Pro-Life Progress Under Trump (Ft. Lila Rose)

Summary

The Josh Hammer Show

Episode: Pro-Life Progress Under Trump (ft. Lila Rose)

Date: May 22, 2026
Host: Josh Hammer
Guest: Lila Rose, Founder & President of Live Action

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Overview

In this episode, Josh Hammer spotlights the ongoing fight for the right to life in America as the country approaches its 250th anniversary. Hammer is joined by Lila Rose, a leading pro-life advocate, for an in-depth discussion on the state of the pro-life movement post-Dobbs, legislative realities, abortion pill proliferation, the imperative of defunding Planned Parenthood, and family policy. The conversation also addresses the current political tactics within the movement and the troubling rise of anti-Semitism, including a Catholic perspective on unity and moral advocacy.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The American Foundation & Right to Life (00:06–05:00)

• Josh Hammer opens with reflections on the upcoming July 4th, 2026, marking 250 years since the Declaration of Independence, emphasizing its foundational principles: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness—with "life" as the core right.
  • “Crucially... life always comes first. The right to life is the most foundational... the most basic, and simultaneously also the most important and... profound of all of the rights.” (01:32, Josh Hammer)
• Draws historical parallels between the fight against abortion and the abolition of slavery, comparing Roe v. Wade (1973) with Dred Scott v. Sandford as judicial errors.
  • “The fight for unborn children in the 21st century... is directly analogous to the fight against chattel slavery in America in the 19th century.” (05:20, Josh Hammer)

2. Unpacking Abortion: Political Rhetoric vs. Reality (06:22–10:16)

• Airs a Congressional hearing featuring Rep. Brendan Gill cross-examining an abortion advocate, directly confronting the physical realities and euphemisms surrounding abortion methods.
  • Gill details methods like suction abortion and dilation/curettage, met with evasions from the advocate.
    • “That sounds kind of gross, doesn’t it? Sounds pretty gruesome, do you agree? It does to me.” (07:21, Rep. Gill)
• Hammer and co-host highlight how euphemisms like “choice” or “bodily autonomy” obscure the brutality of abortion.
  • “A euphemism... is a more innocent or anodyne-sounding term that you use when you don’t want to actually talk about the details of what is happening. The left does this quite often.” (09:30, Josh Hammer)
  • Accuses the pro-choice side of ignoring the bodily autonomy of the unborn:
    “The grand irony... is that what you’re actually doing is you are severing the entire bodily autonomy... of the unborn being gestating there.” (10:10, Josh Hammer)

3. State of the Pro-Life Movement Post-Dobbs (12:00–17:15)

• Lila Rose outlines the central mission:
  • The necessity of restoring protection for the unborn, reminding that abortion is the leading cause of death in America, outpacing heart disease and cancer.
    • “Over 1.1 million little boys and girls were killed via abortion legally in the United States. It is a leading cause of death, beating out heart disease, cancer, certainly automobile accidents, guns... any other cause of death.” (14:20, Lila Rose)
  • Highlights pro-life support for mothers/families:
    “We don’t just want the baby to be born, we want the baby to thrive and the family to thrive.” (15:10, Lila Rose)
• Discusses the aftermath of Dobbs v. Jackson:

  • The decision returned abortion policy to the political branches but did not guarantee unborn rights under homicide laws.

  • Stresses the pro-life view that the 14th Amendment should already protect unborn children nationwide.

    “The challenge... is it didn’t go far enough to make it crystal clear that a baby in the womb has status under the law to be protected under homicide laws.” (17:17, Lila Rose)

  • Notes mixed state-level results: Some states ban abortion, others enshrine it; abortion pills proliferate as a workaround.

4. The Rise of the Abortion Pill & Call for Federal Action (17:15–22:48)

• The abortion pill now accounts for the majority of cases; easy mail access increases harm to women and children.
  • “Abortion pills... are the number one cause of abortion today... You can get it via mail... It kills babies... and it’s putting one out of every 22 women in the emergency room.” (19:25, Lila Rose)
  • Relays call for FDA action: “The Trump administration should be pulling that drug. That’s what we’re calling for.” (20:33)
• Urges the audience to pressure current and upcoming administrations to act:
  “There is a lot more that we can be doing at a federal level, at a state level, across all the branches of government...” (11:02, Josh Hammer)

5. Defunding Planned Parenthood: Successes and Ongoing Battles (22:48–25:23)

• Planned Parenthood receives nearly $800 million/year in taxpayer money despite declining non-abortion services and increasing abortions.
  • “They have increased abortions, lower cancer screenings, lower Pap tests, lower support, quite frankly, for families. The model is abortion.” (22:58, Lila Rose)
• Notes a significant but temporary federal defund measure—set to expire on July 4, 2026—which removed Medicaid dollars from abortion providers.
  • “That was one year defund that expires this year on July 4... Live Action’s big priority right now is to work with Congress... to ensure that in the next budget, that money continues to be cut.” (24:00, Lila Rose)
• Stresses the life-and-death stakes for millions.

6. Political Tactics: Principle vs. Prudence (25:23–30:57)

• Discussion of how the movement balances moral idealism with political reality.
• Lila Rose argues against excessive compromise:
  • “The left does not compromise on abortion... Our problem is imagining that a negotiation table even exists. It doesn’t.” (27:30, Lila Rose)
  • Cites success stories (DeSantis in Florida, Abbott in Texas) as examples of bold pro-life leadership succeeding electorally.
  • “You shouldn’t compromise with children’s lives.” (28:40, Lila Rose)

7. Pro-Family Policy and Supporting Mothers (30:57–34:25)

• Advocates for child tax credits, family subsidies, support for pregnancy resource centers, and policies that make it practically and economically easier to raise families.
  • “Make families thrive. Child tax credits, I would say child subsidies. If you have a child, you should get cash from the government for that.” (31:11, Lila Rose)
• Distinguishes between worthwhile family support and less effective interventions like universal daycare:
  • “We need to incentivize mothers and give them more practical resources to be able to feel more flexible economically, like they have more opportunity to stay home with their children.” (33:20, Lila Rose)

