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- [00:07]
Brett Parbury
Journey on magic lies within the trails we ride. You're listening to the Journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warrick is a horseman trainer, international clinician and author who helps empower horse people from all over the world with the skills, knowledge and mindsets needed to create trusting partnerships with their horses. Warrick offers a free seven day trial to his customers comprehensive online video library that includes hundreds of full length training videos and several home Study courses@videos.warwickshiller.com just because you see what is show.
- [00:45]
Warwick Schiller
Welcome to the Journey on podcast. I'm your host, Warwick Schiller and this is our Equitana edition of the podcast. So normally I record the podcast in my house and I talk to people on an app on the computer. And I think it was Rod Lockwood that runs the whole of a email just a while ago and said, seeing you presenting at a Cortana, what if you had a live podcast right there? And a lot of times people make suggestions for things like that and I'm like, that's a dumb idea. But as soon as I heard that, I'm like, why didn't I think of that? That's awesome. And one of the reasons it's, it's amazing is because I've been trying to get my today's guest on the podcast for probably three years now. And sometime during the podcast today, I'm actually going to show him how to open an email and so that if I try to get him on the podcast again, I will, I can get him back. But welcome to the podcast. Brett Parbury.
- [01:44]
Brett Parbury
Thank you. It's great to be here. I'm very excited.
- [01:47]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it was the first time I met you, but at Equitana in 2008, I believe I was in the part of the night show, the Saturday night show, and Brett and I did a, a horse swap. I had the Rainer and Brett had the dressage horse and we came in, did a little bit of what we do, each separately and then we went out and then we, we switched horses and then came back in and basically, you know, gave each other a lesson on a horse you've never ridden in a discipline you don't do. And it was, yeah, it was fun. And then we, we got to catch up again, you know, at the World of question games in 2010 and then again in 2018. 18. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was super cool. But, but Brett, you've got an amazing, you know, you're one of Australia's leading dressage riders, but you have a story unlike anybody else probably in the, in the whole dressage world, not just Australia, but. So you. Let's. Let's go back to the beginning. You. Where'd you grow up?
- [02:57]
Brett Parbury
So I grew up in New South Wales in a very small town called Dorrigo. And Dorrigo is a town of 1100 people. It's inland from Coffs Harbour, so on the coast, it's a very mountainous, wet, green, rainforesty type town. And I grew up with my mother, father and my sister. And my father is a horse tragic. He was one of the original natural horsemen of the 60s and 70s and he's still alive. And he was in that first group that got in with Ray Hunt, when Ray Hunt come to Australia. So the whole join up and the whole natural horsemanship stuff that you see today, back then wasn't marketed as natural horsemanship, it was just horsemanship. And I was the kid kicking around with my Tonka trucks and the things sitting on the fences of the round yard while my dad, Ray Hunt, John Stanton, Bruce McNaughton, we're all trying to figure this stuff out. So, yeah, it's how I ended up in dressage. I don't know, but we can.
- [04:02]
Warwick Schiller
Don't jump ahead, but we're going to get to that. So you ended up at some point in time having a rodeo career and road saddle Bronx, didn't you?
- [04:12]
Brett Parbury
I did, yeah. As a matter of fact, I got on my last saddle bron here at Aquitana in 2008.
- [04:17]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah, they had a. They had a rodeo one night and they decided for this, this stunt that, that Brett was actually going to. What was. Were you going to come out of the shoot on the dressage horse first?
- [04:28]
Brett Parbury
Is that what these things always sound great in theory. Six months earlier, on an email that I did open, it actually sounded like a great idea, but when the day came of having to do it, I'm like, what the hell am I doing? But the idea was that on the rodeo night and I came down with a grand prix horse to compete and I rode in the masterclass and I just. That year I'd spent all year in Europe trying to make the Olympic Games in Beijing. So rodeo was the furthest thing from my mind. Anyway, we're driving down, my wife and I mel. I said, that's right. I've got to get on a bronc at this show. And the idea was I get on a horse, it just goes out and just sort of hops around and I get a re ride and then I come Back in on my dressage horse, fully dressed up as a cowboy and do a country and western freestyle.
- [05:15]
Warwick Schiller
And you were going to come out of the shoot on the dressage always, yeah. What they played.
- [05:18]
Brett Parbury
Don't know if we could have done that. We were. Our imagination was running wild, so we wouldn't surprise me if we did that. Anyway, I get here and I'm, you know, at that point, I'm still got a lot of mates that are riding in the rodeo, so I'm still connected pretty much on. So I borrowed a saddle and I had my own chaps and had my own spurs and boots, and I'm up there kicking around with the guys, and it's all like the old days. And they. Gary McPhee, who owned the horses, he said, have you seen what horse you're getting on? I'm like, no. He says, well, I wouldn't want to be getting on her. And I'm like, why is that? And he said, she's awful. Like, she'll go out there. She could go anywhere. Left, right, she'll go fast. It'll be awful. And she was awful. Like, she was so hard to ride. I got her written just purely through fear and managed to get off on the pickup horse. And. And, like, a lot of it came back to me, but the middle part of actually doing a good job, that certainly didn't come back to me. I just hung on, got off, and then when I hit the ground after get on the pickup, I said, that is it. I'm never doing that again. I saw for three weeks.
- [06:24]
Warwick Schiller
What was it like coming down here when you're driving along and all of a sudden you're like, mel, that's right. I've got to get on a saddle bronco. How was that internally? Was it like, oh, yeah. Or was it like, oh, you know.
- [06:37]
Brett Parbury
When you're kind of a bit naive to it all, like, oh, it'll be fine. Something will happen. It'll be fine. But looking back, if I knew, you know, those things that you're. In hindsight, you're always smarter. And I'm. And I look back, I'm like, why did I do that? But it worked out really well. Like, it worked out well. The dressage horse that we had, he was nearly as hard to ride as the bronze, but we got him in the rodeo arena and we did the dressage freestyle. Everyone loved it. And. And that was sort of like the best way to say goodbye to my rodeo career.
