Megan Scott (1:58)

But the disaster happened when the. We were making the Caesar dressing in the Vitamix. I think that sometimes a Vitamix just is too. It runs too high and then it break. The sauce breaks. Oh. So we had to start over with the dressing and it just felt demoralizing. Like, what is happening?

Shannon Larson (2:16)

I was like, what did you do? Did you shred the chicken wrong?

Megan Scott (2:19)

Drop the chicken on the floor?

Jon Becker (2:21)

The cats got to the chicken.

Megan Scott (2:23)

Yeah, that's a likely scenario.

Jon Becker (2:25)

Yeah. Too likely.

Megan Scott (2:29)

Shannon, what have you been up to over break? This is your first episode back since we've been on break.

Shannon Larson (2:34)

I know. It feels like it's been a really long time. I was preparing today and I was like, oh, my gosh. I need to, like, put my brain back in school mode a little bit.

Megan Scott (2:42)

You know, when you're going back to.

Shannon Larson (2:43)

School, no, we've been doing a lot of cooking, a lot of gardening, some camping, which was really nice getting, you know, that in while it's still nice weather out here in Portland. We have so many tomatoes coming in, which is the best problem ever to have. But right now it's 100 degrees outside almost in. In Portland, and, like, going out to pick tomatoes is disgusting.

Megan Scott (3:03)

It's gross.

Shannon Larson (3:04)

It's so gross. I really don't like heat.

Megan Scott (3:06)

No, I don't either.

Jon Becker (3:07)

If our garden was produced actually producing tomatoes, I would be so excited to. I would be out there.

Shannon Larson (3:12)

Oh, I should have brought you some. I can drop you off tomorrow.

Jon Becker (3:15)

It's been an off year in our garden.

Megan Scott (3:16)

Yeah. I don't know what's going on, but it's like a weird year for tomatoes. I also, this is embarrassing, but I'm going to admit it anyway in the spirit of transparency. Yeah. I didn't realize that you really need to fertilize tomatoes. I thought you could just grow them and as long as you, like, amend your soil and are watering them regularly enough. No, you got to fertilize them.

Shannon Larson (3:35)

Oh, I didn't fertilize.

Megan Scott (3:36)

You don't fertilize?

Sponsor/Ad Voice (3:37)

No.

Megan Scott (3:37)

What is going on?

Shannon Larson (3:39)

I don't know. There's a farm that we got our starts from this year that I'll make sure.

Megan Scott (3:42)

Oh, yeah, let me know.

Shannon Larson (3:43)

I'll let you know. And they've been really great.

Megan Scott (3:44)

Okay. I also noticed you're growing a lot of cherry tomatoes, which I think is part of my problem. I keep trying to grow the big juicy, and they just don't ever work out.

Shannon Larson (3:54)

I just go to the professionals for those, honestly. And then having, like a ton of cherry tomatoes is nice because whatever's left over, I just throw in a bag and put it in the deep freezer, and then I can use them all year long.

Megan Scott (4:03)

That's smart. I'm just going to do. I'm just going to do what you do next year.

Shannon Larson (4:07)

It's a good problem to have. I. I feel like I'm complaining, but I'm like, this is the best problem to have. We've been eating a lot of tomatoes.

Megan Scott (4:13)

What's your favorite? Do you have a favorite way you've been eating them so far?

Shannon Larson (4:16)

I mean, it sounds very like, oh, I'm such a millennial, but I like avocado toast with tomatoes on it. I. It's good.

Megan Scott (4:23)

It's delicious.

Shannon Larson (4:23)

I can have it for dinner, Breakfast, Lunch. I don't care. I just think it's really delicious.

Megan Scott (4:27)

And you, you own your home? Yes. Shannon. Yes. You were able to buy a home even though you eat avocado. Wow.

Shannon Larson (4:33)

I don't buy coffee out very often. What have you guys been cooking?

Megan Scott (4:40)

We made. So this past week we made pizza one night and we did. They were both really good. They were both inspired by Lovely's 50 50, which is this local pizza place in Portland. That's so good. One of the pizzas had corn and peaches and Taleggio on it. So good. That's such a great combination that I don't think I would have thought of. But yeah, the peaches were a little bit. I roasted them briefly just to kind of get some of the moisture off. But the peaches are so good this year.

Shannon Larson (5:10)

They're really good.

Megan Scott (5:11)

Yeah. Fantastic.

Jon Becker (5:13)

Yeah. And then the other one, it's potatoes two different ways. So kind of a creamier, more broken down, you know, way and a roasty, kind of chunkier way with kale. And I think that Sarah at Lovely's does a parsley pesto. But yeah, we just did plain old pesto.

Megan Scott (5:30)

Plain, plain basil. Old basil pesto.

Shannon Larson (5:33)

I feel like potatoes on pizza are like an unsung hero. It's so good.

Megan Scott (5:37)

Carb on carb. We talked about this last week. You weren't here, but we talked about carb on carb on carb. Almost always a good idea. And then we also made our Joy Scouts recipe of the week, which was the skillet chocolate chip cookie. I made that last night and I have it here on the table for snacking. It's a super fun recipe. I kind of forgot how simple it is. It's just chocolate chip cookies. Then you press it into a skillet and bake it. And it's great.

Jon Becker (6:04)

It's really good. If you serve it warm with a little glass of milk or a shot glass or whatever just to pour over and share at the table while it's still really hot in the skillet. But then afterwards, it's kind of like, you know, Toll House bar territory, you know, it's good.

Shannon Larson (6:19)

It's like a cookie cake.

