The Joy of Cooking Podcast – Episode Summary
Podcast: The Joy of Cooking Podcast
Episode: Gillian Beck: A Casual Culinary Chat About The Recipe Index
Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: John Becker, Megan Scott, Shannon Larson
Guest: Jillian Beck Vanhemstra
Episode Overview
This episode explores the evolving nature of classic recipes, meal planning strategies for busy families, the value and nuance of a well-crafted recipe index, and the traditions of communal cooking and sharing. Featuring guest and friend Jillian Beck Vanhemstra, the team discusses not just recipes from “Joy of Cooking” but also the deeper stories behind them: from canning club memories and kitchen hacks to the thoughtful process of indexing a cookbook for generations of cooks to use.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Great Dry Brining Debate (00:55–04:30)
- What Is Dry Brining?
- Hosts debate the culinary payoff and practicality of dry brining, especially around Thanksgiving.
- John Becker reflects:
“In the olden times, [dry brining was] known as salting with no hyphen involved... It’s great for turkeys, good for roasts, but... I’m just really starting to question how often I need to do that.” (01:22)
- Real-Life Applications:
- Sometimes, salting just before cooking produces delicious results; complicated prep isn’t always necessary.
2. What We’ve Been Cooking (04:30–09:03)
- Shannon’s Cottage Pie & Mashed Potatoes:
- Comfort food, with secret ingredient: “A lot of salted Kerrygold butter... and usually if I have horseradish, I add a little horseradish to the mashed potatoes too.” (05:10)
- Cozy Weather Memories:
- One rare Portland storm causes neighborhood excitement (05:34).
- John & Megan’s Week:
- Pan-seared salmon (sometimes sockeye, sometimes farmed), simple baked potatoes (often with creative toppings like spicy horseradish sour cream).
3. Joy Scouts Recipe of the Week: Lemon Meringue Pie (07:34–08:54)
- Expert Tips:
- Kate’s advice: “Make sure that when you cook the filling... bring it to a full boil because of the enzyme in egg yolks that will cause it to get runny if you don’t cook it enough.” (07:42)
- Italian meringue preferred for stability.
- Pie-Only Lives Once:
- Must be eaten within 1–2 days for peak enjoyment.
4. Welcome Jillian Beck Vanhemstra (09:03–09:56)
- The Canning Club Connection:
“That’s kind of how we’ve met most of our Portland friends... through canning club, which has been really fun.” (09:37)
5. Kitchen Inspiration & Remedies (09:56–12:04)
- Presents from the Garden & Japanese Remedies:
- Jillian gifts quince and introduces Karin Hachimitsu, a Japanese home remedy: “Chop up your quince... pour in honey to cover it and let it ferment on the counter for a week.” (11:03)
- Used as a soothing tea for cold season.
6. Traditional & New Thanksgiving Sides (12:04–20:14)
- Espaghetti Verde:
- New recipe tried, featuring poblanos and Mexican crema: “You just make a pureed super green sauce for spaghetti.” (12:35)
- Escabeche Tradition:
- Bright pickled vegetables now a Thanksgiving staple:
“That meal needs more acid, more spice, more color... so escabeche complements the meal perfectly.” (18:10)
- Bright pickled vegetables now a Thanksgiving staple:
- Jam Session:
- Santa Rosa Plum Jam as a family treasure—“You bite into one and you’re like, it’s a Santa Rosa. You can smell them from down the block because they’re so fragrant.” (21:10)
7. Food Memories & Dorm Room Cooking (14:31–16:13)
- Handwritten Chocolate Chip Cookie Recipe:
- Jillian: “My friend’s mom hand-copied out the Joy of Cooking chocolate chip cookies recipe for me when I was in high school. I memorized it and took it to college.” (14:44)
- Dorm Room Cooks United:
- Stories of toaster ovens, communal kitchens, and macaroni nostalgia.
8. Meal Planning Wisdom (24:28–34:31)
- Jillian’s System:
- “I have a paper meal planner and I meal plan for the week on Fridays... before you make your meal plan, you have to clean out the fridge and check what you have.” (25:22)
- Magnetic notepad on the fridge keeps everyone in the loop.
- Family Involvement, Foraging Days, and Pizza Night:
- Family can request favorites. Everyone gets “foraging days” for leftovers.
- “If I'm on top of it and planning ahead... then I make the King Arthur Flour crispy cheesy pan pizza recipe.” (31:24)
- For emergencies: “Tortilla pizza... It’s better than frozen pizza!” (32:21)
9. Cookbook Exploration & Creative Inspiration (36:14–38:29)
- Cookbook Club:
- Trading ideas from new cookbooks is key to avoiding rut meals.
- Julia Turshen’s “What Goes With What” praised as a guide for assembling flavorful meals from what's on hand.
