JRE MMA Show #167 with Cory Sandhagen

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #167 with Daniel Cormier

Release Date: June 26, 2025
Duration: Approximately 2 hours and 42 minutes
Participants:

• Joe Rogan – Host
• Daniel Cormier – Guest (Note: Although the episode title mentions Cory Sandhagen, the transcript features a discussion between Joe Rogan and Daniel Cormier.)

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with Joe Rogan welcoming former UFC champion Daniel Cormier. They briefly touch upon various topics such as golf addiction among fighters and Daniel’s insights into the evolving landscape of MMA training and competition.

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Golf Addiction Among Fighters

Timestamp: 00:15 – 02:08

• Discussion Points:

  • Gage's Golf Addiction: Joe and Daniel discuss how Gage, a fellow fighter, has become heavily addicted to golf, dedicating an immense amount of time to the sport.
  • Fanatics Fest Success: Daniel recounts Gage's participation in Fanatics Fest, likening it to Comic-Con for athletes. Gage excelled by focusing on golf, winning substantial rewards, including a Ferrari.
  • Impact on Addiction: The success in golf seemingly reinforces Gage's addictive behavior, showcasing his dedication and single-minded focus.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Daniel Cormier: "So you're saying Gage is fully hooked?" [00:25]
  • Joe Rogan: "He makes the best fucking MMA gloves that have ever been made." [02:08]

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Innovations in MMA Equipment: Trevor's MMA Gloves

Timestamp: 02:08 – 05:55

• Discussion Points:

  • Trevor Gaethje’s Gloves: Joe praises Trevor Gaethje for creating superior MMA gloves, emphasizing their design improvements in foam quality, shape, and hand protection.
  • UFC’s Decision: They lament the UFC’s choice not to adopt or license Trevor’s gloves, critiquing the decision for prioritizing other factors over athlete safety and performance.
  • Personal Experience: Daniel shares his positive experience with the new gloves, highlighting their perfect fit for his thinner hands compared to the old gloves, which were better suited for fighters with larger hands.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Joe Rogan: "I think he took." [02:21]
  • Daniel Cormier: "Trevor's one of those guys where I'm kind of similar, too." [02:39]

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Grappling vs. Striking: Understanding the Nuances

Timestamp: 10:20 – 19:43

• Discussion Points:

  • Grappling Complexity: Daniel explains the intricacies of grappling, noting that it's a highly proprioceptive and nuanced aspect of MMA, often underappreciated by casual fans.
  • Judging in MMA: They delve into the challenges of scoring grappling exchanges, criticizing the current 10-point must system for not adequately capturing the subtle aspects of grappling.
  • Proposed Scoring Reforms: Joe suggests a more comprehensive scoring system that accounts for strikes, takedowns, and control, possibly involving more judges to reduce variability in decisions.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Daniel Cormier: "Grappling is really hard to understand unless you've done it." [10:20]
  • Joe Rogan: "I think the UFC should have a completely different scoring system." [13:12]

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Health Challenges and Staph Infections in MMA

Timestamp: 35:00 – 60:22

• Discussion Points:

  • Daniel’s Surgeries: Daniel recounts multiple surgeries, including knee and elbow issues, often stemming from staph infections, highlighting the severe health risks fighters face.
  • Impact on Training: The conversation emphasizes how infections can derail a fighter’s career, forcing extended periods of recovery and affecting performance.
  • Staph Infections in Fighters: Joe brings up notable cases like Ben Askren’s severe staph infection, underlining the dangers and potential life-threatening nature of such infections.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Daniel Cormier: "I've had a couple of surgeries, but it's super bad." [34:06]
  • Joe Rogan: "It's a scary thing because it fucking kills people." [42:17]

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Philosophies on Training, Competition, and Personal Growth

Timestamp: 61:05 – 99:34

• Discussion Points:

  • Training Intensity: Daniel discusses his approach to training, balancing intensity to maintain peak performance without burning out.
  • Weight Cutting Practices: They explore the dangers of extreme weight cutting, with Joe proposing additional weight classes to mitigate health risks and improve competition fairness.
  • Mental Resilience: The duo delves into the psychological aspects of fighting, including overcoming fear, managing ego, and the importance of mental preparedness.
  • Personal Development: Daniel shares his journey of self-discovery, including practices to separate from his ego and develop a more focused and resilient mindset.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Joe Rogan: "The more ripped you are, the easier it is to sweat too." [63:05]
  • Daniel Cormier: "I'm going to focus on just fighting and not letting my past losses affect my future fights." [71:11]

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Future of MMA and Technological Integration

Timestamp: 100:06 – 137:18

• Discussion Points:

  • AI and MMA: Joe and Daniel speculate on the integration of artificial intelligence and technology in MMA, discussing how advancements could revolutionize training and competition.
  • Quantum Computing and AI: They explore the potential of quantum computing merging with AI, envisioning scenarios where AI surpasses human intelligence and its implications for the future.
  • Transcending Human Limitations: The conversation touches on the philosophical aspects of merging with technology, raising questions about humanity’s evolution and the possible emergence of a collective consciousness or hive mind.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Joe Rogan: "I think it's gonna be one of two things... a freight train." [136:53]
  • Daniel Cormier: "If artificial superintelligence does become live, all belief systems are going to get thrown into the wood chipper." [143:23]

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Philosophical Reflections and Personal Beliefs

Timestamp: 137:06 – 156:12

• Discussion Points:

  • Hero’s Journey: Daniel shares his personal exploration of the hero’s journey and how it influenced his approach to fighting and personal growth.
  • Ego and Spirituality: They discuss the importance of overcoming ego, embracing humility, and the role of spirituality in achieving mental clarity and resilience.
  • World Peace and AI: The hosts muse on how transcending ego and integrating with AI could contribute to world peace and a higher state of existence.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Daniel Cormier: "Now I'm going to fight how I do and trust myself more." [69:03]
  • Joe Rogan: "Letting go of egos and embracing love is the answer." [121:13]

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Closing Thoughts and Future Fights

Timestamp: 156:12 – End

• Discussion Points:

  • Upcoming Fights: Daniel discusses his preparation for an upcoming fight against Merab, outlining his strategies and the importance of confidence and comprehensive skill development.
  • Cultural Impact of MMA: They reflect on how MMA serves as a globalizing force, bringing together diverse cultures and fostering a universal appreciation for martial arts.
  • Personal Motivations: Both share personal insights into their motivations, the sacrifices involved in professional fighting, and the continuous pursuit of excellence.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Joe Rogan: "You're one of the more exciting guys in the sport and one of the more interesting guys in the sport." [157:03]
  • Daniel Cormier: "Love of fighting isn't really love of anything; it's a mega commitment to something you want to achieve." [151:18]

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Conclusion

Joe Rogan and Daniel Cormier engage in a deep and multifaceted conversation covering the technical, personal, and philosophical aspects of MMA. They explore the challenges fighters face, both physically and mentally, and discuss the future of the sport in the context of technological advancements and global cultural integration. The episode offers listeners a comprehensive look into the life of a professional fighter, the intricacies of MMA, and the broader implications of human evolution and AI integration.

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Note: The transcript provided did not include Cory Sandhagen, but featured Daniel Cormier as the guest. This summary is based on the available transcript content.

Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast.

[Daniel Cormier]

Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience.

[Joe Rogan]

Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Good to see you, brother.

[Daniel Cormier]

What's happening?

[Joe Rogan]

We were talking about golf and Jamie, who's a full blown addict.

[Daniel Cormier]

What's up?

[Joe Rogan]

What's up?

[Daniel Cormier]

I feel like everyone is now.

[Joe Rogan]

So you're saying Gage is fully hooked?

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, fully hooked. It's crazy. He. Yeah, I don't know. Do you know what Fanatics Fest is?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Daniel Cormier]

So Fanatics Fest is. I was just at it on Sunday, but it's just like. It's like kind of like Comic Con but for athletes. And Gaethje got to do like the Fanatics game, which is like a celebrity thing where it's like 50 pro athletes do it. 50 normal people, and they compete in a bunch of sports or whatever. He said he won because he was good at golf. So the fucking guy won a Ferrari because he got second place. Tom Brady got first. He got a million dollars. And then like a normal, like, non professional athlete got third place. Got like 200k.

[Joe Rogan]

Whoa. He got a Ferrari?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, dude. Golf got him.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy shit.

[Daniel Cormier]

Golf got him this fucking Ferrari. I think he took.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy shit.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. So he's so. That kind of just enforced his addiction more than.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn. He's that good?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, he's pretty good. I mean, I don't know shit about golf, but from what I'm doing.

[Joe Rogan]

Daniel told me. D.C. told me that he started off and he was just kind of okay. But over the time between the Holloway fight and his fight with Fizziev, he didn't do anything but play golf for a year. He played like 260 days in a row. And he said his handicap just kept getting better and better and better and better. He said the next time he played him, he's like, holy shit. He's really good now.

[Daniel Cormier]

Sounds about right. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Makes sense, though. He's a psycho.

[Daniel Cormier]

He is a psycho.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he dedicated to something and he's single. He's gonna. Yeah, he's gonna excel. If that guy gets his mind on something, he's gonna excel.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, he's a. He's a unique dude, for sure. I really liked. Because obviously, you know, I started working with not too long ago. I really enjoyed getting to know, like, that crew like Trevor Gaethje.

[Joe Rogan]

Trevor's a unique guy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, he. Yeah, all of those guys are pretty unique in their own way.

[Joe Rogan]

He makes the best fucking MMA gloves that have ever been made. And the UFC should have bought them out a long time ago. I think he wanted some crazy Amount of money or something. I think it was, like, some nutty deal. Unfortunate.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

You know?

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

They should have just licensed it. They should have just made some sort of a deal. Like, you will sell the gloves. You make the money.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's just get the athletes the best gloves bought. They're so much better.

[Daniel Cormier]

They're way better. Yeah. The foam in them is really good.

[Joe Rogan]

The shape is better. The protection of your hands is better.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Trevor's one of those guys where I'm kind of similar, too. Like, most things aren't stimulating enough. Like, TV kind of playing on my phone isn't really super stimulating to me. So, like, he's always, like, doing something, so he's always, like, making shit. But he'd be. When I would go into Onyx, he'd just be in the back, like, with this smile, like, working on the gloves, like, every single morning that he's there. And the style that they have is real cool. People keep asking me when they're gonna come out with them, and I think he's getting pretty close.

[Joe Rogan]

So I just really wish that him and the UFC could make a deal.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know, because they try.

[Joe Rogan]

They spent so much time and money to develop those new gloves, and then they threw them out.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I hate that, too. I liked the new ones.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you?

[Daniel Cormier]

I have really thin. Like, my hands aren't massive like some of these guys. The old ones are better for, like, if you have, like, a really thick hand. The old ones are way better. But I have a thin hand, dude, and those things used to fit me, like, perfectly. Because the old ones, when you. When I would make a fist, they would stick out, like, this much. But the new ones, they would be, like, perfect. So I can make a fist and not have this, like, really awkward big space right there.

[Joe Rogan]

But what is the. What's the issue with the new gloves? Like, what did they not like about them?

[Daniel Cormier]

I honestly don't know. I think some people were just complaining, probably because they were just guys with thicker hands, because that's what it would come down to. There was no other reason that it was. I mean, the leather was different and stuff, but, I mean, how important is that?

[Joe Rogan]

It can't be that important. And I think the whole idea was it was easier to close your hand, so it was gonna eliminate some of the eye pokes.

[Daniel Cormier]

They were a little bit curved. But honestly, I mean, maybe. I mean, even if you bring it down, like, 10 percentages, I guess that's saving 10% of people's eyes, but. Yeah, But I Mean, honestly, I don't think it was, like, significant enough to be like, oh, no one's gonna poke me in the eyes when they're wearing.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think the Whitman gloves would cover that because they're much more curved.

[Daniel Cormier]

Those ones were curved?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, your hand is in a permanent position like this. Yeah. So for you to do that, it's an effort.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which. When do you do that? You only do that when you're blocking things or, you know, maybe, you know, when you're sliding an arm under, like, you get a choke or something like that. But I don't think they're specific. Significantly bulkier?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not. I'm not too sure. Honestly. I don't really recall where. I think that that was a while ago when they were doing all that, so I kind of don't recall. Super. What, the curved ones. How impactful it would have been on grappling.

[Joe Rogan]

I think the idea of the new gloves was that there weren't as many knockouts, which also doesn't totally make sense.

[Daniel Cormier]

That doesn't make any sense.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Daniel Cormier]

They. They probably ran a number that was from, like, all of the years of the ufc, and then maybe just when they started using the new ones instead of, like, just last year, how many knockouts?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think they would do that. No, no, I think. But there were a lot of people complaining, said that they weren't hard. As hard as the old gloves.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, I should have brought you some. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, I need some of his. And I was like, these are the best gloves ever.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Just fucking a, man. Work it out.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know. They're good to train into. Like. Like, you can actually feel like you could hit the person and not be like, sorry, you know, because that's a pain in the ass. When you always have to. When you get, like, a stiff pair of gloves and then you have to hit someone and you're just like, Right. So, I mean, I know that, but with these ones, you can fire away.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That. How important is that? It's like having training partners that are. That are conscientious and that aren't going to blast you. Like, the. The miles that guys take off of the clock when they're training is so big.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it's big. I think. I don't. I mean, we spar. I spar pretty hard still. I know that, like, not a lot of people are crazy about that, but.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't get hit a lot, though.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's true. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The thing is you're slick.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, that's like.

[Joe Rogan]

For a guy who's just like a face first, you know?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, that's, there's, there's styles that enhance longevity and you have a style that enhances longevity because not only do you not get hit a lot, but you're also like, you're a puzzle. You know, you're not. It's not like, oh, here he comes. It's like, what's going on here? You know, there's a lot of thinking that a guy has to do when they're interacting. You know, you have so much. So many faints and so many stance switches.

[Daniel Cormier]

Definitely.

[Joe Rogan]

It's such a smart style, man. I love watching you fight because it's like, it's so you can see that the fighter, if they don't. And by the way, they're probably not used to training with somebody like you because there's not a lot of guys like you. You could see how there's all these adjustments that they have to make on the fly. That makes you think.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I mean, I always really looked up to all of the defensive guys that I would watch. Like, I know that in boxing, defensive, just winning the defensive battle is a big piece in boxing and the judges almost even score a little bit for it. But in mma, it's just like only offense scores. So that's not really the way that I grew up thinking was good martial arts. Really. Because some of my favorite guys were Mayweather, Pernell, Whitaker, Nanito, Daenery, like all of these really awesome, like movers that did a phenomenal job at protecting themselves. But now, man, people, I feel like even more so now people want more blood and more offense. The casuals. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That shit drives me nice me nuts.

[Daniel Cormier]

It does, man.

[Joe Rogan]

It just drives me nuts. And, and catering to the casuals, I know off, like whenever someone like booze and then they separate people or stand people up, I go crazy. What are you doing? I know the crowd. This episode is brought to you by Carnivore Snacks. You know I'm all about authentic fuel. And Carnivore Snacks delivers. Made with just two ingredients. Pure meat and Redmond real salt. It isn't your typical jerky. Full of additives or heavy marinades. You get exactly what you pay for. Nutrient dense 100gr grass fed beef that tastes real. These aren't cheap, tough cuts like you might expect. Carnivore Snacks uses prize selections like rib eye and New York strip. Offering a unique texture that's a perfect blend of slight chew and an airy crisp. Each five ounce bag begins with nearly a full pound of meat before drying. Make it robust enough to serve as a full meal or as just a snack. I bring them to the UFC all the time. It's what I eat when I'm there, and I'm stuck sitting at the desk for six hours. And I bring them for Daniel Cormier, too. We both love them. Plus, Carnivore Snacks is a Pro America brand supporting US Farmers who practice regenerative agriculture, a method that restores soil nutrients and boosts ecosystems. And that means better meat for you, better care for the animals, and better land stewardship. Visit www.civoresnacks.com that snacks with an X To pick up your favorite cuts of meat today and use the code ROGAN for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Tommy John. Support and softness every day. Tommy John's a new sponsor for us, and I got to tell you guys about their incredible underwear. I've been trying out Tommy John's breathable, lightweight fabrics. Super happy with the quality. No sweat, no chafe, just comfort. And they look so good. So if you've been suffering in silence, you know, making awkward adjustments, Tommy John's gonna solve all that for you. You're gonna love them. In fact, once you try Tommy John's, you'll stick with them because they won't get stuck to you. Tommy John sold over 30 million pairs. Millions of guys are way more comfortable than you are right now, and you got to change that. You're covered with Tommy John's risk free guarantee. So if it's not the best pair you've ever worn, money back, no questions asked. The two Joe Rogan experienced listeners right now get 25% off your first order at TommyJohn.com Rogan 25% off risk free at TommyJohn.com Rogan I think grappling is.

[Daniel Cormier]

Really hard to understand unless you've done it. Like, striking is easy to understand. Like, okay, that guy hit the shit out of that guy more than the other guy hit him, right? Grappling is like. It's a whole. It's like super proprioceptive, you know, Like a lot of what's going on in grappling isn't. It's like hidden to the eye, you know what I mean? It's, where am I sitting, my weight, where am I doing this? And. And yeah, so it kind of just. People just don't think it's cool. But when you understand grappling like it's amazing to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

You know, like a marab, for example, who's obviously a guy that I watch a ton. It's amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, he does such a good job with, like, the little nuance y things in wrestling. That's just like.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that.

[Daniel Cormier]

But it's hard to appreciate unless you really understand it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's hard to judge, too.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a real problem because there's judges that don't train and never have trained, which is, to me, fucking crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

That's like judging a Chinese spelling bee and you don't speak Chinese. Who knows who's winning here?

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

They don't understand that. They understand when someone's on top. Oh, he's on top.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

But, you know, there's so many, like, near submission attempts that I think should count. Like. Like, I always go to the Oliveira Armand Serukian fight because I think Oliveira won that fight because Oliveira came close to finishing him twice and Sarukian stayed top and he had a lot of control and it was a very close fight. But I think those moments where a guy is like at 9, you know, if 10 is checkmate, he's at 9 twice. That's big man. Yeah, that. You don't want to be there. That guy got you there. He's got a locked in triangle. Yeah, you got out of it. But still, that. That's big man. That should count. And damage leading up to a KO or that doesn't lead to a KO is very significant in the scorecards. But a submission that doesn't lead up to a submission doesn't count. And I don't understand that. You can't just count damage. You have to count, like, near falls or near near subs.

