Mashama Bailey of The Grey Restaurant: A Casual Culinary Chat About Paris.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Mashama Bailey of The Grey Restaurant: A Casual Culinary Chat About Paris"

The Joy of Cooking Podcast
Date: February 18, 2026
Host: The Joy of Creation Production House
Guests: Mashama Bailey (The Grey, Savannah & La Rette, Paris)
Hosts/Co-Hosts: John Becker, Megan Scott, Sarah Marshall

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Episode Overview

In this warm and wide-ranging episode, the Joy of Cooking Podcast crew welcome chef Mashama Bailey to the table for a heartfelt, funny, and deeply insightful conversation. Bailey, known for her acclaimed restaurant The Grey in Savannah, Georgia, and new Paris restaurant La Rette, shares her culinary journey from Southern food roots to navigating the complexities of cooking—and translating—Southern cuisine in France. The episode blends personal stories, practical advice, and rich reflections on heritage, identity, and the universal language of food.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kitchen Updates & "Hope Cooking" (00:37–06:38)

• Hosts discuss "hope cooking"—intentionally cooking complex or time-consuming dishes to focus on creation rather than doomscrolling or stress.
  • Quote: "We decided, because we were doom scrolling so much, we decided that was not really helping anything or anyone. And so I was like, we need to find a project... so we picked lasagna the first night..." – Megan Scott (02:08)
• Recent kitchen projects:
  • Lasagna assembly as a collaborative, joyful task (01:12–01:59)
  • Persian feast featuring Fessenjan and a celery root/fennel yogurt salad (02:20–03:02)
  • Sarah’s adventures with a new pizza oven and the discovery of cabbage pizza (04:07–05:02)
  • Joy Scouts recipe of the week: Yogurt and Honey Panna Cotta (05:05–05:43)

2. Welcoming Chef Mashama Bailey: Resetting with Bone Broth (06:40–13:31)

• Mashama shares a food reset ritual: making ginger-garlic bone broth after returning from Mexico City and indulging over the holidays (07:14–09:32)
  • Steamed bok choy and chili crunch, repurposed broth with rice and short rib, experimenting with dandelion leaves.
  • Quote: "I guess the whole world knew, except for me, that bone broth was gonna be so relaxing and nurturing." – Mashama Bailey (09:11)
• Technical tips for clear stock:
  • At-home method: simmer, settle, and skim impurities for clarity.
  • Restaurant method: raft with ground meat, veg, egg whites (11:24–13:00)
  • Quote: “I’m obsessed with the amount of gelatin I can extract from a broth. I’m obsessed with the clarity I can get…” – Mashama (10:38)

3. Joy of Cooking Memories & Culinary Heritage (13:31–17:12)

• Mashama’s first cookbook memory is Joy of Cooking (her grandmother’s copy):
  • "She has different notes that she wrote on certain recipes... that’s where the good, good is, right?" – Mashama (15:45)
• Grandmother’s parties, handwritten margin notes, foods spanning Hawaiian Chicken to black beans.

4. Southern Cooking & Explaining It to the French (17:12–26:42)

• Expanding to Paris:
  • The Grey in Savannah (“not necessarily cliched Southern”) and La Rette in Paris, where Southern cuisine must be “translated” for a different audience.
  • Biscuits, cornbread, fried chicken: French interpretations and challenges.
• Quote: “To go to a place that’s really clear about the type of food that they serve... you have to know how to explain things to people.” – Mashama (35:15)
• Paris Menu Adjustments:
  • Transitioning from schnitzel-like fried chicken to more classic "fried chicken on the bone" (23:32–25:26)
  • Importing American cornmeal for authentic cornbread (25:29)
  • Hero dishes: Hoppin’ John, rice midlands, embracing mac & cheese with local touches.

5. Running Restaurants Across Continents (26:42–29:27)

• Logistics of splitting time between Savannah and Paris: 50/50 monthly swaps with her business partner and growing a staff with cross-cultural experience.
• Seasonality insights from France:
  • French micro-seasonality and tradition inspired Mashama to think afresh about Southern food on her initial visit to France.

6. The Heart of The Grey: Dish Highlights & Approaches (30:21–33:06)

• Signature Dishes:
  • Foie & garlic grits—an elevated take on liver and onions from childhood.
  • Country Captain Chicken—coastal port city dish, deeply flavorful, and seasonal.
  • Quote: “One dish that I’m proud of is the foie and garlic grits...inspired by the breakfast dish of liver and onions and grits.” – Mashama (30:33)

7. Hospitality, Family, and Community (35:15–42:43)

• Meals as Relationship-Building:
  • Learning Savannah’s food through people and connections—not just recipes or markets.
  • Testing new dishes on family; feedback wrapped in gentle euphemisms (“colorful,” “interesting”).
• Quote: “The relationships are centered around meals.” – Mashama (recalled by Jon Becker, 35:24)
• The importance of family pride and the journey from uncertainty to finding confidence in food (40:16–42:38).

8. Paris Recommendations & French Food Talk (42:43–54:03)

• Listener Q&A: Tips for traveling in Brittany, Normandy, and Paris.
  • Brasserie Lipp in Paris for classic local experience (43:06)
  • Markets—especially Bastille Sunday market for “oysters, cheese, bread, smoked salmon, ham”
  • Patisserie chain “The French Bastards” for torte, cookies, carbon buns (46:20)
  • David Lebovitz’s website for curated Paris food recs (49:08)
• Quote: “I will eat any croissant on any corner in Paris.” – Mashama (46:20/44:58)
• Farmer’s markets in Paris, snack advice (olives!), and cheese/biscuit obsessions.

9. French-Inspired Joy of Cooking Recipes (51:52–54:16)

• Joy Scouts Recipe of the Week: “Carottes râpées” (French grated carrot salad, p.125)
  • Also celery root salad, loving raw applications of celery root and celery.
  • Quote: “I loved earlier when you all were talking about the dish that you made and you did a celery root salad. One of my favorite things...” – Mashama (52:41)

10. What’s Cooking Next? (54:24–61:53)

• Hosts and Mashama share current and future kitchen projects
  • Sarah: More Korean food, veggies focus.
  • Mashama: Has a spaghetti squash to cook—debating between Asian flavors (ginger, peanut, fish sauce) or Italian with sausage and cheese.
  • Jon/Megan: Reminiscing on the universal “spaghetti squash is not spaghetti” letdown—with tips for improving it (roast over high heat, finish with parmesan).
  • Quote: “Maybe that might be...I might go there, and I still have a little bone broth too, so I might do bone broth with the spaghetti squash salad-y thingy. I don't know.” – Mashama (59:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On connecting via food:
  “The relationships are centered around meals, and I thought that that was really beautiful.” – Jon Becker, recalling Mashama (35:24)

• On culinary confidence and family pride:
  “If I like it, I know other people are going to like it...I’m just happy that they kind of stuck with me because I think they were really nervous for a while but they didn’t show it.” – Mashama (41:22–42:38)

• On heritage and favorite Joy of Cooking recipes:
  “She has different notes that she wrote on certain recipes and within her copy of the Joy of Cooking. So...that’s where the good, good is, right?” – Mashama (15:45)

• On translating Southern food for French diners:
  “There's a lot of sort of explaining and connecting through enslavement or just Southern ingredients or rice or peas or that kind of thing...I almost need to cook the more cliched Southern dishes in Paris in order for them to say, oh, this is a Southern restaurant.” – Mashama (18:26–19:45)

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• 00:37 – Hosts introduce their cooking projects and "hope cooking"
• 06:40 – Introduction of Mashama Bailey as this week’s guest
• 07:14–11:12 – Mashama’s bone broth adventures and techniques for clear stock
• 13:31–15:58 – Mashama’s family’s Joy of Cooking legacy
• 17:12–29:27 – Deep dive into Southern food in Paris, menu adaptation, seasonality, and logistics
• 30:21–33:06 – Signature dishes at The Grey: foie & garlic grits; Country Captain chicken
• 35:24 – Relationships & community-building through meals
• 43:06–48:18 – Paris food recs: brasseries, bakeries, and markets
• 51:52–54:16 – Joy Scouts recipe of the week: French carrot salad (carottes râpées)
• 56:34–61:53 – What’s cooking: spaghetti squash dilemma, live coaching, and recipe ideas

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Closing & Where to Follow

• Find Mashama:

  • Instagram: @MashamaBailey
  • Also follow @thegray and @laray on Instagram

• Next Week Teaser: The hosts will focus on simple entertaining ideas.

