A Casual Culinary Chat About Preserved Lemon With Jordan Mishra Johnson

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast - Episode Summary: "A Casual Culinary Chat About Preserved Lemon With Jordan Mishra Johnson"

Episode Overview Released on April 9, 2025, The Joy of Cooking Podcast delves into the versatile world of preserved lemons in this engaging episode. Hosted by John Becker and Megan Scott of The Joy of Creation Production House, along with co-host Shannon Larson, the show welcomes special guest Jordan Mishra Johnson. Jordan, a game designer and illustrator, brings her culinary insights and passion for cooking to the table, enriching the conversation with her unique perspectives and creative recipes.

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1. Opening Conversations: Embracing Kitchen Tools

The episode kicks off with a lively discussion about the practicality of kitchen tools, specifically garlic presses.

• John Becker shares his journey from being a garlic press skeptic to reconsidering its utility:

  “[...] We need to invest in one. This all came up right before we started recording.” (01:25)

• Megan Scott echoes this sentiment, advocating for the use of specialized tools without judgment:

  “If you want to use a garlic press, just use a garlic press. Like, who cares?” (01:45)

• Shannon Larson highlights the time-saving benefits, despite initial reservations:

  “I don't have one for that reason. I was told that it's something you shouldn't have, but I'm also like, that would save me so much time.” (01:45)

This segment underscores the evolving attitudes towards kitchen gadgets, emphasizing functionality over culinary elitism.

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2. Culinary Adventures: Dinner Parties and Favorite Dishes

The hosts share personal anecdotes about hosting dinner parties and favorite recipes, emphasizing simplicity and spontaneity in cooking.

• Shannon Larson discusses overcoming reluctance to host:

  “[...] It can be extremely casual, like frozen beyond burgers. It's just.” (03:37)

• Megan Scott praises the ease of spontaneous cooking:

  “We just kind of did it, and it didn't need to be planned that much.” (03:53)

• John Becker highlights recent kitchen projects:

  “Made the miso ramen for the recipe club. Did up, like, a chashu pork, so that's, like, a whole process.” (04:58)

Key dishes discussed include roasted carrots, miso ramen, and rhubarb conserve, showcasing the hosts' versatility and creativity in the kitchen.

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3. Special Guest: Jordan Mishra Johnson and "Drawn Hungry"

Jordan Mishra Johnson brings her expertise and creativity as a game designer to the conversation. She introduces her culinary card game, "Drawn Hungry," which blends game mechanics with meal preparation.

• Jordan Mishra Johnson explains her game:

  “It's a cozy culinary card game where players prepare meals for special occasions using lusciously illustrated ingredient and dish cards.” (20:45)

• Megan Scott praises the game's charm:

  “That's such a good description. That made me want to play it right away.” (21:03)

Jordan shares her passion for using art to inspire cooking and discusses how the game fosters creativity in meal planning. Her favorite recipes, such as pani puris and rice bowls, are highlighted as examples of her culinary ingenuity.

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4. Preserved Lemons: A Deep Dive into Flavor and Preservation

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the multifaceted uses of preserved lemons, an ingredient beloved for its unique flavor profile.

• John Becker delves into the science of preserved lemons:

  “[...] you end up with something that's like. At least one study was saying that it's like a pH of 2.5 or something and, you know, super low.” (13:59)

• Megan Scott explores creative uses:

  “I was also thinking it would be really good just mix into some mayonnaise for like sandwiches. It would add something interesting, like a pop of sour flavor that I think would be delicious.” (40:53)

• Shannon Larson shares practical advice:

  “This week's theme is preserved lemons. [...] We're rehabilitating garlic presses on this episode.” (11:34)

The hosts discuss various recipes incorporating preserved lemons, such as preserved lemon dip, chermoula, and innovative beverages like salty lemonade. They also explore the longevity and preservation methods, providing listeners with both scientific insights and practical tips.

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5. Featured Recipes and Cooking Techniques

The episode is rich with recipes and culinary techniques shared by the hosts and guest.

• Roasted Carrots by Megan Scott:

  “Peel, cut lengthwise, toss with melted butter, Dijon mustard, honey, roast until caramelized, garnish with feta and herbs.” (04:05)

• Miso Ramen with Chashu Pork by John Becker:

  “Used a pressure cooker for braising pork belly in soy sauce, mirin, sake, ginger, and green onion.” (05:13)

• Banana Bread by Jordan Mishra Johnson:

  “Double batch using frozen bananas, added walnuts, and considering shredded coconut for a tropical twist.” (07:26)

• Chermoula – a North African condiment, adapted with preserved lemon puree:

  “[...] It's a North African condiment. [...] We subbed a little bit of the preserved lemon, just puree for the lemon juice, and it was delicious.” (16:44)

These recipes emphasize ease, adaptability, and the integration of preserved lemons to enhance flavors.

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6. Cooking Tips and Ingredient Spotlights

The hosts offer valuable cooking tips, emphasizing the importance of seasoning and herb usage.

• Salt Usage: John Becker passionately discusses his preference for adequate salting:

  “You can always come back from that. You can't come back from oversalting.” (27:09)

• Herbs Abundance: Jordan highlights the versatility and accessibility of fresh herbs:

  “We use mint a lot for pani puris. It's this delicious Indian dish that my husband introduced to me.” (24:43)

• Preserved Lemon Utilization: Megan suggests incorporating preserved lemon into various dishes:

  “Mix into some mayonnaise for like sandwiches. It would add something interesting, like a pop of sour flavor.” (40:53)

These insights aim to empower listeners to experiment with flavors and improve their cooking techniques.

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7. Listener Interaction and Community Engagement

The episode fosters community engagement by inviting listeners to share their cooking experiences and questions.

