A Casual Culinary Chat About Shallots With Dirk Marshall

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: A Casual Culinary Chat About Shallots with Dirk Marshall

Release Date: February 19, 2025

Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast, hosts John Becker, Megan Scott, and Shannon Larson welcome their special guest, Dirk Marshall. Dirk, the co-founder of Marshall's Hot Sauce and host of the podcast VHS, brings a fresh perspective to the table with his culinary experiences and passion for recipes. The episode delves into the versatile world of shallots, substitutions for pearl onions, and the intricacies of recipe writing, all while sharing personal cooking stories and insights.

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Opening Discussion: Onions, Shallots, and the Tears They Bring

The episode kicks off with a light-hearted conversation about the universal struggle of cutting onions. The hosts and Dirk share their personal anecdotes and coping mechanisms for dealing with the inevitable tears.

• Dirk Marshall (00:00): Opens with a simple greeting, setting the casual tone for the discussion.
• Shannon Larson (00:38): Introduces herself and sets the stage for weekly discussions about recipes, kitchen successes, and challenges.
• Megan Scott (00:58): Shares her role as a co-author of the cookbook and her knack for meal planning.
• John Becker (01:12): Talks about his efforts to avoid crying while chopping onions, humorously admitting his occasional failures.

A pivotal moment occurs when the group discusses the inefficacy and inconvenience of various onion-cutting tricks:

• John Becker (02:05): Highlights that overly sharp knives might be the real culprit behind tears: “...if you're crying every single time, that probably means you need to just.”
• Shannon Larson (02:18): Mentions trying the freezing trick to reduce the sting of onions.
• Megan Scott (02:32): Suggests using onion goggles as a practical solution.

Their camaraderie shines through as they joke about the practicality and ridiculousness of some solutions:

• John Becker (02:48): Teases about onion goggles being a "weird trick."
• Dirk Marshall (12:52): Confesses to actually owning and using onion goggles, adding authenticity to the conversation.

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Weekly Recipe Highlight: Roasted Shallots and Beyond

The main focus of the episode revolves around shallots, their versatility, and how they can be substituted in various recipes.

• Dirk Marshall (15:45): Introduces the roasted shallot recipe from the Joy of Cooking cookbook, embellishing it with a maple balsamic glaze: “...it just comes out so beautifully.”
• John Becker (22:29): Discusses modifications he made to the broccoli cheese casserole recipe, opting for roasted broccoli instead of steamed to enhance flavor.

The hosts share their experiences and tweaks:

• Megan Scott (24:32): Describes adding raclette and brebby rousse cheeses to elevate the dish.
• Shannon Larson (26:17): Appreciates the balance of vegetable flavor with cheese, noting, “...it felt like I was still getting my vegetables in.”

Dirk elaborates on the versatility of shallots in dishes, demonstrating their culinary importance.

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Guest Spotlight: Dirk Marshall’s Culinary Journey and Podcasting Passion

Dirk Marshall brings a wealth of experience from his role in the hot sauce industry and as a podcast host. His approach to following recipes meticulously contrasts with the hosts' more flexible methods, sparking an interesting dialogue about precision in cooking.

• Dirk Marshall (08:13): Expresses excitement about joining the show and emphasizes the importance of recipes: “...we’ve had so many talented cookbook authors and recipe writers, but nobody from my side of the table.”
• Shannon Larson (09:15): Playfully requests to watch Dirk follow a recipe, highlighting his reputation for precision.

Dirk discusses his culinary philosophy, stressing the therapeutic nature of detailed recipe execution and the joy of breaking down complex dishes:

• Dirk Marshall (11:16): “I love the breaking down of vegetables and things. I love the use and plus of everything. Like, I geek out over it, and it's very therapeutic for me.”

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Controversial Classic: The Squirrel Skinning Illustration

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the infamous illustration of a squirrel being skinned in older editions of the cookbook. The hosts explain the decision to remove this graphic depiction in favor of more humane and efficient techniques.

• John Becker (19:35): Describes the illustration as “the most infamous” and explains its removal: “We don’t recommend that technique anymore.”
• Megan Scott (20:14): Clarifies the removal wasn’t due to political correctness but rather to enhance the cookbook’s practicality: “We just want the book to be super useful and up to date with its information.”
• Dirk Marshall (21:37): Brings levity by joking about the illustration being a mindless decision and its lasting impacts, including a tattoo.

The discussion underscores the evolution of cooking practices and the cookbook’s commitment to providing relevant and ethical guidance.

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Recipe Substitutions: Handling the Lack of Shallots

Addressing a listener’s query about substituting pearl onions for shallots, the hosts offer expert advice on alternatives and best practices.

• Listener Question (40:27): “I was shopping recently for shallots and they were out. I bought pearl onions instead. Do you think this is a good replacement or do you have a better one?”

John Becker’s Response (40:36):

• Advises against using pearl onions as a direct substitute due to flavor and texture differences: “Onions from a prep perspective? It’s a horrible substitute.”
• Recommends alternatives like cipollini onions and torpedo-shaped tropia onions for a similar sweetness and texture.

Megan Scott’s Insight (41:37):

• Suggests using regular or red onions when shallots aren’t available, especially in recipes where subtle differences won’t overpower the dish: “I would just use a regular onion... if you're just going to chop it or slice it and saute it.”

Shannon Larson (43:17):

• Emphasizes the visual appeal of using red onions in mignonette for vinaigrettes, highlighting their aesthetic contribution: “That light pink color just makes you kind of happy.”

The hosts collectively offer practical substitutions, ensuring listeners can adapt recipes without compromising on flavor or presentation.

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Dirk Marshall’s Podcasting Ventures: Celebrating Culinary Cinema

Dirk shares insights into his own podcast, VHS, where he explores cult films with a culinary twist. He highlights episodes featuring chefs discussing movies that intertwine food and storytelling.

• Dirk Marshall (29:56): Describes VHS as a celebration of films, focusing on their culinary elements: “I wanted to make something that, like, if someone came across something they did 40 years ago in their life, they could feel proud to listen to it and hear it celebrated.”
• Highlights episodes like “Who's Killing the Great Chefs of Europe” and Little Forest, a South Korean film that beautifully integrates food into its narrative.

Dirk’s passion for both cooking and cinema fosters a unique blend of content that resonates with food enthusiasts and film buffs alike.

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Personal Cooking Stories and Future Plans

The episode concludes with the hosts sharing their current cooking projects and upcoming plans, fostering a sense of community and shared culinary adventures.

• Shannon Larson (47:26): Talks about planning a camping trip and experimenting with steak pairing: “...roasted potatoes and roasted fennel with, like, lemon and white wine and an herby chimichurri sauce.”
• Megan Scott (47:36): Discusses her gardening plans, focusing on planting okra in raised beds to adapt to Portland’s climate: “My big project this year is going to be trying to plant okra...”
• Dirk Marshall (49:19): Shares his excitement about recreating restaurant dishes at home, mentioning his hot sauce creations and innovative recipes: “It's a mushroom lasagna with Chinese five spice. Oh, that sounds delicious.”