[Daniel Cormier]

I agree. Yeah. I mean, if you. If you want to take for example, too, like, even like a me and a TJ fight, like, TJ was limping out of that cage and I was kind of, you know, like, oh, cool. You know, and I don't think that that should count for everything, but like, you're saying, like, the reason that he was limping out of that cage is because I popped his knee really bad, you know, like, he had to spend the next 18 months making his knee better so that he could fight again. And I was able to fight, you know, pretty shortly afterwards. So, yeah, there's got to be something to that. Like, if you pop someone's shit really bad, it should count just as much as a knockdown or something like that. What do you think about the idea of like 10, eight rounds for like things that are known. Not just like, okay, this person won by a mile, but it's like in kickboxing they do if you get knocked down in a round, it's automatically a 10, 8 round. You like that for MMA or no?

[Joe Rogan]

I do, but if a guy is tuning you up for like the entire round and you clip him and drop him and he gets back up and he's still okay, I don't think that's a 10, 8 round. I think, I think MMA should be a completely different scoring system than a 10 point must system. Because I think the 10, we just stole this boxing system, which is a great system for boxing because you only have two weapons and you only have your hands. You don't even have elbows. Right. So think about all the different factors in MMA and we're limited to 10 points. To me, that seems silly. I think it should probably be 10 points for each aspect of the sport. Like, okay, who, who landed more kicks, who landed more punches, who. And then calculate all that shit up together. You know, who had more takedowns, who, who landed damage from the top at all. It should be a comprehensive system and I think there should be more than three judges. You know when, you know when you have a split decision and like some of them are so crazy, you know, you see like a five round split decision and it's. They gave like four judges or three, two out of the three judges, rather give like three out of five rounds and the other person gives them the whole five rounds. Like, this is too much variability. There's too much weirdness to it. And if you're a fighter, especially in mma, because of the win bonus.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which also drives me crazy. I think you, if you had three more judges. So if you have sick judges, six judges would balance it out. Six good judges. So the ones that fuck up and make mistakes, they'll be canceled out by the better judges.

[Daniel Cormier]

We could do like a submission or knockout only league. That'd be pretty cool because then you definitely know who was winning that one.

[Joe Rogan]

What would you think about a no time limit?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, no, no time limit. Submission or knockout only.

[Joe Rogan]

That would be wild.

[Daniel Cormier]

That'd be pretty sick. Well, you could probably sanction that old school UFC. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, it's UFC 1.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. It wouldn't really pay off for me though. I need weight classes in order for me to fucking.

[Joe Rogan]

For my career. Yeah, weight classes, sure, but. But no time limit within the weight classes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, that'd be sweet.

[Joe Rogan]

That would be pretty. That'd be pretty wild. Yeah, that'd be pretty, you know. You know, like two guys are facing off each other, like, and they know, like, there's no rescue every five minutes.

[Daniel Cormier]

And you go into it knowing you're either getting knocked down or submitted or you're doing that to the other person.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that would be real. But again, the casuals would have a hard time with it because it would probably be a much more moderate pace or. Or.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, unless someone just tries to go for it right off the bat.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. And that could be a strategy.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure. I mean, it does work.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like there's so many fights. Where did you see the. The past? The Azerbaijan fight?

[Daniel Cormier]

I didn't watch those ones. No, I watched Curtis's fight and a guy named Mohammed's fight on my team, but no, I didn't watch the other ones.

[Joe Rogan]

It was. Who was it? Mota and the other guy from Azerbaijan. See if you can find his name. Salikov. F. I hadn't seen him fight before.

[Daniel Cormier]

What weight class was it?

[Joe Rogan]

I think it was 45. Yeah. No, it was lightweight. Yeah. Sadikov and Nicholas Mota. Nazim Sadikov and Nicholas Mota. Crazy fight, man. It was so good that Dana White gave him double bonuses.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, nice. Sweet.

[Joe Rogan]

But mota landed a 74, five punch combination. Like, I'm not kidding, man. He landed like. And then Sakov came back and stopped him.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, it was wild.

[Joe Rogan]

Like a wild fight. Like a fight like that where two guys just F and Moto, like, basically emptied out the tank. But Sakov had fantastic defense. Just kept covering and moving and just getting bombed on to the body into the head. But he kept. He looked like it was getting close to stop. He comes back and see Mo just taking these big deep breaths and whoo. It was wild.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, when that strategy works, it works. But when it doesn't.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

And some.

[Joe Rogan]

That's the problem. The blitz sprint and very few guys. You know, we were talking about Gaichi and golf and I was saying that I'm scared of golf and you know, you're like, I don't have time for golf. There's the thing that happens with golf is it takes so much time and it's so addictive that it's going to take away time from other stuff no matter what you do. And when you look at a guy like, I always point to marab because the day after he beat Sean, the first fight, DC went to his house to go talk to him and he was out running. The day after that's a guy who does not stop. And that extreme physicality and that extreme endurance because he is just constantly working. That means something. That counts. If you take months off, you take, you know, like. Like. This was the thing that I was thinking about with Jon Jones. Jon Jones said he needed six months to prepare for Aspinall if he's gonna fight Aspinall. So they were trying to make a deal, and then he decided to retire. But it's six months because he's not training, like, at all. He just doesn't train, like, in between fights. Just doesn't train.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which to me, he used to do that a lot when he was younger too, which is I always thought was crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

That is crazy to me. I always saw guys do that, like, when I was in my 20s and, like, I would watch these really big fighters just not train. Unless it was a training camp time. I'd be like, fuck that. I'm never being that way. I don't know, man, that's. That's like a really weird one to me. But I don't want to bash it too bad because I do know a lot of guys that do do that.

[Joe Rogan]

But look at John, greatest of all time. It's like, how did he do that?

[Daniel Cormier]

I really don't know. I don't know how that works. Like, I want it to make sense in my head that, like, the harder you work, the more shit you'll get from it, you know, which is, like, true to an extent. But then you have, like, these weird outlier guys that maybe have something more figured out than me that I don't have figured out or whatever. But, I mean, that to me, is like, completely unacceptable in my head. Like, I. I think that. I really hate when people say that they want to be something and then they don't do any of the actions to, like, actually do that thing that they're saying that they want to be, right. So I don't get to walk around being like, yeah, I'm gonna be a world champion. I want to be a world champ real bad, and then not do any of the fucking actions, you know? Right. Then I'm just a stupid person, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think John is just so talented that he could pull that off. Yeah, that's the outlier. It's like, he was just so good. He was so good. It just. He just. He could do it. He could. He could party and still guys up. Like what he said to Cormier at the press conference for the second fight, I beat you when I was on.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay. I know. I saw that video the other day.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Sometimes it can feel like you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders. And for guys especially, it can feel like you have to carry that burden on your own. There's a lot of stigma around men being the provider to keep it all together by themselves. But that's not good for you, your family, or anyone. Did you know that 6 million men suffer from depression every year in the US and it often goes undiagnosed because of these stigmas. Real strength isn't bottling things up inside, though. It's admitting to your faults and doing something to better yourself. So go talk to someone. A friend, your partner, family, a therapist. Therapy is an excellent tool everyone should utilize. It's a great way to learn more positive coping skills like how to manage stress and help you live a more balanced and fulfilling life. BetterHelp is a great place to start that conversation. Judging by the millions of Reviews and the 4 rating in the app store, it's helped many people across the globe. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, Better Help can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with better help, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com jre that's better. H E L p.com jre this is the thing. When guys are that talented, there's so much like they're playing with their food essentially. Until you know, like, like I always point to with John the first Gustafson fight, which by all accounts he didn't train.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. By all accounts barely trained for that fight. Barely trained. Just partying.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And beat Gustafson and pulled it off in the last rounds, which was really crazy. But then comes back in the second fight is like, okay, motherfucker, now we're trained. And just destroys him. Just runs right through him.

[Daniel Cormier]

Which God does he worship?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Daniel Cormier]

Right. And then start going to that church.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I think it's just talent, man. And it's also genetics. Like both of his brothers are super athletes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, he's just a phenomenal specimen. And then he's got a great mind for fighting. His, his, it's, you can't discount his in cage IQ because it's fucking phenomenal.

[Daniel Cormier]

I do think two people have different wired brains too. Where some people need like cool down time in order for them to. Yeah, I don't know, man. I really, I don't know how it works. I spent a Lot of time thinking about it. I don't. Yeah, I'm more on the other end where it's like I'm going to give every inch of myself to this thing, you know, in hopes that I get it one day. But then I know a lot of guys, man, a lot of guys that are really successful that are just like, nah, man, I need my like off time. That to me is really uncomfortable. But I kind of got a little bit. I don't like chilling, you know. Like me and my wife were just in Maui a couple weeks ago. It's like the first vacation for seven days I ever taken like since I was a kid probably.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you get stir crazy?

[Daniel Cormier]

I got a little stir crazy. I kind of liked it though. Like a piece of me liked just completely being like, oh, my home, my like life doesn't exist back there. So I liked it a little bit in that. But I didn't like the feeling of being completely like turning my nervous system off completely. That was like weird to me. I like being like a little stressed or having something going a little bit all the time. It kind of just makes me feel like alive or something. I don't know. But I didn't really like that feeling. I was kind of ready to come. I like didn't like that. I liked it too. It'd be like if I started playing golf and I was like, oh shit, this is fun. And then I gotta like do that more and more. I don't really want to get addicted to relaxing either.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the golf thing is a six hour plus thing.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's true too. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When you're gone, like Jamie, you know you're whack. Like Jamie's got a simulator out there, so he's whacking balls every day. It gets you, gets in your blood. But the thing about like relaxing. One thing that I do like about vacations is that at the end I'm ready to go to work. Like when I, when I'm done, when, when it's like day, if I'm on an eight day vacation, it's day seven. I'm like, I can't fucking wait to get back to work. I can't wait to get shit going.

[Daniel Cormier]

I don't get that. You know, when I was out there, I was like, I could stay here forever. I was like, fuck home. I was like, we can we afford this? I was like, let's just stay here.

[Joe Rogan]

Isn't that. It's a weird thing about momentum, right? Like when you're training really hard all the time, you have this like constant momentum in your head of improvement. You're like, you're. You're on the path, you're in the process, you know, and you're feeling that. And when that gets disrupted, when guys get injured and they have to come back, or they get sick and they have to come back, there's like, you gotta like, rebuild that momentum and get it going again. So it's like a part of your mind. You wake up, like, time to go.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with like the process of like having to kick back into camp, you know, And I do realize that it takes me about two weeks to get like, all right, this is my normal life again, you know, which is why I really like training camp and I really like fighting more than real life, is what I say. Just because it's like, organized, I know what I'm doing. I don't got to think about stuff. I'm not traveling. Places, people like traveling. I hate traveling. It makes me feel like my life is moving on fast forward, which I don't really like. I like feeling. I feel most alive when I'm in a routine and I have time to myself and I could sit and kind of reflect and all of that shit. But. But yeah, I.

[Joe Rogan]

What is the difference between your training, like regular training and then training once you get into camp? How much, like, what is a normal day when you're not in camp for you?

[Daniel Cormier]

It's all the exact same. I'm just less competitive when I'm outside of camp. And I won't if I'm like beat to shit, dead tired, I'll miss a practice. But that's really the only time that I'll miss practice in camp. I won't miss unless I have like a two week rule where if I'm like dragging really bad, I'll make myself go for another week and a half, two weeks, until I'm like, okay, I do actually need a rest, you know, and then. So I'll do that in camp. But yeah, I. But outside of camp is pretty much the exact same. I've been traveling a lot, which I really don't like doing just because again, like, I. I don't really feel like I'm alive. I feel like I'm like fast forwarding through a bunch of stuff. But it's been like, useful stuff, like seeing family and then like me and my wife going on our honeymoon or whatever. So it's like normal life shit that I guess I gotta check in and do every once in a while. But if it Were up to me, it would just be like training camp life all of the time. Just cause it's easier. It's way easier. It's fun, it's easy. I go to the gym, I do my hard workouts, I'm competitive as fuck. I get to get that out of me and then I just hang with my friends for an hour afterwards.

[Joe Rogan]

When you say you're less competitive, when you're just normal training, like, is that conscious? Like do you decide to be less competitive and why do you do that?

[Daniel Cormier]

I do that because I can't. I think that if I'm too competitive, I won't work on stuff. Like it. Like a lot of camp for me is getting better at stuff and then the last four weeks is figuring out how to win. It's not like I think that practicing winning is just as important as being able to practice a certain skill. So a lot of my camps will be developing those skills. But then like the last four or five weeks, it's just I need to focus on winning each round regardless of who it's against or whatever. I'm not like practicing a certain technique or doing anything like that. It's just win, win, win.

[Joe Rogan]

Just doing whatever it takes to win that round.

[Daniel Cormier]

Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Because that's an important skill to build.

[Joe Rogan]

And when you're less competitive, when you're just training and you're not in camp, you'll try things, you'll be a little more playful, try to like sort stuff, try new, new skills.

[Daniel Cormier]

And I'm definitely not sparring hard as fuck like I do in camp too. Like I won't do that outside of camp unless I got a guy that's been giving me of rounds in my camps and he has a fight coming up and then I'll like gear up to give him a good one, you know. But no outside camp comp, like just less competitive. I don't show up as early and get my mind right before. When I'm in camp, every single sparring session that I do, I try to put myself in the locker room while I'm warming up. I think that that's like. I've had a lot of success doing that. Just making my body make good decisions when I'm in a super elevated high intensity state is something you got to practice too. I definitely won't do that outside of camp because that's a lot of energy.

[Joe Rogan]

So you visualize the walkout, you visualize like stepping into the octagon, all that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Essentially it's not as so I don't do as much of I more so go off a feel a little bit more now where I'll be like, okay, I need to do this today because I know that I really don't want to do it. Or I'll be like, okay, this day for whatever reason I'm really distracted. I'll do a little bit more visualization, mindful stuff or whatever. Because every day is different in sparn as you know, where some days you're good to go right off of the bat and then other days you're dragging. It's those days that you're dragging that I make sure that I'm like those ones. I'll be like, okay, fucking visualize because your body doesn't want to do this right now. And I'll put myself in that state twice a week which is has helped a lot. A lot, a lot.

[Joe Rogan]

I know for a while you were organizing your whole camp, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you still doing that?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, I don't do that anymore. That has actually been like a super significant piece in one, my life getting a lot better and then two, I think that like it. I think it's going to transfer over really well into my next few fights. For a really long time for a lot of reasons I was like really micromanage over my own my stuff. I don't like when people do things for me. Like I kind of like live in a way where everything is my responsibility and if I fuck up, it was like on me regardless of what happens. Which is like a fine way to be. But also it's not like crazy realistic either. But that's just kind of the way that I am, just the way that I grew up. Like it was kind of like take care of me type of thing, you know, and if I'm messing stuff up, it's on me. So I was like that for a really long time. It was actually after the Umar fight where I realized how in the way I got of myself in that fight. How so overdoing it from insecurity a little bit over like that was my first camp with Trevor too. And Trevor's a phenomenal coach. I've known him for a lot of years. He has a lot of champions. There's no like, there's no reason to doubt any of what he has going on or my other coach, Carrington Banks or anyone really. But because I kind of have this mindset on life or did used to have this mindset on life where it was hey man, like manage everything, like make sure everyone's doing their work like, blah, blah, blah. Like, after that Umar fight I really got into, I was like, all right, fuck it, guys. Like, I messed that one up. I felt like because I was trying to be too micromanage over this thing, I started getting outside of myself. You guys take over. And the reason that I did that wasn't necessarily because I lost. It's because I'm coaching a couple professionals now, and coaching a professional is different than coaching an amateur. It feels like a lot more responsibility. And I realized what was happening when I would try to help these couple guys that I was trying to help is that they. They are too close to it. The same way that I'm sure you get too close to your art as well. Like, in comedy, you're too close to it sometimes where you don't really. You can't see things from a perspective that is, like, true and real because you're so locked into what it is that you're doing. I really big time realized that that was a thing in my other guys. So when I would try to help them and they'd be like, hey, man, like, I don't. Like, they'd kind of get a little bit argumentative. I'd be like, you could keep doing that, but I'm a thousand percent sure that I'm right about this, you know, but do your own thing. And I started to realize, like, oh, fuck, that's what I do all the time. Like, I gotta. I was like, fuck, dude, I gotta stop being argumentative and just shut the fuck up and listen if I really trust these guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Daniel Cormier]

And so I started doing that big time, man. And it made my. It changed so much stuff for me.

[Joe Rogan]

I forgot who you fought your last fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

I fought Figgy last.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Figgy blew his knee out. Yeah. So that's essentially the same position that you got in with TJ, right? Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

50, 50.

[Joe Rogan]

And what that. That's like, you're. So this is all Ryan hall stuff, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

And so you're putting him in a position where if he doesn't know what you're doing and he tries to get out of it, he's gonna blow his knee.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep. Essentially, I like 5050 a lot because, one, I get to learn it from the guy who essentially invented it and is the best at it in the world. The only guys that I feel like can beat me at 5050 are guys that train at 50 50. And so it's kind of like what it feels like. 5050 the position and just kind of leg locks in general. If you really know how to do them in mma, are a spot that you can pull people into and have them be completely lost because they have.

[Joe Rogan]

To think, what do I do now? And you're already moving.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's super niche, too. Like, understanding the position is super niche. It's like judo almost a little bit in wrestling, where it's like, okay, cool, if this guy's gonna just wrestle with me, great. But if this guy has good throws, that changes a lot of the way that I have to do things. I can pull people into these really niche spots, right, Where I know that I'm gonna win them. So 50. 50 is one of those. It's kind of like what Jiu jitsu used to be a little bit before people started to understand Jiu jitsu, But now people fully understand Jiu jitsu, so you don't really get to, like, catch people in guillotines whatever whatever. But 50, 50, and a lot of the leg locks and a lot of stuff that Ryan teaches me and does is so niche that, like, you would need an absolute expert to understand it. And I, like, get the fortune of having that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's awesome. He's so fucking smart, too. That dude is just like, his analysis of Jiu jitsu and the way he's broken down different positions, it's. It's really exciting to watch. Is he fighting? You know he's had, like, nine surgeries.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, he's had crazy, right? It's like, closer to a thousand, but. But. But, yeah, he. I mean, he's doing good. He says he wants to fight again. I hope that he does.

[Joe Rogan]

Why is he having all these surgeries? Like, what's going on?

[Daniel Cormier]

I think it's just one of those things where, like, you let one thing go, and then another thing breaks, and then another thing breaks, and you kind of, like, are taping yourself back together, and then one day you wake up and you're like, shit, I gotta, like, take care of this.

