← The Journey with Morgan DeBaun
The Journey with Morgan DeBaun
Live Coaching with Morgan: Scaling & Career Shifts
00:58:22
For the first time ever on The Journey, Morgan DeBaun is hosting live coaching calls with entrepreneurs in her community. This week, she is joined by Esther and Leshawnda, two ambitious women each at a career crossroads and seeking Morgan's guidance....
Loading summary
Transcript200 lines
- [00:00]
Morgan
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Journey podcast. It's me, Morgan. New week, same me. We are talking to some incredible women today. We're doing a little bit trying something new with the podcast and the show. I wanted to bring you all some real life examples of incredible people who are looking to rewrite their rules around life and business and how they spend their time. What I'm realizing when talking to so many of you is that it just sometimes feels hard to go from where you are to where you want to be. You know, clearly where you want to be, but how to get there. Knowing what tools to use, what frameworks to use, and how you should prioritize your time can sometimes feel a bit overwhelming. So today we're going to do some live conversations with two incredible guests. We have Lashonda, who has made a few career transitions for herself. She is a senior executive and she's trying to figure out what's next. Do I go back to corporate or do I lean into entrepreneurship? So we're going to talk to Lashonda and we're going to talk to Esther. Esther is an OG in the work smart world. She joined us at CEO spring break last summer in Costa Rica. And Esther has 16 years of experience at leading a huge practice in mental health. And she just decided to close her business so she could have more freedom with her time. But she's trying to figure out how do I manage my time in a way where I don't get caught up in the same cycles of working really hard for everybody else, but not have enough time for myself. So Esther and I are going to walk through that today and I'm really excited to talk to these two women. I hope that you enjoy these sessions. Definitely. Leave a comment, a review. I read every single review that you guys give me. They are so awesome. So if you enjoyed this conversation in this format, definitely let me know. And make sure you're also pre ordering my book. Rewrite your rules. The book is designed to help you walk through these types of decisions in your life. If you're in a crossroads, that is the book for you. It comes out April 1st, but every pre order counts, so make sure that you're ordering it. And if you are, there might be a little special bonus that comes your way, so let me know and I look forward to getting your guys feedback on this episode. All right, let's get into it. Hey, everyone. I'm Morgan debon, a passionate entrepreneur and life advisor. With the Journey podcast, you'll discover that success isn't about the destination. It's about the journey. I'm sharing stories of amazing people who've taken control of their lives. Join me on my own journey to discover the secret sauce behind reaching success with permission from no one else. So, Esther, welcome back to All Things Work Smart. It's so good to see you. For context, anyone watching or listening in? Esther went to CEO spring break two summers ago. Two summers ago?
- [02:46]
Esther
Yeah. One. One summer.
- [02:48]
Morgan
Was it last summer?
- [02:49]
Esther
Yeah.
- [02:50]
Morgan
Oh, my gosh. That's crazy. I feel like. Yeah. So last summer in Costa Rica. And, Esther, why don't you tell me a little bit about what's going on behind the scenes? I noticed some things, I saw some announcements, but would love to hear from you directly.
- [03:06]
Esther
So, I mean, I feel like it was maybe brewing in the back of my head when I was at CEO spring break, but I made the decision basically the end of 2024 to close my business, which had. You asked me at the top of 2024, like, I had no exit plan. I had no intentions of literally of never doing it and just really kind of reevaluating, like, what my. The business itself and what was happening there and what it was going to require to kind of pivot into something that was going to be more sustainable, but also, like, what my life was looking like and feeling like and whether or not that really worked with the business. And ultimately it didn't. It doesn't. So I am exactly one week out from our last day, which just feels. Well, it feels like a lot of things.
- [03:59]
Morgan
Yeah. Well, for context, this is what I remember. So last summer, you were trying to figure out basically, how do you balance having a life and running this practice that you have. Yeah. And remind me how many employees and people you had working underneath you at the time?
- [04:19]
Esther
We were probably about 15 employees.
- [04:21]
Morgan
Yes. It's a big, big group of people. And then the other thing was, there was a bit of a constraint on how much money you could make because of how the revenue was coming in with the practice and the insurance groups. And so there was a lot of sacrifices and choices that you had to make personally as the owner of the business. When it was like, why am I working so hard? I mean, that was. I remember my. My thought for you was, oh, my gosh, she's working her butt off for everybody else.
- [04:49]
Esther
Yes.
- [04:50]
Morgan
To keep the lights on for everybody else. And a lot of entrepreneurs find themselves in that situation. Right. Like, they work really hard, but when things aren't exactly right, you cut your salary first or you're the one who goes without pay for A while. And it becomes this question of like, why am I doing this?
- [05:07]
Esther
Yeah, I think for me it was initially sort of like, why am I doing this? And then is this the best way for me to like, serve that purpose? And I think ultimately, I mean, it's been 16 years since I started the company and so I still have the same mission. Like, I want to make mental health more accessible. I want to bring mental health care and sort of broadly emotional wellness to more people to make it both affordable but also like more relevant to the people who've been marginalized. And the more I looked at, I was like, first of all, I fit in that category. I'm one of those people, I mean, not in real life, but like, I'm part of those marginalized communities that I want to serve. And I was like, this is not, this is not helping me serve more people. It's really just making me feel incredibly burnt out.
- [05:55]
Lashonda
Right.
- [05:56]
Esther
I can't personally sustain the life that I would want my clinicians and my administrative staff to have. That's right. And it just felt like, it felt like somewhere along the way, like it tipped from like, this is a short term solution and we're going to be fine to like, I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel because of the way the systems are and, and the personal, like getting into a mode of like where self sacrifice was the habit. Right.
- [06:25]
Morgan
So tell me why you signed up to chat today. Like, what are the things that you want to work through today?
- [06:29]
Esther
I think the biggest thing for me is like, as much as I want to create a different balance and like really commit to like actually giving myself a lot of space to like envision how I want to continue to like do the work I was doing, but in a new way. Like I said, I've been doing this for 16 years. I was talking to a friend and I realized that there's about a six month period where my kids were pretty small, where I was not like working at least two jobs and, or in school since I was 17. And for context, that was 30 years ago. Like, that's so I'm like, as much as I'm like, oh, I'm ready to do it different and not work 80 hour weeks and not take on 16 different projects, I'm also very aware that like, that has been my norm for a very long time. So as much as I help others kind of break those cycles, I feel like I probably not, probably I'm going to need some support in like figuring out how to do that differently and still be who I am. Like, I, I have a lot of ideas. I, I love that I am ambitious and like, feel like a visionary and all of those things. I just want to do it in a way that also lets me enjoy my life.
