Donald Trump (4:26)

Because it's part of my physical. Getting an MRI is very sad, the way you think I shouldn't have. You know, typically an mri. I had an mri. Here's what's hysteria. I had an mri. Doctor said it was the best result he has ever seen as a doctor. That's it. But I had an MRI as part of my Standard, yearly or every. I think they do it every two years, but I have the physical every year and the result was outstanding. Did you know? I have no idea what they analyze, but whatever they analyze, they analyze it well, and they said that I had as good a result as they've ever seen.

Joy Reid (5:08)

Somebody in the chat says, somebody hug y'. All. President, he don't even know what the MRI was for. He has no idea. No. No idea. But what he's now currently losing his mind over, over the last 24 hours are members of the House and United States Senate who happen to be military veterans, unlike himself, posting this PSA message to their fellow service members. This is A2. I'm Senator Alyssa Slotkin, senator from Michigan, former CIA officer. Earlier today, President Trump threatened myself and a number of other service and veteran lawmakers with arrest, trial and death because he didn't agree with a video we put out this week. This really isn't about those of us who made the video. This is about who we are as Americans and how we're going to engage with people who. Do you want this video? Nope, that's not it. I think I put in the wrong video. The video is essentially a group of members of the United States Senate and House. It's six of them, everybody including Alyssa Slotkin. It's out there. You guys have seen. I'm going to post it. I will post it to substack. That's my bad. I actually put the wrong video into the dumper, into the little dumpster thing, the little place we put the video. But the video is a bunch of veterans who are all saying you're not supposed to go with unlawful orders. If you. If you receive an unlawful order. Illegal order. An illegal order, then you're not to follow it. So that was literally what the video was. So Donald Trump's response was, first, he retweeted a Truth Social user whose handle was a symbol that's frequently used by white nationalists. It was used by the man who shot up a mosque in New Zealand, and it's frequently used by them. So he retweeted this user who basically said, hang these people. Just said, hang them. And then he posted his own post that says seditious behavior punishable by death. Those are the two posts. Those are the correct posts. Now, Donald Trump, by the way, who was a draft dodger, is attacking members of the United States House and Senate who actually served and saying that, implying they should be hung. And you would think that despite declining to serve when his country called on him, now that He's Commander in Chief. Donald Trump would take the time to. To actually learn the military's rules, including the Uniform Code of Military justice, which explicitly states explicitly that members of the military must not follow illegal orders. It's literally what the Nuremberg Trials were about after World War II, that German soldiers said that they were just following orders when they committed genocide against their Jewish neighbors. When they went to trial in the Nuremberg Trials, the United States, which supplied most of the judges and prosecutors, said, just following orders is not an excuse if you're committing a crime. So lots of Democrats have come out blasting these posts that Donald Trump put. Gavin Newsom called him sick. He said, this man is sick. He reposted Donald Trump's little truth Social, and this was the one he wrote about seditious behavior. He called him sick. Representative Pramila Jayapal, who used to head the Progressive Caucus, she talked about the fact that she herself has faced calls to hang her because of her progressive views. And she also denounced. She put both of the posts in her post and said, these are repulsive and terrible. And she said, this is not a joke. These calls for political violence are completely unacceptable. They must stop. Hakeem Jeffries essentially told Trump just to shut up. He basically is like, he needs to keep his mouth shut and just be quiet because his unhinged thoughts are unwanted. That was his response to it. There's Hakeem Jeffries saying he needs to keep his reckless mouth shut. But on the other side, the House Speaker, Mike Johnson. This was a layup, and he kind of fumbled it. Members of the United States media, members of the DC Media approached him, and this is what he said.

David K. Johnston (9:06)

The President posted that Democrats who urged.

Joy Reid (9:09)

Service members to not follow illegal orders should be punished. It should be seditious conspiracy and punishable by death. Give me a response to that.

Dr. John Gartner (9:19)

Look, I know the DOJ and the.

Pete Hegseth (9:23)

Pentagon are looking into the legality of.

Joy Reid (9:25)

All that, but what I can address.

Dr. John Gartner (9:26)

Is what everybody knows.

Joy Reid (9:28)

That was wildly inappropriate. It is very dangerous.

Pete Hegseth (9:31)

You have leading members of Congress telling.

Joy Reid (9:33)

Troops to disobey orders. I think that's unprecedented and impressed American history.

Pete Hegseth (9:37)

And as the father of a young.

Joy Reid (9:39)

Man who is, you know, at the.

Pete Hegseth (9:40)

Naval Academy, going to be joining the service. I know young soldiers, airmen, sailors. They don't need that kind of nonsense from people in Congress. It is very dangerous. I'm going to let others define what.

Joy Reid (9:58)

It is, but it's wildly inappropriate. Yeah, that's, that's, that's not. Well, that's not good. I think it's not that hard to say. This is a terrible thing. Let's listen to Senator Mark Kelly, who's one of the people who was in the ad. This was one of his responses expected.

David K. Johnston (10:12)

After serving 25 years in the Navy, flying combat missions over Iraq and Kuwait, flying the space shuttle, that now I've got to worry about my personal safety and that of my wife, Gabby Giffords, who was already nearly assassinated because of something the president said.

Joy Reid (10:28)

Are you worried about your personal safety tonight?

David K. Johnston (10:31)

Well, I'm in this job with rising political violence, you have to be concerned. And any president's words carry a lot of weight. He's got supporters out there that they, they listen to what he says. And when he calls for the execution of myself and five of my colleagues in Congress, that means something to a lot of people. And by the way, Caitlin, I think it's important to say that there is nothing more American than standing up for the Constitution. That's what we were doing. President didn't like it, so now he calls for us to be hanged.

Joy Reid (11:12)

So there we have it. And just, I'm just letting you know, I just dropped the Dempsa into the little file there. If you do get a chance to get it, we can play it later in the show because I just, I just dropped it. It's just called dempsa. But that was Mark Kelly's response. Now, Kelly also, by the way, pissed off MAGA when he went on Morning Joe this morning and invoked Charlie Kirk's murder. And that, of course, made them go crazy. But let's listen to another senator. This is Senator Lindsey Graham. And he had a take that required an answer that I think former Defense Secretary Mark Esper could actually have the answer to, because Esper did in an interview with 60 Minutes, which I can't play because we can't play 60 Minutes on here. But he also wrote a book in which he said Donald Trump, when he was temporarily defense secretary and Trump was commander in chief the first time, wanted to shoot protesters in the leg. So let's listen to Senator Lindsey Graham. And then a response in which the current defense secretary, TV Pete Hegseth answers the question.

Pete Hegseth (12:06)

A military lawyer for 33 years, I was a prosecutor, defense attorney and a military judge.

Joy Reid (12:13)

And if you're listening to this program.

Dr. John Gartner (12:14)

Tonight, I find no evidence that President.

Pete Hegseth (12:18)

Trump or anyone in your chain of command has issued unlawful order to you.

Joy Reid (12:24)

To the people who made these accusations.

Pete Hegseth (12:27)

I'm going to write you a letter tomorrow and I want you to tell.

Joy Reid (12:30)

The country what orders you think are unlawful. What did President Trump do wrong as.

Pete Hegseth (12:36)

Commander in chief, you owe that to.

Joy Reid (12:38)

The men and women of the military to be specific about what you're talking about. In June of 2020, then, President Trump directed former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper.

Randy Weingarten (12:48)

To shoot protesters in the legs in downtown D.C. an order secretary Esper refused to comply with. Would you carry out such an order from President Trump?

David K. Johnston (13:01)

Senator, I was in the Washington D.C. national Guard unit that was in Lafayette Square during those.

Randy Weingarten (13:07)

Would you carry out an order in my country? In the legs, I saw 50 Secret.

Joy Reid (13:12)

Service agents get injured by rioters trying to jump over the fence, set the.

David K. Johnston (13:17)

Church on fire and destroy.

Randy Weingarten (13:18)

You know what that sounds to me.

Joy Reid (13:19)

That you will comply with such an order. You will shoot protesters in the.

Randy Weingarten (13:23)

In the leg.

Joy Reid (13:25)

Well, there you go. I mean, that is the illegal order that they were talking about when they did the psa. And Jason, you can let me know whenever you got PSA when you put it up. But let me let you hear now. Donald Trump defending his call for the deaths of six members of Congress, House and Senate.

Donald Trump (13:41)

You what, what they said is, and it was, I mean, I don't know about the modern day things because, you know, modern day is a lot softer, but in the old days, if you said a thing like that, that was punishable by death.

Joy Reid (13:53)

Yeah, but you're not saying, you're not threatening them.

David K. Johnston (13:56)

A lot of people are interpreting this.

Joy Reid (13:57)

A threat and they're securing.

Donald Trump (13:58)

I'm not threatening them, but I think they're in serious trouble. I would say they're in serious trouble. I'm not threatening death, but I think they're in serious trouble. In the old days, it was death.

Joy Reid (14:08)

Oh, dear.

Donald Trump (14:09)

Worry, Mr. President. Seditious behavior.

Joy Reid (14:11)

Do you worry?

Donald Trump (14:12)

It was a big deal, you know, with. Nothing's a big deal. Today's a different world. Okay. It's a softer mic. It's a meeker, milder world. But I will say this. I think what they did is really bad. The hatred is pretty strong. But what, what, what they say, you know, essentially don't follow the orders of the President of the United States.

Joy Reid (14:35)

So.

Donald Trump (14:36)

To the military.

Joy Reid (14:37)

Yeah, yeah, he tried to help him, but he couldn't. Brian, Kill me. Did his best, but Trump was like, no, no, no, I like the world. Back when you could just kill him, but you could kill people. Say nice things to me. You need to be nice. Remember, he's the Charlie X. He's like, you gotta be nice to me. Or boom, boom, boom, kaboom. I got the PSA if you wanted. Okay, here we go. Jason's got the psa. Thank you very much. Jason Reed. Here is the PSA that Donald Trump said should cause the deaths of six members of Congress. I'm Senator Alyssa Slotkin.

David K. Johnston (15:03)

Senator Mark Kelly.

Joy Reid (15:05)

Representative Chris d'. Aluzio. Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander. Representative Chrissy Houlihan. Congressman Jason Crow.

David K. Johnston (15:11)

I was a captain in the United States States Navy, Former CIA officer, former.

Joy Reid (15:14)

Navy, former paratrooper and Army Ranger, former intelligence officer, former Air Force.

David K. Johnston (15:19)

We want to speak directly to members.

Joy Reid (15:21)

Of the military and the intelligence community.

Dr. John Gartner (15:23)

Who take risks each day to keep Americans safe.

Joy Reid (15:26)

We know you are under enormous stress and pressure right now. Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk.

David K. Johnston (15:32)

This administration is pitting our uniform military.

Joy Reid (15:35)

And intelligence community professionals against American citizens like us.

David K. Johnston (15:40)

You all swore an oath to protect.

Joy Reid (15:42)

And defend this Constitution. Right now, the threats to our Constitution.

Dr. John Gartner (15:46)

Aren'T just coming from abroad, but from.

Joy Reid (15:47)

Right here at home.

David K. Johnston (15:48)

Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.

Joy Reid (15:52)

You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders. No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard and that.

David K. Johnston (16:02)

It'S a difficult time to be a public servant.

Joy Reid (16:04)

But whether you're serving in the CIA, the army or Navy, the Air Force.

David K. Johnston (16:08)

Your vigilance is critical.

Joy Reid (16:10)

And know that we have your back. Because now more than ever, the American people need you. We need you to stand up for our laws, our Constitution, and who we are as Americans. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up the ship. Now, what about that is sadistic Nothing. They're just stating the law. And Donald Trump is the one who wanted to shoot protesters and is putting the military on the streets in the United States, in American cities, despite the Posse Comitatus act that says they're not supposed to be there. So I'm just going to leave that there. Now, that's that on one set. I'm going to put that in one box. On the other box. In the other box here. This morning, the House voted overwhelmingly to condemn socialism. We're just going to put this video up. I'm probably going to talk over. This is 8:12. There it is. There's the vote. Look at all those Democrats that voted with Republicans for no reason whatsoever to do a ostentatious, unneeded condemnation of socialism. Why do they do that? I don't know. But you know what was happening at that time. This is a 13. Let me show you guys what was actually happening while they were voting for no reason whatsoever. The. And then a bunch of Democrats joined.

