Erik Cooper

Summary

The Journey On Podcast: Episode with Eric Cooper

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Journey On Podcast, host Warwick Schiller welcomes adventurer and equestrian extraordinaire Eric Cooper. The conversation delves deep into Eric's thrilling experiences, personal growth, and his profound connection with horses and nature. Throughout the episode, Eric shares his transformative journey from a small-town Missouri upbringing to becoming a pivotal figure in extreme horseback adventures worldwide.

Eric Cooper’s Background and Early Adventures

Eric begins by outlining his current ventures, managing Eric Cooper Adventures, which orchestrates extreme horseback trips in Mongolia and Argentina. He highlights activities such as hunting with eagles, riding reindeer with remote tribes, and leading cattle roundups in gaucho-style excursions. Additionally, Eric oversees operations, marketing, and training for prestigious horse races like the Mongol Derby.

Warwick reminisces about meeting Eric at the Gaucho Derby Academy in Argentina, noting, “It was serendipitous that we were recording this right now because it's exactly 12 months since the day I finished the Gaucho Derby in Argentina, which Eric Cooper did.”

Motivation to Join the Mongol Derby

When asked about his inspiration to compete in the Mongol Derby, Eric reflects on his deep-rooted love for horses and his desire to push his limits:

“I was born on a horse farm in the Midwest, and I'm just horse crazy. I love everything about horses...” [07:58]

Initially hesitant about leaving his comfort zone, Eric overcame fears and committed to the grueling 10-day race through Mongolia's rugged terrain. This decision marked a significant turning point, pushing him beyond his perceived limitations and fostering immense personal growth.

Challenges and Scary Moments in the Mongol Derby

Eric candidly shares some of the most harrowing moments from his first Mongol Derby:

“I felt like I was good on horses, and I could really understand the animals, but... I really needed that humbleness...” [11:44]

One particularly frightening incident involved his horse bolting in a storm, leaving him disoriented and struggling to regain control:

“He was slippering and sliding in the mud, but never once fell down. One of the crew trucks came up to me, was like, are you okay?” [12:52]

Another tragic moment was witnessing a fellow racer crash and suffer a broken neck, underscoring the race's inherent dangers:

“...another guy that broke his neck that was riding with us. He became a lawn dart and landed on his face...” [20:05]

These experiences not only tested Eric's resilience but also emphasized the importance of teamwork and self-reliance in extreme situations.

Personal Impact and Transition to Adventure Travel

Completing the Mongol Derby left Eric grappling with profound changes. He describes a period of depression and existential questioning:

“I was just in a weird zombie state... trying to figure out what just happened to me...” [32:30]

To navigate this challenging phase, Eric reevaluated his relationships and career path. He shifted towards adventure travel, focusing on authentic, culturally immersive experiences. This transition led him to establish his own travel company, enabling him to explore remote regions and form meaningful connections with indigenous communities.

Managing the Gaucho Derby and Rescue Operations

As the event manager for the Gaucho Derby, Eric recounts managing unexpected crises, such as a blizzard that endangered participants:

“We had a blizzard happen, like day two... everybody almost died of hypothermia...” [47:55]

In a heroic act, Eric rescued a fellow racer suffering from kidney failure, demonstrating his leadership and compassion under pressure. This incident reinforced his commitment to ensuring the safety and well-being of all participants.

Immersing in Mongolian Culture: Eagle Hunters and Reindeer People

Eric provides an insightful exploration into Mongolian traditions, particularly focusing on eagle hunting and the lives of reindeer herders. He explains how he built trust with these communities, highlighting the blend of Islamic and shamanistic beliefs:

“Mongolia is gorgeous, but for me, travel is about personality. Like, who are the personalities I'm here for?” [54:09]

His adventures include training with traditional eagle hunters, participating in nomadic games, and living among reindeer herders. Eric emphasizes the cultural richness and spiritual depth of these experiences, which offer profound lessons in humility and respect for nature.

Future Endeavors and Reflecting on Personal Growth

Looking ahead, Eric discusses his plans to continue expanding his adventure travel offerings, incorporating wellness elements and further immersing participants in authentic cultural practices. He also touches on personal projects, such as writing a children's book titled “The Adventures of Nicholas the Ridiculous,” reflecting his desire to share his experiences creatively.

Warwick commends Eric’s dedication to personal and communal growth:

“Everyone's important at the end of the day. So this life pushes me to do that and try to be better at it...” [102:45]

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Eric sharing ways for listeners to connect with his adventures, primarily through his Instagram handle @ericcooperadventurous. Warwick praises Eric's unwavering spirit and positive energy, encouraging listeners to embrace their own journeys with curiosity and resilience.

“If you have Instagram, come over to my Instagram...” [109:22]

Notable Quotes

• "I was just in a weird zombie state... trying to figure out what just happened to me." — Eric Cooper [32:30]
• "This is his house. He knows where he's going. That's so, so, so hard for us to let go of control and trust something else." — Eric Cooper [15:28]
• "We ride across private land... building that trust to be able to get the best that we can get." — Eric Cooper [105:04]

Key Takeaways

• Resilience and Personal Growth: Eric's journey through extreme races and adventure travel underscores the importance of pushing one's limits and embracing vulnerability.
• Cultural Immersion: Deep engagement with Mongolian traditions offers valuable lessons in humility, respect, and the interconnectedness of humanity and nature.
• Authentic Leadership: Eric exemplifies compassionate leadership, prioritizing the well-being of others and fostering strong, trust-based relationships.
• Continuous Evolution: Embracing change and seeking new challenges are central to Eric's philosophy, encouraging listeners to pursue their passions relentlessly.

This episode is a testament to the transformative power of adventure and the profound impact of connecting deeply with both nature and diverse cultures. Whether you're an avid horse enthusiast or simply seeking inspiration for your own journey, Eric Cooper's story is both enlightening and motivating.

Transcript

[Eric Cooper]

Journey on Magic lies within the trails we ride. You're listening to the Journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warrick is a horseman, trainer, international clinician and author who helps empower horse people from all over the world with the.

[Warwick Schiller]

Skills, knowledge and mindsets needed to create.

[Eric Cooper]

Trusting partnerships with their horses. Warrick offers a free seven day trial to his comprehensive online video library that includes hundreds of full length training videos and several home Study courses at videos warwickshiller.com.

[Warwick Schiller]

G'day everyone. Welcome back to the Journey on Podcast. I'm your host Warwick Schiller and my very special guest this week is none other than adventurer Eric Cooper. So Eric, I met him when I went to Argentina for the Gaucho Derby Academy and it's quite serendipitous that they we're recording this right now because it's, right now it's 12, exactly 12 months since the day I finished the Gaucho Derby in Argentina, which Eric Cruz for. So Eric cruise for the the Gaucho Derby, also cruise for the Mongol Derby. And Eric also runs other adventures around the world including taking people to northwest Mongolia to stay and ride with the eagle hunters in Mongolia. So Eric grew up on a horse farm in a small town of Missouri. He always wanted to explore and his love of horses was just as strong as his sense of adventure. At 24, he heard about the Mongol Derby which if you don't know what that is, It's a grueling 10 day horse race through the rough terrain of rural Mongolia known as the toughest horse race in the world. The Mongol Derby changed Eric in ways he never expected it too. So it was so good to catch up with Eric and here his whole story about how we got into such an adventurous lifestyle. So I hope you guys enjoy this conversation with Eric as as much as I did. But before we get to our next guest, I want to tell you guys about our new Journey on Podcast courses. You know we have a podcast summit every year where we have the guests come and present over three days and the feedback from that has been absolutely amazing. And my wife Ro Robin thought wouldn't it be a great idea if we could get these guys to do some sort of an online course where people could dive deeper into each of the podcast guests area of expertise. And so at the moment we have 11 of these journey on Podcast courses. We have one from Heather Lucas called Rewilding. Carla Buckmuller does one on the Writer's Breath Unlocking the Power of Proper Breathing. Jamin Fraser from Australia does one called Unhindered. My wife Robin does one called reset your nervous system, reset your life. Hannah Paz Quinzo does one called mindful mornings. Everybody's favorite astrologer, Denise Elizabeth Byron does one called flow with the changes. Pete and Louisa Brendel do one on long riding explained. So it's videos on how to long ride if you want to do what they're doing. Super Guini does one called light your life on fire. Shalin Harkin does one called the genie within and Kathy woods does one on mindfulness and horsemanship. And also Emily K. Does one on if you've listened to her podcast episode and she talked about the Hashemite horses which fascinated me, she does one called the seven lines the teaching of the Jordanian Hashemite horses. And so I can't I it's a four part zoom series and I cannot wait to listen to that one. But yeah, if you guys are interested in doing a bit more of a deep dive into any one of these podcast guests, these courses are great. They're exclusive so you can't get these information, these courses anywhere else and all you have to do is go to courses.warwickshiller.com and you can get started on those. Eric Cooper, welcome to the Journey on podcast.

[Eric Cooper]

Thanks for having me.

[Warwick Schiller]

Hey, it's good to have you here. So why don't we, before we even get anywhere, why don't we start out and, and tell everybody exactly what do you, what do you do these days? And then we're going to unravel how the hell you got to doing that from where you came from.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, it's, it's like hard to explain, but I'll break it down in two separate places. Basically I have my own adventure adventure travel company, Eric Cooper Adventures that I run some pretty extreme horseback adventure trips in Mongolia and also in Argentina. And so in Mongolia we learn to hunt with eagles, we ride reindeer with a very remote tribe and do several other kind of horse based adventures there. And then I have trips here working with the stances, doing cattle roundups and different types of gaucho style trips in Argentina. And then I also lead operations, marketing, sales, all the things for the equestrianists. And we have the world's toughest horse races, the Gaussian Derby, the Mongol Derby and then we also have academies where we teach people how to participate in those events for both of the events.

[Warwick Schiller]

And you're currently in El Calafate, Argentina for the Gacha Derby Academy, which starts once it start next week?

[Eric Cooper]

Yep, next week starts on the 22nd, so.

[Warwick Schiller]

Wow. That takes me back because it was two years ago where I met you there when I went down for the Academy, you know, the year before I actually did the. Did the Gacha Derby.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, we had a good time. We did have a good time. We were in the same group, our little group, chasing after the horses all over the place.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. So the Academy is set up to. One of the things it does is if someone wants to do the Gaucho Derby, you get to go down there and experience a bit of it firsthand before you do the. Probably the year before you do the Gaucho Derby. Do you. How many. What's the percentage of people that do the Academy that actually do the Gaucho Derby? And some people just do the Academy to experience that without having to do the race.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, I'd say probably about 30, 30, 35% come and do the Academy and then come and do the race. I mean, it's relatively new, the race and the Academy. It's only been four years. But this year's Academy, it looks like we have a lot more people that want to do the race in the future that are coming, but we. We have a mix that. That comes with. Some people just want to do the Academy to learn a new skill, be on horseback, not do something to her super touristy. And other people, you know, like yourself and other people that race are just coming down being like, how do I navigate? How do I use these devices? Like, let me get really comfortable with what I'm about to do and do this academy. So you go in, better prepare for the race.

[Warwick Schiller]

How long. So how long's the equestrian been doing the Mongol Derby? Because I know the Gaucho Derby has only been going for four years now, so.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, the Mongol Derby since 2010, I think. So. Over a decade. A long time. Yeah. I raised.

[Warwick Schiller]

And how long have you been. How long have you been involved with the equestrianist?

[Eric Cooper]

It's. I. Well, I raced in the mongol Derby in 2012, and then I started working for them in 2014.

[Warwick Schiller]

Ah, so you did the. You're like, Stevie, you did the race first.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

So what. What led you to. Yeah, what. What led you to do the. To be inspired to compete in the Mongol Derby?

