Live Coaching with Morgan: How to Prioritize Joy Without Sacrificing Success

Summary

The Journey with Morgan DeBaun Episode: Live Coaching with Morgan: How to Prioritize Joy Without Sacrificing Success
Release Date: February 11, 2025

Hosted by Morgan DeBaun, this episode features live coaching sessions with two remarkable guests: Mackenzie, a driven MD and MBA student juggling multiple passions, and Ben Collier II, an entrepreneur navigating the balance between corporate success and personal fulfillment. Morgan delves deep into their challenges, offering insightful strategies to prioritize joy without compromising success.

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1. Introduction

Morgan DeBaun opens the episode by setting the stage for live advising sessions aimed at helping high achievers find joy amidst their ambitious pursuits. She emphasizes the importance of creating space for personal happiness and highlights the significance of activities that bring intrinsic joy without the pressure of productivity or external validation.

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2. Live Advising Session with Mackenzie

a. Background

Mackenzie is an MD student simultaneously pursuing an MBA. In addition to her rigorous academic commitments, she is engaged in content creation focused on mental wellness and involved in research projects. Her multifaceted pursuits reflect her passion for both medicine and entrepreneurship.

b. Challenges

Mackenzie faces the daunting task of balancing her numerous ambitions. A significant setback occurred when she failed a crucial med school exam in August 2024, which led her to reevaluate her ability to manage her diverse responsibilities. This failure prompted her to question whether she could sustain her high level of ambition across multiple domains.

Notable Quote:
“I can't constantly split my focus as much as I think I can... that really made me step back and be like, can I really be doing all these things at once?” (04:10)

c. Guidance and Insights

Morgan introduces Mackenzie to her Six Pillars of Life: freedom, stability, wellness, passions, relationships, and money. She advises Mackenzie to concentrate on three pillars at a time, allowing the other three to maintain without intense focus. This strategy helps in managing priorities without feeling overwhelmed.

Notable Quotes:

• “You can really only be focusing on three things at once.” (05:40)
• “Wellness is probably should be your number three, because it's critical.” (07:08)

Morgan also recommends using the Eisenhower Matrix, a time management tool that categorizes tasks based on their urgency and importance. This helps Mackenzie allocate her time more effectively, ensuring that important but not urgent tasks, like exam preparation and mental wellness, receive the attention they deserve.

Additionally, Mackenzie explores ways to reintroduce joy into her life with minimal effort, such as participating in clinical shadowing or volunteering in child psychiatry, which aligns with her passion without overwhelming her schedule.

Notable Quote:
“It's just the act of doing it brings me joy.” (18:09)

d. Key Insights and Quotes

• Prioritization Over Perfection: Focusing on essential pillars allows for a more balanced life without the guilt of neglecting other areas.
• Scheduled Joy: Allocating specific times for joyful activities ensures they are integrated into daily life without resistance.
• Delegation: Sharing responsibilities, such as letting her fiancé handle wedding planning, alleviates some of her burdens.

Notable Quote:
“Everything you do that is tied to happiness does not have to be productive.” (00:52)

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3. Live Advising Session with Ben Collier II

a. Background

Ben Collier II is an entrepreneur and Morehouse alumnus who has recently launched a platform called We Rest on Sundays. This platform is dedicated to helping individuals navigate life's complexities through deep, meaningful conversations. Inspired by his own adversities—growing up with a drug-addicted mother and a father who was incarcerated—Ben aims to impact culture positively.

b. Challenges

Ben is at a crossroads with his platform. While he is eager to scale We Rest on Sundays, he grapples with deciding whether to monetize it or keep it as a passion project. Despite having a stable corporate career, investment properties, and a supportive family, Ben feels the pressure to grow his platform authentically without compromising his values.

Notable Quote:
“There is no driving thought that makes me feel like I need to make income from it... my burning desire is I'm really just focused on growing, scaling Impact outreach.” (36:44)

Another challenge Ben faces is the internalized need to maximize productivity in every aspect of his life, leading to burnout and diminished joy in activities meant for relaxation.

Notable Quote:
“Hobby feels so safe to me and hobby feels in reality, like lazy to me.” (38:12)

c. Guidance and Insights

Morgan suggests reframing Ben’s platform as philanthropy or social impact rather than a for-profit venture. This shift in perspective can alleviate the pressure to monetize and allow Ben to focus on the intrinsic value of his work.

Notable Quotes:

• “Let's call it your social impact.” (39:08)
• “Don't have to do it every day... you don't have to do it every day.” (39:42)

Morgan also advises Ben to consider the intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation dilemma. By emphasizing social impact over revenue, Ben can maintain authenticity and joy in his endeavors.

Furthermore, Morgan introduces the concept of hiring an executive coach to help Ben navigate the scaling of his platform without succumbing to the pressures of continuous productivity.

Notable Quote:
“The key when you're hiring them is to make sure that either they're, like, classically trained executive coaches or they have, like, frameworks.” (55:35)

d. Key Insights and Quotes

• Philanthropic Reframing: Viewing his efforts as social impact allows for greater flexibility and lessens the burden of generating income.
• Balancing Achievement and Joy: Recognizing the need to engage in activities solely for pleasure without an agenda enhances overall well-being.
• Support Systems: Leveraging mentors, advisors, and executive coaches can provide the necessary guidance without overextending oneself.

Notable Quote:
“You need something that's like... play. Because everything else, you got a structured system for everything.” (49:04)

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4. Conclusions and Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Morgan DeBaun provides actionable strategies for high achievers like Mackenzie and Ben to prioritize joy without sacrificing their goals. Key takeaways include:

• Prioritize with Purpose: Focus on a select few life pillars at any given time to manage stress and maintain balance.
• Reframe Perspectives: Viewing passions and projects as social impact rather than for-profit ventures can preserve intrinsic joy.
• Implement Time Management Tools: Utilizing frameworks like the Eisenhower Matrix helps allocate time effectively and reduces overwhelm.
• Embrace Delegation and Support: Sharing responsibilities and seeking guidance from coaches can enhance productivity without burnout.
• Cultivate Low-Effort Joys: Engaging in simple, fulfilling activities can provide necessary breaks and sustain long-term happiness.

Final Notable Quote:
“Prioritizing joy is about making arrangements that serve your happiness without demanding every ounce of your productive energy.” (General thematic summary)

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for listeners striving to balance ambition with personal fulfillment, offering practical advice and inspiring insights to navigate their unique journeys.

