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- [00:01]
Joy Reid
Shopping is hard.
- [00:03]
Michelle Eisen
I can never find anything in my size.
- [00:05]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
I don't even know my size.
- [00:07]
Michelle Eisen
I buy my clothes the same place I buy my groceries.
- [00:10]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
There's a better way.
- [00:11]
Joy Reid
Make it easy with Stitch Fix.
- [00:13]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Just share your size, style, budget, and done.
- [00:16]
Michelle Eisen
Your personal stylist sends pieces picked just for you. That was easy.
- [00:21]
Joy Reid
Stitch Fix online personal styling for everyone. Free shipping and returns. No subscription required.
- [00:28]
Michelle Eisen
Get started today@stitch fix.com.
- [00:32]
Joy Reid
Okay, there. Happy weekend, Junior everybody. Especially in the chat, folks were like, cue the music. I love the fact that you guys know what's coming and you are prepared for the Food Chain intro every single time. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Joy Re show. Thank you all for tuning in. I love the music, too, actually. I love the whole song. And at some point, I hope you guys head over to the Food Chain channel and listen to the whole song. It's actually great. It's called. Well, actually. But thank you all for being here. Big up to everybody in the chat, of course, on YouTube, but also on Substack. We love the folks in the stacks, also the readers that are listening to the show on podcast in audio form. We try to make sure that we're very descriptive of the things that you're that we are seeing and that you're hearing so you guys can enjoy as well. Thanks to everybody who has patronized the Joy Read store. It is shop.joy.com I'm wearing some of the merch. This is one of my favorite pieces of merch, is the Team tjrs sweatshirt. What I'm doing is I'm ordering them so I can try them out so I can see how they feel. See if they're soft, if they're comfy and cushy. See if I want to wear them all the time. I love the backpack I've been wearing. I've been taking that backpack everywhere. If y' all have seen me, you know that I'm in that backpack because I've been stuffing stuff in it. It fits a lot of stuff. But if you are rocking some of the merch, please make sure that you put that hashtag wearing Joy or that hashtag readers in your post. Please tag us. Tag me at Joyan Reid. You can tag the show at Joy Reed show on Instagram. You can also tag us on Tik Tok. So that's getting that work out of the way. Before we jump into the show in chief, I want to make sure that I read you guys a couple of stories that are some headlines that are happening. I think the main Two concerns that people have out there are obviously the shutdown and the SNAP situation. So let me give you the SNAP part first, because this is about whether people eat or not. This is really important. Now the Department of Agriculture is saying that full Supplemental Nutrition and Assistance Program, SNAP benefits are on the way. Snap, the USDA told states today, Friday. But when and whether those benefits will actually reach the 42 million Americans who rely on them to eat remains an open question. The USDA is working to comply with a court order to provide those benefits by the end of today, the department said in a memo that was sent to state administrators later today. They will, they say they'll complete the processes necessary to make funds available to support your subsequent transmittal of full issuance files to your EBT processor. That's a fancy way of saying not partial benefits like they were saying earlier in the week, but full benefits. Not half, not 60%, all of it. But nobody knows if that's going to happen on time. So people still might swipe their cards and not get them. I will note, though, that the Trump administration, the regime, as we call them, they appealed. They did not accept this court decision that they had to provide food to 42 million Americans. They appealed. But during that appeal, they're going to allow the USDA to keep paying benefits. Think about that for a moment. The guy who threw the Great Gatsby party and who boasted about and flaunted the ugly, hideous marble bathroom that they've put into the White House with a chandelier over the toilet, similar to what he has in Mar a Lago. Remember, he was hiding our classified documents in one of his bathrooms. He has chandeliers over his toilets. It's a thing. The guy who knocked down our East Wing to build himself a gold Epstein Ballroom for $300 million. That is going to be like a NASCAR thing with stickers from all the billionaires on it who are giving him money, plus updating his Fuhrer bunker. That guy is like, yeah, I'm going to appeal. I'm not going to accept that. We're going to pay these people their money to let them eat with the kids eating. F them kids. F them kids. A second thing I think we got to talk about is this shutdown. So Chuck Schumer and the Democrats actually offered a deal to try to end the shutdown. Of course. So the Senate is the only side that's working. The House went home and they've been home for nearly a month. This is the longest shutdown officially in US History. The previous longest shutdown in history was also under Trump the first time he was president. This now is the longest. And Republicans led by John Thune in the Senate have rejected an offer from Senate Democrats who are still going to work. Every day. Senate Democrats are actually at work. The House is disbanded because Mike Johnson won't let them work. The Senate is trying. They put in a pitch that Chuck Schumer rolled out on the floor of the Senate today. The offer would be a clean continuing. What is it? A clean continuing resolution. But they want a one year extension of these subsidies for Obamacare. So they want a one year extension of the Obamacare subsidies, which would forestall that huge increase in premiums. It would stop that from happening for millions of Americans who are on Obamacare. So they would get that time for a year and then they would have time to create a longer term solution. John Thune said absolutely no. The Obamacare extension is the is the big ask that Democrats are making in order to give the votes to Republicans to reopen the government. Republicans are saying absolutely not. They will not extend those subsidies to regular people. While again, Trump gets his ballroom and his marble bathroom with the chandelier on top. But extending the subsidies, which is the thing Democrats are asking for. John TH has called that proposal a non starter, a non. This would just be a short term extension. And the Republicans are saying absolutely not. Everything else would remain the same. They said no. The third thing is flights. If any of you are traveling this weekend, some 700 flights are going to be canceled. The FAA, that's led by the guy from the real world, Boston, he also is in charge of NASA, by the way. He's in charge of everything. They're going to shut down 700 flights nationwide for safety reasons. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says it's not about politics, it's about safety because air traffic controllers are working for free and there's a concern that they're too stressed to really safely control the airwaves. So you should check your flights if you're planning to fly this weekend. Jason and I are flying on this weekend. So far our flight is going. But check your flights to make sure that your flight is not canceled because it's a mess out there. All of this because of the shutdown that Republicans could end at any time. All they have to do is say that regular Americans get the same deal that the super rich got when their temporary tax cut of 2017 was made permanent. All the Democrats are saying is do the same thing for the regular people. You made the rich people's tax Cut permanent. Do the same thing for the regular guy. Make the Obamacare premium assistances, make that permanent, too. Republicans are like, no. And Chuck Schumer's not even asking for permanent, which he should. Instead of going all the way and saying tit for tat, rich people got their thing. We want the poor to get their thing or the regular people to get their thing. He's just saying, give us a year of an extension or a few months. They're like, no, no extension. Just so that you know that that's where we are. And by the way, this sort of oligarchy is happening. We're going to talk about this more in the second hour of the show. While we now have officially our first trillionaire on earth, and it's of course, in America, the country with the most billionaires on earth. And you can tell that this week the right went into panic mode over all of this. They can see that. We can see the oligarch. We can see the oligarchy. We, we know what's happening. We realize they're stealing and we now want to stop the steal. We see them grifting off of our tax dollars. We see them stealing to make themselves richer. And we're like, stop the steal for real. And they seem to be panicking because that blue wave showed them what could really happen next year if we still have free and fair elections. So here I want you to listen to Trump, architect, Trumpism architect, I should say former Trump campaign manager, former White House political strategist during the first Trump administration, the man who bragged about making Breitbart.com the home of the white nationalist alt right. He just said make it the home of the alt right. Before he got busted for defrauding MAGA cultists with a fake build the wall charity scheme and a bunch of, with a bunch of his fraudy friends. Here he is, Steve Bannon, talking about his fears.
- [09:18]
Curtis Yarvin
More urgency. We're burning daylight. If you look across every aspect of this, we have to codify what President Trump has done by executive order, right? We, we have to codify it. And people say, well, they're just going to be messing bills campaign Senate. We got to, we got to put aside these structural barriers and get on with it. President Trump today gave to the Senate when they came over for breakfast, even Lindsey Graham, some of the guys that liked and some of these institutions. I understand this is a very tough decision to make. And you're going to see some people in the conservative movement that not in a million years, because I talked to them today, quite frankly. I had Hawley on the show this morning, Josh Hawley, and he's talking about it, and I'm trying to play the institution well. Well, they called me up this afternoon and said, let's go through the 10 reasons we need to do it. And these are heavy hitters on what I would call the Constitution, the limited government constitutionalist in our movement. And they're about to come out over the next couple days and make this argument because he said, look, we have to understand that if we don't take this to the maximum, a maximalist strategy now with a sense of urgency, and in doing this, seize the institutions. If we don't do that now, we're going to lose this chance forever.
- [10:35]
Joy Reid
Do we get the top of that, Jason? Did you get the top of it? Let's see if we can play it again, because I think I did get it. Did we get the top where he said we're going to jail? I didn't hear that part.
- [10:44]
Curtis Yarvin
And I will tell you right now, as God is my witness, if we lose the midterms and we lose 20, 28, some in this room are going to prison, myself included.
- [10:55]
Joy Reid
Okay, we can leave it there. That that's what I wanted to hear. So he said we got to seize the institutions, we got to fight harder. We got to make sure we codify all the stuff Trump did by executive order. But that top part is important because he said we're going to jail if we don't win these midterms, because he knows a lot of this stuff. You know, statute of limitations might not have run on it. And Bannon would know about crime in jail. He got pardoned by Trump after getting busted by federal prosecutors for that Build the Wall scam, where they were scamming people, getting them to donate to Build the Wall and privately fund it, but they were keeping the money for themselves. Very. Trump, like Bannon, also spent four months in prison for contempt of Congress for refusing to show up and testify before the January 6th commission. His pardon did not spare old Stevie from state prosecutors in New York, who also went at him for that scam on Trump supporters, the Build the Wall scam. He actually pleaded guilty quietly in February so he could stay out of jail. And his deal was to stay out of jail. It was a three year conditional discharge, but it requires him to stay out of trouble to avoid additional punishment. So, yeah, the participation thing, it's a real thing that he worries about. It's suboptimal if they lose and all of a sudden people who actually care about the country are in charge of Congress and the judiciary starts to get reined in. So that's something that he clearly understands. But the main thing that Bannon and the rest of the right have been up to, when they weren't stealing and we were trying to stop the steal, is trying to rinse this country clean of diversity, literally by terrorizing brown people in these streets and deporting and detaining them, even shipping them off to countries they've never heard of, but also removing any person of color that they can from key positions in corporate America, in the military, in academia. It's like all encompassing. 300,000 black women have already lost jobs, and that's probably a month old. So that could be even more than that now. There have been mass attacks on communities from Chinatown or Chicago. Brown folks are scared to go to school, go to work. And it's all aimed at a clear purpose. Trump has ordered a number of his claimed nuclear purpose, which is basically ethnic cleansing, making the country whiter, right, Giving white Americans more power and authority. Trump has also ordered a number of his claimed enemies to be investigated or prosecuted. They've been a real mixed bag on this case. There have been prosecutors who've gone after his crimes. Letitia James, they're trying to go at Fani Willis in Atlanta investigating her. They've gone after Jack Smith, who's apparently gearing up to fight them. James Comey, also fighting them. Trump's ex national security adviser John Bolton, pleaded not guilty. But the latest person to score the attention of Pamela Joe in her never ending attempt to do anything but release the Epstein files is D.C. mayor Muriel Bowser, per the New York Times. Federal prosecutors have opened a corruption investigation into the D.C. mayor Muriel Bowser examining a foreign trip she took with members of her staff that was paid for by Trump's new friends in Cutter, according to people familiar with the inquiry. The investigation, which is being handled by the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, has been underway for months, but could face significant hurdles to because of the known facts of the case and recent turmoil inside the Justice Department. This week, the FBI agent who was leading the investigation was fired by the Trump administration for having taken part in a criminal inquiry into Donald Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election. The public Corruption Unit inside the prosecutor's office that would typically be responsible for pushing this case forward has also been badly damaged by a series of dismissals and resignations stemming from Mr. Trump's efforts to seek revenge against Justice Department officials and his perceived enemies. This is the moment where I remind you that Muriel Bowser, Mayor Bowser, has struck an unusually accommodating tone when it comes to Trump's military occupation of D.C. to the horror of many black folks in the District. But she's also the mayor who presided over renaming part of Pennsylvania Avenue Black Lives Matter Plaza. And Trump is nothing if not a guy who never forgets what he thinks of. As a slight more proof that bending the knee gains you nothing but back to the core ethos of this regime. It was explained best by this clip posted by the Heritage foundation, the authors of Project 2025. And the person you're about to hear is right wing podcaster Benny Johnson, who of course is lauding Charlie Kirk in this clip.
