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- [00:02]
Justin Gaethje
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.
- [00:04]
Trevor Wittman
The Joe Rogan Experience.
- [00:06]
Justin Gaethje
Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.
- [00:13]
Joe Rogan
Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for being here. I couldn't wait to talk to you. Congratulations on one of the most epic accomplishments in the history of combat sports. And that's not an understatement. I mean, it might be an understatement. I mean, it's not an overstatement. It's perfect. That was one of the greatest nights I've ever experienced of watching anything in my life. It was amazing. And to have you cap it off and win the title when you're facing a guy that everybody thought was at least number two. Pound for pound, it was like him and Islam are number one and number two. And some odds had you at six to one, which I thought was very disrespectful. I thought. I thought, like, this is crazy. Like, six to one is crazy. Like, Ilya's really good, but so's Justin. This is kind of nuts like that to have you win the way you won in front of the fucking White House.
- [01:04]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [01:05]
Joe Rogan
How's it feel?
- [01:07]
Justin Gaethje
Oh, you know, it's really not real yet. I was expecting to have, like, an internal sense of relief that, like, I don't have something to chase because I was always chasing this belt. And I was expecting to wake up with, like, some kind of natural release of pressure, but I don't know, I don't feel that. I. As the days go by, every day, I feel a little bit more, a little bit more. Two days ago, my dad was like, you know, what is. What was it like waking up, being the champion? And I, like, I was like, I haven't even thought about that. And then I was, you know, on the, like, 10 minutes later, and I was sitting there thinking about it, I was like, wow, I'm the champion. Like, it's crazy. And, yeah, it's just. I mean, I've just been on the grind for so many years now. My dad dropped me off 19 years ago in Colorado. I knew nobody to wrestle. And, yeah, to see. To see where I'm at now is just absolutely incredible. I mean, there's really no way to explain how or why, you know, or like, why I deserve it or what. I mean, I worked my ass off. I have made mistakes, you know, I've done things the wrong way, but I've always corrected and got back on the path. And, you know, I think the coaches, the mentors, but mostly the coaches that I've been, you know, and the team that I have around me is a huge reason why I was able to stay on track and just keep. Keep moving forward and keep trusting that, you know, I belong in the top of the league.
- [02:41]
Joe Rogan
Well, you. You've clearly shown it throughout your career and having a great coach like Trevor. And one of the reasons why I wanted to bring in Trevor is because you guys have a very unique relationship. First of all, I love the YouTube series the Art of Violence. Fantastic. And what's great is watching you two guys work together. And Trevor, you being, like, very acutely aware of when to pull him back, when to ramp it up, when to push you guys having a relationship like that is so critical because you guys know each other so well. You've seen him perform so many times, you've seen him fight and perform in the gym that you know where he's at all the time. And having that sense of where your fighter is at any given time in camp because you know him so well. Boy, that's a giant advantage.
- [03:28]
Justin Gaethje
It is.
- [03:30]
Joe Rogan
Well, hold on,
- [03:35]
Trevor Wittman
Testes. Yeah, I think that's a huge advantage is knowing your athlete. And, you know, I been doing this for a long period of time, but there's lots of coaches out there that consider their fighters their friends. I do consider them one of my best friends, but I put myself more in, like, a father position of I need to know when to tell them the truth, and I've got myself in trouble with that. With fighters, where you tell them the truth so hard that you have to let them go like a child. Like, hey, if we're not in the same beliefs, go live life and see how it is. And then when you return, I'm still gonna love you having that type of thing where I have to be dead honest for your career, not because it helps us now, and it feels good right now at the moment, I have to look at that. From the time that we start, we talk about what are goals, and then my job is to be an advisor, be a mentor, to get him to that place as best as I can, because these are his goals, and I want to support those. And in the beginning of his career, his goals were to be the. The.
- [04:35]
Justin Gaethje
The.
- [04:35]
Trevor Wittman
The most violent guy out there, the most remembered, the guy that every time someone bought a. A ticket, they remembered Justin Gaethje selling that show. And then it turned into, no, I want to have this belt. And that was hard because we did go and not get the belt twice. And, you know, it's so cool to be in kind of those scenarios where it's like, Dan, you had two opportunities. Now it's never going to happen. And that's what life is. Life is one of those things that you keep getting up and chase your goals. You never know how it's going to happen. And yes, you want to dream and you want to have a, you want to have a plan. But I'll tell you right now, through all the times that I've had championship fighters in business and in life, the plans never work. You always have to adjust them. But it's that dream and that vision to get you to the top of the stairs. You have to get up each one of those steps. So, you know, Justin went out there and wrote a story that I don't think will ever be forgotten. And he did it one round at a time. And that's what impresses me because his mindset. I love the mental game. I love to talk about the mental game. Even like Ilya. Ilya is a special guy with how he uses his mental. The secret, the if I see it, I believe it, it'll happen to a point. You know, it's like I always tell people, like, if you want, if you go down the ice cream aisle and you're like, hey, I don't know what ice cream I want, you're going to stand there and go, oh, that one looks good, that one looks good, that one looks better. The people that are like, I want mint chocolate chip. You get in there, you get it done, you grab that mint chocolate chip and you walk out. Very similar to Ilya's last three fights. He went out there and he demanded what he wanted. His confidence got him through that, but it makes it very hard when you get that stale, nasty, rotten milk, fucking mint chocolate chip, then you start to go, oh, shit, what is going to happen now? So I think the relationship that we have is me guiding him, me pulling him back. The strictly situation, hey, let's pull back a little bit, let's focus on what's going on. I don't want no distractions and having someone and he trusts that I care about him. I love him to death, I love his family. Our relationship is so strong and I need that with my athletes. And I'm just blessed and 100. I say honored, but more importantly, humbled by someone who I've never worked mental with, who shows me different ways to the mental game of fighting, which I feel I'm very high level with, is it's something that if you put some, put yourself around people that make you better. This guy makes me better daily. And I'M very grateful for that.
- [06:59]
Joe Rogan
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- [09:25]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I mean, I think it's huge. I mean, my expectations come from my hard work. Obviously. I expect my body to perform. I understand that. I've trained my mind to. And you know, maybe the narcissistic tendencies in me love showing off and performing in front of, you know, thousands of people on that stage. That's. That's what I love the most about, about this and that's what my personality like. I'm very competitive, I want to win, but I'm never going to lie to myself. And that's how I've, I've never had a coach in my entire career since 4 years old of wrestling have to pull me aside and talk about the mental aspect of competition because it's always been so natural to me. I'm not sure if, I'm not sure if it's because they, they see that I'm doing good and that they agree with my approach mentally or they don't, they don't understand what's going on or. But I've just always been so comfortable and so content with my situation of, you know, this is a competition, it's a game. You know, I'm very competitive, I'm very petty. I take everything personal. And yeah, when I go in there with X, when I have gone in with expectations and it's. I said it before the fight, you know, Ilya, like, I said so many true things to him and I think it was such a, it's such an asset to tell someone the brutal truth, especially someone like him, because it pushes them farther away from the truth. You know, he, Even if I tell him the, the exact truth and exactly what's going to happen and you know, you're making a mistake by having all these expectations and when we go to round two and when we go to round three and it's not going as you predicted it or wanted it to or expected it to, then where do you go from there? And you know, I said that exact thing to him and then that pushed him farther away from it and you
- [11:23]
Joe Rogan
know, I, it's almost like he wanted to prove you wrong.
- [11:26]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, he wanted to prove, he wanted to prove himself right.
- [11:28]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [11:29]
Justin Gaethje
You know, and he was unwilling to be open to opinions and. Because obviously I don't know him, he knows them better than himself. But, you know, I, I got here because I am coachable. I got here because I listen, I use every, every. Like I posted yesterday, every person, place or thing that has happened to me or for me has ultimately molded my mind and my body to be able to deal with the situation that happened on Sunday night. And you know, I can, I can pull so much experience from the past. My losses, my wins, setbacks, failures, accomplishments. I mean, there is so much to learn from it. You know, every day is a learning experience and I constantly try to learn and be better and I don't know why I'M able to perform like that, I think. I just think it's who I am. You know, when I. When I say I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, it's not that I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, but that the thought of that was cool to me, you know, But I was just being me. And I've been blessed to be able to, you know, through my. Through my childhood, through coming from a small town, through having, you know, unwavering support from my. My family and my friends and my coaches and my teachers and everybody from. You know, it's just crazy to. To be able to come out on top. I mean, it's just crazy.
- [12:58]
Joe Rogan
One of the things I think was a giant factor in the fight is that you have been in wars. You've been in a bunch of wars.
- [13:06]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [13:06]
Joe Rogan
And Ilya really had only had some rough moments against Jai Herbert. You know, Yusuf Zalal gave him some problems, but it was nothing serious. The wars that you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in, you. You're comfortable with the back and forth, you're comfortable with enduring. You. You know, that you're not going to break, you know, if your body holds up, you're gonna keep fighting and you can endure. I don't think he'd ever experienced that before. So when you didn't break in the second round, and I think he made a mistake, and I think you're correct about that. You said he made a mistake by going to the ground.
- [13:46]
Trevor Wittman
Absolutely.
- [13:46]
Joe Rogan
And he hurt you to the body.
- [13:47]
Justin Gaethje
I told Trevor yesterday, I think, you know, him hurting to my body was the reason. One of the main reasons I won. You know, when he hit me, when I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body. That was probably the fourth or fifth one. And he had landed some really clean shots, and he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt. And I think that fact made him dump everything because it was his last chance to take me out. And he almost did take me out, but when I went down. In hindsight, it's always easy to make these decisions in hindsight, but when I went down, you know, he would. He's had way more submissions than he has knockouts. And so for him not to have that belief that he's going to be able to go down there, especially with the Khabib fight, especially with the Charles Oliveira fight, especially with all the negativity around my grappling there, you know, I think he would have Been foolish not to because I would have stood back up. I would have stood back up and he would have charged forward, tried to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs. I would have pulled guard. He was going to end up on top of me no matter what. I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again. Like I would have, you know, front rolled into. Into grappling situations or what. I would have made him cover me and. But I think me getting hit is what made him completely blow his, you know, Shane Carwin esque, you know, blow his tank. Yeah. And, you know, go for the win. And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was going to continue to get worse. I beat his ass in the first round. Like, it might have been close on the scorecards. I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round set up the rest of the fight.
- [15:24]
Trevor Wittman
I do think it was a mistake. And you're saying. What you're saying is so correct. But what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's going to finish you in the first two. Understanding the damage that he was taking, he took big risks. He got in there, he kept his hands on your collarbones. He was landing really good shots. Yeah. The two body shots before that, that left hook to deliver that, the sound it made was crazy. That last one was clean. It was precise and. And deep, but you could tell it was already there. But if he didn't put that pressure on himself. And this is what I mean by mistake is like, when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds. And he knew that he had to unleash everything right there. If. If he would have been smart in that scenario, saying, hey, we got five rounds. Let me step back a little bit, let me do some damage. But also he's like, hey, let me get you out of there quick. Justin, you know, can't grapple, can't do all these things with A lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler. And what was so smart about you and is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen, is that's one of my big things is coaching, is we get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions. And then. Then we capitalize on that, on those mistakes. Justin was able to stay so composed here with being speared to the body. And when you take a liver shot, it is way different than the headshot. A headshot's like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar. It's like, hey, let's go, you know? But you take a body shot, you're dying. Like your liver shot, you feel like you're dying. And Justin, all the decisions he made on the ground, from the triangle, from the armbar, from not being flat, so many good decisions were made in that scenario. And I do think it was a mistake. Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go, but those, Those type of moments and fights are what make fights great, is overcoming obstacles. And he had set that up, he had said it. He's like, hey, I'm going to overcome anything. I'm going out there, put the worst thing out there. Like, what are you going to do to me? I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max. Like, you can't do nothing worse to me. And that mindset, I think, is something to take away for all the fighters out there. That always. I love how you say it, Expect a war, always. Some of the biggest mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're going to go through this fight easy, and then that fight becomes super hard. You think it's going to be a war, then you're like, hey, it wasn't as bad as I was expected. Even if it was a little bit
- [17:40]
Justin Gaethje
of a war, they're not going to help them in that moment. Yeah, there's no pulling them out.
- [17:44]
Trevor Wittman
That's fighting. Fighting, like, fighting is mentality. I look at this, like, there's techniques out there and there's things like that. What makes this sport inspirational and makes someone that want to go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter. It's not the technical piece. It's getting back up and it's okay to get knocked down. I love. I love watching people get knocked down because my favorite part is seeing how they get up. And that, to me, is why I love fighting, is how people get up.
- [18:10]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [18:10]
Joe Rogan
How they endure. And that was the big story of that second round that you figured out a way to get through it. And the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious because the sprint that you have to make, like what Ilya did when he was trying to finish you, that he. He used so much fucking energy. And the great Chael Sonnen once said that if you try to win by knockout and fail, you won't win by submission. Yeah, a lot of times that's the case because, you know as good as anybody. If you sprint it hard, you wail in the bag with everything you got for two minutes and then they go, time. One minute's not enough. It's not enough.
- [18:49]
Ad Guest/Announcer
No.
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Justin Gaethje
Even in preparation, even two minutes.
- [18:54]
Joe Rogan
That was crazy. That was crazy too.
- [18:56]
Justin Gaethje
We'll talk about preparation for these fights. Like I'm doing 20, 30, 40, 40 second sprints at most. I mean, that was, that was a two minute sprint for him.
- [19:06]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Full out, full out, full power. Everything, full power. Every punch, full power.
- [19:12]
Justin Gaethje
You can't even train for that, can't.
- [19:14]
Trevor Wittman
You got to have spots, right?
- [19:15]
Joe Rogan
And he didn't. He was just unloading. I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two division world champion and he thinks he's going to go down as the greatest of all time. And hey, he might still could. He might still. What was he, 28?
- [19:30]
Justin Gaethje
The odds are fucking great against that
- [19:33]
Joe Rogan
right now because of that loss.
- [19:34]
Trevor Wittman
I hope he does.
- [19:35]
Justin Gaethje
I hope he does too. I hope he does. And I know that he has a skill, but I know that he has the skill to be a champion again. However, I same thing with Tony Ferguson. I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence. I changed the perception of his opponents, of him. And that is a huge factor. When you go in there, like, who are you fighting? What do you feel? You know, before this, he was a guy that would, that you couldn't get through that, you couldn't push through, you couldn't survive with. And once I showed people that all you gotta do is get through that, then nobody's ever gonna go in there with thinking that he's unbeatable now, you know, and that, that was his, that was his identity. And you know, that's going to be such a tough task for him to fight people that aren't scared of him.
- [20:26]
Joe Rogan
That's interesting. That's Mike Tyson in his prime. That's Anderson Silva in his prime. Where the fight was lost.
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Justin Gaethje
Ronda Rousey got in there.
- [20:33]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, the fight was lost before he got even got in there physically. Now, I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and a broken nose. Just that alone does the orbitals alone. Like anytime you've got eye injuries, like anything severe with your eyes, long term consequences vary, you know, psychological, absolutely.
- [21:00]
Trevor Wittman
And physical.
- [21:00]
Justin Gaethje
The body is resilient.
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Trevor Wittman
I'm telling you, I.
- [21:03]
Justin Gaethje
Broken bones make stronger bones. Like that is his, his, his orbital bones will be stronger.
- [21:09]
Trevor Wittman
It depends on where Justin the Orbital bone. I had my orbital broken and for six months I do this and my tooth would move and it's right where my sinus cavity is. You remember when you hit me with a spinning elbow?
- [21:20]
Joe Rogan
Your tooth would move.
- [21:21]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, I pushed your cheek and my tooth would move.
- [21:24]
Justin Gaethje
Oh.
- [21:24]
Joe Rogan
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- [22:21]
Trevor Wittman
the soft spot, but this is a very weak area where your sinus cavity is. That's a. You. You broke both orbitals and the nose. Like, I do believe the body is resilience.
- [22:29]
Joe Rogan
You ever seen Marab's nose?
- [22:31]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [22:31]
Joe Rogan
You ever seen the X ray in Marab's nose? Did I send it to you?
- [22:35]
Trevor Wittman
It looks like a spine, dude. You've got 33 vertebrae.
- [22:40]
Joe Rogan
It's literally crazy.
- [22:42]
Justin Gaethje
I've had three broken noses. I've had it fixed twice.
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Joe Rogan
Yeah, I know you had it fixed. You know, this is one. There it is. That's Merab's nose.
- [22:52]
Justin Gaethje
Oh, my God.
- [22:53]
Joe Rogan
Oh, my God. I mean, that's.
- [22:56]
Trevor Wittman
That looks like a long cocaine binge right there. Took out the whole fucking left side of his nose.
- [23:01]
Joe Rogan
You got hit with a sledgehammer.
- [23:02]
Trevor Wittman
I mean, crazy.
- [23:03]
Joe Rogan
That nose is crazy.
- [23:05]
Trevor Wittman
That is crazy.
- [23:05]
Joe Rogan
That is like. And to fix it, he's going to have to have no contact for like a year.
- [23:10]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, that's.
- [23:11]
Joe Rogan
So he's not going to fix it. He's just going to deal. Look how turned it is. Make that the bone.
- [23:16]
Justin Gaethje
I've had my eyes fixed and my nose fixed, and my nose was better for. For quality of life. Oh, the nose, obviously, being able to see was huge. But when your nose is broken, like, you have to understand, like, getting a haircut sucks. You can't breathe through your nose. Your mouth's open the whole time. You're constantly breathing in hair. Like, there's there's so much. Every time you eat food, like there's something missing. Yeah. Sleep. I wore a nose tip to bed for 10 years now, you know, now
- [23:49]
Trevor Wittman
a permanent scab because I peeled that thing off all the time.
- [23:51]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. My nose is used to it now, but. Yeah, when you got it fixed. Insane.
- [23:57]
Joe Rogan
When you got it fixed, which fight was it before the Max fight?
- [24:00]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, right before the Max fight.
- [24:01]
Joe Rogan
And then you could breathe out of it perfectly.
- [24:04]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [24:04]
Joe Rogan
Is it still good now?
- [24:05]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, he. He broke it, but he didn't break. He didn't fuck with the cartilage. He broke. He actually fractured the bone up top. So I didn't have to get it fixed.
