Marisa McClellan of Food In Jars: A Casual Culinary Chat About Canning Safety.

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast

Episode: Marisa McClellan of Food In Jars: A Casual Culinary Chat About Canning Safety
Air Date: December 10, 2025
Host: The Joy of Creation Production House
Co-hosts: John Becker, Megan Scott, Shannon Larson, Dirk Marshall
Main Guest: Marisa McClellan (Food In Jars)

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Overview

This episode is a heartwarming and highly practical conversation about food preservation, canning safety, family culinary traditions, and breaking down what can feel intimidating about starting to can at home. The hosts—descendants and current authors of The Joy of Cooking—welcome renowned food blogger, cookbook author, and canning teacher Marisa McClellan (Food In Jars) to share her journey, canning wisdom, and to answer listener questions about trusted resources and first-time projects.

The tone is friendly, encouraging, funny, and honest about both triumphs and mishaps in the kitchen, with a particular emphasis on overcoming canning anxiety and building community around food.

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Episode Highlights

Kitchen Catch-Ups and Seasonal Cooking

[00:38 – 06:53]

• Hosts recount their recent kitchen exploits: homemade ramen (with chashu from Joy), fruitcakes soaked in rum, and a batch of black eyed peas and greens overshadowed by an especially cheesy cornbread.
• Discussion of cooking “economical” dishes and the sticker shock of vegetables these days—a recurring, humorous “old man yells at cloud” moment.
• Tips shared: soaking dried fruit for cake in strong black tea for plumper texture (and delicious leftover tea).

Notable Quotes

• Megan Scott on fruitcake:

  “They just need time for all the spices to kind of dissipate and not be as strong. And then I also soak mine in booze, so that usually helps over time.” [04:24]

• John Becker on cornbread:

  “It was totally overshadowed by the cornbread you made.” [07:47]

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Meet Marisa McClellan – Food In Jars

[10:03 – 17:16]

• Marisa is reintroduced as a longtime food blogger, canning authority, author of four books, and Portland native cooking for six while living behind her parents’ house.
• Shares recent kitchen projects focused on casseroles, pasta bakes, and Italian foods ahead of Thanksgiving.
• Offers chicken parm hacks: slice chicken across the grain for tenderness, combine breading steps for fewer dishes, and “oven-fry” with cooking spray to appease her “recovering almond mom.”

Notable Quotes

• Marisa on family traditions:

  “I come from a Joy of Cooking family... That was the foundational cooking volume in my house growing up.” [14:28]

• Marisa’s chicken parm tip:

  “Slice chicken across the grain... it makes a smaller piece of chicken, but it’s so much more tender... and you don’t have to like pound anything.” [12:14]

• “Teaching people to can is a big part of what I do, but the biggest part is just helping them release a fear.” [30:08]

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The Food In Jars Origin Story & Blogging Revolution

[17:16 – 26:22]

• Marisa discusses her hands-on, self-taught canning education, sparked by childhood memories and an urge to not waste a surplus of blueberries.
• Details the blog’s early days, from posting about sauerkraut to giving away jars to readers and growing a vibrant canning community just as the 2008 recession sparked a wave of DIY enthusiasm.
• Recounts the time a reader tracked down her phone number demanding a faster reply:

  “They called me and... ‘Hi, is this Marisa? I left a comment on your site.’... I think that’s the most extreme.” [24:53]

Memorable Moment

• Marisa’s family color-matched a dining room to a vintage Joy of Cooking edition, and everyone got their own copy to “avoid fighting”—a snapshot of cookbook devotion. [15:10]

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Why Canning Feels Scary—and How to Make It Less So

[27:36 – 34:41]

• Hosts and guest express empathy for canning anxiety—the fear of killing someone, the overwhelming advice online, and conflicting information.
• Marisa’s approach: boil a pot of water? You can can! Start with jam—it’s high acid and very safe.
• Discussion of “lab-tested” recipes, the science behind safety, and balancing vigilance and practicality.

Notable Quotes

• “If you can boil a pot of water to make pasta, you can really can.” – Marisa [28:20]
• “Jam is really going to be very safe... what makes a preserve safe or not safe is acid content.” – Marisa [28:45]

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Can I Trust Online Recipes? (And What About AI?)

[31:17 – 34:48]

• Discussion about misinformation: the glut of recipes online makes it tough to find authoritative advice.
• Rise of “canning fundamentalists” wanting only lab-tested or university extension recipes, versus the practical approach of adapting trusted science-based resources.
• No publisher has a lab-testing budget; most writers and teachers build from science and tested fruit acid values.

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Best Canning Starters, Family Canning Sagas, and Storage Confessions

[39:00 – 45:21]

• Marisa describes how kids have changed her canning: more practical, less ambitious, less storage space—but still hundreds (thousands!) of jars under beds and couches.
• Joy in the “jar craze” era: weddings with mason jars and jam favors.
• For new canners: blueberry jam is the perfect first project—high pectin, easy to prep. For pickles, try dilly beans (not cucumbers, which often lose crunch).

Notable Quotes

• “If you like blueberries, blueberries are a great project... If you’re not a jam person and want to start with a pickle—dilly beans! Not cucumbers.” – Marisa [45:23]

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Listener Q&A: Trustworthy Canning Resources

[45:31 – 53:40]

[Caller Question at 45:31]:

What are your most trusted online or app-based canning safety resources? I want to make sure a friend new to canning does it safely.

Top Recommendations:

• foodinjars.com – Marisa’s approachable site, with smaller batch recipes and accessible tips.
• National Center for Home Food Preservation (NCHFP) – The gold standard for safety guidelines, free “online class,” and reliable, no-frills recipes. https://nchfp.uga.edu/
• Ball (less content since ownership change, still useful).
• Local Extension Services – Many universities and states have online resources.

DON’T Use:

• Unverified Facebook groups (“fun to share, not to learn”), AI-generated recipes, or random sites of unclear origin.

Red flag in videos/websites:
“If they talk about canning butter—that is a website or YouTube channel you want to stay far away from.” [50:50]
“There is no way to safely can dairy products.” – Marisa

Notable Quote

• “If you stick to the Center for Home Food Preservation, Extension Services, Ball, Food In Jars—those are really good resources and they kind of have everything you need.” – Megan [50:37]

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Spotting Unsafe Canned Goods (For Coworkers or Recipients)

[55:06 – 58:47]

• Watch for:

  • Excessively large or small headspace (air at the top)
  • No date on the lid/label—how old is it?
  • Leaky, rusty, or sticky jars (especially if gifted)
  • Discoloration or crusty, dried-out product on top
  • No satisfying “hiss” (vacuum pop) when opened

• Never trust recipes based solely on “my grandma did it and she survived”; this is survivor bias.

Memorable Quotes

• “If a supposedly sealed jar opens too easily, that’s a real warning sign…and if there’s no hiss—yeah, you don’t want to eat that.” – Marisa [58:12]

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Joy Scouts Recipe Challenge and Listener Hotline

[58:52 – 61:44]

• This week’s Joy Scouts Recipe: Rombauer Sour Jam Cake (p. 732 Joy of Cooking)—incorporates jam into the batter, brown butter or butterscotch icing recommended.
• Hosts read a caller question about Portland/Eugene restaurant recommendations—details to be covered next week.

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Thanksgiving Table—What’s Cooking?

[62:03 – 65:48]

• The hosts share Thanksgiving menus: seafood gumbo, feta labna dip, roasted broccoli rabe, chocolate chess pie (with Vietnamese instant coffee in the whipped cream—verdict pending).
• Marisa’s traditional family feast: turkey, mashed potatoes, Jeremy Ricker’s gingery squash (in memory), and potato rolls “because that’s all the six-year-olds eat.”