- [15:03]
Curtis Yarvin
Is anybody married in here? I've been happily married, yes. Good. Well done. The Charlie Kirk billboard had an effect on your life. You know, diversity is not your strength. If you married somebody who doesn't speak your language and you can't communicate with and you have nothing in common with. Diversity is not the strength. When I took an Uber from the airport an hour ago, Mohammed had no idea where the hell I was going. And Muhammad and I did not, did not connect. Okay, that was not my strength with Muhammad, alright? But because I watched Barack Obama win in this building, that was sort of the beginning of that insanity. And we've lived through that fever dream for the last 10 years, haven't we, with some of those cultural poisons that he foisted upon our nation. Maybe because of our guilt, taken advantage of us because of our guilt. Or Christianity just being nice, where we accept these preposterous ideas that are untrue. It's untrue with your own family, it's untrue in your church, it's untrue in my Uber, and it's untrue in the military, especially when lives are on the line. Thank you for you being here tonight. Because that's just something so, so, so commonly true. And I think as we move forward as a country, and I just want to thank the leaders at Heritage for this, and it's something that we can do in Charlie's honor, because it's something that Charlie constantly devoted himself to, is to fight that poison where it first metastasizes, which is the campus, it happens on the campus. That's where it first starts. And to fight that poison and to say, no, it's actually okay that, like, we have a Christian country, isn't it? Like, I'm not ashamed of the fact that our currency says In God We Trust. And it also says so on buildings all across this city in giant 3 foot tall letters carved into granite. And I'm not ashamed of that, in fact. And we should embrace that common thread and we should embrace that history as a country. Because we are a country set up for a moral and good people, as John Adams would say. And none other in fact.
- [16:58]
Joy Reid
And none other in fact. And who are the moral and good people. First of all, the country is not a Christian country. And it doesn't say which God we trust. And the people who created the country were deists, not the kind of Christian you are, if you can call yourself a Christian at all. And it's not a Christian nation. It just actually isn't. I know they want it to be, but you heard that ethos. This is the current iteration of the right. This is what they believe. That America is fundamentally a white Christian country that was made solely for white Christians. Remember the Senator Eric Schmidt of Missouri said it. He said it's a white country, a white Christian country made only for white Christians, period. They believe that this country was made for white people who are Christians and who God said, have the sole guardianship of all positions of leadership, all positions of power, all positions of authority. Anyone else who's here is here by their largess, with their permission. So Claudine Gay, for instance, cannot be the president of Harvard University because she is a black woman who, who will not be obedient to the Bill Ackman's of the world and stop those nasty little black and brown and Jewish students from protesting against Israel's genocide. How dare she. She shall not be allowed to do that in America. She must be removed. The two colonial states will stand side by side forever. And their belief that the European elect are entitled to all the land they crave by God's design, they cannot be questioned. They are not here, not ever. And the kind of like trick theory used to push Dr. Gay out of Harvard was to accuse her of plagiarism for inadequate citations. Not while she was president of Harvard, but in her doctoral thesis. Well, here we go again. I am holding here in my hand here in the dmv, University of Maryland Eastern Shore President Heidi Anderson has filed this defamation lawsuit against a former employee who has claimed or who claimed in multiple media interviews that Dr. Anderson plagiarized her 1986 doctoral dissertation which she completed when she did her D or PhD at Purdue University. The lawsuit claims that the former employee, Donna Satterley, began spreading the allegations in September. And the passages that are subject to the allegations appeared solely for this lawsuit in the dissertation's literature review section, which summarized prior research and properly cited other works. And joining me now is Dr. Heidi Anderson alongside her attorney, James Walker. Thank you both for being here.
- [19:21]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Thank you very much for having us, Joy.
- [19:23]
Joy Reid
So I, I, when I'm going through your, your lawsuit and, and one of the things that you are claiming is that this person went through and shared her allegations with multiple media outlets, including the Daily Wire, which should be interesting to folks. That's Ben Shapiro's organization, resulting in an October 6, 2025, publication by someone named Luke Rosiak and with Newsmax, where defendant repeated the false accusations during a televised interview on or about October 15, 2025. First of all, let's talk about your dissertation. Were you surprised that this person recovered it? And why do you think that she decided to accuse you of plagiarism?
- [20:08]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Well, Joy, I think, yes, I was very surprised that this would, when this came out, and I'm not quite sure why she would have accused me of that. I believe that what happens when you're in the public space, and especially when people are not liking what you do, or people don't want to go along with your plan, they really want to distract you, but also decide that, hey, this is an opportunity to speak against you. What I can tell you is this. My dissertation, my entire academic works was done with highest integrity. Number two. It was also done by, reviewed by a rigorous review committee. And my advisor worked with me daily and on this dissertation. And for your public to understand, a dissertation is just one part of what you work towards when you're going for a Ph.D. and so this attack, this on me is an attack on my advisor. It, it is an attack on the committee. It's an attack on the faculty who taught me at the institution, and it's an attack on my alma mater, Purdue University. Why? She did this?
- [21:16]
Joy Reid
Yeah. Do you know this person? Did you work with her?
- [21:21]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
I did not work with her. She's a faculty at our university and we have almost 1,000 faculty. It's very difficult for any president to know all of their faculty.
- [21:31]
Joy Reid
Sure.
- [21:31]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
And, and, and really, we don't have. I don't have to work with the faculty. That's the job of the other people on the campus. Dean's department chairs, those individuals.
- [21:42]
Joy Reid
Did, did you, did you take her public campaign against you as related to what happened to Dr. Claudine Gay at Harvard? Meaning this is a way that people who disliked Claudine Gay's testimony before Congress regarding Protest Israel on the Harvard campus, that they saw that it worked to accuse her of plagiarism, and that got rid of her, that made her resign. Do you think that this was part of a conservative effort to do the same to you?
- [22:13]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
I don't know whether that's the case or not, Joy, and I let my lawyer speak to that. But what I will say is, when you're a bold, courageous leader, you will have people who really want to come after you when you're in the public space. And basically, that is something that I think we have to turn and change the narrative here in this country. That should not be the case whether you're in the public setting or not. So I don't know if the two were connected, and I'll let my lawyer speak to that because we do have an ongoing investigation.
- [22:44]
Joy Reid
Please do. James Walker, welcome. Thank you for being here. Do you know Whether or not Dr. Donna Satterley is a conservative? Is this a public conservative? Do you think that this was an attempt, effectively declawing gay. Your client? We can't hear you. You're muted. Unmute. You got to hit that unmute button. You probably have your laptop muted there. Try.
- [23:22]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
James is. You can't hear him.
- [23:24]
Joy Reid
James is still muted. Yeah, I'm not sure why you're. I don't know. You got to hit. I gotta. You gotta try to unmute your laptop or your PC or your. If it's a Mac. Let me just put James backstage. Okay, we're putting you backstage. We're going to try to get your. Your audio right. So we can try to get your order. I'm going to stick with you for just one. One moment. And the question here, Dr. Anders. Oh, okay. So the question I do have is, do you know whether or not this person, Donna Satterley, is a conservative?
- [23:55]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
No, I don't know. At universities, we don't. We really don't ask faculty or staff whether they're conservative or not. That's. We are here, Joy, to really try to work on our students and transforming their lives. And our purpose here at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore is to take students where they're at and really help them become the global citizens that they are and what they become when they go out. HBCUs, we look at our students as part of our family, and we bring them in to really make them become wonderful citizens. As you know, HBCUs graduate more doctors, more lawyers, more health professionals, more teachers than any other institution.
- [24:39]
Joy Reid
And.
- [24:40]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
And we do this because we meet the students where they're at and recognize that when we transform them, they are going to go out into the world and transform their communities and become better citizens. And that's going to make everyone a much, much better place. So doesn't bother us whether our faculty are conservative or not. They are here to make sure they take care of students. And I have a wonderful group of faculty and staff.
- [25:07]
Joy Reid
Well, let me, let me go through this because University of Maryland Eastern Shore is a predominantly, you know, it's an historically black organization, black university. I'm not sure if people are aware of that, but I want to read a story. This is from something called Campus Reform and it says a white professor at an historically black university has filed a lawsuit saying she was targeted and fired because of her race. Donna Satterley, a tenured assistant professor of human ecology and child development who had worked at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore for more than 20 years, filed a lawsuit. She filed a lawsuit against the school in July after being terminated last year. The complaint includes a variety of allegations including harassment, disparate treatment and race based discrimination. She claims that you, Dr. Heidi Adamson has expressed a preference for African Americans in hiring of faculty and staff at the upper administration. In the upper administrations of the university exhibits a marked bias against Caucasian and Asian citizens, she says. She also notes that black faculty and administrators are paid vastly higher than, than others of similar or better qualifications per her complaint. So she is making the claim that as a white person she was subject to anti white discrimination. And she names you in that.
- [26:15]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
What's your response? My response is none of those things are true and it is an ongoing investigation. It's unfortunate my lawyer is not getting able to get.
- [26:27]
Joy Reid
I know we need to get him.
- [26:28]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Back so that he could respond. Yes, but because it is an ongoing investigation, Joy, I really need my lawyer to respond to that and I can't respond any more than just saying that it's not true.
- [26:40]
Joy Reid
Sure.
- [26:41]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
I would like to do though.
- [26:43]
Joy Reid
Yes, go for it.
- [26:48]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Yes. I would like to tell you a little bit about the University of Maryland Eastern Shore because you did kind of ask a question there. You teed it up for me very, very well. Thank you. Joy, you said the University of Maryland Eastern Shore is a historically black university and we are. But let me tell you this. We're not just a and HBCU. We are an 1890 HBCU. And what that means for your viewers, an 1890 land grant institution focuses on making sure that we build our university with our town in mind and with our community in mind. Let Me share with you what that means. We were founded with agriculture being the heart of who we are, but we've expanded most of your 1890 and it's only 19 of them in the country. They focus on health care, science, engineering, agriculture. That is at the heart of what we do. The reason I want to share that with you and your viewers is because here at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore, we are about to launch the first veterinary medicine school in the state of Maryland and only the second HBCU in the country. And if your viewers are familiar with farming or even if they have pets, they know there is a shortage of veterinarians around the country. And a very small percentage, only 1%, less than 1% of the veterinarians out there are black. So here we are about to launch this particular school, and it's because of who we are, we will be looking to also add that program to our other eight health profession programs that are already on our campus. And when I go back to looking at what we have in agriculture, the reason land grants are so important and so important for this nation is because we look at what's going on in our communities, whether it's health care disparities or food insecurity or here in Maryland, we look at the water and the water supply and what it's doing to the oysters or what it's doing to the crabs. How do we solve those particular problems? So our faculty and our staff and students work so closely with the community, and that's why you have extension officers in every county in those 19 states that have a land grant to make sure that we listen to our community partners and that we handle and take care of what those issues might be. To me, that is the true story here.
- [29:19]
Joy Reid
Joy, thank you very much.
- [29:21]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
How can this hbcu.
- [29:23]
Joy Reid
Yeah.
- [29:24]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Yes.
- [29:25]
Joy Reid
I'm sorry, finish your sentence. How can this hbcu.
- [29:29]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Yeah. How can this HBCU in Maryland stand up this particular new program in this new school? And basically, as my colleagues will tell you, HBCUs are punching way above their weight. And we stand on greatness here. 139 years is our institution. And I am so proud of that. Like I said, and proud of our students. I could go on and on and tell you all sorts of wonderful things about our campus.