David K. Johnston (17:32)

Republicans for no reason.

Joy Reid (17:35)

The day Mama comes, let's see how that went. The media was not present, of course, because Donald Trump don't like to have meetings in front of other people, because, I mean, you know, with Putin and stuff, he wanted to give them intelligence and hand it over. But with Mamdani, he also met behind closed doors, but then they did a press availability. You must watch this, Jason. Will Jason.

Donald Trump (17:59)

Discuss what they were. But that. I feel very confident that he can do a very good job. I think. I think he's going to be. I think he is going to surprise some conservative people, actually, and some very liberal people. He won't surprise him because they already like him.

Joy Reid (18:16)

Oh, so he's not a commie anymore?

Dr. John Gartner (18:17)

Donald.

Devin (18:17)

Wait, what happened?

Joy Reid (18:18)

I thought he was a commie. I thought he was a commie. Wait a minute. Okay. All right. So. So, okay. So you now say he's not a commie anymore. He's a very smart guy. He won a big victory. Nobody thought he could. Everybody thought, he's very great. He's very great. Let's see if Mamadani is going to return the favor. When he is asked, is Trump a fascist? He asked about your comment calling the president a fascist, and your answer was, both President Trump and I have been clear about our positions and our views. Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?

David K. Johnston (18:50)

I've spoken about.

Donald Trump (18:51)

That's okay. You can just say okay. It's easier. It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind.

Joy Reid (18:59)

It's fine. Just say I'm a fascist. It's fine. You don't even have to answer that. He didn't want to get. Because Mamdani says. Mamdani was.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (19:06)

Oops.

Joy Reid (19:07)

Let's do one more. One more. Mayor Madani, this is a 16. And he's asked a little bit more.

Devin (19:15)

Just days ago, you referred to President.

Dr. John Gartner (19:16)

Trump as a despot who betrayed the country. You said I would be his worst.

Joy Reid (19:20)

Nightmare and accused him of having a fascist agenda.

Dr. John Gartner (19:24)

Are you planning to retract any of.

Joy Reid (19:26)

These remarks in order to improve your relationship? I think both President Trump and I, we are very clear about our positions and our views. And what I really appreciate about the president is that the meeting that we had focused not on places of disagreement.

David K. Johnston (19:39)

Which there are many, and also focused.

Joy Reid (19:41)

On the shared purpose that we have in serving New Yorkers.

Donald Trump (19:44)

And frankly, that is something that could.

Joy Reid (19:46)

Transform the lives of the 8.5 million.

David K. Johnston (19:48)

People who are currently struggling under a cost of living crisis with one in.

Joy Reid (19:51)

Four living in poverty.

Donald Trump (19:52)

And the meeting came back again and.

Joy Reid (19:54)

Again to what it could look like to lift those New Yorkers out of struggle, not start to deliver them a city that they could do more than just struggle to afford it, but actually start to live in it. That he. Boy, he's good.

Donald Trump (20:03)

Worse than a desk, but it's not that insulting. Maybe I think he'll change his mind after we get to working together. Yes, please.

Joy Reid (20:12)

He just said I've been called worse than a desperate. It's fine, it's fine. Joining me now. He's good. Y' all joining me now to unpack all that's going on here, Dr. John Gartner, noted psychologist, psychotherapist, author, activist, and former part time assistant professor at Johns Hopkins University Medical school, who in 2017 founded Duty to Warn, which brought together thousands of mental health professionals to warn about dangerous individuals around us and who has over the years tried repeatedly, repeatedly to sound about Donald Trump's condition alongside our good friend David K. Johnston, journalist, author, Trump biographer, who probably knows more about Trump than just about everyone and who has also tried to warn Americans for years about Donald Trump. I want to let you guys go in order. You are new to the show, Dr. Gardner, and thank you so much for coming on. I was so glad when my team was able to get in touch with you. What do you see going on there in the difference between the way Trump berates journalists, yells, screams, loses his mind, then he gets in front of somebody he called a communist and he can't do it to his. He can't do it. Whereas Mamdani was literally like. And he was going to do it to a safe. What is happening?

Dr. John Gartner (21:20)

Well, I think he knows how to be. First of all, by the way, thank you for having me. I'm a big fan. But look, I think he knows how to be charming. I mean, he does, but one of the things that we're seeing, I've argued that he's showing signs of dementia. And by the way, I'm very grateful that you showed that clip about him talking about his mri, because as a doctor, if you listen to what he's told us and what we know, he's actually telling us that his doctors think he probably has dementia. He has told us that he has taken cognitive tests, plural. He said it three times. Now, let me just explain that we might give someone a dementia screening exam as a matter of course. We do not give people a full neuropsychological workup of cognitive Tests unless we suspect a serious problem or trying to rule out a problem. The same thing with an mri. We never, ever, ever give an MRI for no reason. We only give it if we are suspecting a serious problem. So they've given him a neuropsychological workup. They've given him an mri. That means they have a high index of suspicion because they've seen the same behaviors and traits that we've all seen, that he has serious organic cognitive decline. So it's right there because we've been criticized for diagnosing him. Right. Without examining him. And what I'm saying is the people who are examining him, who are obviously lying to us, have essentially tipped their hand. I just want the American people to know that.

Joy Reid (22:51)

And do you think that he. When it comes to somebody like a mom, dad. I mean, we know, and David probably can get into this much more that he tends to shy around stronger men. He's always had been saved by stronger men, whether it was his father or Roy Cohn or Vladimir Putin. He tends to become a Beta to them almost immediately. He does that with Mamdani, who's, like, young enough to be his grandson. But do you think it's possible that he doesn't remember that he called him a Communist?

Dr. John Gartner (23:19)

You know, actually, the issue of his memory is very important. I don't know the answer specifically to whether he remembers he called him a communist, but I want to point out that he's been showing declines in the four areas we see in dementia. Language, memory, behavior, and psychomotor performance. And more very recently, when they were negotiating the shutdown, he said that he had talked to Chuck Schumer and he brought a very nice man with him that he talked to. He brought a very nice man. The man's name is Hakeem Jeffries. Okay. But he referred to him as a very nice man. First of all, I don't think he thinks Hakeem Jeffries is a nice man. He put sombrero and a mustache on him. But the point is, he literally didn't recognize that the minority leader of the House, who he deals with on a regular basis, we're talk. That's a demented level of memory impairment. That's like when you bring your sister to the nursing home, right? And your mother goes, goes, who's that nice woman you brought with you? Well, that's your daughter. Mom. It's that level of memory impairment. It's not the first time. Michael Wolf has written in his book that he has frequently seen people he recognizes for known for years and not recognize them. So I just want to point out that this is continuing to happen. We're continuing to see hard signs of serious mental decline, and it's only going to get worse.

Joy Reid (24:32)

Yeah. David K. Johnson, please weigh in. What are you seeing?

David K. Johnston (24:36)

Well, Donald very clearly has serious mental decline. He was much sharper when I first met him 37 years ago. And I've spent many, many hours with Donald over the years. And John and the other scientists who work in the area of cognition and emotional behavior are all correct, I think, in pointing out that his deficiencies have gotten worse over time. I think one of the most telling signs, and John may correct me about this, is there are several videos of Donald not only not walking in a straight line. I mean, I have a small impairment, so I don't walk in a perfectly straight line, but he zigzagged four or five feet in each direction. That, my understanding is a clear sign of a psychomotor problem that Trump has. And as to your original issue here about Mamdani and changing his position and not recognizing Hakeem Jeffries, Donald is very much living in the moment of what's going on. He is not. He's never been a strategic thinker. He, at best, he's a tactical thinker. That is short range. And so he also understands that he needs to get people to minimize people pulling away from him. So the way he handled the incoming mayor of New York City, he can continue to appeal to his base. He can reach out to other people. And his fundamental skill has always been muddying clear waters. When it's crystal clear what's going on, Donald just figures out how to stir up the bottom and confuse everybody. That's what he was doing with having the mayor elect just come to the White House.

Joy Reid (26:21)

Yeah. And you mentioned 20, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Let me just play. This is a 17. This is just a short, about a minute and a half of Donald Trump over the years, starting in the 1980s, just so that we can kind of get a sense of what he's been like. For those who are not familiar, yes, an ad is one way you could have called up shows like this. Trying to have you come on.

Pete Hegseth (26:38)

Why now?

Donald Trump (26:39)

Well, it was very easy. I was tired. And I think a lot of people are tired of watching other countries ripping off the United States. This is a great country. They laugh at us behind our backs. They laugh at us because of our own stupidity. And the leaders, I mean, what we have, we have a Persian Gulf situation. You saw what happened today. Billions and billions of dollars are being spent on getting oil for Japan, and they're not paying anything for it. Essentially, they're paying nothing.

Randy Weingarten (27:03)

Well, the new book is entitled Surviving at the Top. There are many people who would say failing at the top.

Donald Trump (27:12)

Well, I think what the press has done is taken a situation where they see something and blow it to kingdom come. I've never seen anything like it. Whether it's a marriage, by the way, or whether it's financial. I've never seen press reporting as I have with regard to me. And I hope the general public understands how inherently dishonest the press in this country is.

Randy Weingarten (27:38)

As a member of the press, let me try to clear up some of the things which you say aren't true. You write in your book, my backers and I worked at a terrific deal that allows me to come out stronger than ever. I see the deal as a great victory, and eventually the rest of the world will, too. Being on the verge of bankruptcy, being bailed out by the bank, skating on thin ice and almost drowning.

Joy Reid (28:03)

That is a.

Randy Weingarten (28:04)

That's a businessman to be admired.

Donald Trump (28:06)

You say on the verge of bankruptcy, Barbara, and you talk on the verge, and you listen to what people are.

Joy Reid (28:11)

Saying to your bank.

Donald Trump (28:13)

Well, that's fine. And what do they say? I mean, you know, depending on which bank you're talking to, what do they say to you?

David K. Johnston (28:17)

All these years, she's got to be doing something special. What's her secret?

Donald Trump (28:20)

Well, she is terrific in bed. Now, she wouldn't want me to say that, but she is.

David K. Johnston (28:23)

Is it the amount of positions she.

Joy Reid (28:25)

Knows, or is it the oral?

David K. Johnston (28:26)

What is it?

Donald Trump (28:27)

I mean, specifically, she's just overall terrific. What do you want me to sign, Jennifer?

Devin (28:32)

Okay.

Donald Trump (28:32)

Can I use your back? I love this.

Dr. John Gartner (28:36)

This is fun.

Donald Trump (28:37)

Using Jennifer. Jennifer's back to sign a release. I could do this all day long. Thank you, John.

Joy Reid (28:45)

Thank you.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (28:47)

I said.

Donald Trump (28:48)

Somebody said, well, what would you do? What can you do? So easy, I drop a 25% tax on China. And, you know, I said to somebody that is really the messenger. The messenger is important. I could have one man say, we're.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (29:07)

Going to tax you 25%.

Donald Trump (29:09)

And I could say another, listen, you motherfuckers, we're going to tax you 25%.

Joy Reid (29:16)

Why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?

Donald Trump (29:19)

Well, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who's highly Respected asking him a horrible, insubordinate and just a terrible question. And you could even ask that same exact question nicely. You're all psyched. Somebody psychs you over at abc, they're going to psych it. You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter.

Joy Reid (29:52)

Let me start with you, David, because you've interviewed him over the years. I mean, he obviously has the same issues where he's combative with the press, where he's whiny about everyone being mean to him. That's consistent from 87 on that he complains that he doesn't get good press. I will give Barbara Walters huge credit for being able to actually push back on him and come back. I wish all journalists would do that now. But do you, what do you see that's different about those videos from 87 to this year?