Megan Scott (6:20)

Yeah, exactly. We didn't decorate it with frosting or anything, but I used to love those. Those are awesome. So that recipe was on page 770. If you are interested. You should make it and let us know how you like it. Share with us on Instagram hejoyofcooking. We would love to see your handiwork. It's a very fun, very fun recipe to make especially for, like, if you have some people over for dinner. It's super easy. You can make the batter or the dough ahead of time and put it in the skillet and then just pop it in the oven so it's hot when everyone's ready to eat it. This week, we would like to welcome Melissa Nifik to the table. Melissa is a freelance food editor and recipe developer. Melissa, welcome.

Melissa Niffick (6:58)

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Megan Scott (7:00)

What have you been cooking this week?

Melissa Niffick (7:02)

Oh, gosh, this week has been a little all over the place. I've been testing a cookbook for a while, and I can talk about it because the writer has been posting about it and whatnot. So it's not a secret. Her name is Jessica Nabongo, and she is a travel writer. Writer. And so she has a book that's already out about her travels around the world. She is the first black woman to travel to every country in the world.

Megan Scott (7:33)

Whoa.

Melissa Niffick (7:33)

She's so amazing. Always on the road or in the air, really. So National Geographic asked her to write a second book, which is a cookbook, and she fully admitted that while she eats everywhere in the world, she doesn't cook all that often for herself. So that's where I came in. I'm developing some of the recipes there. I'm testing most of them, and then she has another person that's developing a bunch. So I've been testing. Long story short, I've been testing a lot of her recipes. And so it's been a fun global taste tour.

Megan Scott (8:10)

That sounds amazing. Is it a book about a recipe from every country or how is that. How is it organized?

Melissa Niffick (8:16)

Yeah. So there is a recipe from every country, which is quite an undertaking. There's nothing out there, to our knowledge, that is quite like, quite like that. So it has been an ongoing project. But a lot of the recipes are her taste memories from the different places. So the dish isn't like, okay, this is the national dish of so and so. It's like, okay, this is what I ate in this country at this grandma's house. And I love this recipe, and I'm going to try to get it from her. So there's a lot of that or recreating some of those experiences.

Megan Scott (8:50)

Was there one that stood out to you that you've tested recently that you really loved?

Melissa Niffick (8:55)

Oh, gosh, there's so many good ones. There was an amazing dish from Georgia. There was, oh, my gosh, there's this coconut dish with plantains, and it's so simple, but you basically, like, simmer the plantains in coconut milk. There's a few other ingredients, and it's so simple, but it makes this, like, thick syrup, and you drizzle it over the warm plantains at the end, and then, like, you're left with all this leftover syrup. So we were playing around with it and making, like, different cocktails, which was fun. There's so many good dishes. Truly, it's. You know, I thought I knew so much about food, and I'm learning so much. I mean, I'm glad that we are able to access ingredients online so quickly, because there's definitely a lot of spices out there I wasn't aware of.

Megan Scott (9:51)

Yeah, that's the fun thing about food, too, is there's always new stuff. I'm always learning new stuff. I feel like it's just endless, which is fun and it's daunting, but also great.

Jon Becker (10:02)

Do you remember the Georgian dish that you recently tested?

Melissa Niffick (10:06)

So I can't tell you the Georgian translation that I can't remember it, but it was this amazing marinated slash, like, pickled green tomato salad.

Jon Becker (10:17)

Okay.

Melissa Niffick (10:18)

And so walnuts are a huge part of Georgian cuisine. Cuisine, and. And so is garlic. And obviously, like, tons of fresh, fresh herbs. And so these green tomatoes, I've always fried them. And these were marinated in this, like, super acidic, garlicky dressing. And they're pressed to release some of the juice. Juices, and then the next day, they're tossed in this creamy walnut sauce. My God, there's so. It's so.

Jon Becker (10:51)

Sounds really good.

Megan Scott (10:52)

Yeah, that sounds really perfect for this time of year. Just like end of summer when you have those green tomatoes that aren't going to ripen. That. That does sound delicious. When does this book come out?

Melissa Niffick (11:02)

So her book is the Timeline. She doesn't have an official date yet because it's still in process, but it's looking like either end of 2026 or early 2027, I think, so a bit of time. But, yeah, it's. It's been a. It's been a journey.

Megan Scott (11:21)

That's really exciting. You also have a cookbook that is coming out soon. Yes, yes.

Melissa Niffick (11:27)

Early next year, actually, February 3rd, which felt like so, you know, far down the road, but I can't believe it's around the corner at this point. And it's also with National Geographic. It's the National Parks Cookbook. And I'm co authoring that with a really good pal of mine, Nina elder. And it's 100 recipes inspired by all 63 national parks. And I think that people will be surprised that, you know, you talk about a national parks cookbook and you Think, okay, this book is going to be like another book about camping food or, you know, not that there's anything wrong with camping food and surely a lot that can be improved. But this book is historical, it's cumulative. It covers so many, obviously different parts of the US So many different climates and people. And I'm so excited for, for it to come out and for everyone to, to cook through it.

Jon Becker (12:33)

Now, the sample you sent looks, looks wonderful. I saw that, like one of the recipes that was included in that sample feel like it was from somebody who goes hiking at a particular park quite a bit. I think it was like the adventure cookies. And yeah, I was just curious, like, how did you find this person to contribute the recipe or did you guys travel around or. Yeah, how did that work?