- [24:12]
Joe Rogan
It's another factor that when we were talking about the fight and, you know, people were talking about this matchup with Ilia, I said, you have to think about what he did to Fiziev. Fiziev is a super talented striker. And then you also have to think about the Max Holloway fight, because he was pressing in the first round, but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the fucking face. And when that was, that's a. That's a game changer. And it happened at the end, the first round. And from that it changed the tone of the fight because it was just dead on. It was perfect.
- [24:44]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan
And couldn't have landed any better.
- [24:45]
Justin Gaethje
And the truth of the matter is, is psychologically, I was not. I was not there. I was not prepared mentally for the fight. When I fought Max Holloway, it was such a different circumstance. It was, you know, a guy that wasn't in my weight class. It was a guy that I'd never thought about fighting. It was for fun. And that whole. The whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had. When it comes to, like, being mentally prepared for.
- [25:12]
Joe Rogan
For a fight, what do you attribute that to? Like, what?
- [25:15]
Justin Gaethje
Myself, my.
- [25:17]
Trevor Wittman
And us. Like, we took. We told him to take the fight. He didn't want. He didn't want to take the fight. And we told him that you're going to keep the title contention fight because that's what they promised us. That's why he was very.
- [25:28]
Justin Gaethje
Every one of you guys, every one of you was like, oh, something was different. It was like, well, why didn't you guys say something?
- [25:33]
Trevor Wittman
You told me, you told me after
- [25:34]
Justin Gaethje
the fight different, but, like, I needed to know.
- [25:37]
Trevor Wittman
He tells me, he's like this. He's like, I just didn't respect him. And I'm like, how could you not respect Max? And I didn't catch on to it. So it's like, I'm always looking for flags and things like that. And 100. I take 100 responsibility because that's how we learn. Everybody makes mistakes. I remember the Tony Ferguson fight. I didn't give any fucking water. You know, like, there's, like, things that we all learn from. But the thing when he had told me that, I'm like, how did I not catch that from you? Because he's like, dude, he was a smaller guy. Just didn't. And. And I was like, dude, Max is like one of the guys that I look up to from the outside. Like, he is talented.
- [26:09]
Justin Gaethje
I remember thinking, what. What am I looking for? Like, what am I afraid of? I kept trying to convince myself that I needed to be. I needed to find what I was to be worried about, and I couldn't find it.
- [26:21]
Joe Rogan
So you always need that before a fight?
- [26:23]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
- [26:25]
Trevor Wittman
No matter who it is you're fighting.
- [26:26]
Joe Rogan
Right. You know? Right.
- [26:27]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. And so, like, I was. I've never been as present, and, like, I've never been able to retain a fight. And I. You know, before the knockout, I. I was there. Like, I was. I was in the. I was in the. In the arena. I saw the lights, I saw the people. I heard the people. Like, I've never been there in my life. And I think that I can attribute that to me not being scared. And so me not, you know, me not being in a real fight or
- [26:55]
Joe Rogan
flight, real life or death situation. So you weren't fully focused? You could actually hear the crowd?
- [27:01]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I could hear my thoughts. You know, I had thoughts. Never had thoughts in a fight because I'm so intuitive and reactionary. And that one was just so dear. There was so much and so sure. The kicks, the eye pokes. No, I think I was not. I couldn't have beat him tonight with the mentality that I had. And that was my last lesson to learn. I had made my less. You know, my lessons with Oliveira was like, I wanted it so much. I wanted it so bad, and I wanted to perform, and I wanted to impress my fans. You know, Rose had a fight that night, and she fought like absolute garbage. And I. You know, and I told my coach. I was like, coach, don't worry, I won't do that to you.
- [27:44]
Trevor Wittman
He said that before, right before, about the walk.
- [27:46]
Justin Gaethje
Right before we're about to walk. I was like, don't worry, Coach. And coach is pissed. And everyone's, you know, my. The locker room's all up because Pat's weird.
- [27:54]
Joe Rogan
Is that the Carlos Sparza fight, was that the same night?
- [27:57]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, yeah. And I was at home. And so there was. And that was, again, that was my fault. I allowed those things to affect me, right? And to, you know, affect my fighting decisions rather than just being myself. And so that was a huge mistake. Another mistake was, you know, winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is and how dangerous this game is and how much luck and chance are a factor every single night. And so, you know, I wasn't doing the extra credit. I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home, you know, and I don't know. I don't know why. It's just. And I made that mistake probably into the Eddie Alvarez, Dustin Poirier fights, lost, and then I won three or four in a row. And then I completely went back to the same mindset of, I'm the best in the world, nobody can beat me, and I paid for it. And those two mistakes were huge. Very, very big learning lessons. And then the Charles Oliveira fight, you know, I was like, I wanted it so bad. And then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was because it's just 25 minutes in time and all I can control is being perfect, my preparation for it. But then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect, and, yeah, those are the mistakes that I made. I had to learn, I had to make those mistakes. I would not change anything about my career. I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is. And, you know, I think in time, again, this is going to age like my career is something special. The way that I did it, the way that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't going to get a title champ, a title shot, the way I called my shots along the way and the discipline I had, I mean, it's second to none. I've watched his sport my whole life, since 1992. My dad showed me. I remember as a four year old seeing it. I don't have a lot of, you know, great memories. I remember my childhood, but it's not like you have specifics, but I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom. We were sitting there watching it together. I was. And I was enthralled. I was like, this is. This is amazing. I love this.
- [30:18]
Trevor Wittman
Can you picture that? Him with, like a baby bottle, just squeezing it.
- [30:24]
Justin Gaethje
And then I watched it and I was a die hard fan. I've been a die hard fan ever since then. And especially in 2001 when it came along, I was, you know, probably in seventh or eighth grade, sixth or seventh grade, and just fell in love with it. And then, you know me and call going into college, we'd go and sit at Buffalo wild wings for six, seven, eight hours. Spend $5. Those poor service people.
- [30:45]
Joe Rogan
It's just amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long because I remember when you first entered into the ufc, the Michael Johnson fight, I was so pumped for it because I was like, get ready because this is going to be fucking wild. Because I had been a fan of yours when you were fighting, what was it? World Series of Fighting? And then that Michael Johnson fight was everything that I thought it would be. Crazy. Just a wild ass fight, crazy coming out party, dude.
- [31:10]
Trevor Wittman
I giggled so many times in that fight. Dude. When you went against the cage and you were like this, you like look back and you were like, oh, I'm looking for the shot. And you're like blocking off the thing and then you come back with the right hook and then you let it back in again. Then you hit it with the right hook again off the cage, dude. There's so many giggle sessions in there. I wasn't nervous because just again, that's the way he fights. And I'm like, he's. No one's gonna forget this fight.
- [31:30]
Joe Rogan
Michael Johnson was sweet swinging.
- [31:32]
Trevor Wittman
I caught him with that left hand a few times.
- [31:34]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin.
- [31:36]
Trevor Wittman
His left hand is so fast.
- [31:38]
Joe Rogan
He's.
- [31:38]
Trevor Wittman
It is so fast.
- [31:39]
Joe Rogan
And Michael has power, dude. And, and he was trying to win. I mean he was going all out that you guys just emptied out in that fight. It was fantastic. And I was like, there it is.
- [31:51]
Trevor Wittman
The, the three rounder to get off the, the backflip. Took three rounds. He got up there, fell off. Got up there, fell off.
- [31:58]
Justin Gaethje
I was like, you can do it.
- [31:59]
Trevor Wittman
You. I'm out there motivating him.
- [32:01]
Joe Rogan
I always get so sc. Knees when you do that. Like please don't hurt your knees after you won the title.
- [32:06]
Justin Gaethje
100, baby.
- [32:08]
Trevor Wittman
We're trading for Khabib. We're over at high altitude, he's doing backflips off the, off the the cage. And I was like, stop. Do this after the fight.
- [32:17]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. He's like, hey, no more backflip. I was like, today, today's the day. Today's day. I become a like Today's the day.
- [32:25]
Trevor Wittman
Forget that moment.
- [32:26]
Justin Gaethje
You know what? I turned my head.
- [32:27]
Trevor Wittman
I was like, stop. Go ahead.
- [32:29]
Joe Rogan
That is kind of true, right when. When you get something and all of a sudden you're special, then you started protecting it, and then you won't be special anymore.
- [32:38]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, that's why I told him. I was like, so today. Today, he's fucking crazy.
- [32:42]
Trevor Wittman
Like, I never want him to stop being fucking crazy. Like, everything about him in life, when you play golf with him, he's the highlight. He does shit that, like, you'll never fucking see. Like, it's like everything you do is the highlight. Like, his life is, like his fighting. He's fucking wild.
- [32:56]
Joe Rogan
So your mentality, you've never had to work on. I mean, obviously you've lear along the way, but you've never had to, like, sit down and work on this mindset. It's always been something you inherently possessed.
- [33:08]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's crazy. I think people.
- [33:12]
Joe Rogan
Crazy.
- [33:12]
Justin Gaethje
I think people just complicate things so much. Like, when you can truly understand that there's. There's. There is things you can't control, but it's not everything. You can only control what's inside of you, you know, you can only control how you perceive things, how you react to things. The work you put in, the work, obviously, the preparation. Yeah, but it's. I mean, there's so much. You know, And I guess I always knew that something was coming because no matter how far off the road, you know, like, I've made mistakes, you know, I've done. I was never an alcoholic, thank God. I was never an alcoholic and never. But I was. I could say I was. I was probably a drug addict at, you know, one time in my life. And what drugs? I don't know. I have never told my parents about this, so I don't know.
- [34:05]
Joe Rogan
You don't have to.
- [34:05]
Justin Gaethje
All of them. All of them. I want so. But it's getting. And I know this is gonna sound stupid, but. So I went to school for human services. I wanted to help people. A big part of that is helping people come off drugs. And I lost many. Over a handful of friends, really close friends from drugs. Where I come from, we're not far from Mexico, and we. The best. We had the best shit coming right across the border before I ever got caught up. And it was. It was. My life, you know, where I'm from is very boring. And so, like, you chase again, you know, we have it so good in this country. We're always trying to create chaos in Order to feel something. And I guess that's what I was probably doing and in college is when I really, you know, I was like, if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how can I ever even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing? And so that was a part of it. And also a part was felt good, you know, and so, you know, once I did certain things, I knew what people were chasing, but then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me, and I had something to do. And so that was always. It was never a crutch for me. I was always like, that was awesome. You know, I'm not doing it again.
- [35:27]
Joe Rogan
What is it in your head that. Where you always knew that you had something bigger?
- [35:34]
Justin Gaethje
Well, probably my faith. I mean, I've been. My parents, the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with God through the word of Jesus Christ. And just trying to live up to those expectations. I knew, not that I was going to be a champion or anything. I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out. You know, when you're on drugs or when you're. When you're living a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you, nobody wants anything from you, and that's an easy way to live. You know those, right? There's no pressure, no expectations. No expectations, no pressure. And I mean, it really is. I can understand how you can let that overcome the passion to live, you know, And. I don't know, I just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my desire to feel good.
- [36:40]
Joe Rogan
I want to talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world, wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world, being happy with performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt. What started that decision?
- [37:00]
Justin Gaethje
It's weird because I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change other than I'm not going to get hit. In the Dustin Poirier fight and the Eddie Alvarez fight, I absolutely almost broke them. And it was no different than any of my other fights. Nobody had just ever. Same with Ilya, you know, like, nobody had ever got past it. Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds. And then those guys did, and I was like, what happened? You know? And ultimately, I put myself in a position and I got hit with a shot that took me out of the fight. And so after those fights, I was like, I have to not take these shots. And that was ultimately all I can say that I that I changed mentally is I'm going to. I don't want to get hit. I used to never care about getting hit because it's like, doesn't hurt. Nothing hurts in there. You don't feel nothing. It's never hurt. And so that was really just the mindset. I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight.
- [38:16]
Joe Rogan
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- [40:34]
Trevor Wittman
So the shift.
- [40:35]
Justin Gaethje
But he, he probably from the outside.
- [40:37]
Trevor Wittman
Outside sources, yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely there. There was a shift and it wasn't just like an instant shift. It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and Poirier where he's like, I'm winning these fights and I need to be able to get to the distance. And I was like, all right, we got to become a spot fighter because you just drown people and what's happening is you're making mistakes. We threw a low kick against Poirier. He got caught because he base back lazy with his shoulders above his hips. So I was like, all right, let's be sharp, let's fight in spots. Then he goes on a three fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out. From Vick to Barbosa into Cowboy Cerrone. Then that's where he's like. And then I sat down with him and I was like, do you want to be a champion? And I was like, this is how you have to fight to be a champion is be smart. And he never said he didn't want to be the most exciting fighter tomorrow. He would tell me after fights, he's like, I'm not even trying to fight excited, but look at me. And it's like, it's so amazing. Like it's in them. It's just, how do we, how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for 100 yards and jog and then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your, your, your, your red line. Don't, don't cross over that red line. Don't hold. Red line.
- [41:47]
Joe Rogan
Well, that, that is again the experience that you've had in wars. It's such, it was so critical he could do it.
- [41:52]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, I don't want to make mistakes.
- [41:54]
Justin Gaethje
And it is, I think it's crazy. I think again, the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round, 39 to 32 or something.
- [42:01]
Joe Rogan
You landed some hard jabs.
- [42:03]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [42:03]
Trevor Wittman
But yeah, there's, yours were devastating. He might have touched.
- [42:06]
Justin Gaethje
And I'm talking about the perception. Yeah, it looks like I'm getting hit. It Looks like it's. But, I mean, my. I don't have special skin. I am able to see punches and. And roll with them and roll with punches. If you watch my, you know, fights frame by frame, I'm not getting hit.
- [42:26]
Joe Rogan
For the most part, you're moving with the punches.
- [42:29]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. Yeah. It's. Be like water. Like, I'm. I'm constantly, you know, and intuitively making these calculations.
- [42:37]
Trevor Wittman
That's the scoring that. When you see that. I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing. Amateur boxing. If the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's considered. That's how you judge.
- [42:49]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [42:49]
Trevor Wittman
And that's where, Justin. I think, where you look at it from a point system, you can't just look at the screen, and that's why judges can't look at a screen and go, oh, this guy landed more. This is who won. You had the damaging blows. I think everybody knows that. Like, I get it. Like, I see the way you roll a shot. I see the way that you fade off.
- [43:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [43:07]
Trevor Wittman
And allow the shot not to go through your skull and deflect it. It still gets touched to you. So it's considered that they landed that shot. But the damage is, like, what you do to people, by the way that you hit through that you drive through people is so different. Like, Justin hits unlike any. He still. I still think to this day, we gotta ask the ufc, but they did a test on him to see who has the hardest bones in the ufc. He. He had the hardest boat.
- [43:30]
Ad Guest/Announcer
Dude.
- [43:31]
Trevor Wittman
He kicks me, and I'm just like, I. I'm so glad. I feel so bad for Luke.
- [43:34]
Justin Gaethje
He didn't let. He. Don't let me kick.
- [43:36]
Trevor Wittman
God, dude. Luke Cadill just takes.
- [43:37]
Joe Rogan
Let me tell you something.
- [43:38]
Justin Gaethje
He has a pad on. He has his pad on. I kick him and his. His nuts swell up.
- [43:42]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, I get blue balls, bro.
- [43:43]
Justin Gaethje
And so I can't kick.
- [43:44]
Trevor Wittman
There's a nerve on the inside of your leg. I talked to a doctor about it, because I'm like, bro. Like, he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg, and it's because the shock through, but there's a nerve on the inside of the leg. I'd go home and I'd tell my wife, I'm like, babe, I got blue balls. She's like, from who? And I'm like, justin. She looks at me like the. You got blue balls from Justin for
- [44:01]
Joe Rogan
one of the things you were doing early in your Career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie like you were a leg kick. Oh, my goodness. How come no one's doing that? Like, you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that. That was from the clinch, was leg kicking. You've got some flexible hips, man, because the way you're able to do that from, like, right in tight like this, and then. And not just throw the leg out. You're whipping into it.
- [44:28]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah. He pulls them to their lead leg, so he's making a base on that knee, and then it's just like you got to stump in the ground, and you're just trying to bend that tree. Yeah. You know, and, man, he's very good at that.
- [44:36]
Joe Rogan
Let me tell you something about Luke, because I got into the Octagon at right after you won, and Luke and I looked at each other. He was like.
- [44:45]
Justin Gaethje
He's like, dude. He's like. He's like, Joe is so pumped. He hugged me so hard.
- [44:50]
Joe Rogan
He was so happy.
- [44:51]
Trevor Wittman
He was.
- [44:52]
Joe Rogan
It was amazing because seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time and knowing how much he loves you, watching the happiness that he had when you won was incredible.
- [45:02]
Justin Gaethje
No, Luke is one of my really, really good friends.
- [45:04]
Trevor Wittman
He pukes every time before.
- [45:05]
Justin Gaethje
Every time before, Trevor was in my corner. Luke, corner. He used to go to Arizona with me. I had no coaches. I would just do it in between, you know, in between wrestling seasons. And. Yeah, he would go down there with me and just wrap my hands, and he would just be there. Wow.
- [45:19]
Trevor Wittman
He's amazing. One of the best human beings on earth.
- [45:21]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. I love that, man.
- [45:22]
Trevor Wittman
Hey, did you tell him about the Sunday? So the Sunday before the fight? So. So there was one time, I think it was in the cowboy fight where you were. You were pummeling with Ben, and he'd finished with a low kick on Ben every time. And I'm like, stop kicking your coach. And he looks at me, he's like. He's like, Trevor, he used to drag me back on the mats. He's like, I'm gonna kick. I was like, you guys got that?
- [45:42]
Justin Gaethje
Just give me this. Give me this opportunity to beat his ass.
- [45:45]
Trevor Wittman
So we go golfing Joe Sunday.
- [45:48]
Justin Gaethje
We go golfing the Sunday before the fight. We go golfing Sunday. And they, you know, it's a Sunday. We never work out on Sundays. And Trevor. Not Trevor. Luke and Ben got pickled. They each had, like, three very, very, very stiff mark bloody Marys. Luke bought like 12 beers. Because we got there and they're like, hey, everything's on the president. And he's like, yeah, I've never heard that before. He's on the president. I'm gonna drink. And so, like, like whole 10 or 11. Trevor's like, let's with them. Let's tell them that we're gonna work out later.
- [46:20]
Trevor Wittman
Well, we're gonna work out, but I'm telling them they're gonna be the workout.
- [46:23]
Justin Gaethje
I didn't know we were working out. Put it. I had no idea.