Transcript

[Morgan Debon]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Journey Podcast. Today we're doing some live advising sessions. I've got two incredible people with me today. We're going to talk through how to find your joy, how to find your tiny joy. When you're a high achiever and you're incredibly ambitious, it can be really hard to just slow down and say, but am I enjoying this journey along the way? So we're going to talk through two different examples today, and I really want you to think through this episode for yourself. How can you make sure that you are creating space for your own happiness along the way? And everything you do that is tied to happiness does not have to be productive at every single amount of time that you have during your day. It doesn't have to have an outcome of some sort of external validation, more money, or closer to your career goals. There's some time in your day that can just be for you, that can just be for fun, that can just be to make you smile. And we're going to get into that in today's episode. So I hope you guys enjoy it. Make sure you're pre ordering my book. Rewrite your rules, because all these frameworks, all these tools that we're talking about during these episodes are in my book, and I really want to make sure that you have it in your hands. It comes out April 1st, and I really look forward to seeing all the transformations and tiny joys that you find in your life. Hey, everyone. I'm Morgan debon, a passionate entrepreneur and life advisor. With the Journey podcast, you'll discover that success isn't about the destination. It's about the journey. I'm sharing stories of amazing people who've taken control of their lives. Join me, me on my own journey to discover the secret sauce behind reaching success. With permission from no one else. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Journey Podcast. I'm here today with Mackenzie. We are going to do a live advising episode. I hope you guys are enjoying this series. To promote my new book, rewrite your rules. I think that today's discussion is going to be so interesting. Mackenzie, you have so much going on and you are incredibly talented, incredibly accomplished, but you have some choices and decisions to make, so let's get into it.

[Mackenzie]

Awesome. Sounds great.

[Morgan Debon]

So maybe just walk me through what made you decide to sign up for this. Like, what are you hoping to accomplish today?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I feel like I have a lot of ambitions that I'm trying to juggle, and I'm trying to figure out how to make them work synergistically. With what I want out of life. Like, I have. I'm an MD student, but I'm also getting an MBA at the same time. I also do content creation, and then I also do research. And so it's like, how do I balance all these things I'm passionate about? But. But at the end of the day, want to make sure that my life reflects what I would like.

[Morgan Debon]

That's right. So what is your end goal? Tell me. Like, in three years from now. We're sitting, we're having coffee. We're in the central west end. We're living life, having some sushi. Sushi and coffee don't really go together. So maybe sake and sushi, and you're like, life is good, Morgan. We made it through. What does that mean? What does that look like for you?

[Mackenzie]

I would say I'd be in a psychiatry residency. I would have my content creation for mental wellness content, like, on a lock, like, with someone that I collaborate with so I don't have to, like, do so much of the nitty gritty stuff. And then I think I would also ideally be done with the research projects that I have currently. And so I can focus fully on getting my MD and then hopefully starting practice in the future, but residencies first, so.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes. And is that the end goal, is that you want to open up your own practice?

[Mackenzie]

Yes, I want to start a practice, a child psychiatry practice for children of color who have trauma in that space.

[Morgan Debon]

Well, there's a lot of kids that need that, definitely, unfortunately. So then tell me what you're struggling with. I mean, it seems like you have a pretty straightforward plan. What are the decisions or choices that you're trying to decide between?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I think I've really been. Recently has come to my attention that I can't constantly split my. My focus as much as I think I can, because I think there's a really big med school exam that everyone takes. And then I was like, I'm so ready for this. I can do this at the same time as my MBA studies. And then I didn't pass. And that was like, a huge blow to, like, all the things that I feel like I normally view about myself. And so that really made me, like, step back and be like, can you really be doing all these things at once? And, like, what is the best way to go about getting your goals? I'm going to have to give somewhere. So that's. Yeah, that was humbling.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. Sometimes those setbacks can say, oh, is this the right. Did I do the right thing? And how do I need to readjust. I mean, I think that happens in everybody's lives. The question is, do you adjust? Right. Is it enough of a wake up call to say, okay, I need to change some things? So what are the things since that happened? When did that happen? Last spring?

[Mackenzie]

That happened in about August of 2024.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. So we're six months out. So since that happened, what have you changed already?

[Mackenzie]

So I took a break from studying for that exam. I have it scheduled to take in June of 2025. And then I'm finishing out my MBA curriculum, and I make sure that this semester is not as intensive so that I can have time to actually study in between. And then I still haven't figured out what I'm going to do with the content piece. I feel like I'm trying to focus on making sure I can get the credentials that I need so that I can create the way that I want to. So it's taken more of a backseat, although I wish I could still interact with it.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. So there's these six pillars that I think about when I think about my life. And this is in the book as well. And the six different ones are freedom, stability, wellness, passions, relationships, and money.

[Mackenzie]

Fair.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. And my perspective is that you can really only be focusing on three things at once. And the other three, it's not that you don't worry about them, but they're in maintenance mode.

[Mackenzie]

Right?

[Morgan Debon]

Right. Like they're still happening. If you get to them, that's great. But you're not prioritizing them. You're not putting a lot of effort and you're not judging yourself if they don't grow or things drop, you know, balls drop. You're just like, it is what it is. Okay. The three for you, it sounds like, are stability, money, because you need to finish. You need to make some money, honey. Okay. You got a lot of school going on. Okay. And it sounds like freedom's probably not the other one, but you also sounds like you really want your passions to be in your three, but it's falling behind. What else is going on? How are your relationships? How's your wellness going?

[Mackenzie]

I would say lucky that I got engaged last April. So I'm happy that planning. I'm letting my fiance plan a lot of the wedding. I think that was one thing I was like. I would say yes and no, and you can go ham with what you enjoy. So that's going well. I would say that my mental health really took a nosedive after that setback, which is fair. And so it's been something that, I mean, I make mental health content because I think it's been like a continuous struggle. And so that's something I do when it. It's improved right now. And so I just don't want it to, like, go back down.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Mackenzie]

In the process of pursuing the exam and making sure I pass.

[Morgan Debon]

So wellness is probably should be your number three, because it's critical. If wellness drops, then everything one and two also drop. Right. Although getting married and becoming a wife is a big transition. Congratulations. You know, I'm engaged as well, so I'm also in that. That state of life.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And I imagine that will also continue to be very close. Number three, right? Yes, very close. And I'm sure it ebb and flowed while you were dating and going through all different types of stuff. So my question for you is when you're looking at your schedule, if I were to look at your calendar today and look at your Google Calendar or Outlook, and I said, okay, let me see which ones are her priority pillars, would your calendar reflect those three?