David K. Johnston (30:17)

Well, he used to do this with at least some sort of element of charm and some effort to blunt. Now it's just a flat out attack, as he did with, I think it was Mary Bruce of abc. And he also uses it a way to avoid answering questions he doesn't want to answer. Now, Donald has always, throughout his life, long before I knew him, had difficulty often dealing with reality about things because he sees the world in which everyone else is useless and terrible unless they're serving him. And he's special. He literally said this year, you know, I run the country in the whole world. Something I've said he's believed for a long time. And when I first said that 14 years ago, I was kind of mocked for it. And by the way, his bankers testified under oath that he was one day away from uncontrolled bankruptcy in 1990. So for him to say that's not right, Barbara, is just nonsense. But he can't address subtle or complex questions. And I think he knows this at some level. So he pulls out the attack instead as a defense mechanism to deflect from issues he's not prepared to deal with. And we've seen him a couple of times in the last seven years where he starts to answer a tough question from a journalist and then he wanders off, just like he does when he's walking into some strange space. And of course, eventually he says, well, that's the weave, you know, they don't understand how brilliant I am that I can wander off and come back to this. Now he loses track of what's he thinking about.

Joy Reid (31:48)

Yeah. And Dr. Gardner, I've been, I've been watching a lot of your interviews and one of the things you Talk about is also the loss of impulse control. Because I think about what president that I can think of, and there have been some horrible ones. Andrew Johnson, you know, Woodrow Wilson. Horrible people. I can't imagine any of them, if they had the technology in that time to post. I think six members of the House and Senate should be killed. Donald Trump did that. And how fearful should we be given that? Mark Esper, who was his defense secretary, said he actually tried to operationalize that the first time he was president.

Dr. John Gartner (32:18)

Look, he's always been a malignant narcissist. We see that at these tapes. But I'm so glad you played them, because to diagnose dementia, we need to see a deterioration from someone's own baseline. So as you saw there, he used to be quite articulate and speak in polished paragraphs. Now he has difficulty completing a sentence, a thought, and sometimes even a word. So sometimes people say, oh, he's just dumb. Well, no, this is a gross deterioration from his own baseline. And the other areas in which we look for deterioration are behavior, memory and psychomotor. You've just mentioned behavior. When people become demented, they become more impulsive and crude and aggressive. And so even though he was a jerk to begin with, now it's more crude and more aggressive and more, you know, saying like, shut up, piggy and that kind of thing. Whereas before he might have been more insulting in a more kind of clever way, now it's just kind of a blatant spewing forth of, of hate.

Joy Reid (33:17)

And how bad could it get? I mean, if he, let's say, gets through his entire four years as president, doesn't, you know, become too ill, quite frankly, to stay on. I mean, he's got bruises all over his hands, his cankles are swollen. Let's just say he's healthy enough to get through four years. What can we look forward to?

Dr. John Gartner (33:35)

Well, I always say to people, look at Donald Trump today, because that's the best Donald Trump you're ever going to see. Because the nature of dementia is it doesn't stay the same. It doesn't get better. It only gets worse. And it gets worse at an accelerating rate. I don't believe Donald Trump will be capable of completing a four year term. I believe that he will fall off a cognitive cliff before that happens. Whether the sycophants around him will ever invoke the 25th Amendment is another question. But we are watching in real time the unraveling of his mental capacity. And you mentioned, by the way, his weaving around the carpet when he Met Putin. If you take that same film and you slow it down, you'll see a very specific type of motor problem that we see in frontotemporal dementia. It's called a wide based gait. His right leg, he kind of swings it in a semicircle like it's a dead weight, and that's what is pushing him to the left side of the carpet. Then he overcorrects and then he put, he weaves over there again. So it's not a drunken kind of weaving. It's a very specific kind of gait that is very, a very specific sign of a very specific disorder.

Joy Reid (34:43)

And for those who have said, well, you've not diagnosed him, you've not seen him personally, how do you answer that? How can you be so sure that you're seeing dementia?

Dr. John Gartner (34:52)

Well, what people need to understand about the Goldwater rules, it says that you can't diagnose a public figure you haven't interviewed. It doesn't say you can't diagnose a patient. We diagnose patients that way. Not often, but often enough. And it's considered valid. This was an attempt to keep from alienating public figures and turning them against the profession. Okay, why is it only public figures that we're not allowed to diagnose? And by the way, this was affirmed when the American Psychiatric association met to consider relaxing the Goldwater rule. And instead they actually strengthened it. And the head of the ethics committee said, and this is quoted in the New Yorker by my colleague John Zinner, well, of course we have to affirm the Goldwater rule, otherwise he'll cut our third party payments. So this is a cover your ass for the profession rule. Just so people understand, all of our diagnostic criteria are since the 1980s and we adopted DSM 3 are observable behavioral criteria. That means if I can observe your behavior. And these criteria are all very common sense criteria. In plain English, for example, is he a psychopath? I don't know. Psychopaths lie. They violate laws and norms, they violate people's rights, and they have no, they have no remorse about it. Well, I think we can tick those boxes. He's the most documented liar in recorded human history. Tell me, who comes close? I think we can admit that we've met that criteria. So this is really just mumbo jumbo that people have been throwing out smoke signals to kind of both, you know, fool the American people and say, look, you're not see. Don't trust your own eyes. You're not seeing what you're seeing. And unfortunately, I feel the press has been somewhat complicit in this. I'm so grateful to be on your podcast. I don't know think you're going to invite me to your MSNBC show or quote me or invite any of my colleagues. And I'm not trying to diss you in any way. It's the machine, it's the corporation that doesn't want to get sued and they're afraid.

Joy Reid (36:49)

Well, I can speak absolutely about what was MSNBC and is now Ms. Now that I tried, doctor, trust me, I tried. And they were not enthusiastic about me having you on either of the shows. Let's be clear about that. I'm going to give you the lap. But you're absolutely right. Mainstream media doesn't want to touch this because, you know, and they have a standards and practices department. They have to protect themselves. But they don't want to speculate about his mental health. It's very frightening to them. Last word to you on this, David K. Johnston. Mary Trump did a really fascinating interview with the Daily Beast in which she talked about the fact that at this stage in what she also agrees with Dr. Johnson is his mental, is his cognitive decline. He's on a cash grab, that the only thing that mattered to their father, to his father, was money and how much money you had is everything. That's all that he cared about. And that at this point all he's doing is snatching and grabbing as much money as he can. What damage do you think he could do in the process of trying to enrich himself and make himself as close to a king as possible?

David K. Johnston (37:53)

Donald is putting us at enormous risk. National security. The Saudi deal to give them the F35 fighter jets, the most expensive fighter jet ever built by a factor of two or three. There's a security agreement between the Saudis and the Chinese. The Chinese desperately want to know how did we build the F35 with all of its capabilities? To think that the Saudis are not going to cooperate with the Chinese military, I think is foolish. But even if you're not certain about it, that's not how national security is supposed to work. And so we should not be selling those planes to the Saudis, who are under no threat of any kind that would justify that, at least in my view. He has had meetings where we now know that he gave away secrets. We have a videotape of one of them in audio tape in which he does this. Donald has no understanding of the fundamentals of what the duties are on a president of the United States, states. And we see this especially clearly in his attack on the PSA that you played by the six officers. My law students understand better than Donald Trump does what the Constitution says. And the key thing people should know is that military officers only take an oath to the Constitution. They do not take an oath to follow orders of the president. They should not follow illegal orders from the president. And it's unfortunate that Mike Johnson was able to slip off by not being challenged immediately saying, wait a minute, it's only about illegal orders that they were speaking of. So you have to begin with Donald's appalling ignorance of the world, his lack of regard for anyone but himself, and his seeing the world as you know, I'm the most important person around. I'm special. And the rest of you, unless you're serving me, you're idiots.

Joy Reid (39:47)

This is where we are. Dr. John Gardner, please come back often. David K. Johnston, please come back often. I appreciate both of you so much. Have a great weekend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. NBA, before we go, should we play this, this, this, this clip? Jason, Let me see if we have it. Let me see if we have it. Let me see if we have it. This is my favorite clip by General Mark Milley. If we have it, it's a 22. If you have it, let me know. And when you have it, just let me know because it actually is one of my favorite, favorite things. General Mark Milley, I'm a big fan of his. He was Donald Trump's Joint Chiefs of Staff chair back when Trump was president the first time. And this is what he said to graduating members of the United States military after he left office. To a country, we don't take an oath to a tribe. We don't take an oath to a religion. We don't take an oath to a.

David K. Johnston (40:38)

King or a queen or to a tyrant or a dictator. And we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator.

Joy Reid (40:45)

We don't take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution.

David K. Johnston (40:51)

And we take an oath to the idea that it's America and we're willing.

Joy Reid (40:55)

To die to protect it.

David K. Johnston (40:57)

Every soldier, sailor, airman, Marine, guardian, and coast Guardsman, each of us commits our very life to protect and defend that document, regardless of personal price.

Joy Reid (41:11)

That is a war hero, really dressing down the draft dodger president. Let's pay some bills real quick and get a note from one of our sponsors. This podcast is supported by the Defending Our Neighbors Fund. Across the country, immigrants are facing family separation, wrongful detention, and deportation without due process or even access to legal support. In 2024 alone, there were more than 2.5 million immigration court cases without legal representation. That means millions of people were denied the most basic protection that we expect from our justice system, the right to a fair process powered by people like you. The Defending Our Neighbors fund is providing access to life saving legal aid to families in crisis. But they urgently need your help to meet the unprecedented demand. The government is pouring billions of taxpayer dollars into enforcement while slashing funding for legal aid. That makes your support more urgent than ever. Help defend your neighbors and keep families together. Donate now at defendingourneighbors.org. There is a lot that's going on in the country. In addition to what Donald Trump is doing to members of Congress and threatening them, they're also dismantling the Department of Education. That's just the thing that is happening that is actually unconstitutional. And thank you very much, Wonder, wonder doggy for the compliment and the 999 tip. We appreciate that. Thank you so much. The whole show is great. So thank you very much. We appreciate y'. All. But yes, they are deconstructing the Department of Education in this administration, which you actually legally cannot do without Congress. That's what they're doing. They're doing it because no one is stopping them because we don't have a Congress that's willing to stand in the way. And joining me now to discuss that is Randy Weingarten, president of the 1.8 million-member AFT, the American Federation of Teachers, which represents teachers, paraprofessionals and school related personnel, higher education faculty and staff, nurses and other healthcare professionals, local, state and federal government employees and early childhood educators. Alongside our friend Randy is Rick Lucas, Ohio Nurses association president and executive director nurse at Ohio State University Wexner Medical center, who's been a critical care nurse for more than 20 years. Thank you both for being here. I want to start with you first, Randy, just on this notion that the regime is dismantling the Department of Education. And what will that mean?

Randy Weingarten (43:59)

So we already have evidence of what it means.

Joy Reid (44:02)

Joy.

Randy Weingarten (44:02)

First off, Joy, thank you for having us on. Rick is an amazing leader. So I love being on with Rick. But, you know, we already have evidence that it means exactly not what they are saying and promising because already so what they did is basically they're dismembering the Department of Education and it's kind of like selling it to other agencies for parts. So they're taking, let me, you know, sorry to be so detailed about this they're taking all the. All the things that normally are done for children like Pre k to 12, all the things that we call the titles of the Office of Elementary and Secondary Education. And they're giving that to the Labor Department. They're also taking all the things. I want to see where your eyes go when I say this one. All the things that deal with kids with disabilities, including autism. And they're giving that to Robert Kennedy. Oh, no, the kids. The kids who actually need special ed services. Because we have a lot of evidence of how to actually help kids who are on the spectrum lead productive lives. Giving it to the person who doesn't think kids with autism can lead productive lives.

Joy Reid (45:31)

So, like, it's a eugenicist move. I mean, he's effectively a eugenicist.

Randy Weingarten (45:35)

I mean, it's just. It's so.

Joy Reid (45:38)

That one.

