Dr Who??? | The Joy Reid Show LIVE!

Summary

The Joy Reid Show – "Dr Who???" | August 11, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of The Joy Reid Show dives deep into contemporary challenges and triumphs in Black journalism, with a special focus on the National Association of Black Journalists (NABJ), independent media, and the ongoing purge of Black voices in major media organizations. The first half features an in-depth interview with Erin Haynes, President of NABJ and senior editorial voice at The 19th, highlighting journalism’s role in democracy, Black women's power, and the significance of Black-led media. The latter half shifts to a lively investigation of Dr. Cheyenne Bryant’s controversial doctorate claim, unpacking broader issues around credibility, "Trumpian" defiance, and cultural impact. The episode closes with lighter cultural banter and a joyful viral moment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Black Journalism’s Place in Democracy

• Erin Haynes’ Election & the Mandate of NABJ

  • Haynes discusses becoming NABJ President during a period marked by the arrest and targeting of Black journalists (Georgia Ford, Don Lemon) ([05:10]–[06:44]).
  • NABJ’s advocacy is urgently necessary in an era where press freedom is under threat and diversity is attacked in mainstream institutions.
  • Quote:

    "You do not have a free and healthy democracy without a free and healthy press." – Erin Haynes [08:23]

• Stubborn Lack of Progress in Representation

  • Despite decades since the Kerner Commission, Black journalists' representation has barely moved—from 5% to 6%—amid media consolidation and layoffs ([10:38]).
  • Black journalists continue the historic work started by the Black press, telling the stories mainstream media avoids.

• Independent Media & Black Entrepreneurship

  • NABJ also promotes independent Black journalism as traditional outlets recede.
  • Joy’s own rapid audience growth is cited as a model for others.

2. The 19th, Intersectionality, and Re-Centering Marginalized Communities

• Founding & Mission of The 19th ([14:50])

  • Fills voids in political journalism—too "male and pale"—by focusing on gender, LGBTQ+, and people of color.
  • Emphasizes making those left out by history feel "seen and heard" ([15:28]).
  • Maintains the asterisk in its name to remind that Black women were left out when the 19th Amendment passed.

• Backslide on Diversity in Mainstream Newsrooms

  • Diversity, equity, and inclusion teams set up post-2020 have been "decimated"; coverage of race has cyclically receded ([18:14]).
  • Quote:

    "Diversity is always the first casualty of these kinds of cuts." – Erin Haynes [18:24]

3. Kamala Harris and the Coverage (or Erasure) of Black Women in Power

• Joy and Erin analyze media treatment of Kamala Harris, both as Vice President and as a historic, though unsuccessful, 2024 presidential candidate.
• Quote:

  "Black America did not see her as unimportant. They were interested in whatever she was doing." – Erin Haynes [21:32]

• Erin critiques how media coverage prematurely closed the book on Harris's achievements and fixates on her loss:

  "It feels like journalism malpractice for us not to be actually asking the voters who they would like to see in 2028." – Erin Haynes [23:56]

• Harris’s difficult assignments (vaccine advocacy, voting rights) and her ownership—fair or not—of policies like Gaza are dissected ([26:43], [28:51]).
• The potential for a 2028 run is discussed, along with Harris’s continued importance in Democratic politics.

4. Outstanding Journalism from The 19th

• Highlighting powerful reporting, especially a viral image of a Black woman on the DC Metro surrounded by Patriot Front, and pieces on Cori Bush’s political trajectory and the first Black woman to lead the CDC ([33:43]–[38:17]).
• Quote:

  "Gender and race remain the stories of our time." – Erin Haynes [35:35]

5. The Dr. Cheyenne Bryant Controversy and Broader Cultural Trends

The Bryant Scandal ([53:03]–[70:05])

• Coverage of Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, who claimed a doctorate from a university created in May 2026, is dissected with journalist Ture.
• Revelations include the fact that Bryant is the sole PhD recipient from Indiana Southwest Christian University, with no transparency, transcripts, or conventional academic path.
• Notable Moment:

  "It's an honorary degree that pretends to be an earned degree." – Ture [57:23]

• Bryant is compared to figures like Donald Trump and George Santos for her refusal to back down and double/triple down tactics, which Joy and Ture call “Trumpian.”
• Joy and Ture express concern for public harm, as Bryant markets herself as a psychologist without credentials:

  "This level of lying about yourself...this needs to be like, somebody should be, like, taking care of you to understand what's going on." – Ture [69:36]

Social and Cultural Critiques

• The "Trump effect" on American culture: maximum hostility when challenged, eroding baseline standards of honesty or consequence ([66:58]).
• Dissonance between Black cultural respect for therapy and Bryant’s misleading credentials polluting that conversation.
• Lighthearted proposals to simply change one’s name to "Doctor," riffing on Dr. Dre and Dr. J.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Erin Haynes testifying (playing a clip):

  "Journalists doing their jobs... are increasingly having their credibility challenged and their safety threatened. Black journalists are the trusted messengers in communities across this country..." [04:18]

• On the growth—and limits—of Black media representation:

  "Next year is the 200th anniversary of the Black press. ...journalists like you, Joy, everybody that's watching this right now, help Joy get to half a million followers...That is a testament to you being a trusted messenger in our community." – Erin Haynes [12:53]

• On the Dr. Cheyenne Bryant saga:

  "If she hadn't added the titles, she might be out here like, hey, I'm a professional life coach and it'll be fine. Yeah, you had to say, I'm a doctor when you're not." – Ture [57:23]

• Moment of Joy segment:
  A viral comedic moment with Silk King discussing his Jamaican uncle’s reaction to eating pigeon in Egypt, mixing Caribbean humor, diaspora culture, and family dynamics ([76:08]–[77:53]).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:10]–[09:55]: NABJ’s Current Role, Threats to Black Journalists
• [10:38]–[14:23]: Historic & Current Challenges for Black Journalists
• [14:50]–[17:20]: The 19th’s Mission and Editorial Approach
• [18:14]–[20:41]: Collapse of DEI Initiatives in Newsrooms
• [21:32]–[33:43]: Kamala Harris’s Political & Cultural Legacy; Black Women and Power
• [33:43]–[38:17]: Coverage Highlights from The 19th
• [53:03]–[70:05]: The Dr. Cheyenne Bryant Scandal, Trumpian Culture, and Public Trust
• [75:57]–[77:53]: Moment of Joy—Silk King and Jamaican Uncle on Eating Pigeon

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Running Themes and Tone

• Resilience and pride amid adversity in Black journalism and Black womanhood.
• Candid, often humorous cultural critique—a hallmark of the program’s tone.
• Unapologetic calls for accountability, transparency, and truth in public life and media.
• Celebration of Black excellence alongside honest acknowledgment of social and institutional setbacks.

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Summary Flow

Listeners are guided through the pressing fight for representation and freedom in journalism, the transformation of media power structures, the story and legacy of Kamala Harris, and the real-world implications of rising dishonesty and double-down culture. Joy Reid and her guests offer spirited, at times playful, commentary—moving seamlessly from tough critique to moments of laughter—anchoring serious societal questions within engaging Black cultural dialogue.

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Final Note:
This episode is essential for anyone invested in the future of American journalism, Black representation in media, the evolving nature of public trust, and the intersections of race, gender, and democracy in the US today.

Transcript

[Poet/Performer]

Okay.

[Joy Reid]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Joy Reid Show. Big up to everyone who is checking us out on YouTube, on Substack, on Facebook, our wonderful Twitchies. We love our adorable Twitch family as well as those on LinkedIn. Who knew you could watch podcast on LinkedIn. That's a thing that's happening. So hello to our LinkedInies as well as those who are listening on a an audio podcast platform. We appreciate each and every one of you. We do want to make sure that you are not a lurker. Help us with our algorithm. Make sure that you hit like and subscribe. Make sure that you are truly becoming part of the family.

[Erin Haynes]

Help us get towards 500,000 family.

[Unidentified Supporter]

Come on.

[Erin Haynes]

Absolutely.

[Joy Reid]

Jason, would you like to come on and greet the people on camera now?

[Ture]

I have my camera ready, though.