• Highlighted Listener Questions:

  “I recently made Joy of Cooking's Chicken Tagine with Chickpeas. You use preserved lemons in the recipe, and I have a whole jar of preserved lemons. What are some of your favorite recipes with preserved lemons?” (37:07)

• Upcoming Topics:

  “Next week's topic comes from our caller... we're tackling cooking with duck eggs.” (36:58)

These interactions create a sense of community and encourage listeners to participate actively in future discussions.

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8. Closing Remarks and Future Plans

As the episode wraps up, the hosts share their upcoming culinary plans, such as baking projects and dining out, further personalizing the conversation.

• Shannon Larson anticipates baking week:

  “So calling this week baking week. And then we do have plans to go to Canard on Friday with some friends.” (41:39)

• Megan Scott discusses future recipes:

  “I'm probably gonna do a French grated carrot salad with lemon and Dijon mustard. And honestly, maybe some preserved lemon.” (42:53)

These plans provide listeners with a glimpse into the hosts' personal culinary journeys, inspiring them to explore similar endeavors.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Garlic Press Debate

  "If you want to use a garlic press, just use a garlic press. Like, who cares?" – Megan Scott (01:45)

• Preserved Lemon Science

  “[...] it's like a pH of 2.5 or something and, you know, super low.” – John Becker (13:59)

• Jordan on "Drawn Hungry"

  “It's Apples to Apples meets Top Chef.” – Jordan Mishra Johnson (21:03)

• Salt Philosophy

  “You can't come back from oversalting.” – John Becker (27:09)

• Creative Recipe Ideas

  “Mix into some mayonnaise for like sandwiches. It would add something interesting, like a pop of sour flavor.” – Megan Scott (40:53)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast masterfully blends personal anecdotes, expert culinary tips, and creative recipe ideas centered around the versatile ingredient of preserved lemons. With engaging discussions and practical advice, hosts John Becker, Megan Scott, and Shannon Larson, alongside guest Jordan Mishra Johnson, invite listeners to explore and experiment in their own kitchens. Whether you're a seasoned home cook or just beginning your culinary journey, this episode offers valuable insights and inspiration to enhance your cooking repertoire.

Transcript

[Megan Scott]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan, and asparagus enthusiastic.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, and I think paella is a great weeknight dinner.

[John Becker]

I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook, and I'm a recovering garlic press hater. It's been too long since we were told that they were bad.

[Shannon Larson]

Wait, are you using them now?

[John Becker]

No, I think we need to. We need to invest in one. This all came up right before we started recording.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I feel like there was an era of where unitasking tools, quote unquote, unitasking tools were really hated upon by a certain contingent of food people. But now I'm also feeling like, if you want to use a garlic press, just use a garlic press. Like, who cares?

[Shannon Larson]

I don't have one for that reason. I was told that it's something you shouldn't have, but I'm also like, that would save me so much time.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I mean, if you hate peeling and chopping garlic, you just use a garlic press. Fine.

[John Becker]

Before the dark days when, you know, everybody started shunning garlic presses, my father, Ethan, he had like this one that had huge holes in it and it just like, it produced like this nice, chunky.

[Megan Scott]

That was a really good one.

[John Becker]

It was a good one.

[Megan Scott]

You never. Yeah, I feel like that one's just gone. I don't know what happened to it.

[John Becker]

Well, it was Italian, and I feel like it was just aluminum and it just would discolor after repeated washing. Yeah, we might have even put it in the dishwasher.

[Sarah Marshall]

Ooh.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I know. Shannon, what have you been cooking this week?

[Shannon Larson]

I think you can probably tell, but I was sick for a little while and I'm finally getting over it, but it is slow going. It's just hanging out in my head. So I didn't cook very much, you guys, but as I've been getting better, one thing I'm trying to do is push myself to have more dinner parties. Like random dinner parties too. I feel like I've been kind of prone to not having people over the past year as much. I don't know why that is, you know, getting older. I sleep early. So you guys came over one night.

[Megan Scott]

Well, we all go to sleep early now, so it's fine.

[Shannon Larson]

Dinner at five, in bed by nine.

[John Becker]

This is depressing.

[Megan Scott]

No, I like going to sleep early.

[Shannon Larson]

So, yeah, I had, you know, you two over and some other friends. And then Friday night, John and I pulled out the grill, and we were making veggie burgers and just randomly invited two other friends. And then we were like, do you guys have dinner plans? We just ended up making dinner together, and it was just so. And I feel like I tend to overthink having friends over and having dinner parties, and I need to stop doing that. It can be extremely casual, like frozen beyond burgers. It's just.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, totally. Yeah. Well, and I loved when we came over, it was like we had all had some plans canceled, and so I had already planned on making this roasted carrot dish. And you were just like, I'm gonna roast a chicken. And we just kind of did it, and it didn't need to be planned that much.

[Shannon Larson]

Also, roasting a chicken is, like, the easiest thing you can do for a crowd. We didn't have to think about it. We just threw it in the oven, and then there's, like, a main, and nobody had to worry about the main. Anyway, it was great. I'm putting focus on that.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I was gonna talk about the roasted carrots that I made and brought over because it's such an easy and good recipe. And also, we've gotten carrots every single week in our CSA all winter long. And I like carrots, but, man, it's really stretched my ability to, like, figure out what to do with them. But this roasted carrot dish is really good. It's just peeled, like, carrots that are cut lengthwise into, like, halves or quarters. And then I toss them with melted butter, Dijon mustard, and honey, and salt and pepper, roast them until they're kind of caramelized and the butter gets browned, and then just garnish with feta and either dill or mint, or both, if you have both. But so simple and really delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

So good. And it's so beautiful on the table, too. So it's a good thing to bring over, like, for a dinner party. It's easy, but it's also very stunning.

[Megan Scott]

So thanks.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

Made the miso ramen for the recipe club. Did up, like, a chashu pork, so that's, like, a whole process. And I think that the theme last episode was vegetarian noodles, so kind of broke with that, but.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Well, can you say a little bit about what chashu pork is?