Randy Weingarten (45:38)

So unbelievable that it got no play. I know that special needs parents are going, you know, because what did they do then? They do the stuff about vaccines and autism, so that becomes the thing that people talk about. But we already have evidence this week that this move is a fraud that is actually meant to basically just dismantle any education services that the government does for kids. That's why I keep saying it's an abandonment of young people. It's not bringing it to the states. It's just an abandonment of the federal role for young people. When I say we already have evidence, because this week there was testimony in the Congress because they moved career and tech ed. Okay, you could kind of see why they would move career and tech ed to the Labor Department Pathways workforce. You know, in a normal administration, as much as the educators may not like it, you could kind of see that. But so they did that. And this week we heard what a dismal failure it is. There was testimony in the Congress about how the CTE programs, which are, frankly, some of the most important ways that we can help kids be engaged for the future. 40% of our kids who graduate from high school don't go to college. These career tech ed programs are golden, really important, and they've made it a mess. So essentially something that probably they could have done, they made a mess. They have no way. They have no idea in the Labor Department how to do title one, how to actually get money to Mississippi for reading programs. So it's essentially an abdication of total responsibility. And they're hoping that they just dismember it so much before the courts can weigh in or before a new administration, so that there's no federal role that's why I call it an abandonment of our future and an abandonment of kids. And let me just say one more thing. You see this pattern in practice because look at what happened with snap. They didn't have to cut SNAP during a shutdown, but they did. And who is disproportionately affected? Children. Think about Medicaid. Medicaid. Trillion dollars of Medicaid cuts. Who does that affect children? The total bollocksing up of the student loan program. Who does that affect young people? So, so they really, it's not just that they want, you know, states to run schools, which states and localities already do. It's just they want, they're abandoning any responsibility for our future or for children.

Joy Reid (48:35)

Yeah. And of course, with snap, note that they are in many cases forcing people to reapply for snap because they're essentially dismantling it. They use the shutdown as an opportunity to basically kind of end snap.

Randy Weingarten (48:48)

Exactly.

Joy Reid (48:48)

They don't even believe that people should be able to get food if they aren't rich. Let me go bring you in here. Rick, before I read this little piece here, do you want to comment on the part of it in which kids with autism are now going to be under the auspices of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Just as a, as a, as a nurse? What do you make of that? I think you're on mute.

Devin (49:11)

You know, it's really frightening.

Joy Reid (49:15)

Go ahead.

Devin (49:15)

It's really frightening that he would have anything to do with the health and welfare of our children. You know, pushing crazy notions that Tylenol causes autism. And, and really, the way that he frames it, he frames it like kids with autism are a problem. And that is, that is so wrong. They're part of our society and we need to support them. And we don't need some deranged monster that's gonna, that's going to attack them.

Joy Reid (49:38)

Every time he turns around the other thing that they're doing. And I'm going to read a little bit from this story that's in the, in the independent. The nursing occupation itself has now been excluded by definition as a professional degree by what's left of the Department of Education. The decision is part of the sweeping cuts to student loans overseen by Education Secretary, the former lady from WWE, Linda McMahon, laid out in Donald Trump's one big beautiful bill act again, this is that same bill, y', all, that made the tax cut for billionaires permanent by eating a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. It also did this. Your thoughts about the deprofessionalization of nursing.

Devin (50:23)

But you know, we're not surprised that the professions that are rooted in caring are being diminished by this administration. Nurses show up every day and we care for our patients regardless of their race, their sexual identity, their background, their immigration status. And we see that these are the folks that this administration targets. So we're not surprised that we step into that profession and we provide care to folks that.

Joy Reid (50:55)

Are now.

Devin (50:59)

Under, under attack, you know, insult from this. This is going to affect access to care in rural areas. It's going to affect communities of color, low income communities, because it's going to affect the number of providers that are available. And so this is wrong on a.

Joy Reid (51:16)

Lot of levels, right? I mean, there are a lot of places where there's no doctor available, where the nurses provide the bulk of care. If you've ever been to an error, you know, you're seeing a nurse, nurse for hours before you ever see a doctor. There'll be one doctor on call. And like all of the rest of your care is nurses. Nurses do the bulk of care. But to stay with you for just one moment, Rick, I see in this some of their anger at immigration playing itself out, because at least in my experience, a lot of nurses are Caribbean, a lot of nurses are black, or they are from Pakistan, they're from India, they're from Latin America. You see where I'm going, a lot of nurses are people of color. And the idea of stripping away the ability of immigrants of color to come in, a lot of whom go into the nursing profession, that feels like a secondary attack here. And that's part of the reason they're doing this. What do you make of that?

Devin (52:15)

Yeah, we definitely have a lot of diversity among our nursing workforce and that's necessary to make sure that we provide good care to the communities that we serve. And so that's, you know, another thing that's not surprising that makes us a target of this administration. And we're, we're also looking at advanced practice providers. And so this is not only going to affect people in the hospital, this is going to affect people out in the community their ability to access, you know, primary care, preventative care. It's also, you know, we have an aging nursing workforce because of the violence and the, and the short staffing that we face every day at the bedside. You know, there are folks that need to escape that environment. And so taking away the, the federal funding so people can, can go back to school and, and find other career pathways. So there's a lot of damage that this federal, that, that the Trump administration is Inflicting through this unnecessary change. Change. This isn't necessary. This is a very cruel decision.

Randy Weingarten (53:15)

And remember, Joy, they expanded the student debt relief programs so that that new ICE agents would have student debt relief while they are actually restricting people who are in various different of the caring professions by where they work or what. They're professionals.

Joy Reid (53:45)

Right. And it's not clear that those ICE agents are even getting this supposed to normally, but you're absolutely right. They're giving bonuses to people to join ICE while, you know, stripping everyone else of their students and also giving them.

Randy Weingarten (53:58)

Not just bonuses, but saying they're going to pay for their student debt.

Joy Reid (54:02)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it feels to me the same way that I asked Rick. I'll ask you the same question, Randy, that this is an ideological attack. Obviously, the right has never liked the Department of Education since President Carter signed it into law. They've never liked it because they view it as just a coven of liberal women who are trying to make their children empathetic and woke, which they despise. Empathy. And they feel that there's this conspiracy of liberal teachers to make children, you know, love inclusion. Ooh, horrible. And this is why they want to get rid of it. Right? Like this is just an attempt to get rid of it so that they can go back to segregated schools. Right wing indoctrination, you know, making kids read the Bible all day. Apparently not the parts that are violent or whatever. But yeah, isn't that what this is about?

Randy Weingarten (54:53)

Well, I actually think it's worse than that. I actually think what's happened is they are taking on pluralism as we know it. Look, you and I have had these long talks before. The erasure is obvious to erase. Essentially they're trying to erase the role that women, people of color have had and have struggled to have since at the end of World War II, since the ascent of the civil rights movement, since Brown versus Board. I actually would also include Plyler versus Doe, which is how undocumented children have a right to education. As Cheryl and Ifill reminded me a few days ago, the 14th Amendment doesn't say citizens, it says persons. So one, it's to the erasure of all the struggle and the rights people like you, people like me have been able to get. But secondly, it is actually taking aim when they go after and undermine empathy, diversity, inclusion. These are the habits of democracy. And what schools do is that they are the hotbed of democracy. That is where you learn the habits of democracy, the muscle of democracy. Think about kids coming into a classroom the first Day. No teacher I know says, okay, you sit to the right. If your parents are Republican, you sit to the left. Your parents are. Nobody does that. We take a diverse group of kids and we bring them together and we try to create a society around them. And that society, that habit of working with each other, knowing each other, even when you disagree, dealing with conflict, that's part of the foundation stone of democracy. That's what they wanted. That's what they want to disappear. That's what they want to take away.

Joy Reid (56:51)

Never trust people who hate Sesame Street. I think that is a golden rule. If you don't like Sesame Street, I don't trust you. And these people hate and despise Sesame street because there's diverse Muppets on it and they cannot stand it. Randy Weingarten, Rick Lucas, thank you all very much. I hope there's going to be some serious litigation going on around this because we cannot sit back and allow this to happen. Spoiler alert.

Randy Weingarten (57:13)

Monday.

Joy Reid (57:14)

Monday. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Don't give. Spoiler alert. Tell us what it is. Go on, lay it out.

Randy Weingarten (57:18)

Spoiler alert. We have a case already, and we're working on the papers amending it to resubmit, and that will happen Monday or Tuesday.

Joy Reid (57:27)

And, Rick, from your organization, any chance of litigation overstripping nurses of the ability, because if you take away that professionalization, it makes it hard for people to get student loans.

Devin (57:41)

Well, you know, right now we're working to call out Senators Houston and Moreno to fight back against these. These callous cuts. And we'll work with Randy and aft with any litigation.

Joy Reid (57:53)

Okay, well, we're going to keep our eyes peeled for those lawsuits. Come back and let us know how those are going. Randy, you know where to reach us. Reach out anytime. Y' all, let us know what's going on with this. Thank you very much.

Randy Weingarten (58:04)

Thank you.

Joy Reid (58:05)

Thank you very much. And this is your periodic reminder that when the United States began, there was no right to an education. Most kids, black and white, obviously, black kids were not allowed to even read. Black people, it was illegal for them to read because they were so afraid of revolution. They were afraid that people were going to try to overthrow the slave system. But white kids didn't go to school either. It was until Reconstruction that you had widespread free education, public education, even for white children. Most white children didn't even go to school. They also worked on farms. And so the idea that Reconstruction was this sort of second revolution that broadly spread free public school education eventually funded through property taxes, like this is like a relatively New thing in America. And the right has never liked it. And they definitely hate the Department of Education because they don't want any federal intervention in education. And remember, the federal government, through the Department of Education, does not administer education in schools. That's still a local issue. It's administered by your school board and by your city and by your state. What the federal government does is they provide assistance to disabled children. That's going to get wiped away without the Department of Ed. You heard that there are these programs for education for people who want to learn, sort of an industrial education. They provide resources for that. That's now going to get shunted into the Department of Labor. But disabled kids are the main beneficiaries of the Department of Education. And they also do Title nine to make sure that girls have equal access. Those are the things that the Right wants to get rid of. This is all in Project 2025. And by the way, let me stop and thank Kathy. Kathy Enpetter. Am I pronouncing it right? Kathy Len Pintner, 7855 with the you are amazing. And a 20 tip in the tail. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you, my friend. But yeah, this is scary stuff. The Right is attempting to dismantle everything that was created in the 20th century because they believe the 20th century was an abomination. They call the 20th century the American century. But the Right considers it an abomination because during the 20th century, and I've said this before, and I'll say it again, we got the income tax, we got labor rights, women got the right to vote. We got the New Deal and a broadening of the middle class. Women left the home white women and started working and earning their own money. And then they got the right to birth control and then they got the right to abortion. We got disabled rights, the American for Disabilities act. Right. Women got the right to open their own bank accounts. Not until 1974, they couldn't even do it. When they got Roe v. Wade, they still couldn't get a bank account. You get an abortion without a bank account. In the 1973, you suddenly got. It was the beginning of the queer rights movement. The gay rights movement began in the 20th century. Everything they think is bad. And we got desegregation. And they fought desegregation like nothing else. They fought Brown versus Board of Education harder than anything they've ever fought and then covered up that fight by switching artificially to fighting Roe v. Wade when they actually didn't care about that. They never cared about that. Until they lost the ability to have segregated schools. Suddenly the right decided, oh, let's fight abortion. And when the parties switch sides, you now have a Republican Party that again, only cares about two things, zeroing out taxes on the wealthy, zeroing out regulation. And they also want back the pre 20th century world because in the pre 20th century world, you could earn unlimited money. In the Gilded Age, no taxes and you could have. Segregation is where we're going. We're going to talk about that more. Welcome to hour two of the Joy Reid Show. Big up to everyone in the chat. And yes, a reminder series D2A, reminding those in the chat that married women, married women could not get birth control without their husband's permission. Marital rape laws were not repealed until the early 20s, until I think the late 1990s, those were not repealed. Yeah, the world was kind of crap before the 21st century. It was tough. We have a, we are never going back from Raymond A. Jackson 189. That's absolutely right. See, that's the problem that they're having is that the 20th century was good for progress and the 21st century has been even better for progress. We got Obamacare, which was an expansion of Medicaid. We strengthened programs like Social Security. They survived Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and all the previous attempts to dismantle them. And if you think we're going to go back to the 19th century, you really haven't met black people, brown people and women and Asian Americans. Remember, there was an Asian Exclusion act in the early 20th century. 20th century, early 20th century. But by the 1960s, the Asian Exclusion act was repealed in the 1965 Immigration act that produced more brown immigration. So if you think we're going back now, y' all don't know. Y' all don't know us. Trump is, you know, and he and Project 2025, they got so aggressive. I talked about this in my Live with Wajahat Ali earlier today. They got so greedy and aggressive, they snatched all the money. 4.7 trillion in tax cuts, complete deregulation, oil drilling everywhere. They're threatening to drill off California and Florida, drilling in Alaska. They got so greedy. Crypto money, massive trillion dollar wealth for all their billionaire friends. They got so aggressive that they forgot about Donald Trump's core promise, which was lowering the cost of things. Well, not doing that is having a bad impact on his pulse. Here's Harry Enton from CNN emoting about that.