- [07:08]
Warwick Schiller
I've heard a story that it was almost your rodeo career that started your dressage career. Something about a magazine traveling with Ryan Mapston or something or other in America. So you went to America and you were traveling around with some of the best bronc riders in the world.
- [07:23]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, I was. Yeah. I was lucky enough to grow up with a couple of guys. One guy who's in the hall of fame, a guy called Glen O'Neill, and another guy who grew up directly over the hill from me, another guy called Greg Lees. We grew up together and I was lucky to grow up with guys who were just champion, people who became champion in their chosen sport, which was rodeo. I mean, I was always going to ride rodeo because my father did it and I grew up in the cowboy world. So rodeo was just going to be. It was always going to happen. I always think back now to my mother because We've got a 14 year old boy now, my wife and I, Mel. And if I think about him riding rodeo, I'm like, no way, you're not doing it. So I always worry about what my mother would think. But yeah, I was in America riding on the PRCA over there. And I was. We were traveling from North Platte, Nebraska, back to a rodeo in Utah, going through that sort of really desolate country through Wyoming. And we pulled into a service station and I was in the car with the current world champion, you know, a couple other guys.
- [08:29]
Warwick Schiller
Who was that? Dan Watson, was it?
- [08:30]
Brett Parbury
Well, Dan was in the car, but Glenn was there. He was 2000, whatever, world champion. Like there were a bunch of good guys in the car. I jump out, walk in the service station, and I see this Dressage Today magazine as I walked in and I'm like, I'll buy that. So I bought it and I'm laying back in the back of this camper van, driving to the rodeo and Ryan says to me, what's that you're eating? And I said, oh, that's dressage. And he goes, is that that English crap? And I said, yeah, I like it. Anyway, so I just read this magazine back to front and little did I know that planted this seed. So when I came back to Australia, I just decided, I'm going, I'm going to ride dressage. Yeah.
- [09:10]
Warwick Schiller
Really? It was like not.
- [09:11]
Brett Parbury
It was a sliding door.
- [09:12]
Warwick Schiller
I was thinking maybe you were training horses and like someone sent you a problem dressage horse and you working on the problem, but then you're like, oh, underneath this is some cool stuff I'd like to do. That wasn't, wasn't that.
- [09:23]
Brett Parbury
It was a bit like that was it I had, I had. I was making a little bit of pocket money on the side as a bit of a side hustle, helping people with some troubled horses. And where I was living at the time, which was in the Hawkesbury area of Sydney, it's a big equestrian area. So I was getting a lot of badly behaved dressage horses and I had that background of horsemanship and I was young and I was an ex rodeo rider and I'd done a lot of showing as a kid as well. So I'd ridden in a lot of shows. My sister was a HAP writer and I'd written a lot of shows. So I had a reasonably nice position and, you know, there was no one else doing the job, so it was a pretty easy way to get started. But it's funny when you put things into the universe, how it. What comes to you and would have been probably three months I was back in Australia just doing my normal hustle, mentioning the odd person that I'd like to do some dressage. And next scene up pops this opportunity to ride this really well schooled priest and George, which is sort of at the near top level of dressage horse, trained horse that was that the lady, Vicky Bryden had hurt her back and she couldn't ride the horse, so she offered to coach me for a year and have me compete the horse. So. And that was only three months after coming back from the States.
- [10:41]
Warwick Schiller
Wow. So, yeah, that opportunity that doesn't come to everybody, you know, the chance to start out on a, you know, a really nice horse and gets coached by a really good rider. That's. I mean, not only do you have the story of I was a bronco and then as a dressage rider, but how you even started the dressage is not normal. You got to work for years to get to ride a horse like that, don't you?
- [11:11]
Brett Parbury
You do, you do. And essentially, you know, I was a button pusher. I was riding a horse and pushing buttons. And because I had a reasonably nice position, I was competitive fairly quickly. But, you know, when it came to actually understanding dressage and being able to ride from the right the way through the levels, I had no clue. So then I had to go to Europe to learn all of that. So basically after that year, getting back to the from the States in 98, I picked up dressage in November 98. And then I did all of 99 here. And then I jumped back on a plane and went back to Europe to try and get into some stables and learn there. So I went and I Went at that stage. I'm, I'm nearly 30, 28, 29, and I'm back rolling up the bandages with the 16 year old kids and 18 year old kids and I'm peering over the walls, trying to watch these great dressage riders and trying to learn as much as I could. But yeah, I had to go from being like having a rodeo career, being a horse person to go right back to the bottom and just work for free and all that. So yeah, it wasn't easy.
- [12:22]
Warwick Schiller
It wasn't easy, but there was a choice you made. You just used a word. Then you said I had to. You didn't have to, you chose to.
- [12:30]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:33]
Warwick Schiller
And in the podcast I'm pretty big on, you know, usually I have really interesting people on the podcast who, you know, maybe have a view on the world that a lot of people don't have and I try to unravel. How did you, you know, how did you, how'd you get to view the world the way you viewed the world? And, or, and in this case, you know, I'm trying to unravel here, how did you get to the top of the heap in the dressage? Coming from the rodeo background. But you know, a lot of times people say you're, you know, oh, he's lucky or that person's lucky or whatever, but you just said, you know, I had to go. You didn't have to go back to Roland Bandages. You chose at the age of 29, close to 30 to go. I want to start, I want to do this. And to do this you've got to, you got to start at the beginning.
