Live Coaching with Morgan: Building Businesses and Wealth on Your Own Terms

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Journey with Morgan DeBaun Episode: Live Coaching with Morgan: Building Businesses and Wealth on Your Own Terms
Release Date: April 29, 2025

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Journey with Morgan DeBaun, host Morgan DeBaun conducts a live advising session with two vibrant entrepreneurs, Flo Esho and Patrick. The session delves deep into the challenges and strategies of building businesses and wealth while balancing day jobs. Morgan emphasizes the importance of prioritizing life’s pillars—stability, freedom, relationships, money, wellness, and passions—to achieve personal and professional goals with decisiveness and clarity.

---

Guest Profiles

• Flo Esho:

  • Current Roles: Senior Manager of External Communications in a corporate setting, co-owner of a real estate investment property, and founder of a virtual executive assistant agency.
  • Business Goal: Scale her virtual assistant agency to a six-figure income without relinquishing her stable corporate job.
  • Family: Mother of a five-year-old and a seven-week-old, with her husband and mother also part of her household.

• Patrick:

  • Current Roles: Runs a fractional HR consulting business while maintaining a full-time corporate job. Passionate about content creation, filmmaking, and writing.
  • Business Goal: Establish himself firmly in the HR industry and transition towards semi-retirement by building multiple income streams.

---

Balancing Corporate Jobs with Side Businesses

Flo expresses her struggle with managing multiple responsibilities, highlighting the common entrepreneurial dilemma: “should I quit my job in order to scale my business or do I have to do this in order to do that?” (01:30). Morgan advises that by prioritizing life’s pillars correctly, one can achieve goals with less second-guessing.

Flo’s Virtual Assistant Agency:

• Transition to Agency Model: Flo transitioned from a solo virtual assistant to an agency model by hiring 1099 contractors to manage increased client demand without facing burnout ([06:58]-[07:08]).
• Fee Structure: Operates on a monthly retainer, taking home 25-30% of the fee. Flo ensures non-compete clauses to prevent contractors from poaching clients ([07:17]-[07:08]).
• Client Acquisition Challenges: Flo struggles to pivot from solopreneur clients to larger businesses (10:00). Morgan suggests utilizing platforms like Upwork to access decision-makers from established companies ([13:07]-[13:08]).

Morgan’s Insights:

• Online Presence: Morgan commends Flo’s clear problem-solving approach on digital platforms but encourages her to enhance call-to-actions for better client engagement ([11:34]-[12:41]).
• Targeting Higher-Level Clients: Shift focus from networking with solopreneurs to reaching out through professional platforms that cater to established businesses ([08:36]-[18:00]).

---

Financial Planning and Setting Goals

A significant portion of the episode revolves around the necessity of setting clear financial goals to facilitate the transition from full-time employment to entrepreneurship.

Flo’s Financial Approach:

• Definition of Wealth: Flo defines wealth as having the flexibility to support her family and live spontaneously without financial strain ([03:24]-[04:10]).
• Setting a Financial Goal: Flo acknowledges her lack of a concrete financial target but commits to determining a "comfortable seven-figure number" to guide her semi-retirement plans ([30:51]-[31:35]).

Patrick’s Strategy:

• Financial Independence: Patrick utilizes the Coast FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) calculator to determine that he could retire in four years with a $100-$150k annual withdrawal if his investments perform well ([28:05]-[34:29]).
• Action Steps: Emphasizes the importance of defining what to spend in retirement and using investment tools to calculate the required savings to reach financial freedom ([35:15]-[36:15]).

Morgan’s Advice:

• Financial Calculators: Recommends tools like the Coast FIRE calculator to help guests determine their financial milestones. She underscores the importance of aligning financial goals with life’s pillars ([37:57]-[48:21]).

---

Personal Growth and Overcoming Mindset Blocks

The discussion transitions into personal development, focusing on overcoming internal barriers and embracing one’s true self.

Flo’s Challenges:

• Midlife Transition: Flo grapples with the fear of being perceived as having a midlife crisis due to her diverse interests and side projects ([24:15]-[43:29]).
• Age-Related Stereotypes: She feels constrained by societal expectations related to age and career transitions but is encouraged to embrace her multifaceted identity ([43:02]-[51:38]).

Patrick’s Encouragement:

• Embracing Change: Encourages stepping out of comfort zones by engaging in activities that bring joy, such as roller skating, to break free from the "suit" mindset ([42:45]-[46:53]).
• Creating a Balanced Life: Discusses the importance of integrating personal passions with professional responsibilities to achieve fulfillment ([46:06]-[51:38]).

Morgan’s Framework:

• Six Pillars of Life: Morgan reiterates her framework mapping stability, freedom, and money as core pillars for Flo, advising her to honor these in her decision-making process ([23:17]-[25:59]).

---

Operational Efficiency and Business Structuring

Flo elaborates on her business operations to showcase how her agency maintains smooth client-assistant relationships.

Client Onboarding Process:

• Discovery Calls: Flo conducts thorough discovery calls to understand client priorities and match them with suitable assistants ([15:56]-[17:31]).
• Onboarding Procedures: Implements detailed onboarding sessions to ensure seamless integration between clients and assistants ([16:00]-[17:31]).

Operational Smoothness:

• Flo emphasizes that her operational processes are designed to handle scalability without compromising service quality, stating, “operationally it's pretty smooth” ([15:56]-[17:31]).

---

Strategic Marketing and Audience Targeting

Morgan provides actionable marketing strategies to help Flo attract higher-tier clients.

Podcast Appearances:

• Targeted Podcasts: Suggests Flo leverage business-focused podcasts to reach decision-makers, differentiating her services from generic virtual assistant offerings ([17:31]-[20:43]).
• Unique Selling Proposition: Highlights Flo’s unique approach of assisting both professional and personal aspects of clients’ lives as a differentiator ([19:35]-[20:43]).

Content Optimization:

• Enhanced Call-to-Actions: Morgan advises Flo to make her calls-to-action more prominent to convert website visitors into clients effectively ([11:34]-[12:41]).
• Social Media Strategy: Recommends consistent and problem-solving content on platforms like Instagram and LinkedIn to attract and engage her target audience ([10:35]-[12:41]).

---

Conclusion and Call to Action

As the session wraps up, Flo and Patrick express their gratitude for the insightful advice. Flo commits to setting her financial targets, exploring writer’s retreats, and embracing a more authentic personal and professional life. Morgan encourages listeners to evaluate their own life pillars and financial goals to advance their entrepreneurial journeys with clarity and purpose.