8. Addressing Anti-Semitism and Religious Division (35:04–41:54)

• Hammer raises concern over a rise in antisemitism and anti-Americanism, including provocateurs using Catholicism as a shield.
  • “There is an information operation... to try to tear apart Christians and Jews and this... biblical alliance that is the absolute foundation of the conservative movement...” (35:21, Josh Hammer)
• Lila Rose, as a Catholic, rebuts any such justification:
  • “If there’s going to be influencers... using [Catholicism] to spew vitriol against our Jewish brothers and sisters... that is anathema to the Catholic faith.” (36:46, Lila Rose)
  • “It’s deeply tragic... I do think we need to speak out because it is sometimes easier, more convenient... to just be quiet, but I’ve chosen to speak out on this. I will continue to speak out.” (38:04, Lila Rose)
• Discusses Church teachings on anti-Semitism and the necessity of solidarity across Christian and Jewish communities.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Declaration’s hierarchy of rights:
  “Life always comes first. The right to life is the most foundational... the most basic, and simultaneously also the most important and... profound of all of the rights.” (01:32, Josh Hammer)

• Parallels to slavery debate:
  “The fight for unborn children in the 21st century... is directly analogous to the fight against chattel slavery in America in the 19th century.” (05:20, Josh Hammer)

• On abortion as leading cause of death:
  “Over 1.1 million little boys and girls were killed via abortion legally in the United States. It is a leading cause of death...” (14:20, Lila Rose)

• On the state-level pro-life fight and legal patchwork:
  “We are waiting for the Supreme Court... to affirmatively, explicitly state [that unborn lives are protected]... states like California are hell bent on permitting abortion through all nine months. And that’s evil.” (17:22, Lila Rose)

• Abortion pill epidemic:
  “The Trump administration should be pulling that drug. That’s what we’re calling for.” (20:33, Lila Rose)

• On Planned Parenthood funding:
  “They’re crouching up towards a billion dollars of our money and we’re paying for this complete savagery.” (23:44, Lila Rose)

• On (not) compromising:
  “The left does not compromise on abortion... Our problem is imagining that a negotiation table even exists. It doesn’t.” (27:30, Lila Rose)

• Pro-family policy suggestions:
  “If you have a child, you should get cash from the government for that. That’s my view.” (31:13, Lila Rose)

• Against antisemitism:
  “If there’s going to be influencers... using it to spew vitriol against our Jewish brothers and sisters, or to spew vitriol... it’s been disgusting to see the rise in anti Semitism... That is anathema to the Catholic faith.” (36:46, Lila Rose)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:06 – 05:39: Foundational values, historical frame
• 06:22 – 10:16: Congressional abortion exchange & language critique
• 12:00 – 15:54: Lila Rose on the right to life and abortion rates/statistics
• 17:15 – 21:34: Post-Dobbs legal landscape & abortion pill
• 22:48 – 25:23: Planned Parenthood funding
• 27:24 – 30:57: Principle vs. prudence in pro-life politics
• 31:07 – 34:25: Building a pro-family policy platform
• 35:04 – 41:54: Antisemitism, interfaith solidarity, and Catholic perspective

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Tone and Language

• Passionate, direct, and unapologetically pro-life; adversarial toward “pro-abortion” and “woke Left.”
• Lila Rose is forthright and policy-oriented; Hammer provides historical, legal, and philosophical underpinnings.

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Conclusion

As America nears its 250th birthday, Hammer and Rose contend that defending innocent life is the nation’s most crucial unfinished business. They urge listeners to prioritize pro-life advocacy at every level—legislative, cultural, and personal—while challenging the movement to reject political compromise in favor of clear moral leadership, robust pro-family support, and vigilance against rising division and bigotry.

Transcript

[Abortion Advocate]

Foreign.

[Josh Hammer]

I'm Josh Hammer and this is Josh Hammer Show. We are approaching the 250th anniversary of America's founding. This July 4, 2026, will be the quarter millennium mark for the greatest country in the history of mankind. But what specifically will we be celebrating this this July 4th, the 250th anniversary of the ratification of the Constitution would not actually be this year. That would happen in roughly 13 years from now. We are celebrating this July 4th, the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, which is a document that Abraham Lincoln famously described as the apple of goals, for which the Constitution itself is merely the surrounding frame of silver. The decoration is a document that is a little longer than you might think of it.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

As if you actually Go ahead and read the full text, which I encourage you to actually do every July 4th.

[Josh Hammer]

If you do it, you will see that the bulk of the text is actually a list of grievances against King

[Co-host or Interviewer]

George III against the British Crown.

[Josh Hammer]

But the first half of the decoration, the meat and potatoes, if you will, the real crux of it is some of the most immortal words ever penned by mankind. The proclamation in the severing of ties

[Co-host or Interviewer]

between the American colonies and the British

[Josh Hammer]

Crown, the proclamation that all men are created equal. We hold these truths to be self evident. It's obvious, it's self evident that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights. Among those rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Crucially, I would add in my own editorialization, in that order, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Life always comes first. The right to life is the most foundational. It is the most centric, the most core, the most basic and simultaneously also the most important and indeed the most profound of all of the rights in all of human rights for a very long time following the what I'd argue is probably the second worst decision in

[Co-host or Interviewer]

the history of the U.S. supreme Court. The first would probably be the Dred

[Josh Hammer]

Scott case, which precipitated the Civil War.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

The second worst decision of all time

[Josh Hammer]

was Roe versus Wade. That was 1973. And that was when a court majority led by Justice Harry Blackmun infamously held that the 14th Amendment, due to an oxymoronic doctrine known as so called substantive due process, which is not really a thing. But the Court held nonetheless that there is a constitutional right to a mother to snuff out her own child in the Womb. It took 49 years, 49 years for the two dissenters in that case, the two of the nine who dissented to be posthumously vindicated. That happened in 2022, just a few years ago in the Doms opinion written by Justice Sam Alito.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And then of course, the draft opinion