- [29:55]
Joy Reid
I appreciate that, ma'. Am. Thank you so much. I want to note, and I hope we have James Walker back, because I want to ask you specifically this question. Mr. Walker, if we can get you back on Mike, this all is happening in the wake of Where I read about this white professor suing this HBCU and claiming she was subject to reverse discrimination. It had a few things that raised alarm bells for me. The fact that she named Asian students as well, which is the tactic that's commonly used when people go after affirmative action or dei. They try to dangle Asian American students out there so that it's not just like people making the claim Jesus. So that that raised a red flag for me. Where I read it on this campus reform website is touting all sorts of claims of anti white discrimination. So that raises a red flag for me. And the fact that this woman went on Newsmax and went on other right wing outlets to make the claim is why I asked you if you know what her ideology is, because she's certainly making the claim in right wing venues. And the third thing I'll note, Mr. Walker, there's a $38 million gift that was made to this college. The University of Maryland Eastern Shore received $38 million gift from philanthropist Mackenzie Scott. That happened not long before that happened. Not long before this lawsuit happened. Are you there, Mr. Walker? Oh, I don't know if we're going to get you back.
- [31:27]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
No, I could.
- [31:29]
Joy Reid
Please address that.
- [31:29]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
I can help you with that, please. Yes, I'd love to. Mackenzie Scott gave us a $38 million gift after these claims were made. And as your viewers know, Mackenzie Scott and her team do a thorough check on the university, on the leadership and the outcomes that the university is producing. But Joy, she didn't just give us $38 million here just a few weeks ago after this story. She had already given us 20 million five years ago. I have to tell your viewers when they call to say this is from mackenzie Scott and we're about to. We want to give you 38 million. I said, is this a hoax? Because why? You gave us 20 million five years ago. And I'm going to accept it, of course, but I just wanted to know why. And she said, because of the leadership and the works that you're doing. It was phenomenal. $58 million coming to our institution from Mackenzie Scott, not just one gift, but two, twice. And I have to tell you, these are the largest gifts in the history of our institution. I have rolled out a comprehensive campaign a few years ago and that campaign, now we're sitting at almost $90 million with her gifts. And at that we. I'm just going to say to your audience, anybody want to contribute? I look, I'm going to take a time here, Joy, to really ask your audience hey, help me reach that other 10 million and get, get up to, you know, my hundred million.
- [33:03]
Joy Reid
Well, all of our hundreds. They're very generous folks. Thank you very much. We are out of time for this segment, but let's see if attorney James Walker has is back on camera and could just give one comment before we, before we wrap the segment, your thoughts on whether or not this is an ideological attack on this university and attempt to essentially score another scalp for the right, another university president they might be able to remove.
- [33:28]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
I totally think, if you can hear me, I totally think it is.
- [33:32]
Joy Reid
Whenever you use the tactic of jumping on right wing outlets like Newsmax and the Daily Wire and all these kind of sites, you clearly know what you're doing.
- [33:44]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
This was clearly a tactic because I.
- [33:46]
Joy Reid
Know Joy that, that she did not name this plagiarism allegation in her lawsuit. Are you aware of that?
- [33:53]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
In her lawsuit she never mentioned plagiarism.
- [33:56]
Joy Reid
In her lawsuit, she talks about her.
- [33:58]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Employment history at the institution. So if you had such a strong claim of plagiarism, why didn't you put.
- [34:04]
Joy Reid
It in your lawsuit? So we filed a lawsuit against her for a million dollars because we clearly knew this was clearly a smear tactic, clearly a way of trying to oust.
- [34:13]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
This president just like they did our poor sister at Harvard.
- [34:16]
Joy Reid
Like they're doing down in Clayton. Like they're doing, I think VMI University of Maryland. There's so many other places around the.
- [34:22]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Country where they use this tactic to.
- [34:24]
Joy Reid
Try to somewhat get our people out of office. And we can't have that happen anymore.
- [34:29]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
We have to put an end to it right now.
- [34:30]
Joy Reid
And is the tactic of filing a lawsuit. And by the way, Mackenzie Scott, for those of you who don't know, that's Jeff Bezos ex wife. I just want to let y' all know that's the lady who divorced Jeff Bezos. That's who gave the $32 million and Final Exit question to you, sir. Is this a tactic because we haven't really seen this kind of a pushback in terms of filing a very large lawsuit against folks who are doing this kind of thing. You guys are sort of leading the way on that. Is that the reason you're doing it, to say, hey, if you guys are going to make these claims, we're going to come at you for big money?
- [35:01]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Joy, I'm doing this because I cannot stand by and see my campus hurt. I cannot stand by and see my students and my faculty and staff. They deserve better. An attack on me is attack on all of us.
- [35:16]
Joy Reid
Dr. Heidi, thank you so much. Dr. Heidi Anderson and her attorney, James Walker, thank you both for being here. Appreciate you all. And we will keep track of this lawsuit. Thank you so very much. All right. It's a big deal. And I think that the chat is firmly on the side of Dr. Anderson. Thank you very much. And let's quote Rosie stand cell in the chat, when you fight, you win. All right, let's take a moment to thank our sponsor, 120 Life and update y' all on our 120 Life journey. We have nearly cleaned out our supply over here in read world. 120 life has become literally part of my daily morning routine. I take it with my vitamins. It actually helps me remember to take my vitamins. I was bad about taking vitamins, but now I know I'm going to have my drink. I'm going to take my vitamins with it. At this point, Jason and I are basically running out of supply. We're splitting our initial rations and I suspect that somebody else that's in our house is drinking our juices as well. I think we need to run an investigation of who might be borrowing our juices because they're going fast. And the reason I think that people care about this is high blood pressure is actually super serious. High blood pressure is the number one risk factor for mortality. One in two adults have it, meaning that there's a 50, 50 chance that you two could be effective. And taking control of your blood pressure is critical, critical to your health and to living long. You want to be an old person, you got to take care of it. So beyond high blood pressure, 120 life is not just for that. It's also great for those with diabetes. It is just a terrific drink that's also flavorful. It's great to drink. It's got that cute little beet and cherry flavor, which I love. And it provides visible, measurable changes in your blood pressure. There's also a great two, a great 20% off special right now and also a guarantee after two weeks, you don't like it, it's not working for you. You can get your money back. It's formulated with ingredients shown to help control high blood pressure. Health professionals love it. And so right now, want to let you guys know, for a limited time, you can get 20% off. If you want to try it like we are trying it, just use the code Joy for the ladies and read Reid for the gentleman at checkout@120life.com. That's 1 2o l I f e.com again, risk free trial. You don't like it doesn't help you get your money back. So go to 120life.com use the code, Joey or the word read to save 20% today. You got to use the code to get the 20% off. Want to know if these statements have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Had to give that disclaimer as well. Okay, let's get back to the show. Just so you guys know, maybe you guys have noticed, maybe you've noticed. I've noticed there is a literal civil war breaking out on the right. A literal civil war. As Donald Trump and his friends, I think are slowly coming to the realization that he is not going to just be able to stay on as president for life. That's going to be hard. Americans are really going to fight this whole Trump 2028 Trump forever fever dream. They're going to fight to continue to have elections in this country. That huge blue wave that we saw on Tuesday, it was pretty sobering for people on the right. The messages I'm hearing back, they sobered up a lot because they thought they had this thing locked forever. They had brown people locked forever. They, they thought black folks were going to stay away forever because they didn't vote enough in their minds for Kamala. They're like, we got this. But people are aggressively pushing back on Project 2025, which is basically just their blueprint for permanent control of the United States by a tech crypto, oil. And for some reason, I cannot explain Israel based oligarchy. And they know that in order to do that, they have to rapidly de diversify this country. As you just heard in our previous segment, they have to rapidly de diversify the federal government because the people most likely to fight them, in their mind, people of color, liberals, they want them out. They have to de diversify academic institutions, get those people out of there who are willing to stand up and fight for the First Amendment, get them out of there. They view those institutions, particularly the academic institutions, as the breeding ground for empathy. And empathy is the biggest threat to fascism because if you're empathetic, you're going to fight for the least of these. And they can't have that. The reason that they don't want real education on slavery is not because they think black people will find out the history. They know that we know it. They think white people will find out the history and develop empathy and they may turn against the things that came out of pristine capitalism, which was slavery, perfect capitalism, was slavery, low, low, low cost of labor, high, high, high profits. And they feel like if white kids start to develop empathy or if Christians have empathy for Muslims, if people have empathy for Palestinians, any of that, especially anti colonial empathy, which is what this pro Palestinian thing is, it scares the hell out of them. I want you to listen to a couple of the architects, a few of the architects of this anti diversity, anti dei, anti empathy movement, sitting down and having a chat, having a cackle about their beliefs. This was back in August of this year. This is B1.
- [40:09]
Curtis Yarvin
That the project of the Right should be simultaneously how to capture, destroy, subvert or rule these national institutions while providing kind of a trench network for local institutions to regain their function, regain their personality. And as we would say, they have to be essentially delegated the function and purpose for them to inhabit it. I think people are apathetic, people are scared, people are fragmented, distracted. But I think it's still functional. There's still pockets or places that you can escape to that are real and we shouldn't discount or ignore them. Can I put on the table, I think that one of the areas of dispute between what's now increasingly called the New Right and the Old Right is on the question not whether or not we, respectively old and new, desire to have strong communities, strong civil society, strong institutions like parents who are really engaged in, whether in public schools or in private school schools, engaged in the life of their children and their communities. The question is whether the damage that has been done by the administrative state, by the kind of intellectual class and their kind of, you know, deracinated preference for a deracinated existence, for this kind of rootlessness, whether the damage is so extensive that simply lifting the oppression will lead to the kind of automatic, you know, grassroots repair of these institutions, or whether it now needs these institutions, now need the assistance of the political order itself. And as speaking as someone who I suppose is in the New Right, I'm in the latter camp. I don't have the answers for what exactly that would look like. But I think these institutions are so deeply damaged and our habits have been so deeply broken that there needs to be what we need to think. And this is the. It seems this is the task of the New Right. How do we begin to repair the steady habits of the New Englanders and the kind of institutional dimension of life that I do not think is simply going to arise from spontaneous order?
- [42:29]
Joy Reid
Did you hear that term deracinated? Let me read you the merriam Webster dictionary. He used it twice. Deracinated. One of those guys Deracinated, per our friends at Merriam Webster, means to remove or separate from a native environment or culture. Especially they put that in italics to remove the racial or ethnic characteristics or influences. To remove the racial or ethnic characteristics or influences. So he's concerned about a deracinated American culture. Who do you think he thinks are being deracinated, removing themselves or separating themselves from. From the racial or ethnic characteristics of America? You see where I'm going with this now? Sitting around that those comfy couches looked very snuggly, yapping about how to seize control of universities and stop the deracination of America during a two hour podcast. I mean, it looked pretty boring to watch, but it was a podcast called Project Cosmos. Sitting around that table were Christopher Ruffo, Curtis Yarvin. Who Christopher Caldwell and Patrick Deneen. Now you may remember Rufo, who's the guy with the black hair, as the architect of destroying real critical race theory and replacing it with his own version. And if you used to watch the readout back on Ms. Now back in the day you saw that, we had a little debate. Here's a little clip of that.
- [43:52]
Curtis Yarvin
This is B2 white guy fighting critical race theory.
- [43:55]
Joy Reid
Do you identify as white?
- [43:58]
Curtis Yarvin
I mean, I'm an Italian American, so you tell me lumping people into white, black, Asian, as you suggested, is such a crude and broad categorization. There's these like very kind of pathetic and very, you know, angry graduate students that, you know, try to fight me on these highly technical, you know, hegel interpretations. And it's like, I don't have time for this. I don't give a about this stuff.
- [44:26]
Joy Reid
So you don't give an s about this stuff. You, you're really just having a campaign to take everything that annoys white Americans and white conservatives. The activists are realizing that their ideas, once put into practice, are generating discontent, which is you just described. Their racial coalition is also breaking apart. Asian Americans in particular, revolting against crt, which is really crystal ruffo there, because you made it up, is punishing them more than any other group. Then you said we have successfully frozen their brand critical race theory into the the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic as we put all the various cultural insanities under that brand category. The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think critical race theory. We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans. Aren't you just taking wokeness stuff that annoys you you in calling it critical race theory?
- [45:21]
Curtis Yarvin
No, not at all. The idea of the codification and decodification of language comes from the critical pedagogist Paulo Freire. And my strategy is to take these.