- [13:17]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, actually it's really interesting hearing that back. But you're right, like I think that I just wanted to be successful in that sport and I put so much work and effort into my rodeo career. I was always a bit tall for it to be a really competitive sailboat rider. So I had to work twice as hard as a lot of the other guys, keeping my weight down, keeping my fitness and my, my, you know, just the quick reaction. So that work ethic and I guess that the skills that rodeo taught me about mental visualization and discipline in my training. When I chose to go to dressage, it was a no brainer. I just had to apply those skills to another sport. And if that involved me rolling up bandages with 18 year old kids in the stable, that's what I had to do. But I was watching every move that these guys were making and learning about what a top dressage rider does and, and, but, but I must say, then there's. There are many roads to Rome. So it's then finding the way that fits with your philosophy. That's the thing that took forever, because there's a lot of information out there, and there's a lot of ways to get to it, not all of which fit with my philosophy about training horses and being a horse person. So that's what took the time.
- [14:36]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah. And I imagine because you had such a background in horses, in maybe. I don't know if you would call it a practical sense, but, you know, sometimes people are attracted to a discipline, say dressage. You know, I used to sit in the raining, too. Like, they don't have that much horse experience, but I want to do that. And they kind of learn an event, they learn a discipline, but underneath the discipline, there's a whole body of knowledge that's just understanding how horses work without trying to figure out how horses work in a certain. In a certain slot. And you had, you know, you had that in spades as well. So that kind of added to it.
- [15:17]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I. When you say that, I know riders that have been extremely successful in the sport of dressage, but like you say, if you took them off that dressage horse, they wouldn't really know what to do. They're very good at the discipline, not so good at being overall horse people. You know, I'm a really big one on the philosophy, and I know, like coming through the Western disciplines and being a cowboy growing up, I always sort of think the cowboy way. I remember there was this thing that went around, there was a cowboy way, and cowboys love animals and love kids and, you know, and that's what we are. That's who we are. And to be a dressage rider with that cowboy influence. I also wanted to love my horses and train my horses really well and not get forced into the whole forcey nature that can sometimes happen in any discipline. I'm not just saying dressage, but it can happen in any discipline. Not to lose that, I must say. Like, I'm very. I'm a sports nut. I love sport. And I've also made plenty of mistakes by having the dream of. Of doing something really well and letting my horsemanship go to get to that point. But he just to keep circling back to great horsemanship and having confidence in my philosophy. That's been the thing that, you know, in. What are we talking now, 24, five years of dressage, just pure dressage. That's been, I think, the best lesson I've Ever. That I could take from any of this. Believing in my philosophy and who I want to be.
- [16:50]
Warwick Schiller
But that's a journey to get there, don't you think? Like, believing in your philosophy? I think probably early on, if you, you know, maybe if someone has a lot of success in a discipline or whatever, early on, you kind of believe in yourself in a kind of a puffed up sort of a. Sort of a way. And I think that kind of stops you from seeing your own. What's the word for that, Robin? Your blind spots. You know, you. You know, if you have some early success in things and you're not terribly grounded, you can. You can. You can kind of believe your own BS and become blinded to your blind spots. And I imagine with you over the years, you know, you. You probably, you know, got to a certain point, and then you look back like, I've got to back up a bit. Yeah, you. You found that.
- [17:43]
Brett Parbury
Oh, yeah. And you know what? It was always one horse that made me back up. You know, it was always like, because, you know, we have to ride for a living, so therefore, we're taking horses from. From everywhere. And oftentimes difficult, troubled horses. And it was always been one horse. You know, all the other horses were going well, but it was always one that was telling me, you're on the wrong track here, buddy. You got to start looking for other ways. And. And it was my wife, Mel, actually, that would say, you know, I was just trying to teach you something. Just take time and listen. You'll be fine. You'll figure it out. And we did, and we have. And. But, yeah, the horses. I mean, you know, I don't want to be cliche, but they just tell you everything you need to know. If you're prepared to listen to them and just figure it out, they'll tell you exactly where you're going wrong.
- [18:30]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah, they say, you don't get the horse you want, you get the horse you need. And, you know, the. You know, when I have people on the podcast, really, on what? We want to hear your story. You know, everybody has a great story. But the thing I try to drag out of podcast guests is those. Those inspirations, you might want to call them, so that people listening can kind of go, oh, yeah, you know, because a lot of times, you know, people tend to think that these guys are. They're too big, successful because they're lucky or they're born talented or they're whatever, whatever, whatever. And anybody who's got to the elite level of anything has had a lot of Struggles, you know, struggles in your. Maybe in your process, then struggles in believing your process, and then self confidence issues and all that sort of thing. Have you struggled much with the, you know, you had this vision, I want to do this world? Have you. Did you get to those points to where you're like, can I really do this?
- [19:37]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, yeah, I did. You know that like you said that the ego of a. Of a more likely a young man is. It does some things that are good, which drives you. Like, you're driven. You're driven, probably for the wrong reasons, but you're driven. You go through the bad points, the tough times, you know, and. And we've had. We've had. I mean, gc. I don't want to make everyone cry, but we've had some really awful things. You know, I had a horse that. When Warwick and I were in the World equestrian games in 2010, I was 8th in the world on that horse, and he was one of the best horses in the world. And 12 months later, that horse had died and that was leading into the London Olympics. So my number one horse in the top, possibly was one of the best horses on the planet in dressage, suddenly just dies. So then, you know, the sadness of that, then we're trying to put ourselves back together to go on with other horses. And then going into the Tokyo Olympics, we had another horse that was. He would have been probably top 20 in the world. He died. So. And then we. We had a horse at 2018 WEG that I was 32nd in the world on. We sold him in America and then he died. So you get all these really awful stories of that was rabbit, wasn't it? That was rabbit, yeah. So here's Australian bread. So. And then of course, on top of that, you get the hardest part about being a professional horse trainer is that is dealing with the people's expectations. You know, they're paying good money, they want you to do well. They also want you out there and things. And different people have different motivations. I get it. I mean, I understand why, but they don't always line with our motivation. Our motivation is to be a great horse person and to take time if needed. That doesn't always add up. So we've had horses come and go from our stables after you put a lot of time into them. So there are a lot of dark days as far as, why are we doing this? But in the same time, I just think to myself, I couldn't live without it. Like, what else am I going to do? I'm not Good at anything else. So what else am I going to do? And yeah, so basically it just keeps. You know, I definitely have my highs and lows even now. Like, I have highs and lows with it all. But I'm always brought back to what else am I going to do? Like, I love this.