[Josh Hammer]

was leaked and we still don't know the leaker. We discussed that about a month ago or so with Molly Hemingway. We'll get into the details perhaps another day. The point is, now we are living in a brave new world, folks, where we have the ability to actually debate these issues. How, how to protect innocent unborn human life. A conversation that we couldn't have because our judicial supremacists told us so for the better part of half a century. But how is it actually going? Well, we're going to bring on later

[Co-host or Interviewer]

in the show for a lengthy and wide ranging conversation, we're going to bring

[Josh Hammer]

on Lila Rose, who was the founder and president of Live Action, one of the greatest, most courageous, most visible, most public facing and all around most awesome pro life advocates in the country. I think really highly of Lila and we're going to go ahead and check in with her. When it comes to the state of the pro life movement, just a few years after the Dobbs case put this issue squarely back into the hearts, minds and the ballot boxes of the American people, there are other issues when it comes to the right to life as well. There is the ever thorny question of how one can actually take his or her political principles and then translate it into reality. This is where the virtue of prudence comes into play. Aristotle referred to prudence as the queen of the virtues. For Abraham Lincoln, prudence was perhaps the statesman's singular defining trait. By prudence we mean judgment and how to discern a situation, to know how far to push and simultaneously how far not to push, how quickly to push and how quickly not to push. You see the fight for unborn children in the 21st century, as I've been arguing my entire adult lifetime, ever since I was battling with all the pro abortion students back in law school. The fight is directly analogous to the fight against chattel slavery in America in the 19th century. In the same way that the Roe vs. Wade opinion in 1973 said that the rights to kill an unborn child is due to substantive due process, so too did Justice Roger Taney in the Dred Scott case say that the quote unquote, right to own a slave was a quote unquote substantive due process.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right.

[Josh Hammer]

The same way that the antebellum slavers, as expressed in that same Dred Scott case, The same way that they said that you have a right to, to control another human being. So too do today's pro abortionists.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

If you have the right to control

[Josh Hammer]

and ultimately to murder, to snuff out a fellow human being. And every so often, I think it is really important to remind everyone that that actually is what an abortion is. It is the snuffing out of innocent human life. There was a wonderful exchange that happened on Capitol Hill just about a month ago or so. Brendan Gill, the fre congressman from Texas,

[Co-host or Interviewer]

former guest here on the Josh Hammer

[Josh Hammer]

show, had quite an exchange with an abortion advocate, really just getting the details of what an abortion actually consists of in the year 2026.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Let's go ahead and actually play some

[Josh Hammer]

of that exchange from about a month ago on Capitol Hill.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

You're an advocate for abortion, for abortion policy. What's your favorite type of abortion?

[Abortion Advocate]

I am an advocate for patients having access to the full realm of reproductive health care.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

But do you have a preferred method of abortion that you, that you like?

[Abortion Advocate]

I do not.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

Let me read through a couple different methods and I want to get your take on, on how much you like these. The first type is called a suction abortion. This is when the cervix is dilated and a strong suction, 29 times the power of a household vacuum cleaner, tears the baby's body apart and sucks it through the hose into a container. Do you prefer that method?

[Abortion Advocate]

I stand by my former testimony.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

That sounds kind of gross, doesn't it? Sounds pretty gruesome, do you agree? It does to me.

[Abortion Advocate]

I stand by how I answered your question fully and accurately.

[Josh Hammer]

This exchange, actually, if anything, got even

[Co-host or Interviewer]

more awkward from there. He was more of that same exchange between Brandon Gill and this noted abortion advocate on Capitol Hill about one month ago.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

Okay, what about this one? This one is called dilation and curettage. After dilation of the cervix, a sharp looped knife is inserted into the uterus. The baby's body is cut into pieces and extracted, often by suction. Do you prefer that method?

[Abortion Advocate]

What I believe we are here to talk about today is the Face Act. We are not here to talk about.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

I'm asking you, you're a pro abortion advocate. I'm asking if you prefer the delation and curettage method.

[Abortion Advocate]

I am a access to reproductive health care advocate.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

You don't, you don't want to talk about abortion itself. Why is that?

[Abortion Advocate]

I would prefer to talk about the reason that the committee called the hearing.

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

Is it because it's uncomfortable to talk about. I would prefer it should be uncomfortable.

[Abortion Advocate]

I would prefer, if you would let me finish my statement, to talk about the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances

[Congressman Brendan Gill]

act, which is we're talking about what that access gets.

[Josh Hammer]

How about, okay, so this is, in short, what we ought to do. Sometimes I think often about the Kermit Gosnell saga. Kermit Gosnell, who actually died just a few months ago. Kermit Gosnell was the late term abortionist. The infamous late term abortionist was ultimately prosecuted for homicide. The stories out of his house of horrors in Philadelphia are infamous. There was a wonderful documentary film that

[Co-host or Interviewer]

came out called Gosnell that I strongly encourage you to go ahead and watch. He was murdering babies by snipping their spines. All the same things that you heard Congressman Gill just discuss there.

[Josh Hammer]

Truly, truly, truly macabre, gruesome, just utterly

[Co-host or Interviewer]

barbaric, anti civilizational stuff.

[Josh Hammer]

And around the time of the Gosnell

[Co-host or Interviewer]

trial, I remember reading a column by Rich Lowry, the longtime editor of National Review, where he referred to abortion as the left's euphemism imperative.

