527. Katy Faust Savages Hookup Culture

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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Published: Thu Mar 06 2025

Jordan Peterson sits down with author, speaker, and founder and president of the children’s rights organization Them Before Us, Katy Faust. They discuss the ethics of surrogate pregnancies, the importance of both mother and father in the home, the purpose of marriage being for the child — not the adults, and abysmal outcomes of no-fault divorce in our culture. Katy Faust is the founder and president of Them Before Us, a global movement defending children’s right to their mother and father. She publishes, speaks, and testifies widely on why marriage and family are matters of justice for children. Her articles have appeared in Newsweek, USA Today, The Federalist, Public Discourse, WORLD Magazine, The Daily Signal, the Washington Examiner, the American Mind, and the American Conservative. She is on the advisory board for the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship. Katy helped design the teen edition of CanaVox, which studies sex, marriage, and relationships from a natural law perspecti...

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast – Episode 527: Katy Faust Savages Hookup Culture

Introduction

In Episode 527 of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, hosted by Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, the conversation delves into the impacts of hookup culture on children and society at large. Dr. Peterson is joined by Katie Faust, the founder and president of Them Before Us, an organization advocating for the intrinsic and inalienable rights of children. The discussion explores the tension between adult desires and children's rights, particularly in the context of modern family structures, surrogacy, and hookup culture.

Katie Faust’s Background and Mission

Katie Faust introduces herself as the founder of Them Before Us, emphasizing her commitment to prioritizing children's rights over adult interests. She references her authored works, including Them Before Us (2021), Raising Conservative Kids in a Woke City (2023), and Pro Child Politics. Faust asserts that family, educational, economic, and marriage policies should prioritize the natural rights of children to foster societal flourishing.

Katie Faust [00:53]: "Family policy, educational policy, economic policy, policy surrounding marriage should prioritize the natural rights of children."

The Rights of Children vs. Adult Interests

A central theme of the episode is the conflict between adult self-interest and the rights of children. Faust argues that adults often sacrifice children's well-being to fulfill their own desires, a notion she finds unjustifiable.

Katie Faust [00:31]: "Children have a right to their mother and father."

Dr. Peterson challenges this perspective by suggesting that in a well-functioning society, the long-term interests of children and adults naturally align, arguing that adults acting in the best interests of children ultimately benefit society as a whole.

Jordan Peterson [07:02]: "The interests of children and adults truly align, but they align over the long run."

Surrogacy and Family Structure

The discussion intensifies around surrogacy and its implications for children's rights. Faust criticizes surrogacy arrangements, highlighting the emotional and psychological toll on children who grow up without a stable, singular parental figure.

Katie Faust [23:36]: "Surrogacy... forces children to sacrifice something so adults can have what they want."

Dr. Peterson shares his personal anecdote about a friend who opted for surrogacy to have children, questioning the replicability and sustainability of such arrangements for societal stability.

Jordan Peterson [27:27]: "...they did as good a job of this as it's possible to do. Now they have these two children who are apparently thriving..."

Faust counters by asserting that even though some surrogacy arrangements succeed, they inherently violate the child's right to a consistent maternal and paternal presence.

Katie Faust [24:40]: "Children have a right to their mother and father."

Impact of Hookup Culture on Children

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of hookup culture, emphasizing its detrimental effects on children. Faust links the rise of hookup culture to increased childlessness and the resultant psychological impacts on society.

Katie Faust [86:40]: "Kids lose. Anytime sex is happening outside of long term, committed, heterosexual, permanent unions, kids will always pay the price for that."

Dr. Peterson elaborates on the personality traits associated with individuals who favor short-term mating strategies, labeling them as manipulative and predatory, thereby posing risks to children's well-being.

Katie Faust [82:45]: "The men who prefer no investment sex are Machiavellian... psychopathic... narcissistic... sadistic."

Strategies for Mitigating Negative Impacts

Faust outlines practical strategies aimed at fostering healthy relationships and family structures. She advocates for early marriage and responsible dating practices to ensure that children grow up in stable environments.

Katie Faust [81:45]: "Your job is friendship... encourage healthy dating... model great friendships."

Dr. Peterson underscores the importance of women in civilizing men and setting boundaries, thereby enhancing societal stability and protecting children's interests.

Jordan Peterson [89:30]: "Sexual desire itself is a short term gratification seeking mechanism... not serving anyone's medium to long term interests."

Policy Recommendations and Organizational Goals

Faust discusses her organization's dual approach of changing both hearts and laws to protect children's rights. She emphasizes the need for policy interventions that prioritize children's well-being over adult desires.

Katie Faust [63:37]: "We want to change hearts and we want to change laws. It has to be both."

She also highlights the methodological shortcomings of existing studies on same-sex parenting, arguing for more robust research to accurately assess the impacts on children.

Katie Faust [52:19]: "Most of them had very serious methodological problems... not randomly derived... very small sample sizes."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Faust's vision for a global movement to protect children's rights, advocating for long-term, committed, heterosexual, monogamous marriages as the cornerstone for societal prosperity. Dr. Peterson reinforces the alignment between prioritizing children's rights and the broader cultural and societal benefits, framing it as a pivotal element in the ongoing culture war.

Jordan Peterson [91:26]: "Whatever you send, the signals you send, the environments you put your kid in, it can lead them to the place where they are not involuntarily single when they're 30."

The episode underscores the profound impact of family structures and hookup culture on children's development and societal health, advocating for policies and personal responsibilities that prioritize and protect the natural rights of children.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

Katie Faust [00:31]: "Children have a right to their mother and father."
Jordan Peterson [07:02]: "The interests of children and adults truly align, but they align over the long run."
Katie Faust [23:36]: "Surrogacy... forces children to sacrifice something so adults can have what they want."
Katie Faust [86:40]: "Kids lose. Anytime sex is happening outside of long term, committed, heterosexual, permanent unions, kids will always pay the price for that."
Katie Faust [52:19]: "Most of them had very serious methodological problems... not randomly derived... very small sample sizes."
Jordan Peterson [91:26]: "Whatever you send, the signals you send, the environments you put your kid in..."

Final Thoughts

Episode 527 of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast provides a critical examination of hookup culture and its ramifications on children and society. Through an incisive dialogue with Katie Faust, the episode highlights the necessity of prioritizing children's rights and fostering stable family environments to ensure societal well-being and prosperity.