[Mackenzie]

No, that's a good question. I would say that my calendar probably reflects me completing my MBA studies more than anything right now. I should have time that's scheduled in. That's specific for studying for this exam. And I don't. I think I study when I have time, and I think that might be part of the issue. I do have, like, wellness blocks scheduled for, like, appointments and things like that. But, yeah, that's a good point. Scheduling out time specific for the exam, so it can be concrete.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, I mean, I find that most people, we have really great goals. We have. We know, like, what the end goal is. That's very clear. Like, you're very clear. I have to do this, this, and this to get to here. But then when we look at how we're behaving, we're reactionary. If I have time, I know what I will do with this free time that I have. But if it's a true goal and something that is very important, then the time needs to be proactive. You need to anticipate time that is dedicated to accomplishing your goal. And I think given how many things you have going on and probably so many inputs, I mean, even graduating from mba, Right. Like, there's all these trips and conversations and I mean, it's just a very social activity. It's not like a. It's not like med school at all. Right. So there's a lot probably that goes into graduation and just a lot of requests for your time and Making sure that you schedule and block and protect that time on your calendar to really focus on exam prep is important. Have you heard of the Eisenhower matrix before?

[Mackenzie]

I have not.

[Morgan Debon]

So the Eisenhower matrix is a framework made by, I guess, a guy named Eisenhower. I'm not actually sure. I should probably look it up, but I use it all the time. So it's a quadrant which is important, not important, urgent, not urgent. So a lot of people spend their time in urgent and important. Right. So, like, you have a doctor's appointment, you gotta go. It's urgent and it's important. You have an exam. Urgent, important. You have to make a decision about invitations that go out for the wedding and the guest list. Urgent, important. Right. Like, most people spend their time in urgent and important. What we need to be making more time for is important, not urgent.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Studying for your exam is important. It's not urgent because it's not tomorrow. Right. Taking care of your mental wellness and making sure that you have time so that you can stay balanced and stay stable. Important, not always urgent.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. So how do you think you can make some more time for yourself in the important and not urgent category?

[Mackenzie]

I think that there's a lot of idle time that I spend thinking about what I should do. Like, I'm very much. I'm a to do list type of person. And, like, I spend a lot of time. I feel like, what is next that I can conquer on my to do list? And I think if I just kind of had it already scheduled in, I would probably gain back at least two hours of my time.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Which is a good chunk of time to devote to studying every day. If that's like an everyday occurrence.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, I mean, that's significant. I mean, that would change a lot. Right. And then you don't feel guilty if you don't, like, if you didn't get to it that week because you're like, well, I know I got to it because I had this time protected. What are the things that you delegate? So I heard you say that you delegated most of the planning and big decisions to your fiance. That's so smart. I think that was a great step. What else do you delegate?

[Mackenzie]

I feel like I do a lot of stuff myself besides that. So I think that that's an area where, like, for instance, for all the content stuff that I do, I'm the one who's editing it, I'm the one who's shooting it, and the one who's doing all of the content planning. So that's why it's kind of fallen to the wayside and same thing with like exam prep. I've not. I don't have like a tutor. That's specific. I like have a self study program, I guess. So. Yeah, that could be a spot to do things.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. Are you making money from the content creation?

[Mackenzie]

I was when I was doing a lot of content, but because I stopped doing it then I don't have as much so. But I was making enough to support myself for a while, but.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, really?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

So like at max, about how much was that?

[Mackenzie]

I think like the biggest year was like 30k.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, wow.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

That's impressive. That's really good. And how much volume of content do you need to create in order to get back up to that type of a level?

[Mackenzie]

I think it's partnership maintenance. And so like one of my biggest partnerships, I think they rolled back in terms of their budgeting right now and so like that was like a big spot. So I would say I'd probably have to do three major projects a month probably to reach that spot in my current work. Yeah, that's a lot of work.

[Morgan Debon]

So I think that it's probably time for content creation to just be on maintenance mode until June.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. Because at the end of the day, these exams are really important and you've put a lot of time and effort and invested a lot. I mean, you've sacrificed a lot to get where you are and that is incredibly important. Incredibly important. Content creation is always going to be there. It's a. Right now it's passion. I think at one point it was money. Right. Like when I think about the pillars, like right now it's passion, but previously it was money. So it's, it bumped up, but right now it's not at a steady state. It's not just making money while you sleep. Right. It's not like, okay, I'm just, I have ads on this or you know, I'm getting affiliate links from Amazon. Right. Like if, if you were to tell me, yeah, I make like a thousand dollars a month and I don't really have to touch it because of all these other things, I'd be like, okay, great, like maybe let's do a little bit more. Make an extra 500 and then we can hire somebody to help us create our beer tutorial. Right. Like, but that's actually not the case here. So it's a passion. You're going to let it go for a second? Yeah, it can go all the way down to zero.

[Mackenzie]

That's where it's been. So that's why I'm going to keep it for right now.

[Morgan Debon]

It seems like you feel a little guilty around it or it feels like you don't feel settled in that decision. Why is that?

[Mackenzie]

I would say because I feel like I have a lot of ideas with regards to how I can help people with the content. And so like, that's something that like, fuels me when I'm not in a medical space. So like in the MBA right now I feel like I'm lacking a lot of the direct, like, oh, I'm helping a patient in a psychiatry sense. And so like, I miss a lot of that because of like all my studies are mostly business studies. So I think like, that's the only way I feel like I can connect with it. So maybe that's why I feel like I really miss like the direct connection with like mental health communities in that space.

[Morgan Debon]

So it was fueling you. It was giving you something to look forward to. It was a moment of joy that you were like, I like this interaction and it intrinsically motivated you basically.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. I think that's awesome. So how else can we have that level of joy without that level of effort?

[Mackenzie]

Good point. I think what I've been doing is I've been like working in mental health research and so then when I interact with individuals in that space, it feels a little bit more fulfilling because I'm getting things done. But that's also like a lot of work. So I'm wondering if I can probably.

[Morgan Debon]

That's max effort. We need minimum effort.

[Mackenzie]

You're right. That's fair. Overachiever speaking. So I feel like maybe trying to see if I can get into some more clinical spaces in like a shadowing space where it's like I can very easily do that and be like, oh, focus on this patient for the day. And I have like a one or two hour period in clinic where I could be with an attending and enjoy that time. So I can like have the cup filled, so to speak.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes. And I love that. I think it's good to have that basically overlap with like, it's helping you push forward. You have to do some of this work anyways for your requirements and it brings you joy. You also could just volunteer.

[Mackenzie]

That's true.

[Morgan Debon]

Like not everything has to be on a ladder to support your career. It could just be for fun, could be just that simple. There's so many people who would love to have you kids in the foster care system. You know, kids who are going through, I mean, you, juvenile detention center and go in once a month. I mean, there's just so many organizations in St. Louis that you could be like, hey, these are my credentials. I got, like, three hours a month.

[Mackenzie]

That's a really good point. That is something that, Yeah. I feel like would film. Like, I really enjoy, like, the interacting specifically with, like, pediatric populations, because that's what I'm interested in. But. Right.

