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- [00:07]
A
Journey on Magic lies Within the Trails we Ride. You're listening to the Journey On Podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warrick is a horseman, trainer, international clinician and author who helps empower horse people from all over the world with the skills, knowledge and mindsets needed to create trusting partnerships with their horses. Warrick offers a free seven day trial to his comprehensive online video library that includes hundreds of full length training videos and several home Study courses@videos.warwickshiller.com.
- [00:44]
B
G'day everyone. Welcome back to the Journey On Podcast. I'm your host Warwick Shiller and my amazing guests this week on the podcast are James and Mary Beth Hyland. I met this young couple at a horse expo recently and we just hit it off right away and within, I don't know, the first 10 minutes of me chatting with them, I'm thinking and these two would be great on the podcast. So let me just read you their bio. It says Mary Beth and James Hyland have chosen to take the path less traveled and are committed to a life of showing others the way. As college sweethearts, they've been together for over 20 years with breakups, breakdowns and breakthroughs. James had a debilitating alcohol addiction that was numbing him from learning how to communicate and express himself. Marybeth was a clinically diagnosed work addict whose childhood trauma kept her from ever feeling worthy. Together and apart, they're on a healing journey that started with understanding their shared and unique value and how to harness them for a better life. Mary Beth is a global award winning coach, speaker and cowgirl whose superpower is giving full permission to be human. You can catch her thought leadership features in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times, abc, CBS and NBC to name a few. James is a recovering Division 1 lacrosse player, financial sales executive turned holistic lifestyle coach, emotion code practitioner and amateur che. He specializes in the mind, body, soul connection. Today they're living their retirement dream 35 years ahead of schedule in their tiny house on 100 acre ranch in the mountains of Idaho, running a thriving business together, supporting others to regain their power by setting healthy boundaries to live their authentic values, not someone else's. When they're not supporting others through coaching courses and keynotes, they invest every moment they can with their newly gentled Mustang Norby and their sensitive Fjord Ollie. I had a great chat with these two. Just love their and I'm sure you will too. And I'm sure you guys enjoy this conversation as much as I did. James and Mary Beth, welcome to the Journey on Podcast I'm really glad to be here.
- [02:49]
C
Thank you for having us.
- [02:51]
B
You, you guys might be the. The quickest from meeting someone to having them on the podcast ever. I'm not sure because it was only about three weeks ago we met, wasn't it?
- [03:00]
A
Pretty much, yeah. It was pretty. Pretty short, yeah.
- [03:04]
C
Amazing. Amazing connection. Divine connection.
- [03:07]
B
Yeah. Well, it was great chatting with you guys. And then I kind of came home and you emailed me, so I told you to email me. Then I looked up what you guys really do, and I'm like, oh, these guys are the perfect podcast guests out there changing the world. So why don't we start out? Why don't you, you guys explain to the folks at home exactly what you guys do these days, and then we're going to figure out how you got there, which is going to be the fun part.
- [03:32]
C
Yeah. So James and I work with high achievers. That's typically executive or entrepreneurs who have checked all the right boxes, have done all the things that they thought they were supposed to do to reach this peak of success, and they get there and they're like, oh, my gosh, why am I so burnt out? Why am I so overwhelmed? Why am I disconnected from my energy and my purpose? I've done all the right things. Why is it not feeling right? And so we help those individuals, working with them one on one in group coaching. I also do keynote speeches on the topic, and we have courses, but really it's all about helping meet that person where they are, not where they want to be, and to walk alongside them on what we call the journey to alignment, to really be able to understand how do I go from a place of being totally disconnected from my values, who I am authentically, and meet myself there with kindness and compassion, and then take some steps forward to learn who am I really, and how can I start setting those boundaries that are really, really driven by my values and create a life that is truly a reflection of who I was born to be, not who society told me I should be.
- [04:49]
A
Yeah. And it's. It's the big part about, as Meredith mentioned, like, the values part of it, because I feel like for us, what we find and we found it in ourselves is so much of why we're drained or we feel uncomfortable because we're not aligned with our values. We're doing someone else's values, but not our own. So helping people uncover that and then figure out how to actually take action towards living those values is a big part of what we support people with.
- [05:14]
B
You know, it's really Interesting. That whole little spiel that you gave right then, Mary Beth, if we didn't preface this with the fact that you were dealing with entrepreneurs and high achievers, you could think you were dealing with society's quote, unquote, dropouts, so to speak. You know what I mean? Like, it's. And the point I'm trying to make here is those thoughts that we have about not being enough and all that sort of stuff are universal.
- [05:47]
C
Yes.
- [05:48]
B
You know, the dollar signs or whatever don't exclude you from, from, from having those. From having those thoughts. And, um, let's. So let's back up quite a bit. And with the two of you, it's hard to. Kind of. Kind of hard to go back and forth, but I want to figure out how the hell did you guys get to be doing that? Because, like, you, you were dealing with, you know, probably C suite type people, you know, entrepreneurs, leaders in business or whatever, and you're advising them. How did you get the. And you guys are young. Like, how did you guys get this wisdom? You know what, that's the thing I try to figure out in the podcast is how did you get from point A to point B and what were the things along the line there? So what did you guys. You guys both grew up in. You weren't from Pennsylvania, were you? From across the border somewhere? Weren't you?
- [06:49]
C
We're both from Maryland.
- [06:50]
B
Maryland. That's where it was right now.
- [06:52]
C
Baltimore. I'm from Baltimore County. James is from Annapolis in Mary. And our paths, we found each other in college. And when we were in college, James had a really crippling relationship with alcohol, and I had a really crippling relationship with high achievement. And it was the kind of thing where college can be such a perfect ground to kind of fester in all your wounds because you're just kind of on your own for the first time. And in an experience of figuring out how am I going to lead myself in this world in that kind of space. And so fast forward a bunch of years. We both, we were together and then we broke up, and then we got back together again, and I was very clear on what I wanted to do with my life. You know, I was. I knew exactly what the steps were. I knew what I had to do to achieve them. I was going to do whatever it took to get there. And James, like, really, he majored in lacrosse. Like, he got a full scholarship in lacrosse. He did amazing in the sense of that he scored a lot of goals.
- [08:02]
B
He scored a lot of goals.
- [08:03]
C
He did what he's supposed to do. But we went to college on very different types of energies of he was super high achieving when it came to his physicality and I was super high achieving when it came to what am I going to do with my life, you know, how am I going to be a success? And much like the people that we work with today, we realize that a lot of those motivations, the things that were driving me to be successful, were actually the things that were creating all the pain and trauma in my life from when I was a child. Right. And I was just replaying that pain and trauma out. And so I wound up getting like all these awards, all these accolades, all the, everything you would think that a superstar, rock star person would want to have and to say, I've really made it. You know, I was, I was seen as. I got the award for innovator of the year in my state here. And that was a long time ago. You know, it was check, check, check, check. Every single box checked. And I was miserable. I was suffering so deeply. James was a super high achieving financial professional, which I'll let you share your own story around that. But we were this quote, unquote, power couple. We really, society saw us as doing all the right things, getting all the right recognitions, moving on up the ladder, really making our way. But we were deeply suffering, we were drinking heavily in order to just kind of get through to the next day. I had incredible insomnia. I always had thoughts of unworthiness racing and flooding my system constantly. And that was what drove my work addiction. And it was the kind of thing that I had no clue what was even step one to make another choice. I just figured this is what it means to be successful. It means that you don't sleep, that you hustle all the time, and that you are going to get recognized for it through all these external validators. And when all those external validators didn't add up to feeling good, it was like, oh, I don't know what to do differently. And that's when it started for me.
- [10:10]
B
It's interest. Before you start there, James, you know, it's interesting you were saying that, you know, I was innovator of the year and I had extreme feelings of unworthiness. And you, you know, like you were just saying, you tend to, you tend to think, you get conditioned that those external validators are the thing you should strive for. And you, you kind of found them to be quite empty, didn't you?
- [10:39]
C
Oh, my gosh. It was literally the kind of thing where I Would come home from an award ceremony. And James can vouch for this. That night I would have nightmares about never accomplishing more than that. I'd wake up in the middle of the night, like, frightened and terrified that I wasn't good enough. And then the next morning I would just beat myself up over the things I could have done differently or better from the day before. So it was this really intense trauma pattern, self hate pattern that came from being conditioned as a child that it didn't matter if I, for example, got first place in the breaststroke. That was what I. I was a swimmer when I was a kid. So it didn't matter if I beat the state record for in first straight first place breaststroke. The next day I better be in the pool and seeing if I can get it faster, you know, beat my own record because that was. The conditioning was okay, great for this moment. And now you better get back out there and do even more. Whether that was in a competitive thing that's as easy to measure as like swimming or that was helping my dad with his construction company and tarring a roo, you know, or it was the kind of thing that was getting the grades that were the expectation or whatever job it was. So it was really amazing to be able to witness through the healing journey of how much I was just repeating the almost exact words and phrases that were used and weaponized against me growing up to think I wasn't good enough, that I then just became my own inner dialogue, my own self hate that just kept motivating me from a place of fear instead of motivating myself from a place of love.
- [12:26]
B
Certainly. James, what about your story?
- [12:29]
A
Yeah, so as Merritt mentioned, I was an athlete pretty much all my life. I love to compete. I had a. In my 20s, I definitely struggled with alcohol, Using it as a way to really just numb out and, and really just kind of quiet a lot of those voices that were trying to talk to me, but I maybe didn't want to listen to them or I just didn' hear it at the time. And I then channeled my, like, competitive energy into sales. So I worked in finance for over a decade and really grew a sales team to over $10 billion in sales. I was making all this with a B. I was making. I was making lots of. I was making more money because I was like, I was like, okay, how do I get out of this? Like, hey, to be successful, I got to make a lot of money. In my family, we grew up very, I'd say middle class. Like, we were com. We were Definitely comfortable and all that, but I was like, okay, I want more. I want to keep growing. I want more. And I thought more money would. Would kind of solve all those problems, and it didn't. Then I was like, well, it's because I need more money than that. And then it was like, okay, you.
- [13:35]
B
You were. You'd bought into that myth, hadn't you?
- [13:38]
C
Yeah.
- [13:38]
A
Yeah. Just need more.
- [13:39]
B
Like.
- [13:39]
A
Right. Just need more. And it really got to a point. So a couple years, it got to a point. Where did. She started her business? Like, she went and started her business, and I felt like it was, like, divine timing, too, because she was trying to get a executive director position, and then it kind of fell through, and it was like, okay, why don't. Why not start this business? Like, we've been talking about it forever. So she started this business while I was still working in finance. And then I guess it was probably four years or five years after that. I was like, well, I want to do. I want to join you. Because I. I loved what I did for, you know, part of it, and I worked with some great people and all that, but what I found was it really wasn't aligned with my values. It was aligned with somebody else's. Like, I. I was using someone else's definition of success and what I thought was a good life to work towards. And I was, like, really good at it. And I was like, okay, this is great, but it's not really who I was. So I wanted to really explore more of that and also just start living that life today as opposed to someday in the future.
- [14:52]
B
So what was the path to, you know, healing those traumas that were driving you so that you could actually end up being quite a bit more. What's the word I'm looking for, in line with. With who you really are? What was the. What was the. What was the path there? I'm sure it's a long path, but what was the start of that? Like, what. What was the. Like, I can't. I can't do this anymore. You know, I'm making all this money and I'm not happy, or I'm winning all these awards. I'm not happy. And what. By the way, what were you doing then, Mary Beth? So what was. What were the awards for? What sort of an innovator were you?