Melissa Niffick (12:57)

Yeah, so that particular recipe. So let me go back by saying that about half the recipes are contributed in the book and then the other half are newly developed and inspired by the parks themselves, the people, maybe a restaurant in the area. This, the adventure cookie recipe. She worked with Nina at some point and now lives near that national park. And so she was a perfect person to reach out to because she hikes that park. And yeah, she was kind enough to offer up a recipe which was really fun. She also has a recipe in there for a gluten free bread made out of lots of seeds and nuts. Yeah, that's how, that's how we came across that one for those two.

Megan Scott (13:43)

What made you want to write a national parks cookbook? Was this something National Geographic came to you with or. It was, yeah.

Melissa Niffick (13:51)

Yeah. Well, they came to Nina first and Nina brought me onto the project soon after she. Pretty soon after she had started it. I think we realized what a huge undertaking it was. 100 recipes is no joke. I say that. And then I was just talking about Jessica's book that has like double that.

Megan Scott (14:11)

Right.

Melissa Niffick (14:12)

But. But you know, there's a lot of research that goes into it and a lot of ideation and so we became a team and it was so great to be able to, to work with her on that because she and I have known each other for 15 years and I couldn't think of a better partner to, to make this book with.

Jon Becker (14:32)

I can vouch for having a partner for dividing labor accountability and, you know, maybe a little bit of commiseration as well.

Megan Scott (14:41)

Yeah, a little.

Melissa Niffick (14:43)

Yes, there's always that.

Shannon Larson (14:46)

I liked the almost there poutine from the North Cascades. I thought that was a charming one.

Melissa Niffick (14:53)

Yeah, that was, that's fun. That was another contributed recipe and the Story behind it, if you looked at. It was pretty fun. Almost to Canada. So close. There's a lot of good ones in there. And again, we're so lucky to have such amazing contributors. But it was also fun to come up with some of these ideas and sort of diversify the book even more with recipes. So it was good.

Shannon Larson (15:21)

It was also fun to look through because I was looking at the parks that I've gone to and seeing what recipes were related to them. So obviously, we live in Oregon, so Crater Lake is a big one, and I'm like, ooh, Marionberry grilled cheese.

Megan Scott (15:32)

Yeah, that sounds great.

Melissa Niffick (15:36)

Yeah, that was. That. That was a Melissa creation. The best part about that recipe, I think, is that it's so easy.

Shannon Larson (15:45)

Yeah.

Melissa Niffick (15:45)

And you could certainly replace it with other jam.

Shannon Larson (15:49)

Right.

Melissa Niffick (15:49)

Whatever region you're from.

Shannon Larson (15:52)

But you can make that camping. You could totally make that.

Megan Scott (15:54)

Yeah, you could. That would be a great camping recipe.

Melissa Niffick (15:58)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that would be. It would be great. But. Yeah. And it's so easy.

Megan Scott (16:02)

Yeah.

Melissa Niffick (16:03)

Which is. Which is great. I think we tried to make sure that the recipes, while they're regional, we wanted to make sure that they're adaptable for people, too, because, like, for example, one of the recipes I developed, one of my favorites was Katmai in Alaska. And it's pretty isolated. You can only get to Katmai by boat or plane. And so one of the ingredients that they're known for, spruce tips, which also grow and I'm sure nearby you guys and kind of in Colorado and different parts of the U.S. but not everybody that lives in the U.S. can get spruce tips. So it's like, all right, let's. It was a spruce tip cured salmon, so offered up dill as a swap if people wanted to try it. And while it's not the same flavor profile, it'll. It'll get them there.

Shannon Larson (16:53)

Oh, yeah.

Megan Scott (16:53)

It can still be delicious.

Melissa Niffick (16:55)

Yeah.

Megan Scott (16:56)

Have you visited a lot of national parks yourself?

Melissa Niffick (16:58)

A good chunk. Sadly, we did not get to go to all of them. That's, like, the first question that everyone asked. Did you get to travel to all of these?

Megan Scott (17:05)

And that would be a lot. That. I mean, I don't know what your book budget was like, but that would stretch it, I think.

Jon Becker (17:13)

I mean, it's. It is business travel. You know, you get a. Yeah, right.

Melissa Niffick (17:18)

No, but I feel like I was able to go to a chunk before I started this project. And we have two kids. My husband and I have two kids, and we hope to take them to some. Some other ones, and Return to some that we've been to and just start checking off the list.

Shannon Larson (17:34)

Do you have a favorite?

Melissa Niffick (17:35)

Do I have a favorite? Oh, gosh.

Shannon Larson (17:38)

I know it's tough. That's a tough question.

Melissa Niffick (17:40)

It is so tough. I mean, I can tell you the one that's closest to my heart, which will be maybe a little unexpected because I think a lot of people don't realize that Ohio has a national park. But Cuyahoga Valley national park is near Cleveland. That's where my family's from. So that's a park that I feel real connection with. And they have working farms within. It might be the only national park. I don't want to say that. But it's. If not, it's one of the few national parks that actually has farms on within park property. And so the recipes that were from chose two recipes from Cuyahoga Valley, and they were from. From farms and farmers within the park, which is fun.

Jon Becker (18:30)

That does sound really unusual. I've certainly never seen that at a national park. It's crazy.

Melissa Niffick (18:36)

Yeah.

Megan Scott (18:36)

What were the two recipes from that park?