[Eric Cooper]

For me, it. I was born on a horse farm in the Midwest, and I'm just. I'm horse crazy. Like, I love everything horses, and I always thought I was a pretty good rider and could really read any kind of horse, but I never really pushed myself in the equestrian World, I just did it for fun. And, you know, I pretty much was on my horse all day, every day when I was growing up. And then when I was 18, I moved to New York City and went to college there. And then horses were completely absent from my life. And fast forward to I was living between New York and LA for work, and I wanted to do something that would make me get physically fit. And I hate the gym. I hate working out. I like to sleep. I like to nap and lay down. So. But I was like, eric, you've gotta kick your own ass and get yourself in shape. So I was gonna do, like, a tough mudder or something like that. And I was hitting up other friends. Can you guys, like, let's do something physical together? Like, let's have a goal that we have to work towards. And then one of my. My two high school buddies actually hit me up and said, hey, there's this company called the Adventurous. We were the Adventurous back then that has this moto taxi race across Peru. And I was like, I don't know anything about motorcycles at that time, but I know people really well. So, like, I can problem solve you guys, fix the car, fix the motorcycle, whatever. And we were going to do that. And then I started looking at all the other events, and I saw the Mongol Derby. So longest, toughest horses in the world across Mongolia. And I think all of us, you know, horse people know Mongolia is like the kingdom of the horse. And, you know, it's kind of this fantasy land that, you know, exists, but it's not tangible. So I saw that, and I was like, screw it, I'm going to apply. And if I get a spot, like, I think I got to do this. And so I went through the interview process. I ended up getting the spot. And then I had to tell my buddies, hey, guys, I'm choosing horses over motorcycles is cool with you. But they grew up with me in high school. They know that I'm from a horse farm. And they're like, eric, that's your thing.

[Warwick Schiller]

We know.

[Eric Cooper]

Go do it. We can do this any day. And so, boom, I entered the Mongol Derby, and I was kind of like, I felt like I was good on horses, and I could really understand the animals, but. And so I wanted to push it. And I was like, let's go zero to a thousand here and see if we. If we got it. But I think all of us, like, if it's one thing that's so close to you, you're so passionate about it, you really don't want to Fail at that one thing that is like your kind of heart and soul, because it's really defeating, you know, And I never, I think, pushed it for that reason because I was like, oh, I don't want to go against people that are better than me and this. And other than. I feel like I suck at the one thing that I love. And so it was a come to Jesus moment, was like, okay, you got to push it, then get better. And so that was my reason for doing it. I was just like, let's see what you're made of. Let's see if you can handle the horses, Eric. Like, let's go for it. So I trained pretty hardcore to get ready for it. And I think as you can probably relate to training for the Gauche Derby, it really humbles you in a lot of ways, but it also, you have. The training is, I feel like, bigger than the race. You know, your. Your brains are going crazy trying to figure out gear and what is this foreign country, like, what are the horses like, all these things. So, yeah, so I did the Mongol Derby, survived it and didn't know how to navigate with the. So went a lot of circles, but handled the horses really well. So I was proud of, like, the training aspect. I definitely, you know, got my ass handed to me numerous times, but I think I really needed that humbleness to be like, all right, boy, like, get your shit together and this is where you're weak. Own it, you know, and go along. So that's. Yeah, that was my Mongol Derby story, basically.

[Warwick Schiller]

What. What weaknesses did you find?

[Eric Cooper]

I don't know how to navigate. I could definitely handle the horses, but I was afraid. I was afraid with some of the horses that I had to ride. And it wasn't for lack of skill. It was just pure. Like, this shit's scary. You know what I mean? It's like I'm being taken away. Like, I've never felt that unconfident on a horse before. And I just grew up with horses, you know, I think maybe being young and stupid, you just roll with it, but then once you're a bit older, you're just like, this is dangerous. And so a lot of those moments where I was like, half of me was saying, eric, you got this. The other half was saying, we don't got this, you know, jump off. And then I was like, I can't jump off. It's got all my survival kit on it. I gotta stay on here. And I think that was a really moment for growth, you know, where it's like, if we were back in the States. I would have jumped off the horse. I'm like, no, I don't gotta control this thing. But I'm like, if I jump off, I'm out of the race. I have no sleeping bag. I have no survival kit. So I was like, we're. We gotta dig deep and just hang on. And we're not in control, but what's gonna happen?

[Warwick Schiller]

So the jump, the jumping off, was the horse bucking or bolting?

[Eric Cooper]

No, he's bolting.

[Warwick Schiller]

Like, yeah. So if you guys who have not. I wouldn't do the Mongol Derby. But seeing some of the footage from the Mongol Derby, you get on these horses and they go, but they're not going. There's a horse. A horse can be galloping and relaxed at the same time, receptive to input. I've seen some footage of these to where these horses. It's like they're running blind. Like, yeah, that's scary. It's scary to watch. Like, I've seen some footage of people get on a horse at a horse station and zoom off past the camera, and you can tell there is no control. Actually, I experienced it on the Academy when we went. We went and rounded the horses up on the Academy. I was with Sergio, the owner of the Estanzia. But we took off after this herd of horses, and my horse had been good up till then, and then I realized, oh, I can't steer, I can't slow down, I can't change directions. And he wasn't in that mad boat like the ones in the Mongol Derby. But I still knew, like, I've just gotta go where he goes and not get in his way, because otherwise you make a. You're gonna create a wreck, you know?

[Eric Cooper]

Exactly. I think the coolest thing about. Even with the fear with the Mongolian horses, because now I ride them most of my year. It's like, the thing I just. I just absolutely love is that they want to do it. And they have this. They almost have. Their hooves are like hands. Like, once you get one that's like, you know, just wants to do it. They're just primal. They just eat it up. And it is about, like, I don't need to be in control. Like, this is his house. He knows where he's going. That's so, so, so hard for us to let go of control and trust something else, that something else might know better than we do, you know? And it's taught me a lot because I'm a type A personality. So it's like, I like to be in Control. But in Mongolia, it's like she will humble you time and time again if you act like that. But, but I love, like, if I could ride any horse for the rest of my life, it's Mongolian horse and it's. And people think it's crazy because they're small and, you know, some people call them ponies, but I'm like, they're just a horse and that's what they are. And they're so brave, you know, athletic and just, they're insane. I mean, there's a reason Genghis Han conquered most of the world because he had these horses, you know.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. So was your, what was your scariest or wildest moment when you did the Mongol Derby? Because, I mean, yeah, you can, I'll get you some stories to tell you, some stories about things you've seen while crewing the Mongol Derby. But on your maiden voyage, what was the, you know, because I've talked, you know, like, Chloe Phillips Harris was on the podcast telling me about, you know, pack of dogs trying to drag her off a horse or drag a horse down and getting stuck in bogs and all that sort of stuff. What was your scariest moment?

[Eric Cooper]

I think my scariest was like, I never really left America before. Like, I'm a small. Even though I lived between New York and la, like, where I'm from is small town, middle America. Like, it's very ingrained in your brains that you don't leave where you're from. And so I moved to New York when I was 18 and it seems like maybe I'd be this well traveled person, but I wasn't because I still had this weird mental block of, you don't leave your country. Which is so weird to say, considering my life now. But I never left. I never, I don't say had the desire, but I just never left. So then fast forward to getting the Mongol Derby and I'm like, okay, so this is my first travel experience outside of America is like, I'm in the middle of Mongolia and here I am on the world's toughest horse race. Okay, let's go. And so it was the start of the race where, you know, we arrived into the first horse station and I was learning Mongolia, Mongolian. I like learning languages. And I learned how to ask for, you know, humding. Samaroku means give me the best horse you have. And so I, I went to the horse station, I, I cleared the vet check. I went to this kid and said, you know, hey, I'm G. Samovich. And he's like, okay, come over here. And he shows me this horse in the line. It was like pouring rain, lightning all over the place. And he pulls out this horse and I'm like, it doesn't look. It doesn't look special to me. Like, it doesn't look like a racehorse. Like, I don't know, but it had a little, like, clip, like slit ear. And Mongolians always do something for like, the special ones that make it stand out. But I didn't realize at the time, I just thought, the scraggly looking horse, this is the best one. And he was like, you know, come on, get on it. So I got on it. I'm with some people I decided to ride with, and me and my teammates are leaving the station and he's just trying to go. He's just trying to go. Well, I never turned my GPS on before I got to Mongolia. I just thought, I'll team up with people that know how to navigate. I trained the whole time on how to ride, you know, wild Spanish mustangs and things like that. Like, I was so horse heavy on my training and physical that I didn't. I just thought, I'll figure out the GPS later. And so I had to stay with these guys because I was like, I don't know where I'm going, you know. And so they were like, Eric, like, they tried to make like a little wall of their horse. It was four of us riding together, try to make a wall of their horses in front of me, and my horse is just climbing over top of their horses. And I was like, I don't know, somebody maybe try to, like, pony me a little bit. Maybe he'll calm down, you know, race horse. Maybe he's thinking, you know, he'll have his lead horse. Nah, he was like taking off anything that moved. He was ready to go. And he started rearing and acting crazy. And I was like, great. Here I am in the freaking mud, lightning, rain, my first day of this race. I was like, and I've got to let him go. And they're like, what? I was like, guys, I gotta let him go. And they're like, well, you don't know where you're going. I was like, I know, but this horse has to go. He's like, got all the energy and he just can't sit here with you guys unless, you know, just let me go and tell me which direction. Because at this point, it's still early in the race. So I thought maybe you can see other riders, you know, still. So I just said, okay, you want to Go, go. You know, and he went. He flew. And he was slippering and sliding in the mud, but never once fell down. One of the crew trucks came up next to me, was like, are you okay? And I was like, get away from me, because anything that's moving, he raced a bird. You know, it's just like, everybody just get back. And I. I saw these two girls, Jesse and Lucy. And I was like, guys, like, which way are you going? Where's. Tell me which direction to bolt to. And they were like, eric, that mountain over there. And I was like, up there. And then I turn him around and bolt him back towards the girls. And so we kind of made our way into the station like that. But it was just so scary because I was like, I don't know where I'm going. At one stage, I lost him, and I thought I was in China, you know, And I was just like, what the am I doing here? Why did I come to this thing in day one? I don't even have my shit together, so. And lesson is, be careful what you ask for. So that was. That was probably the scariest. One of the scariest moments. And we had another guy that broke his neck that was riding with us. And that was another scary moment.

[Warwick Schiller]

But how did that happen?

[Eric Cooper]

He. Yeah. Got thrown off his horse and became a lawn dart and landed on his face and. Yeah. Broke his neck. And it's. There's a movie called all the Wild Horses that's a documentary on the Mungo Derby. And you can see that moment in there. It's pretty. It's pretty intense. And I think, like, that was a specific moment when nothing happens to you. You're pretty naive, you know, and you just think, you know. You only know what you know. Right. So when I was with that dude that broke his neck, I was like, wow, this is like when you go to the zoo and you sign the waiver. If the orangutan, you know, pulls me in the pen and has its way with me, I'm not going to sue you. But I'm like, we're on the orangutan, people. Like, it's just a matter of time before something happens. So when that became the reality where it was like, wow, we are so remote and help is so far away. It made me feel a lot more cautious, you know, it's like, we really have to depend on ourselves, you know, out here, because it took the crew forever, you know, to get to him and to get to us. But it also taught you about your own humanity and the group you're in to look out for each other and how you can problem solve situations yourselves. Where a lot of times, you know, in our society, we're so quick to press the help button instead of take a moment, calm down, pause, and be like, what skill set do you have that maybe you can use towards this situation? Even if you don't think, even if you aren't a medic, even if you aren't this. What is your strength and your personality or things, you know, and with the four of us, we teamwork to, you know, calm the horses down to, you know, look out for the broken neck to hold him, you know, you know, until the Maddox could arrive. So it's just the race is not just the race as, you know, like all these races are. So it's just a journey and. And it's rough. And it's rough.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. They're not exactly what you think they are. All the wild horses. Where can people see that? I'd love to watch that.

[Eric Cooper]

I believe it's on. I believe you can rent it on YouTube still. It was on Hulu and I believe you can rent it on YouTube. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay.

[Eric Cooper]

Excuse me complaining throughout the. The movie, though.

[Warwick Schiller]

This was. But this was your inaugural gaucho dude. I mean, Mongol dead. Yeah, well, we're going to get to it later. But you've actually heard me complain a little bit on.

[Eric Cooper]

I can have the energy for it because I was you before.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, you're on the receiving end of some loud, obnoxious complaining, so I want to back up a bit. You're born in the Midwest. Where were you born?