10. Signature Dishes & Salad Strategies (39:51–43:11)
- Signature: The Salad
- Jillian: “I make [salad] lots of different ways... I usually make salad dressing of the week because my wife won’t eat store bought.” (40:05)
- Creative annual ritual—Dayenu Salad—using spring garden finds for Passover: “It seems like there’s nothing out there, but it ends up being a bowl of salad... it could have been enough.” (41:22)
- Radicchio Revelation:
- Soak in cold water for 1+ hour to mellow bitterness: “It will be deliciously bitter instead of painfully bitter.” (42:04)
11. The Recipe Index: A Crucial Cookbook Tool (45:26–54:54)
- Listener Question:
- “I have a problem finding recipes when I search a specific recipe. Do you have any guidance on how to use the index?” (45:35)
- Tips for Navigating the Index:
- For distinctive dishes (e.g., cassoulet, brownies), search by name.
- For basic dishes, search by main ingredient, then recipe type (e.g., soup, stew, salad).
- Use “about” sections for grouped recipes (e.g., About Artichokes lists all artichoke recipes).
- For baking: search by dish type first (e.g., cake, pie).
- Cross-references for classic recipes, cuisines, and dietary needs.
- Behind the Scenes:
- Indexing is intense and time-limited; professional indexers are often essential.
- “It can make or break somebody's experience with a book. And it's... not acknowledged enough, like what indexers do and how important it is.” (47:21)
- Meta-Index Tools:
- Shannon: Uses indexes across various cookbooks to compare approaches to seasonal ingredients.
- John: Recommends "Eat Your Books" for digital cross-cookbook searching.
12. Recipe Assignment: Cabbage Gratin (56:47–58:12)
- Thanksgiving Side Recommendation:
- Cabbage Gratin from page 225: “You sauté a leek... then add cabbage, sauté, mix into a custard base with eggs, cream, cheese... bake until brown and melty. It’s a really great Thanksgiving side.” (57:08)
- Shannon: “I’ve made that recipe like three times. It’s so good. It’s mouthwateringly good.” (57:16)
13. Food Traditions, Travel, and What’s Next (59:27–61:52)
- Looking Forward:
- Jillian plans to make pierogies with the cabbage gratin for dinner.
- Megan and John traveling for a family wedding—excited for North Carolina BBQ and local hot dog traditions.
- Shannon: looking forward to sushi in a Seattle hotel room—“That is a very special delicacy.” (61:46)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Homemade Comfort:
“I just salt those puppies and throw them in the cast iron. Like, I don’t have the wherewithal to think ahead. I’m barely keeping up as it is.” —Shannon (04:17) -
On Salad Inspiration:
“My signature dish is salad... throughout the year I’m just like, what’s in the fridge? How can I make it a salad?” —Jillian (40:05) -
On Cookbook Indexing:
“Indexing is... not acknowledged enough, like what indexers do and how important it is.” —John (47:21) -
On Creative Cooking:
“What do we have? And how can I throw it together in a formula that’s going to end up with something people want to eat?” —Jillian on Julia Turshen’s approach (37:06) -
On Radicchio’s Secret:
“The bitter ingredient in radicchio is water soluble. If you soak your radicchio for at least an hour in cold water, then it will be deliciously bitter instead of painfully bitter.” —Jillian (42:04) -
On Family Food Rituals:
“That meal needs more acid, needs more spice, needs more color, and it was so good. So escabeche complemented the meal so perfectly that we always had to have it at Thanksgiving.” —Jillian (18:10)
Notable Timestamps
- 00:55 – Thanksgiving dry brining debate
- 04:30 – Favorite home-cooked meals of the week
- 07:34 – Joy Scouts Recipe: Lemon Meringue Pie tips
- 09:03 – Jillian joins: canning club and communal cooking
- 11:03 – Karin Hachimitsu: Japanese quince and honey remedy
- 18:10 – Escabeche at Thanksgiving history
- 24:28 – Jillian’s structured meal-planning system
- 31:24 – Friday night pizza rituals (King Arthur, tortilla pizzas)
- 36:14 – Using cookbooks and gathering inspiration
- 40:05 – Salad as signature dish and homemade dressings
- 42:04 – Radicchio soaking tip
- 45:35 – Recipe index: how to navigate and use it well
- 56:47 – Cabbage gratin recommended recipe assignment
Additional Resources & Food for Thought
- Cookbook References: Snowy Cabin Cookbook; Julia Turshen’s What Goes With What
- Meal-Planning Tools: Magnetic fridge notepad, whiteboards, cookbook clubs
- Food Community: Canning club, informal cookbook “potlucks,” recipe-sharing traditions
For Next Week:
The team will tackle creative uses for black currant vinegar. Listeners are encouraged to try out the cabbage gratin (p. 225) and share their results on Instagram @thejoyofcooking.
This episode champions the joy of food as community, curiosity, and practical problem-solving—whether it’s updating icons, planning for picky eaters, or letting the index be your map through generations of kitchen tradition.