[Joe Rogan]

How many. What are the surgeries that he had?

[Daniel Cormier]

Um, I'm not sure specifically. You name it, he's probably had it.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, I've never heard of anybody having that many surgeries.

[Daniel Cormier]

There's a couple knee ones, a couple shoulder ones. Honestly, I quit asking after a certain point. But, yeah, I think that he's kind of coming back. Ryan, more than anything. I'm like a super conceptual thinker. Like, I don't really like details. Like, I don't remember names of stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

19. General anesthesia. First of all, that is so bad for you.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know that is really bad.

[Joe Rogan]

So bad for you to go into General 19. Can you go back up there? What it says there? It says tearing his ACL the following years and many surgeries. Jujitsu specialist wasn't out of the woods just yet. That is so crazy. Okay, so he had to fix a plantar plate. So that's his foot got. Got fallen on again. Had to have a tightrope surgery. The one that Pat Mahomes got and a lot of other people have had. I don't know what that one is. Do you know what that is? Tightrope surgery?

[Daniel Cormier]

Nope, no idea.

[Joe Rogan]

ACL got infected. Had to have a couple of septic. Septic arthritis. The tightrope is actually allergic to the hardware they put in me some. Oh my God. So you had to have that redone. Boy came to injuries, he said completely bulletproof for 15 years until his training camp for Toporia where he tore his hip right before the fight. Tightrope is used to stabilize ankle. Wow, that is crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

More than half the surgeries of ones where oops, we screwed up. Let's do that again. It's six elbow surgeries and five knee surgeries. Holy shit. Holy shit.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I don't like taking any type of medication ever. So that would probably really bother me having to be under that much. It would probably really fuck me up.

[Joe Rogan]

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[Daniel Cormier]

I know. It's kind of scary.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, it makes scary.

[Daniel Cormier]

I've only had a couple surgery. How many surgeries have you had? Like under the knife? Like, had to go under three knee.

[Joe Rogan]

Surgeries under the knife. I think those are the only general anesthesia ones that I've had.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's kind of. I get really. I've only had to do it for my elbow when I tore my tricep.

[Joe Rogan]

You tore that off the bone, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it was pretty up.

[Joe Rogan]

But you still won the fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

I did still win the fight. That one. That was like a whole fucking thing, though. I got bursitis in that elbow because I got a bunch of loose floating bones and shit in there. So then it just swelled up really bad. And every time I've gotten bursitis, I've gotten really bad staph infections in it. Yeah. Cuz I mean, you got to think it's just like sitting pooled.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Fluid in your body. And then when you're still in the gym training and it gets like, in your bloodstream or whatever, it just like. It's like a swamp. And then it just.

[Joe Rogan]

Wasn't that what happened to Ben Askren? Wasn't it a staph infection that turned into pneumonia?

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, really? I don't know. Is he doing okay? I never.

[Joe Rogan]

Not doing okay. He needs a lung transplant.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He had. I think they call it necrotic pneumonia. So essentially it was rotting holes in his lung tissue. And so they had to put him on a ventilator and apparently one of his lungs is just gone and they have to replace it, which is. That's so crazy because then you have to be on medication for your entire life because your body wants to reject the lung because it's not your lung. So you have to take these. Immunosuppressant. So now your immune system is severely suppressed because you have to take immunosuppressant drugs in order to have this. Like, I have a friend who had a heart transplant and he's all up because of it. You know, it's just like, you're always worried about getting sick because your immune system is very compromised.

[Daniel Cormier]

Damn, that's going to change his life.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God. I mean, he's still in a medically induced coma, I believe. I think he's.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's.

[Joe Rogan]

He's out of the coma now. Like, he looks at people and he can kind of talk a little bit. But, I mean, this is all going on for many, many weeks now. And I think what happened was he was feeling like. And he didn't know how bad it was, and he went to a bitcoin conference. You know, he traveled, and then it got real bad. And then he realized, oh, this is serious.

[Daniel Cormier]

So it was a staff kind of inside of his lung.

[Joe Rogan]

Can you see me find that? If it was. It was. It started with a staph infection.

[Daniel Cormier]

That sounds like it would really hurt. Staph infections by themselves hurt really bad. I couldn't imagine having it in your lungs where you're breathing into.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think enough people pay attention to staph. I mean, how many guys, like, fight and they're on antibiotics? It happens all the time. Like, when Merab fought Umar, apparently he had staph on his shin, and he was on antibiotics when he fought.

[Daniel Cormier]

So did the type of antibiotic that I was on. I forget the name of it, unfortunately. But the reason I tore my tricep was because that antibiotic made my ligaments super shitty, pretty much.

[Joe Rogan]

Which.

[Daniel Cormier]

Because, dude, like, I should never tear my tricep. I'm pretty sure it happened when he was Kimura in me, dude, that shouldn't happen. You know, like, maybe something else, but definitely not tear my tricep.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Daniel Cormier]

So that's when it happened. And then I was like, yo, what the fuck is that about? Like, that shouldn't happen. And then when I read into it a little bit, they told me that that specific antibiotic, it doesn't mess with your respiratory stuff, like, your conditioning as much, but it makes your ligaments just really not good.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's terrible.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know, I know.

[Joe Rogan]

And then you have to fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know. Last camp, I didn't get one. Dude, I was so happy I didn't get sick.

[Joe Rogan]

How many times have you had staph?

[Daniel Cormier]

Not too many times, but, man. So this time with my elbow against Font, I got it really bad. I was on one round of antibiotics for seven days or something, and then it came back immediately. So then I was on it for two more weeks, and then I got off it the week before the fight. So I was essentially on it for, like, a month, which. Which sucks. And then. And then against Umar, I got it really bad in my Knee, like, super bad, where I'm not a crazy anxious person, dude. But I finally got to, like, experience what it was like to have a panic attack because I was in Virginia training. Got it. I was like, something's up with my knee. It hurt really bad. Couldn't put weight on my leg. This was probably like, a month before the fight. Maybe. Maybe a little bit before that, five weeks or so. I got a really bad knee infection. I started taking the antibiotics, but they told me, like, hey, man, if this doesn't get better, like, if you start taking these antibiotics and tomorrow it's not better, we need you to cut it. Come in. We're gonna cut your knee open and clean it, because that's how they take care of it. And I was like, sure. I was like, I'm not coming back here, you know, Like, I'm gonna take these antibiotics because otherwise you can't fight. And then I can't fight. So, yeah, so that was a shitty situation, but just pretty much really bad. Maybe three times.

[Joe Rogan]

Three times?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, three times maybe. Like, pretty bad.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. It's such a scary thing because it fucking kills people.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it does.

[Joe Rogan]

Staff gets. Gets systemic, gets in your bloodstream, and you can die, dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's why I think I freaked out really bad with my knee, is because I remember laying in bed and being like. I called my wife and just set the phone next. I was like, hey, like, until you get home, like, can you just be on the phone? Because I'm kind of afraid I'm about to die a little bit. Yeah, it was really. It got, like, really scary.

[Joe Rogan]

There was swollen. Was it? So it was an external.

[Daniel Cormier]

It was super swollen? Yeah, it was super swollen. No, no, it wasn't an abrasion one. It was, like, inside of mine.

[Joe Rogan]

So it was internal?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So that really wasn't good. But I remember every time I've taken antibiotics with a staph infection, my experience has been that it gets really painful and a lot worse for, like, the first few hours when the antibiotics kick in and start killing it, and then it starts to get better. But the first couple of hours is, like, kind of scary. So when I first started taking the antibiotics, that's when I called my wife, because I don't take a lot of medicine. Like, if I take an ibuprofen, I will feel that shit working through my entire body. And, yeah, so I, like, took the antibiotics, and I started to feel it through my body, and I was like, this is scary. And I was like, hey, like, till you get Home. Let's be on the phone because I'm afraid I'm about to pass out and die here.

[Joe Rogan]

That's fucking terrifying.

[Daniel Cormier]

But I didn't want to go to the dock and then get cut open and not be able to fight because that fight had already got canceled and shit. So. Yeah, I know we're always put in tough spots.

[Joe Rogan]

I know, but it's like sometimes you just got to do that. Sometimes you have to cancel a fight. And I know nobody likes to hear that, but I know it's so different than boxing. Boxing, you get so few fight cancellations, you know, it's much less. But when you're wrestling, when you're grappling, you're constantly getting kicked and punched and you're fucking, you're doing so many different things. The odds of you getting injured are so much higher. I know Gordon got staff for a fucking year. Like, that's why his stomach is all up. Gordon Ryan was on antibiotics for a year and his internal gut bacteria, his flora, is just torched. Damn, he's just a mess.

[Daniel Cormier]

Damn.

[Joe Rogan]

Can't keep food down. He has this like constant fight or flight reaction in his body where he wants to vomit all the time. And he's going through training camps and beating everybody in grappling matches against the best in the world. That's how good he is. Yeah, like with staff for 12 years or, excuse me, 12 months. And then on top of that, this lingering stomach thing because of that, that no doctor seems to figure out they can't fix it. He's gone to like every. They've given a bunch of different shit. He's tried Peptides and this and that and you get a little bit of improvement. He starts training hard again, comes back.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, there's probably some like old lady in the Amazon jungle that knows how to cure that shit. I told him, he's like, just eat this stupid.

[Joe Rogan]

I told him try like a seven day fast. Try something nutty like.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, but like only avocados. Diet, I mean, it's gotta be so there's gotta be something.

[Joe Rogan]

It's gotta be something. But I would think like a fast where you just. I feel like you just completely let your gut reset.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, I don't know.

[Daniel Cormier]

Do you do those? No, no.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I've done a day. Yeah, I've never done like the long one. Dana just did a long one. He did like three days. Said it was awesome. So by the end of it, you feel fucking amazing.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I did the three day one and then I was like, Fuck, dude, I was just hungry for three days. What the fuck? I don't feel like a superhero at.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's variable.

[Daniel Cormier]

The one thing that I'm really big on is I like won't like I'm really in touch with what's going on. Usually with like my body and stuff, I'm really big on. I. I don't know why it doesn't get talked about more, but like digestive, like things that mess up my digestive system, I don't mess around with at all.

[Joe Rogan]

Kind of stuff.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like bread, pizzas, too much cheese, stuff like that. Like, it's terrible for you. It is. Dude. Every time I eat pizza, I like can't the next day.

[Joe Rogan]

It's not, it's not even pizza. It's American pizza. It's our wheat. Our wheat is poisoned. It really is. It's sprayed with folic acid and it's. All the nutrients are pulled out of it. There's glyphosate in the wheat. It's like that's what's really going on. It's also a re engineered wheat, so it's got more glutens, more complex gluten. So it's got a higher yield per acre. So your body's like, like what is this causes all this inflammation. When I go to Italy, I eat pizza over there. I eat a whole pizza. I feel great.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, really? You could. Nice.

[Joe Rogan]

The next day I feel great. I never have a problem. But I do feel bloated. Like I get. My gut swells.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Like I'll eat a giant bowl of spaghetti or something like that. And then I look like I'm pregnant.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah. I don't mess around.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel so tired. Just like I got shot with a tranquilizer dart. Like, but I'm so dumb. I keep going back.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know, dude, it's hard not to do. You're just like, surely this will work this time.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just, it's so delicious. Like I see a plate of lasagna, I'm like, fuck it, we're going in. You know, But I know what I'm getting into when I do it.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know I don't. I actually don't get like that anymore. I have like a weird relationship with food now where that shit is just fuel to me, kind of.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

When I'm like low in weight, I get cravings. But right now when I'm like just kind of good, not hungry, not like Overdoing it and stuff. I don't really feel like I get too many crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you have a nutritionist or anything like that?

[Daniel Cormier]

I use a nutritionist inside my camps. Yeah, she's great.

[Joe Rogan]

What's an average meal for you?

[Daniel Cormier]

I wish that I, like, actually gave a shit so I could follow and actually be more helpful. There's two things I really don't care about. Strength and conditioning and nutrition. I'm like, just like, tell me. I, like, don't explain it to me.

[Joe Rogan]

Just make me do it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, just tell me what to do and I'll just do that thing. But it's actually a lot more food than what you'd think. And I can lose a lot of weight when she has me do it. She do it. Trying to think what it is. It's more so a lot of carbs. More towards the end of the day, like before. Because I really don't sleep good. Usually when I'm really training a lot, my nervous system is like, not ever down. So at night I usually won't sleep well. So I'll eat like a big bowl of oatmeal at night. Everyone is kind of different. What I will say, though, that I would big time recommend to fighters and stuff is after hard workouts, drinking dextrose or Gatorade with, like, some electrolytes. If you have multiple workouts in a day, that's a giant game changer. Like, because there's a little bit of a window, from my understanding, I don't really know how the shit works, but there's a little bit of a window where it's like 45, like 20 to 45 minutes after you're done working, where your body will just take sugar and put it back into your muscles.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Daniel Cormier]

And so I'll drink a shitload of sugar after, like, really hard workouts. Like, really hard sparring sessions. Like 50, 60 grams of sugar, which is insane. But.

[Joe Rogan]

But not when you're training that hard.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, not when you're training that hard.

[Joe Rogan]

Mayweather drinks soda. Yeah, he drinks like, he'll drink a Coca Cola after training.

[Daniel Cormier]

And it's probably good for.

[Joe Rogan]

It's probably good for you when you're training that hard. Like, it's not like, you know people, oh, soda's bad for you. Well, sure, if you're just drinking soda, but if you're running marathons or something crazy like that, or you're doing something like, like really exhausting, it's really good for you right after a workout.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, definitely. Especially if you have multiple workouts like that's, that's one big thing that she does that I added in in the morning. It's, it's like a pretty balanced thing though. It's like, not like no fat, no carbs. It's like nothing like that. It's like a pretty balanced. It's a lot of protein.

[Joe Rogan]

What's the sources of protein?

[Daniel Cormier]

I drink a lot of protein shakes. I get it. I'm like a part owner in this company called Vegan. So I just get like a shitload of protein for free. Pretty much pea protein.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's vegan protein.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's Vegan protein. The other ones kind of mess up my stomach a little bit. Like.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, really?

[Daniel Cormier]

The. Just the ones that are made out of like milk and.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, like whey.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Way makes you fart like crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah, those ones. Yeah. I'm. If I drink, if I take something, I almost immediately know if it's gonna mess with my digestive system. And I can't be having that while I'm like, like rolling around with yeah dudes.

[Joe Rogan]

And I know there's certain protein bars like, yeah, Peter ATI has this great protein bar called David. They're so delicious. But whenever I eat one, I have to like go outside because my farts are so bad. Yeah, I didn't want to be in the house.

[Daniel Cormier]

What is it, the fiber or the protein?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what's in them. They're delicious. It's low calorie, high protein. I think it's like a small bar. It's like 30 grams of protein. But whatever it is, just make your body's just like this. What is this? It's just I generally think that anything that does that to you can't be ideal. It just can't be good for you. So, yeah, I'd rather just eat a piece of steak or something like that. Better for you. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Summer is here at last. That means it's time to go enjoy that vacation you've been planning for months. But before you hop on a plane or hit the beach, make sure everything is taken care of at your job. Nobody wants to work on vacation. If you're hiring, there's a fast and easy way to stay on top of things. Zip Intro. It's Zip Recruiter's newest feature that helps you find and meet qualified candidates in a matter of days. And more importantly, you could try it for [e-mail] Rogan with Zip Intro, when you post your job. It'll immediately find and schedule interviews with top talent. You could be talking with people the very next day. All you have to do is pick a time and to really speed things up you can schedule back to back video calls. Make the most of your summer. Enjoy the benefits of Speed hiring with Zip Intro only from ZipRecruiter rated the number one hiring site based on G2. Try Zip Intro for free at ZipRecruiter.com Rogan again that ZipRecruiter.com RogAn Zip Intro post jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. This episode is brought to you by Onx hunt. With over 5 million users, Hunters love the Onx Hunt app, including me. I use it all the time. But this app has so many more uses outside of hunting. There are people who use it in their everyday lives. Some farmers and ranchers use it for measuring fields and fixing fences, or wildland firefighters who use topo maps and aerial imagery to navigate terrain while fighting fires. There isn't even thousands of game wardens and police officers who use it throughout the country for their jobs every day. Ultimately, anyone who needs good aerial imagery with public and private landowner names and boundaries in the palm of their hands will find Onx valuable. The best part is you can try Onyx Hunt free for seven days, download on Google Play the App store or visit onyxmaps.com hunt yeah, outside, but I.

[Daniel Cormier]

Also have different cravings in camp too. Like outside of camp I'll do a little bit like more fruits and stuff like that instead of a bunch of rice or potatoes or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't have fruits when you're in camp.

[Daniel Cormier]

I still do, but it's not as much as you'd think. Like it's like maybe a cup, cup or two a day. I'll do that. It's not a ton of vegetables, but it's like specific vegetables because I've been getting a lot of staff. It's like ones that counteract like staff stuff. She's.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you like take fermented stuff, like kimchi things along those lines?

[Daniel Cormier]

That's a piece of it. Fermented stuff is good. It's like a decent amount of garlic stuff. Like turmeric stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

Garlic. Apparently there was a study that was done with garlic with like external staph infections. And it's as effective or more effective than antibiotics?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I believe that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Garlic fucking kills everything. There's a reason why like a lot of people use it in their food. A lot of cultures use it in their food. It's to Prevent food poisoning.

[Daniel Cormier]

So, dude, when I got that, the knee infection staff, I was like, all right, I'm just gonna try to kill this with a bunch of garlic. And, dude, I was taking like 10 or 15. Dude, I was taking like 10 or 15 garlic pills. Like the high potency ones.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

After about two days of that, I shit out every single piece of shit inside my body that ever existed. The ones that were up in the attic, just chilling, bro. All of it came out. I was like, oh, a little hack there, you know, so maybe you don't have to fast for three days. You could just eat a bunch of garlic and everything out.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did you go with the pills and not the cloves? It's more convenient.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like just eating garlic. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Eating garlic.

[Daniel Cormier]

I don't know. I don't know if I would do that.

[Joe Rogan]

I eat garlic cloves sometimes. Yeah, you cook them? No, I just eat them raw.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it. It feels like it's doing something. All right, If I'm not feeling good, I'll eat garlic. Like, I'll eat like raw cloves, like three or four cloves. And your body's like, whoa.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

They don't give you indigestion and stuff?

[Joe Rogan]

A little bit, maybe. But it really, what it does is like, it's. It feels like you just took a drug. It feels like you took a medicine.

[Daniel Cormier]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

All right, how many you eat? Four.

[Joe Rogan]

Three. Four?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I'll try that.