[Eric Cooper]

I was born in Troy, Missouri.

[Warwick Schiller]

Missouri. Yeah, I've been in Missouri. I actually call it Missouri.

[Eric Cooper]

But you love it.

[Warwick Schiller]

I did a clinic in Missouri and it was the coldest clinic I've ever done.

[Eric Cooper]

Oh, did you?

[Warwick Schiller]

It was in March, but it was. It was nasty cold. So you grew up in a. What was it? A. You said a horse farm. What were the horses?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, we raised Arabians, Arabian saddle horses growing up and had a farm, you know, chickens, goats, the whole barnyard. So, yeah, my. My parents met at a horse stable and then they had five kids and I'm the only kid that likes horses. So yeah, I had full reign of the horses, so it was pretty fun.

[Warwick Schiller]

You know, it sounds like you're from what you mentioned before, you're growing up when you say, you know, you don't leave there where you're born sort of thing. You know, in my experience, I grew up in a small town in Australia and the. The. I don't know if it's the culture, but the way you look at life is, okay, you go to school so you can get a job. You get a job, then you get married, then you have kids, you get a house, then you die. That's basically how it goes. And you said. And there's a country song, and I can't remember who it's by, maybe by Kenny Chesney, but it's called Small Town, and. And it. There's a line, and it says, it'll either hold you back or it'll hold you down, meaning it'll hold you back means it'll keep you there. Or the other line, it'll hold you down. Like, no, there's more to life than this. And you and I both sound like we. We thought there was more to life than. Than that small country town. You mentioned you went to New York. What did you go to New York to do?

[Eric Cooper]

I went to New York to get out of the small town. It's. It happened, like, right after 9. 11, too. So it was pretty dramatic of a decision to go. Not just to leave the town and go into the city, but for the city. I was going to, but. But I just wanted something more. I won't even say it was school. School was my way to get there kind of thing.

[Warwick Schiller]

They went to school in New York?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. Yeah, I went to school.

[Warwick Schiller]

What did you study at school?

[Eric Cooper]

I studied marketing.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, cool.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Awesome. So you ended up. You know, a lot of times people I have in the podcast, they get a degree in something and life takes a turn and they're doing something completely different. But you were. It's almost like you got set up to be doing what you're doing now with that. That marketing degree.

[Eric Cooper]

Well, I feel like for the school, it might sound cynical, but it's like, I feel like it was just a catalyst to get me there, and I had to major in something that I was passionate about. But the thing that I learned the most, my biggest takeaway from being in school is my. My internships and being in a city that's, like, the top of their game, because I learned so much more outside of the classroom and being in, like, I worked in celebrity pr, corporate pr, you know, sports marketing for Adidas, intern for, you know, casting, and anything and everything related to media and marketing. I was out there with, like, real companies and starting from, you know, internship level and trying to work my way up. And you just learn so much by, you know, you work for free. But being with the people who make you feel insecure and, and push you. I think I learned just so much from being in a city that's competitive and I, you know, I had to go to school there because I know other like how else was I going to go there? Just move there? Like that sounds crazy but maybe I should have just done that. But yeah, so those are the things that I, that I was doing while I was in New York, which is pretty cool. And yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

And then you mentioned you went to la. What, what led you to la?

[Eric Cooper]

I was doing some. They're hidden now, but I was doing some acting things.

[Warwick Schiller]

Really? Tell us about that. How did you get into that?

[Eric Cooper]

Embarrassing. I was like 27 and, and doing like 16 year old roles on little Nickelodeon things and stuff. So it just got really awkward because I, I have a little facial hair now but I had a baby, I have a baby face. And even at 27 I was still playing 16 year olds and 17 year olds and I was like, okay, this is just weird because the other people were kids and I'm like, it's just a little creepy. But yeah, so I was doing that and that's what I was doing before I got into the, you know, commercials and things like that. Before I got into the muggle derby, I just kind of got tired of it, wanting to do something else. So not saying I was hugely successful, but I was able to make a couple bucks so it was nice.

[Warwick Schiller]

Were you acting in New York before you went to la?

[Eric Cooper]

I did like commercials and some smaller like TV show stuff but it wasn't my priority what I was doing there. I was doing sports marketing for Adidas.

[Warwick Schiller]

So what sports marketing for Adidas look like?

[Eric Cooper]

It's like I traveled across the US and say we had a new like soccer shoe or new running shoe or some new product that was coming out. I was traveling with the team and we were training each store on how to sell the product. What it's what's good, what's different? Doing like grassroots marketing in certain neighborhoods? Yeah, all, all the things, but mainly product marketing for, for the company.

[Warwick Schiller]

And you also mentioned in New York you were doing. Was it celebrity marketing? Is that what you said?

[Eric Cooper]

Celebrity pr.

[Warwick Schiller]

Celebrity pr. Sorry, yeah. What, what were you doing there?

[Eric Cooper]

The funnest stuff. It was amazing. But I was, I was at the time interning for an agency called PMK bnc. So they rep like Zac Efron, Orlando Bloom, you know, I think even Britney Spears etc at the time. But like some A list celebrities and going to red carpet events like researching magazines, reporters, like articles, products, everything related to it. So deciding who got interviews, who didn't. I, I didn't necessarily get to decide those things, but I was on the team that did and working under people that did. So it was interesting just seeing how that whole process works. And then corporate client was Amex. So yeah, going to all events, deciding creative things that we could do as well. So it's pretty a fun job to have, especially while you're in college a bit.

[Warwick Schiller]

So what, what was the catalyst to, to move to la?

[Eric Cooper]

I just got tired of New York. As much as I say I love all these things, but I just, I don't know, I just was like, I'm. I've been in New York for, at the time, over 10 years. I end up living in New York for 16 and I just want to try something different and just go out there and some of the acting stuff is biting more in New York and I was like, why don't I just go out there if it seems like it's bigger and there's horses there so maybe I can go get more to the things that I, I also enjoy in addition to these things. So yeah, decided, let's go. And yeah, went out there and then was like, what am I doing here? Just trying to figure out who I am and what I want to do, you know, but taking the risk and the leap, you know, to go try the new things.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, so then you decided you wanted to stretch yourself. You did that first Mongol Derby. You finished, did you finish the race?

[Eric Cooper]

I was an adventure category, but I crossed on a horse at least, so that was the goal.

[Warwick Schiller]

Oh yeah. How did you end up in adventure category? So you guys listening at home? The both the Mongol Derby and the Gaucho Derby, they have the competitive categories of what it's called.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, it's like the like competitive category, which is official, official placing. And then if you don't make every horse station or maybe there's a carry forward or something, right.

[Warwick Schiller]

You don't finish the whole, all the race. You get into the adventure category, but you still can finish the race. So how did you end up in the adventure category?

[Eric Cooper]

I was with the guy that broke his neck and so we decided to stay and wait, wait with him. And it took all day essentially to get the help there. So we just kept falling further and further and further behind. But yeah, so then once help got there and we got him safe, we got moved up the course. So we didn't make all the stations, but it was, I wouldn't change anything that happened. Like, I made the decisions I wanted to make and. Yeah, so.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, well, at that point in time, staying to help somebody with a broken neck or going, no, I want to, I want to race. There's, there's no, there's no choice there. How, how is he now? Is he okay?

[Eric Cooper]

I don't talk to him. I think he still has a little bit of a twitch, but he, yeah, he can walk around and all that. Even by the end of the race, he came to the finish party with his doctor and his neck brace on, so. So I think you started recovering fairly.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, that's the. I bet that was a holy moment for you. You know, I remember when I went to the academy and this is, you know, this is all fun. We're having a good old time. And then the, the medical briefing day where the, you know, the medics started telling us the things that can go wrong. Like, you know, if someone gets backed off on a fence post and the post is impaling through them, what to do. Or the one where they said, if you find somebody on. Because, you know, for you guys listening at home, the medics tell you that when you're out there on the race, you need to be a first responder because it's so remote that if you come across a body laying on the ground, you've got to be able to help them out until such time like you with the broken neck guy, till help gets there. And they said, one of the things they said, if you find someone laying on the ground and their feet are pointing 180 degrees from each other, like east, west sort of thing, their toes are pointing out that way. They said, grab their feet and pull them together and duct tape their feet together. You know, so their big toes are touching. We're kind of like, why? And they said, because your body hold. How many liters of blood does your body hold? Seven liters. Is that what it is?

[Eric Cooper]

I don't know a lot.

[Warwick Schiller]

I forget what it was. But let's say it's, let's say it's seven liters. They said your body holds seven liters of blood. And if someone falls off and their feet are lying pointing east, west, they've got what they call a storybook, I think, or open book fracture of the pelvis. So their pelvis is cracked open and it creates a space in their pelvic bowl that they can bleed out into internally. So they could bleed out, but there's not a spot of blood on the ground. And when they told Us that the room, the room, like the temperature in the room dropped about 10 degrees. It's like, holy cow, we are in an inhospitable place. And you know, I don't think about impalements on fence posts or, you know, my mind doesn't. Doesn't go to worst case scenario type things. When they started presenting us with worst case scenario stuff, I'm like, whoa, shit's real.

[Eric Cooper]

That arena things gonna get you.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. Okay, so you've done your. You've done the Mongol Derby, you finished the Mongol Dirt. Are you in the adventure category? Do you go back to regular life after that? You go back to your marketing after that or were you. Or were you still doing the marketing at the time?

[Eric Cooper]

I was part time, but I got done. Yeah, got done with the race and then went back. I actually didn't even go back to la, I don't think. I think I went straight to New York and was like, you know, sold all my. Have my friends, sell my stuff in LA and my car, all that stuff. And then I moved back to New York and I just basically quit all of my jobs and everything I was doing because. And you might have had this happen to you, but I just had this like crazy depression kind of feeling is the best I can describe it where I was just like, nothing's real. What is real in this society we live in. It was like for 10 days I didn't have my phone. I was literally on a wild horses in a wild place with one sack of stuff to survive off of. And I had to use every single ounce of my person, like physical, mental, emotional. Like all your senses had to be like in such a high state of awareness for your own survival. And it was like a weird crazy drug. Like you don't even think of it as fun, but it's fun. And it's just like it's type two fun, right? Type two fun. And it just pushes you to a crazy level. And I think even getting ready for the race, you know, they're so expensive that you see who your friends group is. Like, who are your ride or dies, literally. Who are the people who have your back a million percent, financially, physically, emotionally. Like they're there for you and who surprised you and who disappointed you and who are you giving your time to. So it's just all these different things from the experience, the, the pre. You know, the. The production of it all, then the post and then you're just like, what just happened to me? Like, you're spit out the other side. You've been tore down, brought up. You've been having the time of your life and. Yeah, which is kind of like what happened to me. And I was in this weird zombie state that my friends have been like, eric, are you there? Like, hello? And I was like, I'm not here. Like, I'm like so off someplace else right now trying to figure out what just happened to me, you know, and more importantly, what do I do next?

[Warwick Schiller]

So, yeah, let's talk about that. Because, you know, before the, before it was probably the start day of the Gaucho Derby when I was on it, you know, Stevie Delahunt made a bit of a speech and she said, you don't. You don't get the Gacha Derby you want, you get the Gacho derby you need. But she also said something about it's always interesting to see pre race you versus post race you. So you guys have done it enough that you know that at the end of the race, the person is going to be permanently change. There's something that happens in these, these experiences that, that, that changes who you are and how you, how you perceive yourself and how you perceive the world. And that's, that's got to be kind of fun to. Because we didn't know that was going to happen. You didn't know it's going to happen. When you did the Mongol Derby, we didn't know it was going to happen. Even though Stevie dropped some pretty good hints at the start that was going to happen. We're like, what is she talking about? I bet that's been interesting over the years, seeing, seeing the whole thing unfold for people.