[Joy Reid]

Oh, okay. Well, that's okay. We're just going to say hi to Jason behind the scenes and big up to the whole team. And so we thank every one of you for being here. We also want to make sure that we thank our sponsors because, listen, we could not do this without the support of amazing sponsors like Strawberry Me. And Strawberry Me is something that I think is actually a wonderful thing, because you know how you have somebody that's a successful athlete, for instance, right. Or successful in business, and you think, well, how did they get there?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Well, a lot of what they did

[Joy Reid]

was they took advantage of the idea of coaching. They took advantage of the idea of coaching. And sometimes when you're not where you want to be, whether it's in your career or in other aspects of your life, what you're lacking is not, like, substance. What you're lacking is not ability. What you're lacking is not skill. You may just be lacking mentorship, and you may be lacking coaching, but Strawberry Me is a place that helps you get that thing, that one thing that you're lacking, which is not something about you. It's. It's something about the support that you need. Lots of people who have used Strawberry Me, which is career coaching, it's like coaching for your career. They've said things like, my coach really was amazing. It helped me to feel productive. It was transformative. Like, you're getting the feedback on it is absolutely incredible. So if you're feeling stuck at work, if you're feeling stuck at what you're trying to do with the rest of your life, do what tens of thousands of other people have already done, go to Strawberry Me and get yourself a coach. So if you go to Strawberry Me crooked, you can claim 50% off your first coaching session. That is strawberry me crooked. It is coaching for your career. And speaking of careers, when she first ran for president of the national association of Black Journalists. President. Ran for the presidency back in 2025. And you can put up a one there, which is the little there. There it is. There was the ad. Aaron Haynes was doing that in the 50th anniversary year of the organization, an organization which exists to protect and promote and, and, and, and, and, you know, basically make manifest the importance of black journalists. And she did that at a time when we're facing really, one of the biggest crises that we have in our democracy. And as we know, black folks and black journalists, black writers, black thinkers, have been central to trying to save our democracy. Erin Haynes, who is a veteran journalist, somebody who has been on the front lines of journalism, whether working in mainstream media at the AP or in her new role, as we try to say the one person we love the most at the 19th. But the 19th is an incredible news organization at which Erin is a senior editorial voice. She is doing the work of journalism, but also of trying to save democracy and of placing black women at the center of that democracy. The asterisk on the 19th news organization, that little asterisk that you see on the 19th is because Aaron insisted that that asterisk be there to note that when the 19th Amendment was passed and when the push for the 19th Amendment happened, Black women were left out and were told to stand to the back of the bus, which they absolutely refused to do. I want you to listen to the great Aaron Haynes testifying before Congress about the importance of journalism, the threats to democracy, and how black women figure in all of that.

[Congressional Testimony Voice]

That is a Two public warnings aimed at journalists like Don Lemon for covering a protest should concern everyone who believes in a free and independent press. Journalists doing their jobs, covering protests, documenting government action, bearing witness in moments of public tension, are increasingly having their credibility challenged and their safety threatened. Black journalists are the trusted messengers in communities across this country, helping to tell a more honest and accurate story about who we are as a country, as part of the American story.

[Joy Reid]

And joining us now is Erin Haynes, a former national writer on race for the Associated Press and currently the editor at large for the wonderful nonprofit news outlet the 19th, and also the lady

[Co-host/Commentator]

who won her election. This was the winning election of a

[Joy Reid]

black woman which we could celebrate because she is the president of the national association of Black Journalists, which is celebrating its. Is it its 51st anniversary of its convention literally this week? Erin.

[Erin Haynes]

Hello, Joy. Oh, my gosh. One of my favorite members. It's so glad to see you. I'm so excited to see you at our convention in just a couple of days in my hometown of Atlanta. It is. It is thrilling. We'll be marking the 50th anniversary of our very first convention in Atlanta. And so it really feels like just such a full, full circle moment for me. It's my 26th convention in a row, if you can believe that. I started as a student in nabj, and now I get to lead this organization. We are 4,000 strong, and we are meeting this moment of tremendous challenge, and also, I feel like, opportunity for the folks that we know are telling a crucial part of the American story each and every single day. So glad to be with you.

[Joy Reid]

Absolutely. And, you know, when you testified before Congress about the threats to democracy, you know, this was coming after the arrest of two very prominent black journalists and NABJ members Georgia Ford and Don Lemon, for doing their jobs, as you said in your testimony. Can you talk about particularly the number one, the importance of the NABJ in this moment?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

I mean, if ever we needed an advocacy organization, it is now. But also where black journalists stand in this fight for our democracy in this moment.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah. Well, I have to say I was not testifying before Congress. I was in Washington, but I was participating in part of a diversity roundtable that was organized by folks like the National Urban League. But other civil rights organizations, faith leaders, other advocacy organizations who understand that these attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion are not just kind of these abstract, you know, theories. They're. They're having very real impacts on our institutions and on the people that make so many of those institutions run. NABJ certainly understands that threats to black journalism are threats to our democracy, their threats to press freedom, and their threats to us being able to tell the most honest and accurate story that we can about who and where we are as a country. And so really, you know, those kinds of threats are what really motivated me to run for president of nabj. I will tell you, this was not something that was on my bingo card. I was not, you know, a member that, you know, kind of came up in the organization thinking that one day I would lead it. But, you know, when I was seeing kind of what happened, what has been happening in our country, the attacks that we are seeing on our beloved profession and what that has meant, particularly for black journalists, that I didn't feel like one. Our profession was speaking out and pushing back against this in the way that I wanted to see as a member of that profession. Where was the advocacy on our behalf to say that you do not have a free and healthy democracy without a free and healthy press? Right. And so, you know, running for president was really about me feeling like my best and highest use in this moment was to be that voice. I'm fortunate enough to be a part of nonprofit independent media, so I'm not beholden to, you know, a, you know, traditional legacy outlet. Corporate. Corporate. Corporate media that, frankly, you know, we've seen the way that they've responded in many cases to. To these attacks and to these threats, and so being able to speak up and speak out on behalf of the journalists who are trying to do their jobs in these newsrooms and in independent media folks like you, Joy, each and every single day, being able to do your jobs with excellence and professionalism under just tremendous, tremendous challenge, being an advocate for these folks has really been the joy and the privilege of the past year of leading nabj. But I know it has also been a challenging year for so many of the people that I'm trying to stand up for.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

And I mean, and thank you for that. You know, I'm trying to elevate you to. I was going to say you were

[Co-host/Commentator]

in the White House.

[Joy Reid]

I'm going to say whatever I need to elevate Erin Haynes to the place where she should be, but absolutely. I think any time that, you know, we're having to defend, you know, the freedom of journalists, their literal, physical freedom, I feel like we're in a bad place. We're in a dark place.

[Co-host/Commentator]

But we've been there before.

[Erin Haynes]

That's not what democracy is about, Joy. You know, that. Like, it is not, you know, for us to be asking questions on behalf of the American people, by the way. Like, that is the job that we have to do. And we should not be in a posture where that means that we could be losing. Risking losing our freedom. That should not be the consequence of us just trying to do our jobs each and every single day.

[Congressional Testimony Voice]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

