Todd Perelmuter

Summary

The Journey On Podcast: Episode with Todd Perlmutter

Release Date: August 31, 2024
Host: Warwick Schiller

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Journey On Podcast, Warwick Schiller welcomes Todd Perlmutter, a transformative public speaker and author renowned for his works such as Aloneness to Oneness and Finding Your True Self. Todd shares his profound journey from a high-powered New York City advertising executive to a spiritual seeker who spent nine years immersing himself in diverse spiritual traditions around the world.

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From New York Ad Exec to Spiritual Seeker

Todd begins by recounting his former life as a creative director in New York City's advertising scene, reminiscent of the culture portrayed in Mad Men. He describes a lifestyle filled with excessive drinking, smoking, and the relentless pursuit of pleasure, which ultimately led to addiction and mental health struggles.

Notable Quote:
“I was a big drinker and addicted to smoking and stress, and just all of those things that come from that corporate lifestyle combined with just being a young person who thought that happiness meant always doing something pleasurable.” [06:00]

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Catalyst for Change: The Miraval Resort Experience

A pivotal moment in Todd's transformation occurred during a visit to the Miraval Resort in Arizona, where he participated in horse-assisted therapy. He realized that the horses reflected his own energy, teaching him that his reactions—fear, aggression, or presence—directly influenced his relationship with them.

Notable Quote:
"We were working with the horses, and what we learned was that it's not actually about the horse. The horse is going to be a horse. It will do everything in a horse's nature." [12:32]

This experience inspired him to leave his corporate career behind and embark on a journey to India to delve deeper into spiritual practices.

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Immersive Journey in India and Asia

Todd spent approximately nine years traveling across India and various Asian countries, residing in ashrams and Buddhist monasteries. His time in these spiritual havens involved intense practices such as chanting, meditation, and selfless service (seva), which profoundly impacted his understanding of inner peace and the human condition.

Notable Quote:
"At the ashrams, it's a lot of chanting and meditation and sometimes it's more singing than chanting... It's a very powerful experience to allow the mind to not have so much chaos going on and to really simplify." [16:39]

He contrasts the more mythologically rich ashrams with the scientifically focused Buddhist monasteries, highlighting how the latter deepened his appreciation for meditation and the science of the mind.

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Exploration of Shamans and Indigenous Wisdom in South America

After Asia, Todd ventured to South America, particularly Chile and Peru, to explore indigenous spiritual practices. Here, he encountered shamans who possessed an uncanny ability to perceive deeper truths about individuals, often guiding them through personal transformations.

Notable Quote:
"Non-duality, oneness are just really in my mind the same thing, basically. I think it's inevitable when you expand your consciousness." [51:24]

Todd emphasizes the universal wisdom shared across diverse cultures, noting the shared practices and insights that transcend geographical boundaries.

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Life-Changing Meditation Retreat in New Zealand

One of the most transformative experiences Todd shares is his 50-day solo meditation retreat in the forests of New Zealand. Equipped with a tent and essential supplies, he spent nearly two months in isolation, meditating for up to 12 hours a day. This period of intense introspection led to profound realizations about the nature of the mind and the importance of controlling one's consciousness to overcome suffering.

Notable Quote:
"It was the discovery that the mind is everything, that we are the source of whatever we are experiencing." [62:01]

This retreat solidified Todd's understanding that peace emanates from within and that controlling one's focus and awareness is key to a fulfilling life.

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Insights on Non-Duality and Oneness

Throughout the conversation, Todd delves into the concept of non-duality, explaining it as the recognition that the separation between subject and object is an illusion created by the mind. He relates these spiritual insights to scientific principles, noting that emerging scientific discoveries increasingly support the interconnectedness of all things.

Notable Quote:
"Non-duality is a way of seeing the world as allowing us to focus not just on the stuff, but on the space in between, on the silence that allows the noise to arise." [52:14]

Todd argues that embracing non-duality can lead to a deeper understanding of oneself and the universe, fostering a sense of oneness that transcends individual identities.

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Writing and Teaching: Sharing the Journey

After his travels, Todd dedicated himself to writing and public speaking, aiming to share the wisdom he acquired. He has authored eight to nine books that bridge Eastern spirituality and Western science, providing accessible insights into personal growth and mental well-being.

Notable Quote:
"Aloneness to Oneness... covers the east and the west and the science and the spirituality. And I think that this holistic view is like a great place to start for people." [70:17]

He also hosts his own podcast, Path to Peace with Todd Perlmutter, where he discusses various topics related to spirituality and personal development.

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Recommendations and Advice

When asked about the worst advice in his profession, Todd criticizes the notion that being a "good person" guarantees only good outcomes. He emphasizes that while suffering is an inevitable part of life, spirituality can help mitigate the suffering by fostering resilience and inner peace.

Notable Quote:
"With spirituality, there's still pain, but suffering is optional." [78:33]

Additionally, he debunks the myth that spirituality is solely about crystals and horoscopes, advocating for a deeper, more scientific understanding of the mind and consciousness.

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Personal Practices for Stress Relief

Todd shares his strategies for managing stress, which include meditation, physical exercise (especially swimming and hiking), and deep breathing. He highlights the importance of connecting with one's breath to activate the body's relaxation response and maintain mental clarity.

Notable Quote:
"Whenever I'm in the moment and feeling stressful... making sure I'm doing deep breathing naturally turns on that relaxation." [83:36]

Warwick relates this to his own experiences with depression, underscoring the universal applicability of these practices in achieving mental well-being.

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Conclusion and Contact Information

The episode concludes with Todd encouraging listeners to embrace oneness and integrate spiritual practices into their daily lives to overcome suffering and achieve lasting peace and joy. He emphasizes the interconnectedness of all beings and the importance of fostering empathy and compassion.

Contact Information:
Listeners can find Todd through his website East West is Our Foundation, his social media handles (@ToddPerlmutter on Instagram), and his podcast, Path to Peace with Todd Perlmutter. His books are available for purchase online, providing further insights into his transformative journey.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Journey On Podcast offers a profound exploration of Todd Perlmutter's transformative journey from corporate life to spiritual enlightenment. Through his experiences in ashrams, monasteries, and indigenous tribes, Todd provides listeners with valuable lessons on meditation, non-duality, and the power of inner peace. His insights bridge the gap between spirituality and science, making his teachings accessible and relevant to a modern audience seeking personal growth and mental well-being.

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Recommended Listening:
For a deeper dive into Todd Perlmutter's teachings, consider reading his book Aloneness to Oneness and tuning into his podcast, Path to Peace with Todd Perlmutter.

Transcript

[Todd Perlmutter]

Journey on Magic lies within the trails we ride.

[Warwick Schiller]

You're listening to the Journey On Podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warwick is a horseman, trainer, international clinician and author who helps empower horse people from all over the world with the skills, knowledge and mindsets needed to create trusting partnerships with their horses. Warrick offers a free seven day trial to his comprehensive online video library that includes hundreds of full length training videos and several home study [e-mail] just because.

You see what he shows G'day everyone. Welcome back to the Journey On Podcast. I'm your host, Warwick Schiller and on the podcast this week my special guest is a guy named Todd Perlmutter. Todd's a transformative public speaker and author of such popular books as Alone to Oneness and Finding your true Self with a focus on mental wealth addiction and discovering lasting peace and joy. He draws from his unique journey as a former New York City ad man who gave up his career and possessions to spend nine years living with gurus, monks, shamans and tribes around the world. His profound experiences culminated in a life changing 50 day solo meditation in the middle of a New Zealand forest where he uncovered the secrets to a fulfilling and meaningful life. Through his writings and talks, Todd inspires others to create a life free from the suffering that stems from forgetting who we truly are. So that's a great wrap up. That's a great description of Todd in the conversation. I found him to be exactly like that. So I hope you guys enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Todd Perlmutter, welcome to the JourneyOn Podcast.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for what you do.

