Rebalancing After Burnout: Inside Jaclyn Johnson's Post-Exit Life

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rebalancing After Burnout: Inside Jaclyn Johnson’s Post-Exit Life"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Journey with Morgan DeBaun
• Host: Morgan DeBaun
• Guest: Jacqueline Johnson
• Episode: Rebalancing After Burnout: Inside Jaclyn Johnson’s Post-Exit Life
• Release Date: July 8, 2025

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1. Introduction

Morgan DeBaun welcomes her longtime friend and successful entrepreneur, Jacqueline Johnson, to discuss Jacqueline's recent acquisition buyback of her company, Create and Cultivate. Morgan sets the stage for an engaging conversation about business strategy, personal growth, and finding balance post-exit.

Notable Quote:

• Morgan (00:00): "This is going to be a little bit of a girl boss chat."

2. Business Journey: Acquisition and Buyback of Create and Cultivate

Jacqueline recounts the trajectory of Create and Cultivate, highlighting its impressive performance leading up to the COVID-19 pandemic. Initially, the company saw significant growth with $14 million in revenue and $4 million EBITDA in 2019. However, the pandemic brought unforeseen challenges, leading to a modest $9 million revenue and $3 million EBITDA by year's end.

Despite acquisition offers at a $40-50 million valuation, Jacqueline resisted the pressure, valuing the company's integrity and her personal stake as a bootstrap founder. Eventually, private equity acquired a majority stake, allowing Jacqueline to step back and focus on personal well-being.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (02:49): "I was the bottleneck for the business."

3. Personal Rebalancing: Overcoming Burnout and Identity Crisis

Post-acquisition, Jacqueline shares her struggle with burnout and the ensuing identity crisis after dedicating over a decade to her business. She describes the transition from a high-paced entrepreneurial lifestyle to a more relaxed and self-discovering phase, including activities like gardening, cooking, and taking courses.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (05:48): "It's a personal identity crisis. Like, you spend 10 plus years of your life waking up and doing something, and to wake up one day and not is a weird feeling."

4. New Ventures: Blueprint Mastermind and Cherub

Embracing her passion for mentoring, Jacqueline discusses launching Blueprint Mastermind, a group designed to support female entrepreneurs through more intimate and focused interactions. Additionally, she introduces her latest venture, Cherub, a double-sided marketplace connecting angel investors with entrepreneurs, simplifying the often cumbersome angel investing process.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (08:40): "We started Blueprint Mastermind. We work so well together. The women are amazing."

5. Angel Investing Explained

Jacqueline delves into the concept of angel investing, emphasizing its high-risk, high-reward nature. She explains Cherub's functionality, which streamlines connections between accredited investors and startups, fostering meaningful investments without the traditional barriers of cold emailing and limited deal flow.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (21:08): "It's a network return. It's also akin to, like, a luxury purchase."

6. Shifting Business Philosophy and Market Trends

Reflecting on the evolving landscape of media companies, Jacqueline discusses the shift from sponsorship-driven models to more sustainable, audience-driven revenue streams. She critiques the traditional private equity approach of "squeezing" businesses and advocates for a strategy that aligns with the company’s core values and talents.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (12:11): "We missed the concept of growing up with our audience, I think."

7. Lifestyle Changes and Personal Life

Jacqueline shares her approach to managing newfound wealth responsibly, focusing on investments in travel and real estate rather than frivolous expenditures. She recounts a memorable trip to Greece and Italy post-divorce, highlighting the importance of self-care and celebration of personal milestones.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (30:15): "I am living my best life. Like, I was in Rome for, like nine days. It was a music video. It was so, so fun."

8. Dating as a High-Powered Woman

Transitioning to her personal life, Jacqueline discusses the challenges of dating as a successful entrepreneur. She emphasizes the importance of balancing feminine and masculine energies, setting boundaries, and seeking partners who complement her ambitious and flexible lifestyle.

Notable Quote:

• Jacqueline (40:21): "Someone who is ambitious is really important to me. They have their own stuff going on, they have their own life."

9. Conclusion

Morgan and Jacqueline wrap up the episode by reflecting on the continuous nature of the entrepreneurial journey. They encourage listeners to embrace flexibility, seek balance, and recognize that exiting a business is not the end but a transition to new opportunities and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

• Morgan (46:51): "It's okay to run it back. Like, it's okay. Nothing has to be permanent."

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Key Takeaways:

• Resilience and Adaptability: Navigating business acquisitions requires emotional and strategic resilience.
• Work-Life Balance: Stepping back from business pressures is crucial for personal well-being and identity.
• Innovation in Angel Investing: Creating platforms like Cherub can democratize access to investment opportunities.
• Personal Growth: Embracing new ventures and personal interests fosters continuous growth beyond entrepreneurial success.
• Healthy Relationships: Setting boundaries and seeking complementary partnerships are vital for maintaining healthy personal relationships.

Listeners gain valuable insights into managing post-exit life, overcoming burnout, and exploring new business ventures, all while maintaining personal well-being and fostering meaningful connections.

Transcript

[Morgan Debon]

Welcome back to the Journey podcast. I'm your host, Morgan Debon, and I'm joined by the fabulous Jacqueline Johnson. We've been friends for a long time, and there's so many things going on in her life. So this is going to be a little bit of a girl boss chat. I don't even. Can we say girl boss? Is there too much stigma with the framing girl at this point?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Like, it's fine.

[Morgan Debon]

I need a new term. Okay. Anyways, we'll come back to that, but we're going to talk about all things business. Jacqueline had her incredible company Create and Cultivate acquired a few years back, and she recently bought it back. And I want to know all the tea. We talk a lot in this podcast about setting yourself up to be acquired and what that can look like. And oftentimes the guilt, the pain, the stress, and all the things that you don't expect. There's some negative stuff to being acquired. And, you know, I've acquired three businesses in the last, I don't know, 10 years. And we always go through with whoever we acquire, like, some sort of, like, regret, remorse. And I would actually say I think almost all of them would buy it back if they could, you know.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Interesting. I love that take.

[Morgan Debon]

So, you know, I'm just saying, yeah, they can't, but if they could, they would, you know?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. So I'm like, well, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Is that just because it looks good now? Because we fix it, but you never know. So we're gonna get into that today. I love it. And last but not least, Jaclyn lives an incredible life. At least from outside, looking at it looks like you have really found different ways to. To find joy and balance. And so we'll talk a little about that journey as well.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I love it. I can't wait. We have so much to catch up on.

