to be, they're supposed to be doing DNA tests on six of the specimens. But if you watch my video you'll see each time they've done DNA tests on all the Hoaxes that they've been a part of before. I imagine the results are going to be the same.

[B]

Yeah, but I don't mean the hoaxes, I mean the elongated skulls with large eye sockets things along those lines.

[A]

You know, there is a lot of the bureaucracy of how to go about doing anything with the Ministry of Culture in Peru is. It's so disjointed. You can't get things done. You just can't get. I know Brian Forrester for decades was trying to get some sort of official path to do DNA studies on these things. And so I mean I'm hoping with the work that I'm doing with Pillars of the Past that some of those boundaries can be broken where we can actually get permission to study these things. Because it's Peru's patrimony, you can't just go in there. And that makes sense. And so, and, and it costs money to do those things too. And you have to do it in, in the above board way. And so it's kind of waiting for the okay from them.

[B]

Well, it seems like at the very least the most bizarre elongated skulls should be studied more closely. It shouldn't just be like, oh, it's in a museum. Look at the head. Big, huh? Weird eyes.

[A]

Let's move on.

[B]

Look at this bowl. It's broken. But you know, pretty interesting. Let's move on. Like no, what the the is going on?

[A]

Put some money, figure it out and.

[B]

Because if it turns out that there was a totally different branch of the human species, it's huge.

[A]

It's huge.

[C]

I don't know the accuracy of this. That's why I'm hesitant to even bring it up. But as you're asking about that, that video I pulled up is this guy said that they tested 12 or 18 skulls.

[A]

That's Forester.

[C]

And some of them came back as Native American. I'm trying to, I'm reading the closed captioning, but some of them did not.

[A]

Some of them came back from the.

[C]

Black Sea area, the Caspian Sea, Black sea area, from two to 3,000 years.

[A]

Ago, which there have been skulls found out in those areas too. Wow.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Black and Caspian seas as in the Caucasus Mountains. Whoa. So that's very intriguing. What I can also share with you is what I believe was the migrational path because these people, like the, some indigenous people of the Caspian area and Black Sea area were and are dark red haired and also very light skinned and green eyes. And this seems to correspond as well with the elongated skulls.

[A]

So I believe they do have red hair.

[B]

Years ago, the ancestors of the Paracas decided to leave the area because they were being invaded by someone. And so they traveled south through Iraq and Iran to the Persian Gulf. And there they wound up sailing eastwards and eventually found their way to the coast of Peru. They're different.

[C]

Speculation.

[A]

Yeah. So that's the thing with. With theories like this. I'm like, let's put some effort to peer review this stuff, you know, like, let's. Let's do the studies that are needed, have multiple universities test these things, come up with the standard set of results. And then, I mean, so what is missing?

[B]

Funding, interest? It seems like this is in terms of, like really doing a comprehensive study of archaeological sites. Peru seems like the least studied. Is that accurate?

[A]

Half. Halfway, I would say only because, look, there's a part of me that also feels for the Ministry of Culture in a way where there's so many sites in Peru that to have eyes everywhere to protect it, to have teams excavating things every.

[B]

I mean, isn't that alone kind of crazy how many sites there are in Peru? And the fact that also you have Sacsay Juaman, you have the Nazca Lines, you have all this weirdness in this one part of the world, like why.

[A]

You have the oldest stone pyramids in the Americas, pyramids that predate the pyramids of Giza by thousand years.

[B]

What do they look like?

[A]

If you look up Koral, they are. Dude, I've done a whole thesis on this. I plan to write a. I don't think I'll ever get a peer review, but I plan to write a paper about my theories on some of the stuff I found. So coral was this area on the coast. It's C, A R, A L. And these pyramids had. Graham Hancock's been looking into this stuff too. This sunken circular plaza. So they're just. This is a. Whoa.

[B]

This predates Giza. Well, what we think.

[A]

The great prayer, the conventional data.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So. All right, let's. Let's see if I can condense this. This site has, I don't know, eight of these pyramids. They're actually all throughout the valley and four valleys around it. The earliest one in a separate valley close to this dates back to 4000 BCE. It has the remnants of a sunken circular. The main thing that's to keep note of is that sunken circular plaza, because it's a feature that you not only see there in those four valleys, but you also see it 200 kilometers north of Peru.

[B]

What's the conventional explanation for These sunken circular plazas.

[A]

Ritual spaces, some people say collecting water, some people say the acoustics are different. Here's the interesting thing about it. This site was discovered in the 1940s. Nobody did anything about it. The, the archaeology. This is what you'll. This is what happens in Peru in the. From the 1900, early 1900s to 1940s, archaeologists and historians were going up and down the coast finding stuff. I mean, just finding stuff. And they would write it down, they'd put it on the map. That's why the Ministry of Culture has it on their archaeological database. They pick through it what they could put stuff in museums and just move on. That site Corral predated any ceramics. I mean this was a pre ceramic culture. So there were no artifacts to find. So they just moved on. It wasn't until Dr. Ruth Shady in the 80s and 90s actually put research in and figured out, hey, this is older than everything else we found. Because they just overlooked it. There were no, no artifacts. They were just like, we're going to move on.

[B]

When you say no artifacts, like that seems weird to me because like, why would you make these immense structures and not have a bowl to put rice in? Right.

[A]

They, a lot of animal skins and the weaving. So these cultures, what they found is. So that's a little, little further inland. They had a sister site on the coast and so what they would do, the only agriculture they would grow was cotton. That cotton they would trade with the people on the coast so they could make nets and fish with it. The fish they would bring back, they would give back to those people who made the cotton for them. So it was this weird, you know, interplay. And the other unique thing about this time period is there was no evidence of warfare for a thousand years. Nobody was fighting each other. It was very just everybody. No weapons, no anything like that.

[B]

No weapons.

[A]

No weapons for a thousand years.

[B]

That seems insane. Is that just no evidence of weapons?

[A]

That's currently no evidence of weapons.

[B]

Right, but maybe someone stole the weapons. That's possible because I mean, you're talking about a place that's been looted ad nauseam.

[C]

Right?

[A]

That's true. I mean they put in a lot of work though, excavating especially that site corral.

[B]

So you feel like somewhere they would find some sort of a axe head or they found.

[A]

The only artifacts of major note are some of those carvings that we saw and then bone flutes with carvings on them and the nets, the fishing nets. And my whole, my whole theory is this was a pocket. It's called the Norte Chico culture. It's a little pocket of these four valleys. And I went all over them, documenting these pyramids. They don't look like pyramids anymore. They look like mounds. They're sold. But there's another place, 200 km north in the Kasma Valley, and what they have found is underneath the structures that are currently exposed, they found deeper layers of temples with that sunken plaza in this whole other location. And those are dating to the same time. So I firmly believe that what we. What archaeologists currently say is the oldest culture, I believe it was. It went the whole coast of Peru. Wow. I mean, like, this was a cradle of civilization. I mean, hands down, cradle of civilization.

[B]

6,000 years ago.

[A]

6,000 years ago.

[B]

So. Which is right around the time we think the cradle of civilization happened in Sumer. Wow.

[A]

And so the hard thing about it is, like, you. You'll have car. You have some carvings in adobe that's been preserved in some of these places. So there's some sort of iconography, but there's no writing like the Sumerian. The. The whole thing about Peru is like, there was no. No writing system that we know of. There is a theory, and I believe this. I believe the khipus, the rope strings with knots. Yeah. I believe that was a language. But the Spanish burnt. As soon. As soon as the Spanish came over, they burned as many as those things as they could find, and they killed the people who could read them. So we don't. We won't ever know.

[B]

Oh, God. Spaniards. How dare you?

[A]

But there's, like, there's evidence that they would. They took some. Some of the Incas to the Spanish court. And so there's an Inca in the Spanish court in front of the. A queen or king reading off of these khipus, reading stories, telling the core.

[B]

From knots on strings.

[A]

From knots on strings.

[B]

And that understanding of that stuff is lost.

[A]

It's lost. Currently, I think for the last few years, there's been some studies being done in Harvard trying to use AI to figure out what these. I mean, how many of these are left over?

[B]

Can we see some images of them?

[A]

I think five hundred to a thousand. I mean, that's it. I mean, the Spanish went on a mission to burn all these things because.

[B]

They were trying to convert them to Spanish and get them to speak the language and become Catholic.

[A]

Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. And. And then, And. And so much history is lost because of it. Yeah. So it's. But what's interesting is at that oldest place at Coral, they found a khipu. They found one of these knotted strings. And it wasn't a fishing net. It was what looked to be a khipu. And so if you have that tradition going back 6,000 years, I mean, that's. There's a lot of pictures from 1994.