These personal anecdotes not only highlight the hosts' diverse culinary interests but also encourage listeners to embark on their own cooking journeys.

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Conclusion

In this episode, The Joy of Cooking Podcast masterfully intertwines practical cooking advice with personal stories and expert guest insights. Dirk Marshall’s contributions enrich the conversation, offering listeners a deeper understanding of recipe intricacies and the joy of culinary experimentation. Whether you're navigating the challenges of substituting ingredients or seeking inspiration for your next meal, this episode provides a wealth of knowledge and relatable experiences to enhance your cooking endeavors.

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Notable Quotes

• John Becker (19:08): “It is like the most infamous illustration that we've had in the book, bar none.”
• Shannon Larson (26:17): “It felt like I was still getting my vegetables in.”
• Dirk Marshall (08:26): “Only when it loses the feather, it had the strength to fly it the whole time in its heart.”
• Megan Scott (42:36): “I disagree.”

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Recipe of the Week: Crispy Fried Shallots

As part of the episode’s theme on shallots, the featured recipe is Crispy Fried Shallots, detailed on page 256 of the 2019 edition. Listeners are encouraged to cook along and share their creations using the hashtag #joyscoutscookingclub or tagging @joyofcooking.

Call to Action: If you have questions, topics, or stories to share, call the hotline at 503-395-8858 or send a text. Join the conversation and be part of the Joy of Cooking community!

Stay Connected: Subscribe to the Joy of Cooking Podcast on Apple Podcasts and iTunes, follow on Instagram, and visit joyofcooking.substack.com for the weekly meal planning newsletter.

Transcript

[Dirk Marshall]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan and steamed vegetable enthusiastic.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. I'm our in house meal planner and I know exactly where everything in the fridge is. No shade to anyone else in our household.

[John Becker]

Yeah, right. I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. I try to avoid crying when I cut onions, but sometimes it doesn't work and I am secretly thankful.

[Megan Scott]

It is really cathartic sometimes when you're cutting an onion and you just have to cry like, you can't avoid it.

[John Becker]

Yeah, you can't avoid it and you might even need it.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Becker]

I'm of two minds about it.

[Megan Scott]

It knocks something loose.

[John Becker]

It's a little inconvenient.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's very inconvenient. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I mean, you do have a knife in your hand.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Are you an onion crier?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, yeah. I make my husband cut our onions and I leave the kitchen. I'm extremely, extremely sensitive to it, but I really like cooked onions, so. Tends to find its way into a lot of dishes we make. I'm fine with it though. It just gives me a chance to sit down while he does something else.

[John Becker]

I feel like some onions, they provoke crying just more. Yeah. But it's also definitely a canary in a coal mine situation with the sharpness of your knives. Like, if you're crying every single time, that probably means you need to just.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I've tried the freezing trick too. Like I've put it in the freezer before cutting and that helped a little bit, I think, but I don't know if I just wanted it. I don't know, maybe.

[Megan Scott]

Maybe it was a mild onion. Yeah, it's hard to know.

[Shannon Larson]

Maybe I should do that more often and see if it actually works.

[Megan Scott]

There's all kinds of fun tricks. There's like, you can even buy onion goggles too.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh my gosh.

[John Becker]

Here's. Here's one. One weird trick. Have bad vision and you need glasses. Yeah, not exactly. Problem solved, obviously, since I cry, but.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, but do you think it helps?

[John Becker]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Shannon Larson]

I can see that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

I can just see the onion juices on the surface of my.

[Megan Scott]

Whoa.

[Dirk Marshall]

Okay.

[John Becker]

Sometimes maybe I don't.

[Megan Scott]

I had no idea. The world through John's eyes.

[Shannon Larson]

That'd be interesting.

[John Becker]

No one knows.

[Megan Scott]

Shannon, what did you do this week? Well, you were traveling this week.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I was traveling for work and also watching my nephews while traveling for work. So I did not do much cooking, but. But that's okay. We were in Seattle and there's. There's so much good food up there. Yeah. So I wasn't in, like, I wasn't sad about it, but before we left, we did make minestrone soup. And it was because I. There's this pizza restaurant here in Portland called Vincenzo's, and they have a little Italian market to the side. And one time, I don't know why, but they had like, Barbie themed Alphabet pasta. And I grabbed a bag of it because I was like dried Alphabet pasta. Oh, my gosh. The possibilities are endless. So we made. Made minestrone soup, but added little cute Alphabet Barbie.

[Megan Scott]

Is it just the letter?

[Shannon Larson]

No, it was a Barbie. Packaging was Barbie themed. They had all the letters.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Shannon Larson]

But it made it really fun to eat the soup because you were, like, getting spoonfuls. And it reminded me of being a kid, I don't know. And eating that soup, it was so fun. So I think I'm gonna buy it more often. And then we had plenty for leftovers. We had it, like, multiple times before it left.

[John Becker]

Were you tempted to make words out of, like, a spoonful?

[Shannon Larson]

No, I was too hungry and impatient. What about you two? Any fun things you cooked?

[John Becker]

I mean, really, the big thing was our friend and former guest on the podcast, Anna Johns. We had her over for her birthday. I tried to recreate, well, I feel like the last episode we were talking about, like this.

[Megan Scott]

It was like a crispy potato taco, right?

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

So the potatoes are almost like crushed or roughly mashed, and then in a crispy taco with a carrot slaw.

[John Becker]

But wasn't it like a double layer? Like a flour. A flour tortilla and then a corn tortilla? Yeah. Anyways, I didn't try to do that, but there's this amazing place called Titos Taquitos. It's on Swan Island. And I think that they are opening another location to replace the one that they lost. Anyways, they serve these really nice crispy taquitos slash flautas. I mean, you know, some people call them that and they're filled with potato. And then they do like a nice guado, like on top, you know, a stew. What do they offer? I feel like it's. There's a, there's a shredded pork, like a cochinita type situation or you can.

[Megan Scott]

Get them vegetarian and just. I can't remember what I. Because I did order them that way, but now I don't remember what was on top. Which is fun story.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, cool story.

[John Becker]

Anyways, so yeah, made some potato taquitos for the first time. So that was a nice learning experience. And then we, yeah, topped it with a chicken chili verde because we have a bunch of frozen new Mex chilies from the good. The good folks at Peppered Earth at the Portland Farmers Market. That was, it was like kind of a production and it ended up turning.

[Megan Scott]

Out they were delicious.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds so good.

[Megan Scott]

And then the next night you turned them into an enchilada situation by topping them with that chicken chili verde and some cheese and then baking them to kind of re crisp the edges. That was also delicious.