Pete Hegseth (63:34)

Yeah, John Berman, I would say this is probably the worst 10 day period for the president in the polls. His entire second term. The numbers are just atrocious. What are we talking about here in terms of net approval rating? Well, take a look. These are all November polls. The best one of the group puts him at 14 points underwater. That's the Marquette University Law School poll, tied for the worst he's ever had in that poll. Fox, 17 points underwater. Maris, 17 points underwater. The Reuters Ipsos poll, 22 points underwater. And then taking the cake, the AP North Pole, 26 points underwater. When your best poll has you still 14 points underwater, you know it's truly bad. And it's as bad as 26 points underwater. We're talking about an average. Well, well, well, underwater with the deep blue sea, swimming with the fishes.

Joy Reid (64:24)

And now this is all parties here. If you think this is bad, Harry.

Pete Hegseth (64:28)

If you think this is bad, what is driving these horrific numbers for Donald Trump? Well, why don't we take a look at independence? Trump's net approval rating with Independence back in January, he was close to even. He was at minus four points. Not great, but not terrible. Look at this number. 43 points underwater with Independence. In the most recent average of these polls, when you have 43 points underwater with Independence, you know you're doing terribly. You can't win with this. If this holds for next year's midterm election wave. Adios, amigos. Goodbye, see you later. To that House Republican majority and that Senate Republican majority very much in danger as well. When you take a look at the Pew Research validated voter survey, going back to last year, he was basically even among independents with Kamala Harris. Now he is 43 points underwater. Whatever he is doing with Independence, independents, it ain't working. They despise him at this.

Joy Reid (65:24)

That is just a colossal.

Pete Hegseth (65:25)

Oh, my God. It's a 40 point move.

Joy Reid (65:27)

Okay, that's among certain political groups. How about what issues may be driving? Okay, yes, no, keep going. I'm sorry.

Pete Hegseth (65:33)

We say that Independents are driving Trump's decline overall. But what is pushing independents and the rest of the electorate away from Donald Trump? Away from Donald Trump. John Berman, move out of this screen. Away from Donald Trump. Well, I. It has everything to do with inflation. It's the cost of living, baby. That is the name of the game. You go back to January, he was three points above water. This was the reason why that voters gave him a second term. You look at this, look at this now. 34 points underwater. My goodness gracious. That is a 37 point move in the wrong, wrong direction.

Joy Reid (66:07)

Out. All right, all right, let's leave it there. First of all. I love how emotional Harry incident is. He's emotional. Kornacki. Kornacki is calm compared to Harry into. I really actually, I enjoy him a lot. And somebody RLP said he doesn't care about the polls. Yes, he does. I wrote a whole Trump book. I'm telling you right now. He reads them every minute of every day. He cares about them. He gets very emotional about them. Trump is a needy, needy, needy bitch. He needs love, he needs approval. That's why he's yelling and screaming at women who are asking him questions about Epstein files. Cuz it freaks him out that people won't stop talking about it because he's needy. He's needy. Yes, please do subscribe and share. Thank you very much. And I am hopefully on fire. But this is why he's freaking out. Let me play you from the campaign trail what Donald Trump promised he was going to do because again, he didn't keep that major promise about lowering prices, which is why he's so vulnerable and why he's 42, 43 points under. But he also promised this. Here's.

Donald Trump (67:09)

I did, I did a lot of it.

Joy Reid (67:10)

Would you declassify the Epstein files?

Donald Trump (67:13)

Yeah, yeah, I would.

Pete Hegseth (67:15)

All right.

Donald Trump (67:15)

I guess I would. I think that less so because, you know, you don't know it. You don't want to affect people's lives if it's funny stuff in there because there's a lot of phony stuff with that whole world. But I think I would.

Joy Reid (67:27)

Oh, you think you would?

David K. Johnston (67:28)

You think?

Joy Reid (67:28)

Oh, it's a lot of, you know, he does a little software, you know, I think I would. But there's a lot of phony. What phony stuff is in there? Trump. And now Donald Trump is pushing this so called peace deal, which is mad sketch. It's super, super suspicious. Now I want to take you guys back. I want to take you guys back. When Donald Trump in one of the many presidential debates was asked a very specific question and could not answer it. This is C3.

David K. Johnston (67:55)

You want Ukraine to win this war?

Donald Trump (67:58)

I want the war to stop.

Joy Reid (67:59)

Oh, okay. I want the war to stop. That's not. I want Ukraine to win. And he, he does the very demure voice as the chat is describing it intolerably. Me says it's a demure voice. He does. I call it the Marilyn Monroe voice. Trump goes into the Marilyn Monroe soft. He speaks like this and he speaks like this and he does this sort of soft voice, which I'm not sure what that's about, but it's like he's he thinks he's like an old star from like the vaudeville era. And he does this like soft voice. It's very odd. I wonder if he used that voice with Bubba. Jason. Oh, wait, I didn't get a sound effect. I wonder if he used that voice with Bubba. See, I tried to elicit a sound fun because he does like a funny, sad, a funny, funny sass. I don't know what that you call that voice, but. Oh, look at that. $50 in the till from Vanessa German. Thank you very much. And with a dancing green. It looks kind of like a. The. It's like a snow bunny. A snow baby. The snow baby. Thank you very much. We appreciate that. That's very generous. Thank you very much. MAGA is only a political movement on the surface. It's a coordinated anti constitutionalist, highly funded attack on the United States as Joseph Chamberlain. And I agree with you on that. It is. That is absolutely true. You are not wrong about that. And thank you for the five dollar tip. But yeah, Donald Trump clearly is freaked out by a specific set of things. He's freaked out by his poll numbers. That is very true because he's constantly lying about them and saying he's at the highest poll numbers ever. That's how you know he cares about them. He's constantly lying about them. Number two, he's freaked out about not being praised. He gets very angry. He wants Nobel Peace Prize. He wants to be praised. He wants the media to tell him he's great, he needs to be patted on the head by the media. It's not happening. He gets very freaked out by it. He's very freaked out by the Epstein files. Something about the Epstein files, we don't know what that is as yet, but something about the Epstein files terrifies Donald Trump. He's terrified of it. It's very clear. He's afraid of what's in the Epstein files. And he's also seemingly egged out by Russia. Every time he brings up Russia, Russia, Russia, something about the scandals of his coordination with Russia in 2016, the fact that he shared polling data with Russia, the fact that it seemed like Bannon and other people in his campaign were in touch with Russia. A lot about this is very strange. Right? And now the question is on Ukraine, why would he put forward a so called peace plan which Zelensky has said is forcing his country to choose between its dignity and losing a key ally, namely the United States? Now, this deal that the Trump regime has put forward for attempting to get international approval, it gives Putin everything he Asked for everything. He wants huge chunks of Ukraine, including parts of Ukraine that Ukrainian forces are currently controlling. So not just the Donbas region, which is the eastern part of Ukraine, that Putin in his sick mind believes still should be part of Russia, not just Crimea, which he took in 2014, which is that coastal part of Ukraine in the south. No, he wants to. Trump wants to give him more parts of Ukraine, parts of Ukraine he does not even control. Yet. This so called peace deal would also. It would ban Ukraine from ever joining NATO, ever. It would ban them from ever applying to be a part of NATO, which is something that Putin wants. It would allow Russia back into the G8. Remember, Trump used to complain all the time about why Russia was kicked out of the Group of Eight nations, which is the sort of superpower like mini big boys club that deals with world issues. He was kicked out because he invaded Ukraine. That's why he was booted out. And also the war crimes he committed in attacking Ukraine. Kidnapping hundreds and hundreds of Ukrainian children, bombing cities, treating cities in Ukraine the way Bibi Netanyahu has treated Gaza, doing the exact same thing, bombing schools. He bombed a music school when I was working back in. He's a war criminal because of it. But now it would let him back into the sort of normal nations, let them back in the G8, and it would drop sanctions, basically total victory. It would be everything Putin could have possibly wanted. It is as if Putin himself wrote the deal. So the question then becomes, why is Trump doing that? And why is he demanding that Volodymyr Zelensky quickly approve it before Thanksgiving, which is literally next Thursday? He's given them the short deadline and he's demanding it. And why is the deal so much like what Putin would write? It's weird, right? It's odd. Now, earlier today, I did a live. I do my Friday lives with my friend Wajahat Ali. Waj and I, we call it duty to. I call it duty to troll because we go on and we have a really good time trolling the right Maga. People get mad. Fox picks up the video. They get pissed off, they get pissed off. They put out of context clips and they get really pissed off. But today, on the left hook with our live Lev Parnas joined and he had some tea about why this deal is going down the way it is. Because, you know, he's got his ear to the ground. You know, we love us some left Parnas. And you know what? Just like a genie, when you, when you, when you rub the lamp, Left Parnas is here now here he is, Lev Parnas. How are you, my friend?

Lev Parnas (73:42)

How are you? Doing great. Thank you for having me. You're incredible.

Joy Reid (73:45)

Thank you. So just lay it out for us, my friend. Why is Donald Trump giving? And just let me know if I've been just misdescribed this deal. Anyway, it sounds like Putin wrote the deal. Why is he doing it?

Lev Parnas (73:57)

Well, first of all, Putin did write the deal. This deal came to the United States in October, actually was delivered hand verbally and delivered by Kirill Dmitriev, who is Putin's basically right hand guy. He was here at the time to meet with Anna Paula Luna, the congresswoman from Florida. They were talking about trade. But then he also flew to Miami and met with Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff. And in that meeting it was discussed basically about how they gave him the plan, this 28 point plan to stop, you know, which was given before. But also they gave him some compromise information, some pictures, some video about some corruption that supposedly is taking place in Zelensky's sphere for them to start looking into. He also mentioned and reminded Woodcraft about, and as I always say, it always goes back to Epstein, that reminded Wyckoff to remind Trump that they still have all that compromise from the Epstein stuff. And basically you saw Trump go into action and you saw now he gave Zelensky an ultimatum by Thursday that if they don't accept this deal that we will stop sharing intelligence with them and not only not giving weapon, but we'll stop sharing intelligence with Ukraine and basically cut off all today. He said don't have to continue fighting. Basically.

Joy Reid (75:35)

Just to back up for those of you who are not familiar with some of these characters. So Steve Witkoff is, he's a real estate developer, friend of Trump, founder of the Witkoff Group, and he's Trump's sort of emissary to the Middle east. And that's the job that he's been given. Obviously, we know Jared Kushner is. Let's go back for a second. You're saying that Putin has let Trump know and I'm assuming he did so when he came to Alaska, Right? When they had their, when he came to the US and they had their meeting and he went to the White House and all that, and he was sort of Trump gave him the red carpet treatment. Did he, at that point, to your knowledge, deliver to Donald Trump in person the warning, hey, we've got compromise on you and we'd like to offer you compromise on Zelensky's administration so you can use it. But you need to do the deal the way I want.

Lev Parnas (76:24)

It actually even happened earlier. This goes back to 2017, when a lot of people don't realize when the relationship formulated between Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff, and Kirill Dmitry, of Kirill Dmitry. And it was so happened to be in Saudi Arabia at the summit because Kirill Dimitriev at the time was running the sovereign wealth fund for Russia, and they met there. And since there, the communications have been going on and continue even when Trump was out of office and when the real compromise was given to Trump told him about was back in 2018, right before Trump was going to meet with Putin at Helsinki, if you remember.