[Morgan Debon]

Hey, everyone. I'm Morgan Debon, a passionate entrepreneur and life advisor. With the Journey podcast, you'll discover that success isn't about the destination. It's about the journey. I'm sharing stories of amazing people who've taken control of their lives. Join me on my own journey to discover the secret sauce behind reaching success. With permission from no one else.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Where.

[Morgan Debon]

Would you like to start?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Oh, my God. I mean, your call, your call.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, let's start with the news. Okay, so last week you announced that you bought back. Great. Cultivate. You have a new CEO, which you've been, like, talking and sharing her with us.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Marina.

[Morgan Debon]

Marina.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

I didn't know of her before, so I, you know, saw her through you. She looks lovely, so seems super smart. And then you just dropped like a giant bomb.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Truly like a bomb. But also, like, if you had told me two years ago, like, you're going to be buying your company back, I would have been like, no, no way. Absolutely no way. And yet here we are. So basically, just for context for the listeners, I had the company for like truly 100 years. I mean, I was like 10, 11 years, ish in to running, create and cultivate, completely bootstrapped, no venture funding at all. Completely self funded. You know, I would say 2019, crushing it. Like, I mean, I want like a sweatshirt that says like 2019 energy. Because I'm like, I miss it.

[Morgan Debon]

You. We were all set up. We were all set up for such an incredible 2020. I wanted to write like it was yesterday.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

The heyday. It really was the heyday. So ended 2019, you know, 4 million EBITDA, 14 million in revenue, 2020 Q1, $5 million quarter. And then we all. What happened.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, Covid.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Which for any entrepreneur, I think we're all kind of now experiencing the PTSD of what that year was because we all went into overdrive to save our businesses and, you know, figure out how to pivot. And luckily we actually did a really good job, I think, you know, we pivoted to digital really quickly. We're able to translate our audience, we're able to expand internationally, salvage sponsorship dollars. And so we ended the year, you know, surprisingly very well. 9 million revenue, like 3 million EBITDA. So, like, still for 2025, for literal events company, that's what we were.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And so, you know, obviously there was a bunch of people over the beginning of 2020, we had a lot of interest in acquisition from different buyers in, in the 40, $50 million valuation range. I was like, I'll see you in. I want a yacht. And then I'm like, we're going to, we're going to flatten the curve, everyone. We're going to flatten, though. We aren't. So after that, that was devastating. And then obviously off the table for any acquisitions. Of course, everyone came knocking for fire sales. Like, you know, it was. Everyone, like every big company tried to take advantage of that moment. And I was like, absolutely not. Like, we're going to sell and we are going to make money off this deal because, you know, as a bootstrap founder, you put all your money into the company.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And you kill yourself to make it.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. Your net worth is your company.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Exactly. And so basically, you know, ending the year like that. It was a great story. There was a lot more interest from the private equity side versus acquisition. And, you know, it was down to a few different people. And we ended up going with one firm and, you know, they took a majority stake. I still had a small amount of equity. They injected capital into the business, which it needed at that point. Brought on a new CEO who was wonderful. And I took a step back.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Which is what you do.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, all the way back.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

All the way back. Yeah. So I was on the board and then obviously still hosted the podcast, but was not involved in the day to day whatsoever, but was like supportive of obviously everything that was going on. But I needed it. I needed a break. Like, I, you know, had explained that to them. You know, I was exhausted, I was burnt out. I also was the bottleneck for the business.

[Morgan Debon]

You're solo founder, totally hard, and like.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

You become, you know, you know, where all the bodies are buried, you know, how to do everything in the company and there's no way to scale that. So, you know, I knew I needed to step back for the company to grow and build, and I did. I took a big step back. I got a house in Napa, I gardened, I worked out, I cooked, I took like Somalia courses. Like, I did all the like retiree life stuff. So weird to wake up and like, not have a million fires to put out. Not have a bunch of emails, like the Instagram likes drop, you know, whatever. But I was like, okay with it. But it is a personal identity crisis. Like, you spend 10 plus years of your life waking up and doing something, and to wake up one day and not is a weird feeling.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And to also discover who you are outside of that, like, what do I. Like, what do I like to do? How do I show up in the world now that I'm not this person that people know me as. But it's tricky, right? Because a lot of people didn't know that I had left. So I think there was this audience perception of like, she's still, still doing it and still running it.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, because you were still like, signal boosting it and like.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. Promoting it. Yeah. And it was just so funny because I'd get like these dms, like, hey, I'm outside, I'm the florist. Like, can you let me? And I'd be like, oh, I don't know, I'm not. It's not me anymore, you know, or like, I'm. I want a job. But like, you know, that perception is also blurred. So it's like this weird existence of living in the gray area in terms.

[Morgan Debon]

Of, like, how people see you versus.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Like, who you are, what you're doing. And also it's challenging, you know, so it's like, I started posting a lot about, like, this new life, which, like, you enjoyed, but everyone else was like, give us the business. Like, you're like, I'm on the other side. I'm on the other side. Yeah, exactly. But then that's weird, right? Because they're like, well, how do I show up? Like, what. What do people. You know, what's. It's interesting. So did that and then just kind of had a wild couple of years. Like, I got divorced. I was with someone for 10 years.

[Morgan Debon]

Wow.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So it was like 10 year business. 10 year, really? It was the end of an era in a lot of ways. So it was like kind of this weird rebirth, I guess, in a way of like, what do I want my life to look like? I'm 38 years old now. You know, I was 23 when I started my first company.

[Morgan Debon]

Wow.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Entrepreneurship is like a long journey.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And so to wake up and kind of be like, okay, I'm in this place, like, financially now where I'm. I'm good.

[Morgan Debon]

Do whatever you want.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Which is a different, you know, feeling than when you're bootstrapped, you know, struggling to build or hustling to build it and all those things. So I can do whatever I want. What does that look like? What lights me up? Like, what do I enjoy? And I started realizing, like, I really like working with founders and I really enjoy helping other founders secure funding. Learn more about fundraising, learning about selling businesses. Because it is kind of an insular, secret world where people don't share this information as freely.