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is friendly, relatable, and rooted in curiosity. There’s laughter about kitchen fails and nostalgia for comfort food, insightful storytelling around the challenges of culinary translation, and genuine warmth among the hosts and guest. It’s as much about memory and identity as it is about what’s on the plate.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a tapestry of Southern cooking’s global journey, culinary heritage, and the community around the Joy of Cooking legacy. Even if you’ve never set foot in The Grey or Paris, you’ll find approachable advice, food stories that evoke home, and inspiration to try a new recipe—perhaps with your phone tucked away.

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Recipe References

• Yogurt and Honey Panna Cotta (Joy of Cooking, p.821)
• Carottes râpées – French grated carrot salad (Joy of Cooking, p.125)
• Country Captain Chicken (Joy of Cooking, p.423)
• Bone broth & celery root salad (discussed in episode, techniques provided)

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Contact the show:
Call or text your kitchen stories and questions to 503-395-8858.
Follow for updates at joyofcooking.substack.com and @thejoyofcooking on Instagram.

Transcript

[Megan Scott]

Sa. Foreign.

[Sarah Marshall]

Welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of Joy of Cooking, Kitchen victories and misadventures, and what we are cooking and eating right now. Thanks for joining us at the table. I'm Sarah Marshall, producer of this podcast and Marshall's hot sauce owner. And I'm currently experimenting with my new pizza oven, thanks to you two.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And I propose instead of doom scrolling hope cooking, I like that.

[Jon Becker]

I'm Jon Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. And I've decided that lasagna is much nicer to make when you have company in the kitchen helping out, especially with the assembly. Like I, I roll the pasta. Megan's doing some assembly. We, we're both.

[Megan Scott]

That worked really well.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah, it worked really well. And it made it like less of a project and more of a. Well, I wouldn't say that it's like, you know, turns it into just your average weeknight throw it together type thing, but definitely went a lot faster.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it was fun too because that's my, the assembly part is my favorite part. It's very satisfying to spread all of the different sauces evenly in a thin layer. And that's. Yeah, I love stuff like that.

[Jon Becker]

You, you like just eyeballing, dividing ingredients into thirds or however many layers.

[Megan Scott]

I do.

[Jon Becker]

I hate that part in particular, I don't like, but.

[Sarah Marshall]

Oh, well, does that fit into your hope cooking? Because I want to hear more about this.

[Megan Scott]

Yes. We decided, because we were doom scrolling so much, we decided that was not really helping anything or anyone. And so I was like, we need to find a project. We need a, we need a big cooking project that's going to take hours to make that we're going to have to be in the kitchen for hours doing it. So we picked lasagna the first night and then the next and it went way quicker. It did. True. It still took a while. And then, you know, you got to go get the groceries. You got to. It's a whole thing. So that, that took up a chunk of time. And then the next night we did a, we, I wanted to do a Persian feast. So we did Fesson June, which is like a, a bra. Usually it has duck or often it, it uses duck, but we use chicken thighs and it's like A pomegranate molasses and toasted walnut braze. Super delicious. And then some tahdig the crispy rice and like a.

[Mashama Bailey]

What.

[Megan Scott]

What was it? A celery root and fennel yogurt salad. That was so good.

[Sarah Marshall]

That's great.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Called. It was the recipe called for a kohlrabi. What was it? It was from Bustani.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, Bustani. Bustani.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Probably not saying that right.

[Megan Scott]

Not sure if I'm saying that correct.

[Jon Becker]

Apologies, but yeah, no, that was delicious. Lots of Greek yogurt and, yeah, very good dressing.

[Megan Scott]

So that's hope cooking. Just pick a. Pick a thing that takes a really long time and put your phone away and be in the kitchen.

[Sarah Marshall]

I dig it. I like that you guys have made that choice because I think last time I talked to you, I was just hearing about doom scrolling and I was.

[Megan Scott]

Like, oh, no, it's a problem. I'm not above it. I wish I was.

[Sarah Marshall]

I dig it. I like that you've made that choice and that it's working for you. And I hope that other people can do that and that it's helpful. I like the hope.

[Megan Scott]

And then you get to share because it's just the two of us. So we can't eat a whole lasagna. So we, you know, texted. Shannon was like, hey, do you want some lasagna? Perfect.

[Jon Becker]

But she was busy. She was keeping her. She was also in the kitchen with like a short rib raise of some kind. Yeah. So maybe we'll hear about that next time Shannon's on.

[Megan Scott]

Nice.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, I mentioned the pizza oven, so I got a pizza oven that you guys referred me to a friend who was selling a pizza oven, and I bought an ooni out of nowhere. I had no plans to own a pizza oven, but because you had somebody who was. I got one and I've been experimenting with it. It's very fun. There's a learning curve a bit. But I've been having a good time figuring out my perfect dough. And, you know, I had talked about last time that my goal was to eat more veggies. So I made this really good veggie pizza yesterday where I like, cooked the veggies first and then put them on the pizza. So I did like cabbage and mushrooms and zucchini that I cooked, like in a pan with balsamic vinegar and then put them on the pizza. So good. I'm digging it.

[Jon Becker]

Nice.

[Megan Scott]

I don't think I've ever had cat, maybe have I ever had cabbage on a pizza? I don't know.

[Sarah Marshall]

It's my new favorite.

[Megan Scott]

I'm intrigued. Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

I mean, I love cabbage.

[Megan Scott]

I'm sure it can be.

[Sarah Marshall]

I like it every way.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

So I like to make cabbage salads, but cabbage pizza is like my new jam.

[Megan Scott]

Nice. Yeah, we're trying that.

[Jon Becker]

Definitely intrigued.

[Megan Scott]

Cool.

[Jon Becker]

You should try it.

[Megan Scott]

We also made the Joy Scouts recipe of the week, which was the yogurt and honey panna cotta on page 821. That's like one of my favorite recipes in the book because it's just so easy to make and it doesn't. It's a nice, custardy smooth panna cotta. It's not like bouncy and really gelatinous. It doesn't really wiggle, you know. That's nice.

[Sarah Marshall]

Nice texture.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Nice texture.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah. Wonderful. No notes. It's really good with. I, I think we added some plum preserves to the top and that was fantastic. I would recommend that.

[Sarah Marshall]

So you won't change anything for the next edition. You don't think?