[Warwick Schiller]

Hey, no worries. Thank you for what you do. And we're about to. Actually, why don't you start out by telling us what is it you do these days? You've got one of those occupations, or if they want to even call it an occupation, you get one of those vocations that is not an average vocation. So yeah, why don't tell us what you're doing in the world these days?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, I am mainly writing books and speaking publicly about kind of the transformation I've had in my life and sharing some of the wisdom I've learned from a nine year journey, really living with gurus and monks and shamans and various tribes around the world and just learning everything I can about what our ancestors passed down to us to cope with chaotic society, chaotic times we live in. And I think that there's just a lot of disconnect from our history and from the wisdom that our species has acquired. And so I'm just sharing it in a way that has helped me overcome so many things that were going on in my life, from addiction to just stress, anxiety, depression, things that I think a lot of people are going through because of this kind of disconnection. And so what I found is kind of this similarity between every spirituality, every belief system, which is that we are really all connected. We are all one. The not just with every living being and everything in this universe, but with our past, with our future. And that there is this oneness that can emerge when we see the world with an expanded perspective beyond just these separate bodies. But we see the process of becoming these bodies, and we see the relationships between everyone and everything. And so this. It just naturally creates this, like, lack of stress, lack of worry, lack of fear and loneliness that I think is really an epidemic in our society today, where we just, you know, we're living most of the time in our phones.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, we are. You know, it's funny, we just had our pod. We just had a podcast summit. I was telling. Before we got on here, I was talking about the podcast summits. We just had one in England. And when I opened the first day, when I opened it, I was basically saying that, you know, these presenters up here are not speaking of from a place of authority. They're sharing from a place of, well, connection, but a place of, you know, they've. They've lived these. Lived these things, and they just, you know, they're here to share their perspective. They're not here to. To share. They're here to share their perspective and maybe inspire some people, but they're not here to preach. And it sounds like you're coming from exactly that same place that. From that lived experience.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely, yes. I do really subscribe to that. We all are gurus. We all have it within us. And sometimes someone can just kind of point us in a direction that we're free to take or not take. You know, that each of us has that journey, that personal journey that we'll all take. So. Absolutely. It's. It's just for just sharing from personal experience. And then that seeing that help people is wonderful.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right. And you've come the whole route from. So what were you like, a New York ad exec or something? Were you?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I was. I was a creative director in New York City for several years. A little over a decade, probably. And, you know, just like Don Draper and Mad Men, but a little more.

[Warwick Schiller]

I was gonna ask, was anything like Mad Men? Yeah, yeah.

[Todd Perlmutter]

You Know, it's just like that, no smoking in the office anymore, but. And a little more, you know, diversity, which is great. So not, not exactly 1950s, but, you know, it's very much. There was a lot of drinking and a lot of shenanigans and just getting all up to, you know, I was, I was a big party animal. I was, I was a big drinker. I was addicted to drinking and smoking and stress and just all of those things that come from that corporate lifestyle combined with just being a young person who thought that happiness meant always doing something pleasurable.

[Warwick Schiller]

Well, that's a line right there we'll have to write down. So tell me, tell me about being a New York ad exec. Is advert. I don't know anything about it, but I have a suspicion here is advertising about understanding people's deep psychological wounds and preying on those to sell them some sort of commercial product. To some, maybe that's my cynicism, but.

[Todd Perlmutter]

You know, I mean, to, to a large extent that, that is, that is a goal. It is to create demand that otherwise would not be there. And so the way to do that is you talk about a real problem in people's lives and you present your product as the solution, whether it's to be cool, to, you know, have status as such a big one to, or even, you know, something as simple as like a sleep medication, which, you know, it's. That. That's really a symptom of a deeper problem. But we're going to sell you the sleep medication. So it is certain times it's things that can help. And the way we kind of rationalize it is if you are a vegan, you're not going to eat a burger no matter how good the commercial. So we're just, we just want you to eat Burger king instead of McDonald's. You know, that's kind of the way we look at it in the creative team. But there are research departments, there are psychologists that'll come on and they will kind of brief us on, you know, certain pain points, certain motivating factors to, to create a campaign around. And then I looked at it personally as just I wanted to. I wanted to make entertainment, make people laugh. And they often would, you know, hire me to do that. And so that's kind of really all I cared about. Not as much the selling the product, but that's, you know, of course, that's the, that is the goal of any agency in the bottom line, for sure.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right. And so you did that for, you know, a decade or so. Involved in the rat race. And then there's. So it sounds like there's. There's gotta be a. Usually it's. There's a hitting rock bottom that starts you on a bit of a spiritual journey or whatever. Did you have a. Did you ever. Did you have a rock bottom that, like, oh, there's something else to think about, or did you have a bit of a progression over a few years, like, start to think about things a bit differently?

[Todd Perlmutter]

That's a great question. I was mostly, I would say, not rock bottom. I would say that that is the usual path. That is, almost everyone who I met along my path, it was some tragedy. And for me it was really luck, coincidence, randomness, totally unexpected. I just had this random occurrence that changed my outlook. And then I started down this path. And for me, my tragedy came afterwards. And it was. That was also a coincidence. But that was when the spiritual tools, the ability to stay present and to leave the past in the past. This is like it was. If I didn't have those tools, I think the series of tragedies that came after would have been breaking.

[Warwick Schiller]

Can you share with us what your. Like, the first thing that happened, that the thing that you think is a coincidence and I think was actually the universe showing you your path. But anyway, we can call it a coincidence if you like.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely do. Everything has led me to this point, and it does not feel like a coincidence, that's for sure. But at the time, a friend of mine was a travel writer, and she just. This was the one and only time. But she said, hey, I have two tickets to this to Arizona, and then a free stay at this resort. And do you want to go? And I would never say no to a free trip. So I immediately said yes. And we went. We hiked the Grand Canyon, we did a little road trip, and then we ended up at the resort. And I just thought it was going to be like massages and spas and, you know, saunas, or there was some mountain biking and rock climbing. And I thought there was going to be like horse riding because everyone comes and does some work with horses. But this is the moment that really changed my life because we were working with the horses. And what me and everyone in this group learned was like, it's not actually about the horse. The horse is going to be a horse. It will do everything in a horse's nature. And whether the horse does what we want it to do has to do with us and our energy, our nature, what we are bringing to it. If we are afraid, if we're timid, it's not going to listen. And you know, if we come aggressive, it's going to react. But if we come at it with this presence and this strength, it will respect and it will, you know, do what we're trying to get it to do, which in this case was to clean its hoofs, so squeeze the back of its leg, get it to lift itself.

[Warwick Schiller]

Were you at Miraval?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yes.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah. You know, it, you know, I've been.

[Warwick Schiller]

To Miraval too and, and I, I went and you know, I actually, we do some retreats at our place here and we just recently had a couple of the equine assisted therapist from Miraval come out here and I actually, I think I'm going to go to, we organize a thing where I'm going to go to Miraval and help them with the horse stuff a little bit. But we stayed in Miraval a few years back and I was like, okay, what's their horse deal all about? And that's exactly what they had us do. So when you said that, I'm like, I'm pretty sure you're at Miraval, I.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Thought you might have been familiar with them. Yeah, that was the first time I knew anything other than just traditional therapy. You know, all we hear is talk therapy. And so it just blew my mind how this connection to the horse was transforming myself and transforming other people. And I just spent four hours after that just staring out into the desert, watching these birds come and go on these bird feeders and just mesmerized. And I was just in this state of seeing this connection to everything and everyone and it was very profound. And I just made the decision right there that I'm going to quit my job, I'm going to go learn everything I can that we're not taught, that we don't learn in school, that we just don't really have great access to here. So that was the moment I made that decision. A little bit later, once I saved up enough, I bought a one way ticket to India and what was a one year trip turned into nine. And just really with the purpose of knowing that people cannot do this, take nine years off. So my purpose was to come back and to just share everything I know to all the people living in the cities, living in the, you know, real hard jobs and because we can't all leave our families and go be monks. So it's, that was the, that was what ended up happening. And it was all really because of this total random coincidence that I just did not expect. I Was expecting horse. Horse riding.

[Warwick Schiller]

So India was the first place you went seeking this way of looking at the world?

[Todd Perlmutter]

That's right, yes. Flew into Mumbai and then just traveled around asking people, looking for ashram's Buddhist monasteries and just learning, you know, from the kind of birthplace, the spiritual capital of the world.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. Did you, did you spend a lot of time in one place or did you kind of drift around quite a bit?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Mostly drifted. My goal was to learn from as much as I could from as many people as I could. So stayed in probably 10 or 12 ashrams for one to three months. Probably stated about same number of Buddhist monasteries for the same amount of time in various places across Asia. And then similarly with shamans and tribes through South America.