Notable Quotes

• “I love instant potato flakes. They’re useful and they last forever... although I did put them in a jar because it’s me.” – Marisa [65:24]

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Where to Find Marisa

• Website: foodinjars.com
• Instagram/Facebook/TikTok: @foodinjars
• Substack: The Food in Jars Family

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "If you can boil water, you can can." – Marisa [28:20]
• "Teaching people to can is...helping them release a fear." – Marisa [30:08]
• "Stick to the Center for Home Food Preservation, Extension Services, Ball, Food In Jars—those are really good resources." – Megan Scott [50:37]
• “If they talk about canning butter, that is a website or a YouTube channel you want to stay away from.” – Marisa [50:50]

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Key Timestamps

• [10:03] – Marisa’s introduction and family canning traditions
• [17:16] – The origin story of Food In Jars blog and the early canning blogging era
• [27:36] – How to overcome canning anxiety and practical, safe starting points
• [31:46] – How to evaluate safety/validity of recipes and the state of information overload (and AI risks)
• [45:31] – Listener resources Q&A: best canning safety sources
• [55:06] – How to spot less-than-safe preserved foods
• [58:52] – Joy Scouts challenge: Rombauer Jam Cake

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Takeaways

• Canning isn’t mysterious or dangerous if you follow reliable sources and understand basic acid and process safety.
• Food preservation is a living tradition—family stories, resourcefulness, and thrift are cherished alongside scientific rigor.
• Don’t be swayed by online canning myths, “miracle” methods, or the unfounded authority of AI.
• If in doubt, check the NCHFP or Food In Jars. When gifting or receiving home-canned goods, practice polite vigilance.

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Further Resources

• National Center for Home Food Preservation: nchfp.uga.edu
• Food In Jars: foodinjars.com
• Local Extension Offices: Search “[your state] extension canning”
• Joy of Cooking: joyofcooking.substack.com

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For questions or to share your Joy story, call the Joy of Cooking Hotline: [phone]. Follow @thejoyofcooking on Instagram and stay tuned for next week’s Portland restaurant rundown!

Transcript

[A]

Sa.

[B]

Welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and what we're cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, Joy of Cooking user and fan and kitten enthusiast.

[C]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking.

[A]

I'm.

[C]

I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And I have three bags of cornmeal in my freezer right now.

[D]

Really light on the cornmeal. I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. And I bought an entire bunch of celery this week and felt fiscally irresponsible on the drive home.

[C]

Yeah, expensive celery.

[D]

I feel like it might have just been, you know, I was making the recipe for last week, the black eyed peas and greens, because, you know, we chose that one because it's, you know, supposed to be an economical recipe.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know. Just in that context, I didn't even go outside of the produce section and it felt like I had spent a ton of money for what I got.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But then I looked, I looked at like, we sign up for like the rewards card or whatever at the grocery store. And so I just had a curiosity. I like looked at last November and it was the same price. So I think this, this is like one of the first, like, old man yells at cloud moments that I've had. I mean, probably not. I'm sure I' had plenty at this point, but.

[C]

But you did buy a whole bunch of celery and not just what we needed for the recipe.

[D]

It's true. I usually like, limit myself to, like, even when the produce people obviously do not want you to separate the bunches. I will be a bad person and just take off. Like, you know, you know, if it's.

[C]

Selling by the pound, it's meant, it's, it's meant to be done. Yeah. You just do it. You should just pick how much you want.

[D]

Yeah, but, you know, it's Thanksgiving week. We're not doing stuffing, but we are making gumbo. And then, you know, I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, probably we'll use it all.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

We weren't just using. It wasn't. I feel like you're calculating the expense as if it's just for that one recipe. But the greens were kind of expensive, too, Right?

[D]

Let's not talk about it.

[C]

We'll talk about. We'll talk about that recipe in just a second. What's everybody been making this week?

[B]

Let's see. We made homemade ramen.

[C]

Last night.

[B]

We had to go out to Beaverton, which, if you're a. In Portland, it's. I don't know why it feels like such a trek. Nothing is that far. It feels far.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But whenever we go out there, we're like, well, we have to go to Uajimaya. So we just picked up supplies, and then we made the chashu from the Joy, and it turned out great.

[C]

Oh, good. Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't realize it was so easy.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like such an e. For some reason in my brain, I'm like, oh, that's gonna be a very complicated recipe. But it is the easiest thing. It just takes time. But other than that, it's, like, so simple.

[D]

Yeah. And you kind of have to have some patience, like letting it cool down all the way before you try to slice it.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

That can be. I don't know, like, if you jump the gun, it can be a little tricky.

[B]

But I feel like it's, like, an impressive thing to make and for not much labor.

[C]

Yeah. I think the hardest part of that recipe is just getting the pork.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That you need to make it because it's not sold everywhere. But if you have a good Asian supermarket, they're probably going to have it.

[B]

Yeah. And we're going to try the. You said that you have a chicken chashu as well, so.

[C]

Oh, the Shoyu chicken.

[B]

We're gonna try that at some point, too.

[C]

That's a really good. Okay. Really good, easy weeknight kind of recipe.

[A]

Perfect.

[C]

Yeah. Let's make that all the time for rice bowls and stuff.

[D]

I'm more overdue.

[C]

Yeah, we should make that this week. Actually, I have had a couple of pretty lazy weekends, and I've just been cooking all day, which is, like, kind of my favorite. I forgot how much I liked doing that. Yeah. And I don't usually have a whole day to just, you know, mess around in the kitchen, but this past weekend, I made my annual batch of fruitcakes because they need, like, a month to sort of sit around, and they don't taste as good. Right. Right after you make them. They just need time for all the spices to kind of dissipate and not be as strong. And then I also soak mine in booze, so that usually helps over time. And over time, it kind of mellows, so it's not such like a raw alcohol flavor.

[B]

You're not taking like a shot when you're eating your fruit.

[C]

Well, no, but they're really good already though. I tasted little edge of one and I'm very pleased with how they've turned out. This year I'm using the joy of cooking dark fruit cake. There's a light one and then a dark one. I use the dark one this year and it has like molasses and a bunch of. I only use dried fruit. I don't use the candied fruit. And what else? I used Jamaican pot still rum for kind of like a little bit of funky flavor. But I'll be giving a little bit. Yeah, just a little. I'll be giving those out. So you'll probably end up with at least half of one. Oh, well, I hope so.

[D]

Didn't you plump up the dried fruit with some black tea this time?

[B]

Oh, that sounds good.

[C]

Some of the fruit seemed a little bit dry and so I just brewed up some a strong batch of black tea and then soaked the fruit in there for 15 minutes, drained it off, and it was really. It made a big difference. And then the leftover tea liquid was super delicious. I don't know what to do with it, but it just tastes really good. It's like slightly sweetened, fruity black tea.

[B]

Put it on vanilla ice cream.

[C]

Ooh, yum.

[B]

Sounds everything can go on vanilla ice cream.

[C]

I could do like almost an affogato with ice cream and heat up some of that tea and. Yeah. Oh yeah, that sounds really good. Really good. Awesome. Well, we got to talk about the black eyed peas and greens. We kind of. We're coming back. Certainly peas and creams, which was the Joy Scouts recipe of the week. John, since you made the recipe, why don't you talk a little about it other than your celery debacle? What happened?

[D]

I mean, yeah, like, like you were talking about the bunches of greens at our most convenient supermarket are very small and just a little too expensive. So I ended up going for like mustards, which was like a bigger bunch for the same amount of money. And then some collards, and then I ended up adding them at different times because the mustards don't. I mean, there's. It's kind of a flimsier leaf, so it doesn't take as long as. But yeah, we had a ham hock in the freezer and so I used that. It was like the most miserly, like, ham hock ever. I think I Got like, maybe a quarter cup of shredded meat off of it.

[C]

Yeah. So it's hard to get a good ham hock here.

[D]

It's just like you were talking about that earlier last week, and. Yeah.

[C]

I don't know why you didn't believe me. You were skeptical of me.

Never again.

But, yeah, I mean, it turned out really well. Like, it was delicious. We used different. We didn't use black eyed peas because. Well, I'm saving those for New Year's.

[D]

As is tradition, we had to clear out some beans. First in, first out on the beans. So what do we. What were they called?

[C]

They were the. Were they the caballero. Rancho Gordo Caballero beans. Like the black and white ones that kind of look like a cow.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Fancy beans.

[B]

They're so pretty.

[C]

Yeah, they're really pretty. And those turned out. Those were great. They really thickened and created almost like a bean, like gravy. So it was very, like, stick to your ribs feeling meal. And it made a lot of food.

[D]

But, you know, it was totally overshadowed by the cornbread you made.

[C]

Yeah, it was a really good batch. I.

[B]

You're so good at cornbread.

[C]

Thanks. You really are.

[D]

This one was especially really. It was one for the. For the books.

[C]

Well, John's always wanted me to put green chilies and cheese like cheddar in the cornbread, which is great. But every time I add cheese, I feel like I can never taste it. Like, it just doesn't come through. And so this time I was like, damn it, this. This cornbread is going to taste cheesy. I'm. I'm going to add. So I added a lot of cheddar in bigger chunks, like cubes, rather than shredding. And that did. I mean, the cheese. You could taste the cheese. It was there.