[Morgan Debon]

No. The fact that you even dropped, like, your numbers, I was like, oh, we can do it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Because people are just. No, like us. They don't want to say the things, you know.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No, I'm proud of it. Like, I'm really proud of it. Like, we were like, I was a random person with an idea, and to, like, do that is crazy. Like, and I think it's like, unless you feel like you're running $1 billion business, you shouldn't be talking about numbers. But, like, no, be proud of yourself.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

That we were so profitable and self funded is insane. So it was great. So basically, now, on the other side of it, I started coaching a little bit. Like, you know, just by kind of accident, honestly, I was on an app called Intro and was doing these, like, you know, little 15 minute sessions and turned into this thing. And I really enjoyed it and ended up meeting Marina. Some arenas have been in the coaching space for a long time. Personal branding, all of that. Masterminds, that whole world, which I know nothing about. And she was basically like, you should do a mastermind. And I was like, no. I was like, you know, it feels like mlm, like, I don't looking in.

[Morgan Debon]

As, like, not real entrepreneurs.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So that's how we get real entrepreneurs.

[Morgan Debon]

We only.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I literally said that. I go, I don't know one person who's actually built a company who's done it. And she's like, well, I think that's what makes it interesting.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I said, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. I said, if I can find one other, like, really credible entrepreneur to do it with me, I'll do it. And so I call Allie Ali Webb from Drive by the Best. And I was like, do you want to do the singles? But she's like, I don't know. And I was like, let's just do it. Like, let's do it. And it's been so awesome. Like, we've had the best time. I don't think, like, whatever a mastermind is, I don't even know if we're that. But, like, we basically gotten together this group of women and started Blueprint Mastermind. We work so well together. Like, the women are amazing. I've enjoyed it so much because I think it's also what I realized in building Create and Cultivate is I was never in intimate groups. It was always thousands of people, always.

[Morgan Debon]

Hundreds of people right at the event.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I never got, like, I knew our community, but I never got to, like, know our community in a way where I'm like, oh, tell me about your business. How's it going? What are your struggles?

[Morgan Debon]

Right?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I just got so much insight into it. And I realized in running Blueprint, like, I kind of miss it, and I got an itch, but I never thought, like, anything about it. And long story short, you know, it was sort of the end of the year. There had been some interest in acquiring Create and Cultivate. There was conversations amongst the board and, like, what was kind of happening. And obviously the market was a little tricky, and it kind of came about naturally, like, when they were talking about the sale, because at first I was like, okay, who. Who is a good strategic. And like, align with now just a.

[Morgan Debon]

Level site because you sold to private equity, there's always going to be some sort of resale yeah. So second, just second. Just for everyone's, you know, education, like when you private equity firms are designed to streamline a business, add value, squeeze out as much as they can, that could mean good or bad things, and then sell it for a higher than what they bought it as.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

It's not a holding keeps these.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Exactly. It's not a holding keepsies. And I think like, you know, with this specific business, I don't think they understood how valuable I was to the business. Like when we had like gone through that.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And listen, like I tried to stay for a little bit because you're like, I don't want to let go.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But honestly it was like one of those things where I was like, you know, I'd love to have a seat at the table if we're going to talk about selling. And at first everyone's like, what the hell are we talking about? And I was like, listen, like no one else does this business better than I can. Like, I understand it and I see it. And I think I also realized like I was like, we're in a different world now. Like when Crate and Cultivate launched, it was like Creighton cultivate, Refinery 29, you know, all like the media powerhouses, everybody was winning. Exactly. And then you see this shift to personality driven contents like Goop Gwyneth Paltrow, girlboss, Sophia Moroso. Then you see it even more so on TikTok, you know, and now everything. Alex Earls and now Unwell and call her daddy and. And it's like the talent's driving the brand. The brand's not driving the talent anymore. And so I think for creating Cultivate, you know, even though I think out of a lot of those companies that were around us, like we did really well, we had so much amazing talent, but we had no face, like in a way which was like me kind of, but like I was an actual operating CEO.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So I was like, I think we need to go back to like that talent LED lens and be more nimble, less media company. And that was sort of my philosophy on it. And obviously bringing, you know, fresh amazing blood like Marina and like whoever who are like again, different space but know how to monetize an audience because we had been so heavily reliant on sponsorship.

[Morgan Debon]

That's right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And that's was our bread and butter. And you know, it's like a great business but it's fickle.

[Morgan Debon]

It is, it's, you know, this, it's very fickle.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. So you, you win and you lose. Yeah, but, you know, who doesn't have to?

[Morgan Debon]

And you have to buy. They have to. You have to convince them Every year.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Every year.

[Morgan Debon]

So it's not like, oh, I have a multi year. Like, you're gonna always know. Every year we start at zero.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Every year you start at zero. And so, like, that's a tough business. But monetizing your audience is actually strong revenue and delivering on that recurring revenue. And that's something that, like, I never wanted to do with, create and cultivate because I was like, I want the audience to get as much information, have as much opportunity as possible. Like, we'll monetize that. But what I mistook was like, they actually want to spend and they want to spend on more on different types of experiences that are more granular, especially now.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And we had missed the concept of growing up with our audience, I think. And I look back now and I'm like, okay, here I am, you know, sold a business, bought a business, been on the venture side. Angel invested, Boba, all the sides of things. And then I realized being in the room, there's other women like me that, you know, want to educate themselves. So our new philosophy is around launch to legacy and helping female entrepreneurs through that journey. Because I don't think when I started creating hold debate, it was like I was in the same place as them. I was like, let's launch this. Let's do it. Like, everyone had that same launch energy, but we're past that now. And we have women, you know, ipoing, raising, you know, tons of venture da, da, da, da, whatever. It's like, oh, let's tell a different story. So. So that's the new focus. I love it. Damn. I did not know that was a lot. Circle. Circle of life.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, so blueprint Mastermind is now a part of it. That was a piece I didn't fully get. I was like, okay, what we doing? What we doing? That makes more sense. And I also, I think that is actually and processing in real time live, y'. All. So bear with me. But I do think that that is the future of these media companies. Agreed. You know, Blavity, we have both businesses. We have Afro Tech, which is consumer driven. We just bought a party brand. We're building a music festival built on top of that brand so we can have a more consumer focus with our event strategy instead of just sponsors.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

Now, I've always struggled with this idea of charging our consumer. Like, you know, I never wanted to charge for our content.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Com. Like, you know, Wikipedia, another the guardian they'll run like a contribution campaign, you know, like, I just don't. That just doesn't sit with me. But I do feel like there have been moments specifically for more narrow brands like 2190, which is for women, or Travel Noir, where we've tested. Should we teach people things? Should we try to sell like travel guides? And it's hard to do at scale. I mean, it's not very hard. It's not actually that easy, you know. But to your point, there is this whole separate industry that was existing while we were building, which is all these coaches and all the courses.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

World, whole world.