- [46:26]
Trevor Wittman
We're definitely working.
- [46:27]
Justin Gaethje
I thought he was with me. We're out there golfing. It's hot as I'm sweating my ass off. I had no idea we were working out that day. And he's like, let's with them. Let's tell him that we're gonna work out. I was like, all right, cool.
- [46:36]
Trevor Wittman
So I told him I was gonna text him and give the workout because I'll get. I'll lay out the workout for everybody. And I told Luke he was gonna go three rounds of sparring, full on sparring. And then Ben's got to go 40 minutes straight. No breaks, just grappling. Not wrestling, just grappling. And they're up, dude. And I told Justin, I was like, all right, let's with him, see how he is. And dude, instantly before I didn't text it, we just started talking about it. So we're on the way home, driving home, and dude, Ben is like, dude, he's like. He's like, I'll just take you down. And he's like, I. I asked him how many times you can take him down? As many as I want.
- [47:06]
Justin Gaethje
As many times I want, dude. 40 minutes.
- [47:08]
Trevor Wittman
Let's go.
- [47:08]
Justin Gaethje
60 minutes.
- [47:09]
Trevor Wittman
So they went, 20, dude. You got what, seven submissions on your coach? He drug him back on the mats. It was so funny because I was like, dude, you got to drag it back out the vast c. I got to witness this.
- [47:17]
Justin Gaethje
It's funny because I got a video, dude. So we get home, I go. I go down, take a nap for like two hours. And they just stay drinking up, up. My YouTube guy filmed everything. And they're just talking so much how they're gonna me up.
- [47:31]
Trevor Wittman
Luke was good, though. Luke was like. He was trying to.
- [47:33]
Justin Gaethje
Luke's been through it, man.
- [47:34]
Trevor Wittman
You're really gonna say that?
- [47:35]
Justin Gaethje
Like, Luke's like, hey, I ain't saying any of this. Not me. It's him. But they're making a plan how they're going to team up on me and so, you know, it's funny. Then he got the video there, and I'm beating Ben's ass. Oh, no, Actually, I went with Luke first, and I was him up, and
- [47:50]
Trevor Wittman
Luke's punching Ben because Ben won't jump in.
- [47:51]
Justin Gaethje
Yes. He's like, what the.
- [47:54]
Ad Guest/Announcer
Ben.
- [47:55]
Justin Gaethje
What the, man? Now's the time. And he's asking for help. Asking for help. I beat his ass and I did.
- [48:00]
Trevor Wittman
We have fun. For sure. Great coaches. Our whole team is just. Everybody's so dialed in.
- [48:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [48:06]
Justin Gaethje
That whole week is one of my. Every time we go. That whole week is one of my favorite experiences.
- [48:09]
Joe Rogan
You were using the sauna in between workouts as well.
- [48:13]
Trevor Wittman
And before. And so nothing.
- [48:15]
Justin Gaethje
That sucked. I say it was perfect. You say it was perfect. It was not. It was detrimental to our outside.
- [48:21]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Yeah.
- [48:21]
Justin Gaethje
The humidity was there. I didn't realize it because obviously it's not. You know, it's not something I can worry about right now. But after round one, I just remember thinking, oh, I am so tired right now.
- [48:32]
Trevor Wittman
How.
- [48:33]
Justin Gaethje
How is this possible? And the amount of. The amount of fluid I lost.
- [48:36]
Joe Rogan
Thank God.
- [48:37]
Justin Gaethje
It was probably lost, like, 50.
- [48:38]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [48:38]
Joe Rogan
Because it was in the 70s, dude.
- [48:40]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, 70s with the cool breeze. You know, when you go out there, what you feel is the cool breeze, but just heavier, though, in the fight, man, it was different.
- [48:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I hated the fact that it was going to happen, but I'm glad it did.
- [48:50]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [48:50]
Justin Gaethje
I'm. Again, I. I would not change again, I think.
- [48:53]
Joe Rogan
How could you change?
- [48:54]
Justin Gaethje
It affects me. It affects him, you know, Again, I grew up in the country. He's. He's a city boy. There's no way he's not a city boy. I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not. Not a city boy, you know? And so as a country. Country boy from the desert in Arizona, like, I was hoping that it would be hot. As hot as, like, when he sat
- [49:13]
Trevor Wittman
down on the stool, I was like, oh, God, these outside fights kill me.
- [49:16]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Trevor Wittman
You know, he was doing, like, dude, he was shaking. Dude. He was, like, trembling. I was like, holy.
- [49:22]
Joe Rogan
Well, it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you never have fights in. We've had how many fights outside? We've had the Abu Dhabi fight in, like, what was that, 2009 or something like that.
- [49:37]
Justin Gaethje
They did didn't. What was the setting? I wasn't there.
- [49:41]
Trevor Wittman
It was.
- [49:42]
Justin Gaethje
It was when Adesanya did his famous walkout in, like, a. It was covered, but it was. It Seemed like the environment was outside.
- [49:49]
Trevor Wittman
Poirier getting against that.
- [49:55]
Joe Rogan
Well, we did one in Abu Dhabi when bj, the big arena.
- [49:58]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [49:58]
Joe Rogan
Lost to Frankie Edgar. That was outside in Abu Dhabi. And that was when Anderson Silva fought Damian Maya.
- [50:06]
Trevor Wittman
Is that what they. With that Ferrari building?
- [50:09]
Joe Rogan
The Ferrari building was there, but I don't know if it was in the same place they had it.
- [50:13]
Justin Gaethje
Did they have a fight in the Ferrari building?
- [50:15]
Joe Rogan
I think they did, but I wasn't there for that one. I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights.
- [50:19]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't that long ago. Remember we were talking last seven years?
- [50:24]
Trevor Wittman
Remember the dude in Morocco said after the first round, he was done. He was just trying to survive. He said it was so hot. Remember?
- [50:29]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, No, I mean, that's what I remember it being over there. And then, you know, once you realize the climate over there and the humidity, it's like, Jimmy doesn't. Fucking Bodog.
- [50:38]
Joe Rogan
Remember Bo Dog fights? They had. They had a fight outside in the sun, on the beach.
- [50:45]
Trevor Wittman
Caesar palace in Vegas. Remember Caesar's Palace? The boxing. We got to fight there. Vernal Phillips against.
- [50:52]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's right. They used to always do it outside.
- [50:54]
Justin Gaethje
World Series of fighting around the NASCAR event.
- [50:57]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, that's. That was crazy.
- [51:00]
Joe Rogan
Duran versus Hearns.
- [51:01]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, they were. They were great.
- [51:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's right. At least Vegas is dry.
- [51:07]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
- [51:09]
Justin Gaethje
Arizona. Vegas.
- [51:11]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah. Humidity was. What I was training for with him was heat stroke. Like, dealing with it where you can't breathe. It's heavy air. Like. Like.
- [51:16]
Joe Rogan
So were you putting water on the rocks and the surroundings as well? Absolutely. And so.
- [51:20]
Trevor Wittman
And we trained in a hotter gym. I turned the temperature up in the gyms just so he's getting used to dealing with. With a little bit more heat stroke.
- [51:26]
Justin Gaethje
We would spike my heart rate, and then I would go in the sauna, 15 minutes, then I would come out and do eight to 10 rounds.
- [51:33]
Trevor Wittman
It was great. I'm so glad we did it.
- [51:35]
Joe Rogan
Very smart. Very smart. Because that environment, it's so completely different. I. I just. Ultimately, I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually fight.
- [51:45]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [51:46]
Joe Rogan
Controlled environment. That's how it should be.
- [51:47]
Trevor Wittman
It was cool, though, Joe.
- [51:48]
Joe Rogan
You know why so cool?
- [51:50]
Trevor Wittman
So we. We went and did. We went dead. A rehearsal. Okay. And I'm like, why are we rehearsing a walkthrough? Like, if this ain't a freaking wedding, like, just tell us where to go. The camera guys are always like, all right, you're Mark here. So why are we doing this? And then we go there and we get stuck in this locker room for two hours because of rain. And thank God that happened because then I started to go, oh, because it's all unexpected. And how Iliad said, hey, I'm a visualizer. I can't visualize this arena. And I visualize a lot too. So I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that, that. And that's when I knew, hey, these are going to be some huge unknowns. And I had told him that night because the rain was coming. Like it was crazy how the storm split around because it was all bright red. I was like, this is thunderstorms. This ain't just.
- [52:33]
Joe Rogan
And they were talking about pushing the fight till 10.30pm we had planned to start fighting at the start of the
- [52:37]
Trevor Wittman
night at 2 in the morning.
- [52:39]
Justin Gaethje
Staying up till like 3am after the rehearsal, I was like, it could be 3am when we fight, I'm going to just start saying up.
- [52:44]
Trevor Wittman
But that's what was cool. Like the walkout, like having the soldiers, like just walking through the soldiers there was that we weren't able to take any of this in, Joe and I can't really speak for him. I know where his mind's up. I couldn't from a coach's standpoint, I was nervous as fuck because you don't know, there's no pattern I can take on right now and kind of put myself and breathe to it. It was very unique. And at the end I couldn't even really smile. Was just like, dude, I'm just like blown away now. I can kind of just look around slowly and just try to take in everything. Because it was very, very hard to, to go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on, on this stage at the White House. We're the Americans, we're a 6 to 1 underdog. That gets to you that, that, you know, when you hear that over and over and over and over, it's, you know, dude, you, you caught one. You caught a marlin. But having take a left just that scenario was so unique. And then once it was over, then it was like, now I get to enjoy the White House. And just being here in this, this, this environment.
- [53:50]
Joe Rogan
There you can see it. What is he reading there? Is that the Declaration of Independence?
- [53:54]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah. So we weren't in the room with him right there. We through the, the rehearsal. Yeah.
- [53:57]
Joe Rogan
How crazy. He's in the Oval Office stepping out
- [54:01]
Trevor Wittman
and then all the soldiers walking through. So cool. Like having the Two guys next to
- [54:05]
Joe Rogan
him, and a lot of people complain about this happening at the White House and. But do you don't think this is cool?
- [54:13]
Trevor Wittman
This is dude fighting.
- [54:14]
Joe Rogan
How could you not like this, anyone? This shouldn't be taking place tomorrow. Shut the fuck, dude.
- [54:20]
Trevor Wittman
Life is a fight. World is a fight.
- [54:22]
Joe Rogan
Like, incredible to watch. It's a wild thing to watch. By the way, how much gold did Trump put on those walls? Look, he's got gold everywhere. Look at these fucking gold designs.
- [54:31]
Trevor Wittman
When we were at the Oval Office, first thing I said is, I was like, this thing is small as hell. Like, when I see it on pictures, it, like, seems so big. And I was like, but the gold pieces on the wal is the first thing. I was like, they dust that shit every day because, dude, it was so clean.
- [54:43]
Joe Rogan
Well, he put that up there. None of that was there. None of that was there. He was explaining it to me. There was no gold.
- [54:49]
Justin Gaethje
I wanted to have gold.
- [54:50]
Joe Rogan
He's got a gold cherub, like, a solid gold cherub that's above one of the doors. He goes, if Putin comes, hopefully it doesn't fall on his head. It's like he's got gold everywhere. It's all him. He redesigned a bunch of the things. He's a builder, right? So that's why he wanted to do the ballroom. That's why he wanted to keep. But, you know, he likes everything in gold. He's a gold guy.
- [55:11]
Trevor Wittman
Was Alison Powers, bro, watch.
- [55:13]
Joe Rogan
We were just watching you look at the declaration of independence before you walked out, which is also wild. Like, this is never going to happen again. This is more historic than Rumble in the Jungle. More historic than. I mean, think about all the great fights that we've all watched as kids that were like, remember that. That this tops everything because of the scene. Because of the fact that not only is it at the White House, but the American, who's a six to one on some books, underdog, pulls it off in spectacular fashion. And just the seesaw of the fight, back and forth. The back and forth of the fight was huge because the second round was crazy. It was like, oh, no.
- [55:54]
Trevor Wittman
And letting it go on again when. When. So our corner, all the coaches were like, dude, they're gonna stop it. And I was said out loud, I was like, please, let it go on. And I just wanted to finish, like,
- [56:04]
Joe Rogan
a definitive ending, dude.
- [56:06]
Trevor Wittman
Because that would have been a point where it's like, especially with him going, hey, I want to go and continue. And then we have got her come out and say, hey, you are God.
- [56:13]
Joe Rogan
For Mark Goddard.
- [56:14]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [56:14]
Joe Rogan
Okay. Because if it wasn't for Mark Goddard, if another less excuse referee. You think he did, he wanted out. Yeah.
- [56:21]
Justin Gaethje
You don't, you don't. You know for a fact you do not ever as a fighter say, I cannot see it's over. Right. And he was counting on that. He said he had already stated. He didn't need to say it again. He did not think they were. I don't think he thought there was.
- [56:33]
Trevor Wittman
So you think that he called Goddard a turkey? Internally, he was like. When he said, oh, you're gonna go fight? Hey, I was playing in that moment.
- [56:40]
Justin Gaethje
He just like, I've done, you know, I'm, I've tried. And it might have been like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out. And then he reevaluated and rethunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting. Did you say thug it, dude?
- [56:56]
Trevor Wittman
That's a real word. I stopped.
- [56:57]
Justin Gaethje
No, I stopped. I stopped him twice. I stopped him twice that night. There's no doubt about it.
- [57:05]
Trevor Wittman
I loved it. I loved it.
- [57:06]
Joe Rogan
This episode is brought to you by ONX Off Road. Ever wonder how to reach these epic mountain lakes? They're tucked away dispersed campsites. With ONX off road, you'll find legal open trails around you and even better guided trails mapped by real off roaders. Each one includes photos, terrain descriptions and difficulty ratings so you'll know if your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, OnX gives you turn by turn directions on the trail. And their new dispersed camping layer shows where you can legally set up camp. You also get private land boundaries, public land overlays, and the ability to download maps for offline use so that you're never guessing even when you're off the grid. It's a powerful tool built for serious off roaders. Try onx off road for 50 off, go to on xmaps.com Joe Rogan. Well, it was, it was a big factor that Goddard let it go on because then we got to see that epic fourth round, which is crazy. Which was just in the end when you landed that knee to the body, that was like the final.
- [58:19]
Trevor Wittman
Right where he landed that heavy knee that he just starts chopping it where
- [58:22]
Justin Gaethje
he got the elbow in.
- [58:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And then, then he has to quit on a stool. And if Goddard had just given to that referee or that judges or the, the doctors rather desires, here it is.
- [58:34]
Trevor Wittman
I love how you punch right here, right on the spot.
- [58:37]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [58:38]
Trevor Wittman
Oh, right there. Oh, right where I just lay out.
- [58:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he did not like that. And that was the end. Crazy fight.
- [58:47]
Justin Gaethje
I mean, it's crazy how different. So again, being a fan of the sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would have usually watched this from. And yeah, it would have been the most incredible thing ever. Being the fighter, you know, you really not appreciating any of that because you're so locked into. It's like golfing. Like, you don't know, but golfing is like certain swing thoughts, you know, and nothing else can come in. Nothing can creep in. And so me looking at the Declaration of Independence, I was looking at it, but I didn't. I didn't take it in as this being the declaration. I was sitting there, I was like, okay, gotta reset his feet. Gotta control. Gotta move left, Gotta move left. Can't get against the fence, you know, and then those are the thoughts I'm having as though the whole walkout. And so I'm really not taking any of it in as it. As it, you know, as the show or as the theatrics of it.
- [59:38]
Joe Rogan
Of course, not.
- [59:39]
Justin Gaethje
Watching it in hindsight, obviously, is. It's awesome.
- [59:41]
Joe Rogan
There was something special about you warming up with the American flag around your shoulder too. We were watching that. There was something special about watching you shadow box before all this with the American flag on. I was like, if he wins, good Lord, if he wins tonight, it's gonna be insane. And it was. Is the. The. The feeling of, like, joy throughout the building, throughout the grounds, like the happiness that everybody had seen, had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazing cap to that event with your fight, it was just nuts.
- [60:15]
Trevor Wittman
It felt like a whole arena to me. It was crazy for the amount of people that you could see.
- [60:19]
Joe Rogan
Here it is to back flip in front of the White House. He.
- [60:24]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, he flag.
- [60:25]
Justin Gaethje
That's going to be a sick.
- [60:26]
Trevor Wittman
Did you flag?
- [60:27]
Justin Gaethje
That's a sick picture. I rolled out of it.
- [60:29]
Trevor Wittman
It was. Hey, hey, tell me, tell me, what was it? Tell me that. What'd you use? Newton's law.
- [60:34]
Justin Gaethje
Newton's first law. Object in motion needs to stay. I just stayed in motion.
- [60:38]
Joe Rogan
Stay in motion. Look at the size of that crowd that was outside.
- [60:42]
Trevor Wittman
So you couldn't see this crowd. Like, I couldn't see this crowd.
- [60:45]
Joe Rogan
But you know what? Hear them and you could feel them, dude. You could feel the energy. I mean, even though there was only 4, 000 people. Did not. Did not feel like 4, 000 people. It felt like a hundred thousand people because all those people were behind us. You know, it was.
- [61:00]
Trevor Wittman
How many people were in that place?
- [61:01]
Joe Rogan
85,000 plus. Yeah.
- [61:03]
Justin Gaethje
It happened so fast.
- [61:05]
Joe Rogan
The, the size of the group outside was insane.
- [61:08]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [61:09]
Joe Rogan
I mean, and they're watching on these giant screens and freaking out like a concert. Yeah.
- [61:13]
Trevor Wittman
We were at the weighins. It was like, dude, that's what I pictured, like Woodstock being like. Dude. I looked and I could not see the end of the people. Yeah.
- [61:20]
Joe Rogan
No, it was not. The weigh ins were nuts. When we first walked out, I was like, holy. This is crazy. But, but it just shows how hyped people were for this event, you know, I mean, it was an incredible event. I mean, the UFC production team, they just knocked it out of the park. And then more importantly, you knocked it out of the park.
- [61:37]
Justin Gaethje
It could not have gone better.
- [61:38]
Joe Rogan
It couldn't have gone better. And the, the most important thing was that you did have to overcome that. We did see a real back and forth, and we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound for pound farter in the world. I mean, his fucking boxing is elite.
- [61:53]
Trevor Wittman
It is so sharpshooter.