[Megan Scott]

Not a bad recipe. I think it's good as is. I like it. I love it when a recipe test goes like that. It's rare. Hey, Joy of Cooking listeners, did you know the same family that taught America how to cook also taught California how to make world class Chardonnay? The same joy and passion for life that inspired Irma Rombauer to write the Joy of Cooking inspired her great nephew Kerner Rombauer to establish Rombauer vineyards, founded in 1980 in the Napa Valley. Rombauer has been producing acclaimed wines from California ever since. While they're famous for their iconic California Chardonnay, Rombauer crafts a diverse collection of delicious wines that bring joy to your table. Ready to taste the legacy? Visit rombauer.com joy or use code joypod all caps for 15% off your order. That's R O M B A U E-R.com joy or code joypod all caps.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Megan Scott]

This week, we would like to welcome Mashamma Bailey to the table. Mashamma Bailey is the co founder and head chef of the Gray restaurant in historic downtown Savannah and the recently opened Paris restaurant La Rette. Welcome to the table, Mashama. How are you?

[Mashama Bailey]

Great. It's so nice to be here. I love that intro part where it's just like a fly on the wall listening to what you've all been up to for the last few days.

[Megan Scott]

Well, now I'm going to ask you the same have you been up to in this past week? What are you cooking or Thinking about.

[Mashama Bailey]

Interesting enough, you know, I'm about maybe, I don't know, five years late to the party, But I made some bone broth last week. I'm not quite sure what it was. I think, you know, I think it was like coming out of the holidays and really feeling, like, extended. Like I've just been eating terribly eating things that I should not be eating, like cookies and lots of pizza and just like, lots of kind of like junk food. Like, my comfort is like, junk food, right?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Mashama Bailey]

If I'm feeling stressed, the first thing I do is go for a bag of potato chips or go for cookies or whatever. And I have like, there's not a bag I'll kick out of bed at all. And so, like, in feeling that way. And I just went on a trip to Mexico City and came back and I just felt like I've been overeating and just kind of like really being elaborate. And I said, I'm just gonna make some bone broth. And I got some beef bones and I got some short rib, and I decided to just make this broth full of ginger and garlic, and that was the base. And then what I did was I took some bok choy and I would steam and steam some bok choy in it and put like a little chili crunch in that. And I would have it the bowl that way one day. Then I would pull the pieces of short rib and ginger and garlic and I would smash that up and I would have it over rice one day. And with a little salt, needed to add some salt. Now today I'm trying to figure out, like, what I'm going to do with it. I have some dandelion leaves that I may put into the broth, which will turn it bitter, which. Which I like. And I'm trying to think if I'm just going to have it as a bowl of if I'm going to have it like a tea or if I'm going to, you know, add some more vegetables to it. So it's more like a vegetable brothy soup kind of thing. But who knew? I guess the whole world knew, except for me, that be beef broth or bone broth was gonna be so relaxing and nurturing. And it just felt like a really good way to kind of like, reset my body, especially before this big storm we had over the weekend.

[Jon Becker]

So, yeah, good timing with the weather. Yeah, I'm sure having that on the stove for, you know, a nice lazy simmer for so long kind of brought some warmth into the home too.

[Mashama Bailey]

It did. And My dogs were, like, kind of spinning around in circles, like, waiting for me to drop something. I did save, like, two BO for them, and I may give them to. Like, we're kind of held up. It's like I'm in Savannah, Georgia, and it's not. There's no snow on the ground, but we're in temperatures of, like, 20s overnight and mid-40s during the day. And in these old Southern homes, it kind of feels like you may as well have three feet of snow outside. Like, it's not that much of a difference when it comes to the temperature. So I may give them some bones because they've been really patient, and I haven't really taken them outside.

[Sarah Marshall]

I do feel like making bone broth is the perfect, like, storm project. Like, it's something, like, good to do when it's, like, snowy outside or cold or. And it just makes you feel like you've accomplished something and you're, like, doing something that fits with weather. It's, like, perfect.

[Megan Scott]

And it smells good.

[Sarah Marshall]

And it smells good hours just, like, great, and it makes you feel good.

[Mashama Bailey]

And I'm obsessed with, like, the amount of gelatin I can extract from a broth. I'm obsessed with the clarity that I can get with the broth. So it's like I can put it on the stove and let it rip, but I'm constantly there skimming off the top because I want it. I want it to be really clear and gelatinous. So I'm just constantly babysitting it. So it's like a nice kind of thing. It's like a puzzle, right? Like, you have a puzzle on the table, you keep coming back and putting, like, another piece to it, and before you know it, you know you're done. So, yeah, it's a. It's a really kind of lazy way.

[Megan Scott]

To nurture yourself in terms of making a clear. This is very off topic. I have so many questions that aren't about this, but I want to know, do you have any tips for making a clear stock or, like, clarifying?

[Mashama Bailey]

Well, yeah, so there's a few things that we like to do. So it goes from adding, like, a raft and creating, you know, creating a raft with ground meat and vegetables and egg whites and sort of stirring that into a broth that's cold, and then heating it up very slowly, and then creat space once it starts to boil, and turn it down to a simmer so it's almost filtering itself. So, like, the bubbles kind of filter into the raft, and then you're catching all of that. All of those impurities. And that really is the way we'll do it at a restaurant or at our restaurant. And I love having clarified broths, especially in the springtime, because you can really kind of show off the vegetables, the green of the vegetables and stuff like that. So it's like, one of the techniques that we do a lot when the season. When it warms up here. Also, I think at home, a good way to do it is to sort of rinse the bones or, like, you can kind of bring up the bones and then pour off the water and then add more water and bring it up to a boil and simmer it for a long time. You lose a little bit of flavor that way, but it gives you a really clear broth. And then for me, so I don't lose flavor. I just like to bring it up to a boil and just really kind of turn it off and let it settle, and then skim as much as I can off the top and then turn it to a simmer and let it sort of, like, ride for, like, 12 hours.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

That seems like a better alternative than the whole blanching and then draining off the water, because usually it's a pretty big pot. It's a lot.

[Sarah Marshall]

A lot of heavy lifting involved.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah, I guess, like, you know, one of qualifications. Like, what's one of the things that I. Job application is, like, must be able to lift 35 pounds. So, like. So I think, like, dumping a pot of soup is kind of, like, within my wheelhouse.

[Megan Scott]

And another question we always ask our guests is, what is your relationship with the Joy of Cooking?

[Mashama Bailey]

Oh, my God. It's. I mean, I'm kind of speechless. I didn't expect you to ask me that. Even though I'm on the Joy.

[Megan Scott]

It's not. It's not a trick question if you don't. If you didn't grow up.

[Mashama Bailey]

No, no, no, no. It's a very lovely, beautiful question, quite frankly. So my grandmothers are really, like, many of us around the world, our grandparents. Our grandmothers are really instrumental in, like, what we like about food, what we like about our families, what we like about ourselves. You know, like, grandparents are really important in our development. And my paternal grandmother was a really good cook. She really was a good cook. Liked entertaining. Like, she would have. You know, she would. This is before my time because she would tell us about how great her parties were, but she would throw parties in the basement. She would have Hawaiian luaus in the backyard, and she was really entertaining in, like, the 60s and 70s, when people would come over, still come over to your house, and you would bring the whole family, Right. The husband, the wife, the kids. All the kids would play together while the parents would, like, get drunk in the basement, basically. So. And so she was a big part of that. She really liked having parties like that. And one of. Really. One of her only cookbooks were the Joy was the Joy of Cooking. And she has her. She has, like. She has, like, the Hawaiian chicken recipe she used to do out of the Joy of Cooking. She used to make the black bean recipe out of the Joy of Cooking. There were certain desserts that she would make from that book. She have. My cousin has it now since she passed, which I'm gonna probably steal it from her. But she has different notes that she wrote on certain recipes and within her copy of the Joy of Cooking. So I don't know what year it was that. I don't know what edition she had, but she loved that book, and she used it all the time. And a lot of the food that she fed us came from recipes out of that book.