Key Quotes:

• Flo: “I have a lot happening. And... I really need someone to help me like focus and figure out what the next steps are.” ([02:00])
• Morgan: “Success isn't about the destination, it's about the journey.” ([00:00]-[02:00])
• Patrick: “If money was of no option, how would you spend your time?” ([28:01])
• Flo: “I felt comfortable wearing jeans and a T-shirt... it sort of changed my thinking.” ([40:15])

Final Thoughts: Morgan encourages all listeners to leave a review, engage on social media platforms like Instagram and YouTube, and share how the podcast has impacted their own journeys. She emphasizes the importance of continuous personal and professional development through prioritizing life’s key pillars and setting concrete financial goals.

---

Resources Mentioned:

• Morgan DeBaun’s Book: Rewrite Your Rules
• Financial Tools: Coast FIRE Calculator
• Platforms for Virtual Assistants: Upwork.com
• Investment and Budgeting Resources: Vivian Too, Tiffany the Budget Nista, Terry on Trade and Travel

Connect with Morgan DeBaun:

• Instagram: @MorganDeBaun
• YouTube: The Journey with Morgan DeBaun

---

Embark on your own journey by prioritizing the right pillars and making decisive, informed choices to build a life and business that aligns with your unique definition of success.

Transcript

[Morgan Debon]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Journey podcast. Today we're doing a rewrite your rules live advising session with two incredible entrepreneurs, Patrick and Flo. And here's the thing. A lot of times when I talk to entrepreneurs and I talk to people who are both building their business and have day jobs, there's this constant question about should I quit my job in order to scale my business or do I have to do this in order to do that? And here's the thing. Yes, life is full of trade offs, but I believe that if you prioritize your your pillars in the right way at the right time, then you're going to be able to do anything with less second guessing and more decisiveness, which gets you to your goal faster. So in Patrick's case, we also talk about, where are we going? Patrick, how much money do you need to get to where you want to go in your life? And with Flo, Flo has an amazing business that's already doing very well, but she's trying to figure out how does she get it to the next level. And we talk about her customers. Where are her customers that are going to take her to the next level? Because, and I'll tell you this now, they aren't where she is already. If you haven't already, make sure you buy my book. It is now out. I'm so excited. And I invite you to share your reactions, your thoughts online with reviews on Amazon or of course, you can review it here in the podcast show notes. All right, y'all, let's get into today's episode. Hey, everyone. I'm Morgan Debon, a passionate entrepreneur and life advisor. With the Journey podcast, you'll discover that success isn't about the destination, it's about the journey. I'm sharing stories of amazing people who've taken control of their lives. Join me on my own journey to discover the secret sauce behind reaching success with permission from no one else. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Journey podcast. I'm here with Flo Esho, and today we're doing a live advising session so that Flo can rewrite her rules. So, Flo, what brought you on the show today? Why did you decide to sign up for some live advising?

[Flo Esho]

Thank you, Morgan. First of all, I just want to say that I am obsessed with you. I'm so excited to be here. I'm obsessed with blavity and everything that you do on that side. And I'm here today because my brain goes a thousand miles a minute. I feel like I have a lot happening. And when I Was writing the answers to the questions to get on the show. I was just like, wow, I really need someone to kind of help me like focus and figure out what the, what the next steps is in terms of what I should be putting most of my energy into. So just a quick little background. I have a corporate job in communications. I'm a senior manager of external communications for a company. I have a real estate investment property with my husband. I have a virtual executive assistant agency, which was really the main reason that prompted me to want to be on your show is because of that aspect of my life, that side business that I have going on. Because I would love to scale it and get it to become a six figure business and to kind of complement what I already have in like my corporate world. Because my definition of freedom and wealth is being able to go on a trip next month without having to save up six months to do that. Being able to like send money home to my family in Nigeria when they need it without feeling like I need to pull it out of my savings account and things like that. So I have a corporate job that pays me pretty well, But I also have the side business that I want to continue to grow and scale to be able to have that kind of like dual income.

[Morgan Debon]

That's great. Yeah, I think that's what I love about what you just said, is that you already have a really clear definition of your why. Like you're very clear about when I have money, money will be a tool for me to accomplish these things. It's not just for accumulation. And I think it's also really smart that you're already thinking about. I don't want to keep dipping in my savings in order and my basically borrowing against my future and my future freedom for things that are happening now that may need my attention or may need this money. So tell me about your family. Tell me about your. You have one child and another one on the way.

[Flo Esho]

I already had him. I already had him. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Baby's here.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. So he's six weeks, seven weeks old today.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, Congratulations.

[Flo Esho]

Thank you. So I have a five year old and a seven week old and I have a husband and then my mom lives with me too.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. And your husband is working?

[Flo Esho]

Yes, he's. He's a full time artist, so his income es and flows and it's not as consistent as mine, but yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, good. But he has time, I assume?

[Flo Esho]

Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

So that's helpful. And your mom lives in the house as well?

[Flo Esho]

Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

And she helping with the kids.

[Flo Esho]

She, she, she was a Lot more helpful with my first. I think this time she's like, yeah, I got it. I'm going to work.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Flo Esho]

But she does help with, like, cooking, cleaning, and things like that.

[Morgan Debon]

That's good. Yes. Five years is a long time. Yeah.

[Patrick]

Like, I had it back in the day, but yeah, I was like, yeah.

[Flo Esho]

I got it this time. You're good.

[Patrick]

That's good.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, great. And how are you feeling?

[Flo Esho]

I'm feeling good. I'm. I'm feeling out of the newborn fog. We have, like, our little routine going. My husband is very hands on, very supportive. He's doing laundry, going grocery shopping, doing all the things. So I feel good in terms of, like, having the right support.

[Morgan Debon]

Amazing. And are you on parental leave right now?

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

When do you have to go back?

[Flo Esho]

I go back May in May.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, you've got some time.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah, I still have some time.

[Morgan Debon]

That's awesome news.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, great. So you've got a little time to work on the business, which is awesome. And take care of your family.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

So tell me about the virtual assistant business. You started off as a virtual assistant yourself and then build it from there. Let's walk through that initial journey. How long have you had that business?

[Flo Esho]

So I've had it for a little over two years now. And I started it again as just like a side side business because I want to be able to do things. And then I started getting referrals from, like, my existing clients. I started going to networking events myself. I started joining this different, like, Facebook groups of, like, virtual assistant and seeing, like, how successful other people have gotten. And I got to the point where I was getting referrals and needing more time to help support my clients that I didn't have and I didn't want to go back. I have a. I have a bad habit at the past of putting a lot on my plate to the point of just straight burnout. And so I'm learning in the, in the most recent years to kind of like catch myself when that happens. And so with the clients, with the influx of clients that I was getting, I realized that I couldn't support them all. And I didn't want to turn any clients down because who wants to turn down business? So I ended up transitioning to an agency model a little over a year ago. And so I have, I hire 1099 contractors on my team, and then I match them with clients based on the client's needs, what they they, the kind of administrative support they need and stuff like that.

