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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
525. The War on Speech—and Those Who Dare to Fight It | Ezra Levant
01:38:21
Support Tommy Robinson’s Give Send Go: https://www.givesendgo.com/Tommy-Robinsons-children Jordan Peterson sits down with human rights activist, political writer, and founder of Rebel News, Ezra Levant. They discuss Ezra’s first hand experience with the World Economic Forum, the antithetical turn towards authoritarianism in the United Kingdom, and Tommy Robinson’s ongoing and wrongful imprisonment. #FreeTommyRobinson Ezra Levant is a Canadian human rights activist, political writer, and father, Ezra Levant is the host of the Ezra Levant show and founder of Rebel News – the largest online independent news network in Canada. Ezra’s great grandfather emigrated to Canada in 1903 from Russia, establishing a homestead near Drumheller, Alberta. Ezra spent his early life growing up in a suburb of Calgary, where he attended a Jewish day school before making the switch to public school. This episode was filmed on February 8th, 2025. | Links | For Ezra Levant: On X https://x.com/ezra...
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- [00:00]
Ezra Levant
There's a battle between Tommy Robinson and the government of the United Kingdom over what is true.
- [00:05]
Jordan Peterson
They've got Tommy in isolation. That's their strategy. Do you know how he's doing?
- [00:08]
Ezra Levant
And he's deteriorating. That's another thing about being in jail I've learned from Tommy Robinson is you are at the mercy of these guards.
- [00:15]
Jordan Peterson
How would you describe the World Economic Forum?
- [00:17]
Ezra Levant
When I go to the UK I see what our future will be five years down the road if we don't change course. Let me tell you what's terrifying about that foreign.
- [00:39]
Jordan Peterson
I'm sitting here in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada today and my guest is Ezra Levant. And Ezra Levant is the perpetrator of Rebel News, which is an was an early adopter of social media technology on the news front, one of Canada's earliest adopters and really one of the earliest adopters in the world. And he's been rabble rousing for like a good depends on how you count it, but 10 to 15 years. And we first came to each other's attention when I was participating in a free speech debacle at the University of Toronto just after my comments about Canada's infamous Bill C16. My well reasoned comments, I might add, came to wide public attention and caused a furor that never ended. And Rebel News backed me in that enterprise and helped publicize what was happening and supported my research financially for a year or so at the University of Toronto when the federal government decided that I wasn't worth supporting anymore, despite my stellar research background and unbroken history of previous funding. Anyways, I got a chance to talk to Ezra and so we did a bit of walking down memory lane talking about, well, the strange situation that obtains in Canada, not least with regard to the new likely Liberal leader Mark Carney. We talked about the WEF and their machinations. We talked a fair bit about Tommy Robinson, a political prisoner in the uk. I did two interviews with him and Ezra worked. Tommy Robinson was a journalist working for Rebel News for a good while and we talked a lot about Tommy, who's in solitary confinement in a maximum security prison in the UK for a civil crime which was distributing a film called Silenced, which is probably the most well watched documentary that the UK has ever produced. So that gag order didn't work very well. We talked a fair bit about Australia and we talked about the political situation in Canada and the uk. We talked about the truck convoy and about the transformation of the news media from the corrupt government funded legacy media in Canada say, exemplified by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, the CBC and the rise of the new media, apart from wander down memory lane. And so. Oh, I should mention something too, even though Ezra was too shy to mention it during the podcast, which is not something that you'd normally say about Ezra Lavant. Too shy. He's got a new book coming out too, which is called Deal of the Century, the America First Planned for Canada's oil sands. And so, well, keep an eye out for that because there's a lot of oil in the oil sands and there's every reason to use it, despite the myriad of reasons that we're force fed about not using it. And so, you know, Ezra's a battler for the America, for the Alberta economy and for Western energy independence and, and the utility of being grateful, let's say, for the fossil fuel industry that stops us from freezing to death in Winnipeg, for example, in the middle of the winter when it's minus 30 and everyone's warm. And so that's Deal of the Century, the America first plan for Canada's oil sands. In any case, join me today for my discussion with Ezra Avat, head of Rebel News. They also, by the way, did a lot to publicize the truckers convoy. Looking forward to it. So we have lots to talk about today. We can talk about our mutual friend Tommy Robinson and the whatever the hell is going on in the uk. We can talk about wf, because I know you've sent journalists there and been there yourself. We can talk about the stunningly dismal state of the political situation in Canada and. But I think I want to start with two other things. I want to remember how we met and I want to talk to you about what's happened with Rebel News since then. So I want to hear how you think we met and what happened when we first began our association.
- [05:03]
Ezra Levant
I saw a courageous professor and those words don't go together very often, standing outside the University of Toronto making the case for freedom of speech while people tried to shout him down. And in fact, antifa types brought loudspeakers to blast white noise. And we had our cameras there and we said, who is this? And doesn't he know that he's going to get squashed? Doesn't he know to bend the knee? And we, and this was almost 10 years ago and it was 2016 and we, we were citizen journalists just finding our legs. Yeah, Rebel News was only born in 2015.
- [05:44]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, Lawrence Southern was there.
- [05:45]
Ezra Levant
That's right. And that was before the great demonetization and cancellation of politically incorrect videos. It was the golden age for YouTubers so things that were raw and interesting and real just zoomed on that channel. That all came to an end in early 2017 because all this bubbling, frothing conversation helped put Donald Trump in the White House in 2016. And Silicon Valley woke up and said we did that. And so you saw Facebook and YouTube and Google learn about community guidelines and throttling and boosting something that has really been going on to this day.
- [06:28]
Jordan Peterson
Well, it's still, it's going on, except it's increasingly invisible. We have no idea how these giant corporations, Google in particular, manipulate behind the scenes to ensure that the right slant is brought to bear not only on the content, but on the viewership and the dissemination, which is even YouTube, for example. Took us like a about six months to figure this out. My YouTube channel, this was a couple of years ago, maybe even last year. Our numbers were slipping, but my subscriber rate was continuing to go up. And at a good rate, like I accrue about 100,000 subscribers a month, which is quite a few. And we found that some flunky, maybe who knows why or on whose orders, scrubbed the name Peterson from the autofill in the search bar. So if you typed in pet, it didn't fill, didn't fill for Michaela, my daughter, because she has a podcast, but for any Peterson's. But it definitely didn't fill for me. And so that was a hard thing to ferret out. You know, it was a subtle, a subtle manipulation of the distribution of the videos because a lot of the way that people find new videos is by autofill. Right. So that's just one example among many.
- [07:45]
Ezra Levant
A Google insider a few years back showed me some internal chats that they had in their company. There were more people at Google watching and talking and commenting and criticizing Rebel News than who worked for Rebel News. And we're a fraction of your size, so anything to touch your discoverability would be done. I wouldn't say a junior flunky. You're being too kind. And we know that this goes straight to the top. Mark Zuckerberg pretty much confessed to that a few weeks ago when he said he was going to stop doing that. We know from some lawsuits in the U.S. especially during the pandemic, from the White House to the FBI to the CIA, there was so many different government organizations, including to do with health, that were plugged right in to the back end of social media trying to throttle people. Even like RFK Jr. Yeah.
- [08:39]
Jordan Peterson
Oh yeah, definitely.
- [08:40]
Ezra Levant
And if you said anything that was contrarian about the pandemic even things that are now accepted, like the likelihood that it came from the Wuhan Virology center research center. You would be demonetized, so you wouldn't be able to sell ads. You would be throttled in various ways. You would be suspended. It happened to us. We were growing at 8% per month. Not quite the stats that you described. But back in 2015, 2016, we were the largest YouTube news service in Canada. More than global news, more than ctv. Those are massive billion dollar companies. We were bigger and then BAM, in January 2017, we were cut by 85% and then they later just took it all down to zero. We still have about 1.7 million YouTube subscribers and I love them and we'll always give them content, but we're not allowed to put a single ad towards them or get what's called a super chat. And we love Rumble, which is a free speech alternative. But really Elon Musk has not only saved free speech, but I think through that saved America.
- [09:46]
Jordan Peterson
How are you guys doing on X?
- [09:49]
Ezra Levant
Well, I mean I love. Doesn't make a lot of money for us, but we have that kind of growth and engagement that we used to have back in the day at YouTube. And I hope Rumble continues to grow. Those guys have free speech on their mind and they've got some big support. They're doing interesting deals not just with social media, but cloud services. And I don't know, there's a lot of ways that censorship works, but I think, I think the government has to get involved with rooting. Here's an example. Elon Musk and his doge, they're going through and finding all these cases where the government has been paying regime journalists.
- [10:32]
Jordan Peterson
I think in Canada, if I've got this right, maybe this is misinformation. So for everybody watching and listening, there's your misinformation warning for the day. I came across information from a variety of sources suggesting that about 25% of the salary of the typical legacy media journalist in Canada is essentially subsidized by the government.
- [10:55]
Ezra Levant
I think it's actually closer to 30. And that's just through one particular program. And 99% of Canadian journalists are on that program. The CBC itself, the state broadcaster, is larger than all other media combined. All other news media combined, yeah, But.
- [11:14]
Jordan Peterson
Ezra, they do get hundreds of views on their YouTube postings. Hundreds.
- [11:19]
Ezra Levant
But that's the paying for a certain message. What is fascinating and terrifying is to see how US government and now Canadian government money and UK funds, so called fact checkers, for example, News Guard.
- [11:35]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, fact checkers.
- [11:36]
Ezra Levant
I don't know if you ever heard of News Guard. Huge contracts with the US Air Force for some reason, and they review any website and give it a rating, and that rating is plugged into browsers. And it basically says, this is safe and this is dangerous. And it's purely political. I mean, they rate us every year. It's a BS exercise. They ask us questions about Trump, they ask us questions about transgenderism, and they ask us questions about vaccines. You can see they're pushing a very particular message track. And they censor us for our opinions, not our facts. These things are all funded by the government.
- [12:16]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, well, the thing is, if. If it was an easy thing to separate out opinion from fact, the world would be a much less complex place. You know, today's fact is tomorrow's opinion and today's opinion is tomorrow's fact. And partly, we're exchanging information all the time to distinguish between the two, but it's not like it's easy a priori. And so many preposterous things have turned out to be true. You know, I. I think the thing that shocked me most, two things that I discovered in the last 10 years, I suppose, were kind of at the list, at the top of the list of shocking realities. And one was that the public education system in North America and in Europe and in Japan for that matter, was literally created by fascist industrialists in the late 1800s to make unthinking workers available for use in factories. They based the public education system on the Prussian military model. And the Prussians had decided they were going to train rural people to be soldiers. And the last thing they wanted them to do was think. And so that's like, I just don't even know what to do with a piece of information like that. But nothing's changed in 100. Well, that's why it's rows of desks and there's factory bells. And, you know, there was some reason for it. Rural people were pouring into the cities. Their kids were very likely to work in factories. You know, they had to learn to work by the bell. But. But the insistence that the products be unthinking, you know, because otherwise they wouldn't be suitable factory workers. First of all, that's a stupid theory because you actually want your factory workers to think so they can see what's wrong on the line and help you work to continuously improve your industrial processes. The Japanese figured that out. So it was a stupid theory to begin with, but it's also dehumaniz and you know, that's still the ethos of the public school system. So that's appalling. And then the next bit of, you know, impossible, conspiratorial reality that I uncovered was not that I uncovered it, you know, globally, I don't mean that, but for my own edification, was that the food pyramid was formulated by the U.S. department of Agriculture and it was a marketing ploy and they knew that it was going to cause an epidemic of obesity and diabetes because their own experts told them that.
- [14:29]
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- [15:34]
Ezra Levant
So, and those are. I don't even think those are particularly acute crises. Those are sort of long standing problems that it's not. Oh my God, we've got to snuff this idea out before this election. Like, like the Hunter Biden. Oh yeah, that story.
- [15:50]
Jordan Peterson
That's a dreadful story.
- [15:51]
Ezra Levant
So what you're talking about are big swath of ideas, right?