[C]

This is what it looked like then. Doesn't look like anything.

[A]

See that on the right? Right, those pits.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's looting bits and. Wow.

[C]

That's what it looks like from above here. I was looking at a map.

[B]

Oh. So they had to dig it up.

[C]

This is the map from above. It's a pretty big area.

[B]

Why is ancient history so damn fascinating?

[A]

If you go on my spreadsheet, there's a place called Erade. What is it? I'm looking at my notes here. Sunken plaza, Era de Pando. It's a link to my YouTube. So this, what we're about to see is right across the valley from corral. So all throughout that valley are these sites from that norte chico culture. And I'm like, right there on top of this pyramid. And just the drone footage is epic, man.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So I went on. I went on a mission looking for these places. That's it.

[B]

The thing about this that is so compelling but also so unsatisfying is that a lot of these stories, you're never gonna get the full answer. No, you're never going to get the full history. It's just the mystery will never be satisfied. You're always going to be hungry, you know, which is. Is that for a person like yourself that studies these places and has dedicated so much time to it, is that in any way frustrating, or does it add to the.

[A]

Both.

[B]

Well, I got a 6,000-year-old question.

[C]

There's no one there with you at all, it looks like.

[A]

No, not.

[C]

So no one can stop you from taking.

[A]

No, I digging.

[B]

Oh, look at that.

[A]

No, I mean, if you get. If you got caught. Yeah, this is just me. I. I actually spoke to. There was an archae, an archaeologist, who told me to go to that place. And so I went, and I just. I was the only one there.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So this is. My whole thing was I identified most of these places through Google Earth first. Like, they're. They're not labeled. These places aren't labeled at all.

[B]

That's crazy. So these aren't documented places.

[A]

This. This is.

[B]

So this one place right here is.

[A]

It's not on Google Earth, though. It's not on Google Maps. You won't see any marker of it. But I was able to do some digging because of the guy who Took me through the site. I meet this random guy, Luis. Luis is amazing. He's a farmer right. Right here. I freaked him out. He thought I was coming to rob him because he gets robbed often, apparently.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

But he walked me through the site and he. This one. Okay, if you pause it. That right there on the bottom right is another one of those temples with the sunken plaza, except that one has monoliths.

[B]

Oh, looks like Stonehenge.

[A]

Exactly. And nobody's done a study on astro. I don't know that stuff. But I can almost guarantee that there is some sort of astronomical alignment. So what happened was archaeologists did come back, did come here in the 90s, I think, and it didn't look like coral. They weren't going to be able to restore it, so they just kept it as a, you know, to find dating on. On these things. And it, it's from the same culture. It's just a couple valleys over.

[B]

H. Do you have any footage of the monoliths?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, It'll come up if you fast forward through it. It's going to be back. Back closer to where? Yeah, Elephant St.

[B]

We walk up to it.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Oh, interesting. So some sort of a stone circle of monoliths.

[A]

I put it through.

[B]

AI they're fairly small modelists though, right?

[A]

I mean, some of them are. Have been buried and removed.

[B]

Oh, so someone's got them in their house somewhere.

[A]

Some of them, yeah.

[B]

How much of that is a problem with archaeology? I. I know that that was a giant issue with Egyptian artifacts. A lot of like wealthy people in other countries would just get it imported to their. Their den and have a big fancy party.

[A]

It. It still happens. I will have to say that the. And, and I mean, I've seen it with my own eyes. Looting. I've never come across like somebody in the field doing, doing that.

[B]

Terrifying, right?

[A]

Would be freaky.

[B]

Yeah, because they'll kill you, dude.

[A]

You're out in the middle of nowhere.

[B]

And if they get caught, they're in deep, so they would want to get rid of you.

[A]

And I mean, what a. I know for a fact the way some of these get out of the country is some of these guaqueros have people on the inside who write them certificates and things like that that say it's an authentic piece that has been owned by the family for this long. So they can get it out of the country to whoever they're so selling it to. That's how it works. What's a bigger problem though? Recently, after talking to several archaeologists and Witnessing it myself is agriculture. Agriculture they actually went to. I went to a couple sites that I found this by mistake looking on Google Earth. So I would find a site and I would like roll the satellite date back because sometimes different seasons give you better imagery. Like, holy hell. What exists now is a quarter of what existed 10 years ago. And now all you see is like plantations planted. I mean, they have literally paved over the archaeological site to plant. Dude. And that is. It's become one of the bigger missions of the channel in eventuality because, dude, you don't know. This site could have aligned with. That site could have aligned with. You have no idea. And there's no documentation of it. There's no documentation because nobody's going out there. These places are far away, you know, but here, here's another peculiar thing. This last expedition, so I found one of these sites and I'm on camera and I'm ready to go in. Like, guns ablazing, like, how dare you do this? How dare you erase this? And I get there and I mean, it's crumbled stones, crumbled walls. And it's just this woman on her farm. And so I start talking to her. This wasn't corporate. This woman has in fact, did, in fact write to the Ministry of Culture to say, hey, I'm expanding my farm. They didn't get back to her, so she did it. She, you know, paved over or created plots on half the archaeological site. So it becomes a. I don't know. I don't know what the right solution is because I feel for this woman. She's actually. She's not. This isn't corporate.

[B]

This is surviving.

[A]

She's just surviving the corporate stuff, like, pisses me off. And I'll go hard on them and, and I do in some of my videos, but she, and she tried to do the right thing by reaching out to the Ministry of Culture. But what's she supposed to do, wait 10 years to get a response? You know, and so, and then I don't know how you empower these people, because from where I sit is at least if you could document it, then you'd have a record of it, you know, that's. That's what I'm trying to do when I go out there, create 3D models and put it. Put pins on a map or something like that, you know, so it's. It's a tricky situation to try to.

[B]

Figure out what's the most compelling site in Peru for you.

[A]

I wanted to show you this. If you, if you look in my Video footage Purulen Pyramids P U R U L E N this site, I think it is much more deserving of future study. It's a site that has 16 platform pyramids.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And what does this site date to?

[A]

So when I didn't this. Half my. Half my role here is like I'll go out and find these places. And then on the back end, when I make these videos, I go hard on the research. Like I spend too much. Pyramids. Purulin. That's just so you can have a sense of scale.

[B]

Thank God for drones, huh?

[A]

100%.

[B]

Okay, so that's a platform. So that is the remains.

[A]

That's dude. And that. So right back. If you look in. Back in the horizon, that's the coast. So this is right on the ocean. Which means this has been inundated for millennia by tsunamis. And it looks like it. It really does, right?

[B]

Yeah, it looks like it's completely washed over. Look at how the sand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yep. Is formed.

[A]

And it's. So I, I kept that in there. That's the wind. The wind is so I like I messed up my first drone flying it here. But check this out. I keep this in so you could just. There's another one.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Oh, it gets better, man.

[C]

That seems like a riverbed.

[B]

It completely seems like water's washed right over this whole area. I bet if you look at it from far above, it's even more evident. Yeah. Look at that. Wow.

[A]

And they're all the same. Have. They all have the same shape.

[B]

And what's the conventional explanation for this?

[A]

There was one study done on this and it was a brief survey in 1970. And this guy. Yeah, yeah, that's it. However, the archaeologist who did that survey. There's another one there. The archaeologist who did this survey has been quoted in the past 30 years saying he always wanted to come back here and do more research. He just never did. It's not an easy place to get to. But what they dated it at is even in that report, that 1970 survey, he's saying 1800 BCE but likely. Look at that.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Here's something unique if you pause it real quick. All right, so I looked on Google Earth and those toward the top center, you see those two block looking things? All right, so I was like the. I thought they were megalithic. They're not. All of these, all of these pyramids are carved out of the bedrock. Are carved out of the bedrock. And the only place that there were looting pits are behind those two stones at the top in that little alcove of the mountains, that was the only place. So I went there and there's bones there. So that's where people were buried. And I'm like, why are they burying people here? And I stand right in the middle and it's facing 89 degree, almost perfect. East, west, that little gap. So like that, that's where they were burying in their elite people.

[B]

So where the sun would rise in the summer solstice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now how old is this site supposed to be?

[A]

So they said in that report, he says 1800, they found one piece of pottery that's documented. They found one.

[B]

And so this is from the 1970 study.

[A]

Yeah. And so they're saying 1800 BCE that's right around when pottery started. But in that report, he says it's likely older as well. He thinks it's older, it needs more study. But that was it. That was the only thing that was put out there. I mean, this is 16 pyramids here. And if you look in my drone footage, you'll see it looks like there's another thing here, another thing there.

[B]

So it's in the neighborhood of 4,000 years old, but possibly older. Correct.