- [61:55]
Justin Gaethje
And I mean, my coach is a fucking genius. I mean, when it comes to, like, again, it's really hard to. You always sound right in hindsight, but the strategy we had was so perfect to fight a guy like that. I mean, if I think if you ask him right now, which way was Justin moving, he's gonna think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so, so heavy and I lean over to that side, but I was moving left the entire time. And he's so pointed that, you know, he's powerful here, but when you, when you put him here, like, nobody can push and sprint. Like, he's not ever going to take off sprinting that way as fast as he can. He's gonna have to gather and reset and then, and then point and then go. And I constantly kept readjusting him, and it was so subtle. And that's what fighting is. It's subtle, subtle movements. But I mean, his game plan was, was. And then his game plan, his mind, my ability, but really it's my athletic ability. Like, if people don't understand how athletic I am, and I think that is what surprises every opponent I've ever fought, is how, you know, herky, jerky, twitchy, how explosive and how athletic I am. And I think that's the biggest asset that I have.
- [63:20]
Joe Rogan
Why do you think anybody be surprised by that at this stage? Why do you think they're surprised?
- [63:24]
Justin Gaethje
Because the human. Because it doesn't look like that.
- [63:26]
Trevor Wittman
No. Justin, I think you're looking into the Patty fight. I feel like the Patty fight, because a lot of people were like, oh, you look older, you look this. Because the way we fought, like our style, our game.
- [63:37]
Justin Gaethje
How sweet is that? Now, Now, I mean, if you watched a paddy fight, you would never expect. You would only expect punches coming from here.
- [63:43]
Trevor Wittman
Yes. That's all I threw because he would
- [63:45]
Justin Gaethje
pull and I had to like, wrangle
- [63:47]
Trevor Wittman
him in, wrangle him in.
- [63:48]
Justin Gaethje
And this guy, no shots like palm strikes.
- [63:51]
Trevor Wittman
Like, we need to palm strike him. We need to keep him inside of our loop. And if you're throwing straight shots at Patty, Patty will disengage. Be very long with his. His upper body, so he was throwing wild shots. And then long uppercuts, like stay on the outside when you're throwing the uppercuts. Because Patty's got very good knees coming in. So we can't get too deep with that very simple plan. But also it was like make it chaotic. As most chaotic as you could be to be able to do that. Because Patty, his blitzing was very fast. He's a very good blitzer. He'll. He'll blitz past you and almost like running type of punches like old Vitor Belfort. But this fight is a lot different where it's now elbows in. We have to be tied in these types of positions and we need to step to his center and get on his back foot line or outside of his back foot line. And that was like a key factor to this one, is because Ilya is very front heavy and will bounce back and forth. So once he goes to this angle, we need to attack the rear shoulder. And once he starts to reset now we're going to be able to jab and stick the jab at the rear shoulder. Where your jab was landing, that's my favorite part, is the jab wasn't landing here, where Ilya's got a very good slide. We're jabbing outside. So you're not doing inside jab coming under. You're jabbing from outside your shoulder, which is pushing him on his rear foot. And then once we started to pressure. My favorite part is the jab. Jab paws, right hand, his left foot. Justin's left foot when we go, has to be. Has to be outside his rear foot. Like right there. He opened his lead foot and he got his foot outside. And that's also. So in case the right hand.
- [65:15]
Joe Rogan
That was a giant moment in the fight.
- [65:17]
Trevor Wittman
The sound of it was crazy.
- [65:19]
Justin Gaethje
I wanted to sell his ass.
- [65:20]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that was such a hard shot.
- [65:22]
Trevor Wittman
Do that one more time, Jamie. And watch his lead foot after the jab. Now watch his left foot after the jet, outside the rear foot.
- [65:28]
Justin Gaethje
Foot.
- [65:29]
Trevor Wittman
Boom. And that because he's got a high shoulder. If. If I'm throwing a right hand down this point. If you were looking at me, Joe, if you're. If. If I'm here. If he gets his foot out now, the shot is coming from here. So we were able to put him on the back foot and find that over because ne's got a very good shoulder tack.
- [65:44]
Joe Rogan
He also dropped that right hand down. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. And it was such a giant moment in the fight.
- [65:51]
Justin Gaethje
Like, look where I started. I started with my back to us. And look how. Left, left, left, left, left.
- [66:00]
Trevor Wittman
But if you go out to the left backwards, where. That's where Ilya, to me, is the best. How we stop Volk where he'll throw at you and then you go. And then. Then he readjusts his lead shoulder almost to a salpa. Super dangerous there. That was one thing we talk about. We cannot go backwards to the left because that's where we get square. And Iliad, dude, his. He's very front heavy, so he will attack you quick, quick. And he gets there fast.
- [66:23]
Joe Rogan
Well, if he can recover from this, it's going to be a big lesson. A big lesson learned. And, you know, I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before.
- [66:32]
Justin Gaethje
There's no way.
- [66:34]
Trevor Wittman
He better not, dude. His. His team, that's. That's up to his coaches, to be honest with you.
- [66:37]
Joe Rogan
It's. It's amazing. Hubris is an amazing thing. Like, it. It. People love that kind of confidence. They love that belief in themselves and when someone pulls it off. People were talking for days about the Oliveira fight. You know, he celebrated the night before. Isn't that crazy?
- [66:51]
Trevor Wittman
And it worked that time, and it played out for him.
- [66:53]
Joe Rogan
But the lack of experience being the nail, so much experience being the hammer.
- [66:59]
Justin Gaethje
And. And also, he never thought he would have to be here.
- [67:03]
Joe Rogan
But you keep saying, I wanted to go back to this thing that you said, that people don't think you're athletic. And I don't agree with that. I don't understand why I think that. I mean, watches the Michael Johnson fight, even when you think you're.
- [67:16]
Justin Gaethje
I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college, and I did a cartwheel to a backflip, and these guys, two. One guy was like, I Would have never guessed you could do some like that. Like. I just don't understand. You know, if you look at me, I don't look like an athlete, but.
- [67:33]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, you want a Ferrari?
- [67:34]
Justin Gaethje
No, I. I know. I know how athletic I am. I just.
- [67:38]
Joe Rogan
What are you talking about?
- [67:39]
Justin Gaethje
The perception.
- [67:40]
Joe Rogan
No, no, no. Your perception's crazy. Listen, you look like an athlete. What the are you talking about?
- [67:45]
Trevor Wittman
He. Dude, he sent me this picture when I first met him from. He went up to do a clinic with his coach up in Granby with Ben Charenton. And he sends me this video. I don't know why I opened it up. And he's got a soccer ball, and he's in this auditorium with the pads down on the ground, and he's got his phone set up on the pads that are against the wall. He throws a soccer ball up in the air, and he does one of those bicycle kicks. He played just, like, one or two years. He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet, and the ball knocked the phone off. The freaking thing, dude, he hit the freaking ph. It was the coolest thing I've ever seen. I was like, bro, you are nuts. This guy snowboarding, when we snowboard, because I rode professional when I was younger, got taken out of high school for it, and he. This dude, he would catch things so fast, and his tumbling. There was one time we were watching him, and he was in moguls, and moguls suck on a snowboard. He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back and bounces off one of the moguls to a backflip, right back into the moguls and through these people on this. I thought he meant to do that shit. They were like, dude. I was like, bro, his tumbling skills, dude, you're for nuts. You are an athlete. I think everybody knows you're an athlete.
- [68:51]
Joe Rogan
Well, you're not built like Paulo Costa, if that's what you mean. Yeah, you know, it's like, you're not.
- [68:56]
Justin Gaethje
You.
- [68:56]
Joe Rogan
You know, there's. There's guys that have less body fat than you, and guys have more prominent muscles than you, but nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic. That's crazy.
- [69:04]
Trevor Wittman
I think it's the experts after the Patty fight saying, oh, he looks sloppy, and some fights got to be sloppy.
- [69:10]
Joe Rogan
Those people are. That fight looked like. Like chaos. Looked like you were going to press him. And you.
- [69:16]
Trevor Wittman
You, you.
- [69:16]
Joe Rogan
It also looked like you were kind of disdainful of his. His ability to hurt you.
- [69:21]
Trevor Wittman
There you go. You know, exactly yeah, once.
- [69:24]
Justin Gaethje
Once. I didn't respect his power. I was like, I'm walking through.
- [69:27]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And that's what it looked like. It looked like you were just. Just trying to make it as chaotic as possible.
- [69:32]
Trevor Wittman
You make it sound like you had, like, a water boy. Like someone was like, the water sucks, and he's, like, making the noises there.
- [69:40]
Joe Rogan
No, you don't.
- [69:41]
Trevor Wittman
Look. You.
- [69:42]
Joe Rogan
You. But that's also probably a good thing that you think about yourself that way, you know, because it forces you to rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you, you know? And I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because Ilia was so dangerous, you had to get, like, deep in the zone. You couldn't have a moment. Like, the Max fight. You could.
- [70:05]
Justin Gaethje
Well, it was. The Max fight got me here. Without that, I would have never been as hungry. I said it was gonna happen, and it didn't happen. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. Then it happened. It's like, okay, now I can. I can never let my parents see me like that again. That was. That was a driving factor. Like, I can never let my mom. I remember getting knocked out. I don't remember getting knocked out. I got knocked out. I don't remember anything. I don't remember him getting his hand raised. And it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour. And then I just. My first recollection is being in the ambulance and seeing my mom's face.
- [70:39]
Trevor Wittman
Can I tell you that? Can I tell that story?
- [70:40]
Justin Gaethje
Story? Yeah. Yeah. Tell me what I did, because I still don't know.
- [70:42]
Trevor Wittman
So we're in the ambulance. Okay. And
- [70:47]
Justin Gaethje
you were there when I came back.
- [70:49]
Trevor Wittman
Your mom's standing outside the back doors, and we're waiting for the driver. The. The. The. There's a medic in there with us. But he's. He's good, but he keeps asking the same question over and over.
- [70:56]
Justin Gaethje
I still don't remember any of this.
- [70:57]
Trevor Wittman
And I'm worried about, like, you know, everybody's parents are different on how they react, you know? And his mom was just cool. Just, like, I was so impressed. I was so impressed with her just spirit of seeing that happen, but just is laying there, and he's like. He's cool and everything he does. So he's got, like, this cool, like, lay. Like, he's like. He's like. You know, just got stopped, and he's laying there, and he's like. He'll look at me, and he gets, like, his head. He's like, I got knocked Out. And I was like, yeah, it's like 40.
- [71:24]
Justin Gaethje
This is like 40.
- [71:24]
Trevor Wittman
What round? What round? And I said, last second of the fight. And he goes, good for him, dude. Then, dude, I'm telling you, like two minutes ago by. And we'd just be having normal conversation and he'd look at me. I get knocked out. And I was like, yep, dude. It happened over and over. Yes. But him saying good for him, the way he said it every time that he came back to it, like, that's the type of person Justin is. Like, if he lose in competition, the better man won that night. And that to me is something that stands out to me.
- [71:57]
Joe Rogan
That's character.
- [71:58]
Trevor Wittman
Character of him saying when he does it that that subconscious trust traits that
- [72:02]
Joe Rogan
you have, that character is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential.
- [72:06]
Trevor Wittman
Absolutely.
- [72:06]
Joe Rogan
Because you're not being held back by any ego things.
- [72:09]
Trevor Wittman
Not fake.
- [72:10]
Joe Rogan
Because there's a lot of people that are held back as good as they are. They don't ever reach their full potential because they have some ego problems.
- [72:17]
Trevor Wittman
Absolutely. They care of what everybody thinks.
- [72:19]
Joe Rogan
And that in that situation, losing that fight in the last second of the last round and having that reaction, that is the truest tested character that a man is ever going to go through.
- [72:29]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [72:30]
Joe Rogan
That is as true a test of character ever in front of the whole world.
- [72:33]
Justin Gaethje
What I remember first to see my mom's face though, so our face. And I saw no concern. I just. She was worried about me, but she was not concerned.
- [72:42]
Joe Rogan
Chosen. Freaked out.
- [72:43]
Justin Gaethje
No, she wasn't freaked out at all. I was like. And that's when I. I never. I never reset and asked if I had got knocked out again after that moment. I don't think.
- [72:52]
Trevor Wittman
No, no. Once it happened for probably. I'd say you probably asked it six or seven times. And then once. Then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital. They were totally cool. The cool part about this, Joe, is those are some of my. And it sucks because he's taking a shot like this. But me as a coach and as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and what these guys do is those are my proudest moments, winning a fight like this. It was proud and, you know, take it in. You're going, wow, this is a cool spot to be in. And you have to be great. Grateful for it. But there's times where I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down. Like when. When Kamaru got kicked and I stood next to him with the biggest smile just because I'm like, dude, you went out on your shield. You were looking so good and this is the way you stand up. Again, so important to me. Justin Salas one time with Tim Means. It was one of my proudest moments just to see his, his subconscious. Like, I love the mindset, dude. Tim Means hits him with a knee and he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground and his right leg is still like moving and he's like still punching and he's out. And I'm like, dude, that's a fighting spirit. Like, there is no quitted. Like you're, you're fighting through being knocked out. And subconsciously he's still in the fight and his body is still reacting that way. Instead of shelling up and being like, I just got rocked, I'm gonna shell up. I could not wait to get in the octagon. And they're like not trying to let me in. I'm like, let me just get over to him and sit next to him, put some ice on him back. When we stop, guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first. To me, that's, that's the coolest part is being able to see someone go out there and do their best and then to watch them come back. And that's why I'm very, I'm very excited to kind of see what happens with Ilia. This is going to be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he does because he's, he's, he's that talented. If he takes the right lessons, that's going to be a super inspirational thing to overcome. It's going to be hard, but I, I sure hope we get to witness him that.
- [74:46]
Joe Rogan
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- [77:02]
Justin Gaethje
I've also really focused on getting bigger last three or four fights.
- [77:06]
Joe Rogan
Yeah,
- [77:08]
Trevor Wittman
you were 83 in a Patty fight of Wayne.
- [77:10]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I was 83.
- [77:11]
Trevor Wittman
183 in a Patty fight. So he was.
- [77:14]
Justin Gaethje
I touched 80s this fight. We waited on Saturday. 11. Saturday when I went to bed, I think I was 184.
- [77:21]
Joe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- [77:22]
Justin Gaethje
And then I think when I woke up, I was like 176. That's how much water flow. It's crazy. Our bodies are crazy, right?
- [77:29]
Joe Rogan
Especially because all the weight cut.
- [77:30]
Justin Gaethje
But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much, I was actually too hydrated for the drug test. So I had to piss three, three times. I couldn't drink water.
- [77:39]
Joe Rogan
You were too hydrated for a drug test?
- [77:41]
Justin Gaethje
How's that? Yeah. So if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again. Really?
- [77:47]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, that's. That's why, you know, doing it after a fight. I used to do it after the fight all the time, but your adrenaline's gone, so you don't pee. So it takes a long time. Like, we've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test. But when you're doing it after, like, rehydration, that's a shitty thing because these guys have to hydrate, hydrate. Everybody's taking as much fluids as they can, so that makes it tough but with the weight cutting piece, with him going back down, I agree with you. I think Illy is a smaller body, but he's also a big advantage for Ilya. Speed. And when you go up in weight, that speed is a huge factor. If you see a lot of guys go up, like with Max, Max kept it, kept his speed. When he came up, he, when he went back down, I think, you know, everybody was like, oh, he beat Max. He beat a drained Max.
- [78:26]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. I think that weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal.
- [78:30]
Trevor Wittman
That's. And this is where from, like a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight. I care about the longevity of a person and I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts.
- [78:42]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [78:43]
Trevor Wittman
And that going back down, that's to me the scariest part in this fight game.
- [78:49]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think there's two things we have to change the fight game. One of them is weight cutting and two of them is your gloves.
- [78:54]
Trevor Wittman
Bring your fucking gloves in.
- [78:55]
Joe Rogan
But the weight cutting thing, don't you think, think that we need more weight classes or I should say that, I should say, do you think we need more weight classes?
- [79:04]
Trevor Wittman
I think there's, there's, there's many ways. Like I think you're going to have to have some type of a, a weight class and there's different ways to do it. Like maybe you, you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight and you weigh in a week out where you can really recover.
- [79:19]
Joe Rogan
Because I think guys are going to do it anyway and you're just gonna.
- [79:22]
Justin Gaethje
But I think, I think, think for me, I want nothing to change. I mean we are grown ass men and women and we're making these choices.
- [79:30]
Joe Rogan
Right. But you can make 55 and it's good for your frame. Now imagine how hard it is for
- [79:35]
Justin Gaethje
me to make 55.
- [79:36]
Joe Rogan
Sure, it's hard. No, no, no, I'm not thinking it's easy. But you can make it. You've made it over and over and over again. But like think about guys that are in between.
- [79:43]
Ad Guest/Announcer
Yeah.
- [79:43]
Trevor Wittman
Like should be a 60 year or 65 or like in boxing, 70 to 85 is crazy.
- [79:48]
Joe Rogan
80 to 205 is bananas. And then 205 to 265, that's.
- [79:53]
Justin Gaethje
Those weight classes are already watered down in a way and so you're just going to water it down more.
- [79:59]
Trevor Wittman
So these are my thoughts and my research that I've done that I've talked to Dr. D about it. And I want to get some expert, some doctor who can actually talk to me about this. Because when I started researching boxing and why is there so many deaths in boxing? What stood out to me was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years. There's every once in a while, it's from a punch where they get dropped and they don't get up and they get hemorrhaging. Almost all of them are past the ninth round, especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch. They're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired and they're just like, hey, I need to take a knee and lay down. A lot of these guys are winning the fight and not even taking a lot of damage. And if we're cutting weight the day before, you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat to me, I believe, because I've had a fighter where, you know, Kamal, in his last fight, we were cramping so bad, so scary, so freaking scary. Like, I almost called off, dude. I was within like, like minutes of calling. I talked to the whole team about it. But. But if you dehydrate yourself, think of my lips, if they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile. And if you dehydrate your brain, and I had talked to Dr. D, I was like, could that be something? If you dehydrate your brain would cause something? He's like, absolutely. And then I started to research that. But if you go back and look at all the boxers and if we can get someone that could do their true research that understands this stuff, that to me is like what scares me about weight cutting. Because you're training your body to lose that amount of weight. And when you start to do things in pattern, you just D took all the nutrients out of your body and then you're going hard in a fight like that. And that was like the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight. That's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give no water for a five round fight. That is crazy. And the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration, why didn't
- [81:49]
Joe Rogan
you give him water? You just forgot, dude?