- [15:55]
Jordan Peterson
And then there's the crisis ideas like the ones you just.
- [15:58]
Ezra Levant
Which are so throttled around.
- [16:00]
Jordan Peterson
The Hunter Biden laptop story. That's another one too. I talked to Miranda Devine. She broke that story for the New York Post. I've had her on as a guest twice. And that's another story that's just completely unbelievable. I mean, Hunter Biden dropped three laptops off, not one, three. Now, the first question you Might ask yourself is, how do you water soak three laptops? Right. One, okay, you dropped it in the pool during your cocaine fueled misery binge. But three, and he did that a week before his father announced his run for presidency. And like a Freudian would sniff around that for about 15 years, and rightly so. And then there was a lot of damning material on there, which you think he might have thought about a little bit, unless he was out for revenge, let's say. And then, well, then the story broke. And then just a calamitous tsunami of absolute lies. They knocked the New York Post off of Twitter and that's the oldest standing newspaper in North America, right?
- [16:57]
Ezra Levant
Alexander Hamilton.
- [16:58]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, it's a bit tabloidy and, you know, and nonetheless it does some very good work. And certainly the work it did on the 100 Biden laptop story was good. And then they called it Russian disinformation. And this is like weeks before the election. I truly believe that that was enough to throw the election. Now, it turned out maybe that it was worse for the progressives that Trump had four years to think in, in what would you call, exile, you know, because here he's back and he's been thinking for quite a while, but. And then those intelligence agents signed that document that said it was. It had all the earmarks of a Russian disinformation.
- [17:35]
Ezra Levant
Such a funny phrase, that's for sure.
- [17:37]
Jordan Peterson
You know how conniving and miserable and wretched and deceitful and traitorous you have to be to come up with a line like that. It's like, well, we have to convince the American people that this is a hoax, but we know it isn't a hoax, so we have to walk the line very carefully. So if it comes back to bite us in the ass, we can say, well, it would just. All we said was that it had the hallmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign, not that it actually was one. Hint, hint, wink, wink, you know, and Zuckerberg, you know, I have some sympathy for Zuckerberg, actually. I've talked to him. And maybe I'm naive and it's certainly possible because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. But, you know, 10 years ago, if the White House came knocking at your door and said, you're running a very complex information or operation here, we have reason to believe that it has been compromised. We'd like you to aid us in our investigations. You know, you can think you would have been like free speech advocate number one and said, no, but most people will back off their free speech with a lot less pressure than that, that's for sure. And Zuckerberg definitely made mistakes. And you could say that his admission of guilt, you know, in the Trump era is self serving. And I suppose you could, you know, that's, that's something to consider. But you have to be pretty damn sure of yourself to think you would have done better. I'm not trying to excuse it or what happened on Twitter, which was way worse.
- [19:03]
Ezra Levant
I mean, well, we only know what happened to Twitter because Elon Musk himself revealed that he sort of opened up his own kimono to show the world. I've got to think it was the same at YouTube, Google, Facebook, Instagram. They just haven't been as forthcoming on. Elon Musk is very unusual that way.
- [19:22]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [19:23]
Ezra Levant
And what I find, well, and there.
- [19:26]
Jordan Peterson
Is misinformation and disinformation campaigns. It's not like Tick Tock isn't run by the Chinese Communists and it's warped a whole generation of young women because that's where they get all their information. And 18 to 35 year old young women in the United States have political views that are way out of alignment with everyone else's. Hyper progressive and liberal. And there's no doubt, there's absolutely no doubt that the Chinese Communists are fomenting discord using TikTok, obviously, clearly in a documented way.
- [19:55]
Ezra Levant
And they're tracking too, because today's 15 year old in five years will be 20 and maybe he'll be a soldier then. And maybe at 25, maybe he'll be promoting like I'm think of if you're tracking someone and all their conversations and all their networks and all their friends, and if everything they say is being recorded from their gestures to. And if it's all being backed up in big data. In Beijing, you're talking to a kid today, but in 20 years from now you've got some dirt on someone. I mean, TikTok is so addictive. Elon Musk said the algorithm, he felt it pulling on his mind. He had to shut it down. It's an amazing algorithm. It knows what you like almost more than you do.
- [20:35]
Jordan Peterson
And that's what probably more certainly explicitly more than you do. Definitely.
- [20:40]
Ezra Levant
And the thing is, people won't admit.
- [20:41]
Jordan Peterson
To what they like.
- [20:42]
Ezra Levant
And not just that. Maybe you forgot what you said in that phone call five years ago. How can it forget? It never forgets anything in some ways. And there is some reason to be terrified about it. But I think Donald Trump has decided if there's going to Be AI, Let it be in America rather than in China.
- [21:00]
Jordan Peterson
Well, that's Musk's take on it, too, is that, you know, this is a dreadful war, this AI war, because these AI systems use reinforcement learning, and that's how biological systems learn. They're very lifelike, very, very lifelike. And their intelligence is limited only by their database and the amount of power at the moment that's available, computation, computational ability, power, and the database. And those are just growing like mad. And so, yeah, it's clearly the case that these systems, well, in some ways, without AI advertisers, the successful ones, knew more about your preferences than you did. But with AI, well, that's a whole different ballgame, especially when they're starting to do things like analyze your eye movements, because eye movements are very, very indicative of attentional focus. Right. They're almost a perfect window into the soul, which is why we look at each other's eyes when we talk.
- [21:52]
Ezra Levant
Right.
- [21:52]
Jordan Peterson
So these cameras on your phones can track your eyes with no problem. Well, and then the AI systems will know more about what motivates each of us and all of us than we will. They probably already do. So. Yeah. So Musk's take on that as well. Better him than the Chinese. If it has to be someone, and it seems like it has to be, because what are you going to stop AI, Good luck. There's no stopping it. There's not even. There's not even hypothetically a way to stop it, because you can't even define it really. Like, what are you going to do? Make the mathematics illegal? That's all statistics, by the way. So that's gone. No, that's not going to happen. Let's go back to 2016. Sure. Okay. So, yeah, so that was a shock to me that day. That was a free speech protest. Now, that was advertised as mine, but it wasn't. I was just invited to speak by a bunch of students. And I'd never been involved, like, anything, anything like that in campus. Guy wasn't a controversial figure politically by any stretch of the imagination, you know. And, yeah, these bloody radicals showed up. Well, first of all, the trans mob. So they were fun and these serious radical types. And, yeah, they brought these white noise blasters to drown me out. And I can't remember if I unplugged one or if there was a rough guy there who unplugged it. And then there was a bit of a skirmish around that. It's like, because, I don't know, it's a tricky business. Do I have the Right to speak in public. Does someone have a right to drown me out with white noise generator? Well, it's not exactly obvious whose right triumphs in that particular instance.
- [23:37]
Ezra Levant
And it felt like a struggle session in a way. Oh, it was like a struggle.
- [23:41]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [23:41]
Ezra Levant
They were trying to put the, the hat on you and make you.
- [23:44]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. Yeah.
- [23:46]
Ezra Levant
And that didn't work so well. And if I recall your grants, your, you always. Yeah, and those were seats.
- [23:53]
Jordan Peterson
It wasn't the university that did that.
- [23:54]
Ezra Levant
That was the federal government. Yeah, well, yeah, Social sciences.
- [23:57]
Jordan Peterson
So, yeah. So one of your requirements as a professor, essentially, is to generate enough grant funding, usually from federal agencies, which is probably not a good idea, by the way, to keep your lab running to fund your graduate students. And small. They're small grants in Canada, but they're, they're. One thing I would say in favor of the Canadian granting system is it doesn't take all your time to write the grants like it does in the United States. Anyways, not only does that fund your graduate students, some travel and some research costs. There's nothing in it that's personal. But it also funds the university to some degree because they take overhead costs. And I always got a grant. I had an UN until then.
- [24:39]
Ezra Levant
Until.
- [24:40]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah. That wasn't accidental. I mean, it wasn't like I was a good researcher. I had an excellent research dossier. And yeah, I, I, I don't know if I'm the most cited clinical psychologist in Canada, but I've got to be in the top 10. So still, by the way. So there was, there was absolutely no reason for them to pull my funding. But they did. That's right. And then you did a fundraising campaign.
- [25:06]
Ezra Levant
Right, Right, Yeah.
- [25:08]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [25:08]
Ezra Levant
You know what? This is one of those cases where the people were on one side and the institutions were another. That's where crowdfunding works sometimes.
- [25:18]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [25:19]
Ezra Levant
Where it's sort of an 80, 20 kind of thing. I mean, transgenderism in sports is another example of that. All the institutions are on one side and the people are on the other.
- [25:29]
Jordan Peterson
Trump, like pipelines in Canada, I think. So it's 80 20, by the way.
- [25:34]
Ezra Levant
And I think people, I don't think a lot of grassroots people think about government grants for scholarship and academia, but they could see that you were being punished for it in a way that was designed to hurt you so severely. Normal people said, well, we're gonna, we did crowdfund sort of a replacement for that.
- [25:54]
Jordan Peterson
And that's where I met Lauren, too, that day. She was quite the creature she wasn't very old then, she was only about 18.
- [26:01]
Ezra Levant
Very young.
- [26:02]
Jordan Peterson
She's had a rough time, man. She's been through the mill, that girl.
- [26:05]
Ezra Levant
Rebel News has met some colorful characters over the years, that's for sure.
- [26:09]
Jordan Peterson
You're one of them, that's for sure. Yeah.
- [26:11]
Ezra Levant
I mean I think you've, you guys have roused a lot of rabble, but I think that's healthier than the alternative, which is a conformity in these controversial days. Air it out, hear it out, let the both sides clash. And that's what YouTube was like. That's what we, we got rolling with what we called citizen journalism. Everybody calls it that.
- [26:32]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. You were early adopters of that.
- [26:34]
Ezra Levant
Yeah. I used to be a, a real TV station called Sun News Network. There were 200 folks. It had real studios across the country. My studio in Toronto was a million dooll studio with five people working in the control room. It was a real operation and a billionaire named Pierre Carl Pelado put a ton of dough into it. But it was sort of euthanized by Canada's TV regulator, the crtc.
- [26:59]
Jordan Peterson
How?
- [26:59]
Ezra Levant
Well, in the end the TV network had to do deals with different cable companies. Will you carry it? What channel will you carry it on? How much will you charge customers for it? How much will you pass on to Rebel News? And all of these things are regulated. And so the regulator basically euthanized it and said, we're going to give you.
- [27:23]
Jordan Peterson
A few regulators turn into sensors at the drop of a hat. It gets happened in the universities, so.
- [27:29]
Ezra Levant
And in the UK they're off calm. They have a, I mean like.
- [27:32]
Jordan Peterson
Right, right.
- [27:32]
Ezra Levant
Especially with media. That's how you can kill it.
- [27:34]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [27:35]
Ezra Levant
And they killed Sun News. And I resolved that I would never put myself in a position where a government regulator could do that to us again. So we went all Internet. We didn't try and do anything in a real TV or real radio.
- [27:46]
Jordan Peterson
Right.
- [27:47]
Ezra Levant
But in the last couple of years, what was your.
- [27:49]
Jordan Peterson
Okay, you talked about some of your motivation for doing that on the, on the bureaucrat side, let's say. How do you think it was that you saw that that opportunity existed on YouTube? And I started putting my lectures on YouTube. I think in 2012 or 2013 was really an experiment. Right. What the hell is this video On Demand? It was all cute cat videos at that point. Right. It looked like nothing. That was before Google bought it. But I thought, well, huh. On Demand video, eh? Permanent. That's a revolution, man. That's a revolution. So what were you thinking about in relationship. Was it specifically YouTube that you gravitated towards first?
- [28:25]
Ezra Levant
Well, y. Because I had a YouTube experience that I'm going to say saved my life maybe five years or almost 10 years earlier. Let me tell you the story really quick. I was the publisher of a print magazine called the Western Standard. You know, we would print it on paper and mail it out every two weeks. It's even hard to imagine such a thing existed now. And this was when the Danish cartoons of the Muslim prophet Muhammad caused such a fuss overseas. I think that was late 2005.
