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- [00:01]
Child
Did you know?
- [00:01]
Joy Reid
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Interviewer/Guest
Okay.
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Joy Reid
Tgif. Tgif. Welcome to the Joy Reid show. Big up to everybody that is in the chats already. I already see the Lemonheads already acting up in the YouTube chat. Big up to everybody. Also on the stacks, all our substack fam. We love y' all as well, our Facebook fam. Hello to you and also if you are on Twitch. Hello, Twitchies. I'm logging into Twitch right now. Just I can see all you Twitchies, see what y' all are talking about because y' all are always cute. Y' all always have some adorable things to say. Thanks everybody. Who's tuning in? Don't forget today at the end of the show, this is our members only. Our members only ask me anything after party. So start thinking about what cocktails you're going to want to have or mocktails that you're going to want to have. Maybe you're a Willy's remedy person. You want a mocktail, whatever. Think about what you're going to do. And also, you still have time. I do believe that if you go ahead, hit like and subscribe now. Become a subscriber. You can get in or become a member. You can get in on that members only chat. There's still time. We have questions for in the members only chat today because we have two topics we're going to talk about in the members only chat. One of them is going to be all of this controversy about AI music and whether real music artists ought to be supporting that and whether a college should disenroll students if they didn't pay because that's the thing that happened. So those are going to be our two questions, but we also are going to let you guys ask anything if you guys have comments, questions, anything you want to do that's going to be in the members Only after the show. And we also have a surprise inside of the members only chat that I'm only going to announce in the members only chat because I can't tell everybody because it's like a giveaway. All right, so that's it. That's all of my housekeeping for the evening. Let me jump right into a theme at the top. You know, we're talking about candidates and catastrophes today. So we're going to have some great candidates on that are running for office. Let you guys talk about some of these races that are going on in Arkansas, in Florida. Rashad Robinson is going to join at the end of the show to talk about his new book and our event that we're going to be doing together regarding that. So we got a big show, hour two. We're gonna dig deep into the latest on the Nolan Wells case. One of the friends has given an interview to the worst possible person in America. Like the worst person. We're gonna break that interview down and see whether that interview was helpful or maybe actually did more harm than good. So that's hour two. But right now let's jump in, let's jump into our top story because sometimes the truth can come from very strange places. Okay, so the House just passed the ndaa. This is the National Defense Authorization Act. That's an, it's a must pass bill to fund the Department of Defense. It's still called the Department of Defense and it includes a division, a provision that effectively merges the US Military and military intelligence apparatus of the United States with the idf. Yes, the same Israeli Defense Force that is committing a genocide in Gaza and now in Lebanon. Now here's the roll call that included six Democrats, not including Hakeem Jeffries, by the way, Henry Cuellar of Texas, Don Davis of North Carolina, Jared golden of Maine, Vicente Gonzalez of Texas, Adam Gray of California and Maria Gluson Camperez of Washington State, all of whom are up for reelection. Now, among the Republicans who voted with all of the six, all the six Democrats to not who actually voted with the six Democrats to go ahead and fund Israel, to give Israel the money and to merge our defense establishment with Israel is French Hill of Arkansas. We're going to be talking to his opponent shortly. So French Hill of Arkansas voted yes. Several Republicans back those Republicans who voted no. Do not merge our establishment. Don't merge our military establishment. Jason, if you can put back up a one, the Republicans who voted with most Democrats, except for those six to say please do not merge our military and Israel's military were these Republicans, Josh Brecken of Oklahoma, Tim Burchett of Tennessee, Eli Crane of Arizona, Harriet Hegeman of Wyoming, Anna Paulina Luna of Florida, Thomas Massie, of course, and Chip Roy of Texas. But guess who has the tea on those people and whether all of Them were being really super honest about a vote that's going to be popular with the base. The base of Republicans are very anti Israel, as are the base of Democrats. Okay. Sometimes a broken clock is right two times. Here goes Marjorie Taylor Greene being right one of her two times. Here she is.
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Marjorie Taylor Greene
Just want to follow up on a video that I put out explaining the NDAA vote that happened yesterday. Explaining the two votes. Every time a bill passes the House floor, it has to cross two hurdles. The first vote is called the rule vote. The second vote is final passage vote. Now, that's super confusing and it's really stupid, but that's the way they do it. We had seven total Republicans vote no on final passage to the NDAA because of section 219 and other issues that they didn't like within the bill. We are thankful to them for voting no. However, that was a safe no vote. And let me explain that there's two ways to vote no. There's the safe no vote, which is voting no on a bill when you know it's going to pass so you don't have to make anybody mad and you can still vote no because it's going to pass even without your vote. Then there's the courageousness no vote, and that is voting no on the rule, the first vote for that bill to cross the final passage. When you vote no on the rule vote, you're voting no against everyone. You're voting no against leadership. You're voting no against the White House. You are taking a hard seat and saying, I am 100% against this bill. I do not want it to pass. There was only one Republican that took the courageous no vote on the rule vote. That was Thomas Massie. He voted no. The other Republicans only voted no on the second vote, the final passage vote, when they knew that the bill was going to pass. Okay, so there's a difference. And that's what you need to understand. There's the two votes. One is the rule vote. The second vote is final passage. And the most courageous vote any member of Congress can take is voting no on the rule. Here's the difference. The rule vote passed 213 to 212. 213 to 212. If those six other Republicans had voted no with Thomas Massie on the rule vote, the rule would have failed and the NDAA could not have moved forward to the second final passage vote. However, they voted yes on the rule, allowing it to move forward, and Thomas was the only one that voted no. But when it came to final passage. Six decided to vote no then because it was safe. You want to know why? Because there were six Democrats that were voting yes. That's what you need to know. If you want to put your members of Congress into action, call them and start telling them to vote no on the rule. Don't let them make videos and wash their hands and say, I did everything I could. No. If they really want to stop something, vote no on the rule.
- [08:06]
Joy Reid
And there you go, some civics tea from Marjorie Taylor Greene. This is when, when regular people run for Congress, this is the benefit you get sometimes, because I'll tell you how the inside stuff works. These people did a fake no vote so they could look like they were with the base, but in reality, they failed to stop the bill from getting there in the first place. And when she says section 219, that's the provision merging our military establishment in many ways with Israel. Joining us running me now is the opponent of French Hill of Arkansas, who voted yes to do the merger. And that is our good friend, Chris Jones. Hey, Chris, how are you?
- [08:39]
Chris Jones
Hey, how's it going, Joy? Great to see you.
- [08:42]
Joy Reid
Doing well. Doing well. So let's talk about that for a moment. What do you make of this new reality, at least in the House of Representatives, Members of Congress voting to merge parts of our military establishment, not having Israel control our military or merge their forces with ours, but to give them the kind of access to our military technology, our surveillance technology, our kill tech, basically, and to merge that in, in a way that's very, very difficult to undo.
- [09:11]
Chris Jones
Yeah. You know, it's really strange. In some ways, we're integrated with several of our allies, particularly with the military. And there are mutual defense agreements. We don't have that with Israel. And we're giving them privilege without the same requirements that the other mutual agreements with other nations have. Now, French Hill voted to deepen the relationship and integration with Israel, unlike our NATO allies, Japan, South Korea. So really it's a treaty with no obligation on their part, but yet we're giving up everything on our part. It baffles me.
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Joy Reid
And so, I mean, what do you. I mean, French Hill voted for it. What does, how does that help the people of Arkansas?
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Chris Jones
It doesn't. And French Hill has consistently voted in ways that do not help, in fact, harm the people of Arkansas. He's consistently voted against our best interests, whether it's talking about increasing bank fees or merging our military with the Israeli military or cutting SNAP benefits or cutting support to rural hospitals. He consistently votes in a way that does harm to voters in Arkansas.
- [10:17]
Joy Reid
Have you gotten, you know, you are the Democratic nominee now. Have you gotten a call to do the APAC fellowship to head over? Because this is the thing. I've seen some of the sort of, the outreach. I've seen some of the way it looks like, the emails, the letters that go to members and candidates saying, hey, come join our team. Has that happened for you yet?
- [10:36]
Chris Jones
I have not gotten a call, yeah.
- [10:38]
Joy Reid
And if you did get that call, is that something you would do? Because there is a very sort of heavy attempt to recruit, like, freshmen Democrats and say, hey, this is how we want you to vote, to sort of school people in the ways of voting in a way that favors Israel's interests. It just, it's baffling to me that a foreign country could do that, but
- [10:54]
Chris Jones
it is a thing that much influence. Look, my. My focus is on Arkansans. My arkansans in the 2nd congressional district will be my boss. So that. That's who I would look to. I have no plans, no desire. I would certainly turn it down if I got the offer to make that trip over.
- [11:11]
Joy Reid
Talk about what it is that is. Is making you want to run. I mean, you're a rocket scientist. You're really smart. You could really do a cut of almost anything you wanted to do. Why do you want to be in Congress of all places? It seems like not a very pleasant place to be these days.
- [11:22]
Chris Jones
Well, like you said, I'm a rocket scientist. We like big problems. And, you know, I go where the challenge is.
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Joy Reid
And, I mean, you're literally a rocket science. This is my favorite thing about Chris is I used to have him come on to literally talk about space when I had my old job, because he's literally a rocket scientist.
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Interviewer/Guest
But.
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Chris Jones
Go on. No, no, that's true. And again, we like big problems. Well, here's the deal. The way I see it, over the next three to five years, the front lines of the foundation that will set the tone for the next 200 years is in Congress. If we don't get Congress right and write the rules that include all of us, write the rules that regulate AI, write the rules that. That. That stop allowing all the benefits to accumulate to a small, wealthy few, then we're in big trouble. And so I'm saying I want to go to the front line and fight on behalf of a state that my family has been in for over 200 years. That's why I'm doing it.
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Joy Reid
Pete Buttigieg is behind you. What other national Democrats are in there? Helping you?
- [12:20]
Chris Jones
Yes. We have Pete Buttigieg behind us. JB Pritzker is behind us. We just got an endorsement from Andy Beshear and there'll be a few others that will be coming out in the next several weeks.
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Joy Reid
Is the DCCC committing? Have they committed to spend money? Because we've had this conversation as well. The Democrats have in large part ceded the South. I mean, for God's sakes, Bill Clinton came from Arkansas, right? I mean, he was President of the United States. He was governor. And you know, last I checked, when President Obama was elected, there was a Democratic senator from Arkansas. So it's like in a very recent. In the very recent past, Democrats were able to win in Arkansas. Have you gotten a call from the D trip saying, hey, you know what? And the dccc, for those of you who are not insider political people, is the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which is the official arm of the Democratic Party that spends in House races. Have they called you and said, we will write you checks?
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Chris Jones
So I've had several conversations with the D trip. I have not received a check as of yet. We are in conversations, but I'll tell you, look, Joy, you know, we know this game. And my focus is on Arkansas. Most of our donations have come from small dollar donors. And in fact, we met French Hill in fundraising in the last quarter, but would have beat him if not for a $200,000 transfer from a Team Hill account would have outraised him in the last quarter. But our money comes from small dollar donors because from the beginning, I knew that this wasn't about any national attention, anyone coming flying in to save the day. It was about getting in communities across the district and activating them and addressing their concerns and listening to them. And Joy, you know me, I'm a listener, and that's what I've been doing across this district. So they may come in with money. We're not banking on it. We would love the support. Love to support from anyone. And to your point, people overlook places like Arkansas when it doesn't actually cost that much. Our media market is way cheaper than other places we can get to our voters. We just, we do need that support. However, I'm a mathematician and I ran the numbers and we're banking our numbers on grassroots ground. Get out the game, get out the vote.
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Joy Reid
What is your district like? Like, what are the demographics? What are the key industries? What are people's key concerns?
- [14:31]
Chris Jones
Yeah, so we Central Arkansas, we're about two thirds urban, about a third rural. So there's farming there, heavy banking is a big part of the industry there. We have some manufacturing. Little Rock is in, in the area now. I'll tell you this. About four years ago, they set the model for what Memphis did. So they took Little Rock and Pulaski county and split it up, took 25,000 black voters out of Little Rock and brought in 25,000 voters into the district. That made it a little bit more competitive for French Hill. But I've run under those lines. And so when you look across the district, we tend to be, we're the most Democratic leaning district in the state and the most competitive seat in the state. So this is one that can be won. And we knew that from the beginning and we've been working our tails off to make it happen.
- [15:24]
Joy Reid
Yeah, I mean the thing is, if you think about the Republican control of the House, it's like it's by a whisper. It was four seats and they're going to have. And you know, Hakeem Jeffries is the speaker. It's such a. And with those narrow margins, one would think national Democrats would hyper focus on a seat like yours, the one you're running for, which seems so flippable.
- [15:45]
Chris Jones
Tell me this there, you know, so again, D trip has not come in yet, but national. There are national folks who are paying attention again this year. You know, Governor Pritzker, we have raised over a million dollars. We, we are actually ahead of French Hill in the polls by three points and that's in the initial horse race for those who love polling. So this race is poised for us to win. And to your point, we just, we, we would love to some more attention on the race.