- [81:50]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, we were locked in.
- [81:51]
Trevor Wittman
This guy don't train with water. So it was like, dude, yeah, I don't drink water.
- [81:54]
Justin Gaethje
I train my practice. Because everyone's like, you want why? I'm like, water for no, I don't want water.
- [81:59]
Trevor Wittman
Talk about the vice.
- [82:00]
Joe Rogan
You don't drink any water in training at all?
- [82:03]
Trevor Wittman
No. He'll drink afterwards. Afterwards. Like we did this fight.
- [82:05]
Justin Gaethje
They made me this.
- [82:06]
Joe Rogan
Okay, so do you think that. That. That Luke is my water boy?
- [82:11]
Justin Gaethje
No, because I. It doesn't. It can't. Because I'm working right now. I'm locked in. Like, I might not get water one day. You know, there might. I might want water.
- [82:21]
Joe Rogan
Even when you're doing strength and conditioning, everything, nothing.
- [82:23]
Justin Gaethje
I never drink water.
- [82:25]
Trevor Wittman
Wow.
- [82:25]
Joe Rogan
So you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there.
- [82:27]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I drink a lot after and.
- [82:29]
Joe Rogan
But once you're in there, you're just
- [82:31]
Trevor Wittman
going, yeah, this fight was. Was different.
- [82:32]
Joe Rogan
But that's crazy. That's crazy.
- [82:35]
Justin Gaethje
That's just me. That's.
- [82:36]
Joe Rogan
You hear about those guys that go through Ramadan, you know, Ramadan's nuts. Like, I know Bilal was training with no water and, you know, drinking no water during the day and then training again at night time. And, you know, that's. That's got to be so hard. But going through hard training sessions and no water. So you're doing. But. So there's two things going on. One, I would think maybe you could do more work and get more round. More reps and more this if you're rehydrating. But then the other thing is, like, would you. And how much mental toughness are you getting by? Not water.
- [83:13]
Trevor Wittman
Right.
- [83:14]
Justin Gaethje
It's a crutch.
- [83:14]
Joe Rogan
And the mental toughness thing ultimately won you this fight. There is a lot of human beings at the top. Top level of the sport that would have folded in that second round.
- [83:24]
Trevor Wittman
You did look the happiest of the Tony Ferguson fan. That look you gave me when you had a lot of.
- [83:28]
Justin Gaethje
Not once, not for one second did I contemplate that I was done.
- [83:31]
Joe Rogan
No, I mean, you. That's. That's how you hit me.
- [83:34]
Trevor Wittman
I was like, oh, Did you get to hear him in the corner? He goes, dude, that was a good body shot. I was like, yeah, that was a sweet body shot. Dude. Who does that? I know who sits down is like, dude, the look on his face wasn't like. Like eyebrows, like a. Like a. A frame cabin.
- [83:52]
Joe Rogan
Well, even after the fight, you were talking about how skilled he was. Was you. You were talking about.
- [83:56]
Trevor Wittman
I mean,
- [83:59]
Justin Gaethje
I could go. I could go so many different ways with how I react to this fight. I just want it to be known how disrespectful he would have been if he beat me, if he put me to sleep, if his. I mean, can you Imagine how shitty he would have been. And I mean, it would have, it would have. If it was. And the world, the world would have been like they're doing to him right now. Fighting for so much. Crazy. I was fighting for so much that night. Yeah. You know, I'm never going to let people. For one, I know how special what I've done is, and it would have taken all of it away with a loss, and I wasn't going to let that happen.
- [84:37]
Trevor Wittman
How about the people calling his loaded gloves? Do you see the picture? The, the, the image? There's, like, rocks in his hands.
- [84:45]
Justin Gaethje
What a compliment.
- [84:45]
Trevor Wittman
Have they not watched any of his fights?
- [84:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [84:47]
Justin Gaethje
What? People saying, I'm juice. What a compliment. People saying, I got bricks in my gloves. What a compliment.
- [84:55]
Joe Rogan
People are silly. You can't read the Internet. There's always going to be someone saying something.
- [84:59]
Justin Gaethje
I know, but again, you go, I got here because I was petty. I, I, I read comments. I read comments.
- [85:06]
Joe Rogan
They fuel you.
- [85:07]
Trevor Wittman
They do, they do. I've, I've talked to him. I've told them not to do it because it, I'm like, bro, this with so many people, just, we had the conversation outside, like, it's, it'll cause your mind to go crazy. And he's like, I love it so much.
- [85:19]
Joe Rogan
David Goggins takes haters and he records them on a loop and then plays it to himself while he runs. Yeah.
- [85:26]
Justin Gaethje
I mean, that's crazy. I don't, I don't need to have, I don't need to have it on video. I know. Right? I know what they're saying. I knew what they were saying every day.
- [85:35]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [85:35]
Justin Gaethje
And that's, you know, partly why I won.
- [85:39]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's, you know that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena, you know?
- [85:43]
Trevor Wittman
Yep.
- [85:44]
Joe Rogan
That's what it is. It's like there's always going to be people on the sidelines that are talking.
- [85:47]
Justin Gaethje
You're never gonna make it. It's impossible.
- [85:49]
Trevor Wittman
Especially at the levels that you're fighting.
- [85:50]
Justin Gaethje
As ambitious as you are, you can never make everybody happy.
- [85:53]
Joe Rogan
No.
- [85:53]
Trevor Wittman
That's why it's hard to be a champion. Sucks the pressure.
- [85:56]
Justin Gaethje
You know, it really is detrimental to, like, overall, like, what you're trying to achieve, and it's just. It's so hard.
- [86:05]
Joe Rogan
Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy, period. It's not like you being awesome. You want them to be. Yeah, but some people are not. They're not healthy. They're not mentally healthy. Their brain isn't right. They they haven't done the right things in their life, and they see success as being somehow or another. It steals their own personal joy. Other people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they realize that they suck.
- [86:31]
Justin Gaethje
I love seeing things happen, good things happen for people. Like, because when Max knocked me, I was like, good for him. Like, imagine what he's feeling right now.
- [86:39]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. But because you have given everything you have. You've truly maximized your potential. You've made mistakes, you've made great decisions, and ultimately, you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time. Not to exceed, but that's why you can be happy.
- [86:55]
Justin Gaethje
For other people to exceed your expectations from 2017, to exceed his expectations from 2011, to exceed my own expectations is. I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel. You know, in general, like, that was my goal.
- [87:15]
Joe Rogan
You didn't exceed a man. You.
- [87:17]
Trevor Wittman
You.
- [87:17]
Joe Rogan
I always had a feeling that you were going to do some wild. And after the Tony Ferguson, you couldn't
- [87:22]
Justin Gaethje
have said I was going to do this.
- [87:25]
Joe Rogan
There was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out. Those are like, I don't think. I think he can win this fight 100%. I mean, I said it on the podcast. I even said it to Ilia. Like, Ilia was saying it was.
- [87:36]
Trevor Wittman
I was.
- [87:36]
Justin Gaethje
I've seen that podcast. And he was so wrong so many times. You know, not just the whole, he has zero chance against Patty. He said something about how I probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much. And it's like, you were so. You don't remember him saying that? He said that. He says something about weed, and you're like, I don't care about weed.
- [87:56]
Joe Rogan
Sweet.
- [87:57]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. But for him to think that that's true is insane.
- [88:01]
Trevor Wittman
And you have five looses, dude. Now he's got one lucid. He's gonna have.
- [88:07]
Justin Gaethje
I was like, wow. I was like, wow, what a idiot. You know, like, to think that I got here by just being a. A guy that drinks and, you know, has fun all the time. Like, that's crazy. My life is so boring. I don't go to bars. I mean, I don't do any of that. That I sleep. I sleep eight to 10 hours every single night. I was sleeping 10, but it's too much. So now I have to sleep eight. But for this whole week, I was sleeping 12 hours every single night of the fight week.
- [88:39]
Joe Rogan
That's nice.
- [88:40]
Justin Gaethje
It was so nice.
- [88:41]
Joe Rogan
That is nice. You know, it's just one of those things if he wanted to watch your. You have a YouTube channel he could watch.
- [88:47]
Justin Gaethje
Well, I mean, there's also something to be said about how I knew he was watching. If you go back to my other. Like, we'll always show sparring. We'll always show me hitting mitts. I didn't show myself any mitts one time this camp. I didn't show myself sparring one time
- [88:59]
Trevor Wittman
this camp, purposely, because we were switching up the game plan big time. Like the tight punches.
- [89:04]
Justin Gaethje
No, he had. He had expectations, but they were. None of them were based in reality. And I controlled that.
- [89:12]
Joe Rogan
That's awesome.
- [89:13]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. And then, you know, when I did make the. When I did make the comment about his wife, you know, it was in a. In an interview like this, where we're just fucking around, and I said it in jest. I didn't. Yeah, it was 100 true. I was like, he's so fucking annoying. I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him, you know, with his pompous attitude, you know, and you just trying to, like, hang out with the guy, but he's, like, constantly stealing all the thunder, and it's irrational, and it's like, I would leave him, too. Like, I mean, if that's my part, like, that's why I broke up with my girlfriends, is because they were somewhat like that. I mean, and so I. I didn't mean it in a mean way. Like, I. I would never dig at somebody, and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience, but that was, like, on. That was just my honest take.
- [90:06]
Trevor Wittman
You are the honest guy, and I was joking.
- [90:08]
Justin Gaethje
But. But it was true.
- [90:10]
Trevor Wittman
You just say what you.
- [90:11]
Justin Gaethje
I said so many true things to him.
- [90:13]
Joe Rogan
Him.
- [90:13]
Justin Gaethje
I said the. So many. I told him that he's gonna go to the second round, go to the third round. You're gonna be. Because you're not gonna be able to pull yourself out of this, you know, with the way that you're thinking. There's no possible way you can have these expectations, face adversity, and then come out in a positive way. There's no way it could happen. You're good. You could dig deep, and you could be even more of a narcissist, and it might work. But you. You know, you're gonna. You're gonna walk yourself into a situation that. That is going to be detrimental to you, and this is detrimental to his psyche. And this is 90 mental. Well, so again, I want to see
- [90:50]
Joe Rogan
him, how he adjusts to the loss. But, you know, we'll see how honest
- [90:55]
Justin Gaethje
he will be with himself.
- [90:56]
Joe Rogan
The strategy has to change that.
- [90:59]
Trevor Wittman
You.
- [90:59]
Joe Rogan
You can't just hit the gas like that. And we've seen that with boxers. We've seen that with all kinds of fighters. They just. Just think they can just hit the gas. Well, obviously, you had to make your own adjustments.
- [91:09]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [91:10]
Trevor Wittman
You know, how he overcame the. The max fight, how he adjusted. Sorry, you guys.
- [91:18]
Joe Rogan
Didn't you play golf every day for a year? That's how you.
- [91:20]
Justin Gaethje
Six months straight.
- [91:21]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [91:22]
Justin Gaethje
Every day.
- [91:22]
Trevor Wittman
Every day. Dude, this guy got really good.
- [91:25]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. DC was raving about it. He's like, I never seen anything like it. He goes, this guy's playing golf like he's been playing for years.
- [91:31]
Trevor Wittman
That's crazy.
- [91:32]
Joe Rogan
It's really good. Really funny. It's. Well, you know, that's the mindset. That's coachable. That's a coachable mindset. Competitive and also objective. You know, it's the same reason why you think you're not athletic. It's like you. You can look at yourself in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make. Where a lot of people are delusional.
- [91:51]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [91:52]
Joe Rogan
And that delusional keeps you from getting good at everything in life, what you perceive.
- [91:56]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, you got it. Perspective is everything. Everything. Like, how are you seeing things? And you always got to see it from the internal. Not. Not sp. Not peaks and valleys like this right here. Like, we come home, and even through the airport, we're like, there's no celebration. I can see it is what it is.
- [92:09]
Joe Rogan
Afterwards, like, celebration.
- [92:12]
Trevor Wittman
At the airport, what we did. Someone was buying us drinks. Like, we got there. We got there a little bit early.
- [92:16]
Joe Rogan
Should have been a parade.
- [92:19]
Justin Gaethje
I know, but I don't want that.
- [92:20]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I know. I know you don't.
- [92:22]
Justin Gaethje
I don't want.
- [92:23]
Joe Rogan
You don't.
- [92:25]
Justin Gaethje
But I have to do it because. Because I do need to take advantage. Like, I am the champion. It's crazy. Still can't fathom it, but I am the champion, and I need to. I need to be the champion and be the. Enjoy being the champion for a little bit.
- [92:39]
Trevor Wittman
And you need you to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, there's times to sit back and have bliss where you're like, man, I freaking did it. Like, there's times to really.
- [92:47]
Justin Gaethje
I thought. I thought that would come.
- [92:49]
Trevor Wittman
Doesn't mean you run down, yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no clothes on and make bad decisions. You're like, what was that from? Oh, dude, we did three fifths of vodka.
- [93:00]
Joe Rogan
Are you going to continue fighting right now?
- [93:03]
Justin Gaethje
I'm planning on it, yeah. Every.
- [93:05]
Joe Rogan
You were talking about going out again.
- [93:07]
Justin Gaethje
There's not, there's not something natural in me that feels like it's over. So that's all I can say also
- [93:13]
Joe Rogan
after a performance like that.
- [93:16]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I mean I'm obviously either way
- [93:18]
Joe Rogan
though capitalize cuz the financial reward.
- [93:22]
Justin Gaethje
Financial capital A. I'm in a place where it's like I deserve to be compensated for what I have done 100%, not for what I'm going to do or I don't. I shouldn't have to fight next to be like UFC 300, UFC 324 and now this. Those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to, to do something phenomenal and they picked me every single time and, and I delivered. I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but co main event still stole the show even though I lost. And so I think I, I need to be compensated for, for what I've done. That's where I'm at.
- [94:00]
Joe Rogan
So you talking about in the future for like a next fight?
- [94:03]
Justin Gaethje
Like.
- [94:04]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, renegotia.
- [94:06]
Justin Gaethje
No, no, no, I'm not talking about for the next fight. I'm talking about the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company and you know, so I can build passive income like that. Like I'm not saying that's what.
- [94:19]
Joe Rogan
Have you talked to them about something?
- [94:20]
Justin Gaethje
No, no, I would, I would. I've never ask. Luckily I have a personal assistant now, so she asks for things for me, but I've never been the guy that asks for things. I wish, I wish people that were options of me that ask for things and get all kind of things. I wish I was given those things without asking because obviously people know that it's appreciated and I like it, but I'm not ever going to like. I'm not taking this truck from Armin. There's absolutely no way I would take a truck. He never shook my hand.
- [94:46]
Joe Rogan
Oh, this is Armin Tsarukian. We should explain that. So Armin Tsarukian, he, He bet a million dollars on Justin, his friend, and won. He won like five, three, I believe.
- [94:59]
Trevor Wittman
Five seven.
- [94:59]
Joe Rogan
Five seven is what I heard.
- [95:00]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. Yeah. So he's gonna buy me a truck, but I mean I would have a truck. Wow. No, I just saw yours get a Raptor. I have a Shelby. I have a Shelby Raptor.
- [95:10]
Joe Rogan
Those are pretty dope.
- [95:11]
Justin Gaethje
But I, I think now that I've seen your truck, that Will be my next truck.
- [95:15]
Joe Rogan
Also, it has USA on the side.
- [95:17]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [95:17]
Joe Rogan
You see the wrap I love.
- [95:18]
Trevor Wittman
So that's that. You didn't do that rap.
- [95:21]
Joe Rogan
Hennessy's the.
- [95:22]
Justin Gaethje
I want that truck.
- [95:23]
Joe Rogan
Oh, you need that truck?
- [95:24]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [95:25]
Joe Rogan
Tell Armin buy you that truck.
- [95:26]
Justin Gaethje
No, I'm not taking the truck. What the.
- [95:28]
Joe Rogan
If I was arming, I would force it down your throat. I would, I would deliver it to your house and give you a hug.
- [95:32]
Justin Gaethje
No way.
- [95:32]
Joe Rogan
You want him 5 million 700 around
- [95:36]
Justin Gaethje
in a truck that a dude bought for me every day. I don't know. I just can't go there.
- [95:40]
Joe Rogan
Truck. You won that.
- [95:41]
Justin Gaethje
We didn't shake on it. He does not owe it to you.
- [95:44]
Joe Rogan
I don't give a. Take that guy right there with you, Joe. Yeah, take the truck, dude. It's. First of all, it's cool.
- [95:50]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [95:50]
Joe Rogan
And he might also be your next opponent. Yeah, I mean, that's possible.
- [95:55]
Justin Gaethje
That's.
- [95:55]
Joe Rogan
That's the guy. Yeah, I mean, he's the guy.
- [95:57]
Justin Gaethje
The guy that's up.
- [95:58]
Joe Rogan
That's the guy. I mean, if there's anybody else in the division, that, that is the guy. I mean, now that Islam is up at 170, who else is there? That's the guy.
- [96:06]
Justin Gaethje
I agree.
- [96:07]
Joe Rogan
Yeah. And what a division. I mean, holy. And now Charles is saying he wants, that he wants to fight you. Division has been BMF and, and the lightweight title on the line. That would be crazy. So there's fights available?
- [96:21]
Trevor Wittman
Yes, there is.
- [96:22]
Joe Rogan
Big, big. What do you, what are your thoughts like when you're thinking about competing? Who do you think it will be? You think it'll be Armen?
- [96:29]
Justin Gaethje
No. No, I, I, I can't say that. I have a name.
- [96:33]
Joe Rogan
Do you think Ely's going to try for a rematch?
- [96:35]
Justin Gaethje
No, he doesn't get a rematch. He can try, but he doesn't get one.
- [96:38]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [96:39]
Justin Gaethje
He quit on the stool. He quit twice. I stopped him twice. What else do I have to do? Plus, his next challenge can't be me. He needs to fight Patty or someone like that is.
- [96:50]
Joe Rogan
Does Patty have a fight scheduled?
- [96:52]
Justin Gaethje
I think he's fighting St. Denis.
- [96:54]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [96:54]
Joe Rogan
That's a tough fight.
- [96:55]
Trevor Wittman
It is.
- [96:56]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [96:56]
Joe Rogan
Benoit's a beast.