And I mean, whether it's Karen Attia having been literally the last black member of the editorial team at the Washington Post and thrown out on her ear, you know, and black women losing jobs at, you know, mainstream media outlets from CBS to, you name it, it's been just like a purge of black journalists that we've seen since this new administration has come in. So you came on board, really, at a time of incredible strife. Not the first time, obviously, in this country we've had strife for black journalists. So can you talk about this moment, because it definitely feels like it's never been more fraught of a time, at least in our modern history, to be a black journalist.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. Right. I mean, you know, NABJ was founded in 1975 because you had, you know, 44 bold founders who saw the need, they understood the power of strength in numbers for them to come together and for them to advocate for our representation in, you know, mainstream American newsrooms. And, you know, we've grown. Certainly the black press is absolutely a part of who we are and what we do. Other folks who. Who have other roles in media, but who are facing some of the same challenges that we are facing as black journalists stand with us. And so we've grown, you know, 50 years later to an organization that is 4,000 strong, but is absolutely, you know, facing some of the same challenges and worse that that those 44 founders faced 50 years ago. I would also point out, you know, the Kerner Commission, when that. When that report was issued, I think something like 5% of all of the journalists in American newsrooms were black journalists. Today, that number is only at 6%. Like, what does that say about. Certainly, numerically we've made gains, but percentage wise, that that is still where we stand in terms of representation means that we absolutely have to keep pushing. That challenge is there. And yet these media consolidations and cuts are. Are disproportionately affecting our journalists. For those who are fortunate enough to still have jobs, they're up against, you know, gatekeepers who, you know, maybe don't want them to talk about issues of race, which we know is the unfinished business of this democracy, we couldn't be talking about anything more important than the inequality that still persists and exists in, you know, every state in our union. We know that that is a true thing. And so, you know, just because we may have an administration that doesn't want to acknowledge that or is trying to ignore that or is trying to tell us that we shouldn't be talking about that, or we know as journalists that it is our job to right wrongs and to try to afflict the comfortable and to speak truth to power. And black journalists have been doing that, we know, since, you know, since. Since the beginning. Next year is the 200th anniversary of the black press. The black press has absolutely been doing that when there were others who either couldn't or wouldn't speak that truth to power, and they continue so boldly in that tradition today. But there's so many of us that are still trying to do that in traditional newsrooms. There's also those of us who are independent journalists, journalists like you, Joy. Everybody that's watching this right now, help Joy get to half a million followers. Like, can. I can't believe it. Joy, like 18 months into you doing this thing, look at what you have been able to build. That is a testament to you being a trusted messenger in our community. And not only that, but a messenger of truth. You have the authenticity and the credibility, and you are doing honest and accurate storytelling every single day. That is what so many of our people do. And frankly, going the route that you have gone is something that a lot more of us are thinking about. I will tell you that NABJ was also founded to encourage black entrepreneurship, especially in the media space. For folks who do want to strike out and do this on their own, for folks who are feeling like they're being tolerated and not celebrated for the work that they do, who want to still get the mess, our information and news out to our communities. Because we are the ones that those communities trust. We want to help them figure out how to do that too. And we want to support our journalists who are doing that. Because the work that you all do is critically important, especially in this moment. As we are seeing the suppression of news covering that is about our communities, we're seeing that suppression. And so how are we going to continue to get the message and the news out to our people? NABJ has to be part of that solution. And so I do feel like there is also an opportunity in this challenge for. For us to think about what we, you know, the platforms that we are owning, the ways that we are getting news and information to our people, like that is also the opportunity in this moment. And NABJ has to be leading in that as well.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, indeed. And I mean, you yourself, I mean, you have worked for, you know, the Associated Press workfare at the sort of highest levels of corporate or sort of mainstream media. I wouldn't even say the AP is sort of a bigger than sort of corporate. It's really kind of a go to for all of us and for myself even included. But now you are working in an independent space. You know, at the 19th, it's a different vibe. Right. It's an independent nonprofit media organization. Talk about that transition for you.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah, I mean, look, the 19th was also born out of necessity. We know, you know, political journalism is still too male and too pale, so we had to do something different. I didn't want to be talking about women, you know, as A black woman, as, you know, just a special interest group. Women are half the population and half the electorate. Like, we must talk about women's issues as everybody's issues and ask everybody about the things that matter to women. We thought that we could do this differently at the 19th. And so in 2020, you know, I was one of five people that helped to start our newsroom. We're focused on gender. We're focused on LGBTQ people. We're focused on, you know, people of color and really, you know, all kinds of people who have been historically marginalized in this democracy. We want them to know that this is their journalistic home. We want them to feel seen and. And heard, and we want to tell stories about, you know, what their role in this democracy is and to make them understand that they are a part of this democracy. We want them to feel civically empowered to participate in democracy, however they are doing that. Right. And so that really was the spirit that fueled the 19th. Like you mentioned, we're named for the 19th Amendment, but we do have that asterisk in our logo because we know that black women were thrown under the bus in 1920 when the 19th Amendment was passed. And we don't want to make that same mistake, you know, more than 100 years later. We want to continue to bring people in to democracy and make sure that we are not continuing to omit people from that conversation and from their equal participation in their democracy as it should be now. I mean, I think we have to point out when we started in 2020, you know, we were looking at, you know, a change in the White House where, you know, we saw the continued progress and around things like, you know, inclusion and representation in this country. And here we are, you know, six years later, and we are in a climate where those things are, you know, are no longer seen as American values. And so everybody that we write for and about at the 19th, frankly, are people who are feeling very much under attack in this country. And so being able to be part of the leadership of a newsroom that is helping those people figure out how to navigate this democracy and what the decisions that are being made at the highest levels of our government, what that means for them, feels like critically important work and the kind of work that I feel like I am best able to do in an independent, nonprofit newsroom. Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

You know, it's so interesting, I think, about the fact that Nicole Hannah Jones, our good friend, who I love, that she calls herself Ida Bay Wells in honor of Ida. Of Ida B. Wells, one of the great Black journalists of all time, the most brave. One of the most brave journalists and human beings in American history, was able to do the 1619 Project inside of one of the epic sort of mainstream media outlets. And that was the world we used to live in when there was a curiosity, enough of a curiosity to about the history of this country and rethinking it, that that kind of a project could live.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

And an institutional, you know, sort of outlet like the New York Times. And then you fast forward to today when it's hard to imagine the 1619 project being allowed to exist. Yeah, that very same newsroom.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah. No, that. That's absolutely right. And I mean, just look at the. We talk about the media consolidation and cuts where those have come. We have seen the gutting of, you know, in the racial reckoning of just a few years ago in the pandemic, right. We saw newsrooms that were standing up race and ethnicity teams to cover racial inequality in this country. Those teams have been decimated as part of this media consolidation that we've seen. Diversity is always the first casualty of these kinds of cuts. And that's why we have been unable to maintain and build upon the gains that we've been trying. Trying to make since, you know, the start of nabj. On the other side of that Kerner Commission report, which said we must cover black communities holistically, we must cover the fullness of black America. And so that was the recommendation of that report. That was supposed to be the commitment of these American newsrooms, and yet they are not living up to that commitment at all. And if anything, we've seen a retreat from that in these recent months. I have spent most of my career as somebody who's been covering the intersection of race and politics and power, and I will tell you, it has been cyclical for far too long. And we do find ourselves at somewhat of a nadir right now in terms of mainstream newsrooms commitment to covering issues of inequality and, as I said, the unfinished business of race in America.

[Joy Reid]

I have to ask you, I mean, you've interviewed Vice President Kamala Harris. You were with her on that trip, that epic trip that she made to the African continent, to Tanzania, to Ghana. Where does she fit into the story of where we are as a country? I mean, she rose to the highest levels of power that any woman of any race has ever done, Right? People think of Nancy Pelosi as being all powerful, but she didn't rise to the highest level. It was really. It was. Kamala Harris was vice president, United States, and Yet now the conversation about her is really more critical of her campaign, and I'm not sure it really addresses, you know, what she ever achieved. It's just all about the pain of her loss. Where does she stand, in your view, as somebody who has covered her for so long and has written about her, and how do we think about Kamala Harris right now as black women and as black journalists?

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah, I mean, it has been. And thank you for asking that, Joy, because this is not the conversation that we've been able to have even, you know, in mainstream media. The 2024 election happened, and it was like people wanted to forget about it. They wanted to just move on from it instead of really, like you said, reckoning with what did it mean for Kamala Harris to be the most power, powerful woman, period, in the country for those four years that she served as vice president of the United States? I got to see that, like you said, in action. When she was on the world stage, on the continent, people saw her, I mean, literally as a symbol of the United States, you know, embodied. Every time she walked into her room, when we were in Ghana, when we were in Tanzania, when we were in Zambia, what she brought the. The people of those countries were lining the streets just to see that motorcade pass. We're wanting to hear what kind of opportunities she might bring to improve their lives. A lot of times, you know, in this country, we think about the vice president as somebody who's not very important, who's not very consequential. But we know that black America did not see her that way. They were interested in whatever she was doing. Right? And we didn't get to see that enough because of the way that, you know, mainstream media kind of covers the comings and goings and the activities of the vice President of the United States. So I do think that this was a very consequential person, and that is even before, you know, that 107 day historic campaign that she ran for president. I will tell you, when we started the 19th, there were six women on the ballot for president. But by the time we get to Super Tuesday in 2020, we were down to two white men. So I really wasn't sure when the next time if we were going to see another woman. I mean, surely another woman running, but another woman nominee. I did not know when that would be possible again. And so the idea that, you know, that we did have that in 2024 and a black woman at that, who was standing for the highest office in the land like that is that is A consequential thing who came within 2 million votes of becoming President of the United States. You know, less than a decade after the first black, you know, black person, black man, becomes President of the United States. Like, that is a thing that's remarkable. But because she was unsuccessful in that, you know, we talk about her, you know, candidacy largely as a failure when I do think. I do think that there is just so much that we. That remains kind of unsaid about what she was able to accomplish instead of the thing that she did not accomplish. And obviously, like, as a candidate, like, that's not just on her, you know, like, we. We, you know, what does that. What does it mean to think, to talk about what it means that the voters did not, again, you know, didn't want a woman president. Didn't want a black woman president. We're not talking about that. And why? Right. Because what does that mean for the 2028 of it all? Kamala Harris remains one of, if not the most popular Democrat, as we talk about who might run in 2028 and whether she's going to run or not. But there's already, like, you know, a conversation that. A narrative out there that she absolutely should not run and she has no business running. And it's like, well, is that what the voters are saying? It seems like a lot of the voters would very much still like to see her run. But. But because you've got, you know, kind of the. The chatter class saying that that is the thing that shouldn't happen, that becomes the dominant narrative. What does it mean to get out and ask voters who they would like to see. Right. And how they feel about Kamala Harris. We're not asking that question enough. And that. That, I mean, honestly, to me, feels like journalism malpractice for us not to be actually asking the voters who they would like to see in 2028 instead of asking, you know, the people who kind of get paid to run campaigns what. What their. What their thoughts are, or people who are in elected office, you know, who are not going to be the only ones, you know, casting a ballot for the next President of the United States.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Joy Reid]

I mean, I even think about the way that she was covered as vice president is so different from the way we're seeing J.D. vance covered. I mean, every minute he's being interviewed on some podcast or people are asking him his views, he's constantly circulated on the Sunday shows, such as they are at this point, and sort of taken seriously when he seems such an unserious figure in so many ways. That's my opinion, not yours. But, you know, and you think about Al Gore, you know, who was covered as, you know, the person that was in charge of the emergence of the Internet and was sort of covered in that way, or even, you know, Dick Cheney, who was covered as effectively the real president of the United States. And the question always asked, was he the person in power? And then I think about the way that this black woman who was in those exact. That exact same job, who had exactly as much power as Dick Cheney, exactly as much power as JD Vance is wielding now, you know, as much power as Al Gore was wielding. I feel like there's. This is why we need more black women journalists.