- [28:54]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Right. And you're not supposed to print an image of Muhammad.
- [28:57]
Ezra Levant
That's right.
- [28:58]
Jordan Peterson
Well, at least there's some interpretations of Islam that make that claim. And the noisy. The noisy ones definitely make that claim.
- [29:06]
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- [30:21]
Ezra Levant
So there were riots around the world, over 200 people killed, and every mainstream media outlet panicked and refused to show it. The Wall Street Journal, cnn, New York Times. And so that actually added menace to it. Wow. They'll print anything. They won't show what these cartoons are like. They must be awful. Yeah, no, in fact, they were pretty banal. Nothing more Controversial than what you'd see on the cartoon, political cartoons in any major newspaper on any subject. So we had this little magazine called the Western standard. 40,000 subscribers, based in Western Canada. And we were fortnightly, so we're not hot on the news. So I thought, okay, by the time we published, I thought, everyone else will have shown the cartoon. So we're not going to go with ta da. Here's what they are. We'll be more analytical. And we made the point. You just did. Not all Muslims hold that. You can't depict more. We did sort of a think piece kind of thing. The cartoon was not on the COVID It was tucked inside. But by the time this came off the printing presses, it was clear we were the only people in the country that were going to do this.
- [31:22]
Jordan Peterson
Almost the only people in the world.
- [31:24]
Ezra Levant
Very few did.
- [31:25]
Jordan Peterson
Very few, man. There was like three news outlets. I think three or four. You were one of them.
- [31:30]
Ezra Levant
And our phones rang off the hook. A lot of people who called at the time were Muslim, I would say exiles, who said, I didn't come to Canada to have Sharia law follow me across the world. Yeah, I found that very encouraging. And mostly people just appreciated the fact that we let them decide. And we didn't show the cartoons saying we agree with them. It was more like a prosecutor puts evidence to judge news. Here's the case.
- [31:55]
Jordan Peterson
It was obviously news.
- [31:56]
Ezra Levant
Exactly. And if you're in the radio business, you paint a picture with your words, but when you have a printing press, you show it. So we showed it, and it was wonderful. But then the Alberta Human Rights Commission, which is a government agency, another commission.
- [32:11]
Jordan Peterson
By the way, that does nothing like what its name says it does.
- [32:13]
Ezra Levant
Exactly, exactly. Because there's no such thing as the right not to be offended. That's a counterfeit human right. That's actually. You're. You're torturing the language. That's a power to silence.
- [32:27]
Jordan Peterson
Well, that's exactly that right. My right to do not be offended by you. It's my right to control your tongue.
- [32:33]
Ezra Levant
We have the right to be offended. And just stop and think about that for a minute. In some parts of the world, you're not allowed to be offended by things. You're not allowed to express your outrage at things. You have to suck it up in Canada. We have the right to be offended, not the right not to be offended. So a radical imam.
- [32:50]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, well, it was illegal in the Soviet Union to complain about your own pain.
- [32:54]
Ezra Levant
And that's the thing. The answer is, where does. Where does Hatred come from. Because I was charged, I still to this day remember the wording of the law under which I was charged by the Alberta Human Rights Commission. And it is against the law to publish anything, quote, likely to. Likely to expose a person to hatred or contempt.
- [33:17]
Jordan Peterson
Have you read Bill C63 very closely. Oh, my God. I think Carney will pass that when he gets coronated.
- [33:24]
Ezra Levant
I, well, he, I, he hasn't indicated that. He won't. Let me tell you what's terrifying about that. Likely to. So that's a future crime.
- [33:32]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Yeah. Right.
- [33:32]
Ezra Levant
So how do you defend against a future crime? Now, there are some future crimes in our criminal code. Uttering a death threat, I suppose, is a future crime. Attempted something, something. But likely to what, Punch someone? That's very measurable. No. Likely to expose a person to hatred or contempt. So you're going to do something that's likely to cause him to have hard feelings about him. And how do you measure that and what's likely to. And by the way, they're playing with.
- [34:00]
Jordan Peterson
That in the uk and a big.
- [34:01]
Ezra Levant
Truth is not a defense. What's truth got to do with it? You caused him to have hard feelings about him.
- [34:05]
Jordan Peterson
That's the truth. That's the new definition of truth, fundamentally. So, you know, that was a canary in the coal mine. You fought that for how long?
- [34:13]
Ezra Levant
I was pursued for 900 days. And the apex of that was we managed to convince the interrogator for the Alberta Human Rights Commission to allow us to make a record of my interrogation. Now, we didn't see a radio, so it was in my lawyer's office, it was on a Friday afternoon. And we managed to convince the interrogator to come to us. So we had set up. It was conspicuous. It wasn't hidden. We had set up a camera. This was, this was before smartphones. I had never used a camera before. And we sat up in the room. So the interrogator comes in, she looks at the camera. You can see she's sort of hesitating for a second. But it's Friday afternoon and we had been negotiating this meeting for months, so she just sits down and she proceeds to grill me. And what do you think her first question was? It was, why did you publish the cartoons? Now, the thing is, if anyone else had asked me that question, I probably did a hundred media interviews. I would try and be the most reasonable version of me I could be. I would try and explain it. Separation of mosque and state. It's the central artifact in a news story. We have to talk this out, I would try and be as reasonable as possible. I talked to a lot of Muslim folks and I tried to say, no, please understand why this was. I was trying to appeal to their reason. But when the government asks you the same question, you can't answer in the same way. Because the government is not asking out of curiosity or out of intellectual growth. They're asking because something turns on it. Punishment turns on it. If you don't appease them and say the right answer, you will be punished. And so you can't answer the same way. And so I remember what I said. I said, because it's my bloody right to do so. And I'm not trying to convince you and wiggle through. I want my maximum freedom. And I recorded this on this video camera and I went home that day and I managed somehow to edit that video. I'd never done it in my life. And I set up a YouTube account. I had never done that in my life. This was when YouTube was pretty new. There was no social media back then. There was no Facebook, no Twitter or anything like that. And I uploaded the video of my interrogation because I knew no one would believe me if I said a magazine publisher was just grilled for one hour about my political and religious views for publishing.
- [36:41]
Jordan Peterson
That's a crucial case. Yep.
- [36:43]
Ezra Levant
And people that went viral.
- [36:45]
Jordan Peterson
Great. Before viral was fake.
- [36:48]
Ezra Levant
Hundreds of thousands.
- [36:49]
Jordan Peterson
What year was that?
- [36:50]
Ezra Levant
I think it was 08.
- [36:52]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah. That's really early. And that's really early. So that clued you into the power of that media.
- [36:59]
Ezra Levant
The asymmetry of it. The asymmetry. Here's. There were more than a dozen bureaucrats and lawyers for the Alberta Human Rights Commission coming for me. And the complainant, this radical imam, didn't have to pay a cent. Yeah. And his complaint was so laughable. He cited as legal basis he was citing passages from the Quran. He said he personally was a descendant of Muhammad and I had offended him. And I thought, oh, for sure this is gonna be thrown out. No, it was not a dozen people. I mean, human rights is the middle name of the Alberta Human Rights Commission. They were anything but. I would've been flat.
- [37:31]
Jordan Peterson
They're anything but.
- [37:32]
Ezra Levant
Yeah, I would've been flattened. But the Internet saved me that. Blogging was a thing back then and PayPal was new. So that's how I funded my lawyer. The Western Standard magazine came to an end, as all magazines sort of did around then. So I didn't have the dough to fight this.
- [37:52]
Jordan Peterson
Do you know what it cost you?
- [37:54]
Ezra Levant
You know what I. It was, it was close to 100 grand.
- [37:57]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. And that's in 2000. That's like $10 million.
- [38:00]
Ezra Levant
Now, they, I. It was fascinating to deal with them. They are so used to making deals with rational business people who say, there's no way I'm going to win here. Yeah, just pay it out and get it over. They offered me, they said, if you pay that imam, I think it was like eight grand.
- [38:18]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [38:18]
Ezra Levant
And give him a page in the magazine to write, whatever he wants, will let you go. And they assumed I would take it. And any rational decision maker would have taken that deal instead of fighting. You're not going to win. Look at the law.
- [38:32]
Jordan Peterson
It depends on what you mean by win.
- [38:33]
Ezra Levant
Well, that's right. And we can talk a little bit more about my friend Tommy Robinson and how, in a way, he is irrational, too, if the idea is to save yourself. Like he was in court in the uk. I sat there and I watched the judge say to him, will you take down that video? This was shortly after you interviewed him.
- [38:51]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [38:51]
Ezra Levant
He put up a video on Twitter. A judge said, don't do it. Don't do it. He did it.
- [38:56]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [38:56]
Ezra Levant
He was brought before the judge. I'm switching gears now. And the. And he was in the dock. And the. And the judge said, I'm going to give you the maximum sentence. The video had been seen 55 million times. The judge said, you take it down now, I'm going to lop money silenced. That's right. And Tommy wouldn't bend the knee.
- [39:13]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Well, he was out of the country, too. And he went back for his trial.
- [39:16]
Ezra Levant
He went back. He was.
- [39:17]
Jordan Peterson
I know. We talked about that, you know, and, well, we. We discussed the pros and cons of him staying away or going back to face the music, you know, and, well, you know, Socrates, when he was sentenced to death by the Athenians, they thought he'd run. Like they told him, we're going to try you six months from now. Hint, hint, wink, wink, why don't you get out of town, you troublesome old goat.
- [39:41]
Ezra Levant
Yeah.
- [39:41]
Jordan Peterson
You know, because otherwise, you know, the ax is going to fall. And he went out and had a little discussion with his conscience, and it said, don't run.
- [39:50]
Ezra Levant
Yeah. Well, I visited Tommy in Spain and came back with him on the flight because we thought he would land in the minute he arrested the minute he landed. They waited a few days and they picked him up strategically so he could not attend a rally.
- [40:03]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah.
- [40:04]
Ezra Levant
And here's the. Let me talk about that moment just for One second. Tommy has flaws, but he also has within him a gleaming diamond that is rare. And let me tell you what that is. The video had been seen 55 million times. The judge was saying, if you take it down now, you'll go home to your family months earlier. And I'll confess, I said to Tommy, I said, look, brother, you've had the most watched documentary film ever produced in the uk. That's the biggest win of all time. Take it down and don't be away from your family.
- [40:34]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [40:35]
Ezra Levant
And I said that to him as a friend. I said, you have the biggest win you can. 55 million views. He said, no. Now it has over 150 million views and the world is talking about it, including Elon Musk himself, who retweeted it. And see, the law isn't used to dealing with people who are not rationalizing, sort of maximizing the optimal outcome for reducing pain.
- [41:01]
Jordan Peterson
So the optimal outcome for reducing immediate pain. That's a big difference, man.
- [41:09]
Ezra Levant
So they thought I was going to take the deal back in 2008 to let the Z mum have a page in the magazine rather than to fight a six figure fight for three years. And with Tommy, they thought he would bend the knee and take that thing down. Instead, he said, no, I'll hold fast. And so he's still in the clink, by the way. They have him in solitary confinement. They cleared out the whole segregation block. He's the only prisoner in there. He's in his cell 21 hours a day. He's allowed out to have a shower. He's allowed out to ride a stationary bike and to sort of a homemade gym. The rest of the time he is in isolation. It's been over 100 days right now.
- [41:46]
Jordan Peterson
They've also forbade anyone with a social media following to visit him, which is a weird. Like, what does that mean, a social media following?
- [41:53]
Ezra Levant
I just got that.
- [41:54]
Jordan Peterson
Three people, a thousand people.
- [41:56]
Ezra Levant
Everyone has a social media phone.
- [41:58]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [41:58]
Ezra Levant
And by the way, so it means.
- [41:59]
Jordan Peterson
Whatever the hell they want.