[John Becker]

Take a pork belly with the skin on, then you roll it, tie it into a cylinder and then braise it in soy sauce, mirin, sake, ginger and green onion and, oh, yeah, plenty of garlic.

[Megan Scott]

And you did it in the instant pot, too?

[John Becker]

Yeah, yeah. Our recipe is just like a standard stovetop simmer. But like most things, you know, it's pretty easy to adapt for the pressure cooker, the braising liquid, I mean, it's really good, but it's not like you're going to be depending on that to, like, evaporate or concentrate. So not too much to really adjust for the pressure cooker when you don't really need to thicken the liquid.

[Megan Scott]

It was delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

It was. We got the little piece and the texture was so good. It was like, not dry at all.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

It was delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

Thank you.

[John Becker]

Oh, you're welcome.

[Megan Scott]

Loved it.

[John Becker]

That and. Oh, yeah, rhubarb conserve.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, yeah. We made. Or John. Not we. John made it. John made the rhubarb conserve for canning club, which we ended up not having this week, but now we're ready, so. And that's a really, really good joy recipe. It's got, like, golden raisins in it and fresh ginger, citrus, just thinly sliced.

[John Becker]

Lemon rounds, quartered oranges that have been thinly sliced. You know, you just remove the seeds. So it's kind of got a little bit of a marmalade feel to it. Yeah, just that acidity. Plus the rhubarb's acidity. It's really delicious.

[Megan Scott]

This week we'd like to welcome Jordan Mishra Johnson to the table. Jordan grew up in Oregon's wine country, hub of Yamhill County, Oregon. She studied business administration and fine art at the University of Oregon. She has worked as a digital digital media specialist at the boutique hospitality public relations firm Broussard Communications, the associate editor of Fresh cup magazine, and a dishwasher at the small French restaurant Cuvee in Carlton, Oregon. Jordan is the designer and creator of Drawn Hungry, a cozy culinary card game. Jordan, welcome to the table.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Hello. I'm so excited to be here.

[Megan Scott]

Well, thanks for joining us. What have you been eating or cooking this week?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah, we just had family over yesterday, so my husband made a bunch of Indian food. I brought some for you today day.

[Megan Scott]

Thank you.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Some roast chicken, chickpea curry with fried paneer. And I actually just made the banana bread recipe from the Joy of Cooking oh, lovely.

[Megan Scott]

How it turn out?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Wonderful. Yeah. Made a recipe, double batch. We had six frozen bananas sitting in the freezer. And I was like, you know what? I feel like some banana bread tonight.

[Megan Scott]

I love that feeling. And when you can just do it.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. It's a really simple recipe too, which is nice. You just kind of toss it all together and pop it in the oven and one hour later you got dessert.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. We actually recently made that recipe and I made a small tweak to it that actually makes it easier. I just melt the butter. I don't beat the butter anymore with the sugar. I just melt it, add it, and it's fine.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Love that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Do you add the optional apricots or leave them out?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

We didn't have any apricots. Like I said. This was a very sort of just like, oh, I feel like banana bread tonight. I did add in walnuts and I was talking to my husband. I think we might add in some shredded coconut next time.

[Megan Scott]

That would be delicious.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. Just for a little tropical take on.

[Megan Scott]

Banana bread, definitely recommend the apricots if and when you have them. They're very good. It was kind of a weird the first time I made that recipe. I was like, I don't know about this.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

They're kind of tart, so they add a nice acidity to the bread and. Yeah. Chewiness.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Ooh.

[Megan Scott]

Do you ever take your leftover banana bread? Left? I don't know what that means. Do you ever take your banana bread and brown a slice in butter in a skillet?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Oh, no. I did take some toasted in the toaster, added butter and then extra salt. I love that. Extra salt on there.

[Megan Scott]

Yes. So good. It's definitely. Try it in a non stick skillet with just a little butter and it gets really like griddle it and then put the salt, the flaky salt on there.

[John Becker]

Delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like a scoop of vanilla ice cream, too.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, heck, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Like, be perfect.

[John Becker]

See, it was. It was giving breakfast vibes, but now.

[Megan Scott]

We'Re just escalating it. Yeah. Jordan, what are you excited to cook now that it's kind of springtime?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I am just so excited for fresh vegetables. We have started some plants from seed. So we've got like some sugar snap peas, some zucchini leeks. There's kale. We're going to have some arugula. So just like all the fresh garden veggies.

[Megan Scott]

Yes. That's my favorite. I'm so excited. I've also started some seeds and I'm. I check on Them multiple times a day. Like, have you grown yet?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Have you grown?

[Megan Scott]

Are you still growing? You okay?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

That's me. You get stressed. You go down, you look at the plants. You're like, oh, okay.

[Megan Scott]

You're okay. I planted some eggplant seeds, so they are coming up, but they're still, like, an inch tall. So we're gonna see where they're at when it's time to plant them.

[Shannon Larson]

That's soon, right?

[Megan Scott]

Well, I think actually so in the Pacific, at least in Portland, I kind of look for temperatures at night to be above 50 degrees. And we're still looking for at least for the next week, it's gonna still be in the 40s. And so I don't want to plant anything that, you know, like eggplant or anything super summery. I feel like we'll just not appreciate the cold weather. So this week's theme is preserved lemons. And Sarah, our producer, made a preserved lemon dip for us to try. Sarah, what else is in it other than preserved lemon?

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, I'll post the recipe on the website. I'll link it in the show notes, but it's just sour cream, Greek yogurt, preserved lemon, some of our hot sauce, and salt and pepper. That's it. It's super easy. But my tip, because the question was about using up extra preserved lemon, is to use the garlic press with the preserved lemon so it keeps the seed back so you don't get the bitterness and you don't have to chop it up. So the nice thing about this dip is you don't have to pull out any equipment other than that extra garlic press. And I am pro garlic press all the time.