[Warwick Schiller]

We'll get to the shamans and tribes here in a minute. I really want to know about that. But something I've been on about for quite a while here on the podcast is, well, shamanic stuff, but also really interested in hunter gatherers and, you know, they live the way we evolved to live. And then society has kind of changed since then and. But we still basically the same creature we were 10,000 years ago sort of thing. And so the, yeah, the whole hunter gatherer thing really fascinates me. And then the shaman stuff fascinates me too. So I really want to get to that. But for those people who might not know what life is like in an ashram, unless they've, well, they've probably watched Eat, Pray, Love. But tell us about what's, let's say the first ashram you went to. What, what was that like? What did you do there? What's the living conditions like? What, what tasks you had to perform? I'm interested in all those sorts of things.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely. So there's the full range, there's the foreigner centric ones that are a little nicer, tend to be a little more optional. All of the stuff a little more, you know, catered to kind of Westerners. So that was actually the first one I went to. I was kind of easing into it and then I started to, you know, get deeper into the ones that have no, no foreigners and just, just Indians. And in South India they speak English a lot because there's so many different languages and so English is the common language. And so that was really convenient in the, so in the more touristy ones, which, you know, every. Everyone is different. Everyone has different benefits. I learned a lot about ayurvedic medicine. But this, this one, the very first one I went to was more, more like a hotel really? But I would say the, the ones that I went to after were definitely more like kind of that prison cell room where there's just a board for a bed. And that's the more Eat, Pray, Love. One where you're cleaning toilets and you're helping out with whatever, you know, dairy farm, whatever, whatever work they need. Sometimes I was breaking bricks with a hammer and they were going to use those to fill in the sidewalk. And that's called seva, which is selfless service. And it is, yeah, it's a, it's a beautiful process. Honestly. One of. Well, this was at a monastery, but one of the monks told me that the people who get the toilet cleaning chores tend to have the most transformative experience because, you know, they, they really do have the most to overcome and so they reach a deeper level of peace. But I, unfortunately I got sweeping sidewalks at that one. But it's at the ashrams, it's a lot of chanting and meditation and sometimes it's more singing than chanting. And you're always around the happiest people because everyone is there for the purpose of happiness and everyone is so friendly that just, just that alone is quite an amazing experience. And I do recommend it all. I recommend, you know, the, those bare minimum rooms that have no AC or, you know, sometimes just a little light bulb maybe. But it's, it's a very powerful experience to allow the mind to not have so much chaos going on and to really simplify and just to kind of have one thing you need to focus on for an extended period of time. Because most of the suffering in our world is really comes from a chaotic mind, not so much our chaotic, chaotic surroundings. And it comes from a mind that is always jumping around from place to place and it is exhausting. And we're just always in this exhausted state when our mind is just constantly racing and will not be quiet and have a rest. You know what I mean?

[Warwick Schiller]

And the experience that those ashrams is that the quietening of the mind, you think that comes from just the meditation and the chanting or, you know, those, that selfless service stuff. Is there a bit to that too? Like if you've got to sit there and break bricks for eight hours or.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Something, I think, I think it all is. Goes into it. I think it's all super important. I think that feeling that self dissolve is really where that magic happens. And so that's where the service comes in. And man, the blisters on my hand from those hammers. But it was, you know, it's just you feel great doing it. You're just, you're just helping. You're getting nothing out of return and you're just contributing to this beautiful community that these people have built. So I think it's, I think it all combines. I think it's the no phones, I think it's the service, I think it's the teachings as well that just help you contextualize the process that's going on inside. And definitely, you know, service, selfless, service, contribution, feeling valued. These are I think essential human traits. And so it's, it is wonderful to be able to participate in all of those.

[Warwick Schiller]

Do you find. So you're talking about blisters on your hands. Was it, was it quite painful?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I. It was a little painful. You know, it's something I could have stopped anytime. I was never forced. Nothing is like, okay, forcing on you. But I, it was almost like a little personal test to see how, how much could I endure?

[Warwick Schiller]

That's, that's what I was asking was. I feel like there's a, there's just put it, there's something about putting up with discomfort and just being comfortable with being uncomfortable sort of thing. I remember a number of years ago, it was actually during COVID my sister in law was getting certified as a Kundalini yoga instructor and she had to teach so many, you know, sessions to, to get qualified, but it was covert and you couldn't go around. So we would have a family zoom call once a week. We'd have these family Kundalini yoga things. And so my, you know, I'd be on in my office on my computer, my wife be on hers, my son would be on his. And then, you know, my brother in law's wife's kids were on. You know, there's probably 10 or 12 US, whatever. But some of the times you're sitting in a pose just like maybe doing Breath of Fire or whatever and doing some mood with your hands above your head and you get to where you feel like your arms are going to fall off and initially you're focusing on the discomfort and stuff. But if you can, like when after a while it gets to where you can just breathe through it and.

[Todd Perlmutter]

It'S.

[Warwick Schiller]

Not like the discomfort goes away, you just become peaceful with it to where it's not uncomfortable, it's not even in your consciousness anymore. And it's. I wondered if the, if the, you know, the, the breaking of the bricks was a little bit like that.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely. I think that, I think it's such a metaphor for life too. Is that what we, we create the suffering. And people find that shocking. They're like, but kids are starving. And you know, of course, that that is real and that that is terrible and a tragedy, but the suffering exists in that boy's mind, in our mind when we watch it, you know, that's just where it exists. And we tend to just obsess and linger and cling to these negative experiences or negative news stories, whatever it is. And we, it's like we can let go as well. You know, we can, we can make peace with those with arms in the air.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

So how long were you in India? You said something about nine years. Did you, was it a nine year stay or did you go, come back? Go, come back.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Nine years was India, Asia? A little bit in Europe, where I met some very interesting shamans and other types of people there as well, who just happened to be kind of traveling shamans.

[Warwick Schiller]

And what sort of shamans were they?

[Todd Perlmutter]

So this was a European who had spent years in South America.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

And, yeah, and then, yeah, let's, let's.

[Warwick Schiller]

Let'S not get too far ahead of ourselves here. So what, what happens after, what happens after India then, then where is your next stop afterwards? Actually, sorry, tell me about, sorry. We talked about the ashrams. I'd love to know more about the, the Buddhist monasteries as well.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh, yes. So the Buddhist monasteries were just incredible, very beautiful in the mountains a lot of the time. And there was a little bit more of a focus, a little less on mantras, a little less on chanting, a little more on meditations, a little more on kind of like resting in silence and stillness and just an incredible science of the mind. You know, I really look at Buddhism as the first science of the mind. And it's like 2,500-year-old science and that they're just constantly debating and refining even today their understanding and ideas. They're, you know, observing like a scientist, their own mind for hours, and then they share, discussed, vigorous debate. And it's, it's very remarkable focus mostly on the, the human condition, whereas a lot of the ashrams have a lot of more mythology and more focus on the gods, rituals, these kind of things. Yeah, but the Buddhist monasteries were incredibly transformative for me. Just sometimes I do long meditation retreats there in silence. And the Buddhist monks are a walking lesson in generosity, compassion, just beautiful souls that I'll know forever. There was a funny story where I was leaving one monastery to go to an ashram and they said, oh, we'll take you. And I was like, that's crazy. I've been traveling India for a year. I know how to get around. Thank you so much. And they're like, no, we're going there anyway. And I was like, I mean, if you're going there anyway, let's go. Sounds better than the bus. And then we walk past the parking lot, and I'm like, where are we going? And then we're going to the bus stop. And they. They get on the bus with me, and they. We get to the next city, and they're like, all right, we're heading back. And I said, wait a minute. You guys said, we were. You were going here. I thought you were going to here. And they're like, no, no, no. Just. Just for now. And I said, well, let me take you to lunch. They, you know, they pay for lunch while I'm in the restroom. These guys are, like, too nice. Honestly, like, I just learned a lot of what, really, hospitality means in India from just their. Their rich culture of guest is God. And I. I think that that is almost more important than any teachings, because you learn more than words can convey from someone's example.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. With the Buddhist monasteries, were they up in the Himalayas?

[Todd Perlmutter]

There were many in the Himalayas, yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. And you were up there?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yep. There was the few I went to also a little south of there, but there was a bunch in. Yeah. MacLeod, Ganj, and a few other areas in the mountains that are just beautiful.

[Warwick Schiller]

So what. Where'd you go after India? Where was your next stop on your journey after India?

[Todd Perlmutter]

After that, I flew to Thailand to stay at some more Buddhist monasteries.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yep. And then I just kept going east. And so then I went to Cambodia and Laos and Vietnam, and seeing just how that Buddhist culture kind of changes from India to Far east, which is really wild. And, you know, it's very similar, but they have a few differences in just kind of like, mostly just style stuff. But. And then I. Then I made my way to South America from there.