- [16:12]
Joy Reid
Yeah, maybe, maybe France should run in Israel since he seems to be doing
- [16:15]
Chris Jones
a lot more for them, do everything for them. Yeah.
- [16:18]
Joy Reid
For defense contractors than he is for people of Arkansas.
- [16:20]
Chris Jones
And we're going to remind people of his record. Right. It's Israel, it's the nra. It's the big banks and the billionaires. It's never regular Arkansans. I mean, you know, we, we are the hungriest state in the nation. Even though we serve folk. We are agricultural state and we tons of farming. We are the poorest educated state in the nation. So these are things that we can change and fix. And that's why I say as a rocket scientist, I want big problems. This is a big problem. Let's fix it.
- [16:48]
Joy Reid
Last question. How do people as you're going door to door feel about the war in Iran?
- [16:52]
Chris Jones
Oh, they're not happy. Look, we're, we're that's the other thing. So I'm, my, my, myself am a combat veteran spouse. So I remember being at home while my wife was deployed in Afghanistan. And you never want to be the one on the other end of that message that four families received just in the last several days. And Arkansas know that because we have a multiple, we have multiple military bases in our district. Lots of veterans in our district. They understand the cost of war. They understand the sacrifice that war brings. They are willing to make that sacrifice, but we're now asking them to make that sacrifice with no mission, with no goals, with no plan and all for what reason? They are not happy about what's going on with this war, Chris. And I'll tell you this, the other reason they're not happy is because it's gas prices are through the roof. You know, it's hitting their pocketbooks. So even those who don't understand the nuances of the military, when they go to fill up their tank, when they go to buy fertilizer, they're like, I can't do this. And folks are ready for it to stop.
- [17:56]
Joy Reid
Yeah. I mean in a state that's providing food, for food to be unaffordable is just obscene. This is a, this is a state that's feeding the country and can't feed themselves. It's crazy.
- [18:05]
Paul Butler
Right?
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Chris Jones
Right.
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David Jolly
Right.
- [18:06]
Chris Jones
We're gonna fix that.
- [18:07]
Joy Reid
Chris Jones for Congress and put this website back up if you could please. Chrisjonesforcongress.com if you guys want to support this brother, this is a winnable race. This doesn't take a ton of money, but it's going to take people to get up off their behinds, get off the couch and vote. You can change the world with just a vote. So we, we love Chris Jones. Thank you very much, my friend. Best of luck. Posted.
- [18:27]
Chris Jones
I will take care. Thank you.
- [18:28]
Joy Reid
Thank you very much. I will note, by the way, this is just a side note. If Chris was to join, he would be like the 60 something member of the Congressional Black Caucus. Unless Nancy Mace gets her way. Crazy ass Nancy Mace. Her latest antics is that she is now saying that the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and the Asian American Caucus should all be disbanded because it's racist. Does she want a Congressional White Caucus? Because that's like everybody else. I don't even understand what's happening. Okay. People are so frustrating. Moving on. So on August 18, Florida is going to hold their primary. So the primary in Arkansas has already happened. Chris is the nominee. He's going to the general so he's like, it's like on Star Search. He's already made it through Simon Cowell and he's going to Hollywood. But Florida isn't there yet. Florida is still teeing up to figure out who is going to be their nominees and on the Democratic side in the governor's race. Okay, so we already know Florida 20 is a mess, a mess. That race is going to be a hot, smoking, awful mess. We know that in Florida 24, which is Frederica Wilson, she is retiring. We know that. That's a mess. That is a mess. I don't know what's going to happen there. Multiple people running in both, including Kendrick Meeks son has now jumped into that race with our friend Chevron Jones, a mess. And the former mayor of Miami Gardens, like, they're all running. So it's like, you know, 80 people per race. Debbie Wasman Schultz, of course, jumped out of her own district to run in Florida 20. That's a mess. Uncle Luke is in that race and a bunch of other candidates. But that's a train wreck of epic proportions. APAC playing a role in, in the whole mess as well, picking their candidates who hopefully will run through the middle of these pack crazy fields. So Florida's a mess. It doesn't really get much more messy than what's happening in the governor's race. Byron Donalds, who you may recall is the guy who said that black Americans were better off during Jim Crow, if you'll remember that, that guy is running for governor. He's in a primary in which the candidates against him are even further to the right and they're fighting about who is more beloved by Donald Trump. So that's on that side. On the other side, on the Democratic side, among the candidates is somebody who you are probably quite familiar with, if you used to listen to a lot of MSNBC when it was called that. And you will recognize this gentleman. His name is David Jolly. Take a look.
- [21:06]
David Jolly (voice in video)
An average day on the trail, as I say, we try to leave it all on the field. We try to use every hour we can.
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David Jolly
So what do we do?
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David Jolly (voice in video)
We try to do local community work, Hear the voices, hear the stories. We try to do a coalition building event, whether it's a town hall. We try to sit with local leaders or civic leaders. But look, a real day on the campaign is also me hustling to get home, you know, five the schedule to try to get home, to see my kids before they fall asleep, to be there when they wake up. I've asked for the opportunity to be the candidate. I've accepted my role as the candidate. I accept the responsibility of trying to marshal together this coalition. But this is a moment where the entire state of Florida can stand up and do something we haven't seen in American politics in a long time. That gets me excited. Right since the emergency of Donald Trump in 2015, when he came down the escalator, he has disrupted the entire American experiment over the last 10 years. If in the state of Florida, Florida's voters are the ones who say not anymore, yes, for people who are concerned about the future of the country, we will have provided a reset, but we will have also been given an opportunity. And I don't think much past Election day. I don't. I'm not wired like that. But I sometimes think about what happens if we are given that opportunity, all of us, not me, we. If we've been given the opportunity in November to say, right, in a state where Democrats are outnumbered by 1.4 million people, that means the Democratic Party would have led a new political coalition bigger than our party. If we have been given that platform in November, then what we do with it might become the greatest task of our generation. Because if we can deliver on that, we will have redefined American politics. I believe we've got a shot to change the world.
- [23:10]
Joy Reid
And David Jolly, my friend, who I have not seen in 147 years since we were both dirty Rock. Hey, David.
- [23:20]
David Jolly
Wonderful to be with you. Wonderful to be with you. Joy. I'm so excited about your show.
- [23:24]
Joy Reid
Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited about your run for governor. And this is a belated meeting because we've been trying to make this happen for a while. So I'm glad that we were able to make it happen. The great video. I appreciate it. And I think what I have missed most about talking with you is that you had such a clarion voice and were such a clarion voice about saving our democracy. And you've been busy running for governor. But I just have to get you, before you get into the gubernatorial race, give me your assessment of where we stand just as a country when it comes to the status of our democracy.
- [23:56]
David Jolly
I think we're a nation that's broken. We're more divided than ever. We're in crisis. We wake up every day and our leaders tell us we should hate each other and not believe our own eyes. We're watching outright corruption. We're watching attacks on law and order, the rule of law, and, you know, people who feel dispirited, desperate and unsettled. Are right to feel that way. What I have seen in the last year, though, Joy, is a resiliency emerge right coming out of the 24 election, particularly in Florida, right where those in the Pro Democracy Coalition were saying, boy, what do we ever do? All of a sudden, the resiliency started to emerge. If the election were tonight, Florida's voters would elect a Democratic governor. Not because we're registering more Democrats and not even because of this guy named David Jolly.
- [24:46]
Marjorie Taylor Greene
Sure.
- [24:46]
David Jolly
I hope I'm building a strong enough camp, Joy. I just think we're in a 1974 post Watergate cycle right now where enough voters are saying, burn the ships, we're going in a new direction because we're seeing elections in Florida swing by 15 and 20 points, but we're not registering more Democrats. And so my caution to my Democratic friends is we may not have won hearts and minds yet, but we're winning votes. Those votes are coming our way because enough voters, I believe, know we are a nation in crisis. We are a nation that is broken. And as my wife and I often say, it just feels as though there's enough people right now that want to believe in better. Believe in something. Better believe in a better moment than we're in right now.
- [25:26]
Joy Reid
Yeah, you know, I mean, there was a time, David, in both of our recent memory, when you would have been in a primary running against Byron Donald. Right. I mean, used to be a Republican until Donald Trump, you know, disgusted you out of the party. It made you so horrified that you walked out of it after it was. But it was a January 6th. What was it? What was the final thing that was the final straw for you?
- [25:46]
David Jolly
No, no, you know, look, I was a Bush 41 Republican, so I kind of fought the Tea Party and lost. I fought the Freedom Caucus and lost. I was one of those guys in Congress who kept the government open, didn't shut it down. My final fight was against Trumpism. Right. In December of 15 when he called for the Muslim ban. I went to the House floor and called on them to drop out of the race. I gave my Christian profession a faith to say why the affront to religious freedom was so dangerous. And then I left shortly, shortly after that. This was before kind of the Kinsinger Cheney wave, if you will. I spent five or six years as an independent, but look, I found my home. And this is the important thing. I'm a proud Florida Democrat, not a reluctant one. And as a former Republican, what I say to Democrats and the pundits is, look, the answer for Democrats is Not to change who they are. It's not to dilute who we are. I chose the Democratic Party because I believe in the values. And I say it all comes down to three values rooted in the traditions from FDR to JFK to Obama. First, that the economy should work for everyone. Second, government can do a little bit better to improve our lives. Housing, health care, education, the environment, safe communities. And third, we must be a nation where everyone's rights are protected and their dignity is celebrated, regardless of the color of your skin, where you were born, who you love, or who you worship. The reason I talk about those values, Joy, is within our party, if you are being progressive, progressive or outstanding, you can unite around those values. The economy should work, government can do a little bit better, and everyone's right should be protected. But if you're an independent Republican right now looking to say, look, I. I'm not going all into the Democratic Party, but let's build a coalition. Those values are what has created the strength of our nation over the last hundred years.
- [27:36]
Joy Reid
Well, I am an old former strategist. I used to work in politics, as you know, and Florida's a pretty conservative state, and there's a world in which the only kind of Democrat who could win statewide is a former Republican. Right. Because at least for a lot of people who just Democratic prize anathema to them, at least you're not like they know you. They know you from before. They know that your values have been consistent. So in a way, that's probably the best thing you could be right in that state. But talk about, what are the Florida values? Because I feel like Florida has a. It's challenging. Like, the image of Florida used to be, you know, beautiful beaches and fun in the sun. The vibe of Florida now is book bands, black history bans, you know, suing cruise ships because they tried to stop Covid from spreading on their ships. You know, Ron DeSantis has really changed the image of Florida to maybe the meanest state in the union.
- [28:35]
David Jolly
Yeah.
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Joy Reid
How do you change that? Because I don't feel like Florida, it now has the highest inflation in the country. People ran there during COVID only to find that you couldn't even go to a drag show because he's made it damn near illegal. Like, how do you change Florida's image back from being so mean?
- [28:50]
David Jolly
Yeah, so it's a great question, Joy. First, we do have to listen to voters. Number one concern. Over 70% of Florida voters voluntarily tell you the economy is what's breaking them right now. Homeowners can't stay in their homes because of an insurance crisis. Renters can't live in the communities in which they work. More people are going without health care than ever before. And in a state that's abandoned public education, families don't know where to educate their kids. And so a governor's race is like a big city mayor's race. It's about the basics. But you're right. We are a state that launched culture wars eight years ago. And, you know, there's something I want to do on election night. When we win this race and the cameras are rolling, I want to stand up and say to the world, say to the world, on behalf of the state that launched culture wars, we apologize. We apologize. We want you back. We want your kids to grow up here, your grandkids here. We want your snowbird friends to visit. We want the conventions back. We want everybody to feel welcome. And yes, that means undoing some of the attacks on people's rights, but also their dignity. What do I mean by that? Sure. Voting rights, reproductive freedom, basic civil liberties. But let teachers teach. Bring back the books. Look, you know, Florida. Every child in the state of Florida should know about the Rosewood massacre and the Groveland Four. They should know that Harry T. Moore was murdered on Christmas day for having the audacity to register voters of color. And as I say, it doesn't shame us to know our history. It strengthens us. And particularly this era we're living in. We'll never recognize the darker chapters of. Of our present if we don't understand the darker chapters of our past. So we got to lead with the economy, because that is where voters are begging us to fix some things. Look, Florida's doing great for a lot of people, but if you're not on the right side of Florida's economy, you're in trouble. You've lost upward mobility, you've lost hope. You're looking to leave the state, and you don't know what to do. There's a despair. And so I say, look, let's chase what's working. Honestly, what Governor Desantis has done, well, we'll keep it going, but we can't become the Hamptons. We have to ensure that the economy is resilient enough for everyone in the state. I think there's an opportunity here. You know, you mentioned it would take a certain type of former Republican to be a Democrat to run governor's races. I've noticed Joy are a little different. They're not so ideological. And I say that because I've offered some Solutions that are pretty bold. I think we should scale up the direct delivery of primary health care in all 67 counties. I think we need a 10 year renaissance in public education. We need a catastrophic fund for homeowners insurance. And the interesting thing is progressives look at me kind of sideways, let's be honest. I'm a 53 year old white former Republican with salt and pepper hair. I don't look like the parade leader of the progressive caucus. But Republicans are saying, you know what, Jolly just makes business sense because we're 49th in avoidable hospital costs. So if we deliver healthcare, we reduce costs and improve outcomes. We are now in the 40th percent or 40th among states for 8th grade test scores. If we improve our education, we create a more resilient economy. And a catastrophic fund for homeowners insurance just lets people stay in their home and it accepts that the private market can't cover hurricanes and natural disasters. That's a different coalition that we're bringing together.