[Morgan Debon]

And I have, you know, work smart and I do coaching and advising through that. But it's cyclical, depending on how I'm feeling.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

That totally. It's. Yeah, it's a lot side project. Right.

[Morgan Debon]

But for those who do it full time, I mean it's an entire industry. It's huge. It's really huge. So. So I'm really excited to see kind of where you guys take it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, I'm excited as well. I think we have to start diversifying out revenue beyond the sponsorship. The one thing I will say that is continuing to perform and grow is all festivals because it's fan driven.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I think it's like we are content driven and education driven for women who want to uplevel and like. Yeah, we have celebrities and stuff. But like fans will spend like, and they won't even blink. I mean, look at Taylor Swift, Beyonce. I mean that's unbelievable.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So I do think it's like kind of trying to figure out the difference between like B2B to C to F to fan. Like how do we get to B?

[Morgan Debon]

But I think there's probably people who travel to go to all the great.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Totally. Yeah. There are fans of like crate and Cultivate too. It's just not at the fervor I think of like talent, you know, So I don't know. We'll see. We're going to get creative, we're going to figure it out. Luckily we're like nimble and like to do these kind of things now. So. Yeah, it's exciting.

[Morgan Debon]

So from a time allocation perspective, how are you allocating your time? Are you going back to the old school, Jacqueline, where you were busting your ass all day every day?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No, girl, absolutely.

[Morgan Debon]

So what's going on? Okay, walk me through it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So I am also the co founder of Cherub, which we can talk about.

[Morgan Debon]

But I better talk about it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. Yes, girl. No, it's going so well.

[Morgan Debon]

I'M excited.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I'm really excited. So basically I have co founder at that company. I have a CEO at Crate and Cultivate. And I was very upfront with both that. I said, listen, like, I can turn into a psycho.

[Morgan Debon]

You're intense.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No, I can go hard and I don't want to do that. But I like, I will give you like the best version of myself. Like I know what I'm really good at and what I want to be doing. Half the stuff I created I was doing, I didn't want to do. It's like you have to do it like you're wearing all the hats. So I. My roles are very specific at each different company. So I'm the chief creative officer at Crate and Cultivate. Like I know programming, talent, creative ideation, all. Yeah. Which is my favorite thing to do. I love it. I love events. I love it. I don't want to produce events, but I love events. So I'm like, we will handle that stuff. Off Marinas is admins, ops, you know, strategy, investors, all of that stuff. And then on the Cherub side, Angeline's engineering product, like all the, you know, again, operations, managing the team. And I am angel investor relations, marketing, events.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. Go to market.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, go to market. So they're awesome. I think level setting those expectations and knowing it's been really fun. This is both their first like owned ventures. So they're stoked and they're going in so hard, which I love to see. But I also feel like I'm like a coach in many ways. It's like, you know, been there, done that. And so there's a lot of value in that as well.

[Morgan Debon]

You don't have to work as hard.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So and I get to do as much as I want. I have my boundaries up, I know my limits. I'm like, you know, I want to cook meals, I want to work out, I want to, you know, have time to date. Like, you know, you have to make time for all that stuff. And I've tasted it now, so I'm like, I can't go back, you know, but I'm so excited about Cherub.

[Morgan Debon]

Tell us about Cherub.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yes. I'm so excited to share all of this stuff on Cherub. So Cherub is essentially a double sided marketplace connecting angel investors and entrepreneurs. Kind of like a dating app. We call it Raya for Deal Flow. But this was something that actually came about while kind of coaching and angel investing. Frankly. I have been angel investor for, I don't know, 10 years, 25 companies, blah, blah. And it's like a really shitty process on both ends. Right. Founders have to cold email people and ask them for money. It's like the worst.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And then if they say no, they're like, can you send it to your friends? Like it's just this nightmare scenario. Most people honestly invest in people they know or friends of friends or whatever. Right. Like that's typically how it goes. And most of the people investing Silicon Valley, Louisiana, you know, former mackenzie Bain, like, you know, it's all like, it's Silicon Valley.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. Extensions of.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It's extensions up. Or you're a founder in the founder space and you have those connections. And so it was interesting. I was hiking with Angeline and we've been friends for 15 plus years and she has an incredible story. She was at a YC backed company that was a corporate acquired by Open Door and then they went through an ipo. So she's had like the triple. Yeah. Exit made some really good money. And we were hiking and I was like, oh, I got this angel deal you might be interested in. I and I would forward stuff to me a little chain.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And she's like, oh my God, I would totally invest in that. And I was like, oh yeah, why didn't I think of you as like someone that would like, you know, angel invest? And she's like, yeah, I'm just. Because I'm not known. Like no one knows that. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, it's so interesting. I wonder how many people are out there like you.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No. Anyway, left, she sends me a text and like let's build a product because I think there's actually a lot. She did all this research and basically found out that less than 3% of accredited angel investors invest.

[Morgan Debon]

Interesting.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I don't think that's because they don't want to. I think it's because they don't have access to deal flow.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, we don't have time.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

We don't have the time. How would you, how do you know?

[Morgan Debon]

Look for deals?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Exactly. Yeah. Not go look for deals exactly.

[Morgan Debon]

Try to give you money.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I think the reality is, is like, and we joke that Cherub's in the business of warm intros, which is like worth so much because you go into it and it's a double opt and say hey, I'm Morgan, I'm looking to invest in travel companies or AI or women or whatever. And then on their end they're like, hey, we're looking for female angel investors.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And then you can Match based on, like, that criteria. So we'll give you, like, it's a 60% match, it's a 90% match.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

You say you're interested, they say you're interested. Boom, you guys have the conversation and do a deal.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

We've launched our Alpha three months ago. We've since then had over $1 million deployed to Cherub Brands, which is incredible.

[Morgan Debon]

Because from an angel perspective, I mean, that's a lot of deals. That's a lot of deals investing, like a million dollars. Literally, they're investing 1550, 100, maybe. 100?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, no, 100 we're seeing. It's awesome because we've seen some people Deploy upwards of 150 to 250k single check.

[Morgan Debon]

Really?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Single checks on the platform.

[Morgan Debon]

That's major.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And then 10 and 15 and stuff, which is great. And it's up to the founder to dictate their terms, like what's their lowest check. But we had one company, Nomadica Wines, raise $235,000 on the platform.

[Morgan Debon]

I almost. I almost pulled that one.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I love it.

[Morgan Debon]

So fun.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

They did so well.

[Morgan Debon]

So can you break down angel investing and what it means to be an accredited angel investor?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Totally. So basically, angel investing is when private individuals, sometimes family offices, sometimes like other things as well, but invest in private companies. And it's very risky. Oftentimes you don't see a return. Sometimes you do see a return.