Melissa Niffick (18:38)

So one was a simple roasted chicken. It's a Trapp family farm is one of. It's one of the farms in the park. And they raise. They raise chickens. And they're tiny, little, beautiful pasture raised chickens. So, like, why not offer a recipe that just is so simple? Salt and pepper. The chicken is spatchcocked and just crisp to perfection. So it felt like the right move there. And then to a company that was using the farm, they also grow carrots. These like heirloom carrots that are long and thin and beautiful leafy, leafy greens. And so roasting those, they're cooked twice with cracked coriander. So you boil them and then you roast them and toss them in the coriander. And it's really simple. But it's so perfect with the chicken.

Megan Scott (19:41)

I know. So ready. I know it's 100 degrees here today, and I'm like, this is not what I signed up for.

Melissa Niffick (19:49)

Yeah, here. Here too.

Megan Scott (19:53)

Let's see. I had a bunch of questions. More summer cooking related, actually. Are you a more excited about summer fruits or summer vegetables? Not. This is a false choice. Like we don't have to choose. But I'm curious.

Melissa Niffick (20:08)

Yeah, well, it's so funny because I'm usually I tend to go more savory than sweet, just in general, but summer fruit is like nothing else. And I can't get enough stone fruit. I love peaches. I love nectarines. I live in New Jersey, and the peaches and nectarines this year, like, off the chart. They're so good and you don't have to do anything to make them. You know, obviously just munch on them. But I also like to slice them up and toss them into salads and go the more savory route there. Or you were talking about pizza earlier. Pizza with corn and. Oh, sounds so good. So, yeah.

Megan Scott (20:52)

Fruit.

Melissa Niffick (20:53)

Fruit. All the berries. I have some raspberry bushes and pie bush blueberries at our home and they. It's so hot this summer. It's. Unfortunately, my garden's not doing great either. But those are always something to look forward to.

Megan Scott (21:14)

What cookbooks have you been most inspired by lately, other than the ones you are working on?

Melissa Niffick (21:19)

Oh, there's always. There are always so many out there that. And I feel like I'm always leafing through the new ones. I. We talked about Georgian food earlier, and while it's not new, I've really been into Georgian cooking lately. I would say actually not even lately. Like, probably for several years now. My husband's family grew up eating a lot of Georgian food, and so I didn't know a lot about it until we met, and I instantly became obsessed with it. And so I have a whole range of Georgian cookbooks. There's one called Taste of Georgia that's really great. And there's. It's a whole. It's a super thick book. A lot of history in there. There's a lot about the winemaking, which is pretty unique to Georgia, too. Who knew this podcast was going to. Today was going to talk so much about Georgian cuisine. But yeah, I would say, like, those are the books that I've been looking at the most. Just they inspire me. And yeah, I think that's what. That's what I've been up to on that end.

Shannon Larson (22:26)

Do you and your family have any go to, like, I don't know what to cook right now. We're just going to throw this on the table or throw this together kind of recipes that you use in your house.

Melissa Niffick (22:35)

I'm a sort of clean fridge. Let's make whatever we have going on. Yeah. Sort of cook. And I know that a lot of that comes from, you know, just what I do. Right. Constantly testing recipes, developing recipes. So we end up with a lot of odds and ends in our fridge and freezer. So it becomes that. And that transforms its way into a lot of pastas.

Shannon Larson (23:03)

Pastas.

Melissa Niffick (23:03)

Because it's quick and also delicious. Yeah. And this time of year, a lot of salads that way, you know, just like I Think anything can become a salad. It's a state of if you try hard enough. So there's a lot of that. And luckily my, my kids, they're young, but they, they will try anything, so they will eat salads.

Shannon Larson (23:30)

That's awesome.

Melissa Niffick (23:31)

Which makes me happy because that's what I want to eat, especially after cooking, like, heavy food. You know, if you're testing heavy food right now, it's a lot of holiday food. You know, holiday food testing for, you know, on the print side of things.

Megan Scott (23:46)

Really, it's wild to think about, but you're right. It's time. It's time in the print world to think about all of that.

Melissa Niffick (23:51)

Yeah. Thanksgiving.

Shannon Larson (23:53)

Oh my gosh.

Melissa Niffick (23:53)

You're making like holiday time mashed potatoes.

Shannon Larson (23:55)

In the 100 degree weather. That sounds so like it.

Melissa Niffick (24:01)

Stick to your ribs.

Jon Becker (24:02)

Hard to make a salad out of mashed potatoes.

Melissa Niffick (24:05)

Yeah, yeah. That. That just ends up either getting donated to my neighbors or getting frozen.

Megan Scott (24:11)

Yeah.

Melissa Niffick (24:12)

I'm a big fan of not like wasting. You know, there's a lot of food that ends up on our, you know, in our home. And I do my best to distribute the love and also remember that saving it for later is your best gift.

Megan Scott (24:26)

Yeah. Testing recipes for a cookbook can be wild. I remember we basically broke the book up Joy of Cooking up into chapters and would do, you know, one chapter at a time, which makes sense. But about halfway through the meat chapter, I was like, I don't think I can do this anymore. I can't eat any more meat.

Jon Becker (24:44)

We're going to have to. Yeah, we're going to have to break that one up.

Megan Scott (24:47)

Yeah. I think next time we've learned. Yeah.

Melissa Niffick (24:51)

I tested a meat cookbook, all meat cookbook, and it was not just like there wasn't even a combination of like, real light meals in there. It was a barbecue meat.

Megan Scott (25:04)

I mean, delicious, but also. Woof.

Melissa Niffick (25:07)

So delicious. But I have a big green egg. And so every morning, you know, I have to get up at crack of dawn. It wasn't every morning, but, you know, for a chunk of time, get up and smoke the meat and heavy food and all the sides that come with barbecue. Yeah. It's no joke.