[A]

Yes. We.

[C]

We left the cornbread on the counter while we were eating dinner and came back and one of our cats had eaten a corner of it. So even cats like it. It's really good.

[D]

The bread. The bread.

[C]

Focused cat. Yeah. So if you end up making our black eyed peas and greens recipe, let us know what you think. You can tag us on Instagram at the Joy of Cooking. We would love to see what you make. Oh, and before we move on to the next segment, I did want to just mention that I'm creating our 2025 favorite cookbooks list for the year, and all of those books are going to be in our bookshop.org affiliate shop, which [e-mail] shop joyofcooking. Just. We get like a small commission on any books you buy there. And all that goes to support the pod. Hey Joy of Cooking listeners, did you know the same family that taught America how to cook also taught California how to make world class Chardonnay. The same joy and passion for life that inspired Irma Rombauer to write the Joy of Cooking inspired her great nephew Kerner Rombauer to establish establish Rombauer vineyards, founded in 1980 in the Napa Valley. Rombauer has been producing acclaimed wines from California ever since. While they're famous for their iconic California Chardonnay, Rombauer crafts a diverse collection of delicious wines that bring joy to your table. Ready to taste the legacy? Visit rombauer.com joy or use code joypod, all caps for 15 off your order. That's R-O-M-B-A-U-E-R.com joy or code joypod, all.

[E]

Caps must be 21 to enjoy this.

[C]

Week we would like to welcome Marisa McClellan to the table. Marisa McClellan is a food blogger, cookbook author and canning teacher who has been writing about food on the Internet for more than 20 years. She is the author of Food in Jars, Preserving by the Pint, Naturally Sweet Food in Jars and the Food in Jars Kitchen. She has written for a variety of publications including the New York Times, Better Homes and Gardens and the Kitchen. She lives in Portland, Oregon with her husband and six year old twin boys. Marisa, welcome to the thank you so much.

[A]

I'm so glad to be here.

[C]

What have you been cooking this week that you are excited about?

[A]

Well, so my cooking situation so we moved back to Portland. I grew up in Portland and we moved back about five months ago and I'm currently living in a little apartment literally behind my parents house. And so I'm cooking for six most of the time now, which is a real departure for me. So I've been cooking a lot of like big things things. It's like let's make a casserole that'll last for more than a night so that I don't have to do this again. And so last night I made a pasta bake. You know beef and spinach and peppers and onions and tomato sauce and you know, penne pasta and then smothered the whole thing in some parmesan and mozzarella. And I made enough for three nights because I was taking one to someone who had just had a baby and so I made a truly vast quantity and I was like oh yeah, I do remember how to make really huge volumes of food. It was very satisfying. Other sort of casserole things I've made recently, I made sort of a ground turkey cottage pie that was really good. Very autumnal feeling. And then I've been making like a lot of chicken parm because that is something that my kids will eat and it can go in different directions. And so, like, they'll eat it plain and then we'll top it with some tomato sauce and mozzarella. We've been on a big sort of Italian kick lately in anticipation of all the Thanksgiving food. Like, you gotta eat something different before you spend a week eating Thanksgiving food. So that's kind of been the goal recently is like, get as much Italian and tomatoey stuff in before we shift into that week of turkey.

[C]

Yeah. Do you have any chicken parm hacks, or do you make it pretty old school?

[A]

You know, it has really evolved for me. I used to be someone who sliced the chicken breast lengthwise, but recently I've started cutting them across the grain and then kind of mashing them as I bred them. And it makes a smaller piece of chicken, but it's so much more tender than if you cut them into large flat pieces. And it's also great for kids because they can then pick them up and dip them. So, you know, they're not very big, but they cook faster, they're more tender, and you don't have to like pound anything. You just kind of mash it a little bit as you're breading it and you're golden. The other thing I've really started doing is instead of setting up like a three stage breading station, I break the eggs, I beat it, I put all the chicken in and then I dust the flour over and kind of make this disgusting mess. But then you're just ready to bread and it goes really fast and it's less dishes. And so those are kind of my shortcut these days. But really, the cutting across the grain makes for such a tender, fast cooking little cutlet that I'm never going back.

[C]

Yeah, good, Good advice.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I have to try that.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Especially like the breading station. You're always supposed to use like one hand for the wet and then one hand for the dry. And I always get it messed up.

[C]

Yeah, I'm not good at that either. I don't know. It's like I can't. My brain just can't save one. Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, that was part of the reason I started doing this. I was like, I need this to be easier Less mess and less process. And the other thing, I do too sometimes, especially now that I'm here with my parents. My mother is sort of a recovering almond mom, and so she still balks at the idea of frying something, even a shallow fry. And so I do cooking spray and brown them in the oven, like under the broiler. And they cook in like two or three minutes that way and you still get a nice crispness. And I satisfy my mother's need to not have something fried in her house.

[D]

Yeah, the, the oven fried.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Still a thing.

[C]

Oh yeah.

[D]

Definitely was very popular.

[C]

I, I like oven frying. Just, I mean, I like frying, but I, I like oven fried stuff because frying is messy.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

So messy.

[C]

The mess more than anything for me.

[A]

It's like, oh, and then the smell.

[B]

The smell is what gets me.

[A]

Lingering smell.

[C]

Yeah. Heard.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

What is your relationship to the Joy of Cooking?

[A]

Oh, I am, I come from a Joy of Cooking family. Like we go way back. When my parents first got married in 1970, my grandmother gave my. So her mother in law gave my mom her first copy of the Joy of Cooking. It was that sort of late 60s turquoise covered one under the dust jacket. And that was the foundational cooking volume in my house growing up. So anytime any big holiday was coming along, my dad would pull it out to like remind himself how long the turkey needed to be cooked. My mother, who is also dyslexic, messed up the pie crust recipe from the Joy of Cooking for years because she misread it for like 35 years until she was like, wait a second, I've been doing this wrong for all these years. But she always misread it in the Joy of Cooking.

[C]

But she must have worked okay. It worked okay.

[A]

But she was like, why is this so hard? And she was like transposing one number, but it was still like that's. She looked at it, she made it wrong every time, but it still was fine. My sister in her first house painted her dining room. She color matched the color, the copy, the COVID of that book and color matched her dining room to that edition. In the years since I've been sort of, you know, in the 20 years that I've been an adult cooking, like, I found the, the same edition copies for my sister and me. So we each, everybody has one like, because that is the one that we all grew, that we grew up with, that my parents cook from. So. Yeah. And I personally have I think six or seven different editions, although I, I cut back a little when we moved recently, I think I might be down to three, but still plenty. Plenty. So, yeah, I think. Is that.

[C]

Yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty.

[B]

The dining room is actually, like, seals the deal.

[C]

I feel like also you. You getting that addition for your sister and so you can all have the same one. That's such a nice. Like, sometimes we hear these stories about families who end up fighting over the copy, which is kind of. It's cute in a way, but it's also sad. It's like we don't want anyone fighting over.

[A]

No, nobody's fighting everybody's own. Although my parents is literally in pieces. Like, it is in several pieces. It has been taped together, and then the tape has failed, and then. And now you have sort of, like, the front half and the back half and then a middle chunk.

[C]

That's awesome.

[D]

Well, luckily, 1963 editions are not quite collector's items yet. There's a lot floating around for everyone that needs one.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know the extent of your fame. I feel like you're a famous person, because. I know. I do, too. You were, like, one of the first blogs that I sort of religiously followed, and it was around in the kind of, like, early blogging times. But, like, I always feel like everyone knows who you are, and you're, like, the canning expert. But, like, how did all that get started? Where did that canning passion come from?