- [15:42]
C
Yeah, I ran a young professionals group for the United Way. So the. If you're familiar, United Way is a nonprofit organization. It's a global nonprofit. So it's kind of like a franchise organization where there's locations all over the country. And the young professional program that I developed became dubbed as the global best practice model. So I started training leaders all over the world on how to engage young professionals in philanthropy. So it was through volunteerism, philanthropy advocacy, and really getting a lot of people involved. So the program that I developed had quadrupled in the first three months that I took over from doing some what I thought was really basic shifts in the culture and the way that you engage humans, because it was natural for me. And it was something that I thought was like, well, why wouldn't I do it that way? And that actually helped me to realize this is an actual gift. And that was really the stepping stone to be able to go out and start our own business, because that's where the business started, was going into organizations and helping to see where were they in and out of alignment with their values. And how could you create a culture that was truly in alignment and creates an environment where people want to be there versus they're told they have to be there and that kind of thing. But as far as my. My healing journey is concerned, it was really in that peak when I was getting all those accolades that because I ran a young professionals program, James would come because he is a young professional, right? He could come to my event. So I would see him all the time, right? He was always at my. He was supportive. Always a very supportive partnership here. But it was the kind of thing where one morning he rolled over in bed and because he worked in finance, he was usually up around 5am and he looked at me and he said, it's so good to see you. And I was like, what are you talking about? I see you all the time. And he was like, well, I see you, but when I wake up in the morning, you usually have either fallen asleep on the couch with your laptop on your chest or you've already started working. And so I don't really open my eyes and see you in the morning. And I just wanted to tell you how nice that was. And it was like this moment of such clarity because it came through such love. It was such a moment of love, of like, this is something that we're missing out on. And he wasn't saying that. He was saying how nice it was that it was present, but it was like it really had a lightning bolt just run through my body. And it was, I have a problem and I don't know what to do about it. And that was when I got help. So that's when I started to reach out and Start to ask questions about, well, who can help you with racing thoughts? Because the primary reason that he didn't see me was because I would wake up almost every single night or morning at 3am and my racing thoughts were so strong and so mean that I couldn't just lay there. I had to start working. That was the only thing I knew to do to get them to slow down and to get them to stop yelling at me. And so.
- [19:10]
B
Can I ask you, were they yelling at you to work? Like, what are you doing lying in bed? Like you could be, if you're awake, you could be doing something.
- [19:19]
C
So it's like, why don't you work on that project? You have time to do it now. If you don't get ahead of that, you are not going to be seen as a go to person for that. You know, if you don't, you have time right now. So why don't you knock that out and then you'll give yourself some extra time to make that other thing happen during the day. So it was this weird rationalizing, like it was a really unhealthy, if you're awake you might as well just get a couple things done, right? And so it was like the little devil on your shoulder that's like coaxing you into making all the choices that are just protecting your own hell, you know, just creating this environment where it feels like the only choice. And so when I, when I said I knew I needed to get help, it was, I needed someone to teach me that there were other choices and what to do when you are in those moments so that you don't just go into your default programming. And that's when I started to go into psychodynamic therapy and mindfulness based therapy. And my therapist, thank goodness, is one of the most amazing gurus and mentors and teachers that I've ever worked with in my life. I don't know that she would label herself in that way, but that's how I receive her. And that was really the beginning of the healing journey was just to know that you can make another choice. I just didn't know what that choice was.
- [20:51]
B
So this is really interesting because you were already kind of a mentor for these young professionals. And so did you, did you have a background in that sort of thing? Just study that in college you said you had a gift and I'm not sure if, if you could do that because that's just how you are or you had an education in being able to do that. Like how did you get into that line of Work.
- [21:20]
C
I think it's a combination. So I did go to school for social work. So I got my social work and I got my master's in nonprofit management. So I definitely had an educational background in sort of like frameworks, philosophi, understanding human dynamics. And ever since I was a kid, I was always the person that everybody told their secrets to. You know, I was always the one that was on the phone all the time because everybody called when they were crying and needed support. I was everybody's maid of honor. You know, it was sort of a natural.
- [21:56]
A
Just like random people you meet on the street will start telling you everything about them.
- [21:59]
C
I'm very good friends with lots of cashiers. It's just one of those things that I think energetically people feel safety.
- [22:08]
B
Yeah, I definitely, I definitely picked, I definitely picked up on that. When I met you at the horse expert, you know, like five minutes in, we're like, we went deep pretty quick, you know.
- [22:18]
C
Yeah, it was three minutes and we were talking about major transformational life experiences of. Yeah, just meeting at your booth at the expo.
- [22:26]
A
So.
- [22:26]
C
Yeah, it's that, it's that. That has been a very normal experience for me my whole life. And it's something that I didn't know was a gift. In fact, I used to think it was a burden. And so now I really treasure and honor that as. As a gift that is cultivated.
- [22:46]
B
Okay, so let's go back to you, James. You said you were an athlete, always athletic as a kid, and so you had a lacrosse scholarship.
- [23:03]
A
Yep, yep. So I got a. When I was a kid, that was like the one thing I wanted the most was to get a scholarship to play college across. So I was grateful and fortunate to. To make that happen. And it was a certain lifestyle that I thought was one that again aligned with what I wanted. And I did enjoy. I enjoyed it. I was really good at it. And it really just kept. It really helped me feel this competitiveness that was inside of me that I, when I was younger, I used to wear it as like a badge of honor. And I still, it's still a muscle that I, when I need it, like, I can turn it on. But I also realized like some, in some ways I was being competitive in a way that was more detrimental to my well being than, than others. And so that really continued in finance and sales because I was like, well, I'm in real world now, like sales. That's the way I can still compete. I can be the top person, top salesperson. I can be the sales manager. I can do all these things. And I always did enjoy, like, being able to see, like, okay, I'm putting energy towards something and I'm getting something back. So that was what kind of drew me in with that. And so I kept. Kept going with that for a while, which fueled me. But then once I saw Mary Beth change, I was like, oh, wait a second. Like. Like, I can change too. Like, can I change too? Like, can I do this? So as oftentimes, like, we often talk about, like, we're often like a. Like a bike wheel. Like, one of us in the front while one was in the back. And we kind of like rotate so with the pedals, right?
- [24:35]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:36]
A
This is one where she was definitely in the front first and I was in the back. And then I was like, oh, okay, like, I'm. Time for me to pedal on forward.
- [24:43]
C
It was the best. It was the best moment when he was like, I want some of what you're having.
- [24:47]
A
Yeah. So I started that journey. And it also started because when I was in my late 20s, I had a really bad back injury where they told me I could be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. I was going to have all these surgeries. I was going to be on these pain meds. Like, I felt like ice spit going to my spine. And I was like, okay, this is a wake up, A wake up call for me. And I, of course, being an athlete, like, the first thing was I got to take care of my physical body. So I did those things. But then I realized, okay, there's more, another step that's the mental side of things. And then it really all clicked in when I realized that the third step, which is the spiritual side of things, the spiritual healing. So I started, and I often find, like, you know, we go on our healing journeys in the way that we're meant to receive them and kind of like the baby step. So, like, it was very easy for me to have, like, a physical injury and be like, okay, I gotta. I gotta do something about this. But then I realized, like, okay, I'm taking care of my body, but when I'm feeling stressed, like, my back is hurting. And so it was really connecting all these dots along the way with that to really find, really get me started. And then it's like one of my mentors always says, like, once you wake up, you can't go back to sleep. So it's like, once we started this healing journey, it was like, there's a lot to heal back in here.
- [26:04]
B
Yeah, once you see, you can't unsee it, isn't it?
- [26:06]
A
Yeah.
- [26:07]
C
Yeah. And tell him what the doctor said when he saw your back after.
- [26:10]
A
Oh, yeah, he said I had the back of a 70 year old person. I had like no cartilage in my spine in certain areas. Is. And so, yeah, it was like very.
- [26:20]
C
And then.
- [26:20]
B
So is that all, Is that all from Pine lacrosse?
- [26:24]
A
It, you know, it was some. It was one of these things where I always kind of. Well, when it happened, I was playing lacrosse and it was actually after college, I was just playing in kind of like a rec league and I went to catch a pass, like, went off and then like, I literally stood up in my. I was crooked. Like, my spine, I was like literally crooked. And I just kind of shook it off at first because I was still pretty young at the time. And then Mary Beth saw me the next day and I couldn't get out of. Couldn't get out of bed and it was crooked. So she was like, we got to do something about this. But yeah, so I, I went from that to then the doctor being like, I. I don't know what happened. Like, your spine is like all, like your cartilage is regenerated. Like your spine looks completely fine after doing the healing work. And that for me, as somebody who was much more in the rational side of my brain for a long time, realized like, okay, there's more than this healing, than just taking some medicine or surgeries or doing some physical therapy. Like, this is a whole body healing, which that has just really expanded from there.
- [27:27]
C
And I give James's spine credit for all of the beginning of our spirituality. It was through his spine, his spinal issues, that James started researching what are the richest people in the world with this disease do? Because I want to see what are the other non surgical practices. And one of them was transcendental meditation. And so he's like, hey, you want to like, go with me to this transcendental meditation thing? I don't really know what it is, but I hear it can regenerate the tissue around your spine. You want to try? And I was like, all right, I guess I'll try. Like, it was like that, you know, and so thank goodness that, that really was something that began our, our journey and opening up into that, that other dimension of healing and in the spiritual space that neither of us had any connection to prior.
- [28:18]
B
That's interesting, James. You. You went, okay, so what, what is the. I love that. What, what's the richest people in the world that have this problem? What are they doing with it? Like can you. Can you throw money at this problem?
- [28:31]
A
Yeah. I was like, do I need to go down to, like, Panama and get some stem cells injected?
- [28:35]
C
Right?
- [28:35]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I read a great. I read a great quote recently. It said, if you have a problem that can be solved with money, and you have money, you don't have any problems.
- [28:53]
A
That is a great quote.
- [28:55]
B
So, like, if you can afford to fix the problem, it's not a problem. Don't stress about it. You know, I love that quote. If you. If you have a problem that can be fixed by money and you have the money to fix it, you don't have any problems.
- [29:08]
C
Yep.
- [29:09]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It makes. It makes me think of just how so many people get stuck suffering in their. Their own hell.
- [29:15]
C
Right?
- [29:15]
A
We get. We stuck. We. We get stuck in this situation where we don't think we can change. We don't think we can do anything about it. But that's when you said that I was like, yeah, it's like it's. It's taking the action because it's scary sometimes to start going on this journey and looking at different parts of yourself and. And doing the work. But it's. I've never been. I've always loved it and. And really appreciate it after the fact sometimes. It might be a little challenging at times, but it's always good at the end.
- [29:43]
B
So the. The TM was. You guys start down that path.
- [29:50]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It was because we heard about meditation. I'd listen to again. I was listening to what a lot of successful people did. It's like everyone pretty much.
- [29:59]
C
Productivity hacks.
- [30:00]
A
Yeah, productivity hacks. How can I. Productive or efficient or this or that. And we tried a bunch of different types of meditation, and none of them really stuck. But then I heard. Kept hearing more and more people talk about TM and tm and then we went to our local center and. Damn. It's probably been over 10 years now that we've been doing it every. Every morning. That's how we start our day. And that was like the first, I think, way for us to really start connecting more with our spiritual side because we were just always in that doing mode. It was like the first time where we ever really kind of stopped to really be open to whatever messages we were there to receive as opposed to just having our mind keep going and going.
- [30:44]
B
We. See, that's the thing. Like, you were saying that you were, you know, drinking to numb. I love the way you put the phrasing. You said. You said you were drinking to numb the. I don't know if you said the voices or the messages that were trying to come through. And. Yeah, that's the thing about those spiritual practices, those practices of being still. And it opens you up to. To receive those messages from what I've learned to be your highest, you know, can be your higher self or your higher you. Yeah. It's interesting. You. Mary Beth, you said something about you were both drinking quite heavily at some point in time.
- [31:33]
C
Yeah. It was normal practice to drink a bottle of wine at the end of the day.
- [31:39]
B
Each.
- [31:40]
C
Well, a minimum together, but sometimes each depending on the day.
- [31:44]
B
Okay.
