Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience – JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

Release Date: April 16, 2025

In episode #166 of "The Joe Rogan Experience," host Joe Rogan engages in an in-depth conversation with UFC Lightweight Champion Ilia Topuria. The discussion delves into Ilia's transition to the lightweight division, the controversial practice of weight cutting in MMA, his journey to becoming a UFC champion, training methodologies, and his perspectives on various fighters and the evolution of mixed martial arts. The episode is punctuated with insightful quotes, highlighting the challenges and philosophies that shape Ilia Topuria’s career.

1. Transition to Lightweight Division

Weight Cutting Challenges

The episode opens with Ilia Topuria discussing his shift from the featherweight (145 lbs) to the lightweight (155 lbs) division. Joe Rogan expresses concern over the extreme weight cuts fighters endure, questioning the sustainability and health implications.

• Joe Rogan [00:26]: "What are you walking around at? Like, what do you walk around that when you were fighting at 145?"

• Ilia Topuria [00:35]: "I walk around 80. 82."

Ilia explains the grueling process of losing 25-30 pounds to meet the featherweight limit, emphasizing the toll it takes on his training and enjoyment of the sport.

• Ilia Topuria [00:51]: "That was the hardest part of my training of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple of fights that I had..."

Desire for Better Health and Performance

Ilia expresses a yearning to cease the extreme weight cuts to focus on becoming a world champion in a healthier weight class.

• Ilia Topuria [01:24]: "My dream is to become a world champion. I want to end up this chapter that I have that I started in 145, and now it's time to..."

Critique of Current Weight Class System

Joe Rogan voices his frustration with the existing weight classes, advocating for their expansion and the elimination of weight cutting.

• Joe Rogan [02:44]: "I think that they should have more weight classes because the weight class gaps are just too large."

• Ilia Topuria [03:28]: "Yeah, I think that's realistic. That makes sense."

2. Ilia Topuria’s Journey to UFC

Early Beginnings and Martial Arts Foundations

Ilia shares his martial arts journey, starting from judo at the age of four, progressing to Greco-Roman wrestling, and eventually discovering mixed martial arts (MMA) upon moving to Spain at 15.

• Ilia Topuria [07:30]: "With four years old. My dad put me with my brother in judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept practicing with the Greco Roman wrestling..."

He recounts stumbling upon a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) gym by chance, which ignited his passion for MMA.

• Ilia Topuria [08:07]: "So we went to Spain and we wanted to keep with the same discipline... we went to the gym and I felt in love since the first second."

Path to Professional MMA and UFC

Ilia discusses his transition from amateur to professional MMA, the scarcity of fights in Spain, and the necessity to travel across Europe to secure professional bouts. This persistence eventually led him to the UFC.

• Ilia Topuria [13:03]: "I made three fights in amateur, and then I started with a professional game."

Becoming the First UFC Champion from Spain

Highlighting his pioneering role, Ilia emphasizes being the first Spanish fighter to reach the UFC's top ranks and clinch a world title, paving the way for future Spanish MMA athletes.

• Ilia Topuria [12:31]: "So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain? Yeah, there was amateur mma."

3. Perspectives on MMA Weight Classes and Competition

Elimination of Weight Cutting

Both Joe and Ilia advocate for abolishing weight cutting, arguing it compromises fighters' health and performance. They propose alternative solutions, such as expanding weight classes and implementing stricter regulations on fighters' walk-around weights.

• Ilia Topuria [02:57]: "I would do something with it, with the drug test. Like, if I go to your home to make the drug test..."

Advantages and Disadvantages of Weight Classes

Ilia points out that even moving up a weight class doesn’t eliminate disparities, as fighters in higher divisions often maintain large disparities in natural weights.

• Ilia Topuria [02:18]: "How much do you think he walks around?"

• Joe Rogan [02:44]: "Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes..."