- [22:16]
Warwick Schiller
I got a great story to share with you guys about Rabbit. So the horse that Brett had at WEG in 2018, so we had someone. So we drew. We live in California. So my wife Robin and I were on the Australian raining team. The water question games was in North Carolina, which is on the other coast. So it's like driving Perth to Sydney sort of thing. Hey, Tazzy. And we had someone drive our horses from our place to Dan James's place in Kentucky. And that was three or four days drive. Four days drive. Then we flew into. Flew into Lexington, Kentucky, and we stayed at Dan's place for a couple of days. And Brett was there with his horse. So, you know, if anybody knows Dan James, he's the mad scientist coming up with funny ideas. And there was a song going around at the time, and it was called the. The Kiki challenge. Was it? And there was this little dance that you do to it. And Dan James is like, we're gonna, like, you guys are here and Brett's here. We're gonna make a Kiki challenge video. And so we spent quite a bit of time doing our parts of it. But then. And part of it, I think the Kiki challenge had something to do with a car. Like, people would be in a car. The video would be in the car, and they'd step out of the car and they'd walk beside the car, and they make a little heart and do a little dance or whatever. And so we're trying to do this. This Kiki Challenge thing. And we've filmed some stuff. So, like the films in the cameras in the backseat of the car that drove down the arena, and it goes past Robin on her horse and she's spinning and. And, oh, Dan had me on one of his liberty horses and it was rearing up, and I fell off the back of it on the beanbag. Whatever. But Brett's bit. Brett shows up there one day, and Dan's like, hey, why don't you get on Rabbit? And we're gonna do this thing. And this is where Brett's horsemanship, as well as the dressage stuff comes in. Because a lot of times, you know, with a high level dress arch horse, we want to make sure that the environment's pretty quiet. Sort of thing. You know, we don't want too many flapping things. Sometimes they can be a little volatile or whatever. So this is the horse that Brett's going to compete on in a few days. So he gets Rabbit out and he walks around, you know, the arena a couple of times, and Dan says, can we put an Australian flag on his. Actually, it was the boxing kangaroo flag. I think it wasn't. It was, can we put a flag on him? Oh, yeah. So they hung the flag over Rabbit's bum, tucked it in under the saddle cloth, and then Brett's walking around and Dan says, so why don't you come along beside the movie, the Moving Truck, and we're going to video and we want you to do one time Tempus. And Brett's like, yeah, let me just have a little practice. He's walking around, he canters off on Rabbit and goes, change. And with this flag flapping out the back and goes down the arena. Change, change, change, change, change, change, change, change, change, change around. They're going to change, change. Yeah, we're good to go. Like, no warm up. Did the hardest thing you can do with the flag hanging off the back.
- [25:11]
Brett Parbury
It was funny.
- [25:12]
Warwick Schiller
It was. It was super cool.
- [25:13]
Brett Parbury
It was so cool. You know, we always joke when we're filming stuff. I'm like, this is a one take. I don't do more than one take. Righto, everyone ready? We boom. And. And if I have to do more than one take, I get a bit angry. So I'm like, so, yeah, that was a one take out, that one.
- [25:29]
Warwick Schiller
Let's just do the one take for the podcast. And I don't want you. I don't want you getting angry. So what you've. You've got a bit of a. One of the things that fascinates me about you is probably your, like, your mindset. You do some coaching these days with. With writers and from the outside looking in. It's not. It's not the coaching one might normally see necessarily for dressage riders. I would say you. It's almost like you're a mindset coach or a life coach or something like that. Can you tell us a bit about what you're doing with that sort of thing?
- [26:11]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, I mean that it's. It's been this enormous human experiment. You know, when you. I always joke about this and I say, when you've got debt and you're a professional horse person, you need to coach a lot. All right? You need to get out there and coach, because training horses doesn't Actually bring in that much income. So, you know, I was on the road a lot and still am. And when you stand in arenas and coach, that is the best way to learn. I must say, like, coaching is an incredible way to learn.
- [26:42]
Warwick Schiller
They do say, if you really want to learn how to do something, well, teach it.
- [26:46]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, it's great because it helps you structure it, it helps you describe it in so many different ways that you cannot get it wrong. So I had to code. I coach a lot and I kept thinking to myself, there's got to be a way that I could send a memo or an email or something ahead of time, two weeks before the clinic and say, righto, guys. For all people riding in the clinic, this is what I expect. This is what this is. This is my philosophy, this is who I am. This is how I want you to ride. Here's two weeks to prepare yourself. And when I get there, I can get on to coaching you and not have to teach you. And there's a big difference in the teaching, the philosophy and the fundamentals of why we're doing something. So when I get there, you've got all that. I don't need to stand there in a 45 minute session and teach you everything about me. You know that. And now I can get onto coaching you. So that morphed into a few different ideas and it eventually came through as what we call performance riders. It started off as the PABRI program and we turned it into performance riders because it has a bigger spectrum. But what I've learned with that is for those, it's a bit out there. Like, so, you know, most people in dressage think the only way to get better is to get a lesson right from a coach. That's not true. The best way is to equip yourself with knowledge, preferably share the same philosophy as your coach, and then spend your time writing, working on your skill set and working on what you know, getting those eyes on the ground and let the knowledge come in through other ways. And I've learned that online is good. You know, you can get to a lot of people, especially in dressage. Most people are at home riding by themselves. They're not riding with a coach. They often ride by themselves. And it's the writing time by yourself that actually makes you better. It's not the lesson that made you better. The lesson got you the information and the way you applied it is what got you better.
