The Joy of Cooking Podcast – Episode Summary
Episode Title: Erin Jeanne McDowell: A Casual Culinary Chat About Pie
Release Date: December 3, 2025
Host: The Joy of Creation Production House
Guests: Erin Jeanne McDowell (bestselling author and baking expert)
Co-hosts: Megan Scott, John Becker, Sarah Marshall, Dirk

Overview

This deliciously in-depth episode centers on the world of pie with special guest Erin Jeanne McDowell, author of "The Book on Pie," "The Fearless Baker," and more. The Joy of Cooking team (Megan, John, Sarah, and Dirk) shares recent kitchen victories and defeats, then welcomes Erin for a lively, practical, and sometimes nerdy conversation about pies—how to modernize classic recipes, solve pie dough struggles, select the best pie pans, and bring fearlessness and fun back to baking.

Episode Outline & Key Insights

1. Warm-Up: Favorite Recent Eats and Kitchen Adventures

(00:00–08:54)

• The hosts introduce themselves with culinary confessions:
  • Sarah’s week of New York pizza, including morning “breakfast pizza.”
    • "Slices of pizza for me in New York are kind of like a snack.” (A, 03:09)
  • Megan attempted an escarole pie from Claudia Fleming’s "Delectable," remarking on the pie’s sturdy, crumbly shortcrust and escarole/anchovy/olive/pecorino filling (05:11–06:09).
  • John’s “Sunday sauce” (meat-rich pasta sauce using freezer finds) and the team’s rediscovery of their Joy Scouts “grapes & sausages” recipe (07:08–08:52).
  • Discussion on the creative joys and perpetual editing when cooking from their own (or others’) recipes.

2. Guest Introduction: Erin Jeanne McDowell

(08:52–10:17)

• Background: Erin’s credentials as a bestselling author and baking authority with NYT, Food52, and a hit YouTube channel.
• Megan comments about knowing Erin “via Instagram” and discusses the small, interconnected food media world.

3. Pie Talk: Innovations, Favorites, & Baking Wisdom

(10:17–25:04)

Pies of the Week

• Erin is working on holiday pies for virtual classes: pumpkin sugar pie (“Hoosier Pie”), which uses flour instead of eggs as a thickener for a silkier texture, and Honey Nut squash for color and flavor (11:24–12:36).
  • "I’m kind of a certified pumpkin pie hater... And the key to me liking it is that there’s less pumpkin in it than most pumpkin pies.” (D, 11:00)

On Modernizing Classics

• Erin and Megan discuss updating old recipes by adjusting flavors, adding new ingredients (honey nut squash), and responding to shifts in home cook knowledge.
  • “I think there’s a lot of ways to make something new, and with the internet—there’s so many versions of the classics, no one should be afraid to riff on it.” (D, 18:42)
• Example: Increase garlic (no more rubbing the pan and discarding!), adjust cake methods (drop the fussy egg white separation for better, more manageable results) (19:02–20:36).

Baking Philosophy

• Erin’s next book focuses on “building blocks” and mix-and-match creativity in baking, breaking out of the “baking is rigid science” mindset.
  • “Once you master that, look at all the other things you can make... I want to give people the flexibility and freedom to customize their bakes.” (D, 22:11)
  • Both Erin and Megan stress the value of visual cues and sensory markers in recipes.
  • "You don’t need a huge crazy food science explanation... Just, instead of saying ‘be careful not to overmix’, let’s say what overmixing is, what it might look like.” (D, 23:41)

Memorable Sidebars

• Brainstorming about “golden brown” color swatches in a future edition of "Joy of Cooking" (24:41–25:04).

4. Pie Troubleshooting with Erin

(25:04–31:29)

• Megan confesses she’s lost her “pie dough mojo”—crusts shrinking, butter leaking, tough texture (25:49–26:18).
• Erin unpacks common pie myths and scientifically grounded fixes:
  • You can work pie dough more than you think; rest is crucial to prevent shrinkage.
  • Over-hydrated (too-wet) dough leads to toughness.
  • Butter size and shape matter: aim for flat shards (“no thicker than walnut halves, but two-dimensional, not three-dimensional”).
  • The “clean hand test” for proper hydration: dough should not stick or leave flour residue.
    • “The key is it just needs significant enough rest before you continue.” (D, 26:49)
• Megan’s issues may be tied to pan material (metal or glossy ceramic > glass) and butter technique.

5. Therapeutic Bakes & Bread Love

(31:29–33:48)

• Erin: Pie is most therapeutic—especially Thanksgiving pies made for family, not camera; bread baking is a close contender.
• Erin’s favorite breads for home: pita, naan, focaccia—preferably slow-rise (33:00–33:48).