[John Becker]

It was really good. And yeah, I mean it just proves yet another data point that if you crisp something up and then you sog it out for some reason, it just ends up better.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's twice as delicious. And this week I. Well, for a couple weeks now I've been trying very hard to be consistent about publishing a substack newsletter. It's a meal planning newsletter. I have kind of let it fall off my plate for a long time because I have a full time job and it's sometimes hard to have the creativity left to do that kind of writing. But I'm trying to be more consistent about it. And it's just kind of about the meals, how I meal plan and how basically philosophies of. Of cooking and of meal planning and how to make cooking like less basically how to like shop at the grocery store less, how to spend less money, how to make cooking less stressful for folks who find it stress. And each week kind of has a little different theme. But then I share my. My meal plan and you can find it at joyofcooking.substack.com but yeah, I'm gonna be publishing that hopefully weekly.

[Shannon Larson]

And I know I'm a little bit biased obviously, but I love it so much. I've shared it with so many of my co workers, for example. I just think it's really, really helpful and it's really well written and it's really nice to just read something helpful and it reads well. Thank you.

[Megan Scott]

I really appreciate that. So this week, it's a very special episode because we have as our guest today Dirk Marshall, who also happens to be married to our producer and who has his very own podcast, which we will talk about. But Dirk is half of the team behind the Portland, Oregon based hot sauce company, Marshall's Hot Sauce. He is also the host of vhs, a podcast where he discusses a different cult film every week with a guest whose profession is portrayed, sometimes very loosely, in the. Dirk, welcome to the podcast.

[Dirk Marshall]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here as you've had so many talented cookbook authors and recipe writers, but nobody from my side of the table. The people that need the recipes, that's what I'm here to bring.

[Megan Scott]

We all need recipes.

[Dirk Marshall]

I do. I'm like, there's, you know when Dumbo, the elephant. Dumbo has the feather, and that's what helps it fly. Only when it loses the feather, it had the strength to fly it the whole time in its heart. If I lose the recipe, I order pizza.

[Megan Scott]

It's in there, Dirk. It's in your heart.

[Dirk Marshall]

It is not. I make terrible choices if my wife and daughter aren't here. I put string cheese in a cold tortilla. It's bad.

[Shannon Larson]

Wait, string cheese in a cold tortilla? Do you put any hot sauce on there or anything?

[Dirk Marshall]

Sometimes French's mustard.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I am so confused by you right now.

[Dirk Marshall]

And I eat it cold and sad in the kitchen, and I just say, moving on, basically wishing my wife's nodding. It's bad. But I love recipes. I love cookbooks, and they help me out so much. So I love listening to this podcast and hearing what goes into writing it. Watching my wife write recipes boggles my mind because I just don't have that skill set. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

But you're very good at following recipes, I hear.

[Dirk Marshall]

Oh, I follow it to the T, which makes me perfect for testing recipes, because Sarah can give me a recipe and I will cook it. And then she looks at it and goes, that's what happens. And I said, that's what I did. And she's like, I need to change this recipe. I don't know what to tell you. I set timers. I follow things to the T. And it's like, so, like, when I'm at the farmer's market, I'll see like a child. I'm the child in this situation. And they'll come up and they don't know how to sample the hot sauce. And we have chips in a bowl, tongs for the chips. And then the sauce is in a bowl with a spoon, so there's some moving pieces. And I saw a kid once get the tongs. Because the parents said, get the tongs. And he's like, okay. And he gets the tongs. And they're like, get the chip. And he gets the chip and the tongs. And then the parents started talking to somebody else. And I saw the kid panic and then just slowly put the tongs with the chip into their mouth. And that's like, me. Like, I'm following the recipe, and then if it's. Then, like, then it's done. I'm like, I don't know. What. What did I miss? Did I. I don't. And I'll just look at the thing in the pan. And I'm like, they didn't say, take it out of the pan bad.

[John Becker]

That is kind of my worst nightmare is to write a recipe where it's like the equivalent of talking to somebody else, and the reader is left putting a chip into their mouth with a pair of tongs.

[Shannon Larson]

I just want to stand in the kitchen and watch you follow a recipe one day.

[Dirk Marshall]

It is. Everything has to happen once at a time. If a recipe says 20 minute prep, 40 minute cook time, I'm there four hours. Like, I do everything individually. Good thing is, I love the breaking down of vegetables and things. I love the use and plus of everything. Like, I geek out over it, and it's very therapeutic for me. So I don't mind the time, but I just know if something's like a simple soup with one pan, it's like two loads of the dishwasher. Like, everything is. It's gonna be a scene. Yeah.

[John Becker]

Vegetable prep really is me time. Or you time. You know, whoever's doing it time. Really enjoy it. Try. You know, it's. I always feel like I. I'm always trying to find ways to make. To just, like, vary it up a little. Like, maybe not necessarily make it more efficient, but I'll just try cutting things differently, like, every. Every other time or whatever. I mean, sometimes I'm, you know, more inspired than others, but I'm not talking like, oh, getting really creative with your.

[Megan Scott]

Chopped onion, but you're not sitting there and tourneying a little. A little potato into a perfect ball or something.

[John Becker]

Yeah. That is like, the undesirable endpoint of such inquiry.

[Shannon Larson]

I do that with onions specifically, though. I'm like, is there a better way to cut this onion? And then I just, like, switch it up all the time. I know that there's the right way, but sometimes it doesn't feel like the right way.

[Megan Scott]

And do you ever do this for an infomercial? There must be a better way. There must be. Do you ever do the thing where you cut it? I. I don't know how quite to describe it, but you have take cut the onion in half, and then you hold your knife at an angle and cut it almost like radiating from the center. Radiating from the center. But you cut it like this and then. No, kind of. So that all the pieces turn out to be basically the same size. But you don't have to do that thing where you cut it horizontally and then cut it vertically.

[John Becker]

That actually has a name. Leon Style. Oh, yeah. Like, I guess how it's taught to cooks in Lyon. Okay, I. Please, listeners, correct me gently.

[Megan Scott]

Don't say that nicely.

[Dirk Marshall]

I will say I do have onion goggles, and they work really well. Yeah, I have these nice tortoiseshell ones.

[Megan Scott]

That, of course, they're stylish.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, they're lovely. They work really well. And I don't let anyone else wear them.

[Shannon Larson]

But you wear glasses.

[Dirk Marshall]

I take them off for that. Oh, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

You're a brave man.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, Most people say that.

[Megan Scott]

Dirk, what are your favorite things to cook, like, types of dishes?

[Dirk Marshall]

So there's two things that sort of pull me into the kitchen. One of them is something that's very simple and easy to cook for my family. So like a chicken pot pie soup in a crock pot that I can then crisp up something to top it with when we're ready to have dinner. That's like a simple go to. But another thing that draws me is, like, individual ingredients in recipes that I'm not familiar with or like, maybe a technique. So something like there was a recipe where you. You grated fresh ginger into cream cheese and then use steamed cabbage leaves and then topped that with like a chili crisp. That was such a bizarre thing that I was like, I have to make that. And that's something that I don't think I've ever forgotten.