[Shannon Larson]

That's good to know that in there.

[Megan Scott]

We're rehabilitating garlic presses on this episode.

[Shannon Larson]

We need to do a little deep dive into what garlic presses to. To get.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Which ones will.

[Sarah Marshall]

Stainless steel.

[Shannon Larson]

Stainless steel. Noted.

[Megan Scott]

But that's great advice, too. And that, honestly, that makes it not a unitasker anymore. You can use it for that. Yeah. All right, so let's taste this dip. Gonna pass it around.

[Shannon Larson]

And thank you for the side of pickles, Sarah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

What a spread.

[Megan Scott]

I know. It's beautiful. It looks very springy.

[Shannon Larson]

It's really, really good on the radish, the lemoniness.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

And then you get just that little bit of spice with the radish. Just a little bit of bite right there at the end. That's really nice.

[Shannon Larson]

Also, what a nice, easy thing to make for a dinner party type of situation, too.

[Megan Scott]

So, Yeah, I love dip. Dip is such a good kitchen friend. Yeah. Like dip is. Everyone always loves dip. It's so easy to make. Yeah. And just cut up some veggies. Are you supposed to dip. Are we supposed to dip the pickles in the dip as well? Oh, yeah, I'm gonna try that.

[John Becker]

Yeah. The preserved lemon has a really interesting flavor. So, yeah, I was doing a little bit of research. This actually came up when we had Julia Skinner on, because I asked her if she knew preserved lemons, like, if there was any lactic acid fermentation going on, just because it's such a low ph. And it really is. You're quartering lemons, not all the way through, just so they stay together. You're packing them with salt. Then you put them into a jar with even more salt, like on the bottom and the top, and then you just, like, let it sit. And that salt is going to be drawing out all of the oils, all of the juices from the lemons. But, yeah, you end up with something that's like. At least one study was saying that it's like a ph of 2.5 or something and, you know, super low. You know, most lactic. Most lactic acid fermentation is taking place at, like, 4 or something like that. And it's also super salty, which also inhibits, like, a lot of lactic acid bacteria. But I guess it does select for some. But I was reading this study that was saying that salt preserved lemons usually go for quite a while, or you can definitely leave them for quite a while without really anything happening to them. But, yeah, they left it for, like, 52 days, and they found a bunch of yeast in there. That was the primary organisms that were around. There were no lactic acid bacteria. But I guess they do have lactic acid in them, but it's just not very much.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that is a really. I don't know, this is like one of those very niche cooking subjects that we get really interested in and nerdy about. But, yeah, it's like, is it actually fermentation or is it just curing? But I guess there's probably always some small level of, you know, there's bacteria everywhere. There's bacteria at the bottom of the ocean. So there's probably bacteria in salt, preserved lemons, you know, and yeast. And yeast, yeah. Exactly.

[Shannon Larson]

How long would you say you can leave, like, a jar of preserved lemons in your fridge?

[Megan Scott]

Well, we were just talking to John's mom about this yesterday, and she said she had a jar in her fridge for about three years and that she Ended up throwing it away at the end of three years because it didn't taste as good. But it's. It wasn't bad. You know, it wasn't moldy or anything like that. I think it just. The flavor may degrade over time.

[John Becker]

And that. That was in the refrigerator.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

So.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. But years, indefinitely. They last a long time. So we all made the miso ramen this week. What did you think, Shannon?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I loved it. We made it last night. Yeah. We did have some of your delicious pork, so. Thank you. I also am such a fan of corn kernels and ramen. It just makes everything brighter, and it's just. It's, like, fun to eat. We also paired it with a little bit of pork crumbles and seaweed, of course, and it was delightful. Love it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I also love corn on ramen. It's like veggie boba or something.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Kind of just. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

It's actually fun to eat little corn. And it's so easy.

[Megan Scott]

So it calls for some kind of stocker broth, and you add, like, miso and other things to it. But what did you use as the base?

[Shannon Larson]

So we make our own chicken broth because we just put all of our scraps in the freezer in some bags and, you know, chicken carcasses. And so we have quarts of chicken broth in our deep freezer. So we used homemade chicken broth. And then I didn't have any red miso on hand, so I used white miso, and it worked great. And then. Yeah, I mean, I love mirin. Like, the addition of the mirin. We didn't have sake at home, so we just used a little extra rice vinegar, too, just to have that, like, vinegary flavor. And it's such an easy, like, adaptable recipe. Like, whatever you have on hand, you can kind of just throw it together and it works.

[John Becker]

Yeah. You know, we call for red miso in that recipe, but I think I did half white miso, half red, and it was really good. I mean, I feel like it's pretty. Unless you're going for, like, that really, really dark, hot show miso. Like, there are sweet misos out there that probably wouldn't be so great, but.

[Megan Scott]

But, yeah, you can use.

[John Becker]

Pretty adaptable.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, exactly. So that was our Joy Scouts recipe of the last week. And this week, since our topic is preserved lemons, we're asking folks to make the chermoula recipe on page 586. Thank you. So, chermoula John, actually, you made it yesterday. Can you talk a little Bit about what it is and what's in it.

[John Becker]

Sure, sure. Well, first of all, it's a North African condiment. And also it's used as a marinade, typically for fish. But really it's. It's so much more versatile. I remember when we first tested it, I had a hard time not eating it with it with a spoon. This happens with me in condiments.

[Megan Scott]

So, yeah, John's a condiment person.

[John Becker]

I guess it's not. What did you call me? Has some cilantro, has some parsley, some chili, coriander. Coriander, cumin, white pepper.

[Megan Scott]

I put black pepper in it. But our recipe calls for black or white pepper, so.