[Morgan Debon]

Versus doing the. You know, when you add all this other stuff and you have to do all the other stuff.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

When really you just want to. You just want to, like, help someone.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, and that's great. I mean, there's no judgment or shame or, like, there's no. Okay, well, everything I do has to be productive or everything I do has to have a lens of, like, getting me to my end goal. No, that's not. No, you don't have to do that.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

That's a paradigm shifter. That's. That's really interesting, because I feel like I'm like, oh, everything has to fit into this. And that's probably why it feels so, like, oh, it's. It's toppling. Because it's not possible to do that.

[Morgan Debon]

It's not possible. And that's okay. And everything. I think the other thing, Mackenzie, for you is, like, things can be temporary. It's not forever. Right. So you could say, you know what? I'm going to volunteer for six months, and then I'm done with it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, actually being willing to be. Just be finished with it. Like, it got me through this season. It brought me some joy that was in my control. That only serves me. That makes me happy. It's not for my fiance. It's not for my degrees. It's not for my future business. It's not to make money. It's literally just because it makes me happy. And that's what I do.

[Mackenzie]

Temporary is.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, good.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. I feel like. I think a lot about, like. Like, delayed gratification. Like, especially medicine. You're like, oh, that'll keep me going. So everything I do now is for later.

[Ben Collier II]

So.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that's a really good point.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. These are called tiny joys. So for me, it's super simple stuff, like painting. You know, it's like, if I can just paint for 30 minutes even, sometimes I'll be. I. Like, I have a whole art studio in my backyard, and sometimes I'm like, I don't even go in there because I'm like, it's too intimidating. I need to be able to make something really quick. Like, I'll literally Just sit here and at the kitchen table with my son while he's playing or something and just grab the pastels and make something simple just so that I have just a moment of something that's just for me. I don't even have to finish the painting. I don't have to finish the piece of art. It's just the act of doing it brings me joy.

[Mackenzie]

I see. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

It's like riding a bike. So fun. Just for fun. Playing video games just for fun. Like no end outcome, no prize. Just for fun. What other things did you do growing up that were just for fun?

[Mackenzie]

I did singing and lots of performance arts. That was like my thing.

[Morgan Debon]

Like theater or like choir?

[Mackenzie]

Both. But I was like in like college. It was like very much acapella, like super.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, vibes.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You were in a group?

[Mackenzie]

I was, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh my gosh. So what happened?

[Mackenzie]

So, I mean, I graduated from college and so then they're still here, but my schedule doesn't allow me because I think it's like six hours a week of rehearsal.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, they're very intense.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

But how else might you be able to incorporate singing back into your life?

[Mackenzie]

I try to kind of like turn my apartment into a concert whenever no one's home. But I think that that's something that I've been missing doing. I do miss like singing a lot. Like I teach K pop dance class.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, how fun.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, There you go. So that's. That's something I really enjoy doing at once a week. That does.

[Morgan Debon]

That's great. Yeah, that's a great tiny joy. I think you already know what you need to do, but for your mental. I think there's definitely some other things you could add into your life that are low effort, high joy. Low effort.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that's the key. High joy, low effort, low effort because he.

[Morgan Debon]

Low effort. Okay. Because you're on a really long journey. Like just like you said, you graduate and then there's a whole nother two year and, and, and it just keeps going. So you have to figure out how to find balance and stability and feel like you are a full human and not just someone who is constantly achieving for this next milestone.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that is very true. I think like background wise and like the way things have gone, that makes a lot of sense.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. It's going to be hard because it's to your point because how you got here required this delayed gratification of like, okay, I'm going to be premed and so I'm going to these things and I'm going To study while everybody else is out partying because I need to get these grades. And then I'm gonna get my MBA so that I know how to start a business, and I'm gonna do it at the same time because I'm a badass. And then I'm gonna keep going, and I'm gonna get engaged, and then we're gonna have babies. And then, and then, and then, and then. And then you look up in 10 years and you're like, I actually don't even want to be a doctor anymore.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that's, like, my worst fear. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Along the way.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that's the worst fear. I'm like. I feel like the transformation of medical student to resident is that, like, some people, like, lose their joy for, like, why they started. And, like, I do know I don't want to do that so much.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. I think medical school is really hard. And you probably know this about me, but those who are listening it might not know this. My brother is a doctor, and my father's a doctor, Both research doctors, which is a very particular type of ambition, as you know. And, of course, both incredibly talented. They can't be mediocre at anything. So I think what I've observed through them being in my life is they have both had to find ways that they can be happy and ways that they can do things. They, of course, get pleasure from serving others and, like, solving problems. But I think there's been a magical thing that specifically my father's been able to do where he has. He really mentors people. He really gives time to kids who have sickle cell disease. That's his specialty. But then he figures out ways to basically, like, do things, like summer camp for kids who have sickle cell disease. Like, when I grew up, they had a summer camp where every summer for. I think it was, like, three or four days, extended weekend. The kids would be able to go to summer camp, and all the nurses would be there and the nurse practitioners and stuff, because when you have sickle cell disease, it can be hard to do simple things like get in the pool and get out because of the temperature changes, and that could cause stress on your body. So the kids were able to have summer camp, arts and crafts and, you know, all the fun stuff. Go swimming. And that was a way for him to have a tiny joy.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And I think that everyone should feel empowered to figure out how to make their life work for them.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, this is true. I think I keep saying, like, oh, I can enjoy it later. I can enjoy it later. But it's like, I would like to.

[Morgan Debon]

Enjoy it now, now, now, you know, and, and same thing with this transition into marriage. How are you planning your honeymoon? How are you making time for that?

[Mackenzie]

I. I think we've decided a location that was like the first thing that we decided for in terms of honeymoon. And I think other individual, like, wedding stuff has just been like. I was like, I think that this would be great. We have like a spreadsheet. Anytime I have an idea, I, like, will type it in the spreadsheet. And then he is very kind and like very detail oriented. So he will, like, go and find things that match with what we're aligned with. So I'm very lucky in that sense. But I feel like at a certain point I will need to transition to having that be my muffle tension.

[Morgan Debon]

When is the wedding?

[Mackenzie]

It is May 2026.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. So we have some time. Thank God.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

I was like, please do not say 2025.

[Mackenzie]

No, no. We were like, I think that.

[Morgan Debon]

So after you graduate from medical school.

[Mackenzie]

Right. In between that and residency.

[Morgan Debon]

And is he also a academic?

[Mackenzie]

He is an economist. Yeah. So he's not in. He's not in medicine, but yeah, I.

[Morgan Debon]

Was specific with my question. I said academic.

[Mackenzie]

That's true.

[Morgan Debon]

That's true.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, that's. That's very fair.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. That's great though. I think it's good to have balance and for you guys to figure out how you want to negotiate with each other, you know, different seasons. There's going to be times in your life where you're the dominant person taking control. And there's times in life where, you know, he's, he's holding it down at home. So I think it's great that you've already established that kind of dynamic because a lot of people way too long.