[Shannon Larson]

Was it good?

[Dirk Marshall]

It was super good. It was really good. And the key piece, you could serve it at room temperature, so I didn't have to stress out. I love that you could make everything individually. And then when it's time to eat, just, like throw it on a platter and it looks all pretty and you drizzle things. And who doesn't like to drizzle?

[John Becker]

I still remember, I think it was the first time that we were over here and had something that you. You Prepared. And it was like a. Like a roti style flatbread where you had coiled, you know, did the. The rolling up of the dough.

[Megan Scott]

I guess it's kind of coiling it and then rolling it out again.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, Yeah, I should do that again. That was a fun process. That had a great payoff.

[Megan Scott]

Agreed. How often do you cook dinner every week?

[Dirk Marshall]

You know, it depends. We try to balance it with, like, Sarah's the person who drives in our family. So if she's running the kiddo around, then I'll try to, like, figure out something to make so that we're not just ordering pizza cat all the time, which is not a bad thing. But so a couple times a week. And I'll try to find things that I'm like, inspired by. Or sometimes that's from a restaurant we went to. Sometimes it's because our kid will be like, I want onigiri. And I'm like, cool, I got that. And I have like the rice recipe where I soak the rice and then I rinse the rice and then I, you know, set the timer. We've already covered my timer issue. And so. And then again, you can have it at room temperature. So that's like a win win. Because I. I get stressed out too if there's like. If I got two things going and then they're like, oh, there's traffic. And I'm like, everything's gonna be cold. Like, it's just, you know, and nobody cares. It's just an implied pressure I put on myself. Everyone's just happy to eat food.

[Shannon Larson]

I just really appreciate how self aware you are.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Dirk Marshall]

You know, I think about it detrimentally a lot.

[Megan Scott]

All right, so let's try our little snack today. So today's episode's theme is shallots. So we are try. Actually, Dirk, could you talk a little bit about this?

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah. This is a recipe from Joy of Cooking. It's the roasted shallot recipe. And I did complete the entire recipe by doing the maple balsamic optional glaze on there. And just so you know, I do read the recipes in your voices. So thanks for being in the kitchen with me. And then Sarah had this idea because I had also made the minestrone soup from the book. I looked for the section that was older recipes that were included in this addition. And that's where I found that, which was delicious, by the way. But she said, put the shallots on bread baguette and then a little grated gruyere and parmesan on top and then pop that in the oven. So that's what we have here.

[Megan Scott]

They look beautiful. Yeah, it is very browned.

[Shannon Larson]

French onion soup appetizer.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, that's what she said. And I was like, we love French onion soup. And I will say this recipe was like, one of my favorite things because the vegetable itself is pretty gorgeous once you peel it and everything. So you got a good starting block. And then you put it in there with the olive oil, simple seasoning, and it just roasts perfectly. You don't have to flip anything or do anything. And then when you pull it out and then you glaze it, so satisfying. So satisfying to glaze it. And then it just comes out so beautifully. You don't get a lot of maple. I was like, I'm not a big maple guy, but that blended with the balsamic is really great.

[Shannon Larson]

How long did it take to make this, do you think?

[Dirk Marshall]

This didn't take me a long time.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like it'd be a really good option for just, like, appetizer if you have friends coming over or something.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Dirk Marshall]

And again, because, like, you can roast it ahead of time, and then when you're ready to do the whole cheese situation, it kind of warms it up. So no, no pressure there.

[John Becker]

And the only prep you're really doing is peeling some shallots, which, I mean, that can vary depending on how small the shallots are. But they're so sweet. Pretty low effort.

[Megan Scott]

They taste amazing.

[Shannon Larson]

Really good.

[Megan Scott]

They get very caramelized and golden, and they're just so sweet and with. But also with that, you know, like that onion sweet savoriness. You're laughing at my description.

[John Becker]

That's very apt.

[Megan Scott]

John, could you talk a little bit about what Dirk mentioned about the classic recipes?

[John Becker]

So, yeah, in the index for the. The latest edition, 2019 edition, we took some prior research. I mean, you know, when we were testing recipes, we would do these, you know what we call them, genealogies, where we would try to trace back the recipe to the edition where it was first added. There was a huge number of recipes that were added in 1936. And so we felt like it was a good idea to create a list of recipes that had been in the book since that second edition, the 31 edition. There are definitely, like, plenty of recipes. Like, I want to say it's like 150.

[Megan Scott]

That sounds right.

[John Becker]

Yeah, something like that. That have been in every edition since in one form or another. I mean, they obviously have changed a little bit, hopefully for the better. So if anyone's interested in seeing some of the ones that have been around since the 30s. Just look in your index. It's under classic recipes.

[Dirk Marshall]

I do have a question, and maybe this isn't a classic recipe recipe, but when did or how long have. Or are there issues that don't have the skinning of a squirrel?

[John Becker]

What was the question?

[Dirk Marshall]

I came across the skinning of a squirrel in the book.

[John Becker]

Sure.

[Dirk Marshall]

And I was just curious. This is a thing.

[John Becker]

It is like the most infamous illustration that we've had in the book, bar none. For sure. There. There is an illustration in the 63 edition and the 75 edition that really captured the imagination of a lot of people.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, no, it shows. The illustrations are cool illustration.

[John Becker]

It shows a bad technique.

[Megan Scott]

A technique we'd no longer recommend for skinning a squirrel, but where you put your boot, your very stylish hunting boot, presumably on the squirrel to help you pull the skin off. But we don't recommend that technique anymore. There's a better way of doing it, which we talk about in the 20 edition, but we do not have an illustration anymore for that.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

And we talk about it in the context of rabbits because, like, people actually do raise rabbits for food, not just pets. We definitely talk about it there. And, you know, the technique that we recommend now was taught to us. It was a very grotesque afternoon.

[Megan Scott]

But we don't have to go into great detail.

[John Becker]

We don't have to go into great detail.

[Megan Scott]

We learned a good technique, so we changed it in the book. However, ever since the illustration was taken out in the 90s, people have complained about it not being there. Really not because we think people are actually wanting to do that. We don't think most people are doing that.

[John Becker]

It's just like that typical, like, decline narrative. Like, you know, oh, it's no longer an authentic American classic because doesn't have the man stomping on the squirrel's tail or whatever.

[Megan Scott]

So my. Actually, this is a little bit of weird. I don't know what to call it. But when the 2019 edition was coming out, we were promoting it and we sent the book, or a publisher sent the book to all these different people, like, influencers and stuff, to, like, promote it on social media. And they sent one to Alton Brown, and all he said about it was, it doesn't have the squirrel illustration. Which made me kind of mad because I was like, you know, we took it out for a reason. Not, we don't want this book to be a museum piece. We want it to be a useful book that people can actually reference, not just a trove of, like, silly Antique things that nobody's ever going to use use. And so not taking it out wasn't like trying to be, I don't know, like, PC or something. It was really just like, this is not a good technique anymore. We added a better technique for the rabbit that also applies to squirrel. And there are reasons why we took it out. Not just because we were being curmudgeonly, but. Yeah, we really just want the book to be super useful and up to date with its information. But we do know of at least one person who has that illustration tattooed on their body.