[Warwick Schiller]

From where in South America did you go first?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I went to Chile and then Peru.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, and what led you to. You know, you've. You've been in India and Asia, so you've. You know, you've been around the Hindus and the Buddhists. What. What drew you to South America?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, I think that there is a lot of wisdom in the indigenous people all over the world, really, who have that connection to the history as well as just knowing what I know from, you know, pop culture and the media that they have, you know, these spiritual shamans that are like, every tribe has one. And they are the, you know, the medicine man or the woman and healers who kind of live a little off from the main tribe because they're a little too intense at all times, but whenever the tribe needs them.

[Warwick Schiller]

That's one of the things I was gonna not necessarily ask, but kind of point out, like, you know, you start this whole journey because you were, you know, kind of having some mental health issues. But if you really think about it, for the most part, the. From all the indigenous stuff that I've read about, most people who were shamans, if they're in the western culture, would have been locked up with a straitjacket a long time ago. Like, they are the complete, as they would say in Australia. They're nutters, you know, but. But they're not nutters.

[Todd Perlmutter]

No, they have a very amazing amount of wisdom. And it's. It's remarkable too that some of them will do ayahuasca ceremonies maybe nightly. And they're the smartest, sharpest people I've ever met, which is mind blowing.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, I've read quite a bit about like the ayahuasca's how much of a initiation they have to have in that. And they go out in the jungle and live on bananas and they do lots and lots and lots and lots of ayahuasca. And you know, I think when you do. Well, I haven't done lots of ayahuasca, but I've done enough to know that it's scary as all from. Least for me, you know, you've got to. It'll bring you face to face with your, with your shadows and just to keep going back and back and back and doing it again and facing that again and working through it. I think that's, it's amazing.

[Todd Perlmutter]

It is, yeah, it's. It really is like meditation with steroids. You don't know what you're going to get.

[Warwick Schiller]

Well, like they say, you don't get the trip, you don't get the ayahuasca journey you want. You get the ayahuasca journey you need.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yes, absolutely.

[Warwick Schiller]

So Chile was first. How long did you spend there?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I was there for about two months and then went to Peru for about four months.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, so how does this work? Like, you rock up in Chile at the airport and you just go over to the counter that says dala shaman and you just call the phone number and they pick you. How do you, you know, how do you find those communities in Peru?

[Todd Perlmutter]

That's a really great question because there, that can be a dangerous choice. You Know, you people have made the wrong choice. But I, I have a Chilean friend who, her brother knew the shaman. So it was not only, you know, felt very safe, but it was that he wouldn't accept any money. You know, it was like, give it to someone who needs it, pass it on, you know. And so that was my experience. Staying with their tribe for a little while, helping out in their community, Just this beautiful community. I mean, it's, it's a tribe, but it's several cabins in the middle, like in a valley between all these mountain ranges. And you, you feel, you feel the presence of these, these spirits and energies when they're talking about them. And it really does, you know, they, they live with their ancestors as present beings. And that was the first time I ever even considered like, am I honoring my ancestors? Am I honoring future generations with my actions? And, you know, this is how they, they live and make every decision.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. I was in Bali earlier this year and most of Indonesia is Muslim, but, but Bali is mostly Hindu. But they're, you know, they're very much animists and they, you know, they believe everything, every physical thing has a, has a spirit to it and they interact with the world that way. And it's just fascinating to be around. Like it's, it is so removed from Western culture. It's not funny. And you know, they, in Bali, they're very, very good at hospitality, but it's not hospitality driven by capitalism. Their hospitality is who they are. Like, they, you know, I've never met such, just caring, wonderful people.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Agreed. Yeah. Bali is a special place. I also noticed what you just described. You know, it's such a beautiful place. There's sculptures everywhere and it's not a wealthy, you know, island, but they really respect and cherish everything. Everything is sacred. And I think that is super important. When we do treat the world like that, I feel like that sacredness reveals itself to us.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, they definitely don't have like a, like a power over mentality. They really have a careful mentality. They have a, you know, everything, everybody's, everything's equal. There is no hierarchy. It's a non hierarchical way of looking at the world, I think. And it's, it's pretty amazing.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yep.

[Warwick Schiller]

Got any crazy stories from Peru or Chile?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, you know, I was struck by how much these shamans know, you know, they, they have somehow this access to wisdom. They can know what you're thinking. They can know. I'll give you an example. After one of the ceremonies with the shaman in Chile, he told one of the other ceremony participants, that she is blocking her female energy and she should not do that. And later that woman told me that she was using a birth control that was blocking her cycles and that it was, that she didn't feel right on it. And she was, she like stopped immediately after that. And she's like, I don't know how he knew that, but. And he told me, he just like looks at me, he looks up, down, he's like, follow your heart, not your brain. Let the heart lead, the brain will follow. It's the boss. And this was the first time I was ever exposed to this idea that is in a lot of indigenous tribes that we have three intelligence centers in our body, the brain, heart and gut. And many of these tribes ignore the brain, or 95% ignore the brain and mainly focus on the heart's knowing and, you know, understand that the mind usually talks us out of what we know we need to do. And so that, that's just one of those little phrases that just stuck with me forever. The one of the shamans in Peru told me he just could tell. He said, you're, you're a bit of a skeptic, aren't you? And I was a super skeptic. I was like an atheist. And he's like, yep, well, a healthy dose, dose of skepticism is good, but too much is not a good thing. And so that was something that I realized. I was very closed off, I was very certain and shut off. And that was a time in my life where I really became much more aware of these non, non scientific things that feel very real. And when you treat them as real, your life just changes for the better. And so these are just things like feeling this loving universe feel like knowing and realizing that everything works out. This universe restores balance and it is in perfect harmony and it will always, you know, find, find that center again, find that balance if it, if it ever gets out of balance. And so, you know, it's just like that trust in the universe that kind of came over me. And in these, in these retreats or in these villages or with these shamans, they, they, you know, as I said earlier, they really see these things, these, these entities, these spirits, these angels. He told me that my future self was watching over me and that, that is kind of the same. Like I was kind of thinking that and feeling that when he said that, you know, it's just a remarkable intuition that they're, they're open to which it's, it's just another one of those things that are just Like a little inexplicable. And you're, you know, it just opens your eyes to realize that there's so much more than the material sciences tell us.

[Warwick Schiller]

So he said to you, you're a bit of a skeptic, aren't you? And you said, I was an atheist. But you've just spent nine months in India and Asia, so you're still skeptical at this point in time?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I was, I was really, I. Yeah, it really is.

[Warwick Schiller]

You're a skeptical seeker.

[Todd Perlmutter]