- [32:03]
Joy Reid
Let me talk. You talk about coalitions and your video talked about it as well. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I mean, you're going to be running against more than likely, more likely than not, an African American opponent, Byron Donald. But I say African American in scare quotes because he has been known to say a few odd things. Let me play one of them. This is B2. Jason.
- [32:19]
Paul Butler
During Jim Crow, more black people were
- [32:24]
Joy Reid
not just conservative because black people always have been conservative minded, but more black people voted conservatively.
- [32:31]
Interviewer
And then he w Lyndon Johnson and then you go down that road and now we are where we are.
- [32:39]
Joy Reid
So Byron Donalds, who thinks black Americans were better off during Jim Crow has a lot of strange views. His wife is a Moms for Liberty activist and he's been hostile to almost everything that would actually improve black lives, whether it's universal healthcare or, you know, access to DEI and affirmative action. He's against all of it, even though he was once convicted of crimes that he wiped off the books due to programs he now poses. I could go on. But despite that, he is likely to improve Republicans score among African American voters, including African American men, because he's likely going to be facing you and your opponent, Gwen Graham, who is also white. Talk about how are you going to get black voters to vote in large enough numbers for you to be able to win?
- [33:28]
David Jolly
Yeah. So let's start with policies. Right. I think the disparate impact of centuries of discriminatory and racist policies still exist today. And Byron Donald's doesn't I recognize the economic disparity between white and black America is greater today than when Martin Luther King gave his I have a Dream speech. The disparities in health outcomes and the attacks on public education disparately impact black and brown communities. I know all of that. Byron Donald refuses to recognize that. I think that to use the Republican language of equality of opportunity, equality of opportunity is not a destination. It's a calling for policy changes. I think Byron Donalds is wrong on policy for all Floridians, but that includes black and brown communities as well. So then how do I also demonstrate that we're prepared to lead? Over 14 months ago, when I got into this race, I said, I want to build a campaign and commit to an administration that looks like the state. And so what have I done to rebuild our state university system? Coming off of Ron DeSantis who has said, by the way, we need to teach the good parts of slavery. I went to FAMU and I got a member of their foundation board and said, help me imagine the state university system that leads with FAMU being a tier one research university and a flagship university for our economic development plan. I went to two communities or two county commissioners of color, one in the Pensacola area, one in St. Pete. I said, help me lead the economic development conversation with your district out front, not relying on trickle down economics. When the Clay decision was handed down by the Supreme Court, I went to Reverend Sharpton and I said, help me imagine what it would look like for Florida to lead a new voting rights era from the South. And. And it led me to propose an office of Civil Rights. I have made commitments throughout the state and our transition chair, actually a guy by the name of Sean Pittman, was Andrew Gillum's campaign chair. And so I have tried to demonstrate throughout the state that I want an inclusive team, not simply for reasons of demonstrating diversity, but because it improves policy outcomes, it improves the strength of our state. When we do that, look, we all come from different lived experiences. And I say the current governor is not the smartest person in the state. We all know that. But I say your next governor is not going to be either. The difference is he fails to realize that, and I do. My leadership style of joy is to build a team shoulder to shoulder with people across the state. Not lead out front, but lead together. I think we've been able to demonstrate that. And honestly, with Gwen as my running mate, what I wanted was somebody capable of governing. On day one, I wanted a governing partner, not just a lieutenant governor that we put in a Box and we send to certain communities. I wanted somebody ready to govern the state of Florida immediately, and I'm thrilled that Gwen's a part of our ticket.
- [36:18]
Joy Reid
Let's very quickly, I have a couple more minutes left with you. But, you know, Florida has got now lots of vulnerable communities very quickly go through how you would change the way they're treated currently. And that would be the LGBTQ community who's really been hyper targeted by the current governor and immigrants, because Florida is open to mass deportation. It's open for business, even though there's so many Venezuelan Americans, Haitian immigrants, etc. And people from Central and South America.
- [36:47]
David Jolly
So, look, I'm thrilled to have the endorsement of most, if not all, of the leading LGBTQ groups in Florida. It is a relationship that I consider that alliance to be a very special one. And listen, I think first of all, we have to recognize every organization, every group, every caucus. They all want an economy that's working. Right. Are we focused on housing, health care, and education? People have mobility, their kids can go to school and so forth. But yes, in the state that launched culture wars, returning to a place where people's fundamental rights are protected and their dignity is celebrated. Right. That shows up in a lot of places, sure. Education, a lot of places, the ability of teachers to teach, bring back the book books. But local communities to celebrate their own, whether it's a mural, a Black Lives Matter mural, or an LGBTQ rainbow crosswalk. But also recognizing that business thrives when we're an inclusive economy as well when it comes to the immigrant community, again, certainly not monolithic, but let's lead with the economy, housing, healthcare, and education. We can't just jump to straight to immigration and skip past the basics. But where we are seeing huge swings, Joy New Jersey and Virginia, the precincts that swung the most were Hispanic precincts in their governor's races by over 30 points. Because everybody understands cruelty and broken promises. Two or four years ago, we were using terms like racism, anti immigrant, xenophobia, stuff that I think is defensible. But right now, everybody understands cruelty. If you take a baby from a mom, you pick up a dad who's shown up on the job site for 12 years without so much as a speeding ticket and send them to Alligator Alcatraz and just appear they understand broken promises. I didn't think he meant my tps. And so in that environment, look, I still believe we need a pathway to legal status. I'm just where Marco Rubio was and Jeb Bush was and George Bush were. And I think we should recognize and celebrate the economic and cultural contributions of our immigrant community. We've got the right campaign and platform to bring this all back together.
- [38:47]
Joy Reid
All right, very quick, rapid fire round. Should Florida become a base of AI data centers? Yes or no?
- [38:55]
David Jolly
We're not ready for it. We need environmental protections, labor protections, economic protections. We're not ready for it. And frankly, the Donald Trump plan is not to prevent the plunder, but just charge big tech to plunder. I say let's not let them plunder.
- [39:11]
Joy Reid
Should Florida students get the full slate of vaccines before going to school?
- [39:18]
David Jolly
If that's what our public health advisors advise, yes, I believe they should. But I'm going to follow the science. I'm going to fire the surgeon General as soon as I get to office and appoint somebody who understands science and data and public health. And I'm going to take their recommendations.
- [39:32]
Joy Reid
Would Disney be welcome to do business in Florida under a Governor David Jolly? Does the mouse get to stay?
- [39:39]
David Jolly
The mouse gets to stay and celebrate communities all around our state. It is so good when we do that.
- [39:47]
Joy Reid
I do have to ask you, if you became governor, Donald Trump would be your most famous constituent. But a lot of MAGA now live in Florida, including, by the way, the senator from Alabama, Tommy Tuberville, who does
- [39:57]
David Jolly
not live in Alabama.
- [39:58]
Joy Reid
He lives in Florida. Why do you suppose Florida is so attractive to the MAGA types? What is it about Florida? Is it just low taxes?
- [40:06]
David Jolly
Look, it's a convergence of the economy and ideology. We have no income tax and we're not going to have one. It's great. We're about to possibly eliminate property taxes, which is going to create an economic crisis for us if we then are a state with no revenue. But look, we're a very low tax state, low regulations. But I do think we've abandoned environmental investments and we've abandoned workforce protections and we need to be a little smarter with that. But sure, there's the intersection culturally with some of the MAGA hard right cultural issues. That's one of the things we're going to put, you know, change the conversation on. And I come at it from almost a libertarian right side of the spectrum. Yes, A person of faith who believes the teachings of the God I worship say everybody should be welcome and celebrated. And I don't shy away from using my faith in defense of ending the culture wars and lifting up every community in our state.
- [41:00]
Joy Reid
Thank you. I wish I had more time because, yeah, definitely you mentioned the environment. Glad you mentioned that. And of course, indigenous tribes. And Florida, Florida, there's lots to talk about. The, the August 18th is the actual primary. So there's still time for you to come back, David, and we can have more conversation. But good luck. People are asking about apac, but I don't think APAC plays in governor's races. Do you take APAC money?
- [41:21]
David Jolly
They don't, and I have not.
- [41:23]
Joy Reid
All right. Excellent. David Jolly, thank you. Thank you very much. Best of luck. We'll have you back on before the primary date. And good luck to you. Thank you, friend.
- [41:29]
David Jolly
Thank you, Joy. Appreciate it.
- [41:31]
Joy Reid
Thank you very much. All right, so there we go. David Jolly running for governor of Florida. It would make Florida nice again. That should be his slogan. Make Florida nice again. Let's do a quick ad break. The Joy Read show is brought to you by our friends at Irestore Look. Doing this business, you can see I did light makeup Fridays because, you know, you really have to give your skin a break. If you're doing this business and you're doing TV and your face is like in the place all the time, you tend to do a lot to kind of brutalize your skin. And Irestore is one of the great ways to try to restore the health and radiance of your skin. And for me, it's the aluminum face mask, which is a fantastic and fantastic product that does something called light therapy. Now, red light therapy. Now a friend of mine years and years ago was like, you got to try red light therapy. It's so good for your skin. And these kind of LED devices that can actually help to improve the quality of your skin and be a part of your skin care routine. Well, I restore has made me absolutely a believer. If you're looking for ways to find simple, effective ways to support your skin, but also your hair health at home, Irestore offers advanced devices that are designed to seamlessly fit into your routine. So the Irestore Elite is their most advanced laser hair growth system. If you're looking for hair growth support, it uses 300 lasers and 200 LED lights to help regrow thicker, healthier hair in as little as three months. Effortless. Just wear it while you're working or reading or unwinding at night. And the aforementioned aluminum face mask is a lightweight cordless. It's packed with two times more LEDs than other top masks. It targets those fine lines, the breakouts, the dullness with triple wavelength light therapy, just 10 minutes, 10 minutes a few times a week for brighter, smoother, healthier looking skin. Here's the best part. You can bundle the Eye Restore Elite and the Illumina face mask together, making it the perfect way to upgrade your routine. Whether you're just refreshing your regimen or finally giving your hair and your skin the attention that they deserve, it's a fantastic value for you. So. And it's also dermatologist tested, which is really, really, really important. Irestore is now offering some huge discounts on their red light therapy devices. Right now you can save on customer favorites like the Irestore elite helmet and the Illumina face mask. Just head to irestore.com and use the code joy. That is joy. Joy@irestore.com Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Give your hair and your skin the upgrade that they deserve so you can feel confident, fabulous and refreshed. Okay? So as you all know, I'm sure black women have really taken the brunt of the economic losses that this regime has decided to unleash upon the economy. And a new report lays out those losses in detail. And joining me now to discuss the report are Melanie Campbell, president and CEO of the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation and convener of the black Women's roundtable, along with Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver, political scientist, strategist, and the founding principle of Nouveau Strategy. Thank you both for being here. Let's talk about this report. Melanie, what does this report find?
- [44:31]
Melanie Campbell
Well, first of all, it is so much of a joy to be with you, Joy.
- [44:36]
Joy Reid
Thank you. Thank you very much.
- [44:38]
Melanie Campbell
And our sister, Dr. Avis, we're not gonna, we're not gonna blame it for that pink and green. But, you know, it's all good.
- [44:44]
Joy Reid
It's D9 all the time.
- [44:46]
Melanie Campbell
Always sisters, always. Right. Well, first of all, Joy, you know, you, you have been there with us in putting this information out. This is our 10th year, believe it or not. We skipped last year. It was too much going on to even try to grasp it. But this year we knew it was time. And so this is the first in a series of dropping the data, if you will. This is, this particular data is around the economic security. But I do want to put up, let you know there's some political information we're going to talk about next month. So I'm going to let you know that right off. But this was an opportunity to really, a year and a half in, to really see what's happening with black women economically. Right. And we know all the things we've heard about with the rollback of dei, loss of federal jobs, all the things cost of living. And so this component of the Research. Oh, by the way, we have a black woman poster who did this research. So, so we all excited about that as well. Dr. Katrina Gamble. So what we were able to things that, you know, but now we know what black women are telling us. The impact of these cuts have been. Right. So with black women's equal payday, one of the things we looked at was about pay inequity. And truly it showed that pay inequity, as we say in the report, has a face at a cost. And nearly half of black women, 47% and 53% of those college graduates say they have been paid less than a coworker for the same job. We heard that, but now we know that the strain is real. The cost of living is real. No matter, as we've seen in the past, education doesn't matter. The DEI cuts, almost half of the black women that responded have either themselves or know somebody who's been impacted by the rollback. So the, the, the deep cuts in the federal job force, the unemployment rates are going up. But the other part that was really, really telling was the fact that black women have to borrow more money from family. We have to find ways to make ends meet, and the check is not meeting. Right.
