Podcast Summary: The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast Episode: Reality and the Philosophical Framing of the Truth | Dr. Stephen Hicks
Release Date: November 25, 2024

Introduction

In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson engages in a profound dialogue with Dr. Stephen Hicks, a distinguished philosopher and educator associated with Peterson Academy. The conversation delves into the significance of philosophical education, the evolution of philosophical thought from modernism to postmodernism, and the intricate relationship between perception, epistemology, and power.

Philosophical Education and Peterson Academy

Dr. Stephen Hicks discusses his contributions to Peterson Academy, highlighting his role in teaching five courses focused on modern and postmodern philosophy. He emphasizes the academy's mission to make philosophy accessible to a broader audience with enhanced production values that surpass traditional in-person classrooms.

"[...] what we want is to be much more careful. But what happens in politics, economics, business, family, religion is because of philosophical ideas."
— Dr. Stephen Hicks [02:06]

Peterson underscores the necessity of philosophical education, arguing that it helps individuals understand the origins and implications of their beliefs and values.

"It's necessary, in my estimation, very necessary, regardless of who you are, to understand the nuances of the thinkers that you describe."
— Jordan Peterson [10:14]

Modernism vs. Postmodernism in Philosophy

The discussion transitions to the shift from modernism to postmodernism over the past five centuries. Dr. Hicks outlines the trajectory of philosophical thought, starting with foundational modern philosophers like Descartes, Locke, and Nietzsche, moving into the skeptical and relativistic realms of postmodern thinkers such as Foucault and Derrida.

"The postmodern thinkers started to react against, in a very sophisticated way, much of what had happened intellectually in the modern era."
— Dr. Stephen Hicks [09:00]

Peterson posits that we are on the brink of a philosophical and theological revolution, partially driven by postmodern critiques of Enlightenment thinking.

"I think that we are on the cusp of a philosophical and maybe a theological revolution."
— Jordan Peterson [13:45]

Perception, Epistemology, and the Nature of Reality

A central theme of the conversation is the nature of perception and its role in shaping our understanding of reality. Peterson introduces a practical demonstration involving a sudden noise to illustrate how perception operates at multiple levels, from reflexive responses to conscious interpretation.

"But you can train dogs to wag their tail when they receive an electric shock."
— Jordan Peterson [39:22]

Dr. Hicks expands on this by defending empiricism, arguing that despite its early shortcomings, empiricism remains a vital ongoing scientific project. He emphasizes the need for an epistemological framework that integrates neuroscience and psychology to better understand consciousness as a relational phenomenon.

"We have to do epistemology in context with metaphysics."
— Dr. Stephen Hicks [26:49]

The Role of Narratives and Power in Postmodern Thought

The discourse delves into postmodern assertions that narratives shape our perception of reality and that power dynamics underpin these narratives. Peterson challenges the postmodern view by arguing that not all narratives are power-driven and that many are constrained by empirical realities and evolutionary pressures.

"Just because we see the world through a story doesn't mean that the stories themselves aren't constrained by empirical reality."
— Jordan Peterson [60:25]

Dr. Hicks concurs that postmodernism often misconstrues virtues like power as vices, advocating instead for a conception of power that serves positive, productive ends rather than coercive social control.

"Postmodern use of the word power is another example of turning a virtue into a vice."
— Dr. Stephen Hicks [91:34]

Online Education and the Future of Philosophical Inquiry

Towards the end of the episode, Dr. Hicks outlines his upcoming courses at Peterson Academy, which cover modern ethics and the philosophy of politics. He explains how these courses aim to provide comprehensive overviews of major philosophical thinkers and their impact on contemporary societal structures.

"All five of them, they're going to get a pretty decent overview of the major thinkers of the last 500 years in the philosophical, ethical and political realms."
— Jordan Peterson [103:54]

Peterson expresses enthusiasm for the collaboration and the potential of highly produced online education to enhance philosophical understanding and discourse.

"I'm very much looking forward to that."
— Jordan Peterson [105:13]

Conclusion and Future Discussions

The episode concludes with plans for continued discussions on the Daily Wire platform, focusing on the future of online education and the nuanced understanding of power from both modern and postmodern perspectives. Peterson hints at exploring how power can be harnessed in service of higher goals, advocating for a balanced view that recognizes the constructive potential of power when aligned with ethical and rational frameworks.

"So you can join us for another half an hour of that discussion, if you would."
— Jordan Peterson [105:48]

Notable Quotes

1. Dr. Stephen Hicks [02:06]:
   "What we want is to be much more careful. But what happens in politics, economics, business, family, religion is because of philosophical ideas."

2. Jordan Peterson [10:14]:
   "It's necessary, in my estimation, very necessary, regardless of who you are, to understand the nuances of the thinkers that you describe."

3. Dr. Stephen Hicks [09:00]:
   "The postmodern thinkers started to react against, in a very sophisticated way, much of what had happened intellectually in the modern era."

4. Dr. Stephen Hicks [26:49]:
   "We have to do epistemology in context with metaphysics."

5. Jordan Peterson [60:25]:
   "Just because we see the world through a story doesn't mean that the stories themselves aren't constrained by empirical reality."

6. Dr. Stephen Hicks [91:34]:
   "Postmodern use of the word power is another example of turning a virtue into a vice."

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the interplay between philosophical traditions, cognitive science, and societal structures. Listeners gain deep insights into how philosophical frameworks shape our understanding of reality and the importance of integrating empirical knowledge with philosophical inquiry to navigate the complexities of modern and postmodern thought.