[A]

And I think it is. I, I would stake everything on it being found to be much older. Pre ceramic. Pre pottery.

[B]

The pre ceramic thing is nuts. All right, so like, here's the thing. What are they using for utensils, what are they using for plates? Like, what are they using to put their food on? And then if it is pre ceramic, what kind of tools do they have? And how are they carving?

[A]

How are they building these.

[B]

This out of the bedrock? I mean, imagine the amount of, of effort it would take for a human being banging a rock against another rock to try to do that and then to make it flat. Are these things level? Have they.

[A]

They're. I mean, this is the only modern. Most of my footage is the only modern media what in existence of some of these sites.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Of that site.

[B]

Imagine if you didn't exist. Imagine if you weren't exposed to that as a 10 year old.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, that's.

[B]

This is just gonna sit there for like another thousand years before somebody else.

[A]

Figures it out or it gets paved over. God, that's why I'm doing it, man. God, it's so weird.

[B]

But how weird is that? How weird is. It's just you, Raul. What kind of fucking, what kind of weight on your shoulders is there? That this one fascinating sight. You're the only guy that's got video of this modern video that's crazy.

[A]

Thanks for having me on.

[B]

You're getting kind of choked up about it.

[A]

Yeah, man. I mean, it's. It's a lot of work, you know, and it's just. It's something in me that I.

[B]

Well, it's. It's obviously very compelling to everyone that really pays attention to. Is this the.

[A]

That's when you look on the. The satellite.

[B]

And again, this is the thing. This is not. Like they put some rocks in place, they carved these things out of the bedrock, and they're fucking huge. That's what's so crazy about it.

[A]

I just. I had to. I mean, getting there was like, what.

[B]

Are we looking at, man? Like, that's the thing. Like, what are we looking at? And why in Peru? And what happened to this area where they had so much. So much sophisticated, complex construction that was absolutely abandoned and there's almost nothing left?

[A]

So they. Over the course of history, what they've found is that especially people like to build on the coast. And there's just up and down the coast to Peru, there's so much. But then a major, massive El Nino would happen, and that just floods everything. And so people are like, well, we gotta go up into the mountains. So they start going further into the valleys. Peru's so unique. You have the coast and then the Andes just start. You know, they just start going up until you get to, you know, the. Before you start getting into the Amazon, you gotta cross the whole Andes. And so for several hundred years, they would live further up the valley, and then they would come back and repopulate on the coast and build on top of the sites that used to be there. And then it would happen again, and they would go back. And so there's this whole cycle of. There's some places where you. You will find that direct. It's very hard to find megalithic stuff, though, like this stuff you're finding in Cuzco, for example, on the coast. You don't really find that. You don't really find that type of architecture on the coast. You didn't have that building material. You didn't have stones like that. And so it's my belief that some of these places existed further back than we think. Like this place here on the coast. The erosion and the. The wind and the water that must have affected it. I can only. I have footage from. What we just saw was drone footage from this year. I didn't get much drone footage the year before. I could already see how much has been covered in one year. In one year, from from having gone there again. And. And it's just imagine over millions of years or thousands of years.

[B]

How crazy if you had to just take a wild guess with no one holding you to this at all. How old do you think we're talking about here?

[A]

I think there's. I go back pre cataclysm, the young Andreas. There's evidence on, like, Huaca Prieta that there was this mound that was carved out of the bedrock that Tom Dillahay and his team excavated, and that academically accepted, dates back to 12,500 BCE. And so there were. There were people living on the coast at that time.

[B]

So this mound, what does that look like?

[A]

There's a. It looks just like a. This is an interesting site. That's it.

[B]

What am I looking at here?

[A]

That mound?

[B]

That's anything that's not a natural mound.

[A]

No, it started off as natural. And so what they. What they found was they would use their refuse and so they would put trash on top of the mound and then cap it with. With like, adobe mud. So it would become strong, it would become a platform, and then they would build on top of it.

[B]

So it's a trash mound.

[A]

Part of it.

[B]

How weird.

[A]

That wasn't an uncommon thing.

[B]

And that's more than 11,000 years old. And what is that? They have writing from there?

[A]

No, that's.

[B]

That cloth.

[A]

That's.

[B]

It's hard to say.

[A]

Fishing nets.

[B]

Oh, I see.

[A]

It's one of the oldest pieces of cotton. So you ask how they were carrying things and all that with the cotton, but the cotton was coming from further inland. It wasn't coming from them. So even back then they were. So here's the kicker. And this is part of, like, the paper I'm thinking I'm writing. There's evidence at that place, Huaca Prieta, of a sunken circular plaza. And that predates all the ones we saw by. And even by 2000 more years, I think this is where that tradition started. Wow. I think that's where it started far earlier than anybody accepts or knows.

[B]

Now here's the weird one. Like, how did those people get there?

[A]

Dude, you know, I've thought about this. I mean, look, if you.

[B]

Right. If you're. If you're. If you're building these structures 6,000 years ago, 11,000 years ago, 15,000 years ago. When did you get there?

[A]

When did you get there? And there's. Yeah, there's the plaza. So, I mean, I don't think it takes much. I think if you're living on the coast or. I don't know, by any sort of water and you see a piece of wood floating on it. You're like, huh? All right. Well, then a thousand years go by and you have at that point put some pieces of wood together to make a flotation device. You're able to navigate. Like, I just, I don't see it not happening. You know, eventually, right.

[B]

Especially with crazy people, it's right. I mean, someone's got the courage to just sail out there and hope you have enough water on you or you're.

[A]

Or you're fishing and you get stuck. You get stuck and there's a storm and it's like, whoop, right? And you could never make it back, you know, But I think that's happened in multiple places. I don't think that civilization is born and created without a. That sense of exploration, but also that natural ingenuity. I mean, storms happen and you see a log floating in the ocean. Well, I can use that to go catch more fish. All of a sudden you're seafaring.

[B]

Boy, it just. When you see stuff like this that's that old, that's 15,000 years old, you go, okay, well, this is all that's left from 15,000 years ago. What's left from 30,000 years ago? Because it's like double that. Right? Right now you look at 15, there's almost nothing. It's like, God, it's so little, but you get it. But if you went another 15 before that, are we talking. What is that?

[A]

And that's why I'm like, with the stuff beyond E is doing with the SAR tech. I'm just hoping that that can be affordable and applied in multiple areas to find things that are buried underground. One thing that I've always been curious about, why there hasn't been more research until I looked into it. All these places were on the coast of Peru. Well, sea levels were lower at one point. And so what's right off the coast of Peru?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and there haven't been many, if any, studies on that. I'm like, why? Apparently the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to. This is, this is what I read. Because I was like, why hasn't anybody studied this? Apparently the Humboldt Current makes it very difficult to do research out there where it becomes very expensive for the equipment you need and things like that. But I guarantee that you'll be. You'll find some stuff off the coast.

[B]

Yeah, it just makes sense.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Especially you find that. I mean, especially. We know that sea levels were far lower. Especially if that really is 15,000 years ago. We definitely know that sea levels were lower then.

[A]

Yeah, it wasn't like this. It's crazy too, man, because like, Tom Dillehy got. I mean, he got so much from the academic community for his research down in Monteverdi. And this site, which is interesting, how consistent it is.

[B]

It's still going on today the same way.

[A]

And.

[B]

And they're always wrong.

[A]

Right. It's like you would think you might want to have an open. Just leave some room.

[B]

The young archaeologists are. I think there's a lot of young archaeologists that have grown up with the Internet and they're really paying attention to this stuff and they're realizing. And also when you're young and you grow up with the Internet, you realize, like, gatekeepers of information are a real problem, and they always have been. And they're wrong about so many things. I mean, they're wrong about virtually everything. The official narrative of almost everything happens has holes in it.

[A]

Dude, I'm like something you said earlier too, like, this age of study and exploration and radiocarbon, it's not that old, Right. We've only been doing this type of research for 100 years with some of the new advancements. Like, you don't think something else is going to come along that might knock that out, Right. You don't want to leave room for that. Right. It's kind of dickish.

[B]

It's very dickish. But, you know, no need to focus on the dicks. But that's why things like Filippo Biondi's work is so devastating to the. To the narrative. Because this new technology, and if it shows that it's accurate and it is accurate on things that we know exist, that's where it gets really crazy. Especially when they looked 1.2km through a mountain to find the particle collider underneath and got the exact dimensions and a map of this particle collider, Right. So they know that it's accurate. And then. So what are those pillars? What are these 20 meter in diameter? What are these things?

[A]

And why would you not want to divest all the money you can possibly do to figure that out?