[Eric Cooper]

Well, it's a. I mean, from having obviously been in the writer's shoes really severely, you know, and also being in the adventure category, like, I've experienced every single realm personally. And so, you know, in my job, you know, for the Goucho Derby, designing the course, picking the horses like that, it's so difficult. So, so difficult because I'm not just thinking about, are they having fun? You know, I'm like, where are they broken? Where do they break at? Where is their story? Like, these are things I'm such an emotional kind of guy. And I'm so serious about the experience being what people need, you know, and knowing that I'm a complainer. I'm not somebody who's like, yeah, we'll just. It's roses all day. No, no, no, I'm gonna call it out. But so when I'm designing the course, I'm like, how much heat am I going to take for this decision, for this decision. And I can take it because I've been these people, you know, but it's really, I think that's probably the most exciting part of my job now is getting to decide what the experience is and getting to realize, yeah, there's a lot of risk here and what type of writers are going to respond to this? What type of humans are going to, you know, is this gonna make them dig deeper or is this going to be challenging for them? And where is the fun too? Like, where is that? Is it a view? Is it, you know, discovering a lost, you know, estancia that someone lived in and there's some curiosity about, you know, the humans that lived here. So for me, my job is so interesting now because I get to design this experience. But it's not just a horse race. And that's what I always hammer through. Like, it's not just a horse race. Like, this is such a journey. And there are these variables that are put in place that really make it test your humanity, it tests your horsemanship, it tests your survival skills. And it just tests, you know, can you also just have fun, you know, like in an intense moment, you know, where are these things throughout this course and do we have it? Do we not have it? You know, and who are our horse partners? Because I'm so obsessed with horses and, you know, I just love that part. I love who is my partner, who is this horse and you know, what makes them tick? What, you know, who are they? What can they do? What can they not do, you know, and that's all athletic abilities too, you know, because there's some in here that, you know, they aren't the race horses. They aren't, you know, the toughest, surest things. But I really enjoyed them for the animals that they are, you know, and then it really paints a lesson to the super competitive people to say, enjoy the horse. For the horse, you know, you might have to get off. You might have to support him and you should, you shouldn't just be on him the whole time. Like, I'm probably a bit of a baby. Like I'm off my horse a lot. Which you saw in that probably in the gaucho academy. Like, I don't push him until I have to. And yeah, it's just all these things with, with the event, with the experience that make it so much fun for me.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, I found on the gaucho derby that the places where we need. You're talking about steady, sure footed, athletic horses. I found on the Places that we really, really needed those, we had them. So the plateau of death and then the, the last day through all those ravines, those horses were mountain goats. And then the, the, the big long around that dry lake that just the hot, dusty day. They were the worst horses. They were the worst horses. And I'm glad it was flat and straight because we'd have died if we had to ride those horses. Well, a lot of actually those horses, a lot of time they weren't very fit at all. And we spent probably as much time walking those horses as we did, I mean leading them as we did riding them. And actually they would go faster if you led them than if you or riding them, you know. But yeah, the, the, the really sure footed ones were there when we needed them. And the places we didn't need sure footed horses, we didn't have sure footed horses. So that was kind of good. Okay, let's get back to Eric's story here. So you've done that, you've done a Mongol Derby, then you, you've gone back to New York. What's, what's next? Obviously this race has changed you permanently. Like you can't look at the world the same again. It was interesting. You said there was like a depression after it. I had a guy on the podcast named Philippe Masetti and he's a Canadian Brazilian dude. And he rode a horse from Calgary, Alberta to the middle of Brazil. So 10,000 miles on one trip. And then after that, once he, it's kind of like you're talking about. He fell into a really severe depression because of like, what, what's life like after you do something like that? And he ended up riding. He did a second trip from Brazil to the tip of Tierra de Fuego and then he did end up doing a third trip from Fairbanks, Alaska to Calgary, Alberta. So he's ridden a horse from Fairbanks, Alaska to Tierra de Fuego. Totally your kind of dude. But it's interesting that after something like that there can be a depressive episode because it's like, what is the meaning of life? You know? So tell us, tell us about that. What, how did you get through that and where did that lead you?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, I just decided for me, as a per, I changed my, my friend's circle that, you know, really helped me afford the race and just had like, I had friends that like one friend was unemployed, sold her bicycle to donate me money and maybe I didn't spend as much time with her as I should have. You know, it just really showed. Who is your Tribe, who are your. Who are your friends? So, number one, it was just like, who are my people? And I'm making a decision based, if I'm going to war, I better visualize each and every one of these people I give my person to. They give their person to. To stand up for each other, and that this is the circle people I have to be around. So it just. I started compartmentalizing things and saying, okay, who's your circle? Who are they? What do they bring to you? What do you give to them? You know? And then I was like, what's my job? What is earning me income? Like, is it flexible enough? Because now I've had this extreme experience. I want to keep going. Like, I don't want to just stop with this. And I need to go back to Mongolia because I just felt I need to get back there. I need to spend more time there. Like, it just fed my soul. And I. So I changed, quit my jobs, quit doing the acting thing, all that stuff. And I was like, I'm just gonna move back to New York, be here, hammer at home, work my ass off of flexible jobs. So I got a job, you know, managing a restaurant. I got another job being gear junkies New York office, which is like backpacker magazine, basically, but gear junkie reviews outdoor gear. So I became their New York office, you know, interviewing all the brands and, you know, doing that kind of stuff. And then I took up photography and was like, oh, shoot. He headshots for actors now that I know what I know. So I was like, how can I make the most money in the short, shortest period of time so then I can leave more and I can go have these kind of experiences. So after the derby, I would take off three months a year to come back to Mongolia and live in Mongolia and do my own travels there. I hired my own teams. And, you know, because once you do the derby, I'm like, I can't travel normally anymore. Like, the tour that you book online is just not going to cut it. And. Right. I was like, I want something that I can work on. So, yeah, I had the flexible job, this friend circle, and spent more time exploring Mongolia and hiring my own teams and trying to find the authenticity, you know, within travel, because I think a lot of it is very inauthentic and cookie cutter and very handheld, because it probably needs to be for a lot of people, but there's just nothing that's feeding this more adventurous spirit of people. So I would go back there, do that. I went to. I was living in the UAE For a while, living in South Africa for a while on during the U. S. Winters, and then even went to Myanmar to, like, the timber elephants. So everything became about animals and people and going to different cultures that have horses or various animals and just living with them and doing the real. Doing the real stuff. So seeing what are, you know, pushing the skill set. Like, okay, now I didn't really know how to navigate across Mongolia, but maybe I need to know how to navigate to this reindeer tribe or go to the eagle hunters. And how do I get them to trust me with their animals and how do I have the real experience? And you don't just show up and get that. You have to put your own person on the line and be, you know, truthful and trustworthy of them. So that's how I changed my life. And eventually people started seeing it online and on my Instagram. And I remember the first time somebody said, can I come with you? And I was like, well, hold on a second. I don't know if you can come with me. Like, then I have to be responsible for you. And this is my three months outside of New York craziness to, like, just be me and be wild and push it and be dangerous and risky. Because with this travel comes risk. But that's the sexiness in it, you know, like, if everybody can do it, I don't want to do it. I'm bored of it. So now that people started saying, can I come too? I was like, I don't know. Can you come? Like, do I want you to come? So then I started with a small group of friends that I knew wouldn't, you know, kick my ass if something went wrong and say, okay, you can come with me, but we gotta roll with the punches because we're in Mongolia and stuff doesn't operate like it does in the States or wherever they were from. And then it just started growing. I loved it. I love seeing people see things that I've seen that have now become, you know, normal for me. I love to see the surprise, love to see just the excitement. And. Yeah. So I started travel company and then started growing it, bringing, you know, more and more people to different places. And they just all told their friends they had a great time and what it was. And then fast forward to, what was it, 2018. I was like, maybe I can do this full time and I don't have to be in New York City. Maybe I can just be a nomad and go where I feel good, you know, End of story. Where I feel good, where I Feel, feel curious. And so 2018 was like my biggest year for my own travel business. And then 2019 was even bigger and obviously Covid freaking put the brakes on me real hard. But now we're back. So that's how it happened. And then I came to Argentina and I did the pioneer run as an event manager.

[Warwick Schiller]

Tell us. Tell us about the. Tell us about the Pioneer run of the Gaucho Derby, because it was a bit of a shit show, wasn't it?

[Eric Cooper]

It was crazy. Yeah. We had a blizzard happen, like day two, and I was the only event manager out in the field in the mountains with all the riders and having never been here before. And yeah, everybody almost died of hypothermia, like, seriously. Because a blizzard came in and people hadn't made it to safe campsites. A lot of people had done the Mongol Derby and I think they were very used to, you know, the Mongolians are amazing and they will save you. They will save your ass time and time again. And here in Argentina, they. They ain't here. So it's really. You're by yourself out there with the people you're riding with. And so, yeah, a freak storm came in over the mountains and it turned into a blizzard. I rescued one girl, my friend Roberta, who had kidney failure. We didn't know she had kidney failure at the time. We just knew she pressed sos So I rescued her with the photographers I was with and then it was maybe three.

[Warwick Schiller]

So tell us about. Tell us about rescuing her. What does that entail?

[Eric Cooper]

Just finding her, putting her on. Like I was talking about before, I walk on. You know, I walk on the ground a lot when I'm working on the Gaucher Derby because I need to save my horse. Yeah, because for instance, like this, like, you need to if you're an event manager, if you're one of the crew, you have got. Your horse has got to be as fresh as possible at all times because you never know when you're going to need it and need to, you know, get it in a high gear. So her horse is retired. I gave her my horse, I took hers, and she was able to blast the hat and get to a forest where we all end up rendezvousing before the storm and we make camp there. So that was just HQ sends me a notice and says, hey, there's a help call on my inreach. Here's the coordinates. They tell me the rider's call sign. I knew it was Roberto, who's one of my friends. And so I was like, oh, she's really tough. If she's pressing help, then something's got to be wrong. So yeah, we got to her. She was leaning up against a rock. She's like, I don't feel good. I was like, can you get on my horse? She could. She went ahead. But then now come 3am in the morning, I felt my tent was caving in and I was like. And I was riding a big ass perch on horse, right? So I was like, is this who's very cuddly? So I was like, is he sitting on my tent? And so I went to like slap his ass to be like, get boy, get off of my house. You know. And then and I heard snowfall and I was like, oh my God, is that snow? I unzip my tent and you know our tents we have at the Galter small. And so I said, but I set my little head out. I was like. I looked at Roberta's tent, she just had this like lean to thing and she was buried, she had, it was all snow, you know, you could just see the headboard. And I was like, birdie, are you alive? She was like, what, what's going on? I was like, you have got to get out of that tent, get inside with me. So she got out of hers, came in with me and then we woke up at on 7:00. And then snow everywhere. And then fast forward I told hq, hey, this is the situation on the mountain. Here's my camp. I'm in the shelter, these trees. Send all the riders to me and we'll get a fire going and you know, we'll do a race hold until everybody can get get caught back up. But then as the riders came, we saw so many riders with snow comes, you know, that kind of morning condensation or the, you know, condensation snow. So everybody's gear got wet. Okay, so everybody's wet and cold, which is the worst and also dangerous. So we spent, you know, people came in, we had I think 14 riders at my camp and we were trying to get the medics out. We couldn't get a helicopter because of the blizzard. And we set up, you know, I took my little gas stove and took some vaseline from someone they were using to anti chafe their ass crack and some toilet paper from some other girls and made wicks all over a stack of wood that was wet and put the blowtorch in there and just started drying people's stuff and ended up being a full day event. But we got everybody like warmed up, all their stuff dry. We had a soup A soup tent. Roberto, with the kidney failure, was making people soup. So it was crazy. Then the medics and stuff finally got there about midnight that night, and then everybody was stabilized. But the next day it was, of course, sunny, beautiful skies, and all the snow is almost melted. And it's like, did this even really happen? But then the helicopter came and anyone that was, you know, semi at risk the night before just got sent to Calafate for a checkup, just, you know, protocol, just in case. And the rest of us rode out and made it to the next station. And then after that, the rest of the, you know, pine was fine. But it's like the first two days, crazy.

[Warwick Schiller]

The kidney failure, was that anything to do with the race or.

[Eric Cooper]

It was like a pre existing thing that. Okay, yeah, you know, just kind of got worse from the stress of the. Of the race, of doing it. So. Yeah, but she's fine now. She recovered and she's great. She's hardcore. She did the Mongol Derby back in the day, so she's. Yeah, one of my close friends. She's. She's hardcore tough person. So when I was like, she needs help.