[Megan Scott]

Those little margin notes. That's where the good stuff is at.

[Mashama Bailey]

That's where the good. Good is, right? Yeah, exactly. So the Joy of Cooking. Cooking is. Was probably the first cookbook that I've ever knew about.

[Megan Scott]

Wow. Yeah. I also had grandmothers that were very good cooks, and they cooked a lot. Not so much entertaining, but they would have everybody. They'd have the whole family over after church on Sunday, and so they would cook these big meals for everybody. But they were not cookbook users. They did not own any cookbooks. My great great grandmother had everything on these little index cards that you couldn't really read. She probably didn't even need those anymore. But the best food. Yeah, Grandma food.

[Mashama Bailey]

That's really cool. Do you still have those index cards, or does someone in your family still have them?

[Megan Scott]

My grandmother has them, and I have expressed my interest.

[Mashama Bailey]

Okay. You gotta throw your name. You gotta throw your name in the ring for that kind of stuff. I was slow on the draw with my grandmother's Joy Cooking cookbook. I was opening up a restaurant. Yeah, you had your. Yeah. I was like, whatever you guys want to send me, that's fine.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, we've heard some stories of epic fallings out over copies of Joy that were not given to the right person. So. But I'm glad that your family did fine with that. So for listeners who don't know, you're the chef of two restaurants now or more. 2.

[Mashama Bailey]

So I'm the Chef of the Gray, the executive chef of the Gray restaurant in Savannah, Georgia. And also we have a restaurant in Paris, France, called Laray by the gray, which means. Which translate roughly as the stop. And so the Gray is in a formerly segregated Greyhound bus station in Savannah. We expanded and opened our second location just this past September in 2025. So we've been open only for a few months there. Still working out a lot of the kinks culturally and also, like, you know, from a menu point of view. It's so interesting learning about Southern food and what that means to the French audience. And that's sort of like the process that we're in right now.

[Megan Scott]

I'm so curious about that because I studied abroad in France and had a really hard time. Like, I remember trying to explain even just the concept of biscuits, like Southern style biscuits to my host family, and it just. It didn't translate at all because there bisque is a cookie. And I was like, no, it's not like a cookie. And you serve it with gravy. And they were like, okay, yeah, you know, wait, what?

[Mashama Bailey]

A lot of things. You know, what's interesting now is that, you know, they do have. There are restaurants in Paris that focus on Southern food, right? So you have gumbo Yaya that focuses on Southern food. And there was this place called Ellsworth that was there. I think it closed down recently, and they did biscuits and stuff like that. So you have certain restaurants that are quintessentially Southern. So there are reference points there. Like, fried chicken is exploding in Paris right now. So, like, there are certain things that are really kind of relatable. I, too, did. I also studied in France back in 2007, 2008, and ironically enough, that drew me closer to Southern food when I came back home. I was living in New York at the time, and I was working in restaurants, and my parents were living in the South. And I was like, I want to move to the South. I want to cook Southern food. Because going to France really made me appreciate the way that Southern food is connected to historically to American food. Right? Like, it just made me really appreciate that connection. And I was like, wow, this is like, boom. I want to cook Southern American food. But going over there now and having this restaurant and. And our restaurant in Savannah is so nuanced. It's really seasonal. It's almost very focused on what is grown around here. And it's not necessarily cliched Southern. Even though we're in Savannah, like, we don't necessarily. We don't do shrimp and grits. We have fried chicken, but we really only serve it at brunch. Our Southern fare is mainly focused on what's growing in the ground. And the techniques we use to represent those ingredients are a little bit more refined. They're not necessarily smothered and covered as you would think of Southern food to be. So translating that to Paris, it almost feels a little muddled, and it almost feels a little too European for them to actually understand what my version or what our version of Southern food is. So there's a lot of sort of explaining and connecting through, you know, enslavement or just Southern ingredients or rice or peas or that kind of thing. So I almost need to cook the more cliched Southern dishes in Paris in order for them to say, oh, this is a Southern restaurant. Because right now, it's like, we have cornbread on the menu, we have black eyed peas on the menu, we have sort of fried chicken and that kind of thing, but we do a schnitzel, and so they immediately connect it to Germany. So it's just sort of like, wait, how is this Southern? And you're like, oh, wait, okay, I kind of have to get back down to basics, and I have to really explore the sort of quintessential Southern dishes in order to really express what that means. And I don't think all of those dishes have to be quintessentially Southern, but we definitely need some hero dishes on the menu in order for. For the restaurant to be perceived as a Southern restaurant. And that's been the biggest kind of, like, epiphany for me in the last three months, because, you know, in Savannah, it's easy. Like, it's easier because, you know, Americans get it right. We understand that there's an elevated soul food or an elevated Southern fair where we're in that age of elevation. Every people don't necessarily gravitate towards those same ways we cooked in the past because they've been too heavy or perceived as unhealthy. And I think this generation of chefs have found a way to celebrate those dishes, making them lighter while incorporating different cultures within those dishes. So it's like, okay, well, I have this. I have a chicken, and instead of doing it on the bone, I'll do it fried in this way or I'll serve it in that way that is more of a Scandinavian technique or more of a German technique or even more of an African technique versus the way we used to do it back in the day in the south, the way my grandmother used to do It. So there's a little bit of clarity that needs to happen, because it's like, if it's not clear for the French, they don't get it. Italian's Italian, Chinese is. Chines know Korean is Korean. But when it comes to Southern, the. The. The kind of like, multiracial American ness of our food, I think is. Is found to be confusing.

[Megan Scott]

So have you found the menu? Are you shifting the menu towards a more like quintessentially Southern menu in France? Like, what are you changing?

[Mashama Bailey]

So one of the things that we have on the menu right now is a fried chicken schnitzel. And we open the gray with a fried chicken schnitzel sand. Because we found. I like a pounded chicken thigh. Right. Love it on a sandwich. So I like a quintessential sort of schnitzel. I find it the best kind of sandwich when it comes to a chicken sandwich. And I like it better. I like the thigh better than the breast and all that stuff. But what we're doing in Paris now is just gonna serve traditional fried chicken. And I think for me, I've always been a little afraid of serving fried chicken. And so because I don't want it to be, like, the mainstay. But now that I'm getting older, I think I'm just embracing those parts of myself a little bit more. And I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to serve fried chicken. So I think that's kind of like a one on one example of how we're going to change over what we do. Like how we're changing the perception of what we do in Paris. So it's like we're gonna serve fried chicken. We're gonna serve it on a bone. We're gonna serve like a whole bird fried. And like, you know, that's how you got. Either we can serve you in pieces with pieces, or you can have a whole thing, and then that's gonna be your thing. I think another example could be Mac and cheese. Like, they do like a coquillet over there, which are like really mini. Mini elbow macaroni noodles. And I thought that that was kind of cool, that it's like a kid's dish. It's like ham with a little bit of cheese, a little bit of butter. And I'm like, well, we're going to do like a mornay sauce, and we're going to do like a Kraft Mac and cheese. And so I feel like that was definitely identified as something southern. We're doing cornbread over there, which how.

[Megan Scott]

Is the cornbread going over?