[Poet/Performer]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

Because the way she was covered by you, by the way she was covered, I feel by myself and by others who understood the meaning of that power, which is different.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah. And I mean, look, she did have some. Some. One. I mean, she got some of some of the hardest assignments.

[Joy Reid]

Yes, she did.

[Erin Haynes]

You know, that. That. That anyone could have had as vice president. I think about when President Biden was, you know, President Obama's vice president and, you know, they were trying to fix the economy, and he had such a major role in doing that. She comes on, she has to help. This is, again, they. They come into office when the country is still in the midst of a pandemic, Right. And there was skepticism among our community, among other people, about getting vaccinated. She did that work almost from day one. She's trying to do the work of helping people to get vaccinated so they can stay safe, they can stay healthy, they can stay alive. We were being disproportionately. We were dying in that pandemic. Another thing that we do not talk about and unpack nearly enough, Right. People are wanting to move on, you know, the further and further away that we get away from, from that global pandemic that continues to have effects on.

[Poet/Performer]

On.

[Erin Haynes]

On where we are as a country. I think about, you know, trying to get. Trying to shore up voting rights in this country. Like, that was also another assignment that she had trying to get the John Lewis Voting Rights act passed. That was not something that was able to happen under the Congress that they had at that time. But I mean, think about where we might be as a country if the John Lewis Voting Rights act was in place, especially now that we see the gutting of the Voting Rights act by the Supreme Court. The work that she was trying to do on, you know, the root causes of migration and what we're seeing. With this, you know, the situation with immigration in this country, like we did, we did not hear nearly enough about the challenges that she was trying to confront and was expected to solve. You know, in many cases, it kind of felt like that, you know, these were long standing, intractable issues that she was trying to confront, not to mention the work that she did around maternal mortality, which we know proportionally impacts black women.

[Joy Reid]

But and abortion rights. I mean, she was the lead voice

[Erin Haynes]

on abortion rights after the fall of Dobbs. She was the main person speaking out because the president was not somebody that had really even use the word abortion very much, you know, during his time in office. And so what does it mean to think about, you know, what I have yet to see, even, you know, and all the books that we've seen about, you know, that administration, like, where is, where is the book that talks about what she was able to do and what that meant for the country, what that meant for expanding people's political imagination around women's leadership, around black women's leadership? You know, we still, we still need to be unpacking that. And that is, that is the conversation that is that I feel like, especially headed into, you know, 2028 and beyond, how can we talk about who, you know, whether or not this is ever going to happen if we're not talking about the lessons that we can learn from this person that achieved, you know, that had gotten to the highest place that any woman has gotten in this country up to this point.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, I think one of the great tragedies of the story of Vice President Harris is that what she winds up owning is President Biden's Gaza policy, his Israel Gaza policy, because everywhere she goes, that is the thing that she has protested for. And it's not clear that she 100% agreed with this Gaza policy, but she owns it. And it probably is the thing that made the difference in her being able to become president. And so there is just this sort of interesting thing where she was not front and center on the Gaza policy. She owns that policy now. You know, we now know that she has reached out to some of the leaders of the uncommitted movement at the time. She's reached out to and had a conversation with Zohan Mamdani, the mayor of New York City. And so she is trying to do some repair on that, I would assume, in anticipation of running for president again. What do you think a by a Kamala Harris 2.0 presidential candidate candidacy looks like?

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think we're going to See, I, I did interview her as part of her book tour that, that she did about that 107 day candidacy, which, you know, really, I saw up close just how much she did, how many places she went, how hard she worked, you know, to try to convince the American people She had 107 days to do that. Ultimately, you know, was not able to put it off, but came pretty close. And so I think right now what you are seeing her doing feels like a lot of listening, a lot of going out and engaging with people across the country. And, and I, it, it does, it certainly feels like, you know, that could be in preparation for her running again in, in 2028. And, and should. She should absolutely be in the conversation. Right. As, as close as she came. Certainly her boss, you know, when she, when she was in the administration, had run multiple times for office. Right. Hillary Clinton ran more than once in her quest to try to become the first woman president. So why shouldn't we be talking about her potentially running again? I think, I think that that is something that is wholly worth us unpacking and exploring instead of just dismissing, you know, her running again because she lost in 2024. But, and lost a close election. I mean, I just, I can't reiterate that enough. But, but seeing her on this book tour in particular, the places that she has chosen to go and the conversations that she is having, that book tour certainly seems to be kind of like a focus group situation. Yeah. In terms of her time. Yes. If this is something that she thinks is possible based on the reception that she is getting kind of on this campaign. Well, not campaign tour, book book, book tour. Not the campaign trail. But I will say it, it has a campaign trail kind of vibe.

[Joy Reid]

Yes.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Paging Dr. Freud because I think the

[Joy Reid]

first thing you said was probably more accurate. I will be fascinated to see if she makes a hard pivot on Gaza just given the conversation she's having on the back end. And if she changes that position or alters it to fit the now prevailing view of the Democratic base, which is an interesting turn in and of itself and a whole story. So that I think will be an interesting pivot if she does it. And also what she says about Joe Biden. Right. Because she's been very reluctant to say out loud what she says in her book.

[Erin Haynes]

I mean, we remember that View interview, Right. With our friend Sunny Hostin when Sonny, she was just asking a question that you would ask somebody, especially a vice president that is running for president. What is the thing that distinguishes you from Joe Biden you know, where do you two diverge? What do you know? How are you different from him? And that she didn't have an answer, wouldn't answer that question in that moment. I think, you know, she talks about that in the book. We, everybody certainly looked at that as a very telling moment. She talks, she's talked a lot, you know, in her political career, in her campaigns about being unburdened by what has been. Right. So maybe she will be unburdened by what has been going forward and we could see a different and a new Kamala Harris. I will say, though, you know, in those 107 days, I certainly saw the evolution of Kamala Harris as a politician. I covered her when she ran in 2020 and, you know, was campaigning in 2019 and was off the ballot before anybody got to even cast one vote for her in 2020. And so looking at kind of where she is now versus where she was then as somebody who was standing for president, I think that she definitely grew in that time. And so, you know, does she continue to grow and what do we continue to learn about who she is as a politician and, and whether she is somebody that the American people could see as presidential should she decide to run again?

[Joy Reid]

Yeah. I want to talk about some, some of the content in the 19th and those of you, if you're not already subscribed to the 19th and you're not giving that 19, which is like great, the, the suggested donation to try to keep this amazing nonprofit newsroom going, donate

[Co-host/Commentator]

more if you want.

[Joy Reid]

You can multiply that 19 by however many you like. Give the kind of money that folds, not the kind of money that, that, that jingles is what we want to see to keep these newsrooms alive. There are three stories, one of which written by yourself. You wrote a piece that was one of my favorite of your pieces and also one of the best Reuters photos, which I think will win a Pulitzer. And that is this iconic and terrifying, frankly, image of a black woman on the Metro in D.C. on the day that the Patriot front converged on Washington D.C. and it's, I think, an image that people may never, ever forget and again, hopefully will be an award winning image. That's a piece by you. Also in the 19th there is the unpacking of the Cori Bush candidacy and loss. I know you wrote about her candidacy while it was still active. There's a piece on the 19th now about the conclusion of her attempt to regain her House seat, which was unsuccessful. And AIPAC threw a lot of money at making sure that she stays out of politics, having been a member of the squad. And the third one that I want to show is this piece in the 19th that is actually running in the current issue about the first black woman to lead the cdc, which I'm actually surprised a black woman is getting a

[Co-host/Commentator]

job on that scale or.