I was, I was very much, yeah, I was very much the, you know, science, scientism, I would say, like believed in science and I kind of rebelled against religion when I was a kid so that I was like a very certain atheist and I needed personal experience. And that was what I did get in South America. That really opened my eyes to the mysteries of life, which I feel like is not. I feel like we don't focus on what we don't know and we don't admit what we don't know too much in sciences. You know, they say, grant me the miracle of the creation and then I'll explain everything else. But, you know, I feel like that's important.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, well, you're talking about the, you know, the gut and the heart and the brain sort of thing, and, you know, indigenous people kind of almost ignoring the brain, just going with the heart and the gut. Well, the science these days tell us that you get just as much information from your gut and your heart as you do from your brain. There's as many neurons in your gut as there is in your brain or something. And what I think is really cool these days is it's like science and spirituality are kind of turning into a bit of a Venn diagram to where there's overlap and then there's. And then I think the science and spirituality, then there's psychology, and it's kind of overlapping in there too, because a lot of the stuff like in the psychology world these days is almost coming back to hunter gatherer practices, you know, like thing, you know, like how to raise children. Like, don't put him in another room, let him cry to sleep. Like that's, that's having a, that's having a dysregulated nervous system from the get go. And anybody that's your age, my age, whatever, probably had that happen. And so you, you know, you're this little infant and you're left to cry it out. That's got a jack with your nervous system and that's a, you know, that's a wound that you carry with you forever, not even knowing it, that it is one.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely, yeah. It's. And it goes against a million or more years of what humans have done. And I also very much try to see what is in our human nature. You know, there is no wild animal suffering, depression, and we have lost our way in that sense. And we don't have to go back into the woods, but we can kind of bring the woods to us and make sure we are doing those things that a healthy, happy human needs to thrive. And so, yeah, actually I look at nature and horses all the time. It was amazing how many horses in my life have just been there to remind me of their majestic strength, power, but peace and loving nature. And I think that the way chimpanzees live is probably closer to our human nature than what we're living today. Of course, you know, we have a lot of wisdom and intellect above that. But I do think that, you know, as a species with so much mental health, we've clearly lost our way a little bit and we can reintegrate those moments of stillness because I do think that when we were living in our nature, the first several thousand years of humans being around, we were just like every animal. We didn't need to meditate. Meditation was kind of our way of life. There was no distractions, there was no entertainment and attention economy. There was just the, the time to listen to our intuition and, you know, sleep when we're tired and eat when we're hungry and be with our family. And, and there, there is a great presence when you're hunting or foraging that just comes over naturally. You don't even need to meditate because you are on a heightened alert yet you're relaxed, you're calm, your, you know, your, your mind and body are quiet. And so I mean, it's really meditation and all of these practices and skills are really to just get back into that, you know, and invite those natural moments of reflection and introspection.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, most certainly. So you've. Let's talk more about your South American experience. Chile first. Peru second. How did you have a much different experience in Peru than you did in Chile?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, yes, a little bit in Peru. I also met a British shaman. So he was, he had lived in Peru a lot. And so he was able to kind of take all these teachings and kind of make it more applicable to a Westerner and to, you know, the modern life.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, well, that's got to be, it's got to be probably a good thing because like, say a shaman in Peru Or Chile, wherever. Who's never lived in the Western world and never, you know, suffered some of the, like, mental health challenges we have just from living in this world. For him to be a teacher, he can only teach from his perspective. Whereas this British guy sounds like he, you know, he's. He's been the New York ad exec sort of thing. You know, he's been there and then kind of like what you're doing now is you've seen both sides of the coin. And I really feel like if you've. If you've lived, you know, if you've been in the lived experience of that other person, it's much easier to. To make things relatable to them.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's. There's a language barrier also when living with tribes, and right there there's usually like one or two people who speak a little bit of English. But it is. It is definitely an advantage to be able to relate to someone on that level. And yeah, I think, I think it's essential really to. For the integration and for, like, I'll give you an example. He had in the middle of the. The big hut that. Where the ceremony takes place, there was like a little altar on the floor where there's Jesus, there's Shiva, there's Buddha, there's more South American tribal elements, like some animal skulls or things like this that they incorporate. And so that really made an impression on me because I think. I think that any truth out there is not exclusive to a group and can't have just started to exist once a group was created, you know what I'm saying? So that was like, really another awakening moment of this kind of oneness that I feel very strongly. And I've been just kind of seeing more and more in every moment this deeper awareness that there's. That all the different stuff is not as important as the relationship that connects everything.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. So, yeah. Isn't it interesting how at the root of it all, if you look at, you know, if you look at, say, say hunter gatherer tribes or indigenous tribes from all over the world and look at their spiritual practices or the things that they did, these were. These were not in contact with each other, but they've been doing very, very similar things for thousands of years. I had a guy on the podcast who. His name is Rupert Isaacson and he's. He's written several books, but he's his son. He spent a lot of time with the hunter gatherers in Botswana, the Khoisan Bushman of the Kalahari, and But he's. Rupert's son was quite autistic and he had some struggles, you know, there were some struggles with autism. He had, he was non verbal. He had out, you know, these. I think he was incontinent and he was, he had these outbursts and he did not get along with anybody his age sort of thing. And so Rupert took him to Mongolia to the horse shamans up there, and they did some work with, with Rowan is his son's name. But they did something where they like sucked on his head and this black sticky liquid came out. Okay. But then he went on these other. And they told him he had to go on three other healing journeys to different shamans. And so he went to, went to the Bushmen of the Kalahari. They did something similar to where they almost sucked like this black sticky liquid out of Rowan's head. Then he went to Australian Aboriginal in the Daintree rainforest in far North Queensland, similar thing. And then he went to a Native American in Arizona. And I don't think the Native American actually sucked the black stuff out, but three of these shamans from very, very, very far flung places, you know, Botswana, bottom of South America, South Africa, Mongolia, top of Asia and the Daintree rainforest in Australia. And they all did something very, very similar. And it's really, really interesting that that always fascinates me because I think, because I think it's. They somehow, through their shamanic journeying and stuff, get this earth wisdom. You know, it's not, it's not localized wisdom. It's not people wisdom, it's earth wisdom.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah. I do, I do think that, you know, any true seer is not making it up. So it's not going to be, you know, it's going to be many people coming to the same conclusions. Now, did he, did he have improvement?

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, there was quite a, quite a change with him in, in Mongolia.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Unbelievable.

[Warwick Schiller]

Rowan is now 22, I think. Has his own. Owned his own house, has a job.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Wow. Incredible.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, he's. He's an incredible human. But yeah, so that, that, that stuff, that collective earth wisdoms kind of thing that kind of really, really interests me a great deal. I'm sure you saw all the similarities in all your travels.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely. It is remarkable how everybody is really talking about the same thing with different words. Non duality, oneness are just really in my mind the same thing, basically. I think it's inevitable when you expand your consciousness, when you can quiet the mind. It's these, these insights that come into us from somewhere, same place.

[Warwick Schiller]

I'm going to put you on the spot here because you're a. You're a teacher. You teach this stuff. You just said, non duality. And some people's probably, ears probably pricked and like, what the hell is that? What. What is the most succinct way you could describe non duality.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Non duality? And I'm sure it depends on who you ask, but from what I kind of gather, it's that when you really look deep into any object or any aspect of this life, what we find is that there is the. That nothing really exists the way we think it exists. That the way we think something exists is the way the mind creates it. So a chair is a chair to a human, a human mind who has been conditioned to understand the concept of a chair. But if you look closely, you won't find a chair in there. You won't find where the chair is within the chair. Like, if I took the legs off, is it still a chair? If I took the seat off, is it still a chair? You know, if I took one leg off, is it the. Is it an object whose function is to sit or is it some, you know, we can explore it and we will find that, like if you remove one atom at a time, you won't be able to say when it stopped being a chair. And so it's this. It's this mental creation. And there can be no experience without both the object subject without the experience and the experiencer. And that the way we understand the world is really an illusion and a creation. And that underneath the stuff is essentially a nothingness. You know, the beyond, the illusion of form is this, is. This is a source, you know, is just the source of all things. And that source is the. The non duality and the illusion of all the separate things are the duality that is not as real. So I think to me it is a way of seeing the world as allowing us to focus not just on the stuff, but on the space in between, on the silence that allows the noise to arise, the space that allows the stuff to appear and not get so carried away on all the details of our. Of our lives. Now that was a long answer, but.

[Warwick Schiller]

You know, and that's, you know, that sounds like a very spiritual sort of an answer. But then we talked about spirituality and science before. But then if you think about, you know, everything exists at a particle and a wave. You think about, you know, quantum mechanics and all that stuff is like, that's describing that. I was reading something the other day and it said if you looked at yourself under a electron microscope, you would not know where you finished and the rest of the world started.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely.

[Warwick Schiller]

No, there's no absolute dividing line. This is me.

[Todd Perlmutter]

That's absolutely. Yeah, that's them. That's 100% right. And we even, you know, we don't see energy, we don't see beyond the visible light spectrum. And there is so much more going on that we are completely unaware of. And that is equally real, equally as important. But we filter it out so we can exist in this material world. But you know, there's more sounds, more sights, more colors than we are able to perceive. And it is amazing that science is showing us that and that we are able to really expand our consciousness. And I, and I agree with you before, spirituality without science is as dangerous as science without spirituality. I mean, to have the power of the nuclear bomb without the power of wisdom and compassion would be a disaster.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right. So I'm going to skip ahead here right now.

[Todd Perlmutter]

All right.

[Warwick Schiller]

Your, you know, your bio says you're a former New York City admin gave up his career and possession to spend nine years living with gurus, monks, shamans and tribes around the world. Then it says his profound experiences culminated in a life changing 50 day solo meditation in the middle of a New Zealand forest where he uncovered the secrets to a fulfilling and meaningful life. Do tell this story, Todd.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Absolutely. After I felt like I learned every meditation practice, every, you know, technique and piece of wisdom that I could take with me, I felt this calling to do a meditation retreat in the forest by myself.