- [46:58]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
So.
- [46:58]
Melanie Campbell
So we know if you want to really destroy black America economically, destroy Black women, we're 70% heads of household. There's other things. But that was kind of the overall look at from an economic standpoint. I know AIs, who's our researcher extraordinaire, can break it down even further. Anything with, with, with this was with you and the three of us talking about it.
- [47:22]
Joy Reid
So, yeah, amen. Very important to get the data out. So let's just put up a couple of these slides. So this first one, as Melanie was just saying, Dr. Avis, pay equity has a face and a cost. The economic strain. This. Nearly half of black women, 47% and 53% of college graduates say they've been paid less than a co worker for the same job. Talk about this data.
- [47:45]
Interviewer/Guest
Absolutely. So, you know, as was mentioned, this was released on black women's equal payday. And the reality is that for black women, pay inequity isn't just a statistic. Right, Right. It's a lived reality. We saw in this poll that almost 90%, 88% of black women surveyed said that they were concerned about being paid less than their white or white male or white female counterpart. And over half of black women who had college degrees reported that they actually had the experience of being paid less than a co worker who were in the same job. This was really shocking in the sense that, as we know, black women have so much overindexed in terms of higher education. And for so long, we've had to, for many years, the statistic was that you needed to be someone who held a PhD to earn on par with the white male with the ged. And now we're seeing under this reality, with civil rights infrastructure gutted, with dei, gutted with the federal workforce force really turn upturned someplace where black women are overrepresented, that a lot of black women who have played by the rules, done all that they were told that they needed to do to get ahead under this economy, they're still falling behind.
- [49:01]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And this, if you can go to the next slide here. And it talk, this talks about how concerned people are not nearly 9 in 10 black women, 88% are concerned about being paid. As you just said, Dr. Avis, the white men and women for the same work, 71% seem very concerned. Among Gen Z, 71%. Among millennials, 74%. Even among Gen X, 69%. So this is spanning every single generation.
- [49:29]
Interviewer/Guest
It's spanning all the generations. It's spanning women who are college educated, expanding women who are non college educated. It is across the board. And so what we're seeing here is the impact of really of a problem that we faced for many, many years is quite frankly getting worse. We look at these statistics every year in terms of the wage gap, and actually we've seen that that gap has actually grown this year as compared to last year. So though this is a problem that we're saying has been with us forever, we're not closing the gap. The gap is widening.
- [50:02]
Joy Reid
And you know, let's go back, Melanie, to you and to this. What has happened to me. This is the next slide. Jason, if you could. And this talks about whether this has happened to the actual people who responded to the survey, 47% in total say yes, this has actually happened to me. 40% of Gen Z, 52% of millennials, 48% in Gen X, 45% in the boomer generation, even 15% in the silence generation. And you know, as mentioned, whether it's college or non college, it doesn't really even matter. Did you all go into like what industries this is happening in, or is it just really across the board?
- [50:43]
Melanie Campbell
I don't, Avis can correct me, I don't think we went necessarily in industries per se, but understanding that because the DEI cuts, for instance, are public and private right sector jobs, not just the federal government. And even prior to this regime that's in office, this was happening because of the Supreme Court decision that was about education. And corporations used it as an excuse. Right. So from that vantage point, you know, we've been all saying black women are under attack. We've been saying that this is showing that this is what attack really means. Right. And in this regard, economically, we are seeing real, real implications and real results from it. But there's still hope in this poll as well that with all that we're going through, and especially younger generations still feel good about things. And so that's. And we're not. That said, don't let the devil steal our joy, right? So in that reality, in spite of all, we're not going to let this, this, this time that we're going through still our joy and belief and hope and that there is a better. Because the other part of this is that. And I know I want to jump ahead, but when you think about the overall priorities for black women, voting rights is now in the top, within the top 89 plus percent. We know in past years, racism and discrimination has been there, but it's at the top of the list, right? Maternal health. And we know what's happened with the Department of Health and Human Services and the cuts that relate to maternal health. That is a concern for black women dying, childbirth, rollback and Roe v. Wade, all the things reproductive justice, all those things. This poll is really, really showing just how devastating it is. But at the same time, we have hope and we know we have to fight as well. And we'll, like I said, later in next month, we'll give even more detail what that means politically.
- [52:57]
Joy Reid
And, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump ahead anyway, though. I'm gonna jump in anyway, Dr. Avis, because that is, I think the big question is, you know, this polling really does show you this sort of stark reality of what people are facing in the workplace. And I think just anecdotally, we know that black women are saying, oh, wow, you know, not getting promotions. We see so many being pushed out of positions and jobs. There's another one just got let go from qvc. A lot of black women being pushed out of industries. So what are, what are, what are the stats and what your anecdotal sort of evidence say that black women are prepared to do about it?
- [53:29]
Interviewer/Guest
Well, you know, a couple of different things, I'll say for the one, you know, we need to realize that this DEI impacts black women not only in the federal place in corporate America, but also in business. So in every way in which we have embedded ourselves into this economy in order to get ahead, in order to do everything that we need to do to make a way for ourselves and our families, we have been hit hard by this. We did have a different question on here that looked at, you know, in what ways have you experienced it? Some. A complete division was lost. Some mentioned that they were doged. Some mentioned that they just. That specific job itself was eliminated. So in various different ways, they have been impacted by DEI cuts and. Or the economy writ large. And I just want to also mention that it has been really devastating for people to deal with this economically. We found that almost three out of four black women were worried about being able to cover their everyday costs like utilities, gas, food, rent. 44% of them said that they didn't have enough to be able to pay for groceries. They had to cut back on the groceries or buy cheaper food. Food. Overall, almost one in four specifically said that they either ate less or not at all so that other people in their family could eat. I just want people to understand how dire this is. But yet, as Melanie mentioned, they have hope. Yet, as Melanie mentioned, they're not letting it defeat them mentally in terms of their spirituality and their belief in terms of what the future can provide for them and their ability to create change. I cannot wait until we share the politics section of this with you, because I just want you to be encouraged. Even though everything we're hearing here tonight may not be encouraging, I want you to know that black women are resilient. We're powerful, and we're ready to fight back.
- [55:15]
Joy Reid
Indeed. Yeah, those cuts are by design. I will note that Elon Musk did an interview, very sort of. Sort of hostile interview, in which he admitted that he might have gone too far with Doe, just like you think. But it was a very deliberate targeting of very specific people, and black women were at the top of the list to run them out of the federal government. And that is by design. Melanie Campbell, Dr. Avis Jones, Deweaver. Thank you very much. Looking forward to part two of this survey. Thank you for bringing that to us.
- [55:41]
Melanie Campbell
Thank you, Joy. Appreciate it.
- [55:42]
Joy Reid
Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. No, it was. It was deliberate. Now, let's just be very clear. They made it clear because I think that the regime understood who was willing to follow orders and who was not and who was willing to do the administrative work of dismantling the state. And they statistically noted that, you know, demographically, women, period, were less likely lgbtq, period, were less likely. And black people, period, and black women probably the least of all. And so they were like, we gotta get rid of them. Because the only chance they had, demographically of feeling like they could run the country the way they want to run it is to only have the people who statistically vote the most maga, and that would be white Christian men. And then they started weeding them out by ideology. Are you right wing enough? Do you profess that the election was stolen? Are you willing to essentially declare Donald Trump the Lord and king and master of your life instead of Jesus? They started to weed them out, but only when they got down to just white men and just know that this was always about that, right? They needed to be able to commit, in some cases, crimes, violate the Constitution, violate all of the norms of the United States, and just statistically, no sweat, no shade. But if you just throw a rock at, you know, 10 white people, six of them will be Republicans. If you throw a rock at 10 white men, like eight of them are Republicans. It's just. It's just a statistical fact that if you really want to rinse the government out of liberals, you first have to get rid of the minorities. You maybe could keep one or two Latin men around, but you pretty much have to get rid of most of the women, most, and most of the minorities. That's how you, like, statistically put yourself in a position to. To succeed at making the country more maga, making the country more right wing. You try to get it down to just white men, and then statistically, 6 in 10 are going to be with you.
- [57:25]
Paul Butler
How's that working out, Jason?
- [57:27]
Joy Reid
What do you say?
- [57:28]
Warren Hudson
How's that working?
- [57:29]
Joy Reid
It's not working out very well at all. It's not working out because the country is being run into the ground. Because here's the thing that's so ironic about what this regime decided to do. They decided that in order to rule the country, they wanted to rule it. They had to get rid of all the black people, the women, the gay people, and as many brown people, you know, deport as many brown people as they could, snatch brown people off the street, throw them out, put them in vans, put them in concentration camps, and they're like, when we just get down to the Anglo men, everything will be fine. But you know what they've been doing with white men over the last two generations? Telling them, don't go to college. College is a waste of time. Telling them, you don't have to be excellent, you don't have to strive Your only problem is that these brown people or black people are stealing your shot. If you get the chance, you can do it because you're naturally superior. You just tell people you're superior. You don't have to get educated. You're superior. You don't have to learn you're superior. You don't have to get more training. You're superior. You don't even have to try. We just have to eliminate your competition and you'll be fine. You know, you've been spending a decade insisting and telling us Elon Musk is a genius. When you hear him talk, you realize he's actually an idiot. But you keep telling him, yeah, but he invented Tesla. When he didn't, he just bought it. Telling people, rich people are brilliant because they're rich. Donald Trump is, you know, the natural president and perfect and smart because he's wealthy. And that because someone is rich, it means they're smart. It doesn't. And last time I checked, I don't think Peter Thiel is a programmer, but people think he's some genius programmer because he's rich and he buys the work of actual programmers. Did you all know the two men who actually invented Tesla is. Two other white dudes invented Tesla. They're geniuses. Elon just bought it, and now people think, oh, he's a genius. No, he's not. They're actually inventing a competitor to the Tesla truck, which is, I guarantee you, going to be superior to the Tesla truck. The Tesla truck is, from what I understand, the first truck Elon Musk actually designed. And it looks like shit. And it's very bad. It's broken. It's easy to rip it apart. Teslas are terrible. Since he's taken over, it was a great company when it was owned by the other guys, the guys who actually invented Teslas. But you keep telling this group of demographics, you keep telling these people that you're naturally superior and that you're only. The only impediment to your great success is that there are black people and brown people stealing your shot. Then when they get the chance to perform, they can't perform because they're not prepared. Whereas black people are having to jump 10 times as high, run 10 times as fast, jump through hoops, flip, do a. Do a role, do all this stuff and have to work really hard to get anything, and then all of a sudden, they're really good at shit. You tell them your only way out is basketball, and then you're shocked that they're better at basketball. You say, Your only way out is football. And then you're shocked that they're better at football. You tell people in Africa, African men, you know your only way out is soccer. And then you wonder why they're phenoms and they're the best person on the French team. You give people the keys, you say this is your key to success. But then you tell your majority you don't have to do shit. Just get the women and the black and the brown people out of the way. You'll be fine. And they then you're shocked when they're freaking incompetent anyway, let's start. Or two. And they are. They don't know what they're doing. Welcome to hour two of the Joy Reid show. Big up to everybody that's in the chats. If you guys have not hit like and subscribe yet, feel free avail yourself of the opportunity to hit like and subscribe. Also hit share. When you hit share, you do the little thingy where you do all. So you'll always know when we're lives. You can join that. Don't forget at the end of the show we're going to do an afterparty where we're going to do a members only live and that'll be live on Substack as well as on YouTube. I think it might be on Twitch too. You're gonna have to tell me in the chat in the slack if I if we're also on Twitch live. Love you right back. Renee in Substack. I appreciate that, Renee, giving me some love in the substack world. Appreciate all the love. It is the mediocrity. Jennifer in YouTube. So thank you to all that are commenting. Please feel free to throw those comments in. We love hearing from you guys. We've also got a comment here from Kilo Loy swim team that Florida probably has unreleased info on Epstein too. Probably if he becomes governor he might be able to release some Epstein information because remember, that is where he did his first crime and got convicted the first time and got a sweetheart deal from the federal government. So that's very interesting. Let's thank one of our sponsors in this hour. The Joy Reach show is brought to you in this hour by Blissey. Now listen, if you have trouble sleeping, it might be because there's too much light shining in your eyes. That's my problem. I need total dark. I love the total darkness. And if you're going to put something over your face that's going to touch your skin, you should really be choicey about what that is and having something that is made from like pure, beautiful silk that is not going to cause you to break out, that's going to actually care for your skin. Good thing. 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Fabulous gift as well. So if you want to get fabulous sleep masks, if you want to get, you know, like cute little scrunchies that are soft or you want to get those gorgeous silk pillowcases, go on to blissey.com and because you are a the joy retail listener, Blissey is offering 60 nights risk free for their products, plus an additional 30% when you shop@blissey.com joypod that's B L I S S Y.com joypod. Use the code joypod to get an additional 30% off your hair and skin.
