A Casual Culinary Chat About Coconut Milk Cake with Sarah Marshall

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: A Casual Culinary Chat About Coconut Milk Cake with Sarah Marshall
Release Date: April 30, 2025
Host/Authors: John Becker, Megan Scott, Shannon Larson
Guest: Sarah Marshall

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Introduction

In this heartfelt and engaging episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast, hosts John Becker, Megan Scott, and Shannon Larson delve into a rich discussion about the evolution of The Joy of Cooking cookbook, its historical editions, and the beloved recipes that have stood the test of time. Special guest Sarah Marshall joins the conversation, adding her insights and personal anecdotes to the mix.

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Opening Conversations and Personal Anecdotes

The episode opens with the hosts sharing light-hearted banter about kitchen mishaps and personal cooking triumphs. Megan Scott humorously mentions her aversion to dish duty and her preference for blue cheese-stuffed olives as martini garnishes. John Becker shares his impatience with making dark roux, describing it as “Cajun napalm” (01:27), highlighting the intense nature of the process.

Notable Quote:

• John Becker (01:27): "It's kind of a tense time. I started feeling, like, pretty nervous about it because I started with Paul Prudhomme recipes, which have you making a roux at like medium high."

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Weekly Cooking Highlights

Shannon Larson discusses her recent culinary adventures, including making fresh pasta and grilling yakitori (02:08). She emphasizes the joy of hosting gatherings and preparing dishes that allow her to spend quality time with family and friends. Megan shares her and John’s recent gumbo experiment, incorporating potato salad—a nod to Chef Amethyst Gannaway’s suggestion—for added flavor and texture.

Notable Quote:

• Shannon Larson (03:25): "We're just gonna do the coconut milk cake cockayne because we talked about it so much today."

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Deep Dive into The Joy of Cooking History

The conversation transitions to a detailed exploration of the history of The Joy of Cooking. The hosts discuss the transition from Irma S. Rombauer to her daughter Marian Rombauer Becker’s stewardship of the cookbook. Marian’s 1963 edition introduced significant changes, aiming to make the book more encyclopedic and educational for home cooks. This edition included extensive sections on ingredients, techniques, and nutrition—marking a shift from Irma’s more eclectic and recipe-centric approach.

Notable Quotes:

• Megan Scott (21:07): "We've been hiring someone to transcribe everything or to type everything out. This is all wild."
• Jon Becker (25:11): "The dynamic has been the same ever since—marrying the expectations of older readers with the interests of younger cooks."

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Challenges and Transformations

The hosts recount the challenges Marian faced while revising the cookbook, including her battle with cancer and the publisher’s premature printing of the 1962 edition without her consent. Marian’s dedication and innovative methods, such as organizing recipes on index cards, are highlighted as pivotal in shaping the modern edition of the cookbook.

Notable Quote:

• Jon Becker (33:51): "Every time we've found even a little mistake, we're both like, I can't believe we let that get through."

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Recipe Focus: Coconut Milk Cake Cockayne

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the Coconut Milk Cake Cockayne, a favorite recipe from the 1963 and 1975 editions. Megan explains the modifications made in the 2019 edition to simplify the recipe by using dried coconut and canned coconut milk, adding more sugar for moisture, and substituting whipped egg whites with whole eggs for ease of preparation.

Notable Quotes:

• Megan Scott (20:00): "This is a lot. Getting the fresh coconut and then processing it so that you have not only fresh coconut, like grated coconut, but also the milk is so much work."
• Shannon Larson (04:34): "But it's been really fun. Like, we've just kind of enjoyed cooking. It's lighter later. And so after work, we feel like we just have more time to put our energy into it."

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Legacy and Personal Connections

The hosts reflect on Marian’s legacy and her influence on subsequent generations, including John and Megan. They discuss how The Joy of Cooking serves as a familial and communal touchstone, connecting multiple generations through shared recipes and memories. John shares his personal connection to Marian, feeling beholden to her dedication and vision for the cookbook.

Notable Quotes:

• Jon Becker (41:05): "That particular passage made me feel like I had a connection with Marian, and I actually felt like I was kind of being addressed by her."
• Megan Scott (27:54): "This edition is also really interesting because it came at a kind of crossroads for the family, as Irma was passing away and Marian was starting to take over."

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Community Engagement and Upcoming Topics

Towards the episode's conclusion, the hosts encourage listeners to engage by sharing their experiences with the Coconut Milk Cake Cockayne recipe. They announce that future episodes will continue to explore different editions and historical topics related to The Joy of Cooking. Shannon shares her upcoming plans to host a family gathering featuring roasted chicken and salads, while Megan discusses her love for a local lunch spot's thali sauce and her experimentation with homemade versions.

Notable Quote:

• Megan Scott (47:11): "If you decide to make it, you can tag us at the Joy of Cooking on Instagram or use the hashtag Joy Scouts."

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Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with acknowledgments to the production team and a reminder for listeners to subscribe, leave reviews, and participate in future discussions by calling the hotline. The hosts express their gratitude for the ongoing support and share a glimpse of the next episode’s focus on making fresh pasta.

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Key Takeaways

• Historical Evolution: The Joy of Cooking has evolved significantly from Irma S. Rombauer’s original recipes to Marian Rombauer Becker’s comprehensive and educational revisions.
• Recipe Adaptations: Modern editions incorporate easier ingredient sourcing and streamlined processes to accommodate contemporary home cooks.
• Personal Connections: The cookbook serves as a legacy piece, connecting multiple generations and fostering a sense of community among home cooks.
• Community Engagement: Listeners are encouraged to actively participate by trying recipes, sharing their experiences, and contributing to the ongoing dialogue around The Joy of Cooking.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• John Becker (01:27): "It's kind of a tense time. I started feeling, like, pretty nervous about it because I started with Paul Prudhomme recipes, which have you making a roux at like medium high."
• Megan Scott (20:00): "This is a lot. Getting the fresh coconut and then processing it so that you have not only fresh coconut, like grated coconut, but also the milk is so much work."
• Jon Becker (25:11): "The dynamic has been the same ever since—marrying the expectations of older readers with the interests of younger cooks."
• Megan Scott (21:07): "We've been hiring someone to transcribe everything or to type everything out. This is all wild."
• Jon Becker (33:51): "Every time we've found even a little mistake, we're both like, I can't believe we let that get through."
• Jon Becker (41:05): "That particular passage made me feel like I had a connection with Marian, and I actually felt like I was kind of being addressed by her."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast offers a profound exploration of the cookbook’s rich history, the personal stories behind its evolving editions, and the timeless recipes that continue to bring joy to home cooks. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, John, Megan, and Shannon celebrate the enduring legacy of The Joy of Cooking while inspiring listeners to create their own culinary traditions.