[John Becker]

And yeah, so, like, some optional saffron in there, too. And then usually it's lemon juice and olive oil. But yeah, so usually our recipe in particular calls for 2 tablespoons of lemon juice. And I was reading, you know, when I was researching preserved lemon, that preserved lemon is often used in some parts. Some parts of North Africa for making charmoula. So I added 1 tablespoon tablespoon. Yeah, that's right. So we subbed a little bit of the preserved lemon, just puree for the lemon juice, and it was delicious.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we have a jar of actually pureed preserved lemon. So all the seeds are already taken out, and it's just in a nice. It's a very convenient form. But if you. If you just have preserved lemons, just.

[John Becker]

You know, just use the rind.

[Megan Scott]

Just use the rind. Chop it up super fine. Don't have to worry about actually blending it.

[John Becker]

Or use a garlic.

[Shannon Larson]

I was just going to say.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Or use the garlic press. It's such a good idea.

[John Becker]

But, yeah, we made some other adjustments to that recipe because we were kind of interested in just having it as a table sauce. So instead of having, like a minced onion in there, we used some chives from the garden that we used, as well as some scallion. We definitely added a little bit more olive oil to kind of take it into a saucier direction than the kind of pasty marinade that the recipe ends up usually giving you.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And I would also say that with the preserved lemon added, just watch how much extra salt you add, because that stuff is so salty. You really don't need much beyond the preserved lemon.

[Shannon Larson]

And what do you pair it with?

[Megan Scott]

We did just, like, pan roasted chicken, so chicken thighs, and it was great with that.

[John Becker]

Yeah. I want to use the rest of it either for like, slow roasting, like a. Maybe a salmon filet or I was actually thinking about maybe grilling some fish. It's gonna be raining, but whatever. You can't let that stop you.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, you can't let rain stop you from grilling. Not here, not here. So, yeah, please make the Cherboula recipe tag us on instagram @the joyofcooking. Or you can use the hashtag joyscouts. And yeah, look forward to making that again this week and using it on some fish.

[Sarah Marshall]

Sarah Marshall of Marshall's Hot Sauce here, looking for a hot sauce that's a little different. Let me introduce you to Tortuga Gordo fermented hot sauce, makers of the good food award winning Green Cobra and rotten Jerk hot sauces out of Portland, Oregon. Tortuga Gordo is waiting for you in the refrigerator section of market of choice, New Seasons and your local co op or bodega. Or find them online at www.tortucagordo.com. that's T O R T U G A G-O-R- Dash-O.com. they're not with the other hot sauces because they're not like the other hot sauces.

[Megan Scott]

All right, Jordan, so you are a card game designer creator. What title do you prefer?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I go by game designer and illustrator.

[Megan Scott]

Nice.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah. So I spent well over a thousand hours just on the artwork for the game, and I feel like that deserves.

[Megan Scott]

Yes. Recognition. Ignition.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Ignition in the title. Yeah, absolutely.

[Megan Scott]

It looks like you did. It looks like you spent a thousand hours just illustrating it. It's the illustration. So the game that Jordan designed and illustrated and made is called Drawn Hungry. And could you just explain briefly, like, how the game works and what it, what it's about?

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

So it's a cozy culinary card game where players prepare meals for special occasions using lusciously illustrated ingredient and dish cards. I tell people, like, my one liner is, it's Apples to Apples meets Top Chef.

[Megan Scott]

I love that. That's such a good description. That made me want to play it right away.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I think it's a good time.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And they, they are. I mean, this is, you know, a podcast, so we can actually show you what it looks like. But you should look it up because the illustrations are absolutely adorable. All of the cards have bunnies on them.

[Shannon Larson]

So cute.

[Megan Scott]

They're so cute. Why bunnies?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I'm a bunny mama. I got a bunny at home. Her name is Smudge and she's a naughty lady and I love her so much.

[Megan Scott]

Sounds like how we talk about our cats so bad, but I love them so much.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, I feel like it's really nice because you can get so much inspiration from the cards, too. Just like in your everyday cooking life. Like, if you're like. Honestly, I'm like, you could just pick a card and then be like, when you're. I don't know what to make for dinner, it's almost like a little.

[Megan Scott]

Do you ever use it that way?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I feel like I have the cards out so much that I'm just always getting inspiration for, like, what to make. I have, as part of my YouTube series, a pitch to plate challenge. So I'm actually taking, like, the things that people are doing pitching in the game and then, like, making them. One recent thing that I made was a spaghetti lasagna combo, AKA a spaghania. And I need to trademark that because I feel like that's going to be a thing. It was delicious. Did you.

[Megan Scott]

What was it, like a tomato sauce and did it have a ricotta filling or what was going on?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

So I actually took the Joy of Cooking marinara made that, and there was also a bechamel. So we had two sauces going on in the spaghagna. It's just a fun word to say.

[Shannon Larson]

It's really fun.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

It does remind me of, I think my grandmother, when I was little, she would make, I don't remember exactly what she called it, but it was essentially a spaghetti casserole. But it was all, you know, everything was just. There was no layering. It was. Everything was mixed together and it had cheese on top and it got crusty.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I just remember thinking it was great.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

So this was pitched by Katie Osuna, who has the Copper and Heat podcast. She did a layer of spaghetti with marinara, a layer of eggplant and zucchini, layer of caramelized onions. Then we did that again and then topped it with the bechamel. Whoa.

[Shannon Larson]

So good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's great.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I love those leftovers.

[Megan Scott]

That's so fun. You mentioned that you wanted to talk about using herbs in cooking.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

You're a big herb fan.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

We always have mint and cilantro at our house. Two constants. I don't know why mint is so expensive at American grocery stores. It boggles me.