[Mashama Bailey]

The cornbread's going over really well. We actually ship cornmeal from the States because I haven't found the right kind of corn milled cornmeal over there. It's a little too hard. And what I noticed, American cornmeal has that kind of powder that like, that dust, like the corn is softer and so it has that dust and that residue where there is just more like polenta. So it's not like dusty. It's just a harder corn. It really affects the bread when it's made. So we use American cornmeal when we make our cornbread there. And then also we do a lot of different rice dishes. So we'll have hoppin john or we'll have just like a rice midland dish that is almost like a purlieu. So it's a little bit more coastal. So those are really kind of like the hero dishes that we show. And I think as we grow and the seasons change and because we haven't really gone through our first year yet, we hit our first spring, excited to go over there in February to prepare for spring and start looking at what we're going to serve through a southern lens in Paris for spring.

[Sarah Marshall]

I was wondering logistically what it's like for you to have a restaurant in Savannah and in Paris, like, how often do you plan on going back and forth? Because I know your restaurant in Savannah is so focused on what's going on seasonally. So to be in Paris and figure out what's going on there, how often do you plan on going back and forth?

[Mashama Bailey]

We're just really working it out. Luckily my business partner is there now and really luckily. The general manager there worked for us for four years in Savannah.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, amazing.

[Mashama Bailey]

She's French and so she gets the food. Her husband is from Macon, Georgia, and so like they understand. They get it. The opening of the restaurant. I was there for the majority of the second half of 2025. I just been home for the month of January. I go back in February. So we, this is my long winded way of saying that we're just going to, we're going to do like a 50, 50 swap. So I'll be there for a month and then he'll go for a month and then I think around September, October. I think for the first year we need to kind of go one and one. I'm there for a month, he's there. We just kind of, we just kind of ping pong it like that. But I have a great cdc. She just Left Savannah. I think she got a taste of what we do. She was only here for few days. I think she should come back when the weather breaks and the springtime comes, and she can kind of really see how we get excited around these ingredients and what to really look for. Because, you know, in Paris, they live and die by the season. Seasonal changes are important, but micro changes in those seasons are really important. They really kind of focus on what's coming in and what's coming out. But I like that. And I. And I. And like I said, when I was In France in 2007, I immediately started thinking about Southern food. So I'm excited for the challenges that the seasons are going to bring.

[Megan Scott]

What was it about being in France that made you think of Southern food?

[Mashama Bailey]

The seasonality of it, The. The way that they kind of. They don't.

[Sarah Marshall]

They.

[Mashama Bailey]

I guess they do can and preserve. They just do it a little differently than us. You know, they. They more or less age things more. They do more jam and jellies, but, you know, but I kind of equate that to kind of like the whole pickle culture and the jam culture that we do when the season changes for us. So there are some slight variations. The braising, I thought, was really similar to what we do in the South. I think a lot of the food that I grew up with was embraced, and so I kind of related, you know, chicken and dumplings to, like, copel vin. And so I was just like, you know, this kind of makes sense. Makes sense to me.

[Jon Becker]

Chicken and dumplings version of coq au vin. That would be amazing.

[Megan Scott]

I would try it.

[Jon Becker]

I would do that.

[Megan Scott]

You know, we're big fans of Rombauer Vineyards. They're sponsoring today's episode, actually. But honestly, their wines are fantastic, with so many joy of cooking dishes. My current favorite is their Sauvignon Blanc with our cow soy gai recipe. That bright, crisp wine cuts right through the richness of the curry. It's perfect.

[Jon Becker]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Being Oregonians, we take our Pinot seriously. We're excited about their new Pinot Noir, which pairs beautifully with our chicken jambalaya. The wine has enough body to stand up to all those bold, creole flavors.

[Megan Scott]

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[Megan Scott]

Let's go with the gray. What dish on your menu at the Gray is the one. Maybe it's not even on the menu right now. But what is a dish that you're very, very proud of? One of your most. One of your favorite dishes there?

[Mashama Bailey]

So there are two dishes that I'm really, really proud of, and I think that those two dishes really explain how I think about food. And so one dish that I'm proud of is the foie and garlic grits. Pretty controversial, depending on your stance on foil, but it was inspired by the breakfast dish of liver and onions and grits. And it's something that I remember growing up on. It's something that I almost crave in the winter. And to have the foie and do an onion gravy and have it be this kind of delicate thing. I didn't realize it was so creative, but, you know, people found it to be really creative. And I think that that's one of the things that I'm like, oh, snap. Like, I think there's something there. Right? And then the second dish is the chicken Country Captain. So that's a very regional dish in the south, and it's really focused on the fact that we're a port city. Right. There's curry in that dish and almonds in the original dish and okra and eggplant. And it's like a stew pot of chicken that's served over rice and did at the grave was we kind of took that chicken. We made a double stock. Took that chicken dish. We made a double stock. So it felt like you were eating, like, a really rich chicken broth. And we built a sauce around that that was full of tomatoes and onions and peppers and things like that. And that's something that we kind of do in the summertime when we have, like, a lot of peppers and eggplant and okra and all that stuff growing. We kind of like to do that dish in the summer, even though people are like they want it all year round. But I'm trying to kind of make it more of a seasonal dish to really kind of show what the original dish was.

[Jon Becker]

That sounds amazing. I was. That was definitely one of the questions I was really wanting to ask was how. How, you know, how you treated Country Captain. It's, like, one definitely a favorite in my family.

[Megan Scott]

And strangely, I never. I had never had country captain until I met you. And I think you made it for me or you. I don't know. You introduced me to it. That just was not a thing where I grew up.

[Sarah Marshall]

But is there a Country Captain recipe in Joy of Cooking?

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Jon Becker]

Surprise, surprise.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah. It is the best. It's so good. It's so delicious and flavorful and, like, really, really. It's one of my favorite ways to eat chicken.

[Sarah Marshall]

I don't think I've ever had it.

[Megan Scott]

So I'll have to. We'll have to do it.

[Jon Becker]

We should make it country captain party.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

I mean, of course I want to come and have it at your restaurant, but I'm so far away.

[Mashama Bailey]

Come in the summer. It was really hot. Sorry.

[Sarah Marshall]

I was messaging with Megan about Savannah because I've been there only one time. It was a long time ago. I went to tour the art school because I thought I wanted to go to school there. And of course, that was 30 years ago or something, but I just have so many memories of it because it's such a wonderful place, just like, steeped in history, and I've never been anywhere like that before. And I was messaging you about it because it's like, it's. There's. It's just so hard to explain what it's like to be there because it's. It's not like here.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's very different from the Pacific Northwest. Yeah.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah. I really feel lucky. Like, it's. This conversation is really timely because I think when going over to Paris, I was. I was like, yeah, you know, like, this is what we do and, you know, this is how we do it. And I never felt the need to actually explain it. I felt like it was self explanatory. I was like, okay, you come in the Southeast and you expect certain things, so you're gonna have shrimp and oysters and this and that. But when you're really trying to explain yourself in a different language, you really have to be clear. And I think that for me, American food is so such a melting pot. Like, Savannah is like a melting pot. It's a port city. It's like people from all over the world have really set foot on this soil and also have left impressions on, you know, different. On the cuisine that's served here. And so to go to a place that's really clear about the type of food that they serve and where things come from, you have to cut. You have to know how to explain things to people. And having a clear through line is really important. And that's the thing that I didn't expect. Like, that's the part about opening up a place in Paris that I did.

[Jon Becker]

Not expect, you know? And the Chef's table episode that you recorded, which is beautiful and wonderful. Really enjoyed watching that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the show notes.