[Joy Reid]

But talk about the role of black women and their safety, their ambition, their standing on business, like Cori Bush did on the issue of Gaza and what remains of black women's power.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah. Well, thank you, first of all, for highlighting our coverage. We again, centering folks who are being. Still being overlooked, whose stories are still being untold, largely untold, in, you know, traditional legacy mainstream media. We are going to keep those stories on the radar because we know, again, that gender and race remain these stories of our time. To my mind, you know, if we are not talking about those things not as a side issue, but as the main issue in our democracy, then, then we are not, again, we are not telling as honest and accurate a stor we could be about. About who and where we are as a country. You know, you mentioned that Bernita Bolding column that I wrote for the amendment, the newsletter that I Write for the 19th, which you can subscribe to for free. You know, I saw that photo. I was actually at Essence Festival. It was fourth of July weekend, you remember, and the country is marking, you know, the 250th anniversary of our democracy. And that image just really spoke volumes about where we are as a country at our 250th milestone. This black woman is on this train, and she is surrounded by these members of what we know as a white nationalist group that is going to our nation's capital to observe that anniversary. At that time, we didn't know her name. We didn't know her story, but that image was resonating with so many black women who could only imagine how they would have felt in her position. And my mind just went to the images of black women who felt surrounded by, you know, were in fear of the white supremacy that they were surrounded by in moments in our history. Right. Whether it was in Little Rock, Arkansas, or whether it was, you know, Ruby Bridges trying to go to her first day of school. Ruby Bridges, who is still alive and well and with us today, by the way. I mean, this is not ancient history. This is not the far past. The past is still very, very much with us. And I think that that was what was resonating in that. In that image. And so I felt, you know, compelled to kind of write about that, because I could see that it was just on. It was heavy on the minds of a lot of people, people, especially a lot of black women, seeing that image. And then, you know, the Cori Bush, Wesley Bell rematch, I felt like it was important for us at the 19th to go to St. Louis and to hear from people and to also hear from her in particular. You know, that was a race that was kind of under the radar for

[Co-host/Commentator]

a lot of people.

[Erin Haynes]

There was so much attention on that Michigan Senate primary. Right. And rightly so. I mean, there was a lot of money, a lot of. And that was going to be a very close race, and it was going to say a lot about where the country was. But I did wonder what that race could say about where the country was. I mean, here's somebody who, I mean, you know, she and, and, and, and her opponent are both people that I got to know, got to meet, you know, during the Ferguson uprising. And then they go, they both go into politics different directions. But then, you know, she runs, becomes the first Black Lives Matter activist, the first black woman to represent Missouri to go to Congress. And, you know, and while she was there, she took that activist spirit with her to Washington. And so, you know, that's who she is. You know, talking to her, that was the way that she knew how to lead. And so the activist as legislator was who she was. And, you know, that was ultimately something that ends up costing her her seat. You know, she protested, slept on the steps of the Capitol to try to fight against, to keep this federal moratorium against evictions in place during the pandemic. Again, this is somebody who had been unhoused at one point, so she intimately understood what the stakes of that moratorium going away was going to mean for people at that time. That was something that made her somewhat of a target. But obviously her stance on speaking out for, for Gaza after the, you know, after the Israel Hamas conflict happened in, you know, that October of, of 2023, that makes her a target of APAC. AIPAC poured a lot of money into that state, into her race, and, and, and ultimately she is defeated. And so obviously, in a lot of ways, 2026 is a different political climate. People's, you know, the American people's views on that conflict are mixed. Sentiment towards Israel is, is changing. I'm sorry, there's a fire alarm in my hotel. I'm so sorry.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Wait a minute.

[Congressional Testimony Voice]

Oh, no.

[Erin Haynes]

I'm like, what is happening right now?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Should you evacuate? This is the.

[Erin Haynes]

They said they were going to be testing at Some point, and I guess. Okay, look, hang on a second.

[Unidentified Guest]

Sorry.

[Erin Haynes]

I guess it'll. Hopefully it'll stop in a minute.

[Joy Reid]

We're gonna let it.

[Co-host/Commentator]

We're gonna let. We'll let that fire drill happen.

[Joy Reid]

That is wild.

[Erin Haynes]

Go away. This is so. Because I'm like, if it's just a test, how long y' all need to

[Joy Reid]

know if it works, right?

[Co-host/Commentator]

It works.

[Joy Reid]

Like, clearly it.

[Erin Haynes]

It works. Thank you.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Wow.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Wow,

[Unidentified Guest]

wow.

[Erin Haynes]

Right? I don't know. I guess it'll stop soon.

[Unidentified Guest]

I know.

[Joy Reid]

By the way, can't wait to see you in the atl, girl. We gonna see your natural environment.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I love it.

[Erin Haynes]

I'm excited. And then we get to hang out again on the Vineyard.

[Joy Reid]

I know, like. So, Aaron, in the midst of all of your brilliant thoughts, the fire alarm decided it did not want to let us be great. I don't know what's happening, but, you know, we gotta. We gotta defend and make sure that the. That everyone is safe. But we want to make sure you're safe, though.

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah. Fire alarm test will not let us be great. But, yeah, I mean, it is what it is. We want people. We want the fire alarm to work in a Hotel.

[Joy Reid]

We 100% want the firearm to alert.

[Erin Haynes]

But.

[Joy Reid]

So before I let you go, Aaron, I do want to just put it up again. Asics, that the board of the NABJ of the national association of Black Journalists. What I love about it is that it's representing lots of both traditional media, but also independent media. You see Roland Martin, vice president of Digital. We see, of course, our dear friend Aaron Haines as the president. Madam President, we like to call her.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Um.

[Joy Reid]

And we just so proud of you. We're so proud of the board. We're so proud of all of you and everybody that is leading this new era of nabj. I gotta ask you, the fire alarm be damned if people have not yet registered and are NABJ members. Is it too late to register, pay your dues and get to Atlanta?

[Erin Haynes]

Yeah, I was just gonna. It's not too late for you to become a member, and it's not too late for you to register. Our convention is kicking off in two days. August 12th is when we start. So you still got time to get your tickets to get registered, and to get on down to Atlanta to join us. We are going to be more than 3,000 journalists strong. Come and be with us knocking on the door. Four thousand, I believe, at my last count. So you don't want to miss it. You do not want to have FOMO Once you start seeing all those pictures, if there's any way you can get down to Atlanta and be with us, we promise you a convention that will be worth your time and money.

[Joy Reid]

When I tell you bringing together NABJ and the city of Atlanta, people just don't even Understand legendary joy.

[Erin Haynes]

20 years. 20 years is the last time that we were in Atlanta for nabj and people have been talking about that convention ever since. The. The young people are hearing about the legendary Atlantic convention and they are wanting a legendary Atlanta convention of their own. So that's what they're going to get. So nabjonline.org you can go, you can register and we hope to see all of you in just a couple of days.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Cap.

[Joy Reid]

The capital of black America hosting the national association of Black Journalist convention.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Before I let you go, I have

[Joy Reid]

to give you one more set of flowers. Jason, if you could please roll the trailer. A7.

[Unidentified Guest]

The south is one of the most loveliest places in the world.

I love the South. But now the south is the political epicenter of the country. Democrats are way, way, way on their heels in this region. But Republicans are going through their own reckoning in the south too.

I think that's right.

It's the fastest growing region in every age group.

That's because we just more fun than everybody else in the country.

Wait, there's more says here. Casual banter so we can see our friendship. I know nothing about me says Pascagola, Mississippi, but I was born there.

Now that I know you're a southern girl, you got the cred.

It's hard to be a Democrat. Elected themselves, no question. What were your years as mayor?

2010 to 2018. I was elected lieutenant governor of Louisiana in a red state twice.

That's why I wanted to do this with you, because you understand this city, you understand people. And then we have a third host, Aaron Haynes. She's from Atlanta. She's covered Georgia politics for a long time. She's an old school reporter.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Sorry.

[Unidentified Guest]

She knows how the cow at the cabbage. So it's going to be great.

The Voting rights Act has upended politics in the South.

The k voting rights decision is like dropping a bomb on the political structure in America. Race, in my opinion, continues to be a major problem.

Not just in the South.

Not just in the South. Calais is really almost a death blow to African American suffrage. You cannot gerrymander your way out of the idea that you have to change hearts and minds if you want people to vote for you.

And so you have to start by understanding it. Go out and meet like the sort of emerging leaders that are here, understand what people here really care about and also how awesome the culture is. Like, I want to make the show

[Erin Haynes]

that I want to watch 100%.

[Unidentified Commentator]

How you doing?

[Unidentified Guest]

In our darkest times, we actually have an opportunity to create something wholly new. What happens next is going to be

really important and it's going to happen here.

[Co-host/Commentator]

That is the trailer for Longplay.

[Joy Reid]

It is a political docu series from crooked media. And as you could see see on screen, Jennifer Palmieri, longtime political strategist Mitch Landrieu, former mayor of New Orleans and of course, our dear friend, Madam President Erin Haynes, who was not available to do the promo. But you are the, I'm going to say the main host. They your co host. So congratulations on the new docu series.