[Megan Scott]

Boggles the mind. Like it's a weed. Like it's invasive.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

You can't control it. Why is it so expensive of here for just a little pouch?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I know. We are always getting it at, like, the local Asian market because you can get an actually decent quantity for not very much money.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Exactly. We just moved in, like, down the street from a Hong Fat I'm like, nice. So great. Now we can just run and grab, you know, a big bunch before we make our, our food.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I agree though. Those little plastic clamshells of herbs that you get at a regular grocery store that are just so expensive. I feel like a chomp every time I buy one and I hate it.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I hate it. Yeah.

[John Becker]

So that's what makes Hong fa Happy place.

[Megan Scott]

I know. Yeah. All the herbs you want for like a dollar a bunch. It's great.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Agreed. We use mint a lot for pani puris. So it's this delicious Indian dish that my husband introduced to me. It consists of like a cornmeal sort of like puff. You like break open one side of it, you fill it with a mashed potato and chickpea mixture and then you dunk it into this spicy cold mint water. And then you just like pop it all in your mouth and it's like that sensation of like spicy but cold and minty. And then there's a creamy element and crunchy just like blows your mind. I want some.

[Megan Scott]

So good. Do you buy the, the pre made pani puri? Like the shells?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

My husband keeps on threatening that we're going to try to make the puffs like at home and that day hasn't happened yet. But I'm like sure that we'll have a day where just like our whole kitchen becomes so like greasy from like frying all of them and then we'll just have like a ton. We'll have like a whole pani puri party and have people come over.

[Megan Scott]

Such a great idea.

[John Becker]

Yeah, you'd have to. If you're going to be making them from scratch, you better have a party.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Oh, you have to share. Like I'm super excited. But yeah, we just get the clamshells at like the Indian market and those are great.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So to make the minty, like the minty sauce that you dip them in, is it just what, what is in that?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah. So there's like tamarind paste, there's mint hing, there's usually lime ginger paste is in there, little salt. I am the official pani puri water tester, so my husband will make it. He's like, come over, like, give it a taste. I'll be like, it needs a little more hang, it needs a little more min. Something like that.

[Megan Scott]

I love getting to be the taster. It's such a fun job.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

It is.

[Megan Scott]

John lets me taste all of his creations and it's very fun.

[John Becker]

Yeah, well, that's, that's My way of delegating responsibility here.

[Megan Scott]

If it tastes bad, it's your fault. Yeah.

[John Becker]

I've over salted things enough that I get really concerned about it. So.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. John has a salt tooth. Not a sweet tooth, but it's. I, I think that's an asset. I think most people don't salt things enough.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I'm. I'm guilty of not salting enough. I'm always scared that I'm gonna over salt. So I under salt.

[John Becker]

I'm like, oh, well, you can always come back from that.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

You can't come back from oversalting.

[Megan Scott]

Right.

[John Becker]

Or it's very hard.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. But usually it's fine. Like, usually it's not. We. It's not like a throw it away situation. It's just. It's a little salty, you know?

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. The pickled bamboo shoots, they were a little salty, but they were fun.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Yeah, I was trying. That was the first time I'd ever made those. I think I was just like looked at a momofuku recipe and yeah, they were. It was kind of a lackadaisical, like, you should eyeball this recipe. And that's what I did and.

[Megan Scott]

But they turned out well.

[John Becker]

Yeah, that's pretty good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. You're your own harshest critic.

[Shannon Larson]

Yep. Jordan, any favorite easy weeknight meal recipes that you go to often?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Oh, yeah, totally. We have created our own rice bowl based off of like Cafe Yum. And a whole bowl, I would say usually like twice a week. I just got burnout. I was like, no more yumbles for a while. But usually we'll just like have a pot of rice, throw a can of bean like black beans on with a little bit of taco seasoning. We'll chop up a bunch of tomatoes and onions, cilantro. I have my secret Yum. Sauce that I make.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, nice.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Just plain yogurt, nutritional yeast, soy, salt and a little garlic powder. Just mix that up and of course, some avocados and just assemble everything together and like you got dinner in 20 minutes.

[Shannon Larson]

Perfect.

[John Becker]

Yeah. You know, the, the whole bowl is definitely like one of our go to, like on the go lunches. But you, you've been making like a thali sauce. It's a little bit different.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I make their special sauce. I found a copycat recipe online for hobo sauce. And yeah, it has, has a lot of. Well, not a lot, but it has nutritional yeast in it. It has chickpeas in it that get creamy when you blend it up. I can't remember what else is in it. It's like lemon juice, garlic powder, the usual suspects. But it's really good. And yeah, I make that a lot for lunches during the week. Gotta have those black olives on there. There's something about those black olives, the California olives. I know they're so weird, but I love them.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Oh, no. I am so not an olive person. That's the thing I like when I order, I'm like, I want a big bowl, no olives.

[Megan Scott]

Jordan, what is your relationship with the Joy of Cooking? Did is it a cookbook you grew up with?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah. So my grandma Rissi, she has a collection of first edition cookbooks. And so the Joy of Cooking has just always been on her shelf. And she's the kind of person that loved to just pick up a cookbook every night and read before bed. I was like, looking through her copy and I was like, oh, yeah, I remember having this. She made the baklava a few times and it was just sort of like in the ether around me when I was growing up. I probably didn't like, see it or have anything from it for a few years. And then when I gave you a copy of John Hungry, you are so Kind and gave me a copy of Joy 2019 Edition. And I've actually been reading it a lot recently. Between, like, illustrating and my day job and being a business owner, I look at a computer screen way too much these days. So it's just been like, going through and reading it has just been really lovely.