[Jon Becker]

You were quoted, and I think it was. The relationships are centered around meals, and I thought that that was really beautiful. And I was just kind of wondering how that informs your approach as a chef and as, you know, know your. Your version of hospitality.

[Megan Scott]

Mm.

[Mashama Bailey]

That's a good question.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Mashama Bailey]

I grew up with grandmothers that cooked for us. And we sat around, and my grandma, my father's mother, was really big on the fact that my dad didn't force us to sit at the table to eat. She would just be like, I can't believe he doesn't do that. We, you know, we sat at the table every night, da, da, da, da, da. And so it was like. So it's really interesting that coming to Savannah, really learning about the south in a different way. It's such a really quintessential part of the world. And I didn't know a lot, and I had to be introduced to people. You're not just. There's not a store or a restaurant that I can go to that's going to tell me how the grandmothers of Savannah cook or give me any information around that. So I had to meet someone that was going to introduce me to a guy who, you know, who introduced me to the oyster farmer, who introduced me to the shrimper, who introduced me to the grower. And then having conversations with those folks is how we kind of got, like, the foundational elements of what the gray was going to be. And that, I think, was really where I was going with that quote. I needed to be a part of the conversation, and I needed to be able to be a young person at the table to ask questions about why we were cooking food this way and why aren't we using these ingredients? Like, why aren't we using palm, you know, the palm dates that grows on the trees in everyone's backyard? Why don't we infuse vinegar with that? Or why aren't we using loquats? Or, like, different questions that they would. Not necessarily. They. They wouldn't use it, or they didn't have an answer to it, or they didn't need it. And it's like, well, is it okay if I were to do that? You know, like, I'm obsessed with, like, the pine trees that are in Harris Neck. On Harris Neck. And, like, I know people use that for medicine, but do they use the pine noodles for, you know, burning wood, or do they use the ash to coat venison? Like. Like, what are we actually eating? And if I were to invite you to a table with these things on the table. Would you eat it? And that was kind of like my test, right? Like, my uncle, he comes to the restaurant, and for the first year, he only just ate the oysters. He wouldn't eat anything else because he was afraid to try anything else on the menu. And I'm like, well, and now, you know, I order for him. He eats it, and he thinks. And I'm like, you what? Do. Do you think that grandma would eat it? Do you think that someone else would eat that? Are you proud of what you're eating? Like, does it resonate with you? And so I know that I think out of the box, and sometimes I can go way less, But I'm always trying to have it come from someplace, come from a real place of origin.

[Jon Becker]

Has he been. Has he been giving pretty good feedback, or is he pulling any punches or.

[Mashama Bailey]

No, I think he. I think he's pulling some punches. He'll say, it's good. Good. My mom says certain things are interesting. I'm like, oh, I know that my dad likes to use the word colorful.

[Megan Scott]

All the euphemisms at the table.

[Mashama Bailey]

Very colorful. It's very colorful. I'm like, it's a salad. Salads are colorful.

[Megan Scott]

That sounds like. When I talk to my grandma about food, like, she's a great cook, but very, you know, she's very Southern and very, like, set. She has her set repertoire of things that she makes. And so anytime I'm talking about something outside of that, she's like, well, that sounds interesting, Megan.

[Mashama Bailey]

My mom loves that. Interesting. I'm like, okay, I guess she won't try it.

[Sarah Marshall]

I did notice, though, on the show when anytime your parents were talking about you on the chef's table show, that they were so proud of you. And every time they talked about what you were doing and the food that you were cooking and the progression of things. I know originally you had started as a social worker and did other things, but when they talked about you now, the way that they talked about what you were doing, they're so proud of what you're doing. And I just noticed that and so just wanted to mention it because you brought up your parents, and I thought it was like. I think I cried when they were talking about you, which isn't uncommon for me.

[Mashama Bailey]

But, yeah, I'm a big crybaby, too. I've been watching a lot of A Little House on a Prairie late crying every episode. I'm like, this is some heavy stuff. I can't believe I watched this as.

[Jon Becker]

A kid, but I still have like a deeply buried memory of seeing there's like an episode where they are, I feel like they're trapped in the house because there are a bunch of wild, wild dogs I can't remember. I, I, yeah, that's haunted me ever.

[Megan Scott]

Since.

[Mashama Bailey]

Like the 70s was putting out some wild television. But my parents, I find I think they're relieved, you know, like I'm not sure if they knew what I was gonna do, you know, I'm not sure. I think I went through a lot of changes in self discovery before I got into cooking. And I think when I, you know, I thought when I was little I wanted to be a doctor and then I wanted to be, you know, then I, then I started studying to be a phys therapists and I found like that was really interesting and but then, but then I wasn't, I didn't have the study habits to get through the more complicated sciences like chemistry and physics. So like that didn't really work out. I was really always pretty good at math but when it came to certain things I just didn't have those habits. So I started like kind of following in their footsteps and they were like, oh, okay, cool. But I knew early on that that wasn't going to be the route that I took. And I've always been a creative person. I've always liked to write and take pictures and do like sort of things like that and work with my hands. And so I'm so fortunate that I'm so fortunate that I found my confidence in food. I found because I think if I wasn't confident at it, I would probably move on to something else else. But just being confident in not so much, you know, in the cooking that I do, it's like, all right, if I like it, I know other people are going to like it. And that's, and I'm not so bent on what everyone else thinks. I'm more worried and concerned about how I feel about things and, and I'm just happy that they kind of stuck with me because I think they were really nervous for a while but they, but they didn't show it. And I figured it out like right at that time. When you get worried about people right around 25 when you're like, okay, is this person going to be a bum or is this person actually going to be able to support themselves? So right around 25 I kind of dug my heels in and I think they kind of let up a little bit and they just let me kind of find my Way.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Let you cook?

[Mashama Bailey]

They let me cook. Let me cook.

[Megan Scott]

So each week we answer a caller question, and this week, coincidentally, we are talking about French food. I feel like this is. Is perfect. And this is actually from a friend of ours, Maggie. She says, I'm planning a trip to Brittany, Normandy, and Paris in the fall. Do you have recommendations? And I think, obviously they need to go to la, and. But other than that, where should they be going?

[Mashama Bailey]

I. So I haven't. So Brittany and Normandy I'm not really that familiar with, but I think that. I think that you're gonna definitely want to eat mussels up there, and you're going to want to eat cheese and creamy things. And then when in Paris, yes, please come to Larray. But also, I think they should go to a place called Brasserie Leap L, I, P, P. It's right across the street from Cafe Floor. So it's. It's kind of like. It's one of those places on Boulevard St. Germain that are like this big kind of institutional place. But the food is really, really Parisian, and the experience is really solid. Like, it's just one of those, like, quintessential places that have not changed. The waitstaff is fantastic. The food is pretty good, and it's like a really great Parisian brasserie experience. And I find myself there, at least when I'm there in Paris. I go definitely every time I'm in Paris, so I go a few times a year. And it's really kind of a great experience. So I think that that would be, like, high, high, high on the list to check out, because then you're also in that cool area where you're seeing these things that are nostalgically French, but you're kind of like, in this restaurant that is not always highlighted, but it's packed with people and regulars, so, you know, you're kind of in, like. And they're all French, so you know, you're not in the tourist trapped, so to speak. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I also loved it. I love the experience of dining in France because I feel like the servers are very. There are a lot more like, career servers in France. And it just feels like, I don't know. No one's rushing you. You don't. Like, you have to ask for the check. Yeah, it's very nice.