- [45:30]
Joy Reid
Now you're doing pedagogy, Christopher?
- [45:32]
Curtis Yarvin
Yes, to take these techniques and use them against their own ideology. And I'll tell you, Joy, my strategy has been enormously successful. According to the Economist magazine poll, 64% of Americans now know what critical race theory is.
- [45:46]
Joy Reid
No, they know what critical race theory is, of which. That was a good wig, y'.
- [45:50]
Michelle Eisen
All.
- [45:52]
Joy Reid
That was a good wig. I. I need a thumbs up in the chat for that wig, by the way. That was a good wig.
- [45:58]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Yeah.
- [45:58]
Joy Reid
By the way, Christopher Rufo's wife is a former undocumented immigrant from Thailand. Nobody tell the far right. They might try to deport her. He's also. He's also a fellow at the ultra conservative Claremont Institute, where one of the other guys who was sitting around the. Christopher Caldwell is a. Who is a columnist and an author, is a contributing editor for the Claremont Review of Books. The other guy, I believe the bald guy is Patrick Deneen. He's a college professor and writer and critic of liberalism in modern society. And the fourth member of the group is Curtis Yarvin. The guy with the sort of long hair was sitting next to the guy, the deracinate guy. I don't. I can't tell the difference of the other two guys. But the guy with the dark hair was next to the derassinate guy. That is Curtis Yarvin. And later in the podcast, here is what he said. This is B3.
- [46:46]
Curtis Yarvin
We have basically two kinds of Americans. There are Americans who should be living in a modern way, who want to live in a modern way that's individualized, that's atomized, that's basically atheistic. And we have Americans who want or need to live in a traditional way. And so if you basically say, all right, there's two kinds of Americans, maybe you just get a chance to sort yourself. Maybe you say, all right, you know, we're in a new world here. What kind of American are you? Remember, they are the pink glasses. What kind of American are you? Are you a modern American who basically wants to live a libertarian existence and, you know, live in this atomized modern way? Or do you want to be part of a community, or are you someone who actually cannot take care of yourself in a civilized society? Because if you're not someone who, not who cannot take care of yourself in a civilized society, society, you need to be part of a community. And what that means in practice in my world, which is obviously very distant from the world, the Trump administration is you wake up, you know, one morning, you're a gang banger in Baltimore or whatever, and your life is about to change. Because your life is, you are not an aristocrat, you are not a, you know, like, you know, you have to be part of a society. And being part of a society maybe means that you are going to get your welfare check or however you support yourself from your minister. And you are part of that community and you don't pay taxes, you don't, basically your relationship with the state is intermediated through your church. And basically your minister can drug test you, he can assign you work, he can tell you, he can put an air tag on you, he can tell you where to go, where not to go go. And let me tell you, for every gang banger in Baltimore, if you were to ask, those are not people who go to church. But the thing is, if you actually look at their social connections, you know, they are part of a society and if they were to be assigned to a reverend, you would know which reverend that was.
- [48:46]
Joy Reid
It sounds so. So Curtis Yarvin, who is one of the intellectual lights that J.D. vance turns to, he's a Yarvinist, he thinks Yarvin is one of the people that he looks to intellectually. You just heard him say, y' all heard what he did. They're sitting around having an intellectual conversation among just the deracinated guys, just the guys who are not deracinated, sorry, the anti deracinated guys, the guys who are still racinated and they're sitting around talking about the fact that what you need to do with the gang bangers and in Baltimore, and he of course presumes all the blacks in Baltimore, gang bangers, that's what you do with them. You see, as we sit around in these comfy couches is we take them and we, we give them each to the custody of a priest. And that priest is then their master. That master can air tag them. So they always know where they are. And they can only get their welfare because you know, all the blacks are on welfare. They only get their welfare through this priest who is now basically their boss man. You know what that sounds like? That sounds like slavery. But they what, what he's basically saying is we're going to bring back an indenture and we are going to put the blacks under the indenture of a religious leader who will then airtag them. Imagine if they'd had that during slavery. So they couldn't have gotten away, couldn't have had too much running away if you were airtagged. He's calling for black people to be placed in a kind of indentured servitude, guys, to religious leaders. And he's doing that quite seriously, with no pushback from Mr. Critical Race Theory and its Marxist Origins. And the other two guys, they're just all sitting. They're like, yes, yes, yes. That sounds. And by the way, Curtis Yarvin is not just, like, tangentially pro slavery. He's like, openly pro slavery. I want you guys to listen to Reverend Doug Wilson, who apparently is Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's pastor, agreeing with Curtis Yarvin, including playing a clip of Yarvin's interview with the New York Times. Because, you know, of course, right wingers always get the celebrity treatment and glossy profiles from the mainstream media like the New York Times. And in this one, Curtis Yarvin and Pastor Doug Wilson, in this clip, they literally justify slavery.
- [51:03]
Curtis Yarvin
Said slavery time was a. A wonderful, wonderful time for slaves and whites both. If it's all sung of the south, then of course, that's a misrepresentation. In the slave narratives that I read, there were stories and narratives and tales that were every bit as bad as the most virulent abolitionist could conjure up. In other words, there were true tales of abuse. There were also numerous slaves pining for slavery time, saying that they really had it good back then and they didn't have it good right now. Now, what Yarvin is saying. Yarvin is not denying the atrocity stories. He's just saying there's the presence of this other perspective. In other words, it's not a one size fits all. The interviewer is trying to say it's not one size fits all. But then he wants one size to fit all. He's the one contradicting himself. Some slave narratives.
- [52:07]
Joy Reid
And I see this. And I see.
- [52:08]
Curtis Yarvin
How does that justify. I see this in the conversation. Makes anyone's life more pleasant. Difficult to argue that anyone. That anyone, including freed slaves, their children were no longer sold out from under them. When I said anyone. Okay, first of all, when I said anyone, I was talking about a population group rather than individuals. But are you seriously arguing that. That the era of slavery was somehow.
- [52:33]
Joy Reid
Better than the era.
- [52:34]
Curtis Yarvin
The era of 1865-1875 was absolutely. And the war itself wasn't good either. But if you look at the living conditions for an African American in the south, they are absolutely at their nadir between 1865 and 1875. They are very, very bad because basically this economic system has been disrupted. But abolition was a necessary step to get through that period towards so to make people necessary step, huh?
- [53:06]
Joy Reid
Did I mention he's a computer programmer? Does it. Would it surprise you to know that he's one of the tech lords? That he and Elon and Peter Thiel, they're all, they all kind of the same thing. He's a computer programmer. So this guy who's been getting just profile after profile after profile in all the mainstream media, it's just very, just not unironically saying, I mean, times are better than slavery. Blacks were miserable after slavery. They didn't know what time to go to work. I mean, at least when it was 247 work, they knew what their clock and they knew what their schedule was. Who are they supposed to, I mean, this is terrible. To let them off of slavery where the good white folk could take care of them. Now, before I get to a little bit more about him, I do want to note a little bit of updated news that the federal appeals court has now denied a last minute bid by the Trump administration to halt some of the food stamp funding during the government shutdown. Again, they appealed because they don't want people to eat. Speaking of people who believe in slavery, they believe in starving the poor in order to get their way because they don't want to extend the Obamacare to premium supports. They just want those to be temporary and only the tax cuts to be permanent. Some states, including New York. Come on, Tish James. Kansas, Pennsylvania and Oregon had already said that they were going to send full food stamp benefits anyway. There was also a couple of states have asked if they can just go ahead and pay air traffic controls out of their own budgets and then get reimbursed later. So just, that's just some updates. But Yarvin, who clearly does not think that the poor is to get anything, food stamps or anything else, or that they should only get the food stamps. Under his theory, people who are getting food stamps would have to first check with their master, the priest, who's now their master, and then they would get the food stamps through massa, through the priest. Now this guy Yarvin, who is the grandson and people are asking about his family. He claims that his grandparents were Jewish communist Liberals in the 1930s. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. I don't know what his religion is, but he used to blog online about under a pseudonym, which is a very sort of highfalutin sounding pseudonym. These people are all super pretentious. He used to blog under a pseudonym called Mencius Moldbug. Mencius moldbug, wherein in 2008, as Barack Obama was rising and campaigning to become the country's first black president, he wrote such things, per this piece which I'm going to show you in the New Yorker. He wrote such things as this piece as a 120,000 thousand word open letter arguing that egalitarianism, far from improving the world, was actually responsible for most of its ills. That his Bayan Peasant readers thought otherwise, Moldsberg contended. Moldbug contended, was due to the influence of the media and the academy, which worked together, however unwittingly, to perpetuate a left liberal consensus. To this nefarious alliance, he gave the name the Cathedral. Moldbug called for nothing less than its destruction and a total reboot of the social order. He proposed the liquidation of democracy, the Constitution and the rule of law, and the eventual transfer of power to a CEO in chief. Someone like Steve Jobs. The late Steve Jobs or Mark Andreessen, he suggested, who would transform the government into a heavily armed, ultra profitable corporation. This new regime would sell off public schools, destroy universities, abolish the press, and also fire civil servants en masse. That sound familiar? A policy mold bug, later called Rage, retire all government employees and discontinue international relations. Sound familiar? Including security guarantees, foreign aid and mass immigration. And as for that podcast, it's produced by a think tank called the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, or isi, which by the way was the precursor to turning points USA. ISI was founded in 1953 by a guy named Frank Chodoroff, who you've probably never heard of, but he was a staunch opponent of the New Deal and of America's entry into World War II to fight Hitler. And by William F. Buckley, who you probably have heard of, who is a very well known conservative intellectual who in the 1960s opposed the civil Rights act and debated genius American author James Baldwin at Cambridge in the UK. I highly recommend you look that up. It's brilliant. ISI's purpose was to host intellectual debates on college campuses to encourage the spread of conservatism, because it's always been a right wing project to keep their young white folks conservative. Turning Points USA was a new iteration of that same thing. Co founded in 2012 during the Obama era by Charlie Kirk, remember Obama, he scared the hell out of the right and all of a sudden they started trying to figure out how to make sure that young white kids did not go Woke. So in 2012, during the Obama era, Charlie Kirk was encouraged at 18 years old to drop out of junior college to become a professional campus debater by a 72 year old tea party activist named Bill Montgomery. We've talked about this on the show before. And his new thing, Turning Points usa. Their new thing, which they co founded, was initially funded with a donation from right wing Christian nationalist investment manager Foster Freeze on the initial advisory committee of Turning Points usa. Barry Russell, who is the president and CEO of the Independent Petroleum Association. So Wall street and big oil, check and check. And Ginni Thomas, wife of Clarence, the anti black but also black Supreme Court justice who's always for sale for the low, low price of a posh vacation and an upgraded Winnebago. The isa, especially after Kirk's assassination, is moving to get back in the game. And this new slick podcast is part of it. Although it might not be the most exciting podcast, according to the magazine the American Conservative, Project Cosmos is intended to be a forum that can explore at length the differences and similarities of the newly fractious right, examining the possibilities for forming a new synthesis from the disparate strains of the tech right, religious, post liberalism, right wing populism and traditional American conservatism to bring them all together. But what's happening at this time when the right, which has always been pro wealth without, you know, pro wealth without taxation, pro big business without unions, pro Wall street without limits, pro big oil and gas without environmentalist limits or even a belief in climate change, anti affirmative action, anti diversity programs, anti women's rights, anti abortion, you name it, anything that stands in the way of the oligarchy, even if it means embracing monarchism or fascism. That far right, which finally found their part perfect avatar in Donald Trump, the celebrity person with no personal ideology other than really not being fond of black folks and women and being greedy and being easy to buy off and give him some crypto billions and do whatever and he'll dance for you and who's entertaining and knows how to do tv, they found their perfect guy. By the way. Yarvin once described Trump as biologically suited to become our first CEO king. You know who the other person he thought was Chris Christie. It's weird, but that right that has all of these written down plans so sophisticated to take control of the country, regain a kind of slavery, seize control of institutions the government the colleges get rid of all the woke college presidents and all the curricula about slavery get rid of the museum exhibits on they have a whole plan, but they're literally at war with themselves. And the right wing youth keep moving further and further to the right and the Republican Party keeps chasing them further to the right. They're encouraging them to move to the right because it helps them win elections, because they can red pill people. But now it's basically balling out of control. The youth who they've chased further and further to the right are now posting I love Hitler in their text threads. Recall that. I've told you before that Turning Points USA did not really catch on until Charlie Kirk went from arguing old school conservatism to to going full tilt anti black, anti woman, trad wife, promoting the fascist ish lingo. When he got fashy, that's when he got popular. And there was almost an immediate sense of competition to get to the kids right, including the fact that a separate set of right wingers, as I've told you on the show, soon started their own version of this for Ben Shapiro, the guy with the law degree in 2015. They called it the Daily Wire. Who? The professor we talked with earlier, the lady who went after her. She, she went on the Daily Wire to do that and Newsmax and other right wing outlet. Right. So the Daily Wire, that's Ben Shapiro's thing. Shapiro used to work for Steve Bannon, who we showed you at the top of the show at Breitbart, but he quit over the website's failure to back up a reporter named Michelle Fields, who worked there after her alleged physical assault by Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's former campaign manager and Nightmare Barbie Kristi gnomes, maybe. Current boyfriend Shapiro and his partner, filmmaker Jeremy Boreing, got their initial funding from a pair of right wing Christian nationalist brothers, the Wilkes brothers, who basically run Texas, as I've told you before. And the main difference between Turning Points USA and the Daily Wire is that the Wire is staunchly pro Israel no matter what. Which is why Candace Owens no longer works there. She parted ways with Ben Shapiro because she turned on Israel and started criticizing them, especially over the genocide in Gaza civil war. So when Trump gets elected, by the way, in 2016, okay, a big part of his growth came from young white far right conservatives. That's why he wouldn't denounce the proud boys. He said stand back and stand by. He just wouldn't denounce them because he knew that was part of his base, including Teenagers who used to joke about how cool Hitler was. Now, most of them were incels, Many of them. Not maybe most, I don't know about many most, but many of them were incels, meaning involuntary celibates, incels who couldn't get girls and therefore hated women and would attack women online. They were also some of them part of Gamergate, which was this online thing in which young white incel. Men were angry because women, they felt were busting into the gamersphere and intruding on their fun and forcing in feminist ideas and female characters. And they hated. And they hated women. And the symbol of this new right was Pepe the Frog, this cute little frog which they appropriated and basically stole from his creator over his objections and turned him into their symbol. And they called themselves the Groipers. The Groipers, the young white, angry, racist, maybe Hitler kind of loving young guys who backed Donald Trump in 2016 helped him win. And Nick Fuentes was their leader at the time. He was a college student from suburban Chicago. He's part Mexican and part Italian just for the irony of it. And when Trump won, he wound up being one of the people who showed up. And at the Charlottesville riots that began with those tiki torch marches where people were shouting Jews will not replace us, chanting that. We don't know if he was in the march, the tiki torch march, but he was definitely there for that weekend of riots in which a white woman who was a pro Black Lives Matter person died. We don't know if he was doing the Jews will not replace us march specifically, but he's definitely not a fan of the Jews. And he wound up dropping out of college due to his involvement in Charlottesville and what he claimed was harassment on campus. And he instead started a podcast in his parents basement that eventually got him got kicked off of YouTube and other platforms because it was just so extreme and racist. I want to give you all with that setup. Take three minutes please to witness a sample of Nick Fuentes. Just so you know who he is. Brace yourself, generation of white person. I'm not living around blacks. Sorry. You know, I want white kids and I don't want my white kids bringing home black people to marry. It's racial for me. And call me racist.