- [07:42]
Morgan
Yeah, I think that's awesome. I think it's good that you recognize. I think you've always had this self awareness of like, I know that I need experts and people to help give me some accountability and direction which will save you time and pain. I mean, I definitely always believe that. So tell me, like two years from now, we're sitting back in Costa Rica, we're having a little cocktail, a little guacamole. Life is good. You feel settled, you've made it through the transition. Tell me, if I were like, life is good. What's going on? Like, what would that look like for you?
- [08:12]
Esther
That would look like maybe I'm definitely more collaborative work. So like, maybe I have a project or two or that I'm solely responsible for, but that the other things that I do really involve working with other people where I am not the sole responsible party for how well it goes and decisions that we make. It definitely looks like more travel, more like leisure time. I don't know, maybe. Maybe I finally get good at ceramics.
- [08:47]
Morgan
Come on.
- [08:48]
Esther
Yeah, you know, something like that. I, like, I have a creative hobby that I do pretty regularly that the first word people use to describe me is not busy. I'm ready to sort of let that go as being like such a central part of my identity. I think I would seem content.
- [09:08]
Morgan
More present, more time with family, friends.
- [09:11]
Esther
Yes, definitely, Definitely.
- [09:13]
Morgan
Okay, so we've got travel, we've got hobbies, we've got collaborative working in community with other people. Are we broke? What's going on?
- [09:22]
Esther
No, we're very wealthy.
- [09:25]
Morgan
How much money are we making?
- [09:28]
Esther
We need to be. Yeah, like, no, we're making, you know, well over seven figures. Because you want to support this life and I want to support, be able to like, easily support the causes that are important to me. And not only with like my time and energy. All the, you know, like, I don't always want to have to be volunteering and doing things. Like sometimes I just want to like, comfortably, like, write a fat check.
- [09:53]
Morgan
Okay, I love that. I think that's a great motivation. Like, look, I ain't got the time, but I got the money. Yeah, I think that's awesome. Okay, so we want to get back to an income level that also gives us freedom of time.
- [10:09]
Esther
Yes.
- [10:10]
Morgan
So one of the tools That I don't know that we went through this during CEO spring break. But one of the tools that I have that I talk about often is the scalability quadrant, which is basically what can you do, what can other people do, what's high value and what's low value? So what is uniquely you that you can charge a high price for? Okay, right. And also depending, I mean it's hard because to some extent you to make kind of like the work is optional money where like I can just give away $5,000 and I don't have to think about it kind of money. You do need to have some sort of like asset. Right. I mean it's not like you're going to make a million dollars as a consultant with just one person. You might have to a team, you might have to have subcontractors and things come together. So the problem with the practice business was that it really had a fixed amount of money that could come in and come out. Because you have 16 years as a business owner. It was just the wrong business. Right. So the question is for you is how do you create the right product offering or the right company to support your lifestyle but also give you the freedom that you have earned. Frankly at this point and my question to you outside of the practice is what have been in the last six months other ways that you've made money outside of the practice? What's. Tell me a little bit more about what's been going on there.
- [11:33]
Esther
Sure. So two things immediately come to, well, three things that I actually really love all of them. So one is my retreat program, the Compassion Collective that has, I actually sat and did the numbers. If that was not subsidizing the practice, it actually did pretty well last year. So that's really great. I love that work. It is similar to like more direct client care. It does require my presence and my time, but it is, it's a group. It's not like seeing client every week for an hour obviously. And so I love doing the retreats. I think there's some places I'd like to think about how I can scale that in a way that makes sense. The other one is executive coaching. I've been doing a lot more of that because I do have 16 years of experience and especially I think working with like physicians, other therapists, people who have sort of very mission driven and service oriented businesses. I've learned a lot things I did really well things I'm like, oh gosh, I wish I had done it differently. And so like I think that's Work that I do that I really enjoy and again requires all of my time. I'm noticing a theme because the third would be doing speaking and workshop facilitation, like coming into organizations, going to conferences and really doing work around burnout and self compassion. And I love that. So in all three cases, I think kind of goes right to the question you're asking, which is like the scalability piece. How do I take those and turn that into something that I don't have to show up every day to do it?
- [13:00]
Morgan
That's right. So you gave me three. One is group coaching, effectively group advising. Group therapy is a group. Is it technically therapy or.
- [13:08]
Esther
No, it's. No, I would say it's more coaching slash consulting, depending on the group of. You know, sometimes like the women that are there all have very similar like professions or place. Like they're all C suite executives. So we're doing a little bit more kind of like around career planning.
- [13:25]
Morgan
Right.
- [13:25]
Esther
But I would say generally it's more coaching.
- [13:28]
Morgan
Yeah, I think retreats fall into that to some extent. And then there's personal brand and then there's actually B2B helping other business owners.
- [13:40]
Esther
Yeah.
- [13:40]
Morgan
Right. Out of those three, which ones do you think you can build a system or a framework where you don't have to show up once there's a curriculum or there's a process and someone else could be doing the delivery of your, your framework?
- [13:53]
Esther
Probably the last two. I think the B2B stuff, like I already have a lot of systems and a lot of like very concrete things. Like I could train some other people to be able to do that. The retreats. The retreats is a place where I feel like I need, I will probably need some coaching. The short answer is yes, I could, I could definitely create systems and like there is a clear framework for how I run them and what we talk about and what happens there. And I love it and don't want to not do it. And so there's a little resistance to like, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to do what's required to scale it because I want to keep doing it.
- [14:30]
Morgan
You enjoy it. It's more than just an income, it is a passion. It's something that brings you joy. Keep it. Right. I mean, you know me, I do all types of stuff just because it makes me happy, it doesn't make me money. And that's fine. Right. So. So then let's go with the easy answer, which was your B2B services. And I like this one too because B2B. That's going to have the biggest potential discretionary income. Right. Another practice, someone who's considering maybe starting their own practice. Those are people who have discretionary income and know that they need to invest money to grow. Right. So let's talk about that a little bit more.
