Sara Bir On Foraging For Human Connection

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast

Episode Title: Sara Bir: A Casual Culinary Chat About Caramelized Onions
Date: April 1, 2026
Host: The Joy of Creation Production House
Main Hosts: John Becker, Megan Scott, Shannon Larson
Guest: Sara Bir (Chef, writer, forager, and author of Pocket Nature: Fruit Harvesting)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a lively, affectionate deep-dive into culinary adventures, with a special focus on minimalist home cooking, fruit foraging, and the challenges (and joys) of recipe development. The hosts—John, Megan, and Shannon—welcome chef, author, and foraging advocate Sara Bir for a relaxed, insightful conversation touching on recipe philosophy, kitchen shortcuts, the importance of fruit in our culinary and mindful lives, and, of course, what everyone’s been cooking lately. Regular features include riffing on granola, five-ingredient recipes, foraging etiquette, and lots of Joy of Cooking “family lore.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breakfast Experiments & Culinary Traditions (00:40–07:33)

• Bagel Adventures: John explains the “everything bagel” challenge—loading a bagel with chive schmear, pork floss, pickled mustard greens, fried shallots, and cilantro, reflecting his inventive approach to breakfast. Megan gently teases him about the complexity.
  • “I explore... maybe not everything, but certainly anything that I can think of.” —John Becker (01:39)
• Travel & Food Fatigue: Shannon shares about travel and eating out, missing home-cooked meals, and vegan taco experiments for her grandfather.
  • “I did make tacos for my vegan grandfather… his mind was blown.” —Shannon Larson (04:15)
• Granola “Hot Takes”: Megan recalls a passionate granola debate: no dried fruit in or after baking.
  • “I do not put fruit in my granola... it was like, this was a new concept.” —Megan Scott (04:47)
• Cheese Ball Innovations: The team discusses the week’s Joy Scouts recipe: cheddar cheese ball with horseradish, bacon, and fried shallots, which later stars in unique sandwiches.
  • “The cheddar cheese ball got turned into several cheddar cheeseball sandwiches, which I was just like, I really like the sound of a cheddar cheese ball sandwich because it just doesn’t sound like it should work.” —John Becker (06:41)

2. Welcoming Sara Bir: Recipe Development & Slow Cooker Challenges (08:23–15:16)

• No-Browning Slow Cooker Recipes: Sara describes her ongoing assignment to develop slow-cooker recipes with minimal prep—no browning or sautéing.
  • “People who use slow cookers want to be able to just put the things in there, put the lid on and get on with their day… [but] the acid from the tomatoes doesn't play nice with the dry lentils, so they get tough.” —Sara Bir (08:54)
• Tricks for Vegan Bolognese: Sara candidly shares recipe troubleshooting—using tahini for body in vegan Bolognese when plant milk curdles.
  • “In the end, I used a couple tablespoons of tahini… which worked pretty well, actually.” —Sara Bir (12:08)

3. The Role of Joy of Cooking in Sara’s Life & Baking Salt-Rising Bread (15:40–18:34)

• Family Cookbook Heritage: Sara inherited a 1970s Joy of Cooking; she reminisces about the mystery and magic of salt-rising bread and foraging bacteria-based starters.
  • “It's such an interesting recipe… it has almost like an Asiago bagel taste… so it’s like my dream bread.” —Sara Bir (16:25)

4. Signature Potluck Dishes & Fake Vegan Tricks (18:34–21:17)

• Moroccan Sweet Potato Salad: Sara’s signature potluck dish features roasted sweet potatoes with green chermoula and toasted almonds—colorful, vegan-ish, and delicious.
  • “I bring it to potlucks because I want to eat it. I'm a fake vegan...” —Sara Bir (18:34)

5. Foraging, Nature, and Mindfulness (22:03–43:36)

About Sara’s New Book: Pocket Nature: Fruit Harvesting

• How Sara Began Foraging: A serendipitous encounter with a pawpaw sparked her desire to catalog, cook with, and teach about wild fruit.
  • “It was clearly edible fruit… didn't taste like anything I’d ever experienced in Ohio. So beguiled by it…” —Sara Bir (22:13)
• Why Write About Fruit Gathering? Sara aims to bridge knowledge gaps between traditional foraging, modern culinary trends, and mindfulness.
  • “This book I was actually asked to write, it's part of the Pocket Nature series. The approach is to use nature as a jumping point for mindfulness.” —Sara Bir (25:04)
• Foraging Etiquette:
  • “The basic rule is don’t be a jerk... Connecting with people is the best way to find out if it’s okay to forage or not.” —Sara Bir (27:59)
• Mindfulness, Technology & ‘Zone of Inconclusion’: Sara and John discuss the joys of slow learning, skepticism about instant answers, and the empowerment of figuring out plant IDs by oneself.
  • “I think there was a line you had in the book where it was lingering in a zone of inconclusion… I just want to be there.” —John Becker (31:47)
• Fruit as Connection:
  • “Fruit involves so many other beings… it’s just like this really cool mesh of all those living things.” —Shannon Larson (43:01)

6. Five-Ingredient Recipe Roundtable (44:13–54:29)

• Defining 5-Ingredient and Minimalist Cooking: The group dives into the real meaning behind “five-ingredient” recipes and how they fit into everyday cooking.
  • “What does a five-ingredient recipe signify?… Is it just the ingredients or is it thirty minutes?” —Megan Scott (44:44)
• Joy of Cooking’s Minimalist Favorites:
  • Kimchi Fried Rice: “That one’s a really good, simple recipe. I love that it uses leftover rice.” —Megan Scott (48:02)
  • Grapes and Sausage: “It was delicious and it’s so easy… something that feels more elegant.” —Shannon Larson (48:57)
  • Orecchiette with Sausage and Broccoli Rabe: “A great recipe and super easy.” —Megan Scott (52:47)
  • Becker Burgers: “They’re pan-fried burgers… not designed to go in a bun. More of an open face situation.” —John Becker (50:31)
• Ingredient “Rules”:
  • “Can you speak to that [about salt/pepper/oil rules], Sarah?” “People have feelings about ingredients… that’s one of the top things people get salty about. No pun intended.” —Sarah Bir (45:39)
• Recommendation: Quick Peanut Butter & Jelly Thumbprints, p.785 (2019 edition) as a simple, delightful bake.

7. Listener Call: Caramelized Onion Creativity Preview (55:13–55:46)

• Topic Teaser: Next week’s episode will explore “all the ways to use caramelized onions”—including their iconic place on the “Seattle dog” hot dog and beyond.