[Joe Rogan]

Some fat cloves. Just chew them down. They taste nasty.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, while you're eating.

[Daniel Cormier]

I feel like I've tried that. Yeah, I'm trying that. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But I mean, I think there's something to, like, ancient medicine. Like, people have been taking garlic. I mean, obviously it has something to do with taste. Thousand year old onion and garlic Eye Remedy Kills mrsa. Thousand years old. Whoa, look at that. Cool.

[Daniel Cormier]

Is that the recipe right there?

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that cool language. What is that language? Whoa, look how wild that language is. Good piece of draw Old English, I guess. Wow. I guess you can probably read it. So. Astonished to find an almost completely wiped out, methicillin resistant staphylococcus. How do you say that? Staphyl. Staphylococcus.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I always try to say that.

[Joe Rogan]

Staphylococcus. Staphylococcus aureus, otherwise known as mrsa. Their findings were presented in National Microbiology Conference. The remedy was found in Ball's Leech book, an old English manuscript containing instructions on various treatments held in the British Library. In that wild man, like, there's stuff that works that, like, people been doing for thousands of years, but people dismiss it as being voodoo.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. You know what else is a cool one, too, is, like, a tip. Do you cramp up a lot ever?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I take a lot of electrolytes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

I used to. I used to. But then I realized I drink element, like, almost, like, every day.

[Daniel Cormier]

Basically, my PT a long time ago recommended that because I used to cramp up a lot. Spicy food, I guess, makes you not cramp up as much.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, really?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. So like, about 10 years ago, when he told me that now I love spicy food and I don't really need to force myself to eat it, but when he first told me that, I started eating a bunch of spicy stuff and I stopped cramping up as much.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe that's why I don't cramp up. I eat a lot of spicy food.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, that might be why. Because they have these little things that the UFC gives us, too, called hot shots, where if you're cutting weight, you're supposed to drink it, and it's pretty much just cinnamon and cayenne and, like, some other stuff. Yeah. And it's supposed to stop you from cramping. It works, though.

[Joe Rogan]

No kidding. I wonder what the mechanism is of that. That's interesting.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I. I love hot sauce, so I. I have my own, like, kind of hot sauce. Like, senior Lechuga made, like, a little line of three hot sauces.

[Daniel Cormier]

All right, nice for me.

[Joe Rogan]

But how do spicy foods prevent cramping? Okay, science is simple. If your neurons are too busy firing off to your mouth, they won't have time to bother cramping up your muscles.

[Daniel Cormier]

What? That sounds pretend.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

That sounds pretend.

[Joe Rogan]

Dr. McKinnon.

[Daniel Cormier]

Just trick them. Trick your body.

[Joe Rogan]

Look over here. Found that spicy drinks help prevent these short bursts of muscle cramps. He teamed up with a biotech company to produce a product that could be sold online and found on the shelves at select stores. Hot shot. There it is. A drinkable shot mixed with ginger and cinnamon. Iron man champ Craig Alexander is an avid user of the supplement, along with several other Rio Olympic runners. Interesting.

[Daniel Cormier]

It works, dude, because the second I started doing that, I stopped cramping up. I still get one every once in a while. It's not like, 100% thing, but it works.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. Muscle cramps must be brutal when you're cutting weight, Right? Because you're draining your body of basically everything.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't. My weight cuts. I'm pretty like, I Kind of got down to a science a little bit. I don't really cramp super bad. How much do you cut, like a week before? I try to be like 16 to 18 pounds heavy over and then I'll lose that last bit that week. But I'll walk around if I'm really fat, like on vacation and not giving a. Just not caring. I'll be about 162 when I'm training good. And like all of that, I'll be about 157, 158. And then I just gotta lose until I'm about 52, 51 the week before and then that week.

[Joe Rogan]

The week is a calorie restriction in the beginning and then water restriction or how do you do it?

[Daniel Cormier]

It. It's a decent. So 10 days away, I start loading up on water. Like, the rule of thumb is however many pounds you got to lose, that's how many pounds of water you'll drink that day. So if I have 16 to lose, I'd have to drink two gallons of water. Also, don't take any of my advice if you're listening to. Because I don't really know. I know that, like, water can get really scary. So I don't, you know, like, people chugging distilled water have like, killed themselves and stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

Distilled water, Is that what you drink?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Joe Rogan]

That's not good for you.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. But yeah, 10 days away, I start loading up on the water. And then on the Tuesday, so we weigh in Friday. So however many days before that is, on Tuesday you'll do the. Cut the sodium. And then that pretty much you lose a lot when you're chugging that much water and cut sodium. So I would say on Tuesday, a lot of it is water. And then it's kind of up to me how crazy I want to go with food. I'm obviously not eating like super huge meals that week, but. But I don't let myself get too hungry. I'm pretty good about a lot of stuff where now I can kind of be like, if I go to bed at like an 8amount of hunger instead of like a 7, I'll know almost exactly how much I'll lose the next day, which is like, kind of cool.

[Joe Rogan]

How much of a performance hit do you think you have? I mean, obviously you're in phenomenal condition, but how much of a hit do you think you have in dehydrating yourself 24 hours before a fight?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I think it depends on how much water you lose too. I think just off the top of my head, maybe 15 or 20.

[Joe Rogan]

15 or 20%, maybe. So what would you think about if the UFC instituted more weight classes and they eliminated weight cuts? Like, what if they said, like, because it is. For some guys, it is the most dangerous part of the fight because some guys go hard. Some guys are losing 26, 30 pounds within a couple of days, and they just look like, hell, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

I think that the way to solve that, because one's tried doing that with, like, the rehydration test, and everyone that I talked to that's, like, been involved with that has been like, dude, I could cheat that easy.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, really?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. But how do they cheat it? I mean, there's just, like, if you know that you're gonna get, like, hydrate tested at a certain time, I'm sure that they probably just drink most of their water during that time or something like that.

[Joe Rogan]

But then your weight would be higher, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, your weight would have to be higher. But I don't know that they, like, test you. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. I don't really know, honestly. But, I mean, if they're gonna test you, when you do they test you, like, hey, your weight has to be this, and then your hydra. I think that they just go in and they're like, hey, how yellow is your piss? Type of thing? You know, I'm pretty sure that that's what it might be if it's, like, more scientific than cool. But if I think it might just be like, hey, it's gotta be more.

[Joe Rogan]

Scientific, because sometimes my piss is pretty yellow. I just meant I drank a lot of vitamins, you know, I think it's. There's like, a. An actual test where they test.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The levels.

[Daniel Cormier]

I think that if you added in more weight classes, that would handle a lot of it. I probably just do 140.

[Joe Rogan]

Would you. If that. Would that be ideal for you?

[Daniel Cormier]

That'd be pretty ideal, yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I feel like the UFC should have more weight classes. And I've said this for a long time. I just think this. There's some gaps that are crazy. Like, the 85, 205 gap is nuts. 20 pounds is nuts.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's nuts. That's three weight classes, at least in between fights. Like, that's. In between classes, rather. That's nuts. I just don't understand that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. If you. I mean, I think that the way that old sports kind of do things, they do things for a reason. So, like, boxing and wrestling, they all have, like, it's every £7 or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

It is, the UFC is like, oh, too many champions that way. It's too confusing. I'm like, what are you talking? What? It's one UFC champion per weight class.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You'd have more champions, and then you could also have more champion versus champion fights.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it wouldn't be like ilia going up 10 pounds is not too crazy. But Alex, when he went from 85 to 205, that was pretty crazy. Yeah, that's a big ass jump, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Obviously he could do it because he's one of the craziest weight cutters of all time. He was fighting 85 and weighing in at 226 the day. What? Really? Oh, yeah. When he fought adesanya, he was 226 when he got into the cage.

[Daniel Cormier]

Is that 41 pounds or 31 pounds?

[Joe Rogan]

41 pounds.

[Daniel Cormier]

So after 36 hours, he put on that 41 pounds? Yeah. Holy.

[Joe Rogan]

Holy.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

He's also giant. He's an enormous guy. It's like a lot of body mass.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And apparently it's easier to cut weight, like Yoel Romero style, like, when you're that muscular, because most of the muscles water, which is kind of counterintuitive. You think like a fat guy would. You could be able to lose more weight, but no, it's actually to dry out. The big muscular guys can lose more weight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I have a theory, too. Like, the more ripped you are, the easier it is to sweat too. Because if your muscle is like muscle, then fat than skin and you gotta, like, it's gotta travel through the fat. This is how I fucking think, dude. This probably. There's no evidence of any of that because there are some fatsos that sweat. But I don't know, sometimes I'm like, I can just see who's gonna be a good sweater and who's not. But that's probably me just being.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I don't know if there's any science to that.

[Daniel Cormier]

Makes sense in your head, though. Kind of makes sense in your head.

[Joe Rogan]

I kind of see what you're saying. I kind of see what you're saying.

[Daniel Cormier]

But you could also, I guess, make argument that fat makes you warmer too. Maybe that sweats it out too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

But I don't think that there would be a problem with doing multiple weight classes, because then you would just have like, what you do in boxing where you just have like a ton of. You have like one dude with like eight belts.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Daniel Cormier]

That would be cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, look at Pacquiao.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because Keeps going up in weight classes and yeah, I think that it'd just be better for the athletes and I think it'd be better for the sport in general. You're still going to have like incredible fights because the level of competition, particularly at the lowest weight classes, is so high right now. Like, I think your weight class, featherweight and lightweight, are the most competitive weight classes in the sport. And there's almost too many top contenders where guys are forced to take fights that maybe you really shouldn't take that fight because you're kind of entitled contention and then, oh, you lose a close decision. Now you're back to the drawing board. Now you got to fight this guy. Oh, you got injured in camp, you lose to that guy too. Now you're set back when you could have been a champion. Yeah, you know, it's, there's a lot of like weirdness going on with possibilities and, you know, just luck, bad luck and good luck.

[Daniel Cormier]

Bad luck and good luck. Timing, I think, is a big thing. Like, I think that I'm pretty. I was even saying this before the Figueredo fight. I was like, watch, like, if I go out and finish Figgy, which not a lot of people are able to do, the timing of everything is gonna be perfect for me because there will be no one else. And that's, and that's me also, you know, coming off of a loss from Umar just a year ago, which anytime you lose, it's kind of devastating. You're like, oh, it'll never happen for me, you know, but then it's like, oh, wait, no, if I just, if this thing gets timed out right, you know, like, it could work out.

[Joe Rogan]

So a lot of it was a competitive close.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I know, I. Super.

[Joe Rogan]

What did you think went wrong?

[Daniel Cormier]

More than anything? Okay. It was, it was like a. It's never just one thing. It's always like things get compiled and then they exponentially get worse. One big thing was I knew I was fighting in the Middle east and I wasn't gonna get like a nod if it was a close fight. And Umar is a defensive guy and I'm a defensive guy and I knew that it would be. There was potential for rounds to be really close. My game plan wasn't going to be to take him down. So anytime you're going to be like, hey, like, I'm committing to striking, there is a little bit of a level of rolling the dice because one striking matches in a five minute round are really hard to like hammer down and be like, I won this round against really High level guys. That's my opinion. I thought that I would be able to stuff most of the shots. I was like, okay, most of this thing is gonna be done. Striking. I need to have like big moments in order for me to feel like I'm really winning these rounds so that there can be no argument that I'm losing. And if we just are point scoring each other, which Umar is good at and I'm good at, I'm kind of rolling the dice a little bit and kind of leaving it into the hands of who, God knows who the judges are, you know, So a piece of it was I didn't want to lose another close split decision. Like a lot of my losses or a couple of my losses are just close split decisions. And I'm like, fucking, man. I'm not. I'd rather just go for it than lose, you know, but that pulled me out of my game plan and just the way that I typically fight. Like, I'm not the guy that hunts for knockouts, you know, I'm just not that guy. And so I just got pulled out of my strategy. I got really frustrated in the fight by it not working. Like, me not being able to have really big moments. And now looking back, I'm just like, man, what were you thinking? Like, just go out fight like how you do and you'll do awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think specifically? Like, you would have done different in exchanges.

[Daniel Cormier]

I would have fought him the exact same way that I would have fought the first round. Like that entire fight I was being really defensive and just looking for one big shot in the first round. I didn't fight like that the first round. I was cool with point scoring. I was like, okay, this guy's gonna wrestle me. Let's see how good he is at wrest. I can hang. Once I was like, oh, okay, cool. Like I can hang. Then I just started going for big shots, which is just like not a good way to beat a really high level guy. It's kind of a lazy game plan, honestly. Like, if the plan isn't to completely outclass the person and win in every area and be good enough to do so, in my opinion, that's just like not an expression of the highest level of martial arts. That's a little bit lazy, you know, And I was, I was a little bit lazy. And maybe my approach to that, which maybe lazy isn't the right word, but I could have done a lot better at just trusting myself more, being more confident in my ability to just be like, no, like, I'll Beat him everywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, looking for the big shots is always such a trap. Until it's not.

[Daniel Cormier]

Until it's not. And you look real cool when it happens.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my goodness.

[Daniel Cormier]

And we all like looking cool. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You land the big ones, and you've landed a lot of the big ones.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you've had so many of those moments, like the Frank Yeager fight or, you know, there's been quite the Marlon Moraes fight. That was a wild one.

[Daniel Cormier]

That was a great one. That was probably like, my happiest moment maybe ever in life, just because I had just come off the most embarrassing loss ever against Sterling. And they were like, hey, you want to fight the number one guy in Abu Dhabi during COVID And I was like. And that was, like, kind of back when Marlon was still a really scary guy. He's kind of been on a skid since then, but back then, he was real scary. And I was like, I don't know if you guys are setting me up for Marlin knock me the out or how this is, like, what the thinking behind me fighting the number one contender is, but I was like, yeah, cool. Like, if you guys are gonna give me that shot, I'll take it for sure. And then when I finished it, I was just like, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

And you finished him with a wheel kick.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Which I, during COVID was practicing in my basement with my wife, like, every day. Isn't that stupid? I was like, why? I was like, man, you should have asked me for a cut.

[Joe Rogan]

No, because it's a thing where, you know, if you. You don't expect it from a guy who doesn't really throw a lot of them, you know? And so, like, you see his foot turn, and you're like, what's going on here? And before you know it, it's too late.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And that heel is headed towards your dome.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. People that are good at those, too. It's a problem.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, that doesn't need to land anywhere specific for it to, like, rattle your brain enough to knock you down.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's a terrifying kick. It is so much power.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. If there was one thing I would not want to get hit with, it would be that my.

[Joe Rogan]

During my taekwondo days, I used to feel like I was always gonna be fine. Like, I'd be. I was like. I felt like. You know, I was young. I was 19. I felt invulnerable, and I was really good. And I fought in the nationals in California, and I hit this kid with a wheel kick, and he never got up. And he was snoring like, Faceplant, out cold, taken off in a stretcher, taken to the hospital. And I never felt the same about fighting again because I was always scared that that could happen to me then because I was, like, doing this for nothing. There was no money. I was doing this for nothing. I had no health insurance. I was poor.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And I was like, what am I doing? Like, this is like, I could have easily got hit by that same kick, but I was better than him, and I landed. But there's guys that are better than me, and if they hit me like that face down, snort. I mean, it was. Was my heel hurt for days?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I was limping the next day.

[Daniel Cormier]

My knee hurt after the Frankie fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, really?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

That was such a good knee, though.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it was. Yeah. But I kind of felt a similar way where. I don't know, I guess you kind of just get used to that, where.

[Joe Rogan]

You'Re just like, but you're a professional. That's your sport. That's your. Your living. This is what you do. For me, I was a young kid doing this thing that I was really good at, and it just gave me, like, some sense of purpose. And then I was like, what the, man?

[Daniel Cormier]

So how. How, like. So you didn't have, like, big aspiring dreams to be, like, a Taekwondo champ or anything?

[Joe Rogan]

I had dreams to be an Olympic. The Olympic. To go to the Olympics.

[Daniel Cormier]

But was that, like, a realistic dream?

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

You were that good?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I was that good.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

I had won national tournaments, and I. I'd beaten guys that had been in, like, high ranking, and I had a very close decision. I thought I should have won the year that the Taekwondo made it into the Olympics against the national champion.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

So I was good, and I was really young, so I was getting better all the time.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But then I started kickboxing, and when I started training in kickboxing, I realized that Taekwondo was kind of bullshit because my hands sucked, and I would spar with kickboxers, and I was getting cornered in the ropes, and I just. I didn't have the skills, and I was like, oh, this is like, I have this distorted perception of my ability to fight based on my ability to fight in Taekwondo. I was really good at that. But then when I started boxing and kickboxing, I was like this. Like, that piece that's missing in Taekwondo without the face punching. It nullifies so much of what Taekwondo is good at. But then when I learned that stuff, I realized, like, oh, but I have a massive advantage with my legs because they have to close the distance with me and I can do things they can't do, like regular kickboxers. I was amazed at how many of them were just kind of of boxers who learned a few shitty kicks and they would stand on the outside and they would take a step forward and I just blast them and they just had no idea what to do. Like a really hard kicker. And then I started doing Muay Thai and I was like leg kicks. And so I went from American kickboxing above the waist to Muay Thai. I was like, there's too much to learn.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then I was doing comedy at the same time. So I just quit fighting. Yeah, I got to get out before I get hurt.

[Daniel Cormier]

When did you start grappling?

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing in your future. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now. Even if all you've got is spare change, you don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all the market's ups and downs. You just need to stick with it and Acorns makes that easy too. Acorns automatically invest your money and giving it a chance to grow with time. Sign up now and join over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Plus Acorns will boost your new account with a twenty dollar bonus investment offer available at acorns.comjre that's a C O R N S.comjre to get your twenty dollars bonus investment today, paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] JRE America's beverage companies are investing in America. We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns. We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in all 50 states employing more than 275,000Americans in good paying jobs delivering for the nation because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great. Learn more at wedeliver for America america.org paid for by the American Beverage association when I was 30.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I started grappling right at. I guess I was 29. It was right after the first UFC.