- [28:49]
Warwick Schiller
So, but can I just interrupt for a second? But the thing I think you're doing different there is that teaching Thing comes first, so they understand the reasons why, the lessons there, you know, like you said, when you get to the coaching, you're just doing the thing. We're not talking about all the understanding why. And I think a lot of people that get coaching without the teaching, they can go do the lesson and they go home. And I'm not sure what to do because I don't know why I did the things before.
- [29:25]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, definitely. And I've. I've made that mistake. I mean, if I think about other sports and the way people coach in other sports, equestrian is so far behind. We're in the dark ages. And I would often go give a lesson, you know, pull this, do that, go there, more forward, whatever. Almost like controlling them like a marionette, like a puppet, and then wondering why six weeks later, they haven't improved. Well, because they were just doing the things I was saying, not actually understanding why. And when you're writing and trying to do these things, you really are restricted to at least only 20% is going to land in the right place. And you're probably only 10% of that, or half of it at least, is going to stick with you. So I was wondering why people would always be reverting back to their normal way of writing, and we weren't getting a lot of progression here. So that's what led to that whole, let's get the. Let's get the knowledge in, and that takes time, as we know, and then let's spend the time coaching. And, you know, it's impossible for me to personally coach everybody who does our program, but what I say is it just makes your coach more effective. Those people, when they have their coach, when. When they say to be able to do something and you have the skills and the knowledge to be able to do it, it allows them to take you further as well. So what I've learned, you know, this human experiment I've been conducting for the last four years is it's interesting when you watch a lot of riders, when you're writing a rock, when you're watching a writer that has concentration and focus versus someone who maybe doesn't share the same focus. And I'm of the view that your horse really deserves 100% of your attention. And watching the riders that have got the knowledge, they've got the. They've been through, they've got the knowledge, and they're completely focused. It's almost like a different demeanor. And I've noticed over time, the horse's shapes are starting to change. You know, the muscle structure the way the horses are muscling and the relaxation in the eye because they're getting riders who are not riding confused and going on tangents. They're sticking to a clear system and they're just repeating that over and over. And as we know, it's all about repetition with, with horse training. So that's. I'm really enjoying watching this play out now. We're now four years in and play out across a broad number of people.
- [32:02]
Warwick Schiller
And it seems to me it's more about mindset stuff. And I'm wondering what, you know, are you a. Are you a reader of books or like, where does the mindset stuff come for you? Is it from practical experience or are you like a, you know, listen to podcasts of this genre or read books of this genre? Where did that stuff come to you?
- [32:26]
Brett Parbury
It originated. Do you remember the original self help book Robin Might know, Psycho Cybernetics with Maxwell Maltz? I mean, it was heavy reading.
- [32:35]
Warwick Schiller
Well, that was. You see, you come from the rodeo world and there was a famous bull rider named Gary Lew in America who was a world champion bull rider. And if you ever saw the movie eight Seconds, he's the one who taught Luke Perry to ride a bull for eight seconds. But back in the early 70s, he was reading this Psycho Cybernetics and it was all about the power of positive thinking and your internal dialogue you have with yourself and stuff. And like before, most of the world were kind of thinking about that sort of thing. And so I'm. Did that. Is that where it came from, the rodeo world?
- [33:10]
Brett Parbury
Exactly where it came from. So it came, it came to me through the rodeo world. I mean, it was heavy reading. I didn't understand half of it, but it just got me into that. Oh, okay, there's another way here. And that visualization, probably the skill that I took the most was the visualization skill of being able to put myself in a place and a time and improve my skills by using visualization. So then that opens the door and of course then you gravitate to what you're interested in. So now in today's world with the podcasts and all the things out there, I'm just all the time listening, trying to find if these. Listen to yours and listen to people that have come through there. I love listening to people's stories, but I love how they've learned from. How they've learned from their experiences and, and if we can offer our membership and this is probably the biggest thing, it's almost like giving them a user's guide to dressage. This is dressage, and this is how you can enjoy it. Because it can be really, really. It's a tough sport. It really is a tough sport. But it's like, here's a user's guide, by the way. We're going to create a really good community around you. Forget all that other rubbish you see on social media. This is a. This is a positive, supportive community. We're going to put that around you and we're going to feed you with knowledge and we're going to get you on a really clear system so you can own your training. And then hopefully you've got a coach who shares the same philosophy, and we're going to get you to enjoy this sport. And that's basically how. How it's morphed over the years. And it's so enjoyable. I say in the Mel, like, we had a lady come to the stand and she's telling us all these great stories. I'm like, how satisfying is that? There's one person that's out there enjoying their horse more than they did, and that's all that. That's really all we care about, is just trying to help people enjoy their horses. And in the sport of dressage.
- [35:05]
Warwick Schiller
Right. Okay. So let's kind of better make a bit of a segue into, like, question time about things. Have what? One of the questions. So, on my podcast, usually I give people a list of 20 questions actually stole from Tim Ferriss's Tribe of Mentors book. One of them is, do you have a. If you're a book reader, do you have a. Do you have a book you recommend to people the most? Not necessarily your favorite book, but one that you say, hey, this book might help you. Do you have one of those?
- [35:34]
Brett Parbury
You know, I'm not a great reader. I. I wish I was. I really wish I was. I mean, I'm envious of people who are great readers. You know, I have listened to the. In the Game of Tennis, I think it's called, and I've listened to a lot of those. Yeah, no, not really. One book in particular, I'm still looking for that one to get me, but I take a lot of little bits from a lot of little things I read from. I will occasionally pick up a book. I'll go through a chapter, but yeah, not one in particular.
- [36:06]
Warwick Schiller
What about what has been your biggest failure and how has it helped you?
- [36:14]
Brett Parbury
Wow. I mean, we often joke that the program, our program should be called Brett's 10,000 mistakes, because it's just a whole series of Stories around every mistake I've made and how some of them, most of them, I've made twice. So the biggest failure. Oh, God, what is that? I really. There's so many.