[A]

Well, so I grew up canning a little bit. So I grew up here in Portland, you know, growing up picking, like, the neighborhood empty lots, blackberries. When I was ages, like, 10 to 14, we lived out in southwest. Southwest Portland right off Canyon Road, and had, like, an acre backyard. And the people who had owned the house, like, two people before us, two families before us, they. One of them had been a botanist. And so there was a quince tree and multiple apple trees and a pear tree in that yard and, like, a corner with rhubarb. And my mom didn't grow up canning. My mom is East Coast Jewish. Her mother didn't really cook. They had a maid who cooked. Like, it was a very different background. And then when she moved to San Francisco in 1970, met my dad, got married six weeks later, became like a raging hippie and sort of got a little bit enveloped in that back to the land movement. She learned to can. Like, they never had, like, that house with the acre was the most property we ever had. You know, in San Francisco in the early 70s, there was a lot of, you know, do it yourself and canning happening. So one of her friends taught her to can in that era. And so by the time I was a kid, canning was something we did occasionally. And so when there was, like, a lot of apples to make applesauce, or there was blueberries for making blueberry jam, you know, I grew up picking blueberries out on Soviet island. So all of these things, we just did enough that I was familiar and had just enough knowledge to be confident, but didn't really know enough to actually have any justifiable confidence. You know, it's like I just knew enough to be dangerous. And so then fast forward to the summer of, like, 2004. I was living in Philadelphia. I was starting grad school, getting a master's degree in writing, and starting to realize that food writing was something I was interested in. And so throughout that next year, I, you know, was dabbling in doing more food writing. I had a blog. I found myself at one point in that kind of era writing for Slash food, which was AOL's food blog way back in the day. And I was the editor of that site for about a year. And so I started canning. I had gone blueberry picking with a friend in South Jersey, came home with, like, 13 pounds of blueberries and went, what do you do with all of these blueberries? Well, you make jam. That's what I did as a kid. And so, like, I called my mom for a refresher course. I went to a hardware store and literally bought, like, five jars and made my first batch of jam. And I loved it. It, like, touched something in me where I was like, yes, this is something I want to do more of. I feel very satisfied when I do this. And so. So I started doing more and gig with Slash Food ended sort of at the end of 2008. I wanted to stay, and I was really invested in, like, that food blogging canning or food blogging world that was kind of rising up right at that moment. So, like, 2007, 2008, I was very involved with it, and I felt like, well, okay, if I'm leaving slash Food, I need to have something that will tether me in this food blog community. And I literally. I read someone's blog post one day about how they were freezing food in jars. And I just had this, like, visceral, like, God, I love food in jars. And, like, that was truly where the name come from. I was like, I really. I love putting food in jars. And I mean, it sounds so simple and silly right now, but, like, that was. That was the impulse. And one of the things I've always felt in life is that if you can name something easily, then it's an idea worth pursuing. Like, if a name just kind of comes to you, you're like, okay, okay. Because other projects I've had ideas for, there hasn't been a name that kind of just wiggles up from the ether in the same way. But food and jars, it was like, there. And so I started, I bought the domain, I made a WordPress site, and I started blogging. And I knew nothing. Like, it was that first year of writing. That site was very much like a course in self education in the science of food safety and food preservation, as well as writing about it. And so there was a lot of that going on in the background as I realized that people were paying attention to what I was doing and I didn't want to be dangerous. And so I learned a lot really fast about what was safe, what wasn't. I looked into taking a master food preserver course, but at the time, there wasn't one available in Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, or New York. Like, since then, many more have popped back up. But at the time, canning was really on the wane. And then because of the economic uncertainty that was happening in 2008, 2009, I happened to just start it right at the. The beginning of a, you know, a tidal wave of interest in canning and preserving. It's the only time in my life that I've been ahead of the curve, and it may well be the only time in my life that I have that. But I was there, and I was the only person sort of writing about canning. Like, just. And there were a few other people that I found later on, but because I had that boost of, you know, people being aware of me because of slash food and aol, I was the one that everyone found. And then it just sort of kept on going, and I got to write a book, and then I got to write another book, and, you know, I got to write four books in total and travel and teach people to can. And it's been really a fun ride. So it's wild and crazy.

[C]

I. I thank you for all of your work because I've definitely used. I use your website a lot. I've used your books a lot. The recipes are great and really reliable. And do you remember what your first blog post was about on your. Your site?

[A]

I do, actually. It was about. It wasn't a canning post. It was about making sauerkraut.

[C]

Oh, cool.

[A]

And like, and then, like, how to use the sauerkraut that you've made. So yeah, I still still remember.

[D]

Just out of curiosity, did you get any comments on that sauerkraut recipe?

[A]

I don't think so. I don't think I started getting comments from people until I. So I started the site in like February and I didn't really start getting any sort of traction or buy in until I started posting about rhubarb jam. And then like it took to the spring and summer for people. I also, in the very like that first year of the site, I used to give away a jar of everything I made. Like I would be like, okay, I just made this thing, here's the recipe and I'm going to give away one jar. So leave a comment. And like 10 or 12 people would comment and then I'd ship a jar off to them.

[C]

That's amazing.

[A]

It was.

The fact that I did that and that like people trusted it. I mean it was a different time. Yeah, you know, it was a different time.

[D]

The reason why I ask is we on our old Joyo cooking website RIP we had a Sarah Kraut post that got like so many unhinged safety, safety related like comments.

[C]

I think that post had the most comments of anything we ever did. And most of the, and most of it was fine. It was just people asking questions because fermentation is kind of a weird, you know, if you have never done it, it feels weird to do. But people were asking about the safety and then we'd get a lot of like it smell. Mine smells funny. Is it okay? And I'm like, well, I really can't. I'm not capable of answering that question for you. But that's part of the process.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. God. I still respond to comment. I get a lot of comments like people saying, is this safe? Here's what happened. And often it's not even people following my recipes. They're just like, I did this thing and yeah, yeah, I, I have. I spend a lot of time still going through comments. A surprising amount.

[D]

I was actually going to ask like if there are any hall of Famer comments that come to mind for you.

[A]

Okay, here's, here's the one. Someone left a comment, they sent an email and then somehow they found my phone number because I used to be really involved in the Unitarian Church in Philadelphia and I had like run a committee and my phone number was on like the archives of a newsletter from like 10 years ago. And this person had drilled down through the Google search pages to. They called me and because I didn't respond to their comment or Their. Their email fast enough. And so I answered the phone and they're like, hi, is this Marisa? And they're like, I left a comment on your site. I'm like, who is this? I think that's the most extreme.

[C]

Yeah, that kind of takes the cake. Yeah, yeah, don't do that.

[A]

No, that's.

[C]

Yeah. Finding someone's phone number like that in.

[A]

Of itself is kind of a. Luckily, I moved. That phone number is no longer valid. So even if someone tried to drill down, they would not find me.

[C]

Were you at all surprised at the popularity of your website and your books?

[A]

I was. I was taken aback at just how quickly it took off. You know, I've done a lot of weird creative projects in my life. Nothing was ever as embraced as quickly and wholeheartedly as food and jars was and has been. You know, my husband and I, a million years ago, actually, before we started dating, used to make an online cooking show together called Fork you.

[E]

Oh my.

[A]

And yeah, we did that in the, like, early mid 2000s. It was kind of like our courtship, I guess.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Like, basically he was like, he wanted to date me, but. But he didn't know how. So we made a video cooking show together instead.

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

And then did that for a couple years and then finally started dating. And then once we were together, we're like, well, we don't really need to do this to hang out with each other anymore. So that's kind of when it stopped. But, yeah, like, it kind of trundled along on its own for a while. I used. For a hot second when I was in grad school, I started a website where I collected stories from people who had worked and shopped at Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia, which is like this old, long standing public market with food stalls. And it's been around since the railroad came through because it was this sort of like the central point in Philadelphia for the railroad to come in from the countryside and sell food. And so I did that for a while. I got on the news about it, but no one ever really came to the website. So, like, I'd done all these little things, and food and jars was the only thing that kind of rose up from the.

[D]

You know, I mean, my money would have been on fork You.

[A]

Yeah, you would have thought. You would have thought. But you just, you never know what people are going to like.

[B]

So I learned how to can from you years and years ago. Like, literally, food and jars is how I learned how to can and how I felt comfortable canning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think it's because it's so accessible. Like, it makes it feel like you're not going to kill people. And sometimes it's just like, when you're reading other canning resources, I feel like, oh, my gosh, I'm terrified to do this. And yes, it is, like, important to be, like, safe and careful, but also it's okay to do it. Like, yeah, doing it forever. Like, for. Not forever, but for a long time. And whenever I have any people reach out to me and ask about canning, I always say, food and jars, just start there. That's, like, the way to get into it. But do you have any suggestions for people or any, like, how you push people along when they're maybe a little bit nervous to start canning and want.

[A]

To get into it? One of the first things that I always tell people is that if you can boil a pot of water to make pasta, you can really can. Like, this process is not really significantly different. And that kind of sets people's nerves at ease a little bit because you think, oh, my God, there's some, like, deep science or, like, you know, deep magic to canning. And there's not. It's like, if you can boil water, you can.