[Megan Scott]

Is there anything that stands out as, like, you, something you really loved or were interested by recently?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I think in a recent episode, you were talking about the sourdough, like, section that you add into the 2019 edition. So I was just like, going through and reading that. I had my sourdough phase, like, many years ago pre. Pre Covid. And I, like, I literally spent like two months just, just I wanted to get that perfect boule and I got it and I was like, okay, I'm done. I am done spending all this money on flour and feeding this thing every day. And I achieved what I set out to do, and now I'm good. It was really nice just like going through and reading about the whole process. And that was just, just a fun, fun little thing for a night. Just reading about how to make sourdough.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I actually really enjoyed writing that section. That was a very fun section to write. I remember trying to like, make it more comprehensible for people because there's a lot of kind of sourdough lore out there. About you gotta keep it on a heating mat. You gotta keep it. I don't know, there's just a lot of like very picky things that people say to do. And I found that you actually don't have to do most of those things. Like, it's pretty resilient. I mean, it may not always turn out perfectly, but keeping a sourdough starter is not that hard.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

You may get a few bubble overs.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that happens. That happens way. How do you like the illustrations in Joy? I don't know if you've compared like the. You have a copy of the 1975 here that you brought today. That was your grandmother's. And I do really love the illustrations in this one. These are all done by an artist named Ikki Matsumoto who was a student of Charlie Harper, who illustrated all the cool like geometric looking birds. I don't know, you've pro. You've probably seen them, but may have not put a name to it.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

But he studied. Ikki Matsumoto studied with Charlie Harper. And then the most recent edition was done by John Norton, who is like a textbook illustrator. So he does a lot of science textbooks and things like that. And he. So he illustrated the 2019 and the 2006. So they're like slightly different styles, but they're just kind of fun to like compare and look at.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

It's so fun to look through. And like, for me, I'm thinking like all the really cool ways that line weight is used in the illustration in order to like convey different techniques. And it's just a really, really pleasant. On the eyes.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And it's kind of nice to get a change from photos sometimes. Like I love a really beautifully photographed cookbook. But yeah, there's something timeless about illustrations that I just love.

[Shannon Larson]

You can like put yourself into the book in a different kind of way.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah. Agree. Jordan, what condiment gets the most use in your kitchen?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

It's very basic. Ketchup.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, ketchup.

[John Becker]

America's mother sauce.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Also the flavor Society Pizza chili crisp. We use that all the time.

[Megan Scott]

I don't think I've had that one.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

You have not highly recommend. I made pizza, deviled eggs with it and so good. It was a hit this last Christmas.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, that's so fun.

[Megan Scott]

Other than the chili crisp, what else did you put? Was that the main flavoring?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I also got like a Saucissance Olympia provision sausage and crisp that up in like a cast iron skillet, mix that in as well for sort of like a little sausage crisp Crunch.

[Megan Scott]

That's so smart.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

It was great.

[Shannon Larson]

I've got parties on the brain. But it would be so fun to do like a deviled egg party where everybody bring a different like weird deviled egg.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

You just have to invite me.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, yeah, I want this pizza. Deviled egg.

[Megan Scott]

It's like pure opulence.

[John Becker]

Easter's coming.

[Megan Scott]

Deviled eggs is like the, the most expensive thing you can right now.

[John Becker]

One of our favorite places to go restaurant wise. They took the deviled eggs off their menu.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Bellwether.

[Megan Scott]

They took them off the menu. I mean everything on the menu is still really good. But I was sad that the deviled eggs are gone.

[Shannon Larson]

Beat deviled egg. Oh, those are so good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Jordan, where can listeners follow you?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah, I have a YouTube series. We post the Drawn Hungry dinner party. I get chefs and foodie friends to join me for a game of Drawn Hungry on camera in delightful destinations. Also at Drawn Hungry on Instagram and TikTok. And you can check out my website.

[Megan Scott]

Drawnhungry.Com and can people buy the game on your website?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

They sure can.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome. Definitely pick up a copy of the game. It's beautiful and super fun. It's a really good game for like families or just, I mean it's good for adults too. But yeah, it's, it's beautiful and, and delightful.

[John Becker]

I was thinking that like maybe this is a use case that just doesn't come up very often. But it did seem like it would be cool to have a dinner party kind of club situation where like a group meets to play the game and then the winning, you know, meal, you know, whoever wins has to host the next dinner party and make all the stuff from that.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

That's like my dream. I want there to be like a drawn hungry club and you know, like you have to make something that you pitched this time for the next get.

[Megan Scott]

Together and that would be so fun.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I gotta make that happen someday.

[Megan Scott]

Let's do it.

[Shannon Larson]

Just do all the parties, you guys.

[Megan Scott]

I know dinner parties every week.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I love honeypoor party.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Sarah Marshall]

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[Megan Scott]

So each week we choose a topic to tackle based on caller suggestions. And this week, we're talking about preserved lemons. Sarah, can you read the question?

[Sarah Marshall]

I recently made Joy of Cooking's Chicken Tagine with Chickpeas. You use preserved lemons in the recipe, and I have a whole jar of preserved lemons. What are some of your favorite recipes with preserved lemons?

[John Becker]

For the latest edition, we actually added quite a few recipes that either have preserved lemon as, like, a suggested ingredient or just, you know, it's just built right into the recipe. But, you know, shakshuka is definitely something you can add the preserved lemon to. It's really good with that. Rice salad with chicken and olives is another dish that we added.

[Megan Scott]

That one is a sleeper. That one's really good. Rice salad doesn't sound that exciting for some reason, but it's.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Can you explain more what goes into that?

[John Becker]

Cooked short grain, white or brown rice, some spinach or arugula, diced cooked chicken. I mean, you know, this could be, like, leftover roasted chicken. Could be poached chicken, some bell pepper. You make a vinaigrette, and then you add the preserved lemon to the vinaigrette. And then. Yeah, some chopped green olives. Of course, you know, we're huge fans of Castelvetranos, and that's what we recommend here.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, that sounds fun.

[Megan Scott]

It's simple, but it's. Yeah, it's a great, like, lunch thing to have around, I think. I was also experimenting a little yesterday with using preserved lemon in a, like, a salty lemonade. So it's actually like a. A common Vietnamese drink is like salted lemonade or limeade, or sometimes you'll even see, like, kumquat kind of lemonade drink.