[Josh Hammer]

A euphemism is a different term, oftentimes

[Co-host or Interviewer]

a more innocent or anodyne sounding term

[Josh Hammer]

that you use when you don't want to actually talk about the details of what is happening. The left does this quite often. The left refers to chemical castration, gentle mutilation and cutting off healthy body parts, healthy sexual organs. They refer to it as gender affirming care. And in the case of abortion, they refer to it oftentimes as choice or bodily autonomy or some other euphemism. Indeed, when they, when they use the

[Co-host or Interviewer]

latter, when they use bodily autonomy, the

[Josh Hammer]

grand irony of that is that what

[Co-host or Interviewer]

you're actually doing is you are severing the entire bodily autonomy. Indeed, you are actually severing outright the

[Josh Hammer]

body of the unborn being gestating there in the mother's womb.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Listen, we cover a lot of issues here on the Josh Hammer Show.

[Josh Hammer]

We are a daily program and we

[Co-host or Interviewer]

are dedicated to bringing you the news

[Josh Hammer]

and all the relevant opinions and analysis from a principled, hard hitting, impassioned, conservative, biblically informed perspective. The news cycle does not necessarily always focus on the right to life issue. On the abortion issue, I think that this lead up to July 4, 2026

[Co-host or Interviewer]

is a very, very important time to

[Josh Hammer]

focus on that issue. The Trump administration has been the most pro life administration in modern American history, but they are not perfect.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

For instance, there is the proliferation of the abortion pill. I'm sure that Lila Rose and I

[Josh Hammer]

will get into that there is a lot more that we can be doing at a federal level, at a state

[Co-host or Interviewer]

level, across all the branches of government,

[Josh Hammer]

ultimately, ultimately trying to get us to that point where much like the 19th century anti slavery abolitionists, so too God willing, can we, the 21st century abortion

[Co-host or Interviewer]

abolitionists, get to a true abortion free society.

[Josh Hammer]

But in order to get there, we need to take stock of how we've been doing, where we're at and where

[Co-host or Interviewer]

we must go from here, talking about principle, prudence, all the relevant things.

[Josh Hammer]

So there's really no better guest to join us than today's guest.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So Lila Rose Post gonna join us after a quick commercial break. She is the founder and president of Live Action, one of the most important pro life voices in America. And Lila Rose joins me after a quick commercial break. Folks, stay with us. You're not going to miss this conversation with Lila Rose.

[Josh Hammer]

Welcome back.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So it's real treat today, folks. We are bringing on to join you for the rest of today's show.

[Josh Hammer]

Lila Rose, Lila Rose.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You probably know her by name, you probably know her by face, perhaps even by voice. She is the founder and the president of Live Action, one of the most important voices in America, voices and advocates on behalf of unborn children. She is doing heroic work and has been doing so for some years now. I believe this is your first time appearance here on the show. Lila, we're really grateful to have you. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Lila Rose]

Thanks for having me. Josh, great to see you.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Great to see you as well, my friend. So we opened this conversation today, kind of just setting the scene. We're getting quite close to the 250th anniversary of this nation's founding and specifically this July 4th. We're celebrating, of course, the Declaration of Independence, which famously doesn't begin but includes that most famous of lines, one of the most famous lines probably ever written by man to man, this notion that we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. And of course the right to life is the first and foremost of all of them. And I think, Lila, sometimes it's important to recenter upon that very theme because we cover all the issues on this show and sometimes the abortion issue, sometimes the right to life suite of issues in general are not necessarily front and center of the daily news cycle. There's a lot going on in the world, obviously for understandable reasons. But can you just talk about the importance of whatever actually is really happening out there on any of the other issues that I'm not saying don't matter. They obviously do matter. But sometimes it's really important to remember what really is the absolute bread and butter. What is the foundation of all that we are here to do. Could you just talk a little bit about that?

[Lila Rose]

It's a great question. And the whole reason we do politics, the whole reason we care about culture is because human life is valuable, it's precious. We want to build a society where human life can thrive, where we can work with justice with one another. And the vulnerable are always a question, people who are more vulnerable, how do we treat them? How do we ensure that they're not treated unjustly? And like you said, our country was founded on the right to life, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. But life is first. And what does that mean to have the right to life? It's the right to not be killed, to be murdered by somebody and have your life protected by the, the forces that be by the government. Unfortunately, today, most tragically today, the leading cause of death, Josh, in America and globally is the slaughter, the intentional killing of unborn babies via abortion. In the United States in the last reported year, over 1 million, almost 1.1 million children, little boys and girls anywhere between six weeks old, unborn up until birth, some of them were later term abortions. Over 1.1 million little boys and girls were killed via abortion legally in the United States. It is a leading cause of death, beating out heart disease, cancer, certainly automobile accidents, guns, you know, school shootings, any other act of violence or any other cause of death was beat out by abortion, which is legal in this country and in many states, funded by the government. So if we're going to protect the right to life, it has to be for all humans, not just some. And the most vulnerable humans, the unborn, who have no way to protect themselves and deserve our protection. This also means supporting mothers and fathers. We're big advocates of making sure that families can thrive in this country, providing more resources to mothers and fathers. That part of that effort is the thousands of pregnancy resource centers that are part of our pro life movement to provide free confidential care to moms and young families. That's a core plank of the pro life movement. We don't just want the baby to be born, we want the baby to thrive and the family to thrive. But we need to give that baby freedom from lethal violence. So that's the mission, the anchor of the pro life movement. And it's the greatest human rights issue in our world today. It is the greatest human rights issue in our world, abortion, because it's the intentional killing of innocent human lives and we can stop it. So that's part of Live Action's mission, is to abolish abortion and then also to build a culture of life where every child and family can thrive.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You can follow Lila Rose on x@Lila Gracerose. Live action can also be followed at LiveAction. So, Lila, as you know, I'm a lawyer and I follow the courts quite closely. And I think I actually spoke at one of your organization's conferences a few years ago, right. In the aftermath of the Dobbs case, which famously overturned Roe v. Wade After 49 brutal and bloody years. The majority opinion in Dobbs, written by Justice Sam Alito, one of the great jurists of our time, essentially says that there is no constitutional rights to abortion and that is left to the legislatures, as you and I both know, in theory, that definitely includes, includes Congress, because he didn't specify that it's just state legislatures. He essentially just said, this is for the political branches as a whole at both the federal and the state level, in not so many words. So it's been a few years now. It's been four years. I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps I'm wrong. You can correct me. I don't think Congress has actually passed a single piece of pro life legislation. Easier said than done, of course, given the realities of the Senate filibuster

[Josh Hammer]

and

[Co-host or Interviewer]

the caprices and whims of the Senate parliamentarian when it comes to the reconciliation bill. And there's this and there's that. There's. But, but there is a lot happening, certainly at minimum, at the state level. So kind of zooming out here a little bit. We're a few years in now in this Dobbs Post Roe vs. Wade regime. How are things going from a pro life perspective overall at this time?