[D]

Can.

[A]

And then the other thing I tell people is that if you start with jam, you're really going to be very safe. Because when it in canning, and you all know this, that it is all about acid content. Like, that is the thing that makes a preserve safe or not saf safe. And so with most fruit that we're canning, it is naturally high enough in acid to be safe. And like, I'm on a bunch of different Facebook canning groups just to kind of observe what's happening. And someone posted a recipe the other day, and it was for cranberries, and it was like a very straightforward cranberry jam. Like, is this safe for canning? There was this whole debate, and finally someone kind of cut through and said, cranberries are very high in acid. There is nothing that you can really do to these cranberries that are. Unless you just do half cranberries, half onion, which is not probably what you're going to do. You're going to have a product that is going to be safe enough for canning. And that is kind of my line as well, is when you're working with these high acid foods, strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, yellow peaches, you know, apricots, cranberries, rhubarb, these are all things that are very high in acid, and that is what's going to prevent any botulism growth from Happening. And that typically comforts people enough that they can move forward. But it's interesting. One of the things that I've always said when I am doing a canning talk or demonstration or teaching a class is that teaching people to can is a big part of what I do, but the biggest part is just helping them release a fear, you know, because so many people come to the idea of canning fearful. And so once you can put aside that fear, you can actually learn and understand what's happening and be much more confident moving forward.

[C]

Do you find that that fear is kind of the biggest stumbling block for people getting started, or is there something else that new canners in your experience come to you with, having concerns about.

[A]

Or just I think the fear. They're afraid they're going to kill someone, they're afraid they're going to do something dangerous. And then, I mean, it's interesting because I do think these days we are in like, it used to be that people could just learn how, like, read something and learn how to do it. And that reading perception and comprehension is much more of a struggle for people these days than it used to be. And there's so much information on the like, videos on YouTube that are of such wildly different quality that I do think that separating out the useful information from the not so useful information has gotten harder in our culture today. So I don't know if that actually answered your question, but that it's, it's, it's an interesting moment that we're in.

[D]

Yeah, I feel like it's gotta be, you know, especially with AI recipes and, and whatnot and people trusting AI answers.

[C]

I mean, be not even AI, it's just like hard. The volume of stuff out there makes it hard to actually know what should I trust?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And like now I find when I just Google, Google something, I will get a bunch of websites I've never heard of. And I'm like, well, I don't know anything about this or who is writing this or if a human is even writing it or anybody test this? Yeah. Did anyone look at this?

[A]

But what's happening because of that is this very interesting kind of almost schism in the world of canners, where you see one group that's very fundamentalist in their approach to canning, where they're like, okay, there's so much more information. So I'm going to just very. I'm going to narrow it down. So I'm only going to follow recipes from sources that test every single recipe. And I don't mean just test like they Made it. I mean, they took it to a lab and had it tested for safety. And I applaud their vigilance. But that might be taking it a little too far, because not every recipe has to be tested for scientific safety. You know, we know. We know the acid content of a variety of fruits. We know that you need, you know, one tablespoon of bottled lemon juice for every pint of tomato product. You need to ensure a safe environment. There are certain things we know. So you can take that knowledge and build recipes. But I get a lot of flack from people now because they're like, well, are your recipes recipes? Is it. Has each recipe been tested by a lab to prove that it's safe? I'm like, no. Like, that's expensive. It. You know, it's. To have a single recipe tested by a lab costs around $500. And people always ask me, well, were your books lab tested? Like, no. No publisher in the world has that kind of budget. Someone said to me once, like, this was a master food preserver in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. And she's like, you've made a really good career out of cutting down tested recipes and adding some herbs and spices. And I'm like, yes, I have. That is basically what I do. I make smaller batches of tested and reliable things to make them and make them more flavorful and make them appeal to a modern palette. Like, that is literally what I'm doing, because I understand how the pieces fit together and I understand the science. And, yeah, I mean, that's basically what I'm doing. But most of us who are developing canning recipes in this day and age, that's what we're doing.

[C]

Yeah, we bought an acid meter for the last edition, but, you know, and it's a fairly affordable piece of equipment. But, you know, we weren't. It's not a lab. Yeah, it's not. It's not the same as a lab.

[A]

I have used those as well because when I was writing my naturally sweet book, those sort of, you know, coconut sugar and agave, and those things aren't as heavily tested. And so I just wanted to make sure that my assumptions about science and acid balance were being borne out in numbers. And they were. But, like, I can't report those. That data and be like, look, I mean, I'm not a scientist. I don't have any scientific background. I was a person messing around with a PH meter and some, you know, calibration fluids in my kitchen. Like, it's a very different thing.

[C]

Yeah. And I mean, this is part of why, you know, I feel like the U. The USDA and extension services have done all of this research and testing for us. So we don't need to like, we don't need to be afraid. If you just understand the kind of basics behind canning and acidity. You don't have to freak out that a recipe that hasn't been sent to a lab is going to make you sick.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

Yeah. If you're going completely off the map and you're not starting from like a.

[C]

Tested recipe, definitely recommend not going completely off the map.

[A]

Yeah. Start with strawberry jam. Amen.

[D]

That is a one case where. Yeah, you should get that lab tested.

[C]

Yeah. What's the last thing you canned?

[A]

I canned. I did a lot of grape stuff this fall. I got grapes from two different people and so I did like a more straight ahead grape jelly. I did some grape jam where I just cooked the grapes down and then pushed them through a food mill. So you got some of the, like the pulp and the little bit of the skin, but not, not a ton. And I, you know, I did some basic versions. I did some with rosemary. Like, I really, I feel like I've really exhausted the full range of grape possibilities this year. I have some quints in my fridge that are waiting for me to find the time. They were on the ground in my neighborhood, like, and then I saw the tree and they had like, they'd been a windy day and they just rolled into the gutter and I'm like, no one else is going to pick those up. So I picked them up and they're just, they're hanging out in the fridge waiting for me. My mom has been doing a lot of cranberry jams and jellies to like give to her friends and get ready for Thanksgiving. And so I have been sort of adjacent to or like wiping rims and helping with the cranberry process. So I've been very much in like the fall, fall canning. Oh, and I made a batch of apple butter recently. I am, am slowly in fits and starts working on redoing the slow cooker apple butter sort of technique on my website. And so I have, I made it, I took lots of pictures, I canned it and I haven't taken like the finished pretty pictures of the jars. And so once I do that, I will write a new post and get exciting.

[D]

Do you, do you prefer slow cooker to like, like oven methods?

[E]

I.

[A]

Yes, because the oven method you end up having to clean your oven because it really gets very splattery. And a slow cooker is a great tool for fruit butters in general. And I recently discovered that they make 10 quart slow cookers. And that has really been the game changer for me. I have a friend at Hamilton Beach. Even though I don't do. I'm not doing much. Like, I'm not. I'm not being much of an influencer or a blogger these days, but I still have a friend who works at Hamilton beach. And she was like, hey, do you need anything? And I was like. So I was looking at the website, I was like, you have 10 quart slow cookers. This is amazing. How did I not know that this existed? Because in the past, you know, kind of topped out at six or eight quarts, and that doesn't make a whole lot of fruit butter, but you can really get a lot in a 10 quart slow cooker. And so that has, you know, because then it really yields a serviceable amount of. Of fruit batter. So that's been my latest sort of evolution and process.

[D]

So you've been leaving the top off of the slow cooker the whole time?

[A]

What I do is I put like a wooden spoon or a chopstick across the rim and then put the lid on top so you have a little bit of vent. But if you leave the lid off completely, it either dries out on top without actually cooking down, so it kind of burns on the bot because it just like the heat's coming up from the bottom, so it starts to scorch because the steam can't escape because the top has dried out completely. So by just venting the lid a little bit, it stays moist on top, cooks down more efficiently, and really allows the slow cooker to do its work.

[D]

Nice. I'll have to try that.

[A]

Yeah, and I run it overnight.

[C]

You know, we're big fans of Rombauer Vineyards. They're sponsoring today's episode, actually. But honestly, their wines are fantastic, with so many joy of cooking dishes. My current favorite is their Sauvignon Blanc with our Khao Soi Gai recipe. That bright, crisp wine cuts right through the richness of the curry. It's perfect.