[Daniel Cormier]

Did you like wrestle at all or anything?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I wrestled in high school, but only one year because I was doing Taekwondo at the same time, and I had to pick one, and I did a year of both, and then I was like, the problem with this is, like, I'd rather kick someone and knock them unconscious like that. It was so. To just whack and hear the whole crowd go silent was the wildest thing. And watch someone cry. I loved it. It was my favorite thing in life. And I was like, wrestling is cool. Like, it's good to know. It's good to be able to pin people. But there was no UFC back then. So it's like everything you were doing was just, like. You did find a thing and get really good at it. But the disillusionment of going from Taekwondo to boxing and kickboxing and then to Muay Thai and then jiu jitsu. So when I started doing jiu jitsu, I was like, oh, my God, I'm fucking completely helpless. So I had this thing in my head, well, at least I know. I know how to leg kick. I know how to box now. I know how to fight. Oh, my God. I'm tapping out constantly. And so then I was like, fuck, I gotta learn how to do jiu jitsu.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it was this thing where, you know, I feel real fortunate to have grown up in a time where no one knew what was the best style, and then see the UFC emerge in 93, and then watch this incredible transformation of martial arts, where martial arts advances more in 10, 20 years than it had the last 30,000 years. It was incredible to watch.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that they did it, man, because that's such a cool question, is whose martial arts is the best? Martial arts, no one knew, man.

[Joe Rogan]

And we were all delusional. I was so delusional. Like, I remember I used to do Taekwondo with a friend of mine. We were kickboxing at the time, and we were doing at this gym where these judo guys were. And I was like, look at these idiots. This stupid judo, that's useless.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Meanwhile, I had no idea if those guys got a hold of me, I was helpless.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Because judo guys will slam you on your head. Yeah, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Rolling with judo guys. Like, I remember I rolled with Caro Parisian once. I was like, he's like a chimpanzee. He was so strong. Like, it didn't make any sense. We were roughly the same size, and he was just ragdolling me around. I was like, there's something to throwing bodies all the time. You know, you're taking. If you're 180 pound guy, you're throwing 180 pound person over and over and over again. And your whole core is just primed for that. Boom.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And their balance and their ability to adjust your weight and use it against you.

[Daniel Cormier]

Watching it in the Olympics is awesome because they'll. They'll like spear their own heads.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That is crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

I like watching that. That's like. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

Next too.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Oh, you'd have to. Dude, like the way that they land on. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So many of those guys, like, you see them later in their career, they got like one small arm because they're nerves are all shut off in their neck and then fused discs and they're just like, I did a good job. A great career. You can't even walk, man. It's nuts.

[Daniel Cormier]

Every taekwondo guy I know has like one super strong oblique and they're like shaped like this.

[Joe Rogan]

And well, you got to learn how to kick from both sides. Yeah, that's so important. That's one thing that I really admire about your style because I think that there's. There's going to be a time where that is just ubiquitous, where everybody switches. Because there's so many guys that are just like, oh, he's a southpaw. Oh, he fights orthodox. Like, man, that's just leaving too much to predictability.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I think about striking like a Dance Dance Revolution game where, like, because you're making all the reads with your eyes. It's like left arm's coming at me. Moving, like right leg, whatever. It's not like grappling. We're grappling. We get to interact with each other and feel each other and move each other that way. And I can pretty much sometimes do it with my eyes closed.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Daniel Cormier]

Striking is done mostly with our eyes. So we have to do like these Dance Dance Revolutiony, like, okay. React to everything that we're seeing. So if I'm just switching my stance and now you have to like read the sentence backwards.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Daniel Cormier]

It gets really hard, you know, and.

[Joe Rogan]

Especially if you're just as good with both sides.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yes, yes. And I would say that if you're starting, you don't need to be like super stellar at both, but just have a couple good attacks to do from your other stance and then just like build off of there. I got, I started switching stances one because I really liked watching Nanito Diner, who wouldn't like fully switch, but he would have like kind of steps like that Where I was like, oh, cool. And then also I dislocated my elbow really bad about like a week and a half into training. Just landed on it, posted, dislocated it. And so I could only. Or that was my left arm, so I could only use my right arm. So for like six months, I just went lefty and only used my right arm as, like, my lead hand. And that's how I got really good at it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Just forcing yourself to just constantly be in that position. Because everybody wants to be in the position where they're the most strong. Especially if you're trying to be competitive and sparring. Right. That's why it's what's so important about, like, the Gracies always talk about keeping things playful, like learning how to, like, not. Don't try to win. You're trying to develop your skills and to be able to switch. I think, like, TJ in his prime, like when TJ fought Hen and Barao, that fight, to me was one of the best championship performances that I ever saw.

[Daniel Cormier]

I agree.

[Joe Rogan]

Because nobody thought T.J. was going to win that fight. Hannah Barral was thought to be the number one pound for it was him and Aldo.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Would people make the argument who's the best? Hannah Barra was. I think he was undefeated or maybe had one early his career.

[Daniel Cormier]

He was an animal at the time.

[Joe Rogan]

Animal, animal, animal. And TJ pieced him up, and it was like he was sparring. He looked so in the zone and relaxed, and he was constantly switching stances and footwork and angles.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, they. Dwayne flew me out for that fight because that's when they were training at alpha male to be TJ sparring partner for one of those fights. I'm almost positive it was that one. And I remember the whole time I was like, this isn't gonna go good for tj, you know, because Barao was just that guy at the time that everyone was afraid of. And then when I watched it, I was like, oh, shit. That shit really works good. I used to train in the Netherlands a little bit too, with Andy Sauer and those guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, really?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. So that was really cool. But there's. It's like traditional. Like, you stand in one stance, like, this is how we do shit here, you know, And I was like, switching stances. I was probably like the gay guy at the gym a little bit, you know, like, being kind of flamboyant and, like, show offy. And so I remember going with some of the of sours good guys and just good guys that we would spar with and I wouldn't really get hit that much. And I was like, oh, shit. This, like, actually works. Like, this isn't just some like, foo foo, whatever stuff, you know, it's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That Dwayne developed that style, but he didn't fight that way. Yeah, that's what's crazy. Yeah, like, Dwayne had like more of a traditional, you know, he's Boss Rudin inspired style. And then he realizes, like, you know, the best way to fight is actually to constantly be changed. And then he develops this system and. And you know, Dwayne's like super focused. I know you know this, but for people who don't know, Dwayne has like a notebook like filled with notes. And it's all like, he's got systems.

[Daniel Cormier]

This is his life.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's not like what Adesanya likes to call button smashing when you're playing a game. Like. No, it's. It's very systematic. And tj, I think in that henna baral fight was the greatest expression of what Dwayne teaches.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep, yep. Yeah, that was a super amazing fight. Yeah, just switching. I mean, just simple little stuff, you know, like, it's a lot of striking is just like how coordinated you are. Like, that's like a big piece of striking. And then. Can I just overwhelm you with information? Like that's like a strategy to run, you know, Some people choose like, okay, I'm willing to take a few to like land my big one, you know. That's like an okay strategy. It works for guys like Ilia and stuff.

[Joe Rogan]

But Ilya's not that easy to hit that.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's true too. He has like a way, way good guard.

[Joe Rogan]

He rolls with stuff. Like the Josh fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, he like takes. He like slides away from stuff in these big bombs are coming his way.

[Daniel Cormier]

He's doing like the highest form, like intellectually, he's doing that style at its highest expression with the strategy of I'm about to knock you the fuck out. Yeah. Which shouldn't be everyone's strategy, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you have to have that, that touch of death.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, that's true.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got that God given power. His power is fucking crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

It is crazy. Trevor's actually helped me understand why it works really good. So. Okay, so not to get crazy technical with it, I guess.

[Joe Rogan]

Technical. Let's get in there.

[Daniel Cormier]

All right, cool. So squared and bladed stances. When you're in a squared stance, you can move really good left to right. That was most of My career was being like, I came from a basketball background. I know that I'm very quick and agile and I can move left, right, really good. If I just keep my hands up, up, whatever, it'll be fine probably, you know. So a lot of squared stance stuff is I'm just going to cut left, right, overwhelm this person with all of my weapons and angles, and always constantly make them move off of the things I'm doing and not the other way around. That's good. But it's really hard to like get a ton of leverage in anything that you're doing when you're standing square. Like, I can't, like, if I'm going to throw a ball, I don't throw a ball like this, right. I throw a ball like this, right?

[Joe Rogan]

You have your shoulder behind the other shoulder. Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

So squared stance is super good for being agile, moving left, right, and overwhelming people with the amount of attacks that you could throw at them. Because also if I'm standing square, all of my weapons are really available for me to throw. Like, it doesn't take like this is faster than this and just because it's like six inches closer or whatever. In a bladed stance, you get a fuckload of leverage. Because if you watch Ilia, he's always standing like he's about to throw a javelin and that's pretty much what he's doing is just like. And this is kind of like the science of boxing a little bit, like I said that Trevor helped me with. So I'm a lot more bladed now than I was because now we're trying to get like some serious leverage on stuff because five round fights, moving the entire time, fighting these really good wrestlers, it can get to the point where it's like, it just gets quirky and just like a little bitchy looking, you know. And like, I don't really want to tap people to victory, you know, For a long time I would compensate in being like, all right, but I'll have wheel kicks, knees and elbows. And that, like, took me a decent amount of ways too, where it's like, cool. Now I can finish guys like that also. But these bladed stances where you can make a shitload of leverage with them are really cool. I think finding a balance between the two is really awesome. Ilya is like, only. And that's just my expression of my martial arts. I want to be like the Jack of all trades guys and be able to be like, oh, you're that style. I'll just archetype you in this style. But Ilia is, like, always ready to throw javelin. And he's really good at closing space with his lead leg. Like, he'll like jab, hook and really creep his lead leg near and then just bomb a right hand. Because he is a shorter guy, but he never seems like he's having that much of an issue getting super inside.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's going to be interesting. Seeing him at 55, that was interesting. Much bigger guys. Like, think about Mauricio Rufy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

55 or.

[Daniel Cormier]

And he moves good and has leverage and he's gigantic.

[Joe Rogan]

How tall is Roofy? I mean, he's got to be six one, maybe six two. And he's 55. And he's not thin.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, he's lean, but he's not, like, scrawny. He's got muscle. He's huge. For 55. There's some 55. And Ilya, as powerful as he is, he's not that big. Big. It's going to be interesting to see because. Because of this ten pound. Ten pounds is just like. It's a lot of weight, man. You know, it's like when you're dealing with 155 pound person, it's a significant percentage of your body weight.

[Daniel Cormier]

Especially when everyone's cutting like £30.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what roof he cuts, but when I see him walking around, he looks like he's £190.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, like Islam. Islam's huge. Yeah, he's big, dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When I interview him in the cage afterwards, I'm always like, like, how.

[Daniel Cormier]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

How are you? 155. How?

[Daniel Cormier]

I know how.

[Joe Rogan]

He's thick as. He's got a giant back.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And when he gets a hold of guys, it's like he's just got this leverage, this grappling squeeze that. It's. I remember when he fought Drew Dober and like, when he got Dober down to the ground, I was like, that's a wrap. Yeah, it's a wrap as soon as he gets on top and then he starts clamping down, squeezing. And guys are just like. Oliveira was tapping, like the moment it was on. Yeah, fuck this.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, a lot of those really good grappler guys, they're strong, definitely, but they're really strong at closing up all of the space. Like, I can. If you let me get an underhook, like, I could feel pretty strong. Like, even if you're much bigger than me, I'll, like, make you take a couple steps back, which really shouldn't happen. But if I just close up all of the space, which I think is a big component of being a really good grappler, is being able to be like, nope, that's my space. You don't get that this, you know, and you're not gonna get inside of mine. I can feel strong as fuck, you know, and yeah, those types of guys, they're just so used to being so compact and never letting anyone get inside their arms or wherever it is that they need to get that. It's just, it's like impossible to feel like you can move them. I feel like there's two types of being strong in grappling. There's being strong in, like, I don't let you move me. And then there's strong in. I get to move you really good. And the good, good guys get to do both. Like, if I can grab you and move you really easy, I'll feel really strong. If you grab me and I feel like a rock, I'm. I'll feel really strong. And I think that some people do both of those really well. And then some people do one or the other really well. But those types of guys, like the Islams, they do both really good.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, and he's also. His striking has leveled up significantly. Like, his striking is much, much better than it was when he was younger. Was. He's just, he's a threat everywhere. Like when he knocked out Volk with that high kick. Yeah, that's crazy. Crazy. But granted, if I was in V's corner, I would say, no, you're not taking it. You've been drinking beer and eating kebabs. Like, there's no way you're taking this fight on 10 days notice. I don't care how confident you are. I don't care how much you like fighting. That's a crazy thing. I don't care how much money they're paying you because you look at the slide that his career took, right? He arguably won that first fight with Islam. Very close fight, loses a decision. Or was it a draw?

[Daniel Cormier]

It was a decision. Shit. Was it a draw? That's actually a good question. I think he lost. I think he lost.

[Joe Rogan]

I think he lost too.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Either way, Islam keeps the title. Was it a draw? Why do I think it was a draw?

[Daniel Cormier]

Maybe one judge had it a draw.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe something like that. So super close fight with the pound for pound, best fighter in the world. Ten pounds up. Everybody's like, volk might be the best pound for pound fighter in the world. And then he takes that fight on 10 days notice, gets head kicked and then he comes into the fight with Toporia, what, four months later or something like that, Compromised, clearly. You got head kicked, shin to the dome, stopped unconscious. And then you've got to fight the scariest boxer in the division and you get knocked out, you know, so then this big slide and then he comes back full year off, and you see against Diego Lopez. Looks like the Volk of old. Looks like he's back. Well, I would like to have seen that. Volk versus Ilya. Yeah, that would have been an exciting fight. This one was the decision. Second one was. Yeah, ko. Okay, so it was a decision. Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

I feel like the casuals like to exist in a world where, oh, no. If you're a. If you're a better fighter, then you're just a better fighter. But it's like, no, man. Like, if I have three months to train versus two weeks to train, like, different. That's giant difference.

[Joe Rogan]

Giant.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, giant. I don't use ins. This isn't as in.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it?

[Daniel Cormier]

I just don't want. It's like I just started taking them. They're called. They're like. They have 50 milligrams of caffeine in them. They're called Nzes.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, I've taken those. Those are good. Yeah, I like those. I like those. They're brain stimulants.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I got a one car that I got that I bought called Alpha. That's pretty good. Although I did kind of get a little annoyed that they ripped off Alpha Brain. It's. You know, I like these. These are great too, these gummies. These Alpha Brain gummies are awesome.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I don't do caffeine anymore. That's like, one thing that I stopped. Well, I do like this amount of caffeine. I do like, 50 milligrams of that. Just 50.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay. It's like a tea, small cup of coffee.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. You know what's crazy is so I didn't drink, like, a lot of caffeine or whatever. I would drink like a coffee in the morning like normal people. But, dude, what I learned is because once I stopped, I immediately had way, way more energy. Or maybe not immediately, but like 10 days, two weeks afterwards. And you know what I looked up, bro, is that I already have, like, low iron, but I notice, or I looked up, coffee gets in the way of iron absorption.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You have low iron? Do you eat red meat?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I eat a lot. It's like a genetic thing. My mom has super low. I think it's like a ginger thing. I got, like, a fucking. Yeah, we're just bor.

[Joe Rogan]

Caffeine can inhibit iron absorption primarily due to the presence of tannins and other polyphenols in coffee.

[Daniel Cormier]

Dude, I swear, this has changed me big. So now I do the mud water stuff where I drink all the mud water. I like matcha still, so I'll still do like 50 milligrams in the morning. But, dude, the coffee, I stopped, and I immediately started feeling way better. And I don't know how many people don't know this, but this is a thing, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm a coffee junkie.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know it tastes good. I still drink decaf sometimes because I really like the taste of it.

[Joe Rogan]

I take days off of these things.

[Daniel Cormier]

Things like, what are those?

[Joe Rogan]

This is a breakers Lucy's. These are nicotine. I like them when I do podcasts. I like them before I do stand up. But I take days off because I was like, boy, am I addicted to these things. I'm sucking on these things all day long. But I took a couple days off. Like, no, I feel fine. I feel fine. But I've taken days off coffee. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

It takes like a week or so.

[Joe Rogan]

Falling asleep in the morning just like.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I. I honestly don't think everyone would have the same experience I did. I think it's because the iron thing.

[Joe Rogan]

That makes a lot of sense, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Drinking coffee and other caffeinated beverages with a meal associated with 39 to 90% reduction in iron absorption.

[Daniel Cormier]

Dude, it was great. Yeah. And so I. So this. So, bro, this is how I found out. It wasn't like I was seeking this. It was. I take a iron supplement in the morning usually because I have a little bit of low iron. And when I stopped drinking coffee, one of the signs that you. You are. You're taking too much iron is that you'll get, like, an iron metallic taste in your mouth. And so about two weeks afterwards or whenever I started tasting that taste in my mouth and I looked it up, and that's what it was. So I stopped taking the iron supplement because I was actually absorbing the iron from my food and shit. Isn't that crazy?

[Joe Rogan]

That is crazy. Fuck. I might have to try it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it was kind of rough, though.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, I bet.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it was rough. It was like I quit everything at that time just because I was, like, getting, like, my body was getting anxious. My mind is pretty much, like, stupid the whole time to life, but my body will get really. I'll just, like, notice different shit. I'LL just, like, be more tired or anxious or whatever, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you're so in tune.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A fighter is probably. Out of all the professional sports, I think a fighter probably is the most in tune with their body. Probably because there's so, like, the consequences of not being in tune are so grave like this. It's so different than any other sport.

[Daniel Cormier]

Definitely. There's a lot of ways to get hurt, and we have to watch what we actually eat. Most sports, you don't really have to do that. That it's just right. Like, we're super. Like food. The relationship with food for a fighter is way, way different than, I think almost everyone else on the planet.

[Joe Rogan]

I know when you, like. Adesanya never cared about his nutrition, Never took care.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, there's some people.

[Joe Rogan]

Until he got older.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he got older, he realized, like, hey, I've got to really do everything.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know, dude. I used to. I used to be able to just down a chipotle burrito with all the hot sauce on it and then just train afterwards like it was nothing. And now I can't do that, which kind of sucks.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's also youth. God, to be young. When you're really young, you can get away with anything.