Joy Reid (77:12)

And that was the time, by the way, when you had Jeffrey Epstein email head and saying, hey, if you want to know how to deal with the.

Lev Parnas (77:20)

Russians, go on 100 connecting the dots. That's exactly now we're starting to see now. There was the same exact time Epstein was already speaking to the Russians. And he's already, prior to that, was in major contact with Victor Churchin. For those of you that don't know who that is, that was the ambassador from Russia to United Nations. And Epstein, in those emails that we've seen already uncovered, was talking about how he's given them enough information to take Trump down. The other interesting part that I'm hearing from my source is that it's not just Epstein that was giving information to the Russians. You also had Steve Bannon that was also leaking information to the Russians and others. And that is why Trump is trying to hold back these Epstein files. Another reason, it's one of the main reasons, not only because of the. All the pedophilia that he's protecting, all the donors that he's protecting, but also the actual trail of compromise and relationship that Russia has over him to open up and basically break his whole story. Because, Joy, you know, everything he's been trying to do is rewrite history is to try, starting from 2016, that Russia didn't help him win the election. Russia was never involved. It's always been trying to distance himself from that. And that's why he's scared that if the Epstein files come out truly the way, not only will everything else come out, but it'll also come out all the compromise that Russia has at him.

Joy Reid (78:53)

And so this brings so much together. And again, we have to say these are all allegations. We're gonna. We're gonna put that caveat there because we're waiting to see if any of this ever gets adjudicated in a court of law. But I think about now the fact that Donald Trump is so absolutely obsessed with still erasing, as you said, this is clear. We don't even need evidence because he says it all the time, erasing this idea that Russia helped him get elected in 2016. He keeps saying, Russia, Russia, Russia. He's now called the Epstein thing a quote, unquote hoax and said it's Russia, Russia, Russia all over again. When I put that together with the fact that he has now ordered John Bolton, his former national security advisor, to be indicted over allegedly mishandling class classified documents, something he did, and that he's also specifically gone after James Comey, who investigated Russiagate, fired James Comey's daughter, who investigated Puffy and prosecute not. But not just investigated, prosecuted Puffy for sexual crimes. It's starting. And also prosecuted Ghislaine Maxwell. And so what you're now looking like is that you've got a financial sexual web of links that go back to three countries that I've been able to tell live. The United States, Israel, Russia, and I'll add a fourth, the UK 100.

Lev Parnas (80:17)

And there's some other countries that I don't want to talk about right now that I'm verified. Yeah, well, Saudi Arabia, definitely. You got Saudi Arabia, you got Israel, you got Russia. And the other thing that's also interesting that everybody needs to understand is in the Epstein files, the certain people we don't hear, we hear about Democrats, Republicans, we hear about Prince Andrews, we hear about all these powerful people, but you never hear anybody about Russian oligarchs. And that's another thing that we need to take into account because there's a lot of, during that time, Epstein had tremendous connections with the Russians. I'm also hearing that there was also honeypot, there was Russian women that were sent to Epstein that Epstein used to introduce to other powerful people, not underage, but actual, you know, Russian women that were working for Russian intelligence at the time also. So there's more to these Epstein files that meets the eye that we need to keep our eye on. And that reflects to why he's doing what he's doing with the Saudi Arabia, why he's doing what he's doing with Russia, Ukraine, why he acted the way he did with the Middle east with Benjamin Netanyahu. Because, and I wrote about it in my substack, the axis of either, the new axis of power, of evil is Netanyahu, Putin and Trump. And they're the ones that are leading the national stage, which is very, very dangerous.

Joy Reid (81:46)

I mean, the thing about it is these men are enriching themselves. On the one hand, they're becoming. And they're allowing their donors to become trillionaires, and they're sort of enriching the people around them. But it sounds to me like they're all being puppeteered in a way, too, by the kompromat that Jeffrey Epstein left behind.

Lev Parnas (82:04)

Absolutely. That's the crazy part. That's. That's. And they're all. And that's why Trump is trying to hide it so much, because there is so much power and not. And it's not just Jeffrey Epstein, it's also others that Jeffrey Epstein was talking to. And you're seeing some of the names start coming out. A lot of these people were working with Russians, and some of them were even unaware of it, that they were working with agents and stuff like that, bragging and talking. But what I'm hearing is that specifically through Epstein and others, Russia was able to infiltrate Trump's world in a very big way. The other thing also is, don't forget Melania Trump is very desperately trying to hide the relationship that is actually Melania's past. That's another thing. He's trying to really scrub. Scrub with the Epstein files.

Joy Reid (82:59)

So there is a. Yeah, there. There is a gentleman that it. That works with Donald Trump, who is the actual person who introduced Melania and Donald Trump, at least according to public records. And his wife is a Brazilian. Former wife is a Brazilian model. There's a whole story there that I want to get into at some point, but there's this whole circle of men who all were in the modeling world. The John Casablancas, the Jean Blue, Jean Luca Brunels. And it seems that Trump was part of this group of men, many of whom were either in that world or close to it. Les Wexner, who owned Victoria's Secret. You know, it just seems like a whole web of horny men who had a lot of money and a lot of really young women and in some cases, girls. But it's all kind of one big ring.

Lev Parnas (83:46)

The other interesting part that, you know, I'm hearing, you know, not verified, but I'm hearing very, you know, rumbling about is all these. Most of these men that you mentioned have either been indicted or have been, you know, accused of sexual predatory actions, correct? Yes, most of them. Okay. Except for Donald Trump.

Dr. John Gartner (84:08)

And there.

Lev Parnas (84:08)

And then you see in the email with Epstein and Maxwell where he's talking about, you know, why isn't Trump being, you know, the dog that doesn't bark type of thing? Well, there's talk about Trump working with the authorities in different places, not only in New Jersey when he used to own his casinos, but also during these modeling agencies. And that's why he was able to get away with a lot of the stuff that a lot of these people around him in his circles kept going down. And that's another thing that he's trying to cover up a lot of his past.

Joy Reid (84:42)

And by the way, just to make it even more interesting, the home, the house that supposedly was the source of Donald Trump's breach with Jeffrey Epstein, this house that a friend of Jeffrey Epstein's, according to the emails, was putting up for $36 million because he was broke. The Donald Trump swooped in, bought it first and then sold it to a Russian oligarch.

Lev Parnas (85:06)

Absolutely 100%. And also you have to understand Donald Trump and Steve Witkoff, that's the very important part. That's why Steve Wyckoff is involved in a lot of stuff in the 90s were a part of all of most of this Russian money that basically was laundered through most of these, not only Trump, but a lot of these real estate properties. And also one thing you said extremely right, Joy, that is very important about the oligarchy. Trump also learned from Putin how what Putin did in the 90s is when the Soviet Union went down, he turned his minions, made them oligarchs, gave them the money, sent them out to the world and said invest, buy up all everything, get yourself intertwined into world control to be able to have control. Trump's doing the same thing now, as you can see. He's taking all of these tech bros and all of these crypto bros and taking him with him when he's going to the Saudi summits, when he's going to traveling around the world. He's as he's talking, they're behind, following along, doing business and intertwining. And it's basically Trump trying to get his hands in all over the world in different just, you know, like Putin did with his oligo.

Joy Reid (86:24)

So exit question to you, Lev. You are from, you were born in Ukraine and you obviously know the country well. What would befall Ukraine if this deal were to go through? What would happen to Ukrainians?

Lev Parnas (86:39)

Well, you know, it's sad to say there would be no Ukraine. It would eventually be part of the Soviet Union, which is what Putin wants to bring back. And you know, next would be Poland and other countries. So. But I could tell you this, Joy, that they are as bad as this is for the past 10 months since Trump has come into office, he has stopped all aid to Ukraine. Not only has he not given aid, but he stopped aid that the Biden administration's given. He has been helping Putin out. He's done everything he could to disrupt NATO going back and forth. And I could tell you Ukraine is standing strong, even though, yes, people are dying and Russia is doing terrorist acts by hitting civilian properties. But as far as the war goes, Russia is not advancing. And this is one of the reasons why Putin gave this ultimatum and is making Trump push so hard on Zelensky is because Russia right now is in a stalemate, and they're actually losing. So Ukraine is. The Ukrainian people are standing strong with the support. They know that America, the world supports them. They're fighting for not only their liberty, but for the world liberty. And I could tell you they don't care about Donald Trump.

Joy Reid (87:52)

Well, I will throw in a Slava Ukraine to say that. Absolutely, absolutely. Zelensky's a bad man. I. I have great respect for that guy. So God bless. Thank you. Appreciate you left Parnas. Come back often.

Lev Parnas (88:08)

Thank you, Joy.

Joy Reid (88:08)

Take care. Thank you very much. Yeah, we got to stand with Ukraine because Ukraine is standing up to them bullies, man. They are standing up to those bullies. All right, let's move on to our next topic here, because we're going Fast and furious on this Friday. The chats are really live. Y' all are out here saying all the things, saying all the things appreciated. People are appreciating Lev. So let's go on to the next topic here. We have seen just literally sheer terrorism erupting across this country. I want to show you all one of the latest, earliest video shows federal agents forced their way to a queen's.

Pete Hegseth (88:42)

Apartment, pointing a gun at a mother.

Donald Trump (88:45)

And her four kids.

Joy Reid (88:46)

Stupid. Come out, my baby. Come out here.

Pete Hegseth (88:50)

J new's Chris Jose explains why that.

Donald Trump (88:52)

Family says the agents shouldn't have been.

Pete Hegseth (88:54)

There in the first place.

Dr. John Gartner (88:58)

Dramatic video of a frantic mother in a bedroom, her children by her side.

Joy Reid (89:05)

The confrontation with a man who appears to be a federal agent took place.

Dr. John Gartner (89:09)

Last Thursday at East Elmhurst, Queens. Ron Kuby is a civil rights attorney representing the family.

Joy Reid (89:15)

They break down the door with a battering ram. They hold the entire family at gunpoint.

Dr. John Gartner (89:20)

Surveillance video shows a group in tactical gear forced their way into the home.

Joy Reid (89:25)

One man noticing a camera, flipping it around.

Dr. John Gartner (89:28)

Kuby says the agents were looking for.

Joy Reid (89:30)

His client's cousin who hasn't lived there in years. She had his phone number. They forced her her to call Him.

Dr. John Gartner (89:38)

Kubi tells us his client, Jennifer, who.

Joy Reid (89:41)

Doesn'T want us to use her last.

Dr. John Gartner (89:42)

Name, has lawful status. Her kids were born in the United States.

Joy Reid (89:46)

They terrorized her. They terrorized the children. There was no warrant displayed, no display of any authority. Video shows an NYPD patrol car arriving.

Dr. John Gartner (89:57)

After neighbors thought a robbery was in progress. According to Kubi, the man, believed to be a federal agent, approached the officer's window.

Joy Reid (90:05)

After a brief conversation, the officer drove away.

Dr. John Gartner (90:09)

The NYPD is prohibited by city law.

Joy Reid (90:11)

From engaging in civil immigration enforcement. They pulled a woman out of her bed. The New York Immigration Coalition shared portions.

Dr. John Gartner (90:19)

Of the incident with us. They say the woman and her children, ages 2, 6, 10 and 13, are terrified.

Joy Reid (90:26)

We are truly outraged at the way that this family has been treated. We don't think that any family should be treated this way. A spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security says officers knocked on the door for 20 minutes, adding, ICE and U.S. marshals attempted to serve a criminal arrest warrant for Raymundo Gabriel Herrera Betancourt.

Pete Hegseth (90:47)

His criminal history includes assault, reckless driving.