- [42:00]
Ezra Levant
A lot of his friends happen to be in. I was, I was scheduled to go and Visit him on February 16th and I just got a letter from the prison governor saying, we understand you have a social media presence and we. And we're not going to let you in. The trouble with that is these visitors. I mean, I'm interested to hear how he's doing.
- [42:17]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Do you know how he's doing?
- [42:20]
Ezra Levant
Well, I hear from his family and there are some. And he's deteriorating.
- [42:25]
Jordan Peterson
Well, yeah, no doubt.
- [42:26]
Ezra Levant
You cannot spend it is a form of mental torture. It is. Solitary confinement is how you punish a prisoner who's always already in prison.
- [42:34]
Jordan Peterson
You can punish a psychopath with solitary confinement. That's how punishing it is. You can take the most antisocial person in the world and put him in solitary. And he's social enough so that. That's a punishment. Right. A serious punishment.
- [42:49]
Ezra Levant
But it's.
- [42:50]
Jordan Peterson
Now they have him in a maximum security prison, too.
- [42:52]
Ezra Levant
There are murderers in that prison. I was. I visited him once before they brought in this no visitors rule, and it was quite something to get through this labyrinth of doors. And I met with him early and he was in high enough spirits in the first month. Now he's in his fourth month there.
- [43:09]
Jordan Peterson
He'S got five more.
- [43:10]
Ezra Levant
That's right. And he's falling apart. Here's the problem with banning visitors.
- [43:14]
Jordan Peterson
He doesn't know what's going on.
- [43:16]
Ezra Levant
Not just that the visitors want to visit for their own sake. I want to talk to him about certain things. I want to report back certain things on his health. But from his point of view, he needs the visitors to stay sane.
- [43:28]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
- [43:30]
Ezra Levant
And he has certain visiting slots. His family cannot fill them all. His family is living a life. His kids are in school. And so there I was in court when the judge meted out the sentence. The judge gave him the maximum sentence allowed by law to be served in solitary. No such thing. The. The killer, the Southport Murderer.
- [43:50]
Jordan Peterson
Now, my understanding is that he requested solitary.
- [43:55]
Ezra Levant
No untrue.
- [43:56]
Jordan Peterson
Okay, so. So walk me through. Okay, so what I garnered or gleaned was that because the prison was so dangerous and was full of the sort of people, let's say, that might not be all that happy about Mr. Robinson, like the last prison he was in where he got beat up very badly, that he needed protection. But you're telling me that's not true.
- [44:15]
Ezra Levant
In fact, he always says, put me in the ward, put me in the wing and I'll fend for myself. And it's on you. Prison. The prison are putting the prison. Don't know what to do with them. Because you're correct to say in the uk.
- [44:28]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, because he's a civil defense.
- [44:30]
Ezra Levant
That's right. He's a civil prisoner. He didn't even. It wasn't a crime what he did. In the United States, you have different kinds of gangs in prison. There's the white gangs, the black gangs, the Latino gangs. You go to a gang for protection. In the uk, by far, the dominant gangs are the Muslims.
- [44:45]
Jordan Peterson
Right, Right.
- [44:45]
Ezra Levant
In fact, you convert to join. And the thing is, Tommy Robinson is a skeptic and a critic of Islam. And anyone who would put a knife into him would be a hero in the community forever.
- [44:57]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [44:58]
Ezra Levant
And so there are some ways to imprison such a man, especially if he's a civil prisoner. It's not a crime that he's in jail for. He put a video up. And let's get back to fact checkers for one second. Let me say this. The judge said what you're going to put online is not admissible in court. I reject it as the truth because it was not admissible in court under these rules of civil procedure. Okay, fair enough, Judge. But that doesn't mean it's not true and that doesn't mean it's not useful. And we don't all have to seek truth through a particular legal system where lawyers and judges determine what you're allowed to see and what you're not allowed to see. So what's happening is there's a battle between Tommy Robinson and the government of the United Kingdom over what is true. And a judge says in my courtroom, where Tommy did not have a lawyer, where he was sort of doing homemade law, you were not allowed to bring certain evidence into the trial. And so you're not allowed to put him in a different forum where you're more adept, a social media video. How is that anything other than a brutal fact check? And when Tommy Robinson didn't accept it, Solitary confinement. He'll serve nine months in solitary. I don't know anyone other than Julian Assange who's done that. And there really is a two.
- [46:14]
Jordan Peterson
Where's the prison?
- [46:15]
Ezra Levant
It's called Woodhill. It's in a town called Milton Keynes. It's about a 90 minute drive from Heathrow Airport. And I'm still hoping to go in. I wrote back to the prison governor just yesterday saying, look, I'll sign an NDA, which is obscene.
- [46:31]
Jordan Peterson
Right, right.
- [46:32]
Ezra Levant
And who this, this prison governor, who is she to say, I can't say what Tommy said and I can't say what I see, but I want to.
- [46:39]
Jordan Peterson
Actually put eyes on, especially outside the uk, it's just unheard of.
- [46:43]
Ezra Levant
Yeah, but I want to put eyes on him, I want to see what he's doing?
- [46:47]
Jordan Peterson
Absolutely.
- [46:48]
Ezra Levant
And they are delaying and delaying it. You know what? They would like him to die in prison and that would be a mistake? I think so. And what I've learned, my advice to him three months ago, was take the video down and don't go to jail for so long. Declare victory. But his victory is magnified much more by. And so they don't know how to deal with him. I want to tell you one more Tommy story. And I know I talk about him.
- [47:13]
Jordan Peterson
No, no. I want you.
- [47:14]
Ezra Levant
I go to the uk. I know you do too. And I think we love it for similar reasons. It's the source of our language and our culture and our history. The source of our freedom. You know, it's. I. I'm in love with the place.
- [47:25]
Jordan Peterson
Yep. Me too. Absolutely.
- [47:27]
Ezra Levant
I can't get enough. But it's also my trips there. I call them a dystopian time machine. When I go to the uk, I see what our future will be five years down the road if we don't change course on matters like mass immigration. That is not culturally net zero. Yeah. They're what they call Ulez. Ultra Low Emission zones in the.
- [47:46]
Jordan Peterson
Which means peasants don't get cars. That's what Ulez means. It doesn't mean you have cleaner Air Force folks. It means you can stay in your goddamn house and freeze to death in the dark.
- [47:56]
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- [48:21]
Ezra Levant
But you can also see what the dissidents are like. Tommy Robinson being one dissident, they had things there. People who call themselves Blade Runners, who go out with metal cutting saws, who take down those surveillance cameras in less than a minute. But I.
- [48:34]
Jordan Peterson
We don't approve of the Blade run.
- [48:35]
Ezra Levant
No. No, we absolutely don't.
- [48:37]
Jordan Peterson
Just so everyone knows. We certainly don't approve of the Blade Runners.
- [48:40]
Ezra Levant
It's amazing to see. I mean, remember what Orwell. Orwell said? If there's any hope, it's with the proles.
- [48:47]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [48:48]
Ezra Levant
Because the.
- [48:48]
Jordan Peterson
That's what left wingers used to believe. You know, back when they were on the left instead of wherever the hell they are now in the pockets of the wef.
- [48:56]
Ezra Levant
Tommy used to work for Rebel News back in the day. I mentioned we had some colorful characters. You name it, they passed the doors of Rebel News.
- [49:02]
Jordan Peterson
You and Menzies too.
- [49:04]
Ezra Levant
He's still with us. He's the best.
- [49:05]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. How many times has he been arrested now?
- [49:07]
Ezra Levant
Five times last year alone.
- [49:08]
Jordan Peterson
In Canada.
- [49:09]
Ezra Levant
In Canada.
- [49:09]
Jordan Peterson
He'd be in a journal. Journalist. How many times have you been arrested?
- [49:13]
Ezra Levant
Just once.
- [49:13]
Jordan Peterson
Just once. You have a look on that.
- [49:15]
Ezra Levant
But I was arrested. I was on the street near my neighborhood. I live in a fairly Jewish.
- [49:19]
Jordan Peterson
This is in Toronto.
- [49:20]
Ezra Levant
In Toronto.
- [49:21]
Jordan Peterson
Jewish neighborhood in Toronto. That's fun.
- [49:23]
Ezra Levant
Yeah.
- [49:24]
Jordan Peterson
And whoever thought we'd say that in Canada?
- [49:26]
Ezra Levant
Let me tell you what went down there, because it bothers me to this day. Every week, some Jews would wave Israeli and Canadian flags for the hostages who were being held by Hamas in a Jewish neighborhood on a Jewish street corner. It was an attempt to be positive, and they've been doing that for more than a year. A few months ago, Hamas supporters were driving all the way in from far away every Sunday on the opposite side of the street to have a counter demonstration with anti Semitic signs, loudspeakers, shouting insane, you know, from the river to the sea, swastikas. And then one day, they had someone reenact Yahya Sinwar's final moments. He was the head of Hamas who was found in a chair. So they brought this bloody chair and this guy with the.
- [50:19]
Jordan Peterson
How was he killed?
- [50:20]
Ezra Levant
He was killed, but I don't know what finally did him in. But there was a drone photograph of his drone video of his final moments. I see.
- [50:28]
Jordan Peterson
I see.
- [50:29]
Ezra Levant
So they were reenacting. It would be like reenacting a Hitler's bunker or something. And I just thought, this is crazy. And there's so many cops there, and I'm not particularly a fan of hate speech laws.
- [50:41]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [50:41]
Ezra Levant
But they're on the books, and I don't know what more you need than. So I went there just to take a picture. I didn't go there to counter protests. This is in my neighborhood. I saw it on social media.
- [50:52]
Jordan Peterson
Had you been at those sorts of protests before?
- [50:53]
Ezra Levant
I had been. I had been to record because. Because it's just astonishing. But that day, I was at home. I had no plans to go because it's every single weekend. But I thought, are they really reenacting this Hamas moment? So I went there and I said to the cops, I got to take a picture of that. And the first cop sort of escorted me in, and when the Hamas types objected, they sort of pushed me out, which I didn't like.
- [51:18]
Jordan Peterson
Objected on what grounds?
- [51:21]
Ezra Levant
That I'm Jewish.
- [51:22]
Jordan Peterson
You can't take a picture of their protest. Why the heck are they protesting? Take a picture of it. I was just at home.
- [51:28]
Ezra Levant
I was escorted away. I'm on the public sidewalk in my neighborhood. There's a wall of 30 cops between me and the Hamas types. And I'm sort of fussed because the cops pushed me away, but I'm. I'll never push a cop. I'm not that dumb. And then the top cop says, those protesters object to you being here? I said, I don't care. He said, your presence could incite them to breach the peace.
- [51:56]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah, well, that's on them, that's for sure.
- [51:59]
Ezra Levant
Public sidewalk, my neighborhood. The cops said, if you don't leave now, I'm arresting you.
- [52:04]
Jordan Peterson
I said, on what grounds?
- [52:06]
Ezra Levant
On your presence here is inciting them to breach the peace.
- [52:11]
Jordan Peterson
That's a crime.
- [52:13]
Ezra Levant
It is not a crime. In fact, I was not charged, but I was handcuffed. Frog marched to a police car, searched, put in the back of the police car, driven to jail, searched again, put in a cell.
- [52:25]
Jordan Peterson
What was that like?
- [52:27]
Ezra Levant
Well, I knew it was bs and my friend, my colleague, David Menzel.
- [52:31]
Jordan Peterson
Were you mad with. Mad at the cops?
- [52:33]
Ezra Levant
I was very mad at the cops who arrested me. The ones who obeyed and handcuffed me. I'm not gonna be mad at them. They were doing their job. When I was at the jail, you know, the guys in the jail had nothing to do with my arrest, so I was light hearted, you know, I mean, and that's another thing about being in jail. I've learned from Tommy Robinson is you are at the mercy of these guards. You are at the physical mercy of them. That's. To me, that's the most terrifying thing about prison, is that they can do whatever they want to you. And what are you going to say about it? What are you going to do about it?
- [53:08]
Jordan Peterson
And if they, especially if nobody can visit you.