[Erin Haynes]

Thank you so much. I hope that people are able to tune in the first. We're already halfway through our very first season. We started in my home state of Georgia, went to Texas, North Carolina. As of today. You can watch the episode that we did in Tennessee and headed from there to South Carolina. So you do not want to miss this very important docu series that we are doing about my region of the country, the place that where I was born and raised. And that shaped me. That definitely shaped how I think about politics in this country. And I think, you know, W.E.B. du Bois said, you know, as the south goes, so goes America. So we have to pay attention to what happens in the south because the south has always shaped American politics and American democracy. And I think that that could not be more true in this moment.

[Joy Reid]

Madam President Erin Haynes, the queen of black women in media and a star in so many ways. People enjoy you seeing you on television as a commentator. They enjoy reading you in the 19th. Please subscribe to Aaron's newsletter. We're going to put that all that information in the description below. Listen, I'm so proud of you, sis. I am super proud of you. Cannot wait to get to Atlanta to celebrate you and your administration running the national association of Black Journalists.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I paid my dues.

[Joy Reid]

Listen, I will be there.

[Erin Haynes]

I appreciate you. And listen, I'm so proud of you, too. What you are doing, what you are building, this matters, the people that need, the stories that you are bringing to light each and every episode of the Joy Reed Show. Like this really, really matters and you are doing it. So in case nobody's told you today, I will say your president is so proud of you and what you have built here. It is showing other people, other black journalists Other members of nabj, the way forward in an industry, quite frankly, that is not doing right by enough of us right now. And so I, I just. I just want to lift you up and I want to tell everybody watching, thank you for watching, thank you for supporting Joy. And tell a friend, get three more people that you know in your life to subscribe so that we can keep this very necessary platform going. We need this. We need this in. In journalism. You are an essential part of the media ecosystem, Joy, and. And people need to support that.

[Joy Reid]

Thank you, sister. I appreciate you. Thank you very much. And I will see you in the Atlanta.

[Erin Haynes]

See you soon.

[Joy Reid]

See you soon. Yes. And I will be on a panel at NABJ with Don Lemon, Tiffany Cross, Michael Harriot. We're going to be talking about independent media. We got a lot of stuff going on. So I will be there, Jason will be there. We're going to be at nabj. So if you're going to be in Atlanta, holla at a scholar, because we will absolutely be there. Definitely looking forward to it. Now, before we move on, I want to acknowledge one another, one of our incredible sponsors, and it is the writer of this book, Bullies, Parasites and Slaves. Listen, we're talking about independent media. You also have to talk about independent authors who are trying to bring the truth unfiltered to the American people. And in this time of autocracy, it's never been more important to get yourself informed. And people ask, does anybody even read books anymore? Absolutely they do. Bullies, Parasites and Slaves is one of the most important ones to read. I've read it. You should, too. And by the way, you can even get it for free if you need it to be free. And what is it about? Well, think about this for a minute. Your CEO makes more money before lunch than you make in a year. Politicians that you pay their salary, right? They benefit themselves too often rather than those who they're supposed to serve. And on what planet is that okay? On what planet is that logical? This book explores it all. How you are ruthlessly underpaid and punished if you object. How your hard work subsidizes those above you in class. Theoretically, George Koch, who is the author, reveals the stories, true history and actual facts so that you can help others to see them at last. And then he shows us the way out. Meet each other's needs. That's the things that we need to do, the ones that we all have in common. And when your needs are met, everyone benefits. It's logical. And the golden rule of mutual care is what it is about. It's a paperback. You can also get it in digital or audio form. You can get this book so that we can all take back our lives and our democracy. Bullies, parasites and slaves. Replacing exploitation with mutual care. Get the book today online or at your local bookstore. Or you can get it at BPS Online. BPS Online. You can also text CARE C to 511-511 and again, it is free if you need it to be.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Welcome to hour two of the Joy Reid Show. Do be sure to avail yourself of

[Joy Reid]

the opportunity to hit like and subscribe.

[Co-host/Commentator]

We want to make sure that you are not a lurker, that you're actually a member of the family.

[Joy Reid]

Also, please hit share.

[Co-host/Commentator]

We're creeping up on our 500,000 subscriber. Why could that not be you? Or you could send it to five or ten friends and it could be them. Also hit the little bell so that

[Joy Reid]

you always know when we go live.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay, let me pick up one of our amazing sponsors.

[Joy Reid]

This hour of the Joy Read show is brought to you by our [e-mail]

[Co-host/Commentator]

they call us readers for a reason. We like to read.

[Joy Reid]

We like books.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And would you be surprised to learn

[Joy Reid]

that we are living through a resurgence of independent bookstores? That is true. More than 1,000 new bookstores have opened in just the last five years.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Independent bookstores do more than just sell books.

[Joy Reid]

They take care of the community. They pour back into their communities. They create safe spaces that foster culture and community and a love of reading. Great places to take your kids. It's just a great place to be when you are a reader like myself.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Now when you purchase from bookshop.org, you

[Joy Reid]

are supporting more than 3,000 local independent bookstores so they can continue their essential work. You know, I love to read my

[Co-host/Commentator]

good history books, but also you can get books that are about love and romance.

[Joy Reid]

You know, Jackie Reed is making me read all these romance novels for Read this, Read that.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So I read Those too.

[Joy Reid]

And bookshop.org is a great place to get them.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So if you want to avail yourself of our discount, you can just use

[Joy Reid]

the code joy@bookshop shop.org to get 10% off your next [e-mail] we appreciate you bookshop.org for sponsoring this show. Okay, so I feel like the endless

[Co-host/Commentator]

story, the story that will not die,

[Joy Reid]

is the story of Cheyenne Bryant.

[Co-host/Commentator]

She would like us to call her Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, but to do that,

[Joy Reid]

she'd have to actually change her name

[Co-host/Commentator]

to Dr. Cheyenne Bryant.

[Joy Reid]

Because I ain't going there.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Let me play you the viral clip

[Joy Reid]

by Reverend Jamal Bryant who commented about his role in making that lady famous.

[Brian]

I shouldn't even have to do this. It's ridiculous. Over a month ago, I came to you and apologized for platforming Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. I felt I had a responsibility considering my sister is the former president of the American Psychological association, one of the youngest to ever hold that position. Not soon after that, I received an email, a cease and desist, not to mention her name or to speak to the controversy. I scanned down to the bottom and it was not from a lawyer, not from an attorney, not anybody who was barred. It was from Cheyenne Bryant herself. I said, I'm gonna walk away. I do not want to be a part of black on black crime. So I let it go. Never addressed it, never mentioned it again until I received this email on yesterday from Dr. Jaquel Pitts who is serving as the president of Indiana Southwest Christian University, who said to me in writing that Dr. Cheyenne Bryant has just received her PhD in theocentric psychology. I did a quick Google search. Indiana. The whole state does not recognize Indiana. Southwestern Christian University is not registered. The president claimed that the degree is in theocentric psychology. Again, I didn't even use Claude or chat GPT. Google, the cheapest one says that field centric psychology shifts a person from ego to universal thought. I don't even know what that means. The president goes on to say that they cannot provide any transcripts. I send a one line email. Who are y' all accredited by? And he sent me back this accreditation religio seal. I don't know what this means, but ladies and gentlemen, the last line that I've highlighted for you is no transcript can be provided. I'm not going back and forth with y'.

[Erin Haynes]

All.

[Brian]

The president of Indiana Southwest Christian University doesn't even have a college email. Jackwell Pitts is on Gmail, so if you want to transcript, email him directly and maybe he'll be able to give you answers. I'm not able to provide y'.

[Unidentified Commentator]

All.

[Brian]

Let's shut the case on Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. The only robes I want to see people in are the 500 kids who are trying to go to Howard and accredited school.

[Erin Haynes]

God bless you.

[Joy Reid]

God bless you too, Brian.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And it just got worse from there because the owner and proprietor of said university did an interview with one Mark Lamont Hill.

[Joy Reid]

And here's how that went only once.

[Unidentified Supporter]

So literally, the university was created.

[Poet/Performer]

Who's that one?

[Ture]

Is it Cheyenne Bryant?

[Unidentified Supporter]

Cheyenne Bryant. The university was just established in May of 2026. So in regard to Dr. Bryant's narrative about the school not being registered, it was just started in May of 2026, so it's not going to have any type of standing online as it was just established in May of 2026.

[Ture]

How many doctors have you given out total since May?

[Joy Reid]

Only one.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Joining me now is the Cheyenne Bryant, correspondent for the Internet, the person who's been probably covering this with more depth than anyone other than Mark Lamont Hill Ture

[Joy Reid]

TV here on YouTube.

[Co-host/Commentator]

What is the actual. I have watched so many of your videos on this ture that I feel like I really deeply know the story now. But for those who are not as deeply embedded in it as I have unfortunately become, what the actual hell is going on?