[Daniel Cormier]

You really can.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

I used to just be hungover, rolling in and just fight hard.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy how much you can get away with when you're young.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

This episode is brought to you by Visible is your wireless. Full of stuff you didn't sign up for, don't need, or don't understand. Visible gives you everything you want from wireless and nothing you don't. No confusing plans, no hidden fees, no family plan needed to save. Just wireless with unlimited data for a low flat rate. Sound good? Then Visible is for you. It's so simple. You get unlimited data, talk, text, and hotspot all by Verizon's 5G network. And it's an all digital wireless service. So you can bring the phone you have, then activate and manage your plan in the app, on your phone or online. And for a limited time, use the code Rogan to get visible for $20 a month guaranteed for one year. Don't wait. Switch to Visible with the code Rogan and save on wireless terms. Apply $20 per month on the Visible plan. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by Gold Belly. Gold Belly will ship you the most insane dude foods from all across the country. You got to try the ribs from Terry Blacks in Austin. Massive juicy beef Ribs that take a day to cook and you just. Just sink your teeth into them. Gold Belly will ship them to you anywhere. And you've heard me talk about Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles from la, man. Now you don't have to sit in LA traffic to get some of that chicken. Just order on Gold Belly. So ship dad something awesome. From the most iconic restaurants across the USA, go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with the promo code Rogan. That's Goldbelly.com promo code Rogan. But it's like the. The other thing is like hard training for long, prolonged periods. Years and years and years. You get all these little micro injuries, those little things. Things are slowing down. You're just demanding so much of your body. If you're not taking care of your nutrition, it's like, are you serious about this or not?

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, what are you doing? You were six hours in the gym and then you're eating pizza.

[Daniel Cormier]

The.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Daniel Cormier]

I see people up their weight cuts all the time just because after they cut weight they want to eat like an asshole. And I'm like, what are you doing, dude? You literally did. For eight weeks, you were the most disciplined person in the world, and now you're eating cake the night before the fight. You're an idiot.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, so dumb. Cake the night before a fight. It's so crazy. Ilya. Famously, he said he only did it twice, but he was. And they made it seem like in the countdown shows that he did it a lot. He would drink wine while he was weight code sweating.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. The whole time I was watching that, I was like, he doesn't do that every time. I was like, come on, this is like media stuff, you know? I was like, you're not convincing me that he does that, you know, did.

[Joe Rogan]

It twice, he said. And he said. But I was like, what am I doing?

[Daniel Cormier]

Sounds fun. But you got drunk as off of one glass of wine, which is probably pretty awesome. And you were probably. It probably tasted so good too, being that dehydrated.

[Joe Rogan]

And then you're dehydrating yourself more because of the wine, so probably aids a little bit in the water cup cut because it does dehydrate you. Yeah, but then that hangover when you got no water in your body.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I don't with hangovers anymore, dude. That's why I stopped drinking.

[Joe Rogan]

I stopped drinking. I guess it's like close to four months ago. And I used to have days where I would get, you know, I'd work at the club, do stand up, have a couple drinks, and the next day I'd be working out, going, oh, yeah. Why did I feel bad? I was like, that's just life.

[Daniel Cormier]

Life.

[Joe Rogan]

Just deal with it. Drink your electrolytes, get through it. I have no days like that. Now. That's nuts. Like, even if, like, last night I only had, like, five hours sleep, but I worked out this morning, I feel great. Like, I'm. All the bad days have gone away. It's kind of like I'm like, you moron.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I know. Poisoning yourself for decades how I feel, too. I'm like, so now I'll still go out and, like, do social shit and just not drink. I'm like, this is just as fun, you idiot. I know. I was like, you could have just been doing this the whole time.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. That's the thing is, like, I thought you missed. Like, I remember Boss Rutten telling me that. That I quit drinking. Enough. Just as much fun. I'm like, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just as much fun.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's true. It's like, you're having fun because you're with fun people.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you just haven't. Laughs. You don't have to be drunk to have fun.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Unless you were me in college.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

A little bit. I think that part. I think a big piece of me thinking drinking was fun is because I would just do really stupid, crazy shit, and so would my friends. And then we'd just talk about it the next day, like, hey, that was so stupid and crazy. You know? But now that I don't do any of that stuff, I'm like, this isn't fun anymore.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Professional athlete, too. You like, this is just not good for you.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's punishing yourself.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. At this age, unfortunately. They told me my whole life it was gonna happen, and now it's happening.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's just becoming wiser, too, you know? That's why, like, I. When you see that Jon Jones thing, I'm so sure. You saw the police cam. Did you see that?

[Daniel Cormier]

I did. Recently. I didn't know if it was old or.

[Joe Rogan]

No, it's the new one.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, this week.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's a new one. He's drunk, on the phone, talking to the cops, and you're like, oh, no.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I don't know the details of it. Was he driving the car?

[Joe Rogan]

Who knows? The girl in the car said he was driving. The car was wrecked and John was gone, and she ratted him out. Jon Jones did it, and then Jon's on the phone. Phone with the cops. And apparently, allegedly, he threatened the cops when he was on the phone, which is not good.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Not good.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's already got a history of running from accidents.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

I hope he gets whatever that is. I hope that he figures it out, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I hope so, too, but, you know, it is what it is.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Some people, yeah, they like riding the lightning, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

He liked riding that lightning.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And I think that's one of the things that made him so good, too, because he was so wild. He was just a wild dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, just genuinely didn't give a. And really had this ultimate confidence and so skillful and so smart. But eventually, you know, one more. One more drink and then your body's just like, not what it used to be.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And Aspinall is a beast, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I know there's a lot of questions. Never been out of the first round. A lot of questions, but never been out of the first round. Because he fucks everybody up in the first round. Like, that's a fact.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I really wanted to see that fight, but also at the same time, I kind of. I appreciate it. I forget which interview it was recently, but Jon was pretty honest in it. He was like, look, man, like, I don't want to fight up and coming tough guys. He was like, I want to fight guys with seasoned champions that have names. And I was like, that could also be interpreted as you don't really want to fight kind of the best guys that there are right now. You want to fight, like, a certain category of fighter who you're comfortable fighting, but you don't want to fight the guys that are tough and that are saying that you're going to win and that's okay. But that's essentially how I interpreted what he was saying, in different words, which I appreciated the honesty.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's also money fights, right?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because I think he's wrong, because I think Aspinall's a star. I really do.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I do, too.

[Joe Rogan]

And I don't. I think he's saying, who is he? He's not no one. And Aspinall's a star. When I get. When people ask questions to me all the time, like casuals on the street, is Jon Jones gonna fight Tom Aspinall? It's constant. That's like the constant question. To me, the real fight would have been Jon Jones versus Francis. That's the real.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

If I, like, clearly I'm not responsible for making decisions because I would Made a lot of different decisions. And I would have, like, Francis, let's talk. Let's work this out. That guy's a star. Francis is the fucking scariest heavyweight of all time. Yeah, that's a star. You know, like, that guy as the heavyweight champion is so marketable. He puts people into orbit.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, he flatlined Stipe, he flatlined Alistair, he flatlines people. He's fucking terrifying. Like, that's the heavyweight champion. And for that guy to walk away from the belt and then almost beat Tyson Fury and then get knocked out by Anthony Joshua, and then to come back and destroy that dude in pfl. What's his name again? The big tall Brazilian dude that he ground and pounded into unconsciousness. Ferreira. That's right.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, okay.

[Joe Rogan]

That. That guy's.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That guy was even. Oh, yeah, yeah. Really jacked up. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's the guy that KO'd Ryan Bader in the first round. He looks phenomenal. He's terrifying. And Francis just destroyed him. Like, that's the guy. That's the guy. Like, and everybody knows that's the guy. Like, that's the fight that. That's the big fight.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's a shame when that shit happens in the sport, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

It's the worst.

[Daniel Cormier]

I hate it. I hate it. I see it happen all of the time and I. I can't help but think a lot of it is like, hopefully it's just maybe money, business stuff, but I really. I think that some of it is ego. And that's kind of what I try to drift, like, just drift away from.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

My philosophy on winning the belt has always been if I can't beat whoever it is, if it's like a number 10 ranked Umar, or if it's a number two ranked whoever, if I can't beat that person, then I don't deserve the belt. And I don't think that I should get it. Like, it clearly doesn't represent what it represents if it doesn't mean that I beat all the best guys on the way to doing so.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Daniel Cormier]

Not everyone really has that philosophy. And I get it because once you start involving money and then. And money is taking care of your family, which is what, you know, is kind of an excuse to be greedy sometimes for people. It just kind of. It's just never really been my philosophy. And I think that it's kind of a shame when that stuff happens because in my head, we're doing two things. We're seeing who the best fighter in the world is, and we're Getting people to watch so that the fans can appreciate something that I find to be the most loved thing in my life, next to my wife, you know, So I don't know. I think it's a shame when that shit happens, especially when it's like an ego thing. But also at the same time, I don't really think that that's too much of what Jon Jones is doing. I'm more speaking in terms of what I kind of see in other people. I think Jon Jones also has to have some level of awareness around. Tom's a young guy, and we age, you know, we age, and that's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

John's not a natural heavyweight either.

[Daniel Cormier]

That too.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, John still could make 205.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah. He. Yeah. Even in his heavyweight fight, he looked, like.

[Joe Rogan]

A little soft.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, Yeah, A little soft.

[Joe Rogan]

And like 240 and a little soft is. I mean, think about how much Pereira cuts, right? He got that weight. Like, he could still make 205 and might still be the champ at 205.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, which is kind of wild.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And Tom aspinall ain't making 205. That guy's huge.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Ngannou is not making 205. Francis would cut to get to 265. Natural.

[Daniel Cormier]

Sure.

[Joe Rogan]

Which is just bananas.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a hulking man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's a scary dude.

[Daniel Cormier]

How do people get that big?

[Joe Rogan]

Genetics, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Is that what it is?

[Joe Rogan]

Genetics? Yeah. I mean, that's just pure genetics.

[Daniel Cormier]

If I was that big, I'm playing a different sport, bro. Playing hockey. Hockey or fucking baseball or football.

[Joe Rogan]

But football, the brain damage you get in football is significantly more probably than the brain damage you get in fighting.

[Daniel Cormier]

You like hockey?

[Joe Rogan]

I do. I like watching.

[Daniel Cormier]

Hockey's pretty cool. Yeah. I like. I like hockey culture. I don't really understand the game because there's too much going on right now or, like, when it's happening. It just, like, looks like a chaotic mess sometimes to me. But I recently started watching it because the dude from the ABS I'm getting. I've been, like, seeing him at the gym a little bit. He's been training a guy named Nathan McKinnon, who's, like, one of the better guys in the league right now. I've kind of been paying a little bit of attention because me and him will chat sometimes. But, dude, hockey culture is cool. Like, when they score, they smile and cheer for a half of a second, and then they're all just like stone cold killers back again. Which I really appreciate about sports because I feel like a lot of sports have become like all of this. Top players are like, really superstar y, like, like flamboyanty.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, the thing about hockey is it's never been as popular as football.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

It's always been the steps, the stepson. It's like not quite the same. Not in the same. Like, they don't. They don't reach the same. You have a few Gretzky, you know, Bobby, or you have a few guys that become national celebrities. But for the most part, there's not like a whole ton of them that everybody the general public knows about. So because of that, they're probably a little more dedicated, a little more humble, a little more on the grind.

[Daniel Cormier]

They're cool. They're cool. To me. I really like that sport.

[Joe Rogan]

It's very athletic sport, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The amount of energy that those guys expend, the speed, they're fast. Constantly sprinting on ice, you know, and maneuvering and gliding around those blades. It's incredible to watch you like any other sports. I like soccer. I like soccer.

[Daniel Cormier]

Nice.

[Joe Rogan]

You know when I really enjoyed soccer, when I went to see a live match match, I was like, oh. And then I was talking to my friend Ed, who's one of the owners of the Austin club here, and he was explaining to me, like, this is the reason why it never becomes popular in America. They don't take commercial breaks. There's no time for a commercial break. The clock is always running.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, I never noticed.

[Joe Rogan]

And these guys. These guys have legs. They're like quarter horses. They're these huge legs and they're just running constantly. They're constantly sprinting. They have to be an insane channel.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, it's like as like someone who's appreciates athletic performance, like, this is a crazy sport. Like, a really demanding sport.

[Daniel Cormier]

How many miles do you think they run every game?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

At least four or five.

[Joe Rogan]

Has to be. They're constantly running. It's like seven to nine, usually seven to nine miles every camp. That's bananas. And they're not jogging. Yeah, they're fucking sprinting. Seven to nine miles, which is when.

[Daniel Cormier]

I did that time in the Netherlands that I was talking about. I grew up playing soccer a little bit too, but I only did it until, like, people stopped thinking it was cool. And then I, like, switched. Switched sports. I was like, dude, when you're growing up, bro, all of the goal is just to not be called gay. And soccer didn't do that for you, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

So true.

[Daniel Cormier]

But just Your entire existence as a kid is to not be made fun of and called gay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You were a dork if you played soccer.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, but. Oh, dude, when I went to the Netherlands and I watched some of those kids play, I was like, oh, this is soccer in Europe. Because they were like, 10, 11, 12 year old kids. Just freaks, dude. And, like, crazy athletic. You could just tell that that's, like, what they do with their entire lives. And I was like, thank God I didn't choose that sport because I just wouldn't be anywhere.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, you'd have to go overseas.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And then the competitiveness of the soccer over there or the football, what they call it over there, is so much higher than in America. You probably. It would probably be a long adjustment to reach their level.

[Daniel Cormier]

Have you ever been to a game where there's all of the SWAT people and shit because the hooligans and stuff?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I've only been to the Austin games. It's pretty chill.

[Daniel Cormier]

I went to one in Serbia where they had more SWAT police officers than there were people in the actual stand. Dude, it was wild. I was like, dude, Serbia is more developed than this, man. Like, people were climbing on stuff, throwing smoke bombs onto the field. I was like, bro, this can't be Serbian basketball. Yeah, they're good at basketball.

[Joe Rogan]

We played some clips of basketball games in Serbia.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You see the crowd in Serbia, they go hard.

[Daniel Cormier]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

They. The. The cheering is, like. It gives you goosebumps. Like, holy, man. These are warlike people. And they're. They're. They're putting that kind of the same energy to basketball.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You're like, boy, when those guys come over here, everyone's. And you're kind of seeing that now. There's a bunch of Serbian players have made their way to the United States, and those guys are badass.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. They're ready to fight the entire time, probably.

[Joe Rogan]

They're scary hard dudes, man. You know, which is, like, really interesting to see this influx of, like, guys from Russia, Dagestan, Chechnya. Like, some of these guys that are making their way into the UFC now, like, with. These are fucking hard dudes, man. You know, it's really interesting.

[Daniel Cormier]

Really interesting.

[Joe Rogan]

Georgia.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it's really cool, actually. I mean, I really appreciate it, man. I think that MMA and martial arts just in general, is such a fantastic thing for the world. And this, to me, has brought so many people together. Kind of, like, I didn't follow. I didn't know what Dagestan was or Azerbaijan was or anything like that. It was 2014, so. So, you know, WKA the organization. I did their national tournament, and if you win, you get to go do the world tournament for them in Italy. So I got to do that and won. And when I was out there, a lot of the competitors were from all over the world, and there was a place called Azerbaijan that I didn't know how to pronounce at all. And they were whooping guys asses, dude. Like, bad. Like, spinning hook kicks, like all kinds of crazy shit. And I was like, damn, I hope I don't fight one of those guys bad. But the entire time, I was like, the second these guys start getting into the UFC and stuff, they're gonna wreck a lot of Americans, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

But I really like that, like, just the UFC in general has done a good job, in my opinion, because they're really the only globalized, or one of the only super globalized, where people from all over the world are fighting each other kind of. I don't know, man. It kind of feels like it brings everyone together, or at least for me, like, I could feel like I could walk into another country and have something. Something super in common with someone, which is just like a cool feeling, you know?

[Joe Rogan]

I think another thing that's really cool about it is when someone is elite, no one cares what country they from. They just love that guy, you know? It's like if. If Adesanya gets in there, no one cares. He's from New Zealand. Everybody gets pumped. If Pereira gets in there, it's Alex Pereira's fighting. You don't say a usa. No. They just psych to see Alex. Alex Pereira.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, so it's. It's. It's really great in that regard that you can become a true international superstar and you're embraced essentially by all the.

[Daniel Cormier]

Nations, definitely by America. I think that that's a big American culture thing, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Daniel Cormier]

Like, we don't really care where people are from.

[Joe Rogan]

Think about the Russians that are over here. They don't. No one cares.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

No one's like, oh, Russians, you.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, they're like, oh, that guy's badass.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I wonder if it'd be the same in those other countries.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think so. So. Yeah, I bet not.

[Daniel Cormier]

Russia definitely doesn't think I'm as cool as I think they're cool.

[Joe Rogan]

If I went over to Russia, I'd be, like, super worried they'd poison my food, you know, like some crazy Russian like him, look this guy, you know, and throw something in your tea. Who knows? You know? Like, they're. They're hardcore. It's like America embraces, but we're a melting pot. Right. That's the difference between this country and all the other countries is that we are consistent entirely of immigrants. At one point in time, everyone, unless you're a Native American, everyone was an immigrant.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So it's like we kind of accept that people come from different parts of the world.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. About 300 years ago, we were all like, let's go to this party. I know I can party over there, man. We could do whatever we want over there. We don't gotta do all this bullshit that we got going on here.

[Joe Rogan]

It's kind of nutty in that regard. And, you know, and, boy, it's worked out.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of ways.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I'm not really, like. I try not to be, like, too identified with anything or whatever or, like, be too nationalist, but every time I think of, like, just how lucky we are to be from here, dude, it's pretty cool.

[Joe Rogan]

It's pretty amazing.

[Daniel Cormier]

It is. Especially when you see stuff like that's going on with Israel and Iran and all of that stuff. It's kind of like, God, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Thank God we're here in the uk. People are getting arrested for Facebook posts.

[Daniel Cormier]

Are they?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, thousands.

[Daniel Cormier]

They still use Facebook. Fucking users. What the fuck they doing using Facebook? That's how, you know it's a political thing. It's all those old people.

[Joe Rogan]

Old people.

[Daniel Cormier]

Old people on Facebook.

[Joe Rogan]

All my old friends from high school, like, my old friends that I was friends with when I was, like, really young. They are. They're on Facebook.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Old dudes love Facebook.

[Daniel Cormier]

My mom and dad are on Facebook.

[Joe Rogan]

They argue about politics on Facebook. Like, fucking miss me with that shit.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. They post about which neighbors. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I got zero time for any of that stupidity. But this, you know, this thing that we've done over here is allowing people to express themselves, whether you agree or disagree, that is just so gigantic. And what. They're squashing a lot of that in other countries, and that scares the shit out of me. That's what I was really scared about in this last election because. Because I'm friends with Elon. I knew what was going on in Twitter behind the scenes. I knew how the government was stepping in and silencing posts. And, like, this is fucking dangerous, man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because if they. They get a real grip on social media and you no longer can protest about things and express yourself about things, including a lot of things that happen to be true. Like, during the COVID crisis, you people are getting their accounts banned for posting factual information. Yeah, that, that was scary to me because that's very, very un American.