- [53:11]
Ezra Levant
That's right.
- [53:11]
Jordan Peterson
Who can communicate.
- [53:13]
Ezra Levant
Exactly right. So I knew I would be out in a matter of hours because they didn't actually charge me with anything.
- [53:19]
Jordan Peterson
Right, right. So you weren't worried particularly?
- [53:21]
Ezra Levant
No, because I had been through this five times with David Menzies.
- [53:24]
Jordan Peterson
Right, right, right.
- [53:25]
Ezra Levant
Menzies walked up to tell us, tell.
- [53:27]
Jordan Peterson
Everybody who Menzies is first.
- [53:29]
Ezra Levant
Rebel News has some colorful characters and one of my favorites is a guy named David Menzies. He's in his early 60s, he wears a fedora, he's got an old fashioned style, he loves old pop culture references from the 70s. The guy's a character and he's a shoe Lev.
- [53:46]
Jordan Peterson
He reported on that trans professor from York who was on the swim team with all the 13 year old girls and got kicked out of the swimming pool for pointing that out. You're exactly which he should have pointed out. Yeah, and the parents let him get away with it, too. The. The, The. The professor, you know, I mean, what the hell? Seriously.
- [54:05]
Ezra Levant
And how many journalists would dare cover that?
- [54:07]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, well, him.
- [54:08]
Ezra Levant
Yeah. David went up to our deputy prime minister at the time, Christoph Freeland, on a public sidewalk at a public event. And it was about Iran. And the Liberals hadn't banned a certain Iranian terror group. And so David, with his lanyard and Mike, like, there's no. Everyone knew who he was. He went up to her and said, will you ban this group? And the RCMP swarmed him, pushed him against the wall and said, stop assaulting. Is that right? And they arrest him. If the cameras hadn't been there. Look, we all saw that the police assaulted David. They said David assaulted the police and they charged him with assault. When they saw that we caught it on tape, they let him go. David's been arrested so many times. During the pandemic, David went outside a Christmas party where Justin Trudeau was going to fundraiser with the Liberal Party. But this was when we weren't supposed to have Christmas parties. It was during the lockdown.
- [55:02]
Jordan Peterson
No, you weren't supposed to have Christmas parties.
- [55:04]
Ezra Levant
And that was David's one question. Why are you having a Christmas party when the rest of us are told not to? So David was waiting in the cold on the street with his cameraman for an hour for Trudeau's caravan to arrive.
- [55:16]
Jordan Peterson
You know, Covid was genetically engineered not to infect important people.
- [55:20]
Ezra Levant
You know, here's how this story ends. So everyone knows Menzies. He's very visible. He's got his camera. He's a cameraman there. There's no doubt who he is and what his purpose is. He's waiting with the Toronto Police Service for an hour. They're bantering. They're all just waiting for the prince to arrive. Entourage pulls up. They obviously radioed ahead and said, who's there? Oh, just Menzies. The RCMP bodyguards for Trudeau jump out of the vehicle, go straight to David and beat the daylights out of him. Smash him against the wall, dump him on the ground, beat him and then let him go. They don't even arrest him. They don't even arrest him, let alone charge him. They just beat him up. We're suing the police. Our other reporter in Quebec, Alexis Lavoie, you know, the trucker convoy, Rebel News. That was really our time to shine. The regime media were all on Justin Trudeau's script. This is the Maple Leaf Insurrection. This is the January 6th moment. For Canada.
- [56:25]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. It wasn't just for Canada either, like that, that that demonstration triggered all those farmers protests in the uk and it was a big deal.
- [56:32]
Ezra Levant
It was huge. It was the time when people paid attention to Canada in an interested, focused way. But Trudeau tried to have the script being, these are violent, racist people, fringe minority with unacceptable views.
- [56:45]
Jordan Peterson
That was his exact Confederate Nazis. You know, Canada's full of Confederate Nazis.
- [56:50]
Ezra Levant
So we were down there just with our citizen journalists, just filming everything on our phones. And in that month we had 400 million views and impressions, which is more than the average bunch of the CBC state broadcaster. I believe we helped stop the Trudeau narrative from taking root. Anyways, that trucker convoy was completely peaceful except one thing. There was one shooting. There were probably 10,000 or tens of thousands of people in Ottawa, and there were echo events all across the country. Who was the shooting? Our reporter, Alexa Lavoie. Clearly marked as a reporter, holding her cell phone, filming riot police and truckers. One riot cop with the RCMP takes out his riot gun at close range and shoots her in the leg. Her the only person in the end, and with the wadding and a huge bruise and you can hear her screams of pain. And by the way, the police don't offer her help afterwards. They shoot her and go, we're suing the RCMP for that as well. We've discovered that that weapon is not meant to be shot at. A person won't surprise you to learn you shoot it into an area on the ground and it releases tear gas. And you only do that with that weapon if things are very escalated, if there's like a riot underway, if people are storming something, you do not use that weapon preemptively because there's a bunch of people chanting. So it was used inappropriately, both in terms of manner and time. And is it a coincidence? And this is my conspiracy theory side, it's a coincidence how time we got to those that the only person in the country who was shot during the convoy was our reporter. And we complained to the rcmp. We're suing them, but we also complained to them. You know who the police have an internal complaint system. You know who they assigned it to. You know where the, the RCMP officer was based, who looked into this matter? You're not going to guess, but why don't you guess for fun?
- [58:55]
Jordan Peterson
I. I couldn't. Port au Prince, Haiti No, I wouldn't have guessed that.
- [59:00]
Ezra Levant
I gotta tell you, the RCMP is part of Trudeau's outreach to the Haitian community. In Montreal has RCMP officers stationed in Haiti to teach them how to be cops. You can accept that or not, but that was where the cop who's going to do this investigation of the shooting of Alexa Lavoie, our reporter, was based. It's so absurd.
- [59:20]
Jordan Peterson
And the article, what's the status of that?
- [59:22]
Ezra Levant
We're still proceeding. Oh, the investigation, yeah.
- [59:24]
Jordan Peterson
And the court case.
- [59:25]
Ezra Levant
A whitewash.
- [59:26]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, of course.
- [59:27]
Ezra Levant
David Menzies arrested five times. Alex Lavoie shot. We brought our whole team to Montreal to cover the curfew. I don't know if you remember, but Montreal had a curfew, I think, from 10pm to 5am Sick or not, jabbed or not, you couldn't leave your house.
- [59:45]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, I know.
- [59:46]
Ezra Levant
Now, journalists were exempt, as if journalists are some higher class. So we had a reporter who would go out and the police would hassle them. So then we sent three, and the police will hassle them. And I said, damn it, we're bringing the whole team. So we brought 17 rebels into town and. And I thought, well, I wonder if there's an Airbnb we could all fit in, because that's a lot of hotel rooms. And I found an Airbnb like a houseboat in the old port of Montreal where we could all fit. It had room for 24 people.
- [60:13]
Jordan Peterson
Summer, winter. When were you there?
- [60:14]
Ezra Levant
This was. I think it was the spring. Okay, I want to double check that.
- [60:20]
Jordan Peterson
That's okay.
- [60:21]
Ezra Levant
But we were there to do reporting on the streets during the curfew because the cops had been pushing around our people. And we brought a lawyer with us, and we're walking the streets at midnight and we have a lawyer with us on the ground to engage with French Montreal, French speaking police, en Francais, just to flex our muscles. And by the way, the Montreal police had never seen journalists out and about because they're so incurious and so obedient in the regime media that they would never think to report on this absurd curfew. So we had a great night out. We did curfew reporting late at night. Then we all go to our Airbnb houseboat, and then we get up the next morning and there's gonna be a protest. Well, wouldn't you know it? But the old Port of Montreal just happens to be the staging area for the police for this huge. So 50 police cars show up and they find out that's where the rebel news people are. So they seal off our houseboat with yellow police tape, and they come on our little houseboat and say, we're searching this place. Well. And I was off the boat at that time, but our youngsters had.
- [61:29]
Jordan Peterson
You flushed the cocaine by then?
- [61:30]
Ezra Levant
Our youngsters know to say, where's your warrant? I'm so proud of our young people. And they all said, get a warrant. And the cops said, you're gonna play that way. They sealed off our boat, and for the next 10 hours, no one was. They wanted to search every person and every room.
- [61:47]
Jordan Peterson
For what?
- [61:49]
Ezra Levant
It's not yet clear. I think they just wanted to.
- [61:52]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, yeah, of course.
- [61:54]
Ezra Levant
And we said, come back with a warrant. And I don't think they used to be talked to that way. Yeah, for 10 hours. They shop this around Quebec to try and find a judge. And God bless it, they couldn't find a judge to give him a search warrant.
- [62:06]
Jordan Peterson
Well, thank God for that, which is an amazing thing.
- [62:09]
Ezra Levant
That's the miracle of the story, that's for sure.
- [62:11]
Jordan Peterson
Thank God.
- [62:11]
Ezra Levant
Now we sued them, and they actually settled. They settled because they harassed a bunch of our people. They paid a bunch of our different journalists a certain sum of money, and then they wrote a letter, sort of a grudging, ironic apology. But it basically said, well, we didn't know who you were, and you always had your journalistic rights. And we sued the Montreal police. They paid our people, the people who were roughed up. They arrested Menzies.
- [62:38]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Of course, it took him to a crappy. Seemed like his fate.
- [62:41]
Ezra Levant
Yeah. You know Menzies, he's stubborn in a good way. And you don't want everyone in the world to be stubborn in a good way. But you want a few. I always like to say he's one in a million. Pause. Thank God.
- [62:52]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [62:53]
Ezra Levant
It's a joke. He's actually a national treasure. There's only a handful of journalists who are on the street. A lot of journalists just sit at their desk and Google. How about get out into the world? You never know what you're gonna see. And that's the rebel style. We love to travel also. We're from Canada. We got a fellow in Melbourne, Australia, Abba Yamini. That was a real lockdown center, too.
- [63:14]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right. He recorded just about as crazy as Montreal and Toronto.
- [63:17]
Ezra Levant
That's right. But we travel. For example, every year we go to Davos, Switzerland. That's this town that the World Economic Forum takes over.
- [63:26]
Jordan Peterson
How would you describe the World Economic Forum for everybody who's watching and listening?
- [63:30]
Ezra Levant
It sounds super boring, doesn't it? World Economic Forum. That sounds like, you know, economists studying the world. Sounds good. It's not. These are the Masters of the universe. I call them the vvips. These are prime ministers, presidents, royalty, pop culture stars.
- [63:50]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. And the question is why? You know, I asked some Davos attendants who were very well positioned, like, who the hell Klaus Schwab is? It's like, how in the world did this cartoon dictator of the world character manage to convene all these vvvips, as you call them? And Klaus Schwab is a convener, fundamentally. And he's certainly not elected. He has no.
- [64:12]
Ezra Levant
He owns it. He's an owner.
- [64:13]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, right.
- [64:14]
Ezra Levant
I call it a crypto government.
- [64:16]
Jordan Peterson
Here's what I. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
- [64:18]
Ezra Levant
You have members of government. Christie Freeland, Mark Carney. These are the two leading contenders for.
- [64:23]
Jordan Peterson
Hear that? That's Christia Freeland and Mark Carney. For those of you who are thinking about voting for them, a vote for them is definitely a vote for the wef. And there'll be a lot more about that on this channel soon.
- [64:34]
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- [65:01]
Ezra Levant
They're both board members of the World Economic Forum. Justin Trudeau was a global young leader. And Klaus Schwab bragd. And I'm going to say it in his German accent. We have penetrated the Cabinet of Canada.
- [65:14]
Jordan Peterson
Metaphor intended.
- [65:15]
Ezra Levant
You've got to do it in that accent because he really is like a Bond superpower.
- [65:18]
Jordan Peterson
That's for sure. It's such a comical, blackly comical reality.
- [65:24]
Ezra Levant
I don't have a problem with rich people meeting to talk.
- [65:27]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, well, they're going to, but what.