[Ture]

So, okay, the first thing that I thought when I heard that Cheyenne finally got a degree was that she had conspired with this person to give her a quickie degree. So then she would shut us all up. I don't think that's what would have happened. And that would be more nefarious than what has actually happened. Right. I want to call a spade a spade. What I think happened is this brother, Dr. Jaquel Pitts, decided to confer a degree upon her with his university that just started in May. It is an honorary degree that pretends to be an earned degree. He keeps calling it an earned degree. This is a field you have to study in for a few years. Right. But the school just opened in May, so I don't know how that could be. But he decided to do this perhaps because he likes her as a person in the world, perhaps because he feels bad for her. Maybe he likes her on a different level. Maybe he sees this as a way to get some attention for himself and or his new university. But none of the things that we have been asking for. Show us a dissertation. Show us that you actually got through the academic program. Finished the academic program. You know, it's interesting that she and I are in this story together kind of. I did three years of undergrad and I had like an intellectual crisis, like why do I need to get the paper? Why do I need to finish the thing? I know all this. Why do I need to come back for another fourth year? Why don't I go into the workforce and start trying to become a writer? And the people older than me could not explain to me. So I went into the world not with without an undergrad degree and started to do my thing. And then I said, you know what? An advanced degree would help. So I went to Columbia University and we had a whole conversation, the whole process, but they let me in. Despite not having an undergrad, I didn't finish that program either because I was like, I've learned a lot. I need to go and continue being a professional writer. Actually, KRS1 was like, come with me to Europe and we're going to work on my autobiography together. And I'm like, I'm going to go do that. I'm later for school. I have never Joy told anyone I graduated from Emory. I graduated from Columbia. I never told anyone I have any advanced degrees. I just moved through the world with what I know in my mind. She decided she needed to add titles to her stuff to have legitimacy. So she added fake titles. If she hadn't added the titles, she might be out here like, hey, I'm a professional life coach and it'll be fine. Yeah, you had to say, I'm a doctor when you're not.

[Joy Reid]

It's not even just that. It's that she low key threatens anyone who won't call her a doctor.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

I mean, it's like, it's one thing to sort of say it's something that I would like for you to call me, but she's effectively. I mean, she has sent cease and desist.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And you, you were my. I love the clip where you're like, where's my cease and desist? Like, I need a cease and desist.

[Ture]

What do I have to do? Like, how did he get a cc? I did it.

[Co-host/Commentator]

You know what?

[Joy Reid]

I think maybe it's the same way

[Co-host/Commentator]

that you didn't get your Emory or your Columbia degree. Right? You just went through with the process.

[Ture]

You know what? It's like? It's like, why am I not on the Drake hater list? Like, what more do I have to do to not have him talking about me on the records? Like, what? What do I have to do?

[Co-host/Commentator]

How is Nicki Minaj, like, tweeting shit

[Joy Reid]

at me and not putting me in a diss track?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Like, bitch, can I get on a diss track? Can I just get, like, give me 16 bars about me?

[Ture]

Would you love to get diss by Nicki Minaj on a record?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yes,

[Ture]

that would be awesome.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, because it would. But they won't play with us. I don't understand.

[Joy Reid]

But the thing about it is, I get that she built a brand around expertise in delivering advice, but to your point, you don't need a degree to do that.

[Co-host/Commentator]

You can be a life coach and not be degreed, which is a problem.

[Ture]

But she could have, but she could have exploited that loophole.

[Co-host/Commentator]

She could have explored that loophole.

[Joy Reid]

But I feel like she put herself so far out on a limb as this expert, this degree expert, there really is no going back now, right? No, there's. There's no going back for her.

[Ture]

Well, but not going back is her. That's her personality. She told me early on Stephen A. Smith was one of her broadcasting mentors. And I say mentor as far as parasocially, she doesn't know him, but like watching him and like he was one of her north stars as far as how you do this broadcasting thing. So doubling down and she'll talk about it all the time, about doubling down is what she's all about. So if, you know, if you. On any number of things. So when this started, I knew that she was trapped because of course she's going to double down. And she only keeps saying more. I assert that I'm a doctor, end of conversation. I double down on that. I quadruple down on that. Well, just show us some evidence. No, I refuse to show you because you don't have any evidence. Yeah, it's obvious that you don't have any evidence.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah, because it isn't a thing. I mean, and the guy who conferred the degree, I couldn't really, I couldn't sort of figure him out because like you, I thought, oh, maybe he's just a fan.

[Co-host/Commentator]

That he said, I like her so

[Joy Reid]

much and I'm just such a fan that I'm gonna fix this for her. I'm gonna proactively do it. But he didn't do it the normal way that you would do it. They could have conferred an honorary degree. Like people have honorary degrees. Right?

[Ture]

But she's got a ton of them. That would be meaningless. Yeah, she needs an earner. I was waiting and Mark, our friend Mark, did a great job with that interview. And he's asking just the right questions. And I was waiting for him to say who started this conversation. And then the brother, Dr. Pitt said, well, we actually haven't talked, not since I became president. We talked before, but we're not like friends. Because I was waiting. Maybe Cheyenne called him and just let him know, hey, this would be a really nice thing if you were to do this. Like, God, all the time we've been talking about this, she could have been like, I'm in a program figuring it out. But like, it's double down culture. Her community is called the doc squad. So I don't know how she turns to the doc Squad and says I don't actually. And it's very Trumpian in that.

[Joy Reid]

Like, I was just going to ask you that.

[Ture]

See me as a doctor, even though I am not. And you know I'm not. But these are not the droids you're looking for. I am a doctor, like we doing.

[Joy Reid]

I feel like I was just going to ask you that because I feel like Donald Trump, one of his big influences on the culture is that right? He, no matter what evidence is placed in front of him, not only will he not admit that he lost the 2020 election, we have just seen another round of potential federal judges who cannot and will not say he lost the election. No one who wants a job in the administration, who wants to be in the cabinet, who wants any. They won't say he's convinced an entire political party that they may not and must not say that he lost that election. It's like a, it's like a shared delusion. But after a while, like maybe she starts to believe the delusion, but then

[Ture]

it trickles down to Matt Miller. Right. Running for Congress. Right. Like in Indiana. Right. He's in Indiana.

[Erin Haynes]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

Matt Miller, I believe is in Indiana or Ohio.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, I'm gonna look it up and,

[Ture]

and you know, credibly charged with like beating up his wife may have caused his child significant injury. Just horrific stories coming out of the breakup of their marriage and their post marriage life. And he's basically like, nobody's charged me, I'm still.

[Co-host/Commentator]

He's Ohio, by the way. Ohio. As a matter of fact, his father in law is Bernie Moreno, the junior senator from Ohio who had all that

[Joy Reid]

smoke for RFK Jr but near smoke for the guy who maybe threw boiling water on his daughter.

[Co-host/Commentator]

But go.

[Ture]

I mean, you know, just like there's a time we're old enough to remember a time when a whisper like this would have someone running from the race. And now you dump all this on Matt Miller. Credible challenges, credible allegations, horrific stuff. And he's like, I'm staying in the race. That's Trumpian. Right. Trump keeps doing it. And you see it in Cheyenne. You see it also in Kanye. Like the Trump way of insisting that unreality is reality is sort of spreading to other people. I don't remember this being this prevalent in society 15, 20 years ago, like prior to Trump.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Joy Reid]

And I also think I can bring in the idea that if you're challenged, the reaction is just maximum hostility.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I feel like that's what Jay Z did.

[Joy Reid]

You challenge him on the target brand and he goes like, DEFCON 1 on

[Co-host/Commentator]

his own fans for shopping at Walmart. Right.

[Joy Reid]

It's like, it's almost like Trump has created this culture where it's like you maximalize tripling down no matter what.

[Ture]

Yeah, yeah. And it's corrosive to the way that we communicate, the way we interact, the way that society flows. There should be a flushing out of certain people if you do horrific things. You should have to go back to private life. Like, that is not a big difficult thing. And yet we're sort of stuck in this way where horrific people feel emboldened to just stay in the race, just stay in office. It's sort of an epidemic. And I don't know how, like, even post Trump, how we go back to the sort of level of just decency that we insisted on from people.

[Joy Reid]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I don't know.

[Joy Reid]

And by the way, I have a solution for Cheyenne Bryant. Much like Dr. Dre and Dr. Seuss, she could simply just make her, you know, literally change her name. I don't know if Dr. Dre is. That's on his, you know, if he added a new birth certificate, but she could, like, literally just legally change her name to Dr. Cheyenne Bryant, and then

[Co-host/Commentator]

she really would be Dr. Cheyenne Bryant.

[Ture]

That's hysterical. And then her actual first name would be Dr.

[Joy Reid]

Doctor.

[Ture]

Her actual middle name would be Cheyenne.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yes.

[Ture]

That's hysterical.