- [36:44]
Warwick Schiller
Well, while you're thinking of that, let that dwell for a minute. Okay. Most embarrassing moment in the show arena.
- [36:51]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, well, that's easy. How many people here are dressage people? Okay, another one. I'll just explain. So basically we write a test, a dressage test. And oftentimes you. You have to learn the test and they can be. That can be difficult. And you would think that the higher level tests are the hardest to remember. Actually, the lower level tests are the hardest remember because you're right around doing nothing and then all of a sudden you're a circle. And then all of a sudden you do nothing again for a while and then you do something else. And you know, that can take some remembering. So I'm there one day. I've got two mares, beautiful young mares in this class at a local day and the lady judging, I was actually training a few horses for her. So, you know, we won't go there with the whole judge conflict of interest. But anyway, I ride down the center line and I must have had. And you come in and you halt and you salute the judge and you trot off. And I must have had this blank look on my face because she's suddenly gone, that as if to say, turn that way. So I've got, I ride the test and I've got a caller. So there's a person there yelling out, do this at this marker. Do you know?
- [38:00]
Warwick Schiller
So. So the judge is telling you which way to go. And you've got a caller as well. And I've got a call, so you can't get lost.
- [38:05]
Brett Parbury
It gets better, trust me. So then I'm riding along and I make. And when you make a mistake in dressage, it's not quiet. They'd ring a bell and everyone looks right. So I've ridden and I've made a mistake. I was meant to trot here and I can straight past it because I was thinking to myself, God, this horse feels great. She feels so good. And I've just ridden straight past the marker. Ding, ding, ling, mistake. Oh, okay, no problem. I'm embarrassed. There's a caller, no trouble. Right out of the arena. All good. I come back on the second horse, right? You know where this is going. Come back on the second horse. I've got the caller. I made the same mistake again on the second horse I made on the first one with the caller. I just made a mistake. Like you couldn't believe it. I could dug a hole because everyone's like, how do you possibly make the same mistake twice with a caller in that test? So. Yeah, but there's been plenty of embarrassing moments, I must say. There's been plenty. I'm always doing something stupid.
- [39:03]
Warwick Schiller
What about the thing that you're most proud of?
- [39:11]
Brett Parbury
Look, you know, my family, I must say, like, I, I, I've got a great family and my son and my wife, are they meant to. He's riding here, actually. My son, he walks around, he looks.
- [39:29]
Warwick Schiller
Identical to me and I watched him ride last night. He rides just like it.
- [39:32]
Brett Parbury
Yeah. So look, they're, they're my, them I'm proud of. I've had a great time in the dressage arena. I've, I've, I've been in the top 10 in the world. I've been sort of in that echelon of riders that are respected worldwide. I feel like I can still do that. I feel like I have the ability to do it and, but my family would be. Yeah, the best thing I've ever achieved.
- [40:03]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah. It makes a lot of stuff pale in comparison, doesn't it?
- [40:08]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, yeah, it's, look, this horse thing, it's great, it's a great way to spend your life. And we, we, you know, we struggle for money like everyone else and it's tough and you often go through times we're like, why are we doing this? But you know, to do it as a family, to share it as a sport that we enjoy, all of us. It's not like driving down here in the truck and, you know, we're all together and what? Well, how does it get any better than that?
- [40:36]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah, I was watching, you were talking about that. The writers who can stay focused and the ones that kind of get distracted. I was watching your son right around there last night. So there's a, you know, there was a warm up last night for, actually, for the night show. So there was too many donkeys in the arena. There were goats, there were dressage horses, there were liberty horses. There was a, some sorts of machinery. There's a lot of stuff going on. I watched your son ride around and he could have been riding in there alone. Apart from when you and him were doing the pas de deux. It's like he didn't see anything. He was just right there. It was cool to watch.
- [41:11]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, no, it is really cool to watch. And I must say, he doesn't get that much help from us. He absorbs it from everybody else and his heroes. Dave McKinnon, who's a dressage rider here, he's over there now with Dave. Dave worked for us for five years. Um, so he's over there hanging out with his hero. And, yeah, you know, he.
- [41:26]
Warwick Schiller
Look, I was watching him last night, and he looks like he's a great mimic. Like. Like, he rides just like you. And I've seen, you know, back in my writing days and stuff, you would see people that ride with a trainer, and you can see the people who spend lots of trial lots of time trying to emulate that. And you can see the people who are just doing the. Doing the things like, you know, they're not necessarily trying to emulate that. And just watching him last night, it was. It was. Yeah. I mean, you know, how old is he? 14.
- [41:57]
Brett Parbury
14, yeah, he's 14.
- [41:58]
Warwick Schiller
There's the big screen up there with the. All the stuff, and he was just, like, in his zone. It was. Yeah, it was very, very cool to watch. Okay, now, more fun questions.
- [42:09]
Brett Parbury
So I was going to get back to you on that.
- [42:11]
Warwick Schiller
Oh, please take.
- [42:12]
Brett Parbury
Or was it a mistake or.
- [42:13]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah, that was the biggest mistake. And how.
- [42:15]
Brett Parbury
Failure. Biggest failure. I think where I've possibly failed myself in everything is not quite understanding the. Well, you know, you evolve into the person you're going to become. And I wished I'd learned that earlier, but I wouldn't have done it without all the mistakes and. But also in. I just wished I'd understood to take more time for me through the sport, like I've. You're on the front foot and you're trying to be commercial and you're trying to build a business and support a family and pay a mortgage and all these things. And I just wished over the course of the last 24 years that I'd actually slowed down, taken time for us and enjoyed it more because it has been a blur. And whilst you can look back and be very proud of it, it's hard to say I enjoyed it on the way through because it was such a hustle. So, yeah, if I can give my son some advice, it will be slow down, things will happen, things will come, and really enjoy every step of the way.