- [65:00]
Curtis Yarvin
Oh, very Christian to you.
- [65:01]
Joy Reid
I don't give a fuck.
- [65:03]
Curtis Yarvin
Well, let, let me call your immigration moratorium and let me raise you one more.
- [65:10]
Joy Reid
Okay.
- [65:10]
Curtis Yarvin
Matt Walsh and Charlie Kirk said they're.
- [65:13]
Joy Reid
Against third world immigration.
- [65:16]
Curtis Yarvin
I don't know what that means. I don't know what the third world Is what's the Third World?
- [65:21]
Joy Reid
Earth? What's the Third World? Are you referring to the planet Earth?
- [65:29]
Curtis Yarvin
Are you referring to the classification of.
- [65:32]
Joy Reid
Countries during the Cold War?
- [65:34]
Curtis Yarvin
I don't know what the third World is.
- [65:38]
Joy Reid
I'm not in favor of an immigration moratorium from the Third World. I'm in favor of an immigration moratorium from non white countries, non white countries.
- [65:52]
Curtis Yarvin
Countries that are not white and not.
- [65:54]
Joy Reid
Have people living by the laws of.
- [65:56]
Curtis Yarvin
Man that are taught to share and to be a gentleman and to be.
- [66:01]
Joy Reid
Considerate, taught to turn the other cheek and be Christian.
- [66:06]
Curtis Yarvin
People that are wearing a business suit.
- [66:08]
Joy Reid
On the way to their job, living.
- [66:09]
Curtis Yarvin
Alongside people that are shooting and killing.
- [66:12]
Joy Reid
To get to the top of the heap, to get to the top of the hill.
- [66:16]
Curtis Yarvin
You can't have them living because if.
- [66:18]
Joy Reid
We were to live by the laws of the jungle, it would look like Nazi Germany. If we were living. If whites were living by the same rules as the blacks, it would look like Vikings.
- [66:31]
Curtis Yarvin
It would look like pillage and torment.
- [66:34]
Joy Reid
And ingenuity and innovation in brutality that they could never fucking conceive of. Systematic violence that they are not even capable of. Italians and Germans are debating each other who's. Who's greater, Hitler or Caesar. And then the British come in, we.
- [66:52]
Curtis Yarvin
Own a quarter of the world. And then the French come in, we have the Sun King, and then you.
- [66:57]
Joy Reid
Have these, like, Slavic people.
- [66:59]
Curtis Yarvin
Actually, we invented everything and it's proper.
- [67:01]
Joy Reid
To call them Slav monkeys because they have the same like, we was thing that blacks do.
- [67:06]
Curtis Yarvin
Hitler killed a lot of people.
- [67:07]
Joy Reid
Stalin killed a lot of people. I've never said Hitler's my priest. I've never said Hitler's my leader. What I've always said is that Hitler is not the devil. Hitler was a particular leader of a particular nation in a particular time.
- [67:19]
Curtis Yarvin
We have to judge him according to the circumstances. And I've said, I said even the.
- [67:24]
Joy Reid
Other day, I don't necessarily think that Hitler is a hero. I said, but he has aura. Is that not true? Is it not true that he's compelling? Is it not true that he's captivating? Is it not true that he has a mythical significance in human affairs? Whatever you think morally, whatever judgment you can lay down, this is descriptive. This is indisputable. So that's. And by the way, there are a bunch of black conservative YouTubers who stan the hell out of that guy who said much worse things than I played you about black people. But, yeah, that's the guy who right now is really competing for leadership. Now I Don't know if he was one of the very fine people. Trump said. We're at the march, the Tiki torch March, because in 2022, while he was out of office, Trump invited that guy Nick Fuentes, along with Kanye west, the formerly brilliant rapper who's I think got some mental health challenges, who Trump also fetted in the White House. Kanye west, who's one of the blacks Trump does allow himself to be around. There he is. By the way, the other black guy you see in the picture in the front is very right wing, former NFL hall of Famer Jim Brown. There he is with his MAGA hat on and who also, you will recall, rocked a White Lives Matter. There's Kanye with Candace. Remember this? This was the whole red, the whole thing where he was being red pilled over to the right where he and Candace wore their White Lives Matter talk. Trump invited Kanye, who calls himself Yay now and Nick Fuentes, the guy just played you the video who said Hitler, you know, has. He's got the vibes, right? He's got, he's got presence. That guy Trump invited them to Mar a Lago for lunch. And it's weird that Politico, by the way, only pictured Kanye in that headline, but named Nick Fuentes. They didn't picture him. It's not like there's not pictures of him. There are plenty of pictures of him. Anywho, in 2024, while he was courting right wing podcasters with the help of his son Baron and preparing to run for president again, he had that lunch with Kanye west and Nick Fuentes. People went a little crazy, but the right, of course, is scared to criticize Trump. And in the 2024 election, the podcast army, including the Gripers and their leader, Nick Fuentes, supported Trump again on the basis of promises that sounded a lot like Nick Fue when it comes to immigration. Not just the Hitlery, they're poisoning the blood. That stuff, it is very Mein Kampfish, but also Donald Trump telling a very interesting biblical tale. This is B10 and this was during the.
- [69:57]
Curtis Yarvin
Okay, so let's dedicate this to General Kelly, the Border Patrol and the ICE agents for doing such an incredible job. Right. This was written by Al Wilson a long time ago, and I thought of it having to do with our borders and people coming in. And we know what we're going to have. We're going to have problems. We have to very, very carefully vet. We have to be smart, we have to be vigilant. So here it is, the snake. It's called The Snake.
- [70:35]
Joy Reid
On her way.
- [70:36]
Curtis Yarvin
To work one morning down the path along the lake, a tender hearted woman saw a poor half frozen snake. His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew. Poor thing, she cried. I'll take you in and I'll take care of you. The Border Take me in, O tender woman. Take me in, for heaven's sake, take me in, O tender woman, sighed the vicious snake. She wrapped him up all cozy in a comforter of silk and laid him by her fireside with some honey and some milk. She hurried home from work that night, and as soon as she arrived she found that pretty snake she'd taken in had been revived. Take me in, O tender woman, take me in, for heaven's sake, take me in, O tender woman, sighed that vicious snake. She clutched him to her bosom. You're so beautiful, she cried. But if I hadn't brought you in by now, oh heavens, you would have died. She stroked his pretty skin again and kissed him and held him tight. But instead of saying thank you, that snake gave her a vicious bite. Take me in, O tender woman. Take me in, for heaven's sake, take me in, O tender woman, sighed the vicious sake. I have saved you, cried the woman. And you've bitten me. Heavens, why? You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die. Oh shut up, silly woman, said the reptile with a grin. You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.