[Warwick Schiller]

So where we're in the race and you said it was day two, but like, in our. The race, I did. What mountain was that on? Did we go?

[Eric Cooper]

You guys didn't do that one because I changed the course because I was like, that's. I have a trauma over there. So. So we changed that. There was a lot of bugs. There was a lot of things over there that we changed. You had to ride through a lake to get to the other side. So, yeah, we changed that part.

[Warwick Schiller]

Wow. Thank you for changing that. I didn't really want to be helicoptered off a. Off a mountain. So tell me about what, you know, if you think about what you do with your, you know, adventure company, you go to some really remote places with some really nomadic people and you can't. There isn't a website to go, hey, introduce me to the. To the eagle hunters in Mongolia. How did you say the eagle hunters? How did you. Because you said you. You met them and you got them to where they trust you with their horses and then trust you to bring people. How did you start those relationships? How did you. What was your introduction to the eagle people?

[Eric Cooper]

It was basically. I knew it. I found a dude from the Peace Corps that was living in West Mongolia, and he was my essentially connector into that world. And so he didn't ride horses or anything, but he was like, hey, I know a guy and that's how it started and then showed up. And I'm a very excitable person. I want to get right into it, you know what I mean? But they were like, hold on, hold on. You ain't just grabbing the eagle and going up on the mountain, Are you crazy? So it's like, I was like, but I work with horses. And this other. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So then we ended up riding horses with them and riding the racehorses and, you know, just helping out around. They. They were farming potatoes at the time. So just living with them, helping, showing, hey, this is. I can ride horses, this is what I do. Etc, and just being, you know, calming myself down from the excitement and just being like, they don't even know who the hell you are. You're just showing up here, trying to get the, you know, the pinnacle thing. So it started with that and then eventually they were like, they had some falcons at the time, and they're like, oh, you know, let's handle the falcons together and stuff. And then eventually I was like, just learning how to handle the. I mean, the eagles are huge. They're like, you know, 15 kgs. They're massive. So it's like you're not just jumping on a horse, grabbing an eagle and flapping around on top of a mountain without knowing what the hell you're doing, you know, so did that. And. And it's just. It's just insane, you know, I know it looks insane. It's insane that this culture exists. So I just, I just kept going back, you know, and trying to have more of an experience, more of a longer experience, trying to push, you know, the skill set. You're riding a horse and you have an eagle on your hand. Like, there's a lot of going on there. You know what I mean? Sometimes the horse doesn't get along, sometimes the eagle doesn't get along. They all have personalities. So, yeah, I just started going back, spending more time with them, pushing it more, seeing who the authentic people were at the same time. Because there is tourism in Mongolia, like with the eagle hunters, but a lot of it, they're not even real falconers. They're not even. They're just doing it for the tourism dollars. And they'll never even take the hood off the bird, you know, Is it like the.

[Warwick Schiller]

Is it like the guy that sits outside the. The stainless steel, steel Chingus Khan statue with the eagle and you can go ahead and get your picture taken.

[Eric Cooper]

Exactly. And you're just like, this isn't even real. Like, this is even Real number one, they're not taking care of their animals. So that's a big no no for me. So. But it's like, yeah, just finding what the real. What the real is in this world. Show me the. Show me the real eagle hunters. Show me the ones that eat, sleep, breathe this sport, this culture. Who are they and. And who is the person? Like, Mongolia is gorgeous, but for me, travel is about personality. Like, who are the personalities I'm here for? Like, who are these people and yeah, who are they? Or did they make me curious? And, you know, that's a part of my travel everywhere. I'm sure you experience on the gaucho, like, we hand pick these people because of who they are as people. You're in a beautiful Patagonia. But the personalities are making this place the animals and the people. So, yeah, I just kept going back and then again I was like, you know, maybe I can bring people to experience this, but they have to be respectful. They have to have some sort of talent with animals and they have to create the real stuff. So, yeah. And then we decided to do nomad games with my friends and the eagle hunters, and that's now a big part of the experience I do with them. Horse racing and archery and even a falconry competition we do to see how well you learn the skills working with the eagles. So it's just, it's insane. It feels like Game of Thrones.

[Warwick Schiller]

I just love sounds like it. So these, these, these are nomadic herders, you said they're growing potatoes, though?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. So not all of them. Some. The one family, they had a little stream and then they were growing potatoes. So I was like, well, this is pretty cool. They live in more of an arid place than most of the place in Mongolia, so they, they actually irrigate. So there's several canals in western Mongolia, like between all the, you know, in all the valleys where they open and close. It's just so cool. It's like something you don't ever see talked about about the culture, but it's such a part that I'm from a farm. So the farm boy in me is like, oh, they got some sort of agriculture here and they're doing irrigation, like a very, you know, prehistoric kind of level. But it works amazing.

[Warwick Schiller]

And what the herders, what do they heard? Do they have. Do they have camels? Do they have.

[Eric Cooper]

They have yaks. A ton of yaks. Yeah, yaks, sheeps and goats. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

So a lot of yak milk.

[Eric Cooper]

A lot of yak milk. A lot of yak butter. I love the yak butter. I'm a bit of an addict. Yeah, I didn't think I would be. I thought, okay. And then I ate it and I was like, damn, this is good. So.

[Warwick Schiller]

So what. Can you. Can you describe for us what. How yak butter tastes different than regular cow butter?

[Eric Cooper]

It's gonna sound weird, but it tastes tangy. But it's like. It's like this. It's. It. Yeah, it's like this tangy, salty. It's just so more. It's like, way more flavorful than regular butter. Because in Mongolia, like, the animals eat. I think it's like 36 different types of herbs. It's not even pure grass. It's herbs. So that's why everything has this, like, tinge to it, you know, or tang to it. Sometimes it's a good tang, sometimes it's a. What is that tang in my mouth? You know? So.

[Warwick Schiller]

And do they make. Do they ferment the milk and then end up making the vodka?

[Eric Cooper]

So the Kazakhs are Islamic, so they don't drink. Typically they don't drink alcohol. But the traditional horsemen and some. Some of the reindeer people, they'll ferment the yak milk and make vodka out of it. Actually, that makes it very clear vodka, which is really good. So when I go to my north trips to the reindeer people, it's like my horse herders that are on that trip, they make the Iraq, which is the fermented milk, and then they'll also make the vodka out of whatever milk they got, basically.

[Warwick Schiller]

I want to get to the reindeer people too, but I want to hear more about the. The eagle people. So what do they hunt with the eagles?

[Eric Cooper]

So they hunt foxes and hare primarily, but they'll also hunt badgers, even wolves. When we're on the trip, we mainly catch. One time we caught a marmot, but I'm a horrible hunter, and he was so cute. I felt like we were picking on the. His little fat, cute guy. And I felt like we were picking on the kid on the short. But so I said, no, no, we gotta let this guy go. And they're like, eric, we're hunting. And I was like, I know, but please, can you just let this one go? Can we go get the other one? But it's foxes and rabbits, and so.

[Warwick Schiller]

They'Re hunting him for fur.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, they hunt them for fur and meet for the eagles. And then there's a ceremony that goes on with the kill. So if it's like a fox, we hunt in a group. And a lot of Kazakhs will hunt in a group. They won't hunt usually solo, especially when there's rabbits around, because they're very hard to get. And how we do is we release multiple eagles in the air, and then it's. It's kind of. It's a team kill, you know what I mean? So the first. The first eagle that makes contact, that one is considered the one that kills it. If there's a second eagle that flies in or a third eagle, the legs of the fox are divided to those eagles as part of the ceremony. And then the fur either stays with the hunter from the first eagle, or he might reward it to one of the chasers. So it might be one of the. His brothers or even sisters. There's girls out there doing it now who chased the prey and was. Was aid in the hunt. So. So which is such a huge job. So then they'll award that accordingly. So there's a whole ceremony that goes on that you don't really realize. It's not just hunting, taking the fur. It's like this is a tradition, and this is part of the tradition.

[Warwick Schiller]

I think that's part of the cool part of. Of doing things like that, though, is not just the activity itself, but the cultural stuff behind it, you know, it's so cool, you know, like when I went to Mongolia, riding the camels, you know, just the. Just the. Like the. The ger. Etiquette, you know, like, you only go around to the right, and when they pass you the bowl, you take it with your right hand and support your right elbow with your left hand. And one for the. You know, you dip your finger in it and you tap your forehead. One. Oh, sorry. Flick your finger out. One for the gods, one for the earth, and then one for me. And then you drink it and all that sort of stuff. I find that's fast.

[Eric Cooper]

And you know what's funny? It's like you look at the culture and you're like. I mean, you think, oh, they live very simple. But it's like, no, it's not so simple. There's all these customs and all. Like you were talking about the etiquette and it. And as you spend more time there, you learn even more. Like, even with the lasso pole that used to catch the horses, like, you're never supposed to step over it, not even pick it up and go under it. Like you're supposed to go around it and respect that that's associated with the horse. Horses sacred. You don't mess with that energy. You don't dissect that energy, you go around it. Same with the saddle and like bridal. And it's just. Whereas us, we just walk. I'm just gonna walk. Oh, it's in my way. I'm just gonna walk over it. It's like, no, no, no.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right.

[Eric Cooper]

And there's even like the rope in the center of the GE that's usually made of horse hair that comes down and connects the heavens with the home and ties in. And then when they sell a horse or gift a horse, they take a piece of the horses, you know, tail hair, and tie it to it and.

[Warwick Schiller]

Hang it up in the rafters.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. So it's just like so many different things that all revolve around the horse and energy and, you know, shamanism. That's just so interesting, you know.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. So tell me about the eagles. What's the. What's. Because I. I remember I was doing a clinic in England one time and my wife and son were with me and they went off for the day and they actually happened to go to a. Like a falconry exhibition or something. Rather than this guy was talking all about the. The relationship with the bird and how you do things and. And my son was like, dad, it was just like, what you do with the horses. Like, there's a. There's a conversation that goes on. Can you tell us a bit about that? The eagle stuff?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. And for the eagle hunters that I live with and work with, some have, you know, eagles that they. Sorry, it's gonna be like. I hear it in the camera now. Can you hear that?

[Warwick Schiller]

That. That is Argentinian construction workers next door. You're good.

[Eric Cooper]

Sorry.

[Warwick Schiller]

It's authentic.

[Eric Cooper]

So with the eagles, it's like some of the hunters catch their eagles as a chick out of the nest, like on the high cliffs. And then some catch them wild as, like, younger birds. So their temperaments are. Are different. So the wild. The ones that are caught wild are. Are a lot more wild, but they're. They're typically better hunters. But those eagles don't necessarily come when they're called. Whereas the ones that are raised from chicks are based like your kid and they're. Well, not all kids are obedient, but it's like, there's a lot of time spent touching, you know, contact. You'll see them petting them all the time and like, you know, just working with them and. And calling them. But it's. It's like with horses, the conversation, it's not just an order. It's like, okay, we're having a conversation about this what is each party feeling? What is each party responding to? You know, are they. They function a lot off of food and hunger as well, but sometimes, yeah, they just want to hang out. I have some videos on Instagram or some are just hanging up and hanging out in the sky and they're just like chilling up there and then when they want to come down, they're going to dive bomb down and it's pretty insane. I'll send you a video later too, because it's on Instagram.

[Warwick Schiller]

I'd love to see that. Did you, did you post a video this year of it could have been you, it could have been Mary Williams. I can't remember who. Which one. It was out with some eagle hunters and you caught. They caught a wild eagle and tied him up and, and, and it must have been Mary.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

So she was out with some eagle hunters and they caught a wild eagle and they trussed it up and she actually put it on the front of the saddle with her and, and took it home for him or something. But yeah, I wasn't sure if it was you or Mary.