- [65:30]
Ezra Levant
Do they do there? Here's why I call it a crypto government. Number one. A real government has an independent press just to scrutinize things. The World Economic Forum. There's lots of journalists, but they pay to participate, so they'll never be skeptical or accountability journalists. We go, but we are not allowed in. We're kept outside the security perimeter because we ask unvetted questions.
- [65:51]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah, so that's where you're always lurking out there on the street like an ambush squad.
- [65:55]
Ezra Levant
That's right. And I'll Tell you in a minute some of our favorite catches.
- [65:58]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, yeah.
- [65:59]
Ezra Levant
Number two, in a real government, there's an opposition, and sometimes they rotate people through. That's a form of a check and balance. In a real government, there's a lobbyist registry who was meeting with.
- [66:10]
Jordan Peterson
Technically, it's a fascist, fascist organization. And fascism means to bind together. Right. And the fascists were big into the idea that, and this is kind of what defines fascism, that media, corporations, government should all be working together as a unit to push forward whatever the interest happens to be, whatever the agenda happens to be. And the WEF is a place where exactly that happens is that the elites of all the different power hierarchies meet and, well, conspire morally to improve the planet, despite the fact that they have no democratic standing and as you said, no opposition and no journalistic coverage and that it's a pay to play arrangement that's made Schwab and his cronies exceptionally rich. And that's really demented and twisted the world in unbelievably pathological ways. Net zero, that's a WF initiative, esg, Right. That stakeholder capitalism, that's all pouring out of the wef. That's the sort of thing, by the way, that Carney supports in spades. He's an architect of those policies and a distributor of them all the way, all around the world. Carney believes that 85% of the world's fossil fuels have to remain in the ground and that somehow, magically, Alberta in particular is going to have even better jobs under this new green economy that he can't define that's going to apparently run on hydrogen of all bloody things, all the pathological idiocies you can possibly imagine. So he's like Trudeau on steroids. And so, yeah, that's the WEF man in a nutshell. Every stupid idea you can possibly imagine the last 15 years has been promoted by the Davos crowd, all to Virtue Signal, because they're guilty about being, you know, I don't know, guilty about being rapacious billionaires. I suppose they could work a little on the rapaciousness and a little less on the virtue signaling. So anyways, okay, so you're in the WEF and you're out there trying to. What? What are you doing?
- [68:05]
Ezra Levant
Well, we're. We're outside the moat. I mean, it's a very high security place. It's hard to get there. They buy up every hotel room in town. So we stay one town over and take the train, Right?
- [68:15]
Jordan Peterson
So it's isolated to protect.
- [68:16]
Ezra Levant
That's right. And so we had to fly to Zurich, take three trains up, and we're not allowed in, so we're just on the cold streets.
- [68:23]
Jordan Peterson
Where do you stay?
- [68:24]
Ezra Levant
We stay one town over called Klosters. We in an Airbnb, typically. And they quintuple the prices that week, of course, that week more. The. The local airport, the private jet airport. They say that they do. They make their whole year's money in that one year. And if you go and watch and.
- [68:43]
Jordan Peterson
Think about the lovely carbon that's being.
- [68:44]
Ezra Levant
Produced, plants, they come in and it's such a small airport that they drop off the vvips, but then the planes have to go. Fly to another airport to park, and then they come and fly like it's an extra flight just to park the plane. I've never seen anything more carbon intensive. And then there's helicopters.
- [69:02]
Jordan Peterson
Probably got slightly greener around Davos because.
- [69:05]
Ezra Levant
Of all the CO2.
- [69:06]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, yeah.
- [69:06]
Ezra Levant
You know, they're against fuel and they're against food, even though.
- [69:11]
Jordan Peterson
No, no, no, no. They're against fuel and food for peasants.
- [69:14]
Ezra Levant
And. And that's the. So they're in their private jets. But you have to. You have to take public transit. I was in the streets of Davos two weeks ago, and I see a guy handing out energy bars. Like, there's a lot of kiosks and people giving away grab bags and goodies and it's cold, so they give away hot chocolate and tea. So one guy's giving away energy bars and people are flocking to it. But I notice, I notice on some box he has, it says, insect protein.
- [69:42]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah.
- [69:43]
Ezra Levant
So I said, who are you? What are you? And he actually talked to me for 15 minutes. His company's called Pumbaa. And if you know your Disney movies, there's a character that eats insects called Pumbaa.
- [69:54]
Jordan Peterson
Right, right.
- [69:54]
Ezra Levant
But on this candy bar, it does not say the word insect anywhere in the ingredients in tiny printed uses the Latin genus and species for the mealworm that's ground up. It's like a Dolphinus diaperinus or something.
- [70:09]
Jordan Peterson
Sounds delicious.
- [70:10]
Ezra Levant
I don't think one in a thousand people, one in a hundred thousand people knows what that is. And he was giving them away and he was saying, there's insect protein in it. But no one heard him. I would say with my camera, and I said, did you hear him? He said, there's insect protein in it. And some people were repulsed by it, others didn't care. They are doing creepy and weird things.
- [70:32]
Jordan Peterson
Bugs are the Right thing to do creepy things with.
- [70:34]
Ezra Levant
If you want to eat bugs, I'm not going to say don't, but don't sell it or give it away and hide it. There's a lot of strange things going on in the World Economic Forum, and I feel like.
- [70:48]
Jordan Peterson
Need a T shirt that says that. A lot of strange things going on in the World Economic Forum. Rebel News.
- [70:53]
Ezra Levant
Rebel News were sort of scruffy, and I mean, I say, the drawbridge comes down and these princes walk out onto the town, and we're there, these grubby peasants asking them questions out of the gutter. Two years ago, I think it was, we scrummed Albert Bourla, the CEO of Pfizer. This year, we scrummed Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock.
- [71:17]
Jordan Peterson
BlackRock. They're fun.
- [71:19]
Ezra Levant
And we had a lot of questions. We asked 70 questions. I later count. We walked and talked with Larry Fink for nine minutes, and we asked 70 questions. He answered zero. In fact, his bodyguard sort of pushed us a bit. And then Fink took out his cell phone, put it right in our face. Click, click. I said, you intimidating me. I'll tell you my name. I'm gonna make like. It was so weird.
- [71:41]
Jordan Peterson
Well, you haven't been on social media much, Ezra, but.
- [71:44]
Ezra Levant
And Albert Bourla. We were asking real questions. Yeah, we were annoying, I'll grant you that, but real. Like, my first question, Larry Fink, is, have you spoken to the President yet? Are you moving away from esg and are you going to come to his way of thinking like Zuckerberg did? I don't. I really am curious, because Larry Fink is a real.
- [72:03]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, because Vanguard has moved away from ESG to somebody.
- [72:05]
Ezra Levant
So it was a real question. And then I asked a bunch of questions. I said, are you putting your ideology above shareholder returns?
- [72:12]
Jordan Peterson
Like, if you're making investments, that's the definition of esg.
- [72:15]
Ezra Levant
Yeah. And that's a real question. And maybe I wasn't, as I was fairly polite. I said, Mr. Fink, et cetera. Why would he walk with us for nine minutes but not deign to give us an answer? And Albert Bourla, the same thing. We said, when did you know that the vaccine didn't actually block transmission? You said it was 100% effective than 90, 80, 70. I said, when did you know? I asked him real questions. And my colleague, Abi Yamini, did, too. The fact that we were on the street and not vetted disgusted these men. Both of them had probably done 10 interviews that day, but the interviews were with Trusted partners who had actually paid to attend the World Economic Forum. The idea that they would be in an unscripted moment and, oh, an answer to anyone was beneath them. That contempt, if you ask me. What is the World Economic Forum? That's what it is. It's these masters of the universe who like to hang out with other masters of the universe and who have contempt to talk about humanity, but they actually hate people. And I've been going for four years and you never know what you're going to get there.
- [73:24]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. I'm very afraid that that's exactly the sort of attitude that characterizes Mr. Carney. And I'm more convinced about that after reading his book quite carefully. Values. It's like, yeah, he likes humanity, but, you know, food, shelter, clothing and heat or air conditioning for you or your car, you know, do you get to have a car under Mark Carney? You know, the globalist, utopian types, they'd like to see a 95% reduction in private car ownership.
- [73:51]
Ezra Levant
This is a place that came out with the Think piece. You'll own nothing and you'll be happy.
- [73:56]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Yeah. Or else you'll bloody well be happy. Or at least you won't get to complain. You'll own nothing and you won't get to complain.
- [74:04]
Ezra Levant
But let me say one thing. I've just spent 10 minutes criticizing the World Economic Forum. But I'll say this, and it's probably a compliment of Switzerland more than the World Economic Forum. There are hundreds of very well armed police and military in Davos with big firearms.
- [74:20]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [74:21]
Ezra Levant
It feels extremely safe. By the way, they have never once tried to stop us from scrumming these vb.
- [74:28]
Jordan Peterson
As long as you touch them.
- [74:29]
Ezra Levant
Not that I would ever touch anyone. Yeah. John Kerry, the former Secretary of State and climate ambassador, he walks around all the time and he actually talks to us while we walk. Very interesting. And like all these vbips, Larry Fink had two sort of tough guys with them that pushed us a bit. But as long as you don't touch the vvip, you can scrum them. The cops don't care. In fact, I think the cops get a kick out of it.
- [74:52]
Jordan Peterson
I think the cops in Canada would get a kick out of it, too.
- [74:55]
Ezra Levant
They've been politicized by their mayors and police commissions and all the way down. The police in Canada becoming more political every day. They would in Switzerland. They would never do what they did to me or to Menzies or to Alexei Lavoie. Never do that houseboat raid. They actually are gentle police With a light touch there.
- [75:13]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. Well, it's a terrible thing to think of that, that harder handed, politicized police presence being part and parcel of Canada. That's really not a good thing.
- [75:23]
Ezra Levant
Yeah, yeah.
- [75:24]
Jordan Peterson
And I think you guys, you know, love you or hate you or maybe a bit of both. You guys have been canaries in the coal mine for Canada for a long time. And also not just Canada. Right. Because how much, how much of your viewership is international?
- [75:38]
Ezra Levant
You know, I'd say 60% is Canadian and then US and the UK after that, and then Australia.
- [75:45]
Jordan Peterson
Right. So 40% international. Is that primarily the US or. Yeah, the US well, it's such a big population.
- [75:52]
Ezra Levant
That's right. And then the uk especially when we. Oh, yeah, we cover Tommy. Because the domestic media in the uk, they're uniformly against them, which is strange.
- [76:01]
Jordan Peterson
Because it is strange.
- [76:02]
Ezra Levant
So many ordinary Brits really follow Tommy.
- [76:06]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. How many people do you think were at that last rally? That was what, two weeks ago? Maybe something like that. It's February 9th today and so it would have been about two weeks ago. And that was a free Tommy Robinson rally, right?
- [76:17]
Ezra Levant
That's right.
- [76:17]
Jordan Peterson
And I couldn't get any reasonable estimate of the number of people that showed up. And it was peaceful. Again, being a bunch of rallies that Robinson has been involved in or at the core of.
- [76:27]
Ezra Levant
Yeah.
- [76:27]
Jordan Peterson
That have been like the trucker convoy, markedly peaceful. Right. And that's very weird because you'd also expect them to be sold with agents provocateur who are there to cause trouble to discredit the organization. But even, even given that those rallies have been peaceful and you can see in the UK that the working class, the genuine working class, like the actual inhabitants of. Of Britain, are not happy and, and hold viewpoints that aren't well represented by the standard political parties and certainly not by the media. Yeah.
- [77:01]
Ezra Levant
You know that the city of Rotherham.
- [77:04]
Jordan Peterson
Yep.
- [77:05]
Ezra Levant
Depends on how you measure the size of the city. And the counties put a hundred thousand souls there. So about 50,000 are women. Take out the children and the old people. I don't know, is it 25,000 women of a certain age? 1400 of them were raped by rape gangs. And when I say raped, I don't mean raped once.
- [77:24]
Jordan Peterson
Right.