- [15:10]
Esther
Okay.
- [15:11]
Morgan
In the last six months, tell me about people who have reached out to you or people you've talked to. What kind of problems are they coming to you for to solve when they're like, hey, can I just pick your brain? What are the things that they're asking you?
- [15:24]
Esther
A lot of it is around scaling. Certainly there's questions around insurance. Do I take it? I started to kind of take it. How do I get out of it? Or I want to take insurance, and how do I need to sort of frame that and kind of helping people think about that. But I would say a lot of it is getting clear about what their strategy is. Like, who do they want to serve, how do they want to position themselves or their practice, like, in the market generally, what do they want to be known for? And then the rest of it is around, definitely around hiring. Like, how do I hire, how do I supervise, how do I market those people, how do I get them full? All of those kinds of things.
- [16:02]
Morgan
I love this. This sounds so straightforward to me. Right? Tell me.
- [16:08]
Esther
Yeah.
- [16:08]
Morgan
How if I were like, okay, I've got $30,000. I am a OB GYN, and I work within a private practice now. I'm a partner here, but I don't worry about anything. I literally just, like, deliver my services and deliver babies, and I get paid. And I have, like, a little bit of a rev share, but I don't feel like the rev share is fair. And I don't really like working here, and I don't like these other ladies, and I feel like there should be a black ob gyn, and I don't know Charlotte, and so I want to start there, but I literally am a doctor.
- [16:42]
Esther
Help.
- [16:43]
Morgan
Yes.
- [16:45]
Esther
I mean, I literally have a whole framework for this. I actually taught it as a graduate course for therapists, like, years ago called the Business of Therapy.
- [16:54]
Morgan
Of course you did.
- [16:57]
Esther
So that was. Which was fun. And so, I mean, really, it is kind of understanding the business aspect of this. Right. Like, let's talk systems. Um, I usually sort of start with, like, who's your ideal patient? What do you do that's really unique. Let's build out your branding and your marketing strategy. Then let's talk about internal systems. Everything from scheduling to your billing to your. You Know, where do you need to hire somebody? Where do you need to learn how to do this for yourself? Because it's not that hard really. I mean like a full map and be. And then I think offering some like one on one coaching, you know, to support people in that sort of process. But I love doing that work because I think that that's one of my sort of sweet spots is like, I'm good at the big picture and I've built enough systems to understand how that happens. Like, what I love and what I loved about my team, you know, even though we're closing, is like, I finally had a team where it was like, ah, here's what we're doing. And then they understood the system and they did have all things. And so I think it is something that I could do really well and then teach other, have other staff who can like roll out programs.
- [18:05]
Morgan
What are you noticing as you're explaining this to me?
- [18:08]
Esther
Very. I feel a little excited about this. Like, oh, I could do this. This isn't too hard. I know how to do this and I think there's a lot of value in it. Actually, what I'm really noticing is it is a way that I hadn't considered serving my sort of overarching purpose. Like, if I want to improve accessibility, I don't have to be the provider. I don't even have to own the company that provides the services. Can I help other black, brown, other marginalized people, like, identity? Yeah, women. Like, can I help you build? Because there are a lot of people who really do want to be running practices and can I help them build that in a way that feels sustainable and profitable and, you know, doesn't lead to some of the burnout that I experienced so that they can keep serving communities.
- [19:00]
Morgan
That's right. And different industries are gonna have different, you know, insurance premiums, etc, so therapy's tough, but like ob gyn?
- [19:08]
Esther
Yeah, absolutely. I'm like, there's a whole different way of figuring that out. And I think I've worked with enough physicians to sort of understand that model where it's like, yeah, you're billing the problem with therapists like you bill on one or two procedure codes. Like, it's just difficult. It's like, yeah, an ob gyn, a dermatologist. I'm like, we can have a beautiful blend.
- [19:26]
Morgan
Yeah, you can work two days a week as a derm and still come out. What a nice.
- [19:30]
Esther
Yeah, life.
- [19:31]
Morgan
Yeah. Right. Okay, so now I think this is great. I don't even think like, we are, we're only what, 18 minutes in, like, done. Okay, next. So what do you want to do next? How are you going to handle this?
- [19:44]
Esther
I want to find a balance. Like, I want to figure out, like, what is the plan and the structure and like, I basically want to create a system for myself, like, what does this look like? And kind of walk through more or less all the steps that I would give someone else to build this business and like, you know, new website, new marketing, build my network, all of those things.
- [20:03]
Morgan
You don't have to do all that. You don't have to do all that. That's going to take a long time and that's a mental load that is going to burn you out. You already have all the answers. You already know. Like, if I literally said tomorrow, here's to someone with that exact scenario, can you help them?
- [20:18]
Esther
You'd be like, yeah, yeah.
- [20:21]
Morgan
So why do we need a website and a system and I don't need all that. You are the rainmaker. You hold all the knowledge. Right. And if you don't know the answer, you know where to go to do the research to get the answer for them. Yeah, Right. So actually my challenge to you is going to be, hey, I'm offering this. And you could do one of two things. You could do, hey, I'm gonna do a four week group practice coaching thing. I don't know the right framing for it, but let's call it a group. So you wanna start a practice or you're thinking about starting a practice group coaching. It's gonna be four weeks. We're gonna meet once a week for an hour. And you're gonna start with just the four things that you mentioned to me. Should I? Now that I've decided that I'm gonna do it, how should I do it? What are the systems? Teams, things I need to take in consideration and then how do I manage the risk? Right. And that's going to be your topics for the four weeks. You can change these, but those are going to be your topics for the four weeks. And you are just going to make like five slides. You're going to teach for like 10 minutes and then you're going to open it up to Q A.
- [21:28]
Esther
Okay.
- [21:28]
Morgan
And then they're going to ask you questions. And because you know your shit, you're going to give them answers. You're going to say, I don't know the answer to that question. I will follow up with you.
- [21:37]
Esther
Yeah.