[Mashama Bailey]

That's very true. It's hard, though, as a. As a New Yorker and now I live in Savannah. Like, sometimes when you're in a rush and no one else is in a rush, you're like, okay, yeah, you're like, you all of a sudden become like, the jerk, right? You're, like, trying to get through. You want to leave quickly or you want to eat fast. They're like, what is. What is going on?

[Sarah Marshall]

You're like, I gotta go. They're like, what do you mean?

[Mashama Bailey]

Sit down. Yeah, Lunch isn't over for another hour.

[Jon Becker]

Have you actually had to kind of change your attitude towards, like, turning tables? Right?

[Mashama Bailey]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, yes. Yes, indeed. You know, our restaurant's not that big. It's only 40 seats. And so. And we're open all day. But when it comes to lunch, people want to eat really quickly, surprisingly enough, because everyone has an hour and we're right next to a publishing house, so. But dinner, no one wants to eat until 7. And they want to sit there all night. There's no rush for. There's no rush to go in anywhere.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Lots of wine pushing. Push the wine.

[Mashama Bailey]

Desserts.

[Megan Scott]

Yes. Any bakeries you would recommend or patisseries or anything like that?

[Mashama Bailey]

That's where I'm the weakest, quite frankly. I will eat any croissant on any corner in Paris. One. One place that. It's a chain of restaurants, but it's pretty good. It's called the French Bastards. They have this really great sort of chocolate torte that is really, really delicious. And then they also have. And this is something that they can have from. They have really great chocolate torte. They have a really great cookie. A chocolate chip cookie is really good. And then they have like, they're doing this thing with this carbon. So they have like this carbon bun that's really delicious, which is kind of like the new, new way to bake burger buns. And it's like super soft, and it has, like, sesame seeds on top. And they do that sometimes sweet and sometimes savory.

[Sarah Marshall]

Anytime I travel anywhere, the way that I kind of check out the city is to go to the farmers market, and I'll ask people what their favorite place is. And. And people do that to me too. At my farmer's market stand, they'll ask me, like, my favorite restaurant. So I was just going to suggest that to our caller. When I was in France, I wasn't in Paris, but I was in Toulouse. I. I loved that market stands, had olive stands because we don't have olive vendors here. And so I just filled my pockets with little baggies of olives. So definitely check those out, because we don't have that here. And I would just try all the different kinds of olives and just walk around snacking on olives. So I would suggest that for sure.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I think the farmer's markets and the stands are really where it's at. You can just buy cheese and bread and sliced smoked salmon or ham and just sit in the park somewhere. I don't know what time of year they're going. Or sit in your apartment and just have that for lunch. And that sometimes beats a lot of corner bistros and cafes. Spades.

[Megan Scott]

So much good cheese. I would. I can't. I. I ate a lot of cheese.

[Sarah Marshall]

I also went while I was pregnant, and so I just wanted sweets. And there they. They called cookies. Biscuits.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Sarah Marshall]

And so I just ate cookies like crazy, like, because it was like every. It didn't matter what bakery it was. Every bakery was so good because everything was really buttery. And I was like, I'll just try it.

[Mashama Bailey]

The ingredients are so delicious. But speaking of farmers markets, there is one by the Bastille, and it's on Sundays, and that one's really great. It's a huge market, and they have cooked food there. They sell clothes, they sell vegetables, they sell oysters. They have, like, this one stall that you can just stand there and eat shucked oysters and drink beer all morning. So, like, it's like one of the better markets, and that's the. The Bastille. The market at the Bastille on Sunday mornings.

[Megan Scott]

My source for. When I was on a trip in Paris, my source for restaurant recommendations was David. David Leibovitz. His website is really great. He has a whole list of places that he's, you know, reviewed essentially on his website and in his newsletter. And it also, if you, like, scroll to the bottom of his website, there's, like, more stuff. So there's like, markets you might want to go to or cookware stores. So he's a really good resource. He's the author. Author of several cookbooks. But my favorites are Room for Dessert and the Perfect Scoop. When I was in Paris, I was a student, but I decided I wanted to go to this Thai restaurant that he recommended on his blog. And so I was staying in a hostel with, like, six other people in my room, and I told them where I was going, and they were like, oh, we'll. We'll come along. And I had no idea. I didn't know, like, the geography of Paris at all. So I just am following this map and it's like, oh, this is, like, actually very far from where we're staying. It was, like, in a suburb, you know, kind of One of the outskirts, outer suburbs, but totally worth it. And everyone thought it was great. So I staked everything on that recommendation and it worked out. So I'm just saying.

[Mashama Bailey]

I know it's like a little unheard of to go outside of Paris, right? Even though it's like an extra 10 minutes, right?

[Megan Scott]

It's not that far, but no, it's not.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Sarah Marshall]

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[Megan Scott]

Our Joy Scouts recipe this week, since we're talking about French food, I picked one of my favorite favorite. I mean, this is going to sound silly because there's so much really great food to eat in France. But one of my favorite things that I picked up there that I still make a lot is called carrot and it's like a grated carrot salad and it's so easy. It's just like grated carrots, parsley or chives, a little olive oil, lemon juice and maybe some Dijon mustard. But they sell it at all of these little shops where they have like grabbing like prepared food. So like you can buy like a roast chicken but you can also buy all these salads and like the carrot trappe is one of those. And I didn't think I Liked raw carrots until I ate that salad. So it's still at the top of my list for, like, anytime I need to get rid of some carrots, I'm eating.

[Sarah Marshall]

Changed your way of life?

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah, it did.

[Megan Scott]

It changed my way of life.

[Mashama Bailey]

I loved earlier when you all were talking about the dish that you made and you did a celery root salad. And one of my favorite things to eat and pack, Paris celery root salad, and it has, like, Dijon mustard, and it's so simple. I think it's just, like, literally, like, creme fraiche and, like, Dijon mustard, and like, sometimes there's chives and maybe a little vinegar and salt, and it's one of my. One of my favorite things. And brasserie leaf has a really good one, so.

[Megan Scott]

Nice.

[Mashama Bailey]

One of my favorite, favorite things to eat is celery root, and I really only find myself eating it in France. Like, when I'm here and I see celery root, I'm like, okay. But when I'm in France, I'm like, it's like one of those things, like, I have to order it. It's so. It's so delicious.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. When we made that salad, we salted the celery root for, like, 20 minutes before mixing everything else in. And that kind of softens it up a little bit. But, yeah, it's got this nice, like, almost spice, spicy flavor to it.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I love.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like that's the first time we've. We've tried it raw. I feel like we're. I mean, the one thing that. The one, like, default thing that we always do is put it underneath the chicken. Chicken went, you know, for roasting chicken, because it just picks up all the juice and gets nice and nice and toasty. But, yeah, raw. Super good.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah. I feel like celery and celery root are, like, too underappreciated.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[Mashama Bailey]

Vegetables that bring it home.

[Megan Scott]

You know, we talk about our love of celery quite often on this.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah.

[Jon Becker]

This is a celery safe space for celery lovers.

[Mashama Bailey]

And apparently cabbage pizza.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yes.

[Mashama Bailey]

What kind of sauce was on the cabbage pizza? Was it a white sauce or was it a. A red sauce?

[Sarah Marshall]

No, I did a red sauce, but I mixed in a little bit of, like, a garam masala, like, curry sauce it in with it. It was so good. So it was kind of like a.

[Megan Scott]

A.

[Sarah Marshall]

Like a schwarma veggie pizza sort of. Yeah, it was delicious.

[Megan Scott]

Sarah has a way with flavors where I'm like, I don't know how you thought of those things together, but it really works.

[Sarah Marshall]

I just try anything.