Health Risks Associated with Weight Cutting

Ilia underscores the severe health risks that fighters face due to extreme weight cuts, comparing it to starving a dog for twenty days and then suddenly providing food.

• Ilia Topuria [04:42]: "But at the same time, the way cut takes something out from you that's crazy."

4. Critique of Current UFC Practices

Referee Decisions and Fight Stoppages

The conversation shifts to the role of referees and the controversial decisions that can drastically alter fight outcomes. Both Ilia and Joe express dissatisfaction with stoppages that prevent fighters from fully executing their techniques.

• Joe Rogan [117:07]: "This drives me nuts. This is one of the reasons why I hate when they separate fighters."

• Ilia Topuria [119:48]: "It was terrible. Yeah, yeah, there's bad stuff..."

Judging and Athlete Safety

They criticize the lack of qualified judges with MMA experience, leading to inconsistent and sometimes uninformed scoring of fights.

• Joe Rogan [120:28]: "Some judges just aren't qualified. Right. They don't have a martial arts experience..."

Promotion and Matchmaking Issues

Ilia laments the UFC’s matchmaking and scheduling decisions, which often favor marketability over competitive matchups, hindering the development of truly elite fighters.

• Ilia Topuria [59:52]: "But I do think that he's on a resurgence. I think, you know, he had a skid for a while and now he's rebuilding himself and he's on a resurgence."

5. Training, Technique, and Mindset

Training Regimen and Discipline

Ilia elaborates on his rigorous training camp, emphasizing the importance of starting weight cuts early and adhering to strict diets to ensure peak physical condition without harmful dehydration.

• Ilia Topuria [82:10]: "I'm on like very strict diet and I have only one cheat meal a week..."

Holistic Approach to MMA

He advocates for a well-rounded skill set, training each discipline separately to avoid stagnation and to enhance versatility in the octagon.

• Ilia Topuria [92:18]: "So outside the training camp, I try to develop my skills in every discipline..."

Mental Fortitude and Self-Development

Ilia highlights the significance of mental strength, continuous self-improvement, and a champion's mindset. He shares insights into his personal development practices, including reading self-development books and preparing for life beyond fighting.

• Ilia Topuria [53:04]: "I read a lot of books. I try to read at least 30 minutes a day."

• Joe Rogan [142:14]: "Everything in life you get step by step. The slowest, the fastest, Way to get where you want to be."

Passion and Authenticity in Fighting

Both Ilia and Joe stress the importance of genuine passion and authenticity in the sport, cautioning against superficial motivations like fame and wealth.

• Ilia Topuria [69:47]: "This is who we are."

• Joe Rogan [145:56]: "Success comes from not worrying about money. Success doesn't come from making a lot of money."

6. Discussions on Notable Fighters and MMA Evolution

Comparisons with Other Champions

Ilia and Joe compare Ilia’s fighting style and achievements with other notable fighters like Alex Pereira, Daniel Cormier, and Charles Oliveira, highlighting the diverse approaches to becoming a champion.

• Ilia Topuria [115:00]: "But when you look at it, he could have been back in the gym, had a fight scheduled..."

• Joe Rogan [96:43]: "Ilia, like the Jai Herbert fight."

Evolution of Fighting Techniques

They discuss the evolution of fighting techniques in MMA, such as the adoption of calf kicks and the blending of various martial arts disciplines to create more balanced and technically proficient fighters.

• Ilia Topuria [100:28]: "But it comes from Muay Thai. It comes from kickboxing."

• Joe Rogan [94:02]: "I mean, there's some merit with trying to use those injuries..."

Influence of Early UFC Promotions

Reflecting on the history of UFC, Joe reminisces about the early days when fighters like Chuck Liddell and Rampage Jackson were pivotal in popularizing the sport through their charismatic personalities and fighting prowess.

• Joe Rogan [124:10]: "And then when Rampage KO'd him, you know, he became the man and, you know..."