[Morgan Debon]

Yep.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But we are kind of likening it to. And what we're seeing in the marketplaces, I think angel investing, I mean, curious your thoughts on this, but like 5 years ago was very specific to certain cities, whereas now I think it's way more mainstream.

[Morgan Debon]

I think that angel investing has become more popular and more talked about.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Exactly.

[Morgan Debon]

And I think part of it is because of COVID all the people who are like angel investors moved. Not everybody, but people moved and that redistributed some of the money. So, like, people like, I moved to Nashville, people moved to Austin, people to Seattle, people moved to Denver, whatever. So now you've got these wealthy pods of people who have discretionary income that know the potential of investing in something and it being worth $1 billion later and how you can take your 200k and how that can flip. But I actually don't even invest for the money return. I invest for the network.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Exactly. So this is what I was going to say. It's a network return. It's also akin to, like a luxury purchase. And that's kind of what we're thinking about and how we're kind of framing the tech behind it. You know, Angeline's role at Open Listings and Open Door was your home purchase, the biggest purchase you're going to make in your life. So how do you get people to convert on that online? Right. So that I think is so fascinating because now it's kind of like the voting with your dollars. It's like I'm investing in women owned businesses because I believe in them and great, if I make money back, awesome. But I think people want to wear angel investments like a badge and that's what we're kind of hoping for. And that's a little bit of the emotional pull is I think people want to, you know, again, I guess like if I go, Morgan, who are you invested in? Where can I find that information? Maybe your website. There's no platform to see that. Whereas like on Cherub you can have all your investments listed. I can follow you as an investor and say, oh, I'm just curious what she's like investing in and follow that in the same way you'd go on Zillow and look at houses when you're not buying because you're serious.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes, exactly. Not curious.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Nosy. Yes, nosy. I love it. So I think that's what we're tapping into from like an insight accredited investors. So this is sort of a guideline created by the government to protect people from making these types of investments. So typically I want to say you have to have an annual income, $250,000 as an individual. I think it's 350 as a couple combined. And then you could have like, it doesn't have to be necessarily salary could be like a net worth of like 2 million or 1 million. Basically it's the government saying like don't be risky. Like you have discretionary income in that way. So that's what accredited investors are.

[Morgan Debon]

That's great. And what are you seeing from like angel investors who are onboarding onto the platform? What are the kind of deals that get people's attention?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So it's really fascinating.

[Morgan Debon]

It's all that data.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It's always so much data. And so all of our angel investors get access to that. We also have pro accounts as well. Because it's fascinating, I will say and this, you know, partially probably because of my audience and community, but the million dollars that were deployed were deployed to bipoc founded or women owned businesses. And I think that's by nature of the fact that like we're the least funded people on the planet. So I think that makes A lot of sense. But I'm seeing CPG food and Bev is strong. Really. People are writing checks to food and Bev left and right.

[Morgan Debon]

Fascinating.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I know. Well, I think there's a lot of beauty on the platform. I think people are investing, but I think people are getting nervous because I think there's been a ton of acquisitions in that space already.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Where food. I think we need to sweep. We're going to see like a sweep in the larger.

[Morgan Debon]

They have to, they have to, they have to grow because we are all such more conscious consumers.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Totally.

[Morgan Debon]

Like I'm reading the back of everything right now. Like I used to be a Trader Joe's Stan and now I go to Trader Joe's and I'm like 30% of this. We actually should not even eat. Like it shouldn't even exist.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No. The things I ate in the 90s, like, it's crazy. So bad, so bad.

[Morgan Debon]

Like fruit roll ups. Like what are we doing?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Snack walls. I think about it all the time. Just like the diet culture of like they're like, we're just gonna put like, I don't know, fake aspartame and like everything. It's so bad. But I would say those deals also fintech people are still, you know, really interested in fintech products. I think there's a lot of cool solutions that are coming out in that way. So it's been really, really fascinating. We just did an SPV with Francis Valentine spv. So it's a special purpose vehicle and it's really popular. Basically what this means is if you're raising money as a company, you have a cap table. And that cap table lists all the different owners and ownership stakes in the business. So if you get a thousand investors at $5 each, like your cap table is a mess.

[Morgan Debon]

It's a nightmare. You do not do that.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It's a nightmare. So a way to kind of solve for that is an SPV where someone's going to create a company in an entity. Everyone invests in that entity and then their ownership in that entity breaks down into their investment into the larger company. So it's one thing on your cap table.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It also allows for unaccredited investors to invest as well. So you can write a smaller check and still feel part of the game in that way. Which they're growing more and more popular.

[Morgan Debon]

And there's platforms for that.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Sidecar.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, sidecar. One of our work smarters, Kim Lewis just did one. I think she's almost at a million dollars. But her SVB was Run by Arlen Hamilton. Right. So like sometimes you'll get like kind of celebrity investors who will set up a SPV and do it on your.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

GW does it a lot.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, really? What platform does she use or does she do it on her own?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I don't. Who knows?

[Morgan Debon]

She's done it for a bunch with us on the podcast.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Oh my God, girl.

[Morgan Debon]

What's going on?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Let's put it out there. No, I think she should do it.

[Morgan Debon]

I'm going to my Bobby era where you just put shit out there.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But it's on the pod. No, I love it. I feel like she's more and more into the investing side of things. I feel like it could be a really good fit. But yeah, I think it's fascinating. I think the thing that's so exciting is like we're seeing it happen in real time and we're proving out our thesis. I think the thing that's so interesting is 40% of the million were first time angel checks.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So it's working. They're getting deal flow. They would have never gotten their writing checks. They would have never written.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So we're proving out the concept in real time, which is exciting.

[Morgan Debon]

Let's go back to rebalancing your life because like, I think it's for me as someone who's still in it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

The idea of getting out of it and then going back to it in less than five years, I'm like, Stockholm syndrome. What's going on? Like, tell me how you mentally got back there.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, I think I am a type of person that thrives on ideation creation, you know, generating new ideas, new things, new businesses, all that stuff. I think I. In the step back that I took, I took a look at the things I really didn't love and I think part of it was I work myself into the ground and I didn't take any extra capital on. I did all myself. It was blood, sweat and tears and it was sacrificing weddings, birthdays, relationships, all of it, for years. And all for this one outcome I wanted, which I got.