Joy Reid (90:50)

And illegal re entry. Kubi says his client has lawful status in the United States. Her husband is been here for 24 years. Chris Jose today in New York. And that is what we're seeing in the United States. We're also seeing increasing criminality among the ICE thug army themselves. Yeah, but how could they say they would knock it for 20 minutes while one of them turns the camera away? That's a joke. It's a joke. And also, not only that, but they're supposed to have a judicial warrant to enter your home. Because, remember, we left Britain for this very reason, that we did not believe that you should be able to bust into someone's home without aid. Signed judicial warrant. Not the little fakey fake warrants that ICE are using. They're just literally busting into people's homes at will and forcing their way in and assaulting and harassing people. I read a story earlier today that that woman's little kids are afraid to go home. They're afraid to sleep in their house because they don't know when those bad men are going to come busting in again. They're terrorizing brown people on perfect, on purpose. The United States of apartheid, says one of our folks in the chat. Shantay. 2222. It is apartheid. That is what apartheid looked like, literally. It's also what it looked like when slave patrols used to come for runaway slaves. It literally looked like that, except without the modern gear. If you go back and put yourself back in the 17th and early 18th century. That is what slave patrols look like when they busted into people's hideaways where people were hiding from slave catchers. That's what they look like. We're also seeing more and more evidence that some of the people who were in this little thug army, some of these brown shirt types, are also criminals themselves. Criminals themselves. I'm gonna read from a site called NPR News. I don't have it on screen. We're just gonna read from it. A Twin Cities based employee of Immigration and Customs enforcement is among 16 men arrested on suspicion of soliciting a minor following a sting operation by police in suburban Minneapolis. Alexander Stephen Back, 41, is among four people charged so far with trying to pay a 17 year old girl for sex. Back could also face federal charges, Bloomington Police Chief Booker Hodges said in a news conference on Tuesday. Authorities said that they've submitted evidence against the other 12 men in this ring that they've uncovered to the Hennepin County Attorney's office for possible charges. According to the criminal complaint filed Friday in Hennepin County, Back of Robbinsville responded to a fake online advertisement offering prostitution services. In a text messages to back on November 13, an undercover officer posing as a 17 year old girl named Bella wrote, you okay if I'm a little younger than my ad says? Just want to be honest. Sure. Back allegedly replied, because I am 17 and one guy got hella mad at me. The officer replied after stating for a second time that she was 17. Bella gave back an address in Bloomington where police arrested him and seized his phone. Hodges also said the department partnered on Operation CREEP with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and police from Eden Prairie, Roosevelt and Richfield, Minnesota as well as MSP Airport Police. Back as a civilian employee of Roll tape ice. Take a look at this.

Dr. John Gartner (94:06)

This is a tragedy in many respects.

Joy Reid (94:09)

But.

Dr. John Gartner (94:12)

People at the Department of Homeland Security, I know there are great people.

Joy Reid (94:16)

There that come to work every single day and do their jobs and do it admirably. Unfortunately.

Dr. John Gartner (94:25)

Mr. Recently married back here is not one of those people. He works for ICE and he is.

Joy Reid (94:34)

An auditor for them, a civilian employee.

Dr. John Gartner (94:37)

When he was arrested he said I'm ICE boys. Well you know, unfortunately for him, we locked him up, put him in our.

Joy Reid (94:45)

Jail, he got reappropriated to our jail.

Dr. John Gartner (94:47)

And my understanding is he helped send.

Joy Reid (94:52)

People to send federal authorities.

Dr. John Gartner (94:54)

I think he's going to see some.

Joy Reid (94:55)

Federal authorities because I think the feds.

Dr. John Gartner (94:56)

Are going to take the this case.

Joy Reid (94:58)

There you go. So there you go close on this and I'LL take shames. Meanwhile, he took some questions, but we're not going to keep playing it. Meanwhile, we're seeing a major retreat from the Coast Guard, which had tried to call fake news. They tried to play the fake news card on factual reporting by what's left of the Washington Post that they had tried to change the designation of nooses and swastikas away from being hate symbols and relabeling them as potentially divisive. But here are the receipts you can see highlighted on your screen there that they literally redesignated these things as potentially divisive. If you go to the second page of it, they're saying that you can no longer display potentially divisive materials, but they redesignated them not as hate symbols but as potentially divisive. Joining me now is Kimberly Crenshaw, pioneering legal scholar and executive director of the African American Policy Forum. She serves as the Isadore and Seville Sultzbacher professor of Law at Columbia University and is a distinguished professor of law and also a Promise Institute Chair in Human Rights at ucla. Great resume. Great to see you, Kimberly.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (96:00)

Great to see you, Joy. Thank you for having me.

Joy Reid (96:03)

I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. Let's go through these things in order. The way that Nazi Germany used Jewish people and trans people as a scapegoat for Germans who felt emasculated by the end of World War I and the way that that deal was made and they were able to transmit that rage onto Jewish people and trans people and gay people. Trump did the same thing. Maggie did the same thing with immigrants. And they've got people hating brown and immigrants so much that they're able to abuse them in that way. Talk about how that operates, turning people against DEI and immigrants.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (96:41)

Well, my good friend and colleague Jason Stanley has an analysis of of how it is that the descent into fascism always relies on the ability to identify an internal enemy. We've seen it all over the world. It turns out that the United States is following the same pattern of identifying a group that is legitimate to hate, a group who we can suspend all their rights. And once the rights are suspended and the infrastructures to support rights are willingly let go, and then everybody is subject to it. We've seen this play out most immediately, as you've just been watching, with respect to brown people and some black people, one of the things that also is important to understand about that is the very infrastructure that allows for the federal government to go into local communities, to go into states, to kidnap people was actually grounded in the Constitution's protection to slave holders, to be able to extend slavery into the northern states, to go and grab anybody that is accused of being an enslaved person and just kidnapping them to another place. What made that logical, rational and defensible for centuries? It was anti black racism that is structured into the Constitution. So when we see this, and you mentioned it yourself, there are echoes of the Fugitive Slave Act. What made people accept that we lived in a free democracy and at the same time, police, masked people can go in and do these things. What made it make sense was we're afraid of these other people and we don't care about these other people and we don't like them. So we're going to allow the power and authority to exist in the federal government to do that. That's the long arm of anti blackness that is settled into this moment and now undermines the rights of everybody.

Joy Reid (98:48)

Yeah. And note we said Fugitive Slave Acts. There were more than one, and they were written in the Constitution. Literally, it's in the Constitution and that is what we're seeing. But you're also seeing this criminality and this sort of freeborn criminality among people who are then thus empowered. Right. We don't even know if some of these people are legitimately ever. They trained federal agents. Did they go to a class or a school to get their their accreditation? We don't know. But they're saying their ICE and they're just kidnapping anyone they want, beating anyone they want pepper spraying people in the face. And it seems like it's encouraging these people to behave in ways that for me, echo the Klan.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (99:21)

Oh, absolutely. And I mean, that's the other way in which this actually makes sense. When we look at the history of policing, when we look at the ways in which roving bands of individuals who themselves were probably involved in criminality, what we trace that to is the fear of a population that needs to be constrained and contained by these tactics. So there's nothing new under the sun, we all know. And there's nothing new with over policing. There's nothing new with racializing members of our political community to make them legitimate targets of, of all manner of violence. And that targeting then becomes the basis for the dismantling of any protections that anybody can claim to have. That's why we've got to talk about race and racism in a way that frankly, a lot of our progressive friends and allies are uncomfortable. They kind of think that we got to this moment because we were too woke or too focused on identity politics, when in fact this is identity politics. It's other us against them kind of politics. And we can't escape it by failing to talk about it. That that's why we've done the work that we've done. That's why we've done this report.

Joy Reid (100:37)

And let's note that the attacks on critical race theory which you are a part of creating, they would presaged all of this back when I was at Miss now and people were yelling at you and yelling at me for talking about critical race theory and trying to redefine it. Christopher Rufo and others trying to completely make up a new meaning of it. This is what we were warning people about, that when you start with anti black racism and start trying to delete the study of racism and how it is functioned in law, you end up here. I want to pause for one moment to thank Stunner104. I have to say this because somebody 49.99 in the till is actually very generous. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. But let me show you what some, some. Some. What do you call it? You're. They're saying identity politics. Let me show you some. Look, that's identity politics. The Department of Labor saying this is Americans first. And this is just one of about a dozen or more of these ads that to them is a prototypical American. And they call it Project Firewall to make the workforce prepared for the whatever the future. Let's play another. This is D6. Let's show the next one. All of these ads look like this. They're all of white. It looks like these old communist ads from the 1930s or the old 1930s, no worries. But that is identity politics, right? If you're saying what an American is, is that guy.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (101:57)

And let's just go down to the core of the identity politics, the grand oracle of the whole thing, which is the man that sits in the White House. He issued an executive order that is supposedly bringing truth and sanity to our memory and our history. And in it, he basically says that the idea that race is socially constructed, in other words, the idea that race is not biological, the idea that it's not about science, it's about what we do to people, how we create racial inequality by policies and practices. All those ideas he says are improper. So that's improper ideology. Which means that efforts to create equal opportunity, efforts to support support dei, those are all seen as improper because they try to fix a problem that he is now framing as natural. So you just mentioned the bit about the Coast Guard now sort of walking back from understanding how the Swastika is actually part of a negative racial history. Let's look at what's happening, happening on the shelves of the Naval Academy. I know why the caged bird sings. That's taken out. That's improper. What's proper. Mein Kampf. Mein Kampf is still on the shelves of the Naval Academy. That's identity politics. That racist, white supremacist identity politics. And that is the glue that's holding everything the Trump administration is doing together. And we have to have the language to. And the courage to actually call it out and talk about it.

Joy Reid (103:42)

Yeah, Jesse, if you can put up D6 again, I mean, I just want people to look at it again because they're using language that to me, if this is not identity politics, I don't know what is. All these build your homeland's future running off this same AI vision of a white man, a white family, white children. It is very much 14 words. Conservatism as I call it. 14 words being the 14 words of we will, you know, secure the future for white children and white families or whatever the white nationalists say. But these ads from the Department of Labor, which is led by a Latina, by the way, is. It's projecting an image that there's only one. They look like that, and they're doing that across the. Only white men. And also, by the way, Jason reminded me, we still don't have an Equal Rights Amendment because they don't even want women involved. They just want white men.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (104:44)

And let's not talk about how black women are the target that keeps giving. You take an administration that's clearly racist, clearly misogynist, and you put it together and you have misogynoir. And so the attacks on the former vice president, the attacks on the first African American woman, on the Supreme Court, the attacks on Lisa Cook, all of these are possible because of the misogynoir that's already in the culture. And then that becomes the highway through which the entire federal government is dismantled, by which our ability to read and understand what's happening is erased through book bands and the bands on crt. So this is a shock and awe. Flood the zone. Let's throw everything at them and take away their ability to understand that this is repeating history all over again. When we don't fight back or when we think, well, maybe we shouldn't talk about race, we are becoming part of the assault and we can't afford to let these things go down without showing people what is the racism in it. What is the anti blackness in particular that makes Everybody vulnerable. So that's what we're trying to do with anti blackness is the point. It's our report on how racism, misogyny and Donald Trump's assault on equal opportunity is undermining democracy for all of us.

Joy Reid (106:15)

Where do we get that report?

Kimberlé Crenshaw (106:16)

You can get it on our website. Go to www.aapl. it's AAPF for the African American Policy Forum.

Joy Reid (106:27)

AAPF.org we're going to get that report. I'm going to link to it in the substack. Kimberly Crenshaw, always a pleasure. Thank you, my friend.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (106:33)

Thank you, Joy.

Joy Reid (106:34)

Thank you very much. All right, y'. All. Well, let me let y' all know. A lot of people are talking about this in the chat. People are saying, boycott, boycott, boycott. Well, guess what? The National Sick Day is back. And this time it includes saving money and also a block party. It's got a block party. There is a party to the purpose or purpose to the party. You know what I'm saying? And joining me now are Devin and Caress of the People's Sick Day and Mass Blackout Movement. Hello, friends. Hey, thanks for having us back. Good. Y' all are bad. Well, tell us what's happening with National People Sick Day Part deux. Have Caress go first. Ladies first.

Caress (107:15)

Yeah. So we're back. The People Sick Day still the People Sick Day movement.

Joy Reid (107:19)

Right.

Caress (107:19)

But we've now joined forces with a lot with over 75 other coalitions and movements who are all announcing the same dates. As you remember, we only were going to do a three day economic and labor blackout.

Joy Reid (107:32)

Right.