- [21:38]
Morgan
Okay. And then after those four weeks, you'll have recorded all those calls. You're going to put them into AI. It's going to transcribe them for you. Then you're going to put it into another AI, most likely ChatGPT Premium, and you're going to say, based off of these transcriptions, can you develop a course outline for me? And it's going to start to develop the framework that you already have in your mind. But it's going to remove the mental load of you, like, sitting there and be like, I'm going to write out my curriculum because you talking naturally is a better way. And then you're also going to get the language and the vocabulary that the practitioners are using.
- [22:14]
Esther
Yeah.
- [22:15]
Morgan
Because how they describe their problems or their questions are going to be, like, different than how you would describe their problem to questions. And now all of a sudden, you are going to have a whole thing, and then you're going to use all the content to make your landing page. And then from the landing page, then you're going to be. Then you can start the process on.
- [22:35]
Esther
Yeah.
- [22:35]
Morgan
That you were going to go through now, but you can actually wait till later.
- [22:39]
Esther
Okay, that is so helpful. It helps me to really also just think about, like, I think this is a place where I also need to be really mindful. I definitely have a tendency to create more work for myself than I need, like, or more work on the front end than is necessary. So that's actually a really helpful.
- [23:00]
Morgan
Why do you think you do that? Where does that come from?
- [23:04]
Esther
Oh, I mean, everywhere. I. I think some of it is, you know, societal. Just feeling, you know, being a woman, being a black woman. Some of that is from my family, like, coming from an immigrant family. Like, there is high work ethic. You work hard. You know, I always joke that I had, like, the liberal, like, immigrant parents. So it wasn't like, if I got an A, it was fine. I was okay that I didn't have an A plus or, you know, like, but that. That general, like, those are, like, those are families that I grew up with. It's like, yeah, like, what do you mean you got a 98? Like, who got 100? Like, you should always. And even though we laugh about it, I'm like, I recognize that. That is, like, ingrained in me.
- [23:48]
Morgan
Right.
- [23:48]
Esther
And so as much as, again, it's sort of this interesting dichotomy for me of, like, I'm really good at helping other people.
- [23:55]
Morgan
Right.
- [23:56]
Esther
Break that pattern. And really not always the best at noticing when I'm falling into it myself of, like, oh, I have to do all the things. I have to prove all the Things like. Yeah, yeah, no, I know what it's like.
- [24:08]
Morgan
There's no reward for working more hours or putting in more effort or being more prepared. There's no secret reward. You know, there's no one grading whether you got a 95 or 100. It's done. It's, it's happened already. It's done. And I think for many of us high achieving women of color specifically, we have to unlearn that desire to be, to work physically more hours and like just not be non stop for the exact same outcome that we could have if we worked less. Yeah, like there's something weird about how we are wired that makes us feel like I don't deserve it or I cheated the system or something. There's something there that's like, hey, I could work five hours and make a hundred thousand dollars or I could work a hundred hours and make a hundred thousand dollars and we weirdly feel better about the working way more hours to make the same amount of money. Yeah, we gotta let that go.
- [25:09]
Esther
We really have to let that go. It's like this weird sort of, there is a, it's almost like, yeah, like there's like a weird intrinsic value in like I'm so, like I've done all the things I've worked so hard. Like almost like waiting for somebody to question whether you deserve it. Right. And it's like, well, those hundred hours prove I deserve it.
- [25:28]
Morgan
That's right.
- [25:28]
Esther
If I only have five, maybe I'm not checking anymore.
- [25:31]
Morgan
Like you don't work within a system anymore. We're not in college, we're not, we're not being questioned by our big boss at these companies. Like we don't, we work for ourselves. So there's literally no one there to even question it. If I was talking to somebody who worked at like Google, I'd be like, okay, like I, like we gotta work through the system but we don't even work at Google. So yeah, gotta let it go.
- [25:54]
Esther
Yeah.
- [25:55]
Morgan
I want you to reward yourself for working less and making work.
- [25:59]
Esther
I want to get to a place where that feels like my natural, like that's my natural inclination. Right. Like I'm good at, I'm good at rewarding myself after I've worked really hard.
- [26:10]
Morgan
That's right.
- [26:10]
Esther
I want to be good at rewarding myself for the accomplishment. Like oh, I did the thing or you know, whatever and it doesn't matter how. Like I didn't work as hard as I had to to achieve whatever it is I was trying to get done.
- [26:22]
Morgan
Yeah, yeah, I Think you should consider building yourself a reward system that's a reflection of. I did this efficiently and effortlessly and I got it done. What is your reward system? Maybe it's a ceramics class or a ring. Maybe it's a trip. It's like, I am now taking this time that I would have just, like, worked my ass off for. And I'm going to rest and I'm going to play and I'm going to have fun. Might go out for lunch in the middle of the day because I finished my work. Yeah, it's gonna feel so weird. Like, you know, it's gonna feel so weird. But the more you replace that, like, extra hours with the things that you've mentioned that you want to do and bring you joy. So for me, it's painting. So, like, I will. I have to fight myself. I used to have to fight myself a lot more. Not as much anymore, but, like, I will finish work and just be like, I'm finished. Like, yes, I could work more, but I did what I said I was going to do. I, like, responded to all my emails. My inbox is at inbox zero. I wrote whatever needed to be written. I approved all the things. I recorded videos. I went live on TikTok. I did all the things I'm just done. And I bring up my little pastels and I just, like, paint a picture. Just call it done.
- [27:36]
Esther
It's just nice. It's just done.
- [27:38]
Morgan
You did it. You're done with the day. Okay.
- [27:42]
Esther
It is. That is something. And I think over the last year, like, all of 2024, like, I noticed myself and I had been there again. Like, I had really worked at, like, that not being my habit. And I think that's part of those. It's one of a multitude of things that led me to realize, like, oh, I have to make. I need to make a very significant change. Right. Because, you know, probably eight or nine years ago, like, that's how I lived all the time. I worked until she went to sleep. Yeah, basically, yeah. I mean, somebody would need something, you know, like, I would work, go home, feed my kids, spend time with them, and then go back to work until 11 or 12 and, like, get up and do it again. And, like, I finally had started to get out of that. And I just noticed in the last, like, year, I was like, oh, I'm doing it. There's no one to feed. There's nobody. Like, it's just me. And yet, like, I'm working until 8:00.
- [28:34]
Morgan
Yeah.