[Morgan Debon]

You got it?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I got it. I did it. And then you're like, oh, wait, yes. It's amazing to be able to go to work every day. And it's not like with this giant, you know, that elephant on your chest of like, I gotta sell this thing, I gotta make it happen. This is all, all I'm doing is for this thing.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It's different. Yeah, it's different. And it's heavy though. When you have shareholders, investors, like, all that stuff, I mean, it weighs on you. But, like, I think for me, I come at it with such a different mindset, and I know what I want. I don't want. I don't want to run teams. Like, I've made that very. Like, I don't want to do it. I'm good.

[Morgan Debon]

I understand. Yeah, I overstand.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, you overstand. It's tough. It's tough.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I think most founders are not great managers.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, it's hard to skill.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It's a hard skill because you're just so used to doing it all yourself. It's challenging to pass down that information and create those systems and processes because you're just running at a thousand miles an hour.

[Morgan Debon]

Absolutely.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

So, you know, luckily, like, again, both people are just, like, have come from corporate and have the systems and processes, you know, and I was 22 when I started my first company, so I was like, we go to Google Drive to drop off, then you text me. So they have that dialed, which is awesome. But I think for me, the boundaries are. I think it's twofold. One is that I missed it, and I missed parts of it, and when I came back, I was very specific about the parts I wanted to be part of. And two is, like, I think I'd be lonely if I wasn't doing it, to be totally honest.

[Morgan Debon]

You have a community.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, it's like, I miss that. Like, I miss community. I miss, you know, meeting people. Like, you know, I think it can be isolating when you're not doing anything. And, like, I think I had a lot of fun, and I took a lot. I was like, but you can only go to Europe so many times, you know? And then you're like, what a flex.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, we got to talk about. We got to talk about the money for a little bit.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

So when the money hit your bank account, what was, like, the most frivolous thing you bought? Besides a winery?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No, I mean. I mean, truly, that is. I always tell people this. I was like, I just spend money on travel and real estate. Like, truly. Like, I think, honestly, the Napa house was, like, a huge flex. Like, it was a flex. It's like a gigantic. I mean, it's a beautiful. It's like, garden. Six acres. It's on a vineyard. It's. It's heaven.

[Morgan Debon]

It's delicious.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It's Nancy Meyer's life. Yeah. I'm, like, loving it. It's awesome. So I think that was, like, a huge, huge flex. I think I've always been really smart about real estate, though. And, like, the way I did it.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But like, I remember my banker being like, you can make a fuck off real estate purchase. Yeah, exactly. Because I'm always like. I'm like, well, if I sell it in front of, you know, like, doing all the things I do.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. The rationalization.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, you can make a off purchase.

[Morgan Debon]

I love that.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. And then what trip did you go on that was like, oh, yeah, this is. I don't know if I saw this trip on it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Oh, my God. No, you. It was on Instagram. So I went on a divorce boon. So basically, new thing. I had had this trip booked with my ex to go to Greece and Italy and whatever. And it was booked, like, tickets booked, everything booked.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And, you know, after everything had happened, I was like, okay, I'm going to.

[Morgan Debon]

Go by still Go.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. All my girlfriends were like, no, you're not. We're coming with. They all rallied, like, so I had a different girlfriend in each destination. I was gone for three weeks.

[Morgan Debon]

Let's go.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Living my best life. Like, I was in Rome for, like nine days. I was like, yeah, it was. We went to Greece and Santorini and private boats. Like, we. It was a music video. It was so, so fun. Yeah. We had the best time.

[Morgan Debon]

That's awesome.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. Those are really good.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

And then what about daily lifestyle things? What are things that now you spend on without the guilt that impact your daily life?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I think. And I've heard you talk about this on the podcast before, like, really investing in things that free up your time. Like, instead of buying a Birkin, like, I would rather have someone that, like, helps me organize my life or, like, takes care of my house or whatever it might be. Yeah. All those different things. Because it's like, that's the things that weighs you down. I think, like, the bougiest thing I probably have is, like, an estate manager vibes.

[Morgan Debon]

Let's go.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Whoa. I. I love it so much. I remember interviewing Martha Stewart and I was like, you know, what are you most proud of? And she's like, all seven of my houses. I was like, God bless, you know, I was like, yes, girl. I love it.

[Morgan Debon]

We aspired that level. Ridiculous.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

It was so amazing. I was like, listen, love this flex for you. But, yeah, I think that because it's hard to take care of everything, especially now that I'm all alone.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

That was a whole new world. Going from, like, having a partner to do everything with, from, like, house duties or this to like, this is all on me. So getting help on that stuff is definitely.

[Morgan Debon]

An estate manager is kind of like a house manager, but for the, for the multitude of spaces.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Exactly. And like I'm gone in back and forth and it's like houses always have problems to take care of. Like all that stuff.

[Morgan Debon]

So good. I want us to talk more as women about the things and the people we have in our lives because I think so often people look and say, she's got it all together. She's just doing it. Like this is just a fabulous outfit. And it's like she might have a stylist put this out for her most fabulous house. She has someone manage it. Like it's not just. No, you know, we're not just brute forcing everything.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No, no. I mean you can, you'll burn out.

[Morgan Debon]

We did.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, we did. Did that for a long time. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Move on, you know, and my hope is that whatever that means for whoever watching this can be just small. Even if it's laundry pickup, you know, if it's meal delivery, like it can be as small as possible, but like it doesn't have to be so hard.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. And we, but we do that to ourselves.

[Morgan Debon]

We do.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, we do.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay. So you're dating.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Dating. Yes.

[Morgan Debon]

It's such a weird, high powered woman. Doesn't need a man for anything. Rough, rough, rough.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I need to hear about your story too because I think, well, so what's interesting is like I would say the most interesting part about dating and being 38 or whatever is like the younger men come out of the wood work. I was like so confused. I was like, come on. Okay. I mean, I'm here for that late 20s something. I'm like, okay, you're late 20s. I know, girl, tell me about it.

[Morgan Debon]

That's a little. That's so young.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But here's the difference and here's what I'll say. They don't have the hang ups.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. They're not worried about not.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

They're not worried about anything. They're so inspired, they're loving it. So it's a different energy. And so I know I'm, you know, I'm tasting all the, the rainbow here, but it's really fascinating.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

They're not intimidated. They could give. They're so impressed. They're so excited, they're eager. Same age range, rough comparing, comparing insecurities, you know, and again, not everyone but like tough.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, tough.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Older, better. Because they're like, well, you know, I've been there, done that. Like you're yeah, yeah, totally cute. Fine. But the financials, it's rough. Like, you know, it definitely takes a very secure, confident person to be with someone like us.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And I think that's really hard to find. So tell me your ways.