- [73:23]
Joy Reid
Yeah, so who's the snake, Donald? Who is the snake? Because it kind of sounds like it might be you. You and your fellow billionaires like Trillion Dollar Elon and Peter Thiel who runs JD Vance and Curtis Yarvin who influences JD Vance and the crazy right wing so called pastors who agree with Yarvin that we should bring back slavery. It sounds, you know, maybe like you were the snake. You were the snake who convinced 80 million Americans that you could make their lives affordable and bring down the price of groceries. But all you've done is spread misery and poverty and unemployment and hunger and tariffs and terror against non white immigrants to satisfy your increasingly far, far right wing followers while building yourself a golden ballroom and a marble bathroom with a chandelier over the toilet and throwing yourself a Gatsby party while people were terrified they were going to go hungry during Thanksgiving. You might be the snake, Donald. Just a thought. Fast forward to now and Fuentes is pissed at that guy. He's mad at him because he doesn't think that the raids and the mass detentions have gone far enough he was feuding with Charlie Kirk before he was killed and he still is feuding with Ben Shapiro over, especially over Shapiro's continual support for Israel. Fuentes and his fans hate the genocide, not because they particularly care about Palestinians, though they seem to have noticed that some of them are Christians and even they can see how evil Bibi Netanyahu is. It's literally like evil versus evil. Nick Fuentes is demanding more deportations and a total ban, as you heard on non white immigration, which you may have noticed, Trump is pretty much moving on. Hello Africanors. He's on his podcast where people, which people on YouTube constantly repost. He's saying all the time on his podcast he wants real America first foreign policy from Trump, no more money to Israel, which he and his progressives and by the way, most Democrats actually agree on. And he's even gone after J.D. vance, calling him fat and going after him for having a wife who isn't white. I mean, it is a real question. Is J.D. vance going to be able to inherit MAGA with an Indian American Hindu wife? Could this be why it seems like JD Is throwing Usha under the bus every time we turn around? Isn't this more like the image that the now ultra MAGA right wants to see? You heard Fuentes say he wants white children, white families, white communities. They don't like the race mixing. Fuentes is the one who represents the growing movement on the right, especially on the young right, in direct competition with the now leaderless Turning Points USA and the Daily Wire. And they're also in friction with some of the project 2025 People with prominent Jewish members now resigning from the Heritage foundation over Heritage boss Kevin Roberts defending Tucker Carlson. Old Tuck Ems who used to mock Nick Fuentes as a gay kid in his mother's basement is that's what he used to call him, but who then invited him on his podcast even after Fuentes mocked him on his podcast as the son of a CIA spook. Apparently his father used to do some stuff with the CIA and questioned his sincerity on America first and also went after him and question his sincerity on Israel. So Roberts is now out there apologizing. Bunch of people resigning. It's a mess. Candace Owens, who's broken with Israel and become a full conspiracist about Charlie Kirk's murder. She also had Nick Fuentes on her show and he told that lady to her face that he remains opposed to miscegenation. It was super embarrassing. But in this moment when young Republicans are literally praising Hitler in their group chats, and proto Nazi themed beings like Stephen Miller, who was an acolyte of white supremacist Richard Smith Spencer who was the creator of the Tiki Torch March. He was the guy behind it. That white supremacist that was like kind of his mentor in college when they were both at Duke. That guy Stephen Miller who his own family says are weirdly is an unironic person from a Jewish refugee family and that he seems to really kind of dig the Nazi fetishist thing. They're unleashing just pure hell on non white immigrants to accommodate this further and further right conservative young base that Republicans need to get elected. Let me now mention to you with all of that said, that according to a New York Times story, 30 to 40% of Capitol Hill Republican staffers are groipers. 30 to 40% of them. No wonder the trolling from every federal agency and entity, including the White House, feels so much like the Pepe the Frog era of Twitter. And as the MAGA podcast world realizes that the algorithm wins are in the anti Israel side and it's not enough to just hate black people and hate diversity and hate women, but also being on the anti Israel side is where the young folks are, then the right is fracturing even more. Now it's pro Israel versus anti Israel right wing people. So who gets to inherit the Charlie Kirk portion of the right? Who gets to inherit MAGA when Trump inevitably goes away or nature takes him down to his reward? Down below, who do our new trillionaire oligarchs bet on next? Do they bet on Tucker? Do they bet on ardently pro Israel Ben Shapiro? Do they bet on Nick Fuentes who seems to actually like speak for the increasingly openly fascist conservative movement base? It's something to think about. We are now into hour two of the podcast and I want to now take this in the direction of the oligarchy itself because they run the country. They run Trump. They are paying for the ballroom, the Epstein Ballroom. They're the ones who are probably the scaredest of the Epstein files coming out the because what was billionaire Epstein doing getting billionaires to do crimes with children and taping them? We don't know which billionaires are on the list, but a whole lot of billionaires are trying to hook up Trump and Trump is doing anything to keep those files from coming forward. Meanwhile, the board of Tesla just this week approved a trillion dollar pay package for Elon Musk, putting him closer to becoming the world's first trillionaire. It remains to be seen. Now if he's going to get punished by Trump for becoming a trillionaire before Trump does. Per cnbc, the pay package for Elon, who's already the world's richest person. The Ellisons keep pivoting back and forth, but he's still the richest right now. Consists of 12 tranches of shares to be granted if Tesla hits certain milestones over the next decade. It would also give Elon Musk increased voting power over the company, exceeding to demands that he made publicly since 2024. His ownership would increase from about 13% to about 25% of the company, adding more than 423 million shares to his holdings. The first tranche of stock gets paid out if Tesla hits a market cap of $2 trillion. So he gets a trillion. If they hit 2 trillion, he gets half for only. Only 25% of the company. That don't seem right. Tesla's current market cap is 1.54 trillion. So he gets almost their half their market cap or three quarters of it. His awards are tied to the gains, right? So he's supposed to have the gains and he would get the tranches as they make these milestone gains. Now Tesla laid out a series of earnings milestones that they want him to do. So he want. They want to get 50 billion for the first quarter, then 400 billion in the third quarter. They want 4.2 billion, then. The other goals are for his improved pay plan, including reaching 20 million vehicle deliveries, 10 million active full self driving subscriptions, 1 million Optimus humanoid robots delivered, and 1 million be careful driving on the roads. To date, Tesla has delivered vehicles, per the September proxy statement. They don't specify whether these new subscriptions to the full striving vehicles need to be actually purchased by customers or whether they can include free trials. Tesla currently provides automated driving systems which it markets as. Which it markets to the public and to companies that want to have taxis. Donald Trump, at the meeting where he got the trillion, claimed that optimist robots will eliminate poverty, giving everyone amazing health care and will be bigger than cell phones, bigger than anything. He also said the robots can be used for containment of future crime by following criminals around and stopping them from doing crime. That's something he really said. There is currently no Optimus robot on the market, so the optimist robot that doesn't exist is part of what gave him the trillion dollar package. And Musk did not provide a target date for making the optimist robot or for reaching any of the goals. They just gave him the money anyway. And I want to note at this point that Tesla Sales in Germany alone cratered by more than half year to date. Tesla sales in Europe are down reportedly due to its aging lineup, which is struggling to compete with sleek new models from China. From legacy automakers. They're fighting just to be relevant because the Chinese models are better for this site called called Technica Arts. Technica sales are down 89% in Sweden, 86% in Denmark, 69% in Belgium, 68% in Phil in Finland, 65% in Austria, 60% in Switzerland, 59% in Portugal and 54% in Germany, 50% in Norway, 48% in the Netherlands, 47% in Italy and 31% in Spain. Only France are up a tiny bit by 2%. In China, slightly better, they're up by 9.9%. So this is not him getting money based on performance. This is not a meritocracy, a meritocratic move. It's not mer, it's not merit. They're just giving him the money. Even though he has made Tesla's the most hated vehicle on earth. And in England, which he really prizes as a market, people are saying, yeah, trying to get Tommy Robinson, a far right winger, elected is why people don't want your damn Teslas. So we're soon going to reach the point where, where these unmeritocratic, undeserving people like Elon Musk, who has not performed to get the trillion, but they are soon going to be an oligarchy that is going to run our country. And you can bet that Peter Thiel and Jeffrey Sachs, the other two members of the white South African payroll mafia, will soon be trillionaires too. As will the Ellisons, who now own, they're going to own TikTok soon, I guess, that own Paramount, cbs. They're all going to be billionaires, trillionaires. And they're all going to run us. And then I'm sure one of they will just pick who they want to run the country. J.D. vance, Don Jr. Maybe Barron Trump. And then we've got our oligarchy. Just, just as Yarvin wanted. Let me play you the person who's standing against that. Here is Zorhan Mamdani, the new mayor of New York, who will be the one standing against this in the financial capital of the world, here is Zoran Mamdani, Trump.
- [83:54]
Curtis Yarvin
Since I know you're watching, I have four, four words for you. Turn the volume up. We will hold bad landlords to account because the Donald Trumps of our city have grown far too comfortable taking advantage of their tenants. We will put an end to the culture of corruption that has allowed billionaires like Trump to evade taxation and exploit tax breaks. We will. We will stand alongside unions and expand labor protections because we know, just as Donald Trump does, that when working people have ironclad rights, the bosses who seek to extort them become very small indeed. New York will remain a city of immigrants, a city of built by immigrants, powered by immigrants, and as of tonight, led by an immigrant.
- [85:29]
Joy Reid
And joining me now is Emmy award winning journalist and former PIX11 news anchor and reporter, Narmeen Chowdhury. Thank you so much, Narmeen, for being here.
- [85:38]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Thank you so much for having me.
- [85:40]
Joy Reid
So that was the blockbuster speech given by the man who scares the oligarchs maybe more than anyone else on Earth. Mamdani, what has been the reaction on the ground? Because now they've had a chance to absorb it at the per, you know, for. For a couple of days. What is the reaction in New York to the fact that now it's real, this man's going to be mayor?
- [85:59]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Depends on which borough you're sitting at. Right. You're walking through Manhattan. In some parts of the Upper east side, people described a very sullen attitude, a lot of doom and gloom. Feel, feeling of sullenness. They lost an election. And then you go to the boroughs, you go to Queens, you go to Brooklyn, you go to the Bronx. I went downtown. And you sensed a lot of joy, you sensed a lot of hope. Some people smiling ear to ear on the subways. I just felt like people were genuinely a little bit more chipper than they had been in a while.
- [86:31]
Joy Reid
Yeah, I mean, I think it's bullshit that the Wall Streeters and the rich folks are going to leave the city. I don't see them going anywhere. Do you see anything?
- [86:40]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Did anybody really believe that? And really, we live in New York City. We live in New York City. Let's be real. Who's going to leave the greatest city in the world? You know, you need it.
- [86:49]
Michelle Eisen
You need.
- [86:49]
Narmeen Chowdhury
And are you really going to, in this economy, uproot your business and take all of your employees with you to other places? I don't really think so. I think they really. And you saw them really backtrack on that day, one day after the election, you saw the tweets coming at them, coming towards Mamdani, offering out a hand. It might have been a small olive branch, but I think it's something. And I think both sides will have to see that. They're going to have to work together because this, this is New York City. You're going to need both the mayor of New York City to, and the billionaires and the hedge fund owners, all of them to come together and, and, and work for the betterment of this city.
- [87:28]
Joy Reid
The thing that's happened though, you know, since, you know, you're, you're, you're a young person. I'm, I'm, I'm youngish, but, you know, back when I was in New York.
- [87:35]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Younger than I look, Joy. Younger than I look. But thank you.
- [87:38]
Joy Reid
Brown and black don't crack, girl. We. Listen, we can stay young looking for as long as we want.
- [87:43]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Absolutely.
- [87:44]
Joy Reid
As long as we want. But I mean, back in the day, it was an affordable city. I mean, first of all, it is the place where most people want to be, whether you're in media, whether you're in finance, young people want to be in New York. Right. So moving out doesn't even make sense. But right now we're in a world where we're seeing record poverty in the country.
- [88:00]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Absolutely.
- [88:01]
Joy Reid
Almost 40% of the people, children in this country are living in poverty, which is embarrassing and humiliating for such a wealthy country. And we're also seeing just record wealth, just gargantuan wealth. I mean, something like $286 billion in new wealth. You know, this country producing more billionaires than any country on earth. And that dichotomy really lives in New York.
- [88:20]
Narmeen Chowdhury
It really does. And I think you see it. I mean, listen, I grew up in Jamaica, queens in the 80s. My dad immigrated here from Bangladesh in the early 70s. And he can tell you the stories that he experienced when he came here as an immigrant. It was, they didn't have the resources, the city didn't offer him the resources that we have right now.
- [88:37]
Michelle Eisen
Right.
- [88:37]
Narmeen Chowdhury
So it was tremendously harder at that time.
- [88:40]
Michelle Eisen
But.
- [88:40]
Narmeen Chowdhury
And you see what the experience of taxicab drivers, for example, in this city are food cart vendors. You see what their lives are like. They are barely making ends meet. We are in New York public city schools across Manhattan and you will see them offering food bank programs to families there. I mean, that shouldn't be happening in a city where you have so much materialism, so much an abundance of wealth, I would argue. Right. And yet you have poverty at an all time high.
- [89:09]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
You are right.
- [89:10]
Narmeen Chowdhury
You walk the streets of New York as Iran Mamdani did, for example. Right. You walk around the streets of New York City, take the subways, take the buses across the boroughs, and you do see more homelessness. You do see a quality of life issue. I see it every single day when.
- [89:26]
Joy Reid
I walk through our streets and what can Mamdani pragmatically do and how much of a pushback do you think he'll get from the city council and how much support will he get from the governor?