[Morgan Debon]

And tell me about your fee structure.

[Flo Esho]

So it's a monthly retainer.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. And what percentage of the fee are you taking home?

[Flo Esho]

25 to 30%.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. So that's a large agency fee. And so for the virtual assistants, what's preventing them from just going directly to the clients that you have?

[Flo Esho]

So I have in my contract that they can approach my clients for two years. So that's one way. And then another way. Yes, they could technically go to my clients like outside of their window. But when I talk to people, people that don't want to start their own business because they don't want to deal with having to go out and find the clients, they don't want to deal with having to pay for like all the different software and stuff that I'm using or taxes and things like that. So I feel like when I'm doing interviews and finding contractors, those are the type of things that I'm looking for are people that are not initially interested in starting their own businesses and hopefully people that are just trustworthy and are not going to just steal my clients behind my back. And I also have a great rapport with my clients too. Even though I'm not the one that supports them. They meet with me first before they do anything and then I do quarterly touch basis with them as well.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, great. So quality of service, basically you don't have to, the clients just show up on your doorstep, you don't have to do all that work, you don't have to have a gap in pay. So there's all these benefits to the virtual systems that you're providing and the clients, which I think makes a lot of sense. And where are your virtual assistants based?

[Flo Esho]

In the U.S. but all over.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, so you have a U.S. based agency. A lot of virtual assistant agencies are, you know, have. All over the country. Yeah, are all over the world. Really? Fantastic. Okay, so what's holding you back from growing it?

[Flo Esho]

I think the biggest thing is feeling like I don't have enough time. And also because in my mind, in order for me to grow to where I want to be, I need to be like at networking events like every day. But that's just like not realistic. I need to pay into like a coaching program because maybe there's something that I'm missing that I'm just not thinking about, but I haven't done that yet. I, I have in my mind I have like this ideal client of small established businesses with like 10 to 50 employees who have like officers within their organizations, but they don't have the dedicated, like administrative support and they're probably not in the stage where they're ready to hire like a full time W2 employee. But I'm having a hard time identifying where to go to find those people because when I go to networking events today, it's mostly other individual solopreneurs like myself versus like these corporations. So I'm like thinking about what associations can I join where maybe a decision maker from these companies are going to be part of those associations. What? I'm in Atlanta, so like what Atlanta based city progress 10 year future planning meeting do I need to be in where these decision makers are? And I'm having a really, really hard time like identifying where to go find them to even just introduce my business.

[Morgan Debon]

Got it. One of the things that you mentioned a few minutes ago is that a lot of your clients were coming from referrals from other clients. Has that slowed down?

[Flo Esho]

It has slowed down. And also those clients are the solopreneurs versus bigger business. Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, so you're trying to get to the next level of client who needs a little bit more support, who can pay a little bit more and be consistent. Got it. Okay, great. So tell me a little bit about your online presence and how do you manage your social media profiles? What does your website look like? What does that funnel look like right now?

[Flo Esho]

So I have a website and I'm active on two social media platforms, Instagram and LinkedIn in and I post on those twice, twice a week individually.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, and what's the type of content that you're posting? Let's look it up. I'm gonna look it up now.

[Flo Esho]

Okay. Yeah. So the type of content is given, like maybe posting about like a, a problem and explaining like how an executive assistant can help support that problem. Because I don't have a specific niche. I tried to like have a little bit of. Are you a lawyer and you're experiencing this? Are you a realtor and you're experiencing this? Do you have a six figure business and you feel like you don't have enough time to do xyz? This is why having an executive assistant can help support that. So those are the kind of courses just having people think through. What would you do with the time saved if you were to hire an ea? And what kind of problems are you facing right now in terms of overwhelming overload and how can the EA kind of support and relieve that?

[Morgan Debon]

All right, y'all, for those of you all who are not watching me on YouTube, which you should, by the way, I am on Easy Flow Life's LinkedIn, which is amazing.

[Flo Esho]

Thank you.

[Morgan Debon]

It's beautiful. It's straight to the point. It's clear of like, you're clearly describing the problem set. Running a business can feel like a juggling act, but with the right tools, you keep everything flowing smoothly. I think that's brilliant. Right. You're explaining the problem. People are like, yeah, it does feel like a juggling act and offering a solution. I think my initial reaction is like, this is pretty strong. My second note is your call to actions are a little bit buried. So I think you've got, you know, your branding is really great. It looks like a professional agency, so that's really fantastic. You've got testimonials on your homepage, which is awesome. That helps build trust. So I think this is good. So there's nothing about this that I, as an entrepreneur, if someone were to DM me and say, take the look at this, and I would look at this and say, no, I shouldn't hire this business, like, this is, this is fantastic.

[Patrick]

So, okay, thank you.

[Flo Esho]

I'll take that.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. You know, sometimes I don't say this.

[Patrick]

Sometimes I'm like, this is a lot of work.

[Morgan Debon]

This is good. So you've got a great base. So now we just have to add more attention to it. And one of the things that you're trying to do is basically level up into a new category of revenue for yourself, which means you need business owners that also have that kind of revenue. Have you looked into building an account on upwork or other, like, gig platforms?

[Flo Esho]

No, I haven't.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. So I think that might be one thing that could work for you. So Upwork.com is a site that I use to find all of my virtual assistants. And there's basically agency models. You can create an agency on upwork and you can pitch and have. You can literally pitch people who are having job descriptions that are looking for people who are virtual assistants that are domestically based. And also you can hire and source potential VAs from that pool as well.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

The reason why I'm mentioning Upwork and there's actually just quite a few of these types of platforms is because the people who are more senior in nature, you know, they're, they're going to be looking for tools to make this easier for themselves. They're not going to a network event hoping to find an administrative assistant.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

So they're too busy. They're like, like, I would never do that. Right.

[Patrick]

Like, yeah, I'm going to go on.

[Morgan Debon]

Upwork or I'm going to go into this dedicated talent pool with this specific skill set and I'm going to try to find someone to match my needs.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

So you have to think a little bit differently. The things that work at the level before aren't going to work at the level that you want to get to. Yeah, that's just kind of a general rule of life.

[Patrick]

Yeah, right.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

So that would be something to consider. And then you know, the next thing is offering. There are professional organizations. They're not going to be like meetups though. It's going to be like the young professionals organization or the gathering spot we works. Right. Like there's certain communities that attract certain levels of entrepreneur partially because there's a barrier to entry of price within those networks. Right. Like if you're spending 300 or $400 a month on a co working space, you have some discretionary income in your business. So you're looking for people who have indicated that they're already at a certain level.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah, I didn't think. That's a good point. I didn't think about that because I was so stuck on like I like built like a profile of like my ideal company and like how many people work there, what kind of offices do they have and things like that. And so when I think of the gathering spots and co working spaces like that, I don't think that those kind of businesses are there because in my mind they have physical offices.