[Morgan Debon]

I mean, one, I had to leave LA.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. 100%. It's not happening here.

[Morgan Debon]

And I had to tone down different parts of my energy.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, I'm very masculine at work. We have to.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

We're talking about it.

[Morgan Debon]

We had to be masculine, you know, and we had to be masculine to get to where we are today, to run teams, to have the resiliency, the grit, the just, like, the kind of. All right, I got it. Energy. Like, I got it. Because if we didn't have it, nobody else had to do it. Let's do it. So.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But that.

[Morgan Debon]

The doing is actually, in my opinion, a very masculine energy. Totally doing all the things. I can do it. I can open the door. I can find my own house.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I can do it all.

[Morgan Debon]

I don't need anything. I got it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

That's not very enticing.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No.

[Morgan Debon]

For a partnership at.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No.

[Morgan Debon]

So I had to unlearn, like, to do less. Like, basically just. That was my mantra. Just do less. Like, literally, just do less. This in my personal life.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. And so I had to create these different rituals and things that I did to, like, unwind and get into a space as I was dating so that I could do less. My do less was still on 10 for them.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. No, you were normal. Like, it made me normal.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. Even baseline. I know. So, like, my ritual was, like, okay, Josh was about to come over. I would, like, light all the candles in the house. I would, like, take a bath before. Like, I would put on pajamas, like, something super comfy. I would just, like, transition into just a softer space so that I was just less, like, hardcore.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yes. You know, this is so fascinating to me. So one of the girls in the Blueprint, actually, her name's Chica, she is a feminine energy coach. Anyway, we started talking about it, and I had no idea even what that, like, was or whatever. And she was like, you've just gotten out of your masculine. I can tell. And it was interesting because I feel like the past year, I was super feminine. I was working out, getting my nails done. I had time. I was like. I would get my hair done. I would show shop. I would, like, think about the outfits. I was gonna. We're not, like, roll out of bed, like, adrenaline. Like. Like such a psycho, you know? And really, like, I love to Cooking, like, you know, doing all my little things. I love doing it. And I felt different and the energy was chiller and all these things. What I'll say is now that I've started to ramp up, you feel that creep back in. And it is. I know. So I'm being, I'm really paying attention to it because it's hard to turn that down when all day you're like, yes, no, no, yes. Move this, that Gotta go. Yeah, gotta go, gotta go. And then you have to go be like.

[Morgan Debon]

Be one with the wind. If you guys aren't watching this, if you're listening to this, go to YouTube so you can see my hand motions. But like, seriously, I think I actually hired a feminine energy coach and I went through the process. Through the process. Because I didn't know. I didn't know totally. But I did know that the type of man that I was to.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Able.

[Morgan Debon]

Attracted to and the type of man that I was attracting were different.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Interesting.

[Morgan Debon]

And what I really wanted in my life was to not think as hard at home.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Like decision fatigue. Right now we're sitting in a house that we rented in LA because we decided to spend time in la. We're going back to Nashville. We've got to pack boxes and ship things and da, da. I'm like, I don't do any of it. I won't do any of it. Yeah, you got it and you're happy to have it. Yeah, that's the key is finding somebody who's happy to do the things that like, I'm like, I'm not interested in that. I don't care. I don't want to think about it. Like, I will take care of the baby. I will like do whatever. Yeah, it's fine. And I think that as high powered women, it can be hard to find someone and then let them.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Let them. Yeah, that's the key.

[Morgan Debon]

Do it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

So once you find them, if you don't let them, they're going to find someone else.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

They're going to. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Because they also want to provide value and they want to contribute to your life. And so if you're always doing everything, then what is their purpose? Yeah, many purpose.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, interesting. And so, yeah, I can see your brain.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I'm like, no, I knew. I know. I love that. I mean, I think it's so true because I think that's what gets conflated is like when you're too masculine and then they maybe are in their feminine. Like.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I've just then, oh, well, we can't.

[Morgan Debon]

Have a man in their feminine.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No.

[Morgan Debon]

That's no fun.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No fun.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. No.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And it's easy because sometimes you push them into it and it's like, yes. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

It's a cycle. I feel like it's an ebb and a flower, it's a ying and a yang, it's a back and forth. And I feel like for women who are listening to this, who are like, yes, I agree. Consider a feminine energy. Yeah, just Google it. Put it in YouTube, watch the videos, they're very woo woo. They're going to tell you to do really weird things like go get your nails done. Or like the fact that we're both wearing black right now is like very masculine.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, but we're doing a podcast and we're like, boss, we're in business mode. Right. But if we were, I wouldn't wear this.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

I would wear like lighter things, flowier things like, you know.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Oh my God, I'm so fascinated.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, so you're in your feminine.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yes. Well, I'm trying to be. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

I'm speaking it into existence for you. You're in your feminine era.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Love it.

[Morgan Debon]

And what are you looking for in this new phase of partnership?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, I think like, I mean everything's a learning. Right. Like looking back on it. But I think I need someone who. Well, my number one thing was. Makes me laugh. Like shit. So heavy. When you're running companies and if you don't have someone that you can just like laugh with, have fun. Yeah, I can have fun with. Number one.

[Morgan Debon]

It's giving 28.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, it's giving 28 year old energy.

[Morgan Debon]

No, like, got it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I love it.

[Morgan Debon]

What else?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I would say someone who is ambitious is like really important to me. Like they don't need to be financially on the level, but like they have ambition, they have their own stuff going on, they have their own life, they have friends, they're close to, their family. Like more value driven. I would say like, is really important to me than it was when I was dating in my late 20s and things like that.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I think also like someone who's open to like a kind of nomadic lifestyle, right. Of like living in LA or living in Napa or living elsewhere. And like being open to that kind of flexibility I would say is like important.

[Morgan Debon]

I dated a guy that had a normal nine to five and it was really difficult because I'm like, I just don't live that way.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, so I'm like, oh, you have like two weeks vacation for real, for Real.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, you can't work, like, literally, you can't work remotely. Like, oh, this is.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

That's. Oh, that's our. In general. Sorry.

[Morgan Debon]

He opted out, actually.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, I can't. I'm not gonna make the cut. Basically. I was like, you're not?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. You're not gonna make it. Yeah. Thank you for bowing out.