- [31:45]
C
I'm talking, like, a Monday night, like, just.
- [31:47]
A
Well, Meredith loved her champ. Or on Sunday, she'd drink a bottle of champagne for, like, on my own and rationalize that. Yeah.
- [31:54]
B
Because I was wondering was, how much alcohol was it? But you're talking a couple of glasses of wine.
- [32:04]
C
Well, James, I don't know.
- [32:07]
A
I had a lot more than a.
- [32:08]
C
Couple glasses of wine, but, yeah, like, I found him on the side of the road in a ditch kind of situation, like, not knowing where he was.
- [32:17]
A
Yeah. Not every. Well, but, yes, it was. So, yes, there would be times, because I was very much in the mindset, too. Especially, I mean, college. That's, you know, being an athlete. It's like, you work hard, and then you have one night to really go out and then. And work. It was like, you work hard all week, and then you go out.
- [32:33]
C
Yeah. I just carried the mindset over into the next phase of life of, like, oh, that's normal. You had a stressful time. Just drink it away.
- [32:46]
B
Okay, so TM was the. The. The beginning of this. What was. Because you got. We had a chat at the horse expo, and you guys are. You guys are down the rabbit hole. What was your. What was the next. What was the next little tunnel on your rabbit hole that you went down?
- [33:04]
C
Was that what was next?
- [33:05]
A
It was probably. So we. We had not done, again, listening to other people. Have they been waking up? And I would. We kept hearing more people talk about their plant medicine journeys and so forth. And we had never done plants anything at the time. And in regards to that, and we just kept getting these. At least for me, I wanted to do it for a while.
- [33:29]
C
And you found out that it could heal your spine. It was on the list. It was on the list of what the richest people in the world did.
- [33:34]
A
I was like, what are the things? Like, I can do, like, all the holistic methods. Like, I don't want to have back surgery. So, like, what are certain things that I Can do. And just see. I'm very much a. I like to experiment and try things. So I'm like, hey, I'll be open and, and, and see what happens. And I had probably. It probably was like a year or two that I had kind of been considering or considering it. And Mary was more of like, I was too scared. Yeah, too scared. And then one of our friends sent us a link to something and we're like, okay, this is the sign. This is it. This is a sign.
- [34:09]
B
So, Mary Beth, what were you scared of?
- [34:14]
C
I have a pretty intense trauma history and I had at that point invested a lot of energy in therapy and was afraid that I would be taken back into trauma reenactments through the medicine that I did not want. Want to experience again.
- [34:43]
B
Yeah.
- [34:45]
C
And so that was like the. I don't know about this. I don't know if this is actually gonna be good. James and I had very different reasons. You know, he really was there primarily for his spine to, to be able to regenerate the tissue around his spine. And that happened. I mean, it was amazing. But his experience was a complete opposite end of the spectrum of my experience in the sense of like, his was all about like expansion and creation and like love and abundance. And mine was about like, let's go into the darkest caves and.
- [35:20]
B
Right. Yeah. No, I, I had there for you.
- [35:24]
C
Thankfully, I had a very positive experience in that I did feel like a lot of that weight of my trauma history that I hadn't even looked at because I wasn't willing to look at it healed. And I witnessed it in ways that I could not explain in normal day to day conversations with people. You know, it was a very extreme spiritual experience that I could see spirit with my eyes open. And also what I could experience with my eyes closed was just. It was the kind of thing that you just don't come back from that. From a sense of. You can't see that and then think that there isn't something so much bigger, so beautiful. So many of your spirit guides and ancestors and angels are always here for you. Hair guiding and helping you. And I saw that in my darkest memories in these ayahuasca journeys.
- [36:28]
B
Do you guys go to South America.
- [36:30]
A
To do Costa Rica?
- [36:32]
B
Costa Rica. Okay, cool. Costa Rica is beautiful.
- [36:35]
C
Yeah.
- [36:37]
B
So that was you. That was the next. That was the next step. Have you, have you been more than once?
- [36:44]
C
No, we did four ceremonies in the.
- [36:48]
B
But that was the only four ceremonies in a week. How so I did. I went to a place in Florida. We did three in, like, two days. Like, Friday night, Saturday lunchtime, Saturday night. Like, I'm just wondering, wow, like, was it easier for you guys each time? Like, yes. Or was it like, oh, I had a glimpse. I'm not sure I want to go back there again.
- [37:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, I'm. Well, very different. I was excited. I got really excited because I could remember the saying. Like, I had a really amazing experience with it. Like, I just really felt more connected with myself and my heart and, like, the love around me and. And by the last set, like, the last night, I was, like, really excited because I was like, this is going to be the night. Because the night. Well, one night, I had my whole body rewired, where the person next to me is like, I don't know what's happened to you, but I was, like, contorting. But I was like, it was the spirit, like, helping to realign everything in my body. So the final night, I was just really excited because I was. I had got that realignment that I was looking for and just seeing, because every night was different. So it was a different. Different type of different medicine, different shaman. Different shamans. So it was a different experience, which was really nice, too. And before I went into the experience, like, we were doing holotropic breath work and other things like that, so it really kind of led up to. In the last night was, like, the most. Well, I wouldn't say most intense, but they definitely built up the last night. But there was a bill. Yeah, the last night was the longest, so it was a slow bill, which I think was a nice way to do it. But I was super excited. I did think, like, right after I got back, I was gonna go book another trip back, but then I was like, oh, no. It didn't quite. It just didn't. It wasn't calling me at the time. And it's not to say, like, if I feel called again, like, I would definitely be open to it. But it was in those. In that week, I definitely got the kind of, like, blast off or that next phase in my spiritual journey, because.
- [38:51]
C
That was definitely a blast.
- [38:52]
A
Yeah, because we. We had done some, like, channeling and worked with some people before that, which really opened some things. This was, like, the first. Like, oh, okay. Like, there's a whole nother thing out there because I grew up Catholic. And then I was like. It never quite resonated with me. And then I thought I was going to go atheist, and then I was like, spiritual life wasn't a thing. And after this, as Mary was saying, it's like, once you see all that kind of stuff, it's like, yeah, there's. There's more here. And I feel a lot better. Like, when my spirit was awakened and how do I keep feeling that alive?
- [39:21]
C
And I was crying and didn't want to go to the last ceremony and had to have one of the retreat facilitators hug me and hold me and talk me through why I came and if I would like each my choice if I want to go there. But I was like, I'm done. I've done enough work. I don't want to do any more work. But I went, and it was lovely. And I'm really. It was. I'm really glad that I did the final ceremony.
- [39:43]
B
But, yeah, I was just wondering, you know, I was. I was kind of wondering, you know, because there's intention setting in the whole bit leading up to it. And I was thinking about that last ceremony, if you were like, I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there. Wonder if that affected the medicine at all. You know, was the medicine more gentle to you or, you know, like, oh, yeah, super gentle.
- [40:07]
C
And that was the intention that I sent, that I. That I set was, please be gentle with me. I would like to close this experience with integrity, with my heart. Right. And so it was very gentle. And I spoke to the shamans in advance, so they knew what I was. I was going through. And so they were able to support me a little bit differently throughout that ceremony as well. But I'll tell you, one of the most beautiful things, the thing that actually shifted everything for me is that they had this one dog at this place that we went to who never was ever a part of the ceremonies, but was always running around the space throughout the day. And just like a really sweet, kind of like a street dog kind of vibe of this dog. I. I don't even know if it was their dog or a stray dog. But as soon as the last ceremony started and we laid down, this dog came running in and just laid on me, really just laid on my body and licked me. And the ceremony hadn't even begun. It was just like. It was the starting of settling in. And this dog stayed with me. And then when I felt better, the dog got up and ran away and never saw the dog again for the rest of the. The ceremony. So it was like, you know, it felt like I had this other spirit guide in dog form that was saying, hey, like, you're okay. I'm gonna remind you that it's okay.
- [41:40]
B
Wow. That. They know, don't they?
- [41:42]
A
They do.
- [41:44]
C
They do.
- [41:46]
B
They know so much. Okay, so what. What was next after that? You guys are on your way. How was the holotropic breath work? Did you guys enjoy that?
- [41:56]
A
Oh, yes.
- [41:56]
C
Amazing, amazing. We still appreciate being able to do it and have the skills to do it on our own, you know, whenever we want to go into a big release. So holotropic breathwork is really a specific breathing pattern that creates an experience for you that feels like you're shooting off into outer space. Right. You can really get into almost like a psychedelic experience with your own breath. And that is very empowering to know the skills and the tools to go there and to be able to get to a different place of consciousness as a result of using your own breath. So that was something that we learned first in that experience and then continued to do afterwards. In fact, they had taught us to do five minutes every morning to sort of jumpstart your day. Instead of going for the coffee, do five minutes of holotropic breath work and see what shifts for you. And that was really profound. But I would say after that, we got really deeply into the foundations of. Really core foundations of mindfulness and being able to understand how to use things like our breath, our mindset, gratitude, connection to spirit. Oh, and, you know, I guess what was next is that we started to go on a journey of understanding shamanism.
- [43:19]
A
And we started working together.
- [43:20]
C
And we started working together. Yeah. But after. After we experienced such a beautiful container with these shamans, we got really curious about the traditions and what traditions that we could be able to infuse into our habits and routines and lifestyle. And so we started working with shamans to teach us things like water ceremonies and tree ceremonies and power animal ceremonies and. And spirit guide connection and knowing how to use rattles and drums to tune into different frequencies and levels of consciousness. And that, I would say, was the like, okay, now we've really changed as people because now this is a part of our regular way of existing and solving problems and seeing what other answers there could be that we're not. Not going to figure out through the rational mind. We were really tapping into the connection that. That created for us with nature and what that created with our spirit guides and our. In our spirit community.
- [44:29]
B
And where. Where did you find shamans to work.
- [44:33]
A
With a foundation for shamanic studies? So it's a foundation that was founded by Michael Harner a long time ago, and they have trained people, so it's. They've kind of Looked at all the different cultures throughout the world and kind of created this, like, core curriculum, if you want to say, of like these core foundations, and really are going to make it accessible to people who wants. Who want to explore them more. So we found a couple local people that we really kind of love and they were putting on workshops and trainings and. And we just started going and kind of. Yeah. Experimenting. Trying it and seeing what happens. Because we were still. Even though we had just had that huge plant medicine experience, I would say I was. We're still kind of really new to the whole spiritual side of things. But this is a way of like, being like, okay, we can enhance this and do it in ways that are more accessible than then going to Costa Rica all the time.
- [45:33]
B
Right?
- [45:34]
C
Yeah.
- [45:34]
A
So it was more of like, how do we make it a daily practice? Because we're very much into our. Our daily practices and how we can activate those. So it's like, what are some things that we can pull from that, that we can stay connected even if we're not in a, you know, a bigger ceremony?
- [45:50]
B
Super exciting. Okay, shamanism, then what? Because I know you guys have, like, you guys have been down some rabbit holes. What. What came after that?
- [46:02]
A
Oh, man. Well, we started. So, I mean, shortly after that we decided to start. Start working together, which. So I left. Marybeth had already had her business in place for a couple years and I just. After, you know, a lot of these experiences, I was just like, what are we doing? Like, why are we waiting? Like, let's just start. We know we want to. What we want to do. Let's just start making that a reality today. So we started working together and growing that way. And then we really just started going deeper into these practices. So we started.
- [46:31]
C
Oh, yeah. Our rituals and routines. That's when they really got intense. Yeah, we have a very intense morning ritual and.
- [46:38]
A
Yeah. But as like breath work and meditation and gratitude. And we do try to connect, I'd say. I mean, we connect pretty much every day with our probably spirit. Spirit team.
- [46:50]
C
Yeah.
