← The Joy Reid Show
The Joy Reid Show
A Moral Monday: Messing with Texas | The Joy Reid Show LIVE! | Jul 28, 2025 Episode
01:20:15
Loading summary
Transcript116 lines
- [00:00]
Joy Reid
Foreign Hello. Happy Monday. Good evening everyone and welcome to the Joy Reid Show. Oh, okay. Well, I'll show you a piece of video from last week. Now, it shows a young man named Isaiah Martin, who honestly I first encountered on TikTok where I happen to follow him. And he does an amazing job of arguing down MAGA supporters. And he's now running for Congress as a Democrat, taking on Texas lawmakers who are pushing to redistrict Texas in a non census year on the orders of Donald Trump. Trump told Texas's all Republican leadership that he needs five additional congressional seats to be drawn into the map so that he can ensure that Republicans keep control of the U.S. house of Representatives, where they currently hold 219 seats to 212 for the Democrats. And that's following the deaths of two Texas congressmen, Sylvester Turner and Raul Rehalva earlier this year, as well as the death of a third Democrat, Gerry Connally in Virginia. He happens to be the guy who got the Democratic leadership position that AOC was going for, but the Democratic leadership said, nah, let's go with the guy who is imminently going to expire, God rest his soul. And also the resignation of Congressman Mark Green from the state of Tennessee. Now, Trump clearly needs to keep the House in order to prevent oversight over his regime and also to keep Congress obedient the way it is now under the current leadership and Speaker Johnson, who basically does whatever Donald Trump tells him to. And I keep in mind, Texas is already a heavily gerrymandered state and it's already under fire for redistricting and a process that is gerrymandering, basically rigging the map so that Republicans always win and send a super majority delegation to Congress and also keep a, a super, you know, super majority in the state House. And that is from Trump doj. Earlier this month, that doj, the Trump doj, sent Texas a letter citing four Texas congressional districts and saying that they are the result of unconstitutional, illegal racial gerrymandering. So Governor Greg Abbott called a special session that began on July 21 and said, no, we're going to redistrict the whole state, but instead of filing a map that would actually follow the Constitution, follow the law. Abbott is being obedient to Trump and looking to redraw the entire Texas map to essentially eliminate Democratic districts and hand them over to Republicans. And Abbott has the votes. The Texas House has 38 seats. There are 25 Republicans and 18 Democrats. And that is not reflective necessarily of the Texas population. It's the result of gerrymandering. They've essentially rigged Texas so that no matter who Democrats are, whether they're popular or not, they can't win. They're are seats that are drawn specifically to continuously elect Republicans. Well, Isaiah, he had a problem with that. He had a problem with that and he had something to say about it. And now I want to, well, before I play the video, before I play the video, I want to explain a couple other things about this situation. Now, Isaiah Martin is the person that's running for Congress and he decided that he had a problem with it. We're going to get to that clip in a moment. But because Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, has threatened to gerrymander the state of Texas to essentially eliminate the Democrats who have seats, other governors are saying, well, we can do the same thing. California's Gavin Newsom has said we can do that too. We can also gerrymander our state so that Republicans don't have any seats. The governor of Illinois, Governor Pritzker has said, hey, if you guys are going to play that game, maybe we'll play that game too in Illinois. Let's go off and let me start with, let me start with Governor Newsom. Sorry about that. I kind of went out of order. So my bad. I went out of order, Jason. But I'm going to go back, let me go back to Gavin Newsom now. This is what Gavin Newsom said, the governor of California, all right. He has said if they're going to do this in Texas, we're going to do it in California, too. And Calmatters, which is a nonprofit site, it put up this story. Let me read a little bit of it. And it says what seemed a few weeks ago to be a far fetched political fantasy ahead of the 2026 midterms has quickly evolved into a high stakes showdown enveloping states across the country. As Texas this week began an off cycle redistricting process meant to shore up Republican slim House majority. Governor Gavin Newsom appeared Friday with a group of Democratic legislators from that state, reaffirming his intention was for California to respond with new maps of its own that would benefit Democrats. Following a meeting with the Texas lawmakers with Texas lawmakers at the historic Governor's Mansion in downtown Sacramento. Newsom told reporters that everything is at stake if we're not successful next year in taking back the House of Representatives, not only blunting President Donald Trump's agenda, but protecting American democracy. If we don't put a stake into the heart of this administration, there may not be an election in 2028. Newsom said. Said they're not screwing around. We can't afford to screw around either. We have got to fight fire with fire. There's one major obstacle to the governor's ambitions, however. While the legislature draws distinct lines in Texas, draws district lines in Texas, California relies on a bipartisan citizen redistricting commission protected by the state constitution. In 2008, voters narrowly approved an amendment from removing California legislators power to draw their own seats. Two years later, voters overwhelmingly passed another amendment expanding the commission's authority to congressional maps. The independent commission in California became a national model for advocates who hope to end the partisan gerrymandering that has contributed to a decline in competitive House seats and the country's fractious sectarian politics. Now Newsom, who's said to be otherwise supportive of independent redistricting, is exploring multiple options for working around the commission to squeeze more Democratic districts out of California if Texas follows through on their plan. Now, when he said that, that led Governor Kathy Hochul of New York to step up next and say, okay, we can do that. New York is also a big state like Texas, lots and lots of congressional seats. Maybe we will explore, okay, messing with our redistricting too. And of course, New York Post attacked her. She's getting attacked not just by the New York Post, but by some Democrats who are saying that what she's doing is dangerous and undemocratic and wrong. Fast forward over to and there she is. She's getting attacked by the New York Post. You see it right there. Governor Pritzker in Illinois said the same thing. He's like, look, if this is the way we're going to play the game, let's all play the game. And he also is getting attacked saying, then it's wrong. It's wrong for Governor Pritzker to want to play the exact same game that Texas is playing because they're saying, look, if the bad guys are going to do bad things, that doesn't mean we should do bad things. Right? Well, to head back to Texas. Now, Isaiah Martin did have a problem with what Texas was trying to do. I want to play this clip. I want to know that it's about four minutes long. I do want to know that there are audio glitches in the video that is not our playback causing it. So do not get at the Joy Reid show tech man in the comments. This is audio glitch is a glitchy audio, but this is the way the audio sounded. Okay? Now let's play this video of Isaiah Martin. It's not playing. Okay? All right, well, it is. It is not playing. So let's just go ahead and bring in our guest. Isaiah Martin is running for Congress in the state of Texas. Isaiah, hello. Can you hear me?
- [08:11]
Isaiah Martin
How's it going?
- [08:12]
Maya Wiley
Super excited to be here.
- [08:14]
Joy Reid
I wish I had this video because it was actually pretty incredible. You essentially confronted the Republicans on that, that are, you know, that are going to redistrict the state. You confronted them, demanded that they answer for the fact that they're being obedient to Donald Trump, and then you were dragged out of the room and tackled to the floor. Please explain what happened. There it is. There it is. Hold on. Let's go ahead and see if we can find.
- [08:37]
Committee Chair
I show you registered as Isaiah Martin testifying on behalf of yourself on the revised congressional redistricting plan. Is that correct?
- [08:43]
Isaiah Martin
That's right.
- [08:44]
Committee Chair
Please give us your testimony.
- [08:45]
Maya Wiley
Well, hello to the committee. I am Isaiah Martin. And it's very apparent that no one seems to know why we're here. It just seems as if many are just sitting here going with the emotions. And it makes sense, because the game is rigged. We already know this way the situation is going to be. Many of you that are Republicans that are looking at you, you guys understand the game. You got to get Trump's endorsement. That's the name of the game to be a Republican nowadays. And you know very clearly that Trump told every single one of you that he needs five seats is what he said. So why do we play this game where we come here to an empty chamber in which all of you pretend as if you don't know what's going on when you already know what the situation is? But the real conversation that we should be having, that I want every single one of you to understand, is that there will be a retaliation for that. You've seen states like California say that they will gerrymander Republicans out of their states. You see the same thing in Maryland. The same thing is going to happen in New York. While you were in here, Governor Kathy Hochul said that she will be gerrymandering Republicans out of their seats. The same thing is going to happen in New Jersey. So for all of the work that you guys see that you guys claim to be doing, when we should be talking about the fact that we live in a state that is unaffordable for people, our economy is wrecked. People cannot find good jobs. We literally have property taxes going up every single year, despite the fact that you Republicans have been in office for nearly 30 straight years. I mean, this is the game that we Live in right here. And you choose after we literally got after one of the worst mass casualty events in our state's history to go and gerrymander people out of their seats. That's what you have chosen to do with your time. Because you're scared of Donald Trump. You are scared and terrified because you're seeking an endorsement when you understand the truth. And the funny part about it is that you all know it's true. You can't react to it. I see you guys faces. You can't react to it. But you all know what the situation is because Donald Trump runs this body. He runs your vote. He runs your vote. He runs your vote. He runs your vote because. Because you guys know that you cannot dare cross him. And ultimately what we need in this state are people that have the cojones to actually go forward and call this stuff out. Because what you guys have done to this state is catechismically horrific. And I think that everybody across the nation should be able to go look at what you guys have done. So I look forward to Kathy Hochul getting rid of you guys as Republican friends. I look forward to Phil Murphy getting rid of your Republican friends. I look forward to Wes Moore doing the same thing. I think Andy Harris, please finish your testimony. Congressional career. He's about to be done too. All of them will be done. And you can thank your failed, senile, dilapidated Epstein partying with president for all the work that we're about to do. To every single one of you, thank.
- [11:38]
Committee Chair
You for your testimony.
- [11:39]
Maya Wiley
You caused this. And this result of you and your work.
- [11:43]
Committee Chair
No witnesses. Time has expired.
- [11:45]
Maya Wiley
I'm not finished. Because ultimately, who doesn't have a say in this are the people of this state. The 40 million people that you guys.
- [11:52]
Committee Chair
Just came witness will come to order.
- [11:54]
Maya Wiley
The people of this state.
- [11:55]
Committee Chair
The witness does not. The witness is not recognized.
- [11:58]
Maya Wiley
As a result of what you guys have done, this is a result of your policies and you have no shame.
- [12:04]
Committee Chair
Okay?
- [12:05]
Maya Wiley
You have no shame.
- [12:07]
Bishop William Barber
None.
- [12:08]
Committee Chair
The witness. The witness.
- [12:09]
Maya Wiley
No shame for what you've done. And I think that we all should be standing up here.
- [12:15]
Committee Chair
Just. Just cut off his mic. They cut us. Cut off his mic. Okay. The gentleman will come to order. We will maintain decorum. The gentleman. The gentleman will be. Will be reminded one last time. The gentleman will come to order immediately. All right. The sergeants are directed to remove the gentleman from the room.
- [12:38]
Maya Wiley
History will not remember you kindly for what you have done. They will not. Matter of fact, history might not remember you at all because of what you have done.
- [12:46]
Committee Chair
The gentlemen will be removed.
- [12:48]
Maya Wiley
You need to have shame. History will not remember you for what you have done. It is a shame.
- [12:55]
Committee Chair
Members and members of the public.
- [13:05]
Joy Reid
For.
- [13:05]
Maya Wiley
What you have done. You should all be ashamed. America will rise up against you.
- [13:14]
Joy Reid
Okay.
- [13:18]
Committee Chair
Members and members of the public.
- [13:21]
Joy Reid
Now you can hear the applause as Isaiah Martin is leaving the floor. Isaiah, that, I have to say, is what I would call getting in good trouble. Talk to me about what happened after that. You were detained because your brother then went on your IG page and was. Or it was either yours or his and said, hey, my brother's in jail. How long were you held after that?
- [13:42]
Isaiah Martin
Yeah, so 30 hours is how long I spent in jail. Spent the first four hours in solid and I guess, intake facility, per se. And then I got to my cell and. Which was basically solitary confinement for about 26 hours. So a long ordeal.
- [14:01]
Joy Reid
And what were you told that you were. Were you being arrested? Were you ever told you are under arrest?
- [14:05]
Maya Wiley
Yeah. So it was crazy.
- [14:07]
Isaiah Martin
So what happened was, you know, they told me basically to follow them out of the Capitol. So I got on this elevator and I went to the top floor, which was basically like, the outside portion, per se, and they didn't come up. And, you know, a paramedic was kind of, like, looking at my ankle because my ankle was hurt, my finger was hurt. Like all this stuff was happening.
- [14:27]
Maya Wiley
And so, like, they're looking at all.
- [14:28]
Isaiah Martin
Of this stuff, and officers thought. Or you could tell by look on their faces, like, I was just going to, you know, be told to just leave or whatever. But then the guy who tackled me, I call him Officer Pillsbury Doughboy. All right, the guy who tackled me, he gets this call. I don't know who he was talking to, but he's saying, no, no, no, no, he can't leave. And so I was like. It's interesting. He's talking on the phone, and then he runs up to me and says, you're going to be placed under arrest. And I said, what?
- [14:56]
Maya Wiley
I said, for what?
- [14:57]
Isaiah Martin
He said, resisting arrest.
- [14:59]
Maya Wiley
I said, you never told me that I was under arrest.
- [15:01]
Isaiah Martin
How can you say. I mean, that doesn't make any sense.
- [15:03]
Maya Wiley
This doesn't matter.
- [15:04]
Isaiah Martin
Basically, tell it to the judge. And they handcuffed me. They put me in jail, and they take me straight there. It was crazy.
- [15:12]
Joy Reid
And when you were released, were you told you have a court date, you're being charged with a crime?
- [15:17]
Maya Wiley
Well, no.
- [15:18]
Joy Reid
Resisting arrest.
- [15:20]
Maya Wiley
Well, so they told me that I'd.
- [15:22]
Isaiah Martin
Be charged with resisting arrest. Like, when I first. When they first put me in the car. But, you know, I didn't know actually that I would be getting out of jail, to be honest with you, because, you know, I had went probably, you know, ever since I got to my cell, I wasn't given a phone call. Like, they said that I couldn't get a phone call until after I saw the judge. So the whole time I was thinking basically that, you know, I was in a countdown to see this judge.
- [15:47]
Maya Wiley
And so, you know, they.
- [15:49]
Isaiah Martin
They go in the intercom and say, okay, Isaiah, like, you can come this way. You can, you know, come to the front. They opened the door, and I walked downstairs, and I met with a guard, right? And she says, come this way. And so I'm thinking in my head, okay, you know, because I'm running for Congress, right? So I'm like, okay, this thing is about to be everywhere. Like, of me encountering this judge. Like, I'm thinking, because I haven't showered in, like, two nights. Like, I'm, like, trying to, like, get myself together. And they basically go to the front, the first floor of the complex, and they say, okay, you're gonna make it right there, and you're going to, you know, get your stuff and you're going to go. And I said, I'm thinking to myself, like, what?
- [16:25]
Maya Wiley
But, you know, I read like, the.
- [16:26]
Isaiah Martin
48 laws of power never interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake, right? So I'm thinking, okay, we're just gonna ride with this. We'll see what happens.
- [16:33]
Maya Wiley
And so I go out and get.
- [16:34]
Isaiah Martin
My stuff, and the guy goes and he tells me, all your charges have been completely dropped. And I'm thinking, like, what? How did this happen? I walked through a door, and I see all the TV cameras outside, and I said, wow, like, this must have really popped off.
- [16:49]
Bishop William Barber
And.
- [16:50]
Isaiah Martin
Yeah, so no charges. Everything was dropped.
- [16:53]
Joy Reid
What this reminds me of is what happened with Ross Baraka, the mayor of Newark, New Jersey. Very similar. He is the mayor of the city is attempting to gain access to a private prison where migrants are being held. First he's told by the people on the other side of the fence, come over here. Because the crowd was getting really angry that they weren't allowing the members of Congress in. And he's then arrested after someone gets a call. All of a sudden, someone makes a call, and suddenly the guy who's the head of the State Department of Homeland Security just rolls right up to him. So that's very strange. I want to be in Maya Wiley before I have another question for you. But Let me bring in Maya Wiley. She's the president and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. And before I go any further, Maya, I don't know how much you were able to hear while you were getting miked up and ready to come on with us, but this arrest of Isaiah Martin for speaking at a hearing and then he's told you were being you're going to be charged with resisting arrest because he got tackled and then he was just released. Does that sound normal to you?
- [18:01]
Guest Speaker
No. And let me just say I have Mr. Martin's pleasure to be on with you. And I also saw the clips, as many of us did, Joy, where we simply heard the truth said out loud. And I think we have to say that first. You may have already covered that, but it literally is seeing someone who represents people say the truth out loud, say it plain. And it needed to be said because what's happening in Texas is outrageous. But I also want to add that sadly, what we're seeing is should shock us. It should shock us because it is outrageous. But it is not shocking because we have seen this time and time again across a variety of issues where we've seen politicians or federal agencies like ICE empowered to arrest, manhandle and mistreat elected officials. By the way, it should apply to everybody. Nobody should be manhandled, nobody should be thrown to the ground for speaking their peace and, and speaking their viewpoints. But in this instance, we've also seen it time and time again, sadly and repeatedly, where we have seen an attack on elected officials simply for saying what is obvious, simply for stating their viewpoints, simply for doing what they were elected to do. And that really is shocking.
- [19:25]
Joy Reid
Right? And Senator Padilla in California, very similar thing. He asked a question, question of Kristi Noem also got dragged out of the room and tackled. You're not in Congress yet, Isaiah Martin, but you are running. And what I've learned about you since all of this, because honestly, I followed you on TikTok, young man, I was like, this is one of my favorite TikTok follows because you just go on there and argue with these maga and they try so hard and they cannot meet your intellectual acumen. And I just find it entertaining. Found out from your TikTok that you were running for Congress. But now I have found out since then that you've worked for a member of Congress, used to work for Sheila Jackson Lee. So you kind of know what this is about. You. I know he looks very young for those watching right now, but you work for Sheila Jackson Lee, talk just a little bit about that. What did you do in that congressional office?
- [20:09]
Isaiah Martin
Yeah, you know, so I was a senior advisor. You know, for me, I started off actually by carrying her purse to events.
- [20:16]
Maya Wiley
And I worked my way up to.
- [20:18]
Isaiah Martin
Become that senior advisor. You know, it started off by me just wanting to be around her because I respected so much about all the contributions that she had done for my city and my district. And for me, I was just a very energetic young college kid who just saw this great respected member of Congress and wanted to learn. And then, you know, over time, you know, she gave me more and more responsibilities and, you know, and then she started to consult me on a lot of, like, her legislative affairs that she would do, whether it was international policy work within the district. You know, I did about 90 straight weeks of vaccinations and testings, you know, because this was really big deal going on at the time right here in the district. Did a lot of work, particularly to help when natural disasters would happen. Remember when Ted Cruz wouldn't fled off, you know, and left, you know, it was Congresswoman Jackson Lee that was doing a lot of work on the ground right there in the district. And I was working with her to get that stuff done. So, you know, I was really somebody that could one help her on the policy side of things. She always would call me to be the late night researcher, per se. But then also I worked with her, you know, on social media stuff and getting federal funds directly to people in the district, you know, to really get stuff done for people.
- [21:32]
Joy Reid
And so, and that is great, and that is the kind of experience I think that would make you an excellent congressman, in addition to your courage to just speak truth to power. I wonder, you said the room was half empty. How many of those Republicans even showed up? Was it a full panel on the other side?
- [21:46]
Isaiah Martin
No, I mean, look, it was half empty. But I'll tell you what, what really angered me throughout this whole process was the Republicans were not paying attention to anybody. I mean, they were on their phones, I mean, they were smirking and laughing. You know, you had grandmas that had driven hours to talk about how much this affected them and how much they were angry, you know, about them trying to carve up the 18th congressional district, yet people talking about how the Medicaid cuts are going to personally affect them. And Republicans are just sitting there smiling and laughing. And I thought to myself, that's absurd.
- [22:19]
Maya Wiley
It's absurd.
- [22:19]
Isaiah Martin
And so sometimes you got to just take a stand, no matter what the consequences are. And I have no regrets in doing so.
- [22:25]
Joy Reid
And what would be the impact if Texas was to redraw the entire map, effectively eliminate Democratic seats, if Democrats were not able to win the newly gerrymandered seats?
- [22:37]
Isaiah Martin
Well, the effect would be, you know, definitely more votes in Congress that are going to disenfranchise the people of our district and the state. But, you know, I have a really good feeling that so many Democratic governors across the country are going to retaliate by going after a lot of the Republicans in their states. I'm not someone who loves gerrymandering, but in this case, it is a must do situation to go get Republicans back. We have to fight fire with fire because if we don't, Republicans will take this country and run with it. We can't stand for it.
- [23:07]
Joy Reid
And that brings me back to you, Maya, because you know, what's really been kind of, I guess not shocking and not surprising at this point, given how long I've been a Democrat and observed them and their ways, is the number of Democrats that are attacking Governor Newsom, Governor Pritzker, and the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, for them saying fire or fire, then, baby, if you want to go ahead and redistrict all of the Democrats out of Texas, we'll just take all the Republicans out of California, take them out of New Jersey, take them out of New York, take them out of Illinois. What. And what's really been surprised. Well, not surprising, not surprising at all. But to me, insane is Democrats criticizing that idea. What do you say about that? I mean, first of all, is it pragmatic to do it? What would be the pragmatic obstacles to Democrats doing? I know in California, there's a constitutional, there's a constitutional provision that says that gerrymandering is supposed to be through this non, this sort of, this commission that's non partisan. But Donald Trump has rules he's supposed to follow, too. They're called, they're in the Constitution. He just ignores them and does whatever he wants. You're not supposed to be able to rendition people to a foreign country does that anyway. So why shouldn't Gavin Newsom just be like yolo, we're doing it too?
- [24:22]
Guest Speaker
Well, you know, I can't speak for Gavin Newsom. All I can say is this, what we have seen and we've seen it, remember, beginning very, very aggressively in 2008 after Barack Obama won the White House, after he turned out a coalition that was multiracial and increased voter turnout among some voters who had been voting less than we would Hope they would vote. And then we saw the Supreme Court go into action and start undermining the Voting Rights act of 1965, which is going to have its 60th anniversary this August. And that has unleashed exactly what we're seeing, an addition Supreme Court voting rights cases. Since this is the thing we have to pay attention to. We have a captured Supreme Court. It is ideological, it is extreme, and it is dismantling decisions that Congress has made that is supposed to ensure that we actually can have a rational, nonpartisan way of protecting voters ability to vote. But because that is not what we have, and because it's been growing for a very long time, because we have almost the complete, almost not quite, but almost the complete eradication of every aspect of the Voting Rights act, which frankly protects everyone, we now have to look at the other thing that the Supreme Court unleashed. Remember that the Supreme Court decided when a case was brought before it whether you could do partisan gerrymandering. And the Supreme Court said, yeah, well, we don't think that's consistent with democratic values and principles. But. But we're gonna say we can't touch that because it's a political question. We're gonna say we don't even have the jurisdiction. This is very ironic now when we're watching a Supreme Court, let's say, behave differently and not with restraint when it comes to protecting rights and protecting acts of Congress and protecting appropriations and protecting federal workers. But I say that because we actually have a Supreme Court that said we are not gonna stop you. Federal courts don't stop you from partisan gerrymandering.
- [26:28]
Joy Reid
Correct.
- [26:29]
Guest Speaker
Partisan gerrymander.
- [26:31]
Joy Reid
And so wait, so this is my point. I just want to. I want to dig a little bit deeper into this. If a state of like California even were to over override its own constitutional provision saying that gerrymandering has to be nonpartisan. And we all know that the districts are supposed to be drawn in a census year. Clearly, this is not a census year. But if they say we're setting that aside because it is an emergency, Medicaid is going to be cut, which will destroy 40 million people in the state of Texas. We cannot allow that. We cannot allow this government to impound our tax dollars to gut the Department of Education, to gut Head Start, to gut food stamps, to gut the poor, we're going to say no to that. And we're just going to redistrict now so that we can send a bigger congressional district to the House and they can maybe override Trump. Or what would the Supreme Court. I mean, I know they would just make up, but Trump didn't like it. Trump hates it.
- [27:29]
Guest Speaker
Well, this was my point about the capture court. I mean, there's a lot we have to do to get back our voting rights. We're going to be introducing, I'm going to be standing with Senators Warnock and Senator Durbin and many other senators, frankly, tomorrow, reintroducing the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement act, because we actually have to get our rights back. Now, Joy, here's your point and here's mine. When we're looking at what happened in Texas, it's Harmony Dhillon, who is this anti civil rights warrior. She's a warrior against civil rights, is now leading the civil rights division essentially of the Department of Justice. She's the one who sent the letter to Texas on July 7th claiming that there was racial gerrymandering, by which she meant by supporting the ability of black and Latinos in Texas to get their representation. We have seen the weaponization of the Department of Justice's power when it comes to states. We've seen the Trump administration working actively to basically ensure that there's voter suppression across federal elections by saying you have to show a passport or a birth certificate. I just think the point is, to your point, you know, states have to look at what they're able to do to ensure that their voters can vote and be heard on the issues that they care about. We also have to continue to fight to make sure that this regime that is no longer abiding by the Constitution, that has weaponized government against our rights, that has essentially said we will use every trick in the book to try to hold onto power, abuse it and have tyranny, we've got to fight that, too. And the way that we're going to fight that is together and by refusing to back down on fighting for our rights.
- [29:27]
Joy Reid
See it appear on your screen. The great Bishop William Barber, who I would say is probably the clearest moral voice criticizing these frankly, evil policies that we've seen in this country before. We bring him in, because I do want to bring him in. But I want to go back to Isaiah Martin for just one moment because here's my challenge with that. Yes, it's good to introduce the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, Isaiah, but you wouldn't be able to vote for that even if you got elected to Congress. That's never going to come to the floor. Speaker Johnson will never bring that to the floor. And even if it came to the floor, it wouldn't get enough Republican votes to pass so I'm concerned. Not saying Maya, but I'm saying that the Democratic Party, by saying we're going to have a press conference about a voting rights bill that will never pass and will never become law, I guess that's fine, but I feel like the fight needs to be a little bit. We need to be more in the streets, right? Like just from a strategic point of view. You seem to agree with me that we need to do something different, that we need to play a little bit more hard. And I don't know if you're there on screen, but Isaiah, what do you make of that? More hardball or try to follow the rules?
- [30:34]
Bishop William Barber
I think Isaiah's off camera.
- [30:35]
Joy Reid
Okay, Isaiah, off camera. I think we have lost him just for the moment.
- [30:38]
Guest Speaker
Jerry, can I just make one point about this, because I think you're absolutely right, that this isn't just doing press conferences. What we have been demanding for Democrats to do is to make the demands and to use their bully pulpits to make clear what's happening in this country and to do something about it. And that's in addition to what we have to do. And what we have to do is make sure we're doing all the hard work to get people engaged in fighting for their rights, like the reverend Dr. Barber is doing. And there are many, many other ways in which it's happening. Labor unions are coming out. Labor Day. We just had the John Lewis Goode trouble activations across this country. But the reason I'm saying that is that is about having our feet in the street and demanding something different and building our power to do it. So I don't think it's about. I think we just can't see the power of the bully pulpit. We have to continue to demand our rights and use that as the public education that we have to also expand our tent as we do exactly what you're talking about, which is.
- [31:43]
Joy Reid
I totally hear you good, sister. But let me ask you very quickly before I bring Bishop Barbara in, let's just say California, maybe if they couldn't even do it, Illinois, New York and New Jersey were to go ahead and redistrict mid district, and they were to send four or to eight or ten more Democrats to the House and to help override and overrule the Republican majority. Could those people who took office go ahead and begin to vote and let it play out in court? Couldn't they just go ahead, redistrict, get more Democrats in, vote for some things that would actually change things, you know, living wages, vote to overturn some of these gerrymanders, vote to overturn some of these horrible things that were in that budget and then just let the Republicans fight it out in court. Well, they can.
- [32:35]
Guest Speaker
The issue isn't where they can. The issue is what's happening right now as we see Republicans in the House refusing to do anything in appropriations process that allows a real process. We're going to see the impacts of these harms coming very soon because we're going to see states already faced with how they're going to balance their budgets now because those cuts are coming thanks to this big ugly bill after the 2026 midterm. So I think we have a lot of work to do across a variety of streams, including making sure people know exactly what's not just what's coming, but what they have to do in their states to prevent it and what kind of pressure they also have to bring to their state electeds. And that includes Republicans and that includes how we're organizing as broadly as we can. So I just am living in the life of we got pain coming now and we want to activate people now.
- [33:29]
Joy Reid
We're hoping that we can get Isaiah Martin back. I think his signal drops. So we're going to wait until we hopefully get him back in just for a few more minutes. But in the meantime, let me play this video of Bishop William Barber, one of the suicide sermons that he gave recently laying out the moral case for fighting back. And here is this video from Bishop Parker.
- [33:51]
Bishop William Barber
Cerebral palsy in a wheelchair holding her Bible. And they were ordered to arrest us for praying that they would listen to God and not to grieve in the return. We carried 51 caskets last Monday because 51,000 people will die this year from what was passed and sign them on July 4th. One done the 4th of July. Are we watching an attempt to rewrite?
- [34:31]
Joy Reid
Bishop WILLIAM Barber, welcome to the show. And it is a moral Monday. So I'm glad that you are here. It's technically not the first Monday of the month, but we said we just adjusted the calendar because we want to talk to you today. Bishop, what do you make of this question? Because, you know, I guess for Democrats, the moral question is whether to break the rules in order to fix the problem. And the rules say that they should be for nonpartisan gerrymandering. Democrats have been for that for a long time, but it seems to me that they have backed down from a fight when Republicans haven't backed down at all and are still breaking all the rules and they're about to do it In Texas.
- [35:04]
Bishop William Barber
Well, first of all, Joy, thank you. Looking forward to this moral Monday time with you. And thank you to my brother who was willing to speak out and keep speaking. And what he did is model something that we have to understand this moral moment. Let me do a little history first. Democrats in North Carolina, every fight we had over redistricting prior to 2012 was against Democrats. So let's not act like Democrats always followed the rules. They followed black folk and they wanted to have enough blacks in districts to get elected, but not enough for blacks. So I just want you to know that since 1965 in North Carolina, every time we fought, we fought Democrats because they always check. One thing was race. Now what the Republicans have done is taken it to the nth level. Let's own that. Secondly, we have to own that Democrats, when they had both the houses and the presidency since June 25, 2013, did not pass the Voting Rights act restoration. You just, we can't walk past that. They had it and they didn't, even when Obama was there. And they had the House and the Senate. And that's tragic. And they have to own that because owning that is going to tell them what they need to do now. And then lastly, when they had the majority with Biden and Kamala and the House, they didn't do living wages. Eight Democrats joined the Republicans in the Senate and blocked living wages. And the rumor is they didn't want Vice President Harris to be able to run for president and say, I was the deciding vote on passing a living wage. All right. I mean, that's, that's out there. They didn't do the Voting Rights Act. So we have to decide this is a moral moment. You just said, well, if California was to pass and add some seats, they ought to do it. They ought to do it and test it in court. Right. It's not illegal. But remember, when you're talking about moral things, St. Augustine said an unjust law is no law at all. So we are required to challenge an unjust law in this moment that we're in. And I'm convinced of that. We're headed to Mississippi for another 12 state moral Monday. Yes, we have to have activation in the street, but it can't be what we used to do. One thing and then we go home. When we did Morrow Monday in North Carolina and we had Pat McCrory was, was Trump and the legislature was MAGA. Back then, of course, it was Tea Party. They had the majority, super majority every Monday for two years, 2,000 people got arrested. But what Jim Lawson, when I talked to him about it, he said you're not doing this because you're going to win one Monday. Miraculously. You're doing this to educate the public, to bring a coalition together and to keep people angry until they get to the election. So you add to what you're doing in the street your legal battles and your voting registration and motivation because the truth of the matter is joy, Take for instance Georgia. I think Trump won by something a little bit less than what, 14, 15,000 votes. We have to own that there are over a million black people in Georgia that Elizabeth didn't even know. And when you talk about poor and low wage folk, look at the study that Celinda Lake just came out with with way to win this past week. They said of the 19 million people that left the Harris Biden ticket didn't vote. The number one reason they didn't vote was they said they heard no clarity about addressing poverty and low wages. This is a recent study. So I think the other thing Dems need to do is not have a press conference on, on one bill. Why don't they put together a omnibus package. We, we have one in the center and they're called third reconstruction and lay out everything they will do if they get power again in the first 50 days, in the first 50 days and, and push that, put it, let them vote it now. But then people will understand next year when you're going to vote. This is what you're fighting for. This is what you're fighting for. People are no longer going to say that. People just get elected and then tell you what, tell us what you're going to do. Say right now if you give us the House and the Senate. Not in the first hundred days, in the first 50 days. This is all the things that we're going to vote on and throw to Trump and force him to veto. That's the kind of challenge we have to do. And then lastly, I know I'm talking a little longer a brother when he kept speaking. We are going to have to go to these hearings and do the same thing. Masses of people keep speaking. Let them arrest you for disrupting, be willing to take the charge like we did in the rotunda. This is not a time that we can walk in fear. We have a group called Save America Movement and in a few weeks, Joel, we're releasing in California liberty vans that are going to have a veteran in it, an immigrant, a chaplain, a TV camera crew to directly film ice in what they're doing. Now I know that's Risky, but this is the time we're in. This is the time we're in. And we cannot, in this moment, step backwards. We've got to step forward. And whatever we do, once you do it, you got to keep doing it. You can't have one. One action. You have to keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it, and keep doing it.
- [40:48]
Joy Reid
Amen to that. I've kept Isaiah and Maya way over time, so I'm gonna. Isaiah, I want to let you. Before we let you go, and thank you for coming back. I know you have a little bit of a tech issue for a moment, but you are back. What would. What do you want to do in Congress? Like, what is it that you want to do? You just heard some praise from Bishop Barber, which is actually a pretty. Pretty incredible thing to receive, and you earned it and deserve it. But what is it that you. What you would want to do as a member of Congress?
- [41:13]
Isaiah Martin
Well, first off, you know, I'm just. Couldn't be more humble. You know, Bishop Barber is somebody who has been through the front lines for a very long time, and I really do appreciate that. You know, look, I know that I kind of had those tech issues for a second, but, you know, look, I think that, you know, we got to understand that the Republican Party is coming for us with everything they've got. And the same thought of playing by an imaginary set of rules that Republicans are not holding themselves to. It's just simply not how we're going to get out of that. So that's why I've been talking about what I call Operation Get Back for blue states to gerrymander Republicans the exact same way that they're doing us. And honestly, a lot more aggressively. That means calling on states like California to go forward and get rid of their independent redistricting committees. The same thing must apply to Colorado. I know Colorado hasn't been talked about a lot, but Colorado has a blue state with a blue trifecta, with a complete blue state that if we were to get rid of that committee, we could net a lot of seats. JB Pritzker has been talking about that. New York. We need to be going on a full wave encouraging blue states to use their leverage, because ultimately, we can talk about these things, about what we want to do, you know, because ideally, there would be no gerrymandering. But at the end of the day, if Republicans are not under any pressure whatsoever to go forward and do something to fix this issue, they're going to continue to screw US year after year after year. So I look forward to continuing those calls. But then also my big priority when I get to Congress is talking about how we can make America more affordable. Because the simple fact is, is that our agenda cannot just be anti Donald Trump. And then the second we get in there, we don't do enough to elevate the lives of ordinary people. So that means guaranteeing health care, guaranteeing child care, creating a side hustle fund for folks to go start off their first small business as well, going in and making tuition free community colleges and trade schools a thing in this country. So that as we are getting more jobs that are coming into the future, we absolutely can train people for those jobs. Yes, that means raising the minimum wage, but then also tying it to the cost of living so we're not waiting 10 years for a minimum wage increase as well. We have to be very focused on how we're going to make America more affordable. And that starts with policies that puts more dollars in the pockets of regular.
- [43:28]
Bishop William Barber
People in this country.
- [43:30]
Joy Reid
Where can people find you online other than your Twitter, your TikTok feed, which is actually.
- [43:34]
Isaiah Martin
Absolutely. They can find me@isaiah martin.org Isaiah H M A R T I N.org you can chip into the campaign, sign up to volunteer. And the last thing that I'll say, this has been such a big honor. You know, I know my parents are smiling because, you know, we used to watch it every single night. So I mean, this is truly, you know, in a lot of ways a dream come true. So I'm just really appreciative for you.
- [43:57]
Joy Reid
Well, I appreciate you. You are welcome to come back anytime. And I hope that everyone in Texas will be wise enough to send you to Congress. You would be a breath of fresh air. There's some good ones in there. We need another, another injection of hope and ideas and brilliance. So, Isaiah Martin, thank you very much. Much appreciated. Mai Wiley, my friend, my soror, love you, says thank you very much. Appreciate both of you being here. Thank you.
- [44:24]
Guest Speaker
Be well.
- [44:25]
Joy Reid
Thank you. And look, Isaiah was just on with Maia Wiley and Bishop Barber. Bishop, that's a pretty big deal. I think if I was a young man like him, I would feel pretty good about it. But I mean, that is the kind of leadership we want, right? I mean, Isaiah Martin is young, he's got new ideas. It doesn't feel like that's the kind of leadership that Democrats want. They seem to push back against those kinds of leaders. They seem to be annoyed at them rather than embrace them. You're seeing it with Mamdani in New York, where it feels like the whole Democratic establishment is trying to figure out a way to get back Cuomo instead of him. What do you think that's about?
- [45:05]
Bishop William Barber
Well, you know, there was an article right after the election and then there was a video by Steve Bannon. And he said one of the reasons they challenged Democrats in this moment and they agreed that this was the moment is because they looked at the ages and the energy of Democrats in the House and in the Senate and they said, as you notice, they've been putting younger and younger people in. Republicans have been strategically on the courts in Congress and Senate. Younger and younger people. Now, I'm not doing an ageism kind of thing. That's not what I'm talking about. But what they said was we are going to bombard the Senate and the House in such a way that people just can't keep up because they don't have the energy, the stamina. Right. But more important than aids, this brother just laid out, this is what I'm going to do in the south, in the south, where actually there is a power base to be built among poor and low wage people that where in Texas, if just 20, I think 13 or 14% of poor, no wage people who did not vote were to vote last time, they would out distance the margin that Trump had and it's all over. So we need that kind of, we need our wisdom, we need people to bend there. But Democrats should be shooting themselves in the foot when they get candidates that, that have the right issues, the right agenda. But then for some reason they don't want you. You know, they should learn Republicans don't do that. If they do anything, they stick together. They stick together.
- [46:42]
Joy Reid
You know, if Republicans. Bishop Barber, I'm sorry to cut you. If Republicans had Jasmine Crockett, she would never get off tv. If they had Jasmine Crockett, who's also from Texas, she would be on Fox every hour on the hour. They did it with Pam Bondi when they decided Pam Bondi was the right spokesman for them. I'm not sure I can think of anything Pam Bondi's ever said that's ever impressed me. But she was on TV every second. Every second. So by the time she became Attorney General, everybody that's a Republican knew who she was because they saw on Fox every minute. But with Jasmine, with Representative Crockett, they say, oh, you know, she might be too hot for us. She might be too. We can't give her a gavel. Well, why not? I don't I don't get it.
- [47:21]
Bishop William Barber
Yeah, well, that's my point. You know, King said one time that the moderates were the worst enemy to the civil rights movement because they were more interested in order than they were interested in progress and pushing. And we see that the Republicans will stand with somebody. They allow them to make mistakes. They'll forgive them and keep as long as they're sticking with the agenda. Instead, what Democrats would do is if you stumble, they'll walk away from you too often, and. And they, and, and they get scared when you're strong. But this is the moment. We need strength. We need the Crockers. We need Isaiah. We need persons who are willing to challenge what is going on in a forward. In other words, we need David. We don't need the other six sons of Jesse.
- [48:07]
Joy Reid
Yeah, we need David.
- [48:08]
Bishop William Barber
I'm gonna deal with Goliath, and I'm gonna challenge Goliath.
- [48:12]
Joy Reid
You've got Ayanna Pressley, Summer Lee. You've got all these incredible progressives that are just so good. I. I want to play you something else because this piece of video. I don't know if we have this video of the arrest. I played it the other day on the show, and it's one of the most impactful things that I've seen. I reposted it online. Do we have this video of the ICE arrest in New. Impacted me so much. But it isn't just that. It goes on and on and on. At the end, there's an older Caribbean woman who says, that could have been me. And she's weeping in the hallway because she says, that could be me. This seems to me to be such an easy layup for Democrats. They should. There are some, and I have to tell, that are being really smart and really proactive and really fighting this and getting arrested for it. The senator in California, Padilla, you know, Ras Baraka, who for whatever reason, Democrats decided should not be the nominee for governor in New Jersey, although he has stood up and put his body on the line to stop that. People who are speaking out against that quote, unquote alligator Alcatraz, the concentration camp that Ron DeSantis has created in Florida. Lots of local elected officials, state elected officials and congressmembers stood up about that. So there are some people speaking. But to me, I feel like this is an outrage that's even made Trump's immigration policy less popular with Republicans.
- [50:04]
Bishop William Barber
Exactly.
- [50:05]
Joy Reid
Why is this not more? Why is this not ending support for this man?
- [50:13]
Bishop William Barber
Well, you know, first of all, because it's rooted in so much of this attitude by the MAGA group that they imagine this world is behind us, that they're trying to get back to. And secondly, because they look at immigrants and as and stopping immigrants through a prism of them being voting and having power, but not voting for them. That's very real. They are very afraid of the shifting demographics in terms of voting. But in addition to that, look at that image again, Joy. What it shows us, masked men doing this. Masked. Now we know that that is the Klan slave patrols. That image is saying something to a whole group of people that want this past to be present. Right? And Trump is their messiah, their leader in this. And MAGA is the key to getting it done. And they think that if they stay there, then people will ignore the other issues. What we should be doing is connecting what they're doing to the immigrants, to everything else, the same people. And because it's so wrong, undemocratic, unconstitutional. The church and I want to talk about religious folk. This is the time we have to put on our religious garb. And that man or those people should not get arrested alone. That's the time when. And it shouldn't be just one person. Imagine if they did that and there were 100 clergy that said, arrest us too. Right. Every time. Or imagine if churches and mosque and synagogues said, come to our sanctuary. And it's going to be a sanctuary. And if they do this, we're going to force them to be filmed coming inside of the sanctuary in the church. This is the moment we're in. This is the moment. And it's going to take that kind of courage, which is why, as I was saying to you, in a few weeks, we're releasing the Save America movement, these liberty vans that will be, you know, starting California, across the country, that are going to be directly challenging what ICE is doing in film. You cannot allow this to happen. And, you know, if the shoe was on the other foot and you were doing this to MAGA folk, they would be standing up. The religious nationalists would be all industry, right? They would be there. So this is not a moment that we can see this and say, it's just so bad. No, no, we have to engage. That's why, as I told you on August 18th, we're going to Mississippi, to the senator's office again with caskets and impacted people right in the heart of the South. And what's amazing, Joy, is the people calling us are white and black and brown, and we're putting a focus on it, and we're going to continue to do it. And I don't know if they're going to arrest us or not, but what I know is we have to arrest the attention of the nation. And we have to arrest in such a way that doesn't just say this is bad, but that we can do something about it. We literally have to start talking to people now about the power we have. I hope you and I on one of your shows can go back through those numbers to show people what could happen if we engage the folk that sat out of the last election, what really could happen, but this, for some reason, MAGA believes that by doing this, they are saving themselves, and they are saving themselves from this coming black, brown and progressive white coalition. And the truth of the matter, it is coming. And the truth of the matter is when it comes, they won't have the demographics to do, and it is going to change the country. The question we have to ask is, when it comes, first of all, we don't need to wait for it to come. We need to push it into existence. But when it comes, will they have so ruined the government and ruined the power structures that, like Mandela, you end up getting a power structure that's broken.
- [54:26]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [54:27]
Bishop William Barber
Or broken or defunded. And no, no resources.
- [54:30]
Joy Reid
And broke, broke and broken. I mean, my question, too, right, is that, you know, maga, to your point, they're protecting a guy who I'm sitting here looking, going through these files and getting nauseated every day, reading these Epstein old charging documents. They're willing to still protect this guy, the guy who is. Whose administration, whose regime, whose Department of Justice is still protecting the files of, we don't know how many actual child predators and people who preyed on. And they say that this is something important to them, but they're still protecting Trump, who is protecting this list and who will not allow this list to come out. And at the same time, they're calling trans people perverts. They're saying that LGBTQ people shouldn't be able to teach in school. They're doing all of that. But they don't mind this. The guy who's stopping this truth from coming out, from doing what he's doing. And on top of that, I have to talk about this one other thing that's on the Met. Well, I'll let you comment on that, because we do have this thing where they're saying the big moral crisis is that Trump over, at least Epstein files, but the same people saying that still support him.
- [55:36]
Bishop William Barber
Yeah, well, you know, Tim Tyson did a book on the woman who lied on Emmett Till. And in the course of that research, he, one of the things he found out is that wherever you find people who are deeply racist, you also find a lot of abuse of women and abuse of children, you know, and sexual perversion. In other words, if, if you listen to them, the longer they talk, what they're doing, a lot of times criticizing other people, they're actually projecting what they're engaged in. You remember when all of these senators were against gay people and all of a sudden it started coming out or when they were talking about Bill Clinton and then, and then the guy who owned one of the porn magazines said, I'll give you a million dollars if you tell on people and it all start coming out, you know, but, but, but in the midst of this, as you said, who they will protect and why are they willing to protect them, them? Because at the end of the day for them, take, they're being fooled by the oligarchy that somehow if you give to the oligoth, they're going to be better. Right. It's the same way that Dr. King said that when in the south, he said that when they had nothing else, they would feed poor whites the stale bread of racism. When they wouldn't put food in their hungry stomachs, they would feed them with racism, they would feed them with homophobia. They would feed them. And that same thing is happening today. And, and, and, and, and they are saying basically, I don't, I'm not worried about these files. What I really want is this old world and, and, and the dream of an old world, the dream of some safe place behind us. The dream of that is a nightmare. And it will, and, and you know, I said the other day, and I'm gonna start, racism and classism are forms of insanity. Literally, it's just insane. And when you buy into that stuff, it will make you do things that ultimately is going to hurt you too. I mean, take that bill, the so called big beautiful bill. And there's two problems I have with that. One is that the people that supported the people that pasted it's coming to you, it's going to kill you, it's going to close your rural hospital, your family members are going to die. But when you're so blinded by the insanity of classism and racism and this old world that you want to get back to, you actually end up hurting your own self.
- [58:21]
Joy Reid
And the thing that's so wild about that Bishop Barber is this obsession with the border. Now Donald Trump claims he, he's shut the border down so they shouldn't care about the border anymore, but they're still banging on about the border, the border, the border. People who've come in the country illegally, they need to do it the right way. And yet the people who are doing it the right way at their immigration hearings are also getting nabbed by masked men, which we just showed in that clip. But also these people, the same people who are screaming about the border want cheap tomatoes, they want cheap lettuce, they want cheap meats. But they don't understand that those same people, they want to run out of the country are the ones who are picking the lettuce, picking the tomatoes, working in the meatpacking factory. And then when those things don't happen and they're not cheap anymore, they're going to be screaming the loudest that they can't afford food. The same people who want to get rid of immigrants are the same people with farms. And they say, well, we hate USAID because that's just Marxism and communism. Turns out half of their income from their farm came from USAID that was buying their produce to send all over the world. MAGA is getting these mag, I call it hashtag maga. Consequences. They're getting these consequences. They don't like it, but they still can't get off the idea that there's something wrong with these non white migrants. These immigrants gotta go. And they, and literally I have seen so many videos of people saying, well, I didn't think the prices were going to go up. I didn't think I was going to get tariffs. I just hate the border. I just hate that, that BIDEN Let in 10 million people. And my pushback to them is, let's say Biden Let in 20 million. Those 20 million people are picking your food, taking care of your kids, cleaning up your house, mowing your lawn, opening businesses and probably employing you. You're probably only working because those people came here. So you're saying, let's say it was 30 million people. Those 30 million people are putting money in Social Security so you can retire. And they don't even get Social Security. They don't get Medicare, but they're paying for your Medicare. I just generally don't understand, understand it, which is why I think you're right, it isn't enjoy.
- [60:15]
Bishop William Barber
Not only that you're having farmers now, the rate of suicide is going up because of foreclosures and they can't afford. And, and, and they're, and, and yet some of them, not all of them are with this MAGA push. But I Don't think, Joy, We've, well, we, We've never really probed the depths, and this is a moral thing, philosophically, of what damage it does to a society when you build your history on lies, and you keep telling the same lies over and over again. So, for instance, you against people, immigrants. But you're an immigrant, right? I mean, Trump is not a Native American name, right? So you're an immigrant. His wife is an immigrant. You claim that you want this world and, and, and honest, say the Civil War, but you, you don't want to remember that the, the, the people that owned the plantation sold out the poor white folk and made it so that their sons didn't have. Now, I know this is a history lesson, but my point is when you have sown lies, just so many lies, you claim to be the ones that built the country, and you don't want to acknowledge if it wasn't for the immigrants and the slave, the country would not have been built. You claim that you pull yourself up by your own bootstrap, but then you don't want to own the history of all the free land that was given out and the homesteader. So what we have in this, in this iteration of history is the lies on top of lies. There's a scripture in the Bible, Joy, it's a hard one. It says a dog will always return to its vomit. And in a sense, what MAGA is doing is returning to a vomit. It's returning to lies. It's returning. Eisenhower tried the same thing when he did Operation Wetback after we had used Latino people and Mexican people to sustain the workforce. And particularly at the end of World War I, the Korean War, he decided that one of the things he was going to do was put a million people on barges and send them down to Mississippi and send them back as a political. That's what he said. So this is us. It's not new. It is as American as America. But there's another side of America, too. And that is when people have joined together across lines and said no to this kind of evil and wrong. And this is the moment that we're in. This is our test. This is our test. If we can help people understand that if the same people that are attacking immigrants are also the same people attacking public education and attacking health care and attacking living wages and giving money to the wealthy and taking it from you, if they are mean enough to come together, we better be smart enough to come together and stand against them as a fusion movement and not in our individual silos.
- [63:12]
Joy Reid
Amen Mr. Barber. And I've kept you over time, too. But I'm going to just one more thing before I let you go. I have to get into this just for a moment because I want to come back to the Democrats just for one moment. And everybody, thank you all for staying with us a little bit over time. We really appreciate you hanging in. This is one of the beautiful things about independent media. We can go a little bit over our hour and we don't have to worry that there's another show coming on behind us on the backside. So we're a couple more minutes here, just a couple more minutes, because I have to put this picture up. This is from the New York Times. Because there is another issue that I think Democrats actually are quite shameful on, and that is the issue of Gaza. And I think you talked about the people who did not vote in the previous election. Some of them didn't vote because, as you said, they didn't hear an economic message that spoke to them that said, I'm going to be able to survive if these people take over if the Democrats stay in power. But also, there was a lot of real anger about what was happening in Gaza. And now what's happening in Gaza is even worse. This is what's happening not just to the people of Gaza who are literally starving to death right now, but the doctors. That last clip, when you can see this woman weeping, it says here that doctors themselves, the doctors in Gaza, are famished to the point that they have dizzy spells as they make their rounds, Medics say, and journalists documenting their caseloads are often too weak to even walk into the clinics. The, the, the people. You can see these. And these are horrific pictures.
- [64:32]
Bishop William Barber
Yeah, they are.
- [64:33]
Joy Reid
The children are the ones who are starving first. They obviously need more nutrition. They need extra nutrition. These children can't breathe. Their immune systems are collapsing. These children are literally dying for no reason. And then when there is some food drop, people are desperately thrashing to try to get a little bit of rice, a little bit of food, and they're getting shot at by the idf, who even a US Troop, a US Soldier, admitted they're watching them shoot at these people as they're trying to get food. It is a clear, deliberate attempt by Bibi Netanyahu's administration to starve Gazans out of Gaza, to eliminate them, to ethnically cleanse them so they can take their land. And so my question is for the Democratic Party, who will not support Mr. Mamdani, who's pledging to do what you're talking about he wants to make New York affordable. He wants living wage, he wants affordable groceries. But they're hanging on to the fact that he supports Gaza, that he wants Gaza to be liberated, that he wants Gaza to have freedom. And so therefore he's not good enough. Right. They rather have Cuomo than him. And Democrats simply don't. Biden couldn't do it. What is going on on the Democratic side when they cannot embrace the idea of basic humanity when it comes to Palestinian who are Muslims and Christians?
- [65:56]
Bishop William Barber
Well, you know, on our show, your show, we had Muslim, Christian and Jewish clergy. Remember that challenging what was going on. And here's you just said it at the last sentence. There is a place in politics where you have to decide if you're going to be a human being or merely a partisan. Check the polls, individual. That's just basic morality. You know, when you look at those pictures, there is no reason that you should not be criticizing and calling out this ethnic cleansing and this death and destruction and demanding that every bit of power, whether private or public or both, should be utilized to stop what is going on. But you got to decide. And that's a sole question that Democrats, they're going to have to decide who are we? Not after we check the polls, but who are we as a party? Do we let 800 people die a day in this country from poverty and not address it? Do we allow what we see in Gaza and not address it because we check some phony pole or we're scared we're going to get some criticism from Maga or Trump? At some point you have to decide that I'm going to be a moral human being and I'm not going to find a way to excuse my morality away. But I would also argue joy and I was on. I just heard something before I got on and bothered me. I was listening to a group of preachers and they were talking about, for instance, some of the issues and one of them said we didn't know this was happening. And I almost lost it. I want to just say what you mean you didn't know. I wouldn't dare be a clergy today or a leader of church and admit, well, we didn't know the bill was this bad. We didn't really know what was going on in Gaza. It is your job to know as a clergy person, as a moral leader, it is your job to read beyond the headlines. It is your job to be students. It is your job to engage in public theology. It is not your job just to merely have a praise party. And have people come in on Sunday and give it an offering. No. You literally are required to speak to the death of our time. And you can't claim ignorance. You just can't. And that is something that, that I raised in a sermon yesterday. What if every denomination just say the Christian domination, the progressive folk, every one of them and every bishop and every leader would put down the ego of their group and say, we're all going say to D.C. and engage in the most massive moral civil disobedience ever. Consistently, because we're not taking this. And I had a student of mine yesterday say that they were in a conversation and they with a preacher and the preacher had preached a sermon about immigration in Gaza. And that person's bishop told them, you can say that, but I can't because I have to manage the denomination. Let me just say, and I'm a bishop too. Any leader that feels like the way to hold your position in this moment is you have to manage the denomination. You are just as bad as those religious leaders that wrote Dr. King when he was in the Birmingham jail and would not stand up. You're just as bad at those who sat on the side while Pharaoh wreaked havoc. It is the time for us to own who we are supposed to be. And I dare say to the church, we all got our flaws. But in this moment, we will be held under incredible judgment if we have not stood up in this moment, whether it's Gaza, whether it's what's happening to immigrants, whether it's health care. And you will not be able to claim ignorance.
- [70:30]
Joy Reid
Amen. Bishop William Barber, repairs of the breach Moral Mondays. My friend, I appreciate you so much. We are going to do this at the top of the month, every single month, because we want to try to get our moral house in order. We want to get our souls right so that we can be prepared for a full month battle against evil, because that is what we're battling. Bishop Barber, thank you. I always appreciate you, my friend.
- [70:52]
Bishop William Barber
Thank you. Take care. Thank you.
- [70:54]
Joy Reid
Thank you. I appreciate it. You guys know that that is going to be a once a month thing. We're going to do that at the top of every month. We, we're calling this the top of the month. We do understand this is the bottom of the month of July, but we are actually going to be hitting the road. We've got some travel coming up and so I wanted to make sure that we got our moral Monday moment in now so that we can be prepared for the month of August because it's Going to be tough. This is a very difficult period that we're seeing in this country. But I think Bishop Barber made the point. I think that Isaiah made the point. I think Maya made the point. We have to think and fight differently. We cannot, we cannot attack this problem in the traditional way. Traditional means are not good enough, they're not strong enough. And they're not going to work against Trump, who fights an asymmetric battle every day. He never fights according to the rules. He and maga. The only rules that they're fighting according to are Project 2025, because they're just opening Project 2025 and just acting out of that. They're just following those rules, but they don't follow the rules. Rules, the Constitution, the rule of law. If you had a, a problem right now and you needed federal intervention, who are you going to call? The FBI? That's Cash Patel. They work for Trump. You think the DOJ is going to help you if you have a problem and you want federal intervention? The DOJ works for Trump. There is no doj. For all intents and purposes, there is no nih. You think there's going to be more vaccines coming out to save your kid from the next vaccine, from the next pandemic? That's not going to happen. It's now Robert F. Kennedy Jr's weird ideology running our healthcare. There essentially is no federal government. This. I cannot say this strongly enough. Effectively, Donald Trump has turned the federal government off. There is no federal government to speak of. Not to protect you, not to protect the things that you think are important, not to protect immigrants, not to add a rule of law that's in between you and deportation. Technically, maybe not to protect a citizen from being deported. We talked on the last show about citizens getting deported, sometimes sent to third party countries they've never been to. And do you think the Supreme Court, John Roberts and them, Alito Thomas, you think they're going to save you? They're not. Because all they're interested in is having the king of their choosing. And they've got him and they're not going to do anything to protect you from him. So it's time for asymmetric warfare. And I say this all the time, you guys, it's one of my many sayings. I. When someone declares war on you, you are at war. And MAGA has declared war on you. They declared war on multicultural America. They've declared war on non white immigrants. They've declared war on the LGBTQ community. They declare war on women. They declared war on blacks. For sure, but also brown folks. Also, Aapi, if you are not a white, conservative, Christian man, they've declared war on you and they're going to keep making war until you stop them. And so I would call on the Democrats. If you are a Democrat in a blue state that's got what you call a trifecta, meaning you have the governorship, you have the state house and the state Senate, and you're not making a plan right now to gerrymander that state against Republicans, you're not doing it right because you're not fighting the war. You've decided that you're going to pretend you're not at war every single blue state. If you're not calling your lawyers in to find out if you can impound the money that you would normally send to Washington and say, if you're not going to spend our money on the poor, the sick, the elderly, the needy, if you're not going to do that, you're going to steal our money and spend it building concentration camps in Florida. You can't have our money. We're going to impound our money and keep. In California, the blue states pay all the bills anyway. Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, these states couldn't survive without California. They couldn't survive without blue state money. New York is paying their bills. Illinois is paying their bills. New Jersey is paying their bills. The only red state that pays its own way is Texas, because they have oil. Maybe Alaska, I think Alaska, but they're a socialist state. They give everybody a check just for living there out of the oil money. So other than Texas and Alaska, every red state is a taker. They take the money from California, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Illinois, and they spend it to destroy immigrants in their state, to allow ICE to raid their farms and to raid the schools and to show up at preschool graduation. If a blue state is going to just let them do that and not fight back in every way possible and don't worry about it. Let Trump sue you, take action and let them go to the Supreme Court. By the time that winds its way to the court, you will have already implemented the change we need. So that. That's it. That's my opinion. Please feel free to disagree. I'm not talking about it, but my idea is fight fire with fire. I think Isaiah Martin agrees with me. I want to thank all of our guests. Isaiah Martin, if you are in Texas, please register to vote and make sure that you vote for him. If you're in that district, make sure that if you're in one of these gerrymandered districts that they're going to change and try to make it more Republican. That you tell a friend, tell a foe. If you have to get everyone you know to go out and make sure that they don't take those seats away. Because if they lock themselves in in the United States Congress and they lock themselves in in the Senate and that becomes semi permanent. We're in the Handmaid's Tale, fam. They're going to be able to do the worst things possible. And the last thing I will add to that is one of the things that they've, that they could do, they've already said they're going to do. The person who runs the Department of Agriculture said on camera that the 37 million people who receive Medicaid are perfectly available to replace the deported brown people in the fields. Hear what you're hearing, see what you're seeing. I'm not making it up. It's on tape. Thank you all for watching the Joy Reach show. I got a big, really great announcement. On Friday of this week, we are going to do our first members only chat. And that is for our premium members who are here on YouTube, subscribed here on a premium basis. But also that's the Team TJRS folks. If you're, if you're Team tjrs, you're going to be part of that chat. And also if you are a subscriber over on Substack. Hello to all the folks watching on Substrack. I need to hail you guys up. A lot more people are watching live, both on substack and on YouTube at the same dag on time, which we love. So we're going to do a Team TJRS super chat. On Friday, 8:15, we're gonna chat with y', all, see what you guys have to ask me. We're gonna do a full Q A. Ask me anything. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're going to hang out together. We've got more good premium goodies coming up from T, our Team TJRS people and, and all of you guys who have saying we want merch, merch is coming. We are working on the merch store right now. But we want to make sure that the items in the merch store are good quality before we let you buy them. So we are ordering the stuff that we have looked at ourselves to make sure that it is great quality because we want you guys to only have the best because you deserve it. We love you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in to The Joy Reacho. And guess what? We will be back on Wednesday. Have a good one. Oh, don't forget to subscribe. Oh, wait a minute. I forgot an important thing. Make sure that you subscribe. Don't be a lurker. If you are here watching this show, you need to subscribe. Subscribe. Subscribe. The subscribing is free. Team TJRS cost you like eight bucks a month. It's not even that expensive. But if you want to subscribe, that is free. Tell a friend. Tell a friend. Hit that share button. Make sure that you tell everyone you know that they should subscribe. Support independent media. If you guys want independent media to thrive, you have to support it. So make sure that you subscribe to this channel. Hit the little bell thing so that you always know when we're live, particularly when we have like breaking news and stuff like that. Want to know that that's happening. So subscribe. Share. Hit that like button. Let us know you love this content. And now we will see you on the next the Joy Re show. Bye bye. SA Tipping culture is out of control. Yesterday I tipped someone just for handing me a napkin. So when hotels.com gives me up to.
- [79:22]
Guest Speaker
20% off for being a member, I finally get tipped. And you know what?
- [79:25]
Joy Reid
It feels good. Hotels.com members save up to 20% off at hundreds of thousands of hotels.