[D]

Oh, absolutely. Being Oregonians, we take our pinots seriously. We're excited about their new Pinot Noir, which pairs beautifully with our chicken jambalaya. The wine has enough body to stand up to all those bold creole flavors.

[C]

If you want to try these pairings yourself, head to rombauer.com joy or use code joypod all caps for 15% off. That's R O M B A U E R.com joy or code joypod all caps.

[E]

Must be 21 to enjoy.

[D]

You were talking about moving back to Portland from Philadelphia, and I was just curious. I mean, obviously you've gotten back into the canning groove, but has your canning practice changed at all since you got back?

[A]

So my canning practice has changed a lot since I had kids. Like, that was really the lightning strike in my canning practice. And then we have been working on this move for two years, a little over. And so, like, my husband and I and our kids spent a month in Portland in the summer of 2003 just to hang out with my parents. But it was also sort of a. How would this be? Because life in Philadelphia was fine, but my parents, you know, are in their mid late 70s, and there was this thought of, like, something should change. Who knows? Should they come to us? Should we go to them? So we spent the summer and decided that, yeah, we were going to move to Portland. And so, like, that was the moment where I didn't do a lot of canning from, like, July 2003 onward, because I knew we were going to move. I didn't know it was going to take over two years to affect it. So I hadn't been doing a lot of canning because I was trying to burn through the reserves. And I ended up dumping a lot of stuff towards the end there, where I was like, so this is not answering your question, but one of the things that happens, you know, and you guys know this too, when you write a book, you test a lot of recipes and. And writing a canning book, I often kept things to, like, see how they age so that I could answer those questions for people, like, well, how long does this last? But there's a certain point that you cross the line from, like, holding onto something to see how long it lasts to canning hoarding. And I really crossed that line. So I was working hard to use things up and then letting things go. But since getting back here, I feel those, like, bubbles, that urge to be canning. And it's hard right now because I'm in this temporary apartment with, like, a corner of a kitchen, basically. So it's not really a place where I can do much. And I can go across the backyard and use my mom's kitchen. But, like, my parents are in a little townhouse, so her kitchen is only marginally better than mine. And I will be the first to say, you can can anywhere you are. And I certainly we do can in her kitchen, but I'm just not in a place where I can, like, explore canning right now. And food Preservation. So I'm really looking forward to eventually, soon buying a house and having a real kitchen and some space. And we finally are under contract on our apartment in Philadelphia, which has taken a very long time.

[C]

Congratulations.

[A]

So that happened about two weeks ago. So fingers crossed. Knock on all the things that that sale goes through in January, and then we can actually buy a house and have a real kitchen and get my.

[B]

Jars back the way you need it set up.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, I feel like I've been in this, like, prolonged canning evolution. And, I mean, and I still have book ideas. And I'm like, I really. I really want to come back around and do, like, a food and jars family book where I go back to, like, to talk about, like, how having kids changed my canning practice and how wildly ambitious I was for other parents when I was writing these books and kind of make a book that people could actually do with kids and for kids and with kids. So that. That's something I'd like to do at some point.

[C]

That'd be so fun. Yeah, that sounds amazing. I seem to remember at one point, maybe I'm making this up, but you posted something on your blog about where to put all your jars, like canning jars, and you were putting some of them under your bed.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I mean, so in Philadelphia, we lived in an apartment. Did not have storage other than, like, what you see is what you had. So I had jars under the couch. I had jars under the bed. I had just, like, a tower of stacks of jars in the corner of my bedroom. I had a whole, like, closet devoted to jars. Like, anywhere you could think of putting jars. I did. It was shocking as we cleared out that apartment, how many jars there were. I sold and gave away probably a thousand jars, and I still packed a lot of jars.

[E]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it was. Well, if you spend 15 years canning and people are giving you jars and, like, I would do brand partnerships with jar makers. Like, it was a lot of jars. It was a lot of jars.

[C]

Do you remember when people were putting everything in? I feel like there was a period when Mason jars were just a cool thing to put stuff in.

[A]

Yeah, totally.

[B]

Like all of our wedding.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Boards and stuff.

[C]

Yeah, we had. We definitely had Mason jars at our wedding. Well, we gave, as wedding favors, like, little jam jars. That's what we did, too. Yeah.

[A]

I had a jam table at my wedding, and I got married in 2009. So it was just, like, right before Instagram and right before Pinterest. And so it was really just like, there Was no organization to the jars. They weren't decorated. It was literally everything I had canned that summer. I got married in September. So I just had a table of sharpie scrawled labels. Everything I canned that summer that was just. And you could take something. But my wedding was like in my cousin's backyard and it was potluck. So it was. Yeah, it was not super fancy.

[B]

I still think that that's such a great wedding.

[C]

Yeah, that's a great kind of wedding. And now I think all of us except for Dirk. I don't know when your anniversary is, but all of us are. We're married in September.

[A]

He is. Yeah, September here.

Good time of year. Yeah.

[D]

Us in the air.

[C]

What do you think is the best first project for someone learning to can.

[A]

It depends on the time of year, but I feel like blueberry jam is one of the easiest one because there's no real chopping or prep. You're just going to smash those blueberries. Two blueberries have some natural pectin, so you're more likely to get a set and they just. It's a satisfying finished product. You know, you don't have a ton of product loss. You know, there's some fruits where you start with five pounds and you still somehow end up with three jars. Like, you get a good volume from blueberries. They set up pretty well, they're easy to prep and they taste good. So, like, if you like blueberries, blueberries are a great project. The other if, and if you're not a jam person and you want to start with a pickle, dilly beans, not cucumbers, because cucumbers are really hard to maintain crunch. And if crunch is your like pickle metric, you're going to be disappointed. Whereas a green bean, it is sturdy. You can boil those suckers for a while and they are still going to be crunchy. And so like blueberry jam and dilly beans are always the first the starter projects I suggest for people.

[C]

I agree with those choices. I think those sound really good. I. I also love having not having to prep fruit, like not just being a throw in the wash it throw in the pot.

[A]

Exactly. Potato masher. Good to go.

[C]

All right, so each week we answer a caller question. And this week we're talking about, coincidentally, online canning resources. Dirk, can you read the question?

[E]

Do you know of any online resources or apps for canning safety? I want to send them to a co worker who recently started canning. I want to make sure she's being safe since she's gifting it to everyone in the office.

[C]

This is a great, great question.

[D]

I feel like we've been there.

[C]

What, just getting a gift of a canned thing and you don't know whether to trust it or not.

[D]

Right. Or being in a situation where canned goods are circulating and some of them seem a little sus.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that's happened. Well, as we've been discussing, foodinjars.com is a great online resource and very user friendly. Nice to look at, nice to read.

[B]

I think one of the nice things too is a lot of them are smaller batch. You're not making like, yeah, pallets of jars of things. It's like I want to make 10 jars or whatever it might be. It's much more manageable. Yes, a lot of things out there.

[A]

Yeah. Well, thank you. I I app. I'm glad to know that you guys appreciate my site. And the only other thing that I would really suggest is that if they haven't done any sort of canning education to go to the national center for Home Food Preservation and check out their resources. They even have like a little free online class that you can take if you've never done any canning before where you can just kind of read their things. And then there's like a little quiz that you take and you can make sure that you know enough to move forward in a way that's safe and fun. So Ball has some good recipes, but they don't have as much information on their website as they used to. Unfortunately, Ball got purchased. So the parent company of Ball used to be Jarden Home Brands and then they were purchased by Newell, which owns Rubbermaid and Sharpie and a bunch of other companies. And their perspective on the canning service that Ball provides is different than it used to be. And so they see themselves more as a container company than a canning company at this point. So there are some good recipes there, but their resources aren't what they used to be. So it's unfortunate.

[D]

That kind of explains some of the bulk products that I've seen where they're obviously not meant to be used for food preservation.

[A]

Yeah, their ethos has really changed, which is a bummer.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

But yeah, their website is almost exclusively like, you know, pectin added stuff as well. So that, that's something to keep in mind, I guess. But yeah, NCHFP UGA edu.

[C]

Well, we're going to put all this in our show notes so nobody has to remember.

[A]

It really is a great resource. And anytime someone, you know, reaches out to me and is like, well, is my recipe safe? What I really do is I go to the national center for Home Food Preservation and look and see is there a recipe that sort of lines up with what they're asking me about. And then I send them that link because there is no more authoritative source than that.

[D]

And their website has been updated.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

It looks kind of new and fresh.