Jon Becker (25:30)

So just for the sake of, I guess being consistent with testing barbecue recipes that cook for so long. And since you were using a green egg, were you using like one of those thermostat situations with the little fan to keep the temperature nice and regulated? I guess green eggs are really good at holding temperatures.

Melissa Niffick (25:47)

Yeah. No, with the green egg, I was. I learned how to Use that thing inside and out. It's just with that book, because I was cooking so often on it, it is so amazing at temperature regulation. And I was afraid that, you know, it was going to take a long time to heat up and that I was going to have to keep checking out because I've had other smokers in the past where they, like, don't keep their temperature and you go out there a little too late and the fire's out or. Or your, you know, ribs are on fire. One of the two. And so the green egg is so wonderful at regulating. And here in New Jersey, you know, we have 100 degrees today. And then the winter, your green egg is surrounded by snow. So because of the temperature, the way it retains heat, rather, you can cook in any climate. And it's pretty amazing. And I'm not a spokesperson for big green egg or anything. I just really think it's an amazing grill.

Jon Becker (26:52)

Yeah. We had access to one for a while, and I. I do miss it. We didn't want to move it across the country. It's kind of a chore. And plus, I think it was. It was getting a little long in the tooth. There might have been a crack in there.

Megan Scott (27:04)

I do remember the time that you. Was it you burned your eyebrows off or you burnt.

Jon Becker (27:09)

Like we were trying to. We were trying to do pizza on a green egg. And so, of course, you know, oh, you have to get it as hot as you can. And boy. Yeah. All I gotta say. Yeah. All I gotta say is, is that if the temperature gauge is so far that it's like past the top reading, you want to use a pair of long tongs when you open.

Megan Scott (27:31)

Oh, my God, the lid.

Jon Becker (27:32)

Otherwise you might maybe just ignite most of your arm hair and, you know, luckily, no big consequences there.

Megan Scott (27:42)

Lesson learned. Important lesson learned.

Melissa Niffick (27:44)

Yeah.

Jon Becker (27:44)

Yeah.

Melissa Niffick (27:45)

Well, there's this thing too, that I didn't realize, and in the fine print or on a YouTube video or whatever you try to do to research your. Your grill before you start, you have to burp the grill, which I never heard of that before. And I was like, wait, what does this even mean? And then I understood what. Why you have to. Because if you just open it up. Whoosh.

Jon Becker (28:08)

Yeah.

Megan Scott (28:09)

Rush of like when you open.

Jon Becker (28:11)

That's exactly what happened.

Megan Scott (28:12)

I do that when I'm roasting.

Jon Becker (28:13)

It burped all on its own.

Megan Scott (28:15)

Like if I'm roasting vegetables in the oven at a really high temperature and then I kind of forget how hot it is and I just open it and my face is right over the oven. It's a rude awakening. Yeah, it is.

Jon Becker (28:26)

Yeah. My glasses will get all steamy.

Melissa Niffick (28:28)

Same.

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Megan Scott (29:52)

Before we move into answering our listener question of the week, I have one question that we ask all of our guests, which is, what is your relationship with the joy of Cooking?

Melissa Niffick (30:01)

Oh, so the Joy of Cooking goes back to. I remember it from, you know, my childhood because my mom always had a copy on the shelf, which I don't know if I feel like. I remember her telling me that she got it as a wedding gift back in the day, but it always was front and center and I just remember the COVID and I know that the pages were worn. You know, recipes from that were part of her repertoire. So now I have a copy. I don't have hers. And yeah, it also is front and center and I, it's, it's really a special book and I, I keep it. I have two bookcases for cookbooks and one of the bookcases that I use the most is right in my family room and which is like directly across from our kitchen. So when people come over, they're always like, that's immediately where they go and they look at what's on there, the shelf, and they'll often say, oh, I have that book. So it's kind of fun, you know, how it just like crosses all generations and cooking skills.

Megan Scott (31:17)

And I do love that so many people got it as a wedding gift, especially like mid season, mid century, to like into the 70s and early 80s. So much so that there was a bridal edition of the book that had its own special little box. Very cute. I think we have like one copy of that or your dad has it. Maybe it's.

Jon Becker (31:37)

Yeah, Ethan has a copy and it is deep within a storage area.

Shannon Larson (31:41)

Yeah.

Megan Scott (31:41)

Oh. But I also feel like getting a book like that on your wedding day is a little bit of a threat.

Shannon Larson (31:49)

It's like, here you go.

Melissa Niffick (31:52)

Like, here's your cookbook.

Shannon Larson (31:53)

Here's your textbook.

Megan Scott (31:56)

Yeah, here's the textbook for the rest of your life. Enjoy. Get to work. But I, I have. We have given it as a, as a wedding gift, but I, you know, it hits different.

Melissa Niffick (32:07)

Because I was going to say it's a little different.

Jon Becker (32:09)

Yeah, a little bit.

Melissa Niffick (32:11)

A little bit.

Megan Scott (32:11)

Each week we answer a listener question, and this week we are going to talk about how to get into food.

Melissa Niffick (32:17)

Writing for the Joy of Cooking. Hi, my name is MacKenzie, and I was wondering if you can give us some more tips on writing. So writing tips, recipe writing tips, food writing tips, also just writing tips in general. That would be a great subject for a podcast. Thank you so much. Bye. Oh, I'm calling from Stuttgart, Germany.