- [46:50]
A
Our cosmic crew, like to call them. But so we've gone through that, through like so many different practices with that and also have still use different medicines along the way to kind of enhance our. Our growth with that. With intention. I mean, I think that was like the biggest thing that we've learned. Like, a lot of our friends are like, why did you wait so long to. Like, a lot of our friends were using a lot of this stuff, you know, for party and that kind of stuff. We're like, no, that's not what we're doing it for. We're doing it for.
- [47:17]
B
Right.
- [47:18]
A
Exploration. We're doing it for connection. We're doing it for healing. We're doing it to grow. But really, the healing journey, you know, continued, you know, quite a bit after that, continuing to do those type of practices, but then also just growing and going on. Like, we started to apprentice under Don Miguel Ruiz and his son, Don Jose Ruiz. So he wrote the Four Agreements, and we started to travel, travel with them, learn more of those practices, and really just kind of tech traditions. We'll get to the point.
- [47:49]
B
So you guys were traveling with Domagoise?
- [47:52]
C
Yes.
- [47:53]
A
Yeah, yeah, we got there.
- [47:54]
B
Really okay. We've had so many people on the podcast, you know. What's your favorite book? The Four Agreements.
- [47:58]
C
Yes. Yeah.
- [48:00]
A
Super cool.
- [48:01]
C
We were so fortunate, actually. The trip that we wound up taking with him. We did two trips, but the second trip, the last one, when we went to Mexico and we went to Teotihuan to be able to actually go to see the. The. The pyramids and to learn the history firsthand. Don Miguel was there with his sons, and on the trip. Trip, he announced that was his final trip. That was the last one he was doing. So we were so grateful that we chose to go for it, because it was the last time that he took a group of people that were following his work into teaching them firsthand there.
- [48:42]
A
Yeah. And it was right before COVID started, too. So it's like this very interesting timing of just how it all worked out.
- [48:48]
C
2020. Yeah.
- [48:50]
B
Wow. And how did you get get involved with him? I mean, there's one thing going to a bookstore and buying the Four Agreements and reading it. Another thing actually getting to hang out with him and. And travel to Mexico with him. How did all that come about?
- [49:04]
A
Yeah, we went to. So after we got back from our ayahuasca trip, we.
- [49:12]
C
On the plane.
- [49:12]
A
On the plane, we. This person told us, next to us was like, hey, I forget what.
- [49:17]
B
We.
- [49:17]
A
We started talking about things and.
- [49:19]
C
Yeah.
- [49:19]
A
And then she's like, oh, there's this gathering of the shamans in Sedona. And we're like, oh, this great. Because we were in the place of, like, we want to learn more, we want to absorb more, we want. We want to learn more of this. And because you had. Well, you had read the book a long.
- [49:33]
C
A long while ago in high school.
- [49:35]
A
And then I think she gave it to me. Like, we got this, and I read it afterwards. It was like, one of those books is just really resonated and we saw the Ruiz family was going to be there and some other people that we were interested in learning from. So we just went. And really what, what stuck the most for me was I was in a place where. Where I've. I've always had a balance with my masculine and feminine energy. Like, I'm naturally more feminine. I can turn my masculine energy on, but it's usually in non productive ways through, you know, a lot of that was through sports or doing unhealthy type things. And when we were there, I went to see one of his sons. We went to see him speak and other sons and his. And one of his sons, Jose, was speaking. And I still remember it to the day is I was in the front row listening to him speak. And he finished speaking, he literally jumps off the stage and then just like hits me like right in my heart. And like, like, not like physically just like tapped on my heart and it was like. So it was just like a huge.
- [50:34]
C
And then you like held each other.
- [50:36]
A
Yeah. Which I was like, I never felt that connection.
- [50:39]
C
That was their first exchange with anything else.
- [50:40]
A
And it was just like this heart, you know, expansion experience. I was like, okay, there's. I'm getting goosebumps talking about it.
- [50:47]
B
But he just tapped you on the chest.
- [50:50]
C
Yeah. And he jumped off the stage to James, did that. And then they held each other. Yeah, that was the first thing he did after he like basically delivered a keynote address. Yeah.
- [51:00]
A
I'm like, oh, whoa.
- [51:02]
B
He could sense something.
- [51:03]
C
There it was. And then they had the same kind of embrace in. In Mexico when we traveled with them. And. And yeah, I would say it was one of those experiences. If anybody has ever had the gift and honor of being in the presence of Don Miguel Ruiz and his sons, Don Jose and Don Miguel Jr. It is the kind of experience where I think the only time, and I look forward to that not being the case in the future, but the only time I've ever experienced the vibration of unconditional love being at such a high volume that you could not feel anything else but that because he and his. His kids, you know, that are doing this work together, they live it at such a high emanation that like their frequency, it like adjusts your frequency the second you're in their presence. And so particularly with Don Miguel, it was the kind of thing that when we were at the gathering of the shamans, our first exposure to him in person outside of reading the book book, I also had a really long embrace with him, you know, and it was A really powerful feeling of, I want more of this kind of energy in my life. I want to learn how I can emanate at that vibration. And why wouldn't I want to learn that from the person that I just experienced that with? Right. And so we were very fortunate that he had programming and offerings. So it was the kind of thing that. That, like the rabbit hole, like, there's always the next thing to find. And so as long as you're paying attention, we were paying attention. And so we saw that opportunity to travel and go through the apprenticeship experience and jumped on it right away and now have developed really beautiful relationships with their family. And it's just. It's one of those things that you think. You read it, you read a book when you're in high school, and you never know how that's going to impact your life. To that becoming one of the most influential people, I would say probably my entire life, I. I can. I can project forward and say that he will have been one of the most influential people in my entire life, without a doubt.
- [53:21]
B
So that's interesting that there's an actual energy and a vibration.
- [53:26]
C
Oh, my gosh.
- [53:28]
B
I don't know if you. Have you guys ever. Did you guys ever watch the Netflix series Wild, Wild Country?
- [53:34]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [53:35]
B
About. About the Bhagwan, the Indian holy man who bought the place in Oregon. And after he gets into trouble and he goes to jail and one of his followers was a lawyer. And so because he was his lawyer, he was allowed to go visit him in jail. And he said, and in the. The TV show, he says, I would go to visit him in jail just to be in his presence and feel his energy. And I'm like, I wonder what that feels like.
- [54:06]
A
Yeah.
- [54:07]
C
You'll never forget it. When you feel it. It is like your body receives it on a cellular level. And it's like it just calms all fears and it takes over in this. It's the thing I can like, liken it most to is like the feeling of falling in love. Love, you know, when you just go kind of like a little crazy because you're like, you know, they're. You're in the beginning and everything's so perfect and wonderful, but it's the emanation of unconditional love, which is this. It doesn't matter how you act or behave or how. What you choose. He says this all the time. I don't care what you choose to do with my love. You can throw it in the trash. I don't. That has no impact on me. That's always your choice, you know, so it's. It's the thing for me that was the most powerful was knowing he was in the room without seeing him. Because I could feel the vibrations change in my body. And then you just look for him right. Once you. One time he was right behind me with his hand on my shoulders, and I was like, yeah, it's running through my body.
- [55:20]
B
Wow. Wow, that's quite. And so tell me about this thing in Sedona, this gathering of shamans. That must have been super cool. I mean, Sedona itself's amazing. So imagine all them being there was super cool.
- [55:32]
A
Oh yeah, yeah. Did a firewalk. Got to learn from a bunch. It was. It was basically at this retreat space and that was our first time in Sedona. So if you've never been to Sedona too, like, there is an energy that like, do you feel and. Oh, yeah, I'm sure it's like. Yeah, it's like. I'm sure I felt those things all throughout my life, but I wasn't open to being like, what it is. And then like, when you get there, you're like, oh my gosh, like, I can feel a difference. It's like when we go to our place in the mountains, like, I feel so much different there than I do do in the city. But it really was an opportunity to like have all these different teachers from the Ruiz family. Stephen Farmer, who does a lot of work with animals, who. I was like, really. I. A huge animal person. So I was really interested in his work. And then they had a bunch of other people as well there who really just. It was like a bunch of talks, a lot of activities. You could do different things. But it was one of the things too, I think I realized, and I'm sure you might have anyone who's gone on like a spiritual type retreat. It's also like the people you meet there. Because I'm very. I very much. It's like the one space where I was starting to feel like I could just be myself. Like I could be free. I could talk about these things that my friends would be like, what are you talking about? This woo woo stuff, like you're crazy type. But it was like the first time where I started to really meet people who I could relate with on that level and not feel like, you know, there's something wrong with me or that kind of thing. So that was like a big.
- [57:04]
B
Right. You don't have to hold back.
- [57:06]
A
Yeah.
- [57:06]
B
And you can let your freak flag fly pretty Much. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can be authentic. Tell me about the guy with the animals. What's his story? Steven someone, Stephen Farmer.
- [57:19]
A
So he, so we have a lot of his oracle card decks. So he does a lot of work with like power animals. He does a lot of work with spirit animals. He also trained through the foundation for shamanic studies that we, we learned about. So he's big about connecting with animal spirits. So either spirit animals or what would be your power animal, which is basically a spirit that you can connect with that really invoke a source of power inside of you. So I am always, was always connected with animals, especially cats. And when I started doing more of this spiritual work, like I found out like my spirit animals were a tiger and a jaguar and my power animal was a lion. So I'm very much of a huge cat person in general. I've always just had a natural inkling towards cats. So an animal is pretty much any animal. So when I started learning more about different people in the space and I saw he was going to be there, I was like, oh, this would be great to just see how I can connect with this, this energy out there. Because I always had this connection with animals, but I never really realized what it was until I started going down the spiritual side and I was like, oh yeah, they're definitely very in tuned. Um, even if I wasn't at the.
- [58:32]
B
Time, I think cats are something else. You know, they, they, I think they can pick up on energies that a lot of other animals can't.
- [58:46]
C
And they're not just going to give you their love. Right. You really, Castle.
- [58:51]
B
Well, the thing with, the thing with cats is they're not actually domesticated and animals, they're what the term. I read, I read a thing about. Cats aren't domesticated animals. They're manipulative captives is what the term they use for him is. So we've got them captured. Okay. And they manipulate us, but they're not actually domesticated.
- [59:15]
C
Yeah, yeah. I watched somewhere, read somewhere that they're the only pet that you can put out into the wild that could survive because they will keep all of their if as long as they're not declawed. Right. Like, but have all their natural instincts to survive and they do not need to be trained. They would know what to do. And I was like, oh, well, that makes a lot of sense. That tracks.
- [59:37]
B
Yeah, no, I think they, I definitely think they, they operate on a, on a different level, almost alien sort of level.
- [59:46]
A
Yeah, for sure.
- [59:49]
B
Okay, so what other rabbit holes have you Guys, been down. This is exciting. This is fun here. And all this stuff.
- [59:54]
C
I mean, I can do a little laundry list, and you can see if you'd like to go down any of them.
- [59:59]
B
Okay. Your laundry list.
- [60:02]
C
Because we like a lot.
- [60:05]
B
I can tell James and I are.
- [60:06]
C
The kind of people who once. Once you've got your toe into the portal, like, we're gonna go all the way in, you know, like, we are not interested in being spectators. We really want to experience it and to have firsthand experience, to be able to come back and say, you know, this resonated or didn't, or, you know, how to use this kind of a tool. And I think that's really important in our work too. Of, of, of kind of doing it in a way that it actually feels accessible. Because I think a lot of times people think you have to be a certain kind of person in order to be spiritual. Right. Or you have to come from a certain kind of place in order to access things like power animals. Right.
- [60:48]
A
Or just healing in general.
- [60:50]
C
Or he. Yeah. What it means about you. And so, so for us, it was kind of like, let's try everything that we're invited to and everything that speaks to us and be on a very open, curious journey. So from that frame, you know, we've done. I've done like, Akashic record work. I've done past life work. We've done future life work. We've done. What are some other things?
- [61:19]
A
Things I'd say connecting. Yeah, connecting with our spirit guides. A lot of inner child healing.