[Lila Rose]

Yeah, so a few things. First of all, like you just stated with Dobbs v. Jackson, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, in the majority decision, it was found that there is no constitutional right to abortion to kill a baby. That was completely, completely invented. That was a, that was a fiction. The challenge with that Supreme Court ruling is it didn't go far enough to make it crystal clear that a baby in the womb has status under the law to be protected under homicide laws. And so what we're dealing with right now is Democratic majorities who are deciding, oh, I think abortion's okay. You know, it doesn't affect me. I'm not the baby being aborted. So I'm gonna go vote for other people. If they choose to have an abortion, they have the power to go and have that abortion. And that is not justice. So right now, under our 14th amendment to our Constitution, there is a part of our Constitution, it says that you do not have the right to deprive any person of life without due process of the law, which would be the state's mandates. They can't do that. And you have to give everyone equal protection of the law. That includes all persons. That doesn't just include a certain class of humans, it's all, all humans. And that should include, of course, unborn humans. And so the pro life movement is arguing right now and working on, on a, on a, certainly a federal level and certainly on a state level that the 14th Amendment already abolishes abortion and should already protect little babies, whether they're in California or they're in Texas. Because right now you have some pro life states that are, have anti abortion laws and then states like California that say you can kill a baby up until birth, it's no problem. And that is unjust. And so that's the first point here, is that all of these battles matter, but already abortion should be illegal. And we are waiting for the Supreme Court. I hope we'll see in my lifetime soon the Supreme Court affirmatively, explicitly state this. Not that they even have to, I think, but it should be stated because unfortunately states like California are hell bent on permitting abortion through all nine months. And that's evil. It should not be up for a democratic vote to decide whether or not babies live or die. Democracies don't get to do mob rule and decide this group of people, we don't like them. So without due process, no trial by jury, nothing, we're going to just vote for them to be killed. That's not the, that is not the role of a democratic republic. That is not the role of a democracy to do that. That's mob rule. It's the role of a democratic republic to ensure that for certain human rights are protected. That constitution, the Constitution of that country is, is, is enforced. And that's not happening right now. So that's the first point. The second point is, okay, what's happened since Dobbs, We've seen over a dozen states go into effect pro life laws that ban abortion, that states like Texas or. We saw the abortion rate drop, Josh, praise God. And we saw 40,000 more lives birth, live births in the six months after Roe v. Wade was overturned. So lives were saved. But then we saw backlash from Some states who went and tried to enshrine abortion in their constitution, some of them successfully, like here in California, that was a huge and bitter loss for the pro life movement. We also saw under Biden the removal of the COVID regs or during COVID the removal of the regs that required an in person doctor's visit in order to get an abortion pill. And, and that just flooded the market with abortion pills, which are the number one cause of abortion today are by pill. So you can get it via mail. You press a button, you do an appointment online, you get it to your door. Right now, what's happening federally and state, I'm going to run through it quickly. At the federal level, we are still allowing abortion pills to be sent via mail. That is unethical, certainly, certainly unjust. It should be stopped and the FDA can stop it. So Live Action is calling on, you know, RFK and the Maha, you know, make America Healthy Again, to pull this lethal drug from the market. It kills babies. It's a leading cause of abortion and it's putting one out of every 22 women in the emergency room who take it and giving one out of every 10 women who take it adverse side effects. I actually met with rfk, with our secretary of HHS just a few months ago when I was in D.C. and we discussed this. And he acknowledged, he said, yeah, if a drug is causing that many adverse side effects for the mother, for the woman, because it's killing the baby, that's, that's already, it should be banned because of that. But he's saying for the, if you pretend abortion's okay for a minute and you're saying a drug is killing one or not killing, it's, it's harming one out of every 10 patients, that alone can get the drug pulled from the market. So on a number of fronts, the Trump administration should be pulling that drug. That's what we're calling for. Another key priority right now in the pro life movement and focus is the defund of Planned Parenthood you mentioned.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, let's just hold that. Yeah, let's hold, let's hold that just one second here because coming against a quick commercial break. So folks, joining us, say, is Lila Rose. She's the founding president of Live Action. She does heroic work on the pro life issue and she'll be joining us

[Josh Hammer]

to discuss defunding Planned Parenthood, the abortion

[Co-host or Interviewer]

pill and much more after a short commercial break. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back with Lila Rose of Live Action. Welcome back. And Lila Rose, Rejoined us. Lila, of course, is the founder president of Live Action. You follow her on X. Yelagracerose Live Action is also on X at Live Action. Lyle, before the break, I cut you off. You're talking about not just the abortion pill, which is an extraordinarily important topic. And I really cannot emphasize that enough because this is the overwhelming majority. I don't think it's plowing. It's the majority of abortions in America today are done via the abortion bills. This is a crucial, crucial priority. If you are a concerned pro life listener view of this program there I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to get involved as Lyle's encouraging you to get involved when it comes to making your voice heard to Secretary Kennedy and others about the abortion pill. But I cut you off, Lyle. You're talking not just about the abortion bill, but also about the imperative of defunding Planned Parenthood in its entirety. So talk a little bit about that. What has the administration done thus far on the planned parent issue and how much further does it have to go?