6. Deep Pie Nerd Out: Pumpkin Tips, Apple Picks, Sturdy Pie Challenge

(34:33–42:44)

• Custard Pie Tips:

  • “Jello jiggle” test—stop baking when the edges are set and the middle wobbles; cool slowly for best texture (cracks/weeping are from over-baking or rapid cooling). (D, 34:53)

• Favorite Apples:

  • Cosmic Crisp is Erin’s new go-to for baking: juicy, sweet, vibrant, and holds shape without browning (36:56–38:11).

• Sturdy Pie Challenge:

  • Erin’s viral challenge: properly baked pies you can confidently hold (and post!). Sparked by her party trick of serving pie by lifting out whole slices.
    • “There’s nothing more satisfying than eating a mile-high coconut cream pie—like a slice of pizza and no fork, just reckless abandon.” (D, 41:40)

• Pie Pans:

  • Metal pans, especially USA Pan (nonstick, lightweight, optimal browning), are tops; glossy ceramic second, glass last. For adventurous bakers, try cast iron or disposable aluminum for bonus ease and browning (42:59–44:27).
  • “Glass, I’m sorry. You are my least favorite... You can see yourself out.” (D, 43:17)

7. Budget & Streamlined Cooking: Listener Q&A

(46:04–56:54)

• “Streamlined Cooking” Chapter: cooking shouldn’t be recipe-dependent; start with what's on sale, batch-cook and repurpose, buy versatile ingredients (large tubs of plain yogurt, bulk spices).
• Cost-Cutting Strategies:
  • Shop deals, use butcher cuts over prepackaged meat, learn to bake bread.
  • Cook beans in batches—leads to tacos, burgers, soups—"Rice & Beans With a Thousand Faces."
  • Tofu: Erin’s favorite shelf-stable protein, also mixes with meat to stretch budget.
  • Joy recipes: chana masala (p. 217), dal (p. 218), minestrone (p. 85), garlic soup (p. 91), haloski (p. 300).

Notable quote:

• “I feel like we’ve joked about writing a cookbook called ‘Rice and Beans With a Thousand Faces’ because every culture has their rice and bean dish.” (B, 53:32)

8. Closing: Culinary Plans & Final Wisdom

(61:00–end)

• The hosts share what’s up next: Sarah’s planning Thai food from a new cookbook, John prepping gumbo (with lots of Cajun sausage), and Megan excited to bake holiday fruitcakes (with only the best dried fruits and nuts).
  • “Before you turn up your nose, my fruitcakes are really awesome—I'm here to rehabilitate fruitcake’s reputation.” (B, 62:17)
• Erin’s family bake night involves kid-friendly puff pastry “bows” with cinnamon sugar.

Where to find Erin Jeanne McDowell:

• “You can find out so much more about me on my website, erinjeanmcdowell.com, on my YouTube channel... and on social—Instagram @emcdowell.” (D, 64:05)

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “Pumpkin sugar pie...is a custard pie thickened with flour instead of eggs. It is so smooth and creamy and delicious—and easy to make.” (D, 10:54)
• “No one should be afraid to put a spin or a riff on [classics] to bring them into the modern era.” (D, 18:58)
• “It’s not actually that possible to totally overwork pie dough... The key is it just needs significant enough rest before you continue.” (D, 26:49)
• “There’s nothing more satisfying than eating a mile high coconut cream pie—like a slice of pizza and no fork, just reckless abandon.” (D, 41:40)
• “Metal [pie pans] are my absolute favorite... Glass, I’m sorry. You are my least favorite material. You can see yourself out.” (D, 43:17)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 08:54: Host kitchen stories & recent food discussion
• 09:38 – 10:17: Erin Jeanne McDowell introduction
• 10:21 – 13:00: Guest’s holiday pies, honey nut squash, and pumpkin pie opinions
• 17:21 – 20:01: Modernizing classics, changing tastes, ingredient swaps/baking science
• 25:04 – 31:29: Pie dough troubleshooting (hydration, butter, mixing, pan material)
• 34:53 – 36:25: Custard pies and the “jello jiggle” doneness test
• 36:56 – 38:11: Favorite baking apples & Cosmic Crisp defense
• 41:49 – 44:27: Sturdy Pie Challenge & pie pan materials
• 46:12 – 56:54: Budget cooking, “streamlined cooking” philosophy, favorite affordable recipes
• 61:00 – 64:05: What’s cooking next week & where to find the guest online

Conclusion

This episode is packed with practical pie wisdom, kitchen creativity, and an infectious sense of kitchen joy—reminding bakers and cooks alike to experiment, troubleshoot, and not fear throwing tradition (and extra garlic) into their recipes. Erin Jeanne McDowell’s approach is empowering: pie can be fearless, fun, and a deeply personal expression of love—served by the sturdy slice, no fork required.

Next Week:

• All about canning safety resources with a special guest.
• This week’s challenge: Make “Black Eyed Peas and Greens,” p. 216, and share it with the team!

For full recipes, discussions, and more, visit joyofcooking.substack.com or follow @thejoyofcooking on Instagram.