- [61:26]
C
Yeah, lots inner child healing.
- [61:29]
A
A lot of what I would say unlearning, like learning how to unlearn. So we've gone. And we've. We've gone more like the rational side of things, like from reprogramming our brain and our thoughts and stuff. You know, I recently, through Marybeth, actually, she gentled a wild mustang last year. And then from that experience, like, I, I. We learned the emotion code. So I became a certified practitioner there, and I've been doing that kind of stuff. So it's like kind of all these. With these things are kind of connected, but it's really all connected to our own healing journey and just using, like, finding these different modalities that have really, you know, helped others and then trying it ourselves and, and seeing kind of what happens from there. Because we've. We've definitely had a lot of ups and downs, you know, over the. As everyone does over the past, like, couple years and times where we're like, is this Are we going to make it type thing versus to like, okay, everything is like, awesome and everything in between. And I think that really during those, like, waves of cycles of, you know, is it going to work? Is not going to work. Like, it's really been our mindset and our spiritual practices that have kept us grounded, even when sometimes it feels overwhelming at times.
- [62:39]
C
Yeah.
- [62:40]
B
Tell me about the Akashic records.
- [62:46]
C
So the Akashic records are this place where anybody can go to. You can look to think of it like a library. And it's a library that has filled and filled and filled and filled with all these records, right. Or books. And the idea is that you can pull a book off the shelf and get an answer for yourself in your package, past, present and future. Because it's already written in the records, right. And that you can access. You can access these records. And this is something that I had heard about for. This is actually something that I did most recently. I had heard about it for many years. I've seen lots of programs you can go through to learn how to access it on your own. I wasn't particularly turned on to figuring that out on my own. I really wanted to work with somebody who was a professional in that. And so there's a woman who I had been connected to online for many years, and then we developed a relationship offline. And she's just a really. A beautiful soul. And she said. She said she was ending her Akashic record readings. And I was like, well, I need to get this, you know, before. Before she stops offering them in this format. And what was really cool for me was you go into the session and it's pretty similar to if you've ever had like a psychic reading or a channeling or something, where somebody is basically giving you a download of what they're receiving based on channeling your energy. Right. Tuning into your energy. And what was really cool for me is almost every single time that I have some sort of reading done, I have a burning question or a burning desire or there's something that I must have the answer about. And I'm like, really banking on this session giving me some more information. And what was really cool is that all the questions that I had about the future and the past and what to expect, I actually already knew the answers. And so when she was telling me what was coming up, I was like, yep, that makes complete sense. I totally tracks. Got it. And so it was a really interesting thing. And I don't think that would be the case if I had done this even A year ago, a couple years ago, James and I went through the worst experience of our lives. The worst, just really barely hanging on type of life that we were living. And that was, if I had done a read, the same reading then I would have been like, oh, thank you. I'm so grateful. I needed all this information and this time it was more a really beautiful validation of what I already knew deeply was true. In my heart. There were some really cool things that I didn't know from a sense of like, oh, that's exactly what I thought versus like oh, I had that kind of feeling and now it's more solidified. So we have, we're very fortunate to have a legacy ranch in our family that we will become the caregivers for. It's 100 acre ranch in Idaho. And, and she told me through reading my records that in previous lifetimes I had tended to this land already. This was something that I already had in my system, that I actually led an entire group of humans through the tending of this land and that what I was doing now, because now we're in the process of really becoming homesteaders and creating a off grid type lifestyle for ourselves there, which is a very big difference from being a work addict. Big end of the other end of this spectrum. But when she said that to me, I just had this deep feeling that what I've been telling people for so long because I don't know what I'm doing right? Like I don't have experience, my I, I don't have this. Years and years and generations and generations of teaching us how to homestead and teaching us how to live off land, we have none of that, none of that exists in the way you might look at it from a traditional perspective of kind of just looking at your family. But every time somebody asks me about it, I always say, I've already done this before. I'm just remembering, I'm remembering and I don't know where that came from, but that's something that I just felt. It just feels like, yes, I'm technically learning this for the first time right now, but I deeply feel that I have done this for many lifetimes and this is my destiny to keep moving forward into it.
- [67:31]
B
So tell me about your homesteading plans. This is interesting.
- [67:37]
C
Yeah, it's very, very exciting. You know, talking about.
- [67:42]
B
Sorry, sorry to interrupt before we go there. People should know that you live in the city, don't you?
- [67:48]
A
Yeah, right now we're in Baltimore City and we've lived here for 16 years and before 16, so.
- [67:58]
C
And I lived in Manhattan before that.
- [68:00]
A
Yeah. So, Cindy, I grew up in the suburbs, but, yeah, the. The mountains. I didn't. Mer first took me out there, I guess, like a dozen, 13 years ago, something like that. But we fell in love with it. And then during the pandemic, you know, Martha said we have. Fortunately, our. Our family has this legacy ranch, and they allowed us to buy. We bought a tiny home and started going out there for, like, weeks at a time. And then it was like, a couple months, and now. And then it was like, what are we waiting for? Like, let's just make this happen, like, right now. So that's kind of what kicked it off. And then this sense of our value of unity of nature and wanting to have more of that, and also our value of freedom and not feeling like we have to rely on other people or other things or other services or systems. It's like we want to start doing this ourselves. Unfortunately, where we are, it's a very communal aspect where there's a lot of, like, it's like the old school, like, barter system of, like, your one neighbor has this, your other neighbor has that, and let's, like, trade some things and all and kind of figure it out. So the best. Yeah, but it's really just taking it one. One step at a time, too, of just, like, what's, like, the first step, because as with any, like, project and anything new, like, there's so much to do, but it's like, we always try to, like, break it down to, like, what are some small things that we could start with, like, what's already growing here that we grow more of, that.
- [69:20]
C
We can harvest, forage, like, what already exists, exist. Right. Like, what is already here on this land that we can have as a part of our lifestyle. And then what is going to grow here? Well, because we are at the top of a mountain, and so it's very, very hot when it's in the summertime, and it's very, very dry. And so not a lot of water. Not. And not a lot of access to water. James actually manually carries our water to our tiny home from a spring. And last year he carried nine tons of water by hand. So it's a very different lifestyle than, you know, being here where we're talking to you now in Baltimore City, where we can, you know, order something and have it delivered to us in a couple minutes. It's a. It's an extremely different shift.
- [70:08]
B
And.
- [70:08]
C
And really, the whole idea of the homestead is to not only create this kind of experience where we can feel deeply connected to the land, deeply connected to what is abundant and available to us all the time. Right. That we can just be more intentional about cultivating but also teaching others. You know, we know that a huge part of our purpose is to create experiences where we can show other people that this is also a choice. Choice. You know, this is also a choice. And maybe you're not going to go all the way the way that we are, but there is some version that you can start taking your power back. And a big part of that is by disconnecting from technology and reconnecting to your humanity and being so deeply immersed in nature. And our horses are going to be a part of this experience, this healing experience too. But really having nature be that reflection of yourself, of your soul, of all that you need, because you already have it. And being able to reset in, in these types of environments I think is something that the majority of human beings are really missing out on. They really think it's about checking the boxes, getting everything done instead of like sitting on the top of a mountain and just looking at how amazing things are.
- [71:33]
B
Yeah, it's interesting you said about disconnecting and, and speaking of disconnecting, I'm talking social media here, but recently there's been something, I've seen it a couple of times. I may have seen it pop up on Facebook and there's a similar clip, but not the same clip popped up on Instagram about we are not supposed to know the news of the world. Yeah, you know, it was about, it was, you know, so we've all heard about how we used to live in groups of about 150 and once it was over 150, you'd split off into other groups because you can't, you can't maintain social contact with more than 150 people. You know, we've heard that for years and whatever. But then this thing recently I've been, it's popped up a number of times where it says, you're not supposed to know about a war somewhere else. You're not supposed to know about a famine here. You're not supposed to, you're not supposed to have the weight of the world on your shoulders. That's not how we evolved. You're supposed to know what's going on around here and that's about it. And I hadn't even thought of that. But like, yeah, we are not because, you know, for quite a while now I've been interested in our hunter gatherer roots and how, how are we supposed to live Sort of thing. And that was one thing I hadn't thought of, you know, this disconnecting from social media, whatever, but just news. That's the thought I was really interested. Interesting was you're not supposed to know the news, basically, you're not in evolve to have knowledge of all the stuff that's going on.
- [73:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, that is. That was like one of my biggest ahas, like many when I first started my own healing journey, like one of my person I was following was like, I mean, the news is there to capture your attention, right? It's the bleed that leads all that kind of stuff. And I forget the stats, but I remember seeing like how much information, like comes at us these days versus even like 50 years ago or 100 years ago and of course a thousand years ago. And it's like so much information. And this is like a big topic I have with, let's say, mainly my family, because when they're like, oh, you don't watch the news? I'm like, no, I don't don't watch the news. Like, I'll check in on some things, but I don't need to know what's happening. I don't even know what's happening over there. But then there's a part of me, it's like, well, well, if something bad's happening, like, I feel, you know, is it bad that I don't know that, or is it bad that or bad, you know, is it better that I don't? And I'm just in my own world and community versus thinking about all the things that could go wrong. Because it's just so much information these days that it's. It can be very, very overwhelming, for sure.
- [74:21]
C
And right now, Warwick, you know, particularly with our work, what's going on in the country with just so much uncertainty and people not knowing what's going to happen and generally just feeling a sense of out of control. That is primarily fueled by the news, right? That is primarily fueled by people being addicted to having somebody tell them what they should feel, right. And what they should be afraid of and what they should care about out and that that is definitely going to impact them. Right? And so the majority of our work, particularly since the new year, has really been around teaching people how to set boundaries and primarily how to set boundaries with themselves, starting with things like the news, right? And so how can you start to create a different relationship by saying, okay, I'm only going to check the news this time of the day and this frequency of the day, and before I open the news. I'm going to put my hand on my heart and ground myself and remind myself that these are unanswered prayers, that I get to choose how I receive them and what I do with them. Right. I get to decide the lens in which I'm viewing this versus it, taking over my mindset. Because so many people that I work with are, are leaders and they are expected to be aware of what the latest news is. And so it creates this interesting inner tug of war of what is the boundary of being an effective leader, but also being an effective leader internally. Right. Of like actually being okay, actually being able to be an island of peace in a sea of chaos. And so that has been the majority of our work is really teaching people those skills and techniques because it's so easy to get off kilter when the volume of noise around you, particularly social media, the news, you know, all of these online spaces is screaming at you that you should be afraid and that if you're not afraid, you're obviously not paying attention. So when you can learn how to start putting boundaries around that and protecting your own energy, that's when you can start to take your power back.
- [76:38]
B
I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to ask you, you know, I was going to ask you to share some, some of the sorts of things that you, you some of the sorts of information that you share with people and, and how does it help them? So talk a bit more about boundaries.
- [76:58]
C
Yeah. So I think that the biggest misunderstanding about boundaries is that people think they are about you getting other people to do what. Getting other people to do what you want.
- [77:07]
A
Or it's like a hard no.