[Patrick]

But yeah, I don't have an office.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

I have 100 and something employees. Yeah, this is in my backyard.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah, no, very. Yeah, very good point.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. So part of it is just, is just working through the, what I did before isn't necessarily what's going to get me to the next level.

[Patrick]

Yeah, right, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And I think that you're very capable. So now that I've said it now you're going to be able to go off and come up with a fantastic plan and get to where you want to go. Let's say you get three new clients, then what happens? Is there anything operationally that needs to change within the business?

[Flo Esho]

No. So in, in on my website and when I do my discovery calls and in the, in the proposal that I send and everything, I say that typically on average it takes about 14 business days for me to match you with an assistant. And so that gives me time. I already have a pool of assistance within my agency. Some that are already, they already have clients, some that are just sitting and waiting to get clients because for all assistance under my agency this isn't like their full time. This isn't. They're not. They're not dependent on my business to help support them fully. So I have a lot of assistants that are just sitting and I have like all the profiles. And so it normally doesn't even take me 14 days to match a client. But I give myself that in writing just in case there's one that's looking for a unicorn that I don't have that I need to go out into like my virtual assistant world to go find. But yeah, so operationally it's pretty smooth. We meet with you. I meet with you first on the discovery call, kind of learn. One of the questions that I ask is, what are three things? What are your top three priorities that you want to knock out in the next 90 days? And that kind of helped me figure out, like, who has the skill set to kind of help with those things, learn more about your business and things like that. And then once we do that, I figure out who I want to assign to that client. We have an onboarding call for like 90 minutes where we get into the nitty gritty of get on zoom, share your screen. Let me get all the passwords that I need. Let me see how you currently have everything organized in whatever platform you're using. Introduce me to, I need to be introduced to and things like that. And then the assistant and client relationship really begins from that.

[Morgan Debon]

Is the assistant on that call?

[Flo Esho]

Yes. 100. Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, great. So I think we have a good plan. The second thing is you are, you have a good presence. You could consider going on podcasts and just talking through people. Like the question that you want people, the type of client that you're trying to attract isn't, this isn't their first employee.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

So what kind of podcasts does somebody listen to when they're beyond their first employee?

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Right? Yeah, they're listening to business podcasts or listening to shows like this. They're listening to maybe podcast on balance and basically rebalancing their life.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

You have to think about, again, the mindset of this type of entrepreneur and again your problem solution set, which is you're tired, you're doing all the things, your cash flow is tight, you need help, but you can't afford a full time person. And honestly, you may not want the responsibility of yet another W2.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

Here's one thing you maybe didn't think of. Yeah, that's a pitch that I think would resonate with a lot of podcasters especially. I mean, the podcaster themselves might be like, honestly, I need your service. Probably listening to this right now. Being like, I'm going to help. So there's nothing about your business you need to change. It's just your go to market audience.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

They message different audience.

[Flo Esho]

No, I really love the podcast idea. That's a. That's a really good one because especially also, like one of the differentiators for my agency that I always said, like my part of my elevator speech when I meet people is that. Because we know that for most people, especially when it's like small businesses like that, your personal and your business life are very intertwined. It's not like a 9 to 5 where you're like clocking in and clocking out. And so like a typical executive assistant in a corporate setting is really only supporting that executive administratively in the business professionally. But like, our assistants do both. So we're helping you with your inboxes and your calendar, but we're also helping you make doctor's appointments while finding babysitters for your kids and things like that.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. And I think that's a great description because I've made that mistake before where I've hired assistants who were office assistants.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And I'm like, you're a boss. You used to work for this president of this network or this person who did this thing.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, you've got to be able to handle it. And then I'm like, oh, snap, we're not in an office. This is totally different than what you're used to. This is overwhelming. All the slacks and the emails and the calendaring, like, it is much harder or different skill set. It's a different muscle. When you're a remote assistant versus an in office administrative person who's like, I'm going to go grab your lunch.

[Patrick]

Like, right.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, are you going to doordash my lunch?

[Flo Esho]

Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

So I think that's a really good thing to also talk about. A lot of people are going to be curious how AI incorporates into your business, and I think that could be another topic that you just proactively address. So when you're like pitching yourself for podcasts, it's like, hey, why chatbots is actually not the virtual assistant you need.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You got to kind of make it provocative. Like you think chat CBT can do all the things. Let me show you why you're wrong.

[Flo Esho]

Right. Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, so you need to do.

[Patrick]

You got to.

[Morgan Debon]

You're going to have to get a little dramatic.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Temporarily.

[Patrick]

But.

[Morgan Debon]

But you need that attention. You need to grab people's attention.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. Okay. I like it. Thank you.

[Morgan Debon]

Is there anything else on your mind?

[Flo Esho]

Listen, how many minutes do I have? How many hours do you have?

[Patrick]

About five minutes left, I think.

[Flo Esho]

The only other thing is so like with my, with my 9 to 5, I feel like when I. In the online space, when I'm watching different people that I believe are successful and like I want to emulate, most people don't have a 9 to 5. And so I always feel like, especially when I go to networking events and I introduce myself. I almost didn't even say that to you on the call today because I feel like people think that my business is kind of not as serious because I have a 9 to 5. And I feel like it's like a negative thing to have a 9 to 5. But I don't want to quit my 9 to 5. I would love to be able to run both. And so I just would love your opinion on, like, if I was to pitch you, for example, and you find out that I have a 9 to 5, would that be kind of like a negative thing for you?

[Morgan Debon]

No. Most people online are broke. So they may be looking like they've got all this free time and living this life of luxury because they can travel here and travel there and they're broke. Okay. So we don't want to live off of a reflection of a. Of a perceived lifestyle that people are living online.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

I kept my day job at Intuit. I talk about this in Rewrite your rules, my book. I kept my job at Intuit for three years while working on Blavity, even after raising a half a million dollars.

[Flo Esho]

Wow. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Now, was I proactively telling everybody this? No, of course.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

Because what I did was I got a consulting agreement with Intuit. So I wasn't a full time W2, but I still was working a ton.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Had meetings on my calendar blocked off and was showing up and doing my work. And I was. The benefit was I had time and flexibility as a consultant instead of, you know, being in a cubicle for those eight hours a day was really hard to build blavity with that restriction. So I am always going to be someone who says stability can be a core pillar for you. One of the things in the book that I talk about is these six pillars of life. And at any given point, you're prioritizing three of the six. So the six pillars are stability, freedom, relationships, money, wellness, and passions.