- [96:57]
Justin Gaethje
Game. It's a crazy game.
- [96:59]
Joe Rogan
It's a crazy game. It's the craziest game. This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com jre and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com j r e for 30 off off terms apply.
- [98:07]
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- [99:38]
Joe Rogan
think about where you were when you lost to Max and then where you are now. Just like think of the highs.
- [99:43]
Justin Gaethje
It wasn't that long ago either was
- [99:45]
Joe Rogan
not that long ago.
- [99:46]
Trevor Wittman
Now you got the the the BMF Champ Wanting to fight you.
- [99:50]
Justin Gaethje
I have every belt.
- [99:51]
Trevor Wittman
Like, I have three.
- [99:53]
Justin Gaethje
Three belts. Three real belts, two interims, but those are real belts. A real belt. The BMF belt and then the UFC 250 belt.
- [100:02]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, the UFC 250 belt. There's only two of those.
- [100:05]
Trevor Wittman
So heavy.
- [100:07]
Justin Gaethje
That is being a fan of this sport, like, what? You want to come in here and do things that are not easily attainable, and I've done a few things that are impossible to obtain attainment. Nine bonuses. My first seven fights. Sixteen fights in the UFC. I probably, what, like, 12 main events.
- [100:26]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah. Seventeen bonuses.
- [100:28]
Justin Gaethje
And to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is huge. Like, you know, you go on the poster, not many people get to experience that. And I've done it almost every single time. And so, I mean. Yeah, I mean, it's. I've done something unattainable.
- [100:43]
Joe Rogan
It's gotta feel good.
- [100:44]
Justin Gaethje
Good. It feels great. It feels great.
- [100:47]
Joe Rogan
It should. As a fan.
- [100:48]
Justin Gaethje
It's good. As a fan. It feels good, right?
- [100:53]
Joe Rogan
As a fan of yourself, as a fan of the sport, as a fan of the sport, getting to see what you've done.
- [100:57]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [100:58]
Joe Rogan
What did you think about Seral Gone?
- [101:00]
Justin Gaethje
We didn't do so good to see it.
- [101:01]
Trevor Wittman
We were in.
- [101:02]
Justin Gaethje
We were in the locker room, like, all right, you guys are going to go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing. So they took us into a room with no screens. I, I, that's probably where the video of me shadow boxing with the flag.
- [101:14]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, that's where we were in that.
- [101:16]
Justin Gaethje
We were in there for, like, 30 minutes before I walked. And we could hear, you know, a little bit. You hear the. I heard the ding of the, you know, the end of the round, the horn. I was like, okay, was that round one? Yes. And then you hear nothing. And then I didn't even hear the finish. Like, I didn't hear the crowd roar or anything.
- [101:32]
Trevor Wittman
You couldn't hear the crowd.
- [101:33]
Justin Gaethje
And then I heard. And still. Yep. Right?
- [101:37]
Trevor Wittman
Yep.
- [101:38]
Justin Gaethje
Because he was.
- [101:38]
Trevor Wittman
No, no, no, no. They said and new. Because they were both going to be new. We heard gone. We heard gone.
- [101:45]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, they heard gone. I was like, oh, he won.
- [101:48]
Joe Rogan
And that guy moves like a cat.
- [101:50]
Trevor Wittman
That's. It's crazy. He. For a heavyweight. I love watching heavyweights that can move like, they remember the Mike Tyson era. Just watching. I was. I love Mike. Watching Mike Tyson and just watching all the guys he fought. Heavyweight boxing was so good at that time. People used to jump rope. Not like, like, like, I'm not Going to say that. That all heavyweights are. Are lazy. But, you know, my knees are bad. I'm a big person. Like, those guys can move, and Cyril Khan is one of those guys, but
- [102:14]
Joe Rogan
he's the most so fast. But think about him as he started out as a basketball player. So think about basketball. It's all these plyometrics. You're constantly changing direction and moving and jumping.
- [102:25]
Justin Gaethje
Agility.
- [102:25]
Joe Rogan
Yes, it's all agility. And that translates so brilliantly to his striking style. Because you got a guy who's 248 pounds who moves like a middleweight or moves like even lighter than that. I mean, really moves like a welterweight almost.
- [102:37]
Trevor Wittman
He's fast.
- [102:38]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [102:39]
Joe Rogan
And just very agile. And when you notice it is like, because you know how good Pereira is. And Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that and then drop with a jab, it's like, whoo, yeah.
- [102:49]
Justin Gaethje
Perfect time.
- [102:49]
Trevor Wittman
And it's heavyweights. Like, those are big dudes. Yeah, it. Like, obviously Pereira is put on some weight, but it's framed size. Yeah, it's. You know, and prayer's got a big frame, but it's.
- [103:00]
Joe Rogan
There's levels.
- [103:01]
Trevor Wittman
Your body's been that weight for a long period of time. Like, it's. Again, that consistency. It's a. It's. It's mma. Guy. Going into boxing, you're. Yeah, they're shorter rounds, but you're hitting sprints every round. Like, it's a different. Like there's, There's. You have to do it for a period of time to be able to adjust to that. That's a different. It's everything that you do. You have to slowly go into those positions. You can't just jump into it.
- [103:20]
Joe Rogan
And when you think about how big he was at 205, it maybe would have even been better for him to not really put on much we week.
- [103:28]
Trevor Wittman
I agree. 100.
- [103:29]
Joe Rogan
It's not like Cyril gone's a grappler.
- [103:31]
Trevor Wittman
And you got to be fast.
- [103:32]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, you got to be fast.
- [103:33]
Trevor Wittman
Like, your speed's a factor.
- [103:34]
Joe Rogan
It's a giant factor. And he's got insane power. I mean, his power has always been heavy.
- [103:40]
Trevor Wittman
Absolutely. He's not going to lose it because
- [103:41]
Joe Rogan
he was so big. He was 251. And I was thinking, man, now it's like, even though you have more power, you're also moving around with extra weight on your body. Like you're. You're weighed down more by gravity. I mean, gone looked so light and so loose. He's just like that style for a heavyweight light on the toes. Like, that is so unusual.
- [104:04]
Trevor Wittman
And not allowing Pereira to set his feet.
- [104:06]
Joe Rogan
No, never.
- [104:07]
Trevor Wittman
Like, that's very smart.
- [104:08]
Joe Rogan
And even like feigning takedowns, it's not like he committed to those, but he's got him thinking about. Look at. He drops him with the.
- [104:13]
Trevor Wittman
Brought him into it.
- [104:14]
Joe Rogan
Now, here's the question, because one of the things that Pereira is saying is a lot of. There's a illegal shooter shot. A lot of the shots were illegal into the back of the head, but a lot of them were to the side of the head.
- [104:25]
Justin Gaethje
Close.
- [104:25]
Trevor Wittman
They're close. Because
- [104:28]
Justin Gaethje
when they explain it to you, it's.
- [104:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's a 2 inch line down like a Mohawk.
- [104:35]
Justin Gaethje
This whole. This whole apron right here. But it's like, this is legal. This is legal.
- [104:41]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, this is legal.
- [104:42]
Justin Gaethje
This is illegal. Legal. Illegal.
- [104:44]
Joe Rogan
I mean, a couple of those shots definitely landed illegally, but there's a hammer.
- [104:48]
Trevor Wittman
Fist.
- [104:48]
Joe Rogan
Hammer.
- [104:50]
Trevor Wittman
Did you see him drop his head down to the hips?
- [104:52]
Joe Rogan
Exactly.
- [104:52]
Trevor Wittman
So you're moving.
- [104:54]
Justin Gaethje
That's legal. That's a legal.
- [104:56]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, there's a couple illegal ones.
- [104:58]
Justin Gaethje
There's probably three or four.
- [104:59]
Joe Rogan
Right. But it's also movement and chaos. It's not like he's. Yeah, deliberately.
- [105:04]
Justin Gaethje
That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose. Like, if I was that good, I would touch their chin.
- [105:09]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [105:10]
Justin Gaethje
That's a lot smaller target.
- [105:12]
Trevor Wittman
Was the fight stopped there on the ground?
- [105:13]
Joe Rogan
No, no, it kept going. This is actually the finish of the fight right here.
- [105:17]
Trevor Wittman
That was a finish.
- [105:17]
Joe Rogan
He caught him with a big elbow right here and rocked him. I mean, Pereira was in real trouble. I mean, it was. He got up.
- [105:24]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [105:25]
Joe Rogan
And Serial gone did a fantastic job. He really put it on him.
- [105:28]
Justin Gaethje
Should you ever stop a championship fight?
- [105:31]
Joe Rogan
This is it right here. That was it right there.
- [105:34]
Trevor Wittman
I would have at that point.
- [105:37]
Justin Gaethje
I'm not saying it wasn't. I haven't watched the fight here.
- [105:39]
Joe Rogan
Here's the stoppage right here. You can see it.
- [105:41]
Trevor Wittman
I haven't either. And I'm just watching this. Yeah, that's like.
- [105:43]
Joe Rogan
He felt it was a cumulative. It was so many blows. Maybe he could have taken one or two more after that for sure. But Pereira is pissed off at Herb Dean and he's saying Herb Dean should never referee again because he allowed those shots to the back of the head.
- [105:58]
Trevor Wittman
I mean, you're in the moment. I mean, but that's natural for a fighter to do. Like, like. Well, if the situation you want to bring, first off, you got to bring awareness to it. So they're not, you know, They're. You have to always be aware of, hey, I could have did better here.
- [106:11]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [106:11]
Trevor Wittman
Because that's how we all grow. So we need to do. Need to talk about. But from what I just watched there, and I haven't watched the whole fight. Was the fight competitive at all?
- [106:18]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [106:18]
Trevor Wittman
Okay.
- [106:19]
Joe Rogan
The first round was very competitive, so
- [106:20]
Trevor Wittman
that would change a little thing. But from what I just watched right there at the end, that was. That looked like a good finish to me.
- [106:26]
Justin Gaethje
The refs have such a tough job. I've been, I'm notorious for being really hard on these refs because, I mean, it's. They. You expect them to be you. You need them to be perfect. Their. Their main job is to protect you. When I fought Michael Chandler, I'm still. And again, I only speak about it now because I've never had a retraction from the referee. Whenever he poked me in the eye and then he didn't get in between us and he let him hit me with a huge shot, and then he doesn't give me my time to rest, not rest, to recover. And there was only five seconds left in the round, so it turned out, out that I got a break anyways. But he goes in there, he says, are you good? I said, no, I'm not good. He just poked me in the eye and he says, okay, but are you good? And so then it's like, can I still fight? So then I said, yeah, I'm good. He says, okay, go.
- [107:23]
Joe Rogan
Who, what referee was this?
- [107:24]
Trevor Wittman
The guy with a braid that he puts in his thing.
- [107:26]
Joe Rogan
Oh, Mike Beltron?
- [107:27]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, Mike Beltran. And so I was very upset that he let Michael Chandler land that. That shot. And I, I know why. He was so scared of the fucking heat we were throwing that he didn't want to jump in there and get in the middle of it, but his job is to protect me. And he failed. He failed so bad right there. And so like, after the fact, that's like, I need you to acknowledge this so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there because you up so bad. And, you know, he's trying to justify it and it's like, what the are you doing? How can you justify this? And so that for me, that, that, that, that pisses me off. And then the, the decision not to give me my time, like, I need an explanation, you know, and because I need to know that you are going to learn from this experience. And for right now, I still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. And so I'M still upset about that.
- [108:20]
Joe Rogan
Well, once you say to someone petty, we're petty. You know, you should be in that situation because you say to someone, you got poked in the eye. Are you good? And you're like, yeah, I'm good, but I got poked in the fucking eye. And then you're supposed to say, one or two seconds.
- [108:34]
Justin Gaethje
One or two seconds, but are you good? I said, well, yeah, I'm good. He says, okay, go.
- [108:39]
Joe Rogan
Are you good? Is not the right question. You have five minutes. Are you ready to fight? Can you see? Do you need to bring in a doctor? There's a series of questions, but you have five minutes is very important for a fighter. Getting poked in the eye. You have five minutes to recover.
- [108:55]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I didn't feel like. I didn't know. I didn't know at the point. I feel pressure in my face right now. Like, I don't. This feels.
- [109:01]
Joe Rogan
You're not gonna know for a couple seconds.
- [109:03]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I don't know.
- [109:03]
Joe Rogan
You're gonna. You're gonna blink a little bit. Move around a little bit. All right, I'm good. And that's when you're. It's supposed to be very clear. That's when you're ready to re. Engage.
- [109:12]
Justin Gaethje
And that's what I'm saying. That's the mistake he has to learn from because it was such a. And after the. The round ends, I walk over to him like, dude, get your head out of your ass. What the fuck are you doing? He's like, go to your stool. I was like, no, what the fuck are you doing doing? Like, your job is to protect me. You just let me get hit with a huge shot. What is going on? And he's like, go to your stool. Go to your stool. And I sit down. And then, boom. Never thought about it again, but still pissed off about that one.
- [109:37]
Joe Rogan
You should be. I mean, that's. That makes sense.
- [109:39]
Justin Gaethje
I mean, that's a mistake. Who's the ref that against? Khabib. After the fight, he corners me in the hallway, and he's like, you know, I know you. I know you would never, never, never tap. I was like, I tapped three times. He's like, no, you would never tap. I'm like, I'm like, dude, from the horse's mouth. I'm telling you, I tapped. And he still was like, nah, nah, you wouldn't tap. I was like, what the. How can we get through this? Like, I tapped three times.
- [110:10]
Joe Rogan
I went to sleep, and. You went to sleep. I've seen that.
- [110:12]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, I tapped three times.
- [110:13]
Joe Rogan
100. You tapped 100.
- [110:15]
Justin Gaethje
And he's like, no, you would. You know, I know that you. With your. The way that you, you compete. Who's the referee?
- [110:21]
Trevor Wittman
What's the guy's name?
- [110:22]
Justin Gaethje
I hate to. I don't even want to throw Herzog. I don't even want to throw him under the bus, you know, because it's like his intention. His intentions were good for me, you know, he believed I was.
- [110:31]
Joe Rogan
He gave you a chance.
- [110:32]
Justin Gaethje
He gave me a chance. But like, I tapped, man.
- [110:35]
Joe Rogan
Like, I did the fight should have been.
- [110:36]
Justin Gaethje
And I went to sleep because of it. And luckily there's no detrimental and chronic, you know, long lasting problems because of getting choked out. Out. So, I mean, not like getting. There's no repercussions. Yeah, there's no concussion, there's no tbi. Like, it really is not detrimental at all. As long as you don't hold it too long. And I die. As long as I wake up, I'm good. Right? And so I was like, okay, like, the repercussions aren't as severe. And so like, whatever, I'll just let this go. But ultimately he didn't. I mean, I was tell. Even when I told him, he didn't believe me.
- [111:09]
Trevor Wittman
That was the first thing you said when you jumped up. You went over to him and then you guys had the conversation afterwards, but you went over to him saying, dude, what the. I tapped. He's like, no, you did it. Then we seen him later, but that was.
- [111:19]
Justin Gaethje
No, he didn't. I was like, dude, I tapped three times. I tapped three times.
- [111:23]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it was pretty obvious, like mistakes and they don't.
- [111:26]
Justin Gaethje
And everyone's like, oh, you said, you know, you're some kind of. You think you're some kind of superman. Why would you tap? It's like when your life is ending, you know, you're a fool if you don't understand that. That, like, I knew I was dying and that's just where I was.
- [111:40]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [111:41]
Trevor Wittman
So that's how crazy you are to everybody he's at. Their eyes are like, no, dude, like, I know you better than you do. You never tap. Like, you kind of fight like that.
- [111:48]
Justin Gaethje
That's what I mean, people think the best.
- [111:51]
Trevor Wittman
That's how he.
- [111:51]
Justin Gaethje
The best thing up to this moment is people. People don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities. And I've also played into that. And I've also understood how big of an asset it is for people to approach me like that, you know, thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't Think or feel or whatever. Whatever people think or think. I'm retarded.
- [112:15]
Joe Rogan
Well, I think what it is, is when you are such an animal, people think you can't be smart because a smart person would be aware of the consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight. That's all it is. And they. And people who don't have that kind of courage. Courage. They like to dismiss people that fight like savages because they go, well, savages can't be smart. That's not right. That's not correct. People. It's like, you see a really hot woman, you go, she got to be a. Yeah, like, no, some of them are really smart and also hot. You know, like the world is confusing.
- [112:47]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [112:47]
Joe Rogan
And you can't categorize people and put them into things. Little, Little, you know, little boxes just to make you feel better.
- [112:53]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. That's all it is.
- [112:55]
Joe Rogan
You know, and you're.
- [112:57]
Justin Gaethje
And the thing is, I never signed up. Like, when we were walking out to the. The press conference, there's like 12, 15,000 people out there. I look at the guy, I was like, dude, I never ever signed up to be a public speaker. What the are we doing here? Like, I never wanted to be in this where I talk in front of this many people. Like, that's not what. I prepared myself forever. And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get, I say before these fights is analyzed by the world. Like the whole. You know, my father is my dad. Like, sometimes I get tongue tied.
- [113:31]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [113:32]
Justin Gaethje
Sometimes I miss people.
- [113:33]
Joe Rogan
I do too. And I talk for a living.
- [113:35]
Justin Gaethje
That's what I mean. But nobody. If people underst. If it had to listen to themselves, they would understand that. They also make mistakes. And so it's like, man, like, I can't be perfect. I'm sorry. I. I really wish I didn't mean my dad was my father. Even though know. You know, it makes sense and it's true.
- [113:54]
Joe Rogan
Listen, you. You're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories. Yeah.
- [113:57]
Trevor Wittman
They have to.
- [113:58]
Joe Rogan
It's not. It's not about writing a story because something's interesting. They have to make a story no matter what it is. They're. They're. Their job is to create content. And when you. Your job is to create content, you make content out of nothing. And that's not usually. It's usually not good.
- [114:14]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [114:14]
Joe Rogan
And that's what they're doing.
- [114:15]
Trevor Wittman
Doing.
- [114:15]
Joe Rogan
They're making good deals.
- [114:16]
Justin Gaethje
If I could have been mentally Coached it would have been in that aspect.
- [114:20]
Joe Rogan
Public speaking.
- [114:21]
Trevor Wittman
Just like I think you speak very well.
- [114:24]
Justin Gaethje
No, no, it's like I just even. I guess there's no lesson to learn. Like you just have to do it. It's through experience.