[Eric Cooper]

They'll train that eagle. And that's cool too, because it's like, you know, on my trip, there's different levels of people that come on the trip. There's some that are more. I have falconers that come and then, you know, horse people like ourselves. And it's really interesting because each eagle, it sounds silly to say, but each eagle is its own individual. They have their own personalities, their own responses and things like that. It's really cool that, you know, on the trip I pair up, you know, two of my western friends with one of my eagle hunter buddies. So you're in your own world. And I'm like, you guys are in that world. That's. You figure out your eagle. And it's so cool to see each group of people working with a completely different eagle. And, you know, and, and how that works and is some a bit more of a struggle? You know, some are bigger, some are larger, some are more experienced hunters, some are less experienced hunters. And. And it's just a cool process over the week to see everybody grow and everybody understand each other.

[Warwick Schiller]

So it's. The trips were a week.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. That one's. It's 10 days. So. Yeah. Week and a half. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

And how many people do you. Do you take?

[Eric Cooper]

I take around up to 10. 10 people. Okay. And then I'll divide it up. So it's two, five eagle hunters and two of my, my friends with their own eagle hunter. So you're in your own world and myself and the translator come in and out and are there to support you. If you're like, eric, this, the single's on my head. Now what do I do? Remain calm. Del re? No, but that's not structured yet.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay. And do they stay, do the people stay in gers there? Do they, Are they camping? What are they doing?

[Eric Cooper]

No. So we stay in gers that are provided by the families by the eagle hunters that, that we're hunting with. And they're decorated amazingly with bright tapestries that their wives have made. Like, they're very neon, like colors you wouldn't expect to be in western Mongolia. But it's a pretty comfortable trip as far as we're on beds, we have dudes making fires, and, you know, we have a chef, so it's pretty comfortable. But the challenge is like, the days are very physical. So a lot of riding, a lot of working with the, with the eagles, hurting yaks. And then at least you come back and you can sleep in a real bed and have someone make you dinner and have a drink if you want, or a shower. But then the next day we're hitting it again, you know, with. We go across six different mountain ranges or mountains around the camp to hunt and to train the eagles. So we're hunting, but we're also training the eagles at the same time.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right.

[Eric Cooper]

So we, we do, you know, call them to your hand, hood them, unhood them, have them chase a fake fox, catch it. You practice taking her off of the fox. So then when we get into the real hunt, the plan is, is that you are an active participant. You're not just there watching like you now have learned the skills. If the eagle hunter tells me, hey, that person needs a little bit more of this and this and this, we come over, you work on that exercise, you work on that part of the training more until you've got it down packed. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

What's it, what's it like trying to get a £30 eagle off something? It's caught hard.

[Eric Cooper]

I think it's like 100 psi. Like their strength is just insane. Sometimes it takes multiple, multiple dudes to try to pull her off. But it's like the ring finger. Why say finger? The ring claw is kind of like the money. Like that's like the, the one you pull to try to get them off because they're like, okay, you got me. Kind of like, oh, really? Finger back and saying, okay, get off.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah.

[Eric Cooper]

But, yeah, it's difficult. It's not easy. And depend on the Eagle, how aggressive they are. You know, some will be like, I'm not letting go. And. Yeah, and it's part of the challenge of it all. It's not. Definitely not easy.

[Warwick Schiller]

Wow. And how many of these trips do you do?

[Eric Cooper]

I only do a couple of the eagle trips, so it's. So, yeah, it's pretty. I don't want to be in Mongolia past October, because then you're talking. I mean, you've been there in the winter, so, you know, past then. So I typically run it end of September into October when it's, like, beautiful fall weather. We sometimes get snow. Like, we have had a blizzard on one of the trips. But I make these epic, like, Game of Thrones capes. And so if you get a cape, you're playing, you know, house Stark, Adam, Western Mongolia, and you're just fine.

[Warwick Schiller]

And you said, so the Mongolians, but you said something about Kazakhs. So are they in Kazakhstan or they Mongolia?

[Eric Cooper]

No. So the Kazakhs are. The eagle hunters are Kazakh, but they're in Bayan Oli, which is a Mongolian town. So back before borders were such a thing. It's like they used to migrate across, and then essentially now they're 90 of the population. And buying. Ogi is Kazakh, and I think there's a small population of, like, cult. Another town, but that's like, basically. Basically where most all of them live is in that or from around that village. So. So they're Kazakhs. Their belief system is Islamic. They do have a bit of kind of shamanist beliefs about things, but they're separate from. From Mongolians. Basically. Mongolians are more the Buddhists, the shamans and all that.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, yeah. So, Eric, tell me about the. The reindeer people. They're in. They're in northern Mongolia. Aren't they? Up against the Russian border?

[Eric Cooper]

Yep. So they're up in the really high mountains along the Russian border. They're called the Tatan people, and they once could travel freely between Russia and Mongolia. So they originate, originate from Tuva to the Tuvan people, and then when the border essentially got shot, they got stuck on this side, on the Mongolian side. So they are such a cool, cool, cool people. Like, they are shamanist people. They ride reindeer, which seems insane, but they literally ride their reindeer. And they herd the reindeer. Like, they keep reindeer, like people keep sheep, and they live in teepees, and they have wolf dogs that protect the reindeer at night, and they live in these burial forests and, like, high mountain valleys. It's just it. If it feels like if you discovered native Americans back in the day were the first to kind of see it, you know, smoke building out of a teepee, except they're not on a horse throwing this reindeer. So you're like, am I in a Disney movie? Or what is going on up here? You know, but that's who they are.

[Warwick Schiller]

And what was your first introduction to them? How did you. How did you. You know, it wasn't that many years ago. I think it was through Chloe Phillips Harris that actually found out there were reindeer people.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Your introduction to the reindeer people.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. Well, back in the day, her and I both went up there and we hired our own team again after doing the Mongol Derby. You're like, I can't be led by a generic tourist company. I want to go to the real stuff. And so went there in 2014, actually was the first time. And managed to reach them because it's basically, to reach them is pretty insane. You. You go from the capital city to a small village, and the small village, you get in 4x fours. You off road for two days, and then you get to a horse camp, which I befriended this horse dude on the side of a road, and he took me to his house, and that's how it ended up happening. I was like, we're going to the reindeer people. Do you know anything? And I had, you know, Doogie, who was on board, who translates for us, and he also works in the hq, the Mongol Derby. He was with us translating. And, yeah, we went. Went to his family, and they're like, we can take you there. So I was like, okay, let's just trust it and go. I don't suggest everybody does this. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, be careful about what I do and maybe don't try the same thing sometimes. But. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Was Chloe with you?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, she was with me on that.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay. I remember. I remember her telling me this story on the podcast. Yeah, you just rocked up and like, hey, want to find him?

[Eric Cooper]

And went there. It was insane. Like, just seeing the mom ride her reindeer into the camp in this barren valley and just three tps and would have thought that I would have never gone back. Like, okay, did it. There's other stuff in the world to see. But it's such freaking unique culture. You just feel like you're not full on it. You know what I mean? Visually, just intellectually, like, nothing. It was just, like, an insatiable thirst for this culture that's so unique. And so went back again the next year, and then. And then the next year, people were like, can I go with you. And I was like, that was when I was like, okay, I don't know. It's dangerous. You know, it's. It's two days horse ride, you know, to reach them through some pretty gnarly.

[Warwick Schiller]

Oh, okay. So I'm. You. You left that bit out. So you got to fly from Ula, this little place in the middle of nowhere. Then it's two days four wheel driving to get to the horse camp. Then you get to ride horses for two days to get to the reindeer.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, yeah. And that's to get to them. So, I mean, it's. It's a remote tribe, but it's so awesome because, you know, it's just you out there with them and they move all the time. Everybody's nomadic. So that's the challenge is where have people moved to, where are their migration routes and things like that. So now, after going so many years, like, I know where my families are camped, I know where they typically go, where they typically stay, that kind of thing. But yeah, I started going and then I'm there every year since. And now I go in the summer and I go in the fall, which is pretty amazing because you get to see the two different worlds. You get to see summer pastures, which are, you know, puking with wildflowers and, you know, just baby reindeer everywhere, you know, and a lot of the community comes together during that time to celebrate summer. And I get to see a lot of families that I may have not seen in a while, but I've been going up there since 2014, so it's been over a decade of living with them for four months at a time. I mean, that's been my main home in Mongolia, which is crazy to say, you know, but because it's not easy to reach. But I just love it so much. It's so unique. And yeah, in the fall is the harvest time. So everybody. Like the antlers are ginormous on the reindeer. Like their coats are beautiful. The families have moved even further from civilization because they're chasing the pastures. Right. Reindeer don't really eat grass. They're. They eat the little leaves off of things and bushes and things and mush. They love mushrooms. So if you're riding a reindeer and there's mushrooms around, you're just a passenger. That thing is dirt and all over the forest for them. But it's cool in the fall because it's harvest time. And I guess that plays back to me being from Farmland usa. It's. I. I'm just so interested in that type of thing. Like, how are you living off the land? Like, how are you. What is this? What is this environment giving you? And, you know, they collect blueberries, they collect pine nuts, they sell them in the villages. You know, they collect the mushrooms and dry them. Like, the forest gives so much, so much back, you know, that you could just ride through, not even think about it. And then when you're riding through with, you know, my horse, her brothers come with me every time and they'll be saying, oh, that's wild celery. And that's, you know, this medicinal herb that we use in shaman medicine. And it's such a cool. I'm just so passionate about it, such a cool trip. Because it's things that I feel like are so forgotten by, you know, our society and the way we live now, where everything is a pill. And it's like, but what are these things that these ancient peoples have used and are using and still use, you know, like. Oh, like a certain lichen, colored lichen off a rock for like a fever, you know, or this yellow flower for a sore throat. And it's just. It's just crazy, the amount of knowledge that's still up there that I'm learning something new every time I go. But that's who they are. And they moved up to six times a year, you know, with their reindeer, because the world is getting warmer and the reindeer arctic animals, so they have to keep with the cooler temps. So, yeah, it's just such a cool culture.

[Warwick Schiller]

What's their. What's their diet like? Like, what do they eat?

[Eric Cooper]

They. It's a lot of flour, a lot of flour, a lot of meat. Reindeer milk. They make reindeer milk tea, kind of like the horse herders make horse milk tea, but they make reindeer milk tea, which I always bring a little Earl Gray tea bag. And it made me look Earl Gray reindeer milk tea. And it's amazing. It almost tastes like a milkshake. So that, that part's amazing. To make a reindeer cheese that tastes like an aged Parmesan. They make. They eat a lot of pine nuts. They make a lot of jams from the berries that grow in the forest. So they get blueberries, lingonberries, wolf tongue berries and. But they eat reindeer meat. They hunt for other deer in the forest, moose. We ate bear.

[Warwick Schiller]

What do they hunt with?

[Eric Cooper]

They have rifles, like old Russian rifles. Yeah. And then, I mean, they hunt wolves as well, but I don't eat those. But the wolves try to eat their reindeer. They're shooting them and then those come and those are made as Our fur for our game of Thrones, capes for our eagle hunting trip. So we buy them from them. So it's, you know, they can earn income from that when they have them. But what else do they eat? A lot of soups, dumplings, a lot of the same things that Mongolians, but they just have a lot more herbs and things that grow up there.

[Warwick Schiller]

So. Yeah, I can't care to see another dumpling?

[Eric Cooper]

I feel you. I'm not a fan of mutton, so. So when it's reindeer, I'd rather be eating reindeer.

[Warwick Schiller]

What's. What's reindeer taste like?

[Eric Cooper]

I feel like it tastes like beef, honestly.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay.

[Eric Cooper]

It might be because I'm in that environment where I have been eating sheep and stuff down in the, you know, the steps that then when I get up to the north, I'm like, everything tastes amazing. But yeah, the reindeer, I feel like it tastes like beef. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

And what. So the, the reindeer people, are they. Because you said the Kazakh are Islamic. What are the reindeer people? Do they have a shaman? Are they Buddhist?