[Flo Esho]

Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

For you, right now, stability is a core pillar.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You're the breadwinner, more or less, from a consistency perspective.

[Flo Esho]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

You can't give that up.

[Patrick]

You got two kids, right?

[Flo Esho]

Right. Yes.

[Patrick]

I need.

[Morgan Debon]

It is a core lens that you're going to be operating within. What would you say are your other two?

[Flo Esho]

100? Freedom and money.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. Stability, freedom and money. That makes sense. That is a reflection of how you're living your life. You're willing to trade perhaps wellness and some fun and passions.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Make more money, right? Okay.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And you're willing to. Freedom is interesting because I think what you're saying when you say freedom is freedom for my future.

[Patrick]

When I feel free now.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah, I feel free now. But when I say freedom, like, okay, so I have a cleaner that comes once a month, but I want to put them once a week. That's the freedom that I'm looking for.

[Morgan Debon]

You're working towards freedom. Freedom is a priority to be working towards.

[Flo Esho]

Yes. Yes. I just found this agency when I went to, like, a networking event where she has people come and they do, like, light laundry and they go grocery shopping for you.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Flo Esho]

I can't do Instacart because I shop at farmers markets, so I would love to hire them to come.

[Morgan Debon]

Assistant or a house manager.

[Patrick]

Yeah, Manager.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. I think that your priorities and your pillars are clear and your behavior aligns with your pillars. There's some people who say this, and I'm like, that is not what your behavior reflects, but you are really consistent. And in six months from. From now, you may change those pillars. That's fine. But for now, that is your lens. So you should never feel shame, guilt, like, lack of clarity on, well, should I quit my job? Because if I'm going to be a successful entrepreneur. It seems like every successful entrepreneur has quit their job.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Is that true? Who cares?

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. What?

[Morgan Debon]

Doesn't matter. Do what you're gonna do.

[Flo Esho]

Thank you.

[Morgan Debon]

Stability is important. That is a lens in which you are going to operate through, and that is totally fine.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. Thank you. So I literally feel like, as you were saying, it was just like things are just, like, falling off. So thank you so much. I appreciate that.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. I think you've got a bright future ahead of you. And I think my challenge to you over these next 90 days is focus on where your new level of customers are going to be and where they are and figure out ways where you can expose them to your already fantastic business service, services and offerings. You've got, you know, a moment in time in which you have a little bit more time ownership. Of course, you're taking care of the baby and.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You've got a house full of help.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Which is fantastic. So you might be able to get some things accomplished, you know, in the next few weeks and next few months. That gets your business to another level.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. I'm going to be at the gathering spot on Sunday with you.

[Patrick]

I'll see you.

[Flo Esho]

Thank you so much, Morgan.

[Patrick]

Welcome Flo.

[Morgan Debon]

Thanks for joining the journey.

[Patrick]

Bye.

[Morgan Debon]

Bye.

[Patrick]

So Patrick, tell me a little bit about what's going on in your life.

[Flo Esho]

Morgan, what's not going on in my life, it's. It's one of these things where I am, I'm not saying I'm at a crossroad, but I am trying to figure out sort of what's next, how to really establish myself in an industry like HR where I've been in. I started, I launched a. Well, let me just back it up. I launched a fractional consulting business as a side, sort of like your side gig, your side hustle because we know that that's kind of what you need. You just need to do it in this economy or whatever. And I started about probably two years ago, but I still have great full time job as well. But I'm trying to think about what does that next chapter for me is kind of. I don't want to say retire. Well, I will say it's kind of like the retirement, semi retirement type of thing. While still there's like I'm a content creator, well part time content creator, filmmaker type of person. I want, I still have a passion to screenwrite, to do that. I want to write a book. I'm still trying to balance home life while still wanting to pursue all of these things so that when the full time goes away I will have other things to keep me, to keep me fulfilled. And I know it sounds like, oh, this 40 plus year old guy's having a midlife crisis. I don't know. But it's like I don't have the structure all the way in how I want these, how I want to pursue all these things to set myself up for like this long term success, I guess.

[Patrick]

Yeah. If money was of no option, how would you spend your time?

[Flo Esho]

If money was no option, I honestly I feel that I would. I probably make films because I think my passion lies in the film and screenwriting. I find myself a little funny. So I think as a comedy writer I'd want to write like projects for the people that in my box, the 40 and over people type of thing. So I would just write but I would write from Barcelona and not.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I like that.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

And you live in Atlanta, right?

[Flo Esho]

I do, I live in Atlanta. Past 25 years. Atlanta is kind of home.

[Patrick]

That's great. And tell me a little bit more about kind of your work life.

[Flo Esho]

So my work life again, as I stated, my full time career is great. I love the work that I do. It fulfills me. I am in that HR space providing support to thousands of employees. Whether it's putting together the sort of the infrastructure for once they join a company or thinking about like the future of work. As we know, the workforce has changed so much over the past five years and it's continuing to evolve. So that excites me because there's an unknown there. But then I also I probably about five to seven hours a month my consulting business that I provide fractional HR support to startups where it's building out people's strategy once they're either a pre series A or series A and they are not at the point of having a full time people team because maybe it's five to 10 employees, right. I'm there to kind of consult, give feedback, give suggestions on when it's time to get that full time person. That beats me.

[Patrick]

Great.

[Flo Esho]

Then of course I write every day. I'm writing every day because I think you never know, something could happen. I could sell a script or who knows. But that's, yeah, absolutely.

[Patrick]

Well, I mean I think it's smart that you have taken your side hustle which is effectively just an extension of the skill set that you can do so naturally. I think a lot of times people pick side hustles that aren't tied to their day job and then they're actually working really hard on their side hustle because it's not natural to what they're already doing every day. Right. Like you can do your side hustle in your sleep because you have 25 plus years experience in HR. So when a company is hiring and needs their first employee handbook, you're like, yeah, I can, this is, I can do this in my sleep.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Patrick]

So I think it's so important for people when they have these side hustles that they're doing something that is like natural to them so that it is easier to make that transition when it's time. Do you have a number for that you want to hit in terms of net worth or like income? Passive income?

[Flo Esho]

Morgan. You know, I've never thought about that. I've never, I honestly have never thought about a number.

[Patrick]

How will you know when you can retire? Like how will you know when your full time job is optional?

[Flo Esho]

I would say, I. Wow. I normally would say, let me get back to you on that, but I want to be transferring to the moment I believe to be comfortable. And that retirement phase, I would at least say if once I hit a 3, 2, or when I want to put a number, I'll say at least a comfortable seven figure number, I'll know that it's time for me to. Well, that. Wait, hold on. I'm sorry, Morgan. That's why I said I'm all over the place. That's.

[Patrick]

No, I mean, these are real questions.