- [114:30]
Joe Rogan
It's like fighting. You just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable with it or you're naturally talented. Like Conor, you know who the is that guy?
- [114:37]
Justin Gaethje
Smart guy.
- [114:38]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, he's great at that. Like he's fantastic at that shit. I mean that's where he shines.
- [114:42]
Trevor Wittman
You ain't lying. You are like Tom Peter Petty. I'm Petty the Heartbreakers. You are petty. Dude, who cares what people think? No, I think he speaks great. Right.
- [114:51]
Justin Gaethje
I like, you know, I like to see what people are saying about my. Our interview and you know, cuz I want to see the perception.
- [114:58]
Trevor Wittman
I want to just keep inspiring.
- [115:00]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, but the thing is you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never talk to in real life and annoying. Those are the people that are most likely gonna comment. The people that are most likely gonna. You think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments? No.
- [115:15]
Trevor Wittman
Right.
- [115:16]
Joe Rogan
It's not. People that have their together and have big goals. People who are really dialed in and really disciplined and the people whose opinions you'd respect. They're not leaving comments. They're certainly not even shitty comments.
- [115:29]
Trevor Wittman
You nailed that.
- [115:30]
Joe Rogan
That's just the reality. And I'm not hating on these people. I'm just saying like I would have been one of them if you. If somebody gave me a YouTube account when I was 17, I'd be posting the most horrible about everybody.
- [115:42]
Trevor Wittman
Right?
- [115:42]
Joe Rogan
Everybody would. You're a kid, you're. Or you're a dumbass. You don't have your life together yet. But that's the type. You can't listen to them and take that as gospel because it's just not
- [115:51]
Trevor Wittman
just seeing him walk through the airport and just everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so great, dude. Like it's like people that like, like bro, the haters you.
- [116:02]
Joe Rogan
If the haters met you, they're like, bro, I'm a big fan.
- [116:04]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, but still. But it's. But one of those things is like the inspiration on people. Like everybody comes up and they're your favorite fighter. Like I have the brand that you're the. Your favorite fighter. Favorite fighter. Like that is unique. Yeah, that is like such a cool thing. Like you just keep inspiring and very proud of be you.
- [116:21]
Joe Rogan
You should be.
- [116:23]
Trevor Wittman
Should be so proud you should be. Yeah.
- [116:26]
Joe Rogan
So I asked you after the fight if you're going to fight again. You said you promised your mom you weren't going to make a decision. And so it just settled in. I mean, where. Today we're here. It's Friday. The fight was just Sunday. So it was five Davis ago. So now you're just like, you can't. How do you not after that? I mean, you're the champ. It would be great to go out like that. It would be the. An amazing cap, but also great to have at least one more.
- [116:52]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, we'll see.
- [116:54]
Trevor Wittman
People like to watch chaos at the highest level.
- [116:57]
Joe Rogan
Control chaos, you know, it'll never be that chaos again because it'll never be like. It's hard to understand fighter jet flyovers,
- [117:05]
Justin Gaethje
and it's hard to understand how dangerous. Dangerous this game is if you don't do it right. And so is it impossible? Yeah.
- [117:12]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [117:12]
Justin Gaethje
So that'll be a huge. That's a huge fact. There's a lot. There's a lot of variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision.
- [117:23]
Joe Rogan
Do you have a timeline in your head?
- [117:25]
Justin Gaethje
I do know. So you can't remember a time? I fought two times in six months in the ufc. I've fought two times this year already in less than six months. And so I'm going to take the rest of the year. I need my body to heal. I mean, I have. What's the fucking diagnosis? I have a severe bone edema in the tip of my fibula that happened on Christmas, and I have been dealing with that since Christmas Day.
- [117:55]
Joe Rogan
So a bone bleed, like a bruise?
- [117:57]
Justin Gaethje
Bruise? Yeah, it's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula. Tip of my tibula clacked against my femur. Femur. And it caused a huge. A deep, deep bruise. And I cannot get it to heal because I went. You know, I was going through training camp. It really hurt after the Patty fight.
- [118:12]
Joe Rogan
When are you leaving? When are you leaving? Today.
- [118:15]
Justin Gaethje
Will you fly out at like 6:30?
- [118:18]
Joe Rogan
It's 3 o'. Clock. I wanted to see if I can get you into waste. Well, let me text Brigham and see if they could jab some stem cells in there before you.
- [118:25]
Justin Gaethje
I mean, I've got. I've gone to Vegas. I've got stem cells multiple times. Times.
- [118:31]
Joe Rogan
Special place.
- [118:31]
Justin Gaethje
PRP put me on crutches. It was crazy. And then I did a cortisone shot the Friday before I left.
- [118:38]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [118:38]
Justin Gaethje
And that. That helped a lot.
- [118:41]
Joe Rogan
Well, not training is really what it needs. Right. And have you been doing any hyperbaric chamber stuff?
- [118:46]
Justin Gaethje
No.
- [118:47]
Joe Rogan
That's huge. I got like recovery.
- [118:49]
Justin Gaethje
You have no idea how injuries against my process you guys would be. I mean I think I got two. Two. I probably had two massages this camp.
- [119:01]
Joe Rogan
That's amazing. Well, it's really funny if you look at the difference between Ilya Toporia as a YouTube channel as well, where it's fantastic, really goes into depth. But they're using like all this high tech neuro stimulation headgear and he's doing all these different things and it's all.
- [119:20]
Justin Gaethje
Have you seen the video? Video? It's got him doing that and then me taking a 420 dab. Yeah, exactly.
- [119:26]
Trevor Wittman
Did you see our video where he had the, the dog chocker on his forehead? Every time he got straight with his legs, it got flat. I hit the button. Bend his legs again.
- [119:36]
Justin Gaethje
No, we covered our eyes and threw balls at each other.
- [119:40]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [119:41]
Justin Gaethje
Trying to tap into those intuitive abilities.
- [119:43]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, right. Yeah. With your eyes closed.
- [119:45]
Justin Gaethje
But I mean terrifying. I come from the dirt, you know my parents up. They didn't put a golf club in my hand at 4 years old. They threw me in the dirt and you know, I became comfortable with the uncomfortable.
- [120:00]
Joe Rogan
That's a giant factor though. Being comfortable with being uncomfortable is a huge asset. Yeah, it's such a.
- [120:07]
Trevor Wittman
It is with everything in life.
- [120:09]
Joe Rogan
With everything in life.
- [120:10]
Justin Gaethje
I think wrestling is definitely, definitely has. Is the biggest variable when it comes to my success. I mean the mental, the mental side of it, like nobody can. It's very similar to fighting in the fact that nobody can help you. You know, it is against. All the blame is on you. All the success goes to you and you can never use somebody else as an excuse. Any team setting. I played football, I played baseball, soccer, swim team, team swim seems a little different. But you know, there's always a justification for why you failed or why you lost when it comes to those. And you could always point to somewhere else or at least a piece, Even if it's 1 or 2% somebody else's fault then. Then you can justify it, you know, the loss.
- [120:58]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [120:58]
Justin Gaethje
In, in wrestling that's never the case.
- [121:00]
Joe Rogan
Not only that, it's a combat sport that's acceptable in high school. Like it's a combat sport that you take in junior high school, you take in high school and kids learn like there's, there's guys out there that are different. They're working harder than you, they're more aggressive than you, they want it more than you. They put in more time than you. And that's a learn, that's a lesson that's very valuable. When it. Because kids get delusional about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are. When you get flatlined by some dude who just picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you and you're like. And he could do it anytime he wants. And this is the reality of training, training with this guy. Like over and over and over again you're like, oh great. He lateral drops you in front of the whole class. Oh great. Like this is, this is reality. Now you're either going to get better or this is going to keep happening to you over and over and over again. And the mental toughness that comes out of kids that grind it out in wrestling and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early age, all that shit's terrible for you, but the mental aspect of it is undeniable. Think about how many great wrestlers have become great MMA champions.
- [122:07]
Trevor Wittman
Absolutely.
- [122:08]
Joe Rogan
It's the most important foundation.
- [122:09]
Trevor Wittman
Great business people like they. I watched a study a long time ago, they said that the boxing and wrestling created the best employees because accountability.
- [122:18]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [122:19]
Trevor Wittman
You know, and again the cutting the weight, like you're responsible. Like that's what I love about Justin is what makes it so nice to train him is high level people. Like I've had the luck to be able to train some high level guys lately and, and I don't have to deal with any shit. And if I hold myself accountable, then we don't have to have these deep conversations or get our feelings hurt that we're just true to it. His accountability for everything is just. There's nothing like it. And I credit that to his parents. His parents are just such amazing people. And the way that they had raised him to hold. Cause he screwed up a lot as a kid. I told him if we were hanging out when we were younger, we got a lot of trouble because he reminded me of myself. Super hyper, like, like making super bad decisions, but getting punished, getting grounded, getting. Not. Not being able to go out late at night like strict parents. And that being able to understand that there is rules in life and you have to be accountable. If you screw up, you got to deal with the punishment. And that is. It comes from your parents.
- [123:14]
Justin Gaethje
And I agree with my parents being such good people. So my mindset has always, since I was a kid, I have looked up. So the reason I take comments online and I read them, I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with the benefit of the doubt of being good and whether it's what they're saying, what they're doing, their actions. Everybody's been my role model. I've never, never looked at myself as a role model. I've always looked at whether no matter what, even strangers, like I, I trust that they're gonna, that they're good and that's where I start my, that's where I start everywhere from. And so reading comments online, like I, I truly take into account what, what I'm reading, you know, and I don't know why because I know it doesn't matter a lot of the times, a lot of these probably 13, 14 year old kids, but I, in my mind they're 50 year old, you know, men with experience. And I just try to use, use as much and as much of the readily available information, comments, words, action as I can from a place of like, I feel like a child in a sense when it comes to like interacting with people. And I don't know, I don't know why that's how I take it or that's how I do it, but it makes everything, you know, a little bit better. And I'm not as disappointed as much because like once I learn that they're not that, that or they're not good and they can't help me, then I don't be like, oh, that's a bad person. I'm just like, okay, I'm not going to have that experience again.
- [124:53]
Joe Rogan
Well, that's a good perspective. It sounds like you use it then and that's, listen, everyone's different and if you can handle it and you don't get mentally ill from reading comments, dude, that's a rare, you're a rare person.
- [125:03]
Trevor Wittman
We had many conversations.
- [125:06]
Justin Gaethje
That's what my, I went to school for human service. I love to help people. You have no idea how much joy it brings me, me to assist people to make people's life better, to lift someone's spirit. I mean those, that is what makes me feel alive and that comes through my faith and through my parents. You know, my parents are such good people. They deserve so much more than, than most parents because of their actions and their example that they showed for me. And yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am, am because you know, it makes life easier. Life is easy. Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control.
- [125:50]
Joe Rogan
Well, it's also easy if you're a good person watching.
- [125:53]
Justin Gaethje
But I couldn't be a good person without the example of my parents. You have no idea how good and naive my parents are. And when I say naive, it's in such a good way because they haven't done the bad things that most of us have done. And I. And I failed him. And the last time I ever did drugs, I woke up in an ambulance, and I'm pretty sure I died. And I was like, I will never do that again. My parents do not deserve that. And that was probably 2016.
- [126:26]
Joe Rogan
Wow.
- [126:26]
Justin Gaethje
And I was like, I will never touch that again, ever. My parents do not deserve that. And that was. That's why I'm here.
- [126:34]
Joe Rogan
Good for you, dude. That's awesome. And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents. And it really does seem like that attitude that you have is very freeing in a lot of ways.
- [126:45]
Justin Gaethje
It is. It really is.
- [126:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [126:47]
Justin Gaethje
Golf weed.
- [126:52]
Joe Rogan
Trevor, let's talk about those gloves. What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the ufc? It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves.
- [127:01]
Justin Gaethje
I want. Obviously, I want to talk about this, but the gloves I fought in this week were different.
- [127:06]
Joe Rogan
They are.
- [127:07]
Justin Gaethje
They felt.
- [127:08]
Trevor Wittman
They weren't different.
- [127:10]
Justin Gaethje
It was the same. Same glove. The leather was different. It was a little bit thicker, I think, and so it was softer. And so every time I've ever fought, I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here. And I didn't feel that at all
- [127:24]
Joe Rogan
this fight because they were thicker.
- [127:26]
Trevor Wittman
So it's like, if you have, like, a thinner material going through, it's going to cut through the skin a little easier.
- [127:30]
Justin Gaethje
So material. This was looser because it was thicker. It was weird.
- [127:36]
Joe Rogan
So it was better.
- [127:37]
Justin Gaethje
Better.
- [127:37]
Trevor Wittman
Better for that feeling that all fighters.
- [127:40]
Justin Gaethje
Better for comfortability. Yeah. Like, you guys have no idea how uncomfortable we are.
- [127:43]
Trevor Wittman
You're always, like, pulling on the glove to pull it back. It's like getting a hand wrap too tight. And you get those little things between you pulling on the tongue here, so
- [127:49]
Justin Gaethje
you make your fist.
- [127:50]
Trevor Wittman
It squeezes harder.
- [127:53]
Justin Gaethje
But this guy's a genius. He can make anything.
- [127:56]
Trevor Wittman
So Hunter reached out to me three weeks ago, four weeks ago, and said he wanted to ignite the conversation again. So we'll see where that. But, you know, from that first position that we were in, a lot of things happened in a great thing. I always told you it was going to be timing. Timing's everything. And they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about. You know, we had NDA and we had a five year and they moved it to a two year. Took a lot of great notes and I'm very grateful to be a part of those because they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had, but they just couldn't do it to the level that I could do it. And I thought it was super cool that they were to trying, trying because it's a problem that they don't really see and understand. So I think they're in the right mindset and them helping the athletes I thought was a great thing to do. But during that time when I was going to talk to, I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300. We were out there and I had a new patent that I had been working on so we could go opposite direction if they want to own it. It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all of our products. The internal strap strapping. This was a new patent still with internal strapping, but a more dialed in for a fight glove. And then we had those two options. And then when we got there, Ollie had told me that they're releasing a new glove. And so we have, you know, two versions now, which is super cool. And yeah, I think it'll go great.
- [129:19]
Justin Gaethje
Here's the conversation though, like, what are you trying to fix? I pokes, okay?
- [129:25]
Joe Rogan
I poke some.
- [129:26]
Justin Gaethje
That is not possible. Possible.
- [129:27]
Joe Rogan
You don't think it's possible to make less eye pokes?
- [129:29]
Trevor Wittman
You can make less.
- [129:30]
Justin Gaethje
You can make less, but you never stop.
- [129:32]
Joe Rogan
Never going to stop. Well, of course you're not going to stop because the fingers are out.
- [129:36]
Justin Gaethje
The issue is the athlete. The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete. That is where your ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better. Because the thing, the gloves we're fighting in now are terrible. You have no. They. It's hard to make a fist. You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist. And so by the time we get to the fight, this is already your form exhausted. Exhausted. And then the pressure in between your fingers is like something you can't replicate.
- [130:13]
Joe Rogan
Let me ask you this. Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten, something that covers over the tips of the fingers? You would have 80% less eye pokes.
- [130:23]
Trevor Wittman
I do think you could do that in time. I don't think that's the change is hard for everybody, Joe. And that's a huge change for grapplers and things like that. But you're a grappler. So you're a grappler. Most people are going to say, well, that's going to affect this or my certain lock or until they try it.
- [130:40]
Joe Rogan
But again, it's, it's, it would enhance it. The only. The problem would be like rear Naked Chokes, like getting the hand behind that you have more thick. Like it's. Regular gloves are a problem already. But is it more of a problem just to have the fingers covered with the regular glove? I think it's the same. It might actually, it might actually even slip in better. But the thing is, it's like covering the tips with like a mitten like those old school Everlast bag gloves.
- [131:03]
Justin Gaethje
I just, I think it's a different sport now.
- [131:05]
Joe Rogan
But why you can still clinch. You can still do everything.
- [131:08]
Trevor Wittman
That's what I'm talking about.
- [131:09]
Joe Rogan
You take guys to the ground, but everything's the same. You can still grapple.
- [131:12]
Justin Gaethje
This is telling me so much right now. Like, and if you take that away from me. Yeah, right. Like, that is a, that's a huge factor when it comes to intuitive abilities.
- [131:20]
Joe Rogan
Okay, like, explain that to me. Like, what are you feeling with your fingertips that you think would be missing?
- [131:26]
Justin Gaethje
Well, it's not the fingertips when you. It's my hand. Like he moves away, he moves any direction. Like I can make that read. Now he's farther. Now he's there. Right. And I think if you're going to take touch away from us, that would deter our intuitive abilities.
- [131:42]
Joe Rogan
I wonder, I wonder how much.
- [131:44]
Trevor Wittman
But I also think you have to
- [131:46]
Justin Gaethje
understand where as a fighter, for me, it's like when I am relaxed, when I'm relaxed and if my hand can be in this position when I'm relaxed, then I'm okay. Then, then there's not going to be as many eye pokes. But when I relax and it goes like this, right? Like.
- [132:03]
Joe Rogan
And now I force your hand.
- [132:04]
Justin Gaethje
Now I have to do this. I'm naturally. You're never going to take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself. And the instinct to protect yourself is no. Right. That is the instinct.
- [132:16]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [132:16]
Justin Gaethje
Natural, it's intuitive. And it has to be that because you're trying to get your, your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit. But the uncomfortability and like the strenuous effort it takes to make a fit. This is stupid.
- [132:34]
Joe Rogan
It's stupid. And this is the difference between your gloves and the current UFC gloves.
- [132:38]
Trevor Wittman
My gloves are made. My gloves are one of those things that it promotes a natural hand, natural position, a better grip, better fist position, where I'm not. When I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on, it doesn't pull my hand up like this. And when you see guys touch gloves, they're usually like this, not like this.
- [132:55]
Justin Gaethje
Right.
- [132:55]
Trevor Wittman
And it's lining the bones up for, you know, again, they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts. Our gloves were gonna cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength on being able to have holds. Like, if I'm holding someone's formal protection for your hands.
- [133:09]
Joe Rogan
Absolutely.