- [77:09]
C
Yeah. Or it's like, this is the line, you better not cross it. Right. And one of my favorite quotes is, boundaries are the distance in which I can love you and me simultaneously. It's so beautiful when you start to reframe boundaries as an invitation for love instead of creating a hard no. Right. And there are absolutely times where a hard no is very appropriate and the best use of your energy, particularly in abusive situations where you need to put a hard foot down, right. And walk away or whatever it is that you need to do. But when it comes to sort of the everyday boundaries, like we were just talking about boundaries with the news, it's the type of thing that people often think it's like, oh, well, I can't believe James keeps putting the news on. Why does he keep turning on the news, right? Versus me saying, well, what control do I have over myself? Right. I Can choose to not be in that physical space when that happens. I can choose to say something with my voice and ask for that to be changed. I can choose to say that this is what let's hit. Create an agreement around expectations on when this is going to be on. But a lot of times people just think that boundaries are about getting the other person to do what I want and not recognizing that boundaries start within yourself and understanding where are you violating your own values, Values on a daily basis? Because, you know, my hands raised right now, I absolutely am somebody who has gone through that experience. The whole story that we shared when we started, I was violating my values all day long in how I was talking to myself, right? In how I was motivating myself from a place of fear and unworthiness and judgment. And so it's the kind of thing that the most powerful boundary you can ever have have is how you talk to yourself. And that's not something people usually see as a boundary, right? They're like, oh, that's just a mindset. But the truth is, boundaries are being able to say, this isn't working. What do I need to do so that it will work? And how can I do that from a place of love and alignment. And if you start looking at the way you talk to yourself is the first place for you to set boundaries, that's when you can start really seeing massive, massive transformations in your life. Because no longer are you thinking that if this other person just stops doing that thing, then I'll be okay. And you start taking the power back to what can I do in this moment to be okay? That has nothing to do with anybody else. And it doesn't matter how they react or respond. What power do I have in this moment moment to be able to. This is a framework that I, I say it's self awareness, self compassion and self care. So it's those three steps and the self awareness. Step one is noticing, just noticing. So being able to separate yourself from it happening like this is happening to me right now to, oh, I'm noticing that fear is present right now. I'm noticing that my armpits are sweaty. I'm noticing that I'm feel a little sick. I'm noticing that I have a repeated story that's telling me I'm not good enough. I'm noticing, right? So just the noticing, that's the self awareness. Then step two, the self compassion is the meeting that awareness with love. So a lot of times people think, okay, I notice that I'm judging myself. And then they judge themselves for judging themselves. Right.
- [80:43]
A
And start judging some more.
- [80:45]
C
Yeah, like, damn it, I should be further along. I've done so much healing work. I can't believe I'm still beating myself up for that. And then you're like, oh, I'm beating myself up for beating myself up. So the step two that self compassion is really the how can I now forgive myself? Right. How can I notice what I noticed and be okay with it and say, I forgive you, I forgive you, I forgive you, I forgive you. And that's a big step that I think a lot of people miss in their journey. They want to just jump to the next thought thought. They want to go as quickly as possible to the a fear to love. But the bridge between fear to love is forgiveness and starting with forgiving yourself. Like, I forgive myself for talking to myself that way. I forgive myself for feeling so overwhelmed. I forgive myself. It's okay, I forgive myself. And then that step three of self care, that's really any action that you take in your healing journey. So, so what can that first action be? Is that first action in reframing your limiting belief? So if you're telling yourself you're not good enough, you notice it, you forgive yourself, you can reframe that to I am exactly where I'm meant to be and I'm building my worthiness in every moment. Right. I am worthy as I am right now. Everything is exactly as it's meant to be for me. Showing me in this moment where I am to heal and where I'm to expand. So you can start to change the narrative, start to change the stories that it's actually fueling you from love. And then that's the first act of self care is how I talk to myself. How can you talk to yourself in a way that you're moving into a place of alignment instead of man? You're such a loser. You should have this figured out by now. It's like, no, this is such a gift that you have this awareness. And now I'm going to help myself. I'm going to be my own best friend by putting my arms around myself, wrapping myself in love instead of judgment and to be able to take the first baby step forward. And so it starts with the mindset, but then it can go into any other action. So maybe that's going out into nature. Maybe that's talking to somebody you love, maybe that's taking a bath. Right. But actually going through that process of noticing, forgiving yourself and choosing again is the most incredible framework that I Have used with thousands and thousands of people all over the world. Because it's a. It's a. It's a. It's a human experience. Like, this is not a unique Mary Beth thing. Right. This is a human shared experience that we have. And when you can start to realize, you know, I started this conversation saying I didn't know there was another choice. This is the other choice. This is the thing you can do and choose differently. And that starts with boundaries. Boundaries with yourself.
- [83:34]
B
Yeah. It's interesting. You were talking earlier on when you're talking about boundaries. It reminded me of someone who I. I think is very, very wise. Told me recently at Boundaries. She's. They. She said that boundaries are not something you expect. Some. It's. You don't tell other people about your boundaries. You don't say. You never say. You cr. That you just crossed a boundary. You enforce your boundary. You don't tell them. Them that they cross the boundary. You do something about the boundary being crossed.
- [84:07]
A
Yeah, because like, how is. How is the other person gonna know? I mean, I think that's like one of the biggest things that we've learned. And for me, especially as someone who isn't. Didn't really use my voice at all growing up, that's a big reason too, of when I was numbing was like, I didn't know how to express myself, talk about things. But it's like, when you can learn to have that communication. And I think, I mean, I know all of our different practices have allowed us to be able to feel confident in that and be able to know who we are, what we want, and ask for what we want. It's like being able to then communicate it in a way that is from a place of love is like, you said, like, you just crossed my path. Like, you know, right? Versus like, hey, like. Because, I mean, we do it to each other all the time. All the time. And it's like, hey, I know you weren't. This wasn't your intention. But like, let me just share how this. This impacted us. I think that's a big part too, is like, from a communication standpoint, it's very easy when a boundary gets crossed or like, when you get triggered to have like a triggered type response. And I've learned my lesson of like, yeah, that just doesn't ever, like, lead to anything that's productive. But if I be able to communicate from a way of like, here's how this made me feel. Here's like, what's going on? Like, it's. It's Such a better way to set those boundaries, either with your partner, your friends, your loved ones. Like, it's a great way to at least bring people into it and they might not understand it, and that's perfectly okay. But if you can speak that from an authentic place, like, it's just going to go so much, so much better.
- [85:37]
B
Right.
- [85:38]
C
I have this framework.
- [85:40]
B
Sorry, go ahead, Go ahead.
- [85:42]
C
I was going to say, I have this. This framework that expectations minus agreement equals disappointment.
- [85:50]
B
Yeah. Well, they say in relationships that the number one problem or killer is unmet expectations. The number one cause of resentment is unmet expectations. A lot of times, like you said, those expectations weren't clearly stated in the first place.
- [86:10]
C
Yeah. And assumptions, right. The assumptions that come and that we say, you should know by now.
- [86:17]
A
Now. Yeah.
- [86:18]
C
Right. That's a big one.
- [86:21]
A
One of Mar's favorite sayings is curiosity is a cure to all frustrations. Like, it's like, the more you ask questions, like, I know for me, I mean, we. Curiosity is a big value for us. And it's like, I've just learned so many frustrations because it's easy. I see it in a lot of people around me that are just assuming certain things. And it's like, well, did you. Did you ask. Did you ask them about that? Did you ask, you talk to them about that?
- [86:44]
C
Or are we just going to vent about it and not go in?
- [86:48]
A
Yeah, because it's like, there is a part of, like, I feel like, you know, the humans that like to complain together and all these type of. It's, like, interesting, like, where we are involved, where there's like, this group that gets together every morning and they're just at a certain energy of just, like, complaining about, like, the world and all these type of things. I was like, it's just fascinating to observe those things because there's obviously something there that they're feeling either connected or heard or so forth. But it's like one of those, where do you want to stay in that energy or do you want to rise above it and grow? And. And again, I think that goes what I was saying earlier. Like, people like to protect their hell or they don't want to change. They get stuck in these, like, ways of being. They don't realize there's another choice because that's oftentimes, I know for myself, like, unless until Mary Beth showed me there was another choice, I didn't know there was another choice. And it's like, oh, my gosh. Like, there's all this possibility out there.
- [87:35]
B
Yeah. A lot of Times. Those things weren't modeled to us as children. And you think about, you know, like, say my parents are mid-80s. You think about their generation. You know, men don't, men don't show emotions and women have to put up with a lot of.
- [88:02]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [88:03]
B
You know what I mean? And you don't, you don't. Communication was, I'd say the communication was pretty poor. War.
- [88:12]
A
Yeah.
- [88:12]
B
Back then, you know, so, yeah, we, you just don't have it modeled. Speaking of communication, have you guys ever looked into non violent communication?
- [88:21]
A
Yeah. By Marshall.
- [88:22]
B
Marshall Rosenberg.
- [88:23]
A
Yep. Yep. One of my teachers. That's one of the ones he recommends.
- [88:28]
B
Yeah, yeah. Fascinating. I've been, I've got, I've been listening to his audiobook and I, I haven't listened to it enough yet to where it comes naturally, but each time I listen to it just plants a little seed. Like. Yes, that's the way you could phrase that. Or that's the way you could. And, and it's the way you've put it. It's simple. It's really, really simple.
- [88:52]
C
Yeah.
- [88:53]
B
Yeah.
- [88:54]
A
Well, I think you bring up a good point too. Work of more like, we have so much to unlearn. Right. Like we, we, you know, depending on when you start this journey, like you could have have 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years of unlearning to do. And as you like, our parents, like, I know my parents did their best from what they've learned from and so forth. And one of my favorite quotes is from Carl Jung, basically said that every child is tasked with the unfinished business of their parents. And like, for me it's like, okay, I'm, I'm here to show my parents like I can grow in these areas that maybe they, they didn't feel like they could. So it's like, if I can, can then show up that way, then it's gonna make just I can then change like all those around me and show other people they can, they can change too. Because it's, it's.
- [89:40]
C
And that's happening.
- [89:41]
A
That's happening.
- [89:42]
C
It's so cool to witness it happening. And his parents are in their 80s.
- [89:45]
A
Yeah, yeah. So it's like cool to see like how those, you know, pieces can, can change just by, by doing the work and showing other people that it's possible. Because it's my parents, I guess when you're talking, I was like, yeah, that was very much, you know, certain, certain situations I could see a lot of that in my family and so forth. But it's like, hey, you can change?
- [90:11]
B
Yes, most certainly. So we should probably get to some of your questions because I'm sure these answers are going to be good.
- [90:16]
A
Okay.
- [90:18]
B
First one you chose was if you could spread a message across the world, one that people would listen to, what would would that message be?
- [90:25]
A
Don't wait to live the life you want. Like, start living it today and taking it one step at a time. I think that's. We used to think, you know, we are living in the mountains of Idaho was going to be 30 years from now. It was our retirement plan, retirement dream, and working together. And it's like I, you know, I used to think I had to work in finance till I retired, until we had, like, you know, all this extra money to do all these things. But it's like, no, you can make that. That happen today just by taking it one. One step at a time. And that would. That, to me is like the biggest shift in our life is just realiz. Changing that story of what I thought it was to be to have a career and all this type of things in life and business versus, like, what do I really want in life and why not make that happen right now? I mean, I saw some stat. It was like the age, you know, the actual at average life expectancy. It's like people die within like 10 years of retiring or like five years or something like that. You really only want five or 10 years of, like, doing that. And. And when I'm that old, too, I'm not gonna be able to do the things that I really want to do. So just make it happen now.
- [91:32]
B
Yeah. Homesteading is probably a bit harder when you're older.
- [91:35]
C
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
- [91:37]
B
It's funny, Mary Beth before, you said, like, you know, something about we could be homesteading instead of being a workaholic. And I was going to say different kind. You will be working all the time. Don't you worry. James will be carrying the water up the hill.
- [91:58]
A
Yes. But that's my favorite.
- [91:59]
C
I love energy.
- [92:00]
A
I love doing manual labor. It's like. Yeah, I get. Yeah. So it's like, perfect for. For me. So I do the labor part and then she does the more technical part. So it works out.
- [92:10]
C
Yeah.
- [92:12]
B
You know, my son and I went to Kenya a few years ago and went to spend a day with a Maasai tribe. And they. There's a. There's a well that they pump water from and they carry the water to the village. And my son was probably 17 at the time or something or other, and he wanted to. He wanted to carry water to the village. Village. And holy cow, that stuff's heavy. And like the, the mass. I thought he was crazy because that's, that's women's work. Like, they were like, no, no, you can't carry that. That's women's work. No, I want to. And you know, he started out with. Then you start out with 10 gallons in each hand.