[Mackenzie]

True. I think that that's something that we discussed a lot. I was like, I know that I have a lot of schooling to go through until I get to like, my career. And so, like, how do you want to do this in order to make sure that we have the same experience like that that's shared and like, it's agreed upon.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, that's good. Is there anything else that you wanted to talk through in our last few minutes together?

[Mackenzie]

I guess I'm curious if you have any sort of specifics with regards to. I think, like, the whole idea of like starting my own practice has been like a large part of why I feel like I want to craft like that custom experience for like kids that are in my office. But then Also I get worried about being able to balance that and like the clinical time. And so, like, I know that requires delegation and that requires like really building a team. Like a really have enjoyed that part of your podcast. And so I don't know if you have like ideas in terms of like, when you know it's time to bring in other people, that kind of thing.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. And have you worked in a private practice before?

[Mackenzie]

I have, and it was really not a great experience.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. It's a horrible experience.

[Mackenzie]

That was during my gap year and I honestly, that was. I was applying to medical school and I was working as a medical assistant. They love to have like pre med students do that. And I really did not vibe with like the ethos of the organization. I didn't. I actually ended up leaving because, like, there were a lot of ethical situations I was placed in and I was like, this is just not why I went into medicine. And it was. A lot of it was because of the way it was run. And I was like, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm making decisions about someone's health that are financially motivated on my end to try to make my bottom line work. I mean, I think at a certain point you have to decide that. But like, it was so noticeable and I was like, this is not how I want to practice medicine.

[Morgan Debon]

So I left. Yeah, I think that that's probably was a driving force in you saying, I want to do this differently. There's a different model that can exist. I think that being a clinician and also trying to be a good business owner, it's really hard. Most doctors that I talk to who make that transition to owning their own practice, they usually start off as a partner in somebody else's practice first for a prolonged period of time. There's also just a lot of cash involved with like the build outs and like setting up shop and all types of things. And I think it's a good idea to start somewhere else to learn the skills. I mean, it's no different than what I did. I started at a company when I first graduated from college, learned everything and then not everything, but learned them as much as I was willing to learn at that time and then moved on to start my own company. But it was critical that I learned on somebody else's dime first about operating. So I think there's probably a step in between you having your own practice for you to decide, do I actually want to take on the owner operator responsibilities? Is that going to distract or take away from the Joy that I have actually practicing and being a clinician, because once you become owner, operator, it's your responsibility to run the show. You have less time for probably doing some of the things that you actually get joy from. Based off of everything you said, I do think it's possible to find a practice that matches your culture and matches your principles in life. It's definitely possible. So my question to you would be, and you don't actually have to make this decision today. You have so much time. Really, the question you should be thinking through is like, do I want to own my own practice? Because I didn't like how other people did it, so I want to have full control.

[Mackenzie]

That's a great question. I do think that that's part of the reason why I felt that way. And so if I feel like, if I found like a hospital system or even like a practice group that I felt, like, seen and heard in decisions and also like in the way that they treated patients aligned with how I felt, then that would probably potentially change my mind.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. And so I think you should just have an abundance of, like, openness towards different ways you can accomplish your goal. I see a lot of people are attached to the how instead of the what. Like, I want this in this specific way, and I'm like, you don't actually need it in this specific way, but what you do care about is patients are treated with kindness. Every decision is not about the bottom line. And I have a voice here, and I am a part of the decision making group. Yeah, right. And so you just outline what's actually the principles that are important to you, and then go find seven different ways that you can make that happen. Don't get attached to. Let me start my own business. Because lord Jesus, please. McKenzie. A lot of work.

[Mackenzie]

You're not wrong. My entrepreneurship class, I'm like, I'm putting in work here. A lot of work. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. So if you don't enjoy the back end operations and administrative stuff, please believe health insurance and all types of stuff will take you down and it'll steal all your joy. So it's just something to consider. Again, you have plenty of time. So these aren't decisions you have to make today, but it's something you should be on the lookout for. Other opportunities and ways to accomplish your goals.

[Mackenzie]

Awesome. I think that's something to keep in mind. Like the fact that it's flexible. Like, the end goal is really just practicing and enjoying what I'm doing. Not necessarily the only known practice and making money. Yeah, Fair. Fair.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. So you don't want to just be an employee. You want to be an owner. But there's partnerships, and there's different ways to get that right. Right. Great. So I think we've covered a lot of ground together. So what are the things you're committed to?

[Mackenzie]

I am committed to taking this season at least until June, to schedule out time to make this exam pass, like, an enjoyable experience. It's passed, it's gone. And then I can do what I want to do. And then two. Also, like, really focus on how I can fill my own cup and a wellness space while also being a good partner for my fiance. So those are, like, the three things I'm focused on?

[Morgan Debon]

Yes. Important, not urgent. We're going to spend some more time here. Schedule it on your calendar, block it off, and more tiny Joyce.

[Mackenzie]

Yes, ma'am.

[Morgan Debon]

All right, I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for joining the journey today.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you so much.

[Morgan Debon]

You're welcome. Talk to you later. Hey, everybody, I've got Ben Collier II here today. We're gonna talk through some very interesting things. He's an entrepreneur. He's also a Morehouse man, and we've got a lot going on. You've got some decisions to make about how you're going to grow your revenue. So let's get into it. What is going on, Ben?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Awesome. Well, again, I want to thank you for having me on the platform. Super excited to be here with you. Very inspired by what you've been able to do and scaling your business and really just impacting our culture. It's been phenomenal. But as you mentioned, Ben Collier, I am still navigating a corporate career, but then also entrepreneur efforts that I'm pursuing right now as well. So I've created a new concept that I've wrestled with for well over a decade at this point. I've journaled for probably 17 years. And finally, as of, like, August of this year, I felt like God wasn't allowing me to sleep where it was like, you need to get this out. You need to create, lean more into your creative gene and figure out, you know, like, what direction you want to take this. Long story short, I've created a platform which is called We Rest on Sundays. And my primary goal and what I believe that my purpose is and what I think God brought me here on Earth to do is to help people navigate the complexities of the world and how that correlates to my life. I come from adversities. Born and raised in Wisconsin, Mother was a drug addict, father was in prison for about 15 years of my life. But I was fortunate enough and blessed to have two older sisters that still to this day are mentors and women I really, really look up to and really my guiding principles. And, you know, I found my way to Morehouse, study finance while there. You know, I've had a career in strategy consulting for quite some time now. I'm in the international space, and I've always been the friend that has spent time really helping people solve the challenges that they're currently working through. So this platform is really catered to that. I'm having deep, immense conversations with people that I think are a net positive on this world and individuals that I've either aspired to be and. Or individuals that have mentored me or peers that I feel like have navigated really exceptional careers and. Or may have faced adversities as well. So, you know, it's me, two cameras, two lights, microphones in a space, and a guest. And I am putting out, you know, episodes on this platform every single week. I'm putting out reels every week. And for me, I think it's. It is new. I rolled it out December 1st of last year. But I'm really just trying to figure out how to scale what. What I need to be focusing on. Is there anything that I'm missing, et cetera.