- [133:10]
Trevor Wittman
And internal strapping, like that is a huge thing. Like, my goal at a certain point with that, to have. Where you can't have hand wraps on. Like, if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand, but you have the gloves on that now, it's equal 100%. Because if you got one person that adds more, More padding or less padding or double layers tape, like, there's many different things that you can do. And that, to me, it's like if. If I. If one fighter has tape wrapping their hands, and then the other one has house wrapping the hands, they're rapping differently. Which one's better for breaks, which one's better for punching, like, right, like, so having that, that's would be really cool. And that's. That's the difference with like. Like our gloves. I'll show you.
- [133:49]
Justin Gaethje
I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands. Like his tape job is. I. I can't wait to show it off to the commission. Every single time I'm like, look at that. Tell me you've seen a better one than that tonight. And every time, you're like, I don't think so.
- [134:05]
Joe Rogan
You got gloves. Of course you did. Of course you did. They're my favorite by far. And ladies and gentlemen, at home, if you're just listening, the difference between Trevor's gloves and everybody else's gloves, one of the big differences is that you can see. See if you're looking at it on that. Let's see how they're curved, folks. The regular gloves from the UFC are not. They're straight, just like this. So these gloves promote a natural punching position. Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position. And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect. The padding is amazing. They're fantastic to hit the bag with. They're just awesome. And they. And more importantly, look what they promote. My hand is totally dead relaxed, and it promotes a closed fist position.
- [134:50]
Trevor Wittman
The cool part, Joe, is this. This is what I was talking about.
- [134:52]
Joe Rogan
So this is a. He's doing the internal strapping right now.
- [134:55]
Trevor Wittman
Strap is coming from over here, so that's going to pull this in. As you notice, we got pat on the side, so there's no, like, the. All the other gloves.
- [135:02]
Joe Rogan
Right, right, right.
- [135:03]
Trevor Wittman
Coming down on a single knuckle. But again, this strap is gonna really seal you in.
- [135:07]
Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- [135:08]
Trevor Wittman
And then this one.
- [135:11]
Joe Rogan
Oh, so these are better than the last ones you brought here. Oh, this is fantastic.
- [135:15]
Trevor Wittman
I've been dialing in finding the right product.
- [135:17]
Joe Rogan
Oh, my God. You don't even need hand wraps. Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves. His bag gloves, I haven't used.
- [135:23]
Justin Gaethje
I haven't wrapped my hands since 2015.
- [135:26]
Joe Rogan
Piper doesn't fight with hand wraps on, which is crazy.
- [135:29]
Trevor Wittman
And it can get to the point if we have the right protection. It's awesome.
- [135:33]
Joe Rogan
This is so superior to the UFC gloves. I mean, the fact that this isn't being used by the UFC right now is crazy.
- [135:40]
Trevor Wittman
We're gonna get done.
- [135:41]
Joe Rogan
I hope you're trying so hard.
- [135:44]
Trevor Wittman
I stepped away from, like, the business part. I'm the visionary now. So I got right people that know how to make deals. So it's. It's right. And the UFC is going to be happy.
- [135:51]
Justin Gaethje
We weren't ready.
- [135:52]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, dude, I'm in there. Like, dude, you know, I don't.
- [135:55]
Justin Gaethje
That was me versus Khabib.
- [135:57]
Trevor Wittman
I take full responsibility.
- [135:58]
Joe Rogan
Oh, I believe it.
- [135:59]
Trevor Wittman
That. I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways. You know, when they'd say what they wanted to do, I was like, yeah,
- [136:04]
Joe Rogan
that's not how this feels so good. It's so bad.
- [136:07]
Justin Gaethje
Better.
- [136:07]
Trevor Wittman
So better.
- [136:07]
Joe Rogan
It's just much better.
- [136:09]
Trevor Wittman
It's like when you put it on, you're like, oh, I want to hit something.
- [136:12]
Joe Rogan
Well, this is one of the things that I love about you, is that you're so creative with stuff, and you're. You're constantly trying to.
- [136:18]
Justin Gaethje
Every single piece of equipment I have trained with for the last.
- [136:21]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, these. So we see so many.
- [136:24]
Joe Rogan
So this is your training bag?
- [136:26]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah, that's. That's what I train in. Yep.
- [136:28]
Joe Rogan
Nice.
- [136:28]
Justin Gaethje
I hit pads in that. Never. I've never wore hand wraps once.
- [136:32]
Joe Rogan
Oh, that's fantastic.
- [136:35]
Trevor Wittman
Open your hand to. To go straight out and Then the pointer knuckle. Protecting that pointer knuckle is so big. Yeah.
- [136:47]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's it, right? Yeah. Oh, it's so nice.
- [136:51]
Trevor Wittman
Then you would you open. You can still grip, right.
- [136:53]
Joe Rogan
You can still grab, but your fingers grab things it hard to chokes. And the.
- [136:56]
Trevor Wittman
And the door knocking knuckles. This is what translates.
- [136:59]
Joe Rogan
I bet you do. You gotta go palm to palm, right. If it's still a. This is.
- [137:03]
Trevor Wittman
Those are yours.
- [137:04]
Joe Rogan
Fantastic. Oh, thank you.
- [137:05]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah. And then I got you another pair of X factors too, because, yeah, you got big hands. So I remember. I give you the 60s. You're like, Bro, things ain't gonna work for me.
- [137:13]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, I got big hands for a little dude. Unusual.
- [137:16]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah, we'll get it done, but I mean, anytime you want to.
- [137:20]
Joe Rogan
I'm so happy. I'm so happy you're gonna get it done because I pushed for it so many times. I brought it up to Dana. I brought it up to everybody. I was like, listen, yeah, what the are we doing? You guys spent a million million billion dollars trying to make these new gloves. You got rid of them in three months.
- [137:32]
Justin Gaethje
That's because. And this could sound bad. That's because they've never thought about the fighter.
- [137:41]
Trevor Wittman
But they did. They tried. They tried to make me.
- [137:43]
Joe Rogan
Tried.
- [137:43]
Trevor Wittman
They tried.
- [137:43]
Joe Rogan
They tried.
- [137:44]
Justin Gaethje
They didn't try.
- [137:45]
Trevor Wittman
They did. Dude, they. You know how much money. I'm not going to tell you how much money they put in. They put. They did.
- [137:50]
Justin Gaethje
To do what? To give me the same exact problem
- [137:55]
Joe Rogan
that people don't know what the they're doing.
- [137:56]
Trevor Wittman
Hired a company that works on.
- [137:58]
Justin Gaethje
They change in their glove.
- [138:00]
Trevor Wittman
But they don't know. They. They took the ideas. At least they tried. They did. I will give them 100% credit.
- [138:05]
Joe Rogan
They did try, but I remember seeing the gloves when they tried and going, these suck. These are not as good. I'm like, right away, I was still
- [138:11]
Justin Gaethje
uncomfortable, still hurt my hands said to
- [138:13]
Joe Rogan
him right away, why don't you just get Trevor's gloves? What the are we doing here? No, these are good. These are good.
- [138:17]
Justin Gaethje
Get the.
- [138:20]
Joe Rogan
The best gloves exist. They're already made. Like, there's only a few people out there that are willing to like, really get creative and redesign and engineer gloves. And when someone does it to the extent that you've done it, like, God.
- [138:33]
Trevor Wittman
So, Joe, when you think about that, that's where I think I fit in well with this, because I want to evolve with the company. And if we change one thing, like, my first thing I want to do is help a performance. I don't want someone to hurt their hand where all of a sudden I hurt my hand on the top of your head. And I just left handed now. And everybody just, you know, there's no pay per view now. But I pay to watch these fights. And now the guy that I wanted to see fight can't continue because he hurt his hand. Right. So we fixed that problem. We fixed longer, better grip strength for the grapplers who are going to need to have risk control when throwing shots. I want to help athletes perform and as we go, let's slowly develop and test with the athletes and find out what. Because it's about the athlete, it's what works for them. And when we can get gloves on people and try something like you were talking about about. That'll take time. You have to train it and go, oh, I actually like this better. And there's the pros and cons. There's pros and cons to everything.
- [139:21]
Joe Rogan
Right.
- [139:21]
Trevor Wittman
So it would take time. And that's where, where I'm passionate about is let's find a problem and let me think through solving it. But I need to know what that
- [139:29]
Joe Rogan
problem gear and we should send anybody to your website. It's. Is it Onyx?
- [139:33]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah. O N X Sports.
- [139:35]
Joe Rogan
Onyx.com. yep.
- [139:36]
Trevor Wittman
A lot of people spell it with a Y. Gloves.
- [139:38]
Joe Rogan
The best shin pads.
- [139:40]
Trevor Wittman
Thank you.
- [139:40]
Joe Rogan
You have the best equipment. It's fucking phenomenal. There it is right there. That's the website Onyx Sports. It's fantastic stuff. I mean it's really obvious that it's a high level coach who's developed all this. I mean everything you make is top of the food.
- [139:54]
Justin Gaethje
The best tester in the world. I break everything.
- [139:59]
Joe Rogan
I'm sure.
- [140:00]
Justin Gaethje
And I can't. I cannot, I cannot break these loves. I cannot break these up. I have to switch every like six months because I wear the foam out so much. So I don't ever want to hurt my.
- [140:10]
Trevor Wittman
But you got two or three sessions of training every day. Like that's for a typical person. These gloves are going to last well over. I Corey had his shin guards for four years.
- [140:19]
Justin Gaethje
I had my shin guards for like three years.
- [140:21]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [140:21]
Joe Rogan
And when you think about the amount of damage that that three years entails, that's pretty incredible for pieces of leather and foam. Yeah. You're so much soaked with sweat. Everything's getting broken down and moisturized then drying out again.
- [140:35]
Trevor Wittman
Crap. Hey, that's the. Our bags that were up there.
- [140:38]
Justin Gaethje
There.
- [140:38]
Trevor Wittman
Dude. We got connectors for the shin guards and the knee pads on the outside. So all your equipment's on the outside of the bag to dry. Oh, yeah. So that's. That's really cool, too. So just trying to rethink how things work.
- [140:49]
Joe Rogan
So that's what I love about the way you approach things. You're always, like, fixing the problem.
- [140:52]
Trevor Wittman
I can't stand when we're not even working on kickboxing and someone's kicking, and it's because they're geared, you know?
- [140:58]
Justin Gaethje
That was the worst thing about fixing my nose, dude. Smelling people. I was like, oh, my God. People still.
- [141:04]
Trevor Wittman
You know how the gym is, especially with geese, right? Like, did you get that, bro?
- [141:07]
Joe Rogan
Like, the dudes who don't watch their geese, those guys are.
- [141:10]
Trevor Wittman
That's.
- [141:10]
Joe Rogan
That's a real problem.
- [141:11]
Trevor Wittman
It's a real problem.
- [141:12]
Joe Rogan
And those are the ones that always give you cooties, too.
- [141:14]
Trevor Wittman
Oh, right. So nasty.
- [141:16]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's nasty. Listen, Justin, I just want. I'm so glad you're not gonna fight to the end of the year, like, for whenever. Just enjoy that, because that was a masterpiece.
- [141:27]
Justin Gaethje
Yes, sir.
- [141:27]
Joe Rogan
It was beautiful to be there. I mean, I felt so American. American. I felt so.
- [141:35]
Justin Gaethje
It's so hard to represent this country because we're such a melting pot.
- [141:38]
Joe Rogan
Yes.
- [141:39]
Justin Gaethje
And I think I have done it. I think I achieved that, and so I'm very, very proud of that.
- [141:43]
Joe Rogan
Dude, you did it in spades. You mean you did it. Five stars. It was phenomenal. It was one of the greatest events that any sporting event has ever put on. I mean, maybe the greatest sporting event in the history of the world.
- [141:54]
Justin Gaethje
I said it before. This is going to be like some miracle night shift.
- [141:57]
Joe Rogan
It was, man.
- [141:58]
Justin Gaethje
I know.
- [141:58]
Joe Rogan
It really was.
- [141:59]
Justin Gaethje
I knew, I knew, I knew I had the opportunity to do something special.
- [142:02]
Joe Rogan
You did it. And then here come down.
- [142:06]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. I want to see my family.
- [142:08]
Joe Rogan
Incredible. That was so cool. So look how cool that is.
- [142:11]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [142:11]
Joe Rogan
So look how cool that is. That is so amazing. That's so amazing. It was an amazing night, dude. I'm so happy I went. I'm so happy I was there to see it live.
- [142:20]
Trevor Wittman
Me too.
- [142:20]
Joe Rogan
It was a real.
- [142:21]
Trevor Wittman
I was. I was honestly really nervous, Joe. I was like, dude, there's like, just again being around everybody and something could happen. The drones that, you know, that they stopped, like, again, I wasn't knowing what to expect. And then till after the fight, because, again, we couldn't take it in. It was a beautiful thing. And Justin, I was like, it.
- [142:37]
Justin Gaethje
If I get taken out in the middle of the cage, how legendary would that be?
- [142:41]
Joe Rogan
I said to Trump. I go, I hope we don't die in a terrorist. I said to Trump, I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack. Goes. We gotta go somehow
- [142:50]
Justin Gaethje
everyone will remember for the rest of eternity.
- [142:54]
Trevor Wittman
But no, I'll pass.
- [142:55]
Justin Gaethje
Sign me up.
- [142:56]
Joe Rogan
Better the way it went.
- [142:59]
Trevor Wittman
That's a way better outcome.
- [143:00]
Joe Rogan
Way better. Well, hey brother, thank you for coming here. Congratulations. Masterpiece.
- [143:05]
Justin Gaethje
Yes.
- [143:05]
Joe Rogan
Both of you.
- [143:06]
Justin Gaethje
Let's go hunting. I want to go hunting. I just got a. I'm going to shoot a L. I saw this year
- [143:11]
Joe Rogan
on the Go hunt website. You went antelope hunt.
- [143:13]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [143:14]
Trevor Wittman
Yeah.
- [143:14]
Justin Gaethje
That's awesome.
- [143:14]
Trevor Wittman
Did you see thousand yard shot?
- [143:17]
Justin Gaethje
Dude, check it out, check it out. We missed our ass off. Off. We were in the. It was windy. These things do not stop moving. They could see us forever and they just kept going. And we were on shoot. We couldn't get prone so we had to. You know, you, you're, you're every hunt you're like, I'm going to have a prone position, I'm going to shoot from. We cannot get in a prone position. So we're on shooting sticks, trying to manipulate the sticks and take shots.
- [143:41]
Joe Rogan
You know prehistoric Luke.
- [143:43]
Justin Gaethje
Luke misses from 140 yards.
- [143:47]
Trevor Wittman
Dude, the story was so much better
- [143:48]
Justin Gaethje
for Luke without that 1093 yards.
- [143:52]
Trevor Wittman
Crazy.
- [143:52]
Justin Gaethje
Hits it in the head, drops it and we're just like, what the. Luke, how. How do you hit that shot? And there's 100. This is. Yeah, look at this.
- [144:02]
Joe Rogan
Wow, that's thousand.
- [144:03]
Justin Gaethje
1092.
- [144:04]
Joe Rogan
Was he shooting for the head?
- [144:06]
Justin Gaethje
No. I don't even know if he hit it. I mean neck.
- [144:12]
Joe Rogan
It was well a thousand yards.
- [144:15]
Justin Gaethje
Just trying to hit the center of the target.
- [144:17]
Joe Rogan
Well, in these crazy prairies too, the kind of wind drift you're dealing with
- [144:20]
Justin Gaethje
and they, they don't. They could see for miles. These things do not stop moving.
- [144:24]
Joe Rogan
No, they're. They evolved to get away from cheetahs. They used to be North American cheetahs. And so North America, this is all before the younger dries impact. So it was like when somewhere around 11,800 years ago, 65 of all North American mammals went extinct. And there was American lion that was bigger than the African lion. And then there was a cheetah. And these, these guys evolved to get away from cheetahs so they can run like 55 miles an hour. When you look at them, they look prehistoric. Their eyeballs are like way out here.
- [144:58]
Justin Gaethje
It's crazy how good a decoy works with them though.
- [145:00]
Joe Rogan
Oh, horses too. Guys walk right up on them. On horses.
- [145:03]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah. Get a moocow. I think just walk right behind.
- [145:07]
Joe Rogan
Walk right behind them and then you can. That's how archery hunters do it a
- [145:10]
Trevor Wittman
lot because you have to get. Liar.
- [145:11]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [145:11]
Joe Rogan
Very tough to sneak in, sneak up on them. Do you do bow hunt? Do you ever bow hunt?
- [145:17]
Justin Gaethje
No.
- [145:17]
Joe Rogan
No. Would you want to learn? You would love it.
- [145:21]
Justin Gaethje
Just like have a bow.
- [145:23]
Trevor Wittman
Just hasn't hunted.
- [145:23]
Justin Gaethje
I shot an elk and did not recover. And I told myself that I will never go archery hunting unless I have the time and effort effort to be 100. Ready.
- [145:35]
Joe Rogan
Yes. Right.
- [145:37]
Justin Gaethje
And so right now it's just rifle.
- [145:39]
Joe Rogan
Well, rifle is always going to be the most effective way. It's still an awesome way.
- [145:42]
Justin Gaethje
Who's whitetail in Arizona is my favorite hunt.
- [145:45]
Joe Rogan
Oh really?
- [145:46]
Justin Gaethje
You should go on that with me one of these days.
- [145:47]
Joe Rogan
That's a fun hunt. Those are tiny little guys.
- [145:50]
Justin Gaethje
I grew up there. So my, my buddies their whole life have looked. We could go out there, we wouldn't find. Right. They're everywhere but find them.
- [145:58]
Joe Rogan
Yeah.
- [145:59]
Justin Gaethje
They call them the gray ghost. And my buddies can find them. And it's such a fun hunt.
- [146:03]
Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's a great hunt. Well, Arizona is a great hunting state too.
- [146:06]
Justin Gaethje
Yeah.
- [146:06]
Joe Rogan
Elk in the country. Yeah. Gentlemen, again, congratulations. Absolute masterpiece. Sunday night. One for history. One of the maybe the greatest event in the history of the sport.
- [146:18]
Justin Gaethje
I mean Joe Rogan again, baby.
- [146:20]
Trevor Wittman
Anytime.
- [146:21]
Joe Rogan
Let's do it one more time. Let's do it one more time. When you do decided to wrap. Thank you guys.
- [146:25]
Ad Guest/Announcer
Thank you.
- [146:26]
Joe Rogan
And onxports.com get the best gloves in the world. Thank you.
- [146:30]
Trevor Wittman
All right, bye.
- [146:45]
Joe Rogan
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