8. What’s Cooking This Week? (55:49–59:57)

• Shannon: Megan’s frozen lasagna and a new chopped salad dressing (“just a whole lemon, olive oil, salt, pepper, grated garlic, and a splash of white vinegar”—56:24).
• Sara: Dreaming of “bunny chow” (South African chana masala in a hollowed-out bread loaf) with black garbanzo beans (57:27). Tired of vegan Bolognese recipe testing.
• John & Megan: Kanji (congee rice porridge) with a new freezer hack; soup chapter testing—escarole and white bean soup featuring Rancho Gordo beans (58:47).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “One of the things that we can think of as a privilege now is to do things in slow motion... if you look over the seasons and repeat it year after year, you get better at noticing patterns.” —Sara Bir (31:57)
• “The activities [in the book] were a little bit of a starting point to take that giant concept and miniaturize it so you can process it a little better just by looking at a flower.” —Sara Bir (41:52)
• “I love fuzzy boundaries.” —John Becker (41:47)
• “Fruit: it’s just the sex of the plant, hanging out there in full view. How can you beat that? Plant sex gone.” —Sara Bir (42:42)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:40 – Hosts introduce themselves and riff on bagel philosophy
• 03:14 – Shannon’s vegan tacos, midwestern food observations
• 04:47 – Megan’s granola opinions—no dried fruit!
• 06:00 – The cheddar cheese ball saga
• 08:23 – Sara Bir joins the show
• 08:54 – Sara discusses “dump-and-go” slow cooker recipe development
• 12:08 – The secret tahini trick in vegan Bolognese
• 16:25 – Salt-rising bread memories and fermentation hacks
• 18:34 – Moroccan sweet potato salad at potlucks
• 22:13 – Sara’s fruit foraging journey, pawpaw discovery
• 27:59 – Foraging etiquette: “Don’t be a jerk”
• 31:47 – “Zone of inconclusion” and nature-based mindfulness
• 44:13 – Listener question: Five-ingredient recipes
• 50:31 – The “Becker Burger” origin story
• 55:13 – Listener call: Caramelized onions (“Seattle dog”)
• 56:24 – Shannon’s favorite salad dressing
• 57:27 – Sara’s dream of making bunny chow
• 58:47 – John’s kanji hack and Megan’s bean soup experiments

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Where to Follow & Connect

• Sara Bir on Instagram: @sausageitarian
• Joy of Cooking: joyofcooking.substack.com & Instagram @thejoyofcooking
• Joy of Cooking Hotline: [phone]

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Next Week’s Teaser

The next episode promises a full exploration into creative uses for caramelized onions, fielding listener ideas and expert applications.

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This episode blends family stories and food philosophy with highly practical advice—making it a must-listen for home cooks, foragers, Joy of Cooking fans, and anyone passionate about the everyday joy of food.

Transcript

[Sarah Burr]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and what we're cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, Joy of Cooking user and fan and eating oranges on planes. Enthusiastic.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co Author of the 2019 edition of the Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night. And I apparently have very strong feelings about granola, to say the least.

[John Becker]

I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. And when I hear the phrase everything bagel, I take it as a challenge.

[Megan Scott]

Tell them about your breakfast this morning.

[John Becker]

Oh, well, I mean, I feel like that was.

[Megan Scott]

You gotta explain it.

[John Becker]

Okay.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. I feel like every single intro that you do, there's like a needed explanation.

[Megan Scott]

There's lore.

[John Becker]

Yeah, well, yeah, so we get a dozen bagels at a time from Bernstein Bagels. Very, very good bagels. And then, you know, we split them and we freeze them in a big and, you know, a few freezer bags and. And then they're just perfect for, like, just toasting under a broiler. So, you know, I just, I've been. I explore. I explore, you know, maybe not everything, but certainly anything that I can think of. And this week I've definitely been on kind of. Well, I don't know, I saw some pork floss in the. In the cupboard that really. I just feel like I had been neglecting it. So it was chive schmear and pork floss and red pepper flake.

[Megan Scott]

Didn't you say you put pickled mustard on there as well?

[John Becker]

Oh, yeah. Pickled mustard greens, Chinese pickled mustard greens, some fried shallots and some cilantro.

[Megan Scott]

How was it?

[John Becker]

It was delicious. I'd definitely do it again. I don't know, I feel like maybe the pickled mustard green might have been a little too much.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That was what pushed it over there.

[John Becker]

Well, you know, I mean, it's work in progr. The finding of everything.

[Megan Scott]

So philosophical. What have you been? I mean, you've been. You've been traveling. Shannon, I feel like we haven't seen you for a few weeks.

[Shannon Larson]

I know. I have been traveling. I went back to the Midwest for some family stuff, and the pork tenderloin is just on so many menus in Indiana, and I Always get, like, overwhelmed with that. I didn't eat any of it, really.

[Megan Scott]

You didn't even have it once?

[Shannon Larson]

I didn't have it once. I was trying to keep it light. When I travel, I like to, you know, not eat something super heavy food. But I. My mom. My mom who lives in Florida now, we were just like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, Pork tenderloin all over the place.

[Megan Scott]

All over. So it's like that in North Carolina, too. Pork tenderloin giant. Also huge fried pork tenderloin. Oh, man, it's fascinating.

[John Becker]

I feel like it's not as big in North Carolina, though. From what I understand. It's. If a pork tenderloin sandwich, if. If the pork tenderloin isn't, like, double or triple the diameter of the bun, then. Then you're doing something wrong, and then.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's huge.

[John Becker]

I feel like North Carolina's. What?

[Shannon Larson]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

No, they do that. We haven't been going to the places where you get those sandwiches. That's the problem.

[Sarah Burr]

Well, remedy that.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Who fault. Whose fault is that?

[Megan Scott]

Jeez, my mom's such a good cook. We don't go out to eat that much when we're visiting my family.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, we did. We had to eat out a lot because we were staying in a hotel. And I am so ready to start cooking again.

[Megan Scott]

I'm sure.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm just feeling, like, worn down just from eating out so much, but, yeah,

[Megan Scott]

I know that feeling.

[Shannon Larson]

I did make tacos for my vegan grandfather, and I used tofu, and I crumbled it and I put a bunch of spices in it, and his mind was blown. He had never used tofu that way. And so that made him really happy. And that was great.

[Megan Scott]

That's so sweet. I love that.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I've got granola on the brain because I've been making it a bunch. I made it for Canning Club this week because I didn't want to can anything. And two other people also made granola, but we got to trade all of our granolas. It was cute, which is. Seems so typical.

[John Becker]

Might be the basis for a new club.

[Megan Scott]

A granola club.

[John Becker]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, but I got into a discussion, not at Canning Club, but on the camping trip we did a couple weeks ago, about how I do not. I do not put fruit in my gr. Like, when I'm baking it or afterwards, I don't put any dried fruit in it. And people were like, well, why? And I was like, well, it's either going to get super dry and hard or it's going to make your granola not crunchy anymore if you add it afterwards. And it was like, this was a new concept. And I was like, am I the only person who doesn't put dried fruit in their granola?

[Shannon Larson]

No, I might. I. My husband would totally agree with that. He doesn't like that either. I feel like.

[Megan Scott]

Well, he. He was entertaining the possibility that you could put fruit in your granola.

[Sarah Burr]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

He was like, I've never even thought of that. Yeah, that was a. That was a fun conversation.

[John Becker]

Yeah. You.

[Megan Scott]

You were.

[John Becker]

You were surprisingly, you know, adamant. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I didn't know I had that opinion until it came up.

[Shannon Larson]

So do you use fresh fruit in your, like, yogurt?

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

When I build a bowl, you put

[Megan Scott]

fruit in, but that's. That's when you put fruit in. I agree with you.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm gonna. If I were on that trip, I would have been like, megan's right.

[John Becker]

I mean, I. That's my default answer.

[Megan Scott]

What? Megan is right.

[John Becker]

Yeah. I work. I work from there. That is.

[Shannon Larson]

I remember that.

[Megan Scott]

I don't think that that's true, but we'll revisit. We also made our Joy Scouts recipe of the week, and that was the cheddar cheese ball on page 55. We made it for canning club. So it's got horseradish and bacon and in it. And then we rolled it in fried shallots, like the kind you can get in the jar that actually would have

[Shannon Larson]

fit in perfectly in Indiana and the hotel room just, like, rolling together a cheese ball.

[Megan Scott]

And we served it with firecrackers. So that was. Everybody always wants the firecrackers.

[Shannon Larson]

Our producer is, like, over here drooling.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Everyone wants the firecrackers. And so John will send people home with little baggies.

[John Becker]

That's what I do. Then the cheddar cheese ball got turned into several cheddar cheeseball sandwiches, which I was just like, I really like the sound of a cheddar cheese ball sandwich because it just doesn't sound like it should work. Like, there's a ball and then you.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And the bread is square or rectangular. Like, what's. What's going on?

[Shannon Larson]

Did you put it on a bagel and everything?

[Megan Scott]

Bagel, Yeah.

[John Becker]

I should have. I mean, it's. It's not too late. I think we still have some.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, do it. Report back.

[John Becker]

Okay.

[Megan Scott]

Wait, what did you put on the sandwich? The cheese ball sandwich you made the other day. There was something else on there.

[John Becker]

I mean, do we have to really go into.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I just genuinely can't remember what it was.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm also now very curious.

[John Becker]

Oh man, I wish I could remember. I did do something. I feel like it was potato chips. Yeah, that probably that tracks those extra dark potato chips. Highly recommend the Trader Joe's dark potato chips.

[Megan Scott]

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[Dirk Marshall]

must be 21 to enjoy we would

[Megan Scott]

like to welcome Sarah Burr to the table. Sarah Burr is a chef, writer and plant nerd who aims to get people outside and looking at their everyday surroundings in a completely new way. She teaches classes for home cooks and has worked as a chocolate factory tour guide, sausage cart lackey, website editor, recipe and restaurant critic. Her latest book is Pocket Nature Fruit Harvesting, A Petite Guide to Mindfulness through Observing and Savoring Fruiting plants. Welcome to the show, Sarah.

[Sarah Burr]

Hi guys, how are you?

[Megan Scott]

What have you been cooking this week?

[Sarah Burr]

Oh, I have a recipe development assignment from a grocery store chain that I used to work with a lot a number of years ago and it's really great work because they just give me a list of things and they say make this happen. So I don't come up with the ideas, I just troubleshoot and materialize them and come up with the recipes. I don't slow cook and this story is a package of slow cooking recipes and I'm trying to make it so that they are all just dump the ingredients in and turn on the cooker and go. Because I feel like anytime you're browning things or sauteing them first, it's a cheat. People who use slow cookers want to be able to just put the things in there, put the lid on and get on with their day. So there are two recipes that worked out well and I'm happy and the third is a vegan lentil Bolognese and it's being very problematic. The concept is good. But in the slow cooker, it is tricky because I've learned that the acid from the tomatoes doesn't play nice with the dry lentils, so they get tough. And you have to cook everything for so long that by then the minced vegetables have just dissolved into nothingness and there's no flavor based. You're not building flavor the way you would with a traditional Bolognese. There's no meat, so there's. There's no bottom, if that makes sense. Normally I have cheat ingredients I would use. Like, I'd try to plop in some miso or some Maggi sauce, which Maggi sauce is probably not vegan. I don't think that's a. We make these mainstream. Right. This is for a mainstream audience. So I put some soy sauce in there and that was kind of like the lentils are tough. The tomatoes don't really cook down, if that makes sense. They're really tinny tasting and very sharp and acidic. And none of this is really making sense to me because I know people cook with tomatoes and slow cookers, but maybe it's just like a jar and it's a soup and there's a lot of liquid to buffer it. So I'm very challenged and I've tried all these little tricks and it's just not working. So I finally emailed my editor and I said I asked for permission for this last trick I had, which is gonna sound really wack. A Bolognese sauce oftentimes has milk in it. That's a nice body and it helps mellow out the. If there wine or tomatoes, if that's in there, it helps mellow it out. And I definitely needed some mellowing with this sauce. But plant milk will curdle.

[Megan Scott]

Mm.

[Sarah Burr]

So I thought, okay, what's something that a lot of people have that's gonna lend some body to this? Really flat, mushy, has no fat in its sauce. And in the end, I used a couple tablespoons of tahini.

[Megan Scott]

Okay.

[Sarah Burr]

Which worked pretty well, actually. I was quite pleased with that, but I didn't like any of the rest of it. So that's what I've been making this week. And I'm so excited to go back to things that I want to be eating and making. Once I finish with this delightful assignment that I feel happy to have, I'll just savor my regular ways of eating, which is like a pot of beans and some tortillas. I just eat on that all week.

[John Becker]

So there's no pre searing requirement. Is that Self imposed or is that something that the person commissioning the recipes asked you to avoid? I'm just curious.

[Sarah Burr]

It's self imposed. The story has a back to school slant. It's for a fall issue. And I imagine this is parents who are putting things together early in the morning before they're rustling their kids together and getting them off to school, and then they're heading to work. And the last thing I want to do before work is make pans dirty. I already have people pulsing vegetables in a food processor. I don't know. I think that's a pretty good way to save a lot of time. The other two recipes, there's very minimal knife work, so that was very nice. But yes, it's a self imposed rule, I guess. I like to make things hard, but I want these to be recipes that are worth making for people and also realistic. Somebody might skip the step of browning them and then they'll be like, oh, this is gross. I mean, this is just a grocery store magazine, so I shouldn't be taking it that far.

[Megan Scott]

But I think that's a good instinct to not have any browning or a bunch of pre steps going on for slow cooker recipes. You should talk to my mom. My mom is the queen of the slow cooker. She. She used that thing probably three or four nights a week when we were growing up. Like, she would put stuff in in the beginning of the. In the morning, and then when she got home, dinner was on the table in like 30 minutes. Magic.

[Sarah Burr]

What was your favorite thing that she made?

[Megan Scott]

She made this. It was like a pork roast. And I'm pretty sure that she also used the Lipton's onion soup mix in it. I don't know what else. There must have been other things like liquid, I don't know. But it was delicious and it smelled amazing when you walk in the door.

[John Becker]

And that would probably substitute for some of the browning that is lacking.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[John Becker]

Makes sense.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah, totally. I think that would be good eating, to be honest. I think you could get away with just having a nice pork roast and the soup mix. Putting the lid on, and then all the liquid's gonna come out of the. The pork roast. So you don't need to add any extra liquid. You'll have some nice concentrated flavor and a sort of thin gravy you could slurry if you wanted to. I learned that in a slow cooker you can thicken it with cornstarch, but you need to like walk away for 15 minutes and come back. It's not a 30 second deal. Because it's not boiling rapidly. So yeah, I usually pressure cook. I'm a fast cooker.

[Megan Scott]

I thought you were going to say something way weirder than tahini. When you were telling the secret ingredient, I thought you were going to say something like non dairy creamer. I was like, ooh, I'm waiting.

[Sarah Burr]

It's all vanilla flavored. I don't think.

[Megan Scott]

Oh yeah, that's really gnarly.

[Sarah Burr]

That would be extra weird. Vanilla non dairy creamer in the Bolognese.

[Megan Scott]

You never know.

[John Becker]

Yeah, vanilla in savory recipes is a Rubicon of some kind.

[Megan Scott]

You don't agree with it? I think it could work depending on what it is.

[John Becker]

I know that it definitely happens in like coconut shrimp recipes and things like that, but yeah, there's something about it that just doesn't out of the box doesn't feel right.

[Megan Scott]

Sarah, what is your relationship with the Joy of Cooking?

[Sarah Burr]

My mom had a copy. I'm certain that's the answer you get from many of your guests. And hers was a 70 something edition. I don't know what year it was printed in, but it had the symbols next to the recipe. So that was still happening at the time. The breeds this and I don't know what the other symbols were, but it had the symbols. I know. There's also a recipe for salt rising bread in that one. She didn't make salt rising bread. It just blew my mind. I actually ended up making that years later, which is. It's such an interesting recipe.

[Megan Scott]

Did you get it? Did it work for you?

[Sarah Burr]

I did. And you know what I did in the end? This, by the way, is a recipe where you make a starter, but it's not yeast based, it's based on bacteria. And the starter only lasts for one batch. You have to make a new starter from scratch each time. And people usually make their starter from raw potatoes or cornmeal or both in milk maybe, or water. And you? I incubated it in my instant pot on the yogurt incubation setting. And once I did that, I was able to control a lot more of the temperature. And so the starter was nice and robust. And I had a couple starters. There was one that like, I took it too far so I kind of got the visuals down. And then it is a bread. You use just like white ap flour and shortening. And so it's like a white sandwich bread, but the crumb is really dense and because of the bacteria it has a. It sounds so weird, right? We're used to bacteria and food being bad, but this is good bacteria. It has almost like an Asiago bagel taste. It has a little bit of a cheese aftertaste. And it's a bread that people usually toast. I bake bread sometimes because I like to toast it. I toast almost everything, so this is like my dream bread. I like whole grain things, you know, so it's a. And I'm just too busy to mess around with starters every time I want to make bread every single time.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's a really. That's a peculiar one. I feel like we had trouble getting it to work, but it's kind of notorious for.

[John Becker]

Yeah, it's really.

[Megan Scott]

For it not working.

[John Becker]

Really finicky. I definitely remember hearing about a. Like a. Using an immersion circulator to get it. To get it started as well, because, you know, you need just that consistent, elevated, but not too high temperature. We should revisit it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we should. My final question, or not my final question, but my final intro question for you is, what is your signature dish? Do you have a dish that you make like you're going to the Potluck and everyone expects you to bring this thing, or you always bring this thing, or you're always giving out the recipe to people because they always want it?

[Sarah Burr]

I suppose I do, and I bring it to Potlucks because I want to eat it. I'm a fake vegan, and there's not usually a lot of vegan ish offerings at Potluck. So I bring this. And also I find there's a shortage of vegetable things at Potluck's. This is a Moroccan sweet potato salad, and I learned the recipe when I was testing recipes for the Oregonian. They had a test kitchen there at the offices of the paper, and it was right next to the photo department, so the photographers were always coming in and just snacking on stuff. It was great. They loved everything. They weren't that great for feedback because they just ate everything. Journalists eat everything, apparently. So this recipe was developed, I believe, by Laura B. Russell. And you roast cubes of sweet potatoes. While that's happening, you make a green chermoula. Is that how you say that? Which is like this herby Moroccan seasoning. So it's got parsley and cilantro and garlic and paprika and cumin, lemon juice, olive oil. Well, there's probably some other magic ingredient. Lots of salt. And then you just toss that all together while the potatoes are warm, and you garnish it with toasted sliced almonds. And sometimes I put a little crumble of feta Cheese on there. That's why I'm a fake vegan. It's delicious, though, and it's very nice at room temperature. That's another good plus for a potluck. And it's colorful. It really stands out on a potluck table. So that is the recipe I bring to things, and people do tend to ask me for the recipe.

[Shannon Larson]

That sounds so good. My grandfather, who I was just visiting, is vegan, and he's been having a little bit of cramping in his hands and stuff, and I'm like, I think you need more potassium. He's talked to his doctor about it, obviously. Use your doctor's advice. And so I made him, like, a potassium basket of food. I got him bananas and sweet potatoes and, you know, other things, and I'm totally going to pass that by him because he can make that ahead of time and just eat it throughout the week too, which I think is something that is really useful as well. Sweet potatoes are great.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, I love them so much. Great.

[Shannon Larson]

I've been eating them, like, constantly recently. But that sounds like a beautiful recipe and something easy to put together and filling and good for cramping hands and definitely cherbola.

[John Becker]

I'm a big fan. Chamula is great.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds great.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah. I could just eat it with a spoon without the sweet potatoes. On a bagel. On an everything Bagel.

[Shannon Larson]

Bagel.

[Megan Scott]

Why not?

[John Becker]

We're on the same wavelength. I understand.

[Megan Scott]

You know, we're big fans of Rombauer Vineyards. They're sponsoring today's episode, actually. But honestly, their wines are fantastic, with so many joy of cooking dishes. My current favorite is their Sauvignon Blanc with our Khao Soy Gail recipe. That bright, crisp wine cuts right through the richness of the curry. It's perfect.

[John Becker]

Oh, absolutely. Being Oregonians, we take our pinots seriously. We're excited about their new Pinot Noir, which pairs beautifully with our chicken jambalaya. The wine has enough body to stand up to all those bold, creole flavors.

[Megan Scott]

If you want to try these pairings yourself, head to rombauer.com joy or use code joypod all caps for 15% off. That's R O M B A U E R dot com joy R or code joypod all caps.

[Dirk Marshall]

Must be 21 to enjoy.

[Megan Scott]

Sarah, can you tell us about your. Your latest project? Your book, Fruit Harvesting. What made you want to write about gathering fruit?

[Sarah Burr]

I've written two other books about gathering fruit, and that goes way back to. I think this is, like, maybe 2015 or 2013. I moved from Oregon to Marietta, Ohio. And I started going on hikes in the woods because there was a trailhead next to my daughter's preschool. And so I'd take her to preschool, and I would have, like, some me time. And I was out on the trail once in September, and I saw this squashed fruit on just, like, smack dab in the middle of the trail. And it was bright yellow, and it looked like nothing I'd ever seen in Ohio. I grew up playing in the woods, like, all the time. But I did hear about this fruit called pawpaw, and I'd never seen it. It was like a bigfoot of fruits. And I became aware of it when I was living away. And so I always was like, huh, I wonder if I'll ever see one of those. But it wasn't too conscious in my mind. But when I saw this thing, I was. I felt kind of certain it was a pawpaw. So I went back the next day, and I saw another one wasn't squashed. And I just tasted it, which you shouldn't do if you don't know what something is, but I take the hit for you. And it was clearly edible fruit. And I was just so beguiled by it because it didn't taste anything like I'd ever experienced in Ohio. It's fried and tropical and mushy. It's actually related to chermoyas and custard apples. It's from that family. It doesn't keep very well, but the flavor was so good, I was trying to figure out how to use it in recipes. And all the recipes I found online were for pies or quick bread. And that's actually kind of a theme with any kind of weird fruit. Actually, pies are quick bread, and I love both of those things. But it just seemed like it wasn't a service to pawpaw especially. The flavors become really muted when you heat them well.

[John Becker]

And pawpaws are pretty rare. It seems like, you know, in order to make up a whole pie, you would have to, like, drown it in custard or something.

[Sarah Burr]

If you live where pawpaws are, they are so not rare.

[John Becker]

Okay.

[Sarah Burr]

A lot of people around here will have. They'll just have rural property, and there'll be pawpaw trees on the property. And I always run into these people because I eventually wrote a pawpaw cookbook, and somebody will be aware that I did that. And I'll run into these people, and they'll say, my uncle has pawpaws on his property, and he lives about an hour and a half away. You can go forage there. I'll ask him. It's really sweet. But I have a place I go. And the hardest part is bringing them back because they get bruised. You don't want to put too many in a bag because they'll compress. So anyway, I had all these tricks for pawpaws, and I put them together in a little cookbook because I just didn't feel like they were properly supported with recipes online or in other folksy little old clip, you know, recipes from newspapers, maybe. I don't know. Inevitably, I branched out to foraging for other kinds of fruit. And I thought, well, there's a problem. People need to know how to prepare these fruits and what to look for, when to harvest them. And so I wrote a book called the Fruit Forager's Companion, and it had identification tips. It told you how to do everything like soup to nuts with the fruit. Right. And that was a lovely book to put together, but it turns out not a lot of people have this problem with fruit. I think everyone who does bought the book already. And so this book I was actually asked to write, it's part of the Pocket Nature series. And the approach is to use nature as a jumping point for mindfulness, just a way to recenter yourself. And that's completely what I always did with fruit. Actually, back before pawpaws, when I lived in Oregon, I would take my dog on walks all over our neighborhood. And there was a house a couple blocks away with two quince trees. I could tell you exactly where, if you want to hear later.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I'll take the. I'll take the address, please.

[Shannon Larson]

I'll take it, too.

[Sarah Burr]

I would sneak the quince from the yard because I noticed nobody was taking them. And over like a week, I could just get a whole bowl's worth. And I started making poach quince and membrillo and this and that, and it just got under my skin. I had to start looking for fruit everywhere. I think when you have a dog and then an infant and you're just pushing the stroller and walking a dog all over Portland, you start looking at yards for entertainment.

[Megan Scott]

Well, there's so much fruit. There's so much yard fruit here.

[Shannon Larson]

There's so much.

[Sarah Burr]

Oh, my gosh, so much. I love visiting in August because the. What are the plums? Oh, gosh, they have a name. I actually have it in my book. I should look it up. Sometimes I actually have to look at my book for reference when I'm working on something else right now.

[Megan Scott]

Good Thing you wrote it.

[Sarah Burr]

It's a good thing I wrote it, but there are these small plums in Portland, right? They're dark, and when you. They're all over sidewalks, and they look like just like these blood splatters, and they have pretty large pits, and they're really jammy. You got to have, like, something pretty squishy. But they're delicious. They're really good eating. I love those. That's a nice Portland fruit.

[Shannon Larson]

My neighbor has one, and some of the branches hang over into my yard, and so I just take them.

[Sarah Burr]

Well, that's like.

[Megan Scott]

That's something we should talk about. What are the rules around harvesting fruit from somebody else's yard?

[John Becker]

Well, I feel like in your book, you. You say the basic rule is don't be a jerk, right?

[Sarah Burr]

I think, yeah, yeah. If it's somebody else's quince tree, don't take it. Eventually I got up the nerve to knock on that person's door, and they were like, quince. That's what those are. So I was actually helping them. But finally I had their blessing. And I wasn't just some person trespassing and stealing. And I made some quince jelly, and I left it on their doorstep. I don't know if they did anything with it, but quince jelly is very pretty. And you can just put it in a windowsill and then the light hits it. Like stained glass. Yes. So don't be a jerk. Really. You can. If it's a park, like a city park, you can just ask the city, call the city. It's funny, we're so accustomed to using the Internet or even, like, using. What's that thing? ChatGPT or something?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, whatever that thing is called.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah. You can just pick up a phone and talk to a person, and it's really quite direct. And you'll learn all kinds of things. So connecting with people is the best way to find out if it's okay to forage or not. And foraging. To me, it's all about connection, and it's very much about people. I do a lot of it in a. In a. By myself. So it's a solitary pursuit. But the enthusiasm that other people have, and sometimes as people, you wouldn't even guess. Foraging for fruit. It transcends political beliefs and religion and ages and cultural background. It's a wonderful way to just get to your essential humanity, or that you're just part of the whole nature thing out there, all of us together.

[John Becker]

I really enjoyed reading your book for that reason. I feel like, like you said in this other book, you have the soup to nuts kind of approach in this other book, but this one seems to be more concerned with, like, the conditions necessary to get you out the door to be, you know, like, looking at the world with new eyes. And those eyes are particularly like, you know, interested in finding fruit. It made me smile a lot. Really enjoyed it.

[Sarah Burr]

Thank you, John. I guess the book is like a starter kit. It is to get people motivated to get out the door. And even I sometimes have to force myself. Like I was typing up revisions to the vegan Bolognese today and the minutes were slipping by and I was like, oh, man, I got to get out there while there's daylight because it's beautiful outside and it's so easy to get sucked into other things. But when you balance out your digital life or your inside life, your slow cooker life, you're researching things online life, when you balance that out with actual tangible experiences, tactile experiences, it helps you work better on the other things and refreshes you.

[John Becker]

I was also interested in how you positioned the book in relation to the vast resources that we have that you were alluding to. Maybe not ChatGPT. I would not trust ChatGPT to do an ID on anything that I find in the woods. But, you know, having like all of those, you know, kind of inaturalist and all these other apps that will can help you, like, either keep track of where you find things or ID them for you or whatever. I was kind of really taken by. I think there was a line you had in the book where it was lingering in a zone of inconclusion. Like the. The opportunity to actually, like, be in a space where you don't necessarily have the answer. And you. I don't know. I just. I want to be there. I really want to be in that zone of inconclusion.

[Megan Scott]

In the zone of inconclusion.

[John Becker]

It kind of. You're very eloquent, at least I think.

[Sarah Burr]

Yes. One of the things that we can think of as a privilege now is to do things in slow motion. We wanted to have information right away. That's what we're accustomed to. But other people died years ago trying to figure out how all kinds of wild food work so we don't have to. We have food in our kitchens that we can just eat that came from the store. And if we want to know what a certain type of butterfly is, yeah, you can just look in a guide. But if you look over the seasons and try to repeat it year after year too, you get Better at noticing patterns. And once you finally figure out what that thing is or what it does, it's so much more gratifying because you're the one who did it. You weren't the first, but what does it matter? It's really empowering. And if you can do that, what else can you do? So having the patience to figure things out just by watching them do their thing, it's hard at first, but it's really cool. I try to do it with birds, too. I don't use the bird apps. I also don't see very well, so I don't think I'll ever be good with identifying birds. But, you know, it's still cool, still fun trying.

[Megan Scott]

I like the idea of, of putting up a little bit of friction to yourself trying to find out what something is when you're foraging or just walking around. Whereas instead of like looking at an app that tells you what it is right away, maybe you have to go to the library and check out a book and talk to a librarian or go to the library.

[Shannon Larson]

Go to the library.

[Megan Scott]

Or like, you may, or maybe you talk to somebody that you know who likes weird plants and want to see what they know about it.

[Shannon Larson]

Talk to somebody who also loves bird watching and say, this is what that bird looks like and see if you can kind of like pinpoint what that was.

[John Becker]

Well, and getting back to the, you know, kind of some of the inconsistent results that you can get from all of these, you know, identification services, you know, it maybe it breeds a certain healthy skepticism to, to some of it, you know, like being able to, you know, having all of that at your fingertips, you start just taking it for granted and trusting the results that you're getting from whatever kind of search you're using to find answers.

[Sarah Burr]

Yes. Just because a computer says a thing, whether it's an Internet or artificial intelligence, it doesn't mean it's true. I've noticed so many incorrect fruit facts online. One was cranberries are the only fruit native to North America. And I can name like 15, but it's on the Internet one place. And so you just see it repeated and repeated. And as a person who writes for the Internet, that's a good lesson for me that I try to double and triple check and find other sources to verify things. And if you can cross reference with various media. So this is on website, and then I saw this in a book and my friend told me about this. I mean, that would take forever, but if you're able to do that at some point, can really Help and actually I think can help you with your cooking. I love when people learn what I do, which is sort of like a cooking person. I would describe myself as they ask me what I like to cook, which nobody wants to hear the answer to that. I like to take leftovers and make things out of them. That answer is so disappointing to them. And so once they're disappointed by that answer, I'd say, well, what do you like to cook? And they'll tell me. And I'd say, well, how do you make this? Or where did you get the idea for that? And I just end up learning so much. I get to be in somebody else's kitchen in a way. And that is. That is so fun and special. It ends up helping me when I'm making up slow cooker recipes. And I think people love talking about cooking and they sometimes don't get to do it that much. So I like to be the person who can provide that for them when they ask me the question and don't like my answer.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I think part of creativity is like that interplay between, you know, people like getting ideas from other people or just, you know, I think it's easy to stew in your own juices and kind of go around and around about something. And then you talk to one person and you have your aha moment or you just think about it in a slightly different way or it adds another dimension.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah. Recipes used to go around from people talking to each other and sharing food with each other. And then newspapers were a way that people got recipes, especially if they couldn't afford cookbooks. And so that's a way things got spread around. But every time there's a new iteration. It's funny, it's almost like it closes some doors and it opens others. So I think about people who would normally never be making, I don't know, Bakewell Tart. And they saw a video of somebody making it online and they decided they're going to. And they might not ever make things again because they got really discouraged or they might be really into baking British things all of a sudden.

[Dirk Marshall]

Oh, hello. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about an easy way to enhance your meals. Whether they are a healthy vegan grain bowl or. Or that late night snack we'll pretend didn't happen the next day. And that easy way is Marshall's haute sauce. For 15 years, chef and cookbook author Sarah Marshall has been hand making and bottling these delicious sauces. She works directly with local farmers and highlights the lovely flavors of fresh seasonal produce. They're gluten free. There are no additives, dyes, waxes or binders. And they have mouth watering combinations like Serrano ginger, lemongrass or habanero carrot curry or even Whiskey Smoked ghost, which was featured on Hot Ones. So head on over to marshallshot sauce.com that's Marshall's H A u T E S a u c e.com and see all the available sauces and spice blends. Oh, that's right. Sarah's created spice packets by dehydrating and freeze drying actual produce so you can impart flavor to your food with more vegetables. But that's a story for another day. Find all of these delicious creations@marshallshot Sauce.com and enter Haute Joy. That's one word, capital H A U T E capital J.J. o Y one word at checkout for 20% off. That's haute joy at checkout for 20% off. And now back to the show.

[John Becker]

I did have a question about the size of this book. It's tiny. And thinking of where you were coming from when you started this project, what strategies you used to kind of decide on what to include in such a tiny volume. I mean, I know that there was kind of a prompt where it's like you should be addressing the subject from a mindfulness perspective, but it just seemed like such a challenge. We have the opposite problem where we're trying to be as comprehensive as possible, but there's also a tension there where we're trying to keep it within a certain page count and whatnot. But this seems like a totally different problem. And it seemed like it might be. Might present a lot of different questions.

[Sarah Burr]

Oh, I like this question. Because I'd already written a very expanded version of it previously. I had an idea of how to pare this down to the essentials, which I'm really bad at most of the time. I'm a bit of a maximalist. And also when I wrote this book, I was not very well. I'd had some health issues and needed to leave my job. And then I started getting a little bit better and this opportunity came my way. I didn't pursue it, but it was a good way for me to test out how to get back into writing. And honestly, when I wrote it, I couldn't even go outside hardly. So it was a way for me to access that at a time when I, when I couldn't. And the scope, the small scope, was actually quite a gift and the opposite of a challenge. And also, this is the last book in the pocket Nature series. They all have different authors and cover different topics. There's beach combing and mushroom hunting and tree hugging. They all have adorable names like that. Mine is the most adorable.

[John Becker]

Agreed.

[Sarah Burr]

And I was able to look at some of the other volumes and they all have their own personality, but the format is generally the same. They all have these little moments, which I forget what they're called now. Some kind of exercise. Let's see here.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, Activity.

[Sarah Burr]

There we go.

[Megan Scott]

This activity. That's it.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah. They have activities. It's a really hard word to remember. They have these activities that are prompts to get you out of your head. The way I see it, we spend so much time in our heads, and the more you go outside and you're looking at living things, the more these boundaries start blurring. And instead of feeling like this one single person wandering around and everything's about your own individuality, you realize you're just a living thing. And everything else is a living thing too. And it is so. It's such a relief. So the activities were a little bit of a starting point to take that giant concept and miniaturize it so you can process it a little better just by looking at a flower.

[John Becker]

I love fuzzy boundaries. It's great.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I loved the last activity in the book, which is lose your ego.

[John Becker]

Yeah, ego death. It's great.

[Megan Scott]

Wait, what book is am I reading right now? Oh, yeah. It's about fruit. And then. No, I mean, you're right, though, the making the boundaries a little fuzzy and feeling like you're just part. You're part of a bigger thing.

[Sarah Burr]

Yes. I think we all need that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I think we do need a lot more. Yeah.

[Sarah Burr]

Every single day. I still have to remind myself every single day. Because I guess we're so programmed to exist the way we. We have been.

[Megan Scott]

What is it about fruit that you think in particular helps get out of that space and into a. More like, I am part of this whole. And to lose your ego a little bit. Like, what about fruit?

[Sarah Burr]

Well, you can eat it.

[Megan Scott]

You can assimilate it.

[Sarah Burr]

Yes. And oftentimes it's delicious and sometimes it's bitter, but usually it's attractive to be quite vulgar. It's just the sex of the plant hanging out there in full view. How can you beat that? Plant sex gone.

[Shannon Larson]

It's also cool because it's like fruit involves so many other beings sometimes too, like bugs or birds or whatever it is. So it's just like this really cool mesh of all of those living things that when you go Outside and look at them. They're all kind of working together to create this delicious, yummy thing we get

[Megan Scott]

to enjoy and cook with. Yeah. And you're like out there harvesting or foraging with the birds and the bugs, the worms that helped create it, everything. It's pretty cool.

[Shannon Larson]

And they are pretty.

[John Becker]

If it was a different time of year, I would go outside right now.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah. There's not a bunch. You might have camellias blooming. I mean, it's not fruit, but it's pretty.

[Shannon Larson]

We have camellias, daffodils, those kinds of things. But no fruit yet.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, not yet. It'll happen. Yeah. I was greedily looking at all my fruit plants in the yard today. Just kind of rubbing my hands together like a little squirrel and thinking, when are they going to be ready?

[Shannon Larson]

My little blueberry bush is starting to have little leaves. So we're getting there.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it's happening. It's happening. Okay. Every week we answer a caller question. This week we're talking about five ingredient recipes, which I'm sure you'll be thrilled to hear about, Sarah. Dirk, can you please read the question?

[Dirk Marshall]

Can you give me your favorite, most simple to make joy of cooking recipes or recipes that have around five ingredients?

[Megan Scott]

And I say Sarah will be interested in this question because we both are contract workers for Simply Recipes.com, which really specializes in minimal ingredient recipes. Not all, but there's a lot on there. And I thought this was a really interesting question because it made me and John think about, like, what is this question really asking for?

[John Becker]

What is a 5 ingredient? What does that mean?

[Megan Scott]

What does that signify? Yeah, what does a five ingredient recipe signify? Because obviously it's a finite number of ingredients. But are we talking about something that's, you know, you can make in 30 minutes? Are we talking about. Or is it just the ingredients are the limitation?

[John Becker]

Yeah, I had a bunch of joke answers like sauerkraut, two ingredients.

[Megan Scott]

A ham.

[John Becker]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Baked country ham. We have a recipe for that.

[Megan Scott]

You just have to soak it for like a week.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

You just soak it for what, 48 hours? No big deal.

[Megan Scott]

One ingredient.

[John Becker]

Well, a few. Maybe three. Three ingredients.

[Megan Scott]

Also, this brings up the question, you know, does salt, pepper and oil count? Which I'll tell you, Simply Recipes does not. It does not count.

[Shannon Larson]

I've always wondered that.

[Megan Scott]

It doesn't count, but people don't like that. Can you speak to that a little, Sarah?

[Sarah Burr]

Yes, I've been moderating the comments on simple recipes for a total of five years and when people have feelings about ingredient, that's. That's one of the top things people like to get salty about. No pun intended.

[Shannon Larson]

I liked it.

[Sarah Burr]

What is unusual is I think people are drawn to. We call, I call them X ingredient recipes.

[Megan Scott]

Right.

[Sarah Burr]

I think people are drawn to them maybe to see how it can be pulled off, but because it very rarely can unless you pretend that salt, oil, pepper, and sometimes even other things. Oh, water, water. Those don't count toward the total. You can't, you can't really make that much unless it's sauerkraut and country ham. And I definitely, I don't think that's what this particular.

[Megan Scott]

I don't think they're looking for that either.

[John Becker]

Well, and you were making the point, Megan, like that you know, most of the stuff your grandmother cooks, you know.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yes. I was gonna say my grandmother's the queen of, you know, the X ingredient recipe. Because the way she cooks is if it's green beans, it's just green beans. It's green beans. Maybe salt, maybe ham. If there's like leftover ham. If it's corn, it's just corn and salt. Maybe cream. But like that's the most. So she. Her way of cooking is just cook the thing as simply as possible, usually. But that's how the odd casserole, but.

[John Becker]

Right. But it's always in like a quote unquote meat and three context.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

I would say her cooking is like meat and three kind of driven, which means like there's a piece of meat and then there's three vegetables and maybe a starch or like a roll or something. But a very cut and dry way of cooking everything, which I think is totally a valid way of cooking stuff. You can just cook the thing and have it simple. But we did compile some. A list of recipes. We're not just gonna talk about the philosophy of the five ingredient recipe. John, do you wanna start? You have so many.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, but I, I was, you know, ish. 5 ish to 6 ish ingredients. I, I did not count salt and pepper or oil. And then wishy washy about garnishes.

[Megan Scott]

Garnishes can be left off, I think. Yeah.

[John Becker]

But the non joke answers that I have kimchi fried rice.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, yeah, I had that one down too. That's a really good. That one's a really good simple recipe. And I love that uses leftover rice because we always had that. And you can. It has bacon in it, but you could use Spam or you could not use any meat or you could use like leftover roast pork or whatever you have around.

[John Becker]

Yeah, no, whatever you have around, indeed. No, also not to, not to hearken back too, too fast to something that we featured recently, but that freeke with greens, chickpeas and halloumi, that is like an edge case. Like, you know, that's we're talking 6ish, but I feel like that's really simple and it's also got, you know, a pretty svelte's ingredient list.

[Shannon Larson]

So we also one of our joy scouts recipes. What I wrote down was that grapes and sausages dish, which I thought was fantastic. It was delicious and it's so easy. I think it was literally five ingredients.

[Megan Scott]

I think it had even less.

[Shannon Larson]

I think it was so simple.

[Megan Scott]

Sausage, grapes, roast berry, and optional balsamic vinegar.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I wrote it down. I was like, that's a great option as something that feels more elegant than you would expect it to be in like the amount of ingredients that came into the dish.

[John Becker]

Yeah, I specifically didn't include that one and several others because I felt like one of the kind of like unspoken assumptions about the five ingredient recipe is also that it has to have like kind of a one pot element or it has to at least combine like a carb.

[Shannon Larson]

And you could add couscous to the grapes and sausage. And I think that would be five ingredients probably.

[Megan Scott]

Or just have bread.

[John Becker]

True.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, okay.

[John Becker]

Why not?

[Megan Scott]

That's an interesting assumption though, that you think it should be like a main.

[John Becker]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm not clear on the genre. Speaking of genre, this is like a bonafide genre of cookbook. There are over 200 titles that have five ingredient. Like either in the title of the book or in the subtitle of the book. I wish I thought was there's a draw to it. I felt like that that was a lot though.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, that's a lot. I also had down tuna or salmon poke because that's very simple. You can kind of complicate it if you want, but at its heart, it's a super simple thing to make. And you just need some rice and then Becker burgers. So Becker burgers are John's dad's way of making. Could you talk about this? You're the one who has eaten a million of them.

[John Becker]

Yeah, no, I've. I've eaten a lot of them. Yeah. How to describe it? They're just. They're pan fried burgers. They are big and they are not designed to go in a bun. It's more of like if you are going to serve it like with bread of any kind. It would be like a toast open face situation because there's pan juices that get made in the process. And it's like a medium rare burger. So you have to. You want to be like pretty picky about where you're getting your. Your ground beef and stuff. But. But yeah, he would make that all the time. It was definitely like a weeknight situation for him. And I really like it with, with Mac and cheese and, you know, and maybe some really garlicky and buttery broccoli. That's my personal how I would serve it.

[Megan Scott]

And that's a really. Those are surprisingly delicious burgers. They have like, once you've seared it or browned it, you add soy sauce, port and black pepper. I think that or no Tabasco.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Dash, come on.

[Megan Scott]

That's like Ethan's. That's Ethan Becker's like signature is if there's soy sauce and pour it into basco in it. It's probably his recipe.

[John Becker]

Yeah, that's his signature triumvirate of ingredients.

[Megan Scott]

Can you think of an ingredient someone could substitute for the port if they don't have? Because I feel like that's not a common thing that you would just have around. I feel like any kind of liquid, plus maybe a little bit of vinegar, like a touch of vinegar perhaps to kind of.

[John Becker]

You kind of have some sweetness in there. Whatever you got.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, balsamic vinegar maybe. Yeah. Sherry. Everyone has sherry around.

[John Becker]

Yeah. You know,

[Sarah Burr]

maybe you could do. This is going to sound crazy, but I think it would work if you had some kind of wine ish alcohol and then a little bit of fruit juice and then apple cider vinegar or red wine vinegar or something. So you would have the sweetness but also the grapey, winey fermentiness. Yeah, that might work. I really like the sound of these.

[Megan Scott]

They're great. They were kind of panned by the New York Times, but they hadn't made the recipe, so they don't know what they're talking about. Respectfully.

[Sarah Burr]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

Make the burgers. Kim.

[Shannon Larson]

Yes.

[Megan Scott]

Another recipe I had written down was orechetta with sausage and broccoli rabe. That is a great recipe and super easy. It's just like Italian sausage, garlic, broccoli rabe, Horaceta and pecorino Romano.

[John Becker]

All the requirements that I, you know,

[Megan Scott]

all these self imposed requirements to make this even more difficult. So a good place to look. There are tons of these recipes. They're kind of buried because it's such a big book. But if you look in, look under quick recipes in the entertaining and menus chapter. There's a whole list of easy, quick recipes. And a lot of. Not all of them are going to be five ingredients or fewer, but a lot of them are just some ones

[John Becker]

that I really like that kind of fit the vibe, at least. Shoyu chicken, very, very good.

[Megan Scott]

I counted that it had like six ingredients and I was bummed.

[John Becker]

Ish. We're going with ish and fish boulanger. You know, that's delicious and sounds fancy,

[Megan Scott]

but is quite simple and very good.

[John Becker]

Yeah, Pearl onions is like the fanciest thing about that.

[Megan Scott]

You could probably not use those, though.

[John Becker]

Yeah, no, you could. You could definitely, like, chop, you know, do biggish chunks of onion or have some shallots.

[Megan Scott]

Frozen pearl onions. That's fine.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Lasagna that totaled up as 5. I thought that was hilarious. That's kind of. That's an edge case. It could be a joke. It could. It could be real. It depends.

[Megan Scott]

It's easy because you're making many servings, so then you have leftover lasagna.

[John Becker]

That's true.

[Megan Scott]

Which is good. And you. It's good frozen, as Shannon could probably attest, because I think you're going to eat some later.

[Shannon Larson]

We're eating your frozen lasagna.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Comes in handy.

[Shannon Larson]

I didn't want to cook tonight because I had the podcast and I was like, we've got that delicious lasagna.

[Megan Scott]

There you go.

[Shannon Larson]

And we're trying to eat more vegetarian this week, so.

[Megan Scott]

Perfect. Perfect.

[John Becker]

Nice.

[Megan Scott]

And for this week's Joy Scouts recipe, we wanted to stay on theme, so we picked a five ingredient recipe. And it's the quick peanut butter and jelly thumbprints on page 785. It's the simplest peanut butter cookie recipe you can imagine. It barely has any flour in it. And then you can use whatever jam you want in the thumbprint. But they're so easy and quick to make and delicious. So that recipe is on page 785 in the 2019 edition. If you make it, please tag us hejoyofcooking on Instagram. We would love to see what you make. If you have a cooking question or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We would love to hear from you, Dirk. Can you please play the next week's caller question?

[Sarah Burr]

Hi, I'm calling for the Joy of Cooking podcast. My name is Delaney, I'm from Seattle and I love a good caramelized onion. We have a Seattle dog here that caramelized onions typically go on, but I'm curious about some other recipes that caramelized onions would be really great with. Love to hear back from you guys. I love the podcast. Thanks. Bye. Bye.

[Megan Scott]

All right, so next week we'll talk about how to use caramelized onions. How do you how to not use them?

[Shannon Larson]

I know.

[John Becker]

I was actually about ready to make that very same bagels comment.

[Megan Scott]

They definitely would go on a bagel.

[Shannon Larson]

Yep.

[John Becker]

Yeah, they fall under the everything category.

[Megan Scott]

What is everybody making this week, Week or thinking about?

[Shannon Larson]

I'm eating your lasagna tonight. That's all I'm thinking about right now.

[Megan Scott]

Are you making a salad with.

[Shannon Larson]

Yes, I've been making this chopped salad. I found the. It's. The dressing recipe is so simple. I found it. I think it was probably on Tick Tock and then I saw it on Instagram, and it's just a whole lemon, olive oil, salt, pepper, fresh minced grated garlic, and a splash of distilled white vinegar. And I've been putting it on all of my salads. It's so good, I can't stop eating it. So that's what we're.

[Megan Scott]

So the whole lemon goes in the. It's just like you juice.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, just juice. The whole lemon olive oil as much as your heart wants. Salt, pepper, grated garlic, and a splash of white distilled vinegar. And it makes it so fresh and delicious. So in general, I'm just trying to eat more veggies because I was in the Midwest and traveling for a week, so.

[Megan Scott]

Understand that's real.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. But thank you for the lasagna.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, you're welcome. You're so welcome. What about you, Sarah? What are you thinking about other than lentil bolognese?

[Sarah Burr]

Oh, gosh. I just need to get past it. Okay. I have a recipe for bunny chow. I'm a member of the Rancho Gordo Bean Club, and a couple months ago, black garbanzo beans came in the shipment. I like them. They're a little toothier than regular chickpeas. Garbanzos. And because they're so dark, I think visually you need to be strategic with them. But in the book East Mira. What's her name?

[Megan Scott]

Mira Soda.

[Sarah Burr]

Yes. Yes. She has a recipe for bunny chow, which is almost like a chana masala in a hollowed out half loaf of white bread. It's a South African thing.

[Megan Scott]

Ooh.

[Sarah Burr]

And I've always wanted to make it. And hers has black chickpeas. I can't get that kind of bread here. I don't need to bake a whole loaf of cottony white bread to have this supposedly easy dinner that I'm gonna make with these dried chickpeas. I'll have to soak for, like, three days and then pressure cook. So it seems like it'd be a simple little meal, but it won't be. I'll probably never make it. But every week I have a list of things I'm gonna make. Bunny chow.

[Megan Scott]

Put that at the top of the list. That's like me with certain items in the crisper if they last a long time. Like kohlrabi, man. Like, I got to do something with kohlrabi this week. I put it on my list, and then it doesn't. It just continues to sit there. Good thing it lasts forever. John, what are you excited about?

[John Becker]

Making kanji. It's. It's still. Still cold enough for. For kanji time. And our friend Anna shared her hack of basically just briefly soaking rice and pre. Portioning it into containers and then freezing it. And then that actually cuts down on the. On the simmering time, because when the

[Megan Scott]

water freezes, it kind of breaks. Starts to break the grain down a little bit or.

[John Becker]

Yeah. When it thaws.

[Megan Scott]

When it thaws. Yeah. Yeah.

[John Becker]

So. So yeah, we. We actually. I froze a bunch of this rice that we were not going through fast enough. It's like some of that haika rice. Looking forward to various permutations on that.

[Megan Scott]

I'm looking forward to that as well. I'm gonna keep testing recipes. We're still testing recipes in the soup chapter. So I've got an escarole and white bean soup on my list for this week. And we cooked up a big. A bunch of the. We're also in the bean club, Sarah. All the best people. No, I'm kidding. There's a silly waiting list for it. It feels a little ridiculous because we've been on it for years, and so we didn't have to go through the struggle of, like, waiting. But we got these Peruvian limas, the jumbo Peruvian limas. They're giant and they're so good.

[Sarah Burr]

They can.

[Megan Scott]

They remind me of the royal Corona beans, but they're just big and meaty and, like, they do really, really well. And, like, saucy preparation. I don't know. They're just. They're great. So I'm gonna put those in there. But it'll be an escrow and white bean soup for. Any white bean can be in there. Any bean can be in there. So Yeah, I got Soup on the Brain. And Sarah, before we wrap, where can listeners follow you?

[Sarah Burr]

Only on Instagram. I'm a mono social media person. Sausageitarian is my handle and we'll put

[Megan Scott]

that in the show notes, which I

[Shannon Larson]

think is really funny by the way.

[Megan Scott]

Really good. Thanks for listening to the Joy of Cooking Podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by subscribing to the show and leaving us a review. Follow us at joyofcooking.substack.com and on Instagram at the Joy of Cooking. Stay tuned for next week where we'll talk about caramelized onions. And don't forget to make this Week's recipe quick PB&J thumb prints on page 785. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the kitchen. Our number is 503-395-8858. That's 503-395-8858.

[Shannon Larson]

And we couldn't do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation Production House. Thank you to Dave Dreske, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Dirk Marshall, our producer.

[Megan Scott]

If you love the stories we bring you each week, please consider supporting us on Patreon. As an independent media company, your support is absolutely essential.

[Sarah Burr]

It allows us to continue creating high

[Megan Scott]

quality professional episodes that amplify the voices of women, small business owners, writers, artists and creatives and keep their stories free from commercial pressure. By becoming a Patreon member, you're not just supporting us, you're investing in the future of independent Media. Please visit patreon.com thejoyofcreationproductionhouse to join our community today. Thank you for listening and supporting our podcast Dreams.