- [28:35]
Esther
And then struggling to, like, put it Down. So I've been better in the last three or four months, but just replace it.
- [28:42]
Morgan
You have to. To stop doing it. You have to replace it with something else. This idea that you're just gonna magically stop is, like, to your point. It's so ingrained in your upbringing and everything. Yeah. So the outcome can't be, I'm just gonna sit and watch Netflix, because that won't hold you. So it needs to be something, like, meaningful that brings you to joy. It could be you're going to start Pilates. You're going to learn pickleball. You're going to, you know, and then you load up your calendar. You say, pilates, pickleball, pottery.
- [29:09]
Esther
Yeah.
- [29:10]
Morgan
Volunteering with puppies. I don't care. Whatever makes you happy.
- [29:14]
Esther
I live with puppies. I don't need any extra puppies. But, yeah, Pilates might be a good idea.
- [29:20]
Morgan
So fun. Try it.
- [29:21]
Esther
Yeah.
- [29:22]
Morgan
You know, so I think that would be. Those are my two things for you on the work side. You actually have enough of a network already. You have enough of a social following, and you have enough of a network that you could say, hey, starting February 5th, sign up for this thing. It's going to last all the way through February. And we're going to cover these four topics. It's $1500, low price, literally. Link, stripe, boom, boom, bam. You don't need all the things. It's on zoom. It's a zoom link. If you get five people, I'd be thrilled.
- [29:55]
Esther
Yeah.
- [29:55]
Morgan
You don't need more than three, really, to have a conference call.
- [29:59]
Esther
Yeah, this is true.
- [30:00]
Morgan
So lower your expectation. Does it need to be 50 people? Does it need 25? Five.
- [30:05]
Esther
Five. Five. We could do five. And. Yeah, I like this idea. This actually, it feels really good and I think helps me to feel, like, more balanced between the part of me that's like, what am I doing? You know, I mean, I obviously, I still see clients and whatever, but, you know, it's like the part of me that, like, oh, what's next? I want to be starting something. And the part of me that's like, what if we just rested more? Like, this feels like it would let me do both.
- [30:32]
Morgan
And the other thing that I think might be helpful for you is deciding how much money you want to make every month for the next six months. Right. So you might say, like, okay, I want to make $10,000 a month for the next six months. And, like, I would be fine with just making that. So when you hit that $10,000 a month, then you stop Working for the month. This is gonna be really hard for you.
- [30:51]
Esther
That's. That sounds crazy, but. Okay, I know.
- [30:57]
Morgan
I understand it sounds crazy, but that's. You have to do some weird things to rewire yourself.
- [31:04]
Esther
Yeah. Oh, okay.
- [31:07]
Morgan
Because I know you can make $10,000 in a month. That's actually not gonna be hard for you.
- [31:11]
Esther
Okay.
- [31:12]
Morgan
Right. Like, Yeah, I decided. You do 1500 a person. Five people. We're already at. What. What's that math?
- [31:19]
Esther
6, 7, 500.
- [31:22]
Morgan
Yeah. 7, 500. Yeah, we're already 7, 500 if you get five people.
- [31:26]
Esther
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Morgan
Once a week, an hour. You're prepping for maybe two to three hours before. Yeah, maybe you're doing some prep. Three to four hours. So we're talking about six, seven, eight hours of work a week.
- [31:37]
Esther
Yeah.
- [31:38]
Morgan
That's 7, 500.
- [31:40]
Esther
We could do that.
- [31:42]
Morgan
So you want a couple clients, you're working on a retreat. You only need to make. What. What is that? 2500 more?
- [31:49]
Esther
Yeah.
- [31:50]
Morgan
Then you're done.
- [31:51]
Esther
Yeah. Okay. All right. I can do that, I think. Yeah. I. I'm gonna write this down. Like, I'm gonna put it on my. The wall in my office because I'm like, when you make $10,000, stop working or whatever the number is. Right. But just to kind of. To, like, actually see if I can try to do that, because it does feel hard. It just feels like. Well, if I make that, like, that feels like motivation to do more work.
- [32:17]
Morgan
Oh.
- [32:18]
Esther
Like, well, if I could do that. And, like, if I do that in the first two weeks of the month.
- [32:22]
Morgan
Like, I'm making $25,000. Yeah. And that's not what we're trying to do right now, because we know you can make $25,000. Right. So try to do that. Send me an email in two weeks or send me a dm. Whatever. Whatever. It's easiest. Whenever you launch the. Hey, I'm doing this thing. Send it to me.
- [32:41]
Esther
All right, I'm gonna send it.
- [32:43]
Morgan
Okay. All right. I'm excited for you. I look forward to checking in in a few weeks.
- [32:47]
Esther
I am excited too. Thank you.
- [32:49]
Morgan
You're welcome. Okay. Lashonda, welcome to the show.
- [32:54]
Esther
How are you?
- [32:54]
Lashonda
Thank you. I'm good. I'm so excited to be here and just thankful to be here and spend time with you.
- [33:02]
Morgan
So tell me what's going on.
- [33:04]
Lashonda
Well, I wanted to reach out because I feel like I'm at a pivotal place in my career. I'm a Gen Xer, and I'm at a point where I've been working in corporate America. For over 20 years at top companies, have wonderful experiences, wonderful projects and as you know, this is a very tough kind of season as it relates to, you know, job hunting. And so I feel like I'm sort of being pushed into an entrepreneurial space. Something that I've been wanting to do for a while, but it's scary nervous of course about it, but I feel like the doors keep opening in that direction. But yet there's this tug that wants me to kind of keep looking at corporate because there is a perceived kind of perception, you know, comfortability, safety, you know, and not that you say anyway today, but just trying to figure out taking that step, what is that step? How do I take that step and staying committed to it.
- [34:07]
Morgan
That's right. And have you had contracts or consulting agreements before?
- [34:13]
Lashonda
No, this would be my first time. I've done things before on the side just for free, you know, helping out friends, but this is going to be my first time really kind of putting myself out there as a service and providing a value to potential customers.
- [34:28]
Morgan
Awesome. And tell me a little bit more about what kind of service you would offer.
- [34:33]
Lashonda
It's a marketing consultancy. I really want to focus on small and medium sized businesses, really kind of taking insight and expertise of all my experience working at different Fortune 500 companies and helping them to kind of turn their visions into realities, but particularly consulting in the space of brand marketing, innovation, brand development and marketing strategy.