[Morgan Debon]

So tell me, from a revenue perspective, how do you make money today?

[Ben Collier II]

So from my business, I am currently. I'm just now about to dip my toe into, like, potential partnerships, but I'm being really safe and maybe comfortable. If I'm being honest with you, I do still have a pretty healthy salary in what I do in corporate America, so. And then we do also have, like, investment properties, and, you know, that's a different side business over here. My wife also is an orthodontist. That works. So we have that as well. So this is the piece where we rest on Sundays. I am not currently producing or bringing in income from that right now, but I have all of these safety nets over here to really scale it out, a way that feels authentic to myself, but I just want to make sure that that doesn't. The comfort of all these safety nets over here doesn't get in the way of me scaling this business.

[Morgan Debon]

And if someone offered you $100,000 tomorrow for your platform for revenue, what would they be buying from you?

[Ben Collier II]

They would be buying, honestly, the rights to all the episodes that I've already created and put out there. Depending on the structure of the contract, they'd potentially be buying, like, additional episodes Additional ideas, like I have a full, I have like a two year log of like what's next, the, you know, the platform, the guest already lined up of who I want to have on and how I want to focus on rolling it out. But really the package that, that they currently would buy would be my brand in reality.

[Morgan Debon]

Is there any other like media platforms? And really you're talking about a media platform, right? So you're, you'd want to sell the ip, sell the archives and that would be a one time buy. So how would you make money after they buy it?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, so there are a lot of different ventures that I'm potentially thinking through as well, including once I'm able to scale and build a larger social media presence, like I'm even considering like potential like merch. Right. So like cool shirts and branding and you know, being more involved in. I sit on a few boards here in Atlanta of like really plugging in the purpose of my purpose and the purpose of we rest on Sundays into ways where like I could potentially have strong partnerships with nonprofits here and maybe give X amount percentage away based off of sales.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Ben Collier II]

So they're, that's one area of revenue that I'm potentially considering. I just haven't rolled that out yet.

[Morgan Debon]

So I guess my question for you, Ben, is why does this need to be for profit? Like, not that it should be not for profit, but you don't necessarily need the income. So what's the driving thought in your mind that's causing you to say I need to make money from this?

[Ben Collier II]

So truth be told, there is no driving thought that makes me feel like I need to make income from it and reality. And that's the freedom that I currently have. I think my burning desire of where I'm getting stuck right now is I'm just gonna be fully transparent. I feel like I like corporate America. Like, boy, do I have that down. Like I'm, I'm really good in that space. I feel like I've had a lot of amazing opportunities and been paid well to like travel and do these things and consult. So I have that figured out. But now this whole social media presence and building this media company, I want to do it in a way that's truly authentic to myself. And again, my purpose, I'm not focused on the revenue generation piece right now. And like, honestly when your questions came up, I was like, those are really, really good questions. I'm dabbling in that space, you know, I think mentally. But the however is I'm really focused on like growing, scaling Impact outreach, like that's my goal right now. If it happens to produce revenue down the road, excellent. Like, great. Like that would be phenomenal. If I want to sell it down the road, excellent, great. But I don't think that's my primary goal right now.

[Morgan Debon]

I think that's okay. I guess my perspective is that's actually totally fine. You're very clear. And you don't need it for income. You have a lot of stability already, dual income household, and you have like stability as well. So I guess my question for you is like, why not just make this a hobby?

[Ben Collier II]

Hobby feels so safe to me and hobby feels in reality, like lazy to me, if I'm being honest with you. Like, I'm the type of person, if I'm going to do something, like, I'm going to do it and I'm going to go all in. I'm going to pursue it. And like a hobby for me is golf, Right. And I put golf down to focus on this. Right. So like there is not a day, there isn't a night that goes by where I am not touching my platform, where I am not making tweaks, changes, edits, you know, like, like everything is on me right now. So for me, I think it's, it is my purpose. It is, is so deeply rooted in my purpose. I can't align, I think the word hobby to, to my purpose and my passion and what I feel like I'm deemed to do to, to hopefully be a net positive impact on the culture, the community and other people.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. So then let's reframe it. Let's call it your social impact.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

In your portfolio of life, this is your social impact.

[Ben Collier II]

Love it.

[Morgan Debon]

You're a philanthropist with your time.

[Ben Collier II]

Love it. Yep. You love it. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And money, I'd imagine this is not. If there's no money coming in, you are donating.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And that's okay. And you can do that guilt free because it means something to you. I think that your biggest challenge is actually just giving yourself like the permission to say, like, cool. It's philanthropy. So if it's philanthropy, then you don't have to do it every day.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

If it's philanthropy, as long as you help people, you're winning.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

So how does that feel? What's going through your mind as we're talking through this?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Great follow up question. I think for me, like, I really like that idea and the concept. I think what I don't want to do is like give myself the break. Right and what I mean by the break is like you don't have to do it every day. And I think right now when I look at your platform, when I like many other people's platforms that I admire, sure, you have a team and all of the things which you've been able to scale multiple businesses, which has been phenomenal. But it also feels like to me like there is no break. Right. If I look at your social media platform and how you guys scaled and build and built your, what you've been able to produce, it feels like it's somebody or your team is just go, go, go, go, go. Right. And yeah, I think that's great. And I think that for me, if I want to grow and scale my impact and my outreach, I feel like the first minimum, like 18 months, like I have to go, I got to be disciplined. I need to be really fully into it and I feel like I do need to touch it every day. I'm not saying hours every day. Right. The platform, I hear you name is called we rest on Sunday. So like, yeah, rest on Sunday, but six days out of the week I'm. I gotta touch it.

[Morgan Debon]

I think this is a common fallacy that we all can fall into which is that what we see is what we believe is happening.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And when I tell you your girl does not work on this every day.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

She can't, she can't. You know what I'm saying? I got competing things for my time attention. Books, travel, child.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Marriage.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Plan a wedding, you know, So I think that this is normal for us to be. It's, it's basically confirmation bias because you believe you need to work every day, but are seeing everybody work every day. But if you also look deeper, you would also see the exact opposite, which is there's people who don't work every day that still have a lot of impact.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

That's intrinsic. I mean it's, it's just self affirming. Probably because you're so successful and because of how you had to get to where you are, the odds against you as a black man in this country, you were like, I gotta work hard. Yeah, I can't let up.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And then because I didn't let up, that's why I'm so successful. But I actually, it's probably not because you didn't let up. You're actually just really good at what you do, you know, and you're smart. So that's actually going to be your challenge, Ben. That's going to Be. My challenge for you is going to be how do you have maximum impact without maximum effort?