[Morgan Debon]

It's painful because you were cute, but.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, but it's. It's real. That's so real. So I would definitely say that. I think also, like, someone who is secure, like, I think that's the biggest thing too, and that that's hard to suss out.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, secure attachment style. Like by.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

True definition.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Secure attachment style, by true definition. Also secure with themselves. Like, is fine being, like, not a plus one, but, like a plus one sometimes. You know what I mean? And, like, is good in a room and, like, can be on his own and not feel like I'm like, babysitting.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Whatever.

[Morgan Debon]

That's important. Would you date someone who's divorced?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, definitely.

[Morgan Debon]

Kids?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Kids, definitely.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay, so, like, I'm wrong. The world is your oyster.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Do you want kids?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I always say it's very partner specific. I think I'm not the type of person that's like, oh, my God, I need to have kids no matter what. Like, I will make it happen and I need my partner to have kids. Tick tock. Like, I'm not like that at all.

[Morgan Debon]

Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I'm more like, oh, if like, we together are an amazing unit. Team, and we're like, it would be so amazing to both of us to have a child.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Then it's something I'm open to. But I'm also okay to go the other way.

[Morgan Debon]

Big on the team.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Big on the team.

[Morgan Debon]

Has to be on the co parenting.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

The co parenting has to be there too. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Two of us together. Because. Yeah. I'm not the person that's like, I need a kid to have a kid.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

You know, and there's nothing wrong with that. No.

[Morgan Debon]

I mean, I talk about on the podcast all the time. I was like, could have gone left, could have gone. Right.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Right. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, but what was important and the reason why it was a Heck yes. Was because it was a partnership.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. And I think that's how it should be.

[Morgan Debon]

So I'm so excited for you. I can't wait. It's exciting you have a public relations this time around.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I don't know. You know what's funny is I didn't feel like my relationship was that public. Like, I posted about. You think it was okay.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Okay. No, that's good to know. That's good to know. Because, you know, I mean, I guess.

[Morgan Debon]

There'S spectrums of public relationships, but you're not, like. You're not like a dating influencer, but, like, public. For.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

For. Yeah, he was tagged and on. Yeah. You know what's so funny? And I haven't told this to anyone, but, like, you'll appreciate this is that. And we're still friends. Like, I should say very amicable, very good friends. So we, you know, got divorced. I didn't announce it or anything because I just felt like it was like, so whatever. But, you know, we'd been divorced, I guess, for, like, I don't know, six months, seven months. And he started dating Kesha.

[Morgan Debon]

Oh, shit.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

And no, it's my favorite story. And then he posted the relationship with Kesha. So everyone just thought, I got dumped for ke. Do.

[Morgan Debon]

That's not.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I was like, could I have gotten.

[Morgan Debon]

A heads up on the plane?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I have gotten a heads up. But now we joke.

[Morgan Debon]

I love that.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. I literally was like, I need to be the cool ex wife. Okay.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, Kesha.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I know.

[Morgan Debon]

I mean, kind of cool.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

That was kind of cool. I mean, listen, I was happy for him. I was like, damn. Are they still together? No.

[Morgan Debon]

Okay.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But, yeah. But I was like, okay, you get cash a rebound.

[Morgan Debon]

You have some.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I'm out here fighting for my life on.

[Morgan Debon]

Fighting in these Napa streets, to be clear, out here.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Fighting for life on this gorgeous property.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

That's a version of rebound.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yes, Exactly. Exactly. Truly. Trips with your friends.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Like, fine. But no, I loved it. I thought it was so funny. But then everyone was just like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm. Yes, I'm fine.

[Morgan Debon]

Yes. I mean, I did have to double opt. And I was like, are you single?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Single? Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Because you're saying it, but you're not really saying it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No, I know. I tried to. Well, you know what was funny is.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, I actually got some pretty wild.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Dms because I didn't post it on the feed, but I did stories, and I got a few people that were, like. Were very disappointed.

[Morgan Debon]

Not the judgment.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

The judgment was real. A few people were like, damn, I thought you were someone who really had it all, or whatever. And I was sort of like that. Yeah. I mean, the Internet's a wild place. I don't take anything personally. Like, whatever. And most people were very, like, you know, sympathetic. But I think I was just sort of like, oh, wow, yeah. Yeah. I don't think I'll go crazy public on the next one. It just puts too much pressure on it. Unless I'm like six years in and then, like, sure, fine.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

But I think it puts too much pressure on the situation. And, yeah, I also don't want to be with someone who wants to be on the fe.

[Morgan Debon]

Right. That's a whole nother thing.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't post anything until it was like, oh, we're doing this forever.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Kind of thing. Because it's rough. Yeah, it's rough.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah. Early days and they're like, yeah, get out of here. Get out of here. Yeah, it's not your freaking party. Yeah, no, not for you. This. But I also, on the flip side, have dated a few people that are much larger, like, influencer type people than I am, which is also, like, a funny.

[Morgan Debon]

But that would be so interesting.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

I've never done that. Well, actually, not public figures. I've dated, like, athletes or whatever.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah, well, same. Same thing, kind of. But, yeah, it's interesting to be on that side.

[Morgan Debon]

Yeah, you're there.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Plus one. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

Not bad at it.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Not mad at it. Not mad at it. I'm a great plus one.

[Morgan Debon]

So listen, so anyone who is interested in Jackson.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I know. I'm like your brothers, your cousins. Throw secure.

[Morgan Debon]

You're secure, honey. Okay? Meet the criteria. Don't come here broke.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Don't come here broke. But you know what's funny is a few people, a few girls, like, I love the Crane cult because they, like, DM me. They're like, listen, my cousin's cute. Here's his Instagram. If you're interested, let me know, girl. I'm like, yes, thank you. That's the energy we want. Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

I'm excited for you. Well, thank you for sharing your journey with us today. This has been so fun, just catching up. Hopefully for the listeners, you guys learn more about angel investing and also, like, just know that the journey is never over. Like, especially for me as a founder, looking at you, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, okay. When you exit, if we ever exit, there's still other things. Like, it's not done. Like, there's no done, you know?

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Totally. It looks like whatever you want it to look like.

[Morgan Debon]

Right? And it's okay to run it back.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yep.

[Morgan Debon]

Like, it's okay. Nothing has to be permanent. Like, it takes a lot of courage to say, I'm going to run it back.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Yeah.

[Morgan Debon]

You know, So I appreciate you. I'm excited to see what, create, cultivate, does next.

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Thank you.

[Morgan Debon]

Bye all. Thanks for listening to the Journey podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a review and head to our Instagram and YouTube to leave a comment. I look forward to hearing how this podcast has made an impact on your own Journey.