- [34:59]
Morgan
So give me like an if someone was like your perfect customer and they were like, I got money, can you help me? What would they specifically what would the deliverable be? What would, what solution would you have for them and what would be their problem?
- [35:12]
Lashonda
So I would think the problem is one, they're probably very new and so they're at a point where they're trying to source out marketing support and I would basically advise on, you know, what type of marketing support you should have. So providing guidance on developing their team structure in a sense, sort of acting like a practitional CMO and then providing guidance as far as whether it's branding from a voice and tone perspective or even from a go to market perspective. And the way that I see myself is not necessarily doing the work itself even in the club, but it's really more advising their team on what to do and how to do it.
- [35:53]
Morgan
And tell me more about why you're saying you wouldn't implement.
- [35:57]
Lashonda
I think it's just learnings, I think. You know, it's funny, when I left my last job, everyone was just like, I can't Wait to see where you land. So in my mind I just felt like I was going to land in another corporate gig and that hasn't happened. I tried to go out there and open. Unfortunately, there's this trifecta of things that are kind of happening right now. You know, media, entertainment, technology has often sort of impacted and if you add all the external things that are happening as well. And so it's just a very challenging market. And so I think it's more about taking that step to bet on myself.
- [36:33]
Morgan
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think, I guess I'm still trying to understand. So this is what I'm hearing from you. I was a senior executive and that's a role and identity that I identified with was like being a senior executive. And although the world has changed slightly and I've been looking and putting myself out there and trying to see if there's another company that I could work with, there is something about entrepreneurship and working with smaller companies and helping them get set up that I'm curious about and I'm intrigued by. But I also recognize that that feels crazy to be a full time entrepreneur and start from scratch at this point in my career at my seniority level. And so what I hear the tension between is I'm super senior, but if I'm going to work with a up and coming business or a small business, I want to continue to be the super senior person. But if they're a small business, they can't afford someone super senior. Yeah, right. So if they are someone who is starting a new brand or launching a new product, unless they have venture funding and all the, you know, they're a second time founder or they're independently wealthy, they're going to be hiring agencies and consultants to do the work, to tell them what to do and then do it. They're not going to have the time or the money to hire someone to tell them what to do and then go find the people to do it and then manage those people. It's just not realistic. So either you're going to work with established companies with established budgets as a consultant, or you're going to work with small businesses and hire your own subcontractors to implement the work. You don't always have to be the one who does it for the right price. You can, you know how to find people to deliver the services. So it doesn't have to be you people. Right. But you would have to offer the full stack. Okay, what's your reaction to that?
- [38:36]
Lashonda
I would agree. I think, I think that I'm not necessarily scared of getting my hands dirty or even the senior piece. I think it's just taking that step in that leap of entrepreneurship because again, there's this perceived safety that you know, when you're working in corporate setting, not having to worry about health benefits and things of that nature, other areas. I think one of the reasons why I'm passionate about this space is because I really have a passion about innovation and really around understanding trends. And so I also want to kind of parlay that into doing more speaking, you know, on various panels and different discussions around innovation, various future trends as well. And so I think that's what's kind of driving towards wanting to help small and medium sized businesses.
- [39:25]
Morgan
Right. How are you making money today?
- [39:28]
Lashonda
Right now? Not really making too much money. I have a couple of consulting projects that I'm working on. But yes.
- [39:38]
Morgan
Okay. So there's no stability at all. So we're starting where we're starting.
- [39:41]
Lashonda
Yes.
- [39:42]
Morgan
Oh yes. So you know, I think that's instead of like it being attached to the, the fantasy of like corporate stability and all this stuff, like where we are is where we are. So really we're trying to get from where we are today to $10,000 a month. Right? Exactly right. So that's really the question that you should be thinking about is like, what are the things that I can do to get to $10,000 a month? And within my own skill set, what is packages or offers that I can create to get me to that level? And I'll ask you that right now. If I were to say in the next 30 days, you need to close two clients that pay you $5,000 each on a retainer a month, what would you offer them?
- [40:30]
Lashonda
That's a very good question. I probably need to think about that. I mean, I think you will probably be. Some of the things that we discussed earlier around providing support, whether it's from go to market strategy or whether it's from the growing kind of brand element. Brandon, brand mission and vision, things of that state, you know, helping the evening that their SEO, their SEM kind of plans, really how they activating in marketplace. But I think I need to probably sit down and really kind of formalize that.
- [41:02]
Morgan
I would encourage you to think about it and also to consider even with some of the things you said, some of those are one time things. And for stability in entrepreneurship you need things that are recurring. So if someone hires you to do brand strategy, just to do a brand launch, to evaluate their mission, their vision, you know, kind of like Spin up this whole kind of like company ethos, etc. That's a one time project. And then you're, and then you're done. You're never going to work with them again because it's done. Right. So you might want to consider what are the things that are recurring deliverables or responsibilities that your consulting firm, when it happens, will do that people will say, yeah, I'm going to keep these people on, on our payroll, on our balance sheet every month. So for example, SEO was a good one, right? You could say, yep, we do a quarterly SEO audit and we do a quarterly set of recommendations on things that you should do, one through 20. And then every quarter we come back and we evaluate how much progress we've made and do it again. Right. You want to a world where you are more stable and you're not constantly chasing clients. What I really hear you saying is stability is important for you. Right. And so to do that, in the world of entrepreneurship, you have the privilege of being able to design the right business model that matches your requirements and your needs and so of stability and consistency and knowing what's paychecks are coming in and what direct deposits are going to hit. Then you want to have a business model and a product offering that reflects that, Right?
- [42:40]
Lashonda
Yes, that's a great point. I didn't really think about it from that perspective. I was probably thinking more about, let me just keep chasing these opportunities versus developing packages or solutions that could kind of lead to something a little bit longer term.
