We Are Joined At The Table With Sarah Marshall: Inspired By Pickles

Summary

The Joy of Cooking Podcast: "We Are Joined At The Table With Sarah Marshall: Inspired By Pickles"

Release Date: December 11, 2024
Hosts: Shannon Larson, Megan Scott, John Becker
Guest: Sarah Marshall
Producer: Sarah Marshall

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast, hosts Shannon Larson, Megan Scott, and John Becker welcome special guest Sarah Marshall. The discussion centers around the versatile world of pickles, sharing personal cooking experiences, canning techniques, and insights into Sarah’s thriving hot sauce business. Throughout the episode, the hosts and guest delve into favorite recipes, kitchen mishaps, and practical tips for maintaining crispy homemade pickles.

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Host Introductions and Personal Updates

The episode begins with Shannon Larson welcoming listeners and introducing the co-hosts:

• Megan Scott shares her role as a co-author of the 2019 edition of The Joy of Cooking and humorously mentions her prowess in making cabbage chow chow.

  "[...] I make a mean cabbage chow chow." (01:00)

• John Becker, the fourth-generation steward of the cookbook, humorously admits to impulsively purchasing fancy dried chilies.

  "I sharpen the knives, restock our spice jars, and impulse purchase fancy dried chilies." (01:09)

The conversation lightens as the hosts discuss their abundance of dried chilies:

• Megan:

  "Yeah. Make them smaller. Make the large things smaller." (01:37)

• John:

  "It's sealed. What? They're not getting stale." (01:54)

Shannon shares a recent cooking triumph:

"We took carrots and potatoes from our CSA and cooked them for a little while. Very simple. Olive oil, salt, pepper. And then we added cabbage on top of that, and then chicken legs with grainy mustard on top. And then we just stuck it in the oven and it was honestly, really, really good." (02:05)

The hosts express their love for cabbage, highlighting its versatility:

• Shannon:

  "I really feel like people are missing out sometimes on how versatile it is and how great it is." (02:39)

• Megan:

  "It gets all soft and buttery." (02:50)

Guest Introduction: Sarah Marshall and Her Business

Sarah Marshall joins the show, stepping out from her usual behind-the-scenes role as a producer. She introduces herself and her businesses:

"My main business is Marshall's hot sauce. So I make hot sauces with ingredients from the Portland farmer's market, and all of my recipes are based on canning and preserving." (06:54)

Sarah elaborates on her popular hot sauce flavors, emphasizing the use of local, seasonal ingredients:

"Everyone thinks it's, like, this super unique recipe, and how did I come up with these flavors? But really, it's just because, like, all those things grow at the same time." (07:35)

She discusses her innovative approach to packaging:

"I want it to look like a wine bottle. So I have a label company that prints all the fancy wine labels in town. And so they print our labels." (12:56)

Sarah also introduces her canning book, Preservation Pantry. Modern Canning from Root to Top and Ste Decor, highlighting its comprehensive approach to preserving and utilizing produce:

"So if you're making pickled carrots, there's a recipe for daikon lotus root carrot pickles. And then you use the carrot tops for a pesto [...]"() (15:52)

Tasting Segment: Pickles

The episode transitions to the tasting segment, themed around pickles. John and Megan present their homemade cornichons, while Sarah brings an assortment of her homemade pickles:

"So we have fermented pickles and water bath canned vinegar pickles. I have these shallots from my cookbook, rose wine pickled shallots [...]." (15:04)

Sarah showcases her variety of pickles, including:

• Fermented Pickles
• Water Bath Canned Vinegar Pickles
• Rose Wine Pickled Shallots
• Purple Basil Brined Cherry Tomatoes
• Beet Stem Pickles

The hosts and guest discuss the aesthetics and flavors of the pickles, sharing their appreciation for the craftsmanship involved.

Main Topic Discussion: Pickling Tips and Techniques

The core of the episode revolves around tips for making crunchy pickles. John shares valuable advice:

"With cucumbers, you definitely want to cut off the blossom end. There's some enzymes that are present in the blossom end of the cucumber that will end up actually softening the cucumber." (44:03)

Megan introduces the low-temperature canning method:

"Instead of putting them in a boiling water bath, you heat your water bath to 180 degrees. And then you put your pickles, the jars in. Once it comes back up to 180 degrees, you keep them there for 30 minutes." (44:42)

Sarah emphasizes the importance of following USDA-approved methods and shares additional tips:

"One of the tips that I have in my book for keeping pickles crispy is that you can use grape leaves and put the grape leaves in the jar." (47:10)

She also discusses the significance of recipe reliability:

"When I wrote my canning book, I took all the recipes in and had them tested in a food lab. So we make sure that the acidity is well below what it is even recommended." (48:39)

The hosts encourage listeners to pursue canning with confidence, highlighting:

"Don't be scared. If you feel like you're not confident in what you're doing, then maybe you're just not ready to do it." (51:17)

Audience Q&A: Tips for Crunchy Pickles

The episode features a caller question regarding tips for making canned or refrigerated pickles crunchy versus soft. The hosts and Sarah provide comprehensive answers:

• Removing the Blossom End: As mentioned by John, trimming about a quarter-inch from the blossom end prevents enzymatic softening.

• Using Grape Leaves:

  "But sometimes the problem with that, that is that grape leaves are way after cucumber season. So I wrote a recipe for canning grape leaves." (47:12)

• Low-Temperature Canning:

  "It's not doing anything for botulism. It's just killing off anything that's going to spoil your food." (53:38)

• Quick Pickles:

  "Quick pickles are easy way to do it. [...] A quick pickle is just [...] you pour, like, a hot brine over it. That's usually got salt and some spices and some vinegar and some water." (51:16)

Concluding Remarks and Teasers for Next Episode

As the episode wraps up, the hosts tease the next week's topic—salmon recipes—and encourage listeners to engage via the hotline for questions, stories, or cooking joys.

Shannon:

"Thank you for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. [...] Next week's topic comes from our caller." (55:36)

Megan:

"We could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Kayleen Beach, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer and guest." (58:53)

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Key Takeaways

1. Maintaining Crunchiness in Pickles:

   • Trim the blossom end of cucumbers.
   • Utilize grape leaves or oak leaves to preserve texture.
   • Adopt low-temperature canning methods for consistent results.

2. Innovative Pickling Techniques:

   • Experiment with various brines and fermentation processes.
   • Incorporate diverse ingredients like seaweed and basil-infused vinegar for unique flavors.

3. Sarah Marshall’s Approach to Hot Sauce:

   • Focus on seasonal, locally-sourced ingredients.
   • Emphasize preservative techniques that enhance flavor without relying on artificial additives.

4. Family Cooking Dynamics:

   • Balancing diverse tastes within a household can lead to creative and satisfying meal solutions.
   • Encouraging collaboration and mutual respect in meal planning fosters a positive cooking environment.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Shannon Larson on Cabbage Versatility:

  "I really feel like people are missing out sometimes on how versatile it is and how great it is." (02:39)

• John Becker on Low-Temperature Canning:

  "It's telling you this is the temperature it's at, so you don't have to question it." (52:34)

• Sarah Marshall on Pickling Philosophy:

  "I'm telling the story of Oregon agriculture in every bottle of sauce because that is what I do when I walk the farmer's market." (12:07)

• Megan Scott on Canning Confidence:

  "Just do it. Don't be stressed." (51:48)

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Conclusion

This episode of The Joy of Cooking Podcast offers a rich exploration of pickling techniques, the importance of preserving local flavors, and the joys of collaborative cooking. With Sarah Marshall’s expertise in hot sauce production and the hosts’ personal anecdotes, listeners are equipped with practical tips and inspired to experiment in their own kitchens. The episode beautifully intertwines culinary passion with community values, embodying the legacy of The Joy of Cooking.

Transcript

[Sarah Marshall]

Sa.

[Shannon Larson]

Hello, and welcome to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Each week we set the table for a discussion about recipes and stories from the authors of the Joy of Cooking, kitchen victories and misadventures, and most importantly, what we are cooking and eating right now. We're glad you've joined us at the table today. I'm Shannon Larson, home cook, ardent Joy of Cooking user and fan, and pickled jalapeno, enthusiastic.

[Megan Scott]

I'm Megan Scott, co author of the 2019 Joy of Cooking. I'm a food editor by day and avoider of dish duty by night, but I make a mean cabbage chow chow.

[John Becker]

I'm John Becker, 4th Generation Co author and steward of the Joy of Cooking, America's oldest family run cookbook. I sharpen the knives, restock our spice jars, and impulse purchase fancy dried chilies.

[Shannon Larson]

That's very true.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, it really does. Yeah. We actually have so many dried chilies in our kitchen right now, we need to.

[Shannon Larson]

Problem.

[John Becker]

We need to grind them up.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Make them smaller. Make the large things smaller.

[Shannon Larson]

I just imagine you, like, opening up your pantry and just like, they just all fall out.

[Megan Scott]

That's kind of. I mean, sort of.

[John Becker]

Yeah, there's. Well, you know, there's a bucket.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, there's a bucket. Shannon.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Becker]

It's. It's sealed. What? They're not getting stale.

[Megan Scott]

Can't resist. So, yeah. What have. What have you been up to this week, Shannon?

[Shannon Larson]

Let's see. Work, work, and work. And then also really made a great just one pot meal last night where we took carrots and potatoes from our csa and I cooked them for a little while. Very simple. Olive oil, salt, pepper. And then we added cabbage on top of that, and then chicken legs with grainy mustard on top. And then we just stuck it in the oven and it was honestly, really, really good.

[Megan Scott]

That sounds awesome.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like cabbage is. It deserves more love.

[Megan Scott]

I love cabbage. I love cabbage. Enough for everyone.

[Shannon Larson]

It's just. I really feel like people are missing out sometimes on how versatile it is and how great it is. When it's warm and kind of gooey from like some kind of meat situation, it's just delicious.

[Megan Scott]

It gets all soft and buttery.

[John Becker]

Cabbages. Cabbage is definitely getting more attention, but is it enough? I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

No, it's probably not.

[Shannon Larson]

All right, what about you guys?

[Megan Scott]

Well, I harvested my horseradish this week.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I did see something about the horseradish.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. So I didn't actually. I kind of forget that I have horseradish in my garden because I just bought it because. Because it's pretty. I like it. I think it's pretty. It's a pretty plant. And you can't kill it. It's impossible to kill. It doesn't care if it gets watered or not. It survives the winter just fine.

[John Becker]

But it also spreads.

[Megan Scott]

It does spread. So we, we have it planted in a, one of those half like wine barrel things so it won't spread. But I, I wanted to make fire cider this week, and one of the ingredients is horseradish. And I was like, oh, I have to run to the store. Oh, wait. And then I looked it up online and this is the perfect time of year to harvest horseradish. Right when the of start to die back. So we dug down and found a couple of big root. There was a couple like really good sized ones. And then I used that for the fire cider and John made some pickled horseradish.

[John Becker]

Yeah, it was enough. We harvested enough for like a full recipe of our pickled horseradish from the book.

[Megan Scott]

Describe.

[John Becker]

I had a little mishap because I was a dum dum. Yeah, I mean, I knew better. I graded the horseradish I did it with. I figured just. I was using a different kind of box grater than I had used previously. It's kind of, it's got the same kind of sharpness as a, as a microplane does, but it's, you know, slightly, it's not nearly as fine as your typical microplane. So I don't know. For some reason I figured that because it was a sharper grater, it wouldn't go spraying horseradish fumes everywhere. And boy, was I wrong.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, no.

[John Becker]

Fantastic job of doing that. And I, I swear to God, I probably, you know, stopped what I was doing, cried a little, got some air and came back and tried to do it again.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh my gosh.

[John Becker]

But yeah, that. It was dumb. I mean, even in the book, like, I, I remember I rewrote the headnote for that recipe saying you should be using a food processor with the disc grater attachment. And I just didn't take my own advice. It was really silly.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I mean, I, I was actually gone when John was doing it. And as soon as I walked in the house, I was like, what is that smell? It was so strong. It's just like the volatile oils from the horseradish are just very strong. But it's so delicious. And I'm really excited that we have.

[Shannon Larson]

What do you use pickled horseradish for?

[John Becker]

I mean, what don't. I mean it's obviously, it's, you know, like, I feel like it's essential if you're going to be serving corned beef.

[Megan Scott]

Bloody Marys.

[John Becker]

Bloody Marys.

[Megan Scott]

Also like mixing it. Well, like, last night, we had borscht for dinner and use freshly grated. We did use freshly grated, but if we don't have the fresh horseradish root, we'll use the pickled. Or mix the pickled stuff into sour cream and then serve that on top of the borsch. Oh, yum. But, yeah, it goes really well with beets.

[John Becker]

Of course. Yes.

[Shannon Larson]

Sounds delicious.

[Megan Scott]

I'm excited to have my. My sinuses opened.

[Shannon Larson]

You're gonna be so healthy this winter.

[Megan Scott]

So healthy. And today we would like to welcome our guest, Sarah Marshall onto the show. Sarah happens to be the producer of our podcast, but she's gracing us with her lovely presence today on this episode. Thank you for joining us, Sarah.

[Sarah Marshall]

I'm so excited because all I ever want to do is talk. I don't get to. I have to just sit here and listen to you guys, and then I want. And then I have to tell you all the things I was thinking after we're done recording. It's really hard. It's a hard life to live.

[Shannon Larson]

I can tell when I look over sometimes I'm like, oh, Sarah wants to say something.

[Sarah Marshall]

And I'm like, I'm going to tell you later. You can just see my excited eyes. That's all I'm allowed to do. Yeah. I'm excited to chat with you guys today.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome. Yeah. All we want to do most of the time is just talk about food. So I feel like this is a very good, very good setup.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, it's perfect. It's perfect. Except for this time, I get to talk. So ask me questions. I'm ready.

[Megan Scott]

Well, Sarah, can you tell us a bit about yourself and about your business?

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. My main business is Marshall's hot sauce. So I make hot sauces with ingredients from the Portland farmer's market, and all of my recipes are based on canning and preserving. So I. My sauce flavors come from whatever's growing at the same time. So right now, you know, it's. We only have a certain time of year that we can really get good peppers in in Portland, Oregon. So my flavors sort of come from that. So, like, one of our most popular ones is serrano ginger lemongrass. And everyone thinks it's, like, this super unique recipe, and how did I come up with these flavors? But really, it's just because, like, all those things grow at the Same time. So we get our ginger and lemongra breasts and serranos and tomatillos from the same farm. They all come from Groundwork Organic Farm. So I don't necessarily, I can't really take credit for that because I feel like it's really. The farmers grew all that stuff and then I just cook it and make.

[Megan Scott]

You just made it really delicious.

[Sarah Marshall]

Drink that bottle.

[Shannon Larson]

So good.

[Sarah Marshall]

Thank you. It's most popular, probably. That's my main business. So I do farmers markets, sell to local grocery stores, things like that. And then why we're here now is that I now have a second business, which is a podcast production company. I've had my podcast, the Meaningful Marketplace, for quite a few years. We started it in 2019, so I've taken over producing that. And then we produced my husband's podcast, which is vhs. That's a movie themed podcast. And then now we're doing the Joy of Cooking podcast. So super fun.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

And so it's my first time as a producer for your show, and I just feel like, super excited to do it and to like, bring this all to life.

[Megan Scott]

That's so awesome. Thank you.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I think it's really fun. I'm, I'm excited that this is happening and that people can hear about all of you because you're my favorite people. And so we get to meet every week, which is wonderful too.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

So, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Cool. Can you tell us, like, what's your favorite hot sauce to make?

[Sarah Marshall]

Oh, that's hard because I have like 27 flavors, but I do have. No, I definitely have a few I really like. So I like the ones that are really interesting. So we have one called chard chive dulse. And so I dehydrate dulse seaweed, which is this beautiful purple seaweed. And we have a seaweed farmer, Chuck from Oregon, seaweed. And he grows the dulse in tanks by the ocean. And then he brings it to me in big drippy ocean bags.

[Shannon Larson]

I definitely want to come at some point to see that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

And then I dehydrate it and then I use it in this sauce that has charred garlic chives from the farmer's market that we char over our grill. And then it has organic miso and liquid aminos. And so all the things that would kind of go into like a stir fry or sauteed greens or things like that. But the idea was that you'd have all this flavor so you wouldn't have to open a bunch of other bottles and things. So that that one's pretty fun. It's, it's probably, I have, you know, one kitchen helper and it's probably everyone's least favorite one to me.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, really?

[Sarah Marshall]

Because there's so many steps. It's like.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Also drying. Like we've bought that dulse before and dried it ourselves and, and you kind of have to tease it apart and spread it out on the dehydrator tray. So like that takes some time.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, there's a video of me doing it. We have to, you know, we wash it all too. And, and yeah, it, it's. That's just one step. Many, many, many steps. We like pickle all these seeds and stuff. So we pickle like mustard seeds, black pepper, some dried chilies, all this stuff and then we grind it up and then we run it through a sieve. That's everybody's least favorite kitchen job.

[Megan Scott]

Because doing the sieve, it's fine if.

[Sarah Marshall]

You'Re doing it at home.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

For like one little handful. But we're doing it into huge buckets and it's like you're doing it for like two or three hours. And so everyone gets kind of mad whenever I come up with a new recipe that invol process. But also it's like makes the best hot sauce. It makes the texture really velvety and smooth. And so I always say this is my last one that I'll have that step for. But then I.

[Shannon Larson]

You're such a liar.

[Sarah Marshall]

I lie. Not on purpose. I really, my intent is to stop. But yeah, so that's one of my favorite ones to make. And I also really like making the bird's eye Basil 1. Because we make a basil infused vinegar. We use leaks as the base, which as you guys know, cuz you live here in Oregon, leaks are like available all the time, which is why I use them. The farmers always have them for us. Us, and, but they're hard to prep, you know, so it's like one of those things that maybe people wouldn't commercially find. So that's why I like to do it. And, and so it just has this really velvety texture from the, from the leeks. It's like beautiful. So those are, those are my two fave to make.

[Megan Scott]

I love your sauces because I feel like they're a really good representation of just the huge variety of, of amazing vegetables and, and produce that we can get here. Because I feel like that's, that's one of my favorite things about living here. The produce is so good, the farms are so great. Everything is delicious. But I feel like your sauces are so diverse in flavor profiles and ingredients, and I think it really represents kind of what the farmers here are growing.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, that's what I always say when people ask me to, like, describe my business or, you know, I've taken a lot of business classes so that you have to have, like a one liner, an elevator pitch, or something like that. So mine is always that. I'm telling the story of Oregon agriculture in every bottle of sauce because that. That's what I do when I walk the farmer's market, and I'm like, oh, what's going on? It also makes it so that I know everything that's happening at the farmer's market. So, you know, every market, I, like, walk around, see what farmers have, see what's growing, see what's cool and weird. I try to post something about it. I then try to make something with it. And then I just kind of keep it in the back of my mind for, like, oh, someday I could do something with this, you know? And so it's just like, really me paying attention to what's happening at our farmer's markets. And then I put it in the bottle for people.

[Shannon Larson]

Very beautiful bottle.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Packaging is great, too.

[Sarah Marshall]

Thank you. Important. I. That's the other thing about that is, like, when. When you take business classes, you know, they tell you to, like, you have to monetize everything and figure out what's really worth the money. So that was a huge, important piece to me was like, everyone kept being like, you can't use this expensive bottle in this expensive label. And I was like, yeah, but that's. That's important. I want it to look like a wine bottle. So I have. You know, there's a label company that prints our labels, that prints all the fancy wine labels in town. And so they print our labels. And, you know, I. I just had to stick with it. And so I feel like, you know, 15 years in, I was right.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. This stands out.

[Shannon Larson]

It does. And it makes such a beautiful gift. I've gotten your sauces for so many people. It is special because they're all delicious, but also the presentation of it just, like, looks very special.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I got my dad a set, and I think he thought they were so fancy that he was afraid to use them. I was like, no, just know.

[Sarah Marshall]

Eat it. Say that all the time. They're like, I just like to look at it, like, yeah, but eat it.

[John Becker]

I mean, it should be easy to go through. There's no regulator on most of those Bottles.

[Megan Scott]

I know, I know.

[Sarah Marshall]

I'm like, pour it out, chug it. Come back for more.

[Megan Scott]

So we're going to move into our tasting segment for this week. This week, our theme is pick. Each show has a weekly topic, and this week, our theme is pickles. So to get us into the pickle mood, we're going to try homemade cornichon that John and I made. And then we also have, like, a whole pickle platter here from Sarah because she makes all the pickles. Apparently.

[Shannon Larson]

There are so many pickled things in front of us right now.

[Megan Scott]

It's a rainbow.

[Sarah Marshall]

I know. Well, you guys said pickles, and I just went downstairs. So the other thing to say is that we live above our commercial kitchen where we make sauce, and our podcast studio is our kitchen table. And all these pickles were just downstairs. So you said pickles, and I just came up with armfuls of pickles from the commercial kitchen.

[Shannon Larson]

And we all love pickles.

[Sarah Marshall]

I knew you wouldn't be mad about it. Here we are.

[Megan Scott]

Can you describe what the pickles are?

[Sarah Marshall]

Yes. So I thought it would be fun because the question is about how to keep pickles crisp. So anyway, I thought I would bring different kinds of ways that things are pickled. So I have fermented pickles and water bath canned vinegar pickles. I have. These are shallots from my cookbook. Those are rose wine pickled shallots, which I actually think I've made with both of you guys. Yeah, we had a big canning party. And then this is purple basil brined cherry tomatoes. That's also from my book. And then this is kind of a riff on one of the recipes in my book where you use beet stems or pieces of beet to make your pickles purple. So pickled veggies.

[Megan Scott]

So pretty.

[Sarah Marshall]

So I thought I would just bring different techniques, you know, I guess you.

[Shannon Larson]

Should mention your book.

[Sarah Marshall]

Oh, yeah, almost forgot, Almost forgot. I wrote a canning book about six years ago, and it's called Preservation Pantry. It has the longest title in the world. You ready for it? Preservation Pantry. Modern Canning from Root to Top and ste Decor. So it has all the steps for water bath canning, but then also ways that you can use all of the produce. So if you're making pickled carrots, there's a recipe for daikon lotus root carrot pickles. And then you use the carrot tops for a pesto, or if you're doing the bourbon brine cherries and use the stones to make cherry stone bitters. So you're using all that.

[Megan Scott]

So smart.

[Sarah Marshall]

So you're getting your money's worth with all that great organic produce you're buying. I love it.

[Shannon Larson]

I use it.

[Megan Scott]

It's such a good book. It's beautiful, too. I remember when we did the photo shoot for that book.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yes. You're in the park, you're in it. We're physically inside of my book, and everyone thinks it's me. Oh, really? Well, so I cut all. I cut my head out of all the photos in the book. I noticed that and also Megan's. So people are like, how come your head's cut off in all of them? And like, you look so good, like holding all those pickles. And I was like, that's not even me. But nobody can tell the difference.

[Megan Scott]

Well, I'm gonna dig into. I might try the fermented cucumber pickle first.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. Is that one the fermented. I actually didn't mark it or anything. They look.

[Megan Scott]

You pointed at this one. As for. We'll see. We'll see how it goes.

[Sarah Marshall]

You'll be able to taste right away. Is that fermented? Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

So with the collar question, I just thought that that's sometimes a good way to keep pickles crispy because you're not actually heating them.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. Every summer we make. I almost said sour patch pickles. I don't know what is going on. We make half sour pickles. So we just ferment. We get like the medium sized cucumbers and then just ferment them in a really simple brine with like, garlic.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Three to four inches. Yeah. Just trim off the blossom end, which.

[Megan Scott]

Well, we're gonna get to that. Don't. Don't get ahead of yourself.

[John Becker]

Sorry.

[Megan Scott]

Don't give away the secret to crispy pickle.

[Shannon Larson]

I know. I learned that from you. But yeah.

[Megan Scott]

And then. Yeah, these. I'm about to eat one of the cornichon that we brought. Sarah, do you have a good source for these tiny cucumbers that. Because the people that we were getting them from are no longer growing them.

[Sarah Marshall]

Which is very sad. Well, okay. Yeah. So yours are a little smaller and they're from Square Pig, right?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

So Squarepig isn't going to have them, but I usually go out to Soviet island farm to the pumpkin patch, and they grow these there. So. So they have them every year and you can buy them in big 10 pound bags. And they also sell the, you know, fresh dill at the same time. So that's where I go out and get them. And, you know, we kind of make it a family Thing. My daughter loves these pickles. She doesn't like the fermented ones, but she likes the pickled ones, which are right there.

[Shannon Larson]

I got mine from that same farm last year, and they made the best pickles I've ever made before.

[Sarah Marshall]

They're great. They're the best. It's just, like, consistency, you know, So I know how to do it every time. Cause we get them from the same farm, same year, you know, every year. They're all always the same, and they're. They're just really lovely and nice. So that's. That's my recommendation for where to go.

[Megan Scott]

Awesome. I was worried that we wouldn't be able to make them anymore.

[Sarah Marshall]

You'll still be able to. Yeah, they're a little bit bigger than square, but those would totally work. But they're. Yeah.

[John Becker]

Oh, yeah, Those. Those would be just fine.

[Sarah Marshall]

And they. Yeah, they're just the little gherkin. So they. They sell also, like pickling cucumbers, which are a little bigger, but these are the smaller ones. The smaller.

[John Becker]

What can I pass you the. The pickled.

[Sarah Marshall]

Pickled version of.

[Shannon Larson]

I like the vinegar in your water bath pickles.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. Yeah. So that's a mix of apple cider vinegar and distilled vinegar, which I usually like to do. I think the apple cider vinegar makes things a little bit sweet, so I like to cut it with distilled. Unless you're doing a sweet pickle, which those are not.

[Megan Scott]

What's the opinion on sweet pickles, by the way, at the table?

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like every pickle is a worthy pickle. Personally, I won't. I feel like sweet pickles or like bread and butter pickles, things like that. It's just like a. Every so often I get the craving for them kind of reminds me of childhood, I think.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

And I'll get a jar randomly and just, like, snack on them a little bit. They're not my go to, but I like to have them on occasion.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I agree.

[John Becker]

Yeah, definitely. I'm on board with bread and butter for sure. We've made bread and butter jalapeno pickles before. I like that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I like those.

[John Becker]

You know, kind of a sweet heat situation. But yeah, I like just the sweet gherkins or whatever. I'm not.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, not so much.

[John Becker]

Not the biggest fan. Not so much.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, I like sliced. I have a. There's a recipe for sweet pickles in my book that's, like, thinly sliced with onions and then lots of chili flakes. So I kind of like to balance, like, the Sweet with heat. But that's not really surprising for me, so. So. And then I'll put them into, like, salads or things like that or sandwiches, and they're just, like, already, you know, just ready to pull out of the jar.

[Megan Scott]

So we also brought. I made some yeast rolls yesterday, and I, John, had the really good idea to try it. Making a pickle and butter sandwich. So I'm actually gonna do that because I'm kind of hungry.

[Shannon Larson]

I'll do the same thing. It's dinner time.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

Earlier today, I was looking at those rolls, and I'm just like. Well, you know, there's like, this famous James Beard recipe or James Beard publisher recipe for these sandwiches that are just, like, very thinly sliced raw onion. So I was doing that with thinly sliced serrano chilies today and butter.

[Sarah Marshall]

You're speaking my love language over here.

[John Becker]

I highly recomm. It was very good.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

That sounds great.

[John Becker]

But, yeah. And it's like, wait, we should be doing pickle sandwiches.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. This is a good idea. It looks a little preposterous, though.

[Shannon Larson]

I think it looks beautiful. We should probably take a picture of that.

[Sarah Marshall]

I know the rolls you made are. Are really beautiful. Is that a recipe you've made before or.

[Megan Scott]

It's from the new King Arthur bread book.

[Sarah Marshall]

I love King Arthur recipes. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. It's actually. This was their hamburger bun recipe, but I just made them smaller and baked them in a pan instead of on a sheet. Like, in a, like, baking dish rather than a sheet pan. Okay. To get them really, like, rounded and tall. And they're. They're great. They worked really well.

[John Becker]

Okay.

[Shannon Larson]

That's ridiculously good. And it's literally just a roll and some good butter and a pickle.

[Sarah Marshall]

Pickle sandwiches, everybody. Love it.

[Megan Scott]

Pickle sandwiches. Let's make it a go.

[Sarah Marshall]

Gotta give it a go.

[Shannon Larson]

I like how in our friend group, pickles. It just feels very important to our friend group.

[Megan Scott]

Every potluck, there will be several jars of homemade something. Homemade, pickled.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. It's so great.

[John Becker]

I mean, it's like a Pinot Portlandia joke.

[Sarah Marshall]

Come on.

[Shannon Larson]

Oh, I guess it is.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Never actually watched it.

[John Becker]

Yeah. Actually, I mean, I feel like that's one of the few things that I've. I know about that show.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. So we all met through our canning club, Portland Preservation Society. I don't even know how many years ago. Shannon, I met first, and then I. I met so Logan and then John. Yeah. So I feel like pickles really brought us together. Like, and they Continue to. As we're talking about pickles as our episode. So yeah, it's perfect. We're pickle buddies forever.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like it's just such a nice thing to share with friends. Like, you put work into them. You're usually using ingredients that are really beautiful and fresh and local and then gifting them all sorts of things. I don't know.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And then you get, I mean, the, the problem that I always had with canning was that then I just had. I would can something and then I would have 10 jars of that thing. Which is fine if it's. I don't know, it's fine for some things, but other things, I would be like, it's been two years. I still have jars of this thing. So getting to take those to canning club and trade them for just to have more like different kinds of things in your pantry, it's. It's kind of. It's fun, but it's also really practical. Yeah. And you get, then you get to see what everyone else is making and then get really good recipes from other people.

[Shannon Larson]

It's very like you get inspired by others.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, we always eat good food and hang out and it's like, there's nothing bad about it.

[John Becker]

It's also a trust building type type exercise as well. Because you really, you know, your life is in their hands.

[Shannon Larson]

I really, really trust you.

[Sarah Marshall]

Same.

[Megan Scott]

We're pros. We do it the right way. Sarah, we're gonna interview you now.

[Sarah Marshall]

Great. For a change, I'm ready.

[Megan Scott]

You are a very busy person, or I think you must be a busy person. Like, I don't know, I don't see your day to day life. But, you know, you're a business owner, a podcast producer, and a mom. So how do you approach dinner every night?

[Sarah Marshall]

I mean, it, it just depends. Yes, I am busy. So busy always. And we're always running from place to place. And you know, as even just for example, today like I went from an event to like speeding down. You know, I was out in wine country selling hot sauce and coming here to record this. And then a lot of times, to be honest, I forget to eat because I'm going from place to place. So I was explaining to you guys, I eat snacks out of my bag a lot in the car. But then we always, you know, have dinner and. But I'm not a planner. I don't menu plan. I don't have any idea of what I'm gonna do. I just kind of see what we have and I make it because it also is dependent on what the other people in my family want to eat. So, you know, Adeline is a great eater. She loves vegetables, she loves to eat, she loves to try new things. But she's a big carb loader and I'm not really so much. So we have to kind of come to a middle ground sometimes. So she's really good at, like, thinking about what she wants and then being like, but you could make this. And then you would have what you want and I would have what I want. And so we do a lot of that.

[Megan Scott]

That's so helpful that she has ideas.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Megan Scott]

I feel like that's half of the.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

The issue is coming up with ideas for dinner.

[Sarah Marshall]

And then Dirk cooks dinner a lot. If I'm coming from something, especially if an event ends at like, you know, five, and then I get home at six, he'll make dinner and he's like a very strict recipe follower and will do it exactly, you know, And I am just like, not. We're just opposites, but we always have fun and make good stuff. And, you know, we cook a lot with stuff from the farmer's market, which, you know, if, if anybody's ever been involved in that kind of situation, it's a big bartering club. So just like in canning club where we trade things, that's how the farmers market works too. So I trade a lot of hot sauce for, you know, whoever I'm around. So whatever is in season. From farmers to, you know, I'm next to a sausage, next to scratch meats, I'm next to them, so I trade with them a lot. So I come home with all these really great things from around town and then it's, it's really easy to just turn that into a great meal.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

I still remember using their scratch meats, their Sunday gravy sausage, where it's like, designed to hold up to like, really long simmering. It's very good.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, they, they have great stuff. All of their stuff is so good. I, and my family likes it, so it's easy. I always say, hey, it's sausage party night and no one's mad about it.

[Shannon Larson]

We always have some of their stuff in our freezer.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, always.

[Megan Scott]

Are there any foods that, like, are just off limits in your family that nobody likes that just are off the menu? Totally.

[Sarah Marshall]

Oh, that's a good question. I mean, no, I would just say we're different levels of spice tolerant. So where Dirk and I like things really spicy, Adeline likes things not that spicy. So we kind of make things just neutral. And then we will add either our hot sauces or pickled chilies. Or we make this thing called Volcano Sparkle, which is like all my favorite chilies that I've smoked and dried and powdered. And so we'll put that on stuff just so that we're, like, all happy. So I think that's about it. I would say the only thing that we all do not like and will not eat is mayonnaise, which, you know. Okay. Yeah. Because you came over one time when we were going to have sandwiches, and I was like, dude, no mayonnaise. There's none in the house. I made you guys BLTs. That's what it was.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, BLTs.

[Sarah Marshall]

I'm like, sorry, they just. It doesn't exist here.

[Megan Scott]

You were like, let me check the fridge. Because sometimes. Was it your dad or Dirk's dad that will leave a giant thing of mayonnaise in your fridge?

[Sarah Marshall]

Because he stays here and watches online and he'll leave it in the fridge, but I will find it as soon as I come home and I just.

[Shannon Larson]

Get rid of it. Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. Bless you. Yeah. We're very all anti mayonnaise, all of us.

[Megan Scott]

I used to be as a kid, but I. Then I grew into it.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. I really think that's the only thing. Otherwise, we're open to pretty much anything.

[John Becker]

I feel like, you know, if people just were introduced to mayonnaise with Dukes, it would be a different story, maybe.

[Megan Scott]

I mean, I think it's a texture thing maybe for a lot of people, which I get. When I was a kid, the context I had mayonnaise growing up was like, my mom would sometimes put it on, like, in the morning, she would make an egg sandwich and put mayonnaise on it. And the hot mayonnaise grossed me out so much as a kid. I still don't like that. Like, I still don't want it on a hot thing, but, like on a BLT or a tomato sandwich, I like. I'm. I am pro mayonnaise.

[Sarah Marshall]

But anyway, I, you know, I. We live in a world where people love mayonnaise, but I just know that in my home, that is what we all don't like. That's it.

[John Becker]

We can only control so much, you know? Gotta carve out a space to exist.

[Megan Scott]

Where do you find meal inspiration? Do you, like, look at cookbooks or look at TikTok videos?

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, well, I mean, we're sitting right in front of our cookbook collection, which is not like yours, but it Is close. Yeah, we love cookbooks. We try to get cookbooks. Like, you know, when people travel, they'll sometimes bring back something. My suitcase is always full of cookbooks because we'll go to restaurants, and a lot of the restaurants will have cookbooks. When I came back from London, I brought three cookbooks home in my suitcase. It was very heavy on the way back, but, yeah, so we. And, you know, also Adeline and I go to the library every week and we'll pick out a cookbook and cook from it. So we. Yeah, it's really nice because then, like, she. She usually gets a kid cookbook from her school library, and then I get a regular not kid cookbook from the, you know, the Multnomah County Library, and then we'll cook stuff from it. And that just keeps things, I think, interesting and. And always, like mixing it up, because I think that's. I don't think cooking and. And, you know, experimenting. I just. I think there's so much you can do and so many new things to try always. And so I don't think it should ever get boring. So we just always make it up.

[John Becker]

It's a life goal. I think everyone gets into ruts every now and then, but I think after. After we published the 2019 edition, it was. It was just rough to just keep that. Keep that kind of sense of exploration going.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I mean, we definitely had. We had a. We were burnout.

[Sarah Marshall]

That's.

[Megan Scott]

That was the problem. That was what was going on. Yeah, it's hard. It's even hard to think about what you want at a certain point. Like, I don't even know what I want anymore. And we went through that and that, you know, we published the book in 2019, and then 2020 was pandemic and, you know, other things going on that were, like, very stressful. And so we were burnt out. And then on top of it, everything was stressful. And I think we just went through this period of not wanting to cook anything and nothing sounded good, which is a bad thing.

[Sarah Marshall]

That happens. I mean, I think that happens for me too, with cooking. So, you know, I mean, I'm cooking sauces all day long, and then I smell, like, sauce. My glasses are splattered in sauce. I've cooked food for other people all day, and so then sometimes I don't want to make dinner. But we also made. As a family, we made it a goal to, like, support local restaurants. So we eat out a lot, and we eat at our friends, restaurants who are important to us, and it's also important for me to experience other people's food so that I can always be learning while I'm doing it. So we use kind of those meals as, like, you know, one. A chance to be with our friends, because usually they're working and we can talk to them, and we always sit at the chef counter, and Adeline does that too. And that's, like, part of what. What's important to our fam, but also, you know, we see what other people are doing with produce at the market. Might not be something that I would think of or do, but it's just, like, inspiring. And also, us eating there helps them to keep their restaurants open. As you guys know, we've had a hard time keeping restaurants open in Portland. So, you know, I love to cook, but I also love to eat out. So we try to do a good balance of both of those things.

[Megan Scott]

Do you. So it sounds like you go to a lot of the same places over and over, but are. Do you find you're more of a regular, or are you always trying new places too?

[Sarah Marshall]

We do both. I mean, sometimes we'll make a commitment to be like, we really need to support downtown restaurants. And so then maybe we'll go to places we haven't been to, or if we have any buddies that have restaurants down there. But we have a family dinner night, and so we switch off. Who picks? So we usually do that once a week. And so, like, you know, if it's my week, I pick something, I want to go to Adeline's week. She picks Sushi Train, which is her favorite. Yeah, yeah. And. And so we do that as well. So then we're all happy. And even if you're, oh, gosh, I can't possibly eat Sushi Train again, then I'm like, oh, but I'm gonna have, like, these two other really great dinners because I'm gonna pick one and Dirk's gonna pick one, you know, so it's like, it gets us through and then we're all happy.

[Shannon Larson]

Adeline, I also love Sushi Train, so it's okay.

[Megan Scott]

Me too. It's so fun.

[Sarah Marshall]

I mean, there. I. I have a fun time every time. We. We really like it. But if. If we let her pick all the time, we would always go there. You know what I mean? So we have to be fair and mindful. So we're all happy.

[Shannon Larson]

I feel like that's something my husband and I should adopt, because sometimes you're just. I think that's the thing is when you're Eating with other people. You have to make everybody happy. But if it's just like you get to decide and the other person just has to kind of shut up and go wherever, then I get to go somewhere I really want to go. And so maybe we should start.

[Sarah Marshall]

And then everyone's like, stoked for that person. You know, like when it's my night and I pick Adeline's like, oh, mom, are you so happy we're gonna go to this place? And I'm like, oh, yeah. I usually sing a little song about it. Like, I'm just like stoked on the way there. Like, like, it's just like we can support each other in our excitement.

[Shannon Larson]

Now I want to know your list of places, but.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, we should talk about that later.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, I mean, I have so many. I love, I love all of our restaurants here. I can name some off if you want me to, please. We love to go to Arden, which we talked about earlier. That's. That's wonderful. We love to go. I mean, we used to go to Lemul a lot and it closed and we were so sad. I know. So. So we go to.

[John Becker]

That was. Was a. That was a comforting place.

[Megan Scott]

Heartbroken.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, Jacqueline has kind of taken the spot for us of. Of Lamo. And then in our neighborhood, we really like street disco. Wonderful spot. Yeah. Nistrana is always kind of like our go to. Yeah, we usually go there for like my birthday. I. I mean, that's a place that I've like spent a lot of years going to. I really like this place called the Stone Cliff Inn, which is outside of town. It's in Carver, but it's up in this big lodge on the hill. And if people are Twilight fans, which a lot of people are that go there, a lot of Twilight scenes were filmed there. And so you'll see like some fun vampire kids amongst this, like, you know, this out of town spot. But I like to go there a lot.

[Megan Scott]

I love that. That's fun. We should go.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, that would be really cool.

[Megan Scott]

We should reunite our Twilight crew.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, we did watch Twilight for the first time together.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, it's. And it's up on the hill and it overlooks the water and they use like, you know, they're famous for like their salmon chowder and things of that nature. So it's a really great place. So those are like my top ones. I can just list off my head at all times. Oh, Hanok. We spend a lot of time at. We used to go to Toki. They closed. So now Jeju is the other one we go to, so we're usually haunting those places.

[John Becker]

How did you start making hot sauce?

[Sarah Marshall]

That's a good question. And I guess I just think that you guys know this story, but maybe you don't. I was a social worker. I worked for a local nonprofit called Janice Youth. And I worked with families and kids for a very long time. And I started teaching parent education groups. So I taught families how to do things different than what they had done before. So I was always coming up with different stuff, like, we're gonna have a photography club, or we're gonna have a cooking class, or we're going to do art therapy. And we would just do all these things, and something different would stick for each family, you know. But people got really into the things that I was making with food. So I taught families how to pick up food from the food bank and then can it. So it, like, kind of started with, like, applesauce. And then the home I was at for a while was teenage boys, and they really liked spicy food. So I started picking up things to make hot sauce and salsa, and then they kept wanting it spicier and spicier. And then I, like, made a barbecue sauce. And I just, like, kind of got into this, like, creative realm of that.

[Shannon Larson]

That.

[Sarah Marshall]

And then I just really liked that piece a lot more. We had people put in on site gardens. We picked up a lot of food from the farmers, who eventually ended up being my farm buddies that I sourced from that were donating produce. And I just kind of got really into the food bank and the farmer's market. And I started falling in love with all the people and, you know, just the way that I felt there. I liked a lot more than how I felt at the job I was doing, because I'd just been there for a long time and I was kind of burnt out. So I started taking some business classes, and I thought maybe I wanted to open a food cart. And it was either I had, like two files on my computer and it was like a food cart or hot sauce business. And I, like, made a list of pros and cons in my business class. And the food cart was definitely like, it's going to be really cold and really slow. Yeah. And the hot sauce business was like, oh, well, I can kind of start this without any money, you know. And so, you know, as, you know, social workers do not make a lot of money. So I didn't really have any. And so I was like, I'm gonna just try and see what happens. And so I started, you know, I was making all the hot sauce for the kids anyways with stuff from the garden. And so then I was like, I'm gonna start, you know, talking to my farmers and see if I can buy stuff from them. And I made like 12 bottles of sauce at a time. I got a license called a cottage license, and so I could make it in my home kitchen, but I, like, outgrew that pretty fast. And I really thought I was going to go back to social work. I thought I was going to just take a little time off because I was burnt out. And I think this is year like 14 or 15 or something. So I never went back. I loved teaching people how to do things with food, and I still do that, and I still teach classes at my daughter's school garden, at local libraries. I love to teach kids how to connect with food, how to connect with each other, how to make cool stuff. So. So that piece is just where I fell in love. So I continue to do that. And I love all the social workers out there that are continuing to do their social work job. I think it's really important, but I also think it's important to leave when you're ready to leave. The hot sauce business just brings me so much joy. My husband and I do it together, and our daughter's really involved, and we were really connected to the people in town and the people at the market. Yeah, I'm still digging it. So here we go. I don't know if I'll stop. I think this is, like, my life journey.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

You're really good at it.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I mean, I think it's because I love it. You know, I love to do it. I'll just keep doing it until I don't love it. I guess that's it.

[Shannon Larson]

I think something that's unique about your hot sauces, too, is that you use them in recipes in a way that maybe not every other hot, like, people think of. I don't know. I used to think of hot sauce as something you put on top of nachos or, you know, that kind of thing. But yours have so many different uses. So, like, you can put them into curries or, you know, whatever. It's just like a totally different way to think about how to use that kind of flavor in your cooking and just hot sauce in general, like how you can use it when cooking meals.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, we write lots of recipes, and I mean, to be honest, it's just stuff that I'm cooking at home. So, like, my daughter loves our barbecue Sauce. So a lot of the recipes on our website use the barbecue sauce, and it's for doing things like meatloaf and sloppy joes and, you know, pulled pork, because those are all things that she digs that are really easy. And I always tell people at the farmer's market, like, I made this so easy for you because I took all these vegetables that you could buy right now. But I, you know, I cook them. Like for our barbecue sauce, I cook it in a 500 degree oven for five hours. So it, like, reduces it. Nobody's gonna do that at home.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

You know, like, you're just. No, even if you love canning and cooking, it's still labor intensive. It's still hard.

[John Becker]

So reduce in a 500 degree oven.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, we do in big sheet, like, you know, hotel pans. And that's what makes it thick and sticky without using corn syrup, because most barbecue sauces have corn syrup. So it's. It's just like this way that we figured out how to do it. But, like, I mean, maybe you would do that to make your Christmas gifts to give somebody, but it's just not realistic. Right?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

So I have some of your barbecue sauce in my fridge right now.

[Sarah Marshall]

Good one. I love it. You should make the meatloaf. It's really good.

[Shannon Larson]

Okay, I will. You don't have to trust my arm. It's okay.

[Megan Scott]

Other than the barbecue sauce, do you, what does your meatloaf have? A secret sort of.

[Sarah Marshall]

So I don't put any onions in it, but I put little pieces of celery chopped up. So it's like you're sneaking those veggies in for kittens. Adeline is not the kind of kid that won't eat veggies, but a lot of them are, so even when she has friends over and stuff. And then for the glaze on the top, we just mix barbecue sauce with ketchup, and it makes it nice and sticky, coating the top. And I like to do it in little tiny rounds and, like on parchment paper. So I don't do it in like a meatloaf pan. I just shape it and put it on the trays. And the kids all dig it.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah. Also any excuse for more celery.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, you would love it. Shannon. I think I made this recipe for you. Barbecue sauce.

[Shannon Larson]

Your barbecue sauce and celery.

[Sarah Marshall]

It's all meant to be.

[Megan Scott]

All right, so each week on the show, we choose a topic to tackle based on a question from one of our callers. And this week we're talking about pickles. Sarah, can you play the clip or read the text?

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, this is, this is my usual rule is that I read. So this was an anonymous text.

[Megan Scott]

Oh, anonymous.

[Sarah Marshall]

And it said, are there any tips for making pickles canned or fridge crunchy versus soft?

[John Becker]

Well, there are.

[Megan Scott]

I was like, I know John has this one down.

[Shannon Larson]

John has thoughts?

[John Becker]

Well, no, I mean, I, I feel like you kind of touched on it when you were introducing the pickle plate. Just not cooking them at all is obviously going to keep things a little bit crisper than if you were to cook them. But aside from that. Yeah, you stopped me from saying this earlier. With cucumbers, you definitely want to cut off the blossom end. There's some enzymes that are present in the blossom end of the cucumber that will end up actually softening the cucumber. Keep softening the pickle after, you know, just not, not very much time.

[Megan Scott]

How much do you cut off?

[John Becker]

I mean, it's talking about like a quarter inch maybe.

[Megan Scott]

So not very much at all. It's just really at the very, very end. Like the opposite, the stem end.

[John Becker]

Right. And then you can't really just do this willy nilly with like any old pickle. Pickle recipe. But a lot of pickle recipes rely on either. Well, yeah, just doing a nice simple salt brine. And then it's just putting like for instance, cucumbers in the brine overnight. And that has a, you know, it kind of draws out like some of the moisture from the, from the pickle or from the cucumbers and also helps season them throughout.

[Megan Scott]

And then our favorite method that we've been using for a few years now, which is low temperature canning, which sounds like it should be wrong, but it is USDA approved. But you basically instead of, you know, you get your pickles in the brine and the jars, instead of putting them in a boiling water bath, you heat your water bath to 180 degrees. And then you put your pickles, the jars in. And then once it comes back up to 180 degrees, you keep them there for 30 minutes. So instead of that boil for like 10 minutes, you're doing a lower temperature for a longer time. But it really makes a huge difference. Like we've stopped doing it it though the old school way ever since we first started doing it, you know, the low temp way.

[Shannon Larson]

I've been eating your pickles for a long time and they're always crunchy.

[Megan Scott]

Like, yeah.

[Shannon Larson]

Whenever they come to canning club, I'm like, okay, that's my number one choice.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah. And that the cornishaw in particular, it uses both of those, both of those tricks, you know, because they get, they get brined overnight before they actually get pickled and canned. And then, yeah, we'll use the low temp.

[Megan Scott]

And technically it's not. So it is USDA approved for. Specifically for cucumber pickles.

[John Becker]

Exactly.

[Megan Scott]

But not other pickles. However, I think that's less a function of like it's not safe than it is. They just haven't done all the research they need to do to be able to recommend that to everyone in the world. So it's probably safe.

[John Becker]

But we're gonna, we're gonna go with the USDA on this.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, yeah, go with the usda. They, they're smart. Yeah.

[Sarah Marshall]

And you can always check the national center for Home Canning and Preserving. They like update it. I think. I didn't mention that I have done the master canning program. So at that time it's why I can solve everybody's pickle problems. I had to be a volunteer on the hotline and I would answer questions that would come in. It's kind of how our hotline is designed. People would leave a message and then we would call them back and solve their pickle problems. So I got really good at doing that. But one of the tips that I have in my book for keeping pickles crispy is that you can use grape leaves and put the grape leaves in the jar. But sometimes the problem with that, that is that grape leaves are way after cucumber season. So I wrote a recipe for canning grape leaves. You roll them up into these little kind of like cigar shaped things and you can them in the jar and then you can use them when you're making your pickles.

[Megan Scott]

Nice. That's such a good idea.

[Shannon Larson]

That's really smart.

[Megan Scott]

Or you could use them for dolmas.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, I mean you can use them for whatever you want to use them for, but that is one of the things that you can do.

[John Becker]

I have heard of people using oak leaves as well. I think it's just like the tannins in the leaves is what you.

[Sarah Marshall]

I've never tried that, but I have definitely heard people say that. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Sounds old school.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[John Becker]

But you know, after snipping off the blossom end, we just stopped. I mean we used to use grape leaves especially for like fermented half sour cucumber pickles. We just stopped doing it and haven't really gone back.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, I don't. I mean, I haven't done a side. We haven't done a side by side to see if it's it like the grape leaf plus the blossom end or however, if it makes a difference.

[Sarah Marshall]

But yeah, I mean I, we do both, you know, and I think that it works well. I like the low temperature canning. You know, I grew up with my mom having a steam canner which, you know, everything sort of changes. Like people always ask me when they come to my classes if they're, you know, if you can use an instapot to pressure can or, you know, there's a lot of over the counter canning apparatuses that will be like a water bath canner but you plug it in on the counter. They have a lot of those in the uk. So there's always different things and we always research all of those things. But I would say, you know, it's always good to do the safest route and that's what I always recommend. So, you know, follow that. National center for Home Canning and Preserving.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah, I think that's one thing I hear from friends of mine who aren't into canning is that they're just really nervous about. About starting out.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And intimidating.

[Shannon Larson]

It is intimidating. It for sure is intimidating. I remember when I first got into it, I used food and jars was kind of my introduction to like simple basic canning. And I think pickles were the first thing I ever did. But I was freaking out and now I do it all the time. It's, you learn what to do and what not to do and it's, it's really not as intimidating as it seems.

[Sarah Marshall]

At first, I would say.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And I think a lot of people worry about, you know, I've, I've definitely had people ask me like, I'm not gonna get botulism, am I, from making pick. And I'm like, well you're certainly not going to get it from making pickles because they're acidic. And if you follow a reputable source, like a recipe from a reputable source, the pickles will be acidic enough that the bacteria cannot grow in that environment. So you're never going to have that problem. It's with the like the foods that are not acidified. Like, you know, if you just can green beans and water and you don't do it properly, then you have a risk. But like jams and jellies and pickles, it's really not a danger issue. I mean you might run into like, if you don't do it right, maybe the quality isn't as good as what you would want. But you're, you're pretty safe if you're Following a good recipe.

[Shannon Larson]

Yeah.

[Megan Scott]

Would you concur?

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I always tell people to follow the recipe that they find in, like, a published source. So, like, when I wrote my canning book, I took all the recipes in and had them tested in a food lab. So we make sure that the acidity is well below what it is even recommended, because you kind of leave room for human error. So that doesn't mean that you should think about that when you're following your recipe. But that's what I'm thinking about when I'm writing the recipe. So, you know, I always just recommend that people follow it. Exactly. And if you don't have those ingredients, just hold off. Yeah. And you can always do quick pickles, which is like, sometimes quick pickles are my favorite. Yeah. It's like you. You know, a quick pickle is just where you take a vegetable, cold vegetable. You, you know, clean it, wash it, cut it, put it in the jar, and you pour, like, a hot brine over it. That's usually got salt and some spices and some vinegar and some water, and everything stays really nice and crispy. You put it in the refrigerator, you can just do one jar. It's what I teach kids how to do, because it's like, there's no risk involved. It goes in the fridge. So if you're, like, worried about it, that's like, the best way to make a crunchy, easy, safe pickle. So you don't. People shouldn't be scared. If you feel like you're not confident in what you're doing, then maybe you're just not ready to do it, and you can just, like, wait until you are. It doesn't mean that you can't do it, but you have to, like, believe in yourself, and you have to believe that you're going to follow your expert guide that wrote the recipe for you, you know, and if you can't do that, hold off.

[Megan Scott]

Just do quick pickles.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, quick pickles are easy way to do it. Yeah. I teach a lot of canning classes. You know, we do them here in our commercial kitchen through Airbnb experience. And I teach people that are traveling from all over the world, and I love for people to learn, and I think it helps them to have someone here and do it together. I think a lot of people are physical learners, and so I think classes like that are really good. But, you know, I always tell people, if you don't feel conf in doing it, don't. You're not ready, don't do it. And that's okay. You know, make some quick pickles and have a good time. Don't be stressed.

[Shannon Larson]

And there are certain things that I think are better as quick pickles. I like my jalapenos.

[Megan Scott]

Your jalapenos are excellent because I like the crunch.

[Shannon Larson]

So if you like, if you are looking for a crunch in whatever it is you're pickling, quick pickle is definitely the easiest way to get that.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. And to kind of backtrack and be a little more specific about the low temperature canning method for cucumber pickles to hold your water bath at 180 degrees, there's a couple ways you can do it. One is, I mean, if you just have a stovetop, you have to be more vigilant and make sure your water isn't getting below 180 degrees.

[John Becker]

Yeah. An instant read thermometer is definitely a must. And you're gonna have to pay attention for 30 minutes.

[Megan Scott]

Yes.

[John Becker]

But immersion circulators are definitely, or a quote unquote, sous vide cooker is by far the easiest.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. That makes it so easy.

[John Becker]

No, it's easier than water bath canning for sure. Just regular boiling water bath and it's consistent.

[Sarah Marshall]

So it's telling you this is the temperature it's at, so you don't have to question it. And what that temperature is going to do is kill off any bacteria. It's not doing anything for botulism. It's just killing off anything that's going to spoil your food. And when you're doing it at that low temperature, it keeps the texture and the consistency from getting soft. It's a really wonderful way to do it. But not everybody has access to that expensive piece of machinery. And I think eventually there will be instapot recipes that people will be able to follow. But I think everything has to come from those labs. And that takes money, it takes time. And then that lab is essentially taking on that risk. So they're like, are we ready to release this to all the people that have instapods? I don't know.

[John Becker]

Well, yeah, and I feel like with instant pots in particular, they're not reaching the same psi as other pressure canners. And so there's a little bit of potential confusion there. So. Yeah. Is this an instant pot recipe or is this like a pressure canning recipe?

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, they're just not ready yet. The instant pots are not ready to be pickling champions.

[Sarah Marshall]

Like pressure. Pressure canning. Yeah. Which is. We haven't, we haven't even really talked about the difference of that. But this doesn't have to be a canning lesson, but, yeah, just a different form of canning.

[John Becker]

Also, don't follow any preserving recipes that are like from the 70s or earlier or just, just don't do. Don't do it.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah, the guidance gets updated. And not that those old recipes are unsafe, but they might be. They might not be. Just they might not have the most recent information, which, you know, a lot of folks that we've talked to about, like, getting the new Joy of Cooking, they're like, oh, well, I have my mom's old one, which is great, and they should never get rid of it. But also, especially with something like canning, you really do want to have the most up to date information for that.

[John Becker]

I mean, when, when Irma was writing, she was telling people, like, put the pickles in a jar and seal them. Yeah, that's it. That's all that she said. And you know, that's just not. That doesn't cut. Cut the mustard, so to speak.

[Megan Scott]

Yeah. I mean, I think she could rely on her audience kind of knowing having more baseline knowledge about canning and preserving, but also probably they weren't doing it.

[Sarah Marshall]

The way we would do it today.

[John Becker]

No, I don't think they were.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. And the rules are always updated. You know, they. You used to have to boil lids. This is like a perfect example. And then in they decided you don't have to boil the lids. You can, you can just because they're gonna get, you know, boiled in the end. But that was something that changed across the board for everybody. Like, everyone had always boiled the lids and you always had to have that, like, third pot on the stove. And then all of a sudden you didn't have to. And I still have people that are like, what are you talking about? Of course you have to boil the lids. I'm like, no, look here. Here's where they changed it. And I'll show them, I promise.

[Shannon Larson]

Sometimes I still get the urge to get my little magnetic lid thing out. I don't know.

[Sarah Marshall]

I still use that though, because I just like it. It's fun. It's like a magic wand.

[Megan Scott]

If you have a topic, ingredient, or joy story to share, call our hotline at 503-395-8858. Leave us a message or send us a text. We would love to hear from you. Next week's topic comes from our caller.

[Sarah Marshall]

Hi, my name is Kai.

[John Becker]

I have a message for the Joy of Cooking podcast.

[Sarah Marshall]

Do you have any salmon recipes that are really easy to make week?

[John Becker]

Thank you. Well, yeah. So what are you guys excited to try this next week.

[Shannon Larson]

Well, I have two pepper plants in my garden that will not quit.

[Megan Scott]

Whoa.

[Shannon Larson]

Which is great. But they're. They're about to quit with this rain coming. So I'm talking about canning, going to pickle them. Surprise, surprise. I don't know what kind of peppers they are because the previous owners of the house just, like, planted things in the garden for us, which. Which was so, so nice. I know. It's been. It was just wonderful. But I have no idea what kind of peppers they are, so I'm just gonna. They're not super spicy. They're just. I've grilled them before, but I'm gonna do, like, a homemade mama Lilz concoction with whatever they are, because I will put those peppers on every single thing.

[Megan Scott]

They're so good.

[Shannon Larson]

So good. So good.

[Megan Scott]

What do they look. What do the peppers look like?

[Shannon Larson]

Well, they're green, but they're not jalapeno. I don't know. I'll take a picture and send it to you. I really have no idea. But I kind of like them. That it's a puzzle.

[Sarah Marshall]

Well, sometimes the peppers, too, will, like, cross pollinate. So even if you can identify it, you might not be able to identify it. That sometimes will happen.

[Shannon Larson]

I'm okay with it. I like my little. My little mystery pepper plants.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah, those are the best kinds.

[Shannon Larson]

What about you?

[Sarah Marshall]

So we're making that basil hot sauce that I told you about. So with that, we try to use all the waste in the kitchen, either for personal business or for our home. So I'm going to be making a lot of stock this week, which I'm always excited about, because we got a lot of leaks and we keep the green tops. And then I just, like, end up getting a bunch of whole chickens, cutting up and parting them, and then, like, freezing the parts that we will eat, but then using this, the parts that we don't. And I make the stock with all the leftover leeks, and then we'll just either can it, freeze it, or just eat it. So I. I always get excited about that process because it's also at the same time that I'll, like, like, trim all the herbs. And so I'll make the stock with leeks and chicken bones and, you know, whatever scrap stuff we have from the garden, and then all of the, like, thyme and rosemary and stuff like that. So that's. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm excited.

[Megan Scott]

Smells heavenly. While you're. While you're cooking it down.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. And we have big, you know, we have, because we have two kitchens, we have two guest stoves. So I'll sometimes have, like, multiple pots going and just, like, simmering. So our whole house smells like, you know, holiday, like, the most comforting.

[Shannon Larson]

I love the smell of homemade stock.

[Sarah Marshall]

It's just.

[Shannon Larson]

It's so comforting.

[Sarah Marshall]

Yeah. So it's kind of like that when I see that, like, I, like, pick up the leaks from the market and I'm like, oh, yeah, I know what I'm gonna do.

[Shannon Larson]

Thank you for listening to the Joy of Cooking podcast. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and itunes. Follow us on Instagram hejoyofcooking. Stay tuned for next week where we will tackle salmon. Call in with questions, hopes, history, or where you find joy in the the kitchen. 503-395-8858. Again, that's 503-395-8858.

[Megan Scott]

We could not do this without our fantastic team at the Joy of Creation production house. Thank you to Kayleen beach, our production coordinator, Haley Bowers, our audio engineer, and Sarah Marshall, our producer and guest.

[Shannon Larson]

Thank you, Sarah.