[Dirk Marshall]

Oh, wow. Sure.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Dirk Marshall]

Is it Alton Brown?

[Megan Scott]

It is not.

[Dirk Marshall]

Oh, okay.

[John Becker]

Well, you know, we should have Alton on the show just to make sure.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we should talk about it.

[John Becker]

Ask if he has that tattoo.

[Dirk Marshall]

Makes sense. My mother always said there's more than one way to skit a squirrel. And to know, you'll have to turn to page 347. It's not the right page number.

[John Becker]

We only have one method because it is the best method. We don't want people to waste time with a substandard.

[Megan Scott]

Exactly.

[John Becker]

Skinny method.

[Megan Scott]

But before we move into the actual interview segment, I just wanted to talk about the recipe of the week that we made this past week, which was broccoli casserole. John, since you made the broccoli casserole, could you talk? Because I know you did some things a little differently than the recipe says.

[John Becker]

Yeah, of course. It's hard not to just mess with recipes. Dirk, you say that you follow recipes pretty, pretty closely, but do you ever, you know, have the inkling to just like, oh, no, I'm going to second guess, or I'm going to embellish this with something that I have on hand. Maybe not. Maybe you're not going out of your way, but you do a substitution that makes sense because you have it.

[Dirk Marshall]

No. That's a thoughtful question. No is the answer. I actually got sweaty when you said you love messing with recipes. I was like, I can't even deal with this. You got to follow the words and the numbers. That's how we get the tasty.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, the broccoli cheese casserole recipe is definitely one of those ones. It's a classic. It's. I think it was in the 1931 edition and has been in every edition since. Let's just say that times have changed. For instance, you know, Irma, back in the 30s, you know, she's like, cook your broccoli, par. Cook. Steam your broccoli. Actually, I think it was boiling, you know, chop it fine. Put it through a sieve if you want.

[Megan Scott]

So basically puree it.

[John Becker]

Basically a puree, which, you know, I mean, we obviously, we did not carry that through to the 2019 that we do say to chop it pretty finely. So I just decided, first of all, that I wanted a coarser chop, recognizable florets, not whole florets, just roughly chopped somewhere in between. And also, instead of steaming slash boiling, I wanted to roast broccoli because the oven's going to be on anyway. And it just so happens that the roasting temperature that we recommend for broccoli is the same baking temperature that we recommend for the casserole. So I made those changes, and then we have some fancy cheese around. So I ended up making the bechamel mornay sauce, you know, the flour thickened milk sauce with cheese in it, ended up making it with a little bit of raclette cheese. And then also, you know, just a tiny bit of a funky, bloomy cheese called brebby rousse. What was that again?

[Megan Scott]

It's a sheep's milk cheese called brebi rousse.

[Shannon Larson]

I love that word.

[Megan Scott]

It's really pretty. It has, like, an orange rind, like an edible rind, and it's a very soft, stinky, kind of stinky cheese. But it. It was really good in the cheese sauce. And. But that just kind of shows you, like, you can. You can tweak a recipe like that because it's so basic. You can add, like, you could use cheddar instead of whatever the recipe recommended. Cheddar and broccoli go super well together. You could use gruyere. You could use kind of whatever you have. Within reason.

[John Becker]

I did not mess with the crushed cornflake and romano cheese topping, though.

[Megan Scott]

That's solid. But I did think it needed more. I wanted more of the crunchy.

[John Becker]

Well, you kind of wanted more of everything. You wanted more sauce and you wanted more.

[Megan Scott]

More cowbell. You made it too, Shannon, right?

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. Well, my husband led the charge because he does follow recipes better than I do, and I recognize that, and I wanted him to. To follow it. I will say that we also roughly chopped the broccoli because I really love broccoli. I like the texture of it. But we steamed it. I like the flavor of vegetables, and steaming them, I feel like really brings out the flavor of vegetables. So we stuck with the recipe, except we roughly chopped the broccoli. I think other than that, we followed it exactly. My only note was, I think for us, we just needed some more, like, fun spices. I don't know, maybe some paprika or something just for our palate. But I think it's an excellent way to get a lot of vegetables in kids bellies because it was delicious, but it wasn't overly complicated. I thought it was great. I really enjoyed it. And then we paired it with crispy chicken thighs and a massage kale salad on the side. And it was just a really well rounded meal. And there wasn't so much cheese sauce that it felt like it was drowning in the cheese sauce, which I appreciated. It felt like I was still getting my, like, vegetables in.

[John Becker]

And double the brassicas, double the fun.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, that's our motto, our house.

[John Becker]

I forgot. I ended up adding some red pepper flakes to the top.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, like, something like that would be really good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's very typical.

[Shannon Larson]

The cornflake topping was so delicious, though.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. And now we have a big box of cornflakes.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, exactly. Cornflake recipes.

[John Becker]

More toppings coming down the pike. Maybe some breading situations.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we'll figure it out. So if you made the broccoli casserole, thanks for cooking along this week's recipe. Since our theme is shallots, this week's recipe is crispy fried shallots. You can find that Recipe on page 256 of the 2019 edition. As a reminder, each week will feature a recipe from the 2019 edition of Joy of Cooking that aligns with our weekly theme. You're invited to cook along. Feel free to tag us hejoyofcooking or use the hashtag joyscoutscookingclub. All right, Dirk, questions. What's your relationship to the Joy of Cooking cookbook? Is it a book you grew up with or did you come to it a little later?

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, so it's the one cookbook I remember my mother having. I think it's, you know, everyone says it's. It's iconic and. Yeah, that's. That's what I remember. I remember her having Joy of Cooking, using it in the kitchen. And other than that, just her own pages and pages of, like, handwritten and, like, recipe cards and, you know, stuff that, you know, every home cook making food for a family has their. Their annotated, you know, casseroles and things. Yeah, everyone loves the handwriting and, like. Yeah. And I, you know, the one she would get from, like, my grandma stuff where it's like a little picture of a loaf of bread that's like. And then. Yeah. So. But yeah, that's the one cookbook that.

[Megan Scott]

I remember do you remember any specific things she would make out of it?

[Dirk Marshall]

God, I don't. I'm sure she'd be like this, this, and this. But, like, as a kid, you don't really take note of that. You're just, like, stoked for spaghetti, right? Should be, like, on my tombstone.

[Megan Scott]

Stoked for sticking. Way to live. Speaking of, have you seen the tombstones that have recipes on them?