- [63:16]
Rashad Robinson
Will.
- [63:16]
Joy Reid
Thank you. Okay, so in this hour, we're gonna, we're gonna do another deep dive into this Nolan Wells case. I feel like there are constant updates. Folks are asking if Jackie will be in the after party. Oh, we should invite her. We should invite Jackie to the after party. That would be fun, right? We'll find out what Jackie's doing. I don't know if she's hanging out with her with her sister Holly, but if she's not busy, feel free. Jackie. Send her the link. Yeah. If she wants to come and hang out with us. She was on earlier, actually. I seen her. Jackie?
- [63:47]
Melanie Campbell
Yeah.
- [63:47]
Joy Reid
Oh, you just hear in the Jackie, if you're here, reach out and let us know because we'd love to have you in the afterparty. I think that'll be a lot of fun. Okay, let somebody get in touch with Jackie. When you get in touch with Jackie and find out if she's available, send her the link and we'll see if she will join us in the after party. Always fun. And then she can have a mocktail too. She drinks non alcoholic mocktails so we can, we can toast across the great divide. But in this hour, we want to get back into this Nolan Wells case because I feel like there have just been repeated developments. Repeated, repeated, repeated developments. The new development is that some of the young white men that were friends of Nolan Wells, they're not his only group of friends, but they are fellow friends. And one of them sat down with probably the worst person on the Internet. You know, there are maybe worse people. There are a couple of people similar to him that are even worse. He's an anti black black podcaster named Officer Tatum. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Officer Tatum, but his main shtick is to go on Fox and to go on his podcast, very popular podcast, to tell people to tell anti black white conservatives that they are right to dislike black people because black people actually are terrible. He goes on. There are a couple other ones who do that as well. But he is an awful. He is basically an anti black activist, but he's also black. So he went out, you can see him there. He flew himself down to Mississippi and he interviewed, you could say interview. He's not a journalist. So the interview was more of a booster. It was more of a I'm your friend, I'm on your side, let me go ahead and interview you just to basically show my support. And he did that. He flew down and he interviewed Warren Hudson. Now Warren Hudson, we can show the next one. Warren Hudson is indeed a good friend or was a good friend of the late Nolan Wells. They've known each other since grade school through high school. He is one of the people that's in that now famous picture of Nolan with three white friends. Now, Nolan has lots of other friends of other races. He's got black friends and he's got white friends. He's got lots of friends, as a lot of young people do. But Officer Tatum decided to go out on a limb and declare this young man to be Nolan Wells best friend. And you'll see when I start playing some of the clips as to why he did that. But he declared this young man to be his very best friend and he went down to Mississippi to essentially prove that everyone is wrong about the case. Now there's some holes in the way that he did it. And some interesting sort of caveats that I have to give to the interview. But that was the purpose of his trip to Mississippi. And what if I just play one more? Waiting for our guests to come in. I can, I can maybe play, play one of these things. One of the things that he got this young man to talk about, which, which I thought was actually a little bit strange. I actually want to wait because I really do want to hear. I want to play it with the people. So before I, I'm going to set it up for you. So he goes down, he does an interview sitting, sort of a sit down interview. He also travels out to the site where Nolan Wells and his friends were hanging out and where the last place that any of them saw him. He goes through the timeline. At one point he sets up and in his fourth installment of this interview, he's going to get an answer to the question of whether anybody deleted anything from Nolan Wells phone. He put that in a promo that has not dropped yet. So we haven't heard that yet. But he does apparently ask him about that. He asks about the relationship with the family. He asks a lot of questions. Not in a journalistic way, again, more in a very supportive, supportive way. He's sort of leading the witness, like trying to help this young man. And let me just explain who this young man is. In addition to being a friend of Nolan Wells, he's the son of the judge, of the judge who put out that Facebook post. Remember the Facebook post, that judge, that local judge, this is her son. And people were calling her the stepmom, but it appears she's the moment. And her husband is the stepfather of Warren Hudson. So this is the judge's son who gives this interview. Now a bunch of these kids have given interviews. I would like to interview Warren Hudson myself. But let me just go ahead and bring Paul, Paul Butler in. We're waiting for both our guests. I want to start with Paul. Hey, Paul, former prosecutor, fabulous legal analyst, our good friend, our dear friend, Paul Butler. So I want to play this for you, Paul, and I want you to see if I'm paranoid or if when you hear the opening of this interview, you hear it the way I hear it. So Jason, this is Warren Hudson and the question he's asked is the question right at the top of the interview with one of the worst people in the world, Officer Tatum, who basically is just an apologist for right wing, right wing anti blackness. But anyway, he starts off by asking him this question. Listen to the answer.
- [68:52]
Interviewer
The relationship like with Nolan, who was he to you?
- [68:56]
Warren Hudson
Nolan. I could describe Nolan in a million ways. I mean, Nolan was not just a best friend of me, but he was a brother. I grew up through elementary, middle school, high school, and even our freshman year of college. You know, we talked on the phone all the time. We were really close friends. And I mean, Nolan was like a brother to me. And he. Nolan lit up every room he walked in. He always had a smile on his face. He always had something good to say. I've never seen no one get in an argument with somebody and say bad things about someone. You know, there's a lot of people that talk crap nowadays and Nolan was never that person. Sweetest soul ever. And I mean, I had a great relationship with Nolan. I've never gotten an argument with Nolan. We were super close. And I've never said or will ever have anything bad to say about Nolan Wells.
- [69:47]
Joy Reid
Joining me now also is Warren Ballantyne, radio host, motivational speaker, author, and legal expert. He's the host of Common ground on Sirius XM channel one four one Monday through Friday, 1pm Eastern Standard Time. Thank you for joining us as well, Warren. But I want to go back to Paul. I counted, you see, I put on screen how many times he, without being prompted, said he's never gotten fights with Nolan. He's never heard Nolan getting in fights with anyone. But more importantly, he's never gotten in a fight with Nolan. Did you find that odd?
- [70:17]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
It's a little extra. It could be that he's saying that because it's true and they've had this long standing relationship with absolutely no conflict. That's a possibility.
- [70:29]
Chris Jones
Right.
- [70:30]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
But you know, a question is, why is he talking to people other than the investigators about this? And especially why is he talking to this particular interviewer? And the suggestion from some is that he's laying the groundwork for a defense now, not because he's been charged with any crime or is even a suspect in any crime, but it does seem to be a kind of proactive. There's nothing to see here. Don't look at me. Don't ask me any questions about this. That suggests that I know more than I'm admitting.
- [71:13]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And Warren, welcome to the show. And I was just on your show. Thank you for having me on your Sirius XM show. But you've been in the radio game a really long time, as have I. I don't know how familiar you are with Officer Tatum, but going doing the interview with him is a choice, right? It is a very interesting choice. That suggests a political point of view, perhaps, maybe, but what do you think of Officer Tatum being the person to do this? I'll say interview. It was more of a promo thing, but interview.
- [71:44]
Paul Butler
Well, Joy, thank you for having me on today. And let me say this. I watched this whole video and even if it wasn't Officer Tatum, any lawyer that may have to end up representing this young man would be losing their mind after this so called interview. Because honestly, after watching the video, on the surface it would seem like, oh, they had this great relationship, they had this loving relationship, they were friends and he was concerned. But this interview actually to me is making me believe that he did something to Nolan more than ever now. And the reason why is because if you listen to the interview, he says specifically, I didn't see Nolan after 3 o'. Clock. The last time I laid eyes on him was at 3 o', clock, but they left at 4:30. Then he says, well, we were telling him to get on the boat. And all of us up there told. We all were witnesses to my friend saying get on the boat at 4:30. That tells me that you actually did see Nolan after 3:00'.
- [72:41]
Melanie Campbell
Clock.
- [72:41]
Paul Butler
And so with that being said and the fact that he was calling the coast, he wanted to call the Coast Guard, which I found very strange, that he would want to call the Coast Guard right away if he didn't think something was wrong. I thought that was very incriminating.
- [72:56]
Joy Reid
Joy, I want to go through these because I watched all three parts. I watched it so well, Warren and I watched it so you don't have to, you guys didn't have to. It was interesting watching, interesting viewing. But yeah, there were parts of it that I thought were sort of answering questions that weren't answered and saying things that I found, you know, not maybe necessarily suspicious because again, we don't know that anything happened to Nolan other than that he drowned and that it was completely. No one was involved in that. We know nothing. We are not accusing anyone of anything because we don't have enough information to do that. But the interview to me wasn't helpful, Paul, for I think some of the reasons that Warren said as well. But I want to play the second part. This is going to go through what Warren has kind of laid out. But this is where Nolan is asked, I mean, Warren is asked what was his relationship with the family with, with the Wansleys.
- [73:47]
David Jolly
Take a look.
- [73:48]
Interviewer
Yeah, and you guys, you said you, you kind of grew up together. Did you know his mom or did you. How was that? Because I saw in the media, where it appears that she may have said, at least I saw in part that she said, as if she didn't know any of you guys, right?
- [74:05]
Warren Hudson
Well, no one. A lot of the times was at like my house and at my buddy's house. We never went to Nolan's house and hung out. I mean, and my friend group's very, very tight knit. I mean, we, we hang out every day when we're back home from school. In high school, we hung out most weekdays and every day on the weekend. And I mean, we were never at Nolan's house, which, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. But I met his father and I mean, in eighth grade, Nolan. That's when Nolan and I like got really close. It was Covid year and, and we were in class all year long together, me and a couple of my buddies, and Nolan and I just got super tight. Cause we'd go to Wallflass once a week together, eat, and I mean, we were just super, super close. But his dad would swing by Wallflas, you know, and like, you know, hang out, hang out around us, but never, you know, I was never around Nolan's parents.
- [75:03]
Joy Reid
His accent got me. I don't know what Wallflas is, but, you know, I reached out Paul, the spokesperson for, for the family, who told me that Warren was never at least per the family, the Wandsleys, or Nolan Wells's parents, that Warren was never at their home that way, that they only learned. That the parents only learned of their friendship to the mid to end time of high school. He said they were friends since elementary school. The family, through the spokesman, said that they may have met him in passing but don't recall meeting him. And that in the opinion of the parents, they would not classify him as Nolan's best friend per the family. Nolan's best friends were Jayvon and Jalen, the two brothers, one of whom did an interview with tmz. The family classifies those two as the best friend and say that they were at the home regularly. Now look, our kids have grown up, you know, in a very multiracial community. You have friends that you really know the parents well. You all go to the same birthday parties. You know, you're there at your house, you're at their house. So I guess there are different levels of friend. But it's interesting, Paul, that Warren classed himself as Nolan as the best friend. He said I'm the best friend. The parents say no, I mean, when
- [76:16]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
you listen to Warren, you get the impression that they were boys. They were running buddies. They hung out all the time. And so when you hear his parents say, we don't know who this guy is, both things, I guess they could be true. But these parents seem like they are pretty much on top of things. They can certainly name other young men who hung out with their son. So, again, you know, people may have different ideas about what. How close they are to each other, but when there's disposal discrepancies like this between what one. And we have to use the word witness to talk about Warren, when there are discrepancies between what one witness says about his relationship with a victim and what other people who know the victim say, that's something that investigators will appropriately have a lot of questions about.
- [77:18]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And, Jason, I'm sorry to go out of order just for a moment, I wonder if you could bring up D9. Just let me know when you have D9. Because, Warren, this is where it became a little interesting, because he says he's the best friend. He says he didn't really know the parents, and then he kind of does corroborate that he didn't really know the parents that well and that Jalen did in this statement. Jason, if you have D9.
- [77:42]
Interviewer
So you guys are now at swimming and having a good time at your. At a. A lady friend's house, right?
- [77:51]
Warren Hudson
I never got to the pool. I talked to her dad for a while, and, I mean, all my friends were downstairs. I went upstairs, talked to her dad. We're talking about boats and stuff. And, you know, I wasn't. I mean, I've been with my friends all day. I was just talking to everybody, but.
- [78:04]
Interviewer
So you talked to the young lady's dad, and then. Then how long was it before you realize or you guys realized that where's Nolan at?
- [78:13]
Warren Hudson
I mean, we're. I went back downstairs, and almost my friends were just hanging out, and I. I. My buddy Wyatt had addressed, you know. You know, talking about Nolan. And I was like, well, where is Nolan? Have y' all heard from him? And he was like, no, we haven't. And I was like, okay. Well, you know, it's a little concerning. Like, I mean, I'm not. I'm not freaking out or anything, but, like, I'm trying to find out where no one is. So I texted Javon, and I was like, hey, in a. Also a couple other buddies that I had at the island. I was like, hey, did he. Have y' all seen no one? Did he riding with y'?