[Warwick Schiller]

And why New Zealand?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, that's a great question. So I asked a high Buddhist lama in northern India. Well, I told him I was planning to do this meditation retreat and he said, well, just make sure there's no tigers, bears or snakes. And so that was, that was why I picked New Zealand. He was right. And yeah, I did not want to take any bigger risk than it was already risking. So New Zealand has just a very safe, like the people are safe, the no predators, no poisonous snakes or spiders. So I felt pretty comfortable hiking, you know, 12 days into the forest and then staying there for a long time.

[Warwick Schiller]

So is in the north island or South Island?

[Todd Perlmutter]

This was in the North Island.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, about maybe three or four hours south of Auckland.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Like around, say, Rotorua? Anywhere around there?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, very close.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. Was it okay?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yep, it was. It's called Te Ora, I believe it's called. And you know, similarly, I kind of go down there. I asked a sporting good store guy, where can I go and not see any people for 50 days. And he told me this house I can like leave my car at and no one will bother it. And so I did that and I met some locals who are just wonderful and they'll, you know, it was just. It all worked out perfectly. You know, I found this place, I found this, these people. For $50, you can leave your car there for as long as you want. And they drove me to the edge of the park and then I just started hiking in and actually met a few indigenous people in the forest who I found out later were praying for me and watching over me, which is probably why I survived some, some risky things. But then, yeah, I got into the middle and then I just stayed there for 50 days meditating pretty much all day every day and that.

[Warwick Schiller]

Did you take a tent?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I did, I took a tent. I took a lot of food. Dried food, like freeze dried stuff? Yep, noodles.

[Warwick Schiller]

You have a jet boil or something like that.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Did you jet boiler? Sometimes a fire I'd boil some water on. But mostly, you know, beans, noodles, little. A few cans, but those were pretty heavy. So mostly just the dry stuff and then a lot of foraging as well.

[Warwick Schiller]

What did you forage on in the forest in New Zealand?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, they've got. Most of it is not too hardy. They've got dandelion roots which are not too bad. They've got fern fiddleheads which are pretty good when you boil them. And they also have, I think it's called like Thorny Bushnell, which is really a pain to pick because it's very thorny. But once you boil it you can eat it.

[Warwick Schiller]

And did you know about these plants before you went in there or you had to do a bit of trial and error?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I brought with me the Edible Plants of New Zealand book.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, okay, perfect.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

50 days of. And how long a day were you meditating?

[Todd Perlmutter]

It was about eight to 12 hours, depending on the day. You know, I just had to do just that and then sometimes chop wood sometimes and cook and eat. And that was about it.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right. So 50 days. So I was talking to a guy last year who went to a 10 day silent Vipassana retreat and he said I only made it five days. I couldn't handle it after I had to leave. He Sundays, but after five days I could look at a leaf and I could see the space between the molecules. So that's after five days. I'm wondering what, what came to you in 50 days of meditation in the New Zealand forest?

[Todd Perlmutter]

So many things. A lot of it wasn't realized until I left. And then I realized what the absence of boredom and impatience feels like. You know, something I didn't really notice at the time, but once I got to the city, everything's so fast. Everything is, you know, like just a waiter saying, can I get you some water? I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. You know, it was just really, it was the discovery that the mind is everything, that we are the source of whatever we are experiencing. And it was to realize how I can redirect my focus, my consciousness, my attention, my awareness to wherever I consciously choose to. Usually it's unconscious. Usually we obsess over something negative. And with all this time to just stare at my mind, I, I really understood it on a much deeper level.

[Warwick Schiller]

You know, at this point in time, you've done quite a bit of meditating and stuff. Was there, was, was there times, especially at the start, where it was, it was a struggle, like you, your skin was crawling or were you like, okay, I've done this before or.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, yeah, I, I had done like up to a week before that by myself with, you know, in the woods a few times. So it wasn't super unfamiliar. This was obviously the, like, most stuff had to make a couple trips because, you know, like four, four giant bags of food was a little too hard to carry at once. But once I got out there, it's kind of. Every time I do this, there's like a one day panic attack until I go to bed and wake up the next morning. You know, once I get to my place and I set up the tent and then I'm in my tent at night, that's when I start to think, what have I done? This is ridiculous. Nothing's going to happen. I should go back now. Well, it's too late. It'll be, it's dark. I'll, I'll sleep and I'll go back tomorrow. But then by the time I woke up, you know, it's, you're, you're just, you're, you're breathing that positive energy of nature. You are, you can't help but become peaceful when you're just surrounded by that peace and beauty. So pretty quickly that went away. But there were definitely times, you know, probably like day 20 and day 40 where I was like, I miss my friends. I'm out of here. But, you know, I just stuck it out and it was the greatest experience of my life. And on day 49, I couldn't wait to get out. And on day 51 or day one of being outside I couldn't wait to go back. I haven't been back, but I realized how peaceful and just amazing that is. But I also know that that's. That's not exactly a way of life for. For me and where I was at the time. So, you know, I. I integrated that and I, you know, I still. I still feel different after that experience.

[Warwick Schiller]

Right. So when you've written two books, when did the books come along?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, the. The kind of goal of the journey was like to. To always write a book. And so. And as a writer in advertising, it was kind of a natural progression. But I'd say about like maybe five, four or five years ago was one of my first books came out. And.

[Warwick Schiller]

Well, when was the 50 days in New Zealand?

[Todd Perlmutter]

When did that happen? Yeah, that happened in something like 2018, maybe 2019.

[Warwick Schiller]

Oh, so the. The book was either just before that. Was the book before that?

[Todd Perlmutter]

No, after. Okay, yeah. Yeah, the books came once I got back to the U.S. okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, just taking a lot of notes during my trip, taking some audio notes sometimes, and then had a journal in the. In the forest. That's how I kind of. Kind of wrote it.

[Warwick Schiller]

And. Okay, so your first book, what's it called? Well, the Cliff Notes. What's it about?

[Todd Perlmutter]

The. The one that I'd say is. The one to get first is aloneness to oneness. And that is a lot about this journey and just kind of a lot of all of the insights that I discovered, all the lessons I learned along the way. There's other books. There's finding your true self, a love story, which is a lot about realizing that we are more than these separate, isolated, disconnected bodies. You know, we are deeply connected. We are made of every ancestor that came before us, and we are truly infinite potential. We are not our past. We are not know our current situation even. We are just limitless beings of infinite potential. And we. We really forget that we are the miracle of life. And I think that if we see that in every moment, we will not. Those little thoughts in our head, those little worries will seem small compared to that truth that we can hold in our. In our minds.

[Warwick Schiller]

So how many books are there? Because it sounded like there was three then when you said that.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, I've. I've written probably eight or nine.

[Warwick Schiller]

Oh, really? Okay. I was. Oh, okay. So your bio says, and the author of such popular books as alone to oneness and finding your true self, but there's. There's others.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yes. Yes.

[Warwick Schiller]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

There's death, life and oneness. Spiritual wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita. And so that is just like my kind of take on that and kind of making it more accessible, more relevant to our modern time.

[Warwick Schiller]

So you've got the author bit and I know I asked you this kind of at the start of the whole thing and you said what you do, but how do you do that? Do you, do you. Are you public speaker? Are you working with people one on one? Do you have workshops? What do you. How's all that work?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Mostly I will do talks when invited and I will. I have worked with people in the past. I'm not currently, but that's something we're working towards getting a space to be able to do. Yep. And then a lot of. Just through the Internet as well.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, cool. So I might get to some of these questions that you chose. And I love to read and so I'm always really happy when someone chooses the book question because I want to know what book. So tell me what the question is. What book do you recommend the most? Not necessarily your favorite book, but one that you recommend to others?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, I would, I would recommend Aloneness to Oneness and I would hate to recommend my own book, but to me it really is like an all encapsulating book that I have not found elsewhere that kind of covers the east and the west and the science and the spirituality. And I think that this holistic view is like a great place to start for people and then in the end it even goes into the deeper practices as well.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, cool.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Let me ask you this though. What do you have a. Do you have a favorite book, like for you, like not to recommend others, but what's your favorite book?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, I will say that my, my Introduction to Spirituality was really Eckhart Tolle's Power of Noun.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay. Yep.