[A]

Yeah. And if you really are interested, there's no app, but you can buy the national center for Home Food Preservation book. And they revised it not that long ago so it's pretty up to date. And there's lots more in the book than there's on the website. And it's not expensive. It used to be 1850 and like literally you sent in a printed out form and a check. I think in the last five years they updated that. I think you might be able to order it online now. But it is, is cheap and it's a really good sort of canning resource. It's, it's not going to have like anything interesting. Like you're not going to get any like creative flavor combinations. But what you're going to get is the, you know, straight ahead information science.

[C]

I was also thinking of there's a lot of local extension service websites depending on where you. I mean anywhere would be good. But if you just look up your local extension service, they usually have canning resources. And if you want to learn even more, you can usually find information about master food preserver classes if you want to get real nerdy about it. Which I was looking into just this morning thinking that would be cool. And then it was like it's going to be a 35 minute drive for, you know, a couple months of every Saturday. And I was like, oh, that's just too much. I can't do it right now.

[A]

But maybe someday I've actually thought about because there is the master food preserver course here. I was like, maybe I should finally do it. And I'd be like, is that ridiculous? I don't know. It'd be nice to have the qualification not having people question. Yeah, you know.

[C]

Yeah. And I was thinking also like those are all really good online resources. Where you should not be looking is sketchy. Facebook groups. I mean Facebook groups can be fun for sharing when you know what you're more what you're doing. But it's not in my opinion a good place to learn because you don't know any of those people and you don't know where the information's coming from. Don't use AI Please don't. Please don't.

[D]

Yeah, like I was saying before. Yeah, of Course, like the chatbots are definitely not a good thing to use, but also it's hard these days to actually sniff out what is AI and what is not. So, you know, there's entire recipe sites that I don't know if we've talked about them on the podcast, but we have encountered whole websites that have been AI generated, including the images and the recipes. It's really hard to say, you know, to be able to tell the difference sometimes, but do your best to try.

[C]

I mean, if you stick to the center for Home Food Preservation Extension Services, ball food and jars, like those are, you know, those are really good resources and they kind of have everything you need. The ones you don't need to go fishing.

[A]

The one thing I would say is if, if people need to learn visually and they're looking for video, there is a lot of really good video out there, but there's also some really suspect video. And here's my litmus test. If they talk about canning butter, that is a website or a YouTube channel that you want to stay away from because there is no way to safely can dairy products. And is that something a lot of.

[C]

People are trying to do on the.

[A]

Like, survivalist prepper side of food preservation? There's a lot of that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Like they will buy butter when it's on sale and melt it and like process those jars. And they're saying they're preserving butter, but it's like, but they're, they're not like trying to get into ghee. They're not browning it and separating out the, you know, this, the solids from the, the oil. They are just melting butter and canning it. And that's, I don't trust anyone who recommends that. Like, that's my cutoff.

[C]

That's a good, good advice.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean there is some, there are some, like, some exceptions to the dairy rule, but it's, it's ones that are tiny bit.

[A]

Yes. And it's tiny bits of dairy. It's not just like canning a jar of butter.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Like lemon curd, you know, those types of things.

[A]

Where, and honestly with lemon curd they have sort of edged over to saying it's not ideal and you should only can it in four ounce jars. And it really only lasts three months. Like they keep hedging the lemon curd. So like I have curd recipes in my first and second book and I sort of edged away from them in later books as they, as I watched sort of the science edging away from those curds.

[C]

Well, I've seen a lot of People say something like, well, my grandma did X, Y or Z and she's, she was fine. So I'm going to do this thing that is called survivor's bias. Your grandmother luckily survived her experimentations, but you're not. The people who did not survive aren't here to talk about it. So don't just like take a thing that used to be done. And just because someone was fine, that doesn't mean it's okay to do. Like canning advice has changed over the years. I was, we were kind of chatting this morning about like how. Yeah, at what point, like, do you trust a vintage cookbook or not? Like, what's the year cut off for that, do you think?

[D]

I want to say that like late 80s and onward, those are fairly trustworthy. Whereas, yeah, I don't know, I feel like that there was a big reckoning sometime in the 80s where a lot of the extension service recipes that, you know, had been circulated, like there was a big culling that happened. In fact, I think one of previous contributors to the Joy of Cooking canning chapters, Elizabeth Andress.

[C]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[A]

Yeah. She's the national center for Home Food Preservation person.

[D]

Like, yeah, yeah. I feel like she was at the forefront of that movement to try to, you know, improve like the USDA extension service and the extension service selection of recipes to make sure that they were scientifically sound.

[A]

Yeah, I actually, I, I don't remember where this number came or this date came from, but I read somewhere that 1989 was sort of the cutoff and that that was when a lot of recipes started to move away from open kettle canning and wax sealing. And you will notice like, you'll find jars meant for wax sealed jelly in the thrift store and they just stop at a certain point. And like some had plastic lids rather than those metal lids. But the late 80s, they stopped manufacturing all of those because that's when they started moving away from all those things.

[C]

I was talking to my grandfather over the last time we were there several weeks ago in North Carolina and he was sharing stuff about his childhood. So this would have been in the, oh gosh, the 40s probably. And he was talking about how when they would, they, they lived, they were very rural and when they would slaughter their pigs every year they would make fresh sausage and they would cook the sa. Like four minute patties. Cook it, put the patties in jars and then pour just the grease around the sausage. And they, that's how they preserved meat. And I just, I was kind of like, really? But I mean it worked I guess, but I don't recommend it.

[D]

Just makes you value your life.

[A]

It does.

[B]

I love my deep freezer.

[C]

Yes, freezing is good. That's a nice technology to have. You sort of were thinking about like, how do you tell if a canned good may not be trustworthy?

[D]

Yeah, there are two different sides to this question, I guess. What resources do you make your co workers who is so enthusiastic about canning aware of so that they don't make your, your coworkers sick and you sick? And then there's also like, what's some advice for recipients of questionable canned goods and like what to look for? And I don't know, I had a list of things going that have made me personally feel a little sketched out. But yeah, too much headspace or not enough is kind of a good way to gauge like how much attention is being paid to, to the project.

[C]

And for a non canner, headspace is just literally the airspace inside the jar. So where there is not product, I.

[D]

Feel like that we actually tend to not put enough headspace. Like I think we're at like about the half an inch side. But yeah, anything more than an inch, three quarters of an inch. Yeah, that's a big warning sign in my experience.

[A]

Like there are recipes that will call for more headspace, but it's about density of product. The more dense the product is, the more headspace you need in order for it to seal properly. But yeah, I run from products that like if you can see the top of the product and it has a ring on it, that's probably not something you want to eat.

[D]

Yeah, no date on the lid slash label. I feel like that if somebody's not dating it, then, well, you just have have no idea how old it is.

[C]

Or how long you can keep it.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Regardless of whether it's safe or not.

[D]

Then what Leaky, like leaky rusty or crusty rims? I mean that's a pretty obvious one.

[C]

I mean that can happen when you're canning. Like you can get, some of the stuff can come out and it gets crusty, but you, you need to clean it off.

[A]

Like it's. Yeah, I mean I, I never gift something that is sticky. You know, you just want to rinse those jars. Rinse those jars.

[E]

Oh, hello. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about an easy way to enhance your meals. Whether they are a healthy vegan grain bowl or that late night snack we'll pretend didn't happen the next day. And that easy way is Marshall's haute sauce. For 15 years, chef and cookbook author Sarah Marshall has been hand making and bottling these delicious sauces. She works directly with local farmers and highlights the lovely flavors of fresh, seasonal produce. They're gluten free. There are no additives, dyes, waxes or binders. And they have mouth watering combinations like serrano ginger, lemongrass or habanero carrot curry or even whiskey smoked ghost, which was featured on Hot Ones. So head on over to marshallshot sauce.com that's Marshalls H A U T E S A-C-E.com and see all the available sauces and spice blends. Oh, that's right. Sarah's created spice packets by dehydrating and freeze drying actual produce so you can impart flavor to your food with more vegetables. But that's a story for another day. Find all of these delicious creations@marshallshot sauce.com and enter Haute Joy. That's one word. Capital H A U T E capital J O Y. One word at checkout for 20 off. That's haute joy at checkout for 20 off. And now back to the show.

[C]

Do you have any other things to look out for?