[Co-host/Commentator]

J.D. vance did it, brother. If J.D.

[Joy Reid]

vance can be 18 different names by

[Co-host/Commentator]

the time he got to date events, ain't no date events on his birth certificate.

[Joy Reid]

He, John, Donald, Emil, or whatever.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Just change your first name to Dr. Baby.

[Ture]

Do wonder. I mean, it's funny. And I. And I get it. I do wonder where. Where you. Where you get in trouble pretending to be a doctor. Like, I believe. I haven't read the legal code, but I believe that's illegal to pretend to be a doctor. Dr. Dray is not offering any medical services. So nobody is confused. Right? Dr. J is only operating on you on the court. Nobody is confused. Cheyenne is saying. Saying, I am a doctor. I am Shan Boudran. I am Iliana Vasant. Right. I am here to help you. And you know that because I'm a doctor.

[Erin Haynes]

Wait a minute.

[Ture]

You're not. I think part of what we're witnessing here is a mental illness moment in public. Like, you know, because this level of sort of lying about yourself and insisting that the lie is true, this long, this deep. I mean, this needs to be like, somebody should be, like, taking care of you to understand, like, what's going on

[Co-host/Commentator]

like she needs a doctor.

[Ture]

That's what I'm saying.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yes. She reminds me of the congressman who

[Joy Reid]

lied about his entire life and said that his family was at 9 11.

[Co-host/Commentator]

He actually ended up getting in trouble.

[Joy Reid]

George Santos.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Right.

[Joy Reid]

George Santos, who ended up actually going to, you know, getting convicted of a crime because he was not only lying about his identity and his connections to 911 and just everything about himself, but was also scamming, like, money. You know what I mean? And you're right. At a certain point, the lie isn't funny. Like, she's not saying she's Doctor who and she's from space.

[Co-host/Commentator]

She's saying she's a doctor who can

[Joy Reid]

actually cure like mental illness.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Like, that's dangerous.

[Ture]

I mean, in a world, in a world where, you know, black folks, I feel like historically it's like 10 or 15 years that we've been like open to therapy, but before that it was like, that's some white shit. We don't do that. Like, we keep it inside or we talk to each other, whatever we told each other. And like the last 10 or 15 years, I think more and more black people are like, no, I love therapy. You know, that's one of the good things about Charlemagne, the God, that he's constantly like, you know, therapy is a good thing. He's really helping turn the image of therapy away from just for white folks, for us as well. And Cheyenne pollutes that whole conversation because she's saying, I can give you psychological psychiatric help, but you're not truly educated enough to do it. You're not truly, definitely not educated enough to do the difficult cases. You could probably do an easy, average case, but you're not ready for a serious case case. And especially when you're out here talking about spanking and high vibrational people and doctorial. And I'm like, girl, what?

[Co-host/Commentator]

She's like, beat your kids and do that little Netflix thing where you say

[Joy Reid]

you're making a movie about yourself.

[Co-host/Commentator]

That is the way of the world.

[Joy Reid]

Like, it's, it's wild.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And by the way, I'm going to

[Joy Reid]

put a question in the group, in

[Co-host/Commentator]

the chat, and my chat is going to be, which doctor would you trust

[Joy Reid]

the most with your mental health?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Dr. Dre, Dr. J. Dr. Who or Dr. Cheyenne Bryant? You pick one of those four. It's not even fair. I'm just saying I'm going to. I feel like Dr. J would help me the most because he's been so successful on the court that his advice would be useful. But Dr. Who would be pretty dope to talk to as well.

[Ture]

I would, I would be curious to know if the Joy Reid audience was. Was saying I feel a spiritual or a psychological problem. And you were offered Cheyenne or Iyanla. I say your name right?

[Joy Reid]

Ayanla Van Zandt.

[Ture]

Right. I mean, and I know some people love her and some people have problems with her.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Problems with her for sure.

[Ture]

I, you know, so I, It's a

[Co-host/Commentator]

no brainer for me.

[Ture]

Well, which one would you do?

[Joy Reid]

Ayanla.

[Ture]

Okay. I mean, I know I had Ayanla on my podcast and I knew that she was beloved by many and respected by many. I was not at the beginning of the interview in that camp. I was just like, respect you as a professional who's been rocking for a long time. I think this could be an interesting conversation. But I don't, I don't know. I'm not, you know, I'm not like, necessarily a fan. And when we got into like actually kind of really talking about her work, it was like, oh, she's deep, she's real, she's gifted, she's trained. She's like serious with it. Like, I could feel like this woman is like deep and extra, you know, and like real with it. So I'd vote for her as well. But I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Is Cheyenne. Has Cheyenne taken that role for some of your fans who are a little bit younger and Ayanla feels like I'm talking to my aunt, but Cheyenne feels like I'm talking to my. My sister friend. Like, I don't know. I don't know.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Oh, I pray not.

[Joy Reid]

Because we care about our readers and we want them to be mentally well.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Tarae. You guys all should be following Ture on terrai tv, but just in case you're not. How dare you.

[Joy Reid]

We're gonna put the link in below. Please continue to vote in our poll.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Ture, what you got coming up on.

[Ture]

You know, I just did a whole video about wearing the bonnet outside.

[Joy Reid]

I saw. I started that and paused it because I needed a minute.

[Ture]

Is that okay or is it not okay? Not okay. But also is trying to wrestle, like, is it respectability politics, right?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Maybe we're being old auntie and uncle. Right?

[Ture]

I mean, or just, just because I don't think, I don't think that we care about the bonnet at the cookout. If it's just the black folks, it's fine, whatever. She's in her bonnet, whatever.

[Co-host/Commentator]

But in the airport.

[Ture]

So then it's. It's so Then it is respectability politics.

[Joy Reid]

It is and it's probably elitist and

[Co-host/Commentator]

I need to let it go.

[Ture]

Mean it doesn't mean we're wrong. Yeah but part of what I thought about was it. It's kind of a welfare queen symbol. Doesn't mean you are a welfare queen. But you're giving welfare queen and you're reminding us of welfare queen queen. And we did not create the welfare queen. It was something that was used and weaponized against us. So I think it's fair for us to say that is making us look bad.

[Co-host/Commentator]

You know who we should ask terry about this? Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. Who is the equivalent of Dr. Who when it comes to psychology. Terrae. I appreciate you my friend.

[Ture]

Thanks Joy. Bye bye.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So. Okay. Well thank you very much. We appreciate you. There is always great for a giggle.

[Ture]

Thank you.

[Co-host/Commentator]

So before we let you guys go we have got to get to our moment of joy. Because after that you're now psychologically healthy. You've gotten Terry to help you out with your.

[Joy Reid]

With your. With your mentals.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And now our moment of joy comes from a gentleman who's calling it. It's called Jamaican nephew eats pigeon. And that's the name of the moment of joy. Here it is. Moment of joy.

[Ture]

Guys.

[Silk King]

I ate a pigeon in Egypt and my Jamaican uncle is still processing it. Yes, big boss. I'm out here in Egypt and I just ate stuffed pigeon for the first time. Tell me this doesn't look crazy. No, tastes good. You gotta try this one day.

[Unidentified Commentator]

What do you see the pan? You mean to tell me say you go all across the world.

[Silk King]

It's farmed. So they farm the pigeons and they stuff it with rice and they cook it in like a meticulous way. But it's very clean. Fam.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Hassan. Stop baramisul with your foolishness. Farm bird. His blood clot. Pigeon. Yanya, my guy pigeon brother.

[Silk King]

You're a fake. Bald headed roster. I see you eat pork all the time.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Real bad.

[Silk King]

Mana swine and dying. You tell me you can't even eat pigeon one time. That was a bar. High key.

[Unidentified Commentator]

That was a low down sinful dirty chat. Yeah, pass your place, you know.

[Ture]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Pass your place.

[Silk King]

The only thing that's gonna pass is time. You gotta try stuff like this before you die. You know what I mean? Come on.

[Unidentified Commentator]

Picnic boy may not know which dope is saying. If you come trouble me so that evening. Yeah, but remember me told you this. There is a reason why them call it dietary restriction. Because if you not restrict yourself you will dead D E D Dead. Know yourself.

[Co-host/Commentator]

And that is our moment of joy from Silk King on Instagram. Do follow him.

[Joy Reid]

S Y L K King on Instagram.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Thank you all for watching. We appreciate y' all have a great

[Joy Reid]

night and we'll see you on the next the Joy Read.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Show peace.

[Poet/Performer]

Getting back to the basics? Grassroot level? Let me dig a little deeper with the shovel? Plenty? Can't tell the force from the trees? That I'm hard to detect? Like a black hole in the dark? Injustice anywhere? It's a threat to justice everywhere? Let me make this clear? I got a bone to pick? And I'll never fear the threat of poverty? They don't want to talk about it? They rap the party? So I'm a real talk about it for sure.