[Todd Perlmutter]

When I was 16, I thought it was a book to stop procrastinating. And I had a big procrastination problem and just waiting till the last minute to do everything and sometimes five minutes before class finishing, you know, homework and studying for tests. And so that was another, you know, accidental, but not probably one of those things that dropped into my lap and opened my eyes to, you know, there's more than just like there's a different thing than religion. That's, that's what that book kind of taught me is that there's the spiritual element beyond religion that I had never, you know, heard of before. So that, that was a book that had a big impact on me.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yes, I think it's had an Impact on a lot of people. Okay, next question was, if you could spread a message throughout the world, one that people would listen to, what would that be?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I would, I'll spend the rest of my life doing it. And it's talking about oneness, talking about this way of seeing the world that we truly can like, literally see differently. And it applies to every aspect of our life. When I feel like the consciousness of our people has been raising anyway, you know, it's just been expanding. We don't. Slavery is not, you know, as widespread and we. War is pretty much a atrocious thing to everyone and we couldn't imagine killing our brothers and sisters. But I think we need to go even farther and, and to recognize that this oneness is, it's so important in every aspect, politics, religion and in our personal lives that this idea of, you know, how would you treat others, knowing that they are you, how would you get to that place where war is unthinkable, violence is unthinkable, selfishness, greed, cruelty, anger become unthinkable? And to me it's, it's a, it's a very real thing. And it's, it's probably the most important thing I can think of that we could be talking about, learning about. And of course, every religion has spoken to it in their own way, you know, love thy neighbor as yourself. But I think that we can really dissolve all of these labels and identities that dis. Disconnect us.

[Warwick Schiller]

You know, you mentioned before sometime I think it's had to do with your forest experience, but you said something about without my phone and you know, all this technology on one hand is a bad thing. But I also, you know, you said, I think that the consciousness is changing and I think technology's got something to do with. Because, you know, you grew up, did you grow up Catholic?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Reformed Judaism?

[Warwick Schiller]

Reformed Judaism, Okay, I don't know anything about that, so I can't speak to that. But I grew up Catholic and everybody I knew that was Catholic, all my relatives, whatever, they're only Catholic from on Sunday from 10:00 to 11:00 or 9:00 to 10:00, depending which mass you went to. And you really don't know anything any different. But along comes the Internet. And now looking at the world in a lot of different ways is right there at your fingertips, if you so choose to. And I, and I really don't think anybody sees the world differently and goes, ah, now I'm going back. Like I. There, there is a bit of missing the old Thing like life was a bit, I think life was less complicated when I was completely ignorant of other things. But, but you know what I mean though, I think the Internet has helped us do that. Not, not just spiritually anything, you know, like, I don't know, Travis Pastrana pulls off the first double backflip on a motorbike. You know, no one knew it was even possible. Once he could do it, then everybody could. You know, not everybody could do it, but, you know, people were trying that sort of thing. So, yeah, I do think that the technology, I do think that the expanded consciousness has a lot to do with technology, but I also think the worsening mental health crisis also has a lot to do with technology.

[Todd Perlmutter]

So a hundred percent, you know, and that's, that's an, a great example of how it's, it's not the thing, it's how we relate to it. And the potential is unbelievable and the down downsides is there as well. But I am also optimistic and I think that it really is, it's making us smarter, which I think is a good thing. And you know, if people are using it for self evolution, then it's, it's, it's, it's an incredibly powerful tool. Personally as well.

[Warwick Schiller]

It surely is. Okay, next question for you is what is the worst advice given in. What do you feel is the worst advice given in your profession?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Well, the thing that I see people struggle with the most and it, it makes me really sad for them when I see them struggling, which is that a lot of people tell their followers or, you know, it's kind of just common knowledge in a lot of different cultures that if you're a good person, only good things will happen to you. And, you know, death is coming for us all. And I see a lot of people have a big crisis of faith when tragedy does strike. And, you know, that question of why me? Is so profound. And what I find is that with spirituality, with real spirituality, it diminishes the level of suffering, not the inevitable tragedies in our lives. You know, it's there. You know, it's kind of like there will be pain, but suffering is optional. And so I have a hard time seeing people be told in this kind of field, if you do this, only great things will happen. If you give us this, then you'll get that tenfold money back or whatever. You know, it's the universe. You know, we can be safe, we can be healthy, we can focus on love and peace and happiness. But also there are random things outside of our control that will also happen. And so I think that the best thing to do in spirituality is to face that fear and not to run away from it or pretend like it's not there, because I think then that way we're just stuffing it down. And when we do need that inner strength, you know, it's going to be more difficult to come to terms with whatever happens.

[Warwick Schiller]

You mentioned earlier on that, you know, if you hadn't going down the path that you'd gone down, there were some tragedies that came along that, you know, that would have been. I don't know the good word for it, but they. They would have been catastrophic to you.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Mm.

[Warwick Schiller]

Looking back on those, those things were. They was. Were they actually a gift from the universe at. Not at the time, but looking back now, 100%.

[Todd Perlmutter]

You know, we're either enjoying or growing. Right. And, you know, it's. Especially in what I do, you know, anything when real life happens, that just helps create empathy. It creates connection and an understanding of what other people who are even going through much worse, you know, are struggling with. So. And it all has led to this moment right here. And I wouldn't trade this moment for anything. And we have to realize that there is no way to change a tragedy without changing everything in this universe. You know, we can't pick and choose. Every. Every good thing came from every bad thing, and every bad thing came from every good thing. You know, it's all this change of forms. And I think that being able to create some perspective, to step out of our mind, that tornado going on when we're in the middle of it, and to feel like we're stepping off the roller coaster and we're just watching the roller coaster. Know, that's. That's the difference that I think everything has helped me learn and grow towards.

[Warwick Schiller]

One of the questions you asked, which you answered before, was, what's the worst advice given in your profession? The other question that you chose was, what's a common myth you wish to debunk from your profession?

[Todd Perlmutter]

What was I going to say to that?

[Warwick Schiller]

1.

[Todd Perlmutter]

1 Is that the whole.

[Warwick Schiller]

No, you chose the question, what's a myth?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh, well, I think I was probably going to say that I think a lot of people think spirituality means crystals and horoscopes. And so it's a term that's kind of has 8 billion definitions. And so the myth to debunk is that from my experience, it's really indescribable. I mean, indistinguishable from science. It is. Science wants to learn about the human mind by studying other people's. And I think that they would learn more studying their own, the one they have direct access to. And so to me, that's. That's the major difference between the two. And, you know, when we learn about our own mind, we learn about everyone's mind. We know we're not, we're not all that different. And beneath the story, the identity, it's really all the same. And so there is this. By studying your own mind, you understand human nature, you understand the inner conflict people are having. You understand the nature of suffering and struggle so that the. Everyone can have the same keys to breaking through that and to realizing a life that is really not free from emotion, but free from suffering. You know, we still feel the emotion. We don't resist it, we don't reject it, we don't fear it. We allow sadness, we allow anger. And through doing so, it's like always having in the back of our mind, you know, I've got this, I've got this. I can get through this, I can do this. And that's, that's really where I think the suffering that most people are experiencing goes through, where there's a deep fear that of hopelessness and things will never get better. And that however we're feeling will be how we feel forever. And, you know, we just, in spirituality, we just, in my view of spirituality, we just practice and keep practicing the welcoming this moment and letting go of it and just make that a constant practice.

[Warwick Schiller]

This too shall pass.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Amen.

[Warwick Schiller]

Another one of the last question that you chose was what do you do to relieve stress?

[Todd Perlmutter]

That's a good one. For me, it is definitely, you know, meditation, gym. But even more than that, whenever I'm in the moment and feeling stressful, that is the time I really look at the mind and I really focus on my breathing as well, because I feel like the breath is that doorway between the mind and the body. And when we are stressed, we hold our breath, we have shallow breathing, choppy breathing, and that signals to the body to go into that stress response. So just taking some attention from our mind and whatever is going on and taking some of that and putting it in my body, putting it in my breath, making sure I'm doing deep breathing naturally turns on that relaxation, you know, parasympathetic nervous system you mentioned.