[Dirk Marshall]

No.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, there's a whole thing. I cannot remember the person's name now, but they have an Instagram where they go around to Graveyar, find people's tombstones with recipes on them, and then they make the recipe. And sometimes they even get in touch with, like, the family of the person and make the food and bring it and share it. It's really cool. Actually.

[Shannon Larson]

The most lovely thing I've heard in so long. I love that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. What recipe would you put on your tombstone?

[Dirk Marshall]

I'm very into chilled soba noodle salads.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[Dirk Marshall]

And lately I've been putting that 50 Hz screen Szechuan peppercorn oil on them, and I'm eating too much now. I can't keep the portions under control because I'm just like, no one's looking. And I just keep shoveling it in my face and I love it.

[Megan Scott]

And you've developed a tolerance for the. The oil now, so got to amp it up.

[Dirk Marshall]

It's so good. That's the one thing, John, that I've added to a recipe where it made things better. Oh, yeah. Everything else I'm like, measuring, like, just the right amount of oil to vinegar and, you know.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, it sounds like that kind of falls under the condiment tray, you know?

[Dirk Marshall]

Sure.

[John Becker]

So, yeah, sure.

[Dirk Marshall]

I was proud for us to follow. All right. I'm a sheep.

[John Becker]

Well, no, I feel like that's one of the benefits of having the condiment tray at hand is that you can rebel.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yes.

[John Becker]

You know, if things don't turn out the way you want, you can ameliorate your circumstances.

[Dirk Marshall]

Exactly.

[Megan Scott]

So, Dirk, you are a podcast host.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yes.

[Megan Scott]

Could you tell us a little bit about your show?

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah. So I grew up in a video store in the 80s. My dad had a mom and pop video store. And, you know, I had like a little travel TV and a VCR under a table by our popcorn machine, and I could just pull movies from the shelves and watch them. And that's, like, greatly impacted my life and how I communicate to people, how I relate day to day situations, for better or worse. So it's just something that I'm passionate about. And I wanted to start a podcast where it was just all about celebrating films. There's a lot of things, you know, podcasts and shows where they make fun of movies and that kind of stuff, which is whatever you want to do. But, like, a lot of times, that's the budgetary restrictions or, you know, the time that they had to make it. And I wanted to make something that, like, if someone came across something they did 40 years ago in their life, they could feel proud to listen to it and hear it celebrated, rather than, like, look how dumb you look, and clothes in the 70s or whatever it is, you know, that people poke fun at. And I just think everyone has an interesting life and profession. It's only boring because it's our own. And so, you know, by talking to a lot of our friends are chefs. And so I was like, hey, will you come on my podcast and we'll talk about a movie? And they, you know, agree. So I had Aaron Barnett from St. Jack, and he came on and we talked about who's Killing the Great Chefs of Europe, which is a film from 1978, directed by Ted Kotcheff, who also did First Blood and Weekend at Bernie's.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, wow.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, very. It's got George Seagal and Jacqueline Basset in it, and it's about a murderer who's going around killing chefs in the style of their signature dish. Oh, yeah. Like, $150,000 of the budget went just to the food, which was all made by Paul Bocus, most notably credited as the sort of godfather of nouvelle cuisine, like the lighter version of traditional French. He was also the inspiration for Auguste Gusteau in 2007's Ratatouille, if you've seen that amazing cartoon. So I reached out to his chef de cuisines, where he was a consultant at. At, like, Scotch Lodge. And so I asked them, how would he die? And so that was super fun. And because they loved to answer that for their boss. And so that's. That's a fun example. I also had him back for the menu to talk about the dishes in that film, just to be like, what do you think of. You know, just to pick your brain. We cover everything from an exterminator talking about what a bad day is like for them, which is really gross. If you didn't like the squirrel segment of this podcast, you're not going to like that episode. But, yeah, it's been really fun. I enjoy it.

[John Becker]

What movie was that for?

[Dirk Marshall]

That was for Of Unknown Origin, a film from. With Peter Weller, who everyone knows from Robocop, and he encounters a killer rat in his house and he needs some help. Boy, does he. And so, yeah, so we had an exterminator on and. Wow, disgusting. Not for a food podcast.

[Megan Scott]

Wait, I want to backtrack a little bit to the episode that you had. Aaron Barnett. Yeah, like what, what was his signature dish and what was. How would he be murdered?

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, well, you'll have to listen to it. But I will say he, he is so fascinating because he has Saint Jack, which is like a high end, such a good restaurant, French restaurant. And he. But he is a rebel in that he loves to be playful. The clientele kind of dictated. And he says it in the episode that, you know, he wanted to do these fun things, but people were like, we want the foie gras. We wanted this, we wanted that. And so it becomes sort of higher end. But he can't help himself. So he'll do things like a whole fish head fried with French fries shoved in the face of it with a rich French sauce. And like, like he'll do high lows with caviar served with Pringles. He's like, he's just such a fun, unpretentious person. Great to sit at the pass and watch the different stations work because the things that they come up with are unbelievable. So, yeah, it was, it was pretty gross the way that they thought he would die.

[Megan Scott]

But we don't have to get into it.

[Dirk Marshall]

I will listen to the podcast. It's very funny if people don't like, don't want gross. I did do an episode on Tampopo 2, actually one of them with Gabe Rosen that had Nora Neko at the time. So he was the broth episode. And then Lola that has Umi organic. And so she was the noodle component to that episode. So we did both those. And one I really have to highlight is, is Little Forest that I did recorded that episode with my wife. And that's a movie from South Korea that people can find. And it's. Have you any of you seen Little Forest? It's such a lovely, sweet movie. No high drama, no high stakes. It's about a woman who has gone to the city. She moves back to her small house that she grew up in in the, you know, rural area. And through the months, she reconnects to her family and food through gardening and cooking. And it's some of the most beautiful Korean food you'll ever see photographed. Anyone I've told to watch this movie is like, like this is what I needed. Oh. Like it's something that I think, you know, if you're stressed and you want something to watch where you're just like, I got all the feels.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Dirk Marshall]

Like Little Forest is.

[Shannon Larson]

I was gonna ask you what your favorite food themed movie is. Do you think that's it?

[Dirk Marshall]

That's probably it. Because Tampopo is really fun and everything, but it has a lot of adult subject matter that I forget about until I recommend it to someone and they're like, that egg scene was a lot. And I'm like, you're right. I forgot about that part.

[Megan Scott]

We, when my parents were visiting, we decided to watch it and I had forgotten about all of that stuff. And then I was like, oh, yeah, it all came flooding back. I was like, so sorry. It's so awkward to watch something like.

[Dirk Marshall]

That with your parents.

[John Becker]

Yeah, that was pretty awkward.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah. Little Forest doesn't have that. And unlike a lot of movies, usually if they deal with food, it's about really chefs and restaurants and it's less like, yeah, you'll see a picture of some food or, you know, some shots of food in there. But Little Forest is really like making your kimchi and, you know, making a salad with these edible flowers and. And you see the joy on the actress's face and it's just impossible to not like, love it.