- [93:00]
A
Maybe that's, that's like 80 pounds.
- [93:04]
B
And then, well, it's, isn't it seven pounds a gallon, I think. But then he had one hanging off his head, like a strap around his head and one on his back. But in the end he had to put one of the ones he was carrying down. But yeah, it's. And there was older women there, just. And they can just, they can just, just do it, you know, they.
- [93:27]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [93:28]
A
It's impressive. Yeah, it will definitely. It definitely. I'm. I do still love to exercise and move and feel things in my body. And there is something too about like carrying water that like feels so human to me. In our world today, I mean, it's like great to be able to turn on a faucet, but like to actually go and collect your water. And we're fortunate. We have a great spring that's like really close to us. And it just feels more like. I feel so much more accomplished. But it also slows me down too, which is like. The nice part is it's. For me, it's a mindfulness practice of just, just filling it up, carrying it, filling it. And it's like, okay, I, I maybe invested an hour doing this. Like, oh, I could have been an hour trying to do something else. But it's like this really just. I feel so much more centered after it and it just feels just. Yeah, a lot nicer.
- [94:16]
C
That will say, you know, our most recent rabbit hole that we've gone town down is water of understanding the spiritual connection to water and, and the science behind water and the aliveness of our water and how that impacts the aliveness of ourselves. And really understanding just a different depth of connection to really caring about the quality of water that's going into our bodies because we know how much it has an exponential impact on our well being. That's a whole nother conversation, but it is. The latest rabbit hole we've gone down is that we've been curious, following and consuming and reading and getting involved with a whole bunch of different people who are big on water and understanding our connection to water in all those different ways.
- [95:06]
B
Have you ever got into the thing where they. People will Actually take water that came into their house through pipes, but then they put it over, over. They let it run over, like natural surfaces and surfaces and curvatures. Because water's not supposed to go straight and do 90 degrees. Yeah. What do you. How much do you know about that? Because I've only seen a little bit of it, but this. Yeah.
- [95:35]
A
I was like, we. So what we do in our home in Baltimore, because we do get our drinking water from a. A spring, but like, for the rest of the water, we use our water system. So to create the best, best opportunity for us here, we have one. A whole house filtration system. But then we also have what's called a biogeometry cube. So it's about aligning the energies inside of your house. So we actually put that on. You put it on your windows. You. You put it all throughout your house. You put it on your electronics and so forth, but you also put it on your. Where your water comes in. So it helps structure the water more as it comes. Comes into the system. So.
- [96:13]
C
Which is the same concept.
- [96:15]
A
Yeah, similar through it.
- [96:18]
C
Through those different layers. And James, you also, like, know about building charging stations.
- [96:22]
A
Yeah. So one of my. My teachers, he builds. He builds these water chargers, which you. It's almost like a. If you can almost imagine, like a stone igloo. And then he puts his water in there at night so it gets charged with the moon's energy, the sun's energy. He goes in there and plays different musical instruments too, to really charge it. So what. One of the things we like to. A cheap way to do that night o is you just leave your water outside at night and the moonlight and sunlight. But this is like a whole another system. So these are like the rabbit holes we like to go down that we're eventually going to build around.
- [96:54]
C
James is like, I can't wait to build our water charging station. I was like, all right, babe, get on that.
- [97:00]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's going back to the human part. Like when you're saying, like, getting back to, like, the hunter and gatherer type.
- [97:08]
B
Yeah.
- [97:08]
A
Society, like, that's. That's. We crave that ourselves in our own way. I mean, we still love lots of modern technology, but it's like, I feel like the more we can kind of get back to those roots, like, the better I just feel overall. So I'm gonna do that.
- [97:22]
B
Yeah. When you're talking about carrying the water up the hill, I was thinking about when we first bought this place a couple years ago. It's covered in oak Trees and lots of big, dead oak limbs. And remember the first time I made a fire in our fireplace out of wood that I'd cut off trees that had fallen on our place? It's different than just firewood that you bought from a firewood place, you know?
- [97:45]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It's like growing your own food. Right? Versus going.
- [97:49]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [97:51]
A
It's a different type of energy.
- [97:52]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's like growing your own food. Not. Which is different than going to the farmer's market and buying good food that someone else grew.
- [98:01]
C
Right.
- [98:02]
B
But you grew your own food. Yeah, that's. Yeah, there's something. Something about that. Okay, next question. What's the most worthwhile thing you've put your time into? Something that's changed the course of your life? And we're probably.
- [98:18]
C
I was gonna say we. We've been talking about this this whole time. Healing. Right. Going into the pieces that I thought were more comfortable, untouched. I often visualize, before I started a healing journey of, like, all the trauma I had just tried to shove down as far as I possibly could. And I put all these chains around the box of trauma, and I did everything I could to wrap it up as tightly as possible. But what I didn't realize is that that trauma was very much alive, and it was just trying to break out all the time, and I had to keep pushing it down and keep readjusting the chains and to get to a place of saying, I'm actually going to invite all of that to come out and to move through and to be my greatest teacher and to be the answer to all of the fear, all of the overwhelm, all the struggle to have to go into those caves, into those dark places and realize that's when the medicine was being brewed the strongest. And so that is where you have the biggest opportunity to be able to live a life of freedom and not only for yourself, but particularly in the work that we get to do of teaching others that that is actually the same for them as well. It is not a unique experience for me as an individual. It is a shared human. Human experience that when we choose to not only look at our trauma, but to sit down next to it and treat it as if it has the most important messages that we ever are here to. To receive, to.
- [100:06]
B
Because it does.
- [100:08]
C
Yeah. Like, I have a lot to learn from you. Please teach me versus shut up and stay down.
- [100:16]
A
Right.
- [100:17]
C
Very different energy. And to be able to be in a place, to not only have that in my own journey of healing, but now get to teach other people how to do that in their healing of journey together and doing it in, in our relationship with each other. Right. And doing it as individuals. It is definitely the best investment of all that I hope for every human to choose for themselves in this lifetime. Because if you don't, you get to try it again next time. But.
- [100:46]
B
Exactly.
- [100:46]
C
It's nice to be further ahead. Right?
- [100:50]
B
Yeah, that's, that's the thing with that whole healing journey is until you start on that, you don't even know there's one needed. Like you don't realize all those things you've shoved down there and you don't realize how much they affect you and your day to day decisions. But you also don't realize that they, you know, when, when you hide those parts of yourself because there's some bad part, there's some bad things that happened there. You don't realize that you're also hiding some of your superpowers.
- [101:26]
C
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. The golden shadow. Have you heard of the golden shadow?
- [101:31]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [101:32]
C
Yeah. So that idea of like your greatest gifts are often the ones that you're rejecting, you know, you're, you're, you're pushing away. And many times that comes from these trauma experiences of thinking that's not something to show the world. That's actually the thing to hide. Because if people find out about that, then they're going to know that they should not listen to you or that you are not actually powerful. I had this one.
- [101:57]
B
Like they gonna know.
- [101:59]
C
Yeah. I had this one really big moment when I was at the height of my work addiction. I, I ran this young professionals program and I put on a conference every year and I was open, always one of the speakers. And so I decided that year that my dad had died that year and I had decided that I was going to say it out loud for the first time ever that I had a big trauma story, right. And I, and I shared it in front of a room of, I don't know, 400 people or something like that. And the first time I said it out loud, I shared it. Because James and I had been foster parents. We had been unexpected foster parents. I used to be an after school teacher, beautiful young girl became, we became deeply connected. Then we went in as a match to big brothers, big sisters together. So we were pre matched. So we had the support. And then I became her academic guardian. And then she got removed from her home and instead of going into the foster care system, she came to live with James and myself and all the Time, because I worked for this nonprofit, they were having me go out and speak about my story, about being, like, a foster parent and, like, basically the poster child for, like, you should give us money, because look at how amazing this person is. And I found myself having this huge feelings of impossible imposter syndrome. Huge issues, because I was so cool with telling my foster daughter story, But I never told why I was in a position in my life where that was happening. And it was because I had a similar experience as her. And I wished that I could have had somebody like me. Right. I wish there was somewhere I could have gone for reprieve. I wished that there was somebody who would just, like, say, it's okay. You're safe here. You don't have to worry here. Right. And so I never shared that side of the story. And I felt like I was becoming really inauthentic because I was very comfortable sharing about what was going on with her, which was not my story. Right. I was a part of that story, but it wasn't my personal story. I was a character in the story. And so I decided in that moment that I was going to. To be the main character of the story and to share that. The reason that you've heard me talk about all these things is because I know what that feels like, because I've been in that position. And the reason I was so able to take her in and do all these things is because that's what I wished I had in my own life. And so it wasn't like this huge jump. It was actually a reflection of my own journey. And I don't want to hide behind somebody else. I want to share that fully. And so that was this moment of, like, everything from that point on was different in my life. Like, never again will I would I ever be the same person. Because no longer was it something that was in the box that was wrapped in the chains that I hope nobody would find out. It was part of telling people why I was so passionate about my work and why I. Why I chose to go down these paths, that it wasn't a coincidence and that I wanted to own that piece of my journey. And so. So doing that, just that one moment, I know, had this incredible ripple effect because I started hearing from people who had known me a really long time and had no idea, had no clue. And then people who I never met and just heard me in the audience that day who really wanted to connect because they had their own version of that story. I know you get that when you're doing Your different experiences, Warwick, of people wanting to connect through shared storytelling. Right. And experience. And that was the beginning of a new life for me. That was the beginning of. There is medicine in this. This is something that you are meant to share. You had those experiences in your life because you are meant to heal, and you are meant to teach other people they can do the same. And you are here to deliver that in a way that people can receive it. And meeting them where they are and not judging them for where they want to be. And so choosing to go on a healing journey is. Is the best investment that I've ever made and that I would encourage anybody else to do the same and whatever that looks like.
- [106:22]
B
Yeah, that being vulnerable to a crowd of strangers is a. That's the ultimate badassery right there.
- [106:31]
C
Yeah. It's being in the ring. Right. As Brene Brown says, being in the ring.
- [106:35]
B
Yeah. I mean, there's being vulnerable to someone you know, you're very close to, then is vulnerable to someone you know, and then it's vulnerable to a stranger. Stranger. And then is vulnerable to a group of strangers. And that I think they're an ascending level of probably hard to, you know, difficulty to do, but. But also an ascending level of the. What you get back from it.
- [107:01]
C
Yeah, totally.
- [107:05]
B
Okay. So what do you feel your true purpose is?
- [107:10]
A
I'd say what. I think I can probably speak for both of us, but, like, I feel like my true purpose is to uncover my authentic self, live my authentic life, and help other people do the same. Because as Meredith was kind of talking about, it's like once I started doing that myself and just feeling what life felt like, I was like, I can't go back to do anything else. And if I can be an example to show people how they can do that themselves, like, what a greater gift in the world. Like, I. In all my time in finance, like, I always. Like, I always was like, well, one of the things I wanted to make a lot of money for was because I wanted to help other people. And I thought, you know, it's. It's just with money, like, I'll just give people money and this kind of stuff, which is great and all that. But as I started to evolve myself, I realized I can help people a lot more by helping them. Them really understand themselves and showing them that this is a way that you can live and you don't have to live by all these other societal means or norms or something like that. Like, you can actually be yourself and you can feel good about that and show up Every day in that way.