[Ben Collier II]

Yes. Yeah. Yes. I mean, you. You hit it on the head, right? Like in a short amount of time of, like, that's. I know that that's my Achilles heel. Right. Like, you know, like. And I think that that's. It's an area that I need to continue to work on because it's very easy for me to. I mean, I was out of the house today at 4:45 to go to the gym. Came back home, my wife was getting our son ready, got up, shower real quick, got half dressed, got my daughter out of bed, got her dressed for school. Yeah, you know, like all of the things. Right.

[Morgan Debon]

Manage discipline.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah. But I also need to, you know, I think I. Not, I don't want to say smoke and mirrors, but it's like you brought up a very, very valid point of like, everything that you see is not necessarily what's really going on behind the scenes. And I think that's a really, really healthy reminder for me.

[Morgan Debon]

So for myself, when I feel. Because there's times when I feel this way too, where I'm like, damn, Earn your leisure is really just out here. Like, I can't believe they go live every Monday night. Like looking at the stock market and doing this and doing this. And I'm like, damn, should I be going live for Monday night on a schedule? Like, you know, like, it gets to all of us, you know, shout out to earn your leisure for their consistency and making us keeping their foot on our necks. You know, I have to remind myself and I'm like, wait a minute, I have a company. Like, my day job is blavity.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

My day job is not earn your leisure. Like, my day job is not the journey. If the journey was my day job, I would absolutely have that level of intensity with them. Right. You have a day job, so you don't need to have two day jobs.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. So that's the other thing you can keep in mind is like, when you find yourself in those comparison moments or when you're like, I should be doing more, you got to remember your primary is your 9 to 5. Actually, this isn't your primary, so it's okay for it to be as such.

[Ben Collier II]

Yep. Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

Because I think this is your biggest, like, gap. And then the other thing I want to ask you is like, tell me about the things that bring you joy outside of this category. What else it makes you happy.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. For me, like, hanging out with my kids. Like, I think, you know, I gave you a little overview of my background and my upbringing, but, like, to be able to do a full 180 of like, what I. My early beginnings to where these kids are now and to see them. And one thing that I was like writing the other day is like, I knew there was love in my household, but there wasn't, like, affection. Right. And now I have these two little kids, Benjamin III and then my daughter Tatum, and they are by far the most affectionate little people that I've ever met in my entire life. And like, my love language is not physical touch, but I have no choice in dealing with these kids. So it's like, it forces me to continue to grow and get more comfortable being uncomfortable, you know? And yeah, it's something I think I'm like, really, really good at. I think that I'm good at being a father, good at spending time with these kids. I think that I'm a good husband as well. And I think, you know, that hanging out my wife and then, you know, hanging out my fraternity brothers as well. And I used to, you know, enjoy golf, but it felt like a time suck. I was playing golf with an entrepreneurial buddy here and some ex NFL guys. And I remember, like, halfway through the round, I looked around, I was like, these dudes can afford to be out here playing golf during the middle of the day. Like, I'm not there yet. Like, what am I doing? And I finished the round and then I literally put those clubs down. I'm like, I am not where I'm supposed to be. But again, I think I just need to work on being kinder to myself and just relaxing because I think I say that, but then it's like we go on any trip that we week, like, it's just a whole different, you know, like, we're fine. We're more than fine. And yeah, but. But those things.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, I think that a lot of high achievers feel that way. Right? Where it's like, man, you know, being away from my kids, being away from work, being away from my philanthropic efforts and golfing feels frivolous. Yeah, like, it feels frivolous. You know, it's like I could be doing something else with my time. This is not productive rest. It's not productive wellness. It's not an intense workout. Like, it's literally just guys being guys.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, that's it. That's it.

[Morgan Debon]

But Ben, you already know how this sounds.

[Ben Collier II]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. So. So I think one of your challenges is going to be. It's okay Just to exist and to just do stuff like read a fiction novel.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah, I'll put that down.

[Morgan Debon]

Read a fiction novel, play a video game, just. Cuz what other things did you like to do growing up?

[Ben Collier II]

I played some video games. Sports. Like, sports were huge for me, for sure. And I mean, like, I really. For me, what gets me out of my head and gets me to like. I do yoga, right? So, like, I'll go to yoga a few days a week. And that's like, therapeutic for a variety of reasons for me. Like, it has been life changing for me when I started maybe a decade ago now. And I'm like, yeah, I'm in the gym, but that. I'm not the guy that loves the gym, but I'm in the gym because I. I'm supposed to be in the gym. Right. Is how I feel. But yoga as well, and you know, as a kid, video games and sports and, you know, hanging out with friends. I am very social, so I really enjoy. I think my wife and I have a pretty good practice and discipline. I'm the guy, the friend that's sending the text Saturday morning, like, oh, we're gonna meet at, you know, this area where it's like a lot of, like, food options, drinks, etc. On, like, Saturday afternoon. So we'll have a sitter come and we'll get away and hang out and reconnect ourselves and go hang out with friends. I'm typically the person that's curating my friends together, so I do really, really enjoy that. And that's. I think that's an area that I haven't cheated myself on in. In trying to scale this. But I do think that I've cheated myself on a few friend areas where it's like, I might have a close friend or two where if they're not, like, disciplined in the season, I'm like, you got to go on the back burner. And like, that's not. That's one thing that I'm working on as well, because I'm like, that's not fair.

[Morgan Debon]

And can't project what you feel like you need to these other people.

[Ben Collier II]

You got it?

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Ben Collier II]

Yep. You got it.

[Morgan Debon]

I think that's fair. I. I also think, Ben, I want you to get like, a Nintendo Switch.

[Mackenzie]

Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

I'm serious.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

It's like, play.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Just play.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Because everything else, you got a structured system for everything. Okay. And even the social thing is still like a productivity thing in your mind because you're like, well, I'm spending quality time with My wife. And we're doing this and we're, you know, we're trying a new restaurant and like, it's all this goal oriented stuff.

[Ben Collier II]

Yep. Huh.

[Morgan Debon]

So you need something that's like. I mean, I guess a video game is goal oriented because you're gonna get to the next level or an award, but, like, it's just for you.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. It's a good challenge. It's a really good challenge in a space that I just need to think through more because I just don't. I don't.

[Morgan Debon]

You can play video games with your kids. I mean, you could. I don't know if you want to introduce them to video games, but, like, you know, I think there's different ways you can do it. But basically my point is this constant need to achieve this constant need for more, this constant need for everything to be a productive output to max out on every single thing you do is just unnecessary.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are saying all the things that I know internally.

[Morgan Debon]

And even you signing up for this. When you signed up for this, you were like, how do I grow? I feel like I've plateaued.