[Megan Scott]

You know, adding that to my list.

[Shannon Larson]

I just wrote it down. I might be watching it tonight.

[Dirk Marshall]

I hope a lot of people do.

[Shannon Larson]

Like, yeah, that's what I need right now in my life.

[John Becker]

Yeah, I feel like a lot of us do.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, it sounds great.

[Megan Scott]

Do you like to eat snacks while you watch movies?

[Dirk Marshall]

I don't. I'm so weird. I. I don't like to do anything. I like to sit completely motionless and just give myself to the film that I'm watching. My wife is nodding. People love to eat and drink during movies and I find it all heavily distracting. And so I just. Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Do you drink water?

[Dirk Marshall]

Not really. I watch a lot of scary movies too, and I just want the full ride. Yeah, that's my whole thing. And so, yeah, anything that pulls me away from it is, is. Is. I'm like, get out of here.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh God, you are a rare breed.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah, I'm a mess, but. But consistent. That's good.

[Shannon Larson]

Self aware.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yes. I know what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But movie snacks, I would love it if I was into them. My favorite thing is when we watch television, things to turn our brain off at the end of the day. So not related to the podcast or anything. Also, I'm taking notes a lot of times with movies, and that's. I can be snacking at the same time because my favorite snack for that entertainment time is when we make popcorn together. And I love to make popcorn in the air popper, But I do something that I don't think a lot of people do, and that's season the bowl. So I take butter and I rub it around the outside of the bowl, and I season it with the salt and stuff, because both my wife and daughter love to get a kernel and drag it up the side of the bowl.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, I like that.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah. Yeah. And then we air pop it, and then we toss it with the nutritional yeast and the. Depending on what Sarah's into at the time. If there's no kiddo, we're putting our volcano sparkle from Marshall's hot sauce in there. Get nice and spicy.

[John Becker]

That is a fine, fine seasoning.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Talk a little more about that.

[Dirk Marshall]

It's all my wife's favorite hot chilies. She dehydrates them, grinds them into a powder with a little citric acid and sea salt. So it's like a dry hot sauce people could keep in their desk, essentially, and just add to whatever you want. And I'm telling you, I've made Mac and cheese with my daughter once a week since she could eat solid foods. If I'm being transparent, I read the box every time. But she knows that it's a little boring for me. So she'll get our bird's eye basil out of the fridge, and she'll get the volcano sparkle, and she'll church it up for me. Oh, it's really nice. Sometimes that spills out, and it's very spicy, but I enjoy the ride.

[John Becker]

You can really get in trouble with the volcano spot.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

It is no joke.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

The name of it is just my favorite, though.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. It's so good.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Makes you happy.

[Dirk Marshall]

It's fun because there's a demographic of people that come to a hot sauce counter, and they're. What do you got that's the hottest? And it's so fun to hear that voice say, I'll get a volcano sparkle. It's me every time.

[John Becker]

Yeah. I feel like that that is a product that you guys must have developed just to have an answer for those folks where they. There would be no, like, oh, that's nothing.

[Dirk Marshall]

Yeah. You know what's funny is. So the top floor of our home is where we live. The ground floor is where the commercial kitchen and podcast studio and stuff are so it was like midnight. I was watching something on probably a found footage horror movie or something, and my wife just pops up the spiral staircase in gloves and goggles and she's like, do you want to try what I just made? And I was like, oh, my God. Like I'm watching a terrifying film right now. Yes. What is it? And it was Volcano sparkle. And I was like, this is amazing. Where do you even think up this stuff? I don't know where she gets it, but.

[Shannon Larson]

What is your history with hot sauce? Have you always liked hot spicy?

[Dirk Marshall]

No. When we met, we basically knew, like, probably cholula or tapatio from burrito spots maybe. What's the one that starts with a V? I can't even think.

[Shannon Larson]

Valentino.

[Dirk Marshall]

Valentino. You know, I call them gateway sauces because they usually lead people into spicier territory. That really was it and it wasn't. I mean, you can listen to her episode to hear about habanero carrot curry, but that was like the thing that started it all. And just yesterday she made haluski and I doused it in habanero carrot curry, and it was amazing. Yeah.

[John Becker]

Might need to make that again and.

[Megan Scott]

Douse it in hot sauce.

[John Becker]

Sauce.

[Dirk Marshall]

It's really good in the butter.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Let's answer our question of the week. Sarah, can you read the question, please?

[E]

I was shopping recently for shallots and they were out. I bought pearl onions instead. Do you think this is a good replacement or do you have a better one? Do you have any recipes with pearl.

[John Becker]

Onions from a prep perspective? It's a horrible substitute.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Even more appealing.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Appealing. Pearl onions is really horrible, but yeah, it really is kind of an. It depends question. I feel like for a recipe like this, the one that we. We had a little taste of the roasted shallots, you could definitely roast pearl onions like that. You know, you'd have to adjust the cooking time a little bit, but yeah, it would be great. But yeah, the downside, peeling for roasting, if you. If you want to substitute something for shallots, the two options that come to mind are cipollini onions, which are kind of the donut shaped ones, kind of flattened looking. They're. They're delicious. They're a little sweeter than shallots. And then the other kind of roasted substitute that came to mind for me at least were the torpedo shaped tropia onions, which are redder. They usually have greens attached, and they're usually around farmers markets. So it's not. Not exactly the easiest one to find.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I feel like the downside is those are both harder to find than shallots or pearl onions.

[John Becker]

I mean, Cipollini store well, at least so there's a chance that, you know, one of a fancier market might have them. Those would definitely be the easier ones to find.

[Megan Scott]

But then I was thinking about it, and if a recipe calls for a shallot and I don't have one, I'll just use a regular onion or if I have a red onion. I feel like a red onion is a really good substitute, especially if it's just. If you're just going to chop it or slice it and saute it, or it's in a recipe where you're not going to super notice the difference. I'll just use an onion. I thought it was interesting. Julia Child actually recommended in. In Mastering the Art of French Cooking. She recommended using the white part of. Of scallions instead of shallots, which I think is kind of a weird substitute because they're totally different.

[John Becker]

Well, it goes back to. I feel like there's just. After perusing like, I don't know how many cookbooks and, you know, in the time that we've been working on the book, there seems to be this opinion that shallots are mild.

[Megan Scott]

I disagree.

[John Becker]

And. Or milder than just a storage onion.

[Shannon Larson]

And my eyes disagree.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, my eyes disagree.

[John Becker]

I was crying. I actually, in my intro, I said that I cry when I. Sometimes I cry. Well, it was a shallot. It was a damp.

[Megan Scott]

It's a damn shallot for me.