[Lila Rose]

Yes, great question, Josh. And again, I so appreciate you covering this because there's some details that most people aren't aware of, but they matter so much because there's truly millions of lives on the line. So Planned Parenthood is the biggest abortion chain in this country. They commit over 400,000 abortions. Their numbers keep going up, by the way, every single year and, and other health services that they claim to offer keep plummeting. So they have increased abortions, lower cancer screenings, lower Pap tests, lower support, quite frankly, for families. And they're focusing now more. The model is abortion. They kill babies up to 24 weeks old. I mean, here, not far from where I'm doing this, this hit right now, they're killing babies up to 24 weeks old, fully pain capable, almost newborns. And they're murdering them. I mean, it's devastating to even imagine. And then they're the biggest political proponent of abortion. They're lockstep with the Democrat Party, unfortunately, on this. They promote abortion through months, tax funded. This is who is getting, who got in the Last reported year, 800, nearly $800 million in taxpayer funds. I mean, it's insane. They're crouching up towards a billion dollars of our money and we're paying for this complete savagery. So last year on July 4th, Congress, and this was a huge thing the federal government did this Congress passed a law, part of the budget reconciliation process. Excuse me, it's not, it's technically not a law, but it's the budget process. And it included a measure that ensured that abortion providers like Planned Parenthood didn't get Medicaid dollars. Huge hundreds of millions of dollars on the line. The money can still go to poor families, struggling families, but not through abortionists, which is what Planned Parenthood was getting that money for. They're very good at getting money. That's what they love to do. They love to make money and profit off of death. So that was one year defund that expires this year on July 4th, the 250th anniversary of our nation's independence. And so live action's big priority right now is to work with Congress. Speaker Mike Johnson has been phenomenal, urging everyone's hands on deck to ensure that in the next budget, that money continues to be cut. Because if that money restarts hundreds of millions of your taxpayer money, my taxpayer money is going to flow into this horrifically evil corporation. And there's lives, quite frankly, on the line. So that in the abortion pill are two important pro life objectives that the Trump administration can accomplish. That's the great news here. We just need to call for them to accomplish it, escalate the issue. Because here's the thing. When you're an unborn baby, you don't have a voice. Children in the womb have no political movement. They can't vote. They can't do anything. We have to speak for them and escalate this issue and say, this matters. These lives matter.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You know, I think for an entire generation or more of pro lifers who grew up in the very bloody aftermath of Roe vs Wade, the notion that we can actually use our voice to advocate for unborn children still strikes us as kind of a whole brave new world. It's been almost four years since the Dobbs case, but I grew up, you grew up.

[Josh Hammer]

You know, our generation grew up in

[Co-host or Interviewer]

this milieu where we were told these issues were constitutionally out of bounds, that the entire debate was forbidden. So, on the one hand, it's just amazing, I think, just to observe that we are just having this conversation in the first place, and we should be so grateful to the Supreme Court and Justice Alito and all of them for giving us this opportunity. On the other hand, as you correctly noted earlier in our conversation, Lila, the end goal is not here. And frankly, it's actually not particularly close yet, because the end goal, just as it was for the abolitionist movement in the mid 19th century slavery debate, the end goal here is, let's be very clear, is full on abortion, abolition, and that eventually can come in theory via the Supreme Court, if they so rule on equal protection grounds. It also could come, frankly, via the Congress. Congress could actually just legislate in this area under Section 5 of the 14th Amendment and say that they interpret the equal protection clause of the amendment to include equal protection against homicide codes for unborn children. So we're not there yet. We have a bit of a ways to go. And I guess that kind of gets me to a question about tactics, which is it's been a few years, babies are still dying, you and I, everyone is very passionate on this issue. We feel terrible about this there. But there's also just the very messy reality of politics. And how you weigh this trade off of principle and prudence is one of the great questions of politics going back literally to Aristotle and thousands of years. Literally all the greatest statesmen in the western canon have grappled with this question. But I'm kind of curious how you think of this, Lyella. What is your thought process when it comes to knowing your principled North Star and then kind of the tactics of getting involved in the political process and dealing with prudence, because you're very involved in both areas when it comes to principle and also prudence and political tactics?

[Lila Rose]

Yeah, I think our biggest misses not just as a pro life constituency with candidates who are supposed to be leading, but our biggest Mrs. Mrs. As a larger, let's say, conservative or pro family, pro values movement is when we prioritize, you know, prudence or compromise as somehow a winning strategy, when in reality it doesn't work like that. And what I mean by that is this. The left does not compromise on abortion. The left does not compromise on family values, meaning they are fully pro abortion, fully pro trans. You know, children, if that's the, you know, the thing. They, they do not, you know, see marriage as between a man and a woman. If that is the, the angle you're looking at, they are going to stand 100% on what their objectives are, and they're not going to negotiate, not going to come to the negotiation table with the conservator of the pro life movement. So our problem is imagining that a negotiation table even exists. It doesn't. What we need to do is this. We need to, first of all, work on changing hearts and minds. Live Action does most of our focus on that, transforming public opinion, helping shore up pro life sentiment in people. That's very, very important. We need to change culture. But when it comes to politics, we need to play hardball. And there is a strong Pro life block that thinks abortion should never be legal. It's over 10% of Americans that create this very strong hardcore base for potentially the Republican Party, if the Republican Party will take them, the Democrat Party on the other side, that block of hardcore pro boards, it's, it's, it's about the same size or less. So when you're dealing with this as a core constituency, you should play to your base and get them riled because other people are saying, yeah, I'm open to kind of going either route and they maybe care about other issues. We should be playing to the strengths. We should be playing to the truth, doing what's right and playing to the base instead of playing compromise games that never work anyways. And they're not even, in my view, not only are they not strategic, they're also unjust because you shouldn't compromise with children's lives. So I think the mistake that President Trump has made in the past, and it cost him, I think it almost cost him the election, but he, then he softened on it, was backing away from social issues, backing away from the pro life movement. I think he is his strongest President Trump and politicians are their strongest when they lead with authenticity and boldness on moral matters. Governor Ron DeSantis won reelection in the great state of Florida in a landslide. And he supported one of the most pro life bills in the country, the Heartbeat bill, that closed down and ultimately prevented tens of thousands of abortions. That kind of bold leadership is attractive and I think that's going to be the winning strategy in the future. And I hope people stop playing this game of fake compromise that never actually works in real life anyways.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Look, I mean, I live here in Florida. DeSantis won a massive nearly 20 point re election after signing his six week abortion ban. Greg Abbott won in Texas after signing a very strong heartbeat law. Brian Ken Kemp in Georgia. There's any number of other examples. The notion that abortion is inherently a losing issue for those who take it up on the pro life side I think is just a demonstrably erroneous and frankly just specious argument. Lyle, I want to ask you also a little bit also have to cat this on through the break about the family policy component. It's a very, very important part of this conversation. I've been pretty passionate about this for some years now. Is this vision of economic statecraft that is not so fundamentalist, hands off. That you are just essentially just telling new mothers, okay, here's your child and good luck with that. There, there definitely is a greater role for economic statecraft and to be clear,