[Warwick Schiller]

I don't know if you said exercise of working out before. What do you, what do you do?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Um, well, I. I mean, hiking is the best. Swimming is the best. I really love swimming because it is, it is Breath work. You know, it's. You gotta be totally conscious of your breath and you're gonna be taking deep, deep breaths. And so that is one that I've just always kind of gravitated towards. But, you know, lifting weights in yoga, the whole. The whole thing is really important for me.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I've, you know, I've suffered with depression for quite a long time or, you know, I don't want to own it, but I've had problems with it. And one of the struggles with that is, you know, when you. You have a lack of motivation to do things, but then you're told that the. The answer is exercise. You need to exercise, but you don't have the wherewithal, the exercise. You know what I mean? And it's. It can be a bit of a. Can be a bit of a catch 22.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know situation. I've been there. I know other people who've been there, and it's like I can't even get out of bed, let alone exercise.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, I've never been that way. But there's, you know, there's been a certain lack of energy. But I do, I do think giving yourself a challenge. I signed up for a thing in Argentina. It was early this year, but I signed up a couple years ago for it, which is a thing called the Gaucho Derby, which is a survival race on horseback across parts of Patagonia. And it was really good because if I'm not fit for that, there are consequences. And those weighing those consequences versus do I really want to work out serious consequences? It's. It was a. It was a great, great thing to have those consequences weighing there because it was. It makes you a little bit more motivated to. To do things. And then I think in. In doing that, I found maybe an inner strength or an inner energy that I hadn't had before. So I. Well, you know, I think it's always good to. To if you can. You know, it's like maybe signing up for a half marathon or something. Rather having a. Having a goal like that to. To cause yourself to need to push yourself, I think is helpful.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think that that's impressive. Wow. Yeah, that would definitely force you to get in shape, right? Horse racing?

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, well, yeah. Well, the thing is, you know, it's. It was going to be. If you're not fully prepared, not just in physically, but, you know, you. It's a. It's a survival race, so you've got to carry your you can have a 22 pound. You were talking about carrying five bags of food into the wilderness. You've got a 22 pound pack on the bag of your horse and that's going to have your tent, your jet, boil your food, emergency stuff. Like it's, it's pretty sparse sort of thing. And so, you know, I'm not terribly organized either and it caused me to have to be organized and I don't, you know, terribly like exercise and it caused me to do that. So, yeah, I think it's, I just think it's good to have a. Find something like that that, that might cause you to have to apply yourself a little more.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, I think, you know, getting out of your comfort zone, being in a situation like that where there's like accountability and you're, you've committed can really help when people are really stuck in a, in a loop and having a hard time changing their, their habits. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yes, certainly helped me. Signed up for another one now. I'm doing one in Kenya next year.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Wow.

[Warwick Schiller]

Similar thing, similar thing on horseback. Same distance, 500 kilometers, but this one I think will be a little quicker. The other one, we had 10 days to complete the race. I think the one in Kenya's seven days. And, and then you've also got the added. The reason you went to New Zealand, you went there so nothing would eat you.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yes.

[Warwick Schiller]

In Patagonia is the same thing. Nothing's going to eat you there. But in Africa it might.

[Todd Perlmutter]

So that's true. Yeah. And I forgot to mention there was beautiful wild horses through my forest and every, every now and then they would come graze in the morning and it was just spectacular to see. They, they really are my like gurus and companions throughout this journey. You know, my, I grew up in Kentucky, so we grew up a little bit around horses and, and then these, these friends in New Zealand just keep coming over and you know, they, they really did teach me so much. They are really special creatures. I noticed that no matter how many flies or mosquitoes are biting them, they will use, you know, use their tail to knock them off. But they'll never get mad. You know, they'll never get frustrated. There's, there's just this action needs to be done. I do it with peace and it's a beautiful lesson.

[Warwick Schiller]

Yeah, there's no suffering in that, is there? That's, you know, that's the thing about animals, though. You know, like, for a long time I think people thought that animals don't feel pain. You know, they used to think that infants don't feel pain, but I don't think it's that they don't feel pain, but they don't, they don't suffer. You know, like I grew up on a sheep farm in Australia and you might, you know, go out there one day and there's a sheep there that has broken her back leg and what is she doing eating grass with her back leg dangling there. Like, you know, you talked about being at Miraval, which is in Tucson, Arizona. My son was, when he was in college, was getting into rock climbing and for spring break he signed up for a week long rock climbing thing at a place called Cochise's Stronghold, I think it's called, and it's in those hills above Tucson there. And the very first day he's climbing and he's reached up and he's put weight on his hand and his shoulders popped out of joint.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh my goodness.

[Warwick Schiller]

It had popped out a few times before, but anyway, he should have popped out of joint. And so then they've got to lower him to the ground. But in the lowering to the ground he would have had pain and suffering. The pain of the shoulder being out of joint. But the suffering would be the stories about, oh God, I've spent all this money and I've spent my spring break to come in, I'm not going to be able to climb. My friends are off drinking beer and yeah, you know, all of that stuff. And animals don't, they don't have that like, okay, my arm's broken, my leg's broken, or what, you know, I've got a pain here or the flies are annoying me, I'll just swish them with my tail. It's not like, oh, these damn flies, I'm sick of them.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Exactly. Yeah, I, I had, had. I learned that because after living in India and having some nights where I was getting so mad at the mosquitoes, I mean, you know, what good does that do? They're not going to listen to me yelling at them. But yeah, so horses. One of the high Buddhist llamas I met told me when I was telling him about The New Zealand 50 days, he said, be like nature. And you know, sometimes they say something so simple, but it's like, wow, yeah, if I could do that, we'll be all right.

[Warwick Schiller]

Wow. Be like nature. That's pretty cool. That's the thing, you know, I think that's for us horse people, that's something that the horses do is bring us more in line with nature, you know, especially if you're doing a lot of stuff with horses. And you want the horses to do a lot of stuff. You can't make things happen. You've got to kind of go with the. With the laws of nature. You speaking of the time you spend in the forest there, it's funny, there is a South African guy I heard on Tim Ferriss's podcast. Guys name is Boyd Varty. And at one point in time, he spent 40 days living in a tree in South Africa.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh, wow.

[Warwick Schiller]

Similar sort of thing, what you did. But, you know, he said one day he was chopping wood and the ax slipped and it hit him in the foot, and it was very painful.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh, man.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay. And he started screaming and yelling or whatever, and then he realized, huh, there's no one around here to hear me. And so he stopped having this suffering about whacking himself in the foot with this. With this ax. He didn't chop his foot off or anything. He just whacked it hard, you know, like good with a hammer or something. And he said as soon as I stopped complaining about it, it wasn't near as bad. And he said I was compl. I was complaining until I realized there was no one listen me complain. And I stopped complaining. And then the suffering went away. So it's very much like that.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Amazing. That is exactly what it is. A Buddhist monk told me in the Himalayans, he said, life fires the first arrow at us. We fire the second one at ourselves with our reaction. And he said the key is to turn that second arrow into an acupuncture needle of healing.

[Warwick Schiller]

Boom. Boom. Life. Life lessons from Buddhist monks. That's awesome.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, that really is it.

[Warwick Schiller]

Very cool, Todd. Well, thank you for sharing all that with us. How can people find you?

[Todd Perlmutter]

East west is our foundation website where everything is linked and kept there. You can find the books and the YouTube and the podcast. So. And then on social media. ToddPerl T O D D P E R E L is the handle on Instagram and. And yeah, Facebook is.

[Warwick Schiller]

Todd Perlmutter, you just told me something I didn't know. And you said you can find the podcast. Do you have a podcast?

[Todd Perlmutter]

I do. It's called Path to Peace with Todd Perlmutter. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Really?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

And is it. Do you talk to people in there or is it you talking about things?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Just me talking. Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

Super cool. How many episodes you got?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Maybe 130, something like that.

[Warwick Schiller]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah.

[Warwick Schiller]

So you've been doing it for a while?

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, a little bit. About once a week. A couple years.

[Warwick Schiller]

About once a week. And you've been going for probably three years now.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Yeah, about two and a half, something like that.

[Warwick Schiller]

Reason I can guess that is because we roughly have one a week and I'm about episode 160. So I figured you must have been. You must have started around the same time I did. Probably about the same time most people did. Covert can't get out and about. People want to listen to things.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Exactly. Yeah. Crazy times.

[Warwick Schiller]

Perfect. Okay. Well Todd, thank you so much for joining us. A great for you, great listening to you share your story.

[Todd Perlmutter]

Oh pleasure Warwick, thank you so much for having me.

[Warwick Schiller]

And yeah, love what you're doing out there in the world. Keep doing it.

[Todd Perlmutter]

All right man, stay in touch.

[Warwick Schiller]

Okay, thanks so much.

Thanks for being a part of the journey. On podcast with Warwick Schiller, Warrick has over 850 full length training videos on his online video [e-mail] Be sure to follow Warrick on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram to see his latest training advice and insights.