- [108:24]
B
Very cool. You know, I just was reminded a few years ago, my wife and I did some coaching or received some coaching, and this lady that was doing the coaching, she coaches. Her niche is entrepreneurial couples. And she had worked for some big entrepreneurial coaching thing for quite a long time and, and finally figured out that, oh, there's a dynamic with entrepreneurial couples that doesn't exist with other couples. But one of the things she was just. You were just about money. One of the things she was talking about was there are some problems that you may have that you can throw money at. You know, like, okay, we'll get a gardener, we'll get a, we'll get a cleaner in to clean the house. You know, there's some of those things. But then there was, she was saying that. And what entrepreneurial couples tend to get into is because they have that cash flow, is they throw money at problems. But then there's the problems, the relational problems you can't throw money at. And so. Yeah, but it was, yeah, it was, it was fascinating. It was a whole like, I think it was a six week course and we'd meet once a week. And there was other, it was a group thing. There was other entrepreneurial couples on the zoom thing. But yeah, it was quite fascinating. Another question you guys chose, what's the. What. What have you changed in the past five years that helps shape who you have become?
- [109:58]
C
Yeah, that is absolutely our journey to shift from being Baltimore city dwellers and really having a pretty intense life here in the city and the city vibe, city life, you know, being people that people know in the city and feeling like we're a power couple. Going from that to shifting to this lifestyle of living in our tiny home on this beautiful ranch and really prioritizing being disconnected from that type of energy, right. Of being in a place where we see unity with nature as the number one measure of success, of the number one invitation for purpose and healing and really experiencing that in such a way that it's unavoidable. You know, we might live in a 200 square foot home, but it's floor to ceiling windows other than the bathroom, right? And so, yeah, in the middle of a meadow where there's a game trail and it is our home, is also wildlife preservation and it's protected lands. And so the animals really love being there and we really love receiving and hopefully they get to receive some of our healing energy and, and vibes too. But really going from this place of thinking that that was a retirement dream, I mean, absolutely. 2020. We were like, that's our retirement dream. We're saving up to figure it out and make it work in 30 years and finally getting to this moment. It was actually during a workshop that I went to where we were supposed to draw a picture of our life now and then on the other side, draw a picture of our ideal life life. And I just got really triggered by that exercise. And I like slam my hand down on the table. This was in my home. It was on zoom. So I was like, this is. Why do you always have to be striving for something more? Why can't you just be happy where things are right? Like, it was just such an interesting moment of. I really see triggers as invitations to heal. Like when you're triggered, that's telling you something more is there.
- [112:12]
B
Yeah.
- [112:13]
C
And so I really sat with it and I realized that while I was, you know, our business was thriving. Our business quadrupled during the pandemic. It was like a time of massive financial abundance and massive abundance around our work. It was also the kind of thing that I was really burnt out. You know, I was teaching people how to not be burnt out. And I was burnt out. You know, it was a lot of irony, a lot of ironic, chronic situation going on there. And so to have that moment where I slammed my hand down the table and I looked at James and I said, that's it. I don't want to wait till we're retired. What do we have to do to figure out how to get there now? And thankfully, James is an incredible partner and, you know, figured out the financials of what we needed to do. I would say six months later, we bought a tiny home. And six months after that, we began the migration. And it was really this belief that we are going to figure it out. We do not have to have it all figured out, but we are going to figure it out and we're going to do that one step at a time without judgment of pace and being in that mindset of what can I do now to get me prepared for that vision in five years. So, for example, if I want to be a homesteader, well, bees are probably a part of that. And so I joined a bee cleeping club in Baltimore City. Who knew? In fact, everybody told me you couldn't have keep bees in the city. That's not true. And so I started to join communities and people who were experts in these different home setting things. And you know, James and I, our dreams are really primarily with our horses around Bridalists and bareback work. And so it was like, how can I soak in as much of that learning and as much of that while I'm here, where I have access to all these teachers and things that are in a relatively short physical distance from us, Whereas when we're out in the mountains, just to get to the bottom of our driveway is a 15 minute drive, you know, so it's the kind of thing that was like, what can I start to develop and build that is going to be awesome now, but it's going to serve me exponentially in the future by not waiting until every everything was figured out, but rather understanding what my values are and then putting my actions, my money, my behavior behind it instead of saying, once I have all these other things figured out, then I give myself permission to do that. That has been the biggest shift and thankfully I feel like our partnership is so strong that we really support each other in figuring out what is for each of us individually. Bully. James has no interest in beekeeping, but damn, does this man like honey? Like, well, for me, he is a honey badger over here. So it's like, well, I'm actually allergic to bees. I got stung 10 times inside my beekeeping soup last year. It was a really traumatic experience. And it was the kind of thing that I was like, so proud of myself. I was like, oh, my gosh, look at it. I figured I did it. I still stuck with that. I still. And now we have these two big, big things of honey and it's just this. It's not always going to be the perfect conditions. Right. It's not always going to be fun and easy. It's not always going to be.
- [115:32]
B
Life's not supposed to be fun and easy, is it?
- [115:34]
A
Yeah.
- [115:35]
C
But it's always worth it when you stick with it and you have the bigger vision and you understand what am I building towards? Those little things don't feel so big when it's like, okay, well now I'm never going to do that again. It's like, okay, well, I just learned something else and now I'm going to try it a different way the next time and continuing to really lean into that curiosity. Yeah. And use that as the fuel and energy to get you into, you know, specifically last five years has for us been this journey from Baltimore City, where literally the other side of this wall is a bar that's. I'm telling you, where we're downtown. Downtown in the city, to figuring out how do you live a life that's completely independent and that is. Is really fueled through abundance Possibility and connection.
- [116:26]
B
You said a line in there. I had to write it down. That was so good early on in that speech. And it said where unity with nature was. Is the number one measure of success.
- [116:39]
C
Feels good, doesn't it?
- [116:42]
A
Yeah. It goes back towards talking about disconnecting. Like we aren't humans weren't meant to be in these concrete jungles. We're meant to be out in the wild.
- [116:53]
C
Yeah.
- [116:53]
B
Right now I'm reading. You guys ever watch My Octopus Teacher?
- [116:58]
C
Yes.
- [117:00]
B
So I'm reading that guy. So Craig Foster wrote a book called Amphibious Soul. And you need to read it. It's one of the best books I've ever read. Especially where you guys and I are viewing the way we're viewing the world these days. It's all about rewilding himself.
- [117:19]
C
And yes.
- [117:20]
B
You know, spends lots of time with. With different trackers and. But he says some stuff in that I just gotta. Like, I, I've got the highlighter and I keep highlighting lines that he's. It's fascinating. Yeah, it's called Amphibious Soul.
- [117:34]
A
Check that one out.
- [117:35]
B
Yeah, the dudes Festival. Fascinating. Like he's. He's down some rabbit holes. Not the same sorts of rabbit holes as you guys, but the, the, the healing and the end result are the same. He's just going about it a different way. But yeah, he's definitely on about how you are supposed to be uncomfortable. You are supposed to. You carry the water up the hill, you know, post a strain. Yeah, it's a fascinating book. There are other questions I was getting. Oh, what do you. What do you guys do to. It says one of your questions, what do you do to relieve stress or recharge?
- [118:22]
A
Go in nature. That's a big one. But I love like work. We were just saying because one of my other, other quotes that I always bring to her is like, one of my teachers taught me, like, you first have to get comfortable in the discomfort. Like when you're doing this work, it's like being able to be in discomfort and being okay with it, I feel like is such an important part of anyone's journey because it's really easy these days to. When you start feeling uncomfortable to numb either with alcohol or social media or this or that. But it's like being able to be uncomfortable in that is like the key. And then for me, like if I want to get more comfortable or like sit with that, it's usually going out in nature, climbing a mountain, being with our horses or other animals. And there is. I was like tracking a little more of this. But I was like, I don't need to track this to know. But it's like, energetically, like, I just know when I'm in the city, like, I. There's like this almost layer of tension or anxiety that I feel, like, on my body. And then when I'm out in nature, it just. Just completely eliminates. And I know there's so much, like, science and research, like, backing it up, just how. How much it, like, helps us, but it's. It really. To me, it's antidote to any kind of stress I'm having. Like, we're. If we're struggling with something, we're like, hey, we're gonna go for a walk, or, hey, we're gonna go with our horses. And no matter what it is, like, it works like that. So it's. It is. And in Baltimore, I mean, we're very fortunate. We have some parks close by that we can go to to. I've stopped trying to compare, like, the east coast versus the west or being out in the mountains. I was like, I. When we first started going, I was like, these aren't mountains. Like, what is this? This is like a hill. This is a hill.
- [120:04]
B
That's a judgment.
- [120:05]
A
Yes, exactly. Good point.
- [120:07]
C
Exactly. So I had to move going into the ego.
- [120:11]
A
Yeah. Because judging mind, when we first started going out for just a couple weeks at a time and then more, I was. When I would come back, I would be in such a bad place. So it was like really kind of also just learning that too about. And yeah, as we were talking earlier, it's like. For me, it's like, okay, what's here that I can learn from, that I can grow from? And it was really about just being comfortable in areas where. Yeah, I felt discomfort in being okay with that.
- [120:39]
B
Excellent. So how do people find you guys?
- [120:44]
A
Yeah, so we have. Our website is sparkvisionnow.com we're also on Instagram at Marybeth and James, YouTube channels under SparkVision. And then we're also pretty active on LinkedIn. So under our names there, James and then Mary Beth. So those are probably our. And we. Well, Facebook. So we're on pretty much all the.
- [121:10]
C
Yeah, we're on all the social platforms except for TikTok.
- [121:13]
A
We're not on TikTok.
- [121:15]
C
And. And I would say that if anybody's interested in, like, a first step, they want a taste of what would it be like to live in my authentic life? You know, what are my authentic core values? We also have a free quiz that people can take that is core values quiz.com and it's a really beautiful sort of step one of. Of what are my values? So if we say unity with nature is our number one value, what does that actually mean? And, you know, what can I do about that? And sometimes you don't even have the words to define what your values are to start with. And so we created this tool as a resource for people who are like, I want to have the understanding of what drives me, what motivates me, what doesn't, and maybe what do I wish motivated and drove me and have a really beautiful profile of that. So if anybody's interested, they can check that out at Core values.
- [122:11]
B
So it's corevaluesquiz.com.
- [122:14]
C
Yes.
- [122:15]
B
Okay, I'm writing that down. Awesome. Well, guys, thanks so much for joining me. It's been great chatting with you guys again.
- [122:23]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [122:25]
C
Such a gift. I mean, I will say, Warwick, it was the experience where obviously I had heard about you, but I hadn't been exposed to your work until we got to the Horse World Expo. And it was instantaneous of you speaking that we just knew that this was a divine soul brother connection that was so beautiful that it started through the connection with horses and knowing that there was just so much more. And so the fact that we had the opportunity to go deep with you fast at your booth and then continue the conversation, you know, beyond the Expo poe, even shutting down was just something that created a huge expansion in my heart. And I know it did for James as well. And it was the kind of thing that being able to have this conversation with you so quickly afterwards and knowing that this is just the beginning, and it gave me so much evidence that conscious people find each other quickly and that it doesn't take years of passing each other. It takes just moments of connection. And. And so you were such an incredible, divine embodiment of that in a time that we really needed the reminder. So thank you for this invitation, and we look forward to continuing to be a part of all these amazing connections and growing and expanding together and sharing resources along the way.
- [123:48]
B
Yeah, well. Yeah. Well, that was amazing. Wrap up. Thank you. Yeah, I felt. I felt the same thing. Like, I don't. I know I. I think I told you guys when we met at the booth and I. As I shook hands with James, I looked him in the eye and I'm like, oh, there's something going on there.
- [124:04]
A
Yeah, yeah. When, you know, when you feel it, when you meet somebody, you know.
- [124:08]
B
Yeah. I was like, ah, he. He knows things.
- [124:12]
A
Yeah.
- [124:14]
B
Yes. Very cool. Well, thanks for joining us and you guys at home, thanks so much for joining us and we'll catch you on the next episode of the Journey on Podcast.
- [124:23]
A
Thanks for being a part of the Journey on Podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warick has over 850 full length training videos on his online video library@videos.war.com Be sure to follow Warrick on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram to see his latest training advice and insights.