[Josh Hammer]

to support that role does not make you a socialist or a communist, doesn't

[Co-host or Interviewer]

make you Zoran Mamdani or anything like that, or even Barack Obama for that matter. Talk to us a little bit more about that, just about 30 seconds. Then we'll carry it over into our final segment of the show today.

[Lila Rose]

Yeah, I think the conservative movement and the pro movement, we need pro family policy, make it easier to have a family, make families thrive. Child tax credits, I would say child subsidies. If you have a child, you should get cash from the government for that. That's my view. I think that the more we can promote subsidiarity, get it to the local level, the better to empower local organizations to deliver services and care for families. But we should stop funding programs that are anti family, anti child, obviously Planned Parenthood, and instead reinvest in the American family and back into motherhood.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I think those are extremely, extremely fair and dare I even say, persuasive guideposts for lawmakers all across the country. So, folks, Lilo will be with us for one final segment of the show. You're not going to want to go anywhere. She's the founder, president of Live Action. We're talking here about the fight for life as we approach July 4th. There is no greater or more important civilizational fight than this. And you're listening to how to do it right here on the Josh Hammerstrom. One more commercial break, folks. We'll be right back with closing thoughts. Welcome back. And Lila Rose rejoined us. Lila is the founder and president of Live Action, one of the most heroic and courageous pro life voices in America. Follow her on X ylagracerose. Lila, I kind of truncated you. I'm not sure if you had any additional thoughts there when it comes to the role of politicians and lawmakers when it comes to how to support new women here and essentially just getting rid of this mentality that okay, it's great to support mothers when they have a baby in the womb, but then you're on your own after that. Talk to us a little bit more about that.

[Lila Rose]

Yes. Well, I think the other part of that is empowering pregnancy resource centers and family community groups that are actually doing the day in, day out work to serve families. Right now they're not tax funded at all right now. They're completely non profit and they're just getting bullied, quite frankly by pro abortion politicians and by Planned Parenthood who is lying about them and trying to persuade women, actually you should come here and have an abortion. So I think removing the government entrenched support of the abortion industry will help families tremendously right there. But then, yes, I think we should have, like I was saying earlier, policies to actually help families. And I think sometimes it goes the wrong direction. Like we need to fund universal daycare. No, we need to understand that we need to keep families together. We need to incentivize mothers and give them more practical resources to be able to feel more flexible economically, like they have more opportunity to stay home with their children. So I would say there needs to be a mindset shift with our most important economic growth factor is new humans and making sure that families are strong in building new humans with strong attachment. Strong formation is in the best economic interest of the government and certainly of conservatives. So, yes, make birth free child tax credits, I would say even child subsidies, I would argue for families that are married is very important. I also think that there should be better programs for moms who have babies to be able to stay home with their kids. That gets obviously tricky, what that looks like. But I would say all the proposals funding, you know, universal daycare should instead reinvest that money back into families and then obviously better economic systems. I mean, that's one of our issues, right? It's very hard to support a family today. You need two incomes. So I think all of the project of government right now, besides shoring up our national defense, making sure we have a, you know, good rule of law, should be about fostering family growth and doing it in a way that protects freedom and protects human flourishing first and foremost.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Certainly agree with all that. And I would just add that trying to structure society to get, and frankly our economy to get us back to the baseline of the single income earning household. Easier said than done. I don't claim to have any grand panacea, as I had to flip a switch there, but I would love to see a more concerted kind of decades long, frankly, effort to try to get us back to that sort of paradigm there. And I think that would be right in line with a lot of goals that you were talking about, Lila as well. I want to switch gears a little bit, Lyle. And in the remaining five to seven minutes, give or take, of our show today and talk to you about something else that I know that you're paying close attention to. I'm paying attention to on your show, the Lyle Rose show, which I went on and really enjoyed it, you talk

[Josh Hammer]

about all the issues.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I know that you are deeply passionate, of course, about the right to life issue, but you also are a General surveyor of everything that is happening in the country and in the world at large. And I know that you see something

[Josh Hammer]

that I have not just seen, but

[Co-host or Interviewer]

have been, frankly, personally a victim of to an extent over the past year

[Josh Hammer]

or two, which is this.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

This traumatic rise in anti Semitism, frankly, just outright anti Americanism in many instances as well. And even more specific than that, Lila, what I would say is happening insofar as I see it, is I think that there is an information operation that is happening. I can't tell you exactly who is funding it, who is organizing it. I'm not going to kind of speculate nakedly there, but it seems to me that there is a concerted effort to try to tear apart Christians and Jews and this ecumenical biblical alliance that is the absolute foundation of the concerted movement as it has existed in American public life for the better part of probably 50 to 60, maybe even 70, 80 years or so. And some of these worst provocateurs, people like Candace Owens, Kerry Brijon Boehler, who was kicked off of President Trump's Religious Liberty Commission by Lieutenant Governor of Texas, a lot of these folks are doing so in the purported name, not the actual name, the purported name of Catholicism. I know that you are a faithful Catholic yourself, and we've had previous guests on the show, we had Jay Richards of the Heritage foundation who took this up there and kind of explains why these folks are wrong. But I kind of want to turn the mic over to you. Can you just kind of explain why these provocateurs just are not speaking at all, like. Like literally at all for the faith, for the church or anything like that?