[Morgan Debon]

It's all good.

[Patrick]

We're here together.

[Flo Esho]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna write it down though, because I've never thought about that. I'll just say if I start generating a low seven figure number from the, the side hustle, then I'd be like, oh, this is a time for me to step away, because the long end goal is to be able to retire with a comfortable seven figure retirement saving in my account.

[Patrick]

Yeah. I think it's important for you to spend some time, you know, later this weekend and actually think through that number. And the way to think through it is actually, do you own or you rent right now?

[Flo Esho]

Own.

[Patrick]

Okay, so that's great, right, because that means you have a clear number of, like, by this time, I will no longer have a mortgage.

[Flo Esho]

Yes.

[Patrick]

Outside of your mortgage, is there any other really high expenses that you have on a monthly recurring basis?

[Flo Esho]

No. And I think, you know, Morgan, the funny thing I always present myself to, and my friends get on to me about the fact that I say that I am a moderate, highly progressive liberal that is very fiscally conservative financially. So I, I try to limit, like, I know when what year my house will be paid off for.

[Patrick]

Exactly. So that's great. So you probably really do have a clear pathway once you do the numbers to say, once my mortgage is paid off, how much does it cost for me to live? Right. And not just to live. Not just my. Like, I can have DoorDash two, three times a week live, but like, spend a month in Barcelona or spend three months in Barcelona if you want.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Patrick]

Like, I call this your kind of your wealthy life that you have to like, really dream up your wealthy vision. And then you got to work backwards for how much does it cost? Because it doesn't typically cost as much as we think. Right. Like, so for me, it's like, okay, I want to spend a month in Martha's Vineyard in August, which means that we need to rent a house which is going to cost $20,000 a month, and then we want to spend, you know, a month in Europe over The summer. Because why not? This is my wealthy vision. Nobody can judge it. This can be whatever you want it to be. Unapologetic, right? I want a Che. You know, I'm like, shoot. When you calculate my doordash every month, I probably already have enough money for a chef, if you really look at it right? So you just start to. You start to plan it out, and then magically. What happened for me when I did this exercise, Patrick, is that I realized I'm not that far away. Like, with my investments in my portfolio and with my 401k from even just my early years working in tech, you know, those. Your 401k can go up pretty quickly. And then with the income that I have in my day job, plus the income that I have in my side hustle, which is Devon & Company, which is arguably sometimes debonico, makes more money than Blavity because I'm a fixed salary at Blavity, right. And I'm a responsible CEO, so there's only so much I can make that.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So when I do the math, it literally says I could work for four more years and then be done and withdraw about 100 to $150,000 a year if I needed to. So what that then tells me is great. Now how I make decisions about how I spend my time completely shifts. When you realize, okay, y'all got four more years of me having to work. So anything I do after that point has to fulfill me a hundred percent. There's nothing that I will do after that point unless I want to do it right? So no brand deals for $10,000. If I'm like, I don't even like this brand, I am not gonna do it. Nope. Right? Like, nothing.

[Flo Esho]

Right.

[Patrick]

You know, and that level of freedom allows me to also then make temporary moments now where if my fiance Josh, has a deal and he's got to go run, and I got to go run, we're like, you know what? In my head, I'm like, but this is getting me a couple more months faster to my goal. Right. So it also helps justify moments where we're both working really, really hard. So I would really encourage you to think about that number for you and think about that vision for yourself and price it out.

[Flo Esho]

I am. And I mean, it's almost embarrassing the fact that I've never. I knew what my goal or what I want, but I've never actually put it in that context. And I can assure you that you better believe this tonight, actually, because I live off a checklist. I'm gonna really think about that so I can think about what that number is and look at my 401k more and see what is that. Yeah, because I never really.

[Patrick]

You're gonna be surprised. I bet you're gonna be pleasantly surprised, my friend. That it's gonna be something that's within your reach. And then when it comes to your, your side business, you know, it's not to say, okay, well you know, I can, I can semi retire effectively and call it 3, 4, 5 years if your side business is able to give you that, that location freedom that you desire. Because when you're working for startups, you don't have to necessarily go into their office. You could do a one day, two day in office situation and then leave. Then you could live in Spain if you wanted to. Why don't you live in Spain now, Patrick?

[Flo Esho]

That's the gold man. That is the gold. Morgan man.

[Patrick]

What else would you put on your list?

[Flo Esho]

I would, you know, the thought of if money, I would probably spend time to writing the book because again, I do find a sense of calmness in my writing. So when I can write and I'm also, and this is why I said I'm all over the place and I'm so appreciative of being able to have this conversation with you today. It is just like I'm really passionate about working with the young, the young generation per se. Like I used to do motivational speaking in the high schools and this was probably 15 years ago. And I know high school life has changed a lot with technology and stuff, so I would want to spend my time doing things that have even bigger impacts like that too for a while. So if money was an option, I would write some books, visit some high schools, get them excited about the journey of what's ahead and then just maybe do some like international global mentoring or something like that. Like that's what I said. I'm kind of all over the place trying to get it structured to a place of happiness so I can look forward to what that journey next life looks like for me.

[Patrick]

I think philanthropy. I mean most people when they retire, they start giving back, they start doing things with kids, they start spending more time in, you know, volunteering for the museums and doing, you know, whatever makes them happy and brings them joy. I would encourage you to figure out how you can do more of that now. You know that you don't have to wait until this imaginary number to start to get back into writing those books and getting those things out there and self publishing or Looking for a publisher and an agent to get that to the next step. Let's talk about your screenplay. So what are you doing to build that tribe and that network working?

[Flo Esho]

I love the on spot accountability because I find. What. Well, I just, I write a lot and I do enter a couple of competitions a few times a year and they've been kind of successful. I've placed a couple of times and I've shot a couple of projects and that's kind of been it. I haven't really been building that tribe like I should. Now. I have thought about it, but I haven't because again, I think I'm in my own way of I'm 40 plus years old. If I start talking to people saying, hey, I'm trying, can I join your writing group and share this? Yes.

[Patrick]

The answer is yes. Patrick.

[Flo Esho]

Old person trying to talk. And so I saw old.

[Patrick]

You're not too old.

[Morgan Debon]

I think Ava DuVernay was like 40.

[Patrick]

Years old when she first started writing or film. Like, you are not too old. I don't know what rule is, like, after, after 40, I can't do anything new. Who said that?

[Flo Esho]

I know, but it just, I think, like I said, I'm in my own way because I know that age is rel. It's not even a thing. But in my. There's a blocker that's like, well, Patrick, if you start saying, hey, people immediately think, oh, well, this person is having this midlife crisis or why are they trying to do this?

[Patrick]

Now, who do you know that had a midlife crisis?