[B]

I think it'll happen. And I think one of the reasons why it's gonna happen is because of the Internet is because the. Just the pressure and the amount of interest. And also think about Egypt. Right? Egypt. A large portion of their economy is wrapped around the tourism.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the tourism in Egypt is phenomenal because it's one of the most incredible sites in the world. Wouldn't you want it to be Even more incredible. Like, what's more incredible than some unknown mystery of spectacular proportion? Something that goes a kilometer deep under the pyramids and they don't know what it is. Like, this is nuts. Also, these. Those shafts that go down that are filled with debris now that they can clear out, and it leads to what, at least this data shows tunnels and caverns and all this shit that's underneath there. Like, what is that?

[A]

That's. I mean. And I think Ben has done phenomenal work putting.

[B]

Oh, he's incredible. I love that guy.

[A]

The history and the story and the. And the accounts of being in these labyrinths.

[B]

And he's another guy that got into this because of the Internet, you know, I mean, he had a real career in tech. He's like, okay, I'm going to throw this out to be a YouTuber.

[A]

All right? I was. Who was. I forget who I was speaking to, but I mean, I. My goal is to document as much as possible before it's not there to document. And I mean, it's crazy to be on here in too much. My channel is. I still feel like it's in. It's in its infancy.

[B]

Well, I only found out about it a while. I mean, I want to say four months ago, five months ago, something like that. You know, I started seeing some of your stuff online, I think on X, and I started looking at it on YouTube and I was like, yo, this guy's going deep. How did you fund all this stuff? I mean, how do you have the money to go and do these things?

[A]

I went broke the first expedition. This was a total field of dreams. If you build it, I'll see what happens. And fortunately, I mean, people saw the work I had been doing up until that point. There were some GoFundMe donations, which was amazing. The fact that, I mean, just thank anybody out there, just thank you. The people who believe in what I'm doing. That's what fills me up the most, too. The encouragement and the support from people I don't know.

[B]

Well, the content you provide, though, is so fascinating and it's so interesting to people like myself and other people that are really interested in it. It's just a matter of getting you exposure. So the content is so amazing. It's just a matter of people have to find out about it. And then YouTube's a great. The algorithm on YouTube is so good because it'll recommend. I'll watch one of your videos and it'll recommend something else interesting, you know, and then keep going on and on and on.

[A]

Well, and so I came back from that first expedition. I was there. The first expedition was 23 days. I had two terabytes of footage. And it's funny, that footage lasted me a year and a half until this expedition now. And I was out on this last expedition for 42 days all over the country. And. And I mean, the video you were talking about when we first started talking, that is, too, the only. There's no drone footage of that site ever. There is one Facebook post with pictures, and that's it. And I was like, I have to document this, you know? And so much from the last expedition is like that. It's the only. The only media that you'll see of it.

[B]

The fact that these pyramids carved into the bedrock, that you're the only one that has media, that is just absolutely insane. What are we looking at here?

[C]

I'm just digging around the area.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

This is a mummy lady cow they found in 2006, they call her. She might have been the first female ruler of the area. The Cleopatra of South America. These are pictures of her tattoos.

[B]

Oh. What.

[A]

So actually, what's interesting is, is it is being. There's a lot of evidence to say that some of these early. Early cultures were matriarchal, because they're finding a lot of the tombs of these queens right there on. Right there on the coast.

[B]

The sorcerer.

[C]

Yes. This one pyramid in this area called El Brujo, where Huaca Prieta is.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

They found this dope totem.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And so what's in. And so I believe this was the. The, I think Moche El Brujo. There are these paintings are on the wall.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, I. I have. I have a video on.

[B]

That's cool, too, because you see paint, so you realize that these things were very colorful.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Prisoners. And that this is a recreation of what it would have looked like then.

[B]

Those are prisoners.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So the actual thing I thought was cool here, too.

[B]

Why are they painting their prisoners? That's weird.

[A]

I mean, everything was painted, though.

[C]

This was where people.

[B]

I mean, why are they making depictions of their prisoners? You know what I mean? Not that they painted it different colors, which is kind of cool, but it's interesting. Like, how old is this supposed to be?

[C]

Anywhere from 3000. That's a very interesting part. 3000 BC is what they say it goes back to, but they say it wasn't developed until modern day, like 200 to 600 A.D. which is 3600 years of nothing.

[A]

So it was. I believe it was the Moche 1990.

[C]

This one was found and a Peruvian banker is the guy. It says it's philanthropic philanthropy. Philanthropically minded.

[B]

I can't say it right. And the. The Huacheros are the ones who told him about it.

[A]

And so that's. A lot of these places have been found because of Walketto is being reported. All of a sudden there's an influx in a little village of silver or something like that. And then somebody tells the authorities, they figure out where they're going to dig. I mean, there's a. There's a good book on it. It's the Lord of Sipan, where archaeologists literally had to like, stand guard. The townspeople weren't happy that when the archaeologists got involved and the townspeople were coming to get the gold and coming to get the silver, and so there's a whole book about it. I don't know why nobody's made a movie on.

[B]

Makes sense though, right? Because it's life changing. If they can find hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gold and silver in the ground. Buck these archaeologists.

[A]

Well, and some of the earliest. A lot of this stuff you'll see in the museums, like the Larco Herrera Museum. And. And a lot of this stuff, a lot of the pottery is preserved because you had these big plantation owners, these big technocrats, and their workers in the field would constantly be finding this artwork and these wakas. And so they were like, you know what? I'll give you $2 every time you bring me one. And now we have the Larco Herrera Museum full of this stuff. So. And there's. I was talking to Dr. Ed Barnhart about this. There's also. There's also so much in Peru that the people finding these things, they aren't. Maybe nowadays they're making a lot on stuff, but for the past couple decades, there was just so much you're getting $3 for. If you're a Peruvian worker in the field moving this thing up the ladder, you're getting $3 for a little piece of pottery.

[B]

How long have you been doing this for?

[A]

I mean, what. I've been with the channel two years.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

Two years, yeah.

[B]

And what were you doing before that?

[A]

A video editor.

[B]

And so you just said, you know what? I'm gonna just take a leap of faith.

[A]

My contract. My. I had a contract position. And it ended. I was posting these things I was finding on Google Earth. And I was saying, like, I think this is something. This is why I came up with this whole methodology. And people were like, you're full of shit. And I was like you know what, let's see. And I went and 100% accuracy. Every single place I saw on Google Earth that did not have a label was an archaeological site. Every single one I went to in that first expedition, I went to 90 in 23 days.

[B]

Yeah, nine.

[A]

That was the first expedition. I was there for 42 days this time.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So like I've got five terabytes worth of video footage of things nobody's seen.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But just, I mean imagine again, what if you didn't do this? That's what's nuts. That's what's nuts. Like we would be completely ignorant about this stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That just makes you wonder like what was like, like those stone pyramids carved in the bedrock. The only you have footage of it. What was that culture? What were they doing?

[A]

And, and all I have to go off of is what this, what made me happy is like. And I have it on, on the video if I'm talking to the camera. Like I think this, I think that, I think this card of this and that survey verified every little thing that I. Which was like pretty cool because I'm not, you know, academically trained to, you know, analyze these things, but I have the, I have the experience. And so it was kind of neat that every bullet point was verified by that survey. The feeling I got going to that place, in that place in particular, I don't think they're going to find pottery there. I don't think they're going to. I think it was pre ceramic. But I also think there weren't houses there. Weren't there? There might be, you know, if you go digging or do do some lidar. I think it was a place of pilgrimage. That's just my personal. I have nothing to back that up. That's what I felt though, kind of pilgrimage. It kind of intuit like when I was walking there. I don't know man. Peru is weird for the, the energy in Peru is different and, and so in what way? I want to say spiritual because I don't have a different word for it. It's just. You're just in tune with something. I mean maybe it's just the nature, maybe. But I mean I feel different down there and especially going on these far out places. And when you get to some of these sites like you feel a little different. And so just kind of the intuitive impression I got was I wonder if people were coming here as some sort of pilgrimage because I mean there aren't houses there. There's no evidence of People living there. So I think.

[B]

But is that because of time?

[A]

That's very, it's very possible.

[B]

That's the problem when you're seeing something, that's the amount of work that would take to carve something out of bedrock. Like those pyramids. And how many of those pyramids did you find?

[A]

There were like 16 of them.

[B]

Them, 16, okay. They're huge.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

They're carved out of the ground, out of rock. With what? Dude?

[A]

Here's the interesting thing in that survey. I didn't know this and I, I tried to pinpoint the location that main pyramid I was on. There's a black and white photo from 1970 where they found a carved out room in that pyramid structure. In that main pyramid, there's a. And it looks like a room. It's been human carved out. So there's chambers in some of these things. Why aren't we studying it?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Why haven't we gone back in also? How, like, what are you using to cut?