Critique of Current Fighter Selection

Ilia criticizes the current state of fighter selection and the reliance on marketable personalities over technical skill, arguing for a focus on developing truly skilled fighters.

• Ilia Topuria [124:21]: "Look, the guy developed a spinning back kick at 36. Did you have a spinning back kick his whole career and all of a sudden knocks out Stipe with a spinning back kick for the heavyweight title at 36, 37 years old. That's crazy."

7. Future Plans and Retirement

Ambitions Beyond UFC

Ilia shares his aspirations beyond fighting, including his involvement in promoting MMA through his own promotion, “Way of the Warrior,” aiming to provide a platform for elite fighters worldwide.

• Ilia Topuria [56:14]: "I have a promotion in Spain right now. MMA promotion."

Retirement Considerations

He discusses his flexible plans for retirement, indicating he will continue fighting as long as he enjoys it, with no fixed retirement age in mind.

• Ilia Topuria [54:48]: "Till I enjoy. Till I enjoy. I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow."

Desire to Defend and Hold Titles

Ilia emphasizes his commitment to defending his title in the lightweight division, expressing frustration over potential delays or avoidances in matchmaking.

• Ilia Topuria [60:32]: "I wouldn't fight for a number one contender."

• Ilia Topuria [60:27]: "I want to fight him. If they don't give me that fight, I'd sit on the sidelines."

8. Insights on MMA’s Impact and Philosophy

MMA as High-Level Problem Solving

Both Ilia and Joe perceive MMA not merely as a sport of violence but as a complex discipline requiring strategic thinking, technical proficiency, and mental resilience.

• Ilia Topuria [146:14]: "I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular, as high level problem solving with dire physical consequences."

Critique of Violence in Fighting Sports

They distinguish between technical MMA and more simplistic, violent combat sports like slap fighting, advocating for MMA’s depth and skill requirements.

• Ilia Topuria [143:56]: "But I love that. Yeah. Most of the people before, they used to see fighting as something very violent in, in Spain, they hate it."

Influence of Mental and Emotional Health

Ilia touches upon the mental struggles fighters face, including the emotional burden of knocking opponents out and the importance of mental health and discipline in maintaining peak performance.

• Ilia Topuria [75:14]: "They put the camera on him on the last pay per view and he looked like he was so high."

Conclusion

The conversation between Joe Rogan and Ilia Topuria offers a comprehensive exploration of the multifaceted world of MMA. From the physical and psychological demands of weight cutting to the strategic intricacies of fight preparation and the evolving landscape of the UFC, the episode sheds light on both the personal and systemic challenges fighters face. Ilia's insights provide a window into the dedication, mindset, and innovations required to excel in modern MMA, while also critiquing the industry's practices regarding weight classes, fight officiating, and fighter development. The dialogue underscores the importance of passion, continuous self-improvement, and a holistic approach to both athletic and personal growth, making this episode a valuable listen for MMA enthusiasts and those interested in the sport's deeper dimensions.

Notable Quotes:

• Ilia Topuria [00:35]: "I walk around 80. 82."

• Ilia Topuria [00:51]: "That was the hardest part of my training of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple of fights that I had..."

• Joe Rogan [02:44]: "I think that they should have more weight classes because the weight class gaps are just too large."

• Ilia Topuria [04:42]: "But at the same time, the way cut takes something out from you that's crazy."

• Ilia Topuria [53:04]: "I read a lot of books. I try to read at least 30 minutes a day."

• Ilia Topuria [92:18]: "So outside the training camp, I try to develop my skills in every discipline..."

• Joe Rogan [142:14]: "Everything in life you get step by step. The slowest, the fastest, Way to get where you want to be."

• Ilia Topuria [146:14]: "I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular, as high level problem solving with dire physical consequences."

This summary captures the essence of the extensive dialogue between Joe Rogan and Ilia Topuria, highlighting their shared concerns, individual experiences, and forward-looking visions for the sport of MMA.