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Thank you for tuning into The Joy of Cooking Podcast. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and join us next week as we explore the art of making fresh pasta.

Transcript

[Megan Scott]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan and chicken wing enthusiast.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And blue cheese stuffed olives are the superior martini garnish.

[Jon Becker]

I'm Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook, and I am very impatient when it comes to making dark roux.

[Megan Scott]

Wow, that's really niche.

[Shannon Larson]

I know.

[Jon Becker]

It'S kind of a tense time. I started feeling, like, pretty nervous about it because I started with Paul Prudhomme recipes, which have you making a roux at like medium high.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's. That's risky business. You can do that when you're a chef.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, try opening a beverage like that's under pressure next to, you know, when you're trying to stir a roux. And let me tell you, bad times. Thankfully, no, but called Cajun napalm for a reason.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Cajun napalm.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's hot. John did make gumbo this week.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Which is awesome. And I feel like, really unexpected for a weeknight.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Because it does take quite a lot of time to make the roux.

[Jon Becker]

That's pretty much like the longest. I mean, I mean, unless you're a pauper dome and you have it cranked up to like, high or medium high or whatever, it's definitely like the longest and most time attention intensive. The rest of it's just, you know, simmering.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, just simmering. It's easy.

[Shannon Larson]

And bd.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, no big deal.

[Shannon Larson]

I do agree on those blue cheese stuffed olives.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I feel like this week our friendship attained a new level because you gave me your blue cheese stuffed olive from your martini.

[Shannon Larson]

I did.

[Megan Scott]

Which is such a nice thing.

[Shannon Larson]

I mean, I just. I understand you, like, it's just 100% the superior martini olives. And when I saw. And they gave you two regular olives.

[Megan Scott]

They gave you two regular.

[Shannon Larson]

I love olives of all kinds, but. Mm. Come on.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I wanted the blue cheese one I got you. John didn't order it for me correctly, so this is what happens.

[Jon Becker]

I'm just secretly opposed, but, you know, it's fine.

[Megan Scott]

Get outta here. One of our first conversations when I met John was about blue cheese and how I loved blue cheese, and he also loves blue cheese. And that was very important. That was like a relationship test. Yeah. One of the first. Like, oh, you like blue cheese? Okay. We can potentially date.

[Jon Becker]

So it's okay that I potentially failed this.

[Shannon Larson]

You gotta pass this one.

[Megan Scott]

Know your heart's in the right place.

[Jon Becker]

Good. I'll settle for that.

[Megan Scott]

What have you been up to this week, Shannon? What are you cooking?

[Shannon Larson]

We've been cooking a lot recently. Like I said, I think a couple episodes ago. I'm really trying to have more people over and, like, making plans with people. It's a goal of mine this year. I get. I'm getting older, and going out is just not as fun as it used to be. I feel like I can't talk to people, and I always feel a little rushed if, like, the restaurant's busy. And I want to support restaurants. We order just, like, to go orders most of the time. But we've just been having people over. We made fresh pasta one night with, like, asparagus and peas. Very springy. I think the best thing we made recently, we got the grill out because it's beautiful in Portland right now. And we made cold soba noodles with a cucumber salad with sesame oil. And then we grilled yakitori. Yakitori. Oh, and it was so fun and so delicious. And then the night that we were feeling really lazy, John took over, and we made loaded potatoes. Not baked potatoes, but, like, almost potato skins.

[Megan Scott]

Nice.

[Shannon Larson]

And they were so good. We paired them with a lot of vegetables to, like, balance it out because it wasn't helpful.

[Megan Scott]

Potatoes, a vegetable.

[Shannon Larson]

I mean, covered in cheese and bacon and sour cream. You know, vegetable.

[Megan Scott]

All vegetables.

[Shannon Larson]

Everything counts.

[Jon Becker]

I mean, all the nutrients are in the skin.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. And we leave the skins on. We never peel the skins.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Good call.

[Jon Becker]

We're good for potato skins. It's kind of right.

[Megan Scott]

Exactly.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

You need that.

[Shannon Larson]

But it's been really fun. Like, we've just kind of enjoyed cooking. It's lighter later. And so after work, we feel like we just have more time to put our energy into it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it is hard in the winter when it gets dark at, like, four here.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm like, no, it's really rough.

[Megan Scott]

It's like, it's bedtime. What are you talking about?

[Shannon Larson]

I know. I go to bed at seven.

[Megan Scott]

What are you.

[Shannon Larson]

I have to make dinner.

[Megan Scott]

What?

[Shannon Larson]

What about you two, other than gumbo.

[Jon Becker]

Just a shout out to. I think it was Amethyst Gannaway, chef from Charleston, who I feel like this is a thing that she just was talking about on social media. But yeah, a big dollop of potato salad in that gumbo. Fantastic. Fantastic. You're not necessarily mixing it in unless you're like that. You just take a little bite of the potato salad, and then, you know, you have your rice and you have your nice, dark, brothy gumbo. So good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that was a very good move. But for me, the key is not adding any raw onion, because that just ruins it.

[Jon Becker]

Sure.

[Megan Scott]

I did love the potato salad in the gumbo.

[Jon Becker]

That was very good.

[Megan Scott]

It's kind of like gravy. I mean, if you think about it, it's like mashed potatoes and gravy. Kind of.

[Shannon Larson]

Is it?

[Megan Scott]

But with gumbo instead of gravy and potato salad instead of mashed potatoes. But we also. We had a rutabaga left from our. Our winter csa. Those things last, I know, forever, which is great. But also, what do you do with them? I know you can mash them, you can turn them into soup, you can roast them, but for some reason, none of those things. I mean, it's sunny and warm. So I was like, none of those things sounded good. But John had a really good idea to treat it like. There's a French potato dish called pommes de terre fondant, which just means melting potatoes.

[Jon Becker]

And we talked about this last time.

[Megan Scott]

We might have talked about it. Like the rutabaga.

[Jon Becker]

Not with the rutabaga, just with regular potatoes.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, but you. You brown the. You cut the potatoes into these little cylinders and you brown them and then braise them with broth and butter and herbs and. And the broth reduces into this, like, thick, syrupy sauce. That's really good. So we just did that, but with rutabaga instead of potato.