[Eric Cooper]

They're all shamans. There's really one main shaman that's respected in the tribe as the leader, but the darkhead people, who. They're. That's. So mongolia has like 21 different ethnic groups. One of them is the Darka people, which are. The folklore is like they're the swarm, protectors of the soul. Genghisan. Right. So these are the people that. The mountain people, so to speak, that live in the north. And they're a mix of Buddhist, but they're really shocked. They're really practicing shaman people. And the reindeer people are all shamans, basically. So their culture is rooted in shamanism and so is the horse tribe. So it's. It's another thing that's really cool because you don't need to see a shaman to see them practicing that life. Like them, you know, doing the blessings, you know, with the milk, them, you know, doing certain things like making a sacrificial thing of horse hair on the top of mountains on sticks, or, you know, having a knowledge of all these medicinal plants and things. It's just very cool that, that en. That energy and that belief is all around you when you're up there. And it's just freaking insane, but you can feel it.

[Warwick Schiller]

Can you?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. It's such a spiritual place that it's. And the, the thing I think that's the coolest is it's, you know, it's a dangerous place. It's risk. You're in the wilderness and this is why this religion or belief system is here, because they are living in this very wild place with these dangers with these animals. And so, of course, they would believe in the earth and Mother Nature and things like that, because that's who they depend on for survival. And it's just really interesting, the customs that go with it. You know, even I've been to a few shaman ceremonies that, you know, the whole tribe are at. It's not for tourism. It's like he does it because it's for his people, not because I said, hey, I've got a group of people that want to see you. Like, it's not happening. That's why I really like going there, because I always tell the people on my trips, we might not see him. We might not get invited. It depends on what's going on. And it's not something like that. I advertise as available because I'll only do it if it's authentic, if it's real. I'm not doing it if it's for a circus. So that said, it's cool that the horse people that come with me are knowledgeable about all these things. You know, they're. They're. They're telling you which plants are used for what, like, which ceremony is going on, what they would practice here, and the superstitions that come with living there. You know, like, it's just so many different things that I've been going there for over a decade, and I'm still so curious about this life, and it's so cool to have people come with me that are curious about it as well. And me and Doogie, who works with me, who's Mongolian, being able to say, hey, this is our knowledge that we've learned from a decade of living with these people, and we're gonna share this all with you. But then there's so much more to discover, too. Like, we're all still learning, and I'm still going there because it's probably my favorite place on the whole planet. I mean, I love the eagle trip, too, but riding reindeer, the teepees, the forest, the. Just knowing the families and having them be my friends and being able to see their secrets, be protective of their secrets, that it's not needing to be commercial. There's certain things we'll share, there's certain things we won't share. It's just cool. It's just a very. This life feels very, very unreal. You know what I mean?

[Warwick Schiller]

Right?

[Eric Cooper]

It's like when I tell people what I do, they're like, yeah, sure you do.

[Warwick Schiller]

So, so how long is one of those trips? Because you know, you gotta, you gotta fly to either Japan or China, then to Ula Matar, then to the small village, then two days in the full drive, then two days on the horse. I mean, takes you a week to get there. How long do you stay there?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, we spend like, like three to four days with the people. And then the rest of it's like the travel. But it's like the travel is the journey, you know.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right, yeah, journey too.

[Eric Cooper]

Because we're with the horse herders, you know, for base. Well, they're with us the whole time, but we also lasso our own horses on that trip for those that want to try it. But yeah, it's, that's like 11, 12 days is that trip. So it's, it's kind of similar link to the eagle trip. But a large part of the trip is hey, we're going to place very few people have ever experienced. So you're getting across, you know, you're getting to be in Newbie, which is Mongolia's capital city. You're getting to see the city culture through Doogie, who's our, you know, translator, manager, co guide, and how he lives and how he grows up. Then we're going out into this little village. You're getting to see our drivers who are from there, how people live in this village that's more kind of built up of a village. And then we're going through, we're going to pass through some mountain villages but then we go across the quintessential step and then we're up into the mountain people who live in gers and they live in log cabins, you know, and it's just seen all these cultures and then finally the reindeer people. So you're seeing so much of Mongolia in one trip through the journey. Yeah, and, and the horses are incredible that we use, we use the darkhead breed, so they're mainly white. And yeah, they're like a sub breed of the Mongolian horse, but they're a more like stockier mountain horse. So like little drafts, like some of them look like little draft horses. And you're like what, you put a person like this size, a compact size. But it's really cool to know that okay, Mongolia, there's all these, these different things that you just don't know until you go and you see. But it's cool.

[Warwick Schiller]

Wowzers. And you, you said you, you. That's where you stay when you're in Mongolia. So you go, you take a trip, people up Stay there, bring them back. And then when they go home, you go back up there.

[Eric Cooper]

Well, I go back. Usually I do. Like I was doing two trips in the summer, so I was spending, like, what was that? A little over a month up, up there and then a month in the fall, like, kind of spread out. But yeah, it's a lot of travel. So I live in a tent. I'm a. No, a nomad boy, so the tent is my home. Thank God I got a North Face one and not the old shitty one anymore.

[Warwick Schiller]

When you were saying you were writing for that Gearhead magazine, now it makes sense because before the Gaucho derby, you were like our expert on, you know, this is the sort of tent you need. You know, get this brand, don't get this brand, do this, do that. You've had lots of experience in that.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, it was such a cool, cool job getting to see all the brands. But I would go out and test them on my adventures and see, like, how they held up and. Yeah, and now I do it for my. Now I do it for this job. What kind of stuff do you need? Well, I'll tell you, but it was. It was a really cool job meeting the brands. And just then a lot of them supported me on my own adventures, too. And in addition with, like, the reindeer trip, it's like, I bring a lot of veterinary aid up to the reindeer people. So there are some other things I do that are more like, hey, I'm a good dude, they're my friends. I have this platform to be able to help. I'm not going to white privilege it. I'm just a animal dude helping my animal friends and I'm capable of providing these things for them. So a lot of brands help support me with that stuff. So it's like, whether it's bringing veterinary supplies up there or medical supplies, a big part of what we do is we also educate them on the access that they have in their villages to veterinary supplies and how to use them properly. So if they're going to have them, don't use antibiotics to treat worms. It's used like this. Don't consume dairy products or eat an animal that's had these things. So we do a lot of, you know, just, hey, let's sit down and talk about it. And Doogie translates it all. And I have a team of vets that I work with remotely that can help my families if they need it. Like, if they go to their village and they have an issue with one of their animals, they can contact Doogie. He can contact me. And we. We do that thing too, to kind of support and say, hey, we have. We have this access to working on these horse races and knowing this big group of veterinarians that we can really provide some, you know, help our friends out. And then I was working with the u. S. Embassy in mongolia too, to help with medical issues within the tribe. Like, there's some kids that have, like, chronic psoriasis and things like that that they can't always get to a doctor and they can't always get their, you know, the medicines that they need. So we become that supply line for them. If we're going up anyway, we'll bring things up for the families. It's just not something that I like post all over social media because I respect their privacy too. And.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right. Yeah.

[Eric Cooper]

You know, hey, I got you this. Take a picture with me. Like, right. Because I'm a good person, like, and. And I'm happy to do it because it's. So they save me letting me be in the wild in their place, you know, so it's like, it's cool that we can not just bring people to experience it and provide them with the income, but do some more constructive things as well while we're there.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, that's super cool. You just mentioned, once again, the races. I was going to ask you. I want to make sure I get this before we get done here. What's the craziest thing you've seen happen on the mongol derby?

[Eric Cooper]

The mongol dirt. Besides the guy breaking his neck with me? I'll say the craziest thing. One of. There's several crazy things, but one of the craziest things was just seeing earden. We had some of our herders race one year, and one of his name is. Is ear nocher who, you know. Wait. Yeah, he was on here.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, I met him. He was on the academy.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, he was on the academy with you. We flew him over here for that. He's just such a special dude. But just to see him. Him race in the mongol derby and him ride standing up like mongolians ride standing up. I don't think people realize that. They ride straight standing up. And he did the whole race standing up.

[Warwick Schiller]

And it's just a thousand kilometers. Standing up in the stirrups.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. And he won it. And I think that was probably the most special moment I. That was one of the most special moments I've seen is him, you know, racing for his country and showing up and being a good sportsman, too, like, looking out for his fellow riders who he didn't even speak the language, you know, and so that was really special. The other crazy thing was, you know, Bob Long, 70 year old cowboy winning the Mongol Derby, like, it's just insane.

[Warwick Schiller]

You, you know, he's from like Wyoming or something, isn't he?

[Eric Cooper]

From Wyoming? An incredible, incredible guy. Like, I just can't say enough good things about him. Like, you know, he was competitive, but he looked at I'm. The people are my priority. So it's like people and horses and just to see him respect the culture. Like every horse he had when he was in first place, he brought little blue ribbons and like tied it on their tail. He always brought little gifts to the little girls, like little barrettes and things like that. Like, he wasn't just there as the horse race, but he was representing a horse culture that's very similar to what I grew up in, you know, back home and, you know, small town usa and really representing that culture in this horse culture, you know, and to see him win, I was just like, damn, this is so impressive. Like, I'm 40 years old, I would never do the Mongol Derby again. Like, that thing is so hard. And this guy's 70 years old. And he went, he went in and he smashed it. But he smashed it so respectfully and just authentically that it's just impressive, like incredible. So I asked him how he felt towards the end. He was like, I feel like hammered. And I was like, he's real.

[Warwick Schiller]

He'S real. 70 years old.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

So how, how long does it take, like say him when he won it, how long did it take him?

[Eric Cooper]

I think he finished it in seven days. I feel like he finished it in. But you know, things change every year. So it's like I can't remember when the ride time was until then, but we did. I think we shortened the ride time to 7:00 now and I think it might have gone till like 8 his year. So sometimes you can't really compare years because of the changing of the rules and like the times you could ride. And we changed them based on, you know, the statistics of lost horses. Crew trying to find horses, riders getting into trouble and us trying to respond. Set everything before nightfall. Basically so kind of a safety thing.

[Warwick Schiller]

And. Wow. What else was I gonna ask you?

[Eric Cooper]

We're gonna need a five hour interview.

[Warwick Schiller]

We're gonna what?

[Eric Cooper]

I said we're gonna need a five hour interview with all these good topics.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, I'm sure you could, I could get you going for 10 hours. Have you got anything else that you are thinking of doing. I mean, you know, you do that, you do the eagle stuff, you do the reindeer stuff, you do the Mongol Derby, you did the Gaucho Derby. You got any other things you're looking to do or you're pretty solid in where you're at?

[Eric Cooper]

I mean, I am pretty busy as it is, but I'm. I'm doing a new trip in Mongolia that's riding, like, learning how to train racehorses there, learning how to train them with my family. So I got gifted a racehorse one year from a very special family. So it's a pretty big gesture. And it's something I don't think people like, really have gotten. Horse people haven't gotten experience. Like, what is this horse racing culture? Tell me everything that it's about, like, Mongol Derby. You're definitely racing, you're in it, but you don't have the moments of pause to be like, hey, what's your breeding program like? Like, they're not all just wild horses. No thought process behind them. You know, I mean, there's a lot of thought that goes behind it. There's a lot of thought that goes into the training. So this nutrition.

[Warwick Schiller]

Well, tell us about. Sorry, tell us about a Mongolian horse race. It's not around a racetrack.

[Eric Cooper]

Like, no, see, they're. They do. They do up to. I think it's like 40, 45 kilometers. And they do different age groups. But it. Horse racing is massive in Mongol, like, at the big races, you can win a Prius, you can win a Land Cruiser. Like, it's definitely a life changer to be able to have, you know, a winning horse. So training them is something really interesting. I mean, naturally. They're naturally fit because they have to cross the distance they distances they do to get water and things like that. But the horse races start in like late June and go until like the end of August. So everyone hears about the big naadam that, you know, the national horse race and festival that happens in July. But what also happens is the minute summer hits, there's preliminary horse races like every week across all of Mongolia. Like in the villages and this outside the small zooms and the children are the jockeys. And yeah, they race stallion separately. They don't race mares typically, but yeah, it's.

[Warwick Schiller]

And how long are these races?