[Daniel Cormier]

You have to be okay with that for all the good and the bad that comes with it. Like, you just have to, you have.

[Joe Rogan]

To be okay with like the good people saying things that you don't like.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's gonna come with a lot of good and a lot of bad, but you get, you have to be okay with it because when it's your turn at plate, like, you're going to want to be, you're going to want to have your opinion respected too, 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's what people have to realize when it's so easy, when like, especially in this country, all tech is primarily left. And they have a very strong ideology, this very progressive left wing ideology, which is like all over the tech world. And when they were in control and they were silencing things, I think the attitude was, was this is good because we're right and we need to stop these fascists or whatever we want to call them, you know, and. But the problem is then what if the right gets in place and they use the same rules that you used on them? Now we don't have a country anymore. Now we're, now we're just like every other dictatorship.

[Daniel Cormier]

I don't really know how you solve it. I've kind of thought about like, how to like get to a place where there can be world peace and all of that stuff. I don't know. I think that a lot of people I know you've talked about it a lot, they get really attached to the egos and the identities that exist inside them and then they see the world from only that perspective. That's why I think that like a lot of the old religions and the old, like echoed through time ways of being are to, you know, destroy your ego, eliminate yourself, be like this watcher of your thoughts and all of that stuff and then start to identify with the watcher of what you think that you really are. And then once you spend enough time doing that, you'll spend enough time realizing that everyone else has that watcher inside them and that maybe they don't realize it yet, but they're still really connected to their egos that are really just a bunch of ideas that were indoctrinated to them based off of our environment or who we grew up with and all of that stuff. And then you can start to love people a little bit more and absolutely, it's kind of A shame that I just know that that's not super big in the West. That idea just, it's kind of an eastern philosophy, you know, like being like, we just meditate here. Like that's just such a, like a bitch ass way to think about doing it. Like that's what you're doing is you're settling into being able to watch what you think you really are and be like, hey, if I don't want to be that anymore, I don't have to be that. Or if that doesn't serve me anymore, I don't have to be that. This is one thing that I walk through a lot of my guys with in fighting is it's like you want to not be scared of something. Don't desire anything and don't be anything if you don't want to be scared. Because fighting fearless is a really big thing. I think that I do a really good job of performing really well because I'm not scared of a lot of things because I don't have a ton of egos inside of my brain as much anymore. I of course do because we all have to. But. But yeah, once you start spending a lot of time with that watcher, you'll. I think that that's kind of why it always ends on the idea of love being. The answer is because once you spend time disconnecting from what we think we are, it can. You always end up in the spot where it's like, oh, that person's. That they just haven't figured it out yet either. And I love them for that still.

[Joe Rogan]

And that acceptance and love is empowering both to you and to them. Whereas like hate of other people, I mean, it might motivate you in some way, but it's also crippling, you know, what is that old expression that anger is the, is the emotion that poisons the vessel that holds it. You're wasting energy, you're wasting life and you're wasting your potential because you're thinking only in terms of negative all the time. And negative is never constructed. Yeah, you don't have to, you don't have to think like that to be successful or to be competitive or in any way. You can be empty.

[Daniel Cormier]

There's. Yeah, there's a lot of energies in life that will serve you. I think up to a certain point that just will stop serving you because it's just not, it's not a fuel that you can sustain for long enough, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you develop this philosophy from reading? Did you? Were you taught it, like, how did.

[Daniel Cormier]

You fuckload of mushrooms. Mushrooms.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Daniel Cormier]

Not a ton.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you kidding?

[Daniel Cormier]

Not a ton.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I think that's the answer when you were asking me what's the answer to world peace. It might be that.

[Daniel Cormier]

It might be, because, I mean, that definitely rips you out of your body and fucking scares the shit out of you sometimes, but humbles you. Yeah, it does. Yeah. No, it's a lot of reading. It's a lot of, like. I've been fascinated by religion my entire life. I was raised pretty. Not like, crazy, not, like religious in, like, a dogmatic way, but religious in like a, hey, think about these things, type of way by my parents, but which I'm really grateful because I developed a super healthy understanding of those types of ideas where they didn't feel like they were something I was latched onto as much as they were things to be explored. And so it kind of started when I was really young. I just been fascinated by the idea of God. Like in church, when they're like, hey, you're gonna burn in hell forever if you don't agree with this. That became number one priority from that day on. Dude, I was like, hell. Once I could understand hell and fore. I was like, that's a little. Okay. I was like, oh, okay. So nothing else matters in life. Like, we gotta figure this out right now. So that kind of took me on, like, a really religious thing. And then after I lost my first fight, that was my big first experience with facing an ego that I didn't have control over. When was your first loss? It was against a guy named Jamal Emers, who's actually in the UFC now, but it was pretty much just I the bed and choked. I would have got signed to the ufc and I just choked and lost. And I was supposed to, in my head and based off of what everyone around me was telling me, I was supposed to be this, like, super big prospect guy, blah, blah, blah. After I lost, I had to face that. Maybe that's not what I am.

[Joe Rogan]

When you say choked, like, what about your performance do you think went wrong?

[Daniel Cormier]

I just didn't show up, like, the way. I mean, I was five and, oh, I was still really new to the. You know, being a professional and being able to perform under high stakes. If I would have won, I think I for sure would have gotten signed to the UFC just because I had been training with tj. My word was around them a lot. It was back to when you didn't have to get signed by the contender or anything. They just Would call you up on a day, but you kind of had to have a little bit of it in or be doing really well or something. So. Yeah, so that was like, my first big experience with that. I spent about that entire summer as much as I could in the mountains. I didn't even really train because I didn't even know if that's something that I wanted to continue doing, just because losing hurt my heart so bad.

[Joe Rogan]

How did you lose?

[Daniel Cormier]

Just a decision, dude. It wasn't even, like, gnarly. It was just, like, afterwards, I was like. But I was supposed to win. It's like, someone fucked up here, man. I was supposed to win that. And so it's just like, oh, so maybe this universe doesn't revolve around me and, like, my ideas and who I think I am and all of that stuff. And then so spent a lot of time in nature, Read a lot of books. Like Power Now. A lot of Buddhist stuff, a lot of Thich Nhat Hanh stuff, a lot of just spirituality books. But just the overarching idea of separating yourself from your thoughts and your body and all of that stuff. And just whether it's in our imagination or not. Because I'm still not fully bought into any of that stuff. Like, I don't have any beliefs, is what I say now. But I'm willing to entertain a lot of stuff, and I want to believe something really bad because it would make life a lot easier to, like, navigate.

[Joe Rogan]

Through exactly the same way.

[Daniel Cormier]

Dude, it'd be so much easier if.

[Joe Rogan]

I said, someone come up with a great cult.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Come up with a really great call. I'll join.

[Daniel Cormier]

I'll come up with one.

[Joe Rogan]

If you, like, have, like, a really benevolent leader that really is an actual real guru and it makes sense. And no one's everybody.

[Daniel Cormier]

I was gonna say, are we allowing everyone to have sex with each other? No.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, it's not.

[Daniel Cormier]

That might be a deal breaker.

[Joe Rogan]

The leader gets to everybody.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The leader gets to everybody. And he wants your money.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But if that could be avoided. But it would just make things easier. But it really wouldn't. You're better off without a real belief system. But sort of entertaining a lot of belief systems.

[Daniel Cormier]

I kind of land on this idea of. So I've been trying to write a comic book for the last couple years.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I know writing's a little gay or whatever, but that's where I spend a lot of money. It's gay to some people, but it's like poetry. Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

They're Gay. If you're afraid of writing, you're gay.

[Daniel Cormier]

So I spend a lot of time writing. It's like what I do with my free time instead of golfing. But what kind of write?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, how do you write?

[Daniel Cormier]

Well, for the last couple years, it's been trying to write a pretty in depth comic book, which has been really fun.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you a comic book fan?

[Daniel Cormier]

I'm a comic book fan. But honestly, dude, how it happened is I was like, I wanted to come up with this really cool story. I'm just an idea machine. Like, I just think of ideas all day. Like, I don't have many hobbies. I think it's super fun, just me hanging out with me inside my head all day. So I. That's cool. Yeah, I came up with this really cool idea, which is essentially like a bunch of ideas from a bunch of religions that I really like, and then putting them into a story and the story is. Okay, we got some time for me to explain this.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure, sure.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay. I think it's pretty interesting, but I haven't really, like, broken it down from start to finish, really. But I got into writing just because I wanted to make this story of mine. Oh, that's what you asked me. Am I into comic books? I tried writing a sentence, like, it started out in the August 5th of 2000, and I was like, fuck this, dude. We're doing a comic. I can't write sentences. And I read good books, so I, like, know what a good sentence is. And I was like, oh, no, that's gonna take way too long. We're doing only dialogue and pictures. And so that why I started doing comic books. Although I do really like comic books too. But. Yeah, so it's kind of this. It's like a compilation of a lot of ideas that I like about religion inside of this world that exists today. I actually put a conversation between you and Duncan Trussell in it. I'm not gonna do anything with the comic book. So it's really fun, like, to know that I just have fun doing it. Like, I'm not.

[Joe Rogan]

You don't plan on publishing it?

[Daniel Cormier]

Maybe. But I think honestly, it would take like another two, three years for it to be super solid enough for me to want to put out there. But there's a dialogue between you and Duncan Trussell. I really love Duncan Trussell. He's like, one of my favorite people of all time. I got to meet him at the Comedy Works in Denver pretty recently.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the best.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, he's really cool.

[Joe Rogan]

I love that guy.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. But pretty much it takes place where this guy goes to the Garden of Eden that's being protected by these tribes people. And inside of the Garden of Eden are these trees called kalis, where when you eat the fruit of them or you eat the crystals of them, you get teleported to a place where the sixth lives. And the sixth is like the God of our universe. The world takes place in densities which are pretty much our chakras. So there's seven of them. The first density, second density, third density, which is what we are as human. The fourth are aliens, where, like, we're humans that have merged with the technologies that we've created. It takes place about 20 or 30 years in the future where AI is a real, like, actual fucking player in the game, you know. Fourth is aliens. Fifth is like, psychedelic creatures. Slash angels, slash all of that stuff. Sixth is the gods of the universe. Seventh is the all. It's just like, love. It's everything. Everything. And so heavy.

[Joe Rogan]

Comic Book man.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it's pretty in depth, dude. I mean, it's not like simple shit. It's not like fucking some guy goes and saves the world. It's like a pretty. The lore of it is pretty cool, I think. So you go through each density our souls do for billions and trillions. And however, whatever. Whatever's past trillions of lifetimes. And you spend time in those densities learning what it is to learn in those densities. So right now, in the third density, because it's the power chakra of life, what we're trying to do is discover that the positive path of love is what we're really shooting for instead of the negative one. And what that means is the positive path is we're doing things in service of others instead of in service of self. So we're choosing love of others over love of self because. Because love isn't like an emotion in the book. It's like a structural building of the world where everything is love. It's this all. It's not like Disney shit. It's like a structural way of building the universe. So choosing to be in love of others is what we're doing. But Earth is in its late third density, getting ready to move into its fourth density. And this scientist who interacts with this tribe takes a seed from the Kali and grows them and makes it so that the entire world can take this fruit and then interact with God. And then what it would be like in this world today if we were actually able to sit in front of God and ask God questions and that's kind of the basis of the book.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's pretty cool. Yeah, there's a lot.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you doing the illustrations?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, I called the guy about doing the illustration. I might wait till AI gets good enough because when I got. Yeah. Which we're pretty close. I I around with AI a lot too, but we're pretty close to, I think, getting there with like some apps where you can have consistent characters because it's hard to do stuff because you can't make the characters super consistent. But I think we're like a year or two away from being able to even.

[Joe Rogan]

A year or two away.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, maybe not.

[Joe Rogan]

I think we're in this very bizarre stage right now where I. I don't think people realize what's coming and I think it's going to hit us like a fucking freight train.

[Daniel Cormier]

So I know everyone has like a thousand. There's like a thousand stories about AI taking over and all of this stuff in my book. Sorry. This is okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I just know it's long and sometimes I lose track of time. Okay, cool. The AI in this story is the way that we get moved into the fourth density. And the way that we get moved into the fourth density is when we merge with the nanotechnology that merges with like the AI supercomputer called Oblivion, which is pretty much just a hive mind. Once we all get merged with that, we either based off of our polarity or our like frequency or whatever that tells us if we're positive or negative. If we go negative, then we pretty much just extinguish each other because all we care about is love for self and we like kill each other. It doesn't say exactly how, but you can use your imagination. And in the positive way, we move together in this hive mind into being aliens, essentially where we live millions and trillions of lifetimes as aliens until we can enter into the fifth, which then we become psychedelic creatures and all of that stuff or angels or whatever. And that's like a non physical realm at that point. But yeah, that's pretty much the idea behind the whole whole book.

[Joe Rogan]

It might be actually what really does happen.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's kind of like a positive spin off of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, best case scenario is we evolve and we merge with AI and we evolve and it's better for everybody and we, we become something superior to what we are now. Worst case scenario is we become irrelevant because they don't need us anymore. Yeah, we're outdated.

[Daniel Cormier]

I still think it will still have to be partly us because it was created by us, like, in like a parallel universe where we are not, like, say we're lizard people in another universe. We see things differently, Our priorities and values are different. We would make a completely different set of AI. Like, there's no way that AI is just this thing that isn't connected to humans in some way. So hopefully it's connected to the good parts of us as humans, which is like compassion, love of caring for each other. And not like a lizard reptilian, like, hey, let's just. We gotta maximize capitalism and all of that stuff. You know what I mean? So that's a lot of what the book is about too, is it's just about like, hey, maybe it won't be so bad. Like, maybe this thing will have more human traits than. Or maybe we're more awesome than what we actually think, you know, I think.

[Joe Rogan]

The hive mind thing is promising. And I have a feeling that that's where we're headed. I have a feeling that if with either some wearable or some sort of technology, with an implant, where we no longer require language to communicate with each other, and we essentially have instantaneous access to everyone all the time, and the thing that people are going to have to deal with is that there's going to be no more secrets, there'll be no more lies, it's going to be impossible to deceive. Everyone's going to know exactly what's going on in your school soul, like how you interface with the world itself.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

I think that's probably where we're headed. I think if we don't, we're gonna. We're gonna become obsolete. I think it's one of two things. Either we become obsolete and AI becomes a new digital form of life that's far more intelligent, far more capable than we are. And then it makes better and better versions of itself until it makes God. Or we merge and we. We just transcend whatever this state of being. These primitive territorial apes with very sophisticated weapons. We become something, something different.

[Daniel Cormier]

If I did have beliefs, I would like to believe that it is going towards a God or something, or there is, like, some point to all of the, like, hard times that we have in life. And we're actually progressing, whether it be through many lifetimes or in other universes or dimensions or whatever, and something inside of us that isn't human but is maybe a watcher or something, is progressing towards something great and loving and more beautiful than what we got going on here on Earth. And if that is true, then AI will probably be pretty awesome if that is true.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's best case scenario, right? I think it's also very strange that we are in this position. It's very strange that we are living our lives at this unbelievable, unique moment in history. History where things are going to change in this undeniably radical way. Unless something happens, unless we blow ourselves up or get hit by an asteroid, it's gonna happen. And it's gonna happen probably within the next 10 years. Like, 10 years from now, we're gonna be looking back. Remember the old days of 2025 when you didn't know what was coming?

[Daniel Cormier]

I know. You know, I. I want to be like, hey, you're over exaggerating that. But dude, if you think about the world five years ago, it was completely different.

[Joe Rogan]

Completely. Just a vention of AI.

[Daniel Cormier]

AI wasn't a thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Years? Yeah, just years.

[Daniel Cormier]

We're all like bunker down in our house and shit. Five years ago. Well, even the UFC five years ago was crazy. Like, life. Like, I only get to view life through the lens of my, like, job and my love, which is through fighting. Which is cool because it, like, helps me understand the macro picture a little bit better. But yeah, man. I mean, like, even just five years ago, how different the UFC was. Like, life is going to be really weird in 10 years.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's. The whole world is going to be really weird. And, you know, one of the things that always freaks me out about Elon in Neuralink is one of the statements that he said, you're gonna be able to talk without using words.

[Daniel Cormier]

Mm. Don't know how that would work.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the hive mind. Yeah, we're gonna be able to interact with each other.

[Daniel Cormier]

But do. But do we just feel each other's feelings then?

[Joe Rogan]

Probably, yeah. Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Or that would be good, maybe. Yeah, that would be good. If it's like. If I don't have like a filter of. Of feeling something, my brain making it into words and then spitting it out. And it was just, I have this feeling, and you feel that thing. That might be a really great thing.

[Joe Rogan]

I've often thought about the parallels of religion with what's currently going on. And one of them being like, Christ was born of a virgin mother. Right. So Christ was born without sex and emerged like, what else is born without a. Without a mother. Mother. AI. AI is born without a mother. Christ is going to come back. AI is coming. Another one is the Tower of Babel.

[Daniel Cormier]

Did you come up with that? That's fucking awesome, right?

[Joe Rogan]

It seems like it.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's awesome, right?

[Joe Rogan]

If you, if you think that God is going to return, well, wouldn't it be? That completely makes sense.

[Daniel Cormier]

That's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

The other one is the Tower of Babel. Right. So we, if we all have a universal language, language, and we are working on this tower to get closer to.

[Daniel Cormier]

God, the stairway to God.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's do it right and you make it there, do it wrong. And it becomes completely chaotic and divided and you're scattered across the world with a thousand different fucking languages and nobody can communicate with each other, so nobody understand each other. And it's just chaos, which is what happened to the human race. If we develop a universal language, and if this universal language is transformed through whether it's this implant or wearable, some sort of interface with technology, then we bypass. We bypass this primitive state of, you know, chaotic tribal monkeys and we become something superior.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yep. That's awesome. Yeah. The Tower of Babel was initially in my story because I've loved that idea for a really long time, which is essentially, it's just like a symbol for like, hey, if we all work together, we can actually do this thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Daniel Cormier]

Which is kind of the main idea that I got from, from it. Yeah, dude, that's a, that's a cool ass idea about AI. I'm gonna put that in my book. I'm gonna steal that idea. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because if you think about it, what, what, what is AI going to be? Well, if super intelligence gets achieved and then you're attaching that to quantum computing. Right. Quantum computing right now is only able to just like do integers and you know, do, do equations. But what if quantum computing and AI merge? Then you've got some insane amount of computational power attached to an insane intelligence that is going to make better and better versions of itself. Well, if you scale that up exponentially, 10, 20, 30, 50, 100, a thousand years, if you keep going, you get a God.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah. I mean, imagine, I mean, quantum imagine too. I mean, who knows, like if we want to go real sci fi with the idea, like quantum particles communicate to each other, so maybe they'll be able to communicate with the ones that are in other dimensions and that's how we're able to communicate with other dimensions or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, that's the freakiest concept about quantum computing. When they said that the way it works is so confusing and it's so powerful that they think it might be evidence of the multiverse.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Now, I talked to Roman Yampolsky, who's a scientist who talks about, about the dangers of AI and he thought that that was all nonsense. He might be right. But there's a lot of scientists that believe that it's correct and that this is why quantum computing is so powerful. Because Marc Andreessen said this, and it's the fucking craziest quote ever. That quantum computing, it can solve an equation that if you converted the entire universe, like every molecule, every atom of the universe into a supercomputer, it would take so long for the universe as a supercomputer to solve this. This problem that the universe would die of heat death before it solved it. And quantum computing can solve it in minutes.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I've seen that Instagram reel.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, what the does that mean?