- [43:32]
Warwick Schiller
Great advice that things will come. You kind of mentioned before about it's amazing what the universe gives you or something or other. And you said it was, you know, when that. That lady said, hey, I've hurt myself and I've got this really nice horse. And I think if you'd had the. This is really What I believe, at least anyway, you'd had the mindset like, I want that to happen. I want. I'm looking for something like that. You. It's almost like you scare it off. You've just got to like, relax and be open to that.
- [44:03]
Brett Parbury
Yeah.
- [44:05]
Warwick Schiller
I had a guest on the podcast recently, a fella, he's a. His name's Peter Crone. I don't know if anybody's ever seen Peter Crone on, like, social media. He is a, like a big time mindset coach. He was a. He was a physical. He wasn't a personal trainer for a long time in la. He actually was the personal trainer for Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman when Tom did all the Mission Impossible movies. So he traveled all over the world with them. But he told a story on the podcast about he had this breakup with his girlfriend and he was really upset for like months and months and months. And all he was thinking about, I wish you could get back. I wish I could hear from her. And it just went on. He was just miserable. And then at some point in time he went and he just like, let it go. And 15 minutes, the phone, 15 minutes later the phone rang and she's like, hey, Peter, I've been thinking about you. So I got a message this morning from a lady. She said, so weird, I just had to tell you this. I listen to your journey on podcast every day while I walk. We just sold our horse properly and I've been obsessively worrying about where my horse will go. I've got no place for my horse. I listened to the Peter Krohn podcast yesterday about how he obsessed over losing the love of his life, but he gave up the what ifs and she called 15 minutes later. So I vowed to give up control and just got a call that I have a stall for my horse.
- [45:34]
Brett Parbury
It's like that, isn't it? You know, you put you, you, you. But did you call it repel things?
- [45:40]
Warwick Schiller
You repel. You almost. You almost scare it off.
- [45:44]
Brett Parbury
Yeah.
- [45:44]
Warwick Schiller
Having that, like that needy energy, you know? And it's. It's like when he's tried to catch a horse, when you got to catch him, you have this energy that just drives them in. You know what I mean? And I don't think it's just horses. I think it's everything but the, you know, the more, the more you just have this, this neediness about something, the less it happens. That doesn't mean you're not. You're not open to it doesn't mean you're not, you know, you're like, I don't care what happens or whatever. But yeah, and it's, it's that intangible thing like you can't actually touch that, you know, and it seems like you, that's what fascinates me about you is it seems like you've tapped into that to where you, you know, you're, you're driven and all that sort of stuff, but you're also open to allow things to happen because I just don't, I don't, I, I don't think. Very rarely, I think does it happen if you're just obsessed over things in a certain needy sort of a way.
- [46:42]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, no, you're right. And you know, dressage is a very foot perfect sport and you're always making a mistake. You know, it's very difficult to actually do a, a dressage test, especially at Grand Prix level and not, and not be unhappy with something that you did wrong or you didn't set up properly. So you do get quite good at accepting things aren't going to be perfect and, and, and you know, we're just trying to achieve some form of excellence. And it is a great sport if you're prepared to approach it in that way. If you're looking for perfection and you, and you're full of ego and you're going to show the world how good you are, it'll just bring you back to earth. It's a very brutal sport in that way.
- [47:27]
Warwick Schiller
But, you know, that could apply to a lot of things too. So I have a question for you, going back to your rodeo days. What's the worst injury you ever incurred in rodeo?
- [47:40]
Brett Parbury
I broke my leg.
- [47:42]
Warwick Schiller
I mean, don't go there because I'm going there in a minute with the back just sticking to rodeo right now.
- [47:49]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, I knew, I knew I told you that. So, so I broke my leg in Tumut one day I, I got on a young horse, a young Bron, and this mare was a full sister to a number of other bucking mares that were really good. And I'd won a lot of money on some of the sisters, the older sisters in the Mayor. So I said to the owner of the horse, what's this one? He goes, oh, this is the younger one of them. He said, just, he said, just take it easy with her. Like she's still a bit green. It's funny, isn't it, when you're talking rodeo horses a bit green. But we, once you're in that sport, you start to see it's, it is A sport, right? Horses buck. They learn to buck and they're usually controlled. And it looks all wild and crazy, but it's very controlled, very measured. And even though it's wild and you can get injured, of course, but when horses are learning their pattern, they will make mistakes. So anyway, she came out and she bucked exactly the way he said. And I thought to myself, before I got on her, I thought if I. If I ride her, of course, and finish and I hear the whistle, I'm going to jump off her and give her a victory. Right? Because there's nothing better for a bucking horse than to get a victory because it makes them want to try harder and improve themselves. Okay? They improve.
- [49:04]
Warwick Schiller
So the victory means, like, you come off while they're still bucking. It's not like they buck. You ride the bucks out, then they go to running around and the pickup man gets you.
- [49:12]
Brett Parbury
Yeah. And then you jump off and there's a way you do it like it's, it's. You see it done quite a bit. And I get around and the whistle goes and I'm like, okay, pick up. Men are nowhere near me. I'm going to jump off. So I sort of went to. For her to jump in the air and I went to sort of push myself off. And if you do it well, you can land on your feet. And it's all very controlled. Or right at the moment that I went to jump off, she sort of flattened out and ran and took the saddle completely out from under me. So suddenly there's no push up, there's only that way. So my feet go that way. And I've got like a split second to change my plan, and that was to spin around and land on my feet going backwards. Well, then of course, broke my leg.
- [49:49]
Warwick Schiller
Which bone in your leg? Oh, through there, through, down the bottom. So one of the smaller bones in your leg. Yep. Okay, let's change tact to. What's the worst injury you ever had of a dressage?