[B]

Right. Like what kind of tools do you have? And 6,000 years, like what, what, what tools were available?

[A]

It's so close to the ocean, you might not ever know because a tsunami comes in, it's taken it right back out.

[B]

Right, right. And if it's metal, it's gone anyway.

[A]

It's gone. Same with, same with, I think also like, I think that little alcove where all the burials were, I think that got preserved because it was behind this mountain. I think if there was any civilization there prior that might have been living there, all the bones that were there on the. They're gone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They got taken back out, of course, so.

[B]

And probably all the structures, any houses, if they had wooden houses or on.

[A]

Top of the land.

[B]

Yeah. Gone. Nothing left.

[A]

And so all you're left is with this strong. Who knows if those things were bigger too, you know?

[B]

Right, right. Who knows what was on top of those things? Right?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That's nuts, man.

[A]

The thing that gave it away on that side in particular is when you look aerially, every single one of those pyramid structures is facing north, northeast. Every single one. And that's for the sunrise on the solstice.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I was like, this is, this is man made. This is man made. And then there's still people on the comments who are like, that's, oh, that's just a mountain. And I'm like, dude, what more do you want?

[B]

Like, they think that those things were just. Oh yeah, they don't think those things are man made. Yeah, they're the same shape.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I know the same shape, the same size. They're all pointing in the same direction. Shut the up.

[A]

I've learned not to. To fight. And just like, you know, you're going to believe what you want anyway, you know what I mean? So it's the history.

[B]

I mean, Graham Hancock has the greatest phrase that we are a species with amnesia. And I think it's true. And I think it all points back to not just the younger Dry impact, but probably several other impacts. You know, my friend John Reeves, he lives in Alaska and he runs the boneyard.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

John just sent me some photos of a new site that they have that's under all these other sites, like deep under all these other sites where they're finding not just bone, but charred bone, like an entire area of like burnt tusks, burnt bones covered. And he thinks there was another impact.

[A]

An impact.

[B]

And, you know, just, just. I mean, he's just making a rough estimation because the, what, some of the sites that he found, it's somewhere around 10,000 years ago due to like, you know, doing the examination of the cores. And yeah, he thinks it's 20,000 years ago. So he thinks this is probably a normal thing that has happened all throughout the history of the Earth is the Earth gets pelted, you know, every 10,000, every 20,000, whatever.

[A]

I mean, just get hit. And that speaks to the, the myths and the legends and the Dryas and the Yugas. And I mean, every civilization has its version of, you know, this is the fifth epoch or the fourth epoch. You know, this is. The first one was fire. The last one was, you know, water. There's always several cataclysms.

[B]

The Yuga stuff is nuts too, because it just seems like, like it's so accurate. And we are in Kali Yuga right now, which is the Age of Deception. And like, what's more confusing, that's what it's called, right? Isn't it called the Age of Deception? Find out what. So what's more like, if you thought that it was all falling apart before it gets rebuilt, it's like, that's now like, this place is crazy every day. The news is nuts. I, I've gone on a social media hiatus over the last few days, and I feel so good. And I, I decided two days ago I'm not going back. I'm like, I'm not going back. I'll go back to post things. I'm never reading it anymore. I'll find my news. You know, people send me enough stuff as it is. My friends send me things. I don't have to click on them, but I know what's going on. Like, what craziness is happening. You just feel better when you don't do it.

[A]

And I've been sucked into the Nazca mummies thing. Sucked me into the back and forth on, On X. And it's toxic. It's so toxic, man. So, so toxic. And, and it's like at the end of the day, people are going, people, look, you can have all the evidence saying this one thing and everybody agrees. You're gonna have this group that it's like, well, no, for this reason. And then. And it's the same thing on the other side too. And so it's just this, this social media is this weird. What I'm. What I'm saying is it's just this weird loop of confirmation bias and, and.

[B]

Bitchiness and anger and arguments and infighting and attacks. And I just think that it's altering the collective psychological foundation of our society.

[A]

I agree with you.

[B]

And that's what's weird. And that's what makes sense. When you see like crazy protests and crazy people online, it's like everyone's getting. There's something that's happening to them. Well, what's this one thing that exists with everybody? It's social media use.

[A]

Yep. And. And I think, I don't know, it's. It's. It's hard. I tried to stay away and then I found myself like last week after I made like these videos just, just for the social media sphere as an example. Like, I was getting pulled into it. I felt myself as somebody who has not engaged that much. I was like, something has shifted, you know, and like, I was ready to get defensive and take things personally. And I'm like, this is an attack back. An attack back. And I was like, this is just continuing the cycle. And I don't want that. I don't want that in my life. I don't need any of that. So I just stopped, you know, And. But the level of defensiveness, the level of attacks, the level of. And it's not even at some points, it's not even just taking things personally. The attacks are personal. Sometimes it's like, what are you supposed to do other than not engage?

[B]

Yeah, you can't engage. I say post and ghost. That's my strategy. I like it. That's my strategy. And then, even then I'm telling people to stay off of it. So they're not even going to read my stuff. Like they're listening to me. But that's okay. It's okay. It's like, you find out enough. You find out about the important things and find out about shows that you enjoy, and then you subscribe, and then when new episodes come out, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah. You know, and so that's what I've been doing. And it's, it's a moment much healthier way. Like, the one thing that doesn't. And Jelly Roll was telling me this, like, you know, he got off also. He, he had no phone for, like, 18 months. No phone at all.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

It was crazy. Yeah. Like, I'd contact him through his guy that was running his social media.

[A]

Sounds like healthy choice.

[B]

Tell Jelly I love him. Tell him I said, what's up? And then recently he got a phone, like, over the last few months and only uses YouTube. He's like, My YouTube. He goes, I learn things, I get interested in things. And that's how I feel too. Like, I really enjoy YouTube. I, I. There's so much interesting content on YouTube about everything. I mean, it's just like we're living.

[A]

In, I mean, this is an incredible age where, I mean, I feel fortunate for what I'm doing that there's an audience for it, you know, and there's a platform that can allow that to happen, have some reach, because some stuff deserves the reach.

[B]

Well, what you're doing is very important. It's very important. Just the fact that you are the first guy to get media of those structures, that's crazy, man. I mean, it's really kind of crazy. You're a video editor. Two years ago, you decided to do this. You're the first guy who's documenting these things. And then we're showing millions of people right now kind of nuts. Like, how few people know that there was was some kind of a complex society that understood the equinoxes, pointing their structure toward it and not just building them with mud and bricks, but carving it out of the bedrock in a similar shape over and over and over again. And that's just what you found. Like, imagine how much hasn't been found, dude.

[A]

You just look at the aerial stuff and, I mean, Joe, I can't. This just, that's just the tip of the iceberg, man, like, of the content that. I mean, I'm going to places in the middle of the desert and seeing an adobe wall peek out at this one little section. And then I put the drone in the air, and you can see the outline of this whole structure. Just a little bump in the sand.

[B]

And no one Even knows it's there.

[A]

No one even knows it's there.

[B]

What happened to all those people? That's what's nice, dude.

[A]

That's the. That's the. Like when I say cradle of civilization, I mean, this was, I don't know, whatever is bigger than a cradle.

[B]

That's what makes sense. Right? Because if you think about the ice age and if all this stuff is pre ice age or during the ice age, that area is not covered in ice. And it's one of the few areas around the equator that's not up. And it's one of the few areas where people can thrive. So it really makes sense that that would be the area where civilization would not just thrive, but reach very high levels of sophistication where they're able to carve into the bedrock these massive pyramid structures.

[A]

There is interesting evidence that I forgot I was watching. It was on like Discovery or Nat Geo or something. But there's evidence in like the Okukahe Desert. I mean, they're finding another dark trafficking. Illegal trafficking web is like the. The sale of fossils. Because they're finding whales in the Okukahe Desert. And brings me to.

[C]

I was waiting to find a good point for this. They found that they were using whale vertebrae as stools. So they found this giant.

[B]

Dude, I want those for my bar.

[A]

Dude, that's awesome.

[C]

In 2023, they found what could be dubbed the most heaviest or the heaviest animal ever.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

I've been in touch with that guy's nephew.

[C]

Colossal blue whale found outside of Peru.

[B]

Each vertebrae weighs 220 pounds. Yeah.

[C]

The whole thing with the ones they found, 200 tons. And so like, as you were just saying, if they're not buried under tons of ice, then these people could in theory have found, you know, lots of these giant.

[B]

Holy shit.

[A]

In the desert.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Something else I'm stumbling across. I didn't get into it.

[B]

Blue.

[C]

Blue whale poop has apparently got some. Something interesting to it.

[B]

What's the deal with blue whale poop?