[John Becker]

Salted kumquat is so good.

[Megan Scott]

So good. There's a place locally that has it, and now I can't not get it when I go there. It's kind of a problem. It's super tangy and sweet and salty, and so it just is like, you just want to drink more and more of it. It's. It's my favorite. So Vietnamese salted lemons are done a little differently than North African preserved lemons. But so they basically make a brine, just a salty brine. So rather than packing the lemons in salt, you make a brine and you put the lemons in the brine and then they exude their juices and get soft over time. But you just take the preserved lemon like paste, or you chop it up really fine, put it in a glass with some simple syrup or whatever liquid sweetener you would put in a drink, and then just like crushed ice and water or sparkling water, and that's it. And it just has this super like tart, salty sweet. It's just all the thing. It's so refreshing. It's like what you want on a hot afternoon. There's something about adding the salt that makes it even more refreshing. But I definitely recommend doing that with preserved lemon, and that's the easy way to use it too.

[John Becker]

I did see some recipes for dirty martinis that I would.

[Megan Scott]

That also sounds great.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

That would be cool.

[Megan Scott]

Gotta.

[John Becker]

Gotta try that.

[Megan Scott]

Or Bloody Mary. I feel like it's. It would be perfect in a Bloody Mary mix. And then I make a celery and date salad with Parmesan. And I've. I haven't added preserved lemon to it, but I think it would be delicious in there.

[Shannon Larson]

We make that salad all the time too. And you're right. I. I actually love this question because I have a jar of preserved lemons in my fridge that have been sitting there for too long. So we're going to be eating a lot of them this week. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I feel like this is a common problem. Yeah, we also had one, but you are. We have a con. We have condiment problems. And so it was like in the back behind all these other jars. And I was. We just. I forget that it's there and then I don't use it, but. And then I was also thinking about. There's a salad dressing recipe in the 2019 edition that's called. What is it? It's like Megan's. It has my name on it.

[Shannon Larson]

That's my go to salad dressing.

[Megan Scott]

Preserved lemon is great in there. Just like stir a spoonful in. You don't really even need to adjust anything else in the recipe, I don't think. And then I was also thinking it would be really good. Just mix into some mayonnaise for like sandwiches. It would add something interesting, like a pop of sour flavor that I think would be delicious. Yeah.

[John Becker]

Or a compound butter. Be delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

You can dip French fries into something like that. That would be good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, absolutely. Roasted potatoes. Roasted potatoes. Yeah. Maybe probably just toss some with roasted potatoes. That would be great. If you have a topic, ingredient or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Sarah Marshall]

I recently got three dozen duck eggs from my brother in law. He's given me some in the past and I don't really eat them scrambled or fried. Are they better for baking or in a quiche? Any recipe ideas?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we'll look forward to answering that question next time and being very jealous also. All right, everybody, so what are we thinking about cooking this week?

[Shannon Larson]

I'm just excited to have an appetite back. I was eating just like sleeves of saltines for about a week. So we are also. It's baking week at our house. John is making sourdough. Speaking of sourdough. And we're gonna make some of Kathy Burrow's bagels this week. We just thought that would be fun. It's, it's like we just had a beautiful spring day here. We were outside in the garden and now it's raining again. So we're trying to look forward to inside tasks for the rest of the week and not feel sad.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

So calling this week baking week. And then we do have plans to go to Canard on Friday with some friends.

[Megan Scott]

Fun.

[Shannon Larson]

Always look forward to Gabriel Rucker's food. And that space is beautiful. And I'm just looking, I'm thinking I'm going to get the duck, but yeah.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah, get some oysters. Oh, it's so good there.

[Shannon Larson]

So excited. What about you all?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

I have some asparagus in the fridge that has got to get used up. We're heading to New York on Wednesday, going to cherry bomb jubilee. So using up all that produce in the fridge before we're out of town.

[Megan Scott]

Any thoughts on what you want to do with the asparagus?

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Probably like roast it with some zatar. That's a go to serve it with a quinoa salad.

[Megan Scott]

Lovely.

[Jordan Mishra Johnson]

Yeah, sounds so good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we're gonna. So we just got our last winter CSA this past week which contained yet again more carrots. Every week there's carrots. But luckily I had used up all the carrots previously. So I don't. I'm not working with a backlog. I'm usually, I've usually got a backlog where we've got like three bags of carrots and one is like we have to fifo fifo them you know, one's on top. It's like, okay, that's the oldest one. I gotta use that one first. But anyway, we got our last carrots for a while, so I'm probably gonna do, like, a French grated carrot salad with lemon and Dijon mustard. And honestly, maybe some preserved lemon.

[Shannon Larson]

Watch, now we just use preserved lemons. And in everything.

[Megan Scott]

I've also got some leftover buttermilk from a previous baking project. So I need to make. I'm gonna probably gonna make cornbread, since that's just super easy. But, yeah, I gotta use up that buttermilk.

[Shannon Larson]

And you love cornbread.

[Megan Scott]

I do. I love cornbread. I could eat it every day.

[John Becker]

Well, maybe we should pair that with some good mother Stallards.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah. We talked about this on the podcast with Steve Sando of Rancho Gordo. But the good mother Stallard beans that are notorious, I guess, very difficult to grow and often out of stock because they're the most delicious bean on the earth, but they had them in stock a couple weeks ago, and we ordered some. So now we can have good mother Stallards and some cornbread. What about you, John?

[John Becker]

Really just thinking about what to do with the Charmoula that we're going to be making more of.

[Megan Scott]

You should grill a whole fish.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

Okay. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review on Apple Podcast and itunes. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram @the joyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week, where we will tackle cooking with duck eggs. And don't forget to make this week's recipe Charmoula. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dresky, our production coordinator, Hayley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer.