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- [00:01]
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- [00:39]
Joy Reid
Hello and welcome to this special episode of the Joy Reid Show. With American democracy on the decline and the Democratic Party left as the only major viable political party that can fight back on a national level, it has never been more important who those Democrats are. Are they willing to fight hard for the people or are they willing to conciliate with the other side, sometimes to our detriment? Also, who do they answer to? To you or to some special interest? These are the kinds of questions you should be asking as you go to vote this year or next year, presuming we still have free and fair elections. Just saying. Well, for 32 years for the primarily African American citizens of Missouri's first congressional district, that representative was Bill Clay, a founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus who was elected in 1968 and served until 2000, when he was succeeded by his son, William Lacy Clay Jr. He held the seat for 10 terms until 2020, when a political earthquake interrupted the Clay dynasty as a nurse. The daughter of an alderman, single mom and activist named Cori Bush, whose activism was nurtured in the Michael Brown protests, defeated Lacy Clay Jr. In the Democratic primary and won the seat. The election came in the heat of the COVID pandemic and the election that swept Donald Trump into office. It was Bush's second try for the seat and her third attempt at winning elected office, having run in 2016 in the US Senate primary and in the House primaries in 2018. In 2019, Cori Bush was featured in the Netflix documentary Knock down the House alongside Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and other upstart Democrats looking to unseat incumbents in Congress.
- [02:33]
Cori Bush
But I could not sing. We're doing something very controversial. People say, how dare you mount a challenge to someone who's so established?
- [02:43]
Interviewer
It's not just our family. It's 30,000 families a year losing loved ones because they don't have insurance.
- [02:51]
Cori Bush
I was not trying to become an activist. He lives six minutes from Ferguson. Being a woman of color, our image is scrutinized. People in my district, this is how we look.
- [03:06]
Joy Reid
Bush was sworn into Congress on January 3, three days before the January 6 insurrection. And her two terms in Congress never got any less dramatic or significant. She became a member of the Squad, the progressive activists who refused to back down on their demands for working class centered legislation such as help for those struggling without health care or needing public housing, rent relief and police reform. A rape survivor herself, she led protests demanding the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment, and she was in office during the end of Roe v. Wade. She battled with right wing freshman Marjorie Taylor Greene and stood with Palestinian American Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib and other squad members who took on the Biden administration over its insistence on backing Israel to the hilt even as the genocide in Gaza unfolded. For that, Cori Bush became a top target of the pro Israel lobby, particularly AIPAC, which poured an estimated $9 million into defeating her and other pro Palestinian Congress members in Democratic primaries in 2024, ultimately succeeding in ousting her and Jamal Bowman of New York, against whom they spent $15 million. In Cori Bush's case, AIPAC seized the seat by heavily financially backing a candidate whom Bush had once perceived as an ally or even a friend, former Prosecutor and current 1st District Congressman Wesley Bell. Well, Cori Bush has decided to stage a rematch. She is running again to reclaim that seat, she says, in the name of the people. Here is her campaign announcement.
- [04:50]
Cori Bush
What does it mean to be from St. Louis? When I think of home, I think of our community's red brick. Strong, weathered, resilient. Alone, one brick can be broken. But together, brick by brick, our neighborhoods, our history and our strength become a force and a movement. I ran for Congress because I know what it feels like to be a working class St. Louisian. Too often unseen, unheard of, left out. I promised to fight for St. Louis, and we delivered. We brought billions of dollars home directly to our community. We secured flood relief when disaster struck our neighbors. We fought for families poisoned by Coldwater Creek. And we always stood up for the most vulnerable. But because I spoke truth, they pushed back, attacked my name, my motives, spread lies and hate. But even after leaving office, when the storms came, I showed up on the ground because that's what needed to be done and that's what our district deserves. This community is my purpose. And what ifs don't define us, action does. I ran for Congress to change things for regular people. I'm running again because St. Louis deserves leadership that doesn't wait for permission, doesn't answer to wealthy donors, and doesn't hide when things get tough. All across America, we see it. Our rights rolled back, our history being rewritten, our Lives on the line. The stakes for our community here have never been higher. I'm running because our district deserves someone 10 toes down for our families, for our wallets, for our safety, for our democracy and for our bright future. St. Louis is built different. So am I. And so are we.
- [07:15]
Joy Reid
Last week, the Joy Reid show sat down with Cori Bush to talk about her time in Congress and why she is looking to return. Here's that interview.
- [07:24]
Interviewer
And as you just heard, Cori Bush is running to reclaim her congressional seat in the 1st congressional district in the great state of Missouri. And Cori Bush joins me now. Yes.
- [07:35]
Cori Bush
Glad to be here.
- [07:36]
Interviewer
Welcome to the basement.
- [07:37]
Cori Bush
Yes, it's amazing.
- [07:39]
Interviewer
It's great to have you here. So let's talk about that announcement video. You really leaned into your background, the fact that you have had struggles, economic struggles. You know, what a lot more people than I think when you first were in Congress are dealing with in your community. Talk about why you're running again.
- [07:55]
Cori Bush
Yeah, I'm running again because I hear the frustration in my community with the lack of leadership. I hear people when they talk about how much they fear the state of this country and where it's going and just the desperation for change. And I was already in that seat. I was already doing the work, as you can see in that video. So an EF3 tornado ripped through St. Louis May 16 and through our inner city. And who thinks that a tornado is going to touch down in the inner city? And it just completely devastated so many communities that were already under resourced and that where we were working to help, that we were working to help build. And so just driving through the community, walking up and down the streets, people are living in tents next to their bricks. St. Louis is full of beautiful red bricks that are now crumbled in so many places. And so I, who I am is I'm the one that shows up. St. Louis needs that type of representative, the one that shows up, the one that will get gritty because we're a greedy people, the one that will stand with all of humanity because that's who we are. We are the ones that, that, that, you know, started that the Ferguson uprising. That work came out of just regular, everyday people that just believe that we people deserve life and freedom. And so you can see in part of that video, me going into a home that was hit by the tornado and I went up in the roof. You know, I like that's the kind of work we need now. So somebody who's willing to do the work on the ground, but Also, go show up in the House, show up at these meetings, be that voice, because you can be the voice, because you're still connected to the people, and you are the people.
- [09:42]
Interviewer
By implication, when you're saying somebody who shows up, somebody who's of the people, you are implying that the gentleman who is currently holding that seat, Wesley Bell, is not that person.
- [09:51]
Cori Bush
He's not like us.
- [09:54]
Interviewer
Also, say more. Say more words.
- [09:56]
Cori Bush
He's not like us. And I. Let me, you know, I just. That was. He's not. So I know who I am. The community knows who I am. One thing that the community says about Cori Bush, even if it's a Republican or somebody that just does not believe in all of this, policies, you know, stand the way that I stand as far as policies are concerned, one thing they say to me is, Cory, we don't agree on the issues, but you are a fighter. And so for that, I support you. If everybody. That's what people know about me, is I'm a fighter. That's what we need right now. But when you look at what has happened since the new congressperson took over the seat, someone said to me, corey, when you showed up to Congress, St. Louis showed up, and when you left, you took St. Louis with you. That's the thing. When I think about when the eviction moratorium, when it was about to expire in 2021, my very first freshman year, and I think if the current congressman was in the seat at the time, would he have, you know, would he have camped out on the capitol steps for four nights and five days to bring about change, to make sure that 11 million people weren't going to be at risk for evictions at that time and 7,000 in the district. Would he have done that? No, that's just not who he's been. But it's who I am.
- [11:15]
Interviewer
You've talked about him. You have not used his name. But I want to play something for you, because at one time, you all did have a relationship, at least of some. Of some level of friendship. So I'm going to play this for you. This is from, I want to say, probably March or spring of 2023. And I'm going to not run any shoes.
- [11:37]
Cori Bush
Yeah, well, I appreciate that. I'm going to, but I just. I want, like, I need other people to not think. And. And I think the reason why people are asking me about it is because it's what Steve Roberts did. He said he was running for one seat, and then he switched at the end and ran, you know, So I know you're not. I know you're not, but.
- [12:00]
Wesley Bell
But you know, that's my. That's my girl. That's your girl, too.
- [12:04]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [12:06]
Wesley Bell
I don't do that.
- [12:08]
Cori Bush
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
- [12:10]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [12:10]
Wesley Bell
What I've seen is don't. But they call you just be like, don't be. Don't be ignoring that stuff.
- [12:15]
Cori Bush
That's not true.
- [12:15]
Wesley Bell
That's what you're trying to divide us. Because that's really what it is.
- [12:18]
Interviewer
And just.
- [12:18]
Wesley Bell
Just to be real while we talking, if that. Look, this was not to work out, my seat was up in two years and that's what I'd be running with. That's why this was such an opportunity move for me to go statewide, because I'm in the. I'm not six months in, so I'm like, let's. Let's go, let's go.
- [12:37]
Cori Bush
No, absolutely.
- [12:38]
Interviewer
Cuz you.
- [12:39]
Cori Bush
You got that. You have that safety, which is good. But you know, we still.
- [12:43]
Wesley Bell
We still want you to say this too, baby. Even if you wasn't in that space, like real talk, even if you wasn't, I think I went to every two years. I don't know.
- [12:53]
Cori Bush
Look, it ain't no ch.
- [12:57]
Wesley Bell
You constantly doing.
- [13:03]
Cori Bush
Ain't no joke.
- [13:04]
Wesley Bell
But just to be clear.
- [13:09]
Interviewer
That should.
- [13:09]
Wesley Bell
Be the last thing that's not happening.
- [13:12]
Cori Bush
Yeah, well, yeah, I appreciate it.
- [13:14]
Interviewer
So that was a call from Wesley Bell. Between yourself and Wesley Bell, and at the time, he was assuring you that he was not going to run for Congress. He was running at the time potentially against Josh Hawley. He's going to run in the primary in order to run for United States Senate.
- [13:31]
Cori Bush
Yes.
- [13:33]
Interviewer
Something changed and he exited that Senate race where he was going to run in that primary and ran against you. At the time when you had that conversation, what was your relationship with Wesley Bell?
- [13:45]
Cori Bush
So, you know, initially during the Ferguson uprising, that's when I met him. And I think, and then at one point, like, he was on the Ferguson City Council, he showed up on the ground, you know, a couple, probably a handful of times, if that many times. But people, most of us frontline activists, knew of him as just being someone who wasn't all that friendly to the protesters, who didn't embrace us, who wasn't like, trying to be a part of us. And so that's how we kept like, okay, that's the relationship. But when he came out and said that he was going to run for the county prosecutor seat, and we really, the community wanted to see somebody different in that seat, especially somebody that said that they were going to work on trying to get accountability for the death of.
- [14:34]
Interviewer
For the.
- [14:34]
Cori Bush
For the killing of Mike Brown, of Mike Brown Jr. People were like, okay, well, regardless of what the situation was in the past, so many were like, okay, well, we're going to help because we want to see this happen. And so people supported him. He won the seat, and then he didn't do what he said, and so he turned on the activist.
- [14:51]
Interviewer
Didn't do.
- [14:51]
Cori Bush
Didn't do any of that. But when I got into the seat, I knew that I needed to work with the county prosecutor. So we were cool. Like, we had gotten to the point where we were cool, and then we got to the point where we were working together. You know, it was cis. It was bro. It was. You know, it was that. Because we were two black elected officials who were the first black people to hold those seats. So there was a kinship, you know, in a relationship, even. Some other stuff happened. We were like, he was being pressed to. To make sure, like, we don't want to see the death penalty in our state, you know, and so he was being pressed by groups to make sure that we weren't sending people, you know, to be executed if we could do anything about it. And he just wasn't really moving in the area. So I was trying to help him, like, hey, this is what you need to do. I was really trying to help him to not end up being somebody that everybody turned on, like, do the right thing. I thought we were cool. And then all of a sudden, people started calling me saying, corey, you know, Wesley Bell is running against you. And I was like, wesley? No, he's not. Like, we just. This is. You know, they were like, no, he's running against you. You know, even people were alleging that there was a girl, a fake girlfriend, just so he could look like he had a companion. And I kept telling people, no. This went on for a month. And then when he announced that he was running for US Senate, there was an article that came out saying that he actually wasn't running for U.S. senate. He was really running against me. Basically, he was running for U.S. senate to increase his name, money and his name ID, right? And so that's when I called him. So I said, you know what? Let me stop my phone from ringing. Let me reassure these folks that they don't have to worry about that. So I called him.
- [16:40]
Interviewer
Did you record the call? Yes. And what if you had a level of friendship or relationship? Why did you feel you needed to record the call?
- [16:52]
Cori Bush
So the call started a little Bit into the recording. Started a little bit into the call.
- [16:56]
Interviewer
Right.
- [16:57]
Cori Bush
Because I wasn't recording the call, and I didn't even think to record the call. But then all of a sudden, as I'm. As he's talking, it just seemed like he wasn't telling the truth. And so then I said, okay, let me record this for later, just in case, because he was. And, you know, it just seemed phony. And so I said, well, let me. I said, if I don't need it, then I'll never. Then, okay, I don't need it. But maybe, you know, so that's why. That's why the recording didn't start from like, hello.
- [17:21]
Interviewer
Right, right. And so, I mean, so obviously there was a certain level of distrust is what you're saying, right?
- [17:26]
Cori Bush
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [17:27]
Interviewer
I mean, we didn't.
- [17:28]
Cori Bush
We. Like, it wasn't like I trusted him from the jump anyway.
- [17:31]
Interviewer
Right.
- [17:32]
Cori Bush
You know, it was just that I thought that we had grown in relationships.
- [17:34]
Interviewer
Sure. And then when did you find out officially that in fact he was going to run? And did you. Did he tell you, hey, this is the reason that I've changed my mind and I'm running?
- [17:45]
Cori Bush
So there was a day where the media actually reached out to my team and said, hey, we got word that Wesley Bell's about to announce against you. We just want to prepare you. And we were so caught off guard. But this was right after. This was maybe two weeks after I introduced the Ceasefire now resolution.
- [18:05]
Interviewer
So I want to get just. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but what happens in between and that call and his decision is the October 7th attack.
- [18:13]
Cori Bush
Absolutely.
- [18:14]
Interviewer
So the October 7th attacks happen maybe a couple, few months after that call. And it really does sort of change the dynamic, particularly for organizations like aipac. You from the very beginning, really, not maybe from that day, but from early in the intense war that Israel begins waging against Gaza, you and other members of the squad were very vocal about saying, we need a ceasefire, it needed to stop. Did you get a sense that when you started to make those calls, what was the reaction? I'll just say, what was the reaction that you got institutionally from other members of Congress?
- [18:51]
Cori Bush
Yeah, from other members of Congress. There was this like. Like disconnection. It was almost like, stay away from her. Let me. Yeah, let me. Let me get back. Like, why is she doing this? Some people came to me and whispered to me, keep going. I just can't do it. Like, but you. But, you know, I believe what you're doing. So it was kind of a mixed Bag. But publicly it was like Rasheeda and I and other squad members.
- [19:21]
Interviewer
Rashida Tlaib.
- [19:22]
Cori Bush
I'm sorry, Rashida Tlaib and I and other squad members and a few other folks that are our friends. Like, we were on this island by ourselves. And I hate to say island, because we went through that before.
- [19:34]
Interviewer
But.
- [19:37]
Cori Bush
So it was. That part was hard. But in my community, one thing that I noticed was that our phones were ringing off the hook in our office. And it was pretty much 2 to 1, people saying, thank you, Congresswoman. Thank you for standing up, you know, thank you for fighting against, against, you know, this ground invasion. Thank you for wanting a ceasefire and being willing to put your name on the line for it. So the thing that I paid attention to was that St. Louis was with me because it was a 2 to 1, you know, 2 to 1, you know, we stand with you. But. But that first 24 hours from when Rashida and I, Rashida Tlaib and I announced the ceasefire resolution, introduced the ceasefire resolution, I had so many death threats into my office, whether by phone or email or however they came in, that I had to evacuate our St. Louis office and close it down for a week because I could not put my team in a position to where they could be harmed. I didn't want them harmed with someone thinking that I was there and I was not, you know, and so there's no way for me to protect them. And they were, they were afraid of what could happen. So the response was deplorable. And all we were saying, though, was like, don't kill humans. Why does it have to have a border? Why is it you can kill these folks, but not these folks? And these folks. Maybe the. No, don't kill people. And. And so if a ground invasion was going to happen in St. Louis and there was a legislator in another country that had the opportunity to vote on whether to fund that or whether it should happen, or if they could put forth some legislation to try to stop it, would I want them to do it? Absolutely. I would want them to put everything on the line to save St. Louis. So that's what I did.
- [21:25]
Interviewer
And did you, at that point, did Wesley Bell start to speak up on the other side? Was he vocal in. On a pro Israel level?
- [21:32]
Cori Bush
Absolutely.
- [21:33]
Interviewer
He.
- [21:33]
Cori Bush
Yeah, that's. He came out the day that he announced. He had a press conference, and in that press conference, he spoke about standing 100% with Israel and he talked about me and, you know, the ceasefire resolution that I introduced. A ceasefire resolution. And that was his reason for running against me.
- [21:51]
Interviewer
So his framing was that he was not going to run against you until you became vocal for a ceasefire and that that prompted him to want to run? That was what he told.
- [22:00]
Cori Bush
That was his.
- [22:00]
Interviewer
Did he tell you that personally?
- [22:01]
Cori Bush
No, he never told me that. The day that he announced, when I heard from the media that he was going to run, then I received a text from him saying, hey, I want to talk to you real quick. I need to talk to you about something, I want you to hear it from me. So when you have a second, call me.
- [22:17]
Interviewer
Okay?
- [22:19]
Cori Bush
As soon as I saw that, soon as it ding, I read it, I called him. He didn't answer. We haven't had a conversation since.
- [22:26]
Interviewer
So you've not had a conversation face to face or on the phone since then?
- [22:29]
Cori Bush
No, we have not.
- [22:31]
Interviewer
So at what point was it clear to you that aipac, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, Affairs Committee, which is very powerful and I'm going to ask you some questions about that too. When did it become clear that AIPAC was going to back Wesley Bell's campaign? And do you believe that AIPAC had some involvement in convincing him to run against you?
- [22:53]
Cori Bush
Yeah, I think that. So two years prior, in the 2022 cycle, I heard that AIPAC was going to get involved. And you know, the person that was running the Steve Roberts that you, that you could hear him, that you hear me talking about on the, on the call, we were told that he was expecting AIPAC to, you know, to help him to run against me. And then that didn't happen. So two years later I was told, well, some articles came out a few months later just saying that the Republicans, like, I was like one of their biggest targets.
- [23:33]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [23:34]
Cori Bush
And I remember thinking at the time, why would this article come, come out saying that the Republicans, like, are really going to target me because, like, a Republican can't win in my district. I didn't know the connection with AIPAC and Republicans as far as how much Republicans, you know, help fund apac. And so I just didn't understand it. But then once I came out with the ceasefire resolution and AIPAC started talking about we have $100 million, you know, they have $100 million to, to challenge, you know, Democrats who are, you know, I guess, pro Palestine. I don't remember exact words that they use. I just about, like there wasn't precedents, like within the last few years for me to be able to look at, to understand like, what that meant. And then we knew that they were targeting quite, they would be targeting quite A few different people. At least that's what we thought. Swab members and other people that were running.
- [24:28]
Interviewer
Sure. Summer Lee was targeted.
- [24:31]
Cori Bush
What we were thinking Summer Lee would be targeted, of course, you know, Ilhan Omar, Jamal Bowman, and possibly Rashida Tlaib. So we were just all just like, okay, well, we won't know what it's like until it happens. And if it happens.
- [24:45]
Interviewer
It had seemed that the targeting was more focused on black members.
- [24:49]
Cori Bush
Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. More targeted towards black members. And I, you know, when the two people who were unseated with AIPAC money in the House of Representatives are two black people. Yeah, that says a lot. And then when I also, also being told that, you know, well, it, you know, aipac, you know, they may come for you, but you don't have to worry about it because you, you know, your, your community, your community loves you. You know, I remember hearing that throughout, even throughout Congress, throughout, like, different colleagues, just different circles saying, like, oh, but you'll be fine.
- [25:32]
Interviewer
Right?
- [25:32]
Cori Bush
Well, what is fine? Have you ever had, we were thinking 25 million at the time. Have you ever had 25 million against you? So how do you know I will be fine? Yeah, yeah, but.
- [25:41]
Interviewer
And it wound up being about $15 million rounded up.
- [25:43]
Cori Bush
It wound up being $15 million with APAC money and crypto money, and I think it was even big real estate. So all of them kind of came together and, and so as far as big real estate, you know, I believe they were still pissed at me, or there's reporting that they were still pissed at me about the eviction moratorium.
- [26:00]
Interviewer
Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So, I mean, concentrated money in politics. We know that this is a challenge. What was the reaction of leadership, Hakeem Jeffries, the other leaders, did you feel supported? Did they come to you and say, hey, we're going to support you and do whatever we can to reelect you?
- [26:16]
Cori Bush
So, yes, there were conversations that, oh, we're going to be there for you. We're going to be there for all the squad, because we know that they're going to come for you all. And then once we started to see, okay, well, it looks like they're coming for Jamal and Corey and not everybody. Then it turned into. There was a lot of back and forth because there were things being said from members of Congress, talking about, I had supported when Nina Turner was running before and she was challenging Chantelle Brown and that people were saying that, oh, well, because Corey did that and went against a CBC member, then maybe we then, like the.
- [27:03]
Interviewer
You unseated A cbc. I mean, you unseated Lacy Clay.
- [27:06]
Cori Bush
Absolutely, I did. Outsiders, take us inside.
- [27:10]
Interviewer
You have been. You're a former member, so you know how things work there. Take us a little bit inside the way things work. Because the squad in general got their seats by unseating incumbents. And so there was a sense, at least from the outside looking in, that maybe incumbent Democrats looked at the squad with a little bit of a side eye because they had unseated members. Is that true?
- [27:32]
Cori Bush
Yeah. But it's weird because so many of them have, too. And that's what's weird. It's like you're here because you unseated and incumbent. And the thing is, I didn't go. I didn't decide. I want to be in Congress. So let me go, you know, just run for this seat because I want this title. I ran for the seat because I remember being out there on the streets of Ferguson.
- [27:52]
Joy Reid
I remember.
- [27:52]
Cori Bush
I remember this militarized police force. I remember being brutalized myself by that police force. I'll never forget being thrown up in the air and seeing stars and wondering, why am I seeing the stars? And then coming down on the ground and realizing it's because they threw me, the police threw me up in the air. I'll never forget being brutalized or watching my fellow activists being brutal, brutalized, hung upside down and hogtied, hanging off of batons. I'll never forget that. And then to know that my predecessor had voted where he could have voted to not militarize the police. He was in support of it. And so for me, thinking about my child being the next hashtag, you know, like, did you do enough to say, would you feel you've done enough? You know, how can. Is there another way you could save his life or her life? And so that was my thought process. So that's why I ran. So it wasn't just, I need to be in this position, but for some of them, that was the case. Like, this is the position I want and so to be upset with us because that's how we enter Congress. I showed up in Congress and I worked. I worked my butt off in Congress. I worked. We championed on houselessness, we championed the Equal Rights Amendment. First time a black woman ever sponsored the Equal Rights amendment legislation in 100 years. Me and Ayanna Pressley, we started the very first ERA caucus in the House of Representatives. There had never been a home for the ERA we championed, whether it was climate justice in just so many areas. So we were working. I was there working. I brought $2 billion home to my district, working about $41 million home to communities. Organizations that are doing great work in the community that needed to scale up, that I wanted to see scale up. So we were doing the work to transform St. Louis and this country. So if anyone wanted to look at us and say, well, you know, you just did this for a title or we feel away. We made our caucus look good. You know, other people did too. Absolutely. We didn't. We weren't making our caucus look bad. We were staying. We stayed on television. Not because we were trying to bring a name for ourselves, but because I need you to know what's happening in St. Louis. Because you won't know if I don't say it. If I have this platform to be on TV to tell you about what is needed in my community, then that's what I have to do.
- [30:19]
Interviewer
Take us inside. Because I feel like you're absolutely right, that there's a tension that people say we don't hear enough from Congress, they don't have a message. And then the really sort of strong messengers and the squad are strong messengers then get beaten up for being to public. So it's like you have. You're sort of damned if you didn't, damned if you don't.
- [30:38]
Cori Bush
Yeah, don't sideline. Don't sideline us. I am a strong believer and you have those who are skilled in a particular area do that thing. And so right now, the people who are your orators, have them do the messaging. Now, they may not be your fighters. Stop calling them your fighters because they're your messengers. Your fighters who are the ones that will go and stand and do that unconventional thing, that thing that does not look like decorum. Those are your fighters. You put them where that's needed. Like use everybody right now. Your lawyers that know how to, you know, like, you know, a Jamie Raskin that can break down that constitutional law, have him in his place, like. So that's what. That's what I would love to see the Democratic Party do right now. Don't sideline people. Don't, you know, forget the labels of progressive or this or that. Moderate. Just. We are one party that needs to serve the people in the way. In a way where people feel it so much to where they're like, that's my.
- [31:35]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Interviewer
Another piece of what I feel hangs over Congress that, you know, Matt Gaetz, weird that I'm gonna quote Matt Gaetz right now. It feels weird for me too. But there are some former members who have pulled back the curtain A little bit on the power that AIPAC has because, again, I think it's arguable if we look objectively at where you stand now versus where you were. A main reason, if not the main reason you're not in Congress, is aipac. So take us behind the curtain. Matt Gaetz has implied that they wield unearthly power, incredible power inside of Congress. And he's talked about some of the ways they do it. Taking people on junkets to Israel in his. This is his words, maybe spying on members, maybe having people in your room. When you come back to your room, there's an AIPAC person there having a personal handler for each member. Is that true? Talk about how AIPAC actually works inside of Congress.
- [32:28]
Cori Bush
Yeah. And so I think my, you know, my situation with APAC is a little different because I walked in the door with AIPAC already knowing where I stood.
- [32:36]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [32:37]
Cori Bush
Because I had been a supporter of, you know, ending the siege and, you know, Palestinian liberation for years. That started during the Ferguson Uprise in 2014. And so I've been organizing with our local Arab community, our Muslim community for years. So they knew when I, you know, when I was about to come to Congress, that, like, where I stood, but they still would send people. So that's one thing that started before I enter Congress. I would be having a meeting with someone and then all of a sudden, someone there would be this person that they would introduce. Oh, okay. Hi, how are you? Oh, this person is with apac. Well, why are they here? You know, and we just want to get to know you. I don't need to get to know you. You know, and so what then? I was told right before I was sworn in was, okay, AIPAC said that they know you're not going to change your policy stance. They just want you to be silent about it. If you're not silent about it, then you can expect to have a tumultuous entrance into your tenure in Congress.
- [33:36]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [33:36]
Cori Bush
And my response was, have we met? If the tanks didn't back me down during the Ferguson uprising, if the dogs out there didn't back me down, if the gunshots and the rubber bullets didn't back me down, if the sexual assault I endured and being homeless and all of these things didn't back me down, you think you all coming for me or talking about me is going to stop me and back me down? I got here as a regular, everyday person. I didn't get here because of a name or because of money. I struggled to become a member of Congress. So you Think I'm going to let you scare me? And so that's how I enter Congress. And so, yes, there were members of Congress who would say, okay, and I would be a part of these conversations. I would hear it, you know, when you go to this reception, just don't go back to anybody's room or if somebody comes up to you and like, all of a sudden this beautiful woman wants to talk to you, you know, and she's just giving you a lot of attention. Don't pay her any attention. Like, those are the things that we would hear.
- [34:39]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [34:39]
Cori Bush
And. And then I would also hear, you know, like, I messed up, you know, and so I hope that that wasn't somebody sent by aipac. So, like, I didn't. I wasn't. I don't know what was actually AIPAC and what wasn't. I just know that there were warnings that would go out in circles about, like, how to protect yourself. And as far as people showing up in rooms, like, that much, I don't know. But I did see that interview with Matt Gates, and that would have mortified me, you know, to walk into my hotel room and see, but. And have somebody in my room. But I also would never take the trip. I've never taken the trip. I learned about the trip years ago. And that trip is not just members of Congress, that trip, they do those trips with clergy, they do those trips with black youth, they do those trips with local and state officials. It starts before you ever hit the federal level.
- [35:33]
Interviewer
And what is, to your knowledge, if, you know, people who've been on this trip, this junket to Israel, what happens.
- [35:39]
Cori Bush
On that trip, you know? Well, I can only speak about what I've been told, but what I'm told is, you know, you go on a trip and they, you know, you get to meet all of these, you know, heads of state, or you go to different locations. And it's pretty much a propaganda trip, you know, showing you why you need to stand 100% with Israel. You know, you go to the Wall and, you know, and it's very. And even for some, it becomes like this, you know, religious experience. It can be a religious experience. And so. And it's well funded, so you're very well taken care of. And for some, for some people like that have never had such, you know, like, whatever that luxury is, if you've never been through that before, then it's like, wow, these folks really care. It makes me think about how there were. And I can't remember the name of the group now because I never heard of them before, but when I was running the last race in 2024, there was a group of black folks, an organization that came out against me. And when we did some digging, okay, these were people that worked for black people who worked for AIPAC, but they came to St. Louis and were out going to churches and things and putting out flyers saying, oh, Corey is bad, and all of this. And it makes me, you know, it made me so angry because you have. You're using black people to tell other black people that this black person that has been standing with them and in the fire with them, you know, bled on the same ground that they have bled on, is not right for them because you went on a trip or because you're getting funded, not because what you're saying is actually true.
- [37:18]
Interviewer
Now, having experienced AIPAC up close, is there anything that they advocate that's strictly about the United States or is everything they advocate for about this foreign country, Israel.
- [37:33]
Cori Bush
I will say advocating for the United States. The only thing that I could really speak to is all of their ads against me in the last campaign cycle were about President Joe Biden and like the. His infrastructure bill. There was zero. Not one ad about whether or not.
- [37:56]
Interviewer
You voted for that.
- [37:57]
Cori Bush
Yes, about. About my, My vote on the infrastructure bill. But not one ad spoke about Israel or Gaza or Palestine.
- [38:05]
Interviewer
But that's their ads. I mean, their advocacy. When they come to your office or not your office, but the offices where they do, they say, we want you to do this specifically for the United States. Or is it we just need you to stand by Israel?
- [38:17]
Cori Bush
I honestly don't know because they've never. I don't even think they know where my office is, at least where it was.
- [38:23]
Interviewer
Well, they know where the office is in there. Now, we've seen Congressman Bell get protested pretty exuberantly wherever he's gone. And it has felt, it feels like the community is not with him on the issue of Israel, Palestine.
- [38:40]
Cori Bush
No.
- [38:40]
Interviewer
It's sort of ironic, isn't it, that that was the thing that removed you from office. But it doesn't feel like he. The crowd.
- [38:45]
Cori Bush
Well, and the thing is, so St. Louis City actually passed unanimously a ceasefire now resolution right at like maybe a month and a half, six weeks, something like that. After we introduced ours, Rashida Saleeb and I and Squad, after we released that one, they built a ceasefire resolution similar to the one that we have, we had in the Congress. And the community was with them. So the community believes in humanity. The issue was. That wasn't the conversation. So they Didn't. There was no parallel because all what AIPAC was saying was it was about standing with Democrats and Joe Biden. So the people didn't. So if it had been ads about Israel, if it had been ads about Palestine, the people would have been against that.
- [39:32]
Interviewer
Let's talk about that vote, because I spoke with other members of the squad who did vote against the big infrastructure bill, which used to be tied to something called Big Back Build Back Better. And I remember reporting on this on my show at MSNBC at the time, and the administration not being very pleased with our reporting on it, because the separation between Build Black, Build Back Better, which had a lot of things for women and children, free preschool or at least subsidized preschool, like really helping, you know, and it would have really helped a lot of women of color and children. And then you had the big infrastructure bill, which is this massive bill negotiated by, from what I could see, 20 white people behind closed doors. Right. 20 white senators, not even a senator of color, no one in the room except them. And they split $1.7 trillion and then split the bills. Talk about what happened when those bills split among the Democratic caucus. What kind of pressure was on you all to still support it even though those Build Back better things had been taken out?
- [40:31]
Cori Bush
Yeah, so initially, when the bills were together, when those bills were coupled, we, I know members of Squad were getting phone calls from our allies, especially in the climate space, saying, hey, this bill doesn't go far enough and so can you do some work there? And so we were like, okay, if we support this bill outright, we're going to get attacked from our base. And the president was just like, hey, but this Build Back Better bill, if we keep them coupled, you know, then we'll have all of this investment, like you said, into childcare, into school lunches, into cleaning up lead pipes and retrofitting homes. So we're putting money into the care economy. This is my legacy. So if you just support this bill, even though it's not all that you want, I'm going to make sure that these, both of these bills ride together and that, you know, so. So, like, this will be great for the country. We were like, bet if we can keep them together, because otherwise you're putting us on the line for something that, that should have gone farther. And so that was the deal. And so we supported it. We put our names on the line. And then all of a sudden, after it was decoupled, when it was decoupled, it was hard for us because now we had told the community, like, this is what's coming, this big deal with all of this investment.
- [41:56]
Interviewer
That would have been a big, beautiful bill, actually.
- [41:58]
Cori Bush
That would have been a big, beautiful bill, you know. And so when it broke down, I just remember being in a meeting and talking to the president on the phone, talking to President Biden on the phone. And I just had to, you know, because the room was like, okay, who's going to talk to the president? And it was like, Corey, you know, and I'm like, I'm the freshman in the room. Okay, I'll talk. You know. So I got on the, on the phone with the president and he said, you know, I need, I need you to back the bill. And my thing was you have these, I think it was nine Congress members who were like, they were not going to budge in support of making sure that both of these bills went together, that the infrastructure bill and they didn't want bill back better. And so My thing was, Mr. President, this is your legacy. Instead of being on the phone trying to push the dozens of people in this room, why don't you go fight with the nine?
- [42:53]
Interviewer
Joe Manchin and the others in the Senate.
- [42:55]
Cori Bush
Well, yeah, those folks too, but the folks in the House.
- [42:57]
Interviewer
Oh, in the House as well.
- [42:58]
Cori Bush
Yeah, go talk to them. And anyway, he was just like, I'm your president, just do what I said. And I was like, no, no. Because I said, how is this going to help St. Louis? I said, I need this to help St. Louis. And so, Mr. President, what I need you. I said, joe Manchin just said on the telev that he was not going to support Build Back Better, even in December when we know we have to get spending done, he said, no. So, Mr. President, I need you to not push this forward today. He said, cory, just stand with me. And I said, this doesn't stand with St. Louis. So, no, I'm standing with my people. And I meant that because the thing, when I look back now, if we would have passed the Build Back Better act along with the infrastructure bill now, bridges that people can see, roads that they can ride on, where their tires aren't getting all messed up, their cars aren't getting messed up, all of those things are great. We need those. And so people seeing that. Yes, thank you for that. But when people can feel at home, when they have been able to hold on to that $300 a month that they spend, I mean, $300 a week that they spend on child care services or that senior home that has been, that hasn't had any investment in 30 years has now been completed. Now they have working elevators and all like that. Where our, our workers who are taking care of our, our seniors, where they are able to have a living wage and all of these things. School, free school lunches, free school breakfast, like the child tax credit, starting back then, not stopping, putting people back into kids, back into poverty and families. If we would have had that now, maybe people would not have been supporting Donald Trump over the price of eggs. Maybe we wouldn't have a Donald Trump presidency right now because people would have felt the difference. Because when we got close to that election, I still kept hearing from even members of the black community. But that twelve hundred dollars that, that stem, I got, that stimulus check, they remembered the stimulus check that had Donald Trump's name on it. But how much more would they have remembered had the other investment come to them from the Build Back Better Act? So I just want to make it clear for people, I supported both, we needed both. What I could not support was having one without the other because they needed to be together.
- [45:13]
Interviewer
It's this weird thing where the Democratic Party and I talked to Bishop William Barber, he talks about this all the time. That the middle class obsession, the focus on the middle class. The middle class, the middle class and the refusal to look at the poor, which, you know, maybe everybody wants to admit that they're poor, but if you broke, you're broke. And a lot of people are struggling, maybe that's a better word for it, struggling. But it feels like the Democratic Party doesn't talk about struggling people, they only talk about the middle class. So that means maybe the things in Build Back Better don't resonate to them. But for you, who's had to, I mean, you've talked about living in your car, you've talked about being a single mom, you've talked about struggling financially. Is it that so many Democrats are wealthy or middle class that they just can't relate to, to how desperately people needed that was Build Back Better?
- [45:56]
Joy Reid
Is that what it is? What is it?
- [45:57]
Cori Bush
I think that some of it is that they can't relate. And they think that those who can, that they know better than those who can relate. Because if you've been there, then maybe you're not as good as me. It's the way that some of that kind of came to me, especially during the eviction moratorium. I remember being told, well, like, why can't you just go to the shelter and like, and go to the food pantry? I'm talking about Democrats. And I said, well, let me break this down to you that at least in my community, you can't go to a food pantry every single week and get food. Some of them you can only go once a month. And then I said, out living in your car. Where are you putting the milk? You know, where am I putting this food if I'm living in my car? If I'm living in my car, you know, how am I saying, how are we staying warm enough at night if I don't have money, I can't play the car all night long and run out the gas. How are we, like, you know, being practical about it? And it was like a light bulb. Oh, yeah. I didn't think about that. I never thought about that. So it's that some of it is the disconnect, I think the other part is I remember being told when I entered Congress, don't say poor. Don't say poor. And I was so glad when I was put on the poverty task force because I, I, it was like, no.
- [47:14]
Interviewer
But what when they said, when someone said don't say poor, did they say.
- [47:16]
Cori Bush
Why don't, don't say poor. Because, you know, it makes people feel bad that, like, there is this, that you're bringing up this part of the United States that is like, where the US Isn't taking care of the people.
- [47:31]
Interviewer
Who are poor feel even worse.
- [47:33]
Cori Bush
Absolutely. Absolutely. People feel pretty bad than before. Been there, know what that feels like, you know, and whether you want to be called poor people, you may not want to be called poor or not, but should we talk about poverty? Absolutely. And so, like, in my office, the motto of our office was to do the absolute most for every single person in St. Louis, starting with those who have the greatest need. Because if you start with those who have the greatest need, everybody else benefits, will benefit. Absolutely.
- [47:57]
Interviewer
Is it also a sense. And you know, I'm channeling Bishop Barber right now. Is it that there's a belief among too many Democrats that poor people don't vote, so you really can't address them because they're not voters?
- [48:09]
Cori Bush
That is a belief I've heard quite a bit. Is that the whole these folks don't vote thing is unbelievable. And the thing is, when you don't, when you swear, get sworn in to your position, you're not sworn in, saying that for the people who voted for me, that this is who I represent. No, you represent all of the people. So whether they vote for you or not, you know, is that, does that mean that, oh, you don't help Republicans, you don't have Libertarians you don't help Green Party. You don't help people who are not, who have no affiliation. You don't help people who are poor. We don't first look at those who are, who are, you know, struggling or more, you know, more under resourced. Like you are the one that signed up for this. And so the other thing is maybe you don't want to go into that community and learn about those, you know, learn about those struggles. Maybe you don't want to hear that, you know, maybe it just doesn't feel comfortable for you. Well, then that's why we have people who are of those communities who deserve to be in some of these positions because it's comfortable for them and they can speak about it in a different way. And I think that's some of the things that people, like some folks had against me. It was like, oh, you keep coming here talking about the unhoused, you keep coming here talking about homelessness and you know, why, you know, like they need to just get a job. And if people who are struggling to have a home or people who have made the decision that they can't go inside of a shelter, if someone. I was a nurse in a community based mental health agency for a number of years. I was the director of the facility. Some of my patients didn't want to go into the shelter because of their own mental health issues. And so it was better for them to stay outside.
- [50:06]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [50:07]
Cori Bush
And so listening to people and this is how they feel, but listening to people talk about like your work should just be how do I connect and help? How do I represent? Not how I tell them how, you know, I shouldn't. Not you telling them how they should be or how they should feel. Because you care more about that than you care about billionaires continuing to profit. Billionaires get all of these tax breaks. But then you want to go and say that people who are on SNAP need to have all of these, you know, you need to be only work, need to have drug tests and all of this. You care more about that $25 or $5, whatever it is that comes out of the check, you know, out of taxpayers checks to be able to pay for that. Then you care about this billionaire who is sucking our communities dry. That that is the hypocrisy of it. And that's something that isn't as Democrats though we have got. We're going to have to work on that hypocrisy of we take money from, you know, these big corporations, the same ones that we claim that we're we're fighting for the people, but you take money from the people who are fighting the people. You know, we have to. We have to reckon with ourselves in that way.
- [51:19]
Interviewer
You talk about the ways in which you made sometimes your colleagues uncomfortable because you're coming from a different place than maybe they were comfortable. And you talked about some of the ways that you were supported and not supported. 2023 was a. It was a year. Yeah, it was a year. It was quite a year. But it was also the year when you fell in love. You had a little bit of a bodyguard. When we had you on the show earlier, I said it was like the bodyguard. You needed more security. As you said you were getting death threats, your security was an issue. You hired a firm to give you bodyguard services. Security services. And you happened to fall in love with your bodyguard.
- [51:55]
Cori Bush
No, no, no, no.
- [51:56]
Interviewer
Tell me the story.
- [51:56]
Cori Bush
Okay.
- [51:57]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [51:57]
Cori Bush
So actually, I started dating this beautiful man. So I started having security in 2020. No, 2019. And before I ever entered Congress, because I had so many death threats, like, I had not only threats, I had attempts on my life. There are actually. I have a file with where I sat down and went through all of the death attempts on my life. I used to just put the attempts on social media because I didn't trust, like.
- [52:29]
Interviewer
And where did these come from? This was because of your advocacy for Michael Brown.
- [52:32]
Cori Bush
Michael Brown. And that continued work. And so, like, I just had a lot of. I had several attempts on my life. And so my team made sure that I had some security once I entered Congress, we knew that I would need more security just because my name would be more prominent. But by that time, I had already started dating this beautiful, wonderful man who just so happened to be a veteran and someone who had an extensive security background. And so imagine trying to date with security, you know, but so we were dating, and security would be with me. And over time, you know, he just got to the point to where he would say, like, hey, you know, maybe you should stand there. Maybe you should do this, or. Yeah, that's like, that's not how you should cover her this way.
- [53:28]
Interviewer
Right.
- [53:29]
Cori Bush
And he was just giving so many suggestions. And then we ran into this. This situation where some of my security agents were getting scared off. They were being told, like, if you continue to work with, you know, with Cori Bush, you won't be able to work this other secondary type job or this other. You won't be able to do this other work. Some of their family members were feeling targeted because they would come and say, hey, well, this happened to my wife. She was told that, like, I needed to quit working for you. And so it happened so much. So we would lose people and they would, I love you, Corey, but I gotta support my family. So we were losing people. So now I'm Uncovered. You know, we had call offs, no shows. So, you know, I'm dating this guy, but he's. Now he's like, okay, I can't leave you Uncovered, so now I'm gonna help today. And so that's kind of how things happened. It was just really organic. People were falling asleep on the job. I was mortified because I'm just like, how are you helping me? If you so it just. So there were so many things happening. And then at one point, someone, the person who was my lead security agent, had a personal situation and said, boss, I need to be out for three months starting tomorrow. And I was like, we're already short. What am I supposed to do? And so, and so my husband, who's my husband now, he stepped in and I was like, you know what? You've been doing this all along. You've been not only training and helping, but you've been leading. And I'm Uncovered right now. Can you just do this? And so he started recruiting people and he got us staffed up and he's. But before that, like, I reached out to my compliance and to. We looked up all of the federal regulations to make sure that, you know, that there weren't going to be any problems. We made sure that we were doing everything according to, you know, what the regulations are. And he, he started working, you know, and so later we got married because we were already, I mean, you know, we were dating. The plan was before he ever started working for us that, you know, like, we knew we were going to be together.
- [55:30]
Interviewer
And yet what happened? And this is all 20, 23. And this was in the midst of the issues around aipac, the issues around your, you know, non compliance with the President of the United States. When it came to build back better, all of that was in the mix. An ethics investigation was opened around you and Courtney's relationship. Suddenly that becomes these subject of an ethics investigation that I believe now is a DOJ investigation. How did that come about?
- [55:58]
Cori Bush
Yeah, so one person made a complaint and he made a complaint that, you know, that I shouldn't have my husband working for me doing my security. And I mean, the rules are clear with the Federal Election Commission that that can't happen as long as they are actually doing the job. And they are Being PA Market rate. Me and paid a market rate. And so the person was just like, well, I want you to investigate it. Because they didn't see, I believe, because that person didn't see enough, like media attention and all of that.
- [56:36]
Interviewer
Sure.
- [56:37]
Cori Bush
That they decided to. Okay, I'm pissed off because this is what they, this is what was in the article that the person basically said, like they were angry that nothing really came out of that. And so they decided to send to then make complaints with all of these other agencies, local and federal agencies, and said like, now would you all look into it? And so that's how I, and really.
- [56:57]
Interviewer
Like a broader investigation into your husband, which is now going into things like his business and whether or not he was getting, you know, grants under, during COVID Relief, like it has expanded. Do you feel that you and your husband are being targeted because of you or how do you perceive these investigations that have drawn him in?
- [57:16]
Cori Bush
Yeah, so initially it was about me, it was, you know, silence her, shut her up. And also I think part of it too, because this, this, whoever this, this person is, this Trumper lawyer has gone after other squad members as well.
- [57:37]
Interviewer
What is in lawyer's name?
- [57:39]
Cori Bush
I, I, I don't say the person's name because they get, they get, it.
- [57:44]
Interviewer
Gives them the attention that they want.
- [57:45]
Cori Bush
Yes.
- [57:46]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [57:46]
Cori Bush
Yes. So, but, you know, that was to stop me and to, and for me, I'm like, okay, so do you want me to die? Why? You know, it's just weird. But once we were investigated by Office of Congressional Ethics and it came back unanimous, no wrongdoing, you know, that person was even more angry. But anyway, but they had sent all of these complaints. They sent the complaint to the DOJ at the, the same time, they sent it to Ethics and these other agencies. And then it was after I announced the ceasefire resolution and a few weeks later that then the DOJ investigation started, which was like several months from when the complaint was made. And it was just, all, just the fact that we had already been cleared was like, why is this happening? But we were confident that we know, we were clear. We know, we saw how to do this, so we knew that we would be okay. But the fact that these folks keep coming back, trying to see if they could find something. I am not going to stop supporting St. Louis. I am not going to stop fighting for marginalized people in this country or abroad. I am not going to change or water down myself. And I will say this, my husband is stronger than me. My husband is strong and he is supportive of his Wife. I am not going to allow people's. Who they want me to be or who they want him to be to change who we actually are. And so we are just going to keep our message, and we're going to keep pushing forward the way that power works. People say, oh, the power is with the rich and the mighty. The power is with the people. That's why they spend so much money trying to discredit those that the people trust. That's why that matters, because the power is with the people. And so if you can, you can get to the people who are standing with the people and who are. Who the people have chosen as a. As a mouthpiece, then that hurts, you know, that larger group. And so I'm not going to back down. We're, you know, we know that we are going to come out victorious, so we're. We're okay.
- [60:06]
Interviewer
Are you concerned? I mean, the Justice Department is no longer the Justice Department. It's in the hands of Pamela, Joe Bondi, Pam Bondi, who's made it very clear that the purpose of the DOJ now is to attack anyone Donald Trump perceives as an enemy. Donald Trump is a supreme ally of Bibi Netanyahu. He has a distaste, I'll just say, for black women who he feels are too uppity. Right. He's gone after Letitia James. It was his ally that went after Marilyn Mosby. You could go on. Right. And so are you concerned that with the DOJ in the hands of Pam Bondi, it puts a bigger target on you because you're running for office again?
- [60:45]
Cori Bush
Thought about that. And I can't let them win. And so I have to fight. I have to fight this and them tooth and nail. So the same fight that I had to get off the streets when I lived on the streets with two babies, the same fight that I had out there on the streets of Ferguson, same fight I had when I was being abused by a partner and left for dead. All of that is the fight that I have right now to stand up for my community and to not allow people to fall into conditions that I did simply because of policy violence. So is that a concern? Yes. But my God is bigger, and that's who I trust in. And so I'm going. As long as. As long as I know that's my path and my mission, I won't back down from it. And the one thing that I keep before me, and when I say this, sometimes people are like, yeah, right. The one thing I keep before me is Harriet Tubman. And how many times Harriet Tubman got to her freedom and she went back. And I think about how she didn't do that in a car with tinted windows where she could just easily get cross state lines. She had to walk that and she walked it with people. And just thinking about what that's like, we don't want to walk from community to community, from the next county to the next county. She did that over and over and over again. And so when I think about how she risked herself for people, some she didn't even know, she risked herself over and over again to get free freedom for people. If she could do that, this is the least that I could do.
- [62:24]
Interviewer
Let me go through and do some quick rapid fire. I'm going to go through some policy things because let's say you're back in Congress and let me see where you stand on some of these things. Tariffs impact on St. Louis.
- [62:37]
Cori Bush
Look, so many people in St. Louis right now are already struggling. And, you know, we were pissed off about $6 eggs and $10 eggs is even worse. And so we have to start with the people who have the greatest need. So, you know, we lower the cost for the people and not, you know, I think so much of this is a power play. It's a power play when you have the money, you know, when you're trying to have a look, you know, our president to me is not, you know, the people that need us the most right now are the people who are being, who are left holding the bag.
- [63:15]
Interviewer
What about this issue of the invasion of blue cities? Even in a red, red, red state like Missouri, a city like St. Louis is the blue city. You're seeing Donald Trump, the administration putting military troops and also masked federal agents of various agencies, ice, et cetera, on the streets of blue cities. Your thoughts on that?
- [63:38]
Cori Bush
He wants us to go. In my opinion, the president wants there to be chaos, you know, wants there to be enough chaos, you know, is it for a civil war? Is it for to be able to institute martial law at some point so that he can stay in the presidency another term, you know, like, where is this leading? But to pick out blue cities and to send these masked agents. Let me a shout out to.
- [64:07]
Joy Reid
Our.
- [64:08]
Cori Bush
Good Mayor Brandon Johnson in Chicago, who has said, like, you know, who he's fighting back, you know, and it's a good, to me, it's a good, it's a good example for mayors across the country. I think it's egregious that, you know, people have to, like this fear. We already had enough Toxicity in our communities. Just whether it's in our air, whether it's, you know, making sure that we keep our communities safe, whatever type of violence in our communities, and just all of that. And now to put these mass agents on the ground who are just kidnapping people, you know, I. We have to fight this back. But also, I cannot wait for our new president to come in and undo all of the things that this man has done.
- [64:55]
Interviewer
Do you believe there'll be a free and fair election in 2020?
- [64:59]
Cori Bush
I believe that they're trying to stop that.
- [65:01]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [65:01]
Cori Bush
I believe they're trying to stop that. But I'm hoping that a warrior stands up and is someone that is able to like to convene. What? Like to change this to make sure that we do have a free and fair election.
- [65:14]
Interviewer
Do you have anybody in mind? Kennedy?
- [65:15]
Cori Bush
I have some thoughts.
- [65:17]
Interviewer
Wanna share?
- [65:18]
Cori Bush
No, but I wanna keep pushing her.
- [65:20]
Interviewer
Okay, I'll ask y' all to jump off the record. Let's talk about undocumented immigration, because this is the thing that is driving Donald Trump's agenda. What do you think should happen with people who are undocumented in the country?
- [65:30]
Cori Bush
There has to be a process. There has to be a humane process, a humane pathway for citizenship. We've been saying this for such a long time. You know, people coming to this country are looking for a place to, you know, to be safe and to grow and to build. People come to this country and they're like, I came here because I want to love this country. Like, I. You know, we have so many immigrants who have made such impact on this country. It broke me down. I remember some years back, and this wasn't, of course, this current administration, but I just remember, I'll never forget the agents on the horses with the whip or whatever, that we won't say whips, whatever that was in their hands.
- [66:23]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [66:24]
Cori Bush
You know, chasing people. And I think, and then fast forward to this administration and then whether it's businesses, people out on people on top of roofs, or people are working, there has to be a way instead of just putting people on a plane and shipping them places in your shipping, people are being shipped to places they haven't lived in years. They're being shipped to places they've never lived. If it was you. And it makes me also, it's just weird because the president and the vice president, you're like wives, you know, it's just like, how do you reconcile saying that some people aren't good enough to be in this country, but others are? And the initial, the Initial language was, oh, going after criminals. You know, are these people who are. Are they criminals because they've been like, they've been tried and convicted as criminals or because you call them criminals just because they crossed the border and they were seeking asylum? So I am. I'm going to stand up for making sure that there is a humane process, that we don't have people in detention centers, that there is not another Alligator, Alcatraz or anything like that. Their families are not separated. I always have to look at things from the standpoint of, if it was me, would I want someone to do the extra work to make sure that there is a process?
- [67:53]
Interviewer
If you are in office right now, would you vote on that clean CR to reopen the government?
- [68:03]
Cori Bush
I'd be standing with the Democrats right now because there is no way that. And I've done it before. You don't. Why are we okay knocking people off of their health insurance? Health insurance is actually something that each and every person needs because at some point, like, your body is, like, you have no control over what happens to your body. But having preventative care helps you to not end up in other positions. And having the care that you need keeps you safe as well as other people safe. So I am going to support making sure that we not only keep people on whether it's the Medicaid rose, whether we're talking about Medicare, whatever kind of healthcare, we're talking about aca, but also increasing that. So that's what I would be fighting for if I was there. Not only keeping us on the roads, but increasing it. I've had Medicaid before. Yes, I am in support of the Democrats fighting for that and speaking to that right now. And then insurance premiums going up by 75%. You know, the. It's funny, though. I remember being in the House and the GOP saying, you know, oh, this is you. You can't. You can't. You know, like, you have to be willing to come to the table. You know, when Democrats are in power, you got to be willing to come to the table and, you know, we have to be able to work on this together. Well, where is that togetherness now? And they keep calling it the Democrat, like the Democrat shutdown. But you're in control of the. You're in control of the whole government. Yes, the Senate and the House. So, you know, what is your messaging and what is so wrong with your clean CR that you're big and bad and in control and you couldn't get it done? Bring the Democrats to the table. In good faith.
- [70:05]
Interviewer
What about you talked about in control of your body, not in your state, not in several states. In terms of abortion rights, do you fear that there's going to be a de facto national abortion ban?
- [70:17]
Cori Bush
Yeah, I do. And I also believe that right now with another recent reporting that Mifepressone, which is the number one abortion pill, the drug that is used most widely to make sure that the drug that is most widely used for people across the country to be able to have abortions safely in their homes, now that it's going to be investigated and looked into as if it is unsafe, even though it's been unsafe for such a long time. And we're going. So we're going to see. I truly believe that they're looking at so many different ways to be able to end abortion, regardless of what state it is, just on the federal level. But if they can't do it, like you said, in a de facto way. That's why I stood, I stood with my fellow members of Congress to make sure that we were working against the Comstock act being used to help. You know this. Like to me it's archaic law. That would be that de facto way for. Because it would be considered, you know this. It's obscene.
- [71:36]
Interviewer
Like a controlled substance.
- [71:37]
Cori Bush
Controlled substance, yes.
- [71:39]
Interviewer
Should Joe Biden have ratified the era?
- [71:42]
Cori Bush
You were part of the big push.
- [71:43]
Interviewer
To make the Equal rights amendment the 28th amendment to the Constitution. Why do you suppose he didn't just take the initiative and record or force his archivist to record the era? And should he have done that?
- [71:57]
Cori Bush
He absolutely should have done that. He absolutely should have his legacy. To me, that would have been just a great thing for his legacy, even though it's even a greater thing for the country just having gender equality. Why are we still waiting for that now in this 2025? He should have done that. He should have instructed the archivist to do it. I do. We were surprised that with the last few days of his presidency that he did come out and call it considerate an amendment to the Constitution. But it was way too late for there to be any organizing around it. And the archivist was set on no, I'm not going to do this. Ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment, which we are talking about. Some people think that it only involves abortion rights, but this is workplace harassment and discrimination. Discrimination in housing. It's are giving rights for our trans community. It is just a big umbrella for making sure that there is equality. I remember working in several different jobs where there was not equality in our wages and at one point, being the supervisor where I had staff, I'll never forget, we brought someone in. I had nurses who were making more. I mean, who were making a wage. We were bringing someone in who had less experience, but we had to pay him more. I was told that we had to pay him more simply because he was a man. And I fought that tooth and nail. Didn't win, but I fought that tooth and nail. So it made me do my own calculations. And I remember being about $20,000, you know, my white male counterparts being making $20,000 more than I, you know, a year simply because of the paid discrimination and, and the, you know, so absolutely fighting for the equal. Equal Rights Amendment. He should have done that. Because now we have four years where we know that it's not going to happen. And we're also being pushed back further. But let me say this about the next president. We get this next Democrat in the presidency. I need them to come for all of it. We need to undo what, what this administration has done. But now, whoever you are, you go. Because we've seen them trample on our rights. We need to go back and get everything that they stole and then go back for more. Go back for what we were trying to work on before they got there.
- [74:38]
Interviewer
Yeah. Not the previous status quo. You talked about President Biden's legacy. What do you think his legacy is?
- [74:46]
Cori Bush
He did a lot for student loan debt. I know a lot of people who, Whose financial situations changed because of, you know, him, his work on canceling student debt. And that was something, honestly, that when he was running, you know, we know that it was a campaign, you know, that the campaign promise was that he would look into it.
- [75:07]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [75:07]
Cori Bush
And for him to actually do it. So I do believe that that is a part of his legacy. I just, I believe, though, that because of how his time in the presidency ended with this genocide happening in Gaza, I just believe so many. Because we have to remember that those who were voting four years ago, five years ago, six years ago, they're getting older. We are all getting older. And then there are this. There's this younger generation that's every, you know, every year there are more people turning 18 that are paying attention. And so what that legacy is like, there are so many who. That's what they know. They don't know the Joe Biden of 20 years ago or 10 years ago.
- [76:00]
Interviewer
Yeah. With the Ray Bans and the Trans Am. They don't know that guy.
- [76:04]
Cori Bush
They don't know him. They know the person who allowed the bombs or Helped, you know, to help send bombs to make Gaza look like, you know, a parking lot full of rubble where people are starving right now. And so many lives have been lost.
- [76:22]
Interviewer
On the day that we're recording this interview, the breaking news is that there seems to be a ceasefire deal that Hamas and the Israelis have signed in Egypt. Do you think that this ends the suffering of the Palestinian people? The return of the hostages is supposed to be part of the deal. I've been trying to comb through the stories. I haven't read anything about whether the bombing will stop. What do you think is going to be the outcome of this alleged peace deal?
- [76:50]
Cori Bush
First, I just wonder, is it going to hold? Is this going to be a true peace deal? We've seen deal after deal after deal. Bombing didn't stop, or there was a cessation of bombing. I'll believe it when it happens. I believe it when I see it. Am I hopeful that finally this is it? Absolutely. But will the bombing stop? Will the humanitarian aid that is good that people can actually consume, will it actually start to flow in? Will the aid workers be able to get in and be able to do what they need to do and serve unharmed? Will there be an effort to put more resources on the ground for hospitals and clinics? Will there be a true effort to help rebuild Gaza, or will there still be this displacement? You know, is it going to be okay, we'll stop, like, there'll be a ceasefire, but we want to displace the Palestinians, we want to displace the people of Gaza, we want to displace people in the West Bank. Is that what is going to happen? And so I have. I have not seen enough yet to think that this is something that is truly going to be what is needed on the ground right now. And the thing is this. There's so much devastation. There is just. The situation is so beyond throwing some money at it or saying that we're going to try to fix this, that, like, so much has to happen. There's so much in the immediate that has to happen to help the people of Gaza right now who are dying, kids are dying to help them right now. But then also the lasting effects of it. Like, who's doing something about the lasting effects of the white phosphorus that hit those, that hit those communities. Who's going to do something about what that looks like for people in five years and maybe, you know, whether they have effects now? Who's going to do something about the. Whatever came from all of those buildings being piled up on the. On the ground for Such a long time. And what the. What does that look like environmentally? Like, all of this should be a concern of ours and how Palestinians are able to rebuild and can they rebuild and build and build their land back? Build that land back that they had, do they get their land back? If they owned a home, if they had property, do they get it back? Like people that came to this country, if they want to go back home, will they be able to. So that's what I want to see.
- [79:42]
Interviewer
Yeah. I mean, on the domestic front, there's this sort of same kind of question about rebuilding, but black women have lost so much in this era. The people who voted 92% for Kamala Harris are now facing more than 300,000 jobs lost. The highest unemployment rate or increase in unemployment has been among black women. How do we rebuild? If, as you say, you seem very optimistic, you're the more optimistic. My name is Joy, and I'm really not optimistic. You're optimistic about there being a president that isn't named Donald Trump in our near future. How do we rebuild what we've lost?
- [80:24]
Cori Bush
So while all of these wonderful groups and attorneys are keeping score, I really hope y' all got this scorecard down while they are doing that. There should be a. There should be multiple things happening right now. So keeping the scorecard, what do we need to fix and who's in place to fix it?
- [80:44]
Interviewer
Where are.
- [80:45]
Cori Bush
Where are our attorneys? Even our new attorneys coming out, like, getting those new attorneys to work, those in school, like, getting those folks working? And then what is it? The other bucket of the things that we were working on prior to Donald Trump's, you know, even in 2017, when he came into office, you know, like, what were we working on prior to that? You know, that we need to, like, having all of these different buckets. And then who are the people, whether. Whether they are local, state, Congress, who are the people that will help to get those things done? What we need is people that are flipping tables right now. That's what we need. That's how we get it done. We don't. We, you know, the people who are like, well, we need to do it, like, incremental. We need to be, you know, yes, okay, you all work on. We'll give you a page of stuff to do. But the folks that are willing to flip the tables over and say, we are getting ready to smash all of this to pieces, and we are going, what is it that you need? This is what we're going for. Those are the people that we need to the front right Now. And so what we need is we know we have those in our communities. We know who, who's been sidelined. We know who doesn't have enough money to run and all of that. Those are the folks we need to be working on right now. We need to work on them. We need to build them up so that they can be. Be ready in three years to start to take these seats. But also, even if they're working in organizations, even if they're working in the private sector, those are the ones that we turn to. I like, we don't have time to play the it's my turn game. That's dead. It's my turn game. No, no. Is it your mission right now? Is it your purpose right now? Is it your work? Because people are hurting in the midst. And so that is how we rebuild. We rebuild by saying, look, it's 300. It's over 300,000 black women that have lost their jobs. And we know that that's only the tip of the iceberg. We know men, black men have, you know, I think, the second highest number of losses. Black men. Okay, so then, so then we know that these are the folks, okay? We're trying to find jobs for black men and women and so many other people right now. What were the jobs they were doing? You were working in the private, in the, in the, in the federal government. So you have X, Y and Z skills. Let me not give all the, Let me not give all the, all the strategy away, but let me just say this. There is a way that you can take those folks with certain skills because there are other organizations that have resources to be able to have them do things. That's how we rebuild. And I'll just say that about that. Putting even just those folks to work who are highly skilled right now, add them to the people who, in our communities, we all know who they are getting those people out of the shadows and giving them a mic, giving them the resources, giving them the backing to be able to be ready.
- [83:46]
Interviewer
If you get back reelected to your former office In Missouri's District 1, first thing you would do.
- [83:55]
Cori Bush
First thing I'll say is it depends on who the president is getting ready to be firm.
- [84:00]
Interviewer
Affair.
- [84:02]
Cori Bush
Yeah. Yeah. If, if there's going to be a free and fair election. I mean, if there was a free and fair election and we have a Democrat as president, I am going to be. I will have already done the work to let them know that, like, this is what I want to do and this is how I want to help. Well, let Me back up. Let me back up 20, 26. Let me back up 20, 26. First thing that I would do is look at all the things that Congress has done that has been in line with Donald Trump, which I will have probably done that beforehand, that Donald Trump has done that I could speak to an impact. That is probably all I want to say about it, because I don't want to give anybody help something to attack me.
- [84:51]
Interviewer
Yeah. Okay. All right. So let me do my quick lightning round. This is my real lightning round. This is my general lighting. And then so we gonna bring the temperature. More fun. We're gonna have a little bit more fun with you now. Right now. Okay. Now we're gonna talk about your campaign a little bit. Walk on song is.
- [85:05]
Cori Bush
Ooh.
- [85:08]
Interviewer
You can see. See, I did not prepare this sister for any of these questions, but give.
- [85:11]
Cori Bush
Us a walk in my head. But it's playing in my head. But I. I'll. You know. What. Oh, what is it? My husband and I play it in the. In the car all the time.
- [85:25]
Interviewer
Somebody off camera want to tell them.
- [85:26]
Cori Bush
What the Walk on song is. What's the song? What's the song that we play in the car that you always get me pumped up with? No, the one. The one to fight the. I won't. I won't fight the Bone Crusher. Yeah, what's that one?
- [85:46]
Interviewer
The Bone Crusher song. Wait, hold on a second. What is the bone.
- [85:49]
Cori Bush
Yeah.
- [85:50]
Interviewer
Never scared.
- [85:50]
Cori Bush
Never scared. Never scared. I never scared. I never scared. I never scared.
- [85:57]
Interviewer
Yes, that's a good size of.
- [85:59]
Cori Bush
Okay. That's a good walk.
- [86:00]
Interviewer
I saw. Okay, greatest musical. And there was a right answer.
- [86:03]
Cori Bush
Greatest musical there is.
- [86:05]
Interviewer
Come on. Know the right answer. I don't know how anybody doesn't know the answer. I mean, that's clear.
- [86:12]
Cori Bush
Come on.
- [86:13]
Interviewer
It's clear.
- [86:13]
Cori Bush
If I could be in the Wiz.
- [86:15]
Interviewer
Come on.
- [86:15]
Cori Bush
Look.
- [86:15]
Interviewer
Okay, who would you. In the Wiz? Which character is you most like you?
- [86:20]
Cori Bush
So I would be Dorothy, just because that's who I. You know, main character energy.
- [86:25]
Interviewer
Main character energy.
- [86:26]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [86:26]
Cori Bush
That's main character. But, you know, probably. No, I would say Dorothy. I would say Dorothy. Cause I get to dance.
- [86:34]
Interviewer
You get to dance. You get to do all the things.
- [86:36]
Cori Bush
And get to be with all the people.
- [86:37]
Interviewer
Absolutely. I would rather I'll be Dorothy, but right now, in this menopause moment, I think I might be the Tin Man. I feel like.
- [86:42]
Cori Bush
I feel like I'm all creaky.
- [86:43]
Interviewer
Look, I need some slides, some oil. It be creaky. I'm telling you. Menopause you're getting this. Cause you're young.
- [86:50]
Cori Bush
But I will say that Michael Jackson, when he had the scarecrow, when he came off of that, you know, when.
- [86:55]
Interviewer
He was getting his leg, you can't win it. You can't get even. It is the greatest movie ever made. Diana Ross, I mean, it's just legendary. Nipsey Russell, I mean, you name it, it's so incredible. Okay, okay. Let me think of another question. That is a nice, light question that's good to end this interview on. What gives you hope and what gives you joy.
- [87:17]
Cori Bush
Hope is that, you know, first, because I love God, and that's where my faith is. We're here. So my hope is that we are still here, which means that there is so much more that can be done. That it's not that nothing is impossible because we'll keep fighting. And you said, what gives you joy?
- [87:37]
Interviewer
Other than being around joy?
- [87:38]
Cori Bush
You see what you do?
- [87:39]
Interviewer
No, what gives you joy? For real? For real.
- [87:42]
Cori Bush
My husband and our kids.
- [87:44]
Interviewer
I knew she was gonna say that.
- [87:45]
Cori Bush
They do like, they do.
- [87:48]
Interviewer
Family gives you joy. It really does.
- [87:49]
Cori Bush
Yeah, I absolutely. Because my family has gone through. My family has gone through everything that I've gone through.
- [87:54]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [87:55]
Cori Bush
And they're still like, corey, go. I was like, I can't run again. Because I don't want to put my family through all this again.
- [88:00]
Interviewer
How do your kids feel about you running again? Are they like, mom, please.
- [88:02]
Cori Bush
No. They're like, yay.
- [88:03]
Interviewer
Okay, okay, okay.
- [88:04]
Cori Bush
Yeah. Yeah. My whole family's like, dude, not one person that I've. That in my family has said no. And actually it was my husband that was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And my dad's like, corey, I thought we were getting out of politics, you know, because he was like, so, like, just.
- [88:20]
Interviewer
Oh, it's hard for a parent.
- [88:21]
Cori Bush
It was hard for him. He was like, I don't want them to hurt my baby. But, you know, now he's like, telling everybody, okay, you know, so, yes.
- [88:28]
Interviewer
And my exit question, I promise, is an exit question. What should we eat if we can only get one meal in St. Louis? What's the food we need? What do we. What we. You know, we got to come out there and cover this campaign. So what we eat?
- [88:41]
Cori Bush
I gotta take you to get ribs.
- [88:43]
Joy Reid
Okay.
- [88:43]
Cori Bush
I gotta take you get ribs.
- [88:44]
Interviewer
So I have to come off my vegetarian. I mean, I'm a semi vegetarian, semi pescatarian, but I'll come off it. Cause you know, I will eat a cheeseburger when I need it.
- [88:51]
Cori Bush
That's what you Got to do.
- [88:51]
Interviewer
Okay, so we gotta get ribs.
- [88:52]
Cori Bush
So we'll take you two places. You gotta get hood ribs.
- [88:55]
Interviewer
Okay. Okay.
- [88:56]
Cori Bush
And then we gotta get more commercial ribs.
- [88:57]
Interviewer
Can we get commercial?
- [88:58]
Cori Bush
Both of them are good. Okay, so the bougie ribs and the hood ribs.
- [89:01]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [89:02]
Cori Bush
Yeah, hood ribs and bougie ribs.
- [89:03]
Interviewer
And I'm set.
- [89:04]
Cori Bush
You said. And then we'll get you some. We'll get you some St. Louis Chinese food.
- [89:07]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [89:08]
Cori Bush
Because we. We have our own thing, its own culture. Its own culture. Okay. Yeah. Nobody got what happened.
- [89:15]
Joy Reid
Gotta do.
- [89:16]
Interviewer
Grace. Grace.
- [89:17]
Joy Reid
Okay. Okay.
- [89:18]
Cori Bush
How you doing the interview from over there? From over there.
- [89:20]
Interviewer
You see what happens?
- [89:21]
Joy Reid
You see what?
- [89:21]
Cori Bush
And then by the way, that my.
- [89:22]
Interviewer
Husband also doing the interview from over there. Cori Bush, best of luck. Please feel free to come back. Thank you for sharing so much, especially all that insight from the way it is in Congress. I know people will appreciate knowing how things work on the inside. Best of luck with your Kim.
- [89:36]
Cori Bush
Thank you for having me. Again, thank you. In a missing.
- [89:41]
Interviewer
All right, thank you.
- [89:43]
Joy Reid
Thank you, Cori Bush and Courtney Merritz.
- [89:45]
Interviewer
And thank you for tuning in.
- [89:47]
Joy Reid
Please be sure to hit like and subscribe and make sure you never miss any of this content and that you keep this new media enterprise going. We appreciate you. Whether you're listening or watching on YouTube.
- [89:56]
Interviewer
Substack or Spotify, be sure to also support our sponsors and we will see.
- [90:00]
Joy Reid
You on the next Enjoy.
- [90:02]
Musical Performer
Reach Getting back to the basics grassroot level let me dig a little deeper with the shovel plenty can't tell the forest from the trees that I'm hard to detect like a black hole in the dark and justice any everywhere it's a threat to justice everywhere let me make this clear I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat of poverty they don't want to talk about it they rap the party so I'm a real talk about it for sure.