[Lila Rose]

Yeah, I mean, let the church speak for the church. I mean, if there's going to be influencers, some of them, you know, profess to be new converts, whatever it might be, and they're using it to spew vitriol against our Jewish brothers and sisters, or to spew vitriol, quite frankly, about any group of people. But certainly it's been disgusting to see the rise in anti Semitism in the last few years that is anathema to the Catholic faith. In Nostra Aetate, you know, one of our encyclicals, it talks about how anti Semitism is evil and how God's covenant with the Jewish people, of course, still stands. And we obviously want everyone to become one in Christ, but we, you know, God brought Jesus Christ, he came into the world. He choose to come into the world as a Jew. I mean, how beautiful. And also says that this idea that there's collective guilt, you know, for the Jewish people because of, you know, Jesus's crucifixion, that that is completely false. So the church is very clear on this. There have been recent bishops like Bishop Robert Barron, who's also on that religious liberty commitment for President Trump, who spoke it out about how concerned he is about this rise in anti Semitism and has called out some of the, you know, the vicious attacks that have been wielded against those that are perceived to, you know, be other than because they don't like their Jewish background or whatever it is. So I. It breaks my heart to see it. It's deeply tragic. And I do think we need to speak out because it is sometimes easier, more convenient, especially if you're not Jewish, you know, myself to just be quiet, but I've chosen to speak out on this. I will continue to speak out on this because any attack on any group of people that historically been vulnerable, which is absolutely the Jewish people, I mean, terribly vulnerable, you are a tiny minority population and you have been savaged, especially in the last century. Any group of people that is being savaged by mobs of hatred and need, the outspoken defense, passionate defense, certainly of Christians. And so I think it's a responsibility, in my view of Christians, certainly of Catholics, to advocate for Jewish brothers and sisters, to advocate for all people who are being targeted, and to not put our heads in the sand and pretend like the attacks are not happening.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

It's very well said. And thank you so much, obviously, for saying that. You know, a lot of this does seem to happen from these high profile converts. And to be clear, conversion is a beautiful thing, right? I mean, whether it's Judaism or Catholicism or some other faith there, if I'm not mistaken, I think you actually yourself are a convert. Clearly you seem to know the teachings and the encyclicals better than some of these other converts. I'm not gonna ask you to judge the sincerity or lack thereof of some of these people that claim erroneously to be speaking there. But I guess what more else can be done? Can the bishops start speaking out there? To be clear, it's not just a Catholic issue there. I mean, obviously we'd love to see. See more Protestant laymen and clergy and so forth, beguiled. But what more can be done from an American Christian perspective specifically to really fight off again, which is not just an anti Semitic information operation, but is really ultimately, as far as I see, an anti American and anti Western civilization

[Lila Rose]

information operation, I agree. Because an attack on one specific group like the Jews Is, I believe, an attack on everyone. I think that is absolutely the case. An attack just because of their Jewishness, because of their ethnicity.

[Josh Hammer]

So.

[Lila Rose]

So I think. Or their heritage. I think that there have been amazing, you know, encyclicals, bishops who've spoken up against the, the hate. But remember, you know, President Joe Biden, you know, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, former speaker Nancy Pelosi, professed Catholics who supported abortion up until birth. So the Catholic Church is a Church that wants to make saints, but it consists of sinners. And many people can freely take on the name Catholic. They can be confirmed Catholic, they can be baptized as a baby Catholic, go through the sacraments and even show up at Mass. And they do not believe the truth, what the church actually teaches. And the Church isn't going to like, lock the doors and say, you know, do a litmus test. Do you believe all these things otherwise? Or are you a sinner? How bad of a sinner are you? Or how evil are you? Now, they can deny communion, and that has been done in very serious cases. But typically speaking even that it has to go to the soul of the person. Are they in the state of mortal sin? Did they recently confess? So the Church holds a lot of freedom. Remember One of the 12 of Jesus's disciples, one of them was Judas, who was literally at the Last Supper with him reclining at his feet, and then he would go on and betray him for 40 pounds of silver. I mean, that's the biblical story. So betrayal is going to always exist in the church. It always has. The answer is more love and more truth. And to acknowledge that sin is among us, we are ourselves sinful, and we all seek forgiveness and then to advocate for the vulnerable. And I think another part of this that has been so complicated for people is you can have strong opinions about the Israel Gaza war. You can have opinions about things you don't like that Israel is doing. And that's very fair. You can do that. You can say you're, you're devastated about the, the, the carnage that's happening in Gaza, and you can still not be anti Semitic. But some people, unfortunately collude all of that. And they go on this rampage against the Jewish people and everybody that's evil out there is a Jew for them. They, because they're upset about what's happening in Israel and Gaza, which, again, they're very, you know, good concerns to have. But this is where discernment is key. And we need to protect animus, you know, special hatred or bias entering our hearts.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Right? And that discernment is oftentimes also of course, overlooking, of course, the fact that Hamas uses human shields and then this and that there they're blindly violating all the international rules of warfare. Anyway, you and I could go on for a long time. Unfortunately, Lila, we are out of time. So Lila Rose again, folks, is the founder and president of Live Action. Follow her on Xyla Gracerose. Lila, thank you for your courage. Thank you, Josh. Thank you for all you do. Thank you for joining us today on the program. We really appreciate it.

[Lila Rose]

Thanks so much.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

You bet. Folks, have a great rest of your evening. We will be right back on Monday.

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