[Shannon Larson]

How'd it turn out?

[Megan Scott]

Delicious. Yeah, it turned out great. I love the texture.

[Jon Becker]

It was a disaster.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like we need to mention disasters every so often, because they do happen.

[Jon Becker]

Well, unfortunately, never, never do this.

[Megan Scott]

No good, good use for rutabagas. And we actually don't have a rutabaga specific recipe in the 2019. Joy.

[Jon Becker]

We.

[Megan Scott]

We talk about them and how you can use them, which is basically like you would use a potato or something. Maybe that's something we should add next time.

[Jon Becker]

Agreed.

[Megan Scott]

Also, they're sometimes called neeps, which is the cutest word I've ever heard for a vegetable.

[Shannon Larson]

Wait, I've never heard that. So it's either sweets or rutabaga. Those are completely different words.

[Megan Scott]

Rutabaga or swedes.

[Shannon Larson]

Swedes. Which one's your favorite?

[Megan Scott]

I think neeps.

[Jon Becker]

I mean, I feel like neeps. It's. It's used in combination, like neeps and tatties. It's like rutabaga and potato together. It's like a. One of those fun British things to say.

[Shannon Larson]

Love it.

[Jon Becker]

Almost as good as Rumble Dee thumps, which is a cheesy, potatoey, scallion Y type dish.

[Megan Scott]

We're gonna talk about our Joy Scouts recipe of the week. So last week's recipe was salted egg yolks, which John and I ended up not actually making the recipe of the week for. I don't know, we just got distracted and then forgot about it.

[Shannon Larson]

That's allowed.

[Megan Scott]

It takes a minute. It does.

[Shannon Larson]

And I have to admit, I started it too late. So they're still curing, so I have nothing to report. I'm excited. I've always wanted the excuse to make them, and I'm excited to use it on, like, a Caesar salad is what I'm thinking.

[Megan Scott]

That'll be delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

We did go to one of our local Asian supermarkets and bought two different kinds of salted egg yolks that you can just get them in, like, vacuum sealed packages. And it's very convenient. So that's what we did. We totally cheated. We haven't used them yet, but they're in the fridge.

[Shannon Larson]

So what are you excited to use them for?

[Jon Becker]

I was kind of thinking French fries.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jon Becker]

I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

I think that'll be really good because there's the. The salted egg potato chips that are really popular.

[Shannon Larson]

I've never had one of those.

[Megan Scott]

Delicious. So French fries.

[Shannon Larson]

Come on.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I know everything on potato chips.

[Jon Becker]

It's time for a trip to H Barn.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

For anybody that cooked along. Thank you so much. It's a really fun recipe. And there's tons of ways to use the salted egg yolks. We talked about a bunch of them last week. But basically anything fried, I think probably like onion rings, French fries, potato chips. But also. Yeah, Caesar salads. Or probably any salad would be del. Pasta dishes.

[Shannon Larson]

Avocado toast. I was thinking of, like, putting it, like, making avocado toast and then putting some of that on there.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Jon Becker]

I'm sure it'd be great, like, shaved over some asparagus too, like that, you know, like a classic asparagus mimosa, I think is what it's called, it's like when you, you know, rice, like a hard boiled egg or chop it very finely over and then put it over asparagus. So.

[Megan Scott]

Yep. All right, so this week we are doing a little something different. We're talking about Joy of Cooking history. So so far the Joy History episode of the podcast has been the most popular one. And we're going to start recording episodes periodically about different editions of Joy of Cooking or different historical topics. Just to dig in a little deeper because we were trying to fit a lot into that one episode and it just was way too much. And I feel like, I feel like every edition could have multiple episodes because there's a lot going on. My notes for this episode are wild, so we'll see how much we get to.

[Jon Becker]

Thanks to Ryder historian Ann Mendelsohn. We have a lot to work with aside from, like, my dad's remembrances. But in addition to that, I feel like this edition and all of them do really mean quite a bit to us. So a lot to share besides just like the blow by blow of how they got published.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, it's nice because there's obviously a lot of history about the Joy, but you're from the family, so you know even more than other people might. So it's nice way to get to know the book more.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Sarah, would you like to read or play the question that prompted this episode?

[Caller]

My mom made many recipes from a Joy of Cooking cookbook. I have no idea what edition, but I want to get the one she used when I was growing up. I know there was a coconut milk cake and a split pea soup recipe. Any ideas on which edition or would the 2019 edition do the trick?

[Jon Becker]

So there are two possibilities. I think the fresh coconut milk cake that was added in the 1963 edition, which is what we chose to discuss. It's also in the 1975 edition. Whether or not your mother had. I mean, if you could remember the COVID if it's blue, that's a 63 edition. And if it's white with golds and a really elongated J, that is the 1975 edition.

[Megan Scott]

Both of those are in the 2019 edition, but with changes. Yeah, big changes, which we'll get into in a second. So any of those would be good if you want to find those specific recipes. If you're into it for more of a, like, nostalgia, I would say try to find a 63 edition because it's just a really special edition of the book. But if you're interested in a cookbook that you might want to use for a lot of different things. We're going to recommend the 2019 edition. We're a little biased, but as fun as the old editions are and they're still useful in a lot of ways. Our ideas about cooking have changed a lot over time. For example, you know, back in mid century, people used to cook vegetables for a very long time, like asparagus for 20 minutes kind of deal. So it's reliable for a lot of things, but not certain things.

[Jon Becker]

And in this particular instance, you, you mentioned the split pea soup recipe. And in the 63 edition and the 75 edition, Marianne calls for actually soaking split peas, which is completely unnecessary. I mean, it's not quite the same as like, you know, they used to prefer like completely overcooked and blown to hell vegetables. We definitely like, especially over the last two or three editions, have streamlined some of these process processes that we call for.

[Megan Scott]

And so I really wanted to talk about the coconut milk cake because it's a pretty interesting recipe. It's called fresh coconut milk cake Cockaigne and it didn't actually become the Cockaigne moniker wasn't added until the 70s. And this has, this has caused a lot of confusion for Joy of Cooking fans. Like, what does it mean? It is explained in the book, but you have to. It's kind of a treasure hunt to find where it's explained. But basically Cockayne is the medieval peasant's dream. So like imagine roasted chickens wandering the streets and the river's flowing with wine and you get to sleep and eat all day in sun is always shining. It's kind of like the big rock candy mountain, but for medieval peasants. And so anything that. Well, Marianne Ron Bauer Becker and her husband John named their home inside in Cincinnati Cockayne, after that mythical land of plenty. And then any recipe that they particularly loved or thought was really good, they just added Cockayne to the name of the recipe.