- [89:38]
Narmeen Chowdhury
I think that'll be a really interesting thing to play out. Right. It's going to be a really interesting one to watch. We, we watched Kathy Hogle. She was, she was delayed in her endorsement of him, but she knew she had to come around. She also has a re election campaign coming up that's a big one to watch. And she knows that she's going to need to tap into a lot of the voting block that Mamdani tapped into. She needs that. And so the partnership is going to be a really interesting one to watch. I've been really curious to see their interactions already in recent weeks. And you are seeing more conversations and finding middle ground. He's going to have to have that cooperation. The city council. I think you see a lot more of our council members aligning themselves and coming on board with Mamdani. And they had been early on in the campaign. So I don't see as much resistance there, though. There are a lot of people really wondering. He has, he's made a lot of big promises to New Yorkers. Right. And so whether you can deliver it. A lot of folks in New York have had to make. I take a little bit of a crash course and understanding of how city politics really works. A mayor is, is a dictate, is not a dictatorship in this. You know, you have a lot of layers of government to get through before you get anything done here. He's gonna, he's got a lot of challenges ahead of him. And you pointed it out right there. The governor partnership is a big one.
- [91:01]
Joy Reid
Yeah. I mean, even the subway that, you know, I used to think the one thing that a mayor should do is get the subways to work. Right. But that's part of it. The state controls a lot of that as well. Even like the mayor controls it. One of the other interesting sort of dynamics here is it seems quite unusual to have a Democratic mayor who effectively has no relationship with the two United States senators from New York. Chuck Schumer never endorsed him, wouldn't even say who he voted for. And the other senator kind of defamed him and like tried to sort of had to walk back Kirsten Gillibrand almost calling him a terrorist. What's that dynamic looking like?
- [91:35]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Yeah, I mean, you wonder how somebody recovers from that because that is also a partnership that's going to be important to watch. They're the ones that are advocating for this city in Washington. And it's an incredibly crucial relationship to have. And we've not seen this kind of, I guess, broken and fractured relationship. I can't recall it in recent memory, honestly, I don't know if you can. So, you know, I, I don't know where you come up from it. I would hope that they're extending their own olive branches and making the phone call despite the differences, because the differences only came down. Yes, the socialist ideas, progressive ideas, but really it came down to his stance on Israel and Palestine.
- [92:16]
Joy Reid
100. And by the way, they work with Bernie Sanders, and he's a whole socialist. He claims, he claims socialism as well. So it's not like they can't work with somebody that way. It is. It was a strange dynamic.
- [92:25]
Narmeen Chowdhury
It's very strange. And also, I mean, just speaking from the perspective as a Muslim, you know, South Asian, I mean, really, sometimes you just wondered, wow, is it only because he is, he is the Muslim candidate? Is it really purely that, let's say the quiet part out loud? Yeah, that's certainly what it feels like.
- [92:42]
Joy Reid
I mean, that's what it was. I mean, you know, there's no other explanation that's rational. The things he's for, you know, making grocery prices cheaper, making rent cheaper. These are all things Democrats have embraced since fdr if.
- [92:52]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Yeah, they're not new concepts at all.
- [92:54]
Michelle Eisen
Exactly.
- [92:55]
Joy Reid
They're not new. The only thing about him that was different and unique is that he didn't promise to go to Israel first before he goes to the Bronx. Like that's the only thing.
- [93:04]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Yeah, very. Reason that they stood kind of against him are the very things that I think became so appealing to young New York voters here. Really, he stood on conviction. He really did. He had this, like, moral clarity on this particular issue. And it became a very much. One canvasser told me it was an entry point for them. It certainly wasn't the only reason they wanted to vote for him. It gave them a lot of hope for a lot of other reasons because of affordability in New York. But on this one particular stance that so many felt so passionate about, he could talk about a genocide, he could talk about being pro Palestinian and, and talk about fighting antisemitism and be critical of the Israeli government and still become mayor of New York City.
- [93:42]
Joy Reid
I have to ask you this, just as a fellow journalist and somebody who worked at pix, which I used to listen to when I was in New York a lot or Watch. When I was in New York as a Muslim woman, what did you make of the almost complete lack of representation of Muslim men or women then? There are plenty of Muslim journalists that exist in the world who were accessible to all the major networks. Not one. Only Ali Velshi, who did an appearance on the MSNBC programming for a bit. There was just no representation and I don't think there still is.
- [94:12]
Narmeen Chowdhury
It's sad because honestly, I remember growing up in the 80s and watching the news and when I would talk about my dad used to flip incessantly through all of the evening newscasts and when I said that I wanted to be on the news, he said, how could you? There's nobody with your name up there. And it was something that wasn't really encouraged. But I pushed through it. I did it, I got to New York City and that was a dream, right. But the very same thing that became a challenge for me, which was being one of the lone voices as a Muslim woman sitting in editorial meetings, as you know, sitting in those meetings and having to not only represent yourself, represent an entire community and sometimes other diverse communities, other marginalized communities. It's incredibly fascinating to me that we still still, it saddens me that we still have so much lacking in our landscape of media.
- [95:02]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
We do.
- [95:03]
Narmeen Chowdhury
It's, it's, it's sad. You can turn on the television and still not see a Muslim woman speaking. But we're certainly hearing plenty being said about our community without giving us room at the table, right?
- [95:13]
Joy Reid
And it was just this very one sided. I mean, the next morning, the adl, the guy, the head of the head of the ADL who's vehemently anti Mamdani, he was making star appearances, but it was like there was no balance. And it feels like that's still where the media is. No balance.
- [95:27]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
It's just.
- [95:27]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Yeah, I mean it's still. There were so many and sometimes people will say, well, we don't see the other side. We don't see Muslims condemning this, we don't hear them condemning that. And, and you don't hear of the same criticism and, and accountability expected from many other communities. It is one Muslim said something that is the entire community has to speak up and denounce this, say this or say it exactly this way, maybe we will accept you, but maybe we won't. Because I will say, you know, one of the things and questions we have heard over and over and over again at every debate, every press conference facing Mamdani was about Israel and Palestine. Constantly asked, right. He answered it and he stood on again with conviction. His language didn't change, his verbiage didn't change. He was very, very clear. The point is that they just didn't really like his answer. And therefore you have the ADL saying they're now creating a watchdog agency within their group to watch this mayor.
- [96:26]
Joy Reid
Even though it's line, by the way, Narmine with a snitch line.
- [96:30]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Yeah, yeah, essentially. And wouldn't have you ever seen that from any other mayor? You have not seen that with any other, any other member of leadership in this country, frankly.
- [96:40]
Joy Reid
Yeah. And it should. They should have a snitch line for Republican staffers because apparently a lot of them are posting I Love Hitler in their group chat. Maybe they should do a watch list on that exit. Question to you, how do you expect Mamdani to handle this issue of immigration? He was very forthright. Say, look, I am the first immigrant in a long time mayor of New York City, and you will not come for one of us unless you come for all of us. How do you expect that to play out as Trump probably starts to target New York?
- [97:07]
Narmeen Chowdhury
And this is something that everybody is talking about, even amongst those who campaign for him, canvassed for him. And, and this is something that deeply worries and concerns even the people that walked into the polls with, with real concern about how somebody with his experience is going to handle Trump, because I don't think anybody believes that Trump won't be coming towards, coming at New York City. And, and one of the things that we do should remember also, ICE is here. We've seen certain scenes play out already in our federal buildings. We've seen it play out in Chinatown town. They're here already. It's going to be interesting to see how he works with the governor, with the NYPD and see how he really protects immigrant New Yorkers. There is still genuine fear in all pockets of immigrant communities across our five boroughs.
- [97:56]
Joy Reid
We see it.
- [97:57]
Narmeen Chowdhury
I've talked to people, I've heard it, and everybody is watching carefully. But they also know that they're going to have to wait and see what happens.
- [98:05]
Joy Reid
Day 1 Normeen Chowdhury where do we find your journalism? How can we read more?
- [98:10]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Currently I'm on Instagram. Narminews. I'm here with you. I hope to be invited back and offer a voice for our community because frankly, it's been lacking. And I really applaud you and thank you for allowing me to have a chance to share.
- [98:22]
Joy Reid
Well, you beat me to the punch because I was going to say, don't make too many plans for the hours between 6 and 8pm because we are always looking for fantastic journalists whose voices we can include on this program. So thank you so much, Narmeen Chowdhury, and we will see you again soon. Thank you. Thank you very much. She's good. Oh, yes. We like. We like discovering a new and great voice. And so she's terrific. So that is. That is it, right? That is the question of how will he govern this city in the midst of an oligarchy. And speaking of oligarchy, I want you to take a look at this clip. This is from September 14, 2022, at an education and Labor Committee hearing where a woman named Michelle Eisen, who is a Starbucks barista, explained what it was like to organize at her workplace.
- [99:11]
Michelle Eisen
Not take an act of bravery to assure ensure that you have a voice at work. We need Starbucks to recognize our desire to organize, which the NLRA explicitly states is our right. We need Starbucks to stop mistreating the workers it claims to care about and to fulfill its legal obligation to come to the table and negotiate with us in good faith. We are tired of fighting a company that can afford to do better by its hourly workers. We are tired of listening to billionaire CEOs take sole credit for the billions of dollars of profit made off our labor. We are tired of watching Starbucks continue to violate workers rights, knowing that the law will fail to offer any meaningful consequences. But most of all, we are tired of fighting Howard Schultz's ego. We need people in power to call Starbucks out for this repulsive behavior because worker rights are human rights. We need labor law reform like the Pro act so that the laws work to protect the people they were put in place for. We need better funding for the NLRB so that the agency has the resources it needs to enforce the law. We need you to stand with us as the American labor movement does what it always has. Fight for a future that is just and works for all of us.
- [100:30]
Joy Reid
And we are going to speak now with Michelle Eisen. She joins us. Michelle, thank you for being here.
- [100:36]
Michelle Eisen
Thank you so much for having me tonight.
- [100:38]
Joy Reid
Thank you very much. So tell me, what is the status? This was in 2022 that you gave that wonderful speech at that committee hearing. What is the status of the attempts to organize workers at Starbucks?
- [100:49]
Michelle Eisen
Well, since that I can't believe that was 2022. So that's like over three years ago. So we're four years in. We have organized just over 12,000 Starbucks baristas in 45 states and the District of Columbia. We are at, I think there's over 550 union stores that are still open now. The company, you know, just closed a whole bunch of stores. Some of those were union stores. But the organizing has only gotten bigger and increased since that date in 2022. Unfortunately, though, we're still without a contract four years in. And that is a direct result of the greed of corporations like Starbucks and the amount of power that they have on their side and the amount of money and resources they have on their side. Fortunately though, it has not, it has not stopped workers from standing up and demanding better from this company.
- [101:42]
Joy Reid
I just looked it up. Starbucks CEO back in January was offered a $96 million pay package after just four months on the job. Brian Nicol. That's a staggering amount of money to pay while you're closing stores and fighting unionization. Talk about what it's like for the average Starbucks barista, let's say in New York, which is a very expensive place to live. How much are folks getting paid? What kind of benefits are they receiving?