Caress (107:33)

But we've extended that because we know that it takes unity amongst all of us. Right? So that's a big part of how we're where we are today. And gosh, when I tell you we are moving fast, we are moving fast and we're loud. The White House has released a statement about us.

Joy Reid (107:50)

Yeah. Yes, yes.

Caress (107:53)

They said that basically we all have Trump derangement syndrome. And we think that if we think that, you know, telling everyone to stop shopping is heroic when we're gonna hurt small businesses, that we're, we're basically, you know, deranged. And I say to that, we are the people who are saying, let's shop small. We are the people who are saying, no more corporate dollars going into these big box, big box industries. Right. We are focused on small businesses and shopping local. That's our point.

Joy Reid (108:22)

Well, Trump and derangement actually do go in a sentence, but the in between it is. The word is belongs in it, Devin, because that dude deranged talk about why people. And Jason's gonna throw up that poster when we get it loaded. Why should people participate? And what sports specifically are y' all asking them to do? And there's. And what's the block party?

Devin (108:42)

Well, people should participate because, I mean, just look around. We have this guy saying that we should hang Democratic lawmakers because they said something that he didn't like. And nobody said anything about giving a legal or, you know, what the. They think he's trying to say. But the specifics of what we're trying to do here is so like we did with the. The people sick day. We want people to take three days off work. Pto, economic blackout. Also, no streaming, because that is how they get the ad revenue from there. So if we're not turning on the streaming services, we're not listening to anything on Spotify, they're not bringing in those ad dollars. And we could honestly replicate what we did with Jimmy Kimmel if we all just say at one time, hey, let's just cancel all these streaming services because.

Joy Reid (109:28)

We feel like it. And what dates are y' all asking people to do that from when to when?

Devin (109:34)

November 25th through December 2nd.

Joy Reid (109:36)

And. And caress, talk about what you think the impact of that will be. Is this just a shock? This is. There are several. Just, you know, there are several of these happening. There are several different iterations of the same thing that various groups are doing. Some are calling them boycotts. There's obviously a target boycott that's going. There's a Home Depot boycott that's going. So there's a lot of people who are coalescing around this same idea. What do you think is the purpose of. What do you. What will be gotten out of it?

Caress (110:02)

Well, I mean, I know you just had. We're not buying it on the show recently, and she spoke to the fact that they depend on this, this time for our dollar, right? This is about 20 of their total income over the year, right? So we know that when we use our collective voices with our dollar, that's our power. We have economic power, right? Like, that's the way that we are going to. To make a ding in the system to let them know that we're listening, we're paying attention, and we're getting smarter about what to do about it, right? It's one thing to go outside and march and yell and scream and beat your chest. It's another thing to show power. And that's where we come in with the dollar and what we're going to get out of it. And I'm going to be honest with you and I've told you this the last time I was here. We want impeach, we want arrest and we want removal. He is going against the US Constitution. We are watching as families are being ripped out of their home, even if they're U.S. american citizens. We're watching people's rights be stripped away from them right in front of our face, not given due process.

Joy Reid (110:59)

This.

Caress (111:00)

And it's getting more and more violent from them. I mean, they shot a woman, right? Let's be honest. How much longer will it be before someone shoots them or you know, all out gun battle ensues, right? So we need him and his administration gone. And that's what we're, that's our goal. I want to make that perfectly clear. And I know that that may seem far fetched to a lot of people, but I can promise you this. When the people speak, peak mountains move.

Joy Reid (111:27)

So I asked the same question, Devin, to Michael Fanone because his the, he's part of another organization that's doing a series of events over the weekend. And he said the same thing, that their end game is impeachment and removal. And I did ask him the same thing, whether that's pragmatic as a goal given that no president has ever been removed. We've had a few impeached, handful impeached, but removal has just actually never happened because you need 67 votes in the Senate.

Devin (111:54)

I mean it's impossible. Until it becomes possible, it's really all it is. I mean, have we ever seen 14th Amendment Article 2 kick in?

Dr. John Gartner (112:03)

No.

Devin (112:04)

Let's try it.

Pete Hegseth (112:04)

Why not?

Joy Reid (112:05)

Well, first of all, 14th Amendment Article 3, according to John Robertson, the Supreme Court is inoperative. You can be an insurrectionist and still be President of the United States. So I'm not sure any of the amendments actually matter to the people who are supposed to matter to meeting the Supreme Court, Caress. I mean like they ain't really operating on the Constitution right now. I think that's the challenge. What has been the reaction? And also is there a reason why all of y' all different groups didn't come together and just do one event? There's so many.

Caress (112:31)

So I think most of us are on the same pages and we're all kind of doing the same thing around the same time collectively. Now I will say we do have over 75 movements who have combined together from 55, all branches of 5501 who's endorsed Indivisible GSUS, you know, the Progressive Network US. I mean you know, we're all. We all have a stake in the game, and I think blackout, the system, huge following, Right? So you got so many groups that have huge following. I think we're up to like 300 million followers amongst all the creators combined. Right. So we have a presence. Right. And I think that even if we're not doing the exact same thing, the impact in that same time frame is going to be big because people who didn't join us will join them, and people who didn't join them will join the other group. And I think that. That what they're going to see is a bigger ripple than what they expect and what they anticipate.

Joy Reid (113:23)

Devin, tell folks where they can get involved.

Devin (113:26)

You can go to themassblackout.com that's where you can get all the details, different kinds of ways that you can participate. Also see the different ways that you can be going out to support small businesses. Please still go out and support on small business Saturday. 100%. Yep. Spend cash, please.

Joy Reid (113:44)

There you go. There you go. We love it. You guys are Devon and Caress. I love that they're. They're like Cher and Beyonce or Cher and sunny and Cher. We're gonna say, y', all, because you only need one name a piece. And we love.

David K. Johnston (113:56)

I'll take it.

Joy Reid (113:57)

It's gonna be Joy. So the Sunny and share of protest movements. Devin and Caress, thank you very much. Appreciate y'.

David K. Johnston (114:02)

All.

Joy Reid (114:02)

Thank you.

Caress (114:03)

Bye.

Joy Reid (114:03)

Thank you, Joy.

Devin (114:04)

Bye.

Joy Reid (114:05)

People's sick day and mass blackout movement. All right, y', all, I think we're ready for a moment of joy. Jason, are you ready for a moment of joy? I think we're ready for moment of joy. Our moment of joy. It comes to us on behalf of a young man named Reese who took the mic from his mama and had something important to say. The lady that asked my mama why she never get her hair done.

Randy Weingarten (114:29)

I got this mama.

Joy Reid (114:31)

My mama saved her edges for her birthday. You should do that too.

David K. Johnston (114:36)

Me, the phone.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (114:37)

No.

Caress (114:39)

The.

Joy Reid (114:43)

He said his mama was saving her edges for her birthday. I feel like I should save my edges for my birthday. Reese is our moment of joy. Please follow Nola jetty on the YouTube on the. Well, she is on Instagram and Tick tock. The kids are all right. We love the kids on. On the side. On the social media. They are adorable. Heffalicious. Well, I gotta read a few comments right now. I'm gonna go to the chat just for a moment. We have somebody talking about Heffalicious. We are endeavoring to get in touch with Ms. Maddie J. Trust and believe. We are going to try to get her on the show. We love you, Ms. Maddie J. I'm a DM. You respond to my DMs. I'm a DM you because you got to come on the show. But no, not mama on blast. Exactly. Reese was like, I'm taking your phone. This is what happens when you let the little ones take your phone. They take your phone and they run with it, and then they do their own content. The mama clearly was okay with it because she let them post it, but the reality is she's saving her edges for her birthday, and that is my moment of joy. You got to save your edges. You don't want to use them up. You don't want to. You don't want to use up your edges when you don't really necessarily need them to be deployed. You want to deploy your edges in a strategic way so that their fabulousness is not wasted on the mundane. We don't want the mundane to have any access to our edges. We want our edges to be used only when absolutely necessary. So he said she will spend the money to go in to get her hair did when she absolutely needs to. She's going to do that on her birthday. And I think that's excellent advice. I think he needs another play. You want to play him again? Just go ahead, play him again. The lady that asked my mama why.

Kimberlé Crenshaw (116:23)

She never get her hair done, I got this mama. My mama saved her edges for her birthday.

Joy Reid (116:31)

You should do that, too. And by the way, I wonder who that lady is. Who is that? I actually, as an invest. As a journalist, I need to know what lady Reese is talking about that criticized his mama's edges. If you're gonna criticize a baby boy's edges, know he's gonna come for you. And so social media don't criticize that boy mama edges because he had a word for that lady. If you are that lady, you might want to come forward. You can. There goes another 49. 49 tip. Thank you very much for the edges for the edges. Thank you for doing this. Needed the truth and needed the advice for our edges. Absolutely. That whoever that lady is, please reach out to us at news tips at the joy reach show.com and let us know why you criticized Reese mama edges. Because Reese Reese came for you on social media, commandeered his mother's phone to make sure that he educated you about why it is that she was waiting to get her edges done. That's a little man says Charlie Reed. Absolutely. We love a girl. You know your appointment just passed and he said, no, no, mama. I got it a thousand percent. Probably her hairdresser probably is that lady. That lady might be the hairstyles because you know your hairstyle. Coco will come get me. If I don't come in, I get a text text because I got to keep my blonde going. I got to keep my edges together. But I might be saving mine for my birthday too. Thank you all for tuning in. Don't forget, if you guys want to get a copy of Roy Wood Jr's book, it is really hilarious. It's a terrific book. The man of Many Fathers. You can do that by texting your screenshot showing that you are a subscriber. Just hit that little screenshot and you can text it over to 866joy Reid. You can also email it to us at readers@the joyreadshow.com we've a lot of you guys have been using that phone number and email just to send love to us. We love that. We do read the comments, keep on commenting, keep on sharing. We love you guys. Comments. You all are so thoughtful. You have such interesting things. You guys have such great ideas. We absolutely, absolutely appreciate each and every one of you. Thank you so much for subscribing. If you have not yet subscribed, don't be a lurker. Please make sure that you hit subscribe. Hit that subscribe button. Hit that like button too. Come on. If you like it. Come on. We're trying to get some love. We wish there was a love button. You can hit the love button as well. There's love buttons in the chat. You see, you see all the hearts going on. I see all the hearts. I see all the hearts. And thank you all for the wonderful tips. We're going to figure out something really cool to do for our team with those little tip monies and we appreciate every one of you who've also shopped in the store. Lots of people love the stuff. I'm going to show you what I'm what I'm looking at right now. I got a little lipstick on it, but this is my AMA readers cup. I got a different cup. I also have my original Joy ritual cup. This one is very popular in the store. We got hoodies. I'm going to show you all my T shirt. I wore this earlier. I'm not going to quote what it says. I'm just going to show it to you. But I did put cookies to make sure that it wasn't super Vulgar. But we want to say free DC Free Palestine. Here we go again. And it's F. Trump. F. Ice. Free Palestine. Free D.C. unoccupied Chicago, free Portland. Lots of good stuff.

David K. Johnston (119:38)

All right.

Joy Reid (119:38)

Yeah, we think support our LGBTQ community. Libertad Puerto Rico. We got that. Okay. We got free California. We got it all. So we got all there with all the stuff. All we need is, is one more that says release the Epstein files. That's if I can fit that on the shirt. Somebody said that shirt slaps. Thank you very much. The young people said the shirt slaps. That's a good compliment. And that's it. You guys, I'm gonna free. You guys. Have a great weekend. If you guys are going to be a part of any protest this weekend, stay safe. Keep your eye, your head on a swivel. Keep your eyes out there. Blow the whistles if you see them. If you see the red coats, blow the whistle. Blow the whistle. If you all see the ice goons, blow the whistle on them. Let them know that you know what and who they are and that you know that what they're doing is wrong and not legit it. I'm with the Pope. The Pope says we have to treat our immigrants with grace and with dignity. I'm with him and the Bishops. Have a happy weekend. Good night, thank you for tuning in and we'll see you all on Monday. On the next the Joy Reid Show. Jason, do play the music.

Pete Hegseth (120:47)

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