[Shannon Larson]

So why is it making me teary eyed?

[Megan Scott]

I know, it's really sweet. I love it.

[Jon Becker]

It was a beautiful home.

[Shannon Larson]

Makes.

[Jon Becker]

Makes me tear up too.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, it's so nice you got to.

[Megan Scott]

Spend your summers there, right?

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. So my parents divorced when I was really, really young and so I would spend all of the school year, the not fun time with my mom in sunny Portland, Oregon. Then I would go summer break and some holidays, spend it with my dad and at. At Cockhain.

[Megan Scott]

Mm.

[Jon Becker]

But very wonderful place. You know, Marian had cultivated a wildflower garden that, you know, the few times I was there during like spring Break. It was just really wonderful to walk through. She definitely quite the naturalist and that definitely comes through when you walk the property.

[Megan Scott]

She was very multi talented. She, you know, in addition to writing a cookbook and collecting modern art and having like being involved in the Cincinnati art community, she basically grew this amazing native plant garden in her yard. And she wrote. Co wrote a book called Wild wealth, which is all about gardening and how to like in like landscaping and how to, you know, have something in bloom in every season. So she was a very thoughtful and like studious person.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds like somebody I wish I knew.

[Megan Scott]

I know. I wish I knew her too. I think about that all the time. I know you do too, John.

[Jon Becker]

I definitely wish that I had known her. I feel like I do to a certain degree. Thanks to this edition and the 1975 edition and just being able to work on the book. Feel like I've gotten to know her pretty well.

[Megan Scott]

You mentioned Ann Mendelsohn earlier, who is really a scholar and writer who wrote a book called Stand Facing the Stove, which is about Marian and Irma and the kind of early days of Joy of Cooking. Not even early, but like early to, you know, through the 70s. Through the 70s. She worked on that book for over 10 years. Around 10 years. And it's really incredible that the level of detail that she gets into is. It does make you feel a bit like you knew them.

[Shannon Larson]

I love the way that you were describing Irma to me and then Marian to me and Irma being kind of like this, throw it all to the wind, you know, let's just put it in the book. And then, I don't know, it's just such a dichotomy. But I love that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, Irma was definitely more of a freewheeling kind of. She. She wasn't formally educated, you know, she. The way she grew up was in like upper middle class German, St. Louis community. And at that time when she was growing up, like late 1800s, early 1900s, women of her class didn't. They didn't have jobs, they didn't work. So she didn't need to get a formal education. She was educated in music and the arts and poetry and language, but not really anything practical. And she was just very much a like, witt, charming person. Whereas Marian was very studious and serious and methodical. And so you can really see the difference in the additions as Marian takes over from Irma. But before we get into that, because there's so much to talk about, I wanted to like specifically talk about the coconut milk cake because It's a really interesting recipe. Do you have it open? You have it open?

[Shannon Larson]

No, I have it open to broth on the rocks, which I wanted to mention, but I will try to find it.

[Megan Scott]

I wanted to read the headnote because the headnote is really nice. Some years ago, we gave a pet recipe to a friend who later presented us with the one which follows best made with fresh coconut milk. She said that in her family, whenever a treasured recipe was received, they gave an equally treasured one of their own in return. We love this festive adopted child. So it's a recipe that was given by a friend of Marian and John's and I. You know, we don't really have any insight into whether they changed it or what happened with that. But it's a really interesting recipe because it does call for freshly grated coconut and fresh coconut milk. Have you ever opened a coconut before?

[Shannon Larson]

I have, but that's only because I grew up in Florida and my sister and I took it upon ourselves to like, chop one open one time because we were bored. So I've never used it, like, for culinary purposes. It was just pure boredom.

[Megan Scott]

How did you. How did you end up cracking it open?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my God. We used so many tools. We had, like, hammer. I mean, we were also. I think I was like, like 11 and she was 8. So it's not like we had a lot of, like, muscle strength. We got it open, though.

[Megan Scott]

Nice. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. But there wasn't much milk inside of it.

[Jon Becker]

Well, it's. That's water. It's not even the milk.

[Megan Scott]

Right. The water, you kind of have to blend it with water to make milk. I had to open a bunch of coconuts at my last job because in a lot of photo shoots we would do. We would want like a cracked, freshly cracked coconut. So I got really good at opening them with a hammer.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, okay.

[Megan Scott]

There we go.

[Shannon Larson]

We were on the right path.

[Megan Scott]

If you, like, hold it so the eyes are facing you, you can kind of see there are, like ridges, more significant ridges going down the sides of the coconut, like longitudinally. And if you then hold it in your non dominant hand and hit it pretty firmly on those ridges, like, hit it on the first one, then rotate it and hit it on the second one, and then rotate it and keep doing that pretty firmly, it will just like crack open.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh.

[Megan Scott]

And it's. It gets easier the more you do it.

[Shannon Larson]

Now. I want to try.

[Megan Scott]

It's very fun.

[Shannon Larson]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

Just do it over a bowl to catch the water that is going to come out. Yeah. But yeah, it's fun to crack a coconut. That said, we did change this recipe quite a bit for the 2019 edition.

[Jon Becker]

Nobody's got time for that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that was kind of what we were thinking. It was like, this is a lot. Getting the fresh coconut and then processing it so that you have not only fresh coconut, like grated coconut, but also the milk is so much work. And this is already a layer cake, which is already a lot of work for people. And so we switched to dried coconut and canned coconut milk, since they're really readily available, I think more so now than in the 60s.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, exactly. I was going to say, like coconut milk in the 60s, probably a little harder to find.

[Megan Scott]

And then we increased the sugar a little bit because the cake, when we tested it was a little bit dense and dry. So a little bit of extra sugar makes it more moist. And the recipe also called for separating eggs and whipping egg whites and folding them in. We did not want. This is just like things. I don't. A list of things Megan doesn't want to do.

[Shannon Larson]

Don't want to do this.

[Megan Scott]

I do not want to whip egg whites. So we added them whole and it's a fantastic cake. It really doesn't need the eggs to be separated. We fill the cake with lime curd.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, so good.