- [42:53]
Morgan
Yeah. As a retainer, I mean, you scream retainer, right? So if you want a retainer, then you got to start like getting into the world of hey, what are the things that, if I was the CMO at this company or I was the founder of this company and I was going to hire me, what would I be willing to put somebody on a retainer for? Right. And once you work backwards from there, then you start to say, okay, you know what, 10k a month, that's going to be three clients at 3500, just a little more. Right. And what is somebody willing, what is a business that's making? I mean, how much money does a business have to be making to be able to support a 3, 500amonth retainer? Right. Ballpark range. It's definitely more than a million dollars a year. Right. It's probably 2 million, 3 million, 4 million. It's enough that they've got some money to play with and some cash flow to play with. Right. Okay. So then I say, okay, well who in my network is in that range? We're not talking about companies that have 2,000 employees. Right. Because everything you said is a bit of a generalist offer, which is still very good. So then who in my network is in the 3 to $10 million revenue range where they can't quite afford a CMO, but they know they could optimize some things, but they don't have time for it, so they're willing to pay.
- [44:15]
Lashonda
For it, you free.
- [44:17]
Morgan
And then that's when it starts to become, like, more real about how you have a plan that's going to give you a sense of stability.
- [44:24]
Lashonda
No, I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. You see that? Now I just have to do it.
- [44:29]
Morgan
Yeah, well, but you can do it. You know, you can do it. I mean, you got this far, right? Like, you're going to be fine. I have confidence you can do it. But let's talk about marketing. I noticed that your Instagram was private. Tell me how you currently engage online. Tell me kind of how you want to brand yourself. Because you mentioned you wanted to do some speaking engagements and build yourself as a thought leader.
- [44:50]
Lashonda
Yes. So I've been going back and forth. Yes, you are right. My Instagram currently is private and I've been thinking about making it public.
- [44:59]
Morgan
Okay.
- [45:00]
Lashonda
I would say right now I've started to engage more on LinkedIn. So I'm proud of myself because Ashley created a newsletter a couple of months ago. Pop Visions Target Both Ideals into Realities. It really. It's a newsletter that's there to really kind of inspire people and kind of use different case studies to kind of highlight how people, whether they're famous or not, have taken an ideal and brought it to life. And I'm hitting all the different industries just because of my background of working in various industries. So my nas, my last newsletter, I just talked about my experience at going to the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas, go to highlight some new stuff. I also just established a substack because what I realized is not Everybody is on LinkedIn to follow the newsletter. So I have substack as well. And so those are probably my three main. It's substack, LinkedIn and Instagram. But as you mentioned, my Instagram is private, so I think it's okay.
- [46:03]
Morgan
When I see a private Instagram and someone who's in Gen X, I say, this person's a boss. They don't need Instagram.
- [46:09]
Lashonda
No.
- [46:09]
Morgan
I saw a Gen Z person with no Instagram. I say, baby, what? We do it. Okay. So you should lean into whatever you're comfortable with. I just wanted to hear your why and I think your rationale and focusing on LinkedIn and Substack is really smart because that's where your customers are. Your customers are hanging out on Instagram, they're hanging out on LinkedIn.
- [46:29]
Lashonda
So I guess I do have a question because, you know, part of this is, you know, displaying myself as a thought leader and, and that's where I get kind of trying to figure out the right approach. And, you know, I've been going back and forth with Instagram. Is that a place?
- [46:47]
Morgan
I don't think so for you? I think with your personality type, I think it would be more mental load than impact in terms of revenue. The real question that I ask myself when I'm evaluating what platform am I focusing on is where do my customers live? Where do my customers think? Where are my customers gathering information. And because you want to work with more advanced companies, you're not actually going after like small businesses, really. I mean, you're going after established companies. You're going after well financed companies. Even if they're new, they know what they're doing. Right. And your solution is a time saver and potentially a cost saver if they were pre CMO. So in that case, they're on LinkedIn. Like they're opening LinkedIn every day. They're looking, they're looking at their clients on LinkedIn. They're looking at it for the trends and the conversations and the. And you know, CES is a great example of like, yeah, you're investing in yourself. You're investing and being in the right places at the right levels. And not Everybody goes to CES. Right. Like, I didn't go to CS this year, but I've read probably 20 articles on different things that were talked about at CES or products that were announced at CES. Right. So there is a niche that your world makes sense for. I think substack is great. It still feels a little general to me. Just like trends and leadership and innovation, it's too general, you know, So I would encourage you to think about where you're most likely to have customers and niche down. Is it consumer?
- [48:22]
Esther
Is it B2B?
- [48:23]
Morgan
Is it a certain revenue level? You know, is it, is it companies under 200 employees? Like, I would encourage you to think about that a little bit more and be more specific and then you can grow from there. But niching down will get you probably more traction.
- [48:38]
Esther
I'll bet it.
- [48:39]
Lashonda
No, that's, that's great. I haven't really been thinking about It, I, I think maybe one of the challenges, or maybe it's a blessing too is because I've worked in so many different industries.
- [48:47]
Morgan
Yes.
- [48:48]
Lashonda
It's not like I'm saying, hey, I, I just want to focus on tech companies, but I bring a wealth of experience working at consumer packaged goods and electronics and things of that nature. So I didn't want to put myself too much in a niche, but maybe I do.
- [49:04]
Morgan
Well, if you want to go the route of I know a lot about a lot of industries, then your niche would have to be that. But I solved this problem regardless of the industry. So you can go either way. You can say I'm going to niche down on these industries and I'm a generalist, but for healthcare. Right. Or you say I solve this specific problem at every company. I don't care what your company does because it's the same flow. You know, what's your brand statement, what's your corporate marketing plan? What's your lead funnel? I drive business to your business by helping you solve these problems. I've got a five step system and we run everything through this five step system and that's what I do and then I maintain it.
- [49:48]
Lashonda
Okay.
- [49:49]
Morgan
What do you think about that?
- [49:51]
Lashonda
No, I like that, I like that. Getting more specific about my offering and who I'm targeting. I think that will help because right now I feel like I just been pretty full on theater.
- [50:02]
Morgan
Yeah. Your website is really nice.
- [50:04]
Lashonda
Thank you.
- [50:05]
Morgan
I think it could definitely be more specific on who you like. Once you decide who you want to go after, then just making sure that it's clear.
- [50:13]
Esther
Okay.
- [50:14]
Morgan
The fact that you have a lot of experience across multiple industries is the reason people will hire you. But it doesn't have to be the reason why you offer that service or product.
- [50:22]
Esther
Okay.
- [50:23]
Morgan
Right. What else is.
- [50:26]
Lashonda
I think another part is just the relevancy piece, you know, because again, when you look at the trend from a marketing perspective, things are constantly changing as far as how consumers are being reached. And so I'm trying to make sure that I'm staying on top of those trends. And it's funny because when you think about from a corporate standing, you know, you had a team and so your team was kind of handling the day to day kind of activities and you just kind of over, you know, see what's happening in a sense. And so now I feel like, was I too withdrawn, I guess, from the day to day activities to really feel and stay relevant in today's time?
- [51:06]
Morgan
I don't think so. I can understand why you Might feel that way of like, because I let everybody else do the work now, I don't know as much about how the work is done, like discreetly. But you have wisdom, you know, you have leadership skills. You have ability to communicate complex situations and understand complex organizations and to make it simple. Right. You have the ability to influence. These are incredible skills that a lot of people do not have. So I don't care that you don't know how to use ChatGPT, you know what I'm saying? But that's also why my, my point is you're not working with a small business necessarily because they just need the copywritten.
- [51:50]
Lashonda
Okay?
- [51:51]
Morgan
Right. And they should use ChatGPT to do that. So I think one of the biggest things with entrepreneurship is like, be who you are. There's a million and one customers, so you just have to figure out the right product market fit for who you are. Naturally. You don't have to go against the grain of who you are and what you bring to the table naturally, like, you are already more than enough. We just got to find the right match for you.
- [52:15]
Lashonda
I think that's probably the struggle is being who you are. I think sometimes when you are in corporate, sometimes you can't necessarily bring your full self or people you are. And so now when you have that choice, it's like, well, who am I? And I like that because I think again, when you look at what's happening trend wise, you feel like, do I need to fit this mold in order to experience this or have that?
- [52:43]
Morgan
You know, you don't. I mean, I think the most successful people figure out who they are and then unapologetically show the world. Right. I mean, there was a time when I would never show up to a call with my curly hair, my little bangs, you know, like this. But I'm like, this is who I am. Right? And it's much easier for me to just be me than it is for me to try to conform to what I think you're perceiving me to be. So much more work, so much more energy, and that's energy and mental load that I could be spending solving problems for my business or talking to new people and talking to entrepreneurs, like working on my book. So protect yourself by removing the mental load that you had to carry in a corporate environment. Like, don't get me wrong, that was part of survival, right? Was like understanding what the others would be willing to accept and what would be too scary for them. Too off putting, too distracting, where it's like you're missing My message. Because you're distracted. Because I changed my hair to braids today. Like, I understand that, and that is real. Okay. But you don't have that anymore, so you can let it go. The Internet, I mean, if there's anything that the Internet has taught us is that there is a little corner of the world and a little corner of the Internet that is unique for you. And the more that you lean into who you are naturally and what's effortless for you, the more you'll have the capacity to grow the business and make more money.
- [54:17]
Lashonda
Yeah. And I also look at different people, too, just from an inspirational standpoint and see how they're moving. And that also inspires me, too. Like when I think of someone like Kim Blackwell, for example, I'm like, oh, wow. Or Michelle G. Or, you know, I look at them and I'm like, I love how they're moving things. And, you know, they kind of go back and forth between corporate entrepreneurship and I like that.
- [54:42]
Esther
Yeah.
- [54:42]
Morgan
Kim Blackwell is a great example. PMM Agency. Kim is bold and in charge. Okay. She is courtside in Atlanta, head to toe Gucci. And she is advising people behind the scenes. Come on, Gucci. You know what I'm saying? And she's advising people in the boardroom on how they should invest their millions and millions of dollars of ad spend and media marketing spend. And she was able to build that business from scratch. Not because she conformed to the white male gaze. Right. She did what she needed to do in the right market. She's in Atlanta. Right. But Kim works with companies that do billions of dollars in revenue, helping them reach this customer. And they hire her over other agencies because they trust and know, because she's authentic to her lifestyle. She has the right connections, she has the right relationships, she has the right skill set. And she knows she's a generalist with a specialty expertise. Right. And she's developed that over many, many years of experience, just like you have. You just haven't figured out how to what you're elevator pitches yet. Yeah, that's what I want you to work on is like, I want you to get clear on your revenue target on a monthly basis. That's step one. Because working back from some arbitrary number of, like, I just want to make money, you know, it can be hard to do that. It feels too overwhelming. But when you start to say, okay, I need to make $10,000 a month, and then you say, okay, that $10,000 a month could be one client at 10,000. It could be two clients at five it could be three clients at 3,500. Then it starts to say, okay, well, what could I offer at those price points and who could I offer it to? And then it just starts to become a little bit more real. And then the second thing you need to decide is your positioning in your own space. You do this for a living, so I don't need to tell you about how to do positioning. Right. So are you going to be. I can do this for anyone. Like, I can solve this problem for any company. Or are you. I work really well with these three types of companies, and I can solve a lot of problems that you have.
- [56:55]
Esther
Okay.
- [56:56]
Morgan
One or the other.
- [56:57]
Lashonda
Yes.
- [56:58]
Morgan
And then your third thing is getting more specific with your go to market. So you start to attract those people and being so unapologetic about who you are. Like, you should be able to go live on LinkedIn and be like, hey, everybody, coffee with Lashana. This is what we're doing today. We're like, hey, everybody, I'm live at ces. These are the trends. I met this company. I saw this, I did this. Like, you don't need to be polished about it. You don't have to overthink it.
- [57:24]
Lashonda
Yeah, I'm so used to being polished. I get it.
- [57:28]
Morgan
It's okay. That's your reality. That's your truth today, and that's okay.
- [57:32]
Lashonda
Yeah. No, but I appreciate all this. You've helped me kind of. It's been swollen in my head that you actually gave me a couple of areas to really focus and target on. But I think the biggest part is just believing that I can do this and knowing that I more than enough incapable of doing this work and that I don't have to change who I am as a person to do this work.
- [57:55]
Morgan
That's right. You are literally to do someone's dream. You just got to go find them.
- [58:00]
Lashonda
Yes.
- [58:02]
Morgan
Thanks for listening to the Journey podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review and head to our Instagram and YouTube to leave a comment. I look forward to hearing how this podcast has made an impact on your own Journey.