[Eric Cooper]

I think the longest one is like 40Ks. I think by granted when they start, it's kind of a bit. A bit unusual because for us, you would trailer your horse and so it stays fre. Right. And you would stop at the start line for them. They start like 5 to 10ks away. They ride them to the start line and then they like race them across. You're like, well, you already did, you know, 10 kilometers before the race even started. You know what I mean? So they're longer than advertised, basically.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. I didn't. Had never seen a horse race. I saw a camel race when I was there. And we camels are epic. And they, they rode. It was a camel festival and they ride the camels from the camel. They rode the camels to the camel festival. Yeah, we rode our camels to the camel festival. But then they ride their camels from the finish line and they ride them out to the start line. Yeah, and then they turn them around and then they race them back.

[Eric Cooper]

Exactly. It's like, hey, guys, I have a. I. Are you warming them up? What's going on? But yeah, so that's a new trip that I'm doing. But then it's going to also combine some wellness things. People probably don't know, but Mongolia is a big place for traditional medicine, hot springs, things like that, the saunas thing. So I have some surprises, some wellness surprises on that because it's become like a big part of my life being in these extreme situations. You got to look out for yourself as well and make sure you're taking care of your body. So I'm starting to add a bit more of that into new trips that I do, new ideas that I have for travel. So, yeah, that's what I'm doing. And then who knows what else will come to my mind. Yeah, doing some more creative, creative things outside of horses. I was going to work on a kid's book, but that's been shelved. Yeah, A couple other things.

[Warwick Schiller]

What about, what about Eric's life storybook? I'd read that.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah. I'm calling it the Adventures of Nicholas the Ridiculous. So it's not even Eric, but it's like this ridiculousness got me to grow into who I am. So it's like something like that I'm creating. But yeah, too busy doing it. Need to take more time to pause and be like, what the hell? I don't take enough time to look behind and be like, okay, we just did all that. You know, thank God for social media because you can look back through your post and be like, oh, forgot about that. Because I don't know about. You know, you're such a forward dude with everything you got going on too. It's. It's like, do we ever sit and be like, can I please Pause and look and see back there what just happened. Because we're so busy, like, looking forward when we're this passionate about what we're doing, that you're just like, what's the next challenge and the next stress and the next Whatever, whatever. And then it's like, wait, wait, wait. What did we just do for the past, like, decade? Can we sit and digest that for a second and then can we move on to the new or the, you know, the next project kind of thing?

[Warwick Schiller]

But, yeah, it's always interesting looking at Facebook memories. Actually, it popped up this morning. So exactly one year ago, Kansas Carradine and I went to an endurance race in Southern California to not prepare for the G show, but make sure that all the parts were working. And yeah, yeah, there was a year ago. Today.

[Eric Cooper]

It's so. It's just so cool, like, having friends you want to spend the time with, right. And to share something, whether it's a race or travel or whatever, where you're all. I mean, the biggest thing is you're curious. So. And it's such a big thing because people will ask me. They're like, so what do you want to do next year? What are you going to do in the future? I said, I'm going to do whatever makes me curious. If I'm bored, I'm not doing it. Like, I want to be curious every day with this job, in this lifestyle, I wake up, I probably think way too much about horses. I'm like, I need to get some friends that don't have horses. But that's what's on my mind all the time. But it's like, you wake up and you're just curious and you're like, oh, I have a sense of wonderful, you know, and what is that wonder? Is it, you know, the horses you're looking at, Is it the, you know, the tack? Is it the country? Is it the culture? Is it. You're creating some experience, you know, you at the training clinics and things as well. What does this mean for. I always think, what does this mean for the people, you know, And. And what are they getting out of it? And who are they? And are we good enough? You know, is what you're putting out there good enough? Like, are you being true to your own points person, too, at the same time? And. And what challenge is that? Like, you know, for the Gaucho Derby, it's a lot. We ride across private land. We use horses that, you know, the riders really rarely meet the owners of the horses. Like, it's been myself and vets and people putting our own, not just myself, our own personalities on the line and building that trust to be able to get the best that we can get, to get the access through, you know, properties that have said no to other people, but why did they say yes to us? You know, so it's like, who are you as a person and what are you putting out there? So this job and lifestyle has been really, you know, challenging, to say the least. But it's been really introspective to say for myself to say, how are you acting with people? How do you treat people like, do you make sure everybody's celebrated? It's such a big thing for myself that I try to make it a priority that, like, everybody feels like somebody. And it's such an easy thing to say, but it's a hard thing to do. You know, on races, in life, in your circles, how do you give your one person, how do you give more of yourself to all these people that are either you're following on social media or your friend circles or your clients? And, you know, if you're, if we're saying this is who we are, we're authentic people, we're authentic experience, then where's the authentic communication like, and how can you do that as one person? And, you know, everybody from, like, Daniela, who cooks for us on the gacha, who's amazing, who we celebrate, it's like a lot of that really is on my mind a lot. Like, how do we celebrate people more? And even with our social media things and stuff like that, like, how do we make sure people shine as much as possible? Sometimes I get really exhausting, but it's like everybody's important at the end of the day. So you know, every, every single person that is in your circle. So, yeah, this life pushes me to do that and try to be better at it, too.

[Warwick Schiller]

I think you do amazing job of it, you know, like the Gacha Derby, like finding all those horses and finding people who let you ride through their property and just the whole bit. And like you said, trying to make every, every person feel seen and, you know, appreciated. That's a, you know, that's a hard, hard thing to do, but you do it. You do it well. You have this. You have this. I don't know, you've got this. I know you said you like to complain a lot, but I don't know if I've ever met anybody who is as. You just have this optimistic energy about you. You're always, you know, it could be the wind, could be Blowing your horse's ears sideways. And there's Eric, like, hey, he's having a good day.

[Eric Cooper]

I do like to have fun and make fun of my own self for being ridiculous sometimes. So.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, yeah, no, you're living. You're living an amazing life. And. And hopefully this conversation inspires others to maybe think about living a bit more. You know, you kind of live that icky guy life. You know what ikigai is?

[Eric Cooper]

No, but I went to a restaurant in Mongolia called Ikigai, but I didn't know that it meant anything.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, ikigai is a Japanese term, and it's like a Venn diagram. And so there's four circles. One's what you love, one's what you're good at, one's what you can be paid for, and one is what the world needs. Okay. And so then they all cross, and if two of them cross, like, what you love and what you're good at, that's your passion. What you love and what your world needs, that's your mission. What the world needs and what you can get paid for is your vocation. What you're good at, what you can get paid for is your profession. If all those cross in the middle, there's a spot in the middle where all four of those cross, and that's icky guy. So basically it is. I think it's a combination of the words icky and, which means life, and guy, which means worth. But it's. It's. It's basically about. I don't know if it's about living your best life, but it's. It's about living the. Oh, what would I say here? Yeah, it's just about.

[Eric Cooper]

Is it like Captain and all the powers come together and then you're Captain Planet?

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, it's just like, you know, all the. Not many people get to it. Some people get a vocation, some people get a passion, whatever. But when you can take all four of those things and put them together and make a life out of that, I feel like that's. I've been fortunate to fall in that icky guy spot. I think you're in that icky guy spot. You know, you. Yeah, it's just. It's. It's amazing when you meet people who are in that spot, because it's. It's. Usually they, like, they're like you. They're living their best life. They're inspirational, they make everybody else around them feel amazing. And. Yeah, it's been so good getting to know you on the. On the. The academy. And then on the gaucho derby. Sorry I yelled at you.

[Eric Cooper]

I don't mind. I yell back. This is like, I was you once. I know. Get over here and give me a hug. And you did.

[Warwick Schiller]

You did. Actually. You took my berating quite well, and you basically told me to pull my head in. And then five minutes later, you go, I'll get a cask of wine. You want some? I'm like, hell, yeah.

[Eric Cooper]

Get over here and give me a hug. We had a good time that night, too, with. With Dan and. And Elliot. We were telling some stories that night.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah.

[Eric Cooper]

But I think the biggest takeaway, too, with just figuring out, like, what. There's a lot of people just trying to figure out what they want to do and how they want to do it. And I think the biggest takeaway is it doesn't have to be perfect. Like, I learned so much. And you probably can say the same where you have to have a mess and then see the mess and then trim out parts of it, whether that's your life, your social circles. But, like, you can't be afraid to make the mess first and then refine it later. And I think a lot in just our culture is, like, perfectionism and, oh, this has to be perfect. This has to all make sense. It doesn't all have to make sense because you need to have those big creative dumps of mess and then figure out what in this mess works, what doesn't. But sometimes you can't get to what works until you figure out what doesn't, you know, And I think that's huge for your job, everything else, like I said. But it's like, when I was thinking about how did I even get to this point? Oh, there was a big mess beforehand. Like, none of this stuff was easy. Like, I've, you know, screwed up several times or I made mistakes here, you know, I just threw myself into it and was like, what am I doing? And. But if you don't do it, you don't learn, and you got to throw yourself into it. I think one of the things from both of our jobs is working with horses, you know, and this specifically for. For myself in Mongolia is like working with wild horses. And I'm in a. You know, I'm in a corral and I'm approaching. I'm trying to catch this horse, and you're. You have to be so sure with what you're putting out there. And I'm not a calm person. I'm a very excitable person. For me to calm this crazy shit down, is very difficult. But in Mongolia, I cannot be approaching crazy with crazy or I'm going to get my face kicked. But it's like, it's so interesting working with horses because it's kind of like you're pushing yourself in and saying, okay, compose your. And what are you putting out to this animal? And, and, and how are they responding to it? Because that's what's so cool about working with wild horses, is like you're going to get an instant response. Like the minute you set a finger, you know, off, you know, whatever, you're gonna see that reaction in front of you. And that is a big risk because this animal is bigger than you. But it's so cool, too, because then when you see that with horses, you can bring them to your own life. How are you bringing your person and to interact with other people, to interact with other things? And what are you putting out there that maybe you need to reel your ass in a second, say, okay, let me breathe, and let me just like poke the bits in that are. That are hanging out. You know what I mean? And it's so cool to work with horses. And you can relate, I'm sure, about, like, what am I putting out there right now? And am I even breathing weird? Should I not have that caffeine? Should not have that third cup of fucking coffee right now? It's not going to be good for me.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, I think you act like you, you know, you go through life like you've had. Just had three cups of coffee. So you got that. You get that cool energy you bring to everything. So how can people find about you and your adventures and all your stuff?

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, if you have Instagram, come over to my Instagram, please listen to the it with the music on. I spent a lot of time picking those soundtracks for those posts.

[Warwick Schiller]

So on Instagram, it's Eric Cooper.

[Eric Cooper]

Eric Cooper, adventurous at Eric with a K. Eric Cooper adventurous at Instagram. Or you can add me on adventures.

[Warwick Schiller]

Or Adventurous, Adventurous, Adventurous. Yeah, okay, that's Instagram. You get a website and then.

[Eric Cooper]

No, no website. It's word of mouth or social, strictly right now. Or you can find me on Facebook, Eric Cooper. I'm riding a white reindeer. So there's not too many of me out there. I don't think so.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, if. If you look up Eric Cooper on Facebook and the profile picture is not riding a white reindeer. That's not him.

[Eric Cooper]

Yeah, because I have another one that's a brown reindeer. But that's a whole situation when Facebook kicks me out of my other one. But don't add brown reindeer. Add white reindeer.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay. Not brownie reindeer.

[Eric Cooper]

Eric.

[Warwick Schiller]

White reindeer. Eric. Perfect. Well, Eric, thank you so much for joining me. And we've been wanting to do this for quite a while, but you're a nomad, so you're really hard to get a hold of.

[Eric Cooper]

Thanks for having me. It's been so much fun to chat about all the things and just like take a minute to chat about the more like emotional side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

No, it's been great catching up with you. Enjoy the academy and say hi to all the crew that I might know.

[Eric Cooper]

Like, yeah, they're all Sergio and Webinar with all the writers and I was like, I go talk to work so you guys hold all down that ship. But I'll go tell them.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, enjoy that. And I hope the wind doesn't blow too hard.

[Eric Cooper]

Let's hope my hair is thin enough. I don't need any of it blowing off.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay. And you guys at home, thanks so much for joining us and we'll catch you on the next episode of the Journey on podcast.

[Eric Cooper]

Thanks for being a part of the Journey on Podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warwick has over 850 full length training videos on his online video [e-mail] Be sure to follow Warrick on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram to see his latest training advice and insights.