- [77:24]
Ezra Levant
I mean raped every night for months or years by multiple men. Yeah, but these were working class British.
- [77:31]
Jordan Peterson
Girls, they don't count.
- [77:33]
Ezra Levant
And the rapists, over 80% of them were British, Pakistani, Muslim men. So you had the perfect storm. You had girls who were nobody's nothing. Oh, that's what are they nothing.
- [77:46]
Jordan Peterson
Slags.
- [77:47]
Ezra Levant
And then you had perpetrators. Oh, we don't dare mention them.
- [77:53]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [77:53]
Ezra Levant
And so this went on for years, for decades even.
- [77:56]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, I know. It's, it's a, it's. Well, it's one of those crimes that has. Look, look.
- [78:01]
Ezra Levant
And that's just.
- [78:02]
Jordan Peterson
I always think of my mother when, when I'm having a conversation like this, because my mom, I took my mom to Australia and I traveled with her and her sister. And they're conventional Canadians and they were accustomed to believing ctv, believing Lloyd Robertson, believing the cbc. And you know, for a long time that wasn't completely unreasonable. Right. The legacy media in Canada, like most Canadian institutions, was pretty damn solid, centrist, pretty reliable. And then. Well, and then it wasn't. And that started probably 15 years ago, maybe, something like that. But when you guys, you know, popped your head above the turret and imagine someone like her or her sister, these conventional, hard working, middle class or working class Canadians who are accustomed to trusting their institutions, and then all of a sudden all of that goes sideways and they're, they're asked to believe things like what we're talking about. You know, they're asked to believe that the food pyramid's a scam and that the school systems were set up by fascists and that the WF is a global conspiracy of crypto fascists who want to take everybody's vehicles and that there are rape gangs operating at a scale in the UK that involve maybe a million girls. No one knows, right? No one knows. And even that's like, is it 10,000? Is it 100,000? Is it a million? Oh, we don't know. Well, maybe you should look into it. Well, if you're in a person, in the shoes of a person like that, you either have to believe that everything that you thought was true in your life is flipped upside down, or that you're being scammed by conspiracy theorists. Well, it's. Of course you're going to believe the latter because why the hell wouldn't you? You know, and you have to kind of be dragged. Even Michael Shellenberger, you know, he broke the W path story, right? That's that preposterous group of perverted psychopaths who purport to be experts in psychopathology and have defined the standards of care for gender affirming butchery conducted on minors. That's wpath, run by Marcy Bowers. I think it's Bowers or Bowers, who's a transsexual surgeon who is involved in the Jazz Jennings case, which they Made a reality TV show out of. Yeah, that W path. Well, Schonberg told me when I interviewed him that I'd interviewed. Was it Helen Joyce or Abigail Shrier? I talked to both of them who were early investigators into the gender affirming scandal. He said when he first heard the interview, he couldn't believe it was true.
- [80:32]
Ezra Levant
Yeah.
- [80:33]
Jordan Peterson
And that Schellenberger, you know, and he was a lefty back in the day and clued in and woke up, and he's a hell of a investigative journalist, but even Shellenberger couldn't believe it. There's like 50 things that are happening that you can't believe. And that's, you know, one of the things that you guys have done in rebel news is like, you've been on the forefront of cracking these preposterous stories and. And then, you know, you're arrested for your trouble in Canada. It's so preposterous. It's like, how the hell did Canada become a place where. Well, first of all, muck raking journalists are necessary, and they certainly are that bloody CBC, right? It's 1.5 billion a year, plus $600 million in advertising from the federal government to have no audience. They have no audience, right, except people over 60, and they've been struggling to get a purchase on YouTube for, like, 10 years. They've disallowed comments because that's how clueless they are. And no one watches their material. Like, they literally get hundreds of views, which means that even the staff that made the shows don't watch them. Right. And so. And so here we are in Canada, and Mark Carney's come along to save the Canada, and. But really to save the planet. And Canadians are daft enough to start. You can see the scales tilting in his favor. You know, I mean, we were going to decimate the Liberals because Trudeau's been such an absolute bloody nightmare catastrophe in his narcissistic and incompetent manner. And now Carney's coming waltzing in from the bank of England with his ESG and his DEI and his net zero. And as you don't need fossil fuels, peasants, or cars, and Canadians are lining up to vote for him. Jesus.
- [82:14]
Ezra Levant
I saw an amazing poll about Trump's idea, his social media banter about Canada becoming the 51st state. Now, I think he just likes poking at Trudeau. He. I mean, Trudeau, Trump is a master of the insulting nickname. Like, he's just.
- [82:28]
Jordan Peterson
He's definitely got. That's an art.
- [82:30]
Ezra Levant
He's an entertainer and he's Quick thinking, mischievous fellow.
- [82:34]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [82:34]
Ezra Levant
So he met with Trudeau at Mar a Lago, and he detected certain he.
- [82:39]
Jordan Peterson
Didn'T let him stay there that night. No.
- [82:41]
Ezra Levant
And he poked at him a bit. The thing is, 10 years ago, you would have said to Canadians who want to join the States. I think Canadians would say, no, first of all, we're wealthier. There was a point in time when the average Canadian on an individual basis was wealthier than.
- [82:53]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, well, we've dispensed with that. It's 60% now.
- [82:56]
Ezra Levant
There were a lot of things that the Canadians were saying, you know, we really like America, but boy, we're glad we're good. But what's happened over the last ten years on everything. Forget tangible things like money, mass immigration, crime. What about intangibles? What about a prime minister who took John A. McDonald off our $10 bill?
- [83:17]
Jordan Peterson
Who says the country has no national identity, but insults Daniel Smith for not being patriotic and enough to sacrifice the Alberta economy to Canada, a Canada that's a patriarchal, oppressive, you know, what would you say? Post colonial, identityless state.
- [83:31]
Ezra Levant
And he. And he said those things in an interview with a foreign newspaper. Nonetheless, it was a New York Times. But not just that. Trudeau says we're a genocidal country. The genocide continues. He says we're sexist, transphobic. He. In so many ways, he makes grand apologies all the time, but not for himself, for. For the country. So you've had almost 10 years of him degrading and demoralizing and denaturing, cutting people off from our roots and our history and our culture and identity and.
- [84:00]
Jordan Peterson
Destroying the economy at the same time.
- [84:02]
Ezra Levant
So if you're a young. So if you're a young man and you want to buy a home and start a life and get a job, all of those things, a lot of young people live with their parents so well into their 30s, not because their failure to launch. You can't buy a home in Canada. It's twice as much in, and we.
- [84:17]
Jordan Peterson
Don'T have much land. You know, but all of a sudden.
- [84:20]
Ezra Levant
When Trump says, would you like to join the U.S. we'll trade in your dollars at par. There'll be no tariffs, and you'll have a strong military.
- [84:27]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [84:27]
Ezra Levant
You know, you're a young man, and for 10 years you've been told by Trudeau that your country means nothing. It's just a hotel, worse than nothing. And. And here's this strong, masculine guy who's commanding authority and make. He truly is making America great again. And when he says that it's plausible.
- [84:42]
Jordan Peterson
And when he's got these monsters like Musk on his side, he was tromping through the grapevine and the world is.
- [84:48]
Ezra Levant
Bending the knee to him, whether it's the Japanese Prime Minister or a Korean investor or whatever. Yeah.
- [84:53]
Jordan Peterson
And he just made a deal with the Japanese.
- [84:55]
Ezra Levant
Deal.
- [84:56]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, yeah. For a deal where Trudeau had. Because the Japanese Prime Minister had come to Canada and Trudeau said, we can't make a business case. Right.
- [85:04]
Ezra Levant
So is it surprised that young men, of all the demographics say, you know what? I'll take Trump up on that deal. Deal.
- [85:08]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [85:09]
Ezra Levant
I. I forget the. I think it was 43%. I think 43% of young men. I'm going from memory here, said, yeah, we'll take that deal. And that's without a campaign that's just based on a few tweets.
- [85:19]
Jordan Peterson
Casual. Yeah.
- [85:20]
Ezra Levant
Instagram. And. And there's many things to love about America. I mean, there's an amazing number of things to love about America. But imagine abandoning your history, your culture, your tradition, your borders, your institutions. That's how Trudeau has eroded in. In the country.
- [85:34]
Jordan Peterson
Yep.
- [85:34]
Ezra Levant
And I don't blame Trump for finding that weakness and shaking it. That's what you do when you're America first. You. You get.
- [85:41]
Jordan Peterson
And when you're negotiating, I don't think Canada's learned a damn thing from it yet. I mean, the Quebec premier came out this week and basically said there was no damn way they were going to put pipelines across the country. Right. Can't make an economic or a global case for that. It's like, hey, you know, have it your way, buddy. Where do you think your transfer payments are going to come up with? Come. Come from. If Alberta decides to pack up and.
- [86:02]
Ezra Levant
Leave, I think that Mark Carney's ideas are ten years too late. Ten years ago, carbon taxes, esg, Wokeism. And he made a little statement the other day saying he's for Wokeism. In his mind, that means inclusiveness. That's not what woke means one bit.
- [86:18]
Jordan Peterson
He knows exactly what it means to the degree that he knows what anything means.
- [86:22]
Ezra Levant
He absolutely is the World Economic Forum candidate.
- [86:25]
Jordan Peterson
Absolutely.
- [86:26]
Ezra Levant
But I think that I'm a leader.
- [86:28]
Jordan Peterson
Rather than a follower. Because Trudeau was a follower.
- [86:30]
Ezra Levant
Right.
- [86:30]
Jordan Peterson
Carney's a leader.
- [86:31]
Ezra Levant
Carney is smart, and Carney is a doer. Like, you don't get those. Chairman of Brookfield, the governor of the.
- [86:39]
Jordan Peterson
Bank of Canada and bank of England. Yeah, well. And he looks to Canadians, you know, when you can understand this, Carney looks like someone with vast International experience.
- [86:48]
Ezra Levant
Incredibly. Yeah, he looks the part.
- [86:50]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, he's. Well, Trudeau looked a certain part to it quite effectively.
- [86:53]
Ezra Levant
And.
- [86:54]
Jordan Peterson
But this is different. Carney has that senior statesman appeal, but values that. I mean, and then for Carney to announce his leadership as an outsider, it's like that. I see. So you're going to start off on an American conversation lie. Yeah, I'm an outsider.
- [87:10]
Ezra Levant
I can't imagine any American candidate for president announcing their candidacy on a foreign network. Can you imagine Trump or Kamala Harris announcing they're running for the President of the United States on the BBC. But, but absurdly, Mark Carney announced his candidacy in New York City. I think if Carney takes over, win, win. He's going when he's going to win on March 9th.
- [87:35]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [87:35]
Ezra Levant
And then he's going to do a deal with the NDP and he will become Prime Minister till October without ever having won an election.
- [87:42]
Jordan Peterson
I think they'll stretch it out till September of 2026 because there is some grounds for presuming they could do so well. Look, what's the alternative? You know, at the moment, unless things invert in the polls, if Carney led the Liberals to an election, they're going to get decimated. So why would you do that?
- [87:58]
Ezra Levant
Right. I'm also worried about foreign meddling. Carney is deep with China, Communist China, and that's been a problem in Canada. There was the various thesis that's Canada's spy agency saying that the Chinese Communist Party interfered in at least 11 electoral districts. Trudeau turned a blind eye to it because he was the beneficiary of that. In fact, Communist donors would come and make donations directly to the Trudeau Foundation. I'm worried about ties to China and I'm worried about ties to Iran and I just don't think that. I don't think that Canada is going to survive as a first ranked nation. If the Liberals aren't turf this year.
- [88:38]
Jordan Peterson
Are we a first ranked nation now?
- [88:40]
Ezra Levant
We're clinging on by our fingernails.
- [88:42]
Jordan Peterson
The only reason we're still a first ranked nation is because Europe has done itself in at about the same rate Canada has.