[Flo Esho]

No one personally, but I, you know, what you read, maybe that's like you're.

[Patrick]

I feel like there's something somewhere in your, in your world that is getting you attached to this. Like, I don't want to be perceived as having a midlife crisis because I am doing what I want.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. Now, see, who are we?

[Patrick]

Who's perceiving us? Like, let's say you were having a midlife crisis. Who cares?

[Flo Esho]

Sure. I think I, well, I, there's a part of me that cares a little bit. Even though it's like, I, I, I got to a place and I, and I will say Morgan, 20. The pandemic, of course, changed a lot of people. But that was kind of the year I kind of did a reset on myself because prior to 2020, I was sued and tie every day, student and booted. I believed it was corporate Patrick. Corporate Patrick. Corporate Patrick. Then 2020 happened. I, like so many others, ended up getting laid off and had to kind of reset My expectations and who I was and what I wanted to do. So I found my way into the tech world, which, as we know it's one. It's very. It can be very lucrative because I did join a company that was at the precipice of going public. And then I was able to kind of look at, you know, I feel comfortable wearing jeans and a T shirt or what does it matter if I have on? It sort of changed my thinking.

[Patrick]

Yeah, totally.

[Flo Esho]

But there's still parts. Even five years later, the corporate tries to sneak into my head, like, what are you doing, Patrick? Why do you want to write these screenplays? Why are you trying to do this? You're this guy.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Flo Esho]

You are the suit guy. The suit guy. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

The suit guy is not in a writer's room, but the suit guy can be in the writer's room. You know, and I think I.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes, Patrick, the suit guy could be.

[Patrick]

In the writer's room.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes.

[Flo Esho]

Yes.

[Patrick]

This is a strong yes. Here's the thing. Like, you have a lot in your mind. I can tell that you're someone who is constant. Like, you are a thinker. Like, you are someone who's very thoughtful, helpful. And I think that for you to move forward in a way where you're not second guessing yourself, you're going to have to practice, like, doing things that feel outside of how you perceive where you should be at this point in your life or what you should be doing at this point in your life. So, like, I actually want you to go and join something like, really fun and silly, like an improv group or like go do something out of the ordinary. That suit Patrick would be like, what the hell is this guy doing over here? He is so unserious.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's funny.

[Patrick]

Roller skating something. You're in Atlanta, let's go roller skating. Let's go do like, what did you do when you were in college? Like, what were you doing when you were having fun?

[Flo Esho]

Oh, my. Oh my gosh. I'm working. I don't know if I can tell. I. I lived in college. I had a great time, but I.

[Morgan Debon]

Lived in college too.

[Patrick]

I was twerking all the walls just like everybody else.

[Flo Esho]

You traveled, you know, going on just spontaneous road trips, just hanging out with your friends and it was just going to the skating rink was something that we did a lot. It was just. That was a time again.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Flo Esho]

Not to no discredit to any anyone else's era, but the 90s, you just. It was just a different vibe. In the 90s with stuff. So, I mean, I. I had a great time.

[Patrick]

Yeah. I think, Patrick, you're in Atlanta. You're in Roller Skate Kingdom. Okay? So I think you grab a couple friends. You gotta grab friends because you need to bring out other people who are perceiving you. And you guys go and you just go and have fun and be silly and just like, just enjoy yourselves.

[Flo Esho]

That can be a summer goal because the weather's starting to get nice and I. And it's funny, Morgan, I swear to you. I was just at the park the other day and I saw some people rollerblading and I said, God, I remember when I first moved to Atlanta, I used to rollerblade at Piedmont Fire. Why did I stop? And then I was like, oh, I know why I stopped.

[Patrick]

I'm like, serious suit man.

[Flo Esho]

I literally gave all of that stuff up.

[Patrick]

Yeah. I think it's okay for us to go through different seasons of life, and that might have been what you needed to do to survive in the corporate world and to completely transform into what you thought would be acceptable in that world. And you did it. You made it through. Now I think that you're in a place where you're going to spend more time being yourself. In semi retirement. You've got another. I mean, you could live till 50, not 50. You could live to 100, not 50. You could live To 100. Like, with the technology and all of the wellness things and everything that's being advanced in medicine, you could. You may not even be at midlife. You may have 10 more years before you're really midlife. So this idea of midlife is antiquated because technology and everything has changed so much. So you might have more than half of your life still to live. And the quality of life is going to be significantly different than it was for our parents and. And our grandparents, where, I don't know about you, my grandma lived to like, 80, 88. And the last 10 years were rough. My parents are probably going to live past that, and maybe their last five years will be rough, which means we're going to live past that and maybe our last three years will be rough. Right. So you got to assume that as with anything in the world, things improve and evolve and technology adjusts. And therefore our concept of what is real is compared to, like, old structures that have changed already. Right. So you're not midlife. Okay. You're not in a suit. Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

I kind of want to challenge you.

[Patrick]

To even go roller skating in a suit. Like, completely break your entire mindset wear a tie.

[Morgan Debon]

But like, you just have to practice.

[Patrick]

Really doing what makes you happy and brings you joy because you're closer to semi retirement than I think you might realize.

[Flo Esho]

Wow.

[Patrick]

So I'm excited for you, Patrick. Send me a photo on Instagram when you do this, please.

[Flo Esho]

It's challenge accepted. Like, I, I mean, the fact that you just said it and the fact that I was just at the park and I saw people and I was like, man, I remember when I used to do that. And. But then again, like I said, corporate Patrick did was like, oh, but that was when I was younger when I did that. Yeah.

[Patrick]

So I think you can make it happen. So I look forward to you getting to your number and, and realizing how close you are. And I look forward to seeing a photo that you DM me of you just living your best life on some roller skates or rollerblades.

[Flo Esho]

Challenge accepted. I mean, because I love the challenge and I love the fact that you're. I mean, it's, it's. It makes sense. It totally makes sense, Morgan. Like again, and the fact that I never thought about the number. I just thought about. I knew that I had the plan, but I didn't know what that number would look like. Like, that totally is also a challenge for me because it makes me think I got. I gotta do this. And that makes it even more real when I can actually solidify what is that number, what does that.

[Patrick]

And there's calculators, there's different types.

[Morgan Debon]

There's a calculator called Coast Fire.

[Patrick]

So coast, like you're coasting. And basically you input your current assets, the interest rates that things are kind of compounding at with, you know, the S P500, if you just have it in a standard investment portfolio. And it will help calculate that number for you as well. So it'll tell you based off of. First, you have to decide how much you want to spend once you're in retirement. Like, I'm going to spend a hundred thousand dollars a year or $200,000 a year, $75,000 a year because I don't have the mortgage anymore, whatever the number is. But once you make that that number, you enter it into this calculator with your current assets and it'll tell you, great, you only have to work for X amount more years to be able to coast.