Megan Scott (32:40)

Writing tips. So I will come at it a little from the editorial perspective and John will talk about more writing, writing, something I'm not sure if you're interested in, like you want to make it a career or you just want to dabble. But assuming you want your work to be published somewhere, my advice would be create a writing portfolio of your strongest work. And then in order to get published, you'll want to pitch as much as possible without spamming. Sometimes as an editor, you get like 20 pitches from one person and it's just like, I can't, I, I can't process all this. It's too much. Yeah, but, you know, pitch a lot. It will take a lot of pitching and a lot of them will be rejected. And that's normal. And I would say your pitches should depend a lot on where you want to be published. Kind of do a deep dive on whatever it is, a website or a magazine and see what kinds of stories they are publishing and, you know, see if you can find any patterns. Not all publications may align with what you want to do. So try to find the ones that you like the most and that you feel like suits your interest and your style the best. And a lot of places will have pitch guides on their website, too, that you can reference and definitely adhere to that if they have a guide. And then I would just say, know your areas of interest and expertise. A lot of editors will want you to kind of have a little bit of a beat, you know, if you are really into, like, if you're from the south, you grew up in the south, and you love writing about Southern food or ingredients or recipes, that's a really good beat to have. Or like, maybe you're from an Italian American family. Like, that's a very particular angle that you can take. Or you want to write about cocktails. So kind of know what areas of expertise you already have and what you're most interested in, because the writing is usually better when it's something you're super interested in. And then as far as pitching goes, follow up if you don't hear back. Like, editors get a lot of pitches, so they may not respond to all of them. But at least when I was getting pitches, if somebody reached out to me and asked me, you know, hey, I sent this pitch. What happened to it? I would respond and, you know, say, oh, we didn't pick it up for this reason, or, you know, maybe, you know, what kind of what we're looking for right now is more of this other thing. And so I think a lot of editors will give you more guidance if you just reach out and, like, say, hey, I'm really interested. I just want to know, can. Do you have any feedback for me about my pitch and what I can do better? I think a lot of people will respond well to that. John, what do you think?

Jon Becker (35:07)

I wrote down some things about I'm a temperamental writer, I suppose, is the we all are.

Shannon Larson (35:12)

I mean, you're pretending you didn't write.

Megan Scott (35:14)

A cookbook right now.

Jon Becker (35:14)

Well, I don't know. I mean, it's not like I was staring at a blank page. I was handed a huge book and told, well, felt like I just should make it better, which is a totally different situation. But, yeah, I don't know. Settling on a sustainable writing routine is, I think, the real key. I mean, at least for me. And also building in time in that routine to step away and actually have time, preferably alone and maybe with music, maybe. Maybe in nature that this. I'm just basically telling you what I did, you know, I would work in the morning with my coffee, have breakfast, work more, and then go on a nice hike and, you know, have time to. Yeah, I would just have time to process what I was doing. I would have my phone with me and I would be taking notes on my app. I use Evernote. Whatever note taking strategy you have is probably going to be just fine as long as you can, as long as it doesn't disappear.

Megan Scott (36:09)

Do you think walks are really good for digesting ideas and then thinking of new things? Because sometimes you get stuck and then you just need to, you just need to move around.

Jon Becker (36:18)

Right. And this, I don't know, this is less, less applicable to our work with the cookbook. But I tend to like blocking off time for, you know, a group of similar tasks so that you're not having to switch gears like every, whatever, 10 minutes. It's just kind of a divide and conquer strategy. I think is, is good, especially if it's a repetitive writing task.

Megan Scott (36:41)

I also really like if you're just trying to get better at writing and write more. I really like the morning pages strategy. That's from a book called the Artist's Way, which there's like a lot of woo woo stuff in that book that I don't so much jive with. But I think morning pages are really great. And basically what that is, is you sit down in the morning every morning as much as you can manage, and just write like three pages. I don't always write three pages. Maybe it's one page or two pages of just kind of stream of consciousness, whatever comes up. Because sometimes I think it's easy to get bogged down in like the minutia of stuff that's just rattling in your brain and you need to get it out on paper and then you can move on to maybe more focused work. And the morning pages aren't supposed to go anywh do anything except be an outlet for you to get all that stuff out of your head so you can do more focused work later. It's just a nice, it's a nice way to start the day and it kind of gets, gets the juices flowing. Melissa, do you have any writing advice for our caller?

Melissa Niffick (37:42)

I think what you said, Megan, was perfect and how I've come, you know, from it on both sides. I've accepted the pitches, combed through the pitches, and I've pitched. So I think that you were spot on. I think additionally, maybe what I would say is that in addition to the follow ups, just don't give up on it. You know, it does sometimes Take a while. And often editors are doing a million things at once and might not always get to your email right away. So don't let that discourage you, but certainly do follow up. And also just be encouraged that, you know, once you do have a pitch that's accepted, you're on their radar and you're a lot more likely, I mean, granted, you know, that, that your, your story ended up a okay, but you're a lot more likely to, to get a call back on that or maybe even become a regular freelancer for that publication. So I think it's just, I think you're right also that, you know, it's a matter of finding your niche and what you're good at and just what's interesting to you. Staying curious, reading a lot and just seeing, you know, sometimes like I'll come up with a story idea during an interview with somebody too. I'm like interviewing somebody about something. And then I was like, oh, this question is really interesting. I make a note like, this could be another story, you know, so, yeah, I think all those things.

Jon Becker (39:20)

I think that's a really good point. The reading aspect of it, I feel like that's probably 90% of writing is just making, you know, reading up on what you're covering and also seeing what else is out there. Yeah.