- [50:01]
Brett Parbury
Way worse. So I always say. One interesting fact, I got bucked off more in my first year of dressage than my last year of rodeo. Can you believe that? So, and that. And that's definite because I was getting everything. But basically I broke my leg about four years ago where a young horse, he actually went to the Olympics this year. That horse, he spooked and I don't know why or how it happened, but suddenly he just disappeared from under me. And I got sort of cartwheeled in midair and landed a little bit like planking on the ground. And my wife Mel had said about two days before, I think this arena is getting a bit hard. We need to rip it up. And I'm like, don't be stupid. It's fine. And as I hit this arena, no joke, the first thing that went through my mind was, she was right. It is hard. I. It was so hard because as I hit, I'm like, she was right. Anyway, so up I sit, and I broke my leg through here.
- [51:01]
Warwick Schiller
So the bigger bone?
- [51:03]
Brett Parbury
Yeah.
- [51:04]
Warwick Schiller
In your leg?
- [51:04]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, a few screws.
- [51:06]
Warwick Schiller
So what you're telling me is you broke a bigger bones riding dressage horses than you did riding saddle Bronx?
- [51:11]
Brett Parbury
Absolutely. This dressage is way more dangerous than rodeo.
- [51:19]
Warwick Schiller
That's the story I wanted to get out of here. Just not to make a point.
- [51:23]
Brett Parbury
Just.
- [51:23]
Warwick Schiller
I think it's. I think it's a great story. So what's next for Brett Povey? Like what. What? You got anything new on the horizon?
- [51:30]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, I think. Yeah. Navigating the next chapter is something that goes through my head a lot. And this is, I think, why I'm bouncing. I'm bouncing in and out of interest. You know, the interest is, okay. Do I really. I mean, my son's only 14, so we're very careful that we don't put too much pressure on him. He puts enough on himself. So we just want to guide him through that. I also want to. And Mel does as well. We want to be great role models to him. So we want to show him that we can be passionate, that we can work hard, that we're going to have bad days and there's going to be highs and lows and all of this and really teach him. There's no better way of teaching than having watch us do it. So probably what motivates me the most at the moment is trying to stay really, really engaged and motivated in the sport of dressage, more so to be a role model. I don't necessarily have aspirations at the moment to go and compete for Australia at the Olympics or World Games. That in itself is a very difficult logistical exercise. You've got to take horses overseas. You're away from home for often for long periods of time. There's a lot of logistics that go with that that are difficult, but more so I want to eat, sleep, breathe a really aspirational Grand Prix dressage rider and produce the horses at home. More so to be a role model and then at the same time, really invest my interests into business, into the business side of equestrian. I'm really passionate personally about Bit like we're talking with Robin earlier, the. The development of a mass of people like, how can I get. How can I get more people, more knowledge and have them in control of their own training system? Because the horses, as we know, they just want consistency. That's all they're looking for. Don't go down rabbit holes and don't go down Tangents and watch YouTube one day and all of a sudden you've gone on a tangent. Just stay consistent. Understand your sport. Form a system of training that fits with your philosophy on who you want to be. You know, we help. We try and find. Help people find who they are, what they want to be, how they want to train. How can you get that information? How can you get in the structured system that you can repeat it day in, day out, and the horse will thank you for the consistency and then watch that transpire. So taking that to the States, I did a masterclass earlier this year in. At Devon in Philadelphia at a big American show. I'd like to go back to the States and try and see does this information resonate with the American public. We're doing a collaboration with an eventing writer. Do you guys know an Australian eventing writer? He rides for America called Boyd Martin? You heard of Boyd Martin? He's a fabulous guy. Amazing guy. Boyd and I are collaborating on something for the Americans to also go down this path for eventing of a structured, systematic way. So loving to just invest my time into that and then just again in my writing. Just be that role model.
- [54:48]
Warwick Schiller
Yeah, I think you're. You're actually living that. You know, you're not just talking about being a role model, but you are living it and looking at it from the sidelines. You know, I can. I can definitely see it. So how can people get a hold of you? We know email doesn't work, but look like your program. How do people find that?
- [55:07]
Brett Parbury
Yeah, Performance writers is. It's just performance writers dot com. I think it's AU performance. Yeah, I get it wrong every time. It's performance writers.com that will take you to our page and that then you can just go in. We've got a course on there called Resilient Writing and a fellow called Jonah Oliver. And Jonah Oliver is the mindset coach for Daniel. Was Daniel Ricardo the driver, The Formula one driver. Yeah, the girl that won the walking gold medal at the Olympics. She was. She was a bit of a hit here in Australia. He's her mindset coach. He's a mindset coach for a number of athletes. Well, we partnered with Jonah to get. He's also the mindset coach for the really good golfer Cameron Smith. So his skill set just goes across a lot of different sports and disciplines. But again, you know, these guys, they're not reinventing the wheel. They just make you be honest with yourself. Like they get you doing things for the right reasons. Because we know if you're doing it for the right reason, you'll want to do it again and you'll do it again and you'll form good habits and then good habits create and self awareness create repetitive behavior and behavior is what actually trains the horse. So we've got a course in there from Jonah Oliver. You know, we've got ours with dressage and just really just trying to help people. So yeah, performancewriters.com and sorry, it's just dot com. Sorry, that's my fault. Yeah, it is. Dot com. As you can see, I'm not in charge of the business side.
- [56:41]
Warwick Schiller
I know exactly how that goes. I know exactly how that goes. Well, thanks so much for joining me here on the Aquitana edition of the Journey on podcast and hope the rest of the week goes for you. Good for you.
- [56:51]
Brett Parbury
Thank you, Warwick. And thanks for having me.
- [56:53]
Warwick Schiller
Good seeing you.
- [56:56]
Brett Parbury
Thanks for being a part of the Journey on podcast with Warrick Schiller. Warrick has over 850 full length training videos on his online video library@videos.warwickshiller.com Be sure to follow Warrick on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram to see his latest training advice and insights.