[Ben Collier II]

And I was reading.

[Morgan Debon]

I was like, I don't even think he needs to grow this. Why does he want to grow this? Let's talk about it.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And maybe a different season. You. You will. Like, this could be your retirement plan. Right. Like, you know, you could do this, I think, philanthropically allow you to basically say, like, okay, I'm donating my time. How much time or money per month am I donating to this?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Just like any other thing you would volunteer for a donate to.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. It's really good. And. And yeah, like. And maybe not feel this pressure because that's what I was really feeling. I was feeling like a pressure of. In comparison is the devil. Right. But like, you get stuck in. Or I'll speak for myself. I can get stuck in it from time to time. Not all the time. Typically, I'm like. Like, I don't care what they're doing over there. Like, I'm good over here. But I think with this, it's so new to me. And I've never leaned into my creative side. Like, you're having fun. Yeah. And it's okay. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. You got it.

[Morgan Debon]

That's great. Like, if I told you all the random things I've tried in life just because I'm like, this looks like fun.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, but what I've had to unlearn is Just because it's fun to me. Turn it into a business.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah. Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. There was a time during COVID where I. I got roller skates.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Because I was like, let me go roller skate and just get outside and find something to do. I was cooped up in the house and then I started watching all these professional roller skaters and I was like, oh, I should join a roller skating club. I should learn how to do this and this. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Back it up, back it up, shorty. That is not why we started this.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Huh? Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. And it's just by nature of how we were raised and because we raised ourselves, like for you, and you had to achieve.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

What else is on your mind in our last few minutes together.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. For me, I think I'm still always really receptive and open to ideas and so any ideas that may be top of mind for you. And then two, like, I would love to have a mentor like you at some point and I'm sure people ask you that all the time. And I believe that I'm a self aware person to understand time and how all of those things work, but that's really just a big bucket for me. Like, I think I have mentors in a lot of areas from a corporate standpoint, but I think that like this space, I feel like I'm on an island by myself. And that's okay. Like, you know, I've been on islands before and I can figure it out. But, you know, like, I think somebody like you as a, is again, value add and been able to really, really impact the black culture, you know, in. In severe and massive ways. And, you know, and I'm. I'm. That's part of my goal as well.

[Morgan Debon]

So thank you.

[Ben Collier II]

On my mind.

[Morgan Debon]

So I think you need an executive coach. I think less of a mentor. A mentor is really someone like your sisters, people who are ride or die, regardless of what's going on in your life for a long period of time. For some people, it's like professors or their pastor or people they can call and say, should I do this or should I do this? An advisor, an executive coach is someone who's helping you get to this next level. And I actually prefer advisors and executive coaches, depending on the scenario. If you were to say, well, I want to grow this podcast, well, you need a podcast advisor. Right. Like, they're specific, they're deep in their thing and they're going to help you get to the next level and then they're done.

[Ben Collier II]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

An executive coach might be more effective for you right now because you're really just making choices. So I have an executive coach. We meet. We used to meet every two weeks. Now we meet once a month. But I hired her. Her name is Emma. She's fantastic. I hired her because I was transitioning from mat leave back into corporate life, and I was terrified that I was going to go back into old habits of, like, working all the time and not having as many boundaries. And I really wanted to center for that season on my son and his first year of life, and I really wanted to be there for every step of his first year of life. And I needed an accountability partner to help me think through all of the things that could have got me left earned. Right. So speaking engagements come in. Okay, what's my criteria for speaking engagements? Okay, what's my criteria for, you know, a ball dropped on the team because someone had a. A disaster or family situation. And am I going to be the one that picks up the ball?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Old habit is Right. I don't have capacity. Has to do to pick up everybody's balls right now. Right. So I had to hire somebody to help me help myself and stay true to what I wanted to do. And then also to give me coaching on, like, we had somebody unexpectedly quick, and in their exit interview, they said some things that I was like, do I have a blind spot? Like, this is really interesting. Help me work through how to think about this or how to make changes in my behavior as a leader to be a better CEO for this company. Right. And so both tactical and personal in terms of accountability. Yeah, an executive coach is really helpful there. I can't be your executive coach because I don't have the capacity to meet every. Every other week.

[Ben Collier II]

Yep, yep. That's good.

[Morgan Debon]

But there's somebody that definitely does, and I think there's a million and one out there. The key when you're hiring them is to make sure that either they're, like, classically trained executive coaches or they have, like, frameworks. Like, Emma works with the larger companies that they have, you know, people who have frameworks that she imparts onto me and others. And there's, you know, advisors that have reached the goal that you want to get, which is basically what you're saying for me. You're like, you've done this, and I want to get there. There's other people who might have more time than I do.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, no, it's good. It's really sound advice that I actually haven't thought through because. Yeah, I mean, I have a. I have a lot of mentors, so I think that's the next level of what I need to focus on. And I've had it in my corporate job, you know, where you're getting a lot. They're. They're moving and aligning you to the right people. But I haven't had it specifically for somebody that's like. Yeah. Like being in the full picture. Right. So that's.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, your wife's super stable. You guys have dual income. You also have investment properties, so you're getting some passive income. So you guys have a lot of flexibility. Really?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

So it's really a question of, like, what's this next season envision look. Look like for you?

[Ben Collier II]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

And then how do you not just, like, stick with the momentum of what you already have?

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, you got it, you got it, you got it. Really, really good insight. This has been more valuable to me than, you know, so I'm very, very grateful. I truly appreciate it.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, I appreciate you as well. I'm excited for you. Tell me what video game you bought.

[Ben Collier II]

I'll let you know.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, and just send me a little. Okay, I did it.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll let you know for sure.

[Morgan Debon]

And shout out to your wife for letting you play video games.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. We'll see how that goes.

[Morgan Debon]

We'll see how that goes. But, no, I'm happy for you. I think just reframing how you approach. We rest on Sundays. And not to say that there's not going to be a season where maybe you do go all in and really put up. I don't know that that season has to be right now.

[Ben Collier II]

Yeah. Yep. Heard, heard. So thank you.

[Morgan Debon]

You're welcome. All right, that's it, Ben. I think we got a good plan forward.

[Ben Collier II]

Okay, awesome. Listen, I appreciate you more than, you know. No, nothing else on my end. Thank you for challenging me. And I needed it because I was gonna go back into the office, leave the office, and be with the kids for. Until they go down to sleep and open my computer back up. So I appreciate you always.

[Morgan Debon]

Anytime. All right, that's it for today.

[Ben Collier II]

Okay, my pleasure. Take care.

[Morgan Debon]

Bye. Thanks for listening to the Journey podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review and head to our Instagram and YouTube to leave a comment. I look forward to hearing how this podcast has made an impact on your own journey.