Melissa Niffick (39:35)

And also reading in the non traditional sense of, you know, obviously, you know, we're reading a lot that's online and on our social and, and all of that. But also on the food side of things, I read a lot of menus and I think that that has given me so many ideas too. Right. You start to see trends, you start to see ingredients that you never seen before. Sometimes menus have deep stories, you know, about the, the venue or the chef or whatever. So I think like, you know, that can all be part of it too.

Jon Becker (40:20)

Just out of curiosity, have you checked out the New York Public Library's collection of ancient menus, like art menus, throughout the years?

Melissa Niffick (40:28)

No. It's something that I'm ashamed to say that I haven't done that, but you've reminded me that that needs to be re added to my must do list.

Jon Becker (40:40)

It's really interesting. I'm not sure how practical it is for, I mean, unless you're doing some really, you know, deep dive type research.

Megan Scott (40:48)

Do you remember why you were looking those up?

Jon Becker (40:50)

No, I can't remember.

Megan Scott (40:51)

Maybe it was just for fun.

Jon Becker (40:53)

Maybe.

Shannon Larson (40:54)

I think it sounds fun.

Megan Scott (40:55)

Yeah, very, very fun. Maybe it was like, I think there was a minute where we were trying to figure Out.

Jon Becker (41:00)

It was like the origin of a dish.

Megan Scott (41:02)

Yeah.

Jon Becker (41:02)

We were trying to confirm, like, an origin story of a particular dish, and now I can't remember what it is.

Megan Scott (41:07)

And, like, how popular were oysters back in the 1920s? You know, that kind of. Kind of forensic recipe. Forensics.

Melissa Niffick (41:15)

So fun. I love old cookbooks, too. I got. When I was doing research for the National Parks book, I got an old presidential cookbook, and it was so much fun to read through. And I want to go back and make some of that stuff.

Jon Becker (41:32)

Yeah, it's a weird experience going back. There are definitely points of similarity, and it's fun to see those. But also, it's kind of an alien world. It's like, how did we get here from there?

Melissa Niffick (41:44)

Yeah.

Megan Scott (41:45)

So this week's Joy Scouts recipe we don't really have. I feel like writing and food writing is a hard theme to pick a recipe for, so it's not related at all to. With that.

Jon Becker (41:55)

I did have. I had a really good idea, but it's not a great recipe. It's like, what not to do.

Megan Scott (42:02)

Well, we fixed it. We did in the most recent edition, but it was a recipe that was pretty terrible from a previous one, which is not the recipe of the week. So maybe we shouldn't talk about it at all.

Jon Becker (42:14)

Sorry, sorry.

Megan Scott (42:15)

We're teasing everyone.

Shannon Larson (42:16)

I'll talk about it offline.

Megan Scott (42:17)

Yeah, we'll talk about it later. Maybe we'll talk about it someday. So our actual recipe of the week is the shaved fennel and white bean salad on page 129. We picked this recipe because it's just a really great summer, late summer recipe. When it's hot and gross outside, it requires you to heat a little bit of olive oil in a skillet and put a couple garlic cloves in there to infuse the oil. The oil with the garlic. And then I think there's rosemary or sage also gets in the oil. But there's basically no cooking. And it can be a complete meal if you add, like, canned tuna or a tuna steak or whatever. It's really good with seafood, but it's just a super easy summary recipe.

Shannon Larson (42:58)

I've actually made this one a few times. This is one of my. Go to.

Megan Scott (43:00)

This is very Shannon. Yeah, it's a very Shannon recipe.

Shannon Larson (43:03)

Beans, fennel. Okay. Very little cooking sometimes.

Megan Scott (43:07)

Yeah, great.

Shannon Larson (43:08)

No, it's really good. And we like to pair it with sometimes just sourdough. Like, it can be like the most simple meal, but I feel like that's sometimes the best kind of meal when.

Jon Becker (43:17)

You'Re out of avocado.

Shannon Larson (43:20)

Don't judge me. No, I love this recipe, so I'm excited. It's just an excuse to make it again.

Megan Scott (43:25)

Yeah. Do you ever make it with royal corona beans, like the big beans?

Shannon Larson (43:29)

No, I've only used, like, I need to.

Megan Scott (43:31)

You should try it. Try to get some. It's really good with those big, meaty corona beans.

Melissa Niffick (43:37)

Perfect. Is there something acidic that goes with it or, like, citrusy?

Megan Scott (43:41)

It does have lemon juice. So it's like lemon juice, olive oil, the beans, the fennel, kind of a. The garlicky ness from the olive oil. And then there's optional shaved parmesan at the end that you can add.

Melissa Niffick (43:56)

Yum. It sounds so much like this Sicilian recipe that I've made, which. And when you said the tuna, that reminded me. And it sounds. Yeah, it sounds just like. Just like it. But I think there's grapefruit and maybe oranges involved.

Shannon Larson (44:16)

That sounds really good.

Megan Scott (44:17)

That sounds delicious.

Melissa Niffick (44:18)

Yeah.

Shannon Larson (44:19)

I do think this recipe is great because you can add so much. Like, I'm gonna add tomatoes to it. Like, it's so nice. Or I've added capers before, and that was really good too.

Melissa Niffick (44:26)

And capers.

Shannon Larson (44:27)

Yeah. It's so good.

Melissa Niffick (44:30)

Yum.

Megan Scott (44:30)

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We'd love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (44:43)

It's hot here. Tell us everything you know about making good no churn ice cream.

Megan Scott (44:48)

Fun.

Shannon Larson (44:49)

That is fun.

Megan Scott (44:49)

I do want to talk about ice cream. All right, everybody, what are we cooking this week? What are we doing that we're excited about?