[Flo Esho]

I am again, not a challenge accepted, but a task accepted.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I'm excited for you.

[Flo Esho]

As soon as it's in to get that information, to put it in my journal because I keep everything in My sort of journal outlook of life in all things.

[Patrick]

So good. Was there anything else on your mind.

[Morgan Debon]

Today that you wanted to talk through?

[Flo Esho]

I guess so, Morgan. I mean and this is so this is not BS like you've. You've kind of challenged me to think it stuff differently which I like. But then it's a part of me is like, oh, how. How could this happen in a matter of a couple minutes she challenges me to think about this thing which I hadn't even had been stored away. But when it comes to the. And I say this because I'm a Gemini, I think I do a very good job at sort of masking like wearing the mask of this is. I'm still very straight and narrow type of thing when. Because I'm like, you're a certain age, you're supposed to be this way. And I think that me writing is my escape. But what if I. Because I've thought about this, like maybe the self publishing scares me too. But like how. How do I talk about it to other people that I'm like, as far as getting people's feedback, like reading a chapter from a book or something to find out, does this make sense? Does this not make sense? Is this guy just. Yeah, stop. What I'm saying is just stop.

[Patrick]

My recommendation for you is that I think it would be best for you to find a retreat that you can go to for like a week or an extended weekend. There's plenty of writers retreats and so many different parts of the world depending on the type of content that you're writing. And the reason why I want you to do a retreat is because it's already like pre designated safe space. It's already got a lot of structure in it. And so, you know, everybody in there has already opted into hearing everybody else's work and providing feedback and you get a chance to provide your expertise as well. So that's probably how I would do it if I were you. It's like just go find a writer's retreat and go.

[Flo Esho]

I mean it sounds so simple. Why did I not just you could do this.

[Patrick]

Yeah. That's why people have advisors and that's. I mean that is why people have advisors. I have an executive coach because there's things that I'll say and I'm just like, why have I never thought of that? Like, why have I not thought of that before?

[Morgan Debon]

And it's just sometimes helpful to talk.

[Patrick]

To someone else who for a living helps other people solve problems.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah, well, that's something I am gonna do. I'M gonna. Because, I mean, again, they pop up on your social media, and I was just like, oh. I was like, would I do that? And I was like, no, I wouldn't want to do that. But all of these. It's like, literally, you're affirming all these things, and I'm like, what is stopping me from doing this? I'm. I do joke and say I'm 100 years old or almost 100 years old, but.

[Patrick]

33 years old. Like, max.

[Flo Esho]

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I'm older, but I will take that number. I appreciate that.

[Patrick]

Yeah, whatever. I don't even know how old you're. It doesn't matter because you're not old.

[Flo Esho]

Thank you. I mean. But, yeah, I. I mean, I will do that. The writer's retreat, coast life, the rollerblading. I know I'm gonna do it just because I believe if you hear it a second time, it's. It's destined to. You have to do it. But again, that. And just being on that number. I mean, Morgan, I'm so embarrassed that I never thought what the number was. And, well, one. No one's ever asked me what the number.

[Morgan Debon]

But we just don't live in a.

[Patrick]

Society that talks about we. We have this imaginary we're gonna retire. Like, everyone knows at some point you retire, but it's not like a part of our dialogue. It's not like there's no structure to how to think about retirement. And we live such a structured life when it's like, graduate from high school, go to college, get a good job. There's benchmarks of salaries. You can Google, well, how much salary should I be making? I mean, there's all these structures of.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, a process that we're supposed to.

[Patrick]

Follow and rules of all these things that are supposed to happen. But towards the end, there's no guardrails on how you finish. There's no guardrails on, like, what does the best second era for me look like? And, you know, I mean, that's one of the reasons I wrote this book, frankly, is because I felt like I had to develop my own systems of how to make decisions so that I would not.

[Morgan Debon]

Wouldn't get stuck.

[Patrick]

So I knew clearly where we were going, where I was going, and where I was leading myself and my team so that I didn't just stick with the momentum and then look up and say, I don't even like it here anymore. Why am I doing this? You know? So, yeah, it's something I think a lot of people hopefully will be able to even just hearing this episode. Are listening to this episode now and are saying, yeah, I do have not.

[Morgan Debon]

Don't have a number.

[Patrick]

Okay, let me go ahead and build out my number and see where it's at. See where I'm at.

[Flo Esho]

I'm legit building out my number this weekend. Like that is. That's so top of mind for me. Like it's in my brain now to think what is that number? And I want to write out like some. You've challenged me too to think about besides the Barcelona, what are really what are the other things that I want to do? Is something and I need to actually land on a financial advisor because that's something I have in my book on my journal book. I get a financial advisor because I have money just like sitting and that's one thing too. Like I need to do something. But then there's that fear like oh my God, I don't wanna. But those are some things I don't.

[Patrick]

Know that you need a financial advisor to invest in the stock market.

[Flo Esho]

You don't?

[Patrick]

No. I mean you could just invest in the S P500 like when they, when you do the research and you look at like people who trade stocks and people who select individual stocks versus the 5s P500. Just investing in the S&P 500 and doing dollars cost averaging. Which means like every month it's just the same. You put the same amount regardless of the price. The results are like trivial difference. The problem with a financial advisor is that they take a fee.

[Flo Esho]

They're going to take a fee so.

[Patrick]

You know that that takes out of your return when they're not necessarily beating the market as much as their fee is. So you know, it's something, it's something to consider. You know, my friend who I look at, there's a couple people who I suggest just reading or listening to their podcast. Vivian too, she has a lot of information on. On investing as well as Tiffany the budget. Nista does great on budgeting and kind of coming up with a plan financially and then trade and travel. Terry, my friend Terry, she talks about investing for income. So that's super helpful.

[Flo Esho]

I mean Morgan, you've wine. I just. Thank you. First of all, because of the fact that you've given me these gems and things that one. I'm almost embarrassed that I didn't like have. Have some of these things figured out because I should I again, I feel like at this age I should have some of those things figured out versus it's oh well I have the money just sitting here in the savings account like I should be selling.

[Patrick]

Just go put that money to work, baby. Yeah, we'll put that money to work. And the coast buyer will tell you, you know, if you're. If you're putting that money to work, work. This is the return. This is how much faster you can retire. So it just gives you the motivation to take the action.

[Flo Esho]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Cool.

[Flo Esho]

I appreciate it.

[Patrick]

All right, Patrick. Well, I look forward. I look forward to checking in with you in a few months and seeing how things are going.

[Morgan Debon]

Thanks for listening to the Journey podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review and head to our Instagram and YouTube to leave a comment. I look forward to hearing how this podcast is made an impact on your own Journey.