[John Becker]

And yeah, I actually substituted a shallot for the broccoli cheese casserole dish because it calls for a small onion minced. And, you know, we just, just happen to have like a fairly large shallot.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I would just substitute a regular onion. You had a good point, though, John, when we were talking about this earlier, is that if you're using the shallot in like a. A lot of times vinaigrettes will have like, minced shallot in them. Then I would probably use a red onion specifically, like, minced. Really Fine.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Especially for like, minionette and stuff because, like, I feel like minionette kind of needs that color for some reason. I don't. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

I agree.

[Shannon Larson]

It needs to be that light pink color. I wrote that in my notes, honestly, just because I feel like mignonette is the best. The best way to eat a shallot. I could drink mignonette. I really could top it on, like, just put it on everything and I'd be happy.

[John Becker]

A drinking vinegar. That's a thing.

[Shannon Larson]

But A lot of it. I mean. Yeah, that light, light, light pink color just makes you kind of happy.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah. Makes me want oysters right now. Yeah. But as for pearl onion recipes, since it sounds like you probably have some leftover. We do have in the book a creamed pearl onion recipe. That's really good. It's, again, it's pretty simple. It kind of reminds me of the broccoli casserole a little bit because you. You cook the onions and then you make a simple, like, white sauce and then bake it in a dish with cheese on top. It's a really good, like, Thanksgivingy kind of side dish.

[John Becker]

Yeah. What could go wrong? I mean, you serve that. It doesn't have to be like a side for a big meal. You could just. If you were, you know, trying to eat your feelings, some nice crusty bread and some cream. Pearl onions might do the trick. You never know. When I think of pearl onions and how I want to eat them, I think about coq A and I think about beef bourguignon, but those are super involved. You know, it's like the pearl onions are almost kind of beside the point, even though they end up being, like, a highlight for me.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, I love them. That's. Yeah, that's one of my favorite parts of, like, coq au vin is getting the little pearl onions.

[John Becker]

But, you know, it's like the last step of those recipes is, you know, you are sauteing in butter. You're sauteing peeled pearl onions and mushrooms to add to the stew at the last second or, you know, I mean, maybe I think we call for, like, a little bit of simmering time to marry the flavors. But I mean, why not just do, like, that mushroom, pearl onion, butter, saute by itself and then add it to something or just.

[Megan Scott]

That would be a good side.

[John Becker]

It would be a great side. It would be great for topping, like mashed potatoes or something, or even roasted potatoes, baked potatoes.

[Shannon Larson]

You can also pickle them. Yeah, pickling as you can pickle pretty much everything it feels like, but it's.

[Megan Scott]

Like a get out of jail free card. You can just pickle it.

[Shannon Larson]

You just pickle it also, you know, put it in a cocktail. Have a lovely evening. There you go.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I love. Yeah, I love a dirty martini. Or I guess it's. It's a Gibson, but you put a little bit of the brine into the martini and then you garnish it with the. The pickled onion.

[Shannon Larson]

I think pickled.

[John Becker]

You could split the difference and just do olive. A little olive Juice and a pickled onion. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

I just feel like pickled pearl onions would be a lovely gift to give somebody to just like, a little jar. Pretty low, like, work involved.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

High value.

[Megan Scott]

I will say that the pick. When you're pickling the pearl onions, I do recommend they. So they sell pearl onions already peeled in the freezer section, which are great if you're going to add it to a stew or something like that. But if you're going to pickle them, I don't recommend using them because they are, like, kind of cooked a little bit and they get mushy and you really want them to be, like, crunchy.

[John Becker]

Yeah, they're not cooked, but the freeze thaw definitely, like, softens them a little bit. And. Yeah. Frozen pearl onions, fantastic innovation. I hate peeling them.

[Shannon Larson]

We can kind of tell.

[John Becker]

Well, there's this trick that supposedly makes it easier where you blanch them and shock them and ice water and. Yeah, I mean, it makes it kind of easier, but it's also a pain. Just the whole thing.

[Megan Scott]

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[E]

I'm a farmer with a farmer's market stand selling my vegetables. People ask me how to cook my veggies. I know what I do, but I don't know how to write a recipe. Any good tips or format or can I make copies from Joy? Is that breaking the law? So many questions. Send help.

[Megan Scott]

We will answer that question next time. That's a really good question. All right, everybody, what are we looking forward to this coming week?

[Shannon Larson]

I saw somebody on Instagram, so I don't eat beef very often, but when I do, I like it to be really, really good. So tonight I'm gonna make a steak and pair it with some roasted potatoes and roasted fennel with, like, lemon and white wine and an herby chimichurri sauce to put on the steak and just sound. I just need. It just sounds nice. And then also planning a camping trip next weekend, so I'm gonna start thinking about things that I will be wanting to make maybe over the fire, because it's gonna be really, really cold. And to share with friends, you two included.

[Megan Scott]

I'm very excited. I couldn't think of a single thing to that. I'm. Well, because I do my meal planning normally on Sunday afternoon, so I haven't quite. I just haven't gotten there yet, but I am starting to plan my garden for this year. And so that's occupying a lot of my brain is just like, what am I going to plant? Where am I going to put it? My big project this year is going to be trying to plant okra here. This is not a great climate for okra. It really likes heat and humidity, so we have a pretty short season and our nights are colder than they are in, like, the South. So my solution for that, hopefully is going to be putting some raised beds along the side of our driveway so that the heat from the concrete can hopefully help them along. Yeah, but I love okra so much and you just don't see it as much here. A few farmers grow it.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

A lot of people don't know what to do with it, but I really miss it, so I'm looking forward to that. And I also found a variety of okra that supposedly fruits in a shorter amount of time, so it doesn't need quite as long of a season. So all of those things hopefully will help me.

[Shannon Larson]

I may be following up with questions about that.

[Megan Scott]

Well, if I have success, there should be plenty of okra. So.

[John Becker]

Yeah, I can't wait for some prolific okra plants. I feel like we've been missing out on that for a decade now.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. What about you, Dirk?

[Dirk Marshall]

Oh, we recently went to one of our favorite restaurants, Jeju, and anytime we go, I get so excited one to come back because this was a special event for Lunar New Year, and so I couldn't get some of my favorite things like the fermented spicy bean paste. There's a sausage situation I dream about. They do this burger in a bun situation, like a steam bun thing. Have you had this?

[Megan Scott]

No.

[Dirk Marshall]

We should go.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Dirk Marshall]

It's so good. So I get excited about doing some sort of like, tteokbokki or something at home. And then I had this recipe I showed my wife because I was like, I can't get this out of my brain. I think we have to make this. But I know you'll make some changes to make it even better. And it's a mushroom lasagna with Chinese five spice. Oh, that sounds delicious. Yeah, I'm like, all about it. So really good. That's what I'm hoping for this week. Stay tuned for. Yeah, how that went. And I'm crossing all my fingers and toes.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and itunes. Follow [e-mail] and on Instagram. He Joy of cooking Stay tuned for next week, where we'll tackle recipe writing. And don't forget to make this week's recipe crispy fried shallots. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dresky, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer and Sarah Marshall, our.