← The Journey with Morgan DeBaun
The Journey with Morgan DeBaun
Power & Progress In Fashion with The Cut's Editor In Chief Lindsay Peoples
00:45:18
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- [00:00]
Morgan DeBaun
Hi friends, it's Morgan debann and I have some exciting news. My book, Rewrite youe Rules the Journey to Success in Less Time with More Freedom is now available for pre order. Pre orders are so important, not just for me as a first time author, but for the message of this book. Ordering this book helps amplify the message that more people can break free from the grind, rewrite their own rules in life, and live a rich, juicy life full of joy and empowerment. So if you resonate with any of the content that I put out over this last few years, this podcast, any of the stories I share on social, and you've been inspired by my work at Blavity or Afrotech, pre ordering is the best way to show your support and your gratitude for any of the work that I have done. Plus, you'll be the first to get your hands on the book when it launches next spring. And that will mean literally the world to me. So make sure you check out morgandebond.com to secure your copy and join me in this movement to create a life of freedom, abundance, and more importantly, to have the tools and the frameworks that you need to take control of your life. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Journey podcast. I'm so excited today because we have the incredible Lindsay Peoples here today. She is the editor in chief of the Cut, defying all of the odds. She was one of the youngest, actually the youngest editor in chief at Conde Nast when she was previously Team Vogue editor in chief. More importantly, I think Lindsay is someone who has had a very consistent work ethic and incredible taste and someone in a sea of people who are just duplicating one another in a little like giant echo chamber. I think someone who is a leader of conversations and trends and for me, one of the things that I've really admired from afar. We don't know each other, you guys, so you're going to hear us get to know each other a little bit better. So we've literally never met, which is chaos. That's probably more my fault than hers because I don't go anywhere. But like one of the things that I've admired is that so much so I think media has had a really challenging time. Like a lot of people don't trust the media, a lot of people don't trust the news. There is constant dialogue about what are facts and what are truth. Particularly because of how the political climate has like some ex president, you know, has like basically said things that makes people doubt, like, oh, what is fact? So in that world where publications are literally fighting for their lives. The cut has defied the odds and I think been a very consistent place regardless of political party. I would argue of truth for so many women specifically, but also just people who care about pop culture trends and being a part of the conversation. And every time I see the cuts pieces come out, one, you could, like, take away the brand name and I could tell you that it was the cut, which is very rare as well.
- [02:58]
Lindsay Peoples
That makes me happy.
- [02:59]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, that's how I feel because it feels very consistent, which, again, is not easy to do when I'm in a very tough business where margins can be challenging. And investing the time and energy required for that level of creativity and that level of branding is not something we should be taking for granted. And I say that owning a media company, you know, I don't think that people really understand what happens behind the scenes. So, anyways, I'm really excited to have you here today.
- [03:24]
Lindsay Peoples
Welcome. I'm equally as excited.
- [03:27]
Morgan DeBaun
Hey, everyone. I'm Morgan DeBaun, a passionate entrepreneur and life advisor. With the Journey podcast, you'll discover that success is about the destination. It's about the journey. I'm sharing stories of amazing people who've taken control of their lives. Join me on my own journey to discover the secret sauce behind reaching success with permission from no one else. So you just got back from Europe from, literally, Fashion Month. We had Nikki on the show a few weeks ago for the people listening last week for me. And so. So we talked a lot in that episode about, like, the business of fashion. And I was really curious from your perspective, even just in this last, like, year or two, how you've seen the fashion industry change or shift at all, if at all.
- [04:17]
Lindsay Peoples
I don't actually think it's shifted that much. I think that fashion is continuously one of these industries that just has no boundaries as far as, like, how creative and how transformative it can be. I think that a lot of times people believe it to be a very frivolous idea, an industry, and I think in some ways it can be right. Like, I think that fashion people sometimes can be incredibly unserious. And I remind myself of that all the time and very in their own heads and not in thinking of what is going on in the world and how that plays into what we are also participating in and what messages we're kind of passing down to trickle in to filter into other places. But at the same time, it is, like, very much run by the same people. It is very old school. It is very set in its ways and not nearly as progressive as I think that people believe it to be. And so a lot of times I think that it takes much longer to actually see formidable change. I think an easy one that I think of that I've been reporting on forever was always size inclusivity.
- [05:18]
Morgan DeBaun
Yes.
- [05:19]
Lindsay Peoples
And I remember like being one of the only reporters that would write about it that would like go to, you know, there's all. Obviously we have like your big fashion month that's during. For women's at least it's during February and September. But I remember going to all of the smaller like trade shows or like plus size Fashion Week or Curvy Con and all those other things and a lot of the other magazines being like, we're not reporting on that, we're not going there, we're not sending a writer there. But also that was such a big part of the stories of fashion. I would say in the past at least know five to 10 years of like, you know, seeing Precious and Ashley and Paloma and all these people. And now you rarely see a lot of size inclusive models on the Runway. So I, I don't actually think that we've made as much change as people want to say.
- [06:05]
Morgan DeBaun
I don't think so either. And I actually think that's kind of consistent across the board. I mean even from like a startup founder venture back perspective, like the numbers were trending up and then actually George Floyd and stuff happened and so they like sp spiked and now they've retreated. Even prior to the numbers before George Floyd and I think it's because people were kind of like trending to do the right thing because it was also good for business and it was good for consumers and it was good for like it is better business to have a wider target audience or to be finding startups in my case where people weren't finding startups. And then I think people felt like they got bullied. And by people, I mean white people felt like they got bullied. The powers that be into like caring when they actually didn give a. And now they're like, oh, nobody cares, I'm taking it off.
- [06:53]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah, we don't have to care. Yeah, 100%. 100%. And it, I mean I think so many of the motivations were obviously not rooted in authentic desire to make change. And so much of what hasn't changed is the infrastructure of fashion. So right. Things are the same.
- [07:08]
Morgan DeBaun
The power is the power that be. And how much in the fashion industry do you think the power is like genuinely centralized amongst like, if you were to be able to list, like. I'm not going to ask you to list it, but if you were to list, like, the things. Do you think that it's really centralized in a clear way?
- [07:22]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah, it is a hundred percent.
- [07:24]
Morgan DeBaun
What happens when those people die because they're, like, kind of all old. What's happening?
- [07:27]
Lindsay Peoples
Honestly, No. I think that a lot of it is centralized, but I also think that so much of this plays into generational wealth, which you've talked a ton about. I try to talk a lot about when young people ask me about starting out in the industry because it is so hard to get your foot in the door. And it still is. Like, I think that, you know, now there's so many companies that don't have internship programs or fellowship programs. It's incredibly expensive to live here, here in New York. Like, I don't even know why. It's insane. But if you want to work in magazines, you're usually here or maybe la, but, like, you're mainly here in New York. And I do think that a lot of it is that you really have to. The same doors are the same doors.
- [08:06]
Morgan DeBaun
I don't know. I feel the same way. It hasn't really changed. So let's transition a little bit. You know, actually, one thing that I just happened a couple weeks ago that I was going to. I had this in my mental note to ask you about, I was employing together a panel with Brandis from Harlem Fashion Row for Tech, which I'm so excited about. And so I reached out to a bunch of black designers, like, some of the top ones for all intents and purposes. And someone confidentially wrote me back. I'm not going to say it was, but they said, actually our business is struggling. So, like, we actually can't even afford to, like, come to Africa. And we were going to pay for their flight in a hotel and, like, you know, even a honorarium. And. And they were like, no. Like, our business is struggling so much. And in my head I'm like, your business is struggling. Like, you are so and so and so and so. Like, you're in, like, Nordstrom. Like, white people wear your stuff. Like, what are we talking about? Like, you should be fine.
- [08:55]
Lindsay Peoples
No. Yeah, you'd be surprised. I hear that every day.
- [08:59]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, I'm like, what's going on? Are they. Have they always been struggling? And it's just like, we now can just see the content more. So it looks like everybody's doing well. Or like, what do you think it is?
- [09:09]
Lindsay Peoples
Multiple things. So we've Been doing Black in Fashion Council that I run with my co founder, Sandrine Charles. We started, basically the idea came about when I worked at the Cut many, many years ago, the first time. And I did this piece interviewing hundreds of black people talking about like, what everyone feels about their place in fashion. And the article was called, like, what it's like to be black in fashion. And I think that a lot of that still feels true today, which makes me incredibly sad. And we basically ended up getting on a zoom with hundreds of people that were part of that piece during pandemic and talking about like, okay, so we all feel this way and this is genuinely how we all feel and we're very frustrated. What do we do with the power that we do have? And I remembered as being like, I don't have as much resources as other people. I don't have as much money. I'm too young, like, listing out all these reasons why I felt like I wasn't qualified to really help people in a bigger way. I remember talking with Bentham Hardison about it and she was like, look, you gotta do this, figure it out. And her exact quote was that, like, she was like, look, everybody starts a foundation to try to cure cancer. Nobody says, don't start a foundation. Like, everybody does it because you need to find a cure and you're going to have your own way of doing this. It's going to be different than other people. But like, if you can help four black designers, that's good enough. And I mean, we've done a lot of different things of job fairs and, you know, fellowship opportunities and trying to just help. We'll get emails from big brands being like, hey, we're looking for a creative director and we'll send them names. Like, anything that we can do, we will do. And I'm not taking a salary for this. Like, I have a big job. I'm just doing genuinely to help. But one of the things that we've done consistently is the showroom in February, September. And when I tell you that like a lot of it is it just takes so much money production wise to make a brand consistently be they need a lot of guidance as a designer in general, whether you're black or white or whatever, you need a lot of guidance as far as the curation of your brand, of how you're actually putting together the PDF, your mission statement, you know, who's your target audience, the pricing, like all of those things you get when you're part of an LVMH or when you're part of a big house. You get all of that guidance of what the brand is and the ethos and how you're going to market it and where you're going to sell and all of that. And so a lot of times we get a ton of brands emailing and saying we want to be part of the showroom. I'm more so on the curating of what brands are in the showroom. And so it is really difficult to find that kind of support that doesn't just fall off after one season.
- [11:43]
Morgan DeBaun
Right.
- [11:44]
Lindsay Peoples
You need a lot of money. You need a lot of press. We don't charge designers or have them other than just, like, show up and we can kind of help. And they set up for the week, and we set them up with some appointments with editors and buyers and different stakeholders. But it is difficult because even with that, it's like, we're only doing that twice a year. And so they need to be in front of these people and having the conversations constantly throughout the year. And when I tell you every single time we do the showroom and designers say, you know, I don't hear from so and so until it's Black History.
- [12:15]
Morgan DeBaun
Month, do you think there's anyone who's broken through the wall? Like, do you think there's any black designers that have.
- [12:21]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah.
- [12:21]
Morgan DeBaun
With their own. Not just creative directors of other houses?
- [12:25]
Lindsay Peoples
I think. I think it takes a while, but, yeah, I do think that it takes a while. And it also takes a lot of, I think, strategy of who's wearing the brand. But then also, those people need to be buying. You can't just be loaning. Actually, they have to be buying. Like, I think a lot of people assume, oh, I saw this celebrity wearing it. It's like they could be spending all of their money dressing the celebrity, and they're hoping that they're getting some impressions from it. But if they don't actually get sales, it doesn't actually matter.
- [12:51]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah. So for people who are just like everyday people, everyday millionaires, you know, doing their thing, I'm. I'm being aspirational for you guys. Everyday millionaires listening in, what should they be doing differently? Like, how could their spend help more black designers?
- [13:06]
Lindsay Peoples
I mean, I think very easily buying direct from the brand is always the thing because the money actually goes to them. So I think that that is always the case. You may have, like, a gala that you have to go to. Right. And so, like, it's for convenience purposes. It's obviously easy to, like, purchase from a Nordstrom retailer, et cetera, go there and get something. It does take more planning and time to email a black designer and say, hey, I have this gala in a month. This is my size. Would you have anything that I can purchase, etc. But obviously, it is worth it. I love supporting black designers as much as I can. I just wore Diotima to business of fashion gala in Paris. Like, it does take more effort because they're not sold as many places. It's not as easy to purchase, but it's obviously important, and you just have to be more intentional with your spending, which is the truth for most black brands, whether it's fashion or anything.
- [13:56]
Morgan DeBaun
I don't think many people would, like, ever consider for the average person to email or DM a designer. Like, I don't know that. That's like, a train of not at all, Lindsay. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't think I've ever. I've had designers reach out to me and say, like, hey, I would love to, like, gift you this. You have aphor coming up. Like, can I. Oh, absolutely. You know, But I personally have never been like, hey, Sergio, you could be.
- [14:21]
Lindsay Peoples
A private client, though. It's not like you're saying, oh, I need to spend. I'm not even saying that you would be spending thousands of dollars.
- [14:28]
Morgan DeBaun
Like, it's no different than me buying my llc, you know?
- [14:31]
Lindsay Peoples
Exactly. Yeah.
- [14:33]
Morgan DeBaun
I just don't think that it's something that is a part of our normal culture of buying. And so I don't know that that's something that people, like, I've never even thought of. Like, oh, let me just, like, reach out to the designer and say, hey, do you have anything? If not, like, something's coming up. Can we work on something?
- [14:46]
Lindsay Peoples
Totally. I mean, hanifa is great for that. Dio teammate Christopher John Rogers. I can go down the list.
- [14:53]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, no, you don't have to. We'll put the list. They're in your council. That's the beauty of it. Okay, so super interesting switching gears a little bit. To you as a person, your life looks so glamorous. I mean, just like, yes, it does. It looks glamorous to me. So tell me, what are the things that you do that you're like, I'm obsessed with this, and I love this part of my life. I wake up every day and I say, pinch me.
- [15:19]
Lindsay Peoples
Oh. I mean, so much of this journey has been pinch me. Like, I love. I love what I do, but I make really conscious efforts to remind myself that it's not who I am. This is one Facet of who I am. And I think it's like strange when you get into these kinds of roles at a really young age because people fawn over it in a way that I will never understand, but probably because I'm just in it because I genuinely love it. I'm not doing it for the title. I also just. I never cared about it in that way of wanting to like, have a big role. To me, it always looks like I just need to be able to make the kind of work that I feel like I've been called to do. And so that does always feel pinch me. Like, to be able to tell stories and make things that I feel like are worthy of the words on the page is always a privilege. And that changes people's lives. And I think that even if it's something, you know, style related, people may write it off. But a lot of times, you know, the choices in which you make of how you get dressed or what you choose choose to wear, how you choose to present yourself is part of a story. Right. But I love that also at the cut. I mean, so much of what we do is also about abortion rights and everything we cover everything. And so that always does feel pinch me. But no, it is not glamorous. I think that that's it.
- [16:34]
Morgan DeBaun
And what are the things that you're like, okay, this is the unglamorous part that y'all really have no idea about, that you think that you're like, nah, I'll be happy when this season's over.
- [16:45]
Lindsay Peoples
I mean, probably my least favorite part is that. And you can relate to this. When you're running a business, there are certain things that you, like, want to be able to tell people and that you cannot because for the sake of business, you're just like, this is not the information that people need to know or understand. And a lot of times I want to be in defense of something or someone and I cannot. And that really bothers me because I'm just so midwestern in that way where I'm like, just don't think the worst. Like, just like, give me the benefit of a doubt a little bit. And it bothers. That does get to me a lot. And I think, yeah, like, you give up a lot of your privacy in these roles. And I think a lot of people glamorize that of like, oh, you get to go to this thing and do this thing, etc. But it. You don't get to really do anything quietly anymore. And whether that's like succeed or fail, like people are Watching you, and you have to be aware of that at all times, which I don't actually find enjoyable.
- [17:43]
Morgan DeBaun
So I think that's interesting that you feel like you don't have the grace of privacy. I feel like you're relatively private. You don't have a TikTok.
- [17:53]
Lindsay Peoples
Selectively just like. No, I. You know what? I wanted to do one. And then I was like, this is going to. Because I actually, like. I enjoy having fun with it. I would love to show people the behind the scenes. There's. There's actually a lot. So many things that I think would actually be enjoyable to show people of. The process of making a magazine is still so fascinating to me. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like the Internet is a little too cynical for it, and I just wouldn't be able to handle that personally.
- [18:21]
Morgan DeBaun
No, I feel it. I just went viral with the thing I said about Alex Cooper, like, kind of defending her. Yeah. People went nuts. Nuts. And I was like, the one time I defend a white woman, y'all want to be mad at me? Like, come on.
- [18:40]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah, it's a. It's a bit. I started that video. I didn't finish it, but I was.
- [18:44]
Morgan DeBaun
I mean, it wasn't really that profound. I just was like, you know, anyways, it's not the point. It's not about Oscar. The point is I think that. Yeah, I mean, I do think that when you start to share more, then it just opens up for more dialogue and things that just like, you know, I'm not really looking for feedback. I'm just putting totally.
- [19:01]
Lindsay Peoples
And I like, you know, I don't have a problem with being vulnerable or talking about anything in my personal life or anything like that. But I think that people then start to equate, like, we'll write a story about something, but that's not. It may not have anything to do with me. Like, that's just a story that I'm very interested in, but that doesn't mean it's my story. Yeah. And, you know, the cut is not Lindsay peoples.com and so I think giving people that boundary sometimes, because a good example is like, you know, I read the comments, a lot of what people say online on our site and also the Cut Instagram. And I can tell, you know, if a person actually hasn't read the story and they're just reading the headline and whatever, which I will leave that there. But, you know, sometimes it bums me out because I'm like, if you just read the story, you would actually just.
- [19:46]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah.
- [19:47]
Lindsay Peoples
Did the Commentary. And sometimes I want to jump in, and sometimes I do jump in, because I will go there.
- [19:52]
Morgan DeBaun
But you go in the comments and.
- [19:53]
Lindsay Peoples
Respond, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like it's out of hand. And it's just. It. When we get to a point of disrespect, I don't.
- [20:00]
Morgan DeBaun
I'm not. Does your team ever say, like, hey, you're gonna jump in these comments or.
- [20:06]
Lindsay Peoples
No, because they know I will. I'm. I'm very quick to be like, everyone needs to lower their tone. This is not how we speak. Please don't.
- [20:14]
Morgan DeBaun
I had a no Twitter role for a while at my company. I was like, do not.
- [20:18]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah.
- [20:18]
Morgan DeBaun
Bond to people on Twitter defending the company, because you're just fueling the fire. Totally.
- [20:23]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah. And I think that that really is what it is. Like, you know, I will remind myself, like, okay, you know, this is the cuts Instagram or the cuts voice. So, like, let me not jump in sometimes. I will. And, like, very respectfully. But, yeah, they come to my page. Different voice, for sure.
- [20:35]
Morgan DeBaun
Oh, yeah, you come over here.
- [20:37]
Lindsay Peoples
Come over here. Not different.
- [20:39]
Morgan DeBaun
Yes, exactly. No, I definitely agree with you that, like, sometimes being the boss means that the prime from St. Louis, I'm also very Midwestern. Like, there's things that I want to just, like, yell and just be like, I'm rooting for you. I'm rooting for you so hard right now. But literally, as the CEO, this is unacceptable.
- [21:01]
Lindsay Peoples
Yes, completely. Completely. And people forget this is a business. Like I say all the time, I'm like, this is not a nonprofit. This is a business. What are you doing?
- [21:10]
Morgan DeBaun
Literally, what are you doing? Like, I had one employee. They were on social. They were talking about how, like, they were like, we work remotely. And they were talking about on their social. About, like, all the things they do with their working remotely while they're supposed to be working. And in my head, I'm like, post this. Like, like, why would you post this?
- [21:28]
Lindsay Peoples
Because inside thought, don't.
- [21:30]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, why would you post this? You know, your manager. I'm not even your manager. I'm your manager's manager.
- [21:34]
Lindsay Peoples
Right. So, like, see it.
- [21:37]
Morgan DeBaun
Your manager is going to see this. And if you think they're not going to be like, oh, well, that person has more time, just at a bare minimum. Oh, that person clearly has more time and can carry more work. Or like, oh, this person is sitting around on a yacht right now. Because I can see them on the yacht, which I'm not even mad at. Work remotely on a yacht. That ain't My business.
- [21:55]
Lindsay Peoples
That sounds great. I haven't done that before.
- [21:58]
Morgan DeBaun
Sounds ideal to me. We have the wrong job for that.
- [22:03]
Lindsay Peoples
Invite me next time, whoever this is, invite me. Yeah.
- [22:06]
Morgan DeBaun
I'm like, go, go ahead, sis. But yeah, I think that people underestimate and to be fair, we have the position of power. So like, why would they think about like totally our problems? It's like crying little bosses and it's like. I mean, no, but a little.
- [22:22]
Lindsay Peoples
A little. Yeah, A little empathy. Something. Yeah.
- [22:26]
Morgan DeBaun
You know, we had to do a reduction of forest and I had been warning people for months. I'm like, hey, this business is not performing. Hey, we're overspending. Hey, we need to cut over here. Hey, we need to cut over. For months I was, I shared numbers with them. So transparent. The day came and people were shocked. We're shocked.
- [22:46]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah. This always happens. This always happens though.
- [22:52]
Morgan DeBaun
I'm like, you weren't secretly going to get another job. I was warning you.
- [22:59]
Lindsay Peoples
I just. I also think that there's so much going on that a lot of times it takes so much communication as managers, as leaders to really get people to understand what you're saying nowadays too.
- [23:11]
Morgan DeBaun
So I don't think people want to understand. I think a lot of people don't want to think that much about society, the market trends, AI global warming. I actually think that people are trying to avoid because it is overwhelming. How do you guys manage that given what you do?
- [23:31]
Lindsay Peoples
I mean, I think some of it can be overwhelming, but I also feel like people use as an excuse to not engage. Right. And like, I think about this a lot of, you know, I'm often so jealous of people who can just pass by the news. I've always felt a, just as a black woman that like, I have a certain level of responsibility to understand what is going on in the world and to engage in that way. But also in running a publication, you have to consume all of these things. You have to understand all of these things. Right. Because we are, yes, writing about what is going on in the world and then also in the process of creating our own news cycle, then so much of the cut is, you know, my mandate. When I started, I was like, I want the cut to be the thing that's in your group chat. I want it to be the thing that you're sending to your girlfriends and saying like, have you read this? We need to talk about this. This is so crazy. This is so funny. I never thought about it in this way. And I think a lot of that is so much of the timing like, getting that timing right. And I think a lot of times people just feel thrown off by the timing of so much coming at you. And so I do feel like a lot of it is getting everyone not only on the train, but on the same pace on the train is really what is difficult nowadays.
- [24:39]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, I think so, too. It's like we all need to be consuming this message at the same time so that we can have an impact. And it's like, no, thank you. I would like to actually just watch Tick Tocks about puppies today. Thank you.
- [24:53]
Lindsay Peoples
I mean, same. But that's not my life.
- [24:55]
Morgan DeBaun
No, that's not our life at all. I was up watching everything about Hurricane Milton lessons.
- [24:59]
Lindsay Peoples
Same.
- [24:59]
Morgan DeBaun
It's just terrible. Terrible. So you mentioned, and you just said this a couple of minutes ago. You said, you know, you're an open book. And you also said that you try to remember that the role that you have, the career that you have, the position that you have, is not you, the person. Has that always been the case for you?
- [25:18]
Lindsay Peoples
No, I think that my faith has always been a really big part of a driving faith of just who I am, but also how I move. And I think that it is just changed a lot of the ways in which that I am trying to be a woman in the world. When I became editor in chief of Teen Vogue, I think I just turned 26, I believe. Honestly, I don't remember at this point. And I felt very excited, but I just remember feeling like I just never thought I would get that job. I just never thought that I would become an editor in chief. I'd had a lot of conversations with people in my career. And to this day, even before I got this job of saying, like, you know, if I got into a leadership role, I'm not going to change. And letting people understand that, like, I'm not going to get into the meeting and people say something crazy and me not speak up. That's just not how I was raised. It's not the person that I am. And I would rather not have the opportunity. I'd rather people just understand, really, like, who they are saying yes to, then think that, like, this is a great public move for us, but then behind the scenes, she's just going to do some different things. And so I feel like it was very hard for me when I was younger to understand that, like, I have to put my feet to the fire on certain things that I feel very strongly about, but also that, like, I have to preserve my energy to make the work that I'm really Called to do. And a lot of that has been like, really? I have retired from people pleasing officially.
- [26:44]
Morgan DeBaun
Amen.
- [26:46]
Lindsay Peoples
Shout out to the people that, you know, benefited from that. But it's over.
- [26:49]
Morgan DeBaun
And that's a tough one to break, man.
- [26:51]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah.
- [26:52]
Morgan DeBaun
Was it people pleasing or was it, like, conflict avoiding? Was it truly people pleasing?
- [26:56]
Lindsay Peoples
Truly people pleasing, Yeah. I don't mind conflict. That's like, whatever. Because I. I feel like I'm very empathetic. I want to hear both sides of what people have to say. I always have a conviction and discernment of what I really want to do, But I'm always open to whatever people want to say and open to the fact that I may be wrong. I'm never that person that is so sure of my rightness. I'm just sure of, like, the conviction of, here's the motivation and what I want to do and the intention of where I'm trying to get things going, at least. But I think that I muddled a lot of the identity of who I am with role. And just also, these jobs are. When I say, like, you know, you consume the news and all of that, it's also just consuming in your mind because you're constantly thinking about everything being a story, you know, like a regular dinner conversation. Is someone asking, like, what you're watching on television? For me, it's like, I've watched every Oscar nom thing a couple of months ago, but I'm watching it for work. I'm not really watching it for my own personal enjoyment. Right. And so a lot of the things that I do for fun, I'm a. I have to, like, plan it, schedule it. I have to put it down. Because I'm like, this is actually. These are things that I wouldn't naturally do. I don't like, I'm making time for them. But also they're things to turn my brain off. They're not things that everybody else is just doing for fun kind of thing. But I also feel like, you know, these industries are very fickle. And so a lot of the separation for me has been that, like, the talents and gifts that I have been given are mine, and they are not because of a role or. Yes, I'm grateful for doors being open and all of that, but they are mine whether I'm in this job or not. And that is something that I had to really get in me.
- [28:28]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, I'm similar in a lot of ways. I started blabbering when I was 24, and we were pretty successful pretty early on and wasn't without its own trials and tribulations. But at one point, I was the business. The business was me. Like, you could walk down the street and be like, hey, Blavity. And, like, I would turn around, you know, like, that was my identity. That was who I was. And the decoupling of, like, my career and my business with me, the person was very hard and very confusing for a lot of people. Like, I remember when, like, I started posting on Instagram and, like, sharing my story more people were like, oh, my God, Blabity must be going under. And I'm like, no. Like, I am this person who is also CEO and founder.
- [29:09]
Lindsay Peoples
Yeah. Yeah, it's. I think it's hard for people to understand the difference a lot of times, but I also just think, you know, like, you can be going through things or want to process things, and you want to go through it and then be able to share later. And people not understand. Like, I just don't want to do this, like, right as I'm going through it on the Internet, but, like, at the same time, happy to chat with people about it. Like, it is hard. I don't think that people often understand. Especially I feel like with overachievers, which we both are, like, this I could do nonstop.
- [29:40]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah.
- [29:40]
Lindsay Peoples
Personal life stuff takes me so much longer.
- [29:43]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah. So I had a baby and like, weeks later, like, literally only weeks later, people are like, so what's your advice for new moms? I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I just got here.
- [29:54]
Lindsay Peoples
It hits very differently. So, like, this, even though I was very scared and all of that at a young age, I was very, like, I just hit the ground running. But then, yeah, like, I look back on, I got married at a young age. And then, right. Like, I think a year into this job, I had filed for divorce. And I was like, I should have done that sooner. Like, there were many personal life things that it took me much longer to develop. Whereas I feel like, career wise, I was so much quicker in understanding the work that I want to do. And so now I feel like I'm just in a different place where both are aligning at the same time.
- [30:29]
Morgan DeBaun
Totally. Are you single?
- [30:31]
Lindsay Peoples
I am.
- [30:33]
Morgan DeBaun
How single life treating you?
- [30:36]
Lindsay Peoples
I. Like, how is single life treating any black woman?
- [30:39]
Morgan DeBaun
I mean, I don't know. I've lived vicariously through everyone right now, but I feel like people are going on dates and getting wined and dined and meeting new people. Are you having fun?
- [30:49]
Lindsay Peoples
I'm having fun because I'm not like, yeah, I'm like, whatever God has for me has for me. Like, I'm not pressed about it. I think, you know, I've seen you talk about this a ton when you're in these kinds of roles and you have so much on you. Like, the desire for partnership, I think, is just in a different place where you're not like, yes, you can be looking for fun, but you're looking for the right kind of partnership. And so I'm very much like, if it's not the right thing, I don't need to be bothered.
- [31:16]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah, dating. And let me be explicit about this. For anybody who's like, what we talking about? When I was dating for fun, it's very different than dating to find my person.
- [31:25]
Lindsay Peoples
Correct? That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
- [31:27]
Morgan DeBaun
And in my 20s, I was like, I'm dating for fun. You know, I'm dating for interest. Like, I met so many incredible men. I learned so much from the men that I was dating. We experienced new things together. Like, that was a beautiful moment of growth for me because I also found things that I'm. Like, I would have never known that I liked men rubbing my feet until I had a man who rubbed my feet. Like, you know, like, there's just, like, random things that you just don't experience unless you personally, for me, date a bunch of different people. Particularly because I'm from St. Louis. Like, you know, I wasn't getting all types of diversity in St. Louis School of thought. I only ever dated black men. That's one thing I never went out of. But I would. I was open to it. I just never knew any love signals. I just couldn't. I'm like, oh, are you. Do you think I'm attractive? I. I don't know. I literally could not figure it out. So I was just like, never mind. I'm gonna stick with my boy.
- [32:15]
Lindsay Peoples
I don't think I figured it out either, to be honest with you. I don't think I have, but I feel like very. Like, I'm in the right place at the right time and that everything that has fallen away was purposeful. 100, totally.
- [32:27]
Morgan DeBaun
I completely agree with similarly. But, like, when I decided to switch and date for, oh, I want to find my person, Like, I'm ready for my next phase of life, and I want to experience life with someone else. And I've accomplished so much. Like, it's no fun to be in the Four Seasons alone. Like, it's no fun to be south of France by yourself. Like, nah, I'm good. You know, I wanted to I did that, you know, and I wanted to have somebody else that I could share my life with. That is a very different set of criteria and also required a different version of me, you know? So, yeah, single life era. Lindsay. So are you looking or are you more of like, just kicking it?
- [33:08]
Lindsay Peoples
I mean, I don't think I'm looking because I think the right thing will find me. Like, I'm open. That would be the way that I would put it.
- [33:15]
Morgan DeBaun
Okay. I feel that. I feel that. What advice would you give to ambitious women who are perhaps have outgrown their current situation and are thinking through, like, their next phase of life? Because I also feel like there's a lot of women who are there where they also maybe got married young and things have changed.
- [33:39]
Lindsay Peoples
I think so much of my perspective now is that, like, I really thought that I could do everything on my own. And I feel like part of that messaging was just very. The girl boss energy of, like, you can do it. You can do everything. You can do all the things. And I understand that I'm capable and more than capable, but that doesn't mean that I should have to do everything on my own. And that doesn't mean that I should have to take everything on my own. And so I think a lot of my thinking used to be that, like, you know, I'm here to help and support, and that is, you know, my role and in helping other black women in the industry and in helping in the stories that I tell and helping my partner and helping this man and helping whatever. And I'll never forget one of my best friends, she said to me, she was like, I just don't think that you've experienced someone who delights in the joy of who you are and just being this amazing person, but also someone who. And a life where people are actually invested in supporting you, because you've always been the person supporting other people. And I think that a lot of times when you want to make a change, like, that really is the tension where you're like, okay, but, like, I can do this, and I can do this and actually kind of falling back and being like, but I need to let other people help me. I need to be in situations that are actually reciprocal and loving and intentional and also helping me. Because you're not always going to be able to fire in all the senders. You're not always going to be like, all these.
- [35:09]
Morgan DeBaun
You don't want to.
- [35:11]
Lindsay Peoples
Exactly. Exactly. I do not want to. And I realize that. And so I think that. That, you know, when you Hit that tension. Just understanding that, like, yes, that may mean that things shift and change. And that may mean that, like, a person that you were really close friends with may not want to be friends with you anymore. That may mean it. Like, your life may shift. That may mean that you're in a role that's, like, too demanding. But ultimately, I don't know, like, I want so badly for black women, for us to be in really sustainable but joyful and fulfilling and meaningful livelihoods and not always be the struggle narrative.
- [35:45]
Morgan DeBaun
I completely agree. Like, I recently wrote a book, it's coming out next spring, and it's called rewrite your rules. Because what I had to do was basically look and say, like, what were all the things that I was told or I believed because of, you know, growing up, how I grew up, or, you know, I went to a Catholic all girls school for high school. Like, you know, I was a very high achiever. And at one point it was like, I've checked all the boxes, I've done all the things that were expected of me. I've exceeded everybody's expectations. But, like, why, though? Yeah, you know, like, there's no, like, pat on the back. There was no golden star at the end of it. Like, what was left was still me having to wake up every morning and do the things. And I did not like that waking up in the morning and doing those things anymore. And so I really had to start to, like, rewrite how I was defining success. And I think for so much of my life, success was defined by being a high achiever and being very successful from a career school, student body president, like, all of the things. When now I'm like, nah, success is like, I, you know, feed my son dinner every night. Success is like, I went to Pilates two times this week. I made it like, employees that I like, and I pay on time every two weeks with a direct deposit success, you know, so, yeah, I think for a black woman, I just hope that we can all, like, change our own rules that we are defining.
- [37:15]
Lindsay Peoples
You know, I love that.
- [37:16]
Morgan DeBaun
What are some rules that you've rewritten for yourself?
- [37:19]
Lindsay Peoples
I don't know specific rules. But I think that I realize that I have been convinced about things that I believe to be steadfast and true that were just for a time being. It's been really nice to surrender a lot of those things. And it's been really freeing to let go of some of those things. You know, life is short, but can feel very long at the same time. And so a lot of times when you're in something or going through things, it can feel like this is just going to last forever. Is this going to be my life forever? Like, what? Like, where is this going? And I feel like I have lived so much life in the past. I would say, like, seven years has been like the craziest, probably seven years I've had and just like transitioning in so many ways. But I also feel like part of that has been that I had in my mind that there was a limit to how high or how far I was going to go. And not because I had. I mean, I think I had some lack of, you know, some insecurities and some of those things, but just in thinking that there was really no blueprint for me. Like, there are obviously a ton of black people in media and fashion, but there's not a ton of black women. A, there's a lot of black men, which is a very different experience. And they will tell you that firsthand. There's not a lot of black women. And then also, I think in the kind of work that I've always been interested in making, there just wasn't a lot of role models. I'm also super family oriented. I'm also just very chill. I have to go to these things for work, etc, but, like, this weekend I will be knitting. I will be reading my Kindle. Swear to God, that is. Those are my grand plans.
- [38:57]
Morgan DeBaun
Yes.
- [38:58]
Lindsay Peoples
And I don't care to, like, like, pretend or to be anything for anybody else. And I think a lot of the times when I had these rules set for myself, it was like, oh, you have to do it. Like this person or this personally went this far and realizing that, like, I am my own blueprint. Like, I gotta find my own way. And kind of rewriting that has been interesting.
- [39:18]
Morgan DeBaun
Yeah. Well, I'm excited for, you know, what you do next. There's been certainly a blueprint for editors and chiefs turning into personal brands and, you know, doing. Going the different route. And I'm excited to see the route that you create for yourself. And like, I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of women that look at that and say, oh, man, thank God somebody else did something else with this. Because it gives. It just creates more freedom for people, you know, so not that your. That's your responsibility, but it is something that is an outcome of you following your own passions and your own journey. So I'm excited for you and I'm so happy we met. There's an giant plane flying over, so if you guys can hear that actually, there's a helicopter. But thank you, Lindsay, for joining today. And I really am just, like, so thrilled at how you've been able to, like, build the cut into this next phase, and I'm just really excited to see what you do next.
- [40:12]
Lindsay Peoples
Thank you. I so appreciate it. This is so much fun.
- [40:14]
Morgan DeBaun
So fun. Easy peasy. All right, y'all, make sure you're subscribing to YouTube. My monthly vlog comes out soon. Two, make sure you guys are actually subscribing to the podcast. You're driving me nuts. I can see the data that you are downloading and not subscribing. And just why are you doing this to you, girl?
- [40:32]
Lindsay Peoples
Subscribe.
- [40:33]
Morgan DeBaun
Just subscribe.
- [40:34]
Lindsay Peoples
Help us out.
- [40:35]
Morgan DeBaun
Thank you. Have a great week. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Journey podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review and head to our Instagram and YouTube to leave a comment. I look forward to hearing how this podcast has made an impact on your own Journey.