[C]

That's what I didn't really get into.

[B]

J. How do you go on these deep dives in the middle of a podcast? Jamie, you're a wizard, dude.

[C]

You start seeing stuff like the.

[B]

Whoa.

[C]

Having a poop.

[A]

Neon green.

[C]

I'm just imagining these giant 200 ton poops. Poops. And then what? You could. I don't know. It's red.

[B]

Oh, God. What are these people doing with poop?

[C]

They also think that they could have been eating in a different way. They're just sweeping up shrimp and shit. From the ocean.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I'm just, like, picturing what this looked like, you know, in the year zero, where there's a bunch of giant whale bones all over the coast and who knows what other octopus or whatever the.

[A]

Fuck else, what happens to that poop when it fossilizes, you know? But no, they're finding that. I mean, there is a dark web of trafficking for looking for stuff in the Okukahe Desert, where there were all these. These prehistoric animal bones. Are. They found dinosaurs and stuff there?

[B]

And again, it's. Is it just wealthy people that want it for their homes? Is that what it is?

[A]

This stuff I've seen, it's. I mean, really, that guy and a few other people just kind of going out there illegally looking for stuff.

[B]

But it has to be valuable for them to be willing to do this, right? So who's buying it?

[A]

Wealthy oligarchs?

[B]

Where are these people? I never met one of them that has some stuff like that. I want to go over someone's house, like, hey, you want to see some?

[A]

You got a whole museum right there.

[B]

Like, that's probably how you wind up on a list.

[A]

But, I mean, it's. There's still. There's still so much out there. And, I mean, if I just. Like, some of the structures I was talking about, like, you literally see a whole adobe wall. You see a whole temple complex. You see the remnants of a circular plaza. I mean, there's. There's another. If you go to the undocumented temple on this, on the spreadsheet. This is undocumented. No Ministry of Culture sign. It's not on the Ministry of Culture's database of archaeological.

[B]

How'd you find it?

[A]

Using Google Earth. Wow. And so here's the thing. All right, so circling back, we had that Norte Chico culture with the sunken plazas way down here. Here we have this. So that. Well, that's. That's what I saw on Google Earth.

[B]

No, go ahead, continue.

[A]

So. So you have the coral Supe culture down here, and then you have the. They found that sunken plaza underneath archaeological sites in Chasma way up here. So you have these two different. And they're saying they were separate cultures. I think they were the same.

[B]

How far apart are they?

[A]

200 kilometers or miles. I forget. So what? I was like. I was like, well, is there a connection between these two? So I looked in the valleys in between, and I found this with a sunken. A temple with a sunken circular plaza.

[B]

So you have them found it on Google Earth?

[A]

Yeah. And then. And then I went and I needed Help from one of the guys in the field to put. And that this. A lot of the people in these pueblos, like, they'll know every now and then you'll get lucky and someone knows the history. Every now and then, more often than not, it's. Yeah, there's some ruins right over there. And that's it. That's the extent. That's the extent of their knowledge. And so that. That was one of these occasions where the guy was like, if you just go this way and that way. And because I was looking for it, I was. I had a pin on my map, but I was getting lost. So I go and I find this place, and lo and behold, it's a sunken circular plaza, temple structure. I go up on top. There's pottery there. You can see where the. Where the Juaqueros have dug things out. There's walls, and it's just unexcavated. Nobody surveyed it. There's no documentation of it. It's just there.

[B]

Wow. Can I see it?

[A]

So that's what I saw.

[B]

This is what you saw on Google Earth?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And so you're just looking in between these two areas.

[A]

Oh, and it's also facing north, northeast, too. That also told me that it was probably something.

[B]

Okay. And then you see this. This you find on Google.

[A]

That's right next to it.

[B]

And then you went.

[A]

And then I went, what are you renting a car?

[B]

How the fuck are you doing this?

[A]

Yeah, what happens?

[B]

You bring these cars back?

[A]

Yeah, I have some pictures of driving out in the desert bed.

[B]

Like.

[C]

Like.

[B]

Okay, so this guy's helping you. Is this a guy, a local?

[A]

Yeah, he was just working in the field there.

[B]

Okay, so these are the fields. And he tells you where this stuff is. So all the locals know where this stuff is.

[A]

And then pretty soon I start walking up to it.

[B]

And this is completely undocumented.

[A]

And it's. You can see the plaza there. It's all rubble. So something happens. Some. Some earthquake or. So I'm walking up to the top of it, and then.

[B]

So right now, it just looks like rubble. It doesn't even look like it was.

[A]

A building right from the ground, at least in half. So many places. I'm like standing right in the middle of the. Right in the middle of a site. I don't even know until I put the drone in the air. I think it's coming up here. You'll see a.

[B]

See.

[A]

Should come up here shortly. There you go. Okay, so clearly underneath all of that is rooms, right?

[B]

So you see the Bricks, a piece.

[A]

Of pottery, some of the walk arrows took out. But that was evidence to me that I. So underneath this whole thing are walls and chambers and rooms.

[B]

And you just found this on Google Earth.

[A]

And it's the same style as that coral Supe culture, the early one from, you know, 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

[B]

It's just so hard to believe that this is unexplored and not just that undocumented. Yeah. And that you just find it on Google. Thank God for shout out to Google Earth. You know, Google Earth deserves some props.

[A]

I mean, seriously. Yeah.

[B]

All right. Crazy. And who would have ever thought people.

[A]

Asked if I used like advanced satellite stuff and I've only used Google Earth so far.

[B]

Look at this. Clearly some sort of a civilization was there that just got obliterated.

[A]

So this was weird. I. I don't know. Like that was just a cactus in the middle of it all. It was very strange. I don't. I still don't know what to make of that.

[B]

They can grow anywhere. That's what's weird about. But it is weird. There's only one.

[A]

Yeah. In the middle of it.

[B]

Yeah, but.

[A]

So there's pottery there. And I was wondering if it was the sand. There was one more cactus, like directly aligned with it.

[B]

Other San Pedro cactus down there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, man, these people were probably doing something. Something with the old psychedelic cactus.

[A]

I've got a place to show you, cuz.

[B]

San Pedro cactus is where you get masculine, Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Makes sense that if they have these temples and they have. If there's a pilgrimage, there's probably some sort of a psychedelic ritual involved. Look at this, man. What does it feel like to just find something that no one even knew existed like this? It's got to be a trip.

[A]

Like, thank God I was right. They spent 14 hours getting to this place. Like, thank God there was something. But there have been times too where I'll get there and it's the satellite. Google Earth has an updated itself and there's a plantation planted over some of it, you know, and it's like people, like what used to be here, if there's people around. I mean, sometimes, like I said, it's. It's. You can tell. You can kind of tell when it's corporate. The infrastructure in the area is different, but. But that's the other thing. There's. There's nobody monitoring this. I. And I was like, what's the solution? Do you pay somebody to call the Ministry of Culture when somebody's coming in with bulldozers? Leveling things.

[B]

And what would they even do? Probably the people with the bulldozers just pay them off.

[A]

Either pay them off or. Dude, at that corral site, Ruth Shady, the archae. She was shot by land traffickers. The archaeologist responsible for land traffickers were trying to take over the site. And she was shocked.

[B]

She was killed.

[A]

She wasn't killed. She was shot. And I mean, she's as recent as a few years ago is like, we're still not getting protections from them. They sent us one security guard to patrol the perimeter. These land traffickers, man, like. And. And it's for agriculture. It's for agriculture. It's not for loot. Looting is a happy byproduct for them. It's for the agriculture.

[B]

Squatters issue death threats to. Archaeologists discovered oldest city in America.

[A]

The oldest city in the Americas, and you're getting one. Rent a cop.

[B]

Wow. They called the site's lawyers and said that if he continued to protect me, they would kill him along with me and bury us five meters below the ground. And she's 73. They killed our dog as a warning. Oh, God.

[A]

They actually. When I think it was there was. Because when they excavate, they do it in seasons and stuff. And there was one season where like. Like land traffickers had started building on part of the site and in. In the off season from digging. So they had to deal with all of that. I mean, it's. It's crazy. It's like the wild west, man. Wow.

[B]

Any other sites to show us that are.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, dude, there's.

[B]

I know.

[A]

If you look at Shavin Cha, it's on the. Just on the media hard drive. So we're talking about underground structures and hallucinogens and stuff like that. This place, Shavin. So now this is a known archaeological site.

[B]

And how old is this place?

[A]

I think 2008, right around zero.

[B]

Look how far down it goes. How deep does it go? This is nuts, right?

[A]

And this is just one part of it.

[B]

Whoa. And this is 2,000 years old. least.