[A]

Discoloration. Other. Like some things will always lose a little bit of color on the top. Like strawberry jam will always discolor, but if it's radically changed color or like the top looks crusty, like the actual product of, of the thing has dried out to the point where like, huh, I don't think it's supposed to be that way. The other thing is if a supposedly sealed jar opens too easily, that's a real warning sign for you if there's no hiss. Yeah. If you're, if it just kind of like it was stuck but it wasn't sealed like that. Like there's that, there's a line there where you're like, oh, I don't want to eat that.

[D]

Nice hiss.

[C]

Nice hiss. There's a YouTube channel that. Yeah, it's a long story, but nice hit.

[D]

What is his handle?

[C]

It's like Steve1989 MRE info on YouTube. Steve, if you're listening to this podcast, I'm a big fan and would love to have you on the show. It's a guy who eats MREs and talks about them and I just find it weirdly fascinating. But that's another can of worms. We all have our can of worms. Yeah. And so since we're talking about preserves, we wanted this week's Joy Scouts recipe to be sort of related. So we're going with the Rombauer sour jam cake on page 732. It's a really, really good cake and it has like, I think it's either 2/3 or 3/4 cup of raspberry jam in it. So it's in incorporated in the batter or.

[D]

Or BlackBerry.

[C]

Or BlackBerry.

[D]

You know, I think that you could probably go off script on this.

[C]

Yeah, totally.

[D]

Whatever you got.

[C]

But it has a really fun icing that. Well, it has two options. There's a brown butter icing that you can make, which is really good, or something called panouche icing, which is like a brown sugar. It's. I think it's called. What's the other name for it? Butterscotch. Yeah, butterscotch. Butterscotch icing.

[D]

Feel like we just need to change it to brown sugar icing. Yeah, I feel like that definitely sells itself, right?

[C]

Yeah, I've made it in a tube pan. So it's either a bunch or tube pan and then you drizzle the icing over and it kind of hardens and it's just really. It's just a really solid cake. And it's been in the book since 36.

[D]

Yeah, 1936. Irma's headnote. She has a good one for this one. It is a treat sometimes to stroll from paths with which one is contemptuously familiar. Try this one.

I wonder what the context was for this.

[A]

Yeah, I just feel like she was.

[B]

Smiling when she was writing that.

[C]

She's like, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of head notes like that.

[A]

You do get a little insane when you're writing head notes.

[C]

Yeah. You know, I think there was one head note where Irma was like, people seem to like this for some reason. I don't really get it, but who am I to judge? Kind of.

[B]

I like these sassy ones.

[C]

So if you make the Rombauer jam cake, it's a great holiday cake too because it's got spices in it and it's kind of like it's not dark, but it's definitely got a little bit of that spice to it. If you make that recipe, please tag us on instagram @the joyofcooking and let us know what you think. If you have a cooking question or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We would love to hear from you, Dirk. Can you please read or play our next caller question?

[E]

Hi, my name's Blair and I have loved listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast all the way back to episode one. When I was the second subscriber.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[E]

Not exactly a podcast question, but I figured this might be the best place to ask the experts. Wink emoji. My sister and I are heading to Portland, Oregon and Eugene. We are so excited, but have never been to Oregon before. Any must see restaurants or sites that you can recommend. We will have two nights in Portland and four nights in Eugene. Thank you so much. Happy cooking. Smiley face and a frying pan with a fried egg.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

Thank you for describing the emojis.

[C]

Thanks so much for that question. Blair. I have just the Google map for you. We'll figure out some way to get that to you. Perhaps. But we'll also answer your question more specifically in the next episode. All right, everybody, what are we cooking this week?

[B]

It's Thanksgiving here right now.

[C]

What are you making for this?

[B]

Well, I am making what John Becker told me to make because I was feeling like I. I just was not feeling it. And we're doing non traditional Thanksgiving. My sister is cooking some lamb and making a salad with squash and dates and beets and all of this kind of stuff. So I am just doing what John.

[C]

Told me to do.

[B]

We're also making fresh bread and we're doing a feta labna dip. That's the one where we chose to do with like a garlicky, crunchy thing on top and roasted broccoli rabe.

[C]

Broccoli, Rob.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Nice.

[B]

Thank you. I really should start paying you for all the text.

[C]

I'm like, what should I cook right now?

[D]

I mean, for a nominal fee.

We.

[C]

Will tell you what to cook.

[B]

Yeah, it's really, really helpful.

[C]

So thank you. Yeah, we're making. Well, we talked about a few times that we're making seafood gumbo for Thanksgiving. And I guess everyone's looking forward to it because we've been told that everyone's really excited. So that's. That's good.

[D]

Yeah, I'm glad that. I'm glad to hear that because I think last year I did, like a sidecar turkey. Like it. It was like. It was like supplemental turkey. And so I'm glad that my decision to preemptively not do that is being met with, you know, applause.

[C]

Mid car turkey, extra turkey. I'm gonna make a chocolate chess pie. It's my favorite chess pie kind of chess pie to make. And I'm gonna do it like a coffee whipped cream, I think, And I'm gonna experiment. So when we were in Vietnam last year, we kind of fell in love with these little instant coffee packets, like a three in one. So it's already got. It's got sugar in it, it's got the instant coffee and then like some kind of non dairy thing going on. But they're really good.

[D]

And G7, baby.

[C]

G7.

[D]

So good.

[C]

The logo has like two people dressed in business attire next to a helicopter. It's really good package. I don't know, but I'm going to try adding one of those to my whipped cream and just see what happens. I think it will be delicious, but you never know. So I'm going to do a test batch.

[A]

Sounds good. Sounds really good.

[C]

What about you? What are you making?

[A]

My family is very attached to sort of a traditional Thanksgiving. And because it's the first year we're doing it with my parents, like it's all of a negotiation. We're gonna see how it all turns out. But it's a, you know, fairly traditional turkey, gravy, stuffing, mashed potatoes. I do a gingery squash that my cousin Jeremy used to bring to our Thanksgiving. And he actually, he died about a year and a half ago. I don't know if Andy Ricker is my cousin and this is Andy Ricker's brother. Oh, God, I forgot that connection. So. So it's an ode to Jeremy Ricker, my cousin. So I'm making his squash and yeah, we really miss him. So it's a bummer. And then the other thing I make is I make a potato roll because I have six year olds and all they really eat is the turkey and bread. So I at least try to make like the bread part. A high quality, delicious bread. So that.

[C]

Yeah, I love a potato roll.

[A]

Yeah, they're really good. It's a recipe from the kitchen that I've been making for years and kind of have tweaked over the years. But you use instant potato flakes. It makes it really easy and it's a little bit sweet. It's like the perfect kid bread. It always like satisfies that kind of Thanksgiving roll.

[C]

Delicious situation.

[A]

I love instant instant potatoes.

[D]

I was about to say instant potato flakes are, I think, like maybe a little underappreciated.

[B]

They're very underappreciated, I think.

[A]

Yeah, they're useful and they last forever. I had a box when, before we moved that I'd literally been working from for like five years. And they just kind of all were always were the same. It was great. So although I did put it in a jar because it's me.

[D]

This reminds me, we haven't made the.

[C]

Quick gnocchi with that yeah, it's been a while, but it's solid. It's great for gnocchi.

[B]

That should be a Joy Scout recipe.

[C]

Yeah, we'll do that sometime, I promise.

[D]

Someday.

[C]

And Marisa, before we wrap, where can listeners follow you?

[A]

I am Food and Jars wherever you might look. So foodinjars.com on Instagram, Facebook I don't really make tiktoks, but I'm still there as Food and Jars. So I hope to someday get back into creating more stuff for the world. And I have a substack called the Food and Jars Family. So it's a little bit less canning, a little bit more just kind of what's going on.

[C]

Perfect. We'll add all those to the show notes so everyone can find you. Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking Podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we'll talk about Portland restaurants. And don't forget to make this week's recipe Rombauer Jam cake on page 732. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[B]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production House. Thank you to Dave Drusky, our production coordinator, Hayley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Dirk Marshall, our producer.

[C]

If you love the stories we bring you each week, please consider supporting us on Patreon. As an independent media company, your support is absolutely essential. It allows us to continue creating high quality professional episodes that amplify the voices of women, small business owners, writers, artists and creatives and keep their stories free from commercial pressure. By becoming a Patreon member, you're not just supporting us, you're investing in in the future of independent media. Please visit patreon. Com thejoyofcreationproductionhouse to join our community today. Thank you for listening and supporting our podcast Dreams.