- [78:46]
Interviewer
All?
- [78:46]
Warren Hudson
And all the boys were like, no. Well, I texted Javon. And I was like, hey, can you send me Ms. Christine's number? Because I haven't heard from Nolan, and if she hasn't heard from Nolan, then I'm calling the Coast Guard. And so eventually Javon sends me her number.
- [79:04]
Interviewer
Who is her?
- [79:05]
Warren Hudson
Ms. Christine. Ms. Christine is Nolan's mom. Nolan's mom, yeah. And I walked down to the dock because, I mean, there was a lot of people at Ava's. Not a lot, but, you know, There was probably 15 of our friends there. And I was just like, walk down to the dock with a couple of my buddies. And I got on the phone, I called Ms. Christine, called her the first time, she didn't answer. I called her a second time and I got on the phone with her and she, I asked her if she had heard from Noah and she said no. And I said, all right, well, don't freak out. I'm going to call the Coast Guard. And this was at about 11 o'. Clock.
- [79:41]
Joy Reid
The thing that's weird about that, Warren, is that I'm not sure how Christine Wanzi would have heard from Nolan when they knew he didn't have his phone.
- [79:51]
Chris Jones
Absolutely.
- [79:51]
Joy Reid
He wouldn't have had a way to contact his mom.
- [79:55]
Paul Butler
Absolutely. And see, that's the part right there. And this is why I'm saying that this interview, actually, I'm not saying that the young man is guilty of anything because we don't have any proof of anything, but this interview, it opens up a Pandora's box of questions that wasn't there at first. He never should have given this interview, to be honest with you. And furthermore, let me say this as a parent and everybody who's a parent who's really involved in their children's lives, we all have trackers on our kids, on their phone, on it. We know where our kids are going, so we know who they're hanging out with. If this mom is saying that, hey, this is not the best friend, he is not the best friend. And so for him to even say, well, I didn't even have her number right when I was growing up, my, my friends, my, my friends had my mom's number, my grandmother's number, I had their mom's number, their grandparents numbers, because if we were together and something happened, we knew who to call. So no, this was, to me, this whole interview is very suspicious. And I think that if I was a DA looking at this case, I would literally want to bring him back in and have a question, a conversation with him.
- [81:09]
Joy Reid
Let me, let me play a couple other bites. So this. There were a few things that I think this interview did establish that I will give Officer Tatum credit for establishing a couple of fact patterns. So we now know, based on this interview, that there were actually three boats that all went out. There were more than 20 young people all together. They were pulling the boats with their vehicles, not Nolan. Nolan parked his car at one of the homes. He still don't know who's home. And that these three boats went in and the three boats came back. Nolan was not with them. Jason, if you could hit D5. This is where he establishes how many boats.
- [81:46]
Warren Hudson
We had roughly 20 to 30 people coming on three separate boats with us. So we were all following each other out there as one big group. You know, it wasn't just me and Nolan and a couple other my buddies. There was 20 or 30 people spread out where we all met at the dock before. And then we departed to go to Horn Island. It wasn't just a couple of us. I mean, we were. There were so many people. We had to split up between three boats, and we all left and all got there at the same time.
- [82:14]
Joy Reid
Okay, so that was established at how many people were there. He then goes through who was on which boat. And Nolan was on one of the three boats. He was on a different one of the boats. One of the things that Officer Tatum really wanted to establish with this interview is that they weren't the only people on Horn Island. But no one has said that. He spent a lot of time to the audience trying to prove that they were not alone on the island with Nolan, which is not something anyone has ever said. Everyone knows there were hundreds and hundreds of people there. He said up to a thousand people there. I don't think that was in a dispute. But then after doing a lot of discourse about boats and people being in the water and people not putting their phones in the water and taking pictures, he talks a lot about the boating piece of it. Then he talks about the fight, which we've now heard. There's a sound of somebody saying, give me my effing phone. Now, there's one story of who was in this fight. And this is this young man, Tristan, who's another friend of Nolan's, who said he's the one screaming during the fight. Well, in this interview, Warren says it was someone else. Here is D6.
- [83:14]
Interviewer
Let's get ready to leave prematurely.
- [83:18]
Warren Hudson
Right.
- [83:18]
Interviewer
And, like, what? Explain that, because you guys got there around 10.
- [83:21]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [83:22]
Interviewer
It's now 4, 30 people are still out there partying, and they're having a good Time. But something happened to where it. It necessitated you guys to get the boat up and running. Can you explain that?
- [83:33]
Warren Hudson
Yeah. So I looked up. I had a girl come up to me and say, hey, your brother just got in a fight. And obviously, I have a younger brother, and that's what she was talking about. And I was freaked out. So I walked over to the beach, and I didn't walk over. I ran over, I made a beeline. I didn't talk to anybody. Put my drink down and walked over there. And my brother was kind of angry, and, you know, there was a lot going on, but someone was getting pulled away. I don't know who it was. And my brother was like, oh, I just got in a fight, and this guy punched me in the face. And I punched him right back and then went to the ground, and my brother put him in an arm bar.
- [84:18]
Interviewer
Was Nolan involved in any of this?
- [84:20]
Warren Hudson
Absolutely not. When I was over there, it was a bunch of younger guys like my brother's age. And. And I mean, no one. I never saw no one over there. Absolutely not. And. But. Okay, sorry, I just lost my.
- [84:36]
Interviewer
So you get. So you. You get ready to go. There's a. There's an issue with the boat.
- [84:41]
Warren Hudson
Okay.
- [84:41]
Paul Butler
Yeah.
- [84:42]
Warren Hudson
Yeah.
- [84:42]
Interviewer
And this.
- [84:42]
Warren Hudson
This is where this led up to that. That's what I'm saying.
- [84:44]
Interviewer
So the fight happened with your brother. Brother or a little scuffle, you know, you. I'm assuming that it was cleared up.
- [84:50]
Warren Hudson
Right.
- [84:51]
Interviewer
You got your brother out of that.
- [84:52]
Warren Hudson
Right.
- [84:52]
Interviewer
Situation, and then how did you find out that this boat is sinking?
- [84:57]
Warren Hudson
Well, I walk. I walk back over, and, like, we're probably around each other for a little bit. I mean, you know, I wasn't just. I wasn't thinking anything about. To my brother. I pulled my brother off the beach. I was just like, listen, get in the water. Hang out with us. Calm down. I mean, he was calm, but I didn't want anything else to happen, you know? And so once I got back over to the boat, I got on the Triton, and the Triton had probably about 6 inches of water up to the transom. And I was freaked out because I'm good friends with Wyatt, and that was his boat. And, you know, no water's coming out, no access. Water's coming out. And, you know, it was a big issue because I think the reason was because there were so many people getting on and off the boat. And at some point, the boat was very, very crowded.
- [85:45]
Joy Reid
He goes on a lot, Paul, about the condition of the boat, but I don't know. What do you make of that? So we don't know if this other young man, Trace, and I think his name is. Is the younger brother, because then that would make it match up. But if not, then I don't really know what's going on in this fight situation.
- [86:05]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
It sounds like there are two different stories about the fight and two different suggestions about who was involved in the fight. So maybe there were two fights, but that's not what we heard. If there was one fight, again, it shouldn't be that difficult to know who was fighting. So if there was only one fight and yet two different stories about who's in the fight, that makes it sound like someone is not telling the truth.
- [86:37]
Joy Reid
Yeah. Let me play two more. First one, this is the question about Nolan's phone being left on the boat.
- [86:44]
Interviewer
This is D7 phone thing came up at some point. And so was it when you guys got off the boat?
- [86:51]
Warren Hudson
Yeah.
- [86:52]
Interviewer
I mean, were people taking their phones off the boat, or is that. Is that not typical? Because I know that Nolan's phone was left on the boat.
- [87:03]
Warren Hudson
Right.
- [87:04]
Interviewer
Even though, you know, after you guys had left. So can you explain that? Because I think people need to understand this a little clearer. Yeah. Was it typical for people to have their phones left on boats, or did they keep their phones in the water?
- [87:17]
Warren Hudson
I mean, everybody kind of goes out to the island to get away from, you know, their phones and everything else. I know I got on the boat to get away from, you know, just the regular world. And no, when you're waist deep in water, no one's carrying their phone in their hand.
- [87:36]
Joy Reid
Now, Warren, he never answered the question because, you know, Officer Tatum didn't let him answer that. He moved on to. Was it typical to leave your. Sure. Of course, you don't put your. Your phone in the water. But he never let him answer that question because he said he established. Because he said that he'd done a lot of pre interviewing. So we understand. He said, I know more than you guys because I've already talked to these young men. But Officer Tatum said Nolan's phone was left on the boat after you guys left.
- [88:09]
Paul Butler
You know, Joy, this is the thing about this whole interview. Now, I will give officers Tatum this. This much credit. He's trying to have the conversation from a position of, let's try to get all the information out here so we can see what really happened that particular day, which is a wonderful thing. But it's clear that in this interview, he had already talked to them in advance, and he's Leading them in a way that he's guiding them to say certain things and. Well, to have Warren say certain things so that he doesn't look like he. He did anything wrong. Unfortunately, this interview actually has hurt Warren more than helped Warren, and it also may have hurt the other boys more than it's helped them. Because when you sit back and you really listen to everything that's going on in this interview, from the. From the beginning to the end, from the alpha to the omega, it is so many things that's inconsistent. It's so many holes in what the story is. It's so many altercations and different variances of what the story is that it would make anybody say, well, wait a minute, we have to dig a little deeper. We have to ask some more questions, because this is not all adding up. And. And Officer Tatum is actually doing them a disservice by doing this interview the way that he's doing it, because he's not allowing them to tell the story. He's kind of guiding the story.
- [89:26]
Joy Reid
Exactly. And you know, I'm shot. This is this again, y'. All. This is the son of the judge. She's letting her son commit to a story.
- [89:35]
Paul Butler
And that. Believe it.
- [89:36]
Joy Reid
Camera. It's unbelievable that her. His mom is a judge. Let me play probably the one clip. And Warren alluded to it earlier. But, Paul, I want to also ask you about it, because this was the one that I was like, okay, they never should have. He never should have done the interview. This is the part where I was like, yeah, you shouldn't have done it. This is D8. And this is where Warren. Where he is making the case that Nolan decided to stay. And he talks about the witnesses who can. Who can corroborate that fact. D8.
- [90:08]
Warren Hudson
The last time I saw Nolan was 3o'. Clock, and Nolan was cradling a girl in his arms. Katie, you know, Katie and Katie. Nolan was sitting there. And the last time I saw him was. I looked at Nolan, and Nolan was, like, shaking his head, laughing, and I was like, dude, you crazy? I was like, just joking with him. But anyway, Nolan, that was the last time I laid eyes on him. But when we were leaving, obviously no one is getting left at the island that came with us unless they demanded to be there and asked. This is a very common thing at Horn island when you're out there. A lot of people ride out there with someone and in with somebody else all the time. I've done that a hundred times. You know, it's a very common thing. But Nolan was sitting by the boat with that Katie girl. And my buddy yelled at, you know, yelled for Nolan, nolan, get. Get on the boat. We're leaving. The boat's about. The boat's having issues. And. And like, no, he didn't say that, but he was panicking. Nolan, get the f on the boat. Get on the boat. And Nolan said, no, I'm staying out here. I'm going to ride in with somebody else. And it's not uncommon to hear, but it's not like my buddy asked him one time. My buddy asked Nolan multiple times to get on the boat. Nolan, get on the boat. Get on the boat. We're leaving. If you're coming, you got to come now. And Nolan made a decision to stay out on the island. And like he said, you know, how
- [91:43]
Interviewer
many people heard that?
- [91:46]
Warren Hudson
At least a few. Or, I mean, everyone that was on our boat right there. Because the Palm beach had already left. My buddy went ahead and went home on the Palm beach and four, three guys on the way back. And no one. No, no one. Wasn't the only person to ride out there with us and in with somebody else. But it's not like we just left him there or my friends just left him there. Nolan made a decision to stay on the island after my friends asked him multiple times and told him to get on the boat, and he decided to stay.
- [92:16]
Interviewer
And I heard the girl that he was with, Katie, had text somebody that she heard people yelling.
- [92:26]
Warren Hudson
Correct.
- [92:26]
Interviewer
For Nolan to get on it.
- [92:27]
Warren Hudson
Is that true? And I have a picture of that. She text my buddy, and the next day, everybody was panicking, and everybody's texting Katie, you know, because she was obviously seen with Nolan the whole day at the island. Katie sent a message to my buddy the next day and said, you know, this is the last time I saw him. You know, he's really sweet. But she also mentioned that the last time she saw Nolan was when my buddy was yelling at him to get on the boat. And she was right there to see that no one decided not to.