[A]

At least. So they wouldn't. They won't let you film in the other section. It kind of looks like this, but.

[B]

They let you film there because there's.

[A]

Something called the Lanzon monolith. And if you look that up, Jamie L A N Z O N Monolith. So that's it. So they won't let you film in there because too many people go in there and take pictures and the flash, supposedly. So they just.

[B]

Yeah, the flash, dude.

[A]

But when I went in there, the security Guard was right behind me the whole time. He knew I was going to try to take a picture.

[B]

Yeah, but you can take a picture with no flash now. Especially with like the new iPhones and Samsung phones. You could take some really high resolution photos.

[A]

The guard said not enough people know how to turn it off on their phone.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

So. But when you walk flash, is it up?

[B]

That seems crazy. That seems like voodoo, doesn't it? Doesn't it?

[C]

It could do it. The paint and stuff.

[B]

Come on. There's no paint on that thing.

[A]

And it's behind a piece of Plexiglas too.

[B]

That sounds like they're just control freaks. Like off, dude.

[C]

Make a reason for sure just to tell people, right?

[A]

So, so, okay, so here's the whole thing about this place. You saw how deep we went underground, right? It's in a comparable place with these hallways and, and, and Joe, I like completely stone cold sober.

[B]

That's what it looks like.

[A]

As soon as I walked in underground, something hits you. So it, it's. The air is different. So I. Dude, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it. It's.

[B]

And how'd you feel?

[A]

Lighter and a little messed up in the head, man.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you think there's a lack of oxygen? It's possible because it seems like you're deep, deep, deep underground. Probably limited oxygen because you get these caverns and a hole to the top.

[A]

I mean, I honestly, I wonder if it's built on some sort of. I don't like the, like the Greek sacred energy or Delphi with the gases or something like that.

[B]

I don't know, getting gassed in there.

[A]

All I know is that when you, when you go in, show me that.

[B]

That totem again, that monolith, what they.

[A]

Found is they found evidence of rituals happening there, like plates with, with hallucinogenic plants or substances. So people were going down there to do these rituals. And dude, this space, I mean, if you're gonna go on a trip, that's the place to do it, right? Like that's, it's. It's just you're. You're in an enclosed space. The acoustics are so weird. It's. It's trippy, man.

[B]

What is that image on that thing? It's a jaguar.

[A]

There's a. There's a whole bunch of imagery here that's like the fanged. So for a while they thought, they thought this culture, the Shavin culture, was responsible for the, the onset of religion in Peru. They called it the mother culture for Decades. And you see this famed deity. Dr. Barnhart talks about it a lot, this jaguar looking deity. They thought it came from there, but there's actually places that I went to where you see it on the coast for older. So it actually kind of flips that whole. It's not the mother culture, but their influence and their reach was extreme throughout the. Throughout the Andean world. So they were responsible for. That's when, like, religion took an iconography, got a major influx right after shaving culture there. They had it before, but not like this. So that's what's. That's what's on that statue.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just so ridiculous. They won't let you take a picture because of the Flash. That's so good. Somebody should talk to them, go, hey, man, shut the up. That Flash doesn't do anything. Devotees would be led into the maze of pitch black tunnels, eventually coming face to face with the sculpture, the worship worshipers. Disorientation, in addition to the hallucinogenic effects of the San Pedro cactus they were given before entering only heightened the visual and psychological impact of the sculpture.

[A]

I mean, that's.

[B]

God, people are weird.

[C]

They must have had it lit up with fire or some. Fucking sweet.

[A]

Yeah, dude. It was just going in there stone cold sober and feeling affected. I can only imagine what it was like being on San Pedro.

[B]

Is that the weirdest place that you've been to in Peru? Sacsay Juaman seems to me to be the most bizarre because just the size of the stone.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, how.

[B]

I mean, how?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

What are you guys doing? How'd you do this? How'd you figure out to make them interlocking in a way that if there's a seismic impact, they stay put.

[A]

How and. And how'd you get them there? How do they look like marshmallow? I mean, why are they, like.

[B]

Looks like they're melted.

[A]

I've gone on some deep dives. It's funny on that.

[B]

Yeah, look at that. That, man. The big ones on the bottom. Like how. And it's the style of them, too, which is so different. Where as you said, it looks like marshmallows, like they're melted into place. Almost like. Look at that one big one in the center. What the hell is that? How big is that?

[A]

I. I forget, but they go up to 200 tons.

[B]

I think that's got to be bigger than 200 tons, don't you think?

[A]

Probably.

[B]

Look how small those people are. And those people in the foreground get those people right up next to that thing. They'd be tiny. Well, Maybe it is 200, I don't know, but either way. But that one up there, you know.

[A]

How rounded these things are?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't get a piece of paper. The only way they've been dislodged is because of earthquakes. I mean, like it's.

[B]

Bro, look at the size of that and look at the way they interlock.

[A]

You can tell when you get up close, there is this reddish residue. Oh, there's so much. You can see there's often reddish residue. Like.

[B]

So they were painted at one point in time?

[A]

No, I think it was clay. In the Spanish, the indigenous people will tell you that. And actually, Percy Fawcett wrote about it in his journals too. Like this bird that would take a leaf, a red leaf, and peck it into the rock. And after a little bit of time, it would create a hole in the rock. Like it would help kind of melt the stone. Actually, the guy from the video, that unregistered megalithic site, told me the same story.

[B]

Okay, I know what you're talking about. There's a specific type of plant that has like an acid to it.

[A]

An acid. And I've started to. I like Dr. Barnhart's theory. And there's also a paper on it, a peer reviewed paper by Helmut Tributes where he talks about. Look, if you mix. If you mix pyrite from the offshoot of one of these Incan mines with this plantish material, you can create like an acid that will slightly deform the stuff.

[B]

So maybe you would set the stones in place that way. Secrets of softened stone. The lost techniques of the inc. From Facebook. So you know it's true.

[A]

No, no, no. But George Lira was. I did a whole. Some of my early videos, man, are like research papers. Like, I went. I went on a deep dive with all this. And the Spanish chroniclers talk about seeing gold in between some of the stones. But this guy also, helmet tribute who wrote the paper, says, what if it wasn't gold? What if it was pyrite fusing the stones, helping to fuse the stones together with this paste.

[B]

Look what it says there. It says the technique to carve and shape the stones remains a mystery. According to legends, the gods would have gifted the Incas two magical plants, coke. So coca leaves, which allowed them to withstand pain and physical exhaustion. And another plant that allowed them to soften stones. Stones, softened stones.

[A]

But you see that red residue?

[B]

That also makes sense. They did so much work. They're all coked. Up making these dope pyramids when I was a kid.

[C]

This morning picture I clicked on, but that didn't pop up.

[B]

Oh, that can't be real.

[A]

No, that's. I've seen that. That's an artistic creation. If you pull up, If. Do you want to stay on Cusco or go to one other place?

[B]

It's up to you, dog. Whatever you want to do.

[A]

Let's go to Tunnels Cusco. Dude, this whole. This whole part of the Andes. Yeah, it's. There's tunnels everywhere, man. Like, it's not just what they're doing.

[B]

So you're climbing down into this tunnel now. Is this a naturally formed.

[A]

Some of it.

[B]

Some of it. Okay.

[A]

On the way out, you'll see when I going, there's steps. Those were actual steps that were built. But these things, dude, you can't get to the end. You can't find. There are stories where kids get lost in these things and never found.

[B]

Oh, fuck. So again, these look like natural caves, right?

[A]

Some of them have been carved out, though.

[B]

So it's a combination.

[A]

It's a combination.

[B]

So probably there was some natural caves and then they started carving things.

[A]

Well, the whole thing, the whole thing about it was this gets weird.

[B]

So this is the steps?

[A]

Yeah, coming up on. On the right. I mean, it just. It just keeps going on.

[B]

Oh, I'm not going in there.

[A]

There's the step. There's the steps.

[B]

Jamie, can you imagine you and me outside the door going, oh.

[A]

That'S how my catch.

[C]

What?

[A]

Guide was just filming me.

[B]

You, bro. I'm not going in there.

[A]

I was like, I'll go in.

[B]

There's probably demons in there. That's like that movie. What was that movie? The Descent.

[A]

The Descent.

[B]

Dude, that was like the great.

[A]

Dude, I love that movie.

[B]

Great.

[A]

I watched it a while ago. I was like, 2005.

[B]

That's wild. That's old movie. Yeah, they did a Descent too. It's not as good.

[A]

Yeah, this is a.

[B]

Okay, it's not. It's not the best, but this is Descent one was awesome.

[A]

Yeah. One of the best horror flicks.

[B]

Yeah. And there's another one. Huh? Oh, that hole. Did you go in there? Please tell me.