[Daniel Cormier]

Essentially, what we would be doing. I bet you when they were trying to invent electricity, they didn't know that it would be this. And maybe that's what we're in the middle of, except, like, time times a thousand billion, where it's like, oh. Because I always think I'm like, we got. We're only looking through the lens of the future, through all of the inventions that we have now. What if we invented something that was like, electricity or quantum computing or quantum communication or, like, if you can change things at a quantum level, like, maybe I can turn this thing into the hardest steel metal in the entire world. And then that just completely changes the board game that we're even playing. Like, we're not even playing the same board game anymore, Right? So it's like, I don't know. Anytime anyone says nothing's possible, I'm like, you sure? Because if we just change the board game, shit can get pretty crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't say nothing's possible because everything that we have today is impossible 200 years ago. Yeah, you're a sorcerer. If you go back to the 1400s and show them an iPhone, you know, like this. None of. None of it makes any sense. The fact that you could FaceTime someone in New Zealand right now, that's bananas. All that stuff is completely insane. And it's real and it's happening right now. And the other thing about AI being if artificial super intelligence creates something that we can't even imagine, like, we're just dealing with this framework, this structure that's so antiquated because it's all been created by humans. Humans. If you get something that's a thousand, ten thousand times more intelligent than us, and it's going to have solutions to things that we can't even comprehend.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's freaky.

[Joe Rogan]

Could get real weird. You know, one of the things that Always weirded me out about these stories about UFO encounters. And in particular the, the Bob Lazar story is that when he was working on back engineering these crafts that were supposedly from somewhere else, one of the things that he said is there's no control controls. There's no controls in this thing. Like they. They don't know what is happening between these beings and this craft that they power it. But they're probably completely connected to this thing. They're pro. Like what you're seeing with those, those little grays is probably us in the future. That's probably what every primate eventually becomes once it integrates with technology.

[Daniel Cormier]

It would be really cool. Cool if that's like you said, what the religions were talking about too. Like, to me the science is all cool and stuff, but I also like the idea of like intertwining like science, modern ideas with really traditional ideas. It would be super cool if it was something where it's like, hey, like once we reach this certain of technological advancement, there is a spiritual religious side to the thing that we also make discoveries in too. That would be cool. It would be cool to have a belief.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you got. Well, you know, if artificial superintelligence does become live, all belief systems are going to get thrown into the wood chipper. We're not going to know what the.

[Daniel Cormier]

Fuck is what unless it tells us.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, but I have a feeling that a lot of these stories, like these ancient religious stories, they're based on truth. It's just truth that was a spoken word thing by people who really couldn't even read because they were illiterate and they had these tales that were. They're told for a thousand years before anybody wrote them down. They're writing them down in these ancient languages that even when you take those ancient languages and you try to translate into like modern English, a lot is lost in the translation. But I think there's something to all of it. There's something they're trying. They're not telling stories for no reason. I think they're telling these stories because they're trying to document something and I just don't think we get a full picture of it. But there's so much truth in those stories and there's so many lessons in those stories. Stories that are applicable and that resonate today. I think it'd be foolish to dismiss them, definitely.

[Daniel Cormier]

I mean, Carl Jung harps on that a lot with the collective unconscious stuff. Do you know Joseph Campbell? Do you follow that guy? I love Joseph Campbell.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, he's Amazing.

[Daniel Cormier]

I got super into Joseph Campbell around that time when I was kind of, you know, doing the whole figuring myself out part after losing. But I mean, the idea that there's pretty much a blueprint to all of the stories that are across civilization is crazy. It's like the pyramids being everywhere. Like, it's just naturally ingrained to us for stories to be like, superhero gets called to action, finds a guy, beats monster, beats Mega Big Monster returns back home. Like, that's like the blueprint to a lot of stories. And I think it just goes underneath the rug because we're just so used to all of the stories being like that. I've messed around. Like I said, like, I spend a lot of time in my head. I don't really, like, talk a ton. I kind of just. But I've done the whole, like, hero's journey thing in my head during the Joseph Campbell time. I could share with you. It's kind of fun.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Daniel Cormier]

Okay. I just come up with stories and shit in my head. But anyways, so I did my own hero's journey during that time when I was trying to eliminate all of the egos inside of me. And the easiest way to identify one of your egos is to ask yourself, what is it that you feel like you desire? You know, that's why I think in Buddhist philosophy and all of that stuff, it's always like, let go of attachments, let go of your desires, and that will lead. Like, just good shit will happen if you do that. And I was like, okay, cool, I'll buy into that a little bit. So I tried to identify all of these egos that were inside of me. I even went as far as naming all of them and giving them characteristics and personalities. Like, when I would notice an angry person inside of me, I would just name it Samson, give it a tiger's face, and, like, just treat it as a completely separate, imaginative piece of my psyche that I no longer wanted to be attached with anymore. Which is an idea that I came up with myself at the time. But it's an old idea. There's a really good book called Taming youg Gremlins. If anyone wants to look into that idea more. That guy does a really good job of doing that. So anyways, I started going through, like, my hero's journey. And I spend a lot of time, like, meditating a decent amount, but not just, like, normal meditating, like, fucking around in my own head type of meditating and just seeing what type of unconscious things are kind of below the surface of My everyday, like, Corey me. And so. So I'm walking myself through, like, okay, what is this? What are all of these things inside me? Or what are these desires that are inside me? I would name them, I would turn them into a monster, and I would kill the monster. And then at the very end of this story, and I'm like crying during this process when I was doing it or whatever. In the hero's journey, a lot of the time you have a mentor, like a Yoda. You have this thing that kind of guides you through how to defeat all these monsters and all of it. So I get to the end of my story and one part that they never really bring up in heroic stories is the return back home, which is a really big deal. Like, you've just eliminated all of this stuff and now you got to return back home. So I'm getting ready to return back home. And my mentor at the time, because I did grow up really religious, it was Jesus at the time where, like, Jesus was my homie at the time, you know, he was like this guy. And so we get done defeating all of these monsters and we're sitting at the cliff and it's like, okay, time to go home. And he's like, hey, man, like, you got one more monster to defeat. And I was like, well, what is it? And he was like, me? And I was like, what are you talking about? And he was like, man, like, I'm the last thing that you're attached to. Like, in order for you to continue on, I'm the thing that you got to defeat. And I was like, well, what does that mean, dude, I'm not about to stab you, bro. You know? And he was like, you have to push me. And I was like, push you off the cliff. He was like, you have to let go of me the same way that you let go of all of your other desires and fears and things inside of you too, if you really want to do it. And so I'm like, balling crying because that's. That was like a big. Like, that was a big thing. So I do it and Jesus falls. But then he grows wings, flies away, and says to me, now you can be like me. And then just flies off into the whatever. And then I return back home and I just remember that being a really big moment for me in my. I don't like to use the word spiritual because it sounds stupid. Stupid, but that was like a big deal for me in my development as a person because it really, like, made me understand and they weren't things that I was planning out. They were just unconscious things that were hitting me, like, over and over and over again. I found that through hypnosis and through, like, trying to see what's underneath things. You can't talk to it, you can't tell it what to do. You can't control your unconscious. You just have to watch what's underneath there. So it's just like a thing where. Where it's like, now I get to be like. You was like, a really cool thing that just, like, popped into my head. And I was like, well, shit, that's cool.

[Joe Rogan]

That is cool.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I do a lot of crazy shit inside of my own head, I guess. Probably makes me sound maybe a little bit weird, but that's kind of weird's good. That's me. Yeah, word is good.

[Joe Rogan]

What was it like returning to fighting after this? Like, trying to find yourself, period?

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, I remember I was folding laundry and they asked me to fight this guy Tejino Galvano, on four weeks notice for lfa. And Tehino Gaval is a savage at the time still. Still, I think is doing pretty well. But literally every YouTube video I could find of him was just knocking people out. He was like 60 or something and just murdering people. Brazilian guy. And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. Like, I just lost. I don't really want to lose again. And I remember going back and forth with my. Myself, big time. And as I was folding laundry, I kind of got hit with another bit of wisdom that came from wherever, not from myself, came from wherever. And in this bit of wisdom, it told me, man, I gave you this life for you to make it up yourself. Quit asking me to make decisions for you. And so I was like, all right, fuck it, I'll do it. You know, I'll do it. And a big piece of me going through that whole thing and what I learned a lot about it was love of fighting isn't really love of anything. I don't think is like, Disney shit. It's like a mega commitment to something that you want to achieve. And it works like a marriage. More like a marriage less than, like a romantic. Like, hey, this is a fling. Like, it's like, hey, man, I might not like you every day, you know, but I'm gonna commit myself to you and I'm gonna do this thing. And it helped me really wrap my head around what kind of true love is, because I feel like that's what true love is. And if you wanna love this sport and you want to say you love this sport. You gotta love it on the months, days, it might last years, that you really don't like it. And just trust that on the other end of it is like a good experience.

[Joe Rogan]

There's a payoff.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a process. Yeah. So how was the fight?

[Daniel Cormier]

It was good. I knocked him out in the first round. Crushed. It wasn't scared at all going in really. Oh yeah. I don't get scared much like when I'm actually fighting in that mode of, of like fight or flight. But I've already chosen fight. Like I'm good, you know. I don't really get too scared going into fights. Hardly ever I get scared leading up to things, but in the actual fight itself, like I'm the goddamn Incredible Hulk, you know. You can't convince me otherwise in those moments.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I remember one time we talked and you said that you'd made this adjustment in your head from trying to fight and win to really trying to hurt people. People. Are you still on that same?

[Daniel Cormier]

No, no, not as much. I got a little bit older. One I think is a contributor to it. Two is that wasn't a fuel that I could hold on to for super long. It was like angry fuel. Doesn't really like work. It's not super sustainable. I also found too that being that way got distracting to me, being able to do what I was trying to do. So any thought can be distracting when you're fighting as, you know, like even like silly ones or whatever. But if I'm being too aggro and too. I gotta hurt this guy, I gotta hurt this guy. That was good for me to learn because I got to learn the. All of the different aspects of what it means to be a fighter. Before that I was really Zen, peaceful, like whatever happens, happens. I'm gonna do my best, you know. And then I went way on the other side of the spectrum where it's like I'm fucking killing people. And that's what I'm doing now to now kind of somewhere a little bit in between. Where for me now all of it is about focus and doing the correct thing at the correct time. I think that where I am today as a fighter is very focused on just exactly what I said, where, what do I need to do right now in order to win. And I don't make it angry, I don't make it motivated by anything else. It's just know this is like a laser focused in doing the right thing. And that's what I found recently has been the Most helpful thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Just this Zen state of just existing in whatever, whatever comes, whatever you're supposed to be doing. You do that kind of.

[Daniel Cormier]

But I know where I'm supposed to be now a little bit too like intensity wise. Before I feel like I got like some like superpower that I like didn't really know how to control very much. Now I feel like I have harnessed it and I know how to control it a lot better. To where it's like, okay, a 10 is too much. Like right now we gotta be a seven. We're in the locker room, we're about to walk out. Let's maybe be at an 8 or a 9 right now and we'll be there for the fight instead of just 10 hurt the guy. Michael Jordan had a really good quote where it was either Michael or Kobe. But they said they never play a game at more than 80%. And I think that that's kind of a cool way to look at it. And that doesn't mean your effort. I think it means your intensity level. You can't think at a 10. Sometimes it gets distracting to burn all of that like angry energy. It's just not sustainable, you know, so.

[Joe Rogan]

So you're in a position right now where you're next in line. And when you look at Merab, he presents so many unique challenges. Challenges like this is a. He's a. There's a few guys that are very skillful, but they also have unique physicality. And that's Merab. So like when, when you see that fight, first of all, have they given you a date?

[Daniel Cormier]

They haven't. There. I think it's one. I mean that stuff takes a little bit. They told me November, December is when I'm looking at. Yeah, maybe. Which I was a little bit against too because I hate the New York State tax thing. But. But also at the same time I was in New York recently and I was like, ah, it'd be cool to win it in one of the like.

[Joe Rogan]

Iconic place to win. If you won the world title in Madison Square Garden, that means a lot.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it would mean a lot.

[Joe Rogan]

There's something about Madison Square Garden. Like when you're in the building, you're like, man, a lot of has gone down this building.

[Daniel Cormier]

It's huge. It kind of feels like a gladiator place. It's cuz it's just huge. Like the floor part is huge. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, it just feels different. I did stand up there and just being there and walking out to this enormous crowd in masses. Craig Garden I was like, whoa, cool. This is the Garden in the center of it. Yeah. In the round.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, you did it. Oh. So you were, like, looking in 360 degrees. Did you like that?

[Joe Rogan]

That's my favorite way.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

Because it's oddly intimate. So Even though there's 16,000 people, the people on this side are seeing the people laugh on this side, and everyone's seeing everyone laugh. Laugh, and you're just walking around in a circle.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, cool.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. It's oddly intimate for 16,000 people. My favorite way to do arenas, I.

[Daniel Cormier]

Was always really curious because I've seen standups like that, and I was like, I wonder if that's distracting for them to have to.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's the most fun. It's. I. I thought it would be distracting, too, because I've done arenas where you're on stage facing the crowd, and it feels oddly impersonal. It's like you're just doing a show for this massive amount of people. It's fun, but that. I kind of preferred clubs, but a giant arena in the round seems like a giant club. It really does.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like. But there's something. There's a lot of, like, doing it in Boston was huge because, like, I did the TD Garden because that was, like, where I grew up, and that's where I started doing stand up. But there's something about Madison Square Garden for fights where when you go there, it's like there's an extra tingle in the air. Like, whoo, boys, we're at the Garden.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, so you fighting Merab at the Garden would be insane.

[Daniel Cormier]

Yeah, it'd be crazy. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You think about him. What do you think about this matchup? Like, how do you approach it?

[Daniel Cormier]

I think he has some obviously really good physical traits that make him, like, his conditioning is a superpower that other people don't get to have, and that's unique to him. And he's made a way to weaponize that in a really smart way. Every time I, like, kind of to technically break down things, I feel like I'm trying to be really convincing instead of, you know, just believing in it, which has always kind of been a big problem of mine in the past. Has always been, I need evidence in order to believe in something, which kind of just. And, like, with that, in, like, fighting for a world champion, what am I going to just walk in and be like, well, I've been a world champion before, so I could do it now? Like, I don't get that luxury of doing that to be a World champion. So recently I've had this realization of belief in self that Trevor and Carrington Banks have both helped instill in me big time. Where I feel like approaching Merab is going to be unique in its own. But I don't need to tailor what it is that I'm doing too much to Merab. I've really bought into this idea where if I can go out and be the best martial artist that there is in all areas, be able to wrestle with him, be able to strike with him, be able to grapple with him, if I can go out and trust and be that I can do it against Umar, I did not as good of a job with that. I treated him like I had to change in order for me to be able to beat him against Merab, I'm not going to do that. I think Merab also has this narrative buzz around him where he's an unbeatable force, a freak of nature who has conditioning out of whatever. And while that is true to an extent, that doesn't mean anything to the fact that the guy can't be beaten. If I look at myself as a fighter and break myself down, technically, I would say I'm somewhere between Umar and Sean in the task that he'll have in front of him. I think I know that I wrestle a lot better than Sean. Don does. Although Sean does have really good takedown defense, his process of getting up is just like a little dated and pretty slow. Like you're going to lose some minutes doing it the way that o' Malley does it. I think that I get up super good being tall and lanky. It's really hard to not let short little guys get underneath you like that shit's going to happen, especially if they're springy and fast in our weight class like they're going to. You just have to be able to pop right back up immediately, which I know that I can do because. Because I fought Umar, who's easily one of the best wrestlers in the ufc, and I was able to do that whenever I wanted. So that brings me a lot of confidence about that. So I get to fight Merab with a lot of confidence going into it about that. On the striking end of things. I'm obviously, I think, a way better striker than Merab is, even though he does make his shit work the way that he makes his shit work. But I'm honestly not going to read too much into it, man. I'm to going to keep worrying about getting better every single day all the way leading up to the fight. And I'm going to make marab deal with me instead of me having to deal with murab.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you have to do anything different to deal with that endurance?

[Daniel Cormier]

I mean, man, I feel like I try to go in as every time. I feel like there is a. There's like a unique thing that you need to big time prepare for. I go in shape as best as I physically, humanly am capable of in every single fight that I go into, as long as I'm not hurt or on antibiotics and like that. So I already do that kind of. So I'm not gonna kind of overthink that piece. I might run a little bit more. I hear Marop run, so maybe I'll run a little bit more. But no, outside that. I'll make sure that my legs are really conditioned. That was a big one going against Umar. I'll obviously make sure that I'm conditioned enough to be able to get my ass back up every single time, which is its own special. Like wrestling conditioning is a much different type of conditioning than striking. So just make sure that I'm fully wrestling conditioned for that fight. And then one of the harder pieces for people in the sport is to wrestle then be able to strike like how they normally do. So just being. And just being conditioned to do that too.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I'm pumped for it. I can't wait to watch. I think you're one of the more exciting guys in the sport and one of the more interesting guys in the sport. I love listening to your thought process.

[Daniel Cormier]

Thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

Very cool.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool. Thanks.

[Joe Rogan]

Thanks for being here, man. Appreciate you very much.

[Daniel Cormier]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And again, I can't wait.

[Daniel Cormier]

Cool.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm looking forward to it.

[Daniel Cormier]

Thanks, Joe.

[Joe Rogan]

Thanks.

[Daniel Cormier]

Thanks for everything.

[Joe Rogan]

My pleasure. All right, bye everybody.

[Daniel Cormier]

Sa.