[Jon Becker]

The recipe that was in the 63 and the 75 edition is calling for current strawberry or raspberry jelly. So you know those are going to be like, certainly more convenient. But the time that you've saved not cracking open a coconut and making your own coconut milk, you can have a little. A little for the lime curd, I think.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Or you could certainly use the jam or jelly between the layers if you wanted.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like strawberry jam would be good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I think strawberry jam or like a tart, like a raspberry would be delicious with the coconut. So, yeah, you could totally do that. And then we use whipped cream to frost the cake instead of. In the 60s and 70s, it called for seafoam icing, which is like a. It's kind of like a meringue, a cooked meringue icing. But it's very. It's good, but it's very sweet. And again, you're whipping, you're separating eggs, you're whipping egg whites over a water bath with a mixer. It's just a lot going on.

[Shannon Larson]

Megan doesn't want to do that.

[Megan Scott]

Don't want to do that.

[Jon Becker]

But it only takes seven minutes.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's like seven minute icing. So we did change quite a bit. We think it's a better cake that way. But, you know, you can be the judge and pick up a 63 edition if you want. They're often available at, like, estate sales and used bookstores. And it's really recogniz of the blue cover.

[Shannon Larson]

It is such a beautiful book just to have on your bookshelf. I think it's just. Or in your kitchen. It is so pretty.

[Megan Scott]

I wanted to, like, segue into talking specifically about just this edition and what makes it special and unique and interesting. The first thing I'll say is that this is the first edition that Marian Rombauer Becker. So Irma's daughter was in charge. Irma was still alive when Marian was working on this edition, but she had a series of strokes that made her unable to work on the book, even though I think, according to Anne Mendelsohn, she very much wanted to still be a part of the process because it was her, you know, it was her baby. And she had really stewarded it through a lot of difficult times. But this was a transitional time when Marian took over the revision. And you can really see the change from the 1950s edition to the 1960s, because again, like, Irma was sort of like, I like this recipe. Let's throw it in. Or somebody mailed this recipe to me. Let's throw it in. To Marian, who really wanted to make Joy of Cooking an encyclopedic book that had everything in it and that would actually teach people how to cook, like the hows and the whys. Not just like, here's a recipe, follow it. But like, how do you measure flour? How do you measure ingredients? She devoted like five to ten pages just on how to measure things, which is totally new for Joy of Cooking. Totally.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And also reflects kind of a change in home cooks from folks of Irma's generation who had a certain amount of like, just general know how around how to cook things. But in the mid century, it wasn't as common to just have that knowledge. So you needed a little more guidance.

[Jon Becker]

Well, yeah, I'm sure that there was the amount of knowledge that you could assume is maybe a little different. But I. I feel like it's just more indicative of Marianne's thoroughness and Irma's lack of thoroughness than anything else. I mean, revision doesn't even really capture, like, what Marianne did. I mean, a lot of people were upset with how she changed the book because, you know, for the first time, like, a large number of recipes were taken out in order to make room for, like, Hundreds and hundreds of new recipes. The entire organization changed. You know, she devoted three chapters to just, like, talking about ingredients, techniques, and nutrition. Nutrition was definitely one of her hobby horses, I guess you could call it. But, yeah, you know, it really is like the transition between, like, Irma's quote unquote little book, which ended up becoming very large of recipes that were just things that she liked, to something where, you know, more systematic, I guess.

[Shannon Larson]

I was reading a part of it, and she actually gets into, like, what are calories? Or what is fat? I loved that section because it was just. It was just really interesting to read her point of view on that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, she was very interested in nutrition and a lot of the ideas that she had about it. Well, things have changed, let's say, over the years. But it is really cool to look back at those sections of the older books. And, you know, Joy of Cooking has had a nutrition section since. Since Marian took over.

[Jon Becker]

Well, and before that, there were, like. In some of Irma's editions, there were, like, calorie charts.

[Megan Scott]

Right, but for common foods.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, yeah, just like page upon page of charts, like, shoved into the back for whoever might care.

[Megan Scott]

I wanted to read a quick excerpt from Stand Facing the Stove about how Marian had to cut old material to make room for the new stuff. It's just really. It's really interesting. It says she had decided early on that large amounts of material would have to be cut from the old book. It was a step for which thousands of readers never forgave her. But one would be hard put to think of anyone better qualified to face the inevitable reviser's. To retain talismans for which an older cadre felt a proprietary loyalty, or to make room for the interests of younger cooks convinced that their preferences were timeless. Marian did not solve the problem with seamless grace. Still, it is difficult to imagine any other person doing half so good a job. So she was trying to marry the expectations of readers who were already fans of Joy with new cooks who maybe needed something different from the book, which is still something that we think about all the time.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm like, that sounds familiar.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

That has been the dynamic ever since.

[Megan Scott]

Forever. Yeah, seemingly forever.

[Jon Becker]

60, 60 years and change.

[Megan Scott]

But I do take. I do take some. I guess I don't know if solace is the right word, sort of. But I do take some solace from the fact that Marian believed that the book needed to be a living, kind of a living document for home cooks and not get stuck in this old way of thinking about food and cooking. You Know, I think as we were approaching the 2019 revision, we were very cautious about cutting things because we didn't want to take away anyone's favorite recipe. But we had to, like, think about, you know, well, we gotta make room for all this stuff that we think is important, so how do we make those choices? And some of the choices were hard, and maybe we didn't always make the right decision. But I think seeing seeing Marian's example of how she handled it made us feel like, okay, we are empowered to make some of these choices, but we are always thinking about the reader.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, and I love the idea of the Joy of Cooking being like, you can look back and see how people were living in a certain era, too. It's super cool to think of it that way, because if you pick up the 63 version, that's the year my mom was born. And I'm like, okay, so this is, like, the world she was being brought into, right? I don't know. I think that's really beautiful.

[Jon Becker]

At least the world that she was brought into, as, you know, Marian might have seen it. Marian's world, you know, it's.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I mean, we're a Joy of Cooking family. My mom has a 75 version still of my grandmother's on her shelf, so that was her world. I mean, that was the cooking that she was eating. So it's kind of beautiful that way.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's really lovely to hear those stories, too, because it's. It's a book that kind of connects multiple generations of a family because people remember their mom's version or their grandmother's version, and a lot of people have passed down versions that they inherit. It does feel like you're sort of connected to this greater community of home cooks, and you all have sort of the same reference point of the Joy of Cooking, which is, like, kind of gives me chills, kind of makes me want to cry a little, like, all the feelings. But, yeah, this. This edition is also really interesting because it came at a kind of a crossroads, I guess, for the family, as Irma was passing away and Marian was starting to take over. There was a lot going on at the time. So Marian had been diagnosed with cancer years earlier, but she was working on this addition as she was going through.