[A]

Oh, of course I did, Joe. Of course.

[B]

With your Pillars of the Past shirt on. Oh, my God, dude, I don't even think I would fit in that hole.

[A]

I got a little scared because coming out wasn't. Wasn't easy.

[B]

I was just reading about this guy who died in one of those holes. A guy was a cave crawler and he got stuck trying to get out. He got in head first and then could not get out and just.

[A]

Was just stuck.

[B]

Died there, dude.

[A]

Like that.

[B]

Like that didn't even scream because his chest was compressed. Oh, God.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's some stuff I've done.

[B]

I'm not gonna do it like this, you know, and just couldn't. There's no way to get back out.

[A]

It's terrifying. Oh, that's terrifying.

[B]

You know how that never happens? You don't.

[A]

You don't go.

[B]

You don't go in there. You never dive in a cave. You never dive in a cave.

[A]

I take that into consideration.

[B]

All right, before we wrap this up, anything else you want to show us?

[A]

All right, one more site. Chisnery the C H I S. Which one?

[C]

There's four videos.

[A]

Oh, let's just do the drone footage. And then inside tombs. So this place, it. I had no idea. Places like this, the. It's just me and my guide. He's. Dude, the people I met on this. It's just by happenstance. He's the president of the community there, the little Campesino. And took 12 hours out of his day to walk me through this place.

[B]

That's cool. That's another build it and they will come thing, right?

[A]

It really is.

[B]

Yeah. You just go out there and you'll find the right people. Or they kill your dog. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so this, this like I. Oh.

[B]

The paint's still on it.

[A]

It's actually not paint. It's. It's. It's mud. It's different colored mud. That's what he said. So now we're gonna go now in that. In that next video, we're gonna walk.

[B]

Whoa. Skulls.

[C]

The sky people. Do you know?

[A]

No, it. The Chachapoyas. The Chachapoyas were much further north. You see that skull? You see that skull, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is in the Cusco region. Wow.

[B]

What the fuck, dude?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Why are all these dead people in that hole? Whoa. What's going on in there?

[A]

These were the. Where they would bury their deceased.

[B]

They just chuck them in a hole?

[A]

No, no, they were. They weren't like that. They were.

[B]

So this is all just.

[A]

This is looting. This is all looting.

[B]

That rope and skulls are everywhere. This is crazy.

[A]

It's wild.

[B]

It's like a horror movie. This is like the beginning of a horror movie before it gets dark out, right? The guys, these archaeologists, it's probably you're out there in the movie. You bring a girl with.

[C]

You have to leave this place before.

[B]

The sun goes Down a hundred thousand percent, bro. You're gonna hear voices, you're gonna hear dead languages.

[A]

Yeah. No camping in the. No camping in the valley.

[B]

You have to be a gangster to take a nap in there.

[C]

Ghost hunters should definitely go there. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I'll get Sam and Colby to go down there then. I bet they won't do it. That's real.

[A]

This is all from looting.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So they just dug these people up, Stole whatever? Yeah. That's a spine. Yeah, man. God, there's so many bones.

[A]

It's crazy, man.

[B]

That's nuts. Well, Raul, I'm happy. I'm so happy that you made that decision a couple years ago to just follow this passion. And the content that you put out is really incredible. And the fact you've been able to. To find these sites that are heretofore undocumented, it's. It's really amazing, man. It's. It's amazing. I'm happy you're doing it, and I really enjoyed having you on. And for everybody who wants to watch, it's Pillars of the past. It's on YouTube. Do you put videos up on X as well?

[A]

I do. I. I've started putting videos up on X and, you know, my website's going to be up and running soon. It's going to be a place if, you know, if you find places and want to put it on a map and, you know, if Jamie wants to comment on it, then he can comment on the pin you put. I'm trying to build something because people send me stuff all the time.

[B]

Right. Have some sort of a thriving community of people that are interested in the same thing.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Well, there's a. There's an interest for this stuff.

[A]

Now.

[B]

I really credit Graham. Graham Hancock, I think, because he was the real pioneer of this when people just thought he was a loon. I remember people would make fun of me for reading his book in the late 90s. They make fun of me like, what are you reading this bullshit from? Why don't you go to a real history class? Like, that's not fun. No, this is fun. This is fun. It's fun to think that we don't know what happened, but that something happened.

[A]

And Graham puts in the work. I mean. I mean, you just look at the citation section he puts in the work.

[B]

Of course, yeah, he's an amazing human, you know, which is why they have to lie to discredit him. But, you know, when he put that material out and then I think the Netflix show really started opening up the gates to people Exploring this stuff more and just being fascinated by. And then seeking out content like yours. And, you know, and there's. We're really fortunate now. There's quite a few really good shows that are on YouTube that document this kind of stuff. And it's. These are real mysteries. There's real mysteries when it comes to human history. And in my. To me, it's one of the most fascinating things. I love it. So I thank you so much for doing what you do and get out there again and let's come back and do another one of these.

[A]

I would be happy to. And just. Just a few plugs. I'll be speaking at it because of all this, which is just amazing. I still feel like everything's in its infancy. So I'm humbled by the opportunities that keep presenting themselves. But like the Quest for Ancient Civilizations conference in Sedona and then it's actually.

[B]

Going to be in Sedona.

[A]

It's going to be here in Austin.

[B]

Too, in two kooky places.

[A]

ACL Live, I think is.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. It's an amazing venue. That's going to be in October. And then I'm doing a tour with Mike Collins from Wandering Wolf in the Yucatan and with Hugh Newman. We're doing a.

[B]

Let me ask you about that. What do you think about that sage wall? Because he's the guy that. That goes over the sage. You think it's a natural formation?

[A]

I think it's more likely more like. The way I operate is I tend to remain skeptical. I would like multiple pieces of evidence.

[B]

There's also similar things nearby that aren't as spectacular that are natural, right?

[A]

I believe so, yes.

[B]

And the. Yeah, there's something about the geology of the area.

[A]

And I found places like that in Peru as well. I mean, I'm waiting for. They've done lidar studies of that stuff. For me just to have one wall, I personally need more than just that. And I mean, I found some stuff like that in Peru. And I'm very hesitant to say this is. Megalithic architecture needs more study for people.

[B]

That are interested in. Just to let you know, there's a lot of AI images online. Online. And when you go to look for the sage wall, sometimes you're confronted with ones like, oh my God, that for sure is man made. But then it's not a real image. Someone's created an image or doctored the image to make it look a little bit more man made.

[A]

I will say. I mean, Mike Collins has done a ton of work on it. So if you want to like see the original footage. It's on his channel.

[B]

Very, very interesting foot. I mean, I go back and forth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean that's depending upon how old it is. So that's the thing. Like if you're talking about something that's 30,000 years old, maybe that's all that's left.

[A]

I forget he was saying they found that it goes a lot deeper than it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Something like that. So it's like for me, more interesting, which makes it more interesting. And I'm like, I just, I like keep driving, like, let's see. Keep figuring it out.

[B]

Texas too.

[C]

That I haven't found a good answer for.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard of that. Yeah.

[B]

200 to 400,000 year old wall.

[C]

That's. I think a guy in 1925 claimed that and probably just got people to pay attention and come visit. But that I don't. I don't have a good answer that I've come across on what it is or how old it is.

[B]

Go to that one below to the right of your cursor.

[C]

Right here.

[B]

To the right of it. Right there. Yeah. Look at that. Huh. I will say though, that could be natural formation. They.

[A]

I mean the Earth. The earth does a lot of weird things.

[B]

Yeah. You know, that's not, not. That's not convincing to me. No. Can I put it back up again though? I. But I'm aware of it. I'm just like, I'm looking at that extraterrestrial. Shut the up. Extraterrestrials do a way better job. They might have built the pyramids. They didn't build this out of here. It was shitty.

[A]

Stones. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Got non union guys came in, I'll do the job for cheap.

[A]

Well, they, they got their laser beams like.

[B]

Yeah. All right. Oh, wait a minute. That looks real.

[C]

I think that's the guy found when they found it.

[B]

Oh, that looks like a wall.

[C]

But this also. I've seen four versions of this picture and one's in color.

[A]

Dude, it's so hard nowadays to like. You got to put in some work to find the truth.

[B]

Yeah, that was. That's. That is weird. But that doesn't look real. That looks like it's just the strata. Well, but it's not consistent all the way to. What the do I know again, I.

[C]

Don'T even know what we're looking at.

[B]

Who knows?

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's here in Texas, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe we'll go one day. Pillars of the past. YouTube. Awesome. Thank you. Really appreciate you there. Was a lot of fun today.

[C]

I really enjoyed it.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[B]

Thank you. All right, bye, everybody.