Shannon Larson (44:55)

We just got a flat top grill. I went for it, and I love it and John loves it. It's just a Blackstone flat top. So we're just trying to come up with all of the things to cook on there, and I really want to make. We haven't made breakfast on it yet.

Megan Scott (45:11)

Oh, fun.

Shannon Larson (45:12)

So I think that's on the plan this weekend. Like hash browns, eggs. One of my neighbors said they do pancakes on their flat top, and I'm like, that sounds great too. So a lot of flat top cooking, and then we are getting our CSA tomorrow. So I'm already thinking about menu planning from that. And I still have kohlrabi left from, like, two weeks ago.

Megan Scott (45:32)

I have a thing you might like. Okay. I made a kohlrabi. I know we both, like, have trouble with the Kohlrabbies we do.

Shannon Larson (45:39)

It's just.

Jon Becker (45:39)

I don't understand. Come on.

Megan Scott (45:42)

I made a salad this past week that was like. It's more of a slo, but it's like Kohlrabi matchsticks, apple matchsticks, lemon, a little honey, and then candied pecans. Oh, that was it.

Shannon Larson (45:55)

Oh, perfect.

Megan Scott (45:56)

Super easy. And it was really good.

Shannon Larson (45:59)

We have some chicken brats in the freezer and some cabbage, and we can.

Megan Scott (46:02)

Make all of that perfect. Yeah.

Shannon Larson (46:04)

Okay. Well, then I have at least one dinner planned this week.

Megan Scott (46:07)

Glad I could be of service. Thank you. I'm looking forward to Sunday, which is we are going to do some tuna canning, which is super exciting. Albacore tuna is a big deal here in the Pacific Northwest. And there is a season which is like right now where you can get it pretty affordably. You can just drive out to the coast, go to the dock, see who's there, buy some fish off the boat.

Shannon Larson (46:32)

They like, prep it for you right there on the boat, and you can watch it happen. And. Yeah, you just find a boat with a sign and a guy.

Megan Scott (46:39)

Yeah, just a guy. We've been kind of joking about it because last year I wasn't part of this particular tuna canning, but they found a person with very large biceps.

Shannon Larson (46:49)

Yes, it was. It was me and some girlfriends. We were like, this is the best canning day ever.

Megan Scott (46:54)

We find the bicep man, we have.

Shannon Larson (46:57)

A picture of his boat sign, so we'll.

Megan Scott (46:58)

We'll check him down. But we're going to pressure can a bunch of tuna, and it's kind of an all day thing, so we'll get some seafood while we're there and have that for dinner and.

Shannon Larson (47:09)

And eat banh mi in the middle of the day.

Jon Becker (47:11)

You know, get the. What. What is it? Like that electrified fly swatter for the hornets?

Shannon Larson (47:16)

Oh, yeah, that's a good idea.

Jon Becker (47:17)

Yeah, that's.

Megan Scott (47:18)

That is the only downside, really.

Jon Becker (47:19)

That is a downside.

Megan Scott (47:20)

Yeah. But it.

Shannon Larson (47:21)

It's a lot of work. But it's so nice, so fun.

Megan Scott (47:24)

It's the best tuna. I'm also going to plant my fall garden. The sweet week. I gotta get on it because it's time. But yeah, I'm excited about that. I'm gonna go with mostly greens, I think, you know, like kale and mustards and Chinese. I'm gonna do some Chinese radish, some dill and cilantro, and just tender fall things.

Shannon Larson (47:41)

Perfect.

Megan Scott (47:41)

Melissa, what are you cooking this week?

Melissa Niffick (47:43)

This week I am continuing to test through the world. Let's see, I have, I think Burkina Faso, Bahrain and Kazakhstan, Romania. So I've got a few of those countries to work on. And then this weekend we're headed to my parents in Ohio for next week. We'll be gone for, for the week. And I'm really excited to have my mom cook for me for a couple days. And I'm excited to cook for her for a couple days. I'm not sure what she's making yet, but she always, you know, right before I come, she'll always ask what I have a taste for. And generally it'll be something that I miss. So we'll, we'll find out. Last time it was stuffed cabbages. It might be a little too hot.

Megan Scott (48:36)

For that right now. That dish is such a labor of love, too. It takes so long, but it's so good.

Shannon Larson (48:42)

There's something so special about going to visit family and just having those recipes that, that I don't know, that feel good for sure.

Megan Scott (48:50)

And before we wrap, where can listeners follow you?

Melissa Niffick (48:53)

On Instagram, I'm just Alyssa Niffic and I also have a website with some of my work and links to recipes. It's just melissaniffick.com and on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles and Hudson booksellers I think right now has the National Parks Cookbook.

Megan Scott (49:12)

Book available for pre order, pre order that book. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle no Churn ice cream. And don't forget to make this week's recipe, shaved fennel and white bean salad on page 129. Call in with questions, hopes, history or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

Shannon Larson (49:50)

And we couldn't do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Dave Dresky, our production coordinator, Hayley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Dirk Marshall, our producer.

Megan Scott (50:01)

If you love the stories we bring you each week, please consider supporting us on Patreon as an independent media company. Your support is absolutely essential. It allows us to continue creating high quality professional episodes that amplify the voices of women, small business owners, writers, artists and creatives and keep their stories free from commercial pressure by becoming a Patreon member. You're not just supporting us, you're investing in the future of independent Media. Please visit patreon.com thejoyofcreationproductionhouse to join our community today. Thank you for listening and supporting our podcast Dreams.