- [92:58]
Joy Reid
Paul. They. Warren said that was at 3 o', clock, that they're yelling at him to get on the boat. An hour and a half later, they left with Nolan's phone, at least according to Warren, still on the boat. Here's my problem with this. And I don't know if maybe again, I'm being a little bit too extra here or too paranoid. I thought Nolan was staying on the island to be with Katie, to hang out with her. That was the original story that he wanted to hang out with Katie. Katie. If the last time Katie saw him is when he was being told, get on the boat, there's no reason to stay because apparently she don't want to hang out with you. She's not hanging out with you because the last time she sees Nolan is at 3 o'. Clock.
- [93:41]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yeah, it, it, it doesn't add up. And again, it's not unusual for people's memories to be faulty, especially about something that, that turns out to be stressful. So it could be kind of an innocent mistake about. Exactly when was the last time that this young man saw Nolan? But again, it's not helpful to the process to have this kind of stream of consciousness interview when the people he should be talking to are the investigators. And especially when we consider that this young man's mother is a judge. That raises all kinds of issues. She's a high profile person in the community. So we've already learned that her son was involved in this, in this day trip to the beach, and her other son got into a fight, allegedly at the beach. Why is she allowing all of this to be made public? Any lawyer knows that it doesn't matter whether you're innocent or guilty. It doesn't matter whether the police say you're a suspect or not. If there's a criminal investigation, you shut the hell up. If you're a suspect, you don't talk to anybody. If you're friends with the victim and you want to cooperate, you talk with law enforcement. But you know that if there is a criminal case made, defense attorneys will go over everything that you've said and they will try to discredit you if that will help their clients. So again, even if this young man doesn't know better, his mother certainly does.
- [95:37]
Paul Butler
So what's up with this, Joy? Joy, let me say this, Paul, you are wonderful man. Man, Let me, let me, let me say that. Because honestly, for you to say, well, this was a stressful situation and maybe this is why this young man gave exact times. He didn't stutter, he didn't say. Well, I'm not really sure. It could have been this time. It could have been that time. No, I saw him last at exactly 3:00'. Clock. We left at exactly 4:30. He was there with Katie, but Katie was yelling that Katie heard that y' all yelled, come on and get on the boat. Look, it's no way you're gonna be that precise unless you literally had this story already kind of in the works. Now, again, I'm not accusing the young man of anything, but I'm just gonna say this. You know, I'm born and raised in the city of Chicago. And when you walk like a duck and you quack like a duck, you a duck to me. And right now this young man sounds like a duck to me.
- [96:38]
Joy Reid
It's very strange. I mean, because if he was staying to be with Katie, a he would need his phone number. Two, the original story was he met Katie for the first time on Horn Island. But now it appears that Katie knows at least some of his friends well enough to be messaging with them. And then they get back at 11 o'. Clock. They still hadn't heard from him, but I don't know how they would because they had his phone. And the question I really wish Officer Tatum, since he has access to these people and we don't would ask is which friend had the phone? Which friend had the phone such that the friend of the mom, Christine had to go get it and who had the keys? Which friend had the. Had Nolan's car such that the dad had to go get it and. And had some trouble getting it. Last thing I'm going to play this one is for you, Paul, because and I'm not going to play it all but the Jackson county da, which this is also unusual, I don't think they normally do this, but let's play a little bit of her statement.
- [97:34]
Child
As District Attorney for the 19th Circuit Court District of Mississippi, I want to talk directly to the people of Jackson County. Our community is grieving the tremendous loss of Nolan Wells, who is loved and treasured by everyone. Nolan's family deserves answers and our community deserves answers. Every death in the county except those of natural causes and non criminal car wrecks are presented to your grand jury. Many people don't know that we have handled death investigations in this manner my entire career. Nolan's case is being handled the same way, with the same care and the same commitment to the truth that we handle all death investigations. I understand the public's urgency to know what happened to Nolan, but we are not taking time for time's sake. We are taking the time required to complete the work this investigation demands. Since Nolan was reported missing, local, state and federal law enforcement agencies have worked around the clock investigating what happened to him. Every piece of of evidence must be examined. Every credible lead must be followed to its conclusion. Every witness interview must be analyzed in context of all other evidence. The pressure for answers does not change what the work requires. Our responsibility to Nolan and our community is to complete this investigation thoroughly, carefully, without compromise, supported by the evidence and worthy of the confidence of the people we serve. I also understand that many people have questions about why more information has not been released publicly. In Mississippi, the rules of professional conduct restrict the information a prosecutor can release during an investigation. Our restraint in communicating facts and evidence is not an effort to keep the truth from the public. It is an effort to protect the integrity of this investigation in the grand jury party proceeding. As your district Attorney, I have an ethical obligation to avoid public statements that could influence witnesses, prejudice a proceeding, or compromise the fairness of the legal process. My obligation extends to and requires me to use reasonable care to ensure investigating agencies avoid making those statements and releasing information.
- [99:52]
Joy Reid
Paul, is that a normal kind of statement for a DA to make?
- [99:57]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
It's not normal in the jurisdictions that I know about in a practice in, but I've never practiced in Mississippi. Joy, you know from your excellent work on Merlee and Medgar Evans and Reverend Sharpen Sharpton made the point at the memorial service that there are legitimate reasons to be concerned. There are historical reasons to be concerned about Mississippi law investigations involving black victims. And so that's not just an artifact of history. That's one reason why there's so much interest and so much concern in this case. But I don't have an issue with the district attorney being transparent about the law and transparent about what the process is. What I am concerned about about is the apparent rush to judgment before this case received the attention of the country, because before, what law enforcement was saying was that there wasn't anything suspicious about the death, that there was nothing to see here. And so it's only in the glare of the public eye that and the media and people like you, Joy, and you, Warren, that this investigation is getting the attention that it deserves.
- [101:23]
Joy Reid
Very quickly, before I go back to Warren for a final word, I'm going to come to you for a second. Is it unusual that the private autopsy comes out before the official one? Because the Jackson County's had the body since early July,
- [101:37]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
so there's not a normal procedure with regard to private autopsies. Typically, those don't happen. What we do know is that the official autopsy is waiting for the toxicology report, and that can take several weeks.
- [101:54]
Joy Reid
Last word to you, Warren.
- [101:55]
Paul Butler
You know, Joy, I played football and we were in a play called the 52 fake out, right? And as I was listening to this da, right, I've been in those grand jury hearings and my daughter just finished her first year of law school and she came home after clerking for the Appellate Court of New York and she's like, dad, you were right. You can indict a ham sandwich. And I said, yeah. You also can make sure that somebody doesn't get indicted in those grand jury hearings. Herb's doing this and talking about this is the 52 fake out. Because what they're going to do is if some evidence is found, if something is there, they're going to say, we put it in front of a grand jury. And the grand jury did not find the bills of indictments. Now, the reason why that's important is because when you go in front of a grand jury, only the prosecutors are there, not the defense, not anybody else. So only prosecutors tell a story, and they don't even have to prove you did anything. All they got to do is prove that you literally was there. And that's enough to get the bills and get an indictment. And you and you in the court system. Now, if they want to make it where you don't get indicted, they know how to do that, too. So don't be surprised if we find evidence, it goes in front of a grand jury and there's no indictment. I'm just laying it out here right now because I can see the play before it's even happening.
- [103:12]
Joy Reid
The 50, 52 fake out, baby.
- [103:16]
Paul Butler
That's what it's called, 52 fake out, baby. I make you think I'm going one way and I'm going a whole nother direction.
- [103:22]
Joy Reid
Warren Ballantyne, you can watch him on SiriusXM, channel 141, Monday through Friday, 1:00pm Eastern Standard Time. Our dear friend, Paul Butler, author, Georgetown law professor, former federal prosecutor, and author of a book you really should put in your collection. It's called Chokehold Policing Black Men. Please avail yourself of that. Thank you both very much. Happy Friday. Have a great weekend.
- [103:43]
Paul Butler
Thank you, Joy.
- [103:44]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Thank you.
- [103:45]
Joy Reid
Thank you very much. And for those who are asking, in the chat, I had initially heard that the judge was the stepmother of this young man. And if she is indeed the person that he's referring to, he keeps talking about his stepfather in the interview. So he refers to the man in his life as his stepfather. So either she just she's the mom, or something else is going on, but she's been referred to as the stepmother in media, but he refers to his stepfather. So I don't know, it's very confusing. I wish they would just make it a little clear who's who, but. And also is traced and related to him because he talks about him. And you're going to probably be hearing more about these boats. The Triton, the Palm beach, and the third boat. There were three boats that were out. Wyatt's boat was the one that had the problem. Nolan was on the Triton, which is why it's boat, which is the one that had the problem. There's a second boat that was called the Palm beach and there was a third boat that was out as well. It's a lot. But anyway, thank both of those guys for being on. Let's move on to our next segment here. I want to show you guys a clip from our little sojourn at Essence Fest and the Global Black Economic Forum. Take a look. Presence of power. Tell us now we want to know solve it.
- [105:03]
Rashad Robinson
Whoa. How, how we, how we go from presence to power is I think, recognizing the actual fights that are in front of us. Presence is visibility, awareness, retweets, shout outs from the stage. It's not necessarily bad, but won't in this attention attempt economy when we mistake all of that for power, we think something has happened that hasn't actually happened, whether it's a black president, meaning we're post racial, whether it's a black celebrity announcing that she's pregnant in America, stopping the Internet stopping means that America loves black people, but really America loves black culture and loves to monetize it and can hate black people at the same time. And so, you know, what I really wanted to do with this book is kind of in a place put together the fights over the last 20 years of taking on big tech, taking on Hollywood, taking on government, winning and losing campaigns, and provide a framework of what we need to do in this era, how we recognize the role of profiteering and never mistake that in our strategies moving forward, how we sort of recognize the role of perception, which is really about who defines the problem, gets to define the solution.
- [106:15]
Joy Reid
And joining me now is the author of the great new book, From Presence to Power, how to take on the fights that matter and win. The and win part is really important. My friend Rashad Robinson, who I will be in conversation with on June 28. Tuesday, June 28 at Politics and Pro 7pm hey, Rashad.
- [106:35]
Rashad Robinson
Hey, Joy. See, I got my purple on for you.
- [106:38]
Joy Reid
I appreciate the purple look. That's a real friend. Yes, a real friend's going to dress for the set.
- [106:45]
Rashad Robinson
I got a purple jacket.
- [106:46]
Melanie Campbell
We can do this.
- [106:47]
Joy Reid
And you do. Rashad is a great dresser. He's great clothes. So let's talk about this because we had a great time at the Global Black Economic Forum in NOLA talking about this book. You've been on a Roll. I mean, I saw a little Lena Waithe tweet. Lena Waithe is going to be doing one of these talks. You got like, all the stars who are coming out for this book talk about this rollout and really what the message is that you're trying to convey.
- [107:09]
Rashad Robinson
Well, the rollout is in this moment, trying to find how we reach as many people as possible. And so I've like. So you and I are going to be in conversation in D.C. i launch on Monday in New York City at the ifc. And we still have a few tickets left, but they seem to be going. But I'm in conversation with the great Jane Fonda and wait, wait, there's tickets for Jane Fonda.
- [107:32]
Joy Reid
You probably gonna sell them all right now. We lost.
- [107:35]
Rashad Robinson
Go to from presence to power.com. when you get a ticket, you'll also get a book. And that event with Jane and I is once again going to be one of these many conversations. I'm going to be with Lena Waithe in, in Los Angeles, with our sister Angela Rai in Seattle, going to be with Charles Blow in New Orleans and a number of other folks out on the road engaged in conversation. Because this book, from my perspective, is for any of us that are looking at what's happening. The people who watch you every day translate what's happening in the world, wonder why we're not winning more things and want to do something about it, but don't know what to do, don't know what's a good use of their time, don't know if the next protest is the right way to engage. What I do in this book is I give you some frameworks to understand what's happening. I give you a way to understand power, some real frameworks around how to build power, how to practice power. And then I also give you exercises, nine exercises throughout the book on how to apply it. So it's not just for you. It is for anyone in your life who's asking those questions. What do we do? How do we use our time? How do we find our power? And so I'm really excited about this. I'm really excited to be out on the road talking, engaging with people, and to be here in this conversation with you.
- [108:55]
Joy Reid
Yeah, absolutely. Our friend Latasha Brown, or the great Latasha Brown, she always says people think voting is like some civic exercise. No, it's literally about power, but voting is not the only way to achieve it. And we say scaring is caring on this here show. But I think beyond just scaring people about democracy, folding it is important to give people something to do, Right? And even there's polling that shows that when people actually have something that they feel like they can do, they feel less afraid.