- [88:48]
Ezra Levant
And we're lucky that we're right next to America. Not only do we benefit economically, but a lot of their cultural discussions wash over into us. And I think, I mean, look what Trump has done on transgenderism in sports. He's just ended with a stroke of a penny.
- [89:01]
Jordan Peterson
Gender affirming care too.
- [89:02]
Ezra Levant
Even small things like saying we're done with paper straws. I mean, I know that sounds small. But show me someone who's ever liked that.
- [89:09]
Jordan Peterson
And yes, I like the paper straws that come in plastic. The single use paper straws that come in plastic wrappers. I'm very fond of those.
- [89:16]
Ezra Levant
What does it say about a country that abides that stupid rule that no one likes, but we just abided it, we just accepted it. What does it say about the nature and of the character of 40 million Canadians?
- [89:28]
Jordan Peterson
It says that we're willing to virtue signal at our own expense.
- [89:32]
Ezra Levant
And we saw that during the pandemic and the lockdowns when things went so hard in Canada.
- [89:36]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah, that's for sure.
- [89:36]
Ezra Levant
And it was an opportunity for people to. I'll show my righteousness by being a, a voluntary self appointed enforcer. The phenomenon that people enjoyed.
- [89:47]
Jordan Peterson
That man, Toronto was rife with informers. It was something to see. I certainly understand the mass patrols who.
- [89:52]
Ezra Levant
Would come up to you and give you. And here's the thing, and I know where pandemic's gone now, but this said something about our character.
- [89:59]
Jordan Peterson
We can have another one.
- [90:01]
Ezra Levant
Yeah. If you actually were worried about the virus and you saw someone without a mask, you would walk away, you would run away, you would take your children and run. If someone with Ebola came into the mall without a mask, you wouldn't go up to them and say, hey, put on your mask.
- [90:15]
Jordan Peterson
Well, you would if you were sacrificing yourself for the good of the planet.
- [90:19]
Ezra Levant
But they, there was an opportunity to be more virtuous than that person. But you have the point. I think this is what, and I, I watch so many of those videos and I myself was a bit of a mask, not wearing a dissident. So I had a lot of encounters and here's it. It wasn't even virtue signaling, it was. I'm worried that if I didn't wear a mask, the rules would come down on me, there would be some consequence on me. So if you're not wearing a mask and no consequences are happening to you, the world is out of joint. I made the wrong decision.
- [90:51]
Jordan Peterson
You're an indication of my cowardice.
- [90:53]
Ezra Levant
I must fill the gap and be the consequence to you to justify my cowardice. So it's not so much that I'm better than you, it's oh my God, you're getting away with it. And I didn't, I didn't think I could. I better stop you from getting away with it because otherwise what's my excuse for being so submissive?
- [91:11]
Jordan Peterson
Well, and then there's the, the ever present enjoyment in getting to rat on your neighbors. And we never want to. What, underestimate just how pleasurable that can be. So I think 70% of people in Toronto would have worn a mask for the rest of their life if they could have continued to inform on their neighbors.
- [91:29]
Ezra Levant
I got to tell you one last story. I know we're time is of the essence. Do you know what the Amish are? Have you ever heard of the Amish? Oh, yeah, they're Christian, from Europe. They speak German amongst themselves.
- [91:40]
Jordan Peterson
They're like the Mennonites in Alberta.
- [91:42]
Ezra Levant
Yeah, they're very old fashioned. They don't use modern technology at all. They don't drive. They don't have electricity. They don't have smartphones. They're farmers, very poor, and they keep to themselves. And they're pacifists. That's another thing to know about them. They do not want to engage in any disobedience. They keep to themselves. They're reclusive. There's a lot of them in Pennsylvania and there's a lot of them in Ontario. We heard about this from a friend of the Amish that the Amish used to go back and forth between Ontario and the US to visit the other colonies down there for dates, for family events. So every time the Amish would come back across the border into Canada during the pandemic, there was a border officer who would say, have you downloaded the Arrive can app on your smartphone?
- [92:31]
Jordan Peterson
Right.
- [92:31]
Ezra Levant
Right now, for your American viewers, they don't know what Arrive can is. It's a mandatory app, sort of spyware that you have to give all your health details, all your vax details. You have to put it in this app on your phone or you get a $6,000 fine. So the Amish, they don't know what download or app or they know what a smartphone is. They just don't have them. Arrive Can. So they, they would go. Every time they would come back to Canada, every single person, including children, would get a $6,000 fine.
- [93:01]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [93:02]
Ezra Levant
Oh, yeah. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. But they're, they're, they're not on the Internet. They're not on phones or faxes. They're really cut off. So years go by and an Amish goes to the bank to get a loan for some livestock and pledges the farm as the security. And the banker types in and says, I'm sorry, I can't give you the loan. There's a lien against your farm.
- [93:28]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah.
- [93:29]
Ezra Levant
And then another Amish passes away, wants to bequeath the farm to his son. Can't. There's a lien on it. You got to sell the farm to pay the lien. Soon the whole community does this. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in tickets now. It was a miracle we found out about this because they don't know what Rev News is. They don't follow the Internet or watch tv. A friendly non Amish neighbor heard them talking about this and heard. So we helped. There's a charity called the Democracy Fund. I know you've spoken at one of the events before. The Democracy Fund has dispatched lawyers to help the Amish and to crack open these cases again and redo them. And basically these were trials in absentee. The Amish were not there. And we're having some success at. It's hard to crack open a case once it's guilty.
- [94:19]
Jordan Peterson
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [94:20]
Ezra Levant
But just stop for one second. The Amish, they're not hidden. They wear the black hats and they're unique. They almost look like Orthodox Jews in a way. And in Cannes, they go on horse and carriage. Yeah. You know an Amish when you see it. And you can probably detect that they're not smart for phone friendly.
- [94:38]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [94:38]
Ezra Levant
How many people in the Canadian bureaucracy would have been involved from that first border agent to his manager to his manager to the court to the prosecutor to the judge and then to convict. But I have never heard of a lien being put liens on all their farms.
- [94:58]
Jordan Peterson
Well, that's what would happen if you didn't pay the tickets.
- [95:00]
Ezra Levant
I haven't met anyone else in the country who has had that happen.
- [95:04]
Jordan Peterson
I see. Oh, oh, okay.
- [95:05]
Ezra Levant
For an Arrive can app. Yes. That is the ultimate way that the government gets their money. I've just never heard of that in the country. How many people were involved from that first?
- [95:15]
Jordan Peterson
Wasn't that the same Arrive can app that the Liberals paid $45 million for and some team of hackers built over a weekend for 350?
- [95:22]
Ezra Levant
Indeed it was.
- [95:22]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah. That derived can app.
- [95:24]
Ezra Levant
But the not one person. There must have been a hundred people involved. Not one person said, what the hell are we doing? What are we doing? What? Not one person.
- [95:35]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [95:36]
Ezra Levant
Not one person. Now I'm not saying that's Canada only. I bet stupid things happen in America too. In fact, the Amish were persecuted in America. That's why they became politicized under the Biden administration. They started cracking down on raw milk. And I think that the Amish realized their way of life was in jeopardy. And so in very un Amish thing to do was they became political And I saw, I probably saw the footage also of these horses and carriages with the Trump flags. I've never seen an Amish do that before. They must have thought this is do or die time. That's one of the reasons why Trump carried Pennsylvania is because the Biden administration was an existential threat to the Amish way of life, including no connection to the government, just natural living. Very, very interesting, the contrast between America where the. Anyhow, but the Amish in Canada, they're being helped by the Democracy Fund now. So I'm pleased.
- [96:27]
Jordan Peterson
So let's close with just a bit more about Rebel News in general. And then we'll go to the Daily Wire side. I think I'll talk to you on the Daily Wire side about the alliance for Responsible Citizenship, because I know you went to our first conference and so we'll chat about that. We can talk a little bit more about the Trump administration and what Elon Musk is finding and, and usaid. And so if you want to join us on the Daily Wire side for that, please, please, you feel welcome to do that. The Daily Wire makes all these podcasts possible and, you know, follows me all around the world. I'm in Winnipeg today. I was in Florida yesterday, in Washington before that name. Set up the camera crews and everything. Wherever I go. It's extremely useful and handy and make all these YouTube videos possible. And so, you know, we do an extra half an hour on the Daily Wire side and that's, that's for subscribers only. But if you're inclined to follow all my material from the last 15 years, including a bunch of specials I did too for the Daily Wire, Western Civilization specials on marriage and vision and success and on Exodus and the Gospels. That's all available there as well. So, you know, give it a shot if you're inclined. Ezra, why don't you let people know where they can follow Rebel News? Like what's, what's the best places to. What's the best place to watch you or the multiple places to watch you and your intrepid, troublemaking, rabble rousing reporters.
- [97:47]
Ezra Levant
Sure. I mean, rebelnews.com is our home page and some of our talents are on Twitter. I can follow us on Twitter also. It's just Rebel News online and we're mainly operating in Canada. We have Avi Amini based in Melbourne, Australia, but we love to travel to World Economic Forum to when there was a big freedom of speech rally in Sao Paulo, Brazil, when the Brazilian government banned the entire Twitter app for everybody, we went down there. I've never been in a crowd of 100,000 people, or maybe it was 200,000 people. It was astonishing. And they actually were rallying for freedom of speech. I'm so glad we went. So that's the kind of kamikaze flight to Sao Paulo for one day to go to a rally and come back. We just went to Maui, not for a vacation.
- [98:36]
Jordan Peterson
Sure.
- [98:37]
Ezra Levant
That's what Trudeau says too. How's the wildfire reconstruction going? I want to know because I got some friends in LA who want a premonition of what's to come. It's been 18 months since the wildfires destroyed the town of Lahaina. 95% of the lots have not had a brick of reconstruction. They're just covered with gravel. But fema, the Federal Emergency Management Administration, has set up camps of tiny homes a year and a half into it. And there's all sorts of schemes to take the land and do other things with it. Low income housing, environmental housing.
- [99:15]
Jordan Peterson
Same things could happen la.
- [99:16]
Ezra Levant
And obviously it's heartbreaking a year and a half later, no. So I mean, Maui is a beautiful place. That city is a heartbreaking place. And over 100 people died in that fire too. And there was politics in that. So Rebel News, we love covering Canada, we love covering Trump. We, we, we have a reporter in the United Kingdom now, Sammy Woodhouse. She was one of those 1400 girls in Rotherham. She was the whistleblower, she was the one who rang the bell, she was the one who broke the silence and went to the newspapers. Sammy Woodhouse, moral authority, resilient. She's our new reporter in the uk. So I'm. So Rebel News is here and there, but we also travel to find the news where we see it. Let me give you an anecdote. I went to the town of Dundrum, Ireland. I know you haven't heard of it because it's less than 200 people there. It's like a picture book. It's so beautiful. And then the Irish government contracts with the local hotel to take over all the rooms and moves in 240 military age migrant men. And in one fell swoop, Dundrum is now a minority Irish village. No. Just what is going on over there. And rebel in Ireland.
- [100:34]
Jordan Peterson
In Ireland, there's a crazy country for you.
- [100:36]
Ezra Levant
Yeah, man.
- [100:36]
Jordan Peterson
If. If you want a country on the forefront of every woke nightmare you can possibly imagine, you'd be harder pressed than to find. You'd be hard pressed to find a better example than Ireland.
- [100:45]
Ezra Levant
I mean, they resisted the British for centuries, they resisted domination. But they're welcoming it now. I don't understand it.
- [100:52]
Jordan Peterson
Yeah.
- [100:53]
Ezra Levant
They never colonized anyone. They don't have some repentance to do. They don't have to pay reparations to anyone. They're the ones. Why are they doing this? I don't know. It's astonishing. I'm glad I visited Ireland while it was still Irish. And I would say to anyone out there, go visit that beautiful country while it's still Irish.
- [101:10]
Jordan Peterson
Well, we've got another half an hour to do for the daily work. Good to see you, man. Thanks for coming to talk to me in Lyn. Yeah. And to everybody watching and listening, thank you very much for your time and attention.