- [102:11]
Michelle Eisen
Well, the bulk of Starbucks workers, we know make on average a little over $15 an hour. You know, that rate that varies from, from state to state and city to city, but we know the majority of workers, the starting rate is about $15.25 an hour. And in order to maintain benefits, you know, the company really touts itself as being this standard, right? It is. They call themselves the best job in retail. They are currently only the best job in retail for Brian Niccol because there are Starbucks workers who depend on SNAP benefits, depend on Medicaid. They're being, the government is subsidizing Starbucks workers. This is a multi billion dollar corporation. A CEO, like you said, made $96 million. And for the first four months of his employment that was from September to December of 2024, he was paid $96 million. He Currently they have a private jet on hand. When he has to go into the office in Seattle. They're paying a pilot for $400,000 to, for his commute to work. You know, these Starbucks workers are putting their own gas in their tank. You know, like it's, it's insane that this is, you know, that they can continue to pat themselves on the back. When you've got workers who. A lot of workers came to Starbucks because of their reputation. I was one of them. You know, I came to Starbucks in 2010 because I needed benefits. You know, I was in the arts, I needed access to healthcare. And they were like, hey, you can come work for us. 20 hours a week, you have access to benefits. And at that point they, they held true to their word. Now they standardly keep workers at 19 hours a week because they, they then don't have even access to the benefits that the company offers because they have control over how many hours workers are given. And that is what has led us to where we are today, where workers are like, whoa, like something's gotta give. You can't keep demanding, demanding, demanding, bragging about the billions of dollars in profit that you're raking in every year, which is due to the labor of the workers in these shops every day. And we are the ones who are not being taken care of, we are not being invested in. You know, they had, they held a manager's conference in Vegas this past June. I don't know if you heard about that. It was like a four day managers conference flew in. All these managers and district managers from across the country cost them $81 million to hold this conference. For what they've spent on the conference, for what they paid him for the first four months, they could have settled a multi year labor contract with its union workers that would have brought, you know, labor peace and really put them back up there at that standard. Right? So here we are. And because of their failure to hold up their end of the bargain, they made some promises in 2024. They said, we are going to finalize this contract with our union employees by the end of the calendar year. And they did not hold up that end of the bargain. And so workers just launched a strike authorization vote about two weeks ago. And we got the results of that I think two days ago. And workers, a super majority, 92% of unionized workers voted to authorize a strike starting next Thursday, which is November 13th, Red Cup Day. If the company doesn't get their act together, come back with some new proposals that actually solve the rest of the demands in our contract and resolve the numerous unfair labor practice charges that are still pending. Starbucks is the number one violator of US labor law in modern history. More than Amazon, more than Amazon. They've been found liable 4, 400 over 400 times so far. There are still over 700 charges that are still pending. And just in 2025 alone, January of 2025 alone, the union filed an additional 125 charges against the, the company for basically bargaining in bad faith, not bargaining in good faith retaliation against union workers, including illegal firings, alleged illegal firings, and unfair discipline. This is not a company that's doing right by its workers. They are continuing to make the wrong choice over and over and over again and it's just not right. And workers are done waiting around the.
- [106:30]
Joy Reid
Thing that's so infuriating as you mentioned, somebody that's working full time or even 20 hours a week and having to also collect, you know SNAP and then they get called lazy and people like, you know, Tommy Tuberville accused people of being essentially feeding off the government and not working. When most people who receive SNAP or adults are working, they just don't make enough money or don't get enough benefits. I will note for our audience Walmart's top execs, they earned a combined $99.95 million last year up 3.3%. Has Starbucks started to. As you said, they're still not. You do not have a contract. Are you all in conversation? Are they talking to the union?
- [107:11]
Michelle Eisen
So we have not been in bargaining since December of 2024. We, we had nine solid months of some pretty strong bargaining through to December of last year. We TA'd which is a tentative agreement. When you're in contract negotiations you kind of look at each proposal articles separately and then kind of put them in a pile when you've sort of come to an agreement they don't go into effect until you ratify the entire thing. But we made some very good progress over 30 T8 articles on some really important issues, non economic issues. But when we got to the economic side and that includes things like take home pay, better hours for staffing, these are some outstanding issues. We presented the company from with our side from with a. A menu of different options, possible solutions to getting more take home pay in barista's pockets to remedying the ridiculous understaffing in our stores which is a result of workers not being given enough hours quite frankly and to solving the outstanding legal issues that are still hanging over their head. And they responded with nothing. And I'm not, I'm not exaggerating, they, they responded with zero economic gain for the first year of the contract and then something like one some, some ridiculous 2% something for the subsequent years which was just not, it's just not, not really an option when you're dealing with a multi billion dollar corporation. They gave the executives in this in the C suite six million dollar bonuses last year. There's no reason that workers should be scraping every single week working for this company trying to, to pay their bills. It's just it, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't compute. Especially when Brian Nickel himself has touted how important baristas are to the turnaround of this company. We know the company is not in great shape. His back to Starbucks plan is not working. Customers are waiting far too long for their beverages. You know, it's just the, the stores are kind of a mess. And he's acknowledged that baristas are key to this turnaround. And, but we haven't seen them actually take any steps to invest in the people who bring in this profit every day, who are the face of the company. Right. And so we are, if we have to go on strike, we are prepared to do that. It will be the largest strike in company history. We have thousands of allies who have pledged to not buy Starbucks if workers have to go on strike. And that's what we're asking from the public. I mean, this is a stand. We're in a pretty dark place in this country right now. I think everybody can acknowledge that.
- [109:44]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
Right.
- [109:44]
Michelle Eisen
It is like it is an, there is an oligarchy. It is the 1% versus the rest of us. And I'm sorry, but most of us are the rest of us. That's just, that's just what it is. So if workers are demanding better from a company that can certainly afford to do better, we need everyone to stand behind them. And it really is as simple as just, hey, don't, don't cross a picket line. Don't, don't go make a Starbucks purchase. Don't get the teacher a Starbucks gift card. You know, go local, do anything else until workers are able to finalize this contract. Because we, we deserve it, quite frankly. You know, we work really, really hard. I was a Starbucks barista for 15 years. It wasn't because I didn't love what I did. I loved my community, I loved my store. But I was very much let down by this company, as were thousands of of Starbucks baristas and continue to be. And it's unnecessary. You know, nobody wants this company to succeed more than we do. That's why we're still here fighting so hard. We want to be a part of the solution. We just need the company to hold up their end of the bargain.
- [110:51]
Joy Reid
Michelle Eisen, thank you so much for being here. I will also note that Starbucks is on the BDS list, which also didn't help, right, because they are one of the companies that was targeted on the BDS list. But in addition to that, the table tariffs, most coffee is imported. It's sort of being hit by like a triple whammy and then not taking care of their employees. It's like it's all bad and it's all bad at the same time.
- [111:10]
Michelle Eisen
And if this isn't such an easy for a company that has, that's struggling in a lot of areas, this is a really easy problem to solve. You know, you invest in your workers, it's going to pay off dividends. So you can go to no contract no coffee.org you can get some more information about the campaign. You can sign our pledge to not cross the picket line, to not shop at Starbucks if workers have to strike. And we will, we will do this. And it's because, because of the amount of power workers have right now. Please, nobody should underestimate the, the what collective power can do. But it's going to take all of us. So we're asking for your support.
- [111:47]
Joy Reid
Let me just get this right. Is it no coffee, no contract dot com. No contract, no coffee, no contract, no coffee dot com. All right. No contract, no coffee. Listen, in that menopause moment, you got to write things, girlfriend. No coffee dot org. All right, I'm writing it down. I'm gonna make sure that we put it, put that link in the description of the show so that people can find it. Also put it on the sub stack. Michelle Eisen, thank you so much. And best of luck to you guys. Feel free to come back and give us an update.
- [112:19]
Michelle Eisen
Oh, I'd love to. Thank you.
- [112:20]
Joy Reid
Thank you so much, y'.
- [112:22]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
All.
- [112:22]
Joy Reid
This is it. We. It's the oligarchy versus the rest of us. It is the billionaire CL class that has decided they own the country. They run the country and they want to run these businesses and essentially reduce the workers to serfs. This is the idea of serfdom, this sort of techno feudalism. They do believe there should be an oligarchic class and there should be a serf class. There are more of them. I just showed you a few of them tonight. But there are a bunch of these guys. They think of themselves as intellectuals, usually really not. But they think that they should run the country the way that it was in the beginning when you had an oligarchic top, no middle class and slaves at the bottom. And they will be very happy to go back to that if they could. I think now we need a moment of joy, right? Chat. Do we need a moment of joy? I think we should. I think we need it. We're getting some hearts for the moment of joy. Our moment of joy tonight starts with a threat and ends with glorious victory. Ladies and gentlemen, the former drunky lady from Fox, who for some reason is now our State Attorney in D.C. president Trump has vowed to make D.C. safe and beautiful again. And as part of his effort to fight crime, he's bringing in our federal law enforcement partners like FBI, atf, dea, park police, everybody, to help the Metropolitan PD fight crime. And the president's message to the criminals was, if you spit, we hit. Well, we didn't quite do that the other night when an individual went up to one of the federal law enforcement enforcement officers and started jumping up and down, screaming at him, berating him, yelling at him.
- [113:56]
Dr. Heidi Anderson
And then he took a Subway sandwich.
- [113:58]
Joy Reid
About this big and took it and threw it at the officer. He thought it was funny. Well, he doesn't think it's funny today.
- [114:05]
Narmeen Chowdhury
Because we charged him with a felony.
- [114:07]
Joy Reid
Assault on a police officer. And we're gonna back the police to the hilt. So there stick your Subway sandwich, which somewhere else I laughing.
- [114:19]
Curtis Yarvin
But that's the truth, though. We really talking real.
- [114:23]
Joy Reid
Y' all need to do some background.
- [114:24]
Curtis Yarvin
Studying about the federal.
- [114:26]
Joy Reid
It's. It's the way he got love from all the other people in D.C. he got love for the people in D.C. well, I'm sorry, Pharaoh, you may have wanted to see the Savage guy go down, but the Savage guy, he was quickly acquitted. He was quickly acquitted by a jury of his peers. The ops. The. The outcome was suboptimal for the government. Sean Dunn, a former Justice Department paralegal, faced a single misdemeanor count after a federal grand jury rejected more serious charges over the encounter, which took place over the nightlife of a U Street bar. And he was quickly acquitted of these charges. He did not get convicted. Border Patrol officer Greg Larimore, who's the one who got the hit with the sandwich, received two gag gifts related to the incident, a plush sandwich and a patch featuring a cartoon of Dunn throwing the sandwich with the words felo 20 foot long, which the defense team successfully argued showed that this was not a serious event in this guy's life. Laramore had testified that the sandwich exploded all over his chest and claimed he could smell mustard and onions. But a photo showed that the sandwich was still in its wrapper or on the ground after it hit Laramore in his bulletproof vest. So the people. The people said, look, sandwich man is a hero. Sandwich man stood up for the people, and sandwich man apparently packed quite a decent and tasty sandwich, which survived the fall and remained untrammeled on the ground of D.C. my question is, did he go back and get the sandwich? Felony footlong. But no. No, he was. He was prepared for success. He won his case and it was a suboptimal. I have to say that again, A suboptimal result for the government. And box wine loses. Thank you for watching the Joy Reid show. Be sure to stay sober out there and don't start a life of crime. I can't think of any more sandwich puns. Can anybody think of a sandwich pun? Any sandwich puns back there? Jay Zhira, More sandwich puns. Give us sandwich puns. But by the way, I. I really would love to interview this guy. If he is available for an interview, please call me. Reach out to us because we would love to have this guy on. Sean Dunn, you are a hero, sandwich man, as we call you. I think you should get a cape, you should get an entire outfit and you should just call yourself sandwich man. Oh, wait. I relish this outcome. Says having the time of my life 2000. I relish this outcome. And let us get rid of Piro during notification. Oh, look, the chat is coming through. The chat is coming through. Having the time of My Life 2008 relishes this outcome. I think that is. He was in a pickle. He was in a kind of a pickle. He was in a bit of a pickle for a moment. Yes, he was in kind of a pickle. But he survived his brush with the law. The. The foot long arm of the law. The foot long arm of the law. You see what I did there? The foot long arm of the law. He didn't want to go out like a turkey. It was a. It was a sober sandwich sentencing. We got sober sandwich sentencing from American of color. Thank you very much. For sober sandwich sentencing. We like that as well for American of color. P4. Yeah, give us more puns. We got two minutes, guys. Two more minutes of puns. Come on, chat. But yes, he was in a pickle, but he survived the game. I want to know. Have a sandwich. I really would like to interview the sandwich. The next person should. Somebody said the next person should throw jersey mics. The next person should throw him. Throw some jersey. About to take that blah dirty mics. Janine Perol would not appreciate that jersey. Mike's looks like a triple felony. That's. He's. Oh, somebody said he's a giro. He's a gyro instead of a giro. G Y R O. Brilliant. Oh, my God. The chat is so brilliant. Thank you all for watching. Please be sure to smash that like the subscribe hit like and subscribe hit share to get more people down with the TJR at Team tjr. As team. Appreciate y' all and we will have you guys have a great weekend. Travel safely, eat well, take care of those in need, send some love to the immigrants and to the poor. Prayers up for all of those in our country who are in need. We love y'.
- [119:03]
Michelle Eisen
All.
- [119:04]
Joy Reid
And that's it. Thank you for watching the Joy Beach. I'll see you on the next one. Have a great weekend. Bye. Bye. Here comes the music. Okay. Yeah.