- [109:23]
Rashad Robinson
Well, honestly, it's not just like, you know, I want you to have something to do. This is a strategy. The right wing, Joy, has been so, so effective at really figuring out how to make politics a participation sport, right? So everyone is participating. You, they put on their red caps, they go to the gym, and they turn on Fox News or some conservative outlet, they're wearing it on their jerseys. They've made it a lifestyle. And as a result of making it a lifestyle, they've been able to change the water in the air for their politicians. Chuck Schumer, right before the, right after the 2016 election, told me and some other activists said not to worry about the filibuster for Supreme Court justices because we were all worried, obviously, because Merrick Garland did not get that same seat and Donald Trump was walking into the White House with an open Supreme Court seat. He said, don't worry about it because Orrin Hatch is an institutionalist, and I know that he will not give up the filibuster for Supreme Court justices. But their side changed the water in the air through their participation. They changed what it meant to be a senator. And Chuck Schumer was probably being a bit Freudian because he's the institution. He also told me during that same conversation that he could work with Jeff Sessions because they had a long relationship and they worked out together in the gym, which is, I think, you know, one of those things that sort of makes us all a little whatever. But all of that to say I knew how to write that, the book in that way. Because on the left, we can sometimes treat our politics like it's theater or it's like sports, like we're watching the Knicks on the court, we're watching Hamilton or whatever our favorite show is on the stage, and the actors are doing the thing and we're participating, commenting, clapping. But the right has done something different. So part of the find your power sections in the book is to help us start shifting sort of our engagement to recognize that we all have a role to play and. And whether or not we have a little bit of time or a lot of time, a little bit of resources or a lot of resources, there's things that we can do. And if we don't begin treating this like a lifestyle, we're not going to overcome what's against us. Our opponents never say things like, when we win because they're in a constant battle. We say things like, when we win. And it's almost like, you know, if you follow Marvel, if you follow, like, you know, action movies, you can't be in a fight with someone where you think the battle's over and they think the battle is never over.
- [112:04]
Joy Reid
That's right.
- [112:05]
Rashad Robinson
That's what we're facing right now. And so this book is an intervention. It's an opportunity to say, hey, do we want to stop dealing with Democrats that we can't trust to actually move things that we want to move? That means that we have to change our behavior, we have to change our relationship to them. We have to change what's expected of them, and we have to make it so that they know that. That we can put them in office, but we can also take them out.
- [112:30]
Joy Reid
Yeah. I will never forget doing a thing for Bishop Barber. And it was sort of a forum where the presidential candidates in 2020 were there. And Joe Biden, when he was running, he comes up and he said he thought he could work with Mitch McConnell. And I naively asked him, like, but you were. You were vice president, United States for eight years while he obstructed everything that President Obama wanted to do. What makes you think it would be any different if you were president? And he got really annoyed. He was very upset and came and stood over me and said, I am not naive. And I'm thinking to myself, are you sure? Because Mitch McConnell went on to bedevil him as well. Why do you suppose it is that Democrats, even now, right. I mean, Andy Beshear is in a position right now, I think is a golden position where he could just be like, that dude is not. Either he's not alive or he's not sentient. I'm going to put somebody in power. I'm going to appoint a senator and let John Roberts sort it out. But Democrats don't move that way. Why?
- [113:25]
Rashad Robinson
Well, because I think that we've allowed them to not. I think that the right wing has not allowed. They have changed the rules for how politicians get to behave and get to act. And that sort of changing of those rules and those environments means that, like, you know, how many of those folks stood on stage and were never Trumpers? How many of them never believe that they would never work with them only
- [113:52]
Joy Reid
to see, dude, Danny Vance said he might be ignorant.
- [113:56]
Rashad Robinson
Exactly. So they have changed the air and the water and politicians will respond. I talk about sort of changing the roles to change the rules in the book. And I talk about it through the lens of the progressive prosecutor movement. And a lot of the work I built through the press repressive pro progressive prosecuting movement was going and taking out a set of prosecutors. I remember 2016 when we first launched a PAC and we went after a few prosecutors. Folks did not know what was coming, right? We started engaging voters through text messaging, which was like novel at the time. And I guess I apologize to all of us now because we're getting a lot of text messages, but we were engaging voters, volunteers with sending direct messages to irregular voters, black voters that had not engaged. And we increased voter turnout in places like Chicago and Orlando and Houston and then next year in places like Philadelphia. And we increased voter turnout so much that it actually shifted who was in the voting pool the next day. We started getting calls from prosecutors who were up for election the next year saying, oh, what do you want? All of a sudden we were able to create litmus tests like Opal. You can't take money from the bail reform, the bail industry and say you're for re bail reform. You can't take money from the private prison industry and say you're with us. We could able to set new standards, but we had to take some people out along the way. We had to pick some fights along the way that proved that we were not. That we were not just like talking about, but we were saying serious. And I think we are in this era right now where we are serious, we sometimes have politicians that will tell us that they're like, ready for the fight. They're like gonna take it on, but then they can't tell us who they're fighting. They can't give us a single example. They will sometimes have more heat for Bernie Sanders. And I'm not saying that any politician doesn't deserve some heat, but they'll have more heat for Bernie Sanders than they will for apac. And you're like, make it all makes sense in terms of like, what we're actually standing up for, what we're actually pushing back on. And so this book, from my perspective, is two years, you know, in two years, when we get to the 28 election, I hope that enough people will have sort of taken the exercises, taken the engagements that we will be in a place to sort of distinguish what's a real solution from a fake solution. As politicians come into our communities and say they're going to work on something, they're going to change something around affordability, but they can't name a corporation that they're going to take on. They're going to change something about policing, but they can't tell us that they're going to take on the police unions. They're going to change something about the criminal justice system, but they can tell us what profiteers, the people who are actually making money off of mass incarceration. Incarceration that they're going to take on. That's my goal here. My goal is to make us all more sharp in terms of what we can demand, what we can expect and how we move forward. And that's right. The goal for all of us, that's the fight ahead. Because, you know, quite frankly, we are in a moment where we are losing a lot of things. And we have to be honest about that.
- [117:13]
Joy Reid
He wore purple because he's a king. Rashad Robinson, this is just a taste of what you're going to get if you get to be in D.C. with us on July 28th at Politics and Pros. We're gonna, we're gonna chop it up and we're gonna strategize. We're gonna do some strategy. And I promise I will dress as fly as this brother has dressed today. I will find some real fly clothes to wear.
- [117:34]
Rashad Robinson
You got it? I just hope people. The book is in pre order right now. So I just hope our opponents, as you know, Joy, they have a whole system infrastructure for getting their ideas out in the world. And a lot of people like me don't get a chance to write books about strategy. They want us to be boots on the ground, but never actually make the interventions on strategy. If you care about racial justice and corporate accountability, if you care about doing something different than what we've been doing before, I hope folks will pick up the book. I hope that folks will share it on social media. I hope folks will engage not just so they can get these ideas out, but also for more people like me, more people like us to be able to write the books about strategy because we can't continue to be the boots on the ground for our party but not get to set the agenda for how we move forward.
- [118:19]
Joy Reid
Amen. The book is From Presence to Power. How to Take on the Fights that Matter and win. Rashad Robinson, I will see you. Well, hopefully I'll see you before. Always. I'll talk to you before, but I'll see you on the 28th. Thank you, brother. I appreciate you and especially the way you strategize for us to win. Thank you.
- [118:34]
Rashad Robinson
Always.
- [118:35]
Joy Reid
See you soon. All right. Yes. That is going to be a good time. We have a good time when we're together. So we're going to have a good old time. That is a Tuesday evening. So hopefully you guys will be able to be there if you are in D.C. all right, we're going to get really quickly to our moment of joy. Now. Our moment of joy is one of our very, very favorite producer, very favorite content creators. He's called hello dimei. And here is just to give you a preview. Here's how it started.
- [119:00]
Rashad Robinson
My truck.
- [119:01]
Child
Daddy.
- [119:02]
Melanie Campbell
Yes. Car.
- [119:03]
Joy Reid
Car, Daddy.
- [119:04]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yes. Ass.
- [119:06]
Rashad Robinson
What are the bubbles, Daddy?
- [119:09]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yes.
- [119:10]
David Jolly (voice in video)
Water.
- [119:11]
Joy Reid
Want some snack?
- [119:12]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yeah.
- [119:13]
Melanie Campbell
Trunk, Daddy?
- [119:14]
Joy Reid
Yes. Oh, aeroplane.
- [119:17]
David Jolly
Yes.
- [119:20]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yes.
- [119:20]
Paul Butler
The bridge.
- [119:22]
Joy Reid
That's river. Yes, that's a river.
- [119:24]
Interviewer/Guest
Yes.
- [119:25]
Joy Reid
Birds singing. Yes, the birds are singing. Are you sleeping, Daddy?
- [119:30]
David Jolly (voice in video)
Yes.
- [119:31]
Joy Reid
Bird it.
- [119:32]
David Jolly (voice in video)
Oh, yes.
- [119:34]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Porsche.
- [119:35]
Child
Yeah.
- [119:36]
Paul Butler
Wow.
- [119:44]
Rashad Robinson
Yes.
- [119:44]
Joy Reid
One baby bicycle. You want baby bicycle?
- [119:48]
Child
Yes.
- [120:00]
Joy Reid
Okay. And a lot of us were very sad that baby Di wanted his own bicycle. We're like, no, we like the veggie. To the baby and the man together with the bike. Well, fear not. Our moment of joy tonight is that the bike and baby Ben bandwagon is not over. It's just gotten even cuter. Here is our moment of joy. And this one is hello Dimeji and baby.
- [120:30]
Paul Butler
Those are flowers.
- [120:32]
Joy Reid
Flowers, Daddy, Bees.
- [120:33]
David Jolly (voice in video)
Yes.
- [120:34]
Child
Here.
- [120:34]
Paul Butler
The flowers.
- [120:36]
Joy Reid
The flower is like, snack for the bees. I should slow down. That's a liter.
- [120:44]
Melanie Campbell
Yes.
- [120:45]
Joy Reid
Do you want us to pick it up?
- [120:45]
David Jolly
Yeah.
- [120:47]
David Jolly (voice in video)
Good job.
- [120:47]
Melanie Campbell
Up, up.
- [120:49]
Paul Butler
Yes. Good job.
- [120:50]
Joy Reid
You remembered, Daddy.
- [120:52]
Interviewer/Guest
Yes.
- [120:52]
Joy Reid
Why pick it up?
- [120:54]
Paul Butler
We picked it up because it's important
- [120:56]
Joy Reid
that we keep the earth clean. If animals eat this, you can hurt the animal.
- [121:02]
Interviewer/Guest
Yes.
- [121:02]
Joy Reid
Ben, you want to put it inside?
- [121:05]
Child
Wow. Good job.
- [121:06]
Joy Reid
You want snacks?
- [121:07]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yes.
- [121:07]
Child
Daddy.
- [121:08]
Joy Reid
What do we do with this? We keep it.
- [121:10]
Paul Butler
Yes, we keep it.
- [121:11]
Joy Reid
There was a flower.
- [121:13]
Paul Butler
The one we saw earlier?
- [121:14]
Melanie Campbell
Yeah.
- [121:14]
Paul Butler
It's a Ragworth.
- [121:17]
Joy Reid
So this is how we make space for nature. You ready to go?
- [121:20]
Interviewer/Guest
Yeah.
- [121:22]
Paul Butler
Oh, yes.
- [121:23]
Joy Reid
That's a Ragworth. Are you touching that?
- [121:25]
Dr. Avis Jones DeWeaver
Yeah.
- [121:26]
Paul Butler
Wow.
- [121:28]
David Jolly
Yes.
- [121:28]
Rashad Robinson
Bye.
- [121:28]
Joy Reid
Bye, Ragworth. Oh, my gosh. It is so cute. Big up to hello DiMaggi and nature Scott and this beautiful family who give us so much joy. One of the my absolute favorite followers. If you ever go on hello, Dimeji and nature Scott, you will feel happy to because they give us joy every day. We love their bike rides and that father and son bonding. Thank you all for watching the joy Reacher. Oh, my God, they're so cute. Adorable. What would you say, Jason, you have to say it on the mic now. I just say, just don't forget that
- [121:58]
Paul Butler
we're having it live afterwards.
- [122:00]
Joy Reid
Yes. We're going to be now I'm going to. I'm going to run away for five minutes. I'm going to go and get my security but first I'm going to take my z biotic because you all know I can't with the menopause. I'm going to take my zbiotic, get my security. Going to go do our members only live. Hopefully you guys are members already so you can be in the after party. I believe we have recruited Jackie Reed to come in. We're going to talk about whether Howard University should have disenrolled all those students because they couldn't pay and whether AI music is real music and whether real musicians should be supporting it. I know my answer. Hope you guys will have an answer too. And then you also it's an ask me anything. Talk about anything you want. The after party starts in three, two. Well, like five minutes. Like I'll get myself. See you guys on the next show and have a great weekend. Love you guys.
- [122:42]
Paul Butler
Getting back to the basics, grassroots level Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel plenty can't tell the force from the trees that I'm hard to detect Like a black hole in the dark Injustice anywhere it's a threat to justice everywhere Let me make this clear I got a bone to pick and I'll never fear the threat of poverty they don't want to talk about it they rap the party so I'm a real talk about it for sure.