[Megan Scott]

That's how I do it. I just.

[Sarah Marshall]

I just give it a go.

[Megan Scott]

If you have a cooking question or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We would love to hear from you, Sarah. Can you please read the next caller question? Question?

[Sarah Marshall]

Yes. I haven't entertained much, and I want to bring my friends and new neighbors together, but need ideas for a simple gathering. Every time I start, I get overwhelmed.

[Megan Scott]

Very relatable. We can help with that. Having experience or at least.

[Jon Becker]

At least commiserate.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, commiserate for sure.

[Jon Becker]

Oh, did you give the page number for the.

[Megan Scott]

The page number for the carrot salad is 125.

[Jon Becker]

And if you. You would like to try our country Captain Recipe instead, which is what I was kind of voting for before this episode was recording, that's on page four. 23.

[Megan Scott]

You know what? Cook whatever you want. Tell us about it. We'd love to hear about it no matter what. What's everybody cooking this week? What are you excited about?

[Sarah Marshall]

We. I don't know if we've talked about plans of what we are going to make. Dirk and I have a couple of cookbooks because I returned old books to the library and I have new ones. We've also been watching a lot of this show, Korean Cooking wars, and so Culinary Class wars. And so we've been really craving Korean food. So I'm sure we're going to cook some Korean food this week. We have been cooking some, and then, yeah, I'm sticking with my veggies. All veggies, all the time.

[Megan Scott]

What about you, man?

[Mashama Bailey]

So I don't have a plan, but I bought a spaghetti squash, and I never really cook a spaghetti squash because I'm always a little disappointed that it doesn't taste like spaghetti.

[Jon Becker]

Same, same.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, that's real.

[Mashama Bailey]

So I'm back on that horse again. I'm gonna try. And I'm wondering, like, I am wondering, like, how do I want to prepare it? Do I want to do. Do I want to cook it? I want to steam it in the oven and get it sort of like, shreddable. But then I'm like, do I want to toast some peanuts and make like, a little brown butter peanut sauce with it, and maybe I can add a little fish sauce to that. And then sort of like I'm in this kind of like, Asian land with ginger. I have ginger, peanuts, fish sauce, and then I'm wondering if I just want to make. I have some Italian sausages, and I'm wondering if I want to do, like, a sort of like, do Italian sausage with garlic and then kind of fold the spaghetti squash into that so it almost eats, like, Italian sausage and pasta. Yeah, I think that's about as far as I got, but I have to cook it. So I'm just trying to figure out what I'm going to do with it. And then I'm going to make a beet salad. And I'm debating on if I should just do a beaten carrot salad, and maybe I'll try the carrot salad in the joy of cooking and add some shredded beets to it.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, nice. That would be beautiful.

[Mashama Bailey]

I think that's about the extent of it. I actually. I'm working from home this week, and I'll pop in the restaurant at night just to kind of like, keep everybody on their toes a little bit and give them feedback. But, you know, I have a little bit of work to do at home before I head back to France in the next three weeks. So I figured, like, this is a nice, cold, slow week, so I'll take. Take advantage of it.

[Megan Scott]

I was reminiscing the other day about, like, right before, I think lockdown was. This was in 2020, when lockdown was happening. We went to the grocery store to stock up on some stuff, and we were kind of late to the game, and the only thing left in the produce department was spaghetti squash. Like, it was the one thing that nobody wanted.

[Jon Becker]

A lot of people maybe have that little. That traumatic experience where, you know, where.

[Megan Scott]

It'S not like pasta.

[Jon Becker]

This isn't spaghetti.

[Megan Scott]

Ye. A little disappointed.

[Mashama Bailey]

I just feel like you have to put so much on it. It's just no longer healthy for you. Like, it's just like, you know, you get, like, you have to dress it and you're just like, I could have just eaten. Like, I should just butter. Like, it doesn't. It just takes a lot.

[Jon Becker]

I feel like that fish sauce and peanut idea that you were going with, that sounds like, you know, could really rehabilitate spaghetti squash, at least for me.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I agree.

[Sarah Marshall]

Sounds good.

[Mashama Bailey]

We have some Thai basil, actually. So I have a basil. I have some peanuts. I have fish sauce. I figured, like, you know, I have the things. So I'm wondering, like, maybe that might be. I might go there and then I still have a little bone broth, too, so I might do, like, bone broth with, like, the spaghetti squash salady thingy. I don't know. I like you said, I kind of. Sometimes I just make it up and.

[Sarah Marshall]

I'm like, I just. I think that's a good way to do it.

[Mashama Bailey]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

There is a restaurant here called, called Ox, and they're. It's like a Argentine style steakhouse. And they have one of those Jasper. It's a Jasper, right? Like the.

[Jon Becker]

No, no.

[Megan Scott]

I'm confusing names, but they have a really cool, like, live fire cooking setup and one of those really awesome. I don't know what they're called, but you can raise and lower the little.

[Jon Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Cooking grate closer to the fire. But they do a spaghetti squash. Squash dish. And it's the one place I've had spaghetti squash that I was like, this is delicious. But they. They cook it over the, you know, the coals, so it's kind of charred. And then I think they just put, like, good olive oil and then a mountain of really finely grated parmesan on it. And so it's very simple, but it is excellent.

[Mashama Bailey]

Wow. This was really. This is a good place to have this conversation. So, like, maybe I like that idea a lot because I like simple. I feel like if I go to Thai route, I might regret it. But I like. But I like the. I like the cheese route. And maybe if I just kind of like crank my oven really hot, put them in. I have this pizza stone. I can put them face down on the pizza stone. Get it, like, super seared. I almost thought about doing it whole while you were talking. And then you have, like, the seeds that you have to contend with. So you need to kind of cut it out in half and clean up the seeds, but, like, lightly season it and just kind of cook it really hot and really fast. I think you are caramelizing it in a way that's adding good flavor and just like a light dressing of butter and cheese. I mean, you can't go wrong with that. All right, well, I'll keep you guys posted. I'll write in what, you know, like, what I did, because I'll cook it tonight.

[Megan Scott]

And Mashama, before we wrap, where can listeners follow you?

[Mashama Bailey]

They can actually follow me on my Instagram, Mashama Bailey. And also, I mean, I think that's all you say, right? Mashama Bailey at Instagram?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, they'll find you. We'll put it in the show notes. It'll be fine.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, we'll link it.

[Mashama Bailey]

And then also, you know, they can also follow me on the Laravel web Instagram and follow me on the gray. And then soon we're having talks about like websites and all that kind of stuff. So stay tuned. There'll be a lot coming up with me for 2026.

[Megan Scott]

Very exciting.

[Mashama Bailey]

Awesome. Yeah, very exciting.

[Megan Scott]

Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking Podcast before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram at the Joy of Cooking. Stay tuned for next week where we'll talk about entertaining. And don't forget to make this week's recipe carote rapees. That's grated French grated carrot salad on page 125. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Sarah Marshall]

And we could not do this without our fantastic team at Joy of Creation Production House Mouse. Thanks to today's producer, Dirk Marshall and Haley Bowers, our audio engineer. If you love the stories we bring you each week, please consider supporting us on Patreon. As an independent media company, your support is absolutely essential. It allows us to continue creating high quality professional episodes that amplify the voices of women, small business owners, writers, artists and creatives and keep their stories free from commercial pressure. By becoming a Patreon member, you're not just supporting us, you're investing in the future of independent media. Please visit Patreon.com the Joy of Creation Production House to join our community today. Thank you for listening and supporting our podcast Dreams.