[Jon Becker]

A lot of treatments and also, you know, like, visiting her mother and taking care of her as well.

[Megan Scott]

Absolutely.

[Jon Becker]

Very busy time for her.

[Megan Scott]

Very busy time. But according to Ann Mendelsohn, she met every challenge with just a kind of wild energy and just refused to be laid low by all these things probably to some degree not super healthfully, but I think it probably helped her cope with what she was experiencing.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. According to. According to my dad, Ethan, you know, she always had a smile on her face and, you know, she really hid like, you know, the. The treatments back then were painful. She had a double mastectomy and that was pain, you know, that caused like a lot of complications. It does seem like maybe not the most healthy thing to like hide what you're going through. But she managed to turn all of that into an amazingly productive effort.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. At one point she was dealing with. One of the side effects from her treatment was that her right arm was very swollen and she had to keep it elevated. And so even when she was going through that, she could write backwards with her left hand so that you'd have to read it in a mirror. And she just continued working on the book, writing backwards with her non dominant hand, which is something that I can't really wrap my mind around it.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I'm just trying to even picture how that works. And it's mind boggling.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. I guess that she would use very thin paper so that people could just turn it over and read it. Yeah. I guess it's just like a skill that she learned from being either ambidextrous or left handed. But being forced to use her right hand during elementary school. Pretty crazy to think about.

[Megan Scott]

You're a lefty too.

[Jon Becker]

That's true.

[Megan Scott]

But you can't write backwards. Or at least I haven't.

[Jon Becker]

I have. No fun tricks. No fun tricks.

[Megan Scott]

Another thing I wanted to bring up was that Marian, I mean, I think in a lot of ways she had an artist's brain. So she had some unique ways of organizing her work. One of which was that she. To do the 1963 edition, she actually organized the entire book on index cards. She had someone cut out everything from the previous edition, paste it on index cards, and then she would create new index cards wherever she wanted to add material or add like a recipe or something. And then it was all organized that way. I just.

[Shannon Larson]

It's like breaking my brain right now.

[Megan Scott]

I know.

[Jon Becker]

Well, and then she actually tried to turn in the manuscript like that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, she was going to turn that in as if it were the manuscript. The publisher ended up hiring someone to transcribe everything or to type everything out. This is all wild. It's like hard to think. It's hard to imagine a time before computers.

[Shannon Larson]

Right.

[Megan Scott]

When you couldn't just have something like there weren't copiers back then. You Couldn't just copy things. You couldn't just print things in your home. You couldn't email anything. You know, it was just. Everything was done on paper. And so she had these index cards. The publisher hired this person to transcribe everything, who ended up making. Introducing a lot of errors into the text. And then they would mail the pages to Marian to proofread, and she would find the errors, correct them, but a lot of the time, they didn't actually get corrected in the final copy. So a lot of just mishaps happened during this edition. And kind of the wildest thing that happened was that the publisher actually printed the 1960. It was 1962 at the time, or 1961.

[Jon Becker]

1962.

[Megan Scott]

62, yeah. The publisher went to press with the book without Marian's knowledge or consent. Like, she hadn't sent them the final manuscript, but they printed it anyway. And she found out about it because on the day of her mother's funeral, one of the guests said, hey, I just saw your book in the store. Congratulations. And she was like, what are you talking about? It's not done. But the publisher had printed it anyway without a contract. They didn't even have a contract to. To print that edition, and they did it. So.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Which is just wild to think about because every prior edition of Joy had been written and that basically on spec, and the contract was done when the manuscript. The contract was signed when the manuscript was turned in, which is just wild.

[Megan Scott]

To think about backwards.

[Jon Becker]

No idea, like, how that came about or why they. Why they kept it the same. Did they know that there was another way? I don't know.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I don't know if that was typical at the time for cookbooks in general or that was just some weird. The Joy of Cooking has a really weird and quirky publishing history that's unlike most other books separate, like, three episode arc.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Publishing drama. But. Yeah. So in the end, the president of the publishing company resigned over it, and the publisher agreed to print all of Marian's corrections to the edition. She was horrified that it was out in public because it had so many errors in it.

[Shannon Larson]

And, like, the timing of it is just.

[Megan Scott]

The timing is just awful. I know. I can't imagine what that must have felt like.

[Shannon Larson]

Awful.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, awful.

[Jon Becker]

But for years afterwards, anytime she encountered a 1962 edition like the apocryphal one, she would offer to buy it if it was in a store or offer to replace it if she saw it on somebody's shelf. She was very, very adamant about, like, getting rid of that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Which I understand, having co authored an edition. Like, I understand that feeling of, like, even, you know, there's no way to write a cookbook without making some mistakes. But every time we've found even a little mistake, we're both like, I can't believe we let that get through. You know, it's only an 1100 page book.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. You didn't look at it closely enough.

[Megan Scott]

Sorry, guys.

[Jon Becker]

Obviously.

[Megan Scott]

So I understand something of what Sheamus felt, but obviously, like, that was just an exceptional situation. But in spite of that, with Marianne's revisions, it's a really. It's just a really beautiful addition. The illustrations are really lovely.

[Shannon Larson]

I love the illustrations so much that I'm like, megan, do you want to get one of them tattooed together?

[Megan Scott]

I do. I really do.

[Shannon Larson]

The one with the lobster. The lobster one.

[Jon Becker]

Ginny Hoffman was the illustrator. She did a wonderful job. We always refer to the. You know, there's like, a lot of process shots showing, like, you know, ingredients being manipulated or lobsters being, you know, handled. Handled.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Refer to them as Jetson's hands. They're just kind of. To give you an idea of. Or maybe that's just like an outdated reference.

[Shannon Larson]

I don't think it's. I mean, when I was showing. When I was showing my husband the illustration, specifically the lobster one, he's like, those are, like, sexy hands.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, they're very, like, delicate, delicate looking hands. Yeah. Very, very Jetsons.

[Shannon Larson]

Y.

[Megan Scott]

But they're. They're super charming. And yeah, the lobster.

[Shannon Larson]

Lobsters. You're on the page with the lamb cake.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, the lamb cake. Oh, my gosh. Its face, John, look at its face.

[Shannon Larson]

It's a really. I mean, the book itself is beautiful and the illustrations are beautiful. It's just worth. If you ever see it again. I think I've seen them at estate sales or antique malls, for example. Like, just get a copy. It's really pretty.

[Caller]

Just wanted to make a quick request for anybody to send Joy of Cooking tattoos to the hotline. I would love to see them.

[Megan Scott]

Please send them to us. Yes, please do.

[Jon Becker]

I actually did see some recent tattoos on, I think, Instagram. They were pretty fantastic.

[Megan Scott]

Well, we do know a friend of a friend who got the squirrel.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Scott]

The infamous squirrel tattooed on their body, which is a choice, but I respect it. I like it. Respect it. Yeah.

[Caller]

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[Jon Becker]

Marian, like I said, added hundreds of new recipes, many of them from global food cultures. There was like a definitely a big influx of French recipes. So there's, you know, cassoulet salad, nicoise, Italian specialties like osso buco and frittata, as well as, you know, couscous, dolmas, hummus. A lot of different stuff being added. She was really, really trying to bring it as up to date as she possibly could. And then of course there's like also a bunch of new kind of, I guess you could call them DIY recipes. So, you know, there's this whole chapter called Know youw Ingredients. And in that chapter, not only does she discuss, like the properties of different ingredients, but she's also talking about how to make them. So there's like recipes for how to make cheese, there's recipes for how to make soy milk. I don't think the tofu recipe made it into the 63. I feel like that was added in 1975.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, she really tried to be a completist with this addition. And she was inspired by the Larousse Gastronomique. And she wanted the Joy of Cooking to be like the American version of the Larousse Gastronomique, which is a famous French, an old French. It's not really a cookbook. It's more of a reference. It does have some recipes in it, but kind of a glossary of everything French cooking. And she wanted Joy of Cooking to be like that.

[Shannon Larson]

And that's how I talk about the joy now is like, yeah, there. I mean, obviously it's a cookbook with a ton of recipes, but it's also an encyclopedia on how to cook and how to use ingredients and so much more. So I think she kind of paved the way for how most of us think of the joy.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, certainly now.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. And not to quote Anne Mendelsohn again, but she she really did have a really nice way of summing it up as Marianne included, quote, knowledge that made the difference between walking through a formulaic script and applying real judgment.

[Megan Scott]

Mm. I love that.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, that's nice. She sounds like a cool person, Mary.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, she really does. She was also interested in, like, modern dance and modern art, and. I don't know, just everything about her just sounds lovely. And she was a really good letter writer. We have some of her letters, but. Yeah. Wish we had met Marian.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. The dedication for this edition was kind of indirectly what I mean, you know, I. It's definitely what inspired me to start working on the book.

[Megan Scott]

Can you read it?

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, I can read it. So she's talking about her husband, John. John has always contributed verve to this undertaking, but during the past 10 years, he has, through his constant support and crisp, creative editing, become an integral part of the book. We look forward to a time when our two boys and their wives will continue to keep the Joy a family affair, as well as an enterprise in which the authors owe no obligation to anyone but themselves. And you, you being the readers. I encountered that particular passage at a really dark and kind of indecisive point in my life, and for the first time, I felt like I had a connection with Marian, and I actually felt like I was kind of. I mean, being addressed by her.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. She kind of puts you on the spot in that.

[Jon Becker]

Well, and it doesn't help that her husband, who she's just. Just finished talking about, is also named John. But, you know, I really took it to heart, and that combined with, like, the epigraph that she gives, it's the best.

[Megan Scott]

I'm actually really obsessed with this epigraph for some reason. Can you please read it?

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, sure. It's a quote from Faust by Goethe. That which thy fathers bequeathed to thee, earn it anew if thou wouldst possess it.

[Megan Scott]

Damn mic drop.

[Shannon Larson]

I know. It just feels like such a cool way to start a cookbook. It's just cool.

[Jon Becker]

Well, it comes right after the dedication, and it's definitely like, I put a spell on you. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

You must continue the legacy of Joy of Cooking and do a really good job.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. And I'm obliged to myself.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

And everyone who ever reads the book.

[Megan Scott]

No pressure.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

No, you said it made you feel connected to Marianne in a way you never had felt before, and then it kind of changed the trajectory of what you ended up doing.

[Jon Becker]

I had this deep sense of being beholden to Marian and to the book, to her sense of purpose, a lot.

[Shannon Larson]

About what you've told me about her reminds me of you, like, specifically, which is really special as well.

[Jon Becker]

Well, thank you. That's. That's a very nice compliment.

[Shannon Larson]

You could grow better wildflowers, though. I'm just joking on it. Okay, I'm kidding.

[Jon Becker]

She's definitely, like, taken a lot of inspiration from her and the fact that she was able to put together this edition, suffering during cancer treatment is very inspiring. And, you know, it's. We're coming up on my five year anniversary of getting diagnosed with cancer, which actually I was diagnosed right after we finished the 2019 edition. You know, looking forward, I just know how difficult that must have been. I mean, you know, everybody's experience with cancer and cancer treatment is different. But from what it sounds like, she was going through some horrendous times. I just don't know how she managed to do it, you know, after I was diagnosed, after surgery, when I was still getting chemo, I remember Roz lepel from Scribner was in touch.

[Megan Scott]

And Roz was not our editor, but sort of the closest contact we had as a publisher at the time. When we were working on the 2019 edition.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, she was shepherding us through the last part of the revision process. And, you know, after surgery, you know, she was like, oh, you know, you should. You guys should start working on a new project. And, you know, I'm getting, you know, chemo infusions every two weeks.

[Megan Scott]

And this was during COVID This is 2020. So right as Covid hit right after.

[Shannon Larson]

You finished the book tour.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, yeah. We were in deep lockdown time by the time Roz was getting in touch about working on a new project. And I was. It's just like, yes, I would love to do that. And then my resolve and any kind of enthusiasm I had for it would. Would wane with like the next infusion.

[Megan Scott]

Neither of us had had time to even wrap our heads around the 2019 edition that we had just come out with, because I think it was such a whirlwind of. We were on deadline for like three years getting different parts of the book done, and then it was finally done and we would launch straight into publicity, which was its own wild whirlwind of activity.

[Jon Becker]

I barely remember any of it.

[Megan Scott]

No, I do too. I remember very little. And then 2020 happened and Covid happened, and then you were diagnosed and it was just like, everything needs to stop. You know, I can't. I can't think about another project right now. I don't have the. I don't have the spoons for that.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. It was just. It was definitely thinking about Marianne's example and how she was able to. To produce, like, an entire manuscript during the, you know, the aftermath of being diagnosed and going through treatment that, I mean, it made me. Sadly, I got to know her even better, and also, it just makes me respect her so much more.

[Megan Scott]

I think it's also okay to not white knuckle your way through cancer treatment and try to do everything.

[Jon Becker]

Well. Yeah. When we were preparing for this episode, I just. I couldn't even imagine, like, trying to hide.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Trying to hide a diagnosis like that from even your family.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Hard to think about. I'm glad there's not as much. I don't know. I may. She must have felt some stigma in talking about it or just that she maybe didn't want to be viewed differently. And I am glad some of that stigma has fallen away.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Thank you for sharing that.

[Jon Becker]

You're welcome.

[Megan Scott]

I don't know how to segue out of that.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, no, it's. It's a tough one.

[Megan Scott]

But I did want to announce this week's Joy Scouts recipe. We're just gonna do the coconut milk cake cockayne because we talked about it so much today. It's on page 724 of the 2019 edition. If you have the old version, you're welcome to try your hand at fresh coconut.

[Shannon Larson]

I kind of want somebody to try the. I know, because I want to. And, like, take video of the steps. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

But, yeah. Let us know what you think of the recipe. Please post it on social media. If you. If you decide to make it, you can tag us at the Joy of Cooking on Instagram or use the hashtag Joy Scouts. And if you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Caller]

I want to make my own pasta. Do I need a pasta machine to roll it out? I'm hesitant on purchasing kitchen gear before starting a new hobby.

[Megan Scott]

Understandable. Yeah, we'll get into that next week. Making fresh pasta is delightful. John makes it for us. For some reason, you're like, you're really good at making fresh pasta.

[Jon Becker]

That's because I have a pasta roller.

[Megan Scott]

But that's not the answer to the question.

[Shannon Larson]

Also, he did buy a garlic press.

[Megan Scott]

So John did buy a garlic press.

[Shannon Larson]

Kitchen appliance stuff.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, no, I followed through. I Bought a garlic press.

[Megan Scott]

You bought two garlic press.

[Jon Becker]

I actually found the one with gigantic holes that I remember from back in the day, and it still hasn't gotten here, which, you know, fine. But, yeah, I got a. I got a newfangled one that.

[Shannon Larson]

I don't know all the things.

[Jon Becker]

It cleans itself. It ejects the.

[Megan Scott]

The.

[Jon Becker]

The. Yeah, it's pretty.

[Megan Scott]

Garlic skin.

[Jon Becker]

The garlic skin. It's pretty fancy. I've only used it once. Definitely did a good job. Didn't have to peel the garlic. You know, some. Some. I feel like some models are. You know, they advertise that you don't have to peel the garlic before you. Before you press it. I don't think this one specifically said that, but I just tried it anyway, and thankfully, it worked.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, it definitely works for that. Yeah, no, I. I'm actually coming around on the garlic press.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm waiting till you get the second one, and then I want you to report back to me which one I should buy.

[Megan Scott]

Okay, well, here's the boss move, which is to. So if you go to H Mart, you can buy, like, a pint or a quart container that peeled garlic. Full of peeled garlic.

[Jon Becker]

No, no, no.

[Megan Scott]

Then you put it in a food processor, and you chop it all up. You make mince it in the food processor. Then you put it in a. Like a Ziploc, flatten it really flat, and then make indentations, like. And then freeze it, and then you can just break off pieces every time you need it instead of fooling with garlic. And then you don't have to use garlic, which I don't. Yeah, we don't talk about that here.

[Jon Becker]

Jarlic's fine.

[Megan Scott]

It's fine.

[Jon Becker]

Don't yuck any yums now.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm sorry.

[Megan Scott]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Before we wrap, what is everybody thinking about cooking this week?

[Shannon Larson]

I'm hosting a west coast family hang at my house. My uncle is coming up from San Diego with his partner. My cousin's coming up with his wife from San Francisco. My sister's coming down from Seattle. We're gonna hang, and I'm gonna do two of Samin's buttermilk chickens, because I. Roasting a chicken is my new thing. When you have company, it's just the easiest. And then I think I'm gonna do, like, the celery and date salad. And I found this recipe for a white bean salad with anchovy vinaigrette that I want to put together, so it's just gonna be a bunch of like, things that can sit on the table pretty easily and then roasted chicken so that I can actually hang out with my family. And I'm really excited.

[Megan Scott]

Food you can serve at room temperature is the best.

[Shannon Larson]

Yes. And I'm really trying to, like, make it. Like, I always put too much pressure on myself, and I'm trying to lower that. It's all going to be handmade and everything, but I can do some of this stuff the day before and, like, less pressure.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Have fun. That sounds awesome.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, they're a bunch of weirdos, so I'm super excited. My family's eccentric.

[Megan Scott]

We don't know anything about that.

[Shannon Larson]

No, nothing. What about you two?

[Megan Scott]

Well, I've been kind of on a kick of eating the same thing for lunch every day, and I love it so much. So in Portland, there's this little chain of. They're not really restaurants. They're like little windows that you go order food from, but it's called whole bowl, and it's just, like, brown rice, black beans, black olives from the can.

[Shannon Larson]

Which we're fans of.

[Megan Scott]

Very big fan. Salsa, avocado, sour cream cheese, and then this sauce that they put on it that's called thali sauce. And I found a copycat recipe online that is made with, like, has a lot of nutritional yeast, which is delicious, and, like, chickpeas that you blend up and it gives it kind of a creamy texture. Um, and then lots of, like, you know, garlic powder, onion powder, turmeric, stuff like that. Um, but I've been eating it every day for lunch, and I am not done yet. I love it. I need to do that.

[Shannon Larson]

John, any plans for you? Are you making any feast this week?

[Jon Becker]

Like, just random grilling.

[Shannon Larson]

Nice.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. The gumbo was actually. It was not premeditated, so hopefully, like, there will be some other things like that that, you know, don't involve, you know, burns.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle making fresh pasta. And don't forget to make this week's recipe, coconut milk